[01:09] when i'm translating the faqguide, i found some inconsistency in the xml, sometimes it use and the others use , or that's the way it is? [01:13] Belutz: I believe that is left over from when the ubuntu and kubuntu faq guides were to derive from the same source [01:13] i see, ok [01:13] but someone else may have a better explanation === karlheg [n=karlheg@host-250-237.resnet.pdx.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=ubuntu@59.92.37.32] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@201-26-76-37.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-doc ["http://mpt.net.nz/"] [04:14] taking a damn break [04:48] the specs are coming thick and fast, right in the middle of all the docs, dammit [04:48] and the wiki is still slwo === Lathiat [i=lathiat@gasp.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.209.110] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.209.110] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.209.110] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:08] robitaille, the new gst-ffmpeg likely fixes the issue of apple trailers not have sound. See http://blogs.gnome.org/view/rbultje/2005/10/27/0 [06:11] Burgundavia, that's great news. [06:11] hi robitaille [06:11] Hi ajmitch [06:12] any of you run dapper? [06:12] so who from the doc team will be at UBZ? [06:12] not yet === robitaille points finger at Burgundavia [06:12] I think he is the only one [06:13] ok === linuxboy [n=anon@yoda.frogfoot.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === asw [n=asw@karuna.med.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jabra [n=jabra@polish.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === linuxboy [n=anon@yoda.frogfoot.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === asw [n=asw@karuna.med.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jabra [n=jabra@polish.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:47] Edited kde/Makefile to account for status output for Adept User Guide and html build for same doc [06:47] now off to bed, take care all === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-55-76.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:47] morning [08:49] evening [08:50] still have to write an email to doclist w/ my $0.02 about the wiki/doc move proposals... [08:51] ajmitch, I am the only one currently [08:52] hi [08:52] hello rob^ [08:52] Burgundavia: only one running Dapper? so what entertaining breakages have you had so far? [08:52] hi ajmitch [08:53] Madpilot, only one going to UBZ === Burgundavia just watched Hellboy [08:54] Madpilot, that would be good. [08:54] Burgundavia, need your comments too, especially because I put you down as a participant on the spec [08:54] mdke, for BetterWikiDocs? [08:55] mdke: writing now... been ignoring the computer all day, and am buried in email as a result... [08:55] yeah [08:56] especially on the "gradual move" idea [08:56] henrik had that yesterday [08:56] mdke, in regard to the faq guide on h.u.c, if we can't get this sorted out I can go to town on the html (I'd like to add proper anchors in any case) [08:57] rob^, it would be a shame to not do it for all languages :( [08:57] that is true [08:57] i'd also like a way to add the php header and side bar [08:57] i had a quick look at the .xsl stuff yesterday but couldnt figure anything out [08:57] mdke, the gradual move would allow us to rewrite the crap that exists now [08:58] we could do it in the makefile, just using simple shell commands but it won't be in all languages if needed. [08:58] mdke, we should also push for new moin versions, if at all possible [08:58] Burgundavia, also henrik thought that if we could show that it works for a few pages, mark would be more likely to abandon his "one wiki to rule them all" theory [08:58] Burgundavia, that would mean that spiv would have to write a new launchpad hack :) [08:59] but note that idea on the page [08:59] i don't think henrik has done the install yet [09:00] rob^, that would be a start... the makefile contains all languages [09:00] might be a little painful though === mdke nods [09:01] it is rather unprofessional to have those xinclude errors [09:01] yep [09:01] can we remove the licences? in any case there is the licence section at the beginning, with links to the online version? [09:01] mdke, noted ont he page [09:01] cool === Burgundavia laughs at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AzureusHowTo <-- the author added himself to category cleanup [09:02] hehe [09:02] i'm so totally opposed to a separate kubuntu wiki === mdke can't even begin to think how opposed he is [09:03] mdke, yes, I think kubuntu will gain more exposure on our wiki when we get it to negate the need for one [09:03] hope so [09:03] well there won't be any devel crap to clog it for one thing [09:04] and we can keep it neat and sorted better also [09:04] bbl [09:08] alternate wiki/doc proposal sent to the list... [09:10] thanks [09:11] Madpilot, the problem with your proposal is that we would require buyin from all the developers [09:11] it's another way of getting what rob^ just refered to as "devel crap" out of the way of the docs regular users actually use... [09:11] moving our docs is probably going to be easier, socially [09:11] Burgundavia: the MOTUs and devs and such are far more involved, and easier to reach (I'd assume) [09:12] we will talk about it at UBZ, but I don't expect miracles [09:12] also, your point about "breakages and frustrated users" needs examples [09:13] also I like our proposal because it would mean having static and wiki docs in the same place [09:13] and maybe even searchable together [09:13] mdke: the best example I can think of is ubotu - heavily used on #ubuntu and filled with hundreds of wiki links, all of which will break or need redirects [09:13] the redirects are not a big issue [09:14] we can also lock the pages so that they cannot be edited on wiki.u.c [09:14] sure they will need redirects, but redirects will not break [09:14] http://ubuntu.cc.com.au <-- ubotu's database, which is currently 529 items long, many/most of them wiki.u.c links [09:14] i've tried to address the issue of breaking links in that spec [09:14] Madpilot, that will change gradually, as with human peoples' bookmarks... but we can make sure the links don't break [09:16] the longer we leave the issue, the worse it is going to get [09:17] ok i'm going to work [09:17] Burgundavia: agreed - I'm just not convinced that abandoning wiki.u.c is actually the right answer [09:17] later, mdke [09:17] Madpilot, people don't expect the "wiki" link to lead them to docs [09:17] they would follow a "help" tab [09:18] and the wiki would return to being a "brainstorming area" for devel and community [09:18] I guess - I'm likely overestimating the # of people who know what a "wiki" is, even amongst Linux users ;) [09:18] yes [09:19] the term wiki is mostly only known to people who edit on them frequently [09:19] most readers at WP probably don't even know that they can edit === thugfucker [n=thugfuck@209.210.48.57] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:23] hmm [09:23] he has such a nice name [09:25] ubotu is a minor issue, it can be changed [09:25] needs a cleanout anyway [09:26] everyone elses links are the problem [09:27] what if wiki.u.c pointed to our wiki and the other wiki to devwiki.u.c or something? [09:35] rob^: that's pretty much my proposal. [09:36] anyway, I'm going to crash, it's been a long day in a long week - and it's only Wednesday... :( [09:36] later, all [09:37] night, I need to work early tomorrow === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ hopes the marketing team will go the way of nun sooner rather then later [10:14] I wonder if its the same people? [10:15] (it feels that way) [10:17] does anyone else have a problem with "New User Literature"? [10:20] you have too many problems [10:20] they just need a little guidance in the right direction :) [10:21] I'm happy to work with people, but guidance yes [10:21] i can't believe they started a new forum, that is such crack === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:21] yep [10:21] part of whats annoying about it [10:21] and reading it is even more crack [10:22] ok we need to sort out these xincludes [10:22] have you read the licence? [10:22] is it ok for us to just include the weblink and not the whole licence? [10:22] I'll reread to be sure [10:23] I think the GFDL might have to include a copy iirc [10:23] the only other thing I can think of is to try and include them as entities [10:23] and see if that breaks the translations [10:24] you definatly need a copy of the GFDL, see http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html (How to use this License for your documents) [10:24] ok [10:24] "To use this License in a document you have written, include a copy of the License in the document..." [10:26] as for the CC-BY-SA: [10:26] "You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier for, this License with every copy..." [10:26] hmm [10:26] ok [10:27] so we need at least the gfdl [10:27] so the CC-BY-SA is covered by the licence page (there is a link) [10:27] but yes we need a copy of the gfdl still [10:28] well we might as well get em both in [10:28] but how? [10:28] this may need to change on our Credits and License page though: "Copies of these licenses are available in the appendices section of this book." === mdke goes looking for help [10:29] it then goes on to give urls for the licences so the cc-by-sa is covered [10:29] rob^, well if we have to put in one, we might as well put em both in [10:29] yeah [10:29] maybe #docbook can help? [10:29] good idea [10:37] not much luck hey === Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.72] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:38] you need to wait a while in these sort of channels [10:38] mdke, got a minute? [10:39] yes [10:39] when i'm translating the faqguide, i note that some of the applications is not translated yet into my language, should i translate presuming, that the app already translated into my language or not? [10:40] i don't know, that is up to you [10:41] bbs [10:41] ok, one more thing still with the faqguide, i sometimes see Synaptic and Synaptic, which one is the correct one for later use? [10:42] dude you leave EVERYTHING in exactly as it is [10:42] you only translate the bit in the middle [10:42] translating the tag itself will break the guide [10:43] yup i know [10:43] i just find it not having a consistency in tags [10:43] cmiiw [10:43] you don't need to worry about that [10:43] just leave them as they are [10:44] ok then === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:44] the answer judax gave you yesterday is correct [10:45] ciao enrico [10:47] mdke: ciao! [10:47] :) === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:32] mdke, does this make any sense to you? http://sources.redhat.com/ml/docbook-apps/2005-q2/msg00056.html [11:33] yeah i was looking at that too [11:33] no it doesn't :) [11:33] heh dam [11:33] gives us some kind of idea [11:35] maybe it means that we need to build the legal files first [11:35] http://www.w3.org/TR/xinclude/#processing [11:35] http://www.w3.org/TR/xinclude [11:35] thats the w3c recommendation on it === jsgotangco [i=jsgotang@202.138.169.163] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:37] 3.1 [11:39] ../../../common/C/ccbysa.xml <- is that where the document is included on the server, I wonder if its just putting in this link? [11:40] also this might be useful (its slow to load): http://216.239.63.104/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fcafe.elharo.com%2Fxml%2Fxinclude%2F&btnG=Search&meta=lr%3Dlang_en [11:40] its an intro to xincludes [11:40] the address ../../../common etc is correct [11:42] its puting the xi:includes in as is (without the options): <xi:include></xi:include><xi:include></xi:include> [11:42] I wonder why this is? [11:43] must be the fallback on error [11:43] are we making the html from branch, if so whats the makefile and command to make it? [11:44] the makefile is in gnome, command is make faq-C or whatever language you prefer [11:45] i'm gonna try moving the Makefile to generic/ [11:45] no, that doesn't work either [11:46] it must be something to do with the path to the legal docs === frans-th [n=frans@202.155.120.89] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:46] I have an idea I'm gonna try, let me eat my pancakes first then I'll try it === frans-th [n=frans@202.155.120.89] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === jsgotangco [i=jsgotang@202.138.169.163] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [12:30] something I've discovered: if you put --xinclude in the Makefire for the xsltproc commands, the xincludes dont appear in red [12:32] got it!!! [12:33] yay [12:33] mdke, I have a fix [12:33] what is it? [12:33] commiting it now [12:33] what is it first? [12:34] add --xinclude to xlstproc in makefile [12:34] ah that sounds nice [12:35] and it looks exactly as it should :) [12:35] yay [12:36] now to go through and add it for all languages [12:36] nice one rob^ [12:37] man that took all my google skills [12:37] I found an online manpage to xlstproc [12:38] by chance mind you [12:38] use find/replace for the languages [12:38] (yes I could have done man xsltproc, but I found this first) [12:42] does it matter if the replace added --xinclude to every xsltproc command? [12:45] i don't know, perhaps test a build of another document, but I doubt it [12:46] about ubuntu builds fine with it [12:46] cool [12:47] commit away then [12:47] oops I spelt xsltproc wrong on the log statement, no biggie though === mdke tests [12:49] cool/good [12:49] fantastic [12:49] nice one [12:49] :) [12:49] ok bed time now [12:49] cya mdke [12:50] night, and thanks [12:50] np === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:20] jjesse: ping [03:21] judax ping back [03:21] hey, the adept guide is at a point where I would like some other eyes to start taking a look at it and provide ideas, suggestions, etc [03:22] it should build as well [03:22] judax: i can take a look this evening [03:22] judax: do you know how to change the makefile to build it? [03:22] jjesse: yes, already done [03:22] judax: awesome then i'll build it and read it when i'm done w/ work [03:22] jjesse: it builds now [03:23] jjesse: just the fugly css however [03:23] maybe Riddell can add a kde style sheet like he did for the other guides [03:23] that would be nice, I would be willing to help with that but I dont know where that kde-web css lives [03:24] according to Riddell its super secret :) [03:24] jjesse: would like to run the doc by the developer too, but need to have it previewed somewhere, like h.u.c, but we have the css issue [03:25] jjesse: hehe, I heard him say that in the docteam mtg [03:26] he should be able to view at the web svn location [03:26] have you contacted mornfall [03:26] not yet [03:29] jjesse: but at the web svn location would he have to just look at the raw xml? [03:30] judax: yeah it would be raw xml [03:30] jjesse: kinda hard to read that [03:30] judax: agreed, so then i think mdke needs to upload it to doc.ubuntu.com [03:31] jjesse: agreed, so we need to css thing fixed then [03:31] jjesse: so mdke will upload [03:31] judax: i think mdke is the one who has access to the server to do the upload [03:32] ping mdke [03:32] jjesse: yes, but he said he was not uploading any kubuntu docs until they were de-uglified [03:32] judax: ah so we need to get Riddell to get that stylesheet applied, did you see the message i sent him ? [03:32] judax: i copied you into the email i think [03:32] jjesse: yes, I saw the message [03:36] hello? [03:36] ah [03:36] mdke did you read scroll? [03:37] yeah reading [03:37] still need the deuglifying to be done afaics [03:37] once we get that done, you cn upload right? [03:38] sure [03:38] i'm uploading released docs only [03:38] to help.ubuntu.com [03:38] works in progress in trunk will go to doc.ubuntu.com [03:40] that sounds good [03:40] yeah i think that is what we were looking for [03:40] btw, what happened to the stylesheet for kubuntu docs? They never used to look this bad [03:41] ping me when you have something in branches/breezy buildable with the stylesheet [03:41] granted it wasn't the kde-web style, but that should not matter [03:41] judax: you talking about the release notes? [03:41] and about-kubuntu? [03:42] jjesse: well, yes and no, I understand that the kde-web stylesheet was used for release to breezy, but I am talking about the general building of docs out of the repo [03:43] jjesse: they are uglier than they used to be [03:44] mdke: we are needing a preview of the adept user guide and we are hoping it can be pushed to breezy, but that is not confirmed [03:45] getting a totally new doc in as an -update would be a bit odd [03:45] but then kubuntu doesn't seem to have such strict policies as Ubuntu [03:47] agreed, but the switch from kynaptic to adept in breezy may warrant it, hard to say [03:48] i can do a preview now [03:48] ok, that would be great [03:49] is there a make target for it? [03:49] if not, put it in make kall pls [03:49] opps, I just added a section for aug (make aug), forgot about make kall, I will go fix that [03:50] aug? [03:50] ah [03:50] adeptuser guie [03:50] yes, make aug is it, kug was taken, :) [03:50] or kag i mean [03:51] shit [03:52] the server is having some issues [03:52] matt@hudson:~$ ping google.com [03:52] ping: unknown host google.com [03:52] how the hell can I ssh in [03:53] hmm, you lose connection? [03:53] no i can ssh in fine [03:53] must be their nameserver or something [03:55] interesting [03:56] I just added aug to kall and committed [03:57] thanks [03:57] i'll stick up a preview when the server is sorted === mdke reboots it [03:59] still not working [03:59] pos [04:01] ok, thanks === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-183-124.bas504.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ompaul wonders if there would be value in seeking docs.ubuntu.com and mapping it to doc.ubuntu.com [04:05] how come? [04:09] because in the mind of some, like me :) doc and "docs" are what I read and I don't mean .doc [04:10] it just seems kind of obvious to have the two [04:11] that make sense? [04:14] sort of [04:14] but we are ubuntu-doc [04:14] and that is our website [04:14] the docs are to be found at help.ubuntu.com [04:15] hmmm....is there a wiki person here? [04:15] i thought you were a wiki person? [04:16] i am [04:16] judax, ping [04:16] just i need to check something [04:16] spayne, then, the answer is yes [04:16] mdke: pong [04:16] judax, do you know what package I need to build kde docs? [04:16] error is warning: failed to load external entity "/usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/kde-chunk.xsl" [04:16] mdke: you would ask that [04:16] mdke: i am redoing the iFolder Wiki docs as the current ones do evil things like alien packages [04:16] just do a dpkg -S on that file for me, would ya? [04:16] mdke: so i have done some new kickass docs on compiling it and info. on future packages [04:17] mdke: is it alright to delete the old stuff? [04:17] mdke: they build on my system so I have the right packages, let me do some checking real quick [04:17] mdke: as we shouldn't be encouraging people to alien packages [04:17] spayne, you are working on the same page right? [04:17] jjesse: unless jjesse knows real quick [04:17] judax, dpkg -S /usr/share/apps/ksgmltools2/customization/kde-chunk.xsl [04:17] checking real quick, i'll have to do the dkpg [04:17] is all I need [04:17] see build-deps in kde/debian/control [04:18] grin Riddell to the resuce [04:18] thanks [04:18] s/rescue [04:18] mdke: i have done three docments, iFolder, Building_iFolder and BuildingSimpleServer but somoneelse has done a document on hwo to alien RPMs for iFolder which is wrong. can i delete that one? [04:18] spayne, did you read WikiGuide? === spayne will read it again as he has probally mised something [04:19] read the bit about deleting pages [04:20] mdke: kdelibs-data [04:20] mdke: shall i just put a redirection in then? [04:20] lol [04:20] yeah got it judax [04:20] oh, ok, sorry [04:20] spayne, the best thing is to just have the one page [04:20] i would say [04:20] mdke: well, iFolder is like the central page and the other pages are for the other products [04:21] mdke: but the iFolderHowto page is evil :) [04:21] I guess I could follow along :) [04:21] judax, if you fancy tidying up the kfaq stuff in the makefile, that would rock too [04:21] the adept guide should probably be in KDE svn [04:21] spayne, resolve the links and delete the page after that [04:22] mdke: woo! thanks [04:22] mdke: bugger! i can't log in :( [04:22] true [04:22] mdke: ok, I will take a look at that [04:22] mdke: i better wait but thanks for your help [04:23] launchpad is also down [04:23] Riddell, judax, http://doc.ubuntu.com/kde/adeptguide/C/ [04:24] erm gpl? [04:24] mdke: very cool, thx [04:24] btw that seems to have a good stylesheet [04:24] yes, I noticed that [04:24] the style sheet that is [04:25] need to discuss the license and accout for possible upstream [04:25] this was just based off the kynaptic template, so I just left it there, whatever needs to be done is cool [04:25] how come the stuff in branch doesn't have that nice stylesheet? [04:26] that is what I was asking jjesse about, something is different/changed and I am not sure what [04:26] ok cool ping me when it's sorted :) [04:27] judax: i don't know, Riddell did you change the style sheet in build? [04:27] oh no, about kubuntu is boned in trunk and branch [04:27] adept has the nice ones [04:27] mdke: if i go to doc.ubuntu.com/kde the links to the docs still go to the page that froud made for preview and aren't current [04:28] mdke: that whole page needs help [04:28] i'll bin that [04:28] thanks [04:28] http://doc.ubuntu.com/kde [04:28] but you need to fix it [04:28] because that comes from the makefile in trunk/kde [04:28] ok [04:28] do a local build and see for yourself [04:28] about kubuntu and release notes use the kde stylesheet [04:28] in branches/build [04:29] but not in trunk/kde [04:29] gah [04:29] jjesse, the problem is in trunk. Sean wrote the Makefile, which produces that index.html you are complaining about === judax head is starting to spin like a top [04:30] mdke: ok i'll tackle it [04:30] adding to list [04:30] jjesse: the adept preview looks good however [04:30] i'll bin everything on doc.ubuntu.com except for adept [04:31] and I'll make a link for it too [04:32] judax, are the screenshots in the adeptguide folder itself, or in ../images? [04:32] mdke: they are in ../adeptguide/C/figures [04:33] right [04:34] you've got the navigation icons and so on there too right? [04:34] oh no [04:34] damn [04:35] I am looking at the adept preview you just pushed and it looks good, got the nav icons and such, that what you mean? [04:35] the nav icons are in kde/images/C/etc [04:36] i need to upload that folder too [04:36] i just deleted it [04:39] opps [04:41] ok better [04:41] :) [04:44] i made you a sidebar link at doc.ubuntu.com too [04:48] very cool, thx [04:49] what does S mean by a file in svn status? [04:50] hmm switched [04:51] sounds bad [04:54] judax, ping [04:54] mdke: yes [04:54] can you svn up in trunk for me and go to generic/gfaqguide and tell me if it is working ok? [04:55] scrap the g [04:55]