=== WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-111.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz [n=belutz@202.155.150.210] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burglaptop [n=corey@66.103.220.253] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:57] how far from being complete is the userguide? === rob^ thinks about rescuing a lot of it for the desktop guide === mdke thinks he made that proposal last week and it was accepted [12:58] just taking a look now.. [12:58] the idea is to use the userguide to make the desktop guide a bit more user friendly [12:58] it wasn't validating either, fixed that [12:59] hmm [01:00] I wonder if its eaiser to just gut the stuff that hasn't been done from the userguide, add in some faq guide and pretty it up [01:00] no i don't think so [01:00] some eye of nute etc.. [01:01] are you suggesting releasing both a desktop guide and a userguide? [01:01] no [01:01] I'm just thinking that we could merge the two (but not make it so long) [01:02] and obviously that would involve removing the qanda format from the faq guide [01:02] i think the best way is to continue to work on the desktopguide but use bits from the userguide to expand some sections where explanations are important [01:03] yeah sure [01:04] this might take a while :) [01:05] I suppose we don't need the intro to linux, and installing ubuntu === Burglaptop is now in Montreal [01:07] hi corey [01:07] hello [01:07] rob^, the server guide will take longer [01:07] heh [01:08] I thought about all kinds of useless things for it last night, like managing printers etc === Belutz [n=belutz@202.155.150.210] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke has an immense headache [02:20] that sucks [02:20] it is more of a moral headache === rob^ makes several changes to DesktopGuide on wiki [02:20] ? [02:20] i'm tired after trying to make a website work with IE [02:20] heh [02:20] i think I've more or less tamed it though [02:21] I know that pain [02:21] my problem is that I do trial and error because I never actually took the time to learn what css means [02:21] oh [02:21] ;) [02:21] check it out [02:21] http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/ [02:22] mmm pretty [02:22] http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp <- thats helpful [02:22] reading ugh [02:22] bookmarking === jjesse [i=user@69-87-142-105.async.iserv.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:23] any tips for that site? [02:23] it looks pretty much like its meant to [02:23] evning [02:23] hi jjesse [02:23] hi jjesse [02:25] rob^, got IE handy? [02:25] on help.ubuntu.com can we get the kubuntu docs loaded under "documentation" [02:25] I think I still have it in wine [02:25] mdke i do [02:25] connected via windows box tonight [02:26] jjesse, can you look at http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/ and tell me if the icon has a transparent background [02:26] no thats right I removed it, sorry [02:26] and also if there are any other errors [02:26] about kubuntu and kreleasenotes need to be added to doc. ubuntu.com [02:26] jjesse, are they complete? [02:26] i meant help.ubuntu.com sorry [02:26] yeah [02:26] those are the docs that went w/ the release [02:26] ok [02:27] i can find them in branches/breezy? [02:27] they have stylesheets now? [02:27] mdke http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/ those look good [02:27] the icon is transparent? [02:27] so do we want to kill the qanda format of the desktop guide? [02:27] rob^, i do, but i think we should discuss all together at a meeting [02:27] dam, thats a whole week away [02:28] plenty of time [02:28] lots to do [02:28] if we do, I have a plan for the layout on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopGuide [02:28] changing the layout? [02:28] argh [02:28] no, just to more fit in with a book style [02:29] that good english me did [02:29] yeah that looks good [02:29] mdke yes those docs have the stylesheet [02:30] i would have another section on what ubuntu is and gnu and linux and such [02:30] jjesse, oh, i didn't see any changes on the commit list, must have missed em. lemme try now [02:30] mdke, I was thinking about that [02:30] might pull it from the ug [02:30] yes [02:31] mdke pardon my ignorance but do they have to be built a different way for .html? [02:31] jjesse [02:31] the problem is that they look like this: [02:31] http://help.ubuntu.com/about-kubuntu/C/ [02:31] because they are using the kde system stylesheet [02:32] instead of the kubuntu stylesheet? [02:32] we can't host them like that [02:32] instead of the web stylesheet [02:32] oh ok, sorry a little slow on learning, so if i ask silly questions let me know [02:32] or some other stylesheet [02:32] if you set it to use the same stylesheet as the adept guide uses in trunk, that will be fine [02:34] i'll have a look tomorrow if you don't succeed [02:34] ok [02:34] don't you hate it when you grab a bottle of wine out of the fridge, take a sip and realize it has been open to long :( [02:35] yum [02:36] heh [02:47] rob^, if you reload/go to the page again, is it better or worse? [02:48] excepting the rubbish hackergotchi of course [02:50] still looks ok to me [02:51] want me to check IE? [02:51] jjesse, ok if you don't mind, it should work tho [02:51] rob^, better