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[12:03] <wasabi_> And the other produces libs but no server.
[12:04] <ogra> doko, PING !
[12:04] <ogra> doko, where are you ? i'm in the cellar at the ppol table 
[12:04] <ogra> *pool
[12:04] <ajmitch> hi ogra :)
[12:04] <ogra> hey
[12:04] <ajmitch> in montreal already?
[12:04] <ogra> yup
[12:04] <ogra> since 10 min in the hostel
[12:05] <tseng> you and your hostels
[12:05] <tseng> silly germans
[12:05] <ajmitch> heh
[12:05] <ajmitch> and on irc already
[12:05] <ajmitch> you can't give it up :)
[12:05] <ogra> gah... only 12h offline and lready 400 mails waiting :/
[12:06] <tseng> i was on irc within 5 minutes of being shown my room at UDU
[12:06] <ogra> but at least i have some bandwith here :)
[12:06] <tseng> it took that long to find an AP in range
[12:06] <ogra> heh
[12:06] <Kamion> sladen: yo, if you haven't done so already in your version, could you fix e2fs-zero.py's usage message? it claims that --write is the default even though it isn't
[12:06] <tseng> and to ask where dholbach was
[12:06] <tseng> another 5 minutes later he found me
[12:07] <Kamion> sladen: our use of it for amd64 throughout the breezy dev cycle was a complete no-op because we believed the usage message and didn't realise it was running in dry-run mode throughout :-0
[12:07] <Kamion> :-)
[12:07] <ogra> i have no working power adapter yet :/
[12:07] <ogra> so i'll have to go off again to save battery
[12:09] <cevizoglu> hostels aren't just german  :P
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[12:18] <sivang> ogra: you have a broken adaptore?
[12:18] <tseng> sivang: no, he is in north america with a german power cable
[12:18] <ogra> nope, i have no adapter for american power...
[12:19] <ogra> (i have a australian and a english one here :) )
[12:19] <sivang> :)
=== ajmitch needs to get one as soon as he arrives
[12:20] <sivang> ogra: btw, what are you subscribed to? 400emails??! :)
[12:20] <sivang> ogra: how the flight?
[12:20] <ogra> doko, i'm in room 201 i have to save battery power... if you want to go out eating, i'd be happy to invite you... ;)
[12:20] <ogra> bye all
[12:21] <ajmitch> sivang: 400 is quite small, isn't it? :)
[12:23] <sivang> ajmitch: if you're subscribed to a couple upstream mailing lists, I guess no :)
[12:23] <sivang> ajmitch: s/no/yes/
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[12:52] <hmrocha> hello
[12:52] <hmrocha> everytime a program i'm doing segfaults, never core dumps
[12:52] <hmrocha> why?
[12:54] <hmrocha> coding without core dumps, makes debugging much harder
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[12:56] <jdub> hmrocha: ulimit -c -> the output will be 0
[12:56] <hmrocha> yup, it's 0
[12:56] <jdub> thats why :)
[12:57] <hmrocha> how can i enable core dumps?
[12:57] <jdub> ulimit -c unlimited
[12:57] <jdub> and run stuff from that shell
[12:57] <hmrocha> ok, thanks :)
[12:57] <hmrocha> i'll try
[12:57] <hmrocha> it worked :)
[12:58] <hmrocha> thanks
[01:01] <hmrocha> btw, eclipse in 5.10 is all fucked up!
[01:01] <hmrocha> i installed it in the desktops of two of my teachers
[01:01] <hmrocha> they can't checkout cvs projects
[01:02] <carstenh> use the binary from upstream instead?
[01:02] <hmrocha> i told them that ubuntu would solve all their linux problems (it didn't)
[01:02] <hmrocha> i told him to do that, but he told me it didn't work either
[01:03] <hmrocha> i thought it could be because eclipse is compiled with gcj
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[01:04] <jdub> hmrocha: that's a pretty dangerous statement to make, whatever you're talking about
[01:04] <hmrocha> jdub, what statement? the eclipse one? or the ubuntu solving problems?
[01:05] <jdub> "solve all their ... problems"
[01:05] <hmrocha> jdub, i installed ubuntu in 200 computers at my college, it solved all students problems :)
[01:06] <hmrocha> i'm still waiting for the breezy cd's
[01:06] <hmrocha> well, not all, but most of them
[01:06] <hmrocha> most of them (including me) don't like the emacs interface
[01:07] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, what does emacs have to do with ubuntu?
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[01:07] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, ubuntu has emacs in the repositories, but it's not compiled with svn support
[01:08] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, and the buttons are not the new buttons
[01:08] <cevizoglu> ubuntu solved more of my problems than OS X, Windows, any all other distros..
[01:08] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, for me too, ubuntu rocks
[01:09] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, you mean they don't like the emacs interface in hoary?
[01:09] <hmrocha> emacs in ubuntu should have gtk2 support imho
[01:09] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, yes
[01:09] <cevizoglu> but my problems revolve around command-line addiction and laziness :)
[01:11] <hmrocha> new computer science students don't understand cli, they only know what winxp is
[01:11] <hmrocha> i'm preparing an ubuntu presentation for the new students
[01:11] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, you can't use winxp as compsci without command-line either
[01:11] <cevizoglu> all the windows-ites around me use it, if only for ipconfig and ping
[01:11] <hmrocha> so they can know what programs are available and similarities between winxp
[01:12] <hmrocha> yes, but that's two commands
[01:12] <hmrocha> you don't use cli in winxp as a regular basis
[01:13] <hmrocha> in ubuntu (linux in general), you must use it
=== carstenh does not think linux users must use cli or win xp users can't live without cli for things like ping
[01:14] <carstenh> nor do i think that new cs students know only win xp
[01:14] <hmrocha> if i want to copy a file from my home folder to /usr/local/bin, how can i do it without cli?
[01:15] <carstenh> most here use either gentoo or xp
[01:15] <carstenh> nautilus?
[01:15] <hmrocha> nautilus should prompt for a password because i don't have permissions to write to that folder
[01:15] <hmrocha> but instead, it just says that i don't have permission
[01:15] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, gksudo it
[01:16] <jdub> ugh, don't do that
[01:16] <jdub> hmrocha: that's basically a good ting
[01:16] <hmrocha> that is not good
[01:16] <hmrocha> jdub, not being able to copy a file to /usr/local ?
[01:17] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, what isn't good?  gksudo?  I wouldn't know, I don't use the GUI  :)
[01:17] <jdub> hmrocha: yep - describe the use cases for a normal user
[01:17] <jdub> cevizoglu: running nautilus as root is a terrible idea
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[01:18] <cevizoglu> jdub, ic
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[01:18] <hmrocha> jdub, a user has a script that he want to copy to /usr/local/bin
[01:19] <hmrocha> he opens /usr/local/bin in nautilus and drags the script to the folder
[01:19] <jdub> hmrocha: no, tell me *why*. what is the use case? :)
[01:19] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, the user makes a bin folder in his home directory.  he then adds it to his **own** search paths
[01:20] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, the user is "lame" and he doesn't know how to change the search paths
[01:20] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, you can't use cli remember?
[01:20] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, then how will he survive running scripts without killing everything on the system?
[01:21] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, I can't use cli?
[01:21] <jdub> hmrocha: when putting something in bin directories, you're already assuming command line use to a massive extent anyway (very few GUI programs will usefully install that way)
[01:21] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, in this use case, you can't
[01:21] <jdub> hmrocha: so you need to outline the use case - i don't believe there is one for a regular user
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[01:22] <hmrocha> a regular user wants to install a program but he doesn't know that repositories exist (because they don't in winxp)
[01:22] <hmrocha> he goes to the program's website and downloads the .tar.gz
[01:22] <hmrocha> right click->extract here
[01:22] <jdub> at this point, the user is already lost, btw :)
[01:22] <hmrocha> he doesn't know what to do next
[01:23] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, then he's unable to build it...
[01:23] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, yes
[01:23] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, and if he does, his system is gone because he didn't use checkinstall
[01:23] <cevizoglu> right?
[01:23] <hmrocha> i don't know what checkinstall is
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[01:24] <hmrocha> he should be able to click the configure script, gnome should know that it's a configure script
[01:24] <hmrocha> and open a "terminal window" like it does when you use synaptic and you want to know what's going on
[01:24] <jdub> hmrocha: no dude, that's way, way too complex - it's just not going to work
[01:25] <hmrocha> jdub, ok, you win :D
[01:25] <jdub> as soon as you start talking about regular users building software, you're in the realms of fantasy - sorry :)
[01:25] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, that's why there are .deb files in the first place
[01:25] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, true
[01:25] <hmrocha> cevizoglu, how can i install a .deb in ubuntu without cli?
[01:25] <cevizoglu> hmrocha, because checkinstall turns the final installed product into a .deb file
[01:26] <jdub> hmrocha: you can't atm, there is a discussion about this on ubuntu0devel atm. whether it makes sense or not is yet to be decided.
[01:26] <jdub> we're going to make it much easier to use repositories and find packages that way
[01:26] <jdub> and make it much easier for third parties to provide useful repositories
[01:27] <hmrocha> in my opinion, you should be able to download a .deb, click it and you should be able to install it with a gui
[01:27] <jdub> perhaps, but that might not be the best way of doing it, or the best user experience
[01:27] <hmrocha> i mean, it should resolve the dependencies automatically by downloading available packages from the reps
[01:27] <jdub> that ends up being like windows, where you download completely random software
[01:27] <hmrocha> and install the wanted .deb
[01:27] <jdub> not secure, etc.
[01:28] <jdub> see the ubuntu-devel list for a lengthy discussion about this
[01:28] <hmrocha> ok
[01:28] <jdub> we'll be covering this at UBZ
[01:28] <hmrocha> btw, there should be a gui for setting up dual monitors
[01:29] <magnon> there should be a gui to learn people to do all the junk tasks in the term :-)
[01:29] <magnon> until someone makes a gui to do them
[01:29] <cevizoglu> :D
[01:29] <hmrocha> fedora already has a gui for that
[01:30] <hmrocha> it's open source, you could adapt the code i think
[01:31] <hmrocha> well, i have to code some stuff, bye
[01:31] <hmrocha> jdub, thanks for the help with the core dumps
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[01:33] <mpt> hmrocha, I thought that was reported already, but the only reference seems to be http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48498#c7
[01:34] <mpt> hmrocha: and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyApt is one of the (many, iirc) braindumps about installing stuff that isn't in our repositories
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[01:37] <hmrocha> mpt, thanks for the links :)
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[02:24] <TMM> whoever pointed me to python-vte, thanks a lot, it was exactly what I needed, it turned out :)
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[03:07] <adamh> I'm using Eclipse and I can't seem to find any option to create a new JUnit test case. Does Ubuntu's version of Eclipse disable JUnit?
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[04:40] <mpool> hi
[04:40] <mpool> what's the policy on moving bugfixes into breezy-updates?
[04:40] <mpool> is there a particular severity of bug necessary to justify an update?
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[04:43] <Burgundavia> mpool, crashers and data-loss
[04:43] <ajmitch> mpool: generally critical/data-loss
[04:43] <ajmitch> which mdz will look at & approve
[04:44] <daniels> mpool: if you wouldn't feel bad about everyone using breezy downloading that package
[04:44] <daniels> that's the metric I go by (which means xorg updates are unfortunately very difficult to rationalise)
[04:45] <mpool> ok
[04:45] <mpool> this seems stricter than debian's policy?
