[02:00] <arkan0x> mhz_dinner, ?? tai
[02:33] <mhz> arkan0x: ping
[04:17] <mhz> re
[06:54] <corey_> http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1010
[01:11] <Yagisan> mhz: ping
[02:46] <patber> hello. i have a question. can i use a 64bit as a terminal server and 32bit terminals?
[02:47] <Yagisan> patber: yes - but that patch is not in the edubuntu release based on breezy
[02:48] <Yagisan> patber: any reason you would like to do that ? (I run 64bit server with 32bit clients)
[02:49] <patber> i would like to use an amd64 server
[02:50] <patber> i'm not sure if the 32 client would boot
[02:50] <Yagisan> patber: In 64bit mode, or 32bit compatibility mode ?
[02:50] <patber> i'm not sure if the 32 client would boot
[02:50] <patber> 32bit mode for the clients
[02:50] <Yagisan> patber: In the current edubuntu setup, amd64 servers can not boot i386 (32bit) clients
[02:51] <Yagisan> patber: you can run 32bit edubuntu on amd64, and boot 32bit clients
[02:51] <patber> so i should use an 32bit server?
[02:52] <Yagisan> patber: with 64bit edubuntu you don't get non-free things like flash in firefox eg
[02:52] <patber> do you get more performance with your 64bit server?
[02:53] <Yagisan> patber: In some apps yes, in others it is actually slower. I built it as 64bit, as I need 64bit software development
[02:53] <patber> i see. thank you for your help.
[02:53] <Yagisan> patber: I had to stuff around setting up a 32bit chroot for firefox+flash+java
[02:54] <Yagisan> patber: at the moment, if you have less then 3/4GB RAM and you want your system to just work
[02:54] <Yagisan> patber: I would install 32bit edubuntu on the amd64 server
[02:55] <Yagisan> patber: have you used the amd64 version of ubuntu ?
[02:55] <patber> yes, i would have 20 clients so the ram would be < 4gb
[02:56] <patber> no, i have not used the 64bit version
[02:56] <patber> i am planning for the hardware i have to use
[02:57] <Yagisan> patber: It has some trouble with proprietary software (vendors don't support amd64 in 64bit mode), 
[02:58] <Yagisan> patber: 32bit edubuntu runs fine on amd64 systems, faster then Intel P4 systems.
[02:58] <patber> maybe a 64bit system is easier to upgarde in the future
[02:59] <Yagisan> patber: biggest advantage of the 64bit system is the extra memory address space, and the extra registers
[03:00] <Yagisan> patber: next release of edubuntu should support 32bit clients with 64bit server out of the box
[03:00] <Yagisan> patber: I know, as I wrote the first patch to support that.
[03:00] <patber> well, in the meantime i will try the 42bit edubuntu on a 64bit sytsem
[03:00] <patber> well, in the meantime i will try the 32bit edubuntu on a 64bit sytsem
[03:01] <Yagisan> patber: no worries, let us know how your edubuntu system turns out :)
[03:01] <patber> i will do so. it will be a school in berlin
[03:02] <Yagisan> patber: cool, I believe ogra (main developer) is also from germany.
[03:03] <patber> thanks for your help. bye.
[03:18] <Yagisan> ogra: how are the thin client bofs going ? (have they started yet ?)
[03:20] <ogra> fine...
[03:20] <ogra> looks like we can get the Thin Client bootup down to 30sec (from 1.5 min currently)
[03:21] <ogra> i'm not really happy with the sound stuff, but we'll have to support dapper for 5 years, so we cant do the newest and gretest
[03:21] <Yagisan> ogra: cool. I look forward to quicker boots
[03:21] <ogra> you can look yourself btw
[03:22] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/sprints/ubz/
[03:22] <ogra> look for thin client
[03:24] <mhz> hi there
[03:26] <juliux> re
[03:46] <Yagisan> ogra: Is it possible to reduce client memory usage ? currently the clients need more then 32mb installed to boot
[03:47] <ogra> nope
[03:47] <ogra> thats a requirement of the ubuntu kernel
[03:47] <ogra> it needs at least 48MB
[03:47] <Yagisan> ogra: what about network swap ?
[03:47] <ogra> nbd ? 
[03:47] <ogra> its prepared ...
