[12:10] <robertj^> what's the story on Breezy Backports?
[12:11] <mdke> it's in sources.list and the documentation but the archive hasn't been created afaik
[12:14] <robertj^> come to think of it, where is the official backports info?
[12:16] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports ?
[12:16] <mdke> that's a bit old
[12:22] <mdz> ogra: thin-client-memory-usage reviewed
[12:26] <HWolf> I thought all proper geeks where neuters. 
[12:27] <zyga> HWolf: maybe you should have said Hwolfs dappers
[12:27] <mpt> HWolf, http://bbspot.com/News/2000/9/linux_laid.html
[12:28] <HWolf> mpt, LMAO
[12:29] <HWolf> Nobody got nothing. that's a double negative.
[12:29] <HWolf> That means everybody got some. ;)
[12:29] <Lord_Maynoth> I know you can autodetect your windows partitions in breezy by downloading a script, but will dapper drake automatically do this without the need to download a script?
[12:29] <ogra> mdz, thanks, will fix
[12:32] <Lord_Maynoth> just curious
[12:52] <robertj^> Does anyone else here hate the map method of selecting location?
[12:53] <cevizoglu> robertj^, no, I much prefer it to anything else out there, like the crappy drop-down menus with 200 items
[12:53] <cevizoglu> robertj^, actually, I take that back.  having it autodetect is nicer
[12:53] <robertj^> Select your country followed by timezone if nececerry would be nice
[12:54] <robertj^> or if the map highlighted based on country/timezone
[12:54] <robertj^> but I'm not anywhere near NY
[12:54] <cevizoglu> I'm not anywhere near los angeles, but I know it's the same time zone  :)
[12:55] <robertj^> I am however near the city that hosted the Olympics in '96, so it's not entirely in the middle of nowhere
[12:56] <robertj^> OS X is the only oS that actually seems to have Atlanta listed but it's nearly impossible to click on
[01:00] <robertj^> btw, Wikipedia says Atlanta is the 41st largest city in the world
[01:02] <robertj^> of course you could be overly clever and set timezone after boot...
[01:02] <LaserJock> robertj^: for what it's worth I agree. I don't see why you can't pick a timezone
[01:02] <robertj^> err after install
[01:03] <cevizoglu> robertj^, well, San Diego used to be fifth but I haven't seen **any** installers list it
[01:03] <robertj^> cev, laserjock: hehe, will you undersign if I put a note on the wiki ;)
[01:07] <LaserJock> yeah, it's kinda funny but I hate having to click on LA every time I want to set the timezone
[01:14] <robertj^> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/GnomeUserInterface#preview
[01:25] <mvo> dieman: still around?
[01:25] <mvo> dieman: sorry, I was too busy until now
[01:27] <Kamion> cevizoglu: installers generally don't offer cities that don't have a distinct timezone; it just confuses
[01:27] <Kamion> robertj^: ubuntu[macaddress]  is a really dreadful hostname I think; ubuntu would be just fine on desktops if we can't do better
[01:28] <Kamion> if the hostname doesn't matter much (which it doesn't if it isn't in sync with DNS), no reason to pick something ugly :)
[01:29] <Kamion> robertj^: country boundaries aren't an option because you can get put in jail for that :) I think evolution's timezone widget is fairly tolerant of clicking nearby
[01:29] <Kamion> unfortunately clocks aren't reliable enough to do the NTP server thing, really; I have a bug open about that, but it's just too sucky in practice :(
[01:31] <robertj^> Kamion: does the location actually get stored anywhere?
[01:32] <robertj^> Kamion: problem for me is that nearby is near a timezone border
[01:32] <cevizoglu> oh, why did I waste time asking about firefox 1.5 on here?  I downloaded it on breezy, it runs fine
[01:33] <Kamion> robertj^: yeah, but the one I've seen highlights the city that you'd be clicking on
[01:33] <robertj^> Kamion: does the city name get stored anywhere?
[01:33] <Kamion> robertj^: yes, it goes in /etc/timezone
[01:34] <Kamion> glibc timezones for some countries are named after cities
[01:34] <Kamion> depends on the country
[01:34] <robertj^> mine just says US/Eastern
[01:35] <robertj^> Could we just highlight the whole timezone on the map?
