[12:02] <tsume> dilinger: netbsd gained centrino support.. I had it installed.. you wouldn't believe what I ran in to..
[12:02] <tsume> dilinger: I ran in to the centrino keyboard/touchpad ps rate problem :
[12:02] <tsume> )
[12:03] <zyga> hello
[12:04] <tsume> dilinger: ubuntu is really magicaly :) it senses the stupid toshiba based touchpad and fixes the psrate though :)
[12:09] <zyga> what to do with packages that have totally broken .po and .pot files?
[12:09] <zyga> like totally out-of-date and broken/inexisting .po/pot build system
[12:38] <Erlang> ah...
[12:40] <Erlang> Seems like a more suitable place for my question.
[12:41] <Erlang> Is there a way to create a pbuilder-chroot to build ubuntu packages on Debian?  I can't seem to find that anywhere despite reading that it is possible.
[12:48] <zyga> Erlang: check the wiki PbuilderHowto (case might vary)
[12:48] <mdke> Erlang, did you try https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[12:48] <mdke> not sure if it will help
[12:49] <zyga> carlos_: hello
[12:49] <Erlang> The only page I found on the wiki for that tells how to make a pbuilder-chroot for Ubuntu on Ubuntu.
[12:49] <carlos> zyga, hi
[12:49] <Erlang> The thing is that the Debian pbuilder doesn't support 'breezy' as a distribution, for example...
[12:49] <zyga> carlos: what to do when a package has totally broken build system and outdated .pot and .po files?
[12:49] <zyga> Erlang: read that wiki
[12:50] <mdke> zyga, file a bug? submit a patch?
[12:50] <carlos> zyga, what to do about what?
[12:50] <carlos> zyga, I mean, I need more context
[12:51] <Erlang> zyga: I've read PbuilderHowto.  It explains well the Ubuntu-pbuilder on Ubuntu case, but doesn't solve the "on Debian" part of my problem.
[12:51] <zyga> carlos: contact upstream/fix whatever?
[12:51] <zyga> Erlang: ah
[12:51] <carlos> zyga, usually, fix it for Ubuntu and also contact upstream
[12:52] <carlos> as soon as it's fixed for ubuntu, Rosetta will get the fixed data
[12:52] <zyga> carlos: I'm not sure how to fix it though, that's a 100% python app, it uses some automagic and has a strange directory layout
[12:52] <zyga> carlos: it has unusual makefiles too
[12:53] <carlos> zyga, then ask for help to other Ubuntu developer or talk directly with upstream
[12:53] <zyga> okay
[12:53] <zyga> I'll ask mvo as soon as he's around, he seems to know python packaging well
[12:53] <zyga> the package in question is gramps, really nice software
[12:56] <Kamion> Erlang: very current debootstrap in Debian handles breezy, so it should be at most a trivial pbuilder hack to support breezy
[12:56] <Kamion> like a pbuilder.conf change or something, and point it at http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/
[12:57] <Erlang> Kamion: I was noticing the exact same thing just as you wrote this.  I saw the only diff between Ubuntu pbuilder and Debian pbuilder is that the former defaults to debootstrap...
[12:58] <Kamion> yeah, you want to use debootstrap for Ubuntu, cdebootstrap doesn't support Ubuntu even *in* Ubuntu
[12:58] <Erlang> yay!
[12:59] <Erlang> Thank you.  I just upgraded my debootstrap and it works.
[12:59] <Kamion> cool, good stuff
[01:00] <Erlang> building breezy chroot right as we speak.  Thank you.
[01:03] <mdke> i'm still getting errors downloading security universe, http://pastebin.com/415472
[01:03] <mdke> any ideas? occasionally it goes away, but the general rule is that it doesn't work :/
[01:07] <pitti> jordi: can you please update the spec status? we don't need any discussion any more (PendingReview)
[01:20] <pitti> seb128: ping
[01:21] <seb128> pitti: pong
[01:22] <pitti> seb128: " If totem-gstreamer (built against 0.9) does not satisfy the requirements above, we will switch to totem-xine"
[01:22] <pitti> seb128: surely that is 0.10?
[01:22] <seb128> pitti: yeah 0.9 atm will be 0.10 in decembre
[01:22] <pitti> seb128: or do you specifically want to test it with the current version?
[01:22] <seb128> no, I used 0.9/0.10 for the same thing
[01:22] <pitti> seb128: what are "the requirements above"?
[01:23] <seb128> good question
[01:24] <seb128> pitti: I can update that to "doesn't work well enough" if you want
[01:24] <pitti> that sounds better, yes
[01:24] <pitti> please also s/0.9/0.10/
[01:24] <pitti> otherwise you would not need this condition
[01:26] <seb128> pitti: updated
[01:27] <pitti> seb128: "not well enough" is pretty handwavy...
