[12:04] <signifer123> there a way to stop them from isntalling stuff?
[12:04] <signifer123> installing*
[12:04] <bluefrog-10> they can't install stuff as normal user
[12:04] <ogra> how where ? 
[12:05] <signifer123> anywhere
[12:05] <signifer123> doing this so i can see if i can convince my school to move to linux
[12:05] <ogra> you cant stop them from  compiling and installing stuff in ~/bin ... as you cant avoid that in other OS's
[12:05] <signifer123> aww...
[12:05] <magnon> and stopping them from compiling and installing stuff in their own home dir is yet another limitation you wouldn't need
[12:05] <ogra> you can easily install firefox in your windows homedir, noboidy can prevent you
[12:05] <bluefrog-10> yes but it will confined in their thing, won't mess witht the system
[12:06] <magnon> if anything goes wrong, you can delete their homedir and get up a backup
[12:06] <ogra> its not different in linux
[12:06] <signifer123> there a way to keep them from having access to the hd at all?
[12:06] <magnon> you could of course limit how much memory and disk a user could consume
[12:06] <magnon> that's pretty easy.
[12:06] <signifer123> they can just use the servers shared drive only
[12:07] <magnon> signifer123: then they wouldn't be able to read the freaking programs
[12:07] <signifer123> jsut set everything to 555?
[12:07] <magnon> ugh
[12:07] <ogra> sure, you can set up nfs homedirs ...
[12:07] <magnon> just leave /usr as it is and all that
[12:07] <ogra> wont work
[12:07] <signifer123> 755
[12:07] <signifer123> :-
[12:07] <signifer123> p
[12:07] <ogra> the apps need to be able to access settings to run
[12:07] <ogra> 755 is possible, indeed
[12:07] <magnon> but very ugly
[12:08] <signifer123> agh....
[12:08] <magnon> why would this be a problem, anyway?
[12:08] <signifer123> well then i'll have to do alot befroe i'll be able ot convince them to goto linux :-p
[12:08] <magnon> students aren't inherently evil
[12:08] <signifer123> school thinks so
[12:08] <magnon> they _should_ have access to use their system to learn and all
[12:08] <magnon> school is silly then
[12:08] <signifer123> all they need it for is internet and ofice apps
[12:08] <signifer123> office*
[12:09] <magnon> sure, you could limit everything with SELinux, but that's a LOT of work :P
[12:09] <magnon> just don't install anything else, then
[12:10] <signifer123> but then you have to keep them from installing stuff, ohh and gnome
[12:10] <signifer123> it uses gnome right?
[12:10] <signifer123> :-P
[12:12] <signifer123> i would psot this but couldn't find na edubuntu forum
[12:13] <magnon> there's a mailing list
[12:13] <magnon> what's the issue with gnome?
[12:14] <magnon> you could use kubuntu with edubuntu as well
[12:14] <magnon> and possibly the later xubuntu
[12:16] <signifer123> ohh can i keep them from accessing the system aprt of the menu?
[12:16] <corey_> for dapper, that will be hidden for non-admin users
[12:16] <corey_> s/that/the system menu
[12:16] <magnon> well, they can't _use_ anything in the system menu without being an admin
[12:16] <magnon> so it's just silly to have it there... but it doesn't hurt
[12:17] <corey_> yes, they can use the preferences menu
[12:17] <magnon> that's personal :)
[12:17] <magnon> I think they should be able to
[12:18] <magnon> signifer123: what about trying to find reasons why things working as it is, does not hurt, and give that to the teachers instead?
[12:19] <signifer123> on windows?
[12:19] <magnon> a computer is no good as a tool if you completely limit the toolchain :-/
[12:19] <magnon> no, on edubuntu
[12:19] <signifer123> itso n windows and i want ot convince the trade over...
[12:19] <magnon> right
[12:19] <magnon> but they want a bunch of security, it seems
[12:19] <signifer123> yeah...
[12:19] <magnon> convince them that it's not needed, since it isn't
[12:19] <magnon> and explain why.
