[02:43] <bumparocky> hello
[02:44] <bumparocky> newbiw question, why is not smbfs part of it?...windows connectivity a must here
[02:46] <bumparocky> great job , though, very impressive...would like freenx technology also
[04:11] <mhz> hi all
[04:13] <dabaR> hi
[07:02] <zakame> hi all
[07:02] <zakame> is ogra around?
[07:03] <crimsun> perhaps, but he may still be in Montreal or enroute home
[07:03] <zakame> hmmm ok :)
[07:03] <Burgundavia> zakame, I think he is travelling right now
[07:04] <Burgundavia> the ltsp guys finished yesterday, if my memory serves me correctly
[07:04] <zakame> anyway, can i request edubuntu cds via shipit?
[07:04] <zakame> Burgundavia: oh
[07:04] <highvoltage> ogra
[07:04] <highvoltage> OGRA
[07:04] <highvoltage> wake uuuuuupp!!!
[07:04] <highvoltage> :)
[07:14] <cafuego_> edubuntu is giving me too much grief!
[07:15] <zakame> how come?
[07:16] <cafuego_> No matter what i do, I can't login via a netbooted client (I got them booting OK now)
[07:17] <cafuego_> Do I need to manually add users in the chroot?
[07:17] <cafuego_> I thought I could ltsp into gdm (xdmcp) back to the server.
[07:23] <Yagisan> cafuego_: on the sever ltsp-update-sshkeys reboot client and try again
[07:30] <cafuego_> Also means I can do it in vmware and not on the crusty P233
[07:32] <cafuego_> Oh, there is a buglet actually, /etc/exports here won't accept * as network/mask.
[07:34] <cafuego_> Hmm, locked. Do any of you have edit access to http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup ?
[10:25] <cafuego_> Yagisan: ... and the people rejoiced. Thankyou :-)
[12:51] <mhz> hi all
[12:51] <mhz> highvoltage, ping
[12:51] <cafuego_> hello ghz (free upgrade)
[12:52] <mhz> hi cafuego_ 
[12:52] <mhz> you left b4 I could get back with the files :)
[12:52] <cafuego_> my hosting provider's uplink died :-(
[12:52] <mhz> oops
[12:52] <cafuego_> Yeh <heh>
[12:52] <cafuego_> it's OK though, got it all working now.
[12:52] <mhz> cafuego_, are you keen on rescuing (rm -rf) data?
[12:53] <cafuego_> mhz; That's why i run rsync every night.
[12:53] <cafuego_> (coz rm -rf is sometimes not your friend)
[12:53] <mhz> me too, except I got confused with domains :(
[12:53] <mhz> and yesterday night i did a lot of work
[12:54] <mhz> which unless I rescue in next 5 minutes, I'd be lost for my talk
[12:54] <cafuego_> isn't the an undelete thingie for ext2?
[12:54] <mhz> hmm, me ignorant on that
[12:55] <mhz> however i do use ext3
[12:55] <cafuego_> http://www.billjonas.com/papers/undeletion.html
[12:57] <cafuego_> try to mount the partitoon with the files read-only ASAP
[01:00] <mhz> cafuego_, glup! I'd betta start rescuing
[01:00] <mhz> thx for the cheering up
[01:23] <highvoltage> bah
[01:59] <highvoltage> anyone seen JaneW around?
[01:59] <highvoltage> edoo: seen JaneW
[02:00] <edoo> JaneW was last seen on #edubuntu 35 years, 321 days, 13 hours, 6 seconds ago, saying: np [Thu Jan  1 01:59:59 1970] 
[02:01] <highvoltage> hmmm...
[02:02] <raphink> lol
[02:02] <highvoltage> i think my small server at home's time is a bit out :)
[02:15] <pips1> highvoltage: hi
[02:15] <highvoltage> hi pips1 
[02:15] <highvoltage> i'm just on my way to a quick meeting at work, talk to you later?
[02:16] <pips1> ok, I take it the next official meeting is 16 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
[02:16] <pips1> ?
[02:50] <mhz> Yagisan: hi there
[02:50] <Yagisan> G'day mhz
[03:08] <jelkner> hi all, anyone here know anything about the new virtual file system?
[03:08] <jelkner> i've done something *very* bad to my hard drive :-(
[03:09] <Yagisan> jelkner: no. What did you do ?
[03:19] <jelkner> Yagisan: here is what i did:
[03:20] <jelkner> 1. i installed edubuntu on a new hard drive
[03:20] <jelkner> 2. for file system configuration, i chose "auto configure with virtual file system"
[03:20] <jelkner> (or something like that)
[03:21] <jelkner> 3. since everything worked, i wanted to get /home copied over from the old system
[03:21] <jelkner> 4. so i put it on the other ide chain, and planed to mount it and copy, like i've done many times in the past
[03:22] <jelkner> 5. but when i went to mount it, i couldn't find the partition (hdc2)
[03:22] <jelkner> 6. when i put it back in the computer as the main drive, grub could no longer find a file system
[03:23] <jelkner> i've got an ubuntu live boot in there now
[03:23] <Yagisan> oh dear
[03:23] <jelkner> yeah!
[03:23] <Yagisan> when you did 2, was the old drive in the pc ?
[03:24] <jelkner> no
[03:24] <Yagisan> I think it should have said LVM on install
[03:24] <jelkner> but it did something to that drive when i booted up the new system with the old system present
[03:24] <jelkner> hold on, let me try fdisk -l and see what i get
[03:25] <jelkner> ok, the new file system is called LVM
[03:25] <Yagisan> Ah, I understand a bit clearer now
[03:26] <Yagisan> I also use lvm (actually lvm over raid)
[03:27] <Yagisan> I'll take a quick look and see what it tried to do when you put a new drive in
[03:27] <Yagisan> did /var/log/syslog have any messages in there related to your hdc2 ?
[03:29] <Yagisan> sudo lvdisplay will give you a list of your lvm partitions (it scans all installed disks IIRC)
[03:30] <Yagisan> sudo lvscan is less verbose
[03:32] <Yagisan> jelkner: do you have gpart on that cd ?
[03:33] <jelkner> i don't know, does the breezy live cd have it?
[03:33] <Yagisan> jelkner: I have no idea, I've never used the live cd, but if not
[03:33] <jelkner> i have the broken drive in the /dev/hda postion
[03:33] <Yagisan> you can download from here http://www.stud.uni-hannover.de/user/76201/gpart/
[03:34] <jelkner> and when i try mount -t ext3 /dev/hda2 it can't find it
[03:34] <jelkner> let me look
[03:34] <Yagisan> run gpart.linux  /dev/hda
[03:35] <Yagisan> does it find your partition table ?
[03:36] <jelkner> i just ran gparted
[03:36] <jelkner> it is a gnome app
[03:36] <jelkner> and it is on the live cd
[03:36] <Yagisan> jelkner: gpart != gparted
[03:36] <jelkner> oh
[03:36] <Yagisan> jelkner: why are the names always so similar
[03:37] <jelkner> gpart doesn't seem to be there
[03:37] <Yagisan> anyway, did gparted show a correct partition table for /dev/hda ?
