[12:19] <\sh> Tm_T: no...there are no maintainers in ubuntu
[12:20] <\sh> Tm_T: but i'm working on it...as well as riddell
[12:20] <Tm_T> ok
[12:20] <Tm_T> you know 1.3.6 will be released soon?
[12:21] <Tm_T> 00:49 < eean> s|mon: be sure to update to 1.3.6 when it gets released this weekend or else you'll have problems again
[01:15] <\sh> i need a screenshot of the k backtrace dialog....
[01:15] <Lathiat> i can do that
[01:16] <Lathiat> give me a few hours ims ure amarok will die by then ;)
[01:16] <\sh> no...I need it now...
[01:18] <Drakeson> why not use akregator in 3.5b2 ? it dies instantly
[01:18] <Drakeson> ;)
[01:18] <Lathiat> let me try something
[01:19] <\sh> Riddell: do we have somewhere screenshots?
[01:19] <Tm_T> =)
[01:19] <Lathiat> trust things not to crash when i want them to ;)
[01:19] <Tm_T> Lathiat: artsd in beta2
[01:20] <Riddell> \sh: run drkonqi and ksnapshot
[01:21] <Lathiat> Riddell: ahh
[01:22] <Tm_T> :)
[01:22] <\sh> Riddell: i need the dialog as well of the mail interface to the backtraces
[01:22] <Tm_T> Riddell: I bet you know how to disable that automount&autorun thingie
[01:23] <Riddell> Tm_T: killal ivman
[01:23] <Tm_T> :o
[01:23] <Lathiat> \sh: pass --pid
[01:23] <Riddell> \sh: there is no mail interface, that's amarok only
[01:23] <Lathiat> \sh: dronkqi --help
[01:23] <Lathiat> drkonqi --help
[02:26] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-commitment.php proofreaders welcome
[02:26] <Riddell> required infact
[02:33] <apokryphos> might be a good idea to have the last two sentences in the first paragraph flow on; "and our goals" might be better (last paragraph)
[02:33] <apokryphos> isn't it better to recommend #kubuntu-devel for developers? Might be a good idea to mention the other ways in which people can contribute too (documentation etc)
[02:34] <apokryphos> (could link to the Helping Kubuntu wiki page)
[02:34] <apokryphos> p.s. shipit stuff sounds very exciting and promising :)
[02:34] <Riddell> -devel channels are usually not mentioned publicly to keep noise down, anyone who is interested in development should get told to come here though
[02:34] <Riddell> HelpingKubuntu is a bit out of date
[02:35] <Riddell> but yes, I'll do that
[02:35] <apokryphos> I see. Good idea
[02:37] <Riddell> DrakeSon: come to montreal tomorrow!
[02:37] <DrakeSon> what's going on tomorrow? :D
[02:43] <Riddell> Drakeson: it's my last day here
[02:44] <Drakeson> :( I am not sure if I can make it, but I'll try. (I have something else to do very soon)
[02:45] <Drakeson> and of course I really like to meet you there
[02:45] <Riddell> Drakeson: actually I'm here on sunday too
[02:46] <Riddell> but it's a day off so I don't know where I'll be
[02:46] <Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBelowZero/
[03:54] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell, "at the success of Kubuntu, " should be "at the success of Kubuntu: "
[03:54] <seth_k|lappy> "As a community project" should be "As a community project,"
[03:55] <seth_k|lappy> " join us on #kubuntu IRC channel on the Freenode network " should be " join us on on the Freenode IRC network in channel #kubuntu " (personal preference)
[03:56] <seth_k|lappy> "start of the conference Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth " should be "start of the conference, Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth "
[03:56] <seth_k|lappy> "first class" = "first-class"
[03:57] <seth_k|lappy> "was evidence as the need for this" should be either "was evidence for the need for this" or "evidenced the need for this"
[03:57] <seth_k|lappy> and now I'm done :P
[08:14] <pef> hello
[08:16] <Mez> bk] 
[08:16] <Mez> nl
[08:16] <Mez> bk
[08:16] <Mez> ffs#
[08:17] <Mez> hi
[08:49] <pef> someone using kde3.5 beta2 here ?
[08:57] <pef> Riddell: I've a problem with Debian's kdissert package. When I packaged myself kdissert-1.0.5, I had to patch SConstruct file to disable rpath, and Debian's maintainer seems to have modified SConstruct file by hand, without notifiying it anywhere :/ (you can see the modification on the .orig.tar.gz file http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/k/kdissert/kdissert_1.0.5.debian.orig.tar.gz), how can I handle this ?
[08:58] <pef> I think I should notify maintainer so he can release a new clean package
[09:02] <Mez> pef: if he changed upstream, leave it as it is from debian - unless it needs to be changed back
[09:02] <Mez> contact the DD and ask him why the change was made, and why it was done in the way it was
[09:03] <pef> Mez: I've made the same modification to get rid off rpath, but I wrote a patch
[09:03] <Mez> and then if you still disagree with the decision to do it that way, contact a member of ubuntu-core-dev and ask them whether you should change
[09:04] <Mez> but, remember - we're trying to keep as minimal a delta as possible to debian, no need to recreate the work
[09:04] <pef> I agree the modification, but modifying upstream sources without notifying it anywhere isn't very clean :/
[09:06] <Mez> then speak to the DD and ask them why it was done and if they can fix it/object to you fixing it
[09:08] <pef> Mez: thanks
[09:13] <Mez> np
[09:14] <Mez> but you may not want to take my advice
[09:14] <Mez> I'm probably wrong.
[09:22] <pef> Mez: I think debian's maintainer just made tests and finally forgot to mention it :)
[09:28] <tabb> anyone around?
[09:28] <Mez> .l
[09:28] <Mez> .l
[09:28] <Mez> lo
[09:29] <tabb> I'm having a problem trying to install kubuntu from the DVD/CD's - it starts up and stalls at scsi [success] 
[09:29] <tabb> i have tried with noapic nolapic with nothing changing... any ideas?
[09:30] <Mez> External drive?
[09:30] <tabb> nope... it's an Asus laptop... all that is plugged in is a external usb mouse
[09:30] <tabb> and i tried unplugging that as well...
[09:31] <Mez> ask Kamion in about 6/7 hours
[09:32] <tabb> ok.. in the meantime i am downloading breezy and see if that works... i have tried with ubuntu 5.04 as well and same thing happens
[09:33] <tabb> but i am getting the CD version... much different between the DVD install/live and CD? or is it just the live feature?
[02:12] <Tonio_> morning
[02:18] <Tm_T> hi Tonio_ 
[02:18] <Tm_T> what's up man
[02:20] <Tonio_> hi Tm_T 
[02:20] <Tonio_> what's happening ?
[02:20] <Tonio_> well war in france, and I'm fine ;)
[02:20] <Tm_T> dunno, it's "find new things in IM world" day for me
[02:20] <Tonio_> I have several packages to build this WEwhat's "IM" ?
[02:21] <Tm_T> Instant Mesaging
[02:21] <Tonio_> s/WEwh/WE, wh
[02:21] <Tonio_> arf ;)
[02:21] <Tonio_> not fine with Kopete ?
[02:21] <\sh> instant messaging
[02:22] <Tm_T> new things in kopete (dev-0.12 branch) and finally installed openwengo too
[02:22] <Tm_T> an yes I'm very happy with Kopete <3<3
[02:22] <Tonio_> openwengo is really very promissing
[02:22] <Tonio_> I'm following this project for a long, long time
[02:22] <Tm_T> I remember so
[02:22] <Tonio_> I worked for the company that develops it
[02:23] <Tm_T> we discussed about this a month ago ;)
[02:23] <Tonio_> so I first eard about it about a year ago
[02:23] <Tonio_> yes
[02:23] <Tonio_> did they finally released a tarball ?
[02:23] <Tm_T> well, some tarball, but voudlnt compile it neither
[02:23] <Tonio_> that's the problem at the moment..... packaging from svn isn't something I like to do....
[02:24] <Tm_T> but, rpm -> alien -> dpkg -i did the job
[02:24] <Tonio_> I think the tarball will be released with the first stable public version
[02:25] <Tonio_> the problem with IM is the actual merging between Yahoo and MSN....
[02:25] <Tonio_> It'll be hard to compete with this....
[02:26] <Tonio_> Tm_T: what about the skype's kopete integration ?
[02:26] <Tonio_> I know it uses skype as a backend, but how does it work with sound ?
[02:27] <Tonio_> output oss or  uses arts, but then what about the delay ?
[02:27] <Tm_T> I have no idea, never thested it (it's in work branch or playground)
[02:27] <Tonio_> okay
[02:27] <Tm_T> -h
[02:27] <Tm_T> damn, can't write today
[02:28] <Tonio_> I tried mercury recently, closed sources, but works fine, if you wanna tests things, that can be interesting
[02:28] <Tm_T> closed source -> no need to tes, I like to modify things ;)
[02:28] <Tonio_> ^^
[02:28] <Tm_T> like, I've been working with windeco this week
[02:29] <Tonio_> windeco ? unknown to me
[02:29] <Tm_T> window decoration
[02:29] <Tm_T> titlebar & borders etc
[02:29] <Tonio_> okay.... 
[02:30] <Tm_T> and its behaviour
[02:30] <Tonio_> hard for me to understand cut workds ;)
[02:30] <Tm_T> heh
[02:30] <Tonio_> words
[02:31] <Tm_T> http://www.kapsi.fi/~tm_travolta/kuvat/temp/foo/windeco_04.jpg
[02:31] <Tonio_> because I knew a "windeco" company, that's the reason for the confusion, sorry ;)
[02:31] <Tm_T> flatknifty based
[02:31] <Tonio_> hum, that's nice !
[02:32] <Tm_T> my job was to get border thickness settings work
[02:32] <Tm_T> haven't changed more yet
[02:32] <Tm_T> will make it less flat etc
[02:33] <Tonio_> k, that's promissing, I really like the look'n'feel
[02:34] <Tm_T> I made borders thinner already
[02:35] <Tonio_> I was very surprised readding that Mark switched to Kubuntu for his desktop
[02:36] <Tm_T> I was pleased
[02:36] <Tonio_> that's the best that could happen, getting for kubuntu the same support that for ubuntu
[02:36] <Tm_T> that means we have to be right when we say "gnome sucks!!1" ;--P
[02:36] <Tonio_> haha !!
[02:37] <Tonio_> Riddell can be proud of him, he initiated something that is called to become a very big thing ;)
[02:37] <Tm_T> yu
[02:37] <OculusAquilae> gnome doesn't suck, but kde is better
[02:37] <Tonio_> OculusAquilae: agree
[02:37] <Tm_T> OculusAquilae: exactly, you saw my smiley there? ;)
[02:38] <Tm_T> although I'm very serious person
[02:38] <OculusAquilae> Tm_T: yes, and I forgot the smiley at my answer :)
[02:39] <Tm_T> :p
[02:39] <\sh> well
[02:39] <\sh> u can't be serious
[02:39] <Tm_T> I am!
[02:39] <\sh> gnome and kde are having both many problems with usability
[02:39] <Tm_T> true
[02:39] <\sh> we saw that during our talks here
[02:39] <OculusAquilae> right
[02:40] <OculusAquilae> but usability problems are everywhere
[02:40] <OculusAquilae> not only in kde and gnome
[02:40] <Tonio_> hum serious question, concerning a package
[02:40] <Tonio_> there is an app, called k9copy, I'd like to package....
[02:40] <Tonio_> but it is, in a certain way, hard to perform
[02:40] <\sh> OculusAquilae: but kde has more of them...gnome had done a lot of work during the last months...and the goal has to be, that we fix kdes usability bugs asap
[02:41] <\sh> OculusAquilae: better desktop integration
[02:41] <Tm_T> actually to me, usability means possibility to choose the level of "eyecandy" and this way readability
[02:41] <Tonio_> it uses a modified version version of Vamps
[02:41] <OculusAquilae> \sh: right
[02:41] <Tonio_> but this application has no author, and no homepage.....
[02:42] <OculusAquilae> lol, no author :)
[02:42] <\sh> Tonio_: then this software is eviol
[02:42] <\sh> evil
[02:42] <Tonio_> I can split the package, but the vaps one mau never be approved.....
[02:42] <Tonio_> \sh: why ?
[02:42] <\sh> Tonio_: no author, no upstream maintainer
[02:42] <Tonio_> yes
[02:42] <\sh> Tonio_: do u want to be the new upstream maintainer?
[02:42] <Tonio_> but k9copy rocks and uses it.....
[02:43] <Tonio_> \sh: no I would like to package Kcopy, I don't have something to do with vamps ;)
[02:43] <\sh> Tonio_: doesn't matter...if you package this thing, u have to be real serious about the issue, that you have to fix it even if it's upstream
[02:43] <Tonio_> s/k/k9
[02:44] <Tonio_> \sh: what kind of issues are you talking about ?
[02:44] <\sh> Tonio_: security, bugs etc.
[02:45] <\sh> Tonio_: lets say it like this
[02:45] <\sh> Tonio_: if there is no upstream...who writes the source then...
[02:45] <Tonio_> \sh: I'm even not a developper, so the question isn't there ;) I can't be the upstream of anything ;)
[02:45] <Tonio_> I may talk with the k9copy upstream about the possibility to use something else than wamps
[02:46] <Tonio_> or completly including the vamps code in it one instead of using it has a separate binary
[02:46] <\sh> Tonio_: if u package the thingy, u will take over the maintainership...if there is no upstream anymore, u'll take over the responsibilty to fix the software itself...and if u don't have the time for this, u have to make clear, that u want to get rid of the software
[02:46] <Tonio_> packaging issues would dissapear
[02:46] <\sh> Tonio_: i thought it doesn't have an upstream author
[02:46] <Tonio_> \sh: k9copy has an upstream..........
[02:47] <Tonio_> it is actively maintained
[02:47] <\sh> 14:42 < Tonio_> but this application has no author, and no homepage.....
[02:47] <Tonio_> vamps isn't but is required by k9copy
[02:47] <Tonio_> ;)
[02:47] <\sh> oh...
[02:47] <Tonio_> yes
[02:47] <\sh> a build dep
[02:47] <\sh> without an author..
[02:47] <Tonio_> and there is a modified version of vamps provided in the k9copy tarball
[02:48] <Tonio_> so may I consider that the upstream take the responsabilities for the vamps maintainance ?
[02:48] <\sh> Tonio_: u can't tell
[02:48] <Tonio_> the packaging problem isn't technicall, it is in the way to make the package fine with the debian/ubuntu policy
[02:49] <Tonio_> I may discuss with the upstream, he is french....
[02:50] <Tonio_> \sh: it isn't a build dep..... I mean the version of vamps provided is a modified one, and it is provided in the tarball
[02:50] <Tonio_> \sh: so may I consider that it is a part of the application and not split ?
[02:50] <Tonio_> that's the tricky thing ;)
[02:51] <\sh> Tonio_: if there is a version shipped with the normal source, and the build system is already somewhere else in the universe...it's a split...which is foobar for me
[02:52] <Tonio_> \sh: there is nothing in Universe or any branch that concerns vamps, and there probably never will
[02:53] <Tonio_> but if so, that would result a apt conflict concerning the "vamps" binary
[02:53] <Tonio_> http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=23885 <- it is one of the most popular application on kde-apps
[02:54] <Tm_T> I do watch movies fomr dvd, that's about all
[02:54] <Tonio_> Tm_T: I don't so, but many linux users do.....
[02:54] <Tm_T> true
[02:55] <Tm_T> take "backups"
[02:55] <Tonio_> how many linux users are using dvdshrink within wine ? 50%, maybe more.....
[02:56] <Tonio_> well.... I'll discuss about that on #ubuntu-motu
[02:56] <Tm_T> please do :)
[02:56] <Tonio_> I need to get the way to package this clear.....
[02:57] <Tonio_> Tm_T: I'm personnaly packaging many application that I don't have something to do with....
[02:57] <Tm_T> Tonio_: that's good thing :)
[02:57] <Tonio_> but if I have the feeling that it can be of any use and that it is something missing, that HAS to be added
[02:58] <Tonio_> and an application of that such quality, that is a response of a question I really  ear very often when talking about linux.....
[02:58] <Tonio_> "what about switching to linux ?"
[02:59] <Tonio_> "are there any equivalents to wmp/winamp, msn, nero, dvdshrink,  emule ? I won't switch without this"
[02:59] <Tonio_> and there is something I can't answer ;) hehe
[03:04] <Tm_T> I think amaroK & Kopete & Kontact are killer apps
[03:04] <Tm_T> keep me using linux
[03:04] <Tm_T> and KDE overall
[03:10] <pef> Tonio_: handbrake is great, but needs a lot of cvs libraries versions, and jamfile is ugly (wget to get specific libraries)
[03:13] <OculusAquilae> konqueror is a killer app too i think
[03:15] <Tm_T> OculusAquilae: so agree
[03:15] <Tm_T> though firefox is ok
[03:16] <OculusAquilae> for web-browsing is firefox good, but konqueror is more than a web-browser
[03:16] <Tm_T> yup
[03:19] <Tonio_> pef: I'll have a look
[03:20] <Tonio_> I personnaly would like to see konqueror splitted in two....
[03:20] <Tonio_> or maybe, giving the possibility to had more things to the profile
[03:20] <Tonio_> homepage is the same for all profiles for example....
[03:21] <Tonio_> I would like to have a website for the webbrowser and my home folder in filebriwsing mode.
[03:21] <Tonio_> filebrowsing
[03:22] <hunger> Tonio_: Save the profile including the location.
[03:22] <Tonio_> hunger: yes
[03:22] <Tonio_> I know that, but not the "homepage"
[03:22] <Tonio_> which is totaly different
[03:23] <hunger> Tonio_: What is the "homepage" but a location?
[03:23] <Tonio_> hunger, that means that when you start konqueror, you have your homepage...
[03:23] <Tonio_> but how to go there while surfing ?
[03:24] <Tonio_> typing the address or add it to your favorites.....
[03:24] <hunger> Tonio_: Hmmm... right.
[03:24] <Tonio_> don't get me wrong, I don't use firefox and even don't have it installed
[03:24] <hunger> Tonio_: Well, in general I don't need that as I open everything in tabs anyway.
[03:24] <Tonio_> another really anoying thing
[03:25] <Tonio_> open konqueror in webbrosing mode
[03:25] <Tonio_> then with the "system" applet, near by the K button, open your home directory
[03:25] <hunger> Tonio_: What I find annoying is opening links from other apps in konq.
[03:26] <Tonio_> it opens it the current konqueror session
[03:26] <Tonio_> and doesn't open a new one with filebrowsing  profile
[03:26] <hunger> Tonio_: That opens a new tab after all the "default tabs" saved in the webbrowsing profile. But it does not open them.
[03:27] <hunger> Tonio_: So you end up with lots of empty tabs:-(
[03:27] <Tonio_> hunger: hum, I don't those problems....
[03:27] <hunger> And it does open a new konq window when asked to open a url on a virtual desktop that has no konq open at the moment.
[03:28] <Tonio_> but well, I really love konq, there are just a few things anoying me ;)
[03:28] <hunger> Tonio_: Same here:-)
[03:30] <Tonio_> ^^
[03:37] <pef> someone running kde3.5 beta2 ?
[03:38] <Tonio_away> nope
[03:39] <OculusAquilae> pef: yes
[03:41] <pef> OculusAquilae: can you try to launch khotkeys from konsole ?
[03:42] <OculusAquilae> yes
[03:44] <OculusAquilae> pef: it starts and nothing happens (don't even know what khotkeys should do)
[03:44] <pef> OculusAquilae: it crashes for me, so the problem comes from me, thank you :)
[03:45] <OculusAquilae> ahh
[03:45] <OculusAquilae> ok
[03:46] <OculusAquilae> ahh its a daemon
[04:37] <KabelKasper>  Tonio_: Hi, the hompage of vamps is: http://sourceforge.net/projects/vamps
[04:38] <KabelKasper> Tonia_: And i know of lxdvdrip, that they made the same changes to vamps
[04:39] <KabelKasper> Tonio_: changelog: Version 1.46 / 01.06.05:
[04:39] <KabelKasper> - Create all temp-files in tmp-Dir named in Configfile.
[04:39] <KabelKasper> - Add DVD Name to movie directory (/tmp/film-dvd/Name_DVD).
[04:39] <KabelKasper> - Vamps: mpeg2 Audio (Patch from k9copy).
[04:40] <KabelKasper> Tonio_: I think vamps was a project of the german IT news heise.de
[04:42] <KabelKasper>  Tonio_away: I hope you can read this next time. I would realy like a k9copy package.
[04:43] <pef> KabelKasper: k9copy use a modified version of vamps, provided by k9copy author, not easy to handle :/
[04:49] <KabelKasper> pef: but lxdvdrip (http://developer.berlios.de/projects/lxdvdrip) for example needs the same changes, maybe there is a chance to get them into the upstream vamps?
[04:53] <pef> KabelKasper: only if someone submit the patch to vamps authors :) I cannot find anything on vamps homepage (no patch or bug request)
[04:57] <KabelKasper> pef: i found some older debian packages, mavbe thats of interrest? http://spirit.knio.it/~maxer/deb/sarge/
[04:59] <pef> KabelKasper: vamps package on this page seems to be a home made version (patched), so not helpfull for k9copy
[05:00] <pef> KabelKasper: I think build package another version of vamps (vamps-x.y.ubuntu) with the patch seems to be the best solution
[05:03] <KabelKasper> An now i found the new debian packages too! http://repos.knio.it/dists/unstable/main/source/kde/
[05:04] <KabelKasper> pef: http://repos.knio.it/dists/unstable/main/source/kde/
[05:05] <pef> KabelKasper: vamps doesn't seems to be packaged in Debian
[05:06] <KabelKasper> The new k9copy packages seem to include vamps
[05:07] <KabelKasper> pef: but i have to go now, sorry. 
[06:33] <Tonio_> pef_aw: when you read this, I'll discuss with the k9copy upstream....
[06:33] <Tonio_> vamps doesn't seem to be maintained actually...
[06:34] <Tonio_> so maybe the vamps code can be added directly in k9copy or the binary can have a different name.
[06:34] <Tonio_> that has to be decided by the k9copy upstream, but I can suggest ;)
[06:35] <Tonio_> all depends if vamps is maintained or not, and if k9copy upstream is waiting for new vamps releases to get sync with.....
[06:36] <Tonio_> I need to make a point on that, because it is a great app, but hard to handle with to provide official packages.....