or worse dammit [02:51] i don't mind that is http://help.ubuntu-it.org/output/ ? [02:51] yeah [02:52] what did you change? [02:52] i don't see much of a difference [02:52] i put the title in line with the main post text and moved everything left [02:53] anyway, at least it's working [02:53] well I guess that makes it look neater [02:53] looks fine w/ me [02:53] thanks [02:53] i have been bashing my head against IE [02:53] IE sucks :) [02:53] yep [02:54] what are the fonts like of that page in IE? [02:54] can't get my modem to play nice w/ ubuntu for some reason so i still have a windows box that i use @ home [02:54] yeah modems suck too [02:55] what kind of modem? [02:55] LT Win MOdem :( [02:55] that should work with a 2.4 kernel [02:56] and the ltmodem drivers of cause [02:56] i'll have to try again [02:56] I've had problems with 2.6 [02:57] what I did was set up an old box with smoothwall which uses the 2.4 kernel still [02:57] we are moving to cable modem soon so i'm not in a big hurry to worry bout it [02:57] ah [02:57] yeah dialup sucks [02:58] getting bb is the best thing I've done since owning a computer [02:58] computer related of cause ;) [02:59] try troubleshooting work computer problems over dial up -> vpn and then a terminal server connection [02:59] then you relaize how much it sucks [02:59] haha [02:59] I bet that was slow [02:00] it is slow i do it all the time [02:00] but i can write some of my broadband expenses off my tax's [02:00] yeah same :) [02:00] when i need to do a lot of work, i borrow my neighbor's wireless connection that is open and i can connect to :) [02:02] good thinking [02:02] hehe [02:03] so rob^ what country are you in? [02:03] australia [02:03] ah i'm in michigan in the united states [02:04] ah === rob^ wonders what they decided to do with the next cc meeting [02:06] you didn't get an email? [02:06] from dennis? [02:06] what's your address? [02:06] its sunday so I haven't been at work since friday [02:06] thats where the emails are going [02:06] oh [02:07] night y'all [02:07] i could forward the one i have to a different location? [02:07] night mdke [02:07] mdke before you go [02:07] sure [02:07] the clocks have gone back anyhow [02:07] i cant make a 1400 friday meeting -> christmas party on that night [02:07] 22/23? === rob^ will be drunk on a boat somewhere [02:08] sure, I'll probably be pretty hung over though [02:08] we'll see when most people are free [02:08] cool [02:08] ok bye mdke [02:08] byee [02:10] hmm getting ready for bed, have to be up early [02:11] hmm, lunch time soon [03:22] hi all [03:33] anyone know if the creator of CommandlineHowto - DagRuneSneeggen - has been here or on the doc list? [03:33] CommandLineHowto looks like it'll be impressive; I'm wondering if the basic/intro stuff should be rolled into BasicCommands at some point === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:01] bonsoir robitaille [04:02] Hey Burglaptop. So are you in Montreal yet? [04:04] indeed [04:05] Burglaptop: good flight? [04:05] more sardinny that usual [04:05] the flight from vancouver was mostly full [04:05] which airline? [04:05] AC [04:05] Air Communism! ;) [04:06] Air I-get-no-breakfast [04:06] that's just the planned famine in action, comrade! [04:06] and Air I-get-no-snack-even-when-I-ask-for-it [04:08] Burglaptop: Doug says he still thinks AC service is better than most US airlines... how's that for a sobering thought? [04:10] ouch [04:10] night [04:11] later === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz [n=belutz@202.155.150.210] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:02] any plans to customise man pages in the future? [11:02] i haven't heard of any [11:02] what did you have in mind? [11:03] i just looked at apt-proxy(8), and it refers to a "deb http://SERVER:9999/debian stable main contrib non-free" [11:04] i think it would be nice to get those man pages in a kind of document system and edit them for ubuntu, but i don't have any idea where one would start with such a process. [11:04] i don't have anything in mind, really, just something i'm thinking about, wondering if there's already a solution being divised. [11:04] not with us [11:05] that would be likely to be on the -devel side [11:05] interesting. [11:08] mdke: excuse my ignorance, what is the current doc-team plans? is it to use the wiki for documentation, or svn, and is there a defined scope of documentation the docteam will cover? === highvoltage looks on wiki for more info to... [11:09] highvoltage: we're going to take over the world, actually, using secret mind-control docs... but if I told you more, I'd have to kill you :) === mdke nods [11:09] highvoltage, DocteamProjects is the central page to check [11:09] Madpilot: excellent. [11:10] ah, i see. [11:12] what time is the doc-team meeting taking place on 4 november? [11:12] 1400 ZULU, I think [11:13] highvoltage: what you were saying about man pages, thats why I avoid universe as much as possible [11:13] we need to reconsider the time though [11:13] universe isn't up to the same standard as main [11:13] linuxboy, apt-proxy is in universe? [11:15] adrian@turtle:~$ apt-cache show apt-proxy [11:15] Package: apt-proxy [11:15] Priority: extra [11:15] Section: universe/admin [11:15] uh huh [11:15] linuxboy: i don't think the man pages in main are customised either. [11:16] still, universe is just slapped together === python_ [n=python@82-36-150-185.cable.ubr03.perr.