[03:37] <jelkner> no
[03:37] <Yagisan> oh dear
[03:37] <jelkner> here is what it has:
[03:38] <jelkner> /dev/mapper/casper-snapshot
[03:38] <jelkner> and
[03:39] <jelkner> /dev/mapper/casper-cow
[03:39] <jelkner> this whole /dev/mapper stuff is new to me
[03:39] <Yagisan> jelkner: that looks like the livecd partition table
[03:40] <jelkner> ok, ubuntu live does not mount harddrive partitions without being told
[03:40] <Yagisan> jelkner: don't worry /dev/mapper is a more flexible partition table (when it works)
[03:40] <Yagisan> jelkner: doesn't seem that way
[03:40] <jelkner> i know that it doesn't
[03:41] <jelkner> so how can i make it mount what i think should be /dev/hda
[03:41] <jelkner> s/hda2/hda
[03:41] <magnon> s/hda/hda2/ :)
[03:41] <jelkner> thanks ;-)
[03:42] <jelkner> fdisk /dev/hda says hda can not be found
[03:42] <jelkner> is there an easy way to prob what is available?
[03:42] <Yagisan> dmesg | grep hda
[03:42] <jelkner> hold on, let me try that...
[03:43] <Yagisan> If that produces nothing, double check the cables
[03:44] <Yagisan> on my system I get
[03:44] <Yagisan> [   26.852400]      ide0: BM-DMA at 0xb000-0xb007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio
[03:44] <Yagisan> as the first line of output
[03:45] <Yagisan> second line is
[03:45] <Yagisan> [   27.235047]  hda: ST3200822A, ATA DISK drive
[03:45] <Yagisan> that is the important line
[03:45] <jelkner> yeah, i get something like that:
[03:45] <jelkner> [4294702.837000]   ide0: MB-DMA at ... BIOS settings: hda: pio, hdb, pio
[03:46] <jelkner> now, how can i look at hda to see what the file system table looks like?
[03:46] <Yagisan> jelkner: do you have anything that looks like the second line ? if not I suspect a loose cable
[03:47] <jelkner> dmesg | grep hda only returned one line
[03:47] <Yagisan> before we pull the case off, try  dmesg | grep hdc
[03:48] <Yagisan> it looks like a loose cable, but we will double check it is where we think it is
[03:50] <jelkner> Yagisan: i don't think it is a loose cable
[03:50] <jelkner> i can get to grup
[03:50] <jelkner> s/grup/grub
[03:51] <jelkner> and it can read the menu.lst file
[03:51] <Yagisan> jelkner: That line that dmesg returned indicates the hard drive  isn't on /dev/hda, but you get grub, so it must be on hdb, hdc or hdd
[03:51] <jelkner> but it can't find a file system when you try to load the kernel
[03:51] <jelkner> hold on, let me reboot from the hard drive to get more details
[03:54] <vmarks> morning all.
[03:55] <neurogeek> jelkner, did you solve the idle problem??
[03:55] <neurogeek> Hello all
[03:55] <neurogeek> vmarks, Hi!
[03:56] <jelkner> neurogeek: yes, by reinstalling
[03:56] <jelkner> Yagisan: don't ask me why, but this time, the old system booted properly!
[03:56] <jelkner> yeah!
[03:57] <jelkner> I'm going to burn the home directories onto a cd
[03:57] <jelkner> and install them on the new system that way
[03:57] <jelkner> ok, i've got what i need, thanks!
[03:58] <Yagisan> jelkner: It's a sign, backup now :)
[03:59] <Yagisan> jelkner: glad it's working for you
[03:59] <Yagisan> G'day vmarks, neurogeek
[04:01] <neurogeek> Yagisan, Hello!!
[04:01] <neurogeek> jelkner, good!!
[04:04] <Yagisan> neurogeek, how are you today, I've a had a scorching day today, and it's still 27 degrees celsius at 2am
[04:04] <Yagisan> so I can't sleep :(
[04:06] <jsgotangco> its pretty humid here as well in manila atm
[04:09] <neurogeek> Yagisan, bad to hear that.. in here is pretty hot these days too. Air Conditioning Systems rules
[04:11] <neurogeek> Yagisan, sorry to hear that.. What part of Australia are you in?
[04:11] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: manila, it would be around midnight there ?
[04:11] <Yagisan> neurogeek: Sydney
[04:12] <neurogeek> Yagisan, Good.. i've always wanted to live there
[04:12] <jsgotangco> Yagisan: its only past 11pm
[04:12] <mhz> re
[04:12] <Yagisan> neurogeek: ?? really, it's been interesting the last few days
[04:12] <Yagisan> mhz: wb
[04:13] <jsgotangco> but i'll be sleeping soon I have to be early at work (i just started at a new place)
[04:13] <mhz> Yagisan: how's things going?
[04:13] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: ok then
[04:13] <mhz> jsgotangco: Mr. RH admin
[04:13] <jsgotangco> mhz: it's pretty neat really
[04:13] <Yagisan> mhz: I have some interesting news for you, and I wanted to chat to you about biz
[04:13] <mhz> Yagisan: did you get the urls for TC and Esfera sumup?
[04:14] <mhz> so you did
[04:14] <mhz> :)
[04:14] <Yagisan> mhz: yes, that is part of what I want to chat about
[04:14] <mhz> Yagisan: what time will you log in ? how many more hours?
[04:14] <jsgotangco> biz?
[04:14] <mhz> jsgotangco: you know :D
[04:15] <Yagisan> mhz: it's 27 degrees and 2am, I can't sleep
[04:15] <mhz> hehehehe
[04:15] <mhz> i see
[04:15] <Yagisan> mhz: so I'm up for a while
[04:15] <mhz> Yagisan: but I am solving rm -rf ATM
[04:16] <mhz> and I gotta get ready for a edubuntu demo at a university
[04:16] <Yagisan> mhz: It's what 12:15 in Santiago now (you are in Santiago right ?)
[04:16] <mhz> yup
[04:16] <mhz> so, I'll be leaving anytime soon 
[04:16] <mhz> therefore, could it be either email or lets' meet in XYZ hours?
[04:18] <Yagisan> mhz: ok, perhaps email is better. I need to take my wife to hospital for a checkup today
[04:18] <Yagisan> she is due in 10 days
[04:18] <mhz> WOW!!!
[04:18] <Yagisan> and I won't be back until late afternoot my time
[04:18] <Yagisan> s/afternoot/afternoon
[04:18] <mhz> that is X PM?
[04:19] <mhz> (+ -)
[04:21] <Yagisan> mhz, looking http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?day=10&month=11&year=2005&p1=240&p2=232&p3=-1&p4=-1
[04:21] <Yagisan> is 10pm my time 8am your time good ?
