[12:02] <Riddell> I'll make a mental note to review it
[12:06] <linlin> ctorrent is an easy build, so its probally easy to add
[12:43] <dfarning> Any package suggestions for a new Ubutu builder I got checked out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates I like and use jedit it that too tought for first go round?
[12:44] <dfarning> I've done some rpm packaging of java stuff but it was a big pain in the butt!
[12:49] <Kyral> Java is a pain to begin with
[12:49] <Kyral> oh wait....I'm crashing tonight ;P
[12:52] <dfarning> I'm interested in jedit because it is the editor of choice at my local tech college for all the intr classes
[12:55] <dfarning> I thought if I can insure that all the schools apps are present I'll have a  better time getting them to dual boot the computer labs;)
[12:55] <minghua_> dfarning: does jedit build with a free java stack?
[12:57] <dfarning> minghua_: I have not yet tried it. I do know  there is a native jedit in fc4 so it can be done.
[12:58] <crimsun> probably similar to how eclipse-platform was handled
[12:58] <minghua_> dfarning: that sound encouraging
[01:00] <dfarning> very similar native .so are built and distributed while exensions can be download and under gcj
[01:03] <minghua_> I don't know much about java, but I suppose if it can be built with free java stack, it has a good chance
[01:03] <minghua_> a lot of people are trying to build java stuff for debian as well
[01:03] <minghua_> so maybe asking there first would be wise
[01:04] <dfarning> I'll give it a shot.  I'll see what I can find out at debian.
[01:44] <LaserJock> ajmitch: ping?
[02:03] <hub> I have a question about the kernel source package
[02:03] <hub> because I'm evaluating the packaging a useful tool
[02:03] <hub> sysprof
[02:03] <hub> that requires it
[02:05] <crimsun> linux-source-2.6.12 (Breezy), linux-source-2.6.10 (Hoary), linux-source-2.6.8.1 (Warty)
[02:05] <hub> yep but that install a tar.gz
[02:05] <hub> or something
[02:05] <hub> /usr/src/linux-source-2.6.12.tar.bz2
[02:06] <crimsun> yes, untar it
[02:06] <crimsun> that's the entire tree with the Ubuntu patches applied
[02:06] <hub> yes, but I'm thinking packaging wise
[02:07] <hub> sysprof needs an extracted kernel tree
[02:07] <crimsun> it needs the entire tree?
[02:07] <crimsun> not just the headers?
[02:07] <hub> apparently
[02:07] <hub> not that sure
[02:08] <crimsun> that would be fairly nasty to package
[02:08] <hub> just the headers apparently
[02:08] <crimsun> oh, that's not bad then
[02:09] <crimsun> you can just roll a source package, ala oprofile-source, fuse-source, alsa-source, etc.  Basically, *-source
[02:09] <crimsun> The user will apt-get install foo-source and module-assistant
[02:10] <hub> linux-kernel-headers package does not match the linux-kernel package version
[02:10] <crimsun> linux-kernel-headers is not what you think it is
[02:10] <hub> ah
[02:10] <crimsun> you want linux-headers-$(uname -r)
[02:10] <crimsun> l-k-h is part of the toolchain
[02:10] <hub> right
[02:11] <hub> I'll try that
[02:11] <hub> which compiler is used to build the kernel?
[02:11] <hub> gcc-3.4?
[02:12] <crimsun> yes
[03:02] <robertj> heya all. Dia defaults anti-aliasing to off, but it should probably be on. Additionally, there probably isn't a reason to even have the menu item there to disable it. Any thoughts?
[03:02] <robertj> more than anything, I want to believe that deep down that option has a purpose
[03:04] <LaserJock> robertj: have you filed a bug report?
[03:08] <tritium> hi all
[03:08] <LaserJock> hi tritium
[03:08] <tritium> What's up, LaserJock ?
[03:09] <LaserJock> not much, trying to figure out some python-apt and working on a presentation for Tues. at school
[03:09] <crimsun> enjoying your Friday evening, Mike?
[03:11] <tritium> Yeah, how about you, crimsun?
[03:12] <crimsun> not bad. Sifting through some packaging. Yourself?
[03:12] <robertj> LaserJack: no, was asking first
[03:12] <robertj> Laser: just as to whether it was really even an issue
[03:13] <robertj> more interested really. From what I can tell that checkbox is purely historical from when it was to toggle on the "experimental crashy aa support" in 2002
[03:13] <crimsun> that's a question best posed to upstream
[03:14] <robertj> prolly
[03:14] <LaserJock> robertj: you can file a bug at https://launchpad.net/malone
[03:14] <tritium> okay, I'll ask upstream if they're enjoying their Friday evening ;)
[03:14] <LaserJock> then people can reject it or accept it
[03:14] <crimsun> tritium: :p
[03:14] <tritium> crimsun, took the dog for a hike in the mountains
[03:14] <crimsun> excellent!
[03:15] <tritium> It was nice to get away from work today.  :)
[03:15] <LaserJock> we got today off for Nevada Day, whoohoo!
[03:15] <tritium> nice
[03:16] <LaserJock> it was nice, but I had to get that grant proposal in and all the administrative staff were trying to leave
[03:17] <crimsun> man, you guys are lucky
[03:18] <LaserJock> crimsun: how so ?
