[12:02] <pitti> jdub: btw, I just fix ogra's gthumb import - just a missing cam entry in the USB usermap
[12:03] <jdub> heh, nice :-)
[12:03] <pitti> Keybuk: we really need to bury all this usermap crap
[12:03] <jdub> even so, gthumb is poo :-)
[12:03] <jdub> (and when i say "poo" i mean, not fully aligned with most common user goals)
[12:03] <pitti> jdub: it does what I want, it's fast, so I did never bother to look for alternatives
[12:04] <Keybuk> pitti: yes, we do; once we've decided which of the three possibilities for udev/hotplug/etc. in dapper we want to choose, we can see whether we'll do that or not
[12:08] <Mez> Keybuk, is initNG/similar going to be in dapper?
[12:08] <Keybuk> no, I wouldn't want to put it in for that
[12:08] <jdub> LORD NO
[12:08] <Keybuk> it's a dapper+1 thing at the earliest
[12:08] <Mez> lol
[12:08] <Mez> kk
[12:08] <Mez> gtg
[12:09] <Keybuk> we might talk about it here, and prototypes might be available on people or maayyyybe in universe if I have too many bored weekends, but definitely NOT main
[12:09] <Keybuk> we have to support dapper for 5 years on the server, isn't the place to change things like that <g>
[12:14] <hunger> Keybuk: dapper+1 will need to get that kind of support as well, won't it?
[12:14] <Keybuk> no, dapper+1 will be the usual
[12:15] <hunger> Keybuk: Oh, really?
[12:15] <Keybuk> we're not doing 5 years support for every release, just special ones
[12:15] <hunger> Keybuk: Oh, great!
[12:15] <Keybuk> it's not been decided yet what kind of schedule (if any other than "looks good") will happen for those
[12:16] <hunger> Keybuk: It should be a somewhat more reliable shedule then "whenever looks good":-)
[12:16] <Keybuk> 't'ain't up t'me
[12:36] <Keybuk> sabdfl: I have a better icon for Ubuntu Drivers ... a bulldozer
[12:37] <Keybuk> :p
[12:37] <Keybuk> the lightbulb is boorrrring
[12:38] <farruinn> So does Montreal go into daylight savings tonight? I don't want to be late to Love Day :D
[12:38] <Keybuk> dunno
[12:38] <Keybuk> my phone got an update earlier
[12:39] <hunger> farruinn: In germany you would come an hour too early if you missed the time-change.
[12:39] <Riddell> farruinn: it does
[12:39] <Riddell> back one hour at 0300 to 0200
[12:39] <farruinn> ok, thanks!
[12:40] <farruinn> mmmm, that will make getting up at 6 AM easier ;)
[12:47] <feehan> farruinn, where are you driving from?
[12:47] <mdke> bloody hell
[12:47] <farruinn> Potsdam, NY
[12:47] <feehan> Just curious... I'm coming from Burlington, VT
[12:48] <pitti> farruinn: nice. there is a "Potsdam" in NY? There is one in Germany, too :-)
[12:48] <tsume> feehan: are you in school there?
[12:48] <feehan> tsume, no I work at UVM. sysadmin.
[12:48] <farruinn> pitti: yeah, I've heard mention of Potsdam in Germany :)
[12:48] <tsume> pitti: the US stole the name ;)
[12:48] <tsume> pitti: I'm sure the city was named after a historical reference ;)
[12:48] <pitti> tsume: maybe due to some German immigrants
[12:48] <tsume> or a guy's name
[12:48] <tsume> pitti: could be.
[12:49] <farruinn> this is the potsdam that Nightmare on Elm Street takes place in though :)
[12:50] <jdub> mdke: yeah, that's the plone stylesheets fucking with it
[12:50] <tsume> well you can now sleep at night knowing Potsdam, NY was where "Nightmare on Elm Street" came from
[12:50] <tsume> there is a Elm Street in Postdam, NY.
[12:50] <tsume> it was originally a student project :D
[12:50] <mdke> jdub, well I've buggered up mine without plone :D works in firefox tho
[12:51] <jdub> it's easy to arse up OS
[12:51] <jdub> IE
[12:51] <mdke> i'm rubbish with css
[12:51] <mdke> oh well
[12:51] <mdke> no one in their right mind uses IE
[12:52] <mdke> especially to read an ubuntu planet
[12:52] <tsume> *creash* *burn* oh no!
[12:52] <tsume> *crash
[12:52] <mdke> yeah it is ugly stuff
[12:53] <mdke> anyway, great software jdub 
[01:01] <blueyed> Kamion: are you the maintainer of openssh-server? I'd like to have the chroot patch in the main or alternative package (http://chrootssh.sourceforge.net/). What do you think?
[01:03] <Keybuk> I suspect he's currently thinking "ah, we're coming into Land, I better put my tray-table in its upright position and stow my seat"
[01:06] <blueyed> oh, ubz? Just want to know if it makes sense to wish-bugtrack it.
[01:06] <jdub> blueyed: always worth a try
[02:46] <Nafallo> sabdfl: hi mark :-). how's everything going over there?
[02:56] <tseng> jdub: hm mdz opened a spec for beagle.. ill write something sometime this week for his approval
[06:00] <Kamion> blueyed: I think "get it upstream, I don't really want to have to maintain it and keep porting it to new versions"
[06:01] <Kamion> people need to push openssh patches to upstream more rather than to distros - it's all a horrible mess at the moment
[06:02] <blueyed> Kamion: yes, I see. I've filed as a wish already though. Read somewhere that openssh don't want it.. :/
[06:02] <lifeless> Kamion: go to sleep!
[06:02] <blueyed> but it's markable how many patches there are.
[06:02] <Kamion> blueyed: if upstream doesn't want it I have no great interest in going against them, since I need their help
[06:02] <Kamion> blueyed: yes, way too many
[06:03] <Kamion> not justification for more, especially if they've been rejected by upstream :)
[06:03] <Kamion> lifeless: will do soon
[06:04] <blueyed> Kamion: I'd meant putting it into the distro would help users not to have apply it. It's also a security issue, if you have to build own packages or build from source. You're also the debian maintainer?
[06:04] <Kamion> no, it's not a security issue, any more than any other random patch is; I've never accepted that argument and I'm not going to start now
[06:04] <Kamion> yes, I'm effectively the Debian maintainer
[06:05] <Kamion> it would be a security issue if I started accepting every patch uncritically :)
[06:05] <blueyed> Kamion: of course.. :) g'night.. :)
[06:15] <lamont> E: Package libxaw8-dev has no installation candidate
[06:15] <lamont> aw8??  hrm.
[06:15] <bob2> haha
[06:15] <bob2> glad they're keeping that awesome library up to date
[07:47] <poningru> so how many people here are at ubz?
[07:54] <robitaille> poningru,  they are probably in bed since it is 3am in Montreal :)
[08:10] <zyga> morning
[08:15] <zyga> hi
[08:17] <zyga> hmm okay nothing
[08:45] <poningru> hmm
[09:27] <mdke> something wrong with universe security?
[09:27] <mdke> Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy-security/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Sub-process bzip2 returned an error code (2)
[09:27] <TiMiDo> is it offline?
[09:29] <mdke> only that one gives a problem
[09:29] <mdke> the other 3 are ok
[09:35] <zyga> has anyone seen pitti?
[09:37] <robitaille> if he is in Montreal for UBZ, then he is probably in bed :)
[09:37] <zyga> good point!
[09:37] <mdke> unless he is a real party animal
[09:37] <robitaille> 4:30am.... that will be a very good party
[09:38] <robitaille> especially considering UBZ starts in a few short hours
[10:26] <jewel_> So I got bored and made a page that randomly generates possible names for dapper+1: http://thesteve.org/ubuntu/
[10:28] <mdke> jewel_, that is pretty fun
[10:29] <mdke> fungicidal ferret 
[10:31] <pef> hello
[12:06] <flowT> 3Hi! What is faster: shared memory between some processes or kernel-level threads working in same address space? is it same speed?
[12:06] <bob2> haha
[12:06] <bob2> is this really your bottleneck?
[12:06] <bob2> (I'd think they'd be the same)
[12:07] <Lathiat> yeh they pretty much should be
[12:07] <Lathiat> iirc shm on linux is tmpfs no?
[12:07] <mjr> yes
[12:07] <bob2> doesn't it just map it into both address spaces?