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:16] gosh [11:17] i agree that main is much cleaner than universe, it's only to be expected. but i think to say that univers is just slapped together is harsh. [11:17] when the new docs have been created does this mean the old wiki will become dead? [11:17] python_, eh? [11:17] ogra and the motu team puts in lots of man-hours to keep the universe in shape. [11:17] i don't understand the question [11:18] highvoltage: ok... when compairing universe to main, it seems slapped together [11:18] because main is really really good [11:18] highvoltage, yeah but starting from debian each time means that they have to keep putting in man hours and can't fix everything [11:19] linuxboy: i think it's just because main is really, really good *shrug* [11:19] well, ubuntu now have a help.ubuntu and an official document guide, so does tht mean the wiki we normally use will carry on as normal or will become unactive [11:19] universe isn't at all bad, compared to debian, or even to what is officially supported in many, many other distros. [11:19] python_, no the wiki will continue [11:20] python_, it provides unofficial documentation [11:20] ok [11:20] python_, however, we are thinking of moving the pages to help.ubuntu.com to have them together with the other documents [11:21] see https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/better-wiki-docs [11:21] What makes the document official does it have to be signed off by the ubuntu doc team [11:21] python_, yes, that's the idea [11:21] the wiki is open to ALL to edit, so anyone can introduce a mistake unintentionally [11:22] but it also has a greater sphere of input [11:22] so advantages and disadvantages... [11:22] how do i go about contributing to the official doc [11:22] python_, see http://doc.ubuntu.com, join our mailing list, download our repository etc [11:23] ask here if you need help [11:23] cheers [11:24] Are there any software tools to help creating your Documentation [11:24] well yes [11:24] it is not too hard [11:24] but you need to get used to docbook xml a little [11:25] it is quick to learn [11:25] you can use something like gedit or bluefish to edit [11:25] ill be okay, i am a fully fledged eek ;-) [11:25] geek [11:25] ah cool [11:25] coder by heart [11:25] from the uk? [11:25] <-- uk [11:25] yea [11:25] but i can do good doc too [11:25] heh [11:26] i have a degree and achieved first class hons [11:26] great well we'll look forward to seeing some of your patches! [11:26] so can write good documentation too [11:27] i dont get time to do any patches or contribution as im working on my own project at minnute [11:27] in time i hope to join and contribute towards GNOME [11:27] cool [11:28] Looking at some of the things to do with TANGO in GNOME i think GNOME is going to be quite cool [11:28] i am a gnome fan myself [11:28] already is but will be even better [11:29] so what puts u off KDE [11:30] nothing [11:30] i just like GNOME [11:31] mdke bluefish is great but i wish they would sort the problem out of its syntax highlighting [11:31] its a major downfall [11:31] it highlights docbook xml ok for me [11:31] i haven't used it much with other things [11:32] have u never noticed it looses its syntax highlighting [11:32] i now use Jedit [11:32] great open source editor === Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.210] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:38] mdke thanks for info [11:38] np === python_ [n=python@82-36-150-185.cable.ubr03.perr.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-70.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Kaiser@ppp193-59.lns1.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaise1 [n=Kaiser@ppp134-157.lns2.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaise1 [n=Kaiser@ppp134-157.lns2.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burglaptop [n=corey@66.103.220.253] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Kaiser@ppp134-157.lns2.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-8.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:17] hey Burglaptop [04:19] salut [04:19] hey corey [04:19] listening to Jeff talk right now [04:19] salut mdke [04:21] Burglaptop: is it fun? [04:22] indeed [04:24] oh, that's fucking great, only now do I notice that the authentication database isnt available on the wiki! [04:24] been writing about 50 new lines on my howto >_< [04:24] gone like a fucking fart in the wind! [04:24] bloody crap [04:24] mdke: hello from here [04:25] spayne, if a empty page isn't linked anywhere on the wiki, you can delete it, you don't need a redirect [04:25] Burglaptop: uphold the dokteam kause! [04:25] mdke: i wasn't sure what to do, there was the old HulaHowto and my new Hula, BuildingHula and InstallingHula [04:25] mdke: how do i delete a page? [04:25] gah [04:25] you read the wiki documentation! [04:25] #""%#&#$$ === the--dud dies [04:26] mdke: WikiGuide said to put a redirect and not delete [04:26] bloody hell [04:26] it says that deleting breaks links [04:27] if there are no links, that is not a problem [04:28] spayne, when I said "please read WikiGuide", i should have said "please read and take the time to understand WikiGuide" [04:28] anyhow, it's not a big deal making a redirect [04:29] i was just trying to help you understand when it is necessary and when it isn't [04:29] mdke: i understand now [04:29] cool [04:29] mdke: these tid bits are very useful - thanks [04:29] mdke: i might get there ONE day ;) === hyperactivecrond [i=user@adsl-68-252-94-68.