[03:19] <crimsun> LaserJock: "Nevada Day"?
[03:20] <crimsun> we must not have any state pride or something :p
[03:20] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, I am originally from Montana and we didn't have anything like that either
[03:21] <LaserJock> I think maybe they are trying to compensate for something ;-)
[03:22] <tritium> I always thought Purdue was trying to compensate for something with their "world's largest drum"...
[03:22] <LaserJock> lol
[03:22] <tritium> So glad I never have to hear "Boiler Up" again...
[03:24] <\sh> moins
[03:26] <crimsun> moin
[03:26] <crimsun> how's Montreal?
[03:26] <hub> who is in mtl right now?
[03:28] <\sh> i fly in a couple of hours
[03:28] <crimsun> \sh: ah. Have a good flight!
[03:28] <tritium> \sh, are you the one who made tee shirts?
[03:29] <\sh> tritium: i wanted...but no chance to do so...because of no time to much work in the last weeks
[03:29] <hub> \sh: see you there
[03:29] <tritium> \sh, ah, okay.  I can relate
[03:30] <\sh> tritium: i thought after dapper I could do some fun stuff...but my company meant to have new ideas and new projects...:(
[03:30] <crimsun> well, enjoy UBZ nonetheless ;-)
[03:30] <tritium> \sh, :(  I also read your email that you can't take personal electronics to work.  I can also relate to that...
[03:31] <crimsun> tritium: yeah, I spent a summer in a similar position with Argonne
[03:31] <crimsun> though no doubt security at your lab is probably much more strict now
[03:31] <tritium> crimsun, yeah.  We're not even trusted with cell-phones, iPods, or anything, really.
[03:32] <\sh> tritium: well yes..this is the biggest disadvantage :( everything which looks like computer external cdburner etc. are not allowed anymore...nonetheless I can bring in my cam...
[03:32] <tritium> crimsun, you're going to UBZ too?
[03:32] <crimsun> tritium: nope, have lecture obligations
[03:33] <tritium> crimsun, ah, right
[03:33] <tritium> \sh, that's interesting that they'll allow a cam
[03:33] <\sh> tritium: no...they didn
[03:33] <\sh> 't allow
[03:33] <tritium> oh
[03:34] <\sh> they've not forbid the use of a cam ,)
[03:34] <tritium> ah
[03:35] <tritium> be back later...
[03:36] <chillywilly> lo
[03:36] <\sh> moins chillywilly
[04:01] <chillywilly> \sh: nice wiki ;)
[04:04] <\sh> chillywilly: which wiki?
[04:04] <\sh> uh ah..
[04:04] <\sh> dang...now I understand ,-) too early in the morning
[04:18] <dfarning> No love for a native jedit.  Gcj is still missing several swing methods that are needed.
[04:19] <dfarning> It will likely be awhile before they make into Ubuntu  gcj 4.1 or 4.2
[04:20] <dfarning> Is it useful / allowable to include packages the require either blackdown or sun java?
[04:21] <Kyral> Is there like a kernel option I need to enable to allow the kernel to open and close my CDROM drive?
[04:21] <Kyral> like the drive door?
[04:21] <Kyral> tray
[04:21] <Kyral> thing
[04:21] <crimsun> dfarning: no, it's impossible atm
[04:22] <crimsun> dfarning: cf. Azureus.
[04:22] <crimsun> Kyral: you could use 'eject'
[04:22] <Kyral> well, I mean for like K3B ;P
[04:23] <Kyral> and it complains sometimes, the kernel, at boot
[04:28] <dfarning> crimsun: is Azureus available somewhere, I don't see it in breezy or dapper?
[04:28] <crimsun> dfarning: that's why it's not available -- it depends on a commercial jre, which illustrates the situation that jedit is in
[04:29] <crimsun> dfarning: you might want to work with debian-java to get it working with gcj
[04:29] <Kyral> Couldn't we compile Azureus? I thought Java could be compiled into a binary independent of the JRE now
[04:30] <dfarning> crimsun:  The changes are too extensive to be practical atm
[04:30] <crimsun> Kyral: I don't understand what you're saying.
[04:30] <Kyral> I thought that they found a way to compile Java code into a binary that didn't need a JRE to run
[04:31] <dfarning> Kyral:  not all java functions are available yet in classpath
[04:31] <Kyral> ahh
[04:32] <Kyral> I don't know much about Java so
[04:32] <dfarning> somthing like 75% of the swing.text,* are missing
[04:33] <Kyral> Means nothing to me pal ;P
[04:34] <Kyral> I'm gonna assume that means that like a lib is missing ;P
[04:35] <dfarning> Something like a good sized chunk of gtk;)
[04:35] <Kyral> lol okay
[04:35] <Kyral> I'm prolly not gonna learn Java unless I have to
[04:35] <Kyral> I'd rather learn Python
[04:36] <LaserJock> Kyral: me too
[04:36] <Kyral> I just need a good resouice
[04:36] <dfarning> The schools stress java because several of the local banks and insurance companies use it
[04:36] <Kyral> Hey LJ hows it going?
[04:37] <LaserJock> Kyral: fine. you?