[03:47] <Yagisan> ogra: whatever - but have it kick in on low ram boxes
[03:48] <Yagisan> ogra: we had a few bitches^W complaints about edubuntu not booting in 32mb boxes
[03:49] <Yagisan> ogra: some people didn't like being told to buy more ram
[03:50] <Yagisan> ogra: We should wiki that 48MB requirement in big bold letters - possibly list it in the topic too
[05:16] <mhz_docing> does anyone here know how to say 'Desarrollo Sustentable'  in english?
[05:16] <mhz_docing> Sustainable Development?
[06:00] <highvoltage> edoo: hi
[06:00] <edoo> heya, highvoltage!
[06:01] <magnon> ogra: quick approval :-)
[06:01] <magnon> if it was you
[06:14] <ogra> magnon, ?
[06:14] <magnon> ogra: launchpad
[06:15] <magnon> I signed up for the edubuntu group and got approved seconds later
[06:15] <ogra> magnon, oh, that was JaneW i guess ;) she always beats me to it
[06:16] <juliux> ogra, hi  if you have time take a look at http://www.juliux.de/linux/edubuntuworkshop.odt 
[06:22] <magnon> ogra is between bofs RIGHT now so he has ;-)
[06:47] <JaneW> ogra: yes it was ;)
[06:48] <JaneW> ogra: hey I do what I can :P
[06:48] <highvoltage> hi JaneW 
[06:48] <JaneW> hello highvoltage 
[06:48] <highvoltage> feels like ages since i last talked to you
[06:49] <highvoltage> geez. feeling better?
[06:49] <JaneW> and now I feel guilty
[06:49] <highvoltage> you 'sound' better :)
[06:49] <JaneW> yes it was good to see ppl in the real world
[06:49] <highvoltage> don't worry, it's also been a while for me (since i saw daylight)
[06:49] <JaneW> and I finally sent a postcard back home :)
[06:50] <highvoltage> hehe
[06:50] <highvoltage> how's UBZ? anything exciting? i haven't been able to follow on-line.
[06:50] <JaneW> yes it's going well so far I think, not as manic as UDU, more organised and focused IMO
[06:53] <ogra> JaneW, you shoud start smoking... going out every hour lets the guilty feeling go away ;)
[06:53] <highvoltage> ogra: how do you feel about the next edubuntu release?
[06:54] <highvoltage> any ideas come up so far at this conf?
[06:54] <ogra> yup, we just finished up thin client sound
[06:55] <ogra> additionally we can cut down the thin client boot to a third of the time it uses now
[06:55] <highvoltage> yes, booting is very schloppy atm.
[06:57] <ogra> but 30sec until login sounds ok, doesnt it ?
[06:58] <highvoltage> yep
[06:58] <highvoltage> i wish i could be there. next year i'm making a plan to attend the conference we're having.
[06:59] <highvoltage> perhaps i should start campaigning that it should happen in .za
[07:08] <JaneW> highvoltage: there's talk of that... or germany
[07:08] <JaneW> I am still viaing for THAILAND!
[07:18] <JaneW> highvoltage: Thailand is cheap for us, and so much fin
[07:18] <JaneW> fun too
[07:19] <highvoltage> ok, thailand does sound cool.
[07:19] <highvoltage> and next year i will make more money, so it should be ok.
[07:25] <JaneW> ogra: someone... corey maybe, told me to tell you about the follwoing links LATE last night... http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=1010
[07:26] <JaneW> and http://gnomefiles.org/app.php?soft_id=691
[07:26] <ogra> JaneW, thats the third time he tells me....
[07:27] <ogra> JaneW, and i wont tell him the third time that we cant ship gambas based software
[07:27] <JaneW> ogra: sorry...
[07:27] <ogra> dont worry :)
[07:28] <ogra> gnutu would duplicate schooltool :)
[07:28] <Burgundavia> ogra, JaneW sorry, I have a bad memory
[07:28] <ogra> Burgundavia, no worries ...
[07:29] <JaneW> gnutu - sounds like an ubuntu derivative
[07:29] <ogra> we should have gnutu available in universe, looks cool for the workstation 
[07:29] <ogra> (for home usage)
[07:29] <JaneW> Burgundavia: np, I just didn;t want to forget if it was smoehting we wanted
[07:29] <highvoltage> what i like about schooltool is the amount of thought that went into it to do it properly.