[01:35] <Kamion> there's also America/<blah>
[01:35] <Kamion> no idea, that's up to the GNOME UI guys :)
[01:36] <Kamion> I'm sure it's possible to select and offer only the "most recommended" timezones; tzsetup post-breezy has logic for that
[01:37] <robertj^> Kamion: does anyone not know a standard name for their timezone
[01:37] <Kamion> robertj^: er, yeah, most naive users won't
[01:37] <robertj^> Is that a cultural thing?
[01:37] <Kamion> no
[01:38] <robertj^> Just a stupid thing eh?
[01:38] <cevizoglu> robertj^, no, it's an unedumucation thing
[01:38] <Kamion> no, it's not stupid either
[01:38] <dredg> or you're on a laptop and you go to another country and don't know the standard name for the timezone
[01:38] <robertj^> Kamion: I say its up there with forgetting your zipcode (which I did once)
[01:38] <tfheen> robertj^: I'd guess most car owners don't care about the number of cylinders in their car either.
[01:38] <Kamion> why should ordinary people care that their timezone name is "US/Eastern"? Some people might say "Eastern", some "New York", some "EST" - I doubt anyone will answer "US/Eastern"
[01:38] <Kamion> robertj^: well I'm afraid you're being very US-centric
[01:39] <robertj^> Kamion: well its an important piece of information
[01:39] <robertj^> like not knowing what country your from
[01:39] <Kamion> the US timezone names in glibc are more closely related to what people know than the ones for other countries
[01:39] <HrdwrBoB> robertj^: not really
[01:39] <dredg> or not knowing the difference between "your" and "you're"
[01:39] <Kamion> robertj^: there's a difference between knowing what timezone you're in, and knowing what the glibc name for it is
[01:39] <HrdwrBoB> timezones are a high level concept most people don't understand 
[01:40] <mjg59> Given network connectivity, it's trivial to work out the timezone based on what the user claims local time is
[01:40] <HrdwrBoB> most people aren't aware of things more than 1m away from them
[01:40] <HrdwrBoB> let alone the rest of the world
[01:40] <Kamion> mjg59: I think it's easier to ask the user to point at a map than to get them to enter local time
[01:40] <Kamion> this is not about stupidity or provinciality
[01:41] <Kamion> this is about timezone names not always being obviously related to what people know
[01:41] <robertj^> if they aren't on the network, and their local time is right, does it really matter if their timezone is set...
[01:41] <dredg> robertj^: in Ireland, summertime is called IST. guess 1) how many people in Ireland know that it's called IST and 2)how many other places on the planet use the abbreviation 'IST'
[01:42] <robertj^> I just thought everyone used GTM +/-
[01:42] <HrdwrBoB> dredg: australia has 'EST' same as the US
[01:42] <tfheen> dredg: Iceland Standard Time, Indian Standard Time? .-)
[01:42] <dredg> tfheen: you win... a lollipop
[01:42] <mjg59> robertj^: Uhm. No.
[01:43] <dredg> tfheen: there could be more for all i know (or care) though
[01:43] <tfheen> yup
[01:44] <daniels> HrdwrBoB: though it totally should be AEST
[01:44] <HrdwrBoB> daniels: yeah
[01:44] <HrdwrBoB> I'm with you on that one
[01:44] <daniels> it's just glibc being obstinate and stupid
[01:44] <tfheen> American East Standard Time?
[01:44] <HrdwrBoB> tfheen: that's 'EST'
[01:44] <daniels> princess: AEST -> Australian Eastern Standard Time
[01:44] <HrdwrBoB> because apparently america is the center of the universe
[01:44] <HrdwrBoB> ;)
[01:45] <cevizoglu> HrdwrBoB, really?  amazing  :)
[01:45] <robertj^> err not GMT but UTC btw
[01:46] <dredg> looks like a sentence made entirely of TLAs
[01:47] <cevizoglu> HrdwrBoB, but the greenwich meridian isn't in the US  :)
[01:47] <cevizoglu> HrdwrBoB, so UK shares part of center-of-the-universism
[01:48] <robertj^> Ok, but suppose average Joe doesn't know his timezone.  Does avarage Joe know what major city is also in his timezone?