[04:45] <mpool> maybe not
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[04:45] <ajmitch> debian's policy is still reasonably strict, I think
[04:45] <mpool> so each release is pretty stable once it goes out, even if you turn on updates
[04:45] <mpool> ok
[04:45] <ajmitch> was there a bug in breezy's bzr?
[04:46] <mpool> no, it's in pilot-link
[04:46] <mpool> debian #325275
[04:46] <mpool> it's a bit obscure and can be fixed by patching a shell script by hand
[04:46] <mpool> afaik breezy's bzr is ok
[04:47] <mpool> though i suspect before dapper is out people will be wanting to install something more recent
[04:47] <ajmitch> right, so it's a universe package that's affected
[04:47] <ajmitch> we can pass it by mdz for comment, I guess
[04:48] <mpool> i was just curious
[04:48] <mpool> i don't want to make a special argument for it
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[05:48] <irvin> anyone here?
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[05:52] <N6REJ> would anyone care to have a non-flame discussion with me about a good way to use ubuntu as a server in my particular situation?
[05:52] <wasabi> sure, in #ubuntu
[05:52] <HrdwrBoB> N6REJ: that's not an ubuntu development issue
[05:52] <irvin> would a discussion on developing a web-based front end for apt fit here?
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[05:53] <N6REJ> HrdwrBoB: what is your particular malfunction... yesterday you gave me a hard time when I had a perfectly reasonable question..... tonight I come here to AVOID your obnoxiousness and yet you perserve!!! you have a personal problem withme or you just generally hate giving meaningfull help?
[05:54] <N6REJ> Ubuntu- OUT of the box, has some SEROUS server issuses!
[05:54] <HrdwrBoB> N6REJ: I'm more than happy to help you
[05:54] <N6REJ> serious even/
[05:54] <N6REJ> oh, so you've changed your powersupply  since last night?
[05:54] <ajmitch> N6REJ: sorry, but that's hardly the type of tone to take 
[05:55] <N6REJ> ajmitch: I'm sorry, I've been treated VERY well by most and very badly by a few....I'm a bit gunshy tonight
[05:55] <irvin> i'm trying to cook up a web-based front end for apt which would be very usefull for nonbroadband users like me
[05:55] <N6REJ> I'll take it to offtopic
[05:56] <irvin> if someone could explain how apt-get works i'd really appreciate it...
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[05:57] <irvin> if i were to replicate apt-get update for example using only my browser... so far here's what i can understand
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[05:59] <irvin> opening ph.archive.ubutu.com/ubuntu/dists/main i can see the repositories
[05:59] <irvin> the file Contents-i386.gz contains all the package info and their checksums (md5/sha1)
[06:00] <irvin> is someone listening?
[06:00] <irvin> :-(
[06:03] <irvin> if i can generate the same file like contents-i386.gz on my home computer and compare it with the one from the ubuntu server i'd find the files that would need updating...
[06:04] <minghua> irvin: you probably want to read APT howto first
[06:04] <minghua> here is a link for you http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/index.en.html
[06:04] <minghua> irvin: and manpages of apt programs as well
[06:04] <irvin> minghua: i already did but that only gives me instructions how to use apt
[06:04] <minghua> irvin: and this question is better for #ubuntu
[06:05] <minghua> as it has nothing to do with development
[06:06] <irvin> well thanks anyway
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[06:42] <OddAbe19> where can i get a recent list of uploads to dapper?
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[06:51] <jdub> OddAbe19: dapper-changes list
[07:02] <OddAbe19> jdub, where do i grab that
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[07:05] <jdub> OddAbe19: lists.ubuntu.com
[07:06] <OddAbe19> tnx
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[07:48] <sladen> Kamion: D'oh.  D'oh.... D'oh
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=== lamont-away grumbles at sladen
[07:55] <lamont-away> -w not default and all that...
[07:56] <lamont-away> sladen: but I forgive you
[07:59] <sladen> conservatively paranoid
[08:00] <ajmitch> sladen: can you fix up some of the #ubuntu-motu chanserv settings please?
=== lamont-away ->bed
[08:00] <sladen> ajmitch: you have as much power as me to fix them.  Just ask chanserv for ops...
[08:01] <ajmitch> you're listed as channel owner, I don't want to leave it where anyone can grab ops
[08:02] <sladen> ajmitch: I don't /think/ I should be any more priviliged than $anyone.  If that is the case, it wasn't intended.
[08:02] <ajmitch> Contact: sladen 
[08:02] <ajmitch> :)
[08:02] <ajmitch> you must have registered back in the past
[08:03] <sladen> ajmitch: I suspect by me setting the ACL it named me
[08:03] <sladen> ...initially setting the ACL...
[08:03] <ajmitch> lovely
[08:04] <ajmitch> it might be good to set it to one of ogra or dholbach
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[08:16] <kagou> hi
[08:17] <kagou> is there an option to activate the dma on a dvd-writer, when i boot on the breezy install cd ?
[08:18] <bob2> edit /etc/hdparm.conf
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[08:19] <kagou> no bob2 , " when i boot on the breezy install cd" for an installation
[08:19] <bob2> yes, I know what you said
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[08:26] <dholbach> hello
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[08:41] <kagou> bob2, i found that there is already a bug #16901
[08:41] <kagou> regards ++
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[08:47] <yi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/muine/+bug/3571
[08:47] <yi> anyone care to take a look and see if they can reproduce it?
[08:48] <mdke> morning
[08:52] <sivang> good morning
[08:52] <Treenaks> hey mr sivan
[08:53] <infinity> Grr, I can't update the status on specs assigned to me.  What a pain.
[08:53] <sivang> Treenaks: ho ho :)
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[09:27] <zyga> morning
[09:27] <\sh> moins
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[09:39] <sivang> hey \sh , how are you? cheered?
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[09:44] <\sh> sivang: headache from yesterday...the work on the channel line up took my last power it seems...
[09:45] <\sh> sivang: but today I have to do some last preparations for UBZ...and uploading some already waiting packages to dapper...
[09:46] <ajmitch> hi \sh 
[09:46] <\sh> moins ajmitch 
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[10:06] <jdub> hrm
[10:06] <jdub> flash broken on dapper
[10:06] <jdub> *cough*
[10:06] <jdub> ;-)
[10:06] <mdke> lol
[10:06] <Treenaks> jdub: badger badger badger badger
[10:06] <jdub> Treenaks: exactly :)
[10:06] <jdub> Treenaks: realised i should put the file on my disk so i can always play it :)
[10:06] <Treenaks> jdub: even if your xattrs break? :)
=== jdub installs swf-player to see if it works
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[10:07] <jdub> Treenaks: heh, turned those off *real* fast :)
[10:07] <jdub> Treenaks: got some outtakes? :)
[10:07] <ajmitch> hi jdub 
[10:07] <Treenaks> jdub: on my laptop/external USB disk
[10:07] <jdub> morning ajmitch lovers
[10:07] <Treenaks> jdub: but for some reason it's not running sshd :(
[10:07] <jdub> d'oh
[10:07] <jdub> fascist!
[10:08] <Treenaks> jdub: I have a few cool ones :)
[10:08] <ajmitch> jdub: got great plans for Love Day?
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[10:09] <jdub> ajmitch: yeah, seen the wiki page? schedule is rad
[10:09] <ajmitch> yep, seen the wiki
[10:10] <ajmitch> I bet there'll be a few potential MOTUs to show off our wares to
[10:10] <jdub> wow, swf-player is pretty pants
[10:10] <ivoks> hi
[10:10] <ajmitch> hey ivoks 
[10:10] <ivoks> our portal is doing nice, yay!
[10:11] <ajmitch> the croatian team?
[10:11] <ivoks> yeah..
[10:11] <ajmitch> great :)
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[10:12] <ajmitch> dholbach: I went ahead & added a new spec about MOTUs..
[10:12] <spayne> mornin' all
[10:12] <dholbach> ajmitch: cool, thank you
[10:12] <dholbach> hi spayne 
[10:12] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseAndDebian if you want to fill in something :)
=== ajmitch barely started it :)
[10:13] <Lathiat> wow ajmitch 
[10:13] <ajmitch> wiki is so slow to save things..
[10:13] <Lathiat> tahts some quality spec work
[10:13] <Lathiat> im impressed
[10:14] <ajmitch> Lathiat: thanks!
[10:14] <ajmitch> hello spayne 
[10:14] <Lathiat> can you teach me?
[10:14] <ajmitch> Lathiat: sure
[10:14] <ivoks> :)
[10:14] <ajmitch> Lathiat: it's called, take the results of an irc conversation & think of a new spec to vomit up
[10:15] <ajmitch> 2 minutes later, something urgent comes up at work :)
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=== Lathiat laughs
[10:15] <ajmitch> Lathiat: feel free to add something to it
[10:16] <ajmitch> I imagine there could be a little debate about it at UBZ ;)
[10:16] <Lathiat> launchpad needs a list of "interested" people for specs
[10:17] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: it's called "subscription"
[10:17] <Lathiat> oh
[10:17] <Lathiat> you can
[10:17] <Lathiat> im sure that wasnt there before
[10:17] <Lathiat> im probabluy just blind
[10:18] <Mithrandir> it was there a few days ago, at least.
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[10:22] <sivang> Mithrandir: not sure about the emailing interface for the spec tracker, I didn't get even a single mail from it about changes so far :)
[10:22] <Lathiat> ugh
[10:23] <Mithrandir> sivang: me neither
[10:23] <Lathiat> who proposed to ship /home as Desktop in nautilus
[10:23] <Treenaks> Lathiat: check the changelog :)
[10:23] <sivang> Lathiat: if it has my name on it, that doesn't mean I suggested that, but rather inputted it into launchpad :)
=== mdke shivers
[10:23] <Lathiat> and to fix the problem of not cluttering the desktop, the author suggests not having a nautilus on the root window
=== Lathiat shoots them
[10:24] <mdke> i saw an email from sabdfl saying that he was totally against it
[10:24] <Lathiat> yeh
[10:24] <Lathiat> he put that in the wiki page too
[10:24] <Lathiat> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeAsDesktop
[10:24] <mdke> ah ok not an email :)
[10:24] <sivang> mdke: where?
[10:25] <mdke> on that wikipage
[10:25] <jdub> Lathiat: oh jebus
[10:25] <jdub> that's like, NO FUCKING WAY
[10:25] <mdke> heh
[10:25] <Treenaks> jdub: then we need a way to translate the Desktop directory name
[10:26] <Treenaks> (and the other "special" folders)
=== jdub does not want to defend sanity from the sabdfl side as well as the random crackpot side
[10:26] <Lathiat> Treenaks: theres been many long discussions about this
[10:26] <jdub> Treenaks: yeah, i have a half-written proposal for how to do that
[10:26] <jdub> very much an upstream oissue though
[10:26] <Treenaks> Lathiat: I don't like $HOME=Desktop either, but it _is_ a solution to that problem :)
[10:26] <jdub> particularly in dapper period
[10:26] <Lathiat> Treenaks: its a solution to Desktop
[10:26] <Lathiat> it doesnt dosolve Documents ;)
[10:26] <Treenaks> Lathiat: true, true
[10:27] <jdub> Lathiat: the same solution can be used to handle other directories
[10:27] <Lathiat> jdub: what, forget about folders and stick everythign in $HOME? :)
[10:28] <jdub> no, special directory handling, ala windows
[10:28] <fabbione> morning fella
[10:28] <fabbione> s
[10:28] <Lathiat> windows has my documents?