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:30] i'm sure you will [04:30] just read the docs === hyperactivecrond [i=user@adsl-68-252-94-68.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [04:36] mdke: do you happen to know how controls the dns for loco domains? [04:41] who? [04:41] sure matthias ulrichs [04:41] got his email? [04:42] yes [04:42] i'll just email him [04:43] yah [04:43] got your own server or using his? [04:44] well henrik set us up a serverpronto [04:44] just for tl? [04:44] whoa [04:44] that is major overkill! [04:44] well we'll have to share it with someone else for sure [04:44] ah fair enough [04:44] sure it only has 101GB of hdd free [04:45] lol === Burglaptop [n=corey@66.103.220.253] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burglaptop [n=corey@66.103.220.253] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:10] grr [05:14] Uno? hahaha [05:16] bloody wireless keeps dying on me [05:16] works for me :) [05:17] what time is it there? past lunch? === Burglaptop [n=corey@66.103.220.253] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:42] bloody wireless dying on me [05:43] Burglaptop: clearly you just suck :-) [05:43] right [05:44] Glad you agree :-) [05:47] Burglaptop: boo! [05:54] Burglaptop: you had to as, didn't you? ;) [05:54] s/as/ask/ [05:55] his wireless is broken again :-) === corey_ [n=corey@66.103.220.253] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke gets into another slanging match on the forums [06:21] :/ [06:21] no matter how many times I try, every thread I join always ends in disharmony [06:22] which forums? the official ones, or the marketing ones? [06:22] too many forums.... I hate forums compared to mailing lists. [06:22] forums are flame baits [06:22] mdke: /nick Mars [06:24] you get lots of silly threads in forums and its unfortunate that some n00bs who come to forums are the antisocials [06:25] the official forums [06:25] start at post 57 here [06:25] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=77704&page=6 [06:26] New User Literature [06:27] uh oh [06:27] nah that is ok [06:27] is gets worse on page 7 [06:29] oh well === mdke gives up with forums [06:29] i can just post and say we don't support crack [06:29] hehe [06:29] argh [06:29] and ruin all my hard work with diplomacy? [06:30] but since its a 3rd party project i'll just look at it [06:30] it's true that the ubuntuguide was essentially the driving force behind our faqguide though [06:30] so we benefitted from its existence [06:30] sure but people like crack... [06:31] i don't think that's the point [06:31] we can produce docs that people like [06:31] i am against two guides because i don't like the idea of an official and an unofficial "competing" [06:32] and because I don't think the ubuntuguide will have quality control like the docteam can have [06:32] well just in case you didn't know chua did fedoraguide before and created quite a stir in the fedora community as well [06:32] lol i didn't know that [06:33] but the fedora docs are pretty poor actually [06:33] drbyte had a thing or two to say about that incident [06:33] fucking totem built into firefox is such a pain [06:33] firefox keeps crashing === jsgotangco learned about it after hanging out in #iosn [06:34] so basically what was written in fedora before was crack and was just transferred to ubuntu heh [06:35] well in any case ubuntuguide was a useful and popular resource [06:35] but we need to move forward [06:36] i'll just let it be if you ask me [06:36] yeah i'm gonna stop now [06:36] but i had to reply after he wrote "it'll be ok" [06:37] i hate being patronised [06:37] yeah [06:37] i'll just post to voice my opinion [06:37] don't say bad stuff about the ubuntuguide [06:37] nope [06:38] it's just a question of development management really [06:38] CRACKERS [06:38] heh [06:42] COME ON THE DAPPER DUCK! [06:42] he has his bill in front by a clear 40 votes === Burglaptop [n=corey@66.103.220.240] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:00] jsgotangco, can we arrange a new time for the meeting next week? [07:00] 1400 all the time is a shame [07:01] yeah [07:01] we should revolve scheds again [07:01] a later one would be good for me [07:04] although im about to start my new job in a few days, definitely 22:00 meetings are a no no [07:04] your time or UTC? [07:04] UTC [07:05] wouldnt' that be saturday morning for you? [07:05] oh right... [07:05] i forgot [07:05] i thought we were still doing the thursday thing... [07:05] 8am brisbane time, I think [07:06] yep === apokryphos [n=apokryph@70.85.216.98] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke installs moin on his home server [07:39] weeeeee [07:40] i need to install moin at some point. i've only installed mediawiki at varios places. [07:41] it is ridiculously difficult to install [07:41] henrik is in near death throes as we speak [07:41] what does that mean? [07:41] is he having health problems? [07:41] no no [07:41]