=== Kaloz_ [n=kaloz@arrakis.dune.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fred__ [n=fred@home.nenya.info] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sedak [n=fred@home.nenya.info] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marilize [n=marilize@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kaloz_ is now known as Kaloz === camilotelles [n=Camilo@20132194128.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [n=mdz@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mindwarp [n=mindwarp@141.215.3.171] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kaloz [n=kaloz@arrakis.dune.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Valandil [n=chrys@dslb-084-056-082-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:41] cevizoglu, GNUstep [12:42] tracks Cocoa pretty much [12:42] Try #gnustep === jamesh [n=james@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stratus [n=stratus@cronopio.rits.org.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === CaiN_SA [n=cain@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kaloz [n=kaloz@arrakis.dune.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:51] man, what's with jdub's orange jumpsuit [12:52] the inmate look in or something? [12:52] it's jdub. need you ask more? === whiprush sees pics of aj [12:53] surely not [12:53] the flickr box on fridge picked up magicfab's photos === sabdfl [n=mark@pdpc/supporter/silver/sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-35.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === koke [n=koke@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bradb [n=bradb@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfeehan [n=sfeehan@pool-64-222-103-115.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mez_ [n=Mez@66.103.220.201] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@DSL01.83.171.164.132.NEFkom.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === corey_ [n=corey@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === TheMuso [n=luke@dsl-202-173-132-131.nsw.westnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [n=mdz@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mjr [i=mjr@aulis.sange.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === apokryphos [n=apokryph@70.85.216.98] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.201] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lupus [n=lupus@dD5E03FA9.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mjr [i=mjr@aulis.sange.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:27] some packages depending on libnspr4 in dapper are broken because they require a lower version [02:27] anyone fixing this? [02:37] lots of things are broken in dapper === mpt [n=mpt@66.103.220.208] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:50] heylo === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ikuyaLoqu [n=ikuya@gnulinux.good-day.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@DSL01.83.171.167.168.NEFkom.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ozamosi [n=nnozamos@h142n6c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seth_k [n=seth@asmallorange.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jlj [n=agp@cpe-204-210-33-233.san.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:18] hi all [04:18] E: Build-dependencies for mutt could not be satisfied. [04:19] my sources.list and apt-get update, http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/3911 === bmonty_laptop [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bmonty_laptop_ [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === corey_ [n=corey@66.103.220.252] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=hunger@p54A63B71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Jimbob [n=jcape@c-24-14-116-227.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfeehan [n=sfeehan@pool-64-222-103-115.burl.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === magnon [n=co@66.103.220.246] has joined #ubuntu-devel === StoneTable [n=stone@c-24-14-85-48.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === susus [n=sz@p5089D9BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ozamosi [n=nnnozamo@h142n6c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ikuyaLoqu [n=ikuya@gnulinux.good-day.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ikuyaLoqu [n=ikuya@gnulinux.good-day.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === YfsbDNK [n=YfsbDNK@70.89.208.241] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rafl_ [n=rafl@p54B483BF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-6.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === koke [n=koke@66.103.220.198] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === schweeb [n=chris@d14-69-197-20.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@66.103.220.214] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont [n=lamont@66.103.220.247] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Jimbob [n=jcape@c-24-14-116-227.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === `anthony [n=anthony@220-253-63-104.