=== Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.72] has joined #ubuntu-doc === _native_ [n=user@cpe-66-87-4-181.ut.sprintbbd.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-55-50.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === the--dud [n=moo@182.80-203-117.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:07] phew, writing up https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommandlineHowto proved to be a slightly bigger task than I'd think... have to stretch it across two days >_< === _native_ [n=user@cpe-66-87-4-181.ut.sprintbbd.net] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] [02:12] heh [02:13] let's just hope it proves useful after all the work ^_^ [02:13] the--dud, that could be useful for the Ubuntu Server Guide [02:13] good one [02:13] :) [02:14] let's hope I find the time to get it done tomorrow then [02:14] sure, we only started work ourselves on the server guide~24 hours ago [02:17] really? wasn't aware [02:17] yeah, we split it from the Starter Guide [02:17] who's developing the server release btw? don't suppose they'd need some help from a small hacker.... [02:18] ask in #ubuntu-devel, someone there can help you out :) [02:19] already in there, pretty dead now with UBZ commencing soon-ish [02:20] everyone will be flying and what not [02:20] yeah, way way too far away for the little norwegian student known as myself [02:21] tell me about it.. [02:21] almost 1/3rd around the globe [02:21] I'm in au, too far to swim.. [02:21] that'd be an understatement :p [02:22] at least you had the down under conf close by [02:22] yeah [02:22] yet to be in Europe I think [02:24] ciao all [02:27] hiya Kinnison === karlheg [n=karlheg@host-250-237.resnet.pdx.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === karlheg [n=karlheg@host-250-237.resnet.pdx.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=ubuntu@59.92.32.194] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:58] bhuvan, ping [04:58] yes [04:58] you need to sign up to the the ubuntu-doc-commits mailing list [04:59] oh, ok [04:59] i'll [04:59] I fixed the problem in your first patch several hours ago [04:59] ok :) [04:59] cool [04:59] thanks [04:59] np. how about my another patch for sidebar.inc.php ? [05:02] which directory is sidebar.php? [05:02] sidebar.inc.php [05:03] teamstuff/doc.ubuntu.com/sidebar.inc.php [05:03] imo, it has been added by mdke just couple of hrs back [05:04] no your one is different [05:05] ? [05:06] your patch adds three links yes? [05:06] correct [05:06] it hasn't been commited yet, hang on [05:06] ok === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:33] hi Madpilot [05:33] grr [05:33] hi mgalvin [05:33] bloody patch [05:35] hey rob^ [05:35] long time no see [05:35] how have you been? [05:35] yea, hows it going [05:35] just been busy with life in general [05:36] i am finally getting some of my free time back [05:36] cool === rob^ points at Yelp [05:36] hopefully i can start working on some docs again [05:36] it got renamed to the starter guide, but the faq guide is in there with breezy :) [05:37] good to hear [05:37] we decided to split the faq guide into a desktop starter guide and a server guide for dapper [05:37] neat, i was just reading that thread [05:38] rob^: thankx for the commit [05:38] i just sat down this evening to catch up of whats been going on [05:38] bhuvan, np [05:38] rob^, by the way, great job seeing the guide through to completion for breezy [05:39] thanks :) [05:43] ah fuck don't tell me I just deleted doc.u.c.. [05:43] fcking gay subversion [05:46] hmm the logs don't say I did.. [05:53] rob^: subversion is good ;) [05:53] 'patch -p0 < patch_file' would apply the patch, imo! [05:54] yeah [05:54] I'm just wondering whats going on with doc.u.c [05:54] ok ok [06:03] hmm maybe the merge of branch back into trunk broke it [06:36] hi all [06:38] hey Madpilot [06:40] what's wrong with doc.u.c? All that shows is the kde directory - no index page, nada [06:42] yeah I know [06:42] mdke will have to sought it on on linode [06:44] s/sought/sort === Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.72] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:04] going on vacation. will be back on nov 02 2005 === rob__ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^laptop [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob__ [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^laptop [n=rob@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:14] wow, just remembered (via a chat on #ubuntu) what a horrific mess all the dialup modem stuff is in the wiki... [09:15] nobody on the docteam actually uses dialup, I guess... ;) === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke arives [11:59] oh great [12:02] ? [12:02] just reading the last email from