[01:28] <seb128> pitti: do you have an idea of less handwavy criterious?
[01:29] <pitti> seb128: a list of supported formats would be nice
[01:29] <pitti> seb128: like "encrypted DVDs, MPEG-2, MPEG-4, ogg, etc."
[01:29] <seb128> "This topic is not related to support for particular codecs, but to the general infrastructure needed to support all kinds of video playback."
[01:29] <pitti> right
[01:29] <seb128> from Introduction
[01:29] <pitti> but if a spec contains a conditions, it must be clearly defined
[01:29] <seb128> the issue we have a like a/v sync issue
[01:30] <pitti> seb128: what about this:
[01:30] <pitti> seb128: "if t-g does not support the same features/codes like -xine..."
[01:30] <seb128> the issue is not the feature, it does
[01:30] <seb128> that's how laggy it is, how good the a/v sync is
[01:30] <seb128> pretty handwavy stuff :)
[01:31] <seb128> that pretty the feeling you have while playing some files rather than some fixed points imho
[01:31] <pitti> ok
[01:31] <pitti> is there a separate spec about codecs then?
[01:31] <seb128> no, should we?
[01:31] <pitti> I think it's the lack of codeds that matters a lot
[01:31] <seb128> jdub: thoughs?
[01:32] <pitti> I was never able to playback the majority of my videos with gstreamer so far
[01:32] <seb128> yeah, thanks patents
[01:32] <seb128> ffmpeg, quicktime, ...
[01:32] <jdub> no, the point of the spec is to have good playback of theora/vorbis at a minimum
[01:32] <jdub> the codec issue would be another spec
[01:32] <pitti> ok
[01:33] <pitti> seb128: "well enough in terms of a/v synchronisation"
[01:33] <seb128> pitti: let me change it again and ping you back
[01:33] <pitti> seb128: or just "does not have a reasonable a/v sync"
[01:33] <pitti> if that's what you actually care about
[01:36] <seb128> pitti: what about
[01:36] <seb128>  * If totem-gstreamer (built against 0.10) doesn't plays vorbis/theora files correctly (with no lag and good a/v sync) we will switch to totem-xine
[01:36] <seb128> s/good/a good/
[01:37] <jdub> seb128: "at least vorbis/theora"
[01:38] <seb128> jdub: right
[01:41] <seb128> pitti: updated
[01:42] <pitti> seb128: doesn't s/plays/play/ :-) 
[01:42] <pitti> seb128: but it sounds much better now, thanks
[01:43] <pitti> seb128: same issue on the next line?
[01:43] <pitti> seb128: i. e. if a/v sync in 0.10 is unreasonable, switch back to 0.8?
[01:45] <seb128> pitti: no, I should drop the other line in fact
[01:46] <seb128> pitti: updated
[01:47] <ogra> mdz, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/thin-client-memory-usage
[01:47] <seb128> pitti: the second line didn't make sense, the spec if for the video player, not the desktop. And GNOME 2.14 is going to use gstreamer0.10 anyway, so we are not going to patch all the desktop to use and outdated version
[01:50] <pitti> seb128: makes sense
[01:51] <mdz> ogra: don't forget to add new specs to UBZ (I did it for you on that one)
[01:51] <pitti> seb128: approved, congrats :-)
[01:53] <seb128> pitti: thanks!
[01:53] <ogra> mdz, thanks...
[01:54] <seb128> jdub: should I ask to have https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/extra-desktop-planning pushed so we get a slot on the schedule for it?
[01:55] <jdub> seb128: mark's doing that
[01:56] <seb128> fine with me :)
[01:57] <seb128> jdub: maybe you should subscribe to https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/gdm-roadmap so if it gets scheduled again they will put you on the slot
[01:57] <jdub> seb128: ok
[02:34] <Lord_Maynoth> anyone home?
[02:50] <mpt> Lord_Maynoth, usual IRC rules apply: Ask meaningful questions, and don't ask to ask :-)
[02:51] <Lord_Maynoth> it just seemed dead
[02:51] <Lord_Maynoth> I was wondering
[02:51] <mpt> Many of the developers are at UBZ and have gone out for dinner right now
[02:51] <Lord_Maynoth> does anyone here know if dapper will autodetect your windows partitions and name them something meaningful like C:, D: etc?
[02:52] <Lord_Maynoth> (yes I am aware there is a script)
[02:52] <Lord_Maynoth> I am just curious
[03:00] <sladen> Lord_Maynoth: detect, yes.  autoname, no
[03:01] <Lord_Maynoth> so dapper will detect my drives without me having to run a script?