[10:28] <Lathiat> and in XP has like
[10:28] <Lathiat> my music
[10:28] <Lathiat> and heaps of other crack
[10:28] <Lathiat> my ebooks
[10:28] <jdub> Lathiat: but they're moveable
[10:28] <fabbione> jdub: put your butt on the plane and come here dude
[10:28] <Treenaks> Lathiat: yes, and the location of those is specified in the registry
[10:28] <jdub> fabbione: butt moving in ~1hr
=== Lathiat nods
[10:28] <sivang> fabbione: in montreal ?
[10:29] <jdub> fabbione: butt very sore ;)
[10:29] <sivang> lol
[10:29] <fabbione> sivang: yes
[10:29] <Treenaks> jdub: lost your pants again? :)
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[10:29] <Lathiat> haha
[10:29] <fabbione> jdub: sore? dude.. i told you to avoid gay bars
[10:29] <sivang> fabbione: lolol
=== sivang ROTFL
=== dholbach thought along the same lines as fabbione...
[10:31] <fabbione> dholbach: all the german invasion squad is waiting for you
[10:31] <dholbach> yeah
[10:31] <dholbach> i'll arrive on 29th
[10:31] <sivang> fabbione: germen invasion squad?
=== Aegir pines for the old days of Linux. Everything is too easy. His PDA now syncs, Wine actually works, his iPod is actually usefull, and VMWare installed without pulling hair out
[10:31] <dholbach> sivang: mvo, pitti, doko, ogra
[10:31] <maswan> http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/total.html.en
[10:32] <maswan> we now have the stats updated from the release offload hosts
[10:32] <jdub> maswan: ooh
[10:32] <jdub> maswan: publically linkable?
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[10:32] <Lathiat> 2794866 5.04 isos?
[10:32] <maswan> jdub: sure, but the information is way down in there
[10:33] <maswan> Lathiat: read the ammount of data, the number of downloads is the number of requested (partial) downloads
[10:33] <Lathiat> righto
[10:33] <Mithrandir> hi Simira 
[10:33] <Simira> morning
[10:33] <jdub> maswan: jesus, six million hoary downlodas
[10:34] <maswan> about 66 TB of breezy downloads
[10:34] <jdub> > 3 million breezy downloads already
[10:34] <maswan> jdub: ehm, 180k full downloads of hoary
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[10:35] <maswan> and about 100k breezy downloads, if the isos are average about 0.6G
[10:35] <jdub> mirror/ubuntu-releases/5.0462682716268165
[10:35] <jdub> ber
[10:35] <maswan> jdub: note what I said to Lathiat, the number of downloads is the number of partial downloads.
[10:35] <jdub> oh, other files?
[10:35] <jdub> 'completed transfers' isn't full downloads?
[10:36] <maswan> jdub: no, since apache doesn't have a good way of specifying complete/partial downloads
[10:36] <maswan> jdub: at least, I didn't find a good %c for that
[10:37] <jdub> so 5.04 i386 iso completed transfers is 2794859
[10:37] <jdub> is that figure wrong?
[10:37] <maswan> yes
[10:37] <maswan> look at the total bytes transfered list, and then divide by iso size
[10:37] <jdub> hrm, how do i interpret this correctly? bytes / file size?
[10:37] <jdub> right
[10:38] <jdub> damn, vastly less fun ;)
[10:38] <maswan> also, HEADER.html/MD5SUMS etc also counts like a file download
[10:38] <jdub> yeah
[10:39] <maswan> but 100+k downloads of breezy so far is fun anyway, I tihnk. :)
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[10:39] <Lathiat> jdub: so are you going to pimp zeroconfspec with ajmitch for me? :)
[10:40] <jdub> Lathiat: yep
[10:40] <Lathiat> jdub: sweet. :)
[10:40] <jdub> Lathiat: noticed that /etc/nsswitch.conf already has mdns in it (in dapper)?
=== Lathiat laughs
[10:40] <Lathiat> seb did up an avhai main inclusion report
[10:41] <Lathiat> i should do one for nss-mdns i guess
[10:41] <Lathiat> avahi 0.6 is looking sweet
[10:41] <jdub> Lathiat: of course, we're going to have to do something about your kde problem
[10:41] <Lathiat> unofrtunately it broke the api to all hell, but we're trying to get it all done now rather than later
[10:41] <Lathiat> jdub: heh
=== jdub runs avahi-discover on random networks while he's travelling, often disappointed to see only my own host visible :(
[10:41] <Lathiat> jdub: but sometimes see stuf?
[10:42] <jdub> can't wait until i have a version of gaim that does ichat local foo
[10:42] <Lathiat> :)
[10:42] <jdub> Lathiat: very rarely
[10:42] <Lathiat> jdub: it does
[10:42] <Lathiat> in cvs/2
[10:42] <Lathiat> with howl
[10:42] <jdub> yeah
[10:42] <Lathiat> but uh
[10:42] <Lathiat> avahi 0.6 has libavahi-compat-howl ;)
[10:42] <jdub> but i want one in dapper :)
[10:42] <Lathiat> and libavahi-compat-bonjour
[10:42] <Robot101> take over the wooooorld!
[10:43] <dholbach> YAY! :)
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[10:45] <jdub> "Bags found unattended will be removed and destroyed. Have a nice day!"
[10:47] <Aegir> jdub, Yeah, every bus I catch in the morning has somthing similar all through it
=== mdke grumbles at gnome-blog
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[11:22] <ajmitch> Lathiat: yes, don't worry, avahi will get pimped
[11:29] <mdke> whiprush, broken link on your fridge post, the wiki page is AddingRepositoriesHowto (no capital T in the last word)
[11:32] <ajmitch> mdke: you could setup a wiki redirect :)
[11:32] <mdke> ajmitch, i could, but it is best to try and limit the number of redirects IMO
[11:33] <CaiN_SA> lo ajmitch 
[11:33] <ajmitch> hi
[11:37] <ajmitch> how are you, CaiN_SA ?\
[11:37] <CaiN_SA> im ok
[11:37] <CaiN_SA> just working my ass off
[11:38] <ajmitch> heh
[11:38] <CaiN_SA> cos im flying tonight
[11:38] <ajmitch> ah fun
=== ajmitch is flying in ~12 hours
[11:38] <CaiN_SA> lol
[11:38] <CaiN_SA> bastard
[11:38] <CaiN_SA> im flying 20 hours
[11:38] <CaiN_SA> +
[11:38] <CaiN_SA> 6 hour wait in amsterdam
[11:38] <ajmitch> don't worry, I've got a wait in auckland & a wait in vancouver
[11:38] <ajmitch> so I don't arrive until saturday morning
[11:39] <CaiN_SA> same here
[11:39] <CaiN_SA> canonical paying or you ?
[11:39] <ajmitch> me :(
[11:39] <CaiN_SA> eish
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[11:40] <ajmitch> so I'm visiting some friends in the US afterwards
[11:40] <ajmitch> hello Keybuk 
[11:40] <Keybuk> heyhey
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[12:04] <Kamion> elmo: I've fixed up britney for dapper
[12:05] <fabbione> hey Kamion
[12:06] <Kamion> morning
[12:09] <Keybuk> right, see you guys in Montreal
[12:09] <fabbione> Keybuk: at what time will you arrive?
[12:10] <Keybuk> fabbione: 7.45pm I think at the airport
[12:10] <Keybuk> no idea what to do from there though
[12:10] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok
[12:10] <fabbione> Keybuk: it takes about 1 hours from there i think
[12:10] <Keybuk> am going to jbailey's
[12:10] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok
[12:10] <fabbione> we might meet there than
[12:10] <Keybuk> no idea where it is :p  will worry about that when I get there
[12:10] <Keybuk> <g>
[12:11] <Kamion> hmm, kelly's still breaking on trashapplet in queue/accepted/
[12:12] <Keybuk> jbailey: +44 7855 ... obviously :p
[12:12] <mdke> heh
[12:12] <fabbione> Keybuk: now i am going to tell you the truth :)
[12:12] <mdke> my number is that too
[12:12] <Kamion> slomo_: xmms-musepack is in queue/accepted/ waiting for somebody to fix a crash in the archive maintenance suite that happens on an alphabetically earlier package in queue/accepted/
[12:12] <Kamion> do we want trashapplet in dapper?
[12:12] <fabbione> jbailey: lives 4 train stops from the hotel :O
[12:13] <slomo_> Kamion: ok, thanks :)
[12:13] <Kamion> oh, sod it, we can have it in universe
[12:13] <dholbach> Kamion: it's part of gnome-applets
[12:13] <dholbach> Kamion: so no need for it
[12:13] <Kamion> dholbach: there's a separate trashapplet source in accepted
[12:13] <Kamion> I'm going to let it through for now because unaccepting stuff is hard; we can remove it later
[12:13] <dholbach> then it should be on the blacklist :)
[12:14] <dholbach> ok
[12:14] <dholbach> no problem
[12:14] <Kamion> could you mail elmo about that?
[12:14] <dholbach> yeah
[12:14] <dholbach> i have a bunch of other things on that list too
[12:14] <Kinnison> Kamion: where did you put it?
[12:14] <Kamion> Kinnison: put what?
[12:14] <Kinnison> Kamion: the trashapplet upload which was crashing kelly
[12:15] <Kamion> Kinnison: it's only crashing kelly because it's not in the overrides
[12:15] <Kinnison> oh right
[12:15] <Kinnison> so not helpful for me
[12:15] <Kamion> how it got as far as accepted I'm not sure; I assume elmo did an override sync in between or something
[12:15] <Kamion> Kinnison: it's in queue/launchpad/ though, like everything else
[12:16] <Kinnison> Kamion: right
[12:17] <Kamion> I've unstuck it now I think
[12:17] <infinity> Hrm, what's responsible for making my IBM Fn-F5 hotkey disable both wireless AND bluetooth?
[12:17] <infinity> mjg59 : ^
[12:19] <mdke> infinity, i filed a bug on that once i think
=== mdke looks
[12:20] <mdke> oh no i didn't
[12:20] <mdke> that sucks, i must have forgotten
[12:20] <tepsipakki> something wrong with the mirrors? I cant netboot, it fails on nic-restricted-modules
[12:21] <Treenaks> tepsipakki: maybe your CD is broken?
[12:21] <Treenaks> oh wait
[12:21] <Treenaks> netboot
[12:21] <infinity> mdke : Any idea where this functionality is hiding, so I can just hack it a bit locallt?
[12:21] <infinity> locally, even.
[12:21] <tepsipakki> correction, nic-restricted-firmware
[12:22] <mdke> infinity, acpi-support i guess, i seem to remember mjg59 saying that there was nothing they could do about this, but I'm not sure
[12:22] <infinity> Well, afaik, in Windows (and at the hardware level), Fn-F5 just enables/disable bluetooth, not both.
[12:22] <infinity> It was a bit of a shock to see it toggling both at the same time.
[12:23] <mdke> infinity, in windows for me it toggles them individually, i.e. one->the other->both->neither
[12:24] <infinity> That would also be acceptable.
[12:24] <mdke> yep
[12:28] <mdke> filing bug now
[12:28] <infinity> Also irritating that I now can't disable bluetooth without rebooting. :)
=== infinity wonders how much power it draws while idling
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[12:28] <mdke> try stopping acpi-support, using the button, then starting it?
[12:29] <infinity> Nope, same effect.
[12:30] <infinity> Not hotkey-setup either.  Oh well.
[12:30] <tepsipakki> "GET /ubuntu/pool/universe/h/hw-detect/disk-detect_1.22ubuntu3_all.udeb HTTP/1.1" 404 341
[12:30] <tepsipakki> now why is it trying to get it from there?
[12:30] <mdke> infinity, how about stopping acpi too?