[04:22] <mhz> 22:30 could be betta :D
[04:22] <mhz> is it ok 4u?
[04:22] <Yagisan> mhz: I'm flexible between 10pm and 1am my time
[04:23] <mhz> hihihi
[04:24] <symbulos> hi si juliux there?
[04:24] <symbulos> juliux: are you online?
[04:24] <symbulos> ops, away
[04:25] <mhz> Yagisan: cool, then. 22:30 (8:30 my time, tomorrow)?
[04:25] <Yagisan> mhz: yes
[04:25] <mhz> cool
[04:25] <mhz> and if you want you can still pre-tell me via mail
[04:26] <Yagisan> mhz: I just noted that in my diary, will be there, and If I have time, I'll send a prelim email
[04:26] <mhz> educool\
[04:26] <Yagisan> mhz: see you tommorow
[04:26] <mhz> bye then and hope good news from hostpital :D
[04:27] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: you are a RH admin ?
[04:28] <jsgotangco> at work yes, i'm taking the rhce exam next month
[04:28] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: you poor thing ;)
[04:28] <Yagisan> brb
[04:29] <jsgotangco> Yagisan: it'll kill my contribution output for sure
[04:35] <Yagisan> false alarm
[04:37] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: just standard sys-admin or network admin work ?
[04:38] <highvoltage> ogra: hi there
[04:38] <highvoltage> hi Yagisan 
[04:38] <highvoltage> should http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/StepByStepLtspSetup be on our documentation page?
[04:38] <ogra> hey highvoltage 
[04:39] <highvoltage> it explains how to install ltsp.org on Ubuntu, I think it might be confusing to people.
[04:39] <ogra> eeek !
[04:39] <ogra> wipe it please
[04:39] <jsgotangco> Yagisan: a little of both, and a little more on game concepts
[04:39] <highvoltage> i'll remove it from the documentation page, i think hno73 is the only one who can delete pages.
[04:39] <ogra> it will break heavily if you run ltspadmin on top of edubuntu
[04:40] <bluefrog-10> and the way it is it won't work straight on 5.10 either
[04:41] <Yagisan> G'day highvoltage
[04:41] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: games ? lucky you
[04:42] <jsgotangco> Yagisan: it only looks cool to work on computer games, in reality it can be hell
[04:43] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: In my spare time I maintain a game for Ubuntu - I know it can be hell
[04:43] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: but you get paid for it
[04:44] <Yagisan> highvoltage: yeah that page is definitely in the wrong spot
[04:45] <highvoltage> a question i'm going to ask here and on -doc as well...
[04:45] <jsgotangco> can anyone please take time to review what's in the Cookbook, i'm afraid my schedule won't accomodate it anymore for dapper
[04:45] <highvoltage> it's the best option to use the ubuntu doc team for ubuntu and edubuntu, right?
[04:46] <highvoltage> or would it be better to have a subteam of the docteam for edubuntu-doc?
[04:46] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: i dont think anyone in the docteam is interested in edubuntu at all 
[04:48] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: do you feel that a sub-group would be better, or should we encourage everyone who wants to work on edubuntu-doc to join the main docteam?
[04:49] <jsgotangco> i think educators are better like mhz
[04:50] <highvoltage> ok, it might make things easier to manage. the subgroup will be part of the doc-team on launchpad, so people will indirectly be part of ubuntu-doc.
[04:51] <highvoltage> ogra: do you know who https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-graywolfcomputers is?
[04:51] <highvoltage> he started a team called LTSPUbuntu.
[04:51] <highvoltage> has he been involved in the Ubuntu LTSP implementation / do you know who he is?
[04:52] <ogra> he is one of the ltsp.org guys, i see he is in #ltsp
[04:52] <ogra> so this seems fine to me...
[04:52] <ogra> i'll join his team... since i'll become upstream for ubuntu ltsp soon, matt will hand it over to me
[04:53] <Yagisan> ogra: excellent, and I know just where to find you hahahahaha
[04:53] <ogra> heh
[04:54] <highvoltage> ogra: cool.
[04:54] <ogra> first let me become familiar with bzr ... since we also switch from bazaar for this tree
[04:54] <highvoltage> i'll join ltsp too.
[04:54] <ogra> you are already member
[04:54] <ogra> at least the team page ays so
[04:54] <Yagisan> ogra: Lets start by getting rid of that foolish idea that thin clients don't need restricted modules
[04:54] <highvoltage> i meant #ltsp :)
[04:54] <highvoltage> sorry.
[04:55] <ogra> ah :)
[04:55] <highvoltage> ogra: i'm happy that you're taking over the ltsp part, just because you're more accessable than mdz
[04:56] <ogra> yes, that's the reason...
[04:56] <Yagisan> ogra: I'm also interested in the team, but I freely admit I'm not much of a coder
[04:56] <ogra> he just has to much other stuff to do... he'll still review the patches though
[04:56] <highvoltage> ogra: oh yes, you were away... I'm also now an Ubuntu member.
[04:56] <ogra> highvoltage, i read the report on -devel today, congrats
[04:58] <highvoltage> thanks :)
[04:58] <Yagisan> highvoltage: congratulations (my digest must be delayed, I haven't seen it yet)
[04:58] <highvoltage> thanks, Yagisan 
[04:59] <highvoltage> edoo: hola
[04:59] <edoo> hi there, highvoltage!
[05:00] <pitux> join #Comos
[05:00] <Yagisan> ogra: are you seriously removing restricted modules from the clients to save ram ?
[05:01] <highvoltage> why does the thin clients need restricted modules?
[05:02] <Yagisan> highvoltage: I like having 3d acceleration on my clients, but restricted also has firmware
[05:02] <Yagisan> highvoltage: which makes things work
[05:02] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:03] <Yagisan> highvoltage: on hoary, restricted modules where on disk, in breezy they are in tmpfs
[05:03] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: goodnight
[05:03] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: goodnight
[05:03] <highvoltage> ah.
[05:03] <Yagisan> highvoltage: so now restricted is needlessly using up ram
[05:04] <Yagisan> highvoltage: and I have no idea why that was thought to be a good idea
[05:04] <ogra> highvoltage, see the thin client specs we worked out at ubz (not fifshed yet) they talk about things like restricted modules
[05:04] <ogra> Yagisan, for normal systems thats fine ...
[05:05] <highvoltage> ah, ok. well, reducing the number of restricted modules in thin clients will certainly help?
[05:05] <ogra> but on thin clients its pretty useles to have them installed by default
[05:05] <Yagisan> yes, but thin clients aren't normal, there thin
[05:05] <highvoltage> i mean, ipw2200 firmware is probably never needed in thin clients.
[05:05] <ogra> we'll wipe them completely
[05:06] <ogra> who thinks he needs a nvidia or ati binary driver can still install them later
[05:07] <ogra> isdn will never be used on a thin client and as long as we dont support wlan we wont need the other modules
[05:07] <Yagisan> ogra: isn't there a proposal for wireless ltsp
[05:07] <Yagisan> ?