[03:01] <sladen> Lord_Maynoth: during the installer, you can decide where to mount them.  Eg.  /media/c
[03:01] <sladen> Lord_Maynoth: the answer to the question I think you might be trying to ask is probably "no"
[03:03] <Lord_Maynoth> so after i install dapper I will have to download that script and run it like I do in breezy in order to autodetect my drives?
[03:03] <Lord_Maynoth> or will that be done in the install process without me having to download and run the script?
[03:08] <predius_> hey, anyone here who was involved in the live-cd creation?
[03:28] <Riddell> mako: are you coming to the conference?
[03:32] <MicahC> I have a difficult question concerning ubuntu, I have an idea of how to make win32 codecs easier to install.
[03:32] <MicahC> I built a little python script to copy the correct from the Windows CD that the user owns.
[03:33] <MicahC> My thought is that for people who aren't very computer literate it would be easier for them to get the codecs using a 'Wizard'.
[03:34] <MicahC> It would download updated version of the codecs from the MS website in a 20MB download.
[03:35] <MicahC> I really just have one question, is me doing this worth the effort?
[03:36] <MicahC> I think it could make the distribution of media codecs a little less nefarious that it is today.
[03:36] <mako> Riddell: nope, i'm not going ot make it this time
[03:36] <mako> i
[03:36] <MicahC> Where would be the best place to ask this question, if not here?
[03:37] <mako> Riddell: i really wanted to come for the most recent weekend but could not
[03:37] <mako> and i don't feel like i'd have a lot to contribute to the LP stuff
[03:37] <predius_> MicahC: wait for an answer.
[03:38] <predius_> people will check back later, probably.
[03:41] <Lord_Maynoth_> anyone here know if dapper drake will automatically detect and set up your windows partitions without having to download a script of the internet?
[03:42] <predius_> Lord_Maynoth_: What do you mean?
[03:42] <Lord_Maynoth_> well in breezy you can have your drives autodetected and set up
[03:42] <Lord_Maynoth_> but you have to download and run a script to do it
[03:43] <predius_> ah, in the fstab?
[03:43] <predius_> automounte?
[03:43] <predius_> *mounted
[04:21] <LaserJock> azeem: ping?
[04:22] <Lord_Maynoth_> I think you should just install and your windows partitions are allready set up and accessable without having to download and run a script
[04:22] <Lord_Maynoth_> etc
[09:49] <tepsipakki> kamion: pxelinux 3.20 (-pre3 now) includes support for menus and password authentication.. maybe that will be used for dapper?-)
[09:50] <tepsipakki> when 3.20final is released
[09:50] <tepsipakki> I just tested it and works fine, installing breezy atm
[11:12] <mantiena> Kamion_, hi
[11:12] <zakame> hi all\
[11:13] <mantiena> hi zakame 
[11:14] <zakame> what's up?
[11:25] <mantiena> zakame, hehe, lots up ;)
[11:28] <zakame> hehe
[11:28] <mantiena> whats down ? :)
[11:30] <zakame> nothing much
[11:30] <mantiena> why OOo 2.0 final is not in dapper ?
[11:38] <zakame> prolly still in experimental
[11:39] <mantiena> zakame, could you tell em URL ?
[12:26] <green-mouse> hi were i can report about broken dependence?
[12:27] <hunger> green-mouse: The bugtracker.
[12:27] <hunger> green-mouse: Hi;-)
[12:28] <green-mouse> hunger: :) bugzilla.ubuntu.com ?
[12:29] <hunger> green-mouse: IIRC that is the one for breezy. Dapper bugs should go into launchpad.ubuntu.com I think.
[12:29] <hunger> green-mouse: I am no developer though, so I hope I am not wrong.
[12:30] <green-mouse> hunger: thank you
[01:05] <maswan> 10 minute outage on se.{releases,archive} tonight, emergency security upgrade to campus routers
[01:08] <Znarl> maswan : Noted
[01:35] <pef> elmo: ping
[02:31] <Kamion_> tepsipakki: I expect we'll be using syslinux 3.*, yes; exactly what version remains to be seen
[03:40] <zyga> any glibc devels/maintainers around?
[03:40] <Robot101> Diziet|ubz: why is libadns gpl and not lgpl? :(
[03:50] <\sh> infinity: can u give back python-kde3 again? looks like that it was too fast somehow...compiles on my dapper pbuilder quite fine
[04:03] <Diziet|ubz> robot101: GPL> You've read http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html, right ?
[04:03] <Keybuk> jbailey: http://www.kernel.org/git/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commit;h=c895fd002763d6ae808e820020dc54e74c347fc2
[04:04] <Amaranth> GPLing library is just asking people to not take you seriously
[04:04] <Amaranth> err, libraries
[04:04] <Diziet|ubz> amaranth: ???
[04:04] <Diziet|ubz> Anyway, I don't care if they take me seriously :-).