[04:37] <Kyral> eh okay
[04:37] <Kyral> College is running me into the ground
[04:37] <Kyral> At least Ubuntu Love is on Sunday :D
[04:38] <LaserJock> I can't wait to get out of grad school some days
[04:39] <LaserJock> Undergrad didn't seem so busy to me but maybe that's my old age showing ;-)
[04:39] <Kyral> I'm learning PHP in one of my classes
[04:40] <LaserJock> Kyral: cool, I wish I had taken some programming classes. I just have to learn it on my own
[04:40] <Kyral> I'm a CS Major, it comes with the territory
[04:41] <Kyral> Ironically its a business class I'm learning PHP in, a Senior level one
[04:41] <Kyral> The funny thing is this is prolly 80% of the class first time doing any programming on the level of PHP (as opposed to HTML)
[04:41] <LaserJock> PHP seems to be pretty popular these days
[04:42] <Kyral> Me, coming right from C++, I just learn the syntax of PHP and BAM!
[04:42] <Kyral> though the fact that you don't specify what data type a varible is kinda throws me
[04:42] <LaserJock> well, since I'm a scientist I got to learn Fortran first ;-)
[04:42] <Kyral> *shudder*
[04:42] <Kyral> Fortran...
[04:42] <LaserJock> we still use it for virtually everything
[04:43] <LaserJock> although I am trying to move more towards Python
[04:43] <Kyral> I figure I'll learn Python and Perl next
[04:43] <Kyral> since PHP was derived from Perl which was derived from C++
[04:44] <LaserJock> my boss pretty much uses Fortran and Perl exclusively with the occasional C if we need to talk to instruments
[04:44] <\sh> Kyral: what?
[04:44] <Kyral> \sh: Huh?
[04:44] <LaserJock> Perl was before C++ I thought
[04:44] <\sh> 04:43 < Kyral> since PHP was derived from Perl which was derived from C++
[04:44] <Kyral> og
[04:44] <Kyral> Perl was derived from C
[04:45] <Kyral> I think...
[04:45] <\sh> perl never is never was derived from c++
[04:45] <\sh> neither from C
[04:45] <Kyral> Hmm, one of my professors told me that
[04:45] <Kyral> then what is Perl derived from?
[04:45] <\sh> it was build, because C and other high lvl languages were to complicated for text operations
[04:45] <\sh> and php never was/is derived from perl
[04:46] <Kyral> hmm
[04:46] <Kyral> Remind me to smack my professor ;P
[04:46] <LaserJock> how much you paying for thos classes ;P
[04:46] <\sh> php (personal homepage processor) was build, because the author was in need of a dynamic generation of webpages, but not as CGI
[04:46] <Kyral> I don't care what they came from, I just like'em ;P
[04:47] <Kyral> \sh, you know a good online resource to learn Python?
[04:48] <LaserJock> Kyral: apt-get install diveintopython ?
[04:48] <\sh> Kyral: drpython and the python.org pages
[04:48] <\sh> http://de2.php.net/history
[04:49] <\sh>  PHP succeeds an older product, named PHP/FI. PHP/FI was created by Rasmus Lerdorf in 1995, initially as a simple set of Perl scripts for tracking accesses to his online resume. He named this set of scripts 'Personal Home Page Tools'.
[04:49] <Kyral> Yah so you could say that PHP was decended from Perl ;P
[04:50] <LaserJock> not operationally, but historically ?
[04:50] <\sh> hmm..better to say in was inspired by perl but not derived :)
[04:50] <Kyral> yah
[04:50] <\sh> the concepts are completly different...same applies to python and c++
[04:50] <Kyral> Isn't Python the preferred language for Ubuntu now?
[04:51] <\sh> yes..mark is a python fanatic :)
[04:51] <Kyral> Hey if its good enough for the SDBDFL(Did I get that right?) its good enough for me ;P
[04:51] <\sh> SABDFL :)
[04:52] <\sh> anyways...time to shower
[04:52] <LaserJock> SABDFL, I love that
[04:52] <Kyral> Can Python be byte compiled into a binary?
[04:52] <Kyral> to function without an interpreter?
[04:55] <dfarning> there have been a few efforts but none work yet
[04:55] <Kyral> See, I hear the phrase "interpreted language" and I get images of the JRE
[04:55] <Kyral> which is the main reason I dislike Java
[04:55] <LaserJock> what would be the point?
[04:56] <Kyral> of?