[12:07] <mjr> well, posix shm is
[12:07] <mjr> sysv shm is different, I think, still
[12:07] <Lathiat> bob2: well at least one implementation just uses files on a ramdisk
[12:08] <Lathiat> hence /dev/shm, i assume
[12:08] <mjr> yes, posix shm uses that
[12:09] <zyga> how slow is generic IPC stuff (msg queue for example) compared to library call?
[12:09] <zyga> or to really state the question:
[12:09] <Lathiat> uh all now we're getting started :)
[12:09] <mjr> (personally I think that sysv ipc should be reworked on top of the posix stuff as much as possible, but ah well)
[12:09] <zyga> if 10 processes are using a shared library and call it pretty often
[12:09] <zyga> how less efficient would that be if instead of shared library I'd have a daemon process that all the other processes would talk to via any ipc 
[12:10] <zyga> the amounts of data are small in this case
[12:10] <Lathiat> well, when your talking to another process, you usually end up context switching back and forth 
[12:10] <bob2> I'd think the extra context switch would be the issue
[12:10] <Lathiat> not that thats often a problem and the levels most people work at
[12:11] <bob2> but would be swamped by whatever work that you're actuall ydoing
[12:11] <mjr> yep, context switches
[12:11] <zyga> in current setup all N processes are doing the exactly same work and get exactly same result, want to move that to a daemon
[12:11] <zyga> hmm
[12:11] <Lathiat> you also get things like, if your using dbus o rsomething, you context switch twice
[12:11] <Lathiat> well, 4 times, i guess
[12:11] <Lathiat> zyga: uh, why?
[12:11] <zyga> just out of curiosity ATM
[12:12] <zyga> think about all the processing done by every app
[12:12] <zyga> looking up files 
[12:12] <zyga> reading files converting lots of stuff to utf8
[12:12] <Lathiat> iirc gettext is pretty effecient, the files are mmaped with a hash table built into them or something
[12:12] <zyga> Lathiat, only if you have utf8 encoded files
[12:12] <Lathiat> zyga: there are better performance problems to solve atm :)
[12:12] <zyga> Lathiat, otherwise it transcodes them back to any locale your app is using (which is utf8 pretty often(
[12:12] <Lathiat> i.e. lots of things that go and read in 350 files
[12:12] <zyga> Lathiat, nah I care about i18n :-)
[12:12] <zyga> Lathiat, that too
[12:13] <bob2> figuring out why gnome is so goddamn slow would be a good one to work on
[12:13] <zyga> Lathiat, gettextd could buid a cache in /var/cache/gettext
[12:13] <zyga> one big file with simple database
[12:13] <Lathiat> bob2: theres alot of optimization for gnome already figured out
[12:13] <Lathiat> people just need to fix it
[12:13] <zyga> could be better i/o wise than gazillion of .mo files
[12:13] <Lathiat> fixing gconf woudl be a good start
[12:13] <mdke> multimedia needs fixing in breezy too
[12:13] <Lathiat> grahame bowland had a workign sqlite gconf frontend 
[12:13] <Lathiat> mdke: multimedia is hard 
[12:14] <mdke> Lathiat, i'm sure
[12:14] <Lathiat> what we need is gstreamer totally kicking ass
[12:14] <mdke> it was better in hoary though
[12:14] <Lathiat> so you can just drop in the appropriate plugins
[12:14] <Lathiat> from less legalish sources :)
[12:14] <Lathiat> mdke: howso?
[12:14] <mdke> Lathiat, well i have mp3s on a gnump3d server and I can't play em remotely with totem
[12:15] <Lathiat> you could never play mp3s out of the box
[12:15] <Lathiat> whats gnump3d ?
[12:15] <mdke> its just an mp3 server
[12:15] <Lathiat> is the problem here getting it out of the server or decoding the mp3
[12:15] <mdke> the former
[12:15] <Lathiat> right
[12:16] <Lathiat> well i repeat my question, what the f**k is gnump3d? :)
[12:16] <Lathiat> what does it serve over?
[12:16] <mdke> http
[12:16] <Lathiat> that should work fine?
[12:16] <Lathiat> as long as you have the mp3 decoder installed
[12:16] <Lathiat> which it isnt by default due to patenty or something issues
[12:17] <zyga> Lathiat, right unless ubuntu buys a 100K license for gstreamer ;-)
[12:17] <Lathiat> zyga: :)
[12:17] <mdke> i have the decoder
[12:17] <mdke> totem doesn't get the right signals from firefox i guess
[12:17] <zyga> (100K buys a unlimted number of software licenses for any one software)
[12:17] <Lathiat> zyga: heh, cute
[12:18] <zyga> Lathiat, ah my mistake
[12:18] <zyga> only 50K
[12:18] <Lathiat> petty cash ;)
[12:18] <zyga> http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/software.html
[12:19] <zyga> let's wait for a sponsor to pay for legal mad :-)
[12:19] <zyga> actually
[12:19] <zyga> a fundraiser for 50K is pretty possible
[12:19] <zyga> ughh
[12:20] <Lathiat> wow, whoever gets that money must be making a killing
[12:21] <Lathiat> apparently i can get a plugin for my new phone to support vorbis, which is nifty
[12:24] <zyga> what is .m4a
[12:25] <bob2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4a
[12:25] <Yagisan>  zyga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4a
[12:25] <bob2> zing!
[12:25] <zyga> ah
[12:43] <highvoltage> i can't find an answer for this anywhere. my breezy installation creates reiser4 partitions fine, but doesn't want to mount it. is reiser4 support complete in ubuntu?
[12:43] <siretart> hi Mez 
[12:43] <siretart> Mez: where are you? 
[12:44] <Mez> around warwick
[12:44] <Mez> I'm on my way to heathrow
[12:45] <siretart> ah
[12:45] <\sh> Mez: so u missing the start :)
[12:46] <Mez> yeah
[12:46] <zyga> highvoltage, cat /proc/filesystems ?
[12:46] <Mez> wont be there till 5:45
[12:48] <bob2> highvoltage: erm
[12:48] <bob2> highvoltage: resier4 isn't in the kernel...
[12:49] <Yagisan> highvoltage: you need a -mm kernel for that, but we have other nice filesystems for you to try
[12:50] <bob2> just use ext3
[12:50] <zyga> err, just use reiserfs
[12:51] <alexbligh> Hi: I know this is not a support channel (just been sent here from #ubuntu as apparently this is sufficiently arcane) BUT: I am trying to get ubuntu installed on a machine with a 9500SX 3-Ware RAID controller. Contoller support was added after 2.6.12. This is to be the only filesystem in the machine. My attempt to do this so far involves building a custom kernel package (backporting the 3-ware driver to 2.6.12( and it recogni
[12:51] <highvoltage> i'm using reiserfs atm, just wanted to play with the built-in compression in r4. thanks, i'll keep an eye out for it in dapper.
[12:51] <Yagisan> highvoltage: I use ext3 or root, all others are jfs
[12:52] <carstenh> alexbligh: everything after "( and it recogni" has been cut off
[12:53] <alexbligh> try again
[12:54] <alexbligh> Hi: I know this is not a support channel (just been sent here from #ubuntu as apparently this is sufficiently arcane) BUT: I am trying to get ubuntu installed on a machine with a 9500SX 3-Ware RAID controller. Contoller support was added after 2.6.12. This is to be the only filesystem in the machine. My attempt to do this so far involves building a custom kernel package (backporting the 3-ware driver to 2.6.12
[12:54] <highvoltage> zyga: me too, that's why i asked :)
[12:54] <alexbligh>  and it recognizes the RAID controller, but I get lots of invalid LUNs and mkfs grinds to an incredibly slow halt. 
[12:55] <alexbligh> When I make a new CD I get /dev/rd0 not present (why does it care) and boot drops into a shell.
[12:55] <alexbligh> I don't know whether my backport failed (in which case what's the best way to get 2.6.14 into a kernel package WITH appropriat dpatch's) or whether my attempt to make a CD is screwed
[12:55] <alexbligh> Any suggestions?
[12:56] <alexbligh> It's a 1.5Tb disk
[01:19] <madduck> jbailey: happy birthday! :)
[01:40] <gouchi> Hi
[01:41] <gouchi> I was wandering how http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/ is it uses ?
[01:43] <gouchi> is it uses to solve some hardware problem ?
[01:44] <gouchi> or just to have statistic about which hardware did or didn't work ?