[01:49] <dredg> no, but they know roughly where they are on a map.
[01:49] <cevizoglu> after running enough operating system installs, eventually it dawns on them  :)
[01:49] <robertj^> dredg: do they?
[01:49] <Kamion> I think you need to do user testing on this rather than making assertions
[01:49] <cevizoglu> unless they're right on the border of two times zones, in which case they are more likely to know they are on the border...
[01:50] <Kamion> make mockups with alternatives, experiment
[01:50] <cevizoglu> but also more likely to choose the wrong timezone
[01:50] <robertj^> Kamion: the problem with that is that flying out to the middle of nowhere and giving people who have never seen a computer before maps is rather expensive
[01:51] <dredg> hmm. i ponder a mail to everyone in the company asking if they know off the top of their head where they are and what timezone they are in
[01:51] <robertj^> and I'm not saying that should be your target
[01:53] <cevizoglu> dredg, that would make for good water-cooler conversation
[01:53] <Kamion> robertj^: it doesn't have to be the middle of nowhere, and having prepared the test you can ask others on the net to help you
[01:54] <robertj^> cervizoglu: take a map, center it on South Africa and give it to non college-prep kids in the US
[01:54] <robertj^> cervizoglu: I think you would be 50/50 amused/dismayed
[01:56] <robertj^> There are people here who will identify the middle-east as being in Central America
[01:56] <cevizoglu> robertj^, in high-school US I think the curriculum is for capitals of the US, but not of the world.. I could be wrong
[01:56] <robertj^> cevizoglu: most certainly not, I went to a good high-school and was in the better classes
[01:56] <dredg> cevizoglu: it could get some interesting results, and would help establish whether several thousand people know where they are in the world
[01:57] <robertj^> but curriculum is state-by-state and county-by-county for the most part
[01:57] <Kamion> dholbach: FYI I'm going to skip approving inclusion-of-docs until we've had the dapper release schedule BOF
[01:57] <cevizoglu> robertj^, I don't remember anymore, it's been so long  :)
[01:57] <robertj^> but there is a popular show here that takes people off the street and asks them what we should do with the middle east and then asks them to place points on the map where the bombs should go
[01:58] <robertj^> cev: noone cares about state capitals in the US, I don't know most of them probably
[01:58] <robertj^> they don't mean much unless you live in that state because they often are not that important
[01:59] <cevizoglu> robertj^, depends on what career you go into and how much traveling you do
[02:00] <robertj^> cev: yes, if you go into geography you better know them!
[02:01] <robertj^> but seriously, it's really not that important for the smaller states like South Dakota
[02:02] <dholbach> Kamion: right
[02:06] <dieman> mpt: np
[02:06] <dieman> ack
[02:06] <dieman> mpt: misfire
[02:06] <dieman> mvo: around now
[02:06] <dieman> will just be messing with my mythtv box for a bit
[03:22] <bytee_> so, anyone about, that does ppc goodness?
[03:40] <radix> anyone know what's going on with the zope and plone packages in breezy? a lot of the plone-related ones are installing stuff like "CMFCore:1.5", which doesn't seem to work at all
[04:18] <tsume> eww :(
[04:41] <bob2> yay for firefox losing all my history again
[05:47] <Lord_Maynoth> Will Dapper automatically configure and mount your windows partitions without having to download and run a script (like in breezy)???
[05:49] <LaserJock> Lord_Maynoth: have you tried the mailing list? or looked at the wiki? a lot of stuff is being worked out at UBZ right now
[05:49] <Lord_Maynoth> I haven't seen anything about it yet
[05:51] <minghua> I remember seeing something about this in UBZ proposal page
[05:54] <Lord_Maynoth> where can i find that
[09:04] <zyga> morning
[09:57] <micampe> hello
[09:57] <micampe> where can I find the mount options for usb devices? I want to remove the 'noexec' flag
[09:58] <zyga> micampe: this question should be asked in #ubuntu
[09:58] <micampe> hm sorry
[10:16] <hunger> When will UBZ be over again?
[12:36] <pef> hello
[12:38] <highvoltage> hi pef 
[12:50] <HiddenWolf> why is libasound installed on a server, or even alsa? :)
[01:38] <pef> elmo: hello, can I just know if my email address is whitelisted for upload to archive ? (universe)
[01:38] <pef> (loic at dev dot erodia dot net)
[01:51] <slomo_> pef: do you want something uploaded? i can do it for you until you can do it yourself
[02:38] <mindwarp> .