[04:56] <LaserJock> having Python be byte compiled
[04:56] <crimsun> people might argue performance
[04:56] <Kyral> Wouldn't need its interpreter
[04:56] <crimsun> frankly, I think ironpython is neater
[04:57] <Kyral> the example I make is that Azureus has a memory footprint of ~ 30 MB
[04:57] <LaserJock> I would say that the Python interpreter is different from the JRE
[04:57] <Kyral> the JRE that is needed to run it has a memory footprint of about 200 MB
[04:58] <LaserJock> python is on a lot of linux computers by default and It is really easy to get going on Windows
[04:59] <LaserJock> and if performance is a problem then there are tricks to make it faster (using C underneath) or just using another language
[05:00] <LaserJock> I don't know though, but this seems to be a ongoing argument in the scientific computing circles
[05:00] <Kyral> Actually you CAN use the Boost libs to include Python code in C++ code and vice versa
[05:02] <LaserJock> Kyral: I use scipy for scientific stuff and it uses Fortran and C and my programs are only 1.5 - 5 times slower than pure Fortran/C
[05:02] <LaserJock> compared to >100 slower for pure Python
[05:02] <Kyral> ah
[05:03] <Kyral> Actually I saw an option in the kernel to allow you to insert any language into the kernel
[05:03] <dfarning> I've had good luck writing the code in python quick and easy, then rewriting the bottle necks as c modules
[05:04] <LaserJock> yeah, I don't know if any language is going to work perfectly for everything. That is why I use python for scripting and fortran for computationally intensive stuff and C when I need to make an actual program
[05:05] <LaserJock> but then I don't have very complicated needs. Mostly some number crunching with data file analysis
[05:06] <Kyral> I guess the best option is to learn a bunch of core languages
[05:07] <Kyral> Like C++, Python, Perl, PHP
[05:07] <Kyral> Frankly I love C++ and I think tis possible to do anything with the language, but I realize there are better tools out there
[05:08] <Kyral> I should really get around to learning GTK or PyGTK
[05:08] <LaserJock> python is the closest I have found so far for a language that does everything. Mostly because I can include Fortran code if I need to for things that python doesn't do well
[05:08] <dfarning> start with gtk the documentation for pygtk is still pretty poor
[05:09] <Kyral> yah one of my friends is learning it and is quite upset with that point ;P
[05:09] <LaserJock> yeah, me too. I don't know C++ and barely any C so some of the gui stuff is hard for me to find documentation for
[05:10] <Kyral> C++ is a good foundation I found
[05:10] <Kyral> I was learning about PHP Arrays and the first thing I thought was "Oh crap.....pointer time"
[05:11] <Kyral> Then the prof said "They are automatically resizeable" and I was like "SCORE! Vectors!"
[05:11] <dfarning> from my experience you can't really understand the pygtk bindings until grasp the why and how of gtk
[05:11] <dfarning> pygtk does some hand waving that can be confusing
[05:12] <LaserJock> dfarning: good food for thought, maybe I will try looking into gtk first
[05:12] <Kyral> If you ask anyone who knows my coding style, they will tell you that I dispise C Arrays and think they are old things that should be discarded in favor of Vectors
[05:13] <Kyral> "Why use an Array when you can use a Vector"
[05:14] <dfarning> cause in c they are really really fast
[05:14] <Kyral> I don;t use C ;P
[05:14] <Kyral> I use C++ :P
[05:14] <LaserJock> Kyral: have you been to the ubuntuforums Programming section?
[05:14] <Kyral> yah sometimes
[05:15] <Kyral> Okay laundry done, ANIME!
[05:15] <LaserJock> they have some good flame wars sometimes
[05:15] <Kyral> I generally helpout on the Desktop Support and ABT forum,s
[05:15] <Kyral> New User Network Mentor :D
[05:15] <LaserJock> there are some good Java vs. C++ vs. Python kindda
[05:15] <LaserJock> wars
[05:16] <Kyral> but now I'm watching Ai Yori Aoshi :D
[05:16] <LaserJock> well, we wouldn't want to get between you and your anime ;-)
[05:17] <Kyral> You have no idea how true that statement is ;P
[05:17] <LaserJock> surely not, I've never watched any anime
[05:18] <Kyral> Only few people are important enough to me to tear me away from anime ;P
[05:18] <LaserJock> sounds like me and Ubuntu
[05:18] <LaserJock> my wife is always telling me to get off the computer
[05:19] <dfarning> Are the skype distubution terms as found on http://www.skype.com/company/legal/promote/distributionterms.html acceptiable to Ubuntu
[05:19] <\sh> dfarning: no
[05:19] <\sh> if they were, we would distribute it already
[05:20] <LaserJock> \sh: do you know where there are any places to find cool packaging scripts or apt interaction scripts?
[05:21] <\sh> LaserJock: what are "cool packaging scripts"?
[05:22] <dfarning> I am going through the wish list looking for a good package to start working on looks like you all got most all the good (easy)ones:
[05:22] <LaserJock> \sh: well hard to say exactly. I would like stuff to get info about the apt cache. I am trying to compare the list of installed Universe packages to what I have installed
[05:23] <bhuvan> dfarning: its true :) i faced the same problem too
[05:23] <dfarning> bhuvan: got any suggestions for me.
[05:26] <bhuvan> look into migration breezy->dapper tasks
[05:26] <bhuvan> someone can point a sample bug in bugzilla/malone ??
[05:27] <dfarning> Is there a wiki on the migration
[05:27] <Amaranth> dfarning: Why? Is the wiki down?
[05:29] <LaserJock> right now I think it is mostly bugfixing but I'm not sure
[05:30] <dfarning> I am new to Ubuntu and have not really figured out how to effectently find stuff on the wiki
[05:30] <LaserJock> dfarning: what are you looking for?
[05:31] <dfarning> Info on helping with the breezy -> dapper migration
[05:32] <LaserJock> well you can always go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo but right now I don't know if there is much beyond bug fixing and new packages
[05:32] <dfarning> I get bound up in what is in the wiki, the forums, launchpad, or bugzilla;)
[05:33] <LaserJock> right now I think that there is the Merge-O-Matic where packages are being synced with Debian sid
[05:33] <dfarning> thanks i'll start there
[05:34] <Amaranth> LaserJock: aye, that'll run for awhile, then we'll make sure everything is synced properly, then bugfixing.