[07:29] <JaneW> lunch time yay
[07:29] <Burgundavia> JaneW, yes
[07:29] <ogra> LUNCH !!!!
[07:29] <JaneW> !
[07:29] <JaneW> bye
[07:30] <highvoltage> bye!
[07:32] <th1a> I'd never heard of gambas.
[07:32] <th1a> But I suppose something like that had to exist, whether it is a good idea or not.
[07:37] <highvoltage> gambas? what's that.
[07:37] <highvoltage> edoo: google for gambas
[07:37] <th1a> Apparently, free visual BASIC, more or less.
[07:38] <highvoltage> ah.
[07:47] <th1a> Is edoo a bot?
[07:47] <th1a> Apparently so.
[07:47] <Conan59> good day to all.
[07:48] <Conan59> I need someone to point me to a nice start about using edubuntu with LSTP
[07:49] <Conan59> I haven't understood all the details on the LSTP site enough to translate them to edubuntu
[07:49] <bluefrog-10> what do u need to know?
[07:51] <bluefrog-10> Conan59, what do u want to know?
[07:56] <Conan59> sorry
[07:56] <Conan59> Basically an easy way to start
[07:56] <Conan59> What do I install?
[07:56] <Conan59> where do I get it..
[07:56] <Conan59> I already have the latest version of edubuntu
[07:56] <Conan59> edubuntu-5.10-install-i386.iso
[07:57] <Conan59> and I'm going to install it on a computer later today
[07:57] <Conan59> but what do I need to configure and how do I plug the clients?
[07:58] <juliux> Conan59, the clients boots via pxe or a little bootimage, you didn't have to install anything at the client
[08:02] <Conan59> So I don't need the chip for the network card?
[08:02] <Conan59> I can make a floppy image and run from the server?
[08:02] <Conan59> I guess I need to disable my existing DHCP server, right?
[08:03] <Conan59> being a linksys router I don't think it supports what I need, does it?
[08:05] <juliux> yes on the edubuntu the dhcp server should run
[08:05] <bluefrog-10> better if you disable it to test, just to make sure there is no interference
[08:05] <juliux> and then the clients can boot via network
[08:05] <bluefrog-10> install edubuntu while following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSPServerSetup?highlight=%28ltsp%29
[08:06] <bluefrog-10> u might have a pb to log in with your clients, if it's the case come back here and it will be solved in no time
[08:07] <Conan59> pb?
[08:07] <bluefrog-10> problem
[08:07] <Conan59> OH thanks :D
[08:07] <Conan59> Thank you very much for your help
[08:07] <Conan59> that's exactly what I was looking for.
[08:08] <Conan59> I'll come back as soon as I have it up and running.
[08:08] <Conan59> Thanks again.. see you later!
[08:47] <xDudex> Hey
[08:48] <juliux> ho
[08:48] <xDudex> Have any of you deployed Edubuntu yet?  If so, for what?
[08:48] <xDudex> err
[08:49] <xDudex> as a Terminal server... I meant =/
[08:49] <bluefrog-10> xDudex, schools would be the best example
[08:50] <juliux> or fair teams like the german ubuntu/edubuntu fair team
[08:51] <xDudex> fair teams?
[08:51] <juliux> yes we make booth at fairs
[08:51] <juliux> or conferences
[08:52] <xDudex> ahh, ok
[08:52] <xDudex> is it possible to create a customized desktop setup and then use that as a template so-to-speak for a group of users?
[08:53] <juliux> you can make it by hand
[08:54] <xDudex> yeah, but say I need it to be identical for 20 users, is there a way to avoid doing it all by hand? =)
[08:54] <bluefrog-10> yes certainly
[08:54] <juliux> you can also write a little script
[08:55] <bluefrog-10> can't tell u right now how but am pretty sure that it's possible to define several default desktops and then assign them to groups
[08:56] <xDudex> ok, cool, that's helpful in my search, knowing that it is possible
[09:02] <highvoltage> xDudex: you can also copy a costomised home directory to /etc/skel
[09:02] <highvoltage> all new users will then have that setup
[09:20] <xDudex> highvoltage, yeah, I was just reading about that on a site
[09:20] <xDudex> brb
[09:38] <mhz_lunch> re
[09:51] <XRaxX> oh snap
[09:51] <XRaxX> this is quite easy
[09:51] <XRaxX> Set up one user as the model, copy its config files into /etc/skel
[09:51] <XRaxX> then all new users will be set up like the model
[09:54] <bluefrog-10> how would u do then to assign a skeleton to someone depending on the group he is memeber of?
[09:54] <bluefrog-10> there must be a way to achieve that, no?
[09:56] <XRaxX> I don't know
[09:56] <XRaxX> still doing more reading on it =)
[09:56] <bluefrog-10> something like create /etc/skel  /etc/skel1 and so on :)
[09:57] <bluefrog-10> i need to have a look into ldap directory to see if it can be done thru it
[09:58] <XRaxX> I have never used an ldap directory
[09:59] <neurogeek> bluefrog-10, /etc/skel is group-independant AFAIK
[09:59] <XRaxX> correct, neurogeek
[09:59] <XRaxX> the question is then, is there a way to do the same thing /etc/skel does, but make it group dependant?
[10:00] <neurogeek> XRaxX, unless you add script support to it.. by modifing useradd 
[10:01] <neurogeek> it shouldn't be that difficult
[10:01] <XRaxX> what do you mean?
[10:02] <bluefrog-10> yes but then it would for users only
[10:02] <bluefrog-10> u wouldn't change a group at once , would u?
[10:03] <bluefrog-10> or to be clearer, change a user skel by adding him to a group
[10:03] <neurogeek> I mean.. changing useradd code.. that way you can do what you want to skel.. or creating a new adduser program
[10:03] <bluefrog-10> adduser yep seems better
[10:04] <neurogeek> bluefrog-10, yes.. 
[10:06] <bluefrog-10> am having a look at smbldap-useradd, there is an option for the skeleton there
[10:07] <neurogeek> yes.. but with group support??
[10:07] <bluefrog-10> -m creates home dir and copies /etc/skel -k specifies skeleton dir
[10:07] <mhz> bluefrog-10: but what is exactly what you need? UserGroup have access to this application while UserGroup2 does not?
[10:07] <bluefrog-10> hang on hang on one thing at a time ... :)
[10:07] <neurogeek> bluefrog-10, thats the standard way useradd does it
[10:07] <neurogeek> mhz, hello.. how are you??
[10:08] <bluefrog-10> oh yes was checking useradd but missed it
[10:08] <mhz> Mauricio Hernandez Z.
[10:08] <mhz> neurogeek: has bad memory :)
[10:08] <bluefrog-10> mhz, no someone was asking if possible to assign a skel to a group
[10:08] <bluefrog-10> so that all members of a group have same desktop
[10:09] <neurogeek> mhz, no.. jeje.. i asked about how are you doing? how are your things? jeje
[10:09] <mhz> neurogeek: oohhh, my tired eyes, duh!!! 
[10:09] <neurogeek> mhz, don't worry.. nice seeing you again
[10:09] <mhz> m2
[10:10] <mhz> bluefrog-10: oh, same desktop for G1 but will users in G2 still see SAME menus?
[10:11] <bluefrog-10> not sure of what the guy wanted but for me it would be like this yes
[10:12] <bluefrog-10> eventually having different icons on desktop as well in relation to waht they are doing
[10:12] <mhz> hmm, I guess 'adduser' has some options to specify /etc/skel but I doubt this will provide a diff menu depending on Group :(
[10:12] <bluefrog-10> G1 accounting has accounting icons on desktop and so on
[10:12] <mhz> well, that'd be cool for schools purposes
[10:12] <bluefrog-10> yes
[10:12] <XRaxX> that simplifies it though because you just make a few different /etc/skel 's based on the groups you need
[10:13] <XRaxX> then specifiy which to use in creation
[10:13] <mhz> but I think this will be possible under Wmaker or Fluxbox desktops
[10:13] <neurogeek> bluefrog-10, modifiying adduser or useradd is the only way to do that
[10:13] <mhz> i doubt it under GNOME
[10:13] <mhz> (maybe)
[10:14] <mhz> neurogeek: but doesn't adduser offer a flag for a diff /skel ?
[10:14] <bluefrog-10> ok then to make it simpler, a useradd script which asks in which group he's going to be, then we the input to define the skel?
[10:14] <neurogeek> mhz, yes.. you can specify what is going to be your skel dir.. but not to make group differences between them
[10:14] <XRaxX> wouldn't it just be easier to use that switch?
[10:15] <mhz> neurogeek: you mean no -G flag or something?
[10:15] <XRaxX> it doesn't have to be fully automated...
[10:15] <neurogeek> bluefrog-10, easier.. write a script that calls useradd specifiying it what sekl dir to grab by group
[10:15] <mhz> neurogeek: oooh, now i see
[10:15] <bluefrog-10> yes that's what i meant (i think) in very bad english :)
[10:15] <mhz> sorry
[10:16] <mhz> bluefrog-10: your english is fine
[10:16] <neurogeek> mhz, -m -k (skel dir)
[10:16] <mhz> communication is the key
[10:16] <bluefrog-10> my scripting is less :)
[10:16] <XRaxX> neurogeek, yes
[10:17] <mhz> bluefrog-10: my scripting is Zero
[10:17] <neurogeek> :D
[10:17] <bluefrog-10> so far zero is a high score for me
[10:17] <mhz> hehehehe
[10:17] <neurogeek> bluefrog-10, it will be easy.. you just have to wrap useradd, with the parameters you want
[10:18] <mhz> bluefrog-10: IIRC, OSX had an option to do exactly what we're discussing from GUI :D
[10:18] <mhz> .oO(neurogeek's right)
[10:19] <neurogeek> :D
[10:20] <blue-james> hum my first xchat window has gone somewhere but where exactly i don't know..;
[10:21] <blue-james> am bluefrog-10
[10:21] <XRaxX> haha, weird
[10:22] <blue-james> could you point me to a site where i could find simple scripting example so that i can learn from live stuff?
[10:22] <blue-james> am no programmer so theory is a bit above my head
[10:23] <neurogeek> going to check
[10:23] <blue-james> but i can make my way with real stuff
[10:23] <blue-james> and then i go back to theory
[10:24] <XRaxX> shell scripting?
[10:24] <blue-james> sh scripts
[10:24] <XRaxX> same thing =P
[10:24] <blue-james> such as as for a user input and use that input afterwards
[10:24] <blue-james> such as ask..
[10:25] <mhz> bluefrog-10: have you ever used WebMin stuff?
[10:25] <blue-james> yes
[10:25] <mhz> i'd bet webmin has what you need from GUI
[10:25] <XRaxX> that is more advanced than what I know, heh
[10:25] <blue-james> have had a look itno their scripts already but tough
[10:25] <XRaxX> maybe http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ ?
[10:26] <mhz> i'd bet webmin has what you need from GUI (adding users with profiles)
[10:26] <blue-james> becasue they are calling so many things, it makes me dizzy :)
[10:27] <XRaxX> is webmin an ubuntu package?
[10:27] <blue-james> cool will have a look into Example 4-1. Variable assignment and substitution
[10:27] <blue-james> webmin yes
[10:27] <blue-james> universe
[10:27] <neurogeek> blue-james, you just need (as simple as i see it ) something like this http://deadbeefbabe.org/paste/2004?_nevow_carryover_=1130880435.99127.0.0.10.759829862943
[10:27] <XRaxX> roger that, found it
[10:28] <neurogeek> Of course.. validating the existence of both $group and /etc/skel_$group
[10:28] <blue-james> perfeact
[10:29] <neurogeek> blue-james, its not the most elegant thing in the world.. but it'll do
[10:29] <blue-james> exactly what the guy asked and exactly what i needed to start to understand how to do them ty very much
[10:29] <mhz> perfect!
[10:29] <neurogeek> np
[10:29] <XRaxX> yeah, cool, thanks
[10:29] <blue-james> elegant stuff is one thing, wroking stuff i prefer :)
[10:30] <mhz> blue-james: then after, please wiki a page stating how you solved the 'problem'
[10:30] <neurogeek> thats my motto on pressure times.. jaja
[10:31] <blue-james> mhz, am working on samba-ldap dhcp3 bind howto
[10:31] <mhz> cooool
[10:31] <blue-james> have done all my tests 4 or 5. i need to write now
[10:32] <blue-james> 4or5 times
[10:32] <mhz> excuseme, educool!
[10:32] <mhz> :)
[10:32] <blue-james> i still need to explore postfix. bit hard as i was used to sendmail
[10:33] <mhz> free as in freedom is harder path, but much more gratefull in the end
[10:33] <blue-james> i would prefer postix as it is in breezy but if loosing too much time i will go sendmail in universe
[10:33] <mhz> hmmmm, boooh
[10:34] <blue-james> i mean postfix in itself, i can do but apparently i have some pb to integrate an imap server with it
[10:35] <blue-james> tried courrier and cyrus, no good. i prefer dovecot anyway but i haven't started yet
[10:35] <blue-james> well started but just a little
[10:36] <blue-james> by no good i mean i was no good :)
[10:36] <mhz> hehehe
[10:36] <mhz> dovecot you said? I read a terrific howto
[10:36] <mhz> blue-james: need a url?
[10:37] <blue-james> if in conjunction with postfix yes by all means
[10:37] <blue-james> otherwise yes as well anyway :)
[10:37] <blue-james> but so far my dovecot pb seems to come from ldap auth.
[10:38] <blue-james> didn't have those pb with K12LTSP but now that 've dumped K12 i need to understand things a bit deeper
[10:42] <mhz> re
[10:42] <mhz> sorry
[10:46] <mhz> blue-james: http://www.howtoforge.com/taxonomy_menu/1/4
[10:47] <blue-james> cool i killed my first window, will be back.. ty
[10:47] <mhz> yw
[10:47] <blue-james> or maybe can i just take back my name from here without shuting don xchat?
[11:42] <signifer123> so what advantages does edubuntu have for High Schools?
[11:43] <bluefrog-10> less money involved in clients, maintenance...
[11:43] <bluefrog-10> when i say less it's an euphemism
[11:43] <bluefrog-10> understand big money saved
[11:44] <bluefrog-10> money that can be used on training people
[11:47] <corey_> time is another thing that may not be directly expressed as money, but certainly would be felt
[11:47] <corey_> that is what edubuntu saves
[11:54] <magnon> training is generally a cost, but it's a long term thing
[11:56] <corey_> yes, and if you make the system as turn-key as possible, you eliminate a great deal of training
[11:57] <bluefrog-10> training as in training pple how to use a computer, openoffice and so on....
[11:57] <magnon> I don't think you would always need a course as of such
[11:58] <bluefrog-10> training as having night courses for elderly and so on.;
[11:58] <signifer123> but how about on restrictions?
[11:58] <magnon> if they're not completely illiterate they'll find their way around
[11:58] <signifer123> lol
[11:58] <magnon> signifer123: restrictions to what users can do?
[11:58] <signifer123> like keeping them from accessing certain aprts of the fs
[11:58] <bluefrog-10> am not talking about the IT guy who is going to install..
[11:58] <signifer123> parts*
[11:59] <signifer123> for students
[11:59] <magnon> well, edubuntu does or will do restrictions
[12:00] <signifer123> what does it do as of now?
[12:01] <magnon> ogra: answer please :-)
[12:01] <magnon> I'm not sure
[12:01] <bluefrog-10> what u need it to do
[12:01] <magnon> but you have the basic unix separations
[12:01] <bluefrog-10> define your needs
[12:01] <signifer123> keep them from accessing the main aprt of the linux fs
[12:01] <magnon> why would you?
[12:01] <signifer123> why would they have to
[12:01] <bluefrog-10> they don't have access to files system
[12:02] <signifer123> if they mess something up then you have to ghost it
[12:02] <magnon> to start programs and such?
[12:02] <magnon> they won't have an access to write it
[12:02] <magnon> only an admin would
[12:02] <signifer123> just allow them to see their home dir thats it
[12:02] <magnon> that's silly
[12:02] <signifer123> they can't even see the other stuff
[12:02] <magnon> that's a security measure that you don't need
[12:03] <signifer123> i guess so...
[12:03] <signifer123> does wine support netware?
[12:03] <ogra> a normal user can mess up parts of the os in linux
[12:03] <ogra> s/can/can't/