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highvolt1gepips1: sorry, lost my connection there for a moment01:06
highvolt1gepips1: you still here?01:07
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highvoltageEdubuntu meeting starting.01:14
pips1good stuff01:14
highvoltageTopic: Website plan forward.01:14
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highvoltageNo decisions will be made, we will merely discuss and get ideas together.01:15
highvoltageFor the record, please state your name.01:15
=== highvoltage is Jonathan Carter
pips1pips1 is Philipp Schroeder01:15
=== mhz is Mauricio Hernandez Z.
highvoltageok, I think it's just the three of us.01:15
mhzso far01:15
highvoltagemhz: to answer your question, currently it's practically all moin.01:16
highvoltagebut we want a CMS for galleries and all the nice stuff.01:16
pips1highvoltage, did Quim ever get in touch with you?01:16
highvoltagepips1: nope.01:16
mhzhighvoltage: galeries? nice stuff?01:16
highvoltageyes, pips1, can you expand on all the reasons we want a cms?01:17
mhzafaik, Moin has a plugin that works cool as gallery01:17
highvoltagepips1 and i liked drupal, although it's based on php and because of security reasons, many aren't very happy with it.01:17
pips1mhz, I started some brainstorming in the wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan01:17
pips1mhz, also have a look at this in particular: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration01:18
highvoltagemhz: i also suggest you join https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-website01:18
mhzwow, lot of info :)01:19
highvoltageEveryone else who may be reading may also join the edubuntu website team, if they are interested in joining.01:19
mhzbefore I start reading can I say something?01:19
highvoltageSo, drupal isn't our best option. But there's also plone, which I like, and which many people find good.01:19
pips1mhz, on the latter page, there is a section "Wiki: Pros and Cons"01:19
highvoltageIt's also technically sound, so we'll have little resistence to it.01:19
highvoltagepips1: you said you also liked plone?01:19
pips1highvoltage, to be honest, not that much01:20
pips1plone definitely has its merits01:21
highvoltageand if it was plone vs moin?01:21
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highvoltageplone also has the benefit in that ubuntu.com runs on it.01:22
highvoltagehi jerome01:22
jsgotangco(didn't know there was a meeting) =)01:22
jsgotangcohi =)01:22
highvoltagewe're discussing the website, and the possibility of using a CMS instead of moin.01:23
pips1well, as i outlined on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration, there are pros and cons...01:23
highvoltageany thoughts?01:23
jsgotangcohighvoltage: a CMS would have better ACLs imo01:23
highvoltageyes, that is one nice benefit.01:24
highvoltagepips1: so drupal would be your ideal choice?01:24
pips1yes, I guess there needs to be some control over "official" content01:25
mhzhighvoltage: I think that before we propose to change the 'medium' (wiki, cms, whatever), we should only state what we think it is needed to accomplish, and analiyze how we can do it by using current infrastructure01:25
highvoltagemhz: agreed.01:25
pips1highvoltage, as I said on that wiki page, I don't have hands on Drupal experience, but it does seem to have very nice features and fill our "gap" nicely01:26
pips1mhz: agreed01:26
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mhzpips1: i'm still reading the urls I've been pointed to, I can't find the 'gap'01:26
highvoltagepips1: plone has all the same features as drupal, or am I missing something?01:26
mhzwith current Moin01:26
jsgotangcoi'd prefer plone01:27
pips1highvoltage, AFAIK, plone doesn't have the same "taxonomy" feature/structure01:27
highvoltagepips1: what's "taxonomy"?01:28
pips1taxonomy is categorising content, so it can be accessed better (keyword search, but also automatic menu)01:28
pips1it allows you to create dynamic navigation menus01:29
pips1plone has that, but in a more "traditional" way, I think01:30
highvoltageok, i understand what you're saying, I might have to look into that more closely.01:31
highvoltagedo we want to use content that way though? wouldn't we have big overlap with the wiki?01:31
pips1well, integration is a good thing I think, so you would ideally want the cms to play together nicely with the wiki01:32
pips1we definitely want to avoid duplicationg content01:33
highvoltageyes, well the way i thought about it, we should keep as much of the user-editable data on the wiki as possible, and as much of the "admin-editable" stuff on the website.01:34
highvoltagethat's why i think the taxonomy won't be a big issue with plone anyway.01:34
pips1i have looked at the ubuntu website to get a quick overview of what information we need for edubuntu01:35
pips1the good news is: we can probably just re-use the most content from ubuntu.com01:36
pips1and so far I have only identified about a dozen "official" pages that need to be re-written for edubuntu01:36
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highvoltageyes, i think it's important to keep a website such as edubuntu to as few pages as possible, too many pages are often confusing.01:37
highvoltageand we don't want to intimidate our users with too much information at once.01:37
pips1I am mostly concerned that we really make it userfriendly/ newbie friendly01:37
highvoltagepips1: have you looked at http://www.creativecommons.org yet?01:38
pips1however, there is lots of information that people will want to know about if they get more deeply involved01:38
highvoltagei love the way they simplify things, the most important functions are two huge pictures on the main page. that's very nice, imo.01:39
pips1and we should make finding all that other useful "advanced" info easy...01:39
highvoltageyes, 100% agreed.01:39
pips1yes, creativecommons.org is good, what I like about it is that the content is layed out for the users perspective01:40
highvoltageyes, I'd like a similar idea for us.01:40
pips1and it is geared towards "user tasks"01:41
mhzpips1: highvoltage: I have read 3 urls, and AFAIK, so far, there are only 2 features I ignore if Moin has: forum and 'obvious' attachement and category.01:41
highvoltageso you can switch views, one page will be for users, with a users view, one for developers, with a developers view, etc.01:41
pips1i.e. the user wants to achieve someting and the labelling on the website reflects that task01:41
mhzpips1: highvoltage: the rest of the features mentioned, I think Moin can cover them01:41
mhzit is just a matter of how we set moin to work01:42
pips1mhz: shoot!01:42
highvoltagemhz: how intuitive is it? i've found that most users have trouble getting to terms with moin.01:42
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mhzyes, Moin current version is not as user friendly as new Moin version (almost done)01:42
mhznew version has:01:43
highvoltageah, nice. i think we should look into that then.01:43
mhza full WYIWYG editor01:43
mhzalso, any moin version can render herarquical  menus on left or right side, it all depends on CSS01:44
highvoltageok, to be honest, i'm not a big fan of how moin currently works, but if it's going to change drastically, i think we should take a look at it.01:44
mhznews can be spotted "automatically" if we want them to be rendered on a front page (ie)01:45
pips1mhz: well, having "buttons" for text formatting is nice, but I still think that wikis are not very newbie friendly, unfortunately01:45
highvoltagewhat i do like about plone and drupal is, if we used that then we'd need very little other web plugins such as galleries, news functionality, etc.01:46
jsgotangcomhz: we need a working solution now, not a nice to have in the future :P01:46
mhzjust a basic example: www.tecnocimiento.cl (1st page calls 4 pages)01:46
highvoltagemhz: do you have galleries in there?01:47
mhzfor a more advanced example: http://www.druidwiki.org/01:47
mhzhighvoltage: nop, but I can fetch urls that do01:47
highvoltagemhz: is that the new moin?01:48
mhznop, that's the point. With old moin , you can still play a lot if we ant it to01:48
pips1mhz: tecnocimiento: nice style :-)01:48
mhzthx (under development)01:48
highvoltagemhz: it still isn't very intuitive, but nicer at least. it looks like they've learned a bit from mediawiki.01:48
mhzMoin gang quickly adpat to users need01:49
mhzhence, I always endup proposing to contact them and aske them how we can use Moin to cover our needs01:49
mhzif they say it is not possible, then of course we must change01:50
highvoltageokay, i'm making notes for the list.01:50
jsgotangcomhz: that's moin test? wow01:50
mhzhighvoltage: i'll show you new moin now..01:50
mhzjsgotangco: which01:50
jsgotangcooh wait01:50
jsgotangcothis is old moin01:50
jsgotangcowith some spiffy stuff going01:51
mhzhehee, yes01:51
highvoltageso far, we have discussed drupal, which is nice, but php based. plone is good, but not exactly as nice taxonomy as drupal. moin covers our feature wish list, but there are usability concerns.01:51
mhzand I've seen Moin sites that you'll never guess is Moin working there01:51
jsgotangcowell i've seen mediawiki sites that don't look like mediawiki at all01:51
mhzhighvoltage: usability concerns, we should list them and ask moin developers to answer01:52
mhzjsgotangco: lol01:52
mhzu're right01:52
pips1highvoltage, moin covers our feature wishlist?01:52
highvoltagemhz says it can!01:52
mhzi say that we can make it01:53
pips1well, I guess we need to discuss 01:53
jsgotangcowhere's the new moin sample?01:53
mhzedit that page, please01:53
highvoltagethis is a mediawiki site: http://tango-project.org/Tango_Desktop_Project - nice eh?01:53
mhzand use the GUI 01:53
pips1we do need some access control for "official" content, no?01:53
mhzpips1: yes01:54
mhzpips1: moin can give you that if admin lets us :)01:54
pips1do we need an approval workflow or not?01:54
highvoltagepips1: i don't think so. we have wiki for that.01:55
mhzhighvoltage: see? CSS work, mainly01:55
mhzthat tango project is CSS work01:55
pips1ie someone drafts some official content and that needs to be proofread and approved before it goes live...?01:55
highvoltageyes, i understand that. but things like adding screen shots / photos in a gallery... is that easy?01:55
pips1highvoltage, do you know how henrik is currently working with wiki+plone?01:56
highvoltagei just don't get the 'rich' feeling from moin that i get from plone and drupal.01:56
pips1does he use an approval workflow?01:56
highvoltagepips1: yes, let me see if i can track him down...01:56
highvoltagei asked hno73 to join. not sure if he's at pc at the moment.01:57
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highvoltagehi henrik01:57
hno73greetings :)01:57
mhzhighvoltage: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket#head-1db8505849ee845d904c6e047f4d91dc130eb8a001:58
pips1also, what are the ubuntu folks using for a) official news b) screenshots (image gallery)?01:58
mhzhighvoltage: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket#head-93f5d33cba6ed9053f38e766b530bac0241344d601:58
highvoltagehno73: do you remember the drupal discussion at the edubuntu summit?01:58
mhzhi, hno73 01:58
hno73highvoltage: right?01:58
highvoltageok, drupal is almost a no-no since it's based on php01:59
highvoltageif we'd want to use it, we'd have to have very good reasons for it.01:59
highvoltageplone is a good option imo,01:59
highvoltagemhz says that moin is sufficient for our needs.01:59
hno73not sure what you are discussing just now, but I' about 2cm away from having moin working quite well as a CMS01:59
hno73in fact https://www.ubuntu.com/ is running moin now :)01:59
highvoltagesince you're working on both plone and moin, we'd like your input.02:00
pips1hi hno7302:00
mhzhighvoltage: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket#head-7b3ef0dfc3a812f857ed59d1efd9b988792cd58902:00
hno73pips1: hey :)02:00
mhzhighvoltage: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket#head-6ccf6ec1018b7cdb416e7f06e9d889909602e0b702:00
hno73Plone is completely broken02:00
highvoltageplone on ubuntu, or plone in general?02:00
pips1we are discussing about the best way forward for the edubuntu "official" website and the comunity "tool set", i.e. wiki, irc, etc02:00
hno73I mean really the Ubuntu plone site fell over and refused to come back up02:01
pips1hno73, I was wondering what the heck is going on...02:01
hno73moin can do all you want and more, with a few tweaks02:01
pips1I was trying to access it all day long :-(02:01
highvoltagefridge and artwork, are those also moin?02:02
hno73yepp. I'm in the middle of a rescue opperation just now02:02
hno73fridge is custom stuff and art.u.c is based on art.gnome.org02:02
pips1hno73, since you asked about input from us, I drafted some thoughts on the wiki02:03
pips1and in particular02:03
jsgotangcohi hno73 02:03
hno73hi jsgotangco02:03
jsgotangcowhat happened to the plone engine?02:04
jsgotangcoeven planet is borked02:04
hno73The plone site broke into 27 separate pieces and refused reasembly02:05
pips1huh?! wow02:05
hno73planet unwisely uses the header directly from the plone site02:05
hno73Yeah, so I'm trying to rescue it all now. I could use some help :)02:06
highvoltagehno73: i don't have access or much skill (i think) with that, but something i can do?02:06
hno73It could be an interesting exercise in 'how to build a website with moin'02:07
hno73highvoltage: It's quite simple. I just need to get a bunch of pages wikifyed02:07
hno73These pages http://gentoo.warthogs.hbd.com:8002/ubuntu/community02:07
hno73or rather http://gentoo.warthogs.hbd.com:8002/ubuntu/ etc02:08
highvoltagemhz, gsgotanco, pip1: ok, let's continue this meeting at another time and help out hno73, ok?02:08
hno73Need to go into a wiki, like
highvoltagei think we've layed out most of the issues.02:08
hno73and then we can put it up on the new moin-based main site02:08
pips1highvoltage, agreed, we should leave the channel anyway because time is up, no?02:09
jsgotangcosure let's move to edubuntu02:09
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hno73thanks guys :)02:09
highvoltagewhere can we take this further -doc or edubuntu?02:09
pips1highvoltage, sorry?02:10
jsgotangcosure lets do it in -doc02:10
pips1ah, ubuntu-doc ?02:10
highvoltage--- meeting ended ---02:10
highvoltageyes, #ubuntu-doc02:10
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cyphasehey everyone09:32
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ubuntu_demonhi all11:52
ubuntu_demonThe community council meeting about the forums is in one hour right ?11:53
ubuntu_demonDaylights savings time just got changed here. And I'm currently running on a slow box with icewm (gnome has a nice utc capable clock) That's why I check :)11:54
geekchic9What is the community council going to discuss about the forums?11:54
ubuntu_demonthe backyard and the new ombudsmen are the main issues I believe11:55
ubuntu_demonand the guidelines11:55
ubuntu_demongeekchic9: are you active at the forums ?11:56
ubuntu_demonjust curious11:56
ubuntu_demonwell I'm back in an hour. ttyl :)11:57
geekchic9Eh, I'm probably not as active as some, but I read them when I have the time, ubuntu_demon11:58

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