[04:04] <Robot101> Diziet|ubz: it prevents us from using it in code which is also LGPL but is being funded by Nokia
[04:05] <Diziet|ubz> LGPL and GPL are compatible.  What's the problem ?
[04:05] <Diziet|ubz> Or is the problem that Nokia want to use the code they're funding also in their proprietary products ?
[04:05] <Robot101> they can't extend the resulting thing with proprietary code
[04:05] <Diziet|ubz> So Nokia can't take my code and freeload with it.  I don't see the problem.
[04:05] <tseng> the second.
[04:05] <Kamion_> Amaranth: that's demonstrably untrue; see libreadline
[04:06] <Diziet|ubz> If you're serious about wanting to do this, have someone from Nokia contact me with a _serious_ offer.
[04:06] <Robot101> that's not really their motivation, they want the whole thing to be free, but parts are patented and they would not be able to make any free software
[04:06] <Diziet|ubz> Patented by Nokia ?
[04:06] <Robot101> not necessarily, but some stuff is
[04:07] <Diziet|ubz> So Nokia could solve this patent problem by using their muscle, if they cared.
[04:07] <Amaranth> Kamion: Exactly, no closed-source app can use libreadline.
[04:07] <Kamion> Amaranth: that's the desired effect
[04:07] <Robot101> whether or not it's their patent that the legal department refuses to allow to be used in gpl code, or someone else's patent they can't be seen to use in free code, or must license
[04:07] <Robot101> it's the same outcome - in order to have the functionality, they need a bit of closed code
[04:08] <Robot101> they'd rather this was an add-on to an application that was otherwise free
[04:08] <Diziet|ubz> `The legal department refuses' is a way of saying `we don't want to'.
[04:08] <Kamion> Amaranth: the point of GPLing libreadline is to arrange that free software has better command-line completion than non-free software - which is visibly generally the case
[04:08] <jbailey> Keybuk: Err.  This means all the rules *have* to move into the initramfs?
[04:08] <Robot101> the people we're dealing with do, but it's a large company and the ~200 people who understand free software are outnumbered by the legal team I'm sure
[04:08] <Keybuk> jbailey: I'm not sure, I'm just reviewing the implications of it
[04:08] <Diziet|ubz> Anyway, I'm very serious.  If Nokia actually want to negotiate then I could be paid off.
[04:09] <Kamion> jbailey: looks like we could udevcontrol reload_rules after mounting the real root?
[04:09] <Diziet|ubz> If they don't want to pay, _and_ they don't want to share, then they're just freeloading.
[04:09] <Robot101> the specific instance we're looking at is the best free SIP library in existence, which has been LGPL'd by Nokia already
[04:09] <Keybuk> there's some inotify glue in there too ... not sure what that's holding
[04:10] <Robot101> it contains their own implementation of asynchronous DNS resolution
[04:10] <jbailey> Kamion: Right, but I'm wondering what that will mean during the transition to userspace.  We may need to have another "settle down" time after we chain to the real root where we stop listening to events, reload the ruls and continue.
[04:10] <jbailey> A bit annoying.
[04:10] <Kamion> mm
[04:10] <Robot101> it'd be better if it didn't have to, but if we make it use libadns it's no longer usable inside a process that contains proprietary code
[04:10] <Diziet|ubz> robot101: So they already reimplemented ?  A bit late for this conversation isn't it ?
[04:10] <Diziet|ubz> robot101: Indeed so.
[04:11] <Kamion> jbailey: will inotify notice the change in rules.d if that change is caused by overmounting the new root? I'm guessing not
[04:11] <Robot101> the decision to release this code came after it was written
[04:11] <Diziet|ubz> (Is their reimplementation bad enough that they want rid of it?)
[04:11] <Keybuk> Robot101: this to me seems to be a feature; Nokia don't want to give us some of their code, why should we go out of our way to give them ours?
[04:11] <Robot101> it wasn't written for Linux in the first place either
[04:11] <pitti> Kamion: I'd just upload a version bump of openssl now, unless you want to merge the package today?
[04:11] <Diziet|ubz> robot101: I think my licence is doing what it's supposed to :-).
[04:11] <Kamion> pitti: please go ahead if you've got it handy
[04:11] <pitti> Kamion: yes, I'm on it
[04:11] <Kamion> thanks
[04:11] <Kamion> I should go round and do the rest
[04:12] <Robot101> Diziet|ubz: I don't. Nokia have given us a large amount of useful code (sofia-sip) which it would be better for us (the free software community) if it would make better use of the stuff we have (libadns) but that would make it less useful for Nokia because of the libadns license.
[04:13] <Diziet|ubz> robot101: You could arrange for it to be able to use adns instead.
[04:13] <Diziet|ubz> I assume the adns interface and the Nokia homegrown thing aren't so different in style that you can't do that sensibly.