[05:07] <ogra> nope
[05:07] <ogra> there are several whishes....
[05:08] <ogra> but you'll need at least 16MB for a working bootimage ... (the initramfs is huge)
[05:08] <ogra> so bootfloppies wont work for example
[05:09] <Yagisan> ogra: and that is why $DEITY created rom-o-matic
[05:09] <ogra> there is no wlan support for rom-o-matic images afaik
[05:09] <ogra> not even pcmcia 
[05:10] <ogra> s/for/from/
[05:11] <highvoltage> i think it will be safe to increase the thin client minimum spec to 64MB soon. 
[05:12] <highvoltage> people really shouldn't implement pc's that so old that they have less than that at this stage.
[05:12] <ogra> nopr
[05:12] <ogra> e
[05:12] <ogra> we just agreed on 32MB
[05:13] <highvoltage> i think it's a good target
[05:13] <ogra> so the default setup must run on 32MB ... which will cost u a lot... but all the ltsp people seemed to agree with jelkners approach
[05:14] <ogra> i'd just have set the spec to 64MB.... since we'll never be able to support 32MN *and* local devices
[05:14] <Yagisan> well, non-ubuntu ltsp boots and runs in 32MB
[05:14] <ogra> but that doesnt use hal and udev for automagic hotplugging for example
[05:15] <ogra> if these two have to run on the client we'll nee more than 32MB
[05:15] <ogra> oh, and dbus indeed
[05:15] <highvoltage> i think you'll have memory challenges with xdmcp as well if you want to do local deviced effeciently. there's just no way around it, afaict.
[05:16] <Yagisan> memory compression anyone ?
[05:16] <ogra> we will never suport xdmcp in a default install
[05:16] <ogra> Yagisan, what solition are there ? i havent seen anything in this area yet
[05:17] <Yagisan> ogra: I remember seeing a compressed cacheing solution awhile ago
[05:18] <ogra> hmm...
[05:18] <ogra> might be quite CPU intensive i imagine
[05:19] <highvoltage> i vaguely remember something like that too,
[05:19] <highvoltage> but i think it booted from local memory, and then got the user environment remotely.
[05:19] <highvoltage> so i don't think it needed as much memory as ltsp.
[05:19] <Yagisan> whitepaper here http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Sumit_Roy/publications/ipdps01.pdf
[05:21] <ogra> eeek
[05:21] <ogra> thats using swap
[05:22] <ogra> wont work in a thin client solution... if you swap you have lost
[05:22] <ogra> swap should only be used as fallback so the client doesnt crash if it runs out of mem
[05:23] <highvoltage> i like the concept of compressed memory.
[05:23] <ogra> but if you swap during normal usage the systwm becomes unusable
[05:23] <highvoltage> assuming you're swapping over the network.
[05:23] <highvoltage> what if it swaps to compressed ram?
[05:23] <highvoltage> surely that should be faster?
[05:24] <Yagisan> this looks similar http://www.research.ibm.com/servertechnologies/MXT.html but may be hardware
[05:24] <highvoltage> although, on 32MB there's probably not much you can do.
[05:24] <highvoltage> if you run out, you run out or swap externaly.
[05:25] <ogra> this implementation uses the swap device for compressing... so you have read/write operations on the networked swap device ...
[05:25] <highvoltage> ah i see.
[05:25] <ogra> which is slow as hell no matter how hard you compress
[05:25] <highvoltage> yes :/
[05:26] <ogra> and compressing the main memory wont work without heav intrusive kernel changes
[05:26] <ogra> which is nothing we can do in dapper ...
[05:26] <ogra> dapper is due o be the most conservative ubuntu release ever
[05:27] <Yagisan> closest I can find atm is http://www.kerneltraffic.org/kernel-traffic/kt20030428_214.html#11
[05:28] <Yagisan> so linking the clients to ulibc is out of the question ?
[05:28] <ogra> whats ulibc ? 
[05:28] <ogra> we use klibc
[05:29] <Yagisan> a typo. should ub uclibc
[05:29] <Yagisan> http://www.uclibc.org/
[05:29] <highvoltage> ogra: will dapper be more conservative to focus on quality and testing?
[05:30] <Yagisan> just import debian's i386-uclibc port, and rebrand it as the thin client debootstrap script
[05:30] <ogra> highvoltage, yes, we have to support this release for 5 years...
[05:30] <Yagisan> instant shrink of all apps that use libc
[05:30] <highvoltage> oooh, I see.
[05:30] <ogra> that means a month less development time, earlier freezes and more time for bugfixes
[05:31] <ogra> Yagisan, i doubt thats feasable for dapper
[05:31] <ogra> but i'll have a look
[05:31] <Yagisan> ah, but it is interesting isn't it.
[05:31] <ogra> yup
[05:32] <ogra> they were fun
[05:33] <ogra> except the local device stuff that was very hard to get specced... (we had a guy there who was very pedantic, was not real fun to have discussions there)
[05:33] <Yagisan> Is he in the ltsp-3110.ogg ? I watched that today
[05:35] <ogra> he ?
[05:35] <ogra> oh, nope, thats scotty
[05:35] <ogra> he is fine and fun to work with...
[05:35] <ogra> as all the ltsp guys
[05:35] <jelkner> Yagisan: or highvoltage: can i ask another question?
[05:36] <Yagisan> ok. I missed the ltsp guys in Sydney, so I have no idea who is who
[05:36] <Yagisan> jelkner: yep, but I'll be in bed soon
[05:36] <jelkner> i need a bit of help getting idle to work
[05:36] <jelkner> apparently, it binds to a tcp port
[05:37] <jelkner> so the first person who launches it can run it, but everyone after that fails
[05:38] <Yagisan> jelkner: I'm sorry, I have no idea what idle is. And from your description, it doesn't do what it's name suggests
[05:38] <jelkner> ogra: should i file an edubuntu bug on this?
[05:38] <highvoltage> jelkner: i know what idle is, but i don't know how to get around that.
[05:38] <jelkner> Yagisan: idle is the default python IDE
[05:39] <Yagisan> jelkner: I didn't know that, I thought with a name like that it would be used for spinning down disks (sounds like a powersaving app)
[05:40] <highvoltage> hehe
[05:40] <ogra> jelkner, ??
[05:40] <jelkner> Yagisan: like much in the Python world, it is a joke on Eric Idle
[05:40] <ogra> jelkner, idle is *a* python ide...
[05:40] <ogra> its not installed by default
[05:41] <ogra> jelkner, file a bugzilla bug for it
[05:41] <jelkner> ogra: but it is an edubuntu issue
[05:41] <jelkner> not an ubuntu one
[05:42] <jelkner> i think?