[12:31] <tepsipakki> it wasn't nic-*, but disk-detect that is not found
[12:31] <tepsipakki> I'd thought breezy was stable and quite static ;)
[12:32] <mdke> infinity, bug #18548 filed, you in cc
[12:32] <tepsipakki> hw-detect is in main, not in universe...
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[12:51] <Kamion> tepsipakki: why's it trying to get disk-detect at all, that's the question ...
[12:51] <Kamion> we didn't use disk-detect in breezy (due to a screwup, but nevertheless)
[12:53] <Kamion> tepsipakki: try again in about 20 minutes
[12:54] <Kamion> it had ended up in breezy/main somehow when I promoted it to dapper/main; I've kicked it back to breezy/universe
[12:56] <tepsipakki> ok ;)
[12:56] <Kamion> the root problem is that it's really awkward to have a package be the same version in breezy and dapper and yet be in different components, because then the actual .deb/.udeb file has to be in both pool/main/ and pool/universe/
[12:57] <Kamion> we have a horrible hacky symlink system that sort of sorts this out
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[12:57] <Kamion> but it seems to get a bit confused sometimes
[12:57] <tepsipakki> I remember seeing something similar in May
[12:57] <infinity> It's symlinked, not hardlinked?
[12:57] <Kamion> yeah, May was before we started running the symlinker automatically as part of cron.daily, so people noticed it more often
[12:57] <Kamion> infinity: yes - don't ask me why :)
[12:58] <infinity> Why?
[12:58] <infinity> :)
[12:58] <Kamion> I have no idea. :-)
[12:58] <Kinnison> because we don't use hardlink compliant rsync
[12:58] <Kinnison> so hardlinks would increase the size of the pool
[12:58] <Kamion> I wish we'd sorted out disk-detect earlier, but I only noticed that we were mysteriously still using hw-detect-full after breezy released
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[12:59] <infinity> Kinnison : Err, we don't, or our mirrors may not, and we're being nice to them?
[12:59] <infinity> (The latter seems more plausible)
[01:00] <Kinnison> Uhm, we don't let our mirrors do it
[01:00] <Kinnison> because that would cause our top-tier mirror machines to die under platter-melt
[01:00] <infinity> Oh.  I assume rsync was smart about hardlinks.
[01:00] <infinity> Evidently not.
[01:01] <Kamion> I didn't know it was that much harder to do hardlinks
[01:01] <Kinnison> apparently it is
[01:01] <infinity> I would expect it to be nearly a no-op, but whatever. :)
=== infinity must test this.
[01:01] <Kinnison> it may not be platter melt, it might be ram or cpu, but one resource was certainly in pain
[01:01] <Kinnison> takes aaaages to do
[01:01] <Kamion> anyway, I'll just dodge the problem by merging a new hw-detect from Debian into dapper
=== Kinnison grins
[01:01] <Kamion> then it's a different version and disk-detect can be safely promoted
[01:02] <tepsipakki> kamion: hmm.. my netboot-image is from Oct 5.
[01:02] <Kamion> tepsipakki: doesn't matter, it's talking to the archive for this bit
[01:02] <Kamion> the netboot image is only the core that's needed to start up the installer and get more bits of itself from the archive
[01:03] <tepsipakki> ok
[01:03] <zyga> who maintains IRC logging facilities for ubuntu?
[01:03] <Nafallo> zyga: depends on channel, but fabbione and smurfix
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[01:04] <zyga> fabbione: ping
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[01:21] <koke> I was thinking... any idea for activities on World Usability Day at ubz?
[01:21] <koke> it's November 3rd
[01:23] <mpt> There's a World Usability Day? awesome
[01:24] <mpt> koke, btw, if you want to keep track of the AutomaticUpgrade spec the way to do that know is subscribing to it on Launchpad
[01:24] <mpt> know -> now
[01:26] <mpt> koke: Thanks also for your "What's wrong with Launchpad", I agree entirely and it's useful ammo
[01:26] <koke> mpt: I'm preparing some more stuff for ubz, though I think there are a lot of things to change
[01:28] <koke> like: Case #1: Completing a specific string of a translation
[01:28] <koke> 8 steps to do that and giving up
[01:30] <ajmitch> hey koke 
[01:30] <mpt> koke: yeah, that seems like the top request for Rosetta, searching for a string
[01:31] <koke> mpt: maybe I should have chosen a less obvious case :)
[01:37] <koke> mpt: it's hard to find the subscribe option in spec page
[01:37] <koke> iirc, the rest of subscribe actions have a + icon
[01:40] <pef> Kamion: hello, for a change on a package for breezy-updates, what do you prefer ? a debdiff or a complete upload to revu ?
[01:41] <Kamion> pef: I don't approve breezy-updates uploads; only mdz does that at present
[01:41] <Kamion> I'd expect him to prefer a debdiff
[01:41] <pef> Kamion: and for hoary-updates ?
[01:42] <mpt> koke: ugh, you're right, I'll fix that
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[01:43] <pitti> Good morning
[01:44] <ajmitch> morning pitti
[01:44] <ajmitch> how are you?
[01:44] <pitti> Hi ajmitch; still feeling tired (jetlag), but otherwise fine
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[01:45] <Kamion> pef: likewise
[01:45] <ajmitch> pitti: ah great, you're in montreal now?
[01:45] <pitti> yes
[01:45] <pitti> Hi seb128
[01:46] <seb128> hey Martin
[01:46] <Treenaks> Montreal is geeking up :)
[01:46] <ajmitch> pitti: enjoying it? :)
[01:46] <pitti> ajmitch: I'll shortly enjoy the hotel breakfast, and Seb and I already enjoyed the pool
[01:46] <ajmitch> great :)
[01:47] <ajmitch> pitti: I'll see you there on saturday
[01:48] <zyga> does anyone know if fabionne is traveling?
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[01:48] <dholbach> hey guys :)
[01:48] <zyga> hey dholbach 
=== seb128 hugs dholbach 
[01:50] <dholbach> hey zyga 
[01:50] <dholbach> zyga: i think so
[01:50] <dholbach> it's the HUG DAY! :)
[01:50] <pitti> Hi dholbach 
=== dholbach hugs seb128 :)
[01:50] <pitti> ajmitch: looking forward to it
[01:51] <Treenaks> dholbach: uh.. Love Day is Sunday
[01:51] <sivang> pitti: Hi Martin! How was the flight?
[01:51] <seb128> dholbach, so, how is the GNOME packaging action? :)
[01:51] <pitti> zyga: yes, he is here
[01:51] <pitti> sivang: wonderful, I'll tell you when you are here
[01:51] <sivang> pitti: cool, can't wait to meet again :)
[01:51] <pitti> dholbach: "Lieutenant: status report!" :-)
=== zyga needs a logging bot for #ubuntu-translators
[01:52] <zyga> could someone help me with that?
[01:52] <seb128> dholbach, reply faster!!!
[01:52] <seb128> :p
=== pitti calms down seb
[01:52] <seb128> I'm calm, I just want to be on time for breakfast :p
[01:53] <ajmitch> heh
[01:54] <mdke> zyga, smurf can help you with that probably
[01:54] <zyga> smurf: ping
[01:54] <dholbach> pitti: did seb128 sleep all flight again?
[01:54] <smurf> zyga: ?
[01:54] <sivang> seb128: how do you do that? :)
[01:54] <smurf> ah
[01:54] <smurf> moment
[01:54] <pitti> dholbach: no, that would have been a waste; we'll tell you when you are here
[01:54] <zyga> smurf: could you help me with a logging bot for #u-translators
[01:54] <sivang> heheh
[01:54] <seb128> dholbach, come on, is that something I would do, sleeping all the flight!? :p
[01:55] <seb128> dholbach, when do you come? saturday?
[01:56] <dholbach> seb128: yes, around 12 something
[01:57] <seb128> k
[01:57] <seb128> anyway, time for breakfast now
[01:57] <seb128> later guys
[01:57] <sivang> seb128: bon appetite
[01:57] <seb128> thanks
[01:57] <seb128> pitti, move !
[01:57] <sivang> heheh
[01:57] <dholbach> have fun, guys
=== seb128 hugs dholbach 
[01:57] <dholbach> :)
[01:58] <ajmitch> mm, hungry now
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[01:58] <seb128> dholbach, thanks for the GNOME uploads
[01:58] <zyga> smurf: where can I look for the logs
[01:59] <dholbach> seb128: de rien :)
[01:59] <smurf> netz.smurf.noris.de/logs/freenode
[01:59] <seb128> dholbach,  k, going now, see you later
[01:59] <zyga> smurf: thanks :-)
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[02:01] <mdke> jdub, still around?
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[02:07] <fabbione> zyga: ?
[02:07] <zyga> fabbione: already taken care of :-)
[02:08] <fabbione> zyga: ok
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[02:13] <mdke> jdub, ok no worries, deping
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[02:23] <mdke> when I copy a file to a remote server using nautilus/sftp, it maintains the file permissions that the file had on the local server, rather than giving it the ownership of the user logged in by sftp... am I wrong in thinking that this is a bug?
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[02:33] <dholbach> see you later
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[02:34] <mdke> elmo, sent you a brief /query
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[02:44] <fabbione> infinity: ping?
[02:46] <Simira> fabbione : are you working on Sunday?
[02:47] <fabbione> Simira: for the Love day i will be around.. so yes
[02:47] <Simira> fabbione : ok. We're thinking about when to go to the zoo. If you wanted to join, we'll go another day.
[02:48] <fabbione> Simira: please just do your planning because i have vac today and probably tomorrow
[02:48] <fabbione> so i will go around a bit on my own too
[02:48] <fabbione> not sure where yet
[02:48] <Simira> ok
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[02:56] <Diziet> Scary.  Debian's firefox, if you click on a link which has the right content-type, will offer to execute it for you.
[02:59] <Lathiat> Diziet: eww
[02:59] <Lathiat> Diziet: nice
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[03:03] <Treenaks> wb smurf 
[03:03] <Treenaks> uh
[03:03] <Treenaks> wimi
[03:03] <Treenaks> uh
[03:03] <Treenaks> ARGH
[03:03] <Treenaks> wb Simira
[03:03] <smurf> Treenaks: heh
[03:03] <Diziet> *boggle*
=== Mithrandir ruffles Treenaks
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[03:04] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: it must be the GB/US keyboard switching I'm doing all the time
[03:04] <fabbione> i am off
[03:04] <fabbione> later fellas
[03:04] <Diziet> Right content-type> Well, it has to be a ffox extension or theme but of course that's no excuse.
[03:04] <Simira> ok, someone: When I try to run Totem, x restarts. It's kind of annoying... any good ideas?
[03:04] <Mithrandir> Simira: I think it's spelt "bug". :-P
[03:05] <sivang> Simira: that used to happen to me with vmware , but I guerss with totem it's less scary :)
[03:05] <Simira> Mithrandir : seems like there's enough bugs reported on similar problems
[03:06] <Mithrandir> Simira: upgrade to dapper. ;-P  (Or don't, you should probably wait a little)
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[03:06] <Simira> I should rather downgrade to Hoary then :p
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[03:52] <pef> ajmitch: hello ajmitch , I have a question about your latest patch for ginac
[03:53] <ajmitch> oh?
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[03:56] <pef> ajmitch: yeah :) ginac is FTBS in breezy, and I have fixed this, should I append my patch to your patch, or create a new one ?
[03:57] <ajmitch> sigh, it  shouldn't ftbfs, but I changed it quite early on, I think
[03:58] <pef> ajmitch: how did you generate your patch ? using dpatch-edit ?