[04:14] <pitti> Mez: just uploaded an openssl quickfix; sorry for the delay
[04:14] <Robot101> we don't have time, but NRC realise the importance of integrating with existing code, but they won't spend time on it if it's a seperate codepath they can't necessarily use later in their own stuff.
[04:16] <Robot101> if libadns was LGPL, they would likely do the work and all the free users of sofia would benefit. and there should be a lot of them, because it's a very good library...
[04:16] <Keybuk> make sofia GPL
[04:16] <Keybuk> easy
[04:17] <Robot101> no, nokia still need to be able to use it for themselves.
[04:17] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[04:17] <Keybuk> sounds like they're not playing ball then
[04:17] <Keybuk> so no point getting dressed for the game
[04:17] <Keybuk> free software ain't a one-way street
[04:18] <Robot101> how? they've given the community the most complete SIP implementation in existence, and the only good one that's sensibly licensed (versus stuff like the vovida license or whatever it is)
[04:18] <daniels> holy shit is this ever offtopic for #ubuntu-devel
[04:18] <Robot101> complete free SIP implementation, rather
[04:18] <Keybuk> users can use their LGPL library with the GPL adns?
[04:18] <Keybuk> they're compatible licences
[04:18] <Keybuk> so free software benefit
[04:19] <Keybuk> it just means Nokia can't use adns internally with the stuff they refuse to give us
[04:19] <Keybuk> which seems fine to me
[04:19] <Robot101> s/refuse/aren't able/, nokia's own patents don't cover the internals of the SIP protocol
[04:19] <Mez> pitti: ty
[04:20] <Diziet|ubz> robot101: daniels is right.  If you want to talk to me about money, or even want to try to convince me more, talk to me somewhere else.
[04:20] <Amaranth> Beware the daniels
[04:21] <Robot101> given we don't have the time to make this change, and NRC aren't likely to either, it's totally academic at the moment. 
[04:22] <Keybuk> oh, good
[04:26] <Yagisan> Does Ubuntu have any marketing material I can use to show customers that Ubuntu can be an alternative to Windows ?
[04:27] <HiddenWolf> Yagisan, ask #ubuntu, and check the wiki, there are some presentations and there are doc and marketing teams.
[04:28] <Burgundavia> Yagisan, probably the most developed on the features and benefits is the quicktour
[04:28] <Yagisan> HiddenWolf: Was checking the ubuntu.com site and didn't see obvious marketing material
[04:29] <HiddenWolf> Yagisan, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=marketing&titlesearch=Titles
[04:30] <Yagisan> HiddenWolf, Burgundavia: Thank you, I was looking in the wrong place it seems
[04:30] <pitti> Riddell: what was the name of the "I need root privs" field in .desktop again?
[04:31] <Riddell> pitti: X-KDE-SubstituteUID=true
[04:31] <Riddell> X-KDE-RootOnly=true
[04:32] <pitti> Riddell: so which one?
[04:35] <pitti> Riddell: having two fields does not make too much sense
[04:36] <Riddell> pitti: use the first
[04:36] <ivoks> pitti: ping :)
[04:36] <pitti> Hi ivoks 
[04:36] <ivoks> pitti: i have some errors with ubuntu-devel
[04:36] <ivoks> pitti: but it's MTA related
[04:36] <ivoks> pitti: i allways get two copies of same mail
[04:36] <Riddell> pitti: also X-KDE-Username=foo to set the user id (root is default)
[04:37] <ivoks> pitti: it looks like one mail server doubles it... and sends on same email address
[04:37] <pitti> ivoks: no idea - can you please mail ubuntu-devel-owner?
[04:37] <pitti> ivoks: please check that you aren't subscribed twice
[04:37] <ivoks> pitti: i did, but that's not he's fault
[04:37] <ivoks> pitti: i'm not...
[04:37] <ivoks> pitti: sec, i'll give you more details
[04:38] <pitti> EBUSY
[04:38] <ivoks> ok
[04:42] <ivoks> ups... it was my fault :) sorry for noise
[05:05] <pitti> carstenh: ping
[05:32] <carstenh> pitti: pong
[05:33] <pitti> carstenh: there are some questions in the firewall wiki now (marked with 'XXX')
[05:33] <pitti> carstenh: could you please take a look at them?
[05:33] <carstenh> pitti: sure, not now but in about two hours. i hope that is ok
[05:33] <pitti> yes, that's fine
[05:33] <pitti> thanks
[05:34] <carstenh> you're welcome :)
[05:34] <ajmitch> pitti: have you saved that wiki page?
[05:34] <pitti> ajmitch: "saved"?
[05:34] <carstenh> it is still online
[05:35] <ajmitch> saved changes, since I don't see any changes made?
[05:35] <pitti> hmm?