[02:41] <Kamion> pef_aw: yes, you're on the whitelist
[02:43] <zakame> hello all
[03:08] <enrico> Hello.  Who's the GCC guy now?
[03:08] <Mithrandir> enrico: doko
[03:08] <enrico> Mithrandir: thanks
[03:12] <Simira> enrico :)
[03:12] <enrico> Simira: hi!
[03:32] <jordi> Keybuk: ping
[03:34] <jordi> mvo: do you know if, having bind installed (with conffiles in /etc) and doing apt-get install bind9, do you get the etc files replaced, or are they preserved?
[03:34] <jordi> if they have the same name
[03:34] <mvo> jordi: are they modified by you?
[03:35] <jordi> yeah. Some, at least.
[03:35] <jordi> what I'm asking basically if it'll replace my named.conf silently without asking me :)
[03:35] <mvo> jordi: than the you will probably get some conffile changed questions and end with ".dpkg-old" files in /etc
[03:36] <Mithrandir> jordi: they shouldn't be replaced without you confirming to have them replaced.
[03:36] <mvo> jordi: no, it really shouldn't. unless it's not a conffile (but I strongly doubt that)
[03:36] <jordi> ok
[03:42] <Lathiat> heh someone just commented on bug 1 as "Bill Gates" "As far as I am concerned this bug works as expected, it should be considered a feature"
[03:45] <zakame> Lathiat: on malone?
[03:45] <Lathiat> zakame: yeh
[03:45] <Lathiat> http://launchpad.net/malone/+bug/1 i think
[03:45] <Lathiat> nope
[03:46] <zakame> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1
[03:46] <Lathiat> Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance in five minutes. duh dah
[03:47] <Keybuk> jordi: 'sup?
[04:07] <HiddenWolf> got it, ik geef je half 8 ofzo wel een belletje om te zien of je nog in de buurt bent. :)
[04:08] <seb128> HiddenWolf: ELANGUAGE
[04:08] <HiddenWolf> whoops
[04:08] <HiddenWolf> seb128, was supposed to be a /msg
[04:08] <Lathiat> seb128: wheres your -
[04:08] <seb128> hehe
[04:08] <HiddenWolf> Seveas, ^^
[04:09] <seb128> Lathiat: my "-"?
[04:09] <Lathiat> so whos pimpppinnn avahi :)
[04:09] <Lathiat> seb128: -ELANGUAGE :)
[04:09] <seb128> oh
[04:09] <seb128> Lathiat: dunno, the assignee is not here :p
[04:09] <Wo|f> clear
[04:09] <Wo|f> whoops
[04:09] <Wo|f> heh
[04:10] <Lathiat> "honey, whats that weird #ubuntu channel.. what are you talking about in there.."
[04:10] <Wo|f> Just wanted to thank the Ubuntu developers. Someone in #ubuntu said this would be the place.
[04:11] <Wo|f> It's working so well on this laptop. Even the Winmodem works! ^_^
[04:11] <Wo|f> So nicely done, you guys rock
[04:11] <Wo|f> Have a good one!
[04:12] <Lathiat> heh sdf.lonestar.org
[04:12] <ogra> Lathiat, hopefuly nobody actively today, zeroconf shuts down the whole wlan if you start it, it seems
[04:12] <Lathiat> ogra: zeroconf has nothign to do with avahi :)
[04:13] <Lathiat> mumble :)
[04:13] <Lathiat> i poked anand about that
[04:13] <Lathiat> apparently network-manager assigns ipv4-ll addresses now
[04:13] <Lathiat> altho i havent seen it
[04:17] <seb128> Lathiat: so what is this zeroconf bof about?
[04:17] <Lathiat> seb128: zeroconf (the program) assigns 169.254.0.0/16 ipv4 link local addresses
[04:17] <Lathiat> seb128: designed to be used when you dont have a real ip via dhcp ro static config
[04:17] <Lathiat> to allow communication
[04:18] <Lathiat> 'zeroconf' as a whole encompasses many things, including this, and avahi, and others
[04:18] <Lathiat> obviously if zeroconf the program is to be included it needs to be looked at :)
[04:19] <seb128> I don't think it's going to be shipped
[04:19] <Burgundavia> seb128, are you talking about the prorgram or the idea?