[12:19] <magnon> should work nicely
[12:20] <signifer123> well...probably not
[12:20] <magnon> you could also show the plans for edubuntu which aren't implemented yet, there's a bunch of plans in http://www.edubuntu.org
[12:20] <magnon> why not? if they already set their minds on that, but still asking you, why ask you at all?
[12:20] <bluefrog-10> the best thing is to prepare your plan and do a demo
[12:20] <magnon> also
[12:21] <magnon> as Jeff so nicely says
[12:21] <signifer123> i ahvn't set theri minds on linux
[12:21] <magnon> show the benefits rather than anything else :-)
[12:21] <signifer123> so far the only reason i could convince them si because everything they have done to the windows to restrict us i can show them a way around
[12:22] <bluefrog-10> do u have windows thin client on a terminal server or thick clients?
[12:22] <signifer123> we run windows 200 on middle line 1 year old dell
[12:23] <signifer123> 2000
[12:23] <signifer123> with login novell netware
[12:23] <signifer123> shared in our county
[12:23] <bluefrog-10> meaning all clients are windows installed, correct?
[12:23] <signifer123> except the server
[12:24] <signifer123> i think its solaris
[12:24] <signifer123> never checked
[12:24] <signifer123> lol
[12:24] <signifer123> whoops
[12:24] <signifer123> yes
[12:24] <magnon> wow, you're in for saving big money then ;)
[12:24] <signifer123> lol
[12:25] <signifer123> i'm sure the IT staff will be happy to hear they have to learn linux :-P
[12:25] <signifer123> thats gonna be hard to beat
[12:25] <signifer123> ...
[12:25] <magnon> they should be happy to learn!
[12:25] <magnon> :D
[12:26] <bluefrog-10> don't tell them they are going to learn linux but..
[12:26] <signifer123> yeh but the county has to spend $$$ on teaching them
[12:26] <magnon> as I said, long term investment
[12:26] <magnon> since you have next to no licensing costs 
[12:26] <magnon> none if you choose not to have support
[12:26] <bluefrog-10> they will have more time by changing a network card that has failed rather than reinstalling windows..
[12:26] <magnon> true
[12:27] <magnon> maybe they can even lay off one :P
[12:27] <signifer123> and convince them that they bought the office 2002 lisences for nothing becuase we are switching to OO
[12:28] <magnon> return them
[12:28] <magnon> :D
[12:28] <signifer123> i'm sure MS will be happy to refund us becuase we are switching to linux :-P
[12:28] <bluefrog-10> don't talk to them about money they lost if u are not prepared to show them how much they are going to save
[12:29] <bluefrog-10> even in high schools downtime can be transposed in money
[12:29] <signifer123> k
[12:29] <signifer123> gotta start on slideshow :-p
[12:30] <bluefrog-10> and live demo
[12:30] <signifer123> of course
[12:30] <signifer123> whats the min reqs?
[12:30] <signifer123> becuase we have old gateways runnign windows 98 laying off somewhere in the costodial hall
[12:31] <signifer123> not being used
[12:31] <magnon> for thin clients or thick?
[12:31] <signifer123> whatever would work for a live demo
[12:31] <magnon> oh
[12:31] <magnon> you should have a machine that works well then
[12:32] <magnon> don't you have a laptop you could use?
[12:32] <bluefrog-10> to make a demo, server with 256 ram is enough..
[12:32] <signifer123> lemem grab my home pc and drag it up to central office :-P
[12:32] <signifer123> 256 megs?
[12:32] <signifer123> those have like 16 emgs of ram
[12:32] <magnon> ehm
[12:32] <bluefrog-10> well one must be serious at least
[12:32] <magnon> edubuntu might be lighter than windows, but it's not anno 1984
[12:33] <signifer123> lol
[12:33] <bluefrog-10> u don't show how good is ferrari if it has only 3 wheels
[12:33] <signifer123> LOL
[12:33] <magnon> 16 megs isn't even enough for a thin client
[12:33] <signifer123> 32?
[12:33] <magnon> 32 is good for a thin client
[12:33] <signifer123> well i could pop in a 96 meg if they let me take it home
[12:33] <signifer123> making 128 megs
[12:33] <magnon> this is for the thin though
[12:34] <magnon> you need a server as well
[12:34] <bluefrog-10> 32 for clients would be good but beware, they only want office and internet but during the show they will want to see other applications, that u can be sure of
[12:34] <signifer123> well i'm sure they'll keep solaris on the server
[12:34] <magnon> some kind of machine which doesn't suck would do
[12:34] <signifer123> thin client has gnome?
[12:34] <magnon> and the solaris one is probably a different arch
[12:35] <signifer123> well the server is only for novell netware...
[12:35] <magnon> get another machine then
[12:35] <magnon> steal a desktop
[12:35] <signifer123> lol
[12:35] <magnon> if they want you to do a demo they better give you resources
[12:35] <signifer123> idk if i wait like 4 months i'll get my dad s old comp
[12:35] <bluefrog-10> set up your machine in no other solution
[12:35] <signifer123> and edubuntu might get a better release by then
[12:36] <magnon> there's no more edubuntu releases in six months
[12:36] <magnon> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki
[12:36] <magnon> read around for the concept of thin clients
[12:36] <signifer123> the thing is i havn't even convinced them to do a demo
[12:36] <magnon> oh
[12:37] <magnon> then you're ahead of yourselves
[12:37] <signifer123> well i can convince the head of my school easy
[12:37] <bluefrog-10> u have to know what they want to do not what they don't want to do and propose a plan accordingly
[12:37] <signifer123> yeah but first i have to catch their interest
[12:37] <bluefrog-10> just try not to bypass the IT guys
[12:38] <bluefrog-10> u would end up in a one way street
[12:38] <bluefrog-10> sry a dead end street
[12:38] <signifer123> lol, i already annoyed thme my first yer here...
[12:38] <signifer123> year*
[12:38] <signifer123> them*
[12:38] <signifer123> think they forgot about it by now
[12:38] <bluefrog-10> not the good thing to do if you want to convince them
[12:39] <signifer123> well you see i know a few others who want ot get linux on machines
[12:39] <signifer123> so i can have them propose it
[12:39] <signifer123> EdubuntuLite on this cd too?
[12:40] <bluefrog-10> so make a demo with your guys in a club thing or whatever and incidentally invite the IT guys to come and give advice
[12:40] <bluefrog-10> even if they don't anything about linux
[12:40] <signifer123> lol
[12:41] <bluefrog-10> don't ask them for advice they can't give of course
[12:41] <signifer123> crap
[12:41] <signifer123> theres alot of them
[12:41] <signifer123> http://carrollk12.org/admin/techservices/staffext.htm
[12:43] <signifer123> snap
[12:43] <signifer123> Insure that appropriate steps are taken to comply with the Federal No Child Left Behind Act.
[12:43] <signifer123> that might slow down the use of linux
[12:43] <bluefrog-10> how come?
[12:44] <signifer123> well fi they have no clue on how ot use it its a bit hard to keep up
[12:44] <signifer123> if
[12:45] <signifer123> it have rc client?
[12:45] <bluefrog-10> well if they manage servers they are capable to mange linux, u should stop take them for absolute idiots..
[12:46] <signifer123> i mean the teachers
[12:47] <bluefrog-10> time for bed bye
[12:48] <signifer123> well off ot soccer
[12:48] <signifer123> cya guyz
[02:11] <signifer123> hey
[02:45] <arkan0x> mh
[04:23] <dabaR> hi.
[04:23] <dabaR> The link on the www.ubuntu.com page for the wiki(on the top) points to a dead URL.
[04:23] <dabaR> namely, www.ubuntu.com/wiki, instead of wiki.ubuntu.com
[11:42] <signifer123> you guys know it still says ubuntu config?
[12:53] <pips1> highvoltage, ping
[12:56] <highvoltage> pips1: pong
[12:57] <pips1> hi
[12:58] <highvoltage> hi there.
[12:58] <pips1> are we having a meeting now?
[12:59] <mhz> morning you all
[12:59] <highvoltage> pips1: i'm not sure. we're supposed to
[12:59] <highvoltage> hi mhz 
[01:00] <mhz> hi, Mr. Voltage
[01:00] <highvoltage> pips1: but i think it might have been postponed due to UBZ
[01:00] <highvoltage> JaneW isn't connected it seems
[01:01] <pips1> well, on http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event it says the next edubuntu meeting is only nov 16th
[01:01] <pips1> hi mhz
[01:02] <mhz> highvoltage: pips1 
[01:04] <pips1> highvoltage, should we discuss things without JaneW or do you want to wait?
[01:04] <pips1> do you expect anyone else?
[01:06] <mhz> pips1: sorry, what is the discuss. about?
[01:08] <pips1> mhz: edubuntu website
[01:09] <highvoltage> sorry, lost my signal a bit there.
[01:09] <highvoltage> pips1: still here?
[01:09] <pips1> yep
[01:09] <mhz> pips1: what about it?
[01:10] <mhz> pips1: BTW, you've been testing edubuntu? if so, any place I could read about the machines, net, etc you've used?
[01:10] <pips1> mhz, highvoltage wants to get the web team going, I think... ask him! :-)
[01:11] <mhz> highvoltage: count on me? is it moin we're talking? (I love moin, i think we're not fully using its potential)
[01:11] <highvoltage> ok, seems like my connection is fine again.
[01:12] <highvoltage> let's move this discussion to #ubuntu-meeting, that way it gets logged in the right place
[01:12] <highvoltage> edoo: announce meeting in #ubuntu-devel, now!
[01:13] <pips1> ubuntu-devel or ubuntu-meeting ?
[01:13] <highvoltage> sorry, i'm being silly. ubuntu-meeting
[01:14] <pips1> ok, i'm there :-)
[01:14] <highvoltage> mhz: can you also join #ubuntu-meeting?
[01:14] <highvoltage> cool, let's start
[01:21] <pips1> jsgotangco, will you join us at #ubuntu-meeting ?
[02:09] <pips1> hello
[02:10] <mhz> back
[02:11] <mhz> hno73: sorry, what do you need?
[02:11] <pips1> mhz, i think everyone is now at #ubuntu-doc but not sure
[02:11] <mhz> oh...
[03:02] <pips1> hi ogra
[03:02] <ogra> moin
[03:02] <pips1> exactly :-)
[03:03] <pips1> are you aware of the ubuntu website troubles?
[03:04] <pips1> apparently the plone site "imploded"
[03:04] <pips1> exploded, whatever
[03:05] <jsgotangco> chaos! true and pure!
[03:05] <pips1> jsgotangco, oh yeah!
[03:06] <pips1> jsgotangco, it's a bit over my head, to be honest!!
[03:06] <jsgotangco> pips1: its ok we're just moving from A to B really
[03:07] <pips1> the server is so painfully slow, though
[03:07] <pips1> :-/
[03:08] <ogra> didnt hear anything
[03:08] <jsgotangco> ogra: sure
[03:08] <jsgotangco> enjoy the blizzard of montreal
[03:09] <jsgotangco> hno73: do you use an eye tracker?
[03:10] <hno73> jsgotangco: no, a stck :)
[03:10] <hno73> stick
[03:10] <jsgotangco> with an on screen keyboard?
[03:10] <hno73> possibly the best mouthstick in the world :)
[03:10] <hno73> on a keyboard
[03:11] <jsgotangco> i can't visualize it
[03:11] <jsgotangco> im trying dasher and other apps
[03:15] <mhz_gettin_ready> hno73: did you see my corections at -doc?
[03:29] <mhz_gettin_ready> hi JaneW 
[03:29] <mhz_gettin_ready> JaneW: did you solve your 'inbox' issue?
[07:54] <pips1_food> highvoltage, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSiteOfficialContent
[07:56] <highvoltage> pips1: very, very nice!
[07:58] <symbulos> is juliux aroun?
[07:58] <juliux> yes
[07:58] <juliux> how can i help you?
[07:59] <symbulos> hi, do you remember our discussion about edubuntu?
[07:59] <juliux> yes a little bit
[08:00] <symbulos> I would be really grateful if you coud burn the DVD and send it. I pay for everyting. I go a look around but withut good results.
[08:00] <juliux> symbulos, ok i can do that
[08:01] <juliux> symbulos, how much dvds you need?
[08:01] <juliux> symbulos, can you send me a mail at juliux@ubuntu-de.org 
[08:01] <symbulos> just one, then I can duplicate easily
[08:01] <symbulos> yes of course
[08:01] <symbulos> wait
[08:01] <juliux> ok
[08:05] <symbulos> just sent, let me know if you receive it. We should be soon able to have an office not far with broadband and everything, but we have a demo on the 18, we would like to have a copy and test before then.
[08:05] <juliux> ok i will brun the cd today and i can bring it tommor to the post office
[08:05] <juliux> s/cd/dvd
[08:08] <symbulos> s/cd/dvd:-)
[08:08] <symbulos> thanks, let me know how much do I have to send you, can do transfer from Deutsche Bank through friend
[08:11] <symbulos> have you had a go with it on laptops?
[08:12] <symbulos> we were thinking of using trying it on FS Amilo D.
[08:13] <pips1> highvoltage, ah you are still around!
[08:14] <pips1> highvoltage, I just sent you an email...
[08:17] <pips1> highvoltage, anyway I need to go now... talk to you later! bye!
[08:19] <symbulos> juliux: i have to go. Thank you for DVD!
[08:20] <symbulos> bye
[09:02] <juliux> are the edubuntu and the breezy dvd the some?
[09:03] <signifer123> hello
[09:03] <juliux> hi signifer123 
[09:04] <juliux> ogra, are the edubuntu and the breezy dvds the same?
[09:23] <smykes> guys I cant connect to a SMB share on a 2000 machine :/
[09:25] <bluefrog-10> yes
[09:25] <bluefrog-10> try places > network servers
[09:26] <bluefrog-10> oh sry i read can i
[09:27] <smykes> im trying to log in but its attaching @ubuntu to any user name
[09:27] <bluefrog-10> no way to erase it after it's attached?
[09:27] <smykes> no it just tells me You must log in to access student@UBUNTU domain BLAH
[09:28] <smykes> I just need it to be student
[09:28] <smykes> im changing the host name
[09:28] <smykes> maybe that will work
[09:28] <smykes> brb
[09:28] <bluefrog-10> from linux into windows or reverse?
[09:29] <smykes> linux to windows
[09:30] <smykes> waiting for it to shut down
[09:30] <smykes> everything seems fucked up
[09:30] <smykes> hard reboot :(
[09:38] <ogra> juliux, indeed they are not :0
[09:38] <ogra> juliux, the edubuntu DVD contains the edubuntu CD plus all of main
[09:39] <juliux> ogra, i see, but the name of the iso is also breey
[09:39] <ogra> the ubuntu DVD contains the ubuntu CD plus all of main
[09:39] <ogra> sure, they are the breezy release
[09:39] <juliux> ogra, but the filenames are the same
[09:39] <ogra> kubuntu is called breezy too
[09:39] <juliux> oh not good
[09:42] <juliux> ogra, and do you have a short german text about edubuntu ?
[09:42] <ogra> not yet... i have an english presentation... i'll put it online somewhere...
[09:42] <ogra> sorry, in a meeting currently, cant talk...
[09:42] <juliux> ok
[09:42] <juliux> ogra, link?
[09:43] <ogra> i'll give it to you if its up
[09:43] <juliux> ogra, i have somebody who will translate it into german
[09:48] <signifer123> got it working yet?