[05:34] <\sh> LaserJock: MOM is not running
[05:34] <Amaranth> And new not-from-debian packages go in that whole time too.
[05:34] <Amaranth> \sh: It's stopped already?
[05:35] <\sh> Amaranth: it didn
[05:35] <\sh> 't run
[05:35] <\sh> for dapper
[05:35] <LaserJock> \sh:manual merge only?
[05:35] <Amaranth> \sh: I could have sworn they fired it up early this week.
[05:35] <\sh> what u see now in bugzilla is the rest of mom universe from breezy
[05:35] <Amaranth> Wait, no, they were just working on removing packages that came from sid but aren't there anymore.
[05:35] <\sh> Amaranth: but i'll ask keybuk when hes starting
[05:35] <Amaranth> like php3
[05:36] <\sh> LaserJock: yes
[05:36] <LaserJock> but MOM will be working sometime in the future?
[05:37] <Amaranth> After UBZ, I'd guess.
[05:37] <\sh> depends
[05:37] <\sh> if keybuk fixes mom yes
[05:37] <Amaranth> They're going to figure all that out at UBZ.
[05:38] <LaserJock> hmm, darn scroll mouse ;-)
[05:38] <Amaranth> At least that's what I've understood from the mailing list.
[05:38] <LaserJock> my chat window is going nuts
[05:38] <LaserJock> piece of Windows crap
[05:41] <LaserJock> so, if it is not fixed, will there be a replacement? or will it be left to the MOTU and wannabes?
[05:44] <\sh> Amaranth: u r not attending ubz?
[05:44] <Amaranth> \sh: I can't.
[05:44] <Amaranth> \sh: Work, school, and a lack of funds.
[05:44] <\sh> Amaranth: sad :(
[05:45] <\sh> yeah know that feeling
[05:45] <LaserJock> how long is UBZ?
[05:45] <\sh> the ubuntu section 1 week
[05:45] <\sh> the launchpad section 1 1/2 week
[05:46] <LaserJock> wow, that would be hard to get away for that long
[05:46] <\sh> LaserJock: most of the motus will stay only until the 6th..so first week
[05:50] <whiprush> hi \sh
[05:50] <\sh> hey whiprush good morning :)
[05:50] <whiprush> I won't be making it this time. :( I was hoping to meet you.
[05:51] <whiprush> attend a smoker's bof for me with ogra and dholbach though
[05:51] <\sh> whiprush: read your entry :(
[05:51] <whiprush> well, it'll make it that much easier to go to the next one. :)
[05:52] <\sh> whiprush: whereever it is :)
[05:53] <whiprush> nothing interesting ever happens in the states.
[05:53] <whiprush> I'm sure it will be wherever it's most expensive and far away from me, heh.
[05:53] <\sh> whiprush: but I have/had many problems during the last weeks...they wanted me to stop going on vacations, because of our projects in the company
[05:53] <whiprush> ouch.
[05:54] <whiprush> your job looks interesting
[05:54] <\sh> whiprush: and somehow yesterday everybody had their salary on the account but not me...so i'm flying now without a cent in my pocket to canada
[05:54] <whiprush> that huge display NOC-looking thing looked neat.
[05:54] <\sh> and hope that my salary is on my account on monday latest
[05:54] <whiprush> yeah I don't get paid until monday myself.
[05:54] <whiprush> yeah, I feel you man.
[05:55] <\sh> well...borrow some bucks from siretart or ogra during the weekend...I'm really frustrated because of this..
[05:55] <\sh> and my problems with take offs and landings don't make things better
[05:55] <whiprush> lots of stops?
[05:56] <\sh> whiprush: flying from cologne to frankfurt and from frankfurt to montreal
[06:07] <\sh> whiprush: i'll take some photos...and post them during my stay in montreal on my gallery and send a link via blog :) so u won't miss anything :)
[06:13] <dfarning> Hey, just found  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile.  Would adding .desktop files be a good way to learn the mechanices of the package rebuild process?
[06:13] <\sh> yes
[06:14] <dfarning> cool, I'll get crackin'
[06:14] <LaserJock> dfarning: just make sure that there really isn't a correct .desktop file first. That list is old (Hoary), I think.
[06:14] <Amaranth> dfarning: And they're easy to do, you can basically copy and paste another app's file and do some light editing.
[06:15] <LaserJock> I have been meaning to talk to someone about the UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile. Do we really need to have all of those in the menu?
[06:16] <LaserJock> I personally think that the Debian menu is incredibly cluttered and anti-productive
[06:16] <LaserJock> but maybe that is where Amaranth is here to save the day ;-)
[06:16] <\sh> LaserJock: thats why we need a .desktop file :)
[06:16] <Amaranth> .desktop files can be turned off, tucked away somewhere, and generally managed better
[06:17] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Just use smeg or alacarte to hide the entire Debian menu. :)
[06:17] <LaserJock> \sh: but aren't we just moving stuff from the Debian menu to the ubuntu menu?