[04:19] <seb128> the program
[04:19] <mjg59> When I installed zeroconf, I got a *lot* of DNS lookups coming from my zeroconfed address
[04:20] <Lathiat> weird
[04:20] <Lathiat> zeroconf only does ARP
[04:20] <Lathiat> it has the potential to do lots of arps
[04:20] <Lathiat> if it has a bug
[04:20] <Lathiat> which lookign at the code it doesnt try hard to prevent
[04:21] <Lathiat> seems to rely on the poll() timeout to co-ordinate everything
[04:21] <mjg59> I'm guessing that it was something else that was causing it
[04:21] <Lathiat> as far as i can see
[04:21] <mjg59> Possibly networkmanager getting confused
[04:21] <Lathiat> i'll have to fiddle
[04:22] <Lathiat> i havent seen it myself yet
[04:33] <seb128> Lathiat: do you want to join the gobby session for Zeroconf?
[04:34] <Lathiat> seb128: hrm
[04:34] <Lathiat> seb128: how do i do that?
[04:35] <seb128> Lathiat: apt-get install gooby
[04:35] <Burgundavia> gobby
[04:35] <seb128> yeah
[04:35] <seb128> Lathiat: 10.208.231.160 
[04:35] <Lathiat> seb128: yeh that ip is entirely un-routable :)
[04:36] <seb128> Lathiat: ups, we should use the wrong network for that, sorry
[04:37] <Lathiat> seb128: give me remote port forward love? :)
[04:38] <seb128> Lathiat: sorry, but we have like 40 min for the BOF, I don't want to spend 10 min to get gobby working now
[04:38] <Lathiat> heh ok
[04:39] <Lathiat> have fun :P)
[04:39] <Lathiat> err, s/P//
[04:47] <hub> Lathiat: what are your plans for CUPS?
[04:47] <hub> Lathiat: because I had done that for my job, so I can redo it the right way
[04:47] <Lathiat> hub: well i have none yet
[04:48] <Lathiat> hub: someone...
[04:48] <Lathiat> hub: you? :)
[04:48] <Lathiat> hub: mentioned you wanted to do that
[04:48] <hub> Lathiat: including the mdns: backend
[04:48] <hub> and the notification
[04:48] <hub> I looked at the Apple coude
[04:48] <hub> s/coude/code/
[04:48] <hub> I haven't started but I have the design
[04:48] <hub> in mind
[04:50] <Lathiat> hub: go for it :)
[05:52] <zyga> jbailey: ping
[05:55] <jbailey> zyga: Pong.
[05:56] <zyga> jbailey: do you maintain glibc?
[05:57] <jbailey> zyga: For some values of maintain, for some values of glibc. =)
[05:58] <jordi> zyga: DUDE
[05:58] <jordi> zyga: we're talking about you man
[05:59] <zyga> jbailey: I need to talk to someone who could help me with replacing current malloc with my experimental stuff 
[05:59] <zyga> jordi: hi :)
[05:59] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[05:59] <jordi> zyga: have you tested how big the performance hit is for your gettext-based desktop solution?
[06:00] <zyga> pitti: hi
[06:00] <jbailey> zyga: Just define malloc in a private library and use it.  ELF will take care of everything else for you.
[06:00] <zyga> jordi: not yet (I was busy writing grad projecT)
[06:00] <zyga> but I've got a solution
[06:00] <zyga> jbailey: and LD_PRELOAD it?
[06:00] <jordi> zyga: we're discussing the issue right now at ubz and if the performance isn't horrible, it's the way to go
[06:00] <pitti> zyga: I saw your patch, that looks pretty nice
[06:00] <jordi> (without caching daemon or whatever)
[06:00] <zyga> jordi, pitti: the solution in a few words: 
[06:00] <pitti> I already saw the g-d changes
[06:01] <zyga> on boot unpack a .tar.gz with .desktop files to some /var/cache mounted as ramdisk/tmpfs
[06:01] <zyga> do the same with default locale .mo files 
[06:01] <pitti> zyga: erm
[06:01] <pitti> zyga: our backup solution is to create a language-packs-desktop package
[06:01] <pitti> zyga: which ships all desktop/server/etc. files with updated translations
[06:02] <pitti> zyga: sth like that?