sebastiano mestre === mdke takes a few deep breaths [12:03] ? [12:03] on the list? [12:03] yeah === rob^ doesn't see it [12:03] marketing thread [12:04] on the doc mailing list? [12:04] yeah [12:04] btw rob^ I caught you using the term "admin guide" again... i think we need to spec the guide out before making any changes: it's important we get the division between the docs just right [12:04] otherwise we might end up losing material or duplicating it [12:04] oh? [12:04] where did I do that? [12:05] DocteamProjects [12:05] i watch your every move o.o [12:05] have a hack at this: [12:05] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide [12:05] let's see if we can get an outline [12:08] I set up a Desktop Guide spec page today too if you noticed.. [12:08] ah awesome [12:08] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopStarterGuideSpec [12:08] moved from FAQGuide? [12:08] I've also been hacking on the desktop guide for a bit [12:09] no [12:09] might put a redirect or something.. [12:09] ok cool [12:10] so you want to do a table of contents for the server guide? [12:10] i think it would help get clear where we are gonna go [12:10] plenty of time though [12:10] (oh I removed a lot of server stuff from the desktop guide too today) [12:11] yeah i saw [12:11] we also need to sort out this ccbysa business [12:11] I've fixed it already [12:11] no, you uncommented my comments from yesterday :) [12:11] ? [12:11] it validates ok [12:12] what does? [12:12] at least in the desktop guide [12:12] exactly [12:12] ccbysa.xml [12:12] so whats the problem? [12:12] i commented it out as a quick workaround because kquickguide wasn't building, but in doing so I broke desktopguide [12:12] now, your revert means that kquickguide still isn't building [12:12] i'm not sure the reason... [12:12] we need to find a situation where everything works :D [12:12] must be a problem with the kquickguide, the desktop guide is fine with it [12:13] possibly a problem with inconsistent headers between the licence and some of the docs [12:14] odd [12:14] get the author to xinclude the ccbysa.xml as I've done in the faq guide [12:15] yes, although that is a bit of a workaround too [12:15] we need to have a good look at stuff [12:15] no, that is the exact way to do it [12:15] erm [12:15] entities should work too [12:15] you can do a whole document using xincludes if you want [12:15] they do [12:16] eg the cc entitiy didn't work when you commented out the header because it wasn't including global.ent [12:16] does now [12:17] well the entities in the kquickguide don't work [12:17] check this out: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/network-administrator/ [12:17] if you know how to fix it, tel me! [12:18] I'll take a look later :) [12:18] this has some intresting stuff too: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/system-administrator/ [12:19] nice [12:19] i'll bookmark em [12:19] gtg now, bbl [12:19] finally: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/users-guide/users-guide.en.html [12:19] that last one is huge [12:19] ok bye === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Kaiser@ppp208-158.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === joachim-n [n=joachim-@ACC82F14.ipt.aol.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:27] hi [12:28] hi joachim-n [12:28] mdke, I just saw you reverted my edit to the UserDocumentation wiki page [12:51] right, which was that? [12:52] ah yes [12:52] Metacity? [12:52] joachim-n, the reason was that it led to an empty page [12:53] we don't add guides to that page until they are well developed [12:53] ok [12:53] in the case of "Metacity" there was no content [12:54] but the user docs do suffer from strucutral problems [12:54] they don't explain the basics [12:54] eg, is there a page that explains the user preferences? [12:55] I don't know [12:55] mdke, I've made a few edits to ServerGuide on the wiki [12:56] wicked [12:56] plucked some keywords from the mcse course I did ages ago.. [12:57] :) === joachim-n [n=joachim-@ACC82F14.ipt.aol.com] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [12:59] (I just did a brain dump) === mdke will look [01:04] hang on [01:06] ok [01:07] so you never got those mails about the marketing team? [01:07] I got the one from sebadtiano mestre [01:08] ah [01:08] i've continued off list with him [01:08] we argue better in Italian :) [01:08] I really do doubt any of them have even seen docbook.. [01:08] heh [01:08] lovely [01:11] rob^ [01:12] is it cool if I rename that wiki page to DesktopGuide [01:12] yeah sure [01:12] just for the sake of consistency [01:12] i'll fix links [01:12] np === rob^ just added more to the ServerGuide page [01:13] we should split the preface stuff out [01:14] how come that is inline in the doc? [01:14] from