[05:35] <carstenh> XXX: adi: implies that each pa... that were the last changes
[05:35] <ajmitch> or were you looking at SoC-Firewall?
[05:36] <carstenh> yes
[05:37] <jsgotangco> later
[05:39] <Kinnison> Kamion: ping?
[06:26] <hyperactivecrond> i've got an idea... we should create a version of ubuntu (probably just a livecd) geared for the teen generation... most teens in developed countries either use ms or apple products... 
[06:29] <magnon> what, naked people on the desktop isn't enough?
[06:29] <hyperactivecrond> :P magnon
[06:29] <magnon> and teen girls love gaim
[06:29] <hyperactivecrond> we could possibly by default include gtkpod or amarok *both have ipod support*
[06:30] <dieman> wow
[06:30] <magnon> we could possibly just continue having rhythmbox which also has ipod support :)
[06:30] <dieman> the launchpad login service is sllooooow today
[06:30] <hyperactivecrond> whoops :)
[06:35] <dieman> mdz: for networkwideupdates if you want someone to look over ideas or even perhaps code some stuff let me know
[06:35] <dieman> mdz: what youve got up for a spec now is much closer to what i imagine :)
[06:38] <mdz> dieman: cool, mvo is the point person to talk to on that one
[06:39] <dieman> ahh
[06:40] <dieman> wrong nick :)
[06:40] <dieman> yeah, mis-nicked there.
[06:40] <dieman> sorry about that :)
[06:40] <dieman> ahh, saw your name under registrant
[06:41] <Kamion> Kinnison: yep?
[06:41] <mvo> dieman: in a meeting right now, but I would love to hear more
[06:41] <dieman> ok
[06:42] <dieman> i just thought about 'shoot, i should have gone to ubz' last week
[06:42] <dieman> perhaps next time
[06:42] <dieman> around
[06:42] <dieman> but yes, i'll be around
[07:10] <highvoltage> ogra: (ping timeout) pong
[09:04] <tseng> spayne: how goes the flaiming
[09:04] <spayne> tseng: huh?
[09:04] <spayne> tseng: you mean Flaim?
[09:04] <tseng> yes, I do
[09:04] <spayne> tseng: let me find out
[09:04] <spayne> tseng: apparntly, it had been in the works for a considerable time but it needed this push
[09:05] <spayne> tseng: i doubt anything has happened yet though as they said it could take months
[09:05] <spayne> tseng: but it WILL be done in time for Dapper
[09:05] <tseng> you could port it to sqlite in "months"
[09:05] <spayne> but there is no point now - Flaim works wel
[09:05] <spayne> *well
[09:06] <slomo> what is flaim?
[09:06] <tseng> ok, thanks for the update
[09:06] <spayne> and they were planning on porting it to BDB IRRC
[09:06] <spayne> no bother
[09:06] <spayne> slomo: it is the backend used by most of Novell's products, including iFolder and GroupWise
[09:06] <Mithrandir> berkeleydb is such a pile of shit.
[09:06] <slomo> ah that closed-source thingie
[09:07] <tseng> Mithrandir: good afternoon sunshine
[09:07] <spayne> slomo: not any longer :-)
[09:07] <tseng> spayne: saying it alot doesnt make it true.
[09:07] <spayne> tseng: saying what a lot?
[09:07] <tseng> spayne: i am less then thrilled by the middle man approach
[09:08] <tseng> no one has said anything publically about open sourcing flaim except through you
[09:08] <tseng> who, no offense to yourself, are an easily discredible source
[09:08] <mdke> lol
[09:08] <spayne> it's good to be appricated
[09:09] <Mithrandir> hiya tseng. :-)
[09:09] <tseng> i understand that its not solely their choice to make, but the MiM stuff is tiresome
[09:09] <spayne> tseng: if your tired of the middle man, go into #ifolder on gimpnet and ask yourself
[09:10] <Mithrandir> tseng: we're hopefully going to get rid of bdb anyway, so.  At least most of the dependencies on it.
[09:10] <Simira> tseng: have I met you yet?
[09:10] <tseng> I think I did ask, on the mailing list
[09:10] <tseng> Simira: unfortunately no
[09:10] <tseng> Simira: i met your stuffed firefox
[09:11] <tseng> :D
[09:11] <Simira> tseng?
[09:12] <spayne> tseng: you can not blame me if they do not answer - they are busy guys
[09:12] <tseng> he stowed away with tollef to sydney
[09:12] <spayne> tseng: they rewriting Simias and then Flaim stuff is a hell of a lot
[09:13] <tseng> spayne: i will remain "optimisitcally cautious"
[09:14] <spayne> tseng: sure, what ever
[09:14] <tseng> thanks for keeping the ball rolling
[09:15] <spayne> od
[09:15] <spayne> *nod
[09:27] <Keybuk> seb128: iz gtk bug
[09:27] <Keybuk> metacity needs killing to see new fonts
[09:28] <seb128> Keybuk: iz daniels bog
[09:34] <daniels> q
[09:35] <daniels> seb128: how on earth is it my bug?