[06:02] <zyga> pitti: will they overwrite existing .desktop files?
[06:02] <pitti> no
[06:02] <pitti> it will ship them in a parallel hierarchy
[06:02] <jordi> zyga: I don't understand what that would do. Can you explain more?
[06:02] <jbailey> zyga: You can LD_PRELOAD it or just link it in.
[06:02] <zyga> okay, so another preference system
[06:02] <pitti> /usr/share/applicatinons-langpakcs
[06:02] <zyga> jordi: the issue is: stating/opening lots of files
[06:02] <jordi> zyga: yup-
[06:02] <pitti> we are aware of that
[06:03] <zyga> well stat and open are expansive only on real fs, not on ram fs
[06:03] <jbailey> zyga: A linked in malloc should override the weak symbols in the library.
[06:03] <zyga> if we can just open and extract one .tar.gz to a ramdisk that will remove the issue?
[06:03] <jordi> jbailey: zyga is ours, go away. :)
[06:03] <zyga> jbailey: any way to know for sure which symbols apart the obvious I need to provide
[06:03] <zyga> jbailey: and how to do init fini properly?
[06:04] <zyga> jordi, pitti: another way to solve the issue is to pack all the translations into special domain
[06:04] <pitti> zyga: AFAICS this would not be entirely different to shipping a package with all desktop files
[06:04] <zyga> that will just make one .mo file, slighlty harder to build
[06:04] <pitti> but with less hacking
[06:04] <pitti> zyga: ok, let's do some actual benchmarking first
[06:05] <jordi> zyga: I had thought of that. You mean, to have tiny .mo files with just two or 3 strings?
[06:05] <Kinnison> ciao all
[06:05] <pitti> maybe we discuss about improvements we don#t even need
[06:05] <pitti> bye Kinnison 
[06:05] <zyga> jordi: no, big .mo file with all the strings for all .desktop files
[06:05] <carlos> zyga, zyga that will not work there are msgid that have more than one translation
[06:05] <carlos> zyga, and I guess the same would happen with .desktop files
[06:05] <jordi> oh. can you havea mofile with many translations?
[06:05] <pitti> and besides, you need to update that whenever *any* app desktop file changes
[06:05] <zyga> carlos: we can build a prefix system that will resolve that I guess
[06:06] <pitti> CRAAACK
[06:06] <zyga> jordi: no, one .mo file per language, just pack all the strings together to solve fs inefficency
[06:06] <carlos> zyga, dude, let your brain rest a bit, first we should check how bad is the performance
[06:06] <zyga> carlos: right
[06:06] <carlos> and then look for a good solution
[06:06] <zyga> I'll test that tomorrow morning
[06:07] <pitti> that'll be great
[06:07] <zyga> right now there is the kubuntu issue, someone needs to patch that too
[06:07] <jordi> zyga: still don't see how, but anyway
[06:07] <jordi> zyga: yup. jr knows
[06:07] <zyga> jordi: take about 3 strings from each .desktop file (per language) and put them into one .mo file
[06:07] <koke> atm, which is the winner solution?
[06:07] <zyga> guys
[06:07] <zyga> one more idea
[06:08] <zyga> since upstream was worried about a gettext dependency
[06:08] <jordi> how do you put multiple msgstrs for a single msgid in a mo file? never tried to do that
[06:08] <zyga> we could make a semi-gettext system with similar api but one that is optimized for our case
[06:08] <jordi> zyga: woa dude
[06:08] <zyga> jordi: prefix them
[06:09] <jordi> in Spain we say that's how you kill a fly with cannons
[06:09] <jordi> zyga: ah, with prefixes, ok.
[06:10] <zyga> anyway that's all from me
[06:10] <zyga> jbailey: .
[06:10] <zyga> jbailey: you did not answer the last question, how to check which symbols are malloc essential (apart from the obvious ones)
[06:10] <jordi> zyga: ok. We need to find out how bad it's ust reading the normal mo files.