[03:58] <ajmitch> probably
[03:58] <ajmitch> I'd have to find it to see
[03:59] <pef> ajmitch: FTBS isn't very hard to find: http://dev.erodia.net/ubuntu/ginac_const-fix.diff
[03:59] <ajmitch> right, that was back in june..
[03:59] <ajmitch> the compiler had changed since then as well :)
[04:00] <pef> yep !
[04:00] <ajmitch> probably just update the current patch
[04:01] <pef> ajmitch: does my patch seems ok for you ?
=== ajmitch can't tell just by looking, at 3am ;)
[04:01] <ajmitch> because my c++ skills are a little rusty at the moment
[04:03] <pef> ajmitch: ok :]  I believe it's just a gcc4 issue, I think my patch is ok, but I will submit it to someone for review
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[04:05] <pef> ajmitch: thank you anyway, and good night 8)
[04:05] <ajmitch> night :)
[04:06] <pef> not for me, 4pm here ;)
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[04:31] <spayne> any idea when launchpad will be back?
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[04:37] <mdke> wrong channel spayne 
=== mdke points
[04:37] <spayne> #ubuntu......
[04:37] <spayne> mdke: where should i be?
[04:38] <mdke> #launchpad
[04:38] <spayne> mdke: thanks :)
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[05:15] <psusi> does anyone know how to track down exactly how a package was built?  Like if it was built by build-deamons for instance?
[05:16] <Diziet> All of the packages in our archive were built by build-daemons.
[05:16] <psusi> hrm... I'm trying to figure out why a number of libraries on the amd64 build were built wrong, which leads to wasting of tons of ram
[05:17] <psusi> specifically, they were built with a 1 MB alignment requirement so what would be an 8 KB mapping ends up being a 1 MB mapping... this for 2 mappings per library per process, with about 40 such libs used in a few dozen processes... wastes a lot of ram
[05:18] <mjg59> psusi: Probably toolchain breakage
[05:18] <Diziet> psusi: Are you sure that it actually wastes RAM ?  Perhaps, for example, the page table entries cover 1Mb each.
[05:18] <psusi> so did build-daemons get an upgrade to toolchain after it built some of the libs, then the rest of the libs came out with this problem?
[05:19] <mjg59> psusi: That's quite possible.
[05:19] <Diziet> I think the right approach is firstly to understand whether it's really a problem and then see if you can reproduce it in a local build.
[05:20] <psusi> oh yes, it is definately a real problem... system monitor shows 500 out of 1000 megs used on a freshly booted desktop
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[05:21] <psusi> heck, clock-applet uses 111 megs of ram
[05:21] <psusi> that's insane
[05:21] <psusi> I looked at the pmaps and it's largely due to around 80 1 MB maps that should be rather small
[05:22] <psusi> but the objdump output of the libs in question show they have a 2**20 alignment requirement... which should not be
[05:22] <mjg59> psusi: If you apt-get source one of the libraries, dpkg-buildpackage it and install that deb, does it show the same problem?
[05:23] <psusi> dunno.... I'll have to try that tonight
[05:23] <Diziet> Wahey, another of my giant 3-way diffs has finished.
[05:23] <psusi> take a look at this: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18560
[05:24] <psusi> as well as my post to the devel mailing list titled "Strange memory maps wasting ram"
[05:24] <psusi> I posted the output of pmap and objdump
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[05:28] <Diziet> psusi: Yes, we've seen.  To diagnose and fix it, you need to reproduce the problem in your local environment (ie, rebuild the package) and investigate what the toolchain is doing.
[05:29] <psusi> heh... well, I'll give it a try I guess... but right now I don't really know how to do that exactly
[05:33] <Diziet> Um, see what mjg59 wrote up ^ there.
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[05:33] <Diziet> When you've got it building you'll be able to see what command-line options the build process uses.
[05:33] <psusi> ok... I'll see if I can figure it out tonight
[05:33] <Diziet> Maybe you'll spot something.
[05:33] <psusi> I have a hunch that it's going to be something to do with a specs file or something burried deep like that
[05:33] <Diziet> If not, try adding -v to the final link line.
[05:33] <Diziet> Right.
[05:34] <Diziet> That's OK, the -v will show you what the specs file makes it do.
[05:34] <psusi> ahhh
[05:34] <psusi> now I just have to figure out specs files and how one would set alignment requirements ;)
[05:35] <Diziet> It won't tell you how to fix the specs file if that's what's wrong but you'll be able to repeat the actual link rune that the compiler driver invented, with various options etc.
[05:36] <psusi> yea... there's probably some directive in the specs file that sets the alignment and it's just wrong in the current toolchain
[05:36] <psusi> I'll start looking at the specs file when I get home
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[05:53] <spayne> jdub: i've redone my hackergochi - can i resend it over and what size is best?
=== ivoks gave up on planet :)
[05:55] <spayne> ivoks: what do you mean?
[05:56] <ivoks> spayne: it's a joke
[05:56] <spayne> ivoks: i am looking forward to being on p.u.c - my blog might get read :)
[05:56] <ivoks> :)
[05:56] <spayne> ivoks: but my hackergochi was shit so i just done another
=== spayne is in jdub's hands
[05:57] <ivoks> bye
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[06:02] <mdke> argh \sh_away's weekly blog attack
[06:02] <Nafallo> huh? :-)
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[06:04] <mdke> Nafallo, each week \sh's blog attacks planet with ferocity and without mercy
[06:04] <Nafallo> it does?
[06:04] <mdke> sure
[06:04] <mdke> look
[06:05] <Nafallo> those are old things.
[06:05] <mdke> yes
[06:05] <Nafallo> I don't get them since I use liferea normally ;-)
[06:05] <mdke> ah
[06:05] <mdke> each week the old things get bumped to the top of planet
[06:06] <mdke> being as how he's a time lord and all
[06:06] <Nafallo> hehe
[06:06] <Nafallo> we have to get slomo in. I think he was about to switch to the same blogengine ;-)
[06:06] <Nafallo> or was it tseng...
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[06:17] <ogra> hey mdz :)
[06:20] <sivang> nice to seel everyone appear back on IRC :-)
=== spayne hopes he will make it onto the planet
[06:20] <mdke> spayne, you'll have to wait a while, elmo needs to do a sync and he is busy, i have been bugging him about it too
[06:21] <spayne> mdke: sync?
[06:21] <mdke> in the meantime there is plenty of work to do :)
[06:21] <Kamion> mdz: have you prepared anything for the talk first thing Sunday morning?
[06:21] <mdz> Kamion: that's what Saturday evening is for
[06:22] <Kamion> heh
[06:22] <ogra> grumble .... the hostel blocks port 25
[06:22] <spayne> mdke: i'm gonna finished iFolder HOWTOs and work on my IntroductionUbuntuPackaging to keep my mind off it
[06:22] <Kamion> I get in at 7:25pm on Saturday, and presumably it'll take a couple of hours to get to the hotel
[06:22] <Kamion> so if you're happy to sprint through it in a couple of hours, that's fine ;)
[06:22] <ogra> Kamion, a couple of hours ??
[06:22] <mdke> spayne, gah, there is already material on packaging
[06:22] <mdke> spayne, please read WikiGuide
=== spayne feels left out
[06:22] <spayne> mdke: dholbach suggested it
[06:23] <Kamion> ogra: are you saying that's an underestimate or an overestimate?
[06:23] <spayne> mdke: as there is no uptodate stuff
[06:23] <ogra> Kamion, over :)
[06:23] <spayne> mdke: \sh's is good but out of date
[06:23] <spayne> mdke: so i'm gonna do a new one based around Dapper
[06:23] <mdz> Kamion: depending on how the next few days go, maybe I'll have time to get some bullet points down
[06:23] <Kamion> ogra: I always overestimate the time required to deal with transport, if I possibly can; airports usually don't disappoint me on that
[06:23] <mdke> spayne, please improve old guides rather than writing new ones
[06:24] <mdz> Kamion: of course, if you'd like to do the outline and send it to me...
[06:24] <Kamion> mdz: I'll have a think about it on the plane, then
[06:24] <mdz> we can do an iteration or two before you arrive
[06:24] <Kamion> mdz: unlikely, given it's nearly the end of today and I'm off tomorrow
[06:24] <ogra> Kamion, it took me about 45min to get to the city center yesterday .... (admittinly i took a taxi which might be faster than bus)
[06:24] <mdz> I'm knee-deep in prep right now
[06:24] <Kamion> yeah, understood
[06:24] <mdz> in fact I shouldn't be here ;-)
=== mdz waves
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[06:26] <ogra> Kamion, you know the rule how to get through customs very fast ? just declare something... they always wave me through after havin seen this single declared piece :)
=== Kinnison eats "Saucy BBQ flavour" mini-cheddars and is reminded inexorably of the pretzels you get given on planes
[06:27] <Kinnison> ogra: that's my trick
=== Kinnison uses his inhalers
[06:27] <Kinnison> (to get through customs)
[06:27] <ogra> hehe
=== Kinnison did it in australia and got through in about 2 minutes
[06:28] <ogra> i have my AP with me... i declared it as commercial piece for a presentation :)
[06:28] <Kinnison> heh
[06:28] <ogra> everybody else on this plane had to unpack *everything*
[06:28] <Kinnison> hehe
[06:29] <Lathiat> ogra: really?
[06:29] <Lathiat> interesting
[06:29] <ogra> yup
[06:29] <Nafallo> ogra: did they find any terrorists then? ;-)
[06:29] <Lathiat> do airports really make you unpack everything often?
[06:29] <Lathiat> i've never flown international
[06:29] <Lathiat> interstate its pretty lax
[06:29] <ogra> hehe, nope... but some sexual explicit books under the pants of the girl in front of me ...
[06:29] <Lathiat> they dont like it when you pile two laptops on top of each other and throw it thorugh the xray tho
[06:29] <Lathiat> ogra: haha
[06:30] <Nafallo> hihi
[06:31] <ogra> i hardly couldnt avoid laughing when the officer asked "oh you read *this* ?" with eyes big like sucers
[06:31] <ogra> *saucers
=== Nafallo tried to get his knife throw when flying national. told them it belonged to the uniform ;-).
[06:31] <Nafallo> through even
[06:32] <Nafallo> didn't work :-P
[06:32] <ogra> why the heck do all hostels in the world seem to block port 25 ? GRRRR
[06:32] <Nafallo> ogra: because of spam? :-)
[06:33] <ogra> Nafallo, everything else is open :(
[06:33] <Nafallo> yepp
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[06:33] <Nafallo> even smb?
[06:33] <ogra> heh, didnt try :)
[06:33] <ogra> but i'd guess so
[06:34] <Nafallo> my isp told me they had closed 25 137-139 445 :-P
[06:34] <Nafallo> they haven't though ;-)
[06:36] <zyga> can I still add my spec for discussion at UBZ?
[06:36] <Nafallo> ehm, I've changed my nickserv password?
[06:38] <ogra> Nafallo, cloaking ? 
[06:38] <Nafallo> trying to, seems I've changed my password :-/
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[06:38] <Seveas> you were logged in with cloak 2 minutes ago Nafallo 
[06:39] <Nafallo> Seveas: wrong cloak no?
[06:39] <Seveas> NickServ-           Last Seen: 2 minutes 42 seconds ago
[06:39] <Seveas> -NickServ-   Last Seen Address: n=nafallo@ubuntu/member/nafallo
[06:39] <Nafallo> hmm, odd
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[06:44] <Nafallo> password is back! :-)
[06:46] <mdke> Treenaks, Seveas ping?