[09:35] <daniels> seb128: it's a fontconfig problem
[09:35] <daniels> seb128: that's on your side of the stack.  hth, hand. :)
[09:36] <seb128> daniels: my side of the stack starts by "g", fontconfig does
[09:36] <seb128> doesn't
[09:36] <daniels> mine starts with an X
[09:37] <seb128> who wants the f ?
[09:37] <seb128> let's say it's Keybuk's
[09:37] <daniels> that sounds like a euphemism
[09:37] <tseng> its closer to g than x
[09:37] <daniels> and yes, that fits perfectly
[09:37] <daniels> VOTE [1]  SEB128
[09:37] <seb128> VOTE [2]  KEYBUK
[09:37] <Keybuk> I always want the f
[09:38] <daniels> VOTE [0]  JDUB
[09:38] <Keybuk> and the b
[09:38] <Keybuk> GIVE ME A B
[09:38] <Keybuk> GIVE ME AN O
[09:38] <Mithrandir> b
[09:38] <Mithrandir> o
[09:40] <daniels> GIVE ME A B
[09:40] <daniels> GIVE ME A 2
[09:40] <daniels> booooooooooooooooooooooooooooob2!
[09:40] <dilinger> boob?
[09:40] <Keybuk> yes, give me a bob2
[09:40] <Keybuk> AND A SPADE!
[09:40] <Kinnison> kabooom!
[09:40] <Keybuk> ssssh
[09:40] <Keybuk> he's here
[09:40] <desrt> >:|
[09:40] <Keybuk> :@)
[09:40] <daniels> what the christ is that?
[09:40] <daniels> an emoticon to express your nose being a concentric circle?
[09:40] <tseng> someone hit in te face with a pastry
[09:40] <daniels> MY NOSE TURNED INTO A PORTAL TO THE VOID
[09:40] <daniels> PLS HELP
[09:41] <Mithrandir> ...
[09:41] <desrt> only if a danish is also a portal into the void
[09:41] <daniels> breakfast BRUSH WITH DEATH
[09:42] <Keybuk> desrt: clearly you haven't been to Denmark
[09:42] <desrt> quite.
[09:42] <daniels> denmark is perfectly cromulent
[09:42] <desrt> cromBulent
[09:42] <daniels> except that they drive on the wrong side of the road
[09:42] <daniels> fascists
[09:43] <daniels> KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING
[09:43] <desrt> that appears to be a ridiculous statement
[09:43] <cevizoglu>  I wish my highway said that, except keep right, of course
[09:45] <Keybuk> except you drive on the wrong side of the rode
[09:45] <Keybuk> err... that would be the start of a very funny joke
[09:45] <Keybuk> if I could spell
[09:45] <Keybuk> but I can't
[09:45] <Keybuk> so am gonna stop now
[09:45] <Keybuk> and leave you all guessing to what the punch line was
[09:45] <Mithrandir> you spelt it "gonna" as well.  I get being so close to the US is finally getting at you.  Jelly.
[09:46] <madsen> Kamion: Hey! Was it you with the trick for the volito tablet? (Sorry, I forgot all about it.)
[09:55] <Kamion> madsen: volito tablet?
[09:55] <elmo> subscriptions on wiki.ubuntu.com are back (thanks to spiv)
[09:56] <madsen> Kamion: hehe, apparently not then. :)
[09:57] <madsen> Kamion: Wait, my bad, it was khakionion. :) (Just recalled that the name started with 'ka'.)
[10:01] <madsen> lol! Muse crashed and now there's a beat stuck! It just keeps playing even though I got "[3] +  Segmentation fault      sudo muse". (Probably jackd.)
[10:02] <madsen> Hehe, it was jackd - when killed all stopped and got nice and quiet. :) Kinda weird feeling though... Usually it's the other way around - the program is open, but the sound doesn't work. Hehe.
[10:03] <Keybuk> distrotic ?
[10:03] <madsen> que?
[10:05] <Keybuk> what would be the term for "patriotic", but referring to one's choice of distro
[10:05] <madsen> rofl!
[10:05] <Keybuk> I think we've decided on "distria", ergo "distriotic"
[10:06] <madsen> distriotic sounds nice to me (and I study linguistics, so I'm always right :-p).
[10:06] <Kamion> (dulce et decorum est / pro distria mori.)
[10:07] <daniels> spot the cantabridgian
[10:07] <madsen> Ok, I'm a linguist, but I don't know latin.
[10:07] <Kamion> daniels: I read Wilfred Owen well before university
[10:07] <the--dud> 99% of all latin is wrong anyhow... so I've heard
[10:07] <Kamion> good grief, Ubuntu has corrupted me. I typed 'universeity'.
[10:08] <the--dud> little spelling and grammar stuff
[10:08] <daniels> Kamion: multiverseity?
[10:09] <Keybuk> restrictedity
[10:09] <madsen> the--dud: Ah, I think that's a bit over the top. Much of it has been reconstructed, but much of the grammar comes from sanskrit and is definitely close to the "original", so to speak.
[10:09] <the--dud> yeah, probably
[10:09] <the--dud> I'll stick to Norwegian and English I think
[10:10] <madsen> the--dud: But yeah, I'd find it hard to imagine that Latin had a word for "computer" before 1900. ;)
[10:10] <the--dud> hehe
[10:11] <madsen> the--dud: Latin sucks anyway, pretty much and non-Indo-European language is more fun.
[10:11] <Keybuk> madsen: yeah, those Latinish people stole the word from English!
[10:11] <Keybuk> that mu
[10:11] <Keybuk> that myth about "compute" being latin first is just wrong
[10:12] <madsen> Keybuk: I don't know, they might have had a word for "calculate" or "figure out" - but it definitely didn't apply to the computers of today.
[10:13] <LaserJock> hi azeem
[10:13] <azeem> hi
[10:14] <Mithrandir> well, "computer" isn't the word used in a lot of other languages, like it being "data machine" in norwegian.
[10:14] <LaserJock> azeem: did you see my post to ghemical-devel?
[10:14] <sivang> Mithrandir: in hebrew as well 
[10:15] <madsen> Mithrandir: True, same goes for Finnish "tietokone". Danish uses "computer", but had the word "datamat" back in the late 70'es.
[10:15] <Mithrandir> swedish uses "dator"
[10:16] <madsen> The word "compute" basically means "figure out", so "a computer" is just a nominalization of the verb "compute". It's very common.
[10:16] <madsen> Just like "a farmer" is someone who farms.
[10:17] <azeem> LaserJock: yeah, though for some reason I did not connect your name to your nick until five minutes ago
[10:17] <LaserJock> azeem: Sorry, I should have said something
[11:23] <lamont> cc1: error: invalid option 'tune=hppa'
[11:24] <lamont> wth??
[11:41] <pitti> mdz: do we care about hoary->dapper upgrades?
[11:41] <pitti> mdz: I'm just cleaning up the postgresql seeds a bit, and I wonder whether I should keep the transitional postgresql pakcage
[11:44] <tfheen> pitti: not really.
[11:44] <ompaul> pitti, if you don't your users will love you - in particular those who think that once a year is enough for upgrading their web server 
[11:45] <pitti> ompaul, mdz: it's just that this transitional package keeps postgresql 7.4 in main, which we don't want for dapper
[11:46] <ompaul> pitti, I am going to love you with dapper then :-) 
[11:46] <pitti> ompaul: we only need this transitional package once ever - all further deprecations will be handled much more gracefully
[11:47] <ompaul> pitti, in that case I would say kill it early if you leave it around too long it will be expected in by some future generation, but hey your the man
[11:48] <pitti> ompaul: right, that's why I'm asking - on UBZ we agreed to a major cleanup of main to be able to support dapper
[11:49] <ompaul> pitti, from that perspective people the person with the one year attitude or longer would be happier to have longer term future proofing 
[11:49] <ompaul> s/people//
[11:50] <pitti> ompaul: the current architecture copes with all that, but at some point we just have to deprecate the old packages
[11:50] <ompaul> yeap
[11:50] <pitti> ompaul: and I doubt that 7.4 will be supported from upstream for 5 years
[11:50] <ompaul> I would agree with that
[11:50] <pitti> support for 7.1 has ceased a while ago
[11:51] <ompaul> they are on 8.1rc
[11:51] <ompaul> with 8.0 stable
[11:51] <pitti> right, and I will put 8.1 into dapper probably
[11:52] <pitti> 8.1 will likely be released next week
[11:52] <ompaul> thats nice
[11:53] <zyga> hello
[11:54] <robertj^> are the priorities on launchpad priorities for review or actual assigned prioriteis
[11:55] <jdong> so guys, any plans of FF 1.5rc1 in Dapper?
[11:56] <jdong> [NO, I'm not gonna backport unstable packages.... just want to run it personally] 
[11:56] <Kamion> robertj^: both
[11:56] <Kamion> jdong: yes, I believe Diziet's been working on the huge merge job for some time
[11:56] <jdong> Kamion: thanks... I imagine it's a huge merge job
[11:57] <Kamion> yes, and there wasn't all that much time between breezy release and the start of UBZ