[06:17] <\sh> LaserJock: debian uses the .menu style somehow...
[06:17] <Amaranth> LaserJock: command line apps shouldn't get .desktop files, so not everything will be copied.
[06:18] <LaserJock> I am just wondering if we fix UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile, will we have a huge mess on our hands?
[06:18] <LaserJock> Amaranth: that is what I am talking about
[06:18] <Amaranth> \sh: Someone wrote a script (I think it's in the menu package) that converts the Debian menu system into a .menu file and such.
[06:18] <LaserJock> Don't we need to make some decision as to what to put into the Ubuntu menu?
[06:18] <Amaranth> At least that was my understanding of it when I was talking to the guy that did it.
[06:19] <\sh> Amaranth: lets see at ubz..
[06:19] <\sh> well...I'm switching off now..pack the laptop in my bag...and lay down for some minutes..to calm down my stomach
[06:19] <Amaranth> \sh: It's already done, it's how the Debian menu shows up as a submenu in GNOME.
[06:19] <\sh> Amaranth: yeah..but i don't like the debian menu ,)
[06:19] <LaserJock> \sh: have a good flight
[06:19] <\sh> anyways...
[06:20] <\sh> see u when i have connection in montreal :)
[06:20] <Amaranth> \sh: Bye, have fun at ubz. :)
[06:20] <Amaranth> Don't wear shorts!
[06:20] <\sh> thx guys...
[06:20] <\sh> heheh
[06:20] <Amaranth> That's pretty close to 0C for you metric folks.
[06:21] <LaserJock> yeah, at my undergrad in Montana we had some Hawiian guys who would run out in their "skirts" and nothing else in the middle winter. Yikes!
[06:22] <LaserJock> Amaranth: do you see my concern with UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile ?
[06:23] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Yeah, but most of the stuff in there is either a command line app (shouldn't have a .desktop file), useful, or geek stuff that probably won't show up for normal users.
[06:24] <Amaranth> LaserJock: At least that's what I have in my Debian menu when it magically shows up after installing things.
[06:24] <LaserJock> but if we are sending people in to make .desktop files won't that be a problem
[06:24] <Amaranth> LaserJock: No matter what, we want that menu to never show up. :)
[06:24] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Read what I said...
[06:25] <LaserJock> right, but if we say go work on the list and the list has CLI apps then they will show up
[06:26] <Amaranth> LaserJock: They don't get in without being accepted, unless a MOTU with upload rights is doing them.
[06:26] <Amaranth> But that list seems to be left for newcomers to chew on.
[06:27] <LaserJock> well, maybe I will put something on the wiki page to let people know that they need to think about what they adding to the menu
[06:27] <Amaranth> Yeah.
[06:28] <Amaranth> No CLI apps in the menu! :)
[06:33] <LaserJock> Amaranth: is there a case were a CLI app would need a .desktop file? mime-type handling or anything like that
[06:33] <Amaranth> LaserJock: Yuck. The day we need a CLI app to handle a mime-type is the day we've failed.
[06:33] <LaserJock> that is what I would think but I just wondered
[06:33] <Amaranth> And should all give up and find a new hobby.
[06:50] <Kyral> Amaranth, the day we have failed is the day Linus uses Windows ;P
[06:50] <Amaranth> Kyral: He already uses a PowerPC, we're slipping. :)
[06:51] <Kyral> Yes but does he run Linux on it ;P
[06:52] <bhuvan> iirc, he runs mac ?
[06:55] <Amaranth> it's a powerpc, yeah
[06:55] <Amaranth> but it'll never run OS X
[06:56] <LaserJock> my boss is a die hard linux fan but he just recently got an iMac from the university and he seems fairly happy with it so far
[06:57] <LaserJock> of course all he needs is fvwm, emacs, firefox, and acroread
[06:58] <Amaranth> *shudder*
[06:58] <Amaranth> one nice thing about OS X is their vfs layer is very low level
[06:59] <Amaranth> fopen() works on http://, from what i've been told
[06:59] <Amaranth> i'd like to see that in the linux kernel some day
[06:59] <LaserJock> yeah, cool
[07:00] <LaserJock> does anybody know how big the entire main and universe repository is?
[07:03] <Amaranth> with source i think it's around 110GB
[07:03] <farruinn> If I run a python program (solfege) and it throws a bunch of dependency warinings at me, I take it that package needs to be updated for use with Ubuntu's python?
[07:03] <farruinn> s/dependency/deprecation
[07:03] <LaserJock> Amaranth: dang, that's huge
[07:04] <Amaranth> Ubuntu Distro Stats on breezy... 17902 packages, 1641 maintainers, 34780 MB installed size, 10804 MB compressed size.
[07:04] <Amaranth> that's without source
[07:04] <farruinn> that's main and universe, right?
[07:04] <Amaranth> main, restricted, universe, multiverse
[07:05] <Amaranth> at least afaik, the bot spit it out
[07:05] <LaserJock> well, hmm. I want to make the list from UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile but I think I might need to download all of the .debs
[07:05] <LaserJock> maybe not though
[07:05] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[07:06] <Amaranth> I think someone has a script that finds the packages and updates the wiki
[07:06] <LaserJock> 10804 MB would be ok though
[07:06] <Amaranth> ugh
[07:07] <Amaranth> Microsoft threatens to pull Windows from an entire _country_ and their stock goes up.
[07:07] <LaserJock> Korea right?
[07:07] <Amaranth> yeah
[07:07] <Amaranth> their stock rose 68 cents
[07:07] <Amaranth> that's just sad
[07:07] <LaserJock> hmm, that just seems wierd
[07:09] <dfarning> overall the market was up Dow Gains 172, Nasdaq Up 26 on GDP Growth
[07:23] <siretart> morning
[07:23] <LaserJock> evening ;-)
[07:26] <crimsun> really early morning ;-)
[07:31] <siretart> 7:30am over here
[07:33] <farruinn> heh, that'd be really early for me ;)
[07:34] <Treenaks> 7:30 here too :)
[07:35] <Treenaks> Plane to UBZ in 7 hours, 20 minutes
[07:35] <farruinn> I'm so excited, Montreal is only 2 hours away!
[07:35] <LaserJock> 10:30 here and almost time to go to bed
[07:37] <[Chameleon] > have fun, do lots of cool hacker stuff. make your moms proud!
[07:37] <LaserJock> farruinn: that would be cool. I don't think I will ever get to go to a Ubuntu meeting
[07:37] <hub> farruinn: montreal is here
[07:37] <hub> :-)
[07:38] <farruinn> I have school during the actual developer's conference, but I'm going for love day!
[07:38] <farruinn> hub: you live in montreal? I'm going to school in Potsdam, NY
[07:38] <Treenaks> farruinn: cool
[07:38] <hub> i live in mtl, yes
[07:38] <Treenaks> farruinn: want to be in a video? :)
[07:39] <Treenaks> farruinn: http://foodfight.org/movies/Ubuntu%20Fanpeople/
[07:44] <siretart> ok, my is on the way to the airport. cu soon!
[07:44] <crimsun> bye
[07:45] <farruinn> jeff has a really manic look on his face in the first frame of his video
[07:45] <Treenaks> farruinn: yeah, he did it on purpose :)
[08:01] <Kyral> night all
[08:01] <LaserJock> gnight
[08:05] <zakame> hi all
[08:05] <LaserJock> hi
[08:07] <zakame> wazup here?
[08:07] <LaserJock> not much, a lot of people are heading to UBZ
[08:08] <Treenaks> ANARCHY!
[08:08] <Treenaks> *ahem*
[08:08] <zakame> haha
[08:09] <zakame> I suppose everybody's bringing their halloween costume :)
[08:09] <Treenaks> zakame: nah :)
[08:09] <Treenaks> I'm scary enough by myself
[08:10] <zakame> hihi
[08:12] <farruinn> I'm feeling defeated: I downloaded the debian source package for Solfege 3.0.2 and compiled/packaged it with no problem. When I try to install the resulting *.deb thought I get the error: "/var/lib/dpkg/info/solfege.postinst: line 27: /usr/bin/python2.3: No such file or directory"
[08:12] <farruinn> this line in the postinst script is trying to run /usr/bin/python$PV but I can't find where $PV is being set
[08:13] <farruinn> arg, please disregard that, I just found it
[08:18] <farruinn> So what would have to happen for the current version of solfege (2.0.4) to be replaced with 3.0.2?
[08:21] <crimsun> have you confirmed it works?
[08:21] <crimsun> if so, I'll upload the new one
[08:32] <crimsun> farruinn: yes? no?
[08:33] <farruinn> I've found one bug, I'm looking to see if it's been reported upstream
[08:57] <farruinn> I didn't find this bug, but it wasn't hard to fix
[08:58] <farruinn> so, to make the package build and run correctly I modified a grand total of 2 files
[09:36] <crimsun> farruinn: ok, debdiff please.
[09:36] <crimsun> I just found a cdbs bug
[09:37] <crimsun> simple-patchsys.mk, actually.
[09:38] <crimsun> Debian's xfce4-terminal uses a patch with () in the filename, which nicely does nasty things.
[09:39] <farruinn> sorry crimsun, but I don't have a lot of experience working on the developer side of packages. What exactly do you want me to do with debdiff?
[09:40] <crimsun> farruinn: if you generate a debdiff, I'll inspect it and then upload 3.0.2
[10:09] <farruinn> crimsun: want me to just e-mail this to you?
[11:51] <dfarning> Would the best way to handle the UniversePackageWithoutDesktopFile be to make a patch fiel and submit it to the ppackage owner via malone?
[01:47] <Mez> lo all
[01:47] <Nafallo> morning Mez :-)
[01:51] <CaiN_SA> ajmitch,
[01:51] <CaiN_SA> dude when you comming ?
[02:18] <Mez> hey treenaks, not on your way yet
[02:18] <Seveas> ping: mythgame needs a rebuild it depends on libqt3c102-mt instead of libqt3-mt
[02:18] <ajmitch> hi
[02:19] <ajmitch> Mez: still at home, are you?