[06:46] <Treenaks> mdke: pong
[06:46] <Seveas> mdke, pong
[06:46] <mdke> yo
[06:46] <Treenaks> what up?
[06:46] <Treenaks> ;)
[06:46] <mdke> just out of interest, when is that dutch translation weekend thing happening?
[06:46] <Seveas> 19/20 nov.
[06:47] <Treenaks> mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DutchTeamSpurt :)
[06:47] <Seveas> Treenaks, he can't read that :)
[06:47] <Treenaks> Seveas: babelfish can try ;)
=== mdke brushes up on his dutch
[06:47] <Treenaks> Seveas: and you still haven't put your pic on there :)
[06:47] <Seveas> (and the date is not even on that page...)
[06:47] <mdke> ok thanks
[06:47] <mdke> sure the date is there
[06:47] <Seveas> s/is/was/
[06:48] <Seveas> been a while since i looked apparently
[06:48] <mdke> ok cool
[06:48] <mdke> maybe the starterguide translation will be finished by then anyhows
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=== lamont grumbles at network-manager
[06:58] <Nafallo> lamont: oh?
=== Nafallo runs j^'s version ;-)
[06:59] <lamont> well, mostly looking for someone clueful to help a buddy out with it...
[06:59] <Nafallo> works :-)
[07:00] <lamont> network-manager/dbus/etc interactions/flow seems to be the question he has.. 
[07:00] <Nafallo> running breezys version?
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[07:04] <lamont> yeah
[07:04] <lamont> if you're in a mood to poke jbrett either in /msg or #ubuntu, 'twould be nice
[07:05] <Nafallo> I really don't know much about it except the version from j^'s repo actually works :-P
[07:05] <Nafallo> atleast here
[07:05] <lamont> ah, ok
[07:06] <\sh> Seveas: u already set up the cloaks?
[07:06] <Nafallo> \sh: looks like it :-)
[07:06] <jbrett> lamont, Nafallo: I'm just trying to grok NM * dhcdbd enough to figure out how to hook it :)
=== jbrett had some nice dhclient-exit-hooks that used to work, but are no longer called under NM control.
[07:07] <Nafallo> I fear the internal structure ;-).
[07:07] <jbrett> lol
[07:07] <\sh> Nafallo: yeah
[07:08] <Nafallo> \sh: hehe, /\ :-P
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[07:20] <ogra> mvo HEY !
[07:21] <mvo> hey ogra 
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[07:29] <Kinnison> ciao all
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[07:47] <Nafallo> jbrett: j^ should now everything about NM by now :-)
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[07:56] <spayne> aloha
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[08:08] <zyga> any glib/gtk upstreams around here?
[08:08] <ajmitch> morning all
[08:10] <spayne> hey ajmitch 
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[08:15] <ogra> godd afternoon ajmitch 
[08:15] <spayne> whiprush: ping
[08:15] <spayne> hey ogra 
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[08:16] <\sh> ajmitch: ETA to take off?
[08:17] <spayne> when UBZ starts, will IRC be very busy or very quiet?
[08:17] <ajmitch> \sh: about 2 & 1/2 hours till I go to the airport
[08:17] <Amaranth> quiet
[08:17] <spayne> doesn't it start on Sunday :)
[08:18] <spayne> Amaranth: :(
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[08:18] <Amaranth> anyone know why python-libxml2 is in universe while python2.4-libxml2 is in main?
[08:19] <spayne> Amaranth: just a guess but is python-libxml2 for an older version of python?
[08:19] <Amaranth> nope
[08:19] <spayne> Amaranth: same package?
[08:19] <Amaranth> it's just a package that depends on whatever the latest pythonX.X-libxml2 is
[08:19] <Amaranth> built from the same source package
[08:19] <spayne> Amaranth: that is werid, they should either be one or the other
[08:19] <Amaranth> should both be in main
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[08:21] <ivoks> \sh: when do you leave?
[08:21] <\sh> ivoks: saturday 7:30 i'll go to cologne airport
[08:22] <ivoks> :)
[08:22] <ivoks> \sh: nervous? :))
[08:22] <whiprush> spayne: yo
[08:22] <\sh> ivoks: only during takeoffs and landings
[08:23] <\sh> ivoks: the rest will be tomatoe-juice and beer ;-) and watching hopefully some movies 
[08:23] <ivoks> \sh: you like kde, right?
[08:23] <ivoks> \sh: what do you say about http://baghira.sourceforge.net/OS_Clone-en.shtml ? :)
[08:23] <Amaranth> down with planet \sh!
[08:24] <\sh> ivoks: it's baghira :) i don't like baghira ;)
[08:24] <ivoks> :)
[08:24] <\sh> Amaranth: IT'S NOT MY FAULT !
=== ajmitch can't wait for planet to be flooded with UBZ photos ;)
[08:25] <\sh> jdub: please have a look on "planetplus" and forget about planetplanet ,-)
[08:25] <\sh> jdub: it's python but has a database backend for storing the posts..which makes sense and works somehow or use s9y planet plugin
[08:26] <ajmitch> we should move beyond planets & go for the universe
[08:26] <ivoks> jdub: and please, please add my blog too :)
[08:26] <spayne> jdub: don't forget lil' seb as well :)
[08:27] <\sh> oh god...I just made a change only to have this stupid python-sip4/qt3/kde3 stuff under ubuntuX control
[08:27] <Amaranth> \sh: your blog engine likes changing timestamps or something
[08:27] <\sh> Amaranth: it's not doing this
[08:27] <ajmitch> \sh: you can get the changes dropped if needed
=== henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[08:28] <\sh> Amaranth: there is no way to change timestamps in a db record without manual interaction of GOD^Wme
[08:28] <spayne> ajmitch: are you off to UBZ?
[08:28] <ajmitch> spayne: soon, don't be so impatient to get rid of me :)
[08:28] <ogra> Amaranth, planet has a bug there for ages ... dont you remember makos blog owning the planet several times ?
[08:28] <\sh> ajmitch: no...the problem is, that I don't want to have it synced at any time from debian...because python-qt stuff is pain in da ass
[08:28] <spayne> ajmitch: lol - just wondering
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[08:29] <ajmitch> spayne: my flight is in 3 hours to auckland
[08:29] <ajmitch> domestic, so I don't need to check in very early
[08:29] <ogra> Amaranth, its planet with certain blogs... not the blog itself
[08:29] <spayne> ajmitch: i want to see photos to pretend i am there :)
=== spayne has never been futher than Hungary
[08:29] <ajmitch> oh I'll take photos, I think
[08:29] <spayne> ajmitch: woo!
[08:29] <Amaranth> now i'm just confused
=== ajmitch hasn't been further then australia :P
[08:30] <Amaranth> for some reason if i don't have /usr/bin/smeg _and_ /usr/share/applications/smeg.desktop gnome-panel will launch gmenu-simple-editor
[08:30] <\sh> Amaranth: planet has a bug, not my blog...
[08:31] <spayne> \sh: how does s9y compare to WordPress?
[08:31] <\sh> spayne: well...both are written in PHP...
[08:32] <ajmitch> hm, my suitcase seems rather empty
[08:32] <\sh> spayne: that's all...the rest are all differences...e.g. captchas included, without recodeing php-pages...everything is done via plugins, which are installed directly from the net...etc. for me better then WP 
[08:32] <\sh> spayne: I tested most of the blog software..and I like s9y
[08:33] <ogra> Amaranth, thats expected .... if smeg isnt there, the panel shall fall back to the biltin editor
[08:33] <spayne> ajmitch: just shove some underpants, shoes and beer
[08:33] <spayne> ajmitch: you can survive with that ;)
[08:33] <Amaranth> ogra: But I'm replacing smeg with alacarte and if I only have one or the other (via symlink) I get gmenu-simple-editor, I need both.
[08:33] <spayne> alacarte?
[08:33] <Amaranth> smeg 0.8
[08:33] <Amaranth> new name
[08:34] <spayne> woo!, any new stuff Amaranth 
[08:34] <Amaranth> tons
=== spayne googles it
[08:34] <Amaranth> ha
[08:34] <ogra> Amaranth, why dont you keep the name for the desktop file then ? 
[08:34] <Amaranth> ogra: *shrug*
[08:34] <Amaranth> ogra: i'm just using dh_link
[08:35] <pef_aw> bye !
=== Amaranth uploads to his site
[08:35] <Amaranth> i'm going to wait for seb before i get it into dapper
[08:36] <spayne> Amaranth: it looks sweet
[08:36] <Amaranth> don't install yet :P
[08:36] <Amaranth> i'm not moving off of 0.8-0ubuntu1 until it's in the repos so you won't know if i've uploaded the fixed one or not
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[08:37] <Amaranth> done
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[08:37] <Amaranth> heh, good timing
[08:37] <Amaranth> ack
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[08:37] <Amaranth> you can do it! don't let go! ;)
[08:38] <mvo> hey seb128 
[08:38] <Amaranth> spayne: http://dev.realistanew.com/alacarte/releases/0.8/
[08:38] <ogra> seb128, already back from sightseeing ? 
[08:38] <spayne> Amaranth: i found it
[08:38] <Nafallo> morning seb128 :-)
[08:38] <spayne> hey seb128 
[08:38] <Amaranth> hey seb128 
[08:38] <ajmitch> morning seb128 
[08:38] <Amaranth> spayne: redownload, i just uploaded the fixed one
[08:38] <spayne> will do
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[08:38] <ajmitch> hey pitti :)
[08:38] <ogra> hey pitti
[08:38] <Amaranth> hey pitti 
[08:38] <Nafallo> morning pitti :-)
[08:38] <Amaranth> heh
[08:38] <spayne> hey pitti
[08:38] <pitti> Hi folks
[08:39] <Amaranth> none of these people are answering
[08:39] <Amaranth> oh, there we go :D
=== pitti feels overwhelmed
[08:39] <spayne> wow! the conversation here sure is good
[08:39] <mvo> hey pitti 
[08:39] <spayne> let's try something
[08:39] <seb128> hey everybody
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[08:39] <ajmitch> mvo! :)
[08:39] <pitti> bon jour mvo
[08:39] <Amaranth> no one say hi
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[08:39] <seb128> pitti, it's one single word
[08:39] <spayne> hey all!
[08:39] <ajmitch> ok, I'd better get ready so that I can get to the airport
[08:39] <spayne> Amaranth: i saw that :)
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[08:40] <spayne> hey fabbione 
[08:40] <spayne> let's go again
[08:40] <Nafallo> morning fabbione :-)
[08:40] <spayne> did someone just kick me?
[08:40] <pitti> seb128: je suis desolet :)
[08:40] <seb128> it's today "hi day" or something?
[08:40] <seb128> pitti, "dsol"
[08:40] <ogra> seb128, this multilang city is odd .... i end up mixing english and french 
[08:40] <spayne> no one said hi to me seb128 
[08:40] <spayne> :(
[08:40] <Amaranth> seb128: don't suppose you could look at my alacarte pacakge? it fully replaces the smeg one, gnome-panel launches it instead of smeg, etc http://dev.realistanew.com/alacarte/releases/0.8/deb-src/
[08:40] <ajmitch> seb128: preparations for Love Day
[08:40] <fabbione> to
[08:40] <fabbione> yo
[08:40] <fabbione> Nafallo: morning?
[08:40] <fabbione> it's afternoon here
[08:40] <spayne> it's evening here
[08:41] <ogra> hey fabbione 
[08:41] <Nafallo> fabbione: it's always morning somewhere :-)
[08:41] <ajmitch> Nafallo: it's morning here, so that's ok
[08:41] <fabbione> hey ogra
[08:41] <seb128> Amaranth, what is "alacarte", you did rename smeg or that's another project?