memory I had to change some stuff to make sense for the faq guide [01:14] hmm [01:15] i think we should definitely share that love [01:15] yeah [01:15] I think I didn't want to break things for other docs at the time.. [01:15] hmm LOTR is on [01:16] ooh [01:16] which one? [01:16] my gf went to italy today so I need to watch some films [01:16] nr 2 I think [01:17] bit odd the havn't played number 1 on tv first [01:17] its kind of like picking up a book, choosing a page at random to start from then not reading the ending [01:18] you've seen it right? [01:18] yeah [01:18] ahhhh [01:18] i can't get enough of it [01:18] i love the easy to watch films [01:19] yeah I don't mind it [01:19] can we change the time of the meeting next week? [01:19] pretty long though, I'm usually pretty pissed at the end of three hours [01:19] lol [01:20] mmm beer [01:20] always having the meeting at 1400UTC is an issue for me [01:20] oh [01:20] well I'm happy to make it earlier [01:20] 1400 is like midnight for me [01:20] *cough* later [01:20] something like 2100? [01:20] 22? [01:20] any later then that and I'm catching some z's [01:21] when does the next day start? [01:21] umm.. thats 7/8am my time [01:21] on saturday [01:21] bit early === mdke considers 23 [01:21] yeah [01:21] i think the CC does 23 [01:22] that will work for me usually unless I have plans on the saturday.. [01:22] yeah but in the middle of the week, I'm at work :( [01:22] yeah well friday nights or weekends are good for me [01:22] actually they haven't got back to me about the timing of the next cc meeting yet [01:22] anyway a reasonable rotation should make everyone happy [01:22] yeah [01:23] sorry about nuking the preview server yesterday btw [01:23] typo :) [01:23] they want me to become a member of the cc [01:23] heh [01:23] you mean an Ubuntu member [01:24] a member of the CC would put you in a group of 4 [01:24] yeah I thought so, I commited a patch to the svn and thought I broke everything, then spent the next half an hour wondering what I done [01:24] no, it was my cron jobs nuking everything [01:24] I dunno, I just got an email about CC + some kind of membership the other day [01:24] i will do rsync from now on [01:25] to my work email no less [01:26] :) [01:26] segfault, ping? [01:27] any thoughts on that outline I just did for serverguide? [01:27] ah i haven't had a proper look yet [01:27] oh ok np [01:27] i need to get a better working knowledge of the Starter guide [01:28] I just went nuts on the outline, so you don't really need to know the starter guide to get the gist of it [01:28] k [01:29] what is the status of a kubuntu starter guide? [01:29] well I'm not sure, I offered to start work on it, but was told by the kubuntu guys to let them go first [01:31] ok [01:31] i think they still need to sort out what docs they are gonna write for dapper so we'll let them decide that [01:31] yeah, I'm not gonna step on their toes [01:33] whoosh [01:33] that outline looks good [01:33] is there a "root and sudo" section in the desktop guide too? [01:33] theres a system administarion section we can take info on [01:34] one of the questions is about sudo that we can expand on [01:34] yeah we need to have prominent information about "root" [01:34] it is something Ubuntu does badly IMO [01:34] yep, thats what I thought [01:34] spec looks great [01:34] cool [01:35] only comment I would have is that I would envisage trying to make it a little more accessible for a new user [01:35] probably via the titles [01:35] yeah but you cant make a server guide too newbie friendly [01:35] then most admins will just dismiss it [01:35] rob^, don't forget that we might just be talking about a guy who wants a desktop with apache [01:36] he'll setup his desktop with the desktop guide [01:36] then he'll want to be able to find "webserver" in the server guide [01:36] yeah but thats pretty rare [01:36] nah, that's real common [01:36] for most things like webmin and whatever its already set up [01:36] basically what it comes down to is this IMO [01:36] making it clear that the server guide is not just for people who install ubuntu server [01:37] it can also be for people who run a desktop but want to learn basic services like http or ftp or ssh [01:38] don't you think? [01:38] sure but you still need to add some terminology and substance [01:39] yeah [01:39] we need a way to have the stuff that a new user would look for to be accessible [01:39] i think it can all be done in the structure and titles [01:40] yeah well that was a brain dump comming from a full time system admin [01:40] ahh [01:40] is that what you do eh [01:40] umm err no.. [01:40] no wonder that outline is so l33t [01:41] you've ruined the "spy" idea for me though [01:41] hehe [01:42] but yeah [01:45] no pdf hey? [01:46] well have we