[01:50] <ogra> gouchi, both... even if we currently only collect the data, its planned to a.) provide statistics about hardware used, b.) show problematic hardware and c.) give an hardware overview for bugtracking
[01:50] <gouchi> ok ;-)
[01:50] <gouchi> cool
[01:58] <jbailey> madduck|msg_me: Thanks. =)
[01:59] <ogra> jbailey, !!!
[01:59] <seb128> hey Jeff
[01:59] <ogra> jbailey, happy getting older !!!
[01:59] <jsgotangco> birthday?
[01:59] <ogra> now you belong to the grown ups :)
[02:00] <tseng> ogra: only if he cuts that hair
[02:00] <highvoltage> ogra: why, how old is jbaily now?
[02:00] <zul> jbailey: foogey
[02:00] <ogra> highvoltage, never ask a girl for her age ;)
[02:00] <highvoltage> ogra: lol!
[02:00] <jsgotangco> bwhahaa
[02:00] <tseng> oh man
[02:01] <jsgotangco> especially with blue highlights...
[02:01] <bob2> jbailey: oh, happy birthday
[02:02] <highvoltage> ogra: how to you set your irc name / network on launchpad? I didn't get those fields.
[02:02] <ogra> highvoltage, ask Seveas
[02:02] <ogra> he does it for us
[02:03] <highvoltage> ogra: ok.
[02:03] <ogra> highvoltage, oh, on launchpad... i thought on irc
[02:03] <zul> ogra: stop beeping ;)
[02:03] <ogra> dunno, i just did it ...
[02:04] <mdke> i think the functionality may have been removed from the LP member configuration screen
[02:04] <mdke> it used to be there
[02:04] <highvoltage> ogra: no, sorry, i'm an idiot. the fields are there, i think i just looked passwd it somehow
[02:04] <ogra> highvoltage, go to edit your details... its in the lower box on the right
[02:04] <mdke> oh good
[02:04] <ogra> it has a extra box
[02:05] <ogra> highvoltage, dont forget to subscribe to the edubuntu team ;)
[02:05] <bob2> it's gone it seems
[02:06] <mdke> nah it's there
[02:06] <mdke> just a bit harder to find
[02:06] <ogra> eeek
[02:06] <ogra> how did i end up on this one ? https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/openoffice-gnome
[02:06] <jbailey> ogra, zul, bob2: tahnks. =)
[02:07] <jsgotangco> ogra: edubuntu has an lp team??
[02:07] <ogra> jsgotangco, suure :)
[02:07] <highvoltage> ogra: just joined. launchpad++ :)
[02:07] <ogra> its only some days old yet ...
[02:08] <ajmitch> hi
[02:08] <ogra> morning ajmitch 
[02:08] <ajmitch> ogra: more specs for you? :)
[02:08] <ogra> seems like ....
[02:09] <jsgotangco> hi ajmitch 
[02:09] <ajmitch> hello jsgotangco 
[02:09] <ogra> struggling with my presentation brought me this i guess.... as if werent enough that ooo2 annoys me while working with it, now i'm also supposed to fix it *g*
[02:09] <jsgotangco> dapper ooo2?
[02:11] <ogra> it didnt work for my presentation un breezy... so i think its supposed to be fixed in dapper
[02:11] <ogra> (didnt try the final 2.0 packages yet)
[02:14] <mdke> we need some templates to open openoffice documents in nautilus by right-click
[02:14] <mdke> that would be cool
[02:14] <ogra> i think there is a 'BOF scheduled for it... but dont quote me on that
[02:14] <jsgotangco> that would be nice
[02:15] <ajmitch> morning CaiN_SA 
[02:15] <CaiN_SA> elo
[02:15] <mdke> also having a gnome save file dialogue in openoffice would be very cool
[02:15] <CaiN_SA> how you ?
[02:15] <mdke> so you can select bookmarks
[02:15] <\sh> ajmitch: where r u...
[02:15] <seb128> already discussed on the list
[02:15] <seb128> you can
[02:15] <mdke> ooh
[02:15] <seb128> it's not used by default for stability reasons
[02:15] <ajmitch> \sh: about to head down to breakfast..
[02:15] <ajmitch> \sh: you?
[02:15] <mdke> seb128, the templates, or the save dialogue?
[02:15] <ogra> i guess ooo2 will have improved over the next 6 months, so it might be usable by then
[02:15] <seb128> the second
[02:15] <CaiN_SA> erm sitting in my room
[02:16] <mdke> cool
[02:16] <\sh> ajmitch: already there and trying to drink my 10th coffee
[02:16] <seb128> the templates have already been discussed too
[02:16] <mdke> i filed a bug on the templates but had no reply
[02:16] <seb128> and we decided that's up to the box admin to ship a set of thoses
[02:16] <CaiN_SA> ajmitch, 
[02:16] <ajmitch> \sh: ok, will be down in ~2 min :)
[02:16] <ogra> \sh, youre down again ? 
[02:16] <seb128> mdke, probably because he got assigned to nobody?
[02:16] <\sh> ogra: yepp..
[02:16] <CaiN_SA> hmmmmmmm
[02:16] <mdke> seb128, there was a QA
[02:17] <seb128> ?
[02:17] <\sh> ogra: but i have to head up in a few...to get my gpg stuff on my small baby
[02:17] <CaiN_SA> we gonna go park downstairs in the lobby
[02:17] <ogra> ooooohhhhhhhh, new members for the edubuntu launchpad team :-D
[02:17] <jsgotangco> hehe
[02:17] <mdke> seb128, #17154
[02:18] <ogra> wheee ... approved :)
[02:18] <ogra> jsgotangco, highvoltage, you'll now recognize a little emblem in the box on the left in your account page ;)
[02:18] <seb128> mdke, ah, you filled it on openoffice
[02:18] <jsgotangco> wow i see it
[02:19] <seb128> mdke, not sure what is the right place, but previous discussion states that we don't want to ship templates anyway
[02:19] <mdke> seb128, ok. Which month of the ml archives should I look in for that? I can't see a reason not to do this, windows does it and users will expect it
[02:20] <ogra> jsgotangco, whats "TL" ?
[02:20] <jsgotangco> ogra: Tagalog
[02:20] <ogra> ah... its attached to te flag emblem...
[02:20] <ogra> looks like its separate
[02:20] <seb128> mdke, not sure, it's like 1,5 years old ... dunno if that's one of the current lists, maybe you can mail the list about that to have a new discussion
[02:21] <mdke> oh right
[02:21] <mdke> seb128, i see the discussion about gtk dialogues in september, thanks for pointing that out
[02:21] <mdke> seb128, should I assign that bug away from openoffice2-gnome then?
[02:21] <seb128> mdke, basically you have to make easy for user to get ride of the templates they don't want, and make easy for them to get new one, make easy too for admin to set new ones/for user to no use them
[02:22] <mdke> hmm
[02:22] <mdke> why?
[02:22] <mdke> they don't get in the way
[02:23] <mdke> anyhow we can revert this discussion to the ML, I'm sure you're busy right now
[02:23] <seb128> yeah, I've to go for breakfast
[02:24] <seb128> they do get on the way, if I don't use openoffice (and I don't), I don't want to have my nautilus menu listing those
[02:24] <mdke> hmm
[02:24] <mdke> it's listed in the applications menu, that isn't in the way
[02:25] <mdke> but i take your point
[02:25] <seb128> maybe I masked the applications menu entries with a menu editor? :)
[02:25] <mdke> so we need a template editor :)
[02:26] <seb128> he he
[02:26] <seb128> anyway breakfast time
[02:26] <seb128> see you later
[02:26] <mdke> later
[02:26] <mdke> thanks
[02:30] <CaiN_SA> ajmitch, where you dude ?
[02:32] <\sh> CaiN_SA: he's having breakfast
[02:34] <CaiN_SA> ah ok
[02:34] <CaiN_SA> where you ?\
[02:35] <CaiN_SA> also parking off there ?
[02:37] <\sh> CaiN_SA: in our room just now...on our way down somehow
[02:37] <zul> i suggest the elevator :)
[02:38] <CaiN_SA> lol come to the bar :)
[02:41] <CaiN_SA> cleear
[02:42] <zakame> hi all
[02:43] <CaiN_SA> yo
[03:22] <sivang> morning all :)
[03:23] <ajmitch> morning sivang 
[03:23] <sivang> hey ajmitch
[03:24] <ajmitch> sivang: where are you?
[03:24] <sivang> ajmitch: Ubuntu Love Day quesions about breezy panel
[03:25] <ajmitch> right, so you are here already :)
[03:25] <sivang> yeah :)
[03:52] <frenkel> does anybody know why gnome-btdownload 0.18 was included in breezy? there's a 0.22 already (released in september)
[03:52] <frenkel> the 0.18 version lacks support for changing port numbers and stuff
[03:52] <tseng> because that was well after autosyncs and upstream version change
[03:53] <tseng> *upstream version freeze
[03:53] <frenkel> mm, k
[03:53] <frenkel> but 0.18 was released 24 januari
[03:53] <frenkel> and 0.19 was 4 march
[03:53] <mdke> you can always install the new version
[03:53] <frenkel> i know
[03:54] <frenkel> but was it frozen before march already?
[03:54] <mdke> you have to look at when they came into debian i think
[03:54] <frenkel> ah ok
[03:54] <frenkel> well, lets hope 0.22 will be in dapper then ;)
[03:55] <tseng> you could prepare a diff
[03:56] <frenkel> what do you mean?
[03:57] <Kamion> gnome-btdownload | 0.0.22-1ubuntu1 |        dapper | source, all
[03:57] <Kamion> it's already in dapper
[03:57] <mdke> :)
[03:58] <frenkel> ty :)
[03:58] <frenkel> where can i read that? :p
[03:58] <frenkel> i mean, where did you read that?
[04:00] <\sh> apt-cache madison ,)
[04:00] <frenkel> :p ty
[04:01] <\sh> and have dappers deb-src in your sources list
[04:12] <zakame> hi all
[04:13] <zakame> how do I add myself to LP ubuntumembers list?
[04:14] <spayne> zakame: you can't
[04:14] <spayne> zakame: i was made a member recently but you need sabdfl to add you
[04:14] <spayne> zakame: he is very busy atm so you will just have to wait like me :)
[04:15] <zakame> spayne: ah ok :D
[04:15] <spayne> zakame: when you are added, you also get your ubuntu.com email
[04:15] <spayne> whiprush: ping
[04:15] <jsgotangco> as long as you have singed the CoC =)
[04:15] <spayne> i have signed the CoC
[04:16] <zakame> jsgotangco: I have, since joining :)
[04:16] <jsgotangco> zakame: CC board can add members
[04:17] <spayne> they are all so busy atm
[04:17] <zakame> spayne: yes, I remember you last meet :)
[04:17] <spayne> zakame: :)
[04:17] <zakame> no hurry, just ironing out some wondering :))
[04:18] <spayne> still not on Planet Ubuntu yet
[04:18] <spayne> sigh
[04:18] <jsgotangco> ask a sync from elmo =)
[04:19] <spayne> elmo: when will Planet Ubuntu be synced?
[04:19] <mdke> or alternatively, stop complaining about it
[04:19] <spayne> mdke either way works :)
[04:19] <mdke> i am bugging him quite regularly about it
[04:19] <zakame> haha
[04:19] <spayne> me or elmo?
[04:19] <mdke> but there is a problem and it will take a long time
[04:19] <mdke> so give up for now pls
[04:19] <spayne> mdke: how long is a along time?
[04:19] <zakame> night all
[04:19] <spayne> night zakame
[04:19] <mdke> enough time for you to do loads of work in the documentation team
[04:20] <zakame> or in MOTU :D
[04:20] <spayne> mdke: i have been checking all the iFolder and finishing the Hula stuff
[04:20] <spayne> mdke: as some twit had changed a lot of he iFolder stuff so i was broke
[04:20] <spayne> mdke: the downer of having a Wiki :(
[04:20] <mdke> spayne, if you look at HelpContents you will see how to revert bad changes
[04:21] <spayne> mdke: i reverted them as well as add some stuff
[04:21] <spayne> mdke: it is just bloody annoying
[04:23] <spayne> mdke: i also put in a redirection from the old Hoary iFolder/Hula pages to the new ones
[04:23] <spayne> mdke: so i've been keeping myself busy :)
[04:24] <spayne> mdke: i am then gonna tidy up the Beagle stuff as there is too much and confusing stuff
[04:24] <mdke> you can just delete HulaHowTo
[04:25] <hyperactivecrond> hey all
[04:26] <jsgotangco> mdke: hehehe
[04:26] <mdke> ?
[04:26] <jsgotangco> mdke: the planet thing
[04:27] <mdke> bah
[04:27] <mdke> all the best blogs aren't on planet
[04:28] <highvoltage> my lag is 5.10. should i blame ubuntu? :)
[04:28] <spayne> mdke: like mine ;)
[04:29] <mdke> hmm
[04:30] <spayne> :(
[04:30] <mdke> jsgotangco, anyway, it's all about loco-planets now anyhow
[04:30] <jsgotangco> mdke: im trying the handsfree email thing on dasher
[04:31] <jsgotangco> mdke: we haven't gotten one yet i'm about  to fix the server now
[04:31] <mdke> oh cool
[04:32] <spayne> hey sabdfl
[04:32] <ivoks> hello
[04:32] <sladen> it must be morning over there
[04:34] <Kinnison> yer, 'tis 10:34
[04:34] <jsgotangco> sladen: grooviness personified didn't go to ubz?
[04:35] <Kinnison> couldn't find a way to mooch his way over :-)
[04:36] <jsgotangco> lol
[04:38] <sladen> jsgotangco: well at least whiprush can't blame for spreading any evilflu this time (*ahem*, it has thom's fault anyway)
[04:41] <sladen> Kinnison: 10:34!  Must have been a sunday
[04:45] <mdke> jsgotangco, dasher?
[04:46] <jsgotangco> mdke: predictive text entry 
[04:46] <mdke> cheating em
[04:46] <mdke> em/eh
[04:46] <mdke> nice
[04:47] <jsgotangco> well if you have a device that follows your eyes, it can be used..
[04:47] <mdke> or your hat :)
[04:49] <jsgotangco> i also used kmousetool
[04:49] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:04] <sivan> type something to me in hebrew
[05:04] <sivan> btw - I really ENJOYED our flight chat, made my time fly :)
[05:05] <sivan> ah oops :)
[05:12] <jdub> Kamion: dude, FirstAgainstTheWall wasn't on the spec list! :o we sould totally do that
[05:17] <Kinnison> can irssi be taught not to display channel keys in the status bar?
[05:23] <mdke> Kinnison, keys as in numbers?
[05:23] <Kinnison> mdke: no, channel key as in channel password
[05:24] <mdke> ah
[05:24] <mdke> Kinnison, possibly /help statusbar i guess
[05:24] <Kinnison> mdke: yeah, I think I have to redefine how it formats channel modes, or something equally joy-inducing
[05:25] <mdke> yeah sounds like a fun way to spend 10 minutes
[05:27] <alexbligh> If I want to make a kernel package with 2.6.14 in, what is the best way to go about it? I have followed the instructions on the wiki (et al) and can happily make packages with patched versions of 2.6.12 in, but copying the debian directory into 2.6.14 does not work in an obvious manner
[05:29] <ivoks> :)
[05:30] <ivoks> it's not that simple
[05:31] <ddew|bofh> Hey
[05:31] <zul> alexbligh: you might want to look at the ubuntu git tree at http://www.kernel.org/git
[05:31] <zul> im not sure if it builds yet though 
[05:32] <alexbligh> hmmm - I'll have a look
[05:33] <ddew|bofh> Are there any known bugs in the ppc64 kernel that would cause random sig11s?
[05:34] <alexbligh> zul: thanks. If that builds, it will do what I want.
[05:54] <pkern> Where could I retrieve the breezy netinstall cdr image with ~8 Mb?
[05:55] <fabbione> pkern: archive.ubuntu.com/dists/breezy/main/installer-....
[05:55] <fabbione> (more or less)
[05:56] <pkern> Yeah, I already looked there, but I remember that there was a location with isos in it. In this one there's only a simple directory.
[06:01] <pkern> |:
[06:04] <sabdfl> mjg59: ping
[06:04] <sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+poll/tb-nomination-mjg59-2005/ ;-)
[06:04] <Kamion> pkern: look harder :) http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[06:05] <pkern> Kamion: Oh well, then they are only available for i386 ):
[06:06] <ivoks> urgh...
[06:06] <Kamion> pkern: what arch in particular are you looking for?
[06:06] <ivoks> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/
[06:06] <pkern> Kamion, ppc
[06:07] <Kamion> debian-installer (20051018) unstable; urgency=low
[06:07] <Kamion>   [ Colin Watson ] 
[06:07] <Kamion>   * Build mini.iso images for powerpc and powerpc64 netboot.
[06:07] <Kamion>  -- Joey Hess <joeyh@debian.org>  Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:57:35 -0400
[06:07] <ivoks> uh
[06:07] <Kamion> i.e. I did that recently, will be available for dapper
[06:07] <mdke> congrats mjg59 
[06:07] <pkern> Oh you're Colin... :D
[06:07] <ivoks> :))
[06:08] <Kamion> you can basically just bung all the bits from http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-powerpc/current/images/powerpc/netboot/ onto a CD with an appropriately-munged yaboot.conf, though
[06:08] <Kamion> yes
[06:10] <pkern> Sounds a bit weird because I don't know what to put into the boot block and why the yaboot.conf requires changes (doesn't look wrong)... But I'll probably go for the big install download then. Thanks anyway and please have it ready for dapper. ;)
[06:14] <Kamion> pkern: changes> just to make sure the paths match wherever you put the files on the CD
[06:15] <Kamion> you do need to mess around with an hfs.map file and funny mkisofs options, it's true
[06:15] <Kamion> but there's no need to exhort me to have it ready for dapper; it's already been uploaded to Debian so it will propagate into dapper when I merge debian-installer
[06:15] <Kamion> which is a when, not an if :)
[06:15] <mjg59> sabdfl: Thanks!
[06:15] <pkern> Ah it was a Debian change, fine then. :D
[06:16] <Kamion> right
[06:16] <pkern> I'll run jigdo-lite for now, thanks anyway for your help.
[06:17] <jdub> sabdfl: i didn't even realise the vote was in a working state!
[06:17] <jdub> sabdfl: is that a quorum of members?
[06:17] <sabdfl> mdz: https://launchpad.net/people/techboard/
[06:18] <tseng> i think a quorum would be a bit more than 26 by now
[06:18] <sabdfl> jdub: it's a majority vote, i don't think we wrote any bits about a quorum, good point
[06:18] <\sh> mjg59: congrats :)
[06:18] <sabdfl> mjg59: pretty compelling result
[06:18] <mjg59> sabdfl: Seemingly so
[06:18] <mjg59> How's Montreal (for those over there)?
[06:18] <\sh> sabdfl: but there are more then 26 members...
[06:18] <daniels> mjg59: vancouver is cold and wet
[06:19] <jdub> mjg59: sweet, but "BZ" was FALSE ADVERTISING
[06:19] <mjg59> jdub: Dude, people said that
[06:19] <\sh> mjg59: less then 4 hours of sleep 
[06:19] <dilinger> it snowed most of yesterday in boston
[06:19] <sabdfl> mjg59: off to a good start, considering we stumbled back to the hotel at around 4am this morning
[06:19] <dilinger> today it's like 60F
[06:20] <CaiN_SA> lol sh
[06:20] <CaiN_SA> you tired ?
[06:20] <sabdfl> the wonders of automatic scheduling indeed... less management, more drinking
[06:20] <sabdfl> CaiN_SA: sleep deprivation is normal. liver catastrophe isn't :-)
[06:20] <Kinnison> sabdfl: mmm bze
[06:20] <jdub> sabdfl: maybe we need to apply automatic scheduling to our drinking timetable
[06:20] <CaiN_SA> haha sabdfl 
[06:21] <sabdfl> jdub: i was trying to do time-based rounds of beer
[06:21] <CaiN_SA> sabdfl, who r u ?
[06:21] <Kinnison> sabdfl: so long as that didn't result in regular time-based releases
[06:21] <jdub> sabdfl: oh, man, no wonder my ears are bleeding
[06:21] <\sh> CaiN_SA: the boss ,-) 
[06:21] <CaiN_SA> i dont have hangover or anything
[06:22] <jdub> Kinnison: luckily the releases were predictable and reliable though!
[06:22] <CaiN_SA> everyting is to expensive here ;p
[06:22] <Kinnison> jdub: and well targetted?
[06:22] <CaiN_SA> the boss ?
[06:22] <ogra> \sh, thats an american rock musician
[06:22] <jdub> Kinnison: i can only hope so
[06:22] <tseng> ogra: is it?
[06:22] <dilinger> sabdfl == springsteen?
[06:22] <ogra> dunno, isnt he called like that ? 
[06:22] <zul> springsteen
[06:23] <ogra> *g*
[06:23] <tseng> by the way you guys should knock off all the silliness
[06:23] <tseng> community members will start leaving in a huff
[06:23] <tseng> and rewriting their reviews
[06:23] <ogra> heh
[06:23] <sladen> dilinger: what's 60F in real temperatures?
[06:24] <CaiN_SA> erm
[06:24] <CaiN_SA> dunno really
[06:24] <Kinnison> sladen: approx 15
[06:24] <CaiN_SA> im so confused in this place
[06:24] <CaiN_SA> everything is different to south africa
[06:24] <ajmitch> heh
[06:24] <carstenh> http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&hs=Nxa&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&q=convert+60+grad+fahrenheit+in+celsius&spell=1
[06:25] <CaiN_SA> hmmm ajmitch 
[06:25] <CaiN_SA> havnt seen you yet
[06:25] <ajmitch> yeah, I'm listening to kiko
[06:25] <CaiN_SA> lolol ya as we all are
[06:25] <daniels> ajmitch: i'm sorry to hear that
[06:25] <zul> its not that cold outside
[06:26] <CaiN_SA> multitasking is wonderfull ;0
[06:26] <daniels> it does appear to be 10C outside, which is fine
[06:26] <CaiN_SA> ya
[06:26] <daniels> it's the rain and fog at yvr that concerns me
[06:26] <mdz> mjg59: congratulations
[06:26] <robitaille> jdub,  do you if your map at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide gets updated?
[06:26] <CaiN_SA> but at 3 pm
[06:26] <CaiN_SA> its extremely cold
[06:26] <mdz> mjg59: and thanks for stepping up
[06:26] <ddew|bofh> So, anyone experienced lockups on ppc64 on 5.10?
[06:26] <robitaille> jdub,  it doesn't seems to get updated for quite a while...
[06:26] <mjg59> ddew|bofh: Solid for me
[06:27] <jdub> robitaille: i do it manually atm
[06:27] <jdub> robitaille: i'll run one now
[06:27] <pef> mdz: hello
[06:27] <ddew|bofh> mjg59: Even with sound?
[06:27] <robitaille> jdub,  thanks.  I corrected the guy who put himself by mistake at the South Pole :)
[06:28] <ajmitch> robitaille: so I'm the southernmost person again?
[06:28] <CaiN_SA> yeah prolly ajmitch 
[06:28] <jdub> robitaille: update! update!
[06:28] <ddew|bofh> mjg59: Got any hints/guides I can read?
[06:28] <mjg59> ddew|bofh: That's a point - I've never tried sound
[06:29] <mjg59> ddew|bofh: Uhm. For tracking down lockups? Not really, I'm afraid.
[06:29] <jdub> going to mjg59's house is a good start :)
[06:29] <pef> mdz: I've made some debdiff for breezy-updates, are you the man who check them ?
[06:29] <ddew|bofh> Getting 5.10 to run on ppc64 I meant :)
[06:29] <ddew|bofh> Sound was enabled by default and it seems solid enough for a while but after that it just oopses
[06:29] <ogra> pef, universe ? 
[06:30] <ogra> pef, run them through dholbach or me for preselection to keep the workload for Kamion and mdz low
[06:31] <pef> ogra: ok, and yes, they are for universe
[06:33] <wasabi> hmm looks like the d-i partman ... stops, when changing a part name to "" on macs. ;)
[06:34] <mdke> Seveas, do you know of a way to view those ogg videos on your site without firefox crashing? damn totem keeps crashing on me
[06:36] <pef> ogra: should I list them on a wikipage ? for the moment they are lost in launchpad bug reports (one correct a FTBFS, another one correct a non working apps, another a broken package), I already asked to dholbacj, who adviced me to submit them to mdz or Kamion
[06:38] <ogra> just add the info to the bugreport and notify us about the bug
[06:38] <ogra> s/bug/bugs/
[06:38] <mdz> pef: if they're straightforward, send them to me, otherwise ask ogra for help getting an initial review
[06:39] <pef> ok :)
[06:40] <mdke> no one else get's this on their "update"? Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy-security/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz  Sub-process bzip2 returned an error code (2)
[06:40] <pef> ogra: they are on Malone, #3360, #3142, #2018, #3576, #3350
[06:41] <ogra> pef, ok, i'll look at them this evening i have to listen to some talks...
[06:42] <tseng> dholbach: !
[06:42] <dholbach> yay! :)
[06:42] <ogra> dholbach, whoever of us me first today: <pef> ogra: they are on Malone, #3360, #3142, #2018, #3576, #3350
[06:43] <ajmitch> hey dholbach :)
[06:43] <dholbach> ogra: right
[06:43] <dholbach> pef: thank you
[06:44] <Kamion> wasabi: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1170
[06:44] <Kamion> wasabi: it's surprisingly hard to fix
[06:44] <dholbach> ajmitch: hey andrew
[06:44] <pef> dholbach: which kind of changes are accepted for x-updates ?  
[06:44] <dholbach> pef: urgent, very easily comprehensible ones
[06:45] <Kamion> ogra: just mdz, I'm not reviewing breezy-updates
[06:45] <ogra> oki
[06:45] <pef> dholbach: very small debdiff I presume :)
[06:45] <Kamion> 17:30 < ogra> pef, run them through dholbach or me for preselection to keep the workload for Kamion and mdz low
[06:45] <Kamion> ^-- re that
[06:45] <wasabi> funny.
[06:46] <Kamion> mdz: I just fixed a germinate bug (or at least I think I did, haven't got elmo to test it yet) that, er, accidentally caused everything in extra to end up in all
[06:47] <Kamion> mdz: this bug was in the version of germinate in breezy - once elmo's tested it, can I upload that to breezy-updates?
[07:04] <daniels> lamont-away: if you've not left yet, can you please bring a soldering iron? :)
[07:05] <Treenaks> daniels: where are you then?
[07:06] <daniels> Treenaks: not at home
[07:08] <tseng> daniels: i watched him take a pocket knife through the airport last time
[07:08] <tseng> daniels: we'll see how he does with an iron
[07:09] <daniels> tseng: heh
[07:09] <tseng> we are getting on a plane and lamont says, oh.. i still have my leatherman
[07:24] <wasabi> darnit.
[07:24] <wasabi> The Breezy DVD I just burnted is corrupt.
[07:24] <wasabi> *weep*
[07:41] <Seveas> mdke, foodfight.org is not my site, ask Treenaks :)
[07:41] <mdke> oh sorry doh
[08:48] <Keybuk> *blink*
[08:48] <Keybuk> you know, I have no idea how to upload to ubuntu
[08:49] <Keybuk> I really have out-sourced that knowledge to dupload
[08:53] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: "ftp to upload.ubuntu.com"?
[08:54] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: yeah, I looked in dupload.conf :p
[08:55] <Mithrandir> heh
[09:08] <elmo> Kamion: new germinate is happy - thanks
[09:43] <andi5> hi. i hope you dont mind me asking newbie questions :( can somebody quickly give me a hint where i can get kernel sources from? i mean the 2.6.12 tree configured like my iso? (patched might be enough with /proc/config.gz?)
[09:51] <Mithrandir> andi5: apt-get source linux-image-`uname -r`, but why do you want to do that?
[09:51] <andi5> Mithrandir: i need newer wlan drivers
[09:52] <andi5> Mithrandir: i remember issuing something like apt-get kernel-tree in debian irrc. i will try above now :) thanks a lot!
[09:52] <Mithrandir> they'll probably build outside the tree, so you can just do apt-get install linux-headers-`uname -r` and point the makefile to /usr/src/linux-headers-`uname -r` and it should work.
[09:54] <andi5> Mithrandir: hm, i think i need a "fully configured kernel tree", will see whether this is correct
[09:54] <Mithrandir> yes, my last suggestion should give you that.
[10:06] <andi5> Mithrandir: yeehaw. thank you so much ;-) - make install; depmod; ifup&down and i can remove the cable :)
[10:16] <Kamion> elmo: ok, cool, I'll send that in the direction of breezy-updates too then
[10:34] <ukh> I'm looking at a debian/changelog from an Ubuntu patch and I don't have a clue about Ubuntu...  does "malone" mean anything in the Ubuntu tongue?
[10:35] <\sh> ukh: http://launchpad.net/
[10:35] <\sh> ukh: then bugs
[10:35] <ukh> \sh: thanks!
[10:36] <\sh> ukh: your welcome
[10:38] <\sh> ugh...i'm tired
[10:40] <wasabi> There a Debconf tutorial that describes how to use multiselect anywhere?
[10:40] <madsen> !seen khakionion
[10:40] <madsen> Hmm...
[10:52] <Akatemik> Hi. I was thinking of remastering an ubuntu-livecd for my own needs, biggest difference being a need to make it boot on multiple archs. But I haven't been able to find technical documentation how the livecd-system works on ubuntu.
[10:52] <Akatemik> From seeing how it boots it almost feels as it is installing something and booting to that.
[10:53] <Akatemik> This image is reinforced by the fact that in addition to the cloop-fs the cds contain release-files and deb-packets.
[10:53] <Akatemik> Could someone point me where I could learn about the current system and possibly modify it without reverse engineering everything?
[10:55] <pitti> infinity: already awake?
[10:56] <elmo> isn't he, like, on a plane?
[10:56] <CarlFK> Akatemik - I would ask on the dev list: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
[10:56] <Akatemik> CarlFK: I will, if I no-one answers me on IRC (it should be faster, especially if there's complete documentation somewhere and I'm just blind with my googling). Thanks.
[11:01] <CarlFK> at any one time there are generaly 2 versions of ubuntu "active" - the current one and the one in beta.  do these two have "official" names, like stable/testing, current/beta, thisone/nextone...? 
[11:01] <HrdwrBoB> there's one 'active'
[11:02] <HrdwrBoB> and one for people who know what the name of the next version is
[11:02] <Akatemik> Like dapper?
[11:02] <CarlFK> I was looking for 2 terms that don't change as versions are relased
[11:03] <HrdwrBoB> you really don't
[11:03] <HrdwrBoB> it's not useful
[11:03] <HrdwrBoB> if you set it to 'unstable' (not that it exists) your box will be probably spend 70% of it's time broken
[11:04] <wasabi> There anyway in debconf to make the requirement of one question depend on the answer of another?
[11:04] <wasabi> And then show them all in the same db_go batch.
[11:04] <wasabi> (I am thinking about GUI based debconf)
[11:05] <HrdwrBoB> there may be a link from 'stable' to the current release, but you really don't want to go upgrading your whole OS wily-nily
[11:06] <CarlFK> HrdwrBoB - its forfor human comunications not machine
[11:15] <Kamion> madsen: there's not too much to describe if you already know the rest of debconf; the debconf-devel(7) man page should describe everything you need, I think
[11:15] <Kamion> wasabi: I don't understand "make the requirement of one question depend on the answer of another"
[11:16] <wasabi> Kamion, Well, I have a question "Does your Kerberos 5 configuration have SRV records?"
[11:16] <wasabi> And if not, I want to ask for two server names.
[11:16] <wasabi> But, on a GUI based debconf, It makes sense to display them all on one page.
[11:17] <Kamion> wasabi: you can't do that with only one GO
[11:17] <wasabi> Alas.
[11:17] <wasabi> The UI is going to be pretty nasty, then. Basically little tiny questions per page.
[11:17] <Kamion> you can do that *sort* of thing with clever debconf filtering - oem-config does this kind of thing
[11:17] <Kamion> it's pretty hard to write code like that, but it's possible, providing you're willing to implement the frontend yourself
[11:17] <wasabi> A simple dependency setting on one template for another, which the curses part ignored, but the GUI part disabled/enabled boxes with would be interesting.
[11:18] <Kamion> I don't think dependencies are the right model - I don't think it would be expressive enough
[11:18] <neurogeek> Hello there..
[11:18] <neurogeek> Anyone working with Ubuntu installer??
[11:18] <Kamion> neurogeek: yes
[11:18] <wasabi> Well, you see where I'm going though. The d-i GUI frontend is a bit sucky.
[11:18] <wasabi> Since it's this huge screen.
[11:18] <Mithrandir> s/templates/widgets/
[11:18] <neurogeek> Kamion, hello.. nice meeting you
[11:18] <wasabi> With one little question per screen.
[11:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: indeed
[11:18] <Kamion> perl debconf doesn't support custom widgets yet though
[11:19] <Kamion> cdebconf does but it's (currently) a pig to build them outside the cdebconf tree
[11:19] <Mithrandir> true, but pdebconf is supposed to die a fiery death, so. :-)
[11:19] <Kamion> that needs to be fixed sometime ...
[11:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ... eventually :)
[11:19] <Mithrandir> yeah.
[11:19] <neurogeek> Kamion, im from Venezuela and we are working on a Linux MetaInstaller.. i wanted to see if you guys are interested ..
[11:20] <Kamion> wasabi: I've been hammering away trying to convince the d-i GUI people to buy into custom widgets, but they don't seem to be taking me seriously
[11:20] <Kamion> neurogeek: what's a metainstaller?
[11:20] <wasabi> I dunno. Custom widgets sounds Hard.
[11:20] <Kamion> it's the right answer for much of d-i
[11:20] <Kamion> partman in particular
[11:21] <wasabi> Isn't that doable now?
[11:21] <Simira> someone has to teach me to fix bugs
[11:21] <Kamion> wasabi: in your case, though, you could just ignore the answers to the server name questions if the boolean is false, and phrase the text appropriate
[11:21] <Kamion> ly
[11:21] <Simira> brb
[11:21] <Mithrandir> Simira: easy, go to bugzilla, click "resolve bug"
[11:21] <neurogeek> Kamion, A MetaInstaller is a Installer with the ability to install any Linux distribution (or HURD or BSD) we are so interested in working with Ubuntu.. we already had some perfect tests with it
[11:21] <wasabi> With a custom partman interface for the GUI d-i which just sets debconf variables.
[11:21] <Kamion> wasabi: the guts are there, although they're tricky to build
[11:21] <wasabi> ANd then jumps into the normal partman logic.
[11:21] <Kamion> wasabi: that's one option, but you end up duplicating a lot of code
[11:21] <wasabi> Hmm.
[11:22] <wasabi> Okay, related question. WOrking with a debconf multiselect question.
[11:22] <wasabi> I want to display options such as "Kerberos 5", but I want to code against it easily.
[11:22] <Kamion> neurogeek: patches always welcome, certainly
[11:22] <wasabi> Such as "1"
[11:22] <wasabi> or "krb5"
[11:22] <wasabi> I can't find much of a reference about debconf multiselect.
[11:23] <neurogeek> Kamion, when you've got the time.. visit http://www.latinux.org/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=8 there are some screenshot.. although they are in spanish, you can see the screens 
[11:23] <Kamion> wasabi: traditional solution is to put "krb5" in the templates file and make the English translation in en.po be "Kerberos 5"
[11:23] <wasabi> Ahhh!
[11:23] <wasabi> Smart.
[11:23] <Kamion> I much prefer code to screenshots :-)
[11:23] <Kamion> neurogeek: is it based on d-i?
[11:24] <Mithrandir> wasabi: are you at UBZ?
[11:24] <neurogeek> Kamion, it is a Web based Installer.. it can install locally, remotely and massively
[11:24] <wasabi> No.
[11:24] <neurogeek> Kamion, sorry.. d-i??
[11:24] <neurogeek> ah
[11:24] <neurogeek> no
[11:24] <Mithrandir> wasabi: you should have been, since I have the "remote authentication" bof tomorrow.
[11:24] <Kamion> neurogeek: the Debian installer, which we use
[11:24] <neurogeek> it is not..
[11:24] <wasabi> Can't afford it.
[11:25] <neurogeek> Kamion, no.. it is based on Python +  Javascript.. entirely from scratch
[11:25] <Mithrandir> neurogeek: d-i is flexible enough to do a Hurd or BSD install using.
[11:25] <Mithrandir> somebody just needs to sit down and do it.
[11:25] <Kamion> neurogeek: I don't think we'll be shifting to a different installer, and we don't have the resources to maintain two installers, but ideas on making installers work better with derivative distributions are certainly welcome
[11:26] <Kamion> I did a fair bit of the Hurd support for d-i a while back - I just need time to persuade the thing to boot, which is the hardest bit
[11:26] <Kamion> (since booting into the Hurd without a hard-disk-backed root filesystem is tricky)
[11:26] <neurogeek> Mithrandir, yes.. but what about installing other Linux distros??
[11:27] <Kamion> neurogeek: I think that's best left to those distros' installers
[11:27] <Mithrandir> neurogeek: if they're debian-based, it's trivial.  If they're not, then it's a bit more work, but certainly doable.
[11:27] <Kamion> at any rate, I don't think it's a problem we want to try to solve in Ubuntu; others are certainly welcome to try :)
[11:27] <Mithrandir> if somebody paid me enough $money||$booze, I guess I could hack it in, just for the hack value.
[11:28] <neurogeek> Kamion, Well.. thanks anyways.. I will be sending some news later on to the ubuntu list anyway to let you know we'll be doing some more work with it.. thanks a lot
[11:28] <Kamion> in the Ubuntu installer, we need to deal with the various distributions based on Ubuntu; that's enough work for me for now, I think ;)
[11:28] <Kamion> rpm base system installation support in d-i would be good to have, for completeness
[11:28] <Mithrandir> I've been toying about the idea of using d-i for opensolaris
[11:28] <Kamion> but there are technical problems with having an installer whose infrastructure differs too widely from the distribution it's installing
[11:29] <Kamion> you really want to build it out of the relevant distribution
[11:29] <neurogeek> Mithrandir, Kamion I now.. it just part of the goods we've try to bring.. ;)
[11:29] <wasabi> Simple sh help: I have a string such as "krb5, ldap" and I want to execute a command once per item.
[11:29] <Kamion> it may be easier once we move everything into the first stage rather than the two-stage system we have now
[11:30] <tseng> wasabi: any chance you can get the string w/o commas?
[11:30] <wasabi> Sure.
[11:30] <wasabi> simple sed.
[11:30] <Mithrandir> wasabi: for i in $(sed -e 's/,//g') ; do $whatever; done
[11:30] <Kamion> or IFS=", "
[11:30] <tseng> then just 'for i in $blah; do foo; done
[11:30] <Akatemik> Anyone working with ubuntu-live?
[11:30] <wasabi> Hmm. Guess that works without spaces.
[11:30] <Kamion> Akatemik: the metapackage? it's automatically generated from seed lists
[11:31] <Mithrandir> I hate adjusting IFS. :-)
[11:31] <Akatemik> Kamion: I mean the project as whole
[11:31] <Kamion> Akatemik: you're in the right channel; speak :)
[11:31] <Akatemik> I'd like someone to give me a quick tour on what happens between inserting the cd and X starting up, or pointing me to a right doc.
[11:31] <wasabi> Hmm. Okay. ANother one. I have two lists seperated by ,.  I want to union them.
[11:31] <wasabi> Heh.
[11:32] <Akatemik> I'm planning on some quite heavy customizing, so I need to know how it works.
[11:32] <tseng> wasabi: foo="$bar $baz" ?
[11:32] <wasabi> without dups.
[11:32] <tseng> uniq them first
[11:32] <wasabi> Guess I could run them thru sort and uniq
[11:34] <Kamion> Akatemik: the first half of it is the same as the first half of the regular Ubuntu installer (i.e. language, country, keyboard, hardware detection, network configuration)
[11:34] <Kamion> Akatemik: after that, control is transferred to casper
[11:34] <Kamion> probably the best answer to your question at the moment is to point you to the casper source package; you'll probably end up hacking it anyway
[11:34] <Akatemik> Kamion: It did look like it's somehow installing something and then booting on that. Which is weird for a livecd
[11:35] <Kamion> Akatemik: ? no
[11:35] <Akatemik> I tried to look into casper, but google didn't give much. Also it doesn't seem to be in breezy universe.
[11:35] <Kamion> it mounts a compressed loop filesystem and transfers control to it
[11:35] <Kamion> it's in breezy MAIN, not universe :-)
[11:35] <Akatemik> I did found it on the pool, though.
[11:35] <Kamion> having stuff we depended on for the live CD in universe would not be allowed
[11:36] <Kamion> 'apt-get source casper'
[11:36] <Akatemik> Well, my laptop that runs breezy doesn't show it with apt-cache, hmm...