[08:41] <Amaranth> seb128: rename
[08:41] <Nafallo> it's 20:41 here, and I'm dead tired :-P
[08:41] <spayne> seb128: it's a rename
[08:41] <ogra> fabbione, seen something from the city ? 
[08:42] <ajmitch> Nafallo: it's 7:40AM here & I'm dead tired ;)
[08:42] <fabbione> ogra: yeah.. i just come back to relax
[08:42] <Amaranth> seb128: massively better UI, new name, and translations :)
[08:42] <Nafallo> ajmitch: lol. you will have a good day then ;-)
[08:42] <ogra> heh
[08:42] <ajmitch> oh yes
[08:42] <ajmitch> I'll be in the airport until ~8pm tonight after my flight up north
[08:42] <ajmitch> terribly exciting
[08:42] <ajmitch> and they don't have wifi :P
[08:43] <seb128> Amaranth, you did that in 2 days?
[08:43] <seb128> Amaranth, is there some l10n?
[08:43] <Amaranth> seb128: it's been about 6 months since 0.7.5
[08:43] <Amaranth> seb128: yeah, it's got a half dozen or so translations with it already
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[08:44] <seb128> Amaranth, I pinged  you like 10 days ago, you said you trashed everything with your hdd and had no linux box no ... or I mix with somebody else?
[08:44] <Amaranth> seb128: It was a bit longer than that but I already had it half done then.
[08:45] <Amaranth> seb128: My HD died and my linux box has no internet access.
[08:45] <Amaranth> (HD died when I had it almost done, was already halfway through rewriting it)
[08:46] <spayne> Amaranth: are you Travis?
[08:46] <Amaranth> ack, crap
[08:46] <Amaranth> yep
[08:46] <Amaranth> seb128: one problem with that package, it installs two menu entries
[08:46] <Amaranth> let me make a new one real quick
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[08:47] <spayne> are things broken in Dapper atm?
[08:47] <seb128> Amaranth, just weird that some weeks ago you said there was almost no changes because you trashed them and can't work on it, and now you say that youhave change for 6 months
[08:47] <seb128> ie: we could have use that for 5.10
[08:47] <zyga> spayne: not yet
[08:47] <zyga> seb128: do you have a moment
[08:47] <seb128> zyga, sure
[08:47] <Amaranth> seb128: I had it almost done before 5.10, then my HD died.
[08:47] <Amaranth> seb128: Then I started over and about a month later I have this.
=== spayne wonders whether he should dist-upgrade his laptop to dapper.....
[08:48] <zyga> seb128: in #u-translators we are trying to squash a rather pesky bug
[08:48] <Amaranth> seb128: Although when you pinged me about it last time I had a bad superblock on /home that I thought took all my work with it again.
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[08:48] <zyga> seb128: the long story short: many gui translations are broken and display with their context prefix like |Some|Context|The real message
[08:48] <zyga> seb128: we've patched glib to always strip the context (Q_ aka g_strip_context) 
[08:49] <zyga> seb128: but it persists in some obscure locations like in keyboard accelerators for nautilus
[08:49] <zyga> seb128: we've checked that the relevant message is translated with preloadable_libintl.so
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[08:50] <zyga> seb128: and are just plain out of ideas now
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[08:54] <spayne> brb
[08:58] <Amaranth> ugh, nautilus froze
=== Amaranth kicks this slow thing
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[09:01] <\sh> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/27/redhat_customer_control/
[09:02] <Amaranth> seb128: fixed package uploaded
[09:02] <Amaranth> seb128: passes lintian and linda with no warnings are errors and all that jazz
[09:02] <\sh> I don't believe matthew szulik ever said that
[09:03] <\sh> "The desktop has become a lot like teenage sex: a lot of people are talking about it but not many people are doing it," Szulik said.
[09:03] <\sh> wuah
[09:03] <ajmitch> haha
[09:03] <\sh> [ ]  Szulik has a clue
[09:06] <\sh> I told Matthew, that the Desktop is the "Upcoming Market of Linux"...but his attitude was "Hey, guy, You're a geek, I'm the sales guy"
[09:07] <ajmitch> sad
[09:07] <\sh> that was 2001
[09:07] <ajmitch> ubuntu has shown that there's a demand 
[09:09] <\sh> yeah
[09:10] <ogra> the demand was there long before... ubuntu has proven that we can satisfy it :)
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[09:18] <\sh> I just wrote an open letter to matthew ;)
[09:19] <ajmitch> on your blog? :)
[09:20] <\sh> ajmitch: sure :) 
=== ajmitch goes to read
[09:20] <ajmitch> ahh....
=== ajmitch should know to turn sound down when visiting \sh's blog
[09:20] <\sh> hahahaha
[09:21] <infinity> elmo / mdz / kamion : Whoever gets there first, libkpathsea4 needs to be bumped to main (tetex-bin depends on it)... libkpathsea4-dev probably wants to move too, but if nothing build-deps on it, we can seed it explicitely.
[09:24] <pitti> infinity: didn't ask Frank to *not* b-dep on it anytime soon? Well, that was probably just to avoid another transition in Debian
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[09:24] <pitti> infinity: s/ask Frank/Frank ask/
[09:28] <infinity> pitti : Yeah, it's bound to happen eventually anyway.  But if nothing build-deps on it to have germinate pull it in, I'll just seed it.  No big deal.
[09:28] <carstenh> hi pitti 
[09:28] <pitti> Hi carstenh 
=== spayne goes to read \sh's letter
=== spayne has just found music on \sh's blog
[09:31] <spayne> we had a funny conv. last year at school whever BadgerBadgerBadger was all the rage
[09:31] <spayne> Sir, want to see something funny?
[09:31] <spayne> No, get on your with work (he is cockney)
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[09:31] <spayne> Come on sir, this is very good
[09:32] <spayne> I don't want to see pissing badgers humping the ground - get on with your work
[09:32] <Amaranth> seb128: ping?
[09:32] <spayne> true story :)
[09:32] <Treenaks> spayne: mushroom, mushroom?
[09:32] <spayne> ah! snake ah! snake
[09:33] <spayne> \sh: i totally agree with your post
[09:33] <seb128> Amaranth, pong
[09:34] <\sh> spayne: which one? the latest, or the badger one? ,-)
[09:34] <azeem> \sh: do you imply that RedHat is not working hard on GNOME?
[09:34] <Amaranth> seb128: did you take a look at the package? it's all fixed up now
[09:34] <spayne> \sh: the last one :)
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[09:35] <Amaranth> seb128: http://dev.realistanew.com/alacarte/releases/0.8/deb-src/
[09:35] <seb128> Amaranth, I'm trying to catch up with mails and stuff with my laptop from an hotel room atm, so please be patient
[09:35] <\sh> azeem: no..I know that some good people at RH are working hard at gnome..but the board never knew about the "need of an integrated desktop environment"...and matthew is one of them..and he never listend to the people
[09:35] <Amaranth> seb128: ok, that's fine. just making sure you knew i updated it
[09:36] <seb128> Amaranth, thanks
=== spayne never knew sabdfl had a plane
[09:36] <Amaranth> how could he not?
[09:36] <spayne> Amaranth: good point
[09:36] <\sh> spayne: canonical one ;)
[09:37] <spayne> \sh: most companies give a company car but sabdfl gives all Canonical stuff a plane each ;)
[09:37] <spayne> \sh: lol - it works on so many levels
[09:39] <\sh> spayne: well...he earned it...and what he did before his flight to space..was good...so he appreciate the plane...
[09:39] <spayne> \sh: i agree that MS deserves everything he has
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[09:40] <xhaker> Hi
[09:40] <highvoltage> spayne: shew, for a moment there i thought you were refering to the other ms.
[09:41] <spayne> highvoltage: hell no :)
[09:41] <spayne> that is M$
[09:41] <Treenaks> Mwho?
[09:42] <spayne> M$ = Microsoft
[09:42] <spayne> MS = Mark Shuttleworth
[09:42] <Treenaks> spayne: no, sabdfl = mark ;)
[09:42] <spayne> Treenaks: no, Mark Shuttleworth = Mark Shuttleworth ;)
[09:43] <seb128> Amaranth, why to mv the desktop file to smeg.desktop?
[09:43] <seb128> Amaranth, it's smeg renamed? Why not using the current smeg package?
[09:45] <Amaranth> seb128: i don't understand
[09:45] <Amaranth> i do the mv to make gnome-panel happy
[09:45] <seb128> don't understand what?
[09:45] <Amaranth> why i would want to use the current smeg package
[09:45] <seb128> the correct way is to update the gnome-panel patch
[09:45] <seb128> because that's the same app?
[09:45] <Amaranth> i'm trying to get away from that name
[09:46] <seb128> sure, but that don't need you need to make a package from scratch
[09:46] <Amaranth> you mean i should keep the changelog?
[09:46] <Amaranth> i didn't, really
[09:46] <seb128> just edit debian/changelog, debian/control
[09:46] <seb128> yep
[09:46] <seb128> and you should ship the manpage upstream
[09:46] <seb128> rather than from debian/
[09:46] <Amaranth> i don't know how :)
[09:46] <seb128> ah ah
[09:46] <Amaranth> i just took that from a debian package of 0.5
[09:47] <seb128> Build-Depends stuff on @cdbs@ is considered as evil
[09:47] <seb128> better to not use it
[09:48] <Amaranth> yeah, i noticed it put build-essential in there
[09:50] <Amaranth> seb128: also, i mv to smeg.desktop to keep it working on breezy
=== otavio is now known as otavio[off] 
[09:50] <Amaranth> for breezy users that get it manually and for backports when they come
[09:51] <seb128> still not right
[09:51] <seb128> you should not give wrongs name to current package because of backports
[09:51] <\sh> Amaranth: cdbs put what? build-essential?
[09:51] <Amaranth> \sh: yeah, i think so
[09:52] <\sh> Amaranth: hmmm..I wonder who broke cdbs ;)
[09:54] <seb128> I tend to blame jbailey :)
=== seb128 runs
[09:58] <Amaranth> yippee, already my first bug
[09:58] <Amaranth> hide something with gmenu-simple-editor and it doesn't seem to show at all in alacarte anymore
[09:58] <Amaranth> my answer? Don't do that.
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[10:21] <magnon> oo. we just recieved a godiva catalog :)
[10:23] <jordi> dfsdf
[10:26] <pitti> jordi: I love you too :-)
[10:26] <ajmitch> jordi! :)
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[10:40] <jordi> gracias amigos :)
[10:43] <pitti> jordi: bonjour, monsieur 
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[11:11] <hughsie> ogra: ping
[11:13] <hughsie> and ubuntu dbus guys here?
[11:14] <ogra> hughsie, sorry got no time
[11:15] <hughsie> ogra: n/p
[11:16] <Nafallo> hughsie: most guys are in .ca having IRL-fun :-)
[11:16] <carstenh> ajmitch: ping.  do you think an firewall solution need some kind of interface to zeroconf?
[11:16] <carstenh> ajmitch: i hope you are the right one for this question :)
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[11:17] <Nafallo> carstenh: Lathiat are avahi upstream :-)
[11:17] <Nafallo> (I hope he got the hilight now ;-))
[11:17] <hughsie> Nafallo: okay, thanks. I was just wondering why dbus on ubuntu doesn't honour the at_console permission?
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[11:17] <carstenh> Nafallo: thanks :)
[11:18] <carstenh> . o O (Sorry, avahi was not found in the database.)
[11:18] <Nafallo> carstenh: http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi :-)
[11:18] <j^> hughsie at_console is a redhat patch
[11:18] <carstenh> ah, not an acronym :)
[11:19] <j^> use group="plugdev" should work
[11:19] <j^> at_console involves patching pam, dbus and other places
[11:20] <hughsie> j^: ohh right! in dapper there are loads of references to at-console in the hal system.d file
[11:21] <Nafallo> carstenh: btw, why do we need a firewall on ubuntu? :-)
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[11:22] <j^> hm, in which case i have no clue, is it planned to merge the at_console system for dapper?
[11:23] <hughsie> j^: not sure, sure makes my work easier with g-p-m if ubuntu do follow suit
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[11:23] <carstenh> Nafallo: Use-case: Harry wishes to share the connection on his computer to the rest of his family. Another use-case: Tom wants to test some php-applications on his local web-browser, but does not want it to be accesed from outside :)
[11:23] <Nafallo> hughsie: thanx btw. looks great in dapper :-)
[11:24] <Nafallo> carstenh: case two should be Listen 127.0.0.1, no? :-)
=== Nafallo can see the first usecase :-)
[11:24] <hughsie> Nafallo: thanks! can you get g-p-m to suspend?
[11:25] <carstenh> Nafallo: tom has no expericene in configuring apache
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[11:25] <Nafallo> hughsie: I have never had proper wakeup, so better not try hardkilling it again :-). hibernate does not work though.
[11:25] <sivang> carstenh: you might want to add to this a bridging solution :)
=== j^ is currently in this usecase: j has to share the wireless network from next door to the other people in the room, using a building and pcmcia wireless card
[11:26] <Nafallo> carstenh: hehe, oki :-). well, I'm still your tester when you have something :-).
[11:26] <hughsie> Nafallo: I think the at_console stuff is stopping it working correctly on dapper
[11:26] <carstenh> sivang: i have no idea what you mean :/
[11:26] <carstenh> Nafallo: fine :)
[11:27] <Nafallo> hughsie: works from System -> Shutdown -> Hibernate. am I right I don't need p-m installed anymore?
[11:27] <sivang> carstenh: ah, well, to enable people to use a machine as a etherent bridge
[11:27] <carstenh> a bridge is a switch with two ports
[11:27] <carstenh> sivang: hmm, ok :)
[11:28] <Nafallo> carstenh: it's just that I feel I don't need it on my clients and some servers :-).
[11:28] <carstenh> Nafallo: most people won't need it (unless they have some kind of trojan horse)
[11:28] <robertj^> carstenh: apache is not going to be a 0-config solution for complex things
[11:29] <carstenh> Nafallo: but the one that need it will be very happy to have a simple gui to configure iptables
[11:29] <Nafallo> carstenh: I though I read something about a cli aswell? :-)
[11:29] <carstenh> robertj^: sure, but it works out of the box in some cases :=
[11:30] <carstenh> Nafallo: not cli, only config-files
[11:30] <robertj^> carstenh: are you talking about the summer of code firewall?
[11:30] <carstenh> Nafallo: cli only as interface for other packages that need to add i.e. masquerading
[11:30] <carstenh> robertj^: right
[11:30] <hughsie> Nafallo: no, no p-m, but you'll need CVS hal...
[11:31] <hughsie> Nafallo: whats your mail, and i'll cc you on an email i am writing
[11:31] <Nafallo> hughsie: nafallo(at)ubuntu.com :-)
[11:32] <Nafallo> carstenh: ah, oki :-). the usecase here is the non-X server ;-)
[11:32] <robertj^> one great feature would be to have two entirely different setups for nat and local and then ask users who were acting as the nat gateway which to setup whenever you ran the program
[11:32] <Nafallo> carstenh: but I'll hook up my laptop on a second ip for testing later :-)
[11:32] <robertj^> carsten: I guess a tab control would do the same thing though
[11:33] <carstenh> Nafallo: use vi when you have no X :)
[11:33] <robertj^> carstenh: and when you have X you use gvim!
[11:34] <Nafallo> carstenh: I will probably learn to use a decent editor some day indeed ;-)
[11:34] <Nafallo> now I use nano :-P
[11:34] <carstenh> robertj^: i don't think that two predefined configs would make life easier
[11:34] <Nafallo> hmm, I should write that src:vim bug :-)
[11:35] <robertj^> carsten: no, just to totally seperate out the policy for the local machine and the policy for the natted boxes
[11:35] <carstenh> robertj^: that is what fedora does with its security-levels (more or less)
[11:35] <robertj^> carsten: I like my default policy one way, allowing all
[11:35] <carstenh> robertj^: yes, it is seperate
[11:36] <carstenh> robertj^: you are able to create policies for inbound and outbound connections for every interface seperatly if you need to
[11:36] <robertj^> carstenh: where is the source?
[11:36] <carstenh> robertj^: and forward only some ports from some interfaces etc.
[11:36] <carstenh> robertj^: not usable atm
[11:36] <robertj^> carstenh: cool, but overkill for most users
[11:37] <robertj^> but then again no average users use a pc as a nat gateway anymore
[11:37] <carstenh> robertj^: yes, thats why that features are hidden in config-files and an advanced gui mode
[11:37] <robertj^> I guess really the target person for an easy to use firewall should be an edubuntu lab maintainer
[11:37] <Nafallo> carstenh: hmm, what about gui from client to servers firewall? ;-)
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[11:38] <carstenh> Nafallo: you mean a gui to configure a remote firewall?
[11:38] <robertj^> "Use case: John wants an easy way to do basic port forwarding and NAT for his lan." "Solution: go buy a $30 router, you will save that much in electricty within a year"
[11:39] <Nafallo> carstenh: yea, could be the same gui as for the local computer. but with File -> Connect to computer...  or something :-)
[11:39] <Nafallo> robertj^: hehe
[11:39] <carstenh> robertj^: john wants to provide an vpn dial in service, common routers does not support this
[11:39] <Nafallo> I got tired of my router not being able to do everything I wanted it to do :-)
[11:40] <Nafallo> WRT54G seems to have changed all that since then though :-P
[11:40] <spayne> routers seem to spend more time not working than working
[11:40] <robertj^> Nafallo: my 54g does everything I want and I haven't even used 3rd party firmware yet
[11:40] <carstenh> WRT54G + linux is too complicated for an avarage user
[11:40] <Nafallo> spayne: yea, that was a reason to :-)
[11:40] <spayne> i like my Speedtouch 510
[11:40] <Nafallo> robertj^: hehe, I had a Netgear ;-)
[11:40] <spayne> had over a year uptime
[11:41] <robertj^> I've had some very bad router experiences, but I know current firmware on the 54g produces a very reliable experience
[11:41] <carstenh> Nafallo: the remote configure feature sounds good, i have to think about how to implement it
[11:41] <robertj^> also it does very basic QOS which is just enough to put p2p apps in their place
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[11:42] <Nafallo> carstenh: :-)
[11:42] <carstenh> Nafallo: mounting /etc and tell the gui to use its config files is easy, but too complicated for an average user
[11:42] <robertj^> one thing that would be really nice to have would be a way to start/stop vino from the command line
[11:43] <Nafallo> carstenh: indeed. sshd seems to be a port open on most servers... and it's sane and encrypted.
[11:43] <carstenh>  /etc/init.d/vino start|stop does not work?
[11:43] <carstenh> Nafallo: so you would suggest scp the config files?
[11:44] <carstenh> Nafallo: or using sshfs?
[11:44] <robertj^> carsten: it's launched from gnome's session manager
[11:44] <Mithrandir> mdz: if you're ok with it, infinity and I have swapped tetex for thunderbird, so I get the TeX stuff (which I use, at least occasionally), while infinity gets thunderbird (which he uses daily), unless you object.
[11:44] <carstenh> robertj^: hmm
[11:44] <mdz> Mithrandir: works for me, though you did volunteer for tbird in the first place :-P
[11:44] <Nafallo> carstenh: scp should work. should be rather easy to implement to, no? :-)
[11:44] <carstenh> Nafallo: yes,  should be very easy
[11:45] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, I used to use it, and that was about a year ago. :-)
[11:45] <infinity> mdz : That's just cause he's a keener. :)
[11:45] <mdz> Mithrandir,infinity: note that there are UBZ specs around thunderbir
[11:45] <Mithrandir> mdz: so you might want to give infinity the "default apps in Thunderbird" spec ( https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/default-applications-thunderbird ), rather than me
[11:45] <mdz> and not tetex
[11:46] <mdz> so you will need to rebalance that workload
[11:46] <Mithrandir> mdz: it's just one spec, isn't it?
[11:46] <Mithrandir> I could always write up a spec on "how to unfuck TeX"
[11:46] <infinity> Speaking of.
[11:46] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: :-)
[11:46] <Mithrandir> except it's probably just Bugs, Bugs and Bugs and not too much to discuss.
[11:47] <infinity> mdz : Since we've got your attention, can you take 2 seconds out to promote libkpathsea4 to main? :)
[11:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: it's one of very few specs that you are responsible for, while infinity has quite a bundle
[11:47] <infinity> Mithrandir : I suspect there's not much to talk about, just stuff to do.
[11:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: weren't you going to dump some of the live cd stuff on me?
[11:48] <infinity> mdz : Mithrandir's rather good at eating through other people's bugs when he's bored, so I'll be sure to unshoulder some of my burden on him if I get swamped.
[11:48] <mdz> infinity: moved
[11:48] <infinity> mdz : Thanks.
[11:48] <Mithrandir> infinity: yeah, I went through a bunch of it today and triaged.  Some of it is "this breaks if you use raw TeX and haven't sacrificed the right chickens.  And yeah, all the docs for this part are in German.  kthxbye"
[11:49] <mdz> Mithrandir: https://launchpad.net/people/tfheen/+assignedspecs
[11:49] <mdz> have added you to a few today
[11:50] <Mithrandir> mdz: give me the One True $PATH spec?
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=== infinity laughs at that spec title.
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[11:53] <spayne> mdz: hello - can i ask you something?
[11:55] <spayne> mdz: i am being asked by a friend about MythTV on AMD 64 - what is the situation atm with it?
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[11:57] <cowbud> I created a schema that registers an irc url-handler for xchat how should I go about submitting this to ubuntu xchat for possible inclusion? 
[11:58] <zyga> cowbud: while I cannot accept that I'll say that for the most of us: cool
[11:58] <Amaranth> hey, who is making specs in launchpad without making them in the wiki?
[11:58] <zyga> cowbud: let's also patch the system->prefs->preferred apps to support this
[11:59] <cowbud> alright ill look in to that 
[11:59] <zyga> cowbud: file a bug against xchat
[11:59] <zyga> cowbud: post the patch and maybe ask in #ubuntu-desktop too
[11:59] <cowbud> alright
[12:00] <spayne> Amaranth: i edited a spec in the Wiki today for Ubuntu.Mac - did i do wrong?
[12:00] <zyga> cowbud: since almost everyone is busy at UBZ at the moment dont be discouraged if no one answers
[12:00] <cowbud> np thanks for the info..
[12:00] <spayne> zyga: doesn't it start on Sunday?
[12:01] <zyga> spayne: yes but then again the trip and the hotel is soooo nice ;-)
[12:01] <Mithrandir> spayne: is there any problem with MythTV and AMD64?
=== zyga whishes UBZ is so far away ;/
[12:01] <spayne> Mithrandir: aparantly, it doesn't install - there is a malone bug
[12:01] <spayne> Mithrandir: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/+bug/3211