[05:42] <jelkner> the problem is idle wants to bind to a tcp port
[05:42] <jelkner> so the first one to connect to it can, but everyone else can't
[05:43] <Yagisan> jelkner: ubuntu/kubuntu/edubuntu are the same base system, the difference is what is on the cd, and what is installed by default
[05:43] <ogra> jelkner, idle bugs are not edubuntu related 
[05:43] <jelkner> ogra: i need to get some kind of usable, stable, python development environment going soon
[05:43] <jelkner> ogra: what can i do?
[05:44] <jelkner> all the wxpython tools have the mouse bug
[05:44] <ogra> jelkner, file a bug in bugzilla against idle
[05:44] <jelkner> so drpython and spe are not good choices
[05:44] <jelkner> and now idle doesn't work either
[05:45] <Yagisan> what is wrong with using $EDITOR to write python code ?
[05:46] <jelkner> Yagisan: like gedit, perhaps?
[05:46] <Yagisan> I wasn't allowed to use an ide for programming at uni to prove I actually could write code
[05:46] <jelkner> well, it is too slow to change, run, change, run
[05:46] <Yagisan> yes, eg gedit
[05:47] <jelkner> Yagisan: my goal is not to be "hard core", but rather inclusive
[05:47] <jelkner> i'm not trying to seperate the men from the boys, but to include everyone
[05:47] <jelkner> i want things to be easy for them
[05:47] <highvoltage> jelkner: i think your approach is right
[05:47] <Yagisan> jelkner: just a thought if you don't find an ide you like in time for when you need it
[05:47] <jelkner> so as many students as possible can be exposed to programming
[05:47] <ogra> jelkner, how about goby ?
[05:48] <ogra> *gobby
[05:48] <highvoltage> jelkner: running python from a terminal is also quite friendly enough for teaching.
[05:48] <jelkner> ogra: what idle gives you is scripting and the shell integrated
[05:49] <Yagisan> jelkner: I wish my uni teachers wanted to be inclusive, but that's off topic
[05:49] <jelkner> so you can be working on a script, press <f5> and your code is loaded into the shell's namespace
[05:49] <Yagisan> anyway it's almost 4am, so I need to go to bed
[05:49] <jelkner> Yagisan: thanks for your help!
[05:49] <jelkner> goodnight
[05:49] <Yagisan> Night all, and I'll most likely see you tomorrow
[05:50] <jelkner> highvoltage: yes, but it makes scripting more ackward
[05:51] <jelkner> anyway, i want idle to work
[05:51] <highvoltage> jelkner: i'm interested, what do you use to teach?
[05:51] <highvoltage> do you have python curriculum?
[05:52] <jelkner> highvoltage: i'm working on the second edition of "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with Python"
[05:52] <jelkner> and I'm using that
[05:52] <jelkner> but mostly as a resource
[05:53] <jelkner> i try to make the class as project based as possible
[05:53] <jelkner> less talking, more doing
[05:53] <highvoltage> nice.
[05:53] <highvoltage> i made a guide in 2003
[05:53] <jelkner> cool, can i see it?
[05:53] <highvoltage> let me re-phrase, I started with a guide in 2003, but had many distractions since then.
[05:53] <highvoltage> sure, i'm uploading it now.
[05:55] <highvoltage> jelkner: here it is: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/JonathanCarter/Python
[05:55] <highvoltage> it's rougher than it should be to be at all useful, but it might give you a few ideas.
[05:55] <jelkner> highvoltage: give me a few moments to report this bug, then i'll get back to you..
[05:55] <highvoltage> when i did that, i did it with grade 5+ in mind.
[05:55] <highvoltage> ok.
[06:01] <highvoltage> edoo: logs for wiki.edubuntu
[06:01] <edoo> #edubuntu Tue, 8 Nov, 17:26: <Yagisan> Burgundavia: No, check history on http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
[06:01] <edoo> #edubuntu Tue, 8 Nov, 21:59: <bluefrog-10> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDocumentation/BootingClientsWithoutPxe
[06:01] <edoo> #edubuntu Tue, 8 Nov, 23:53: <\sh> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunity
[06:01] <edoo> #edubuntu Wed, 9 Nov, 08:33: <cafuego_> Hmm, locked. Do any of you have edit access to http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup ?
[06:01] <edoo> #edubuntu Wed, 9 Nov, 18:55: <highvoltage> jelkner: here it is: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/JonathanCarter/Python
[06:11] <jelkner> ogra: i had submitted the bug (#18714) on 31-10-2005, but it still said, "unconfirmed"
[06:12] <ogra> so find someone who uses idle to confirm it ...
[06:13] <ogra> additionally these are two totally unrelated bugs
[06:14] <juliux> re
[06:14] <ogra> one is a bug in tkinter (the first one) and the other is actually idle related it seems
[06:14] <ogra> and the tkinter bug seems to be a missing dependency in ubuntu ...
[06:14] <ogra> neither of them is edubuntu related
[06:15] <ogra> jelkner, try to install xrgb and see if the first one goes away
[06:17] <jelkner> ogra: starting with idle -n would do the trick
[06:18] <jelkner> i don't understand why idle wants to connect to a port, but the problem is that each instance wants to connect to the same port
[06:19] <jelkner> ogra: my concern, of course, is getting edubuntu to the point where teaching high school cs works "out of the box"
[06:19] <jelkner> it doesn't now
[06:20] <jelkner> ogra: what is xrgb supposed to do?
[06:20] <ogra> installing rgb.txt which contains the rgb color mappings
[06:20] <jelkner> is there a problem with the color mappings?
[06:20] <jelkner> i never reported that
[06:21] <ogra> thats why xorg-common depends on it, it didnt do that during the development version
[06:21] <ogra> its the core of your bugreport
[06:21] <jelkner> that was my old bug report
[06:21] <jelkner> which was the problem i had with the prerelease install of edubuntu
[06:21] <ogra> which number is your new one under then ?
[06:22] <jelkner> hmm... i think i did the wrong thing
[06:22] <jelkner> i didn't file a new one, since it was still a "idle won't start" problem
[06:22] <jelkner> but i guess a new one is called for, yes?
[06:23] <ogra> yes, you added a bugreport with edubuntu in its neam which has noting to do with edubuntu is the first problem
[06:23] <ogra> the second was to just add a followup to this bug for a unrelated other bug
[06:23] <ogra> yes
[06:24] <jelkner> ogra: i'm sorry for the mess ups, oliver, but i'm just a simple man, and i make simple mistakes
[06:24] <ogra> thats why you should be more descriptive in the subject line ... "idle doesnt start" is not a good short description
[06:24] <jelkner> ok, but i didn't know what to put
[06:24] <jelkner> i hope launchpad makes this easier
[06:24] <jelkner> i'm new to bug reporting, as i'm sure many other people will be
[06:25] <ogra> "idle fails becuse it cant find the color black" would directly have become a duplicate of an xrgb bug
[06:25] <jelkner> ahh
[06:25] <ogra> launchpad doesnt make the subject clearer, thats up to you
[06:25] <ogra> try to be as descriptive as you can in the subject...