[06:10] <jordi> Unfortunately I expect the performance hit to be noticeable.
[06:10] <Kamion> jordi: "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut" is one of the similar English idioms
[06:10] <jordi> Kamion: aha :)
[06:11] <zyga> jordi: I'll exploit the preload bit in the boot stage
[06:11] <zyga> cat'ing various files should help
[06:11] <zyga> can anyone give me a hint on how to patch multiple .desktop files to add a good domain name easily?
[06:12] <jordi> hmm, sed?
[06:13] <seb128> Lathiat, ajmitch, desrt, Burgundavia: I've dropped my notes to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZeroConfSpec, there is probably some cleanup, points to details and stuff. Feel free to comment, fix stuff, etc .. thanks :)
[06:14] <jordi> SEB
[06:14] <spayne|laptop> evenging all
[06:15] <Riddell> seb128: usefull -> useful
[06:15] <Riddell> seb128: "SebastienBacher has already made a wiki page about this" should link to the wiki page
[06:15] <jordi> Riddell: aaply them yourself :)
[06:17] <Riddell> busy, lazy, don't want to conflic with others, etc
[06:18] <seb128> Riddell: thanks
[06:19] <jordi> seb128: see, the K guys slack mor ethan me
[06:19] <seb128> yeah
[06:19] <sebest_> seb128: about this: #
[06:19] <sebest_> Ask Trent to add option to avahi to start/stop listening on a particular interface (so that we don't have to start/kill the daemon whenever we change the option or bring an interface up/down).
[06:19] <sebest_> #
[06:19] <seb128> which is not easy to do
[06:19] <jordi> ha
[06:19] <sebest_> you don't need to restart the deamon when an iface appear or disappear
[06:19] <sebest_> avahi-daemon use netlink to detect this on the fly
[06:19] <seb128> I didn't wrote this
[06:20] <seb128> but as said, feel free to fix the wiki
[06:20] <seb128> I don't know a lot about avahi, I just got assigned as a drafter
[06:20] <sebest_> i'd like to have the opinion of the writer before modifying it
[06:21] <jdub> sebest_: that was mostly about turning it on or off, rather than reacting to interface changes
[06:21] <hunger> How do I write a spec in the first place? Or better: what do I do once I have written up something on my box. Put it in the wiki? What then?
[06:22] <Riddell> hunger: your box?
[06:22] <Riddell> hunger: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addspec
[06:22] <hunger> Riddell: I copied the template to my computer and edited it here.
[06:22] <hunger> Riddell: No net at work:-(
[06:23] <Riddell> hunger: ah.  add it thourgh launchpad there and put it on a wiki page
[06:24] <sebest_> jdub: what about controlling the MULTICAST flag on the iface?
[06:25] <sebest_> if the iface doesn't this flag avahi-daemon will start but do nothing, and it will start working as soon as you add this flag to the iface
[06:27] <jordi> oh man
[06:27] <jordi> I'm late for my break
[06:27] <carlos> jordi, you don't have anything for the next session...
[06:29] <jordi> which probably means drafting an advocacy proposal.
[06:31] <jbailey> zyga: I'm working at the moment, so replying quite slowly.
[06:32] <carstenh> hi jeff :)
[06:32] <carstenh> pitti: ping
[06:32] <pitti> Hi carstenh 
[06:41] <pef> when a package may need a lot of external dev packages to be fully fonctionnal (like music softwares, rosegarden, ardour, ressound, ...) how can I know what to put in Build-Depends and what not put in ? make a package foo with minimal deps, and others like foo-alsa, foo-featureX, etc ?
[06:43] <slomo> pef: you decide ;) make the package usable for most users and if the package allows it split of binary packages for additional features
[06:44] <pef> slomo: because a friend of mine complaine he has to rebuild packages from source to have all features he wants
[06:44] <pef> s/complaine/complains/
[06:45] <slomo> pef: the he should tell the maintainer about it and maybe this features can be added or provided by additional packages (what is the package you are talking about and which features?)
[06:48] <pef> slomo: haven't the list here, but I remember rosegarden with DSSI support
[06:50] <slomo> pef: hmm... whatever DSSI is... can this be added easily? ;)
[06:51] <pef> slomo: haven't investigate yet, just curious how to handle problems like that, so multiples binary packages is a solution ?