[11:36] <Kamion> it's not a .deb, so you won't find it with tools that acquire normal binary packages
[11:36] <Mithrandir>     casper |       1.18 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Sources
[11:36] <Kamion> casper.dsc => casper-check.udeb + casper-udeb.udeb
[11:37] <Akatemik> Kamion: Ah
[11:37] <Kamion> Akatemik: note that the core of the installer and the live CD both is a minimal system which installs extra stuff into itself in order to know how to do the rest of its job; that may be what you're seeing
[11:37] <Akatemik> Kamion: The weird part was when there was the ubuntu-splash and messages below it, like on a normal boot.
[11:37] <wasabi> Oh. Great. Hmmm.
[11:37] <wasabi> HMMM. Okay. Heres a question. This might not have a good answer.
[11:38] <wasabi> I have seperated a series of debconf based scripts into 2 files in my packages, which I want to source dynamically based on answers to questions in the base .config.
[11:38] <Mithrandir> Akatemik: that's because that's really what it does.
[11:38] <wasabi> Since .config runes before unpack, is this even possible?
[11:39] <wasabi> I guess I need to move my logic to postinst.
[11:39] <Mithrandir> make the fragments into functions.
[11:39] <wasabi> Trying to avoid that... but yeah, that's an answer.
[11:40] <Akatemik> Ok, I'll start looking into casper
[11:40] <wasabi> Actually it has occured to me just now that I think I have to have these in postinst, as they use dig.
[11:40] <wasabi> which isn't part of base.
[11:40] <Mithrandir> s/base/Essential: yes/
[11:40] <Akatemik> Kamion: Installs extra parts into itself, that explains the pool directory?
[11:40] <Akatemik> And dists
[11:41] <Kamion> Akatemik: right
[11:41] <Akatemik> Kamion: How come the installer doesn't have all those parts "installed" by default?
[11:42] <Kamion> wasabi: indeed, you can't rely on anything much in the filesystem in .config, save for Essential: yes packages and debconf itself
[11:42] <Akatemik> It seems like an useless level of complexity to play with debs in a livecd
[11:42] <Kamion> Akatemik: they're not debs, they're installer components
[11:42] <Kamion> different
[11:42] <Kamion> we will be simplifying the live CD in dapper, though
[11:43] <Akatemik> Kamion: Just after I get the hang of the current process :)
[11:43] <Kamion> Akatemik: the core of the installer is used in a number of different situations, which don't all use the same pieces; this system gives us more flexibility
[11:43] <Akatemik> Kamion: Hmm, ok.
[11:43] <Kamion> also, it has some benefits in low-memory environments, etc.
[11:43] <Akatemik> Kamion: It would just seem that loading the cloop-image and running from there would have all the necessary components
[11:43] <Kamion> and for maintainability - don't want to have to rebuild the core of the installer every time we change, say, the partitioner
[11:43] <Mithrandir> I have noticed that "installer which installs packages into itself" breaks people's minds, while it's really sweet.
[11:44] <Kamion> Akatemik: it does, once we get far enough to be able to load said cloop image
[11:44] <Akatemik> Kamion: Isn't cloop support in the kernel?
[11:44] <Kamion> Akatemik: like almost everything else, it's modular
[11:45] <Mithrandir> you don't want a custom kernel for the live cd.
[11:45] <Kamion> our kernel packages spit out loop-modules-*.udeb with the relevant module
[11:45] <Akatemik> Mithrandir: You don't?
[11:45] <Mithrandir> or for the installer CD either.
[11:45] <Kamion> it's not in the installer core, because it doesn't need to be in the installer core :-)
[11:45] <Kamion> Akatemik: definitely not
[11:45] <Kamion> the big focus of doing the live CD this way was maintainability; one kernel, one hardware detection strategy, etc.
[11:45] <Kamion> now that it's settled down, we can make it faster
[11:45] <Akatemik> Hmm. The mindset is quite different from my previous debian vs. knoppix one.
[11:46] <wasabi> Cool. Done and works.
[11:46] <Akatemik> Using one system for both...
[11:46] <Mithrandir> Akatemik: no, because then it's even more painful to maintain, and you get problems with the live cd kernel not booting on $obscure_piece_of_hardware while other kernels work.
[11:46] <Kamion> yes, we started out with morphix and had a lot of problems with it
[11:46] <bur[n] er> (but fast ;)
[11:46] <Kamion> most of the existing live CD systems seemed to share a number of the basic problems we were encountering, so we decided to rethink it from scratch
[11:46] <Akatemik> Frankly, I have to admid that I haven't yet decided which distro I will use as the base for my project.
[11:47] <Kamion> bur[n] er: except for the poor sod who had to spend two weeks putting together the warty live CD for just one architecture and trying to make it sort of work
[11:47] <bur[n] er> alex? :)
[11:47] <Akatemik> For a start ubuntu seemed nice, because it works quite well automatically. Like knoppix, but it is so over optimized that remastering didn't seem that trivial.
[11:47] <Kamion> with the (then) new architecture, we got three architectures for free with very little ongoing effort
[11:48] <Kamion> bur[n] er: alex was supposed to be doing it but didn't deliver; somebody else had to step itn
[11:48] <Kamion> in
[11:48] <Akatemik> And just before the ubuntu system seemed like overloaded with complexity :) But it might be that the system makes keeping up with releases a lot easier for me.
[11:48] <Kamion> there is certainly a fair bit of complexity in the current system, some of which is unnecessary
[11:49] <Kamion> I'll be the first (well, maybe second) of the responsible developers to admit that it needs work :-)
[11:49] <Mithrandir> Akatemik: you've looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo ?
[11:50] <Akatemik> Mithrandir: Yes, I've used it as a base for my project
[11:50] <Akatemik> Mithrandir: Without that I doubt I would have even began with ubuntu
[11:50] <CarlFK> should http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/breezy/release/ only have DVD images?
[11:50] <Mithrandir> heh, 'k
[11:51] <Kamion> CarlFK: yeah, the rest are on http://releases.ubuntu.com/breezy/
[11:51] <Kamion> CarlFK: there should probably be a link
[11:51] <Akatemik> Kamion: You wouldn't happen to have a mailing list or something for dapper-live, so I could follow the devel?
[11:53] <Kamion> Akatemik: it's not split off from the rest of Ubuntu development at the moment, so just ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[11:53] <Akatemik> Kamion: Ok
[11:56] <Akatemik> Kamion: BTW, are you on x86 or all platforms?
[11:56] <tseng> x86, ppc, and amd64 are fully supported
[11:56] <tseng> there are other archs in various stages
[11:57] <tseng> ports.ubuntu.com
[11:57] <Akatemik> tseng: That hardly means that all the devs know about all of those...
[11:58] <tseng> im not sure how that is relevant
[11:58] <Akatemik> tseng: It's relevant if I want to ask Kamion ppc-questions.
[11:58] <tseng> meh, kamion specifically
[11:58] <Kamion> Akatemik: I have all three
[11:58] <Kamion> at the moment I'm on powerpc
[11:59] <Akatemik> Kamion: Great, since ppc is the one that doesn't even boot yet
[11:59] <Kamion> what sort of powerpc, and what are you trying to boot?
[11:59] <Akatemik> I'm doing a x86/ppc hybrid livecd, and testing on an ibook
[12:00] <Kamion> I've done a hybrid, but only once; I did get it to at least boot
[12:00] <Akatemik> x86 boots and fails when starting xdm, but goes to console so I've reached the first milestone there
[12:00] <Kamion> I assume you know all the mkisofs options you need
[12:00] <Akatemik> I finally got bored how nobody makes hybrid livecds and began to make my own
[12:00] <Akatemik> Kamion: I think so, I use the ones given in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDCustomizationHowTo
[12:01] <Akatemik> But it gave me "Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable mount root fd on unknown-block(0,1)"
[12:01] <Kamion> before getting as far as d-i?
[12:02] <Kamion> sounds like it can't find the initrd; did you keep all the files in the same locations relative to the root of the CD, particularly the stuff in /install/?
[12:02] <Akatemik> Kamion: Frankly I don't know. I haven't tested it myself, I had my friend on it. I have to go there physically tomorrow to speed up deving
[12:03] <Akatemik> Kamion: I separated x86 and ppc into their own folder, ppc is in i-ppc
[12:03] <Akatemik> Afterwards I changed the references in yaboot.conf