ever produced any pdfs for our guides? [01:47] no, but a pdf of the server guide would be pretty nice [01:47] yeah ok let's do it [01:47] give people something to print etc [01:48] sure [01:48] no reason why not [01:48] exp considering they don't have yelp or the like [01:48] just a command line + guide in hand [01:49] lovely! [01:49] :) [01:49] you sound like a gentoo user [01:49] heck no! [01:50] avoiding the gentoo install look (switching between virtual terminals to read the guide and type the command) is what its all about [01:51] hmm [01:51] my printer is busted [01:51] i like gentoo :) [01:52] and yet you let .debs soften you up? [01:53] yeah [01:53] weak! [01:53] gentoo is inherently buggy by its release process [01:53] and I was spending too much time on administering my system [01:54] the idea of compiling everything for hardly any if at all speed gain seems kind of pointless to me [01:54] it's not for speedgain [01:54] its the extra control you get over what to build and what not to build [01:54] I'd rather just apt-get, make a coffee and come back to a useable system again [01:55] indeed [01:55] i've converted my home server to Ubuntu too [01:55] if I wanted that control I'd just grab the debian source package and compile it then, hardly ever do you need it [01:55] i'm 100% ubuntu friendly [01:56] ahhh, if you're gonna compile, it's all about gentoo [01:56] portage is the best [01:56] I have a freebsd friend trying to convince me ports is even better [01:57] argh === mdke discovers a way to rescue lost pages in Moin [01:57] eureka [01:57] but the question is, do you really want to? [01:57] it's a pain when people delete pages accidentally [01:58] mmm random acts of deleteage [01:58] I'm not sure if thats actually a word though :) [02:00] hehe that freak on lotr with the split personality is on tv [02:04] we also need to find a way to include the help.u.c headerlogo into all our built docs [02:04] that would be nice [02:05] and doc.u.c on the preview ones [02:05] the big brown thing? [02:05] yeah [02:05] make them look like part of the site? [02:05] exactly [02:05] don't you think? [02:05] I think we need to add proper anchors to the html too [02:05] yeah [02:05] see [02:05] http://help.ubuntu-it.org/guidabreezy/index.html [02:06] i did that by hand though :/ [02:06] oh yeah, that looks good [02:07] how did you get the revision history at the bottom? [02:09] hmm some things broke in the translation [02:09] eg. application os="gnome">Synaptic [02:10] yeah [02:10] known bug [02:11] i moved the revision history manually [02:11] we really need a proper help tab on the main ubuntu site too [02:11] yes [02:11] that will hopefully come if we get the wiki moved [02:12] the one on the italian site looks good and makes help.u.c flow nicely [02:12] :) [02:13] we added the Guide one yesterday [02:14] I think not the help.u.c header, the main site header [02:14] for all of it, just adding documentation team on the doc.u.c site [02:14] the help.u.c should be a main page [02:15] we'll see how it goes [02:15] that quite frankly would rock [02:15] yeah [02:15] something to aim for in time for dapper [02:16] i'm discussing it with henrik and he is keen [02:16] good [02:16] it will take some time though [02:16] first thing is to get the wiki there [02:16] yeah [02:17] well I'm going to go watch the rest of the lotr movie and hit the sack [02:17] cya mdke [02:19] bye mate === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.210] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:22] hello [05:37] hi jsgotangco [05:37] how's it going? [05:39] not bad i got to steal some time again now [05:39] hehe [05:40] :) [05:40] i'm playing with planet [05:40] http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/ [05:41] feedback pls [05:42] what about hackergotchi stuff? [05:45] i think that can be floated in the top right of each post [05:46] what do you think? [05:46] or should it be on the left? [05:46] i personally have no hackergotchi [05:47] well your peers would probably like one [05:47] although it would look strangely too much like planet gnome... [05:48] sure I have nothing against them [05:48] it's just a question of where to put them [05:49] the left is most appropriate i guess [05:50] where is ubuntupeople hosted? a private server? [05:50] not sure [06:25] who revision 1999 [06:26] heh [06:26] quick! === mdke tries to make a hackergotchi === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-50-231.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke has made his first hackergotchi [07:40] mdke: hackergotchi, that's the pics on launchpad, right? [07:40] with a bloody mousepad no less [07:41] highvoltage, i think it means any picture of your head [07:41] hard to cut out your head with a synaptics touchpad [07:41]