[06:52] <slomo> pef: yes... or in the same package when it doesn't pull in too many/too big dependencies or is wanted by almost all users ;)
[06:53] <pef> slomo: ok I see, thank you :) 
[06:54] <Mez> hmm
[06:55] <slomo> pef: but that's only my oppinion... don't take it as a general rule ;)
[06:56] <pef> slomo: I though similar :)
[07:00] <zyga> jbailey: sure, just reply on priv so it does not get lost
[07:00] <pef> slomo: my friend's job is working on music, so I think he can help me with any music related package. If foo-1.2 is in the archive, I build for him (to test with all features enable for example) foo-1.2+1, when foo-1.3 will be available in the archive, does the upgrade will be done cleanly ? 
[07:17] <mpt> Kamion, when Ubuntu Express is running not on x86, what language does it default to, and why?
[08:23] <Kamion> mpt: if the user has selected a language in the language selector, then we use that
[08:24] <Kamion> mpt: otherwise, if we have no better default, our general fallback is English
[08:34] <mpt> thanks Kamion 
[08:45] <pef> bye !
[09:06] <dholbach> UBU
[11:45] <Pygi> Hello people :)
[11:45] <Pygi> Anyone actually here? :)
[11:46] <Mez> we're all busy
[11:46] <Mez> leave us alone
[11:46] <Pygi> ok, sorry =P
[11:46] <Simira> Pygi: we're all hard working, yes :)
[11:46] <Pygi> ah, I just wanted to show you one project
[11:47] <Pygi> but nevermind :P
[11:48] <Simira> Pygi: what about?
[11:49] <Pygi> Ubuntu installer
[11:49] <Pygi> graphical one :)
[11:49] <lazyilmaz> hi all
[11:49] <Simira> Pygi: have you looked at the latest specs? ping Kamion about that project, we've just been revewing the cd bootloader, actually.
[11:50] <Pygi> ah, I am working on a separate project...
[11:50] <Simira> for what?
[11:50] <Pygi> www.sourceforge.net/projects/crowly
[11:50] <Simira> a new installer?
[11:50] <Pygi> yup
[11:54] <minghua> Pygi: a project with no code, no documentation, not even a home page?
[11:54] <Pygi> actually it has code, but it's not released :)
[11:54] <Mithrandir> Pygi: you might want to look at ubuntuexpress, which is the project to make a graphical installer
[11:54] <Simira> Pygi: so, what do you want us to look at, then?
[11:54] <Pygi> ah, nothing, I was just saying that I am making it, anyway :/
[11:55] <chmj> eheh 
[11:55] <Pygi> I know mithrandir, I looked at current specs, and don't like them :/
[11:55] <Simira> oh, that's why you gave us the link ;)
[11:55] <Pygi> what a conclusion :P
[11:55] <Pygi> good one :)
[11:56] <Simira> Pygi: would be nice to have a look at it, though. Not that I could do anything with it... translate it, maybe, but thats not really first thing up.
[11:56] <Pygi> ah :P
[11:57] <Kamion> Pygi: one of the major focuses of ubuntu-express is reusing as much code as possible from d-i
[11:57] <Pygi> kamion: yes, I know...
[11:57] <Kamion> so I'm afraid a new from-scratch installer is only of interest for UI ideas that we might be able to reuse
[11:57] <Pygi> Several people tried to convince me to join the UbuntuExpress project but...
[11:58] <Kamion> we will likely be basing our work on the Guadalinex installer, which has got a substantial distance and has roughly the right structure, even though a lot of bits need to be changed
[11:58] <Pygi> ah :/
[11:58] <Kamion> what don't you like about the current specs?
[11:58] <Kamion> (I'm the drafter of most of them and have had a lot of input)
[11:59] <SEJeff> Since upgrading to dapper, my ipod stopped being recognized by gnome or rhythmbox. What information do I need to file a useful bug report?
[12:00] <Pygi> I don't say that UbuntuExpress is bad, it'll be a good thing :)
[12:00] <Pygi> Just not something I like :P
[12:01] <Pygi> I got really a quite good designer to work along me...
[12:01] <Pygi> so it should look nice too :P
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> SEJeff, #ubuntu, and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevice