[12:51] <LaserJock> I have a quick question, is there going to be a packaging guide done?
[12:51] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, already exists
[12:51] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: where?
[12:51] <Burgundavia> just needs to packaged
[12:51] <Burgundavia> talk to the motus
[12:51] <Burgundavia> it is going to be moved into our repos soon
[12:52] <LaserJock> well, I work with the MOTUs
[12:52] <LaserJock> is it on the wiki?
[12:52] <Burgundavia> nope
[12:52] <Burgundavia> unfrgiven has made it
[12:53] <LaserJock> ok, I am working on MOTU wiki pages and I thin rob^ mentioned that I should take a look at it
[12:54] <rob^> yes
[12:54] <LaserJock> where would I find it?
[12:55] <mdke> #ubuntu-meeting LaserJock 
[12:55] <Burgundavia> speak with Unfrgiven in #ubuntu-motu
[02:26] <mdke> jsgotangco, as i was saying
[02:26] <jsgotangco> mm?
[02:26] <mdke> my boss went to manila last week
[02:26] <jsgotangco> oh he did
[02:26] <mdke> for a wedding :)
[02:26] <jsgotangco> did he like it?
[02:26] <jsgotangco> he got married?
[02:26] <mdke> i'm not sure
[02:26] <mdke> no, his g/f's sister
[02:26] <mdke> he was meeting the inlaws for the first time
[02:27] <jsgotangco> well
[02:27] <mdke> anyhow, he had a good time because they went to some island
[02:27] <jsgotangco> being married over to a filipina/filipino means getting married to the whoe clan
[02:27] <mdke> heh
[02:27] <jsgotangco> he probably went to boracay
[02:27] <mdke> he was born there himself, but he is english. his g/f is half and half
[02:28] <jsgotangco> yes there are a lot of foreigners born here...
[02:28] <mdke> he said the island was really small, with just one hotel, somewhere in the south?
[02:28] <jsgotangco> for some strange reason
[02:28] <jsgotangco> hmm
[02:28] <jsgotangco> el nido
[02:28] <jsgotangco> perhaps
[02:28] <jsgotangco> there are a ton of private islands over there
[02:28] <mdke> rob^, you're still not commenting wiki page edits? my god
[02:29] <rob^> well without a trivial edit button I couldn't be bothered most of the time
[02:29] <jsgotangco> rob^: face the wrath of the wiki mastah
[02:29] <mdke> i am always pissed if I accidentally press return too soon and miss my comment
[02:29] <rob^> bring back the trivial edit button then I will comment the relevent stuff
[02:30] <mdke> there is no trivial button?
[02:30] <rob^> otherwise the only comments will be relevent stuff :)
[02:30] <rob^> oh its back
[02:30] <mdke> it's always been there
[02:30] <rob^> nah they removed it along with the subscribe option the other day
[02:31] <mdke> erm
[02:32] <mdke> you sure you're not thinking of another wiki?
[02:32] <rob^> no
[02:32] <mdke> hmm
[02:32] <mdke> must have been an accidental theme change
[02:32] <rob^> there were a few people complaining about it
[02:32] <rob^> its just a setting in the moin config
[02:32] <rob^> iirc
[02:32] <mdke> i can svn rm kde/upstream yeah?
[02:33] <rob^> sure
[02:33] <mhz_shower> it's a setting line on wikiconfig.py, indeed
[02:33] <LaserJock> do you guys now if there is a plan to make subscriptions stay with renaming of wiki pages?
[02:33] <mdke> LaserJock, that is out of our hands I'm afraid
[02:34] <mdke> it depends on the software
[02:34] <mdke> ok svn up guys
[02:34] <rob^> :)
[02:34] <mhz> LaserJock: however, I'd say that a wiki with no subscription makes absolutely no sense to my chilean ears
[02:34] <mdke> mhz, that is not what he said
[02:34] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, I thought so, thanks anyway
[02:34] <mhz> mdke: i know, i am supporting his idea
[02:35] <jsgotangco> what does A in svn mean
[02:35] <mdke> rob^, jsgotangco, can we get rid of some more of the miscellaneous stuff in the tree?
[02:35] <mdke> jsgotangco, Add
[02:35] <mhz> my guess is LaserJock wants that back?
[02:35] <mdke> jsgotangco, what is that "artwork" folder?
[02:35] <jsgotangco> ok thought so, at least the ubuntu upstream stuff is intact
[02:36] <jsgotangco> mdke: just leave it in branch...
[02:36] <LaserJock> mhz: well, I want to be able to rename a wiki and have the subscriptions change accordingly
[02:36] <mdke> jsgotangco, the artwork?
[02:36] <mdke> artwork is not in branch
[02:36] <mhz> LaserJock: me too :D I wanted to do some little complaining but I had second thought
[02:36] <jsgotangco> mdke: yes its mostly brochures we'll probably transfer them to marketing or art
[02:37] <mhz> LaserJock: ohh, sorry. let me think again
[02:37] <LaserJock> I am trying to clean up the MOTU wiki pages but I can't rename them without messing up everybodys subscriptions
[02:37] <mdke> LaserJock, renaming wiki pages is a immensely bad idea, don't do it
[02:37] <mhz> LaserJock: nop, currently it is not possible, unless new Moin v.2.0 includes it
[02:37] <mdke> LaserJock, it has other bad effects
[02:38] <LaserJock> mdke: well, I know, I just wish it were possible. what about redirecting, is that OK?
[02:38] <jsgotangco> wow FreeBSD 6 has wpa support
[02:38] <mdke> LaserJock, check out WikiGuide. basically, you can delete pages or rename em if you make sure there are gonna be NO BROKEN LINKS, either on the wiki or the wider internet
[02:39] <LaserJock> I hate making any more clutter but then I can't really unclutter either
[02:39] <mhz> LaserJock: the thing is that my guess, is that people who actively participates in wikis should check RecentChanges on daily basis so they know which pages was renamed and/or deleted
[02:39] <mdke> jsgotangco, were you suggesting I should delete gnome/upstream too?
[02:39] <mdke> it has update-manager and gnome-app-install in it
[02:40] <mhz> LaserJock: however, I'd say that a little tweaking to Moin code on 'mailing code' should do the trick to at least send an emial to subscribers
[02:40] <jsgotangco> mdke: goodness no!
[02:41] <jsgotangco> those are ubuntu upstream and our only source atm
[02:41] <LaserJock> I am going to leave it alone for right now but I wanted to put all of the MOTU stuff under MOTU/ 
[02:41] <mdke> jsgotangco, why?
[02:41] <mdke> jsgotangco, shouldn't that be in gnome cvs?
[02:41] <mhz> LaserJock: but moving subscribers 1st page to subscribers 2nd page... that sounds like much more than tweaking moin code
[02:42] <jsgotangco> they'e not gnome projects atm
[02:42] <mdke> jsgotangco, rob^, another thing that is a mess is that there is a libs/ directory in trunk/, kde/ and gnome/
[02:42] <mdke> jsgotangco, update-manager is definitely in gnome cvs, I saw it
[02:42] <rob^> mdke, I agree
[02:43] <rob^> dam my bb is slow
[02:44] <jsgotangco> mdke: well ok but i'm doing gai atm
[02:53] <mdke> ok there is a bit of breakage with the rename
[02:53] <mdke> things like this: desktopguide/C/desktopguide.xml:9: warning: failed to load external entity "../gnome/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent"
[02:54] <mdke> that needs to be gradually fixed :D
[02:58] <mdke> :)
[02:59] <mdke> i'm fixing some stuff in the makefiles now
[03:02] <jsgotangco> im on puny bb at the moment
[03:02] <rob^> I'm fixing the validation in the kde docs
[03:04] <mdke> awesome
[03:04] <rob^> kquickguide is done
[03:04] <mdke> i've screwed around with trunk a bit more rob^ so svn up
[03:06] <rob^> there I'm done, they both now use xinclude and vaildate properly
[03:08] <mdke> nice one rob^ 
[03:08] <rob^> thanks :)
[03:08] <rob^> ok I'm off
[03:08] <rob^> bye mdke, jsgotangco 
[03:09] <mdke> bye, thanks
[03:09] <jsgotangco> brb
[03:32] <mdke> this bhuvan guy is gonna be good
[03:32] <mdke> i have a good feeling
[03:33] <jsgotangco> most indians i know are quite good

[03:34] <mdke> :)
[03:35] <jsgotangco> my boss for instance is of indian descent
[03:37] <mdke> have a nice saturday
[03:39] <jsgotangco> night
[03:44] <jsgotangco> robitaille: hello evil telus.net user :)
[03:46] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  hi there.  yes, I'm an evil telus user.  But it was cheap :)
[03:47] <robitaille> I'll have to go look a the logs of the meeting to see how much I missed.
[03:47] <jsgotangco> didnt seveas give you a nick mask yet?
[03:47] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  I think so.
[03:47] <robitaille> yep:   [robitaille]  (n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille): Daniel Robitaille
[03:48] <Madpilot> robitaille's nick mask shows up here instead of his IP
[03:48] <robitaille> I'm about to give up on the ubuntupeople forum people..  My last attempt was to try to convince them that their meeting should be on Ubuntu-meeting, but they don't want that.
[03:49] <jsgotangco> i aw your ip
[03:49] <jsgotangco> hehe
[03:49] <Madpilot> robitaille: enjoying their own little empire, are they?
[03:50] <jsgotangco> ok let's make it the two towers then
[03:50] <jsgotangco> marketing lp and ubuntupeople
[03:50] <robitaille> Madpilot,  they don't feel they are ready to open up to the world before they are ready between the 5 of them.
[03:50] <jsgotangco> hehe
[03:50] <Madpilot> If there are really only 5 of them, then the sooner they link up with docteam and the other main Ubuntu teams, the better...
[03:52] <robitaille> the way I see it, the earlier they link up with the other team, the easier it will be for them to use resources of the whole community
[03:52] <jsgotangco> robitaille: who owns the lp team same person right?
[03:53] <jsgotangco> it seems they prefer doing business nowadays on the their forum rather than on the list created for marketing :)
[03:56] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  Trent Lloyd  is the guy behind the fourums;  he is not on the LP team.  He used to be on the ML, but he stopped using it (not even sure he is subscribe anymore)
[03:56] <nickrud> I was wondering if there was any particular reason that AddingCodecsToTotemHowTo was dropped from the wiki
[03:56] <jsgotangco> Lathiat?
[03:57] <robitaille> humm...not Lathiat.  I guess I have the name wrong.  one sec.
[03:57] <Madpilot> nickrud: probably because the content was in RestrictedContent?
[03:58] <Madpilot> RestrictedFormats, rather...
[03:58] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  "Lloyd Hardy".  Wrong LLoyd :)
[03:59] <nickrud> Until I linked the codecs into .gnome2/totem-addons, I didn't get thumbnailing of rm files
[03:59] <jsgotangco> figured heh
[03:59] <robitaille> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LloydHardy
[03:59] <nickrud> or playability, for that matter (totem-xine)
[04:00] <mdke> nickrud, perhaps the best thing is to try to improve RestrictedFormats, or link off to a subpage
[04:01] <mdke> jsgotangco, i just thought, before going to bed, we should go to town on repos/vendor too :D
[04:01] <mdke> the thought was before I go to bed, not the going to town
[04:01] <nickrud> I'm not sure if it's actually a bug, or intended, or whatever. I'll look around a bit more first
[04:08] <jsgotangco> mdke: yuck im not going into that territory
[04:08] <mdke> ;)
[04:08] <robitaille> froud?  the name sounds familiar :)
[04:09] <jsgotangco> have you seen the gentoo documentation project (im sure mdke does)
[04:10] <robitaille> no
[04:10] <robitaille> good I assume?
[04:11] <jsgotangco> its about to reach the quality of the freebsd handbook
[04:11] <robitaille> was the Quicktour mentioned during the meeting?  I see that it is still on DocteamProjects
[04:12] <jsgotangco> they even use their own markup
[04:12] <mdke> yes it's insanely good
[04:12] <mdke> but that's not surprising really
[04:13] <mdke> mature distro, expert userbase
[04:13] <jsgotangco> mdke: did you rename or just copied?
[04:13] <mdke> eh?
[04:13] <jsgotangco> i seem to  be having gnome and ubuntu now
[04:13] <jsgotangco> kde and kubuntu
[04:13] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:14] <mdke> erm
[04:14] <robitaille> I'm not a big fan of of the colours on the gentoo doc site, but it seems impressive
[04:14] <mdke> only ubuntu and kubuntu are under version control
[04:14] <mdke> you must have some junk left over
[04:14] <jsgotangco> strange everything is in svn still
[04:14] <jsgotangco> :)
[04:15] <jsgotangco> robitaille: they built their own markup based on docbook how crackful can you get
[04:15] <jsgotangco> hehe
[04:15] <mdke> jsgotangco, https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/
[04:15] <mdke> i'll do a bit more cleaning tomorrow
[04:16] <jsgotangco> i'll just grab a new wc later i'm going to play with my car first
[04:17] <mdke> cool
[04:17] <mdke> have fun
[04:18] <jsgotangco> it would be nice if our svn commits can be converted to lp karma
[04:18] <mdke> heh
[04:19] <mdke> and if svn commit acces was linked to ubuntu-doc lp group membership
[04:19] <mdke> peer?
[04:19] <jsgotangco> on translation
[04:20] <mdke> what is peer?
[04:20] <jsgotangco> oh its EN_US for co-worker
[04:20] <mdke> jordi's karma is a lot better than that
[04:20] <mdke> oh I see
[04:20] <mdke> yes, we have that word, i just didn't get it
[04:20] <jsgotangco> well jordi is a different case
[04:21] <jsgotangco> he uses lp like he plays quake or street fighter
[04:22] <jsgotangco> when we were in UDU, he was teased so much that he looked like Vega (of street fighter)
[04:22] <mdke> heh
[04:22] <robitaille> I use to be near 400 of karma...but I'm now down in the 100s.
[04:22] <mdke> nah his karma is high because he uploads a lot of po and pot files
[04:23] <mdke> go to his page, then click translations
[04:23] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:23] <robitaille> I really have to get back into the bug triage business
[04:23] <mdke> LP crashes for me :)
[04:23] <jsgotangco> im sure the karma system will incorporate more, but at the moment, most of the karma comes from rosetta
[04:23] <jsgotangco> malone doesn't give that much
[04:23] <mdke> i've just done an svn rm, how can I undo my change?
[04:24] <robitaille> both my written french and english sucks, so I try to stay away from rosetta
[04:24] <mdke> found it
[05:24] <mhz> i could happily subscribe to wiki pages this time
[05:25] <robitaille> mhz ?
[05:26] <mhz> robitaille: last time I had tried to subscribe to wiki pages I found no option (it seems it had been dactivated in wikiconfig.py) No, i could
[05:26] <mhz> No = Now
[05:27] <robitaille> ah.    that's nice.   I subscribe to the whole wiki, then filter out the changes I'm interested in my mailbox
[05:28] <Madpilot> Subscribe was disabled for a while yesterday, not sure why
[05:29] <mhz> me neither, Madpilot 
[05:29] <mhz> robitaille: yes, subscription to all my be wise in some cases but not for my case
[05:30] <LaserJock> to subscribe to all do you put * in the subscription box?
[06:43] <robitaille> LaserJock,  to subscribe to all, you need to use  .*
[06:46] <LaserJock> so, if I want to do all of the MOTU wiki pages can I just do MOTU* ?
[06:47] <robitaille> LaserJock,   possibly.  I never tried it, but think it should work.
[06:50] <LaserJock> well, that is what I have. I haven't gotten any emails since I did that but it could be all the UBZ work ;-)
[06:51] <Madpilot> LaserJock: you could always subscribe to RecentChanges as a backup :P
[06:52] <robitaille> It's 1am in Montreal.  They are all in bed, or they are all partying;  I think it was poker night tonight :)
[06:52] <LaserJock> Madpilot: good suggestion, thanks
[06:52] <robitaille> Let me go edit one of the MOTU page to see if the change shows up on your end.
[06:53] <LaserJock> robitaille: thanks
[06:54] <robitaille> did a trivial edit to MOTUScience.   But according to the message from the wiki after my edit, I don't think it sent you an email
[06:56] <robitaille> maybe you should use  MOTU.* as your pattern
[06:57] <Rob2> how do i get the grub menu to use the full screen of my laptop on boot?
[06:59] <LaserJock> robitaille: could you edit MOTUScience again but not mark it as a trivial change?
[06:59] <Madpilot> is anyone else having trouble with GMail? I can log in, but then it just sits at "Loading..." forever...
[07:04] <rob^> sometimes evolution craps out with the password, even though it is correct..
[07:05] <Madpilot> no, this is in Opera, off mail.google.com - I'm going to check with FF - but Opera was working just fine last night, and I've not changed anything...
[07:07] <robitaille> Madpilot,  I had problem with gmail yesterday, but today seems fine.
[07:07] <robitaille> LaserJock,  done.  And I think an email is on its way :)
[07:08] <rob^> oh for those wondering whats going on with the ccbysa.xml, you need to use xincludes instead of entities now
[07:08] <rob^> using xincludes is kind of like using functions when programming, you can have your own variables (entities) and stuff
[07:08] <rob^> (local variables)
[07:09] <rob^> using an entity to include a .xml doc includes it exactly as is, hence doubling up on the header and causing erros
[07:09] <rob^> s/erros/errors
[07:09] <LaserJock> robitaille: that worked, thanks much
[07:14] <rob^> man I hate /., I posted that story about a $100 wind-up laptop a month ago and it got rejected..
[07:15] <rob^> (preview my ass)
[07:31] <rob^> hi
[07:31] <LaserJock> Kyral: hi
[07:31] <Kyral> night ;P
[07:33] <LaserJock> rob^: I emailed Unfrgiven about the packaging guide, I don't know when I will get a reply. I don't know that he has been on irc lately. Might be at UBZ
[07:34] <rob^> its pretty late now at ubz
[07:34] <rob^> probably get a reply in about 8 hours or so I'd say
[07:34] <rob^> no rush though
[07:35] <Kyral> LJ be sure to keep me updated too, I know some fun tricks :P
[07:35] <LaserJock> Kyral: will do
[07:36] <Kyral> Really asleep now ;P
[07:41] <rob^> hmm the freebsd handbook is really well layed out
[07:41] <LaserJock> rob^: URL?
[07:41] <rob^> actually my layout for the desktop guide is kind of like it without the server bits
[07:41] <rob^> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html
[07:42] <rob^> how odd is that?
[07:42] <rob^> and I've never even seen it before..
[07:42] <LaserJock> great minds think alike? [-)
[07:42] <rob^> heh
[07:45] <LaserJock> is there a guide for users of other linux distros? kind of advanced, this is how we do it in Ubuntu kind of guide.
[07:46] <rob^> umm.. there are handbooks and user guides available for other distros, and there is a gnome userguide but its pretty unloved at the moment
[07:48] <LaserJock> no, I mean for more advanced users coming from other distros to Ubuntu. Stuff like the sudo thing, dpkg-reconfigure, advanced apt-get and stuff that other, non-debian distros don't have
[07:48] <rob^> oh
[07:49] <rob^> well the desktop guide covers things like sudo but there isn't an advanced guide
[07:49] <LaserJock> I am a former gentoo user and I found some things a little hard to get used to at first
[07:49] <LaserJock> I usually find desktop guides pretty boring, so I don't read them much
[07:49] <rob^> ubuntu tends to hold your hand more
[07:50] <rob^> might be something on the wiki maybe..
[07:51] <rob^> I remember there was BreakMyUbuntu once, but it doesn't exactly cover what your after
[07:52] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe I will have to think about that some. Maybe something for the future. I'm not convinced that advanced users would even bother looking at something like that
[07:52] <rob^> yeah agreed
[07:56] <bhuvan> rob^: you there ?
[07:57] <rob^> bhuvan, yes
[07:57] <bhuvan> regarding validation issue. i do get error in trunk
[07:57] <rob^> what doc are you validating?
[07:58] <bhuvan> ok.  kubuntu/kfaqguide/C/faqguide.xml
[07:59] <LaserJock> rob^: what do you guys use to do the docs? I am totally ignorant.
[07:59] <rob^> xml (docbook)
[07:59] <LaserJock> so how do you view that?
[08:00] <LaserJock> I tried conglomerate but I crashed on some of the docs
[08:00] <rob^> I just use gedit to edit it
[08:00] <rob^> and use Yelp to view it
[08:00] <bhuvan> w.u.c/DocteamStepByStepRepository for more details  
[08:00] <rob^> yep
[08:00] <LaserJock> ok, thanks
[08:00] <rob^> bhuvan, the first error is:
[08:00] <rob^> faqguide.xml:9: warning: failed to load external entity "../../../gnome/libs/gnome-menus-C.ent"
[08:01] <rob^> %gnome-menus-C;
[08:01] <rob^>                ^
[08:01] <bhuvan> rob^: by default, it reports 'invalid element ...' error
[08:01] <bhuvan> the first error is '../../../common/C/ccbysa.xml:2: parser error : StartTag: invalid element name'
[08:01] <bhuvan> :)
[08:01] <rob^> its because the header is wrong in that file, remember that mdke just renamed "gnome" to "ubuntu"
[08:01] <rob^> its just looking in the wrong place
[08:02] <bhuvan> yeah, i do have the latest copy
[08:02] <rob^> if you fix up all of the directory paths in faqguide.xml then it will work, there is nothing wrong with ccbysa.xml
[08:03] <rob^> also you need to use xincludes for ccbysa.xml, entities won't work either
[08:03] <bhuvan> ok, i believe the change was done by mdke. i've not done any change myself
[08:03] <bhuvan> should i ?
[08:03] <rob^> sure
[08:03] <rob^> &cc-by-sa;   <-- this is an entity
[08:03] <bhuvan> ok
[08:04] <bhuvan> what should it be ?
[08:04] <rob^> use this for the two licences:
[08:04] <rob^> 	<xi:include href="../../../common/C/ccbysa.xml" xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude"/>
[08:04] <rob^> 	<xi:include href="../../../common/C/fdl.xml" xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude"/>
[08:04] <rob^> and in the header of faqguide.xml you need to have:
[08:05] <rob^> <!ENTITY % xinclude SYSTEM "../../../libs/xinclude.mod">
[08:05] <rob^> %xinclude;
[08:05] <bhuvan> hum
[08:05] <bhuvan> we both are talking the same thing
[08:05] <bhuvan> my patch extactly contains this
[08:05] <rob^> however before working on the kubuntu faq guide you need to talk to jjesse as we are going to use Kudos for it
[08:05] <rob^> well a fork anyway
[08:06] <bhuvan> ok
[08:06] <bhuvan> so, if you make these changes could you please commit the changes ?
[08:06] <rob^> sure
[08:08] <bhuvan> you must do these changes in ubuntu/adminguide/C/adminguide.xml as well
[08:08] <rob^> the admin guide is fine iirc
[08:09] <bhuvan> yeah
[08:16] <LaserJock> so what is wrong with the adminguide?
[08:18] <rob^> the header and the entities by the looks of it
[08:21] <bhuvan> rob^: you can make similar changes in adminguide.xml as well ?
[08:22] <rob^> sure
[01:19] <mdke> hi all
[01:19] <mdke> not a lot of point making sure the adminguide validates since it is totally
[01:19] <mdke> totally/totally obsolete
[03:26] <corey_> morning
[03:26] <mdke> morning
[03:26] <Kyral> Mornin'
[03:26] <corey_> I missed the end of the meeting, after we talked about installing
[03:34] <mdke> corey_, the rest was quite straightforward
[03:35] <mdke> jsgotangco, log in, then go to UserPreferences and select "edubuntu" as your theme, save, and go to FrontPage
[03:36] <jsgotangco> nahhh i like my wiki as is :)
[03:36] <mdke> jsgotangco, sure, you can change it back, just to show you how it works
[03:37] <Burgundavia> grr
[03:37] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: last day at UBZ?
[03:39] <Burgundavia> yep
[03:41] <jsgotangco> did you have a keysigning party?
[03:41] <Kinnison> so I disorganised one instead
[04:06] <Burgundavia> rob^, what is SwitchingtoUbuntu? do you have a big plan? (for the record, I like the general idea, just concerned about implementation)
[04:21] <Kyral> mmm food
[04:29] <Burgundavia> Kyral, can you add yourself to the DocteamProjects you want to work on?
[04:30] <Burgundavia> specific wiki pages are not necessary
[04:30] <Kyral> yup
[04:31] <Kyral> I was also gonna insert a "ToDo" section into my Wikipage, more as a reminder to myself
[04:31] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[04:31] <Burgundavia> do you know about CategoryCleanup ?
[04:32] <Kyral> Nope
[04:32] <Burgundavia> it lists pages that need help
[04:32] <Kyral> I heard about DocTeam from LaserJock b/c he wanted my help with the Packaging Guide
[04:32] <Burgundavia> cool, welcome aboard
[04:32] <Burgundavia> the wiki needs the most help over the dapper devel cycle
[04:33] <Kyral> Yeeeeeaaaaa
[04:33] <Kyral> The LiveCD Entry is like....old....
[04:33] <Kyral> like referring to Warty old
[04:35] <Kyral> Should I put my name in the Installer Guide and change it to WIP?
[04:35] <Burgundavia> yes
[04:36] <jsgotangco> sup
[04:37] <Kyral> Done
[04:37] <jsgotangco> Kyral: welcome
[04:37] <Kyral> Should I join the LaunchPad group?
[04:38] <Burgundavia> the wiki one or the doc team one?
[04:39] <Kyral> Either
[04:39] <Burgundavia> Kyral, what is your wikiname?
[04:39] <Kyral> ChrisPeterman
[04:40] <Burgundavia> I would do a few edits before joining the wiki team
[04:40] <jsgotangco> i'd like to propose bhuvan as well
[04:40] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[04:40] <Kyral> Okay
[04:40] <Burgundavia> for the commit access, send some patches to the list
[04:40] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I had a good talk with Robert Collins about bzr a couple of days ago
[04:40] <Burgundavia> about switching to bzr
[04:40] <Kyral> I've been meening to add onto the PBuilder Howto something about how to have and manage multiple PBuilders
[04:41] <Burgundavia> cool
[04:41] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: oh are you convinced?
[04:41] <jsgotangco> was james black there?
[04:41] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I am moving in that direction
[04:41] <Burgundavia> yes
[04:41] <Burgundavia> today I learned that bzr is going to get a simple command: bzr publish
[04:41] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:41] <Burgundavia> which would push your branch to the supermirror
[04:42] <Burgundavia> then they could tell us about their branch and we could merge it, rather than patches coming in
[04:42] <jsgotangco> i could start a supermirror anytime if we're ready
[04:42] <jsgotangco> well yes
[04:43] <mdke> Kyral, if you're interested in an Install guide, perhaps search the mailing list, i think there have been a few people doing some work in that direction, you could pool resources
[04:43] <Burgundavia> salut mpt 
[04:44] <mdke> and there is obviously a fair amount of work in the repository already
[04:44] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: we can see how it pans out when bzr is done
[04:44] <mdke> dunno what state it's in tho
[04:44] <Kyral> mdke, yea
[04:44] <Kyral> I was thinking of Beginnerizing it (did I just makeup a word?!)
[04:44] <mdke> heh
[04:44] <Kyral> Perhaps pull in Aysiu's work
[04:44] <mdke> Kyral, the best thing would be to write up a spec, and then we can talk about it
[04:45] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, that is my thought as well. I suspect dapper+1 is more doable
[04:45] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: aye, dapper+1 is a reasonable target
[04:48] <Kyral> Specs are made via Launchpad right </Stupid Question>
[04:48] <mdke> not a stupid question
[04:48] <mdke> answer is no
[04:48] <mdke> just make a page on the wiki
[04:48] <Kyral> Ah
[04:49] <mdke> Kyral, see this for an example
[04:49] <mdke>  [15:48:46]  < mdke> just make a page on the wiki
[04:49] <mdke>  [15:48:57]  < Kyral> Ah
[04:49] <mdke>  [15:49:10]  < mdke> Kyral, see this for an example
[04:49] <mdke>  [1:S 2:#ubuntu-doc 3:#ubuntu-it 4:#ubuntu-locoteams 5:#ubuntu-laptop 6:#ubuntu-devel 7:albert 8:#DHCLug]  [mdke(+ei)]                                                      
[04:49] <Kyral> After my little installfest/PotsdamNYLocoTeam Startup thing ;P
[04:49] <mdke>  [DCCs: None]                                                                                                                                                              
[04:49] <mdke>                                                         gah
[04:49] <mdke> i HATE computers
[04:49] <jsgotangco> Kyral: the lp page is used for tracking
[04:49] <Kyral> hehehe
[04:49] <mdke> Kyral, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopGuide
[04:49] <mdke> jsgotangco, it's not used for tracking specs for individual docs
[04:49] <mdke> don't confuse im!
[04:50] <mdke> Kyral, once you've started it, pls link it in the Title area of the table on DocteamProjects in the "Install" section
[04:51] <Kyral> hi hi
[04:52] <jsgotangco> mdke: well i'm not i thought he was asking more into an ubz context, but then again, we're free to use lp to track down our own specs and make our own online sprint if needed :P
[04:52] <mdke> damn obsession with LP specs <grumpy>
[04:53] <jsgotangco> mdke: LP is more fun than Quake4
[04:53] <mdke> really?
[04:54] <jsgotangco> ubuntu-ph uses lp a lot
[04:56] <Burgundavia> we had a discussion last night about if LP needed buy-in from big existing communties to thrive
[04:56] <mdke> heh
[04:56] <Burgundavia> ie, gnome, debian, etc.
[04:56] <mdke> who pulled out the "foot in the door" argument
[04:57] <Burgundavia> jdub basically said that we don't need buyin, LP exists without them and provides value without buyin
[04:58] <mdke> i think LP will eventually show off it's best attributes if a lot of different communities start using it
[04:58] <mdke> but it should be pretty mature before that happens
[04:58] <Burgundavia> yes
[04:58] <mdke> it's/its
[04:58] <Burgundavia> there have been very cool developments in Ubuntu, edubuntu and LP here
[04:58] <mdke> good
[04:59] <Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/sprints/ubz/+specstable
[04:59] <Burgundavia> that lists specs of all types
[05:03] <jdub> mdke: they don't all need to use it directly for it to be valuable to everyone, however
[05:04] <mdke> jdub, i'm sure that is true
[05:04] <mdke> with the caveat that it seems to be causing a few problems for gnome translators
[05:04] <mdke> I was just saying that its value with grow the more communities are using it
[05:05] <mdke> with/will
[05:07] <jsgotangco> mdke: in our experience in ph, we use lp to translate gnome
[05:08] <jsgotangco> we moved all gnome translators to lp
[05:08] <jsgotangco> as well as OOo
[05:13] <mdke> that's quite cool
[05:13] <mdke> if you do that, that stops any problems of people who aren't in gnome translator groups translating gnome upstream
[05:14] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:14] <jsgotangco> we're a relatively small group and we know one another
[05:14] <jsgotangco> that's the strategy we took
[05:14] <jsgotangco> debian stuff we do it upstream
[05:15] <jsgotangco> so we don't touch those apps in lp
[05:15] <mdke> they import into breezy ok?
[05:15] <jsgotangco> dapper is our acid test
[05:16] <jsgotangco> i don't lead the effort, we have one guy who's been doing this for years
[05:16] <jsgotangco> really respected locally
[05:17] <jsgotangco> ill brb
[07:27] <Burgundavia> salut spayne|laptop 
[07:27] <spayne|laptop> hey Burgundavia
[07:27] <spayne|laptop> have i done something wrong Burgundavia?
[07:27] <Burgundavia> nope
[07:27] <Burgundavia> just saying hi
[07:27] <spayne|laptop> yay!
[07:28] <spayne|laptop> how is it going Burgundavia?
[07:28] <Burgundavia> pretty good
[07:28] <Burgundavia> here at UBZ
[07:28] <spayne|laptop> any luck at getting your company over to Ubuntu ?
[07:28] <spayne|laptop> :-)
[07:28] <Burgundavia> nope
[07:28] <spayne|laptop> is it the second week of UBZ now?
[07:28] <Burgundavia> the president said maybe and the chief developer said no
[07:28] <Burgundavia> nope
[07:28] <spayne|laptop> lol
[07:28] <spayne|laptop> Chief Develop = ?
[07:29] <Burgundavia> today is the last day of the distro side
[07:29] <spayne|laptop> President = sabdfl?
[07:29] <Burgundavia> no
[07:29] <Burgundavia> I work for Userful
[07:29] <spayne|laptop> oh right :-)
[07:30] <spayne|laptop> sorry, two conversations crossing
[07:30] <spayne|laptop> what has he got aganst Ubuntu?
[07:30] <spayne|laptop> the chief developer i mean
[07:30] <Burgundavia> no idea
[07:34] <spayne|laptop> what sort of things have been decided at UBZ Burgundavia?
[08:52] <spayne> Burgundavia: i was going to ask, do you use KDE or GNOME?
[09:07] <Burgundavia> spayne, GNOME
[09:07] <highvoltage> hi everyone. how are things?
[09:07] <spayne> Burgundavia, always used GNOME - downloading Kubuntu to see what it is like
[09:08] <highvoltage> seems like kubuntu has been receiving lots of attention lately.
[09:09] <Burgundavia> that is a good thing
[09:09] <Burgundavia> the new ubuntu-express is going to be seperated into a backend and frontend
[09:09] <Burgundavia> so the kubuntu people can have it at the same time
[09:10] <apokryphos> also the recent discussions seem really promising http://www.kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-commitment.php :)
[09:10] <Burgundavia> same with network-manager and the new power management
[09:10] <highvoltage> that's good. i think it should've been like that since the beginning.
[09:10] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:11] <highvoltage> kubuntu is now #9 on distrowatch for last month view. that means 7 out of the 10 top distros are debian based.
[09:12] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:12] <spayne> just never tried KDE for ages
[09:12] <spayne> not since 1998 IIRC which i just dipped my feet with SUSE 7.2
[09:12] <highvoltage> edubuntu is at #48, it surpassed all other education aimed distro's in its first month
[09:13] <Burgundavia> that is criming
[09:13] <Burgundavia> wow, I can type today
[09:13] <Burgundavia> I have no idea what i meant to say
[09:13] <highvoltage> i wish i was using linux in '98. back then i was still using windows full time.
[09:13] <highvoltage> "that is climing"
[09:13] <highvoltage> "wow, I can't type today"
[09:13] <highvoltage> ?
[09:13] <LaserJock> I was a long time KDE user before I moved to Ubuntu
[09:15] <spayne> highvoltage: i still use Windows for some applications
[09:15] <spayne> highvoltage, i have just got CrossOver Office 5
[09:15] <spayne> highvoltage, which looks pretty sweet
[09:15] <spayne> LaserJock, and you changed to GNOME?
[09:17] <highvoltage> i used kde first too, and then GNOME.
[09:17] <highvoltage> it was easier for me to adjust to KDE, being a long-time windows user.
[09:18] <highvoltage> but when i toyed a bit with gnome i got used to it, and found i was more productive in gnome than in kde.
[09:18] <LaserJock> spayne: yes. I wanted to give the whole Gnome thing a chance
[09:18] <LaserJock> spayne: there are some annoyances and some progs that I wish it had but it is really nice all the same
[09:18] <spayne> GNOME just seems a little bland sometimes
[09:19] <highvoltage> spayne: you can spice it up
[09:19] <highvoltage> here are some screenshots of my gnome: http://jonathancarter.co.za/photies/screenshots
[09:19] <LaserJock> spayne: yeah, but I find it to be somewhat less childish and more productive
[09:19] <spayne> highvoltage, possibly, i don't like 'tarty; things
[09:19] <highvoltage> although, there's more that i should upload at some stage.
[09:19] <highvoltage> tarty?
[09:19] <spayne> a british expresson
[09:20] <LaserJock> I have actually grow to like the whole Ubuntu brown Human theme thing
[09:21] <highvoltage> i like blue.
[09:21] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I usually do but the brown has grown on me
[09:21] <highvoltage> i actually customised my ubuntu interface slightly, and my phone's interface slightly, now they look more or less the same.
[09:22] <spayne> my desktop as of 30 seconds ago http://www.evolutionconsultancy.com/~spayne/shots/Desktop-051105.png
[09:24] <spayne> any thoughts?
[09:24] <highvoltage> downloading pic... (slow connection)
[09:27] <mdke> evenin all
[09:27] <LaserJock> spayne: looks pretty cool to me. 
[09:27] <highvoltage> still looks very standard though, not that there's something wrong with that.
[09:27] <highvoltage> at least you don't have 100 icons on your desktop :)
[09:29] <LaserJock> I usually put my tasklist in the top bar so I get more space for my windows
[09:33] <mdke> screenshot time eh
[09:33] <mdke> http://www.mdke.org/images/desktop.png
[09:34] <LaserJock> oh, mdke how boring ;-)
[09:35] <mdke> heh
[09:35] <mdke> i love my defaults
[09:36] <LaserJock> me too
[09:36] <mdke> nice background tho, i saw it on art.u.c
[09:37] <highvoltage> yes, i also think that's of the nicest brown wallpaper i've seen so far.
[09:38] <highvoltage> how so?
[09:38] <Burgundavia> where did you see mdkes desktop
[09:41] <mdke> pah
[09:42] <LaserJock> mdke: the background I like to go with the brown theme is http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=23009
[09:43] <mdke> heh
[09:43] <mdke> nice
[09:43] <mdke> a bit dark for me
[09:43] <Burgundavia> LaserJock, Madpilot uses the same desktop
[09:44] <LaserJock> great minds think alike ;-)
[09:48] <highvoltage> goodnight!
[09:50] <spayne> hey mdke 
[09:53] <spayne> mdke, nice and simple :-)
[10:08] <spayne> Burgundavia: is it true sabdfl uses Kubuntu?
[10:09] <highvoltage> spayne: no :)
[10:09] <robitaille> spayne, he was talking of switching to Kubuntu on his desktop;  not sure if he has done it yet
[10:09] <highvoltage> he's using gnome.
[10:09] <spayne> highvoltage: http://www.kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-commitment.php
[10:10] <highvoltage> i saw that.
[10:10] <spayne> robitaille, wonder what he thinks
[10:10] <robitaille> http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1574
[10:11] <Burgundavia> spayne, hey is switching for the dapper release
[10:11] <Burgundavia> s/hey/he
[10:11] <robitaille> maybe I should try Kubuntu on my 2nd partition on my desktop.  Never been a big KDE fan, but last time I tried KDE was on an older Mandrake
[10:11] <spayne> i tried KDE back on SUSE 7.2 robitaille :-)
[10:11] <spayne> just downloaded Kubuntu
[10:15] <apokryphos> no need for a seperate partition; they can run in harmony quite well
[10:15] <Burgundavia> spayne, he is looking at what polish we can do for kubuntu
[10:16] <spayne> fair enough Burgundavia
[10:16] <Burgundavia> his primary focus is still gnome and ubuntu
[10:16] <robitaille> apokryphos,  I want to test a clean install, away from the default breezy install used by the rest of the family.  It our home desktop :)
[10:16] <apokryphos> he has it on the lappy, and mentioned he's probably switching to kubuntu on the desktop for dapper
[10:16] <LaserJock> spayne: I often use both Gnome and KDE. There really is no reason you have to stick to just one
[10:17] <apokryphos> robitaille: not enough space on there?
[10:17] <apokryphos> LaserJock: definitely
[10:18] <robitaille> apokryphos,  I usually triple-boot on that PC;  Windows/Ubuntu Stable/Ubuntu Unstable.  But I'm thinking of replacing the now unused Hoary partition by Kubuntu.
[10:18] <apokryphos> You can, of course; I'd just find it weird -- I doubt you'd ever do that on another distro. Just that this one has seperate ISOs =)
[10:19] <apokryphos> I always use different partitions for different distros; not for just different DEs :P
[10:19] <LaserJock> I am starting to use chroots more but that doesn't help with testing installers though
[10:28] <apokryphos> s/desktop/lappy/ (and visa versa), above. :-O
[10:36] <mdke> heh
[10:36] <mdke> now mark is saying that he'll use kubuntu, it will become fashionable
[10:40] <apokryphos> mdke: it wasn't already? ;-)
[10:54] <mdke> apokryphos, even more fashionable :)