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@66.103.220.205] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Jimbob [n=jcape@c-24-14-116-227.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@adsl-69-153-128-173.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir [n=richard@d58-104-16-29.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zak@210.1.82.150] has joined #ubuntu-devel === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-50-163.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Simira [n=rpGirl@66.103.220.220] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=hunger@p54A63E6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lorenzod [n=lorenzod@80.87.77.58] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lorenzod_ [n=lorenzod@80.87.77.58] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lorenzod_ [n=lorenzod@80.87.77.58] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation] === kyncani [n=kyncani@lns-bzn-35-82-250-205-158.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:52] jdub: dude ... what channel was I just on talking to you ... (busted terminal) === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:58] whiprush, on ubuntu-sounder? [07:58] robitaille: I was talking to jdub about 5 minutes ago, and my terminal died, and I have no idea what channel it was on. [07:58] heh [07:59] whiprush, it was on #ubuntu-sounder [07:59] not that one, I seem to be missing 5 minutes of conversation on some channel. [07:59] thanks [08:00] humm..it wasn't on any channel i'm on. Too many of them... === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:00] hi all === lbm [n=lbm@cpe.atm4-0-1301006.0x50a0824e.vgnxx6.customer.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:00] morning === lbm [n=lbm@cpe.atm4-0-1301006.0x50a0824e.vgnxx6.customer.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === martink [n=martin@p54B3ABF7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Treenaks_ [n=martijn@messy.foodfight.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mortas_ [n=kris@217.148.89.121] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Riddell_ [i=jr@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pef [n=loic@ubuntu/member/pef] has joined #ubuntu-devel === martinhj [n=martinhj@238.80-202-208.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:58] hello === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === martinhj_ [n=martinhj@238.80-202-208.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:46] is /etc/ld.so.conf supposed to be non-existent on fresh breezy systems? [09:47] (now X stuff is in /usr) === hunger [n=hunger@p54A60A1F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mortas_ is now known as Mortas === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.46.163.254] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel === olemke [n=olemke@iup.physik.uni-bremen.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sedak [n=fred@home.nenya.info] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@212.2.177.137] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying_ [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hirion [n=Hirion@p5487F9EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === herzi [n=herzi@c182040.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MasterC [n=chans@dslb-084-060-221-115.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carstenh [n=carstenh@p54A61DCC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _rockie [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:10] geez no one replies to list on -devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo_ is now known as slomo === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel === GamanaAm [i=gnu@p549CF83D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jinty [n=jinty@205.134.224.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dand [n=dand@gw.datagroup.ro] has joined #ubuntu-devel === otavio_e_angel is now known as otavio === pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@d5153F06D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fbn [n=fbn@p549E03D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === haggai [n=halls@i-83-67-59-194.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.35] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Capri [n=makolb@C4f2f.c.strato-dslnet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rob^ [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kamion_ [n=cjwatson@83-216-156-196.colinw664.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pvanhoof [n=pvanhoof@d5153F06D.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman is now known as GmanAFK === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-79-217-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nailbiter [i=foobar@c210-49-121-249.eburwd3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@66.103.220.156] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=hunger@p54A63F57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:49] Any chance of seeing xen in ubuntu soon, now that redhat commited to pushing it into the vanilla kernel? === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:51] hunger: the easiest thing is to write a specification and offer help with it [01:53] dholbach: Xen is pretty "invasive". I can try to write up something, but this is nothing someone can do without serious backup from "management". [01:53] the first thing is to write a spec and gather people around it [01:54] dholbach: Either it is adding a new architecture for the kernels or it is changing the default kernel to be a xen kernel and use xen everywhere. [01:54] dholbach: Is there a spec-writting howto? === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:55] http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs has quite a bunch of already good-looking specs - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate has a template === hunger wonders whether an outsider like me is the right person to write a spec. === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:59] will there be videos or audiorecordings from UBZ? It would be fun to listen/watch.. === sabdfl [n=mark@pdpc/supporter/silver/sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:00] morning sabdfl [02:00] there are videos from the lightning talks... dont know about anything else. [02:00] dont know if the videos will be shared either [02:00] treenaks is the video master [02:01] video's for everybody! === zyga would like UBZ to end very soon [02:02] zyga: Yeap... nobody is producing debs anymore;-) [02:02] hunger: no, I'm excited about some new things coming to ubuntu and no-one is here to talk about them :-) [02:02] everyone is out there *g* [02:03] zyga: Yes, I do feel somewhat out of the loop, too. === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:03] zyga: Of course I'm just a curious bystander with no need to be in the loop but anyway:-) [02:04] the ubuntu-devel mailinglist is terribly quiet now under UBZ [02:04] quite freaky hehe [02:04] hunger: I'm out of the loop but I run across the road from time to time === Keybuk [n=scott@66.103.220.192] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:07] zyga: You are in montreal (or where was UBZ?) [02:07] zyga: Lucky you... canada is *NICE*. === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:13] hunger: no I'm faar away from canada [02:14] hunger: I'm from Poland and I run across the loop virtually === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=hunger@p54A61CAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Valandil [n=chrys@dslb-084-056-097-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thesaltydog [n=fabio@ubuntu/member/thesaltydog] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [n=mdz@66.103.220.187] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@CPE0006258ec6c2-CM000a73655d0e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === winkle [i=winkle@shaka.acc.umu.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chmj [n=chmj@66.103.220.248] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@66.103.220.156] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:03] carstenh: ah, firewall is today 1430 [03:04] pitti: firewall ? [03:04] Yagisan: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/firewall === lamont [n=lamont@66.103.220.190] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont [n=lamont@66.103.220.190] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:08] slomo: ping [03:09] pitti: If I understand correctly, you will discuss setting up a personal firewall, rather then say ubuntuising ipcop ? [03:09] pitti: pong === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@66.103.220.205] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel === CaiN_SA [n=cain@66.103.220.184] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:13] slomo: mplayer warty+hoary FTBFS on powerpc [03:14] Yagisan: s_personal_Ubuntu/Debian specific_ === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:14] pitti: hello :) [03:14] pitti: uh? hmm, can you give me the buildlog? it's not here: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/m/mplayer/ === mvo [n=egon@66.103.220.195] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:15] slomo: your email? [03:15] pitti: mail@slomosnail.de [03:15] pitti: thanks. [03:15] pitti: and both worked fine here on x86... :/ === sanpera [n=sanpera@157.182.195.191] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sanpera_ [n=sanpera@157.182.195.191] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:16] slomo: I sent you all three logs (but don't worry about ia64) === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@66.103.220.184] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:20] pitti: uh... that's nothing caused by the patch... it was broken before it seems :( === viviersf [n=cain@66.103.220.184] has joined #ubuntu-devel === koke [n=koke@66.103.220.178] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:21] slomo: but we have a deb in hoary (however, not in warty) [03:21] mplayer-powerpc | 1:1.0-pre6-0.3ubuntu5 | hoary/multiverse | powerpc [03:22] hi guys [03:22] pitti: ubuntu5, yes... but the newest was ubuntu6 :/ [03:22] ah, too bad [03:22] ok, let's forget about that then [03:23] slomo: I release the i386/amd64 packages now [03:23] ok, thanks :) [03:23] at least in breezy mplayer was buildable on all 3 arches at release time ;) [03:23] slomo: breezy was not vulnerable to that issue? [03:24] pitti: no... i fixed it weeks before release while i was doing other stuff with mplayer [03:24] nice [03:25] pitti: ok, thanks. [03:25] carstenh: is it possible for you to be online at that time, in case questions arise? [03:26] sure, 14:30 in which timezoe? [03:26] carstenh: we are -5 here [03:26] carstenh: e. g. 20:30 CET [03:26] ok, i'll be there :) === JSZ [n=diego@59.Red-80-36-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:26] carstenh: thanks === magnon [n=co@66.103.220.226] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@66.103.220.184] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:46] issue to think about [03:46] if we use utf8 by default we could gain significant memory savings by converting all .mo files to use utf8 [03:47] that saves iconv runs and memory duplication [03:47] pitti: ^^^ [03:47] zyga: this shuold be handled by the Rosetta output [03:47] pitti: rosetta always keeps existing encoding [03:47] (on export) [03:47] and carlos said that's the preferred way [03:47] zyga: by default yes, but we might tell it to convert it to UTF-8 on langpack export [03:47] carlos: ^ [03:47] zyga, I think that it would cause problems with some applications that are not UTF-8 friendly if the user has an UTF-8 locale (as ubuntu does by default) [03:48] carlos: such apps could be crashed in dapper devel run [03:48] carlos: and the majority of apps gains 1/2 memory less used [03:48] zyga, I can do that special export easily, but I'm a bit concerned about it.... [03:49] carlos: but gettext does automatic conversion anyway, doesn't it? [03:49] carlos: we could build a blacklist [03:49] pitti: yes but it pulls memory [03:49] pitti: if the .mo file is utf8 and the output is utf8 then you only get one mmap [03:49] zyga: I mean, if apps run in latin1, they can still use utf8 mo files [03:49] pitti, you can disable that [03:50] pitti: yes [03:50] pitti, in fact, GNOME applications 'disable' it and force UTF-8 [03:50] carlos: exactly [03:50] the more utf8 we have the better [03:50] legacy encodings only cause problems in the long run [03:50] zyga, you don't need to convince me, it's just something that we should handle with upstream, that's all [03:51] at least that's my opinion [03:51] sounds sane [03:51] in the long run upstreams will convert anyway (most of them) [03:51] carlos: upstream can keep using their version, usually legacy encodings come from legacy systems and legacy translators, not for some real need [03:51] pitti: did you hear about .desktop gettext support? :) === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:51] pitti: do you care about ipv6 for dapper? [03:52] pitti, if you want to play with all .po files as UTF-8 is your choice, file a bug and I will change the code to produce the language packs as UTF-8 exports [03:52] carstenh: doesn't breezy support ipv6? [03:52] pitti, I will not have time to test dapper for errors, that's why I'm not too excited about it, that's all [03:52] carlos: we could build the first dapper langpack with it, just to try it out [03:52] pitti: breezies kernel does not support stateful package filtering for ipv6 [03:52] pitti: I second that idea [03:52] pitti, sure [03:52] carlos: ok [03:53] pitti, zyga file a bug about it with High priority so as soon as dapper opens at launchpad so we have something to export [03:53] pitti: I've patched some libs and gnome can use gettext for .desktop files ATM [03:53] I will change it [03:53] carlos: sure [03:53] carstenh: IIRC no kernels do stateful filtering on ipv6 yet [03:53] zyga, really?, please, mail us the patch so we can take a look [03:53] pitti: when the firewall should support ipv6 the kernel needs a patch [03:54] carlos: they are online already [03:54] zyga, thank you for working on it [03:54] Yagisan: yes, that is the problem [03:54] zyga, URL? [03:54] carlos: added that to the specs, one sec [03:54] ok [03:54] https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/langpacks-desktopfiles [03:54] carlos: both patches are attached to the bugs [03:54] ok [03:54] carlos: it works but I didn't test performance yet [03:55] zyga, if you would do some performance tests with and without your changes that would be really cool [03:55] so we can ask upstream again to include it (if the performance is good enough) [03:55] carlos: I plan to really, if performance sucks I'll write a gettext proxy and see how that helps [03:55] zyga, we should use some kind of cache [03:55] carlos: there are some serious issues that need to be addressed [03:56] zyga, so we only read the .mo once per session [03:56] carlos: I was thinking about a gettextd that builds /var/cache/gettext but IPC could harm the performance [03:56] carlos: or simply build one .mo file for all .desktop files [03:56] carlos: but that's an issue with another lengthy rebuild every upgrade === shinmen [n=shinmen@nat1.inalambrica.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:57] mvo: ping, around? :) [03:58] zyga, dude, a daemon for this is completely a waste of resources... === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sfeehan [n=sfeehan@132.198.90.91] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:58] carlos: I was worried about it too ;-) [03:59] carlos: but when you need to open a 100 of .mo files and a 100 of .desktop files it will kill startup easily [03:59] carlos: such daemon (or cache in other way) could reduce that to 2 files [03:59] and that would really help [04:00] we simply need a single file cache of /usr/share/applications === mdz [n=mdz@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:00] Lathiat: yes, but after decoupling the translations we need a second cache for all the .mo files === sabdfl [n=mark@pdpc/supporter/silver/sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:00] why decouple the translations? [04:00] they can be stuck in the cache [04:00] a single slightly big file isnt a proabbly [04:00] 350 tiny files is [04:00] Lathiat: hmm [04:00] Lathiat: true [04:01] Lathiat: but what could rebuild/invalidate that cache? [04:01] like you could read in a 10M file happily [04:01] reading in 350 200K files sucks [04:01] Lathiat: I agree but I'd say using two caches is easier [04:01] zyga: well, 350 50K [04:01] zyga: so realistically you want the packages to ask for updates [04:01] Lathiat: one for gettext is easy (easy to build, easy to patch) [04:01] but youd probably want some kind of inotify daemon [04:01] i guess [04:01] Lathiat: I don't know how to get .desktop cache as I don't know the source that good [04:02] carlos, pitti: I'd love to hear your comments on those patches [04:02] zyga: really need to talk to someone a little smarter than i [04:02] for the specifics === OculusAquilae [n=oculus@p548D336A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont__ [n=lamont@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === calc [n=ccheney@ip70-185-4-246.ma.dl.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@66.103.220.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mez [n=Mez@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === magnon [n=co@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === __keybuk [n=scott@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti_ [n=pitti@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === koke [n=koke@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-79-217-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [04:16] zyga, does gnome-panel read all .desktop files every time you open the menu? [04:17] carlos: I'm not sure but it does listen to changes in /usr/share/applications [04:17] zyga, we are a bit busy atm as soon as we get some spare time will look into the patches, UBZ you know... [04:17] carlos: more than fine :-) [04:17] zyga, that means that it only reads the .desktop files again if they change [04:17] carlos: it probably reads them every time something changes [04:17] carlos: yes, and it leaks alot of memory at that time [04:17] (really really bad feature) [04:18] zyga, so you can just store that translation into memory instead of the english string [04:18] carlos: hmm? === OculusAquilae [n=oculus@p548D336A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:18] zyga, it stores the menu into memory [04:18] carlos: right [04:18] carlos: and? === jamesh [n=james@66.103.220.204] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:18] zyga, if you store the translation at that time, you have there the cache feature too [04:19] carlos: that's not the same [04:19] carlos: I want to cache .mo files, not .desktop files yet [04:19] carlos: for every .desktop file it needs to open corresponding .mo file and that kills performance [04:19] zyga, it makes no sense to cache .mo files when you only want two strings from every .mo file... [04:19] carlos: right [04:19] carlos: so we need to cache the looked up strings somewhere :) [04:19] zyga, that happens only the first time you read all menu entries [04:20] zyga, the gnome-panel does it already for us! [04:20] carlos: no, the issues is that in the ideal world we'd have a .desktop = .mo relationship === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:21] carlos: but that means, that on startup for every .desktop file we also need to open a corresponding .mo file (gettext does that for us using lots of stats into various locations) [04:21] carlos: we can cache both things, multiple .desktop files and .multiple .mo files [04:21] carlos: the latter are easier because we could build a .mo file that contains only .desktop-relevant stuff [04:23] where cna i fie bugs against katie? [04:23] carlos: that's why I wanted a gettext daemon that can build a persistent cache, this would (after one run) reduce the number of open calls to 1 [04:23] carlos: I'd love to discuss this in #u-desktop when you've got the time === fbn [n=fbn@p549E03D3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marilize [n=marilize@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Loevborg [n=loevborg@d4-84.dip.axsp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wasabi_ [n=wasabi@207.55.180.100] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:27] zyga, you cannot implement this feature doing the implementation 100% depending on the .mo file [04:27] we want to share that with upstream and we can do it easily without depending on .mo files [04:27] so the distros that want (Ubuntu and Sun Solaris) can use .mo files [04:28] and the others will stay with current implementation [04:28] that means that we should be compatible with old .desktop files we are adding an optional improvement [04:28] zyga, I'm sure that a full new way to handle translations would be faster or better, but we should try to share as much code as possible with upstream and upstream already said that they don't want a solution that depends on gettext [04:28] carlos: this is 100% optional [04:28] carlos: the domain lookup takes preference, if possible [04:28] carlos: all existing functionality is preserved [04:29] carlos: eh, gettext is really good, I don't understand that argument [04:29] carlos: as you have argued on the xdg mailing list [04:30] carlos: this is an optional argument [04:30] zyga, but it's done only once and on startup time and we can preload the .mo files into memory like we do (or I think we did) with hoary [04:30] carlos: yes we can [04:30] zyga, the problem with a single .mo po file is that the strings come from different packages [04:30] carlos: but it's still a significant number of files === koke_ [n=koke@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont [n=lamont@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [n=mdz@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:30] carlos: yes and it needs to be rebuilt on every update somehow, that's bad === Mez [n=Mez@66.103.220.253] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [i=fabbione@66.103.220.207] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:30] zyga, I think we should do it step by step [04:31] carlos: anyway I think we should check if that works fine now [04:31] first using what we have atm [04:31] carlos: if the performance is really bad we can work that out later or revert the changes anyway [04:31] and then, after some performance checks, start to optimize it [04:31] right [04:31] carlos: the one thing difficult to do with preloading is that it's locale dependent [04:31] you need to check /usr/share/locale/$FOO/LC_MESSAGES/*.mo [04:32] zyga, you can preload the default locale [04:32] zyga, the amount of computers that use multiple locales is low compared to the ones that use a single one === mvo [n=egon@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:32] carlos: agreed! [04:32] anyway, that's already an optimization, so... [04:33] koke, they removed the ban? [04:33] ca, [04:33] carlos: it seems so [04:33] carlos: my plans are 1) make sure it's not buggy 2) make sure it has good performance 3) promote upstream [04:34] koke: for how long === marilize [n=marilize@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:34] zyga, 2b) land it into Dapper === sabdfl [n=mark@pdpc/supporter/silver/sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:35] carlos: :-) [04:35] carlos: right :-) [04:35] carlos: 2c) support me at the CC ;-P [04:35] you need it first inside dapper so upstream can see it working [04:35] true [04:35] zyga, I'm not an Ubuntu developer, not sure if I would help there ;-) [04:36] carlos: are you a member? === mez_ [n=Mez@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Simira [n=rpGirl@66.103.220.220] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:38] zyga, no, at least I'm not aware of it === Seveas` [n=seveas@seveas.demon.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:40] carlos: strange I thought you were employed by cannonical [04:40] zyga: not all canonical employees are ubuntu members or developers [04:40] ah, I see [04:41] Mez: it's not coming back [04:41] zyga, I am, but working on Rosetta [04:41] daniels ??? [04:41] Mez: the k-line [04:41] oh, good :D === Keybuk [n=scott@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === otavio is now known as otavio[off] === lbm [n=lbm@x1-6-00-13-10-7a-d1-e4.k233.webspeed.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thierry_ [n=thierry@modemcable192.222-70-69.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === magnon [n=co@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@212.2.163.246] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-6.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:55] carlos: dapper == enterprise release, not great for new/experimental code === doko [n=doko@66.103.220.223] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:55] dapper+1, sure [04:55] Kamion: what, no shiny bling? === wasabi__ [n=wasabi@207.55.180.100] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:56] "rigid and boring" [04:56] but, but, I want xglx and luminocity on my server! [04:56] Kamion: but dapper is technically breezy+1 and breezy is out for a few weeks [04:56] Kamion, does it mean that we are not going to add new features? [04:56] Kamion: any idea why I'm not recieving any mail from katie? [04:56] I want to throw my Xen instances around === Treenaks_ is now known as Treenaks === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Mithrandir should stop trolling and go draft instead. [04:57] zyga: dapper will be an enterprise release, supported for five years; we are being very conservative about what we add to it [04:57] I've mentioned this to you before [04:57] carlos: cautiously [04:57] <\sh> Mithrandir: wait for redhat :) they want to integrate Xen into RHEL 5 ,-) === jinty [n=jinty@205.134.224.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:57] <\sh> Mithrandir: in a 2 months timeframe [04:57] \sh: with xglx and luminocity? [04:57] dude, we have xglx in dapper ;) [04:57] shiny === Mithrandir installs [04:58] Kamion, ok [04:58] (but it doesn't affect anything else unless you choose to install it ...) === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:58] Mithrandir: WOBBLE [04:58] <\sh> Mithrandir: well...i didn't read the specs...but there was the announcement today from redhat (or yesterday on eweek) [04:58] Couldn't find any package whose name or description matched "luminocity" [04:58] tseng: yeah, wobble. [04:58] Kamion: s/enterprise/long-term supported/ :-) [04:58] jdub: whatEVAH [04:58] jdub: semantics :-P [04:58] good sematics though :) [04:58] Mithrandir: not yet [04:59] Mithrandir: probably today or tomorrow, depends on how bored I get [05:00] We received a request from the user named 'Jeff Waugh (jdub)' trying to join the team 'Ubuntu Members', but [05:00] [...] [05:00] I'm so declining this [05:00] who's this Jeff Waugh ANYWAY? [05:00] and what is he good for? [05:00] if not wobbly windows [05:01] he doesn't wobble. much. === Burgundavia [n=corey@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fabbione [n=fabbione@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === doko_ [n=doko@66.103.220.223] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ozamosi [n=nnnnozam@h142n6c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === stub [i=stub@sweep.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:24] afternoon all === doko [n=doko@66.103.220.223] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === koke [n=koke@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MagnusR [n=magru@85.194.14.142] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:28] can anyone test nautilus crash for me? [05:28] zyga: is this Dapper? [05:29] spayne: yes [05:29] zyga: ach! sorry i only have it running under pbuilder :( [05:29] and my other laptop is busy atm [05:29] open a folder with nfs mountable folder inside, mount the folder outside of nautilus, open the folder in nautilus [05:29] the folder was not user-mountable === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gma [n=graham@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-74.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:30] WaterSevenUb: hello! :) [05:31] zyga, hey!:) Holiday in here :-p [05:31] WaterSevenUb: same here, the day of the dead [05:31] zyga, yeah:) === mvo [n=egon@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seveaz [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marcin [n=user@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spayne|laptop [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb__ [n=seb128@66.103.220.221] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mez_ [n=Mez@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:40] looks like *ubuntu.com is down === bigcx2 [n=bigcx2@157.182.194.245] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:41] www.ubuntu.com is [05:41] Mez: what's p? [05:41] dunno [05:41] I'm just saying - it's down here too === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kaloz [n=kaloz@arrakis.dune.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:43] Mez: p.u.c is down [05:43] jdub: can i run something by you for the fridge? === seb_ [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:44] spayne|laptop: are you still expecting the tech board to do something about ifolder today? [05:44] tseng: possibly, yes [05:44] tseng: the iFolder guys seem to have some positive stuff [05:45] why did they not reply the to mailing list thread [05:45] tseng: looks like Flaim may be Open Sourced soon [05:45] tseng: good question...let me find out [05:45] again [05:45] what does this have to do with the Tech Board === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:45] (no one answered this either) [05:46] its their software to license as theyd like [05:46] tseng: i answered but it is stuck in my SMTP queue === elarson [n=elarson@pool-207-68-119-250.alt.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:48] If it can be legally redistributed, it can go in Multiverse and iFolder (if it depends on it) can go in there as well. If you think it could be put in Debian main, it can go in Universe and so can iFolder. [05:48] So. Uhm. === JSZ [n=diego@59.Red-80-36-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:49] mjg59: it is complicated as a lot of the licnesing isnt documented well [05:49] mjg59: its completely non-distributable as it stands [05:49] mjg59: which is hopefully what we are going to discuss [05:49] mjg59: but that discussion has nothing at all to do with the tech board [05:49] spayne|laptop: Why not document the licensing rather than talk about doing so? [05:49] tseng: boyd said that he has seen it and thought what was going to be discussed later [05:49] sigh [05:50] mjg59: as i understand, Flaim DB is used by Groupwise and many other Novel products and is non-redistriutable with anyone apart from Novell [05:50] canonical.com is down as well :o [05:50] all the relevant parties understand the problem [05:50] tseng: don't blame me :-) [05:50] please do not waste peoples time trying to get patted on the back or something [05:50] spayne|laptop: So we know it's undistributable. They know it's undistributable. *What is going to be discussed*? === seb128 [n=seb128@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:50] tseng: he has idea idea why the others didn't respond [05:50] We can't do anything about it until the situation is rectified [05:50] mjg59++ [05:50] NOTOURBUG [05:50] mjg59: the manager has been to the legal/flaim department about getting Flaim open sourced for Ubuntu use [05:51] spayne|laptop: I hope you mean "open sourced for anyone's use" [05:51] mjg59: i don't know - hopefully yes [05:51] ? [05:51] mjg59: i'm in the inbetween guy remember [05:51] Wow. [05:51] mjg59: what? [05:51] you are the guy that took over for the inbetween guy [05:51] spayne|laptop: This still doesn't tell me what's actually going to be discussed. [05:51] open source for ubuntu's use is meaningless [05:51] so what do you intend to talk to the TB about? [05:51] which is extremely frustrating [05:52] spayne|laptop: please take it off the agenda [05:52] you're going to discuss with the TB how someone else is doing something non-specific which no-one knows about? [05:52] tseng: why? dholbach suggested it [05:52] spayne|laptop: youve proved the point i think [05:52] tseng: proved what point? why has this been left till today [05:52] tseng: If Novell people are expecting to turn up, it should probably be left there. It looks bad otherwise. [05:52] spayne|laptop: It would be helpful if you could flesh out the agenda item. === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.7.130.247] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:53] mjg59: what do you mean? [05:53] At the moment I have no idea what's supposed to be discussed or what sort of decisions are supposed to be made. [05:53] The tech board isn't there to be told things. It's there to make decisions. [05:53] what can it decide? [05:53] So frame the discussion in such a way that there's a decision to be made. [05:53] If there's no decision to be made, then it shouldn't have been brought up. That's unfortunate, but we'll have to live with it. [05:54] daniels: listening to what Novell have to say and decide if it is satisfactory for ubuntu inclusion [05:54] spayne|laptop: That will depend entirely on what the LICENSE file in the tarball says. [05:54] spayne|laptop: so is a novell representative coming? [05:54] spayne|laptop: if so, then yes, I can see how that would be useful [05:54] daniels: most of the iFolder team yes [05:54] i see [05:55] i will not be a fan of any agreements that dont satisfy DFSG [05:55] And the conclusion there is obvious - if it's distributable, it can be accepted. If it's Free, then it can go in Universe. [05:55] daniels: the manager for the whole iFolder project is coming [05:56] tseng: i'd love a situation that complies with the DFSG but i think getting packages into Ubuntu is the most important issue atm [05:56] tseng: as it is limiting the appeal of iFolder [05:56] tseng: but i'd love something that is DFSG as well [05:57] spayne|laptop: You realise that putting iFolder in multiverse is limiting its appeal anyway [05:57] As long as it's out there, it can never be on the CDs [05:57] mjg59: not as much as the moment - there are NO packages [05:57] daniels: regarding Ubuntu bugzilla #17002, can I ask whether you need any more information? (It's still tagged as NEEDINFO) === marcin [n=user@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:57] mjg59: but any packages are better than no packages 'at the moment' [05:57] spayne|laptop: Don't lose track of the big issue here. We're a Free software distribution. [05:57] mjg59: i am aware of that [05:57] Putting stuff in multiverse should only happen if it's software that people really can't do without [05:57] lunch [05:57] sorry. === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:58] tseng: have fu [05:58] hey ogra [05:58] We shouldn't be advertising multiverse. It's "Oh, yeah, we include some non-free shit if you really need it", not "And in multiverse we have this REALLY COOL STUFF" === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jamesh [n=james@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:59] If you're happy with this stuff in Multiverse, then cool. But that means iFolder gets relegated, and we're not going to talk about how cool it is. [05:59] <\sh> ifolder is not cool when it's not free... [06:00] Xof: finding out if it works with -driver-ati 6.8.2-75 would be interesting [06:00] I'd love to have iFolder goodness, but if it's in multiverse then I really don't care [06:00] \sh, remember just flaim is not cool b/c _it_ is not free :) [06:00] Flaim is bad, i agree [06:00] but if it can be Open Sourced in a reasonable timeframe.... === koke [n=koke@209.104.102.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:01]