[02:34] <Nafallo> ajmitch: http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/fspot_segfault.txt ;-)
[02:34] <Nafallo> doesn't like to show my 3565 hidden amateur pornphotos :-P
[02:35] <ajmitch> great, you broke it
[02:35] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:37] <zakame> hi all
[02:38] <Nafallo> anyway, shower
[02:43] <ajmitch> after so many hours on the plane.. I need noise around me, it's too quiet! :)
[02:44] <zakame> hahaha
[02:45] <ajmitch> my ears are seriously ringing after ~24 hours of flight time
[02:45] <tseng> now you know how everyone felt at UDU
[02:46] <ajmitch> yeah
[02:46] <tseng> "death"
[02:46] <ajmitch> it was only a nice short 3 hours for me
[02:47] <tseng> the worst part about the flight for me was.. trying to get up to the bathroom
[02:47] <tseng> and not being able to shower for a full 24 hours
[02:47] <ajmitch> only 24 hours?
[02:47] <tseng> around that
[02:47] <ajmitch> that's the next thing I'll do
[02:47] <ajmitch> after IRC of course
[02:47] <tseng> oh man
[02:47] <tseng> i was about to punch out the Vibe staffers until i could get into my room
[02:48] <tseng> get a shower
[02:48] <ajmitch> yeah I got in fairly quickly here
[02:48] <tseng> i had to go to the park next door
[02:48] <ajmitch> just unwinding before I go for the shower
[02:48] <tseng> and join some aussies throwing candy at passersby
[02:48] <tseng> and drinking rum and coke at noon time
[02:49] <tseng> its a rough life down there
[02:49] <ajmitch> oh yes
[02:50] <tseng> the 42nd most bookmarked site on del.icio.us is... del.icio.us
[02:50] <tseng> 2404 links
[03:01] <zakame> ooh
[03:35] <Riddell> who's aa in canadia?
[03:37] <zakame> aa?
[03:37] <freeflying> Riddellhi
[03:37] <tseng> alcoholics anonymous
[03:38] <Riddell> good morning freeflying
[03:39] <zakame> ah
[03:39] <zakame> thought was associate in arts :)
[03:40] <freeflying> Riddell: It's night here :)
[03:40] <freeflying> Riddell: I want to build skim in one package just now
[03:41] <freeflying> for there are some problems to be solved
[03:42] <ajmitch> hello CaiN_SA, Riddell
[03:43] <ajmitch> CaiN_SA: where are you at the moment?
[03:44] <CaiN_SA> im in cthe hotel
[03:44] <CaiN_SA> ;)
[03:44] <CaiN_SA> why ?
[03:44] <ajmitch> right, I'm in my room at the moment
[03:45] <ajmitch> I got in a bit over an hour ago
[03:45] <CaiN_SA> lol
[03:45] <CaiN_SA> but your ident sais
[03:45] <CaiN_SA> you are in nz /
[03:45] <CaiN_SA> ?
[03:45] <ajmitch> nz, I know
[03:45] <ajmitch> that's what screen is for
[03:45] <CaiN_SA> ah ;)
[03:45] <CaiN_SA> you also in this chinatown holiday in ?
[03:46] <ajmitch> yes
[03:46] <ajmitch> I haven't had a look round yet
[03:46] <Riddell> everyone is, wouldn't be much of a conference if we were in different places :)
[03:46] <ajmitch> some people are staying elsewhere
[03:46] <CaiN_SA> ah i see
[03:47] <CaiN_SA> btw
[03:47] <CaiN_SA> i walked around outside
[03:47] <CaiN_SA> 10000 million hotels
[03:47] <CaiN_SA> conference center is accross the street
[03:48] <ajmitch> oh good
[03:48] <ajmitch> I got in a bit late, I wonder if I can still get breakfast
[03:48] <CaiN_SA> dunno
[03:48] <CaiN_SA> dont eat the pancakes
[03:48] <Riddell> breakfast is until 10
[03:48] <CaiN_SA> it tastes weird
[03:49] <ajmitch> Riddell: then I'd better hurry :)
[03:49] <ajmitch> where is it?
[03:50] <CaiN_SA> by reception
[03:50] <CaiN_SA> that chinese place
[03:50] <CaiN_SA> i came in last night
[03:50] <ajmitch> ok
[03:50] <CaiN_SA> went strait to sleep
[03:50] <ajmitch> 2nd floor?
[03:50] <CaiN_SA> yeh
[03:51] <ajmitch> do I need a voucher for this ppne?
[03:51] <ajmitch> s/ppne/one/
[03:51] <ajmitch> I'll find out, heading down there now if anyone wants to meetup :)
[03:52] <Riddell> yes you do
[03:53] <tseng> sounds like you are out a breakfast
[03:53] <CaiN_SA> yeah
[03:53] <CaiN_SA> ask reception for 1
[03:54] <CaiN_SA> i like the free internet tho
[04:52] <dereks> does anyone here use avahi?
[04:54] <dereks> Lathiat: you around?
[06:23] <Lathiat> dereks: sup?
[07:17] <Riddell> ** #ubz for conference discussion
[10:15] <Kyral> hey Mez
[10:17] <Mez> hi
[10:27] <Kyral> Wait....does Ubuntu Love start at 9 AM EDT or 9 AM EST?
[10:28] <Kyral> because the time switch is tonight...
[11:56] <crimsun> mm mythtv ftbfs on 2/3 arches due to old ffmpeg
[11:56] <crimsun> hooray