[06:25] <jelkner> but a good system will have integrated help, that teaches new users to use the system
[06:26] <ogra> so a new bugreport should be: "idle can't bind TCP/IP port 8833"
[06:26] <jelkner> what to do now
[06:26] <ogra> thats short but describes the core of the problem...
[06:26] <jelkner> ?
[06:26] <jelkner> i can file the new report
[06:26] <jelkner> and remove the comment from the old one
[06:26] <ogra> file a new bug with the above description
[06:27] <ogra> does the color problem still occur for you in the final release ? 
[06:27] <jelkner> no
[06:27] <jelkner> so this is an example of the upgrade process not doing something right
[06:28] <ogra> so i'll close this one then... and you can just file a new one for the new prob :)
[06:28] <ogra> nope
[06:28] <jelkner> ok
[06:28] <jelkner> nope?
[06:28] <ogra> thats normal in a development cycle...
[06:28] <jelkner> ahh
[06:28] <ogra> the problem was fixed in the final release....
[06:29] <jelkner> how will upgrading to dapper work?
[06:29] <ogra> its just that noone saw the relation of your bug to xrgb, so it was never closed when xrgb was fixed
[06:29] <ogra> the same
[06:29] <jelkner> ahh
[06:29] <jelkner> the same?
[06:29] <ogra> you change the repositorys and upgrade your system ;)
[06:29] <jelkner> lol i know that!
[06:29] <ogra> as it worked from wart to hoary and from hoary to breezy...
[06:30] <ogra> *warty
[06:30] <jelkner> what i'm asking is this:  i have several edubuntu breezy sites set up
[06:30] <jelkner> i will want them using dapper as soon as possible
[06:30] <jelkner> but from the sound of it, i should wait until the official release
[06:30] <ogra> you shouldnt do that in a production environment 
[06:31] <jelkner> shouldn't do what?
[06:31] <jelkner> run the prerelease, or upgrade?
[06:31] <ogra> upgrade to unstable releases
[06:31] <ogra> things can break all the time, thats development
[06:31] <jelkner> but upgrading to the final release will work, yes?
[06:31] <ogra> sure
[06:31] <jelkner> i understand
[06:32] <jelkner> you mentioned something about having to chroot
[06:32] <ogra> it will also work to the development release, but you might find strange bugs that make working impossible
[06:32] <jelkner> ok, i have things working now
[06:32] <ogra> so dont do it in production systems :)
[06:33] <ogra> you can either chroot or rebuild the chroot environment....
[06:33] <jelkner> the only problem is, ogra, in the environment in which i'm working, all the systems are production systems
[06:33] <ogra> i would recommend the latter since we'll make some heavy changes to the chroot
[06:33] <ogra> thats why i said that :)
[06:34] <ogra> set up a testing system to play around ;)
[06:34] <jelkner> i have a removable hard drive that i can use to swap in a testing system
[06:34] <ogra> but dont play with the patience of your users if they have strange development related bugs all the time, they will be upset
[06:35] <jelkner> i understand
[06:35] <jelkner> but i try to find the adventurouse students to help in the testing
[06:35] <jelkner> i warn them that things will break
[06:35] <jelkner> but if i don't let them bang on the system, i can't really test it
[06:35] <ogra> true... 
[06:36] <jelkner> anyway, i mentioned the small environment with only four brave students using the system
[06:36] <ogra> but for example if i change things on ltsp you will always have to rebuild the chroot...
[06:37] <jelkner> is there a how to on that?
[06:37] <ogra> and things in the chroot might be broken heavily... it will see very intrusive changes (you were there in the BOFs :) )
[06:37] <jelkner> yeah, i won't touch it for about 8 weeks, yes?
[06:37] <ogra> i'll write one as soon as we have the first changes
[06:37] <jelkner> at that point dapper will be ready to begin testing, yes?
[06:38] <jelkner> since all new features will be in
[06:38] <ogra> then there might still be bugs... bugs consist the whole release cycle
[06:38] <jelkner> but aren't we testing to try to find bugs?
[06:38] <ogra> all feature means also more beakage
[06:38] <ogra> in 8 weeks the fixing begins
[06:38] <jelkner> so the testing begins, yes?
[06:39] <ogra> around prerelease the testing should be 50/50 
[06:39] <ogra> before things might be broken heavily
[06:39] <jelkner> i'll let you be my guide on when i should begin testing...
[06:39] <ogra> yup
[06:40] <ogra> i'll make a call on the mailing list and provide a wikipage with instructions
[06:42] <jelkner> ok, bug #19429 is filed
[06:42] <ogra> great
[06:42] <jelkner> one other thing to ask about
[06:42] <jelkner> we have a bug (and this time, i think it really is an edubuntu bug ;-) over at hb-woodlawn
[06:43] <jelkner> whenever a user tries to logout, the session freezes
[06:43] <ogra> that rather sounds like a ltsp bug
[06:43] <ogra> which in turn is a ubuntu feature ...
[06:44] <jelkner> when i say edubuntu, i mean ubuntu ltsp
[06:44] <jelkner> should i stop doing that?
[06:44] <ogra> edubuntu bugs are bugs related to the educational software we provide, edubuntu metapackages or bugs in the installer changes i made
[06:45] <ogra> so everything thats not in ubuntu but edubuntu 
[06:45] <jelkner> so moo-cow bugs are not part of that
[06:45] <ogra> yup
[06:45] <ogra> they are plain ubuntu ltsp bugs
[06:45] <jelkner> thanks, that clears things up
[06:45] <ogra> the distinct use of a package in edubuntu makes a bug an edubuntu bug
[06:46] <ogra> s/distinct/exclusive
[06:46] <jelkner> how can you install moo-cow without edubuntu?
[06:46] <ogra> there is a thin client howto anywhere on the wiki...
[06:47] <ogra> but beware, many users added strange comments so the instructionsa might be wrong or broken
[06:47] <jelkner> yes, and there are docs which refer to installing the old ltsp
[06:47] <ogra> nope
[06:47] <ogra> not these
[06:47] <jelkner> hold on...
[06:47] <ogra> they will get deleted as soon as we can, they created a lot of confusion
[06:48] <jelkner> good
[06:48] <ogra> like the packaging bug you discovered in ltsp-server ;)
[06:49] <jelkner> is that fixed?
[06:49] <ogra> nope
[06:49] <ogra> i will fix it in my first upload... but i have some other tasks to do before i can work on ltsp
[06:50] <ogra> especially converting the archive from bazaar to baz and convince my contributors for ltsp to do the same
[06:50] <ogra> before i cant do any packaging
[06:51] <jelkner> i understand, my only concern is that i'll be working with the folks at citi to setup those five labs soon
[06:52] <jelkner> and in one of those labs, we have clients with 32 megs of RAM
[06:52] <ogra> it doesnt harm anything, its just a wrong dependency
[06:52] <ogra> ah, k
[06:52] <jelkner> so i'm thinking classic ltsp is the way to go there
[06:52] <ogra> then just install the classic ltsp
[06:52] <ogra> so just install ltsp-utils and you have everything you need
[06:53] <jelkner> got it
[06:53] <ogra> for the rest i have to refer you to the lrsp docs, i never instralled classic ltsp
[06:53] <ogra> s/lrsp/ltsp
[06:54] <jelkner> as long as there are going to be 2 versions, it would be helpful to clear up the naming conventions
[06:54] <jelkner> do you like calling the old one "classic ltsp"?
[06:54] <jelkner> and what should moo-cow be called that clearly distinguishes it?
[06:55] <ogra> it wont matter anymore... ltsp-utils will be demoted to universe in dapper anyway
[06:55] <jelkner> it still will matter
[06:55] <highvoltage> i'm surprised that it's in breezy's main.
[06:56] <ogra> moo-cow will not go into ubuntu... its feastures will be included in ubuntu ltsp, thats why we worked on the specs together
[06:56] <jelkner> if we find there are circumstances where it is still needed (like low end clients), then i will still want to document it on the wiki
[06:56] <jelkner> and i don't want to cause confusion
[06:57] <ogra> you were there when we made the specs...
[06:57] <jelkner> yes?
[06:57] <ogra> no need for classic ltsp anymore ...
[06:57] <ogra> ubuntu ltsp will support 32MB
[06:57] <jelkner> in dapper, you mean
[06:58] <ogra> yes
[06:58] <jelkner> there still is now
[06:58] <ogra> now, use the ltsp docs
[06:58] <jelkner> fair enough
[06:58] <ogra> they apply for the classic ltsp
[06:59] <ogra> and to get all the tools you need for classic, just install ltsp-utils :)
[06:59] <jelkner> let me make one more comment and i'll let you be ;-)
[07:00] <jelkner> i've noticed that breezy does not install on lots of older machines
[07:00] <jelkner> something to do with the cdrom drives
[07:01] <ogra> there i can only refer you to Kamion
[07:01] <jelkner> i keep wondering if it is possible to be all things to all computers in one distro
[07:01] <ogra> i'm not deep into installer stuff
[07:01] <ajmitch_> hi
[07:01] <ogra> hey ajmitch_ 
[07:01] <ogra> home already ?
[07:01] <highvoltage> jelkner: what kind of old machines?
[07:01] <ajmitch_> how are you?
[07:01] <ajmitch_> no, in the US
[07:01] <ogra> tired
[07:01] <jelkner> i'm not looking for a solution to this (i just use debian stable), but trying to make a general point
[07:01] <ogra> *very* 
[07:01] <highvoltage> some old bioses just can't boot newer cd's.
[07:02] <ajmitch_> :)
[07:02] <ogra> jelkner, yes, but i cant help here at al
[07:02] <ajmitch_> ogra: you need to take a holiday "_
[07:02] <ajmitch_> .ca, perhaps
[07:02] <ogra> ajmitch_, only 8 weeks :)
[07:02] <jelkner> ogra: i understand, i'm not asking you to
[07:02] <ogra> i'll take my holiday after feature freeze ;)
[07:02] <ajmitch_> heh
[07:02] <jelkner> but this will be an issue for ubuntu ltsp, even in dapper
[07:03] <jelkner> i'm saying i'm not sure it will be so easy to get it to work with older machines
[07:03] <jelkner> since that is not an ubuntu focus
[07:03] <jelkner> but is necessary in edubuntu
[07:03] <ogra> you wont have old machins as servers, they wont be able to fulfill the basic requirementsd
[07:03] <jelkner> ok, i'll drop this for now until i get a concrete case
[07:03] <jelkner> i'm just thinking we will find times when older clients don't work
[07:04] <ogra> you dont need the installer on old machines
[07:04] <ogra> and CD roms will be supported by the installed kernel/udev...
[07:05] <jelkner> and if that kernel doesn't work with the older clients?
[07:05] <ogra> the problem with the installer are certain driverse some old CD roms need
[07:05] <ogra> s/driverse/drivers
[07:05] <ogra> which are not included in the installer,m but in the installed kernel
[07:06] <jelkner> i need to leave for my next class, but i'm eager to begin testing dapper with old clients as soon as you think it is ready
[07:06] <jelkner> i've got plenty of old clients around, and it is a very important use case
[07:06] <ogra> will still take some weeks to have the first stuff to test for you :)
[07:06] <jelkner> yes, i know
[07:07] <jelkner> so let me be quite now and let you take care of more important things! ;-)
[07:07] <jelkner> i'll talk to you later...
[07:08] <jelkner> (and i'll file that ltsp bug today)
[07:08] <jelkner> on bugzilla
[07:08] <jelkner> cya
[07:10] <ogra> hmm, i really doubt http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19429 is a bug, he should do as the message says and read the help ...
[07:17] <highvoltage> i haven't seen the error message he sees.
[07:19] <ogra> me neither ...
[07:46] <highvoltage> ah, there it is on his ticket "Run
[07:46] <highvoltage> ah, there it is on his ticket "IDLE with the -n command line switch
[07:46] <highvoltage> to start without a subprocess and refer
[07:46] <highvoltage> to Help/IDLE Help 'Running without a
[07:46] <highvoltage> subprocess' for further details."
[07:54] <Snderfox> hi
[07:55] <Snderfox> anyone here familiar with SchoolTool ?
[07:55] <[cyb3rM4N] > hi
[08:05] <highvoltage> Snderfox: i've played with it before, but if you need very specific help, you might need to try #schooltool
[08:06] <Snderfox> k
[08:06] <Snderfox> highvoltage: I can't find the default user and pass
[08:09] <highvoltage> i think the username is "manager" and the password is "schooltool"
[08:10] <Snderfox> k, I'll try
[08:10] <Snderfox> tnx
[08:10] <Snderfox> :)
[08:12] <highvoltage> edoo: schooltool.password is <reply> Schooltools default username is "manager", and the password is "schooltool"
[08:12] <edoo> highvoltage: okay
[08:18] <[cyb3rM4N] > zzzZZZZzzz...
[08:19] <highvoltage> [cyb3rM4N] : sleepy?
[08:20] <[cyb3rM4N] > yes, i am from brazil...
[09:03] <juliux> hi ogra 
[09:17] <francoisb> Bonjour, j'avais demand conseil pour un problme de clavier QWERTY sur les clients LTSP
[09:18] <francoisb> J'ai test l'adresse propose : http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPClientKeymap
[09:18] <francoisb> Cela fonctionne trs bien, merci beaucoup.
[09:22] <francoisb> Autre question : Existe-t-il un programme qui permette d'diter une image iso de Edubuntu pour ajouter un "language-pack"?
[09:26] <bluefrog-10> je pense que tu pourrais copier l'iso sur le disque dur, puis inserer ton pack (sans oublier les dependances) et ensuite refaire l'iso
[09:27] <francoisb> Oui, mais le gestionnaire d'archive est en lecture seule
[09:28] <bluefrog-10> tu crees un dir la ou tu as de la place
[09:28] <bluefrog-10> mkdir /home/test
[09:28] <bluefrog-10> mkdir /mnt/iso
[09:29] <bluefrog-10> mount -o loop file.iso /mnt/iso
[09:29] <bluefrog-10> cd /mnt/iso
[09:29] <ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallCDCustomizationHowTo
[09:29] <ogra> ;)
[09:29] <bluefrog-10> tar c . | tar x -C /home/test
[09:29] <bluefrog-10> cool
[09:29] <francoisb> Wonderful!
[09:30] <ogra> you need to do a bit more, like modifying the included archive data to make a added package known etc
[09:30] <ogra> see "Modify pool structure to include/delete packages" to add a language package
[09:32] <francoisb> Ok, I have a look immediately.
[10:08] <cafuego_> Guys, there's a small issue on the wiki as well. The default /etc/exports needs to have the '*' changed into an actual network/netmask.
[10:09] <francoisb> I give up for today. I'm not good enough in Linux AND English reading to do that.
[10:10] <ogra> cafuego_, why ?
[10:10] <ogra> and where on the wiki is that ?
[10:10] <cafuego_> ogra: The postsetup should perhaps mention it.
[10:11] <ogra> why ?
[10:11] <cafuego_> ogra: My servers (all three attempts) disallow mounts when * is used instead of a netwrork/mask entry.
[10:11] <ogra> it works fine with the wildcard... 
[10:11] <ogra> your edubuntu ? 
[10:11] <cafuego_> ogra: No, it doesn't here.
[10:11] <cafuego_> ogra: Yeah, default 5.10 install.
[10:12] <ogra> cafuego_, thats been tested many times, file a bug against ltsp-server if it doenst work on a unmodified edubuntu 
[10:13] <cafuego_> it's a fucntion of portmap/nfsd though, isn't it?
[10:13] <cafuego_> Use launchpad to file a bug?
[10:13] <ogra> but it gets set by ltsp-server 
[10:13] <ogra> nope, bugzilla
[10:13] <ogra> nad it surely works for many users out there, i'm quite surprised
[10:14] <ogra> s/nad/and
[10:15] <cafuego_> This is going to sound odd, but I just changed it back and _now_ it's happy with it :-/
[10:16] <ogra> what was the error you got ?
[10:17] <cafuego_> Initially I got "mount: 10.10.42.250:/opt/ltsp/i386 failed, reason given by server: Permission denied" on all the clients.
[10:18] <cafuego_> And on the server the usual "mount request from unknown host 10.10.42.80 for /opt/ltsp/i386 (/opt/ltsp/i386)"
[10:18] <ogra> hmm, strange...
[10:18] <cafuego_> I concur <heh>
[10:19] <cafuego_> Those errors are what got me to change exoports to begin with; I check hosts.{allow,deny} but they were both empty and shouldn't make a difference in that case.
[10:19] <ogra> yup
[10:20] <ogra> i guess the restart after editing the file fixed it...
[10:20] <cafuego_> Quite possibly, oh well. i'll leave it, see what happens on (a) next install.. then file a bug if it recurs again.
[10:21] <ogra> could you try rebooting the server with the default setting and see if it occurs again ? 
[10:21] <cafuego_> Yeh, vmware, so easy :-)
[10:21] <ogra> ah, vmware...
[10:22] <ogra> might be an interface issue ...
[10:22] <cafuego_> For what it's worth, the P233 did it too
[10:22] <ogra> ok
[10:22] <cafuego_> I just switched to vmware coz that's an Athlon with far too much ram, so it runs somewhat faster.
[10:22] <ogra> then i revert that theory
[10:23] <cafuego_> rebooting...
[10:25] <juliux> ogra, take a look at http://www.juliux.de/linux/ubuntubanner1.jpg
[10:26] <cafuego_> Would you know offhand if it's particularly hard to make the server authenticate against a novell directory server? (I'm checking this out for a guy at a school here)
[10:26] <ogra> erm... the colors are somewhat erm, pinkish...
[10:26] <juliux> ogra, is from my mobiletelefoncamera
[10:26] <ogra> cafuego_, i havent played with nds yet
[10:27] <ogra> juliux, so assuming the colors are right it looks fine :)
[10:27] <cafuego_> Cool... I'll make sure to document what I do then when I get around to it :-)
[10:27] <ogra> cafuego_, cool, thanks :)
[10:28] <juliux> ogra, http://www.mpathy.de/files/messe-ubuntu/ubuntu_BANNER_okay.pdf there you can see the right colors
[10:28] <ogra> woah... 
[10:28] <ogra> heavy orange :)
[10:29] <juliux> ogra, but everybody on a fair will see that there ist the *ubuntu both
[10:29] <cafuego_> yes, why do germans like to use dutch royal orange? ;-)
[10:29] <juliux> cafuego_, it is a ubuntu orange
[10:29] <ogra> cafuego_, because it looks cool ;)
[10:30] <juliux> cafuego_, it looks very very cool
[10:30] <ogra> we have no royals here, so we have to steal from our neighbors ;)
[10:30] <juliux> ogra, the banner is 0.8m x 2.5m
[10:31] <cafuego_> Oh come on, Angela has all the making of a queen, surely ;-)
[10:31] <juliux> cafuego_, lol
[10:31] <ogra> yes, thts what my laptop just discovered too when i switched to 100% size and the CPU freaked out ;)
[10:31] <ogra> *shudder*
[10:31] <cafuego_> ogra: nfs is happy on reboot, oh well.
[10:32] <ogra> hmm
[10:32] <ogra> weird
[10:32] <ogra> did you reboot it before or was this right after install ?
[10:33] <cafuego_> Right after install it had the problem; I didn't reboot it at that point, just edited the exports file and restarted the nfs server.
[10:33] <ogra> strange ...
[10:34] <ogra> it sounds like a portmap issue ... 
[10:34] <juliux> this is windows like
[10:34] <cafuego_> .. and without KDE, very special.
[10:34] <ogra> heh
[10:34] <cafuego_> ogra: Well, I'll see how I go and chalk it up to gremlins if it doesn't reoccur.
[10:35] <ogra> yes, but if you had it on two independent installs its somewhat worrying, i'll keep an eye on it
[10:36] <cafuego_> I'll set up another server on vmware, see how that fares.
[10:36] <ogra> do you use one or two NICs ?
[10:37] <cafuego_> just the one
[10:37] <ogra> hmm...
[10:38] <cafuego_> Ok, that's booting off the ISO... should be done in about an hour.
[10:38] <ogra> thanks
[10:41] <cafuego_> Oh the only thing that comes to mind is that i use a different box as dhcp server; it refers clients to edubuntu via the next-server directive.
[10:43] <ogra> hmm
[11:44] <cafuego_> ogra: Nope, it's ahppy now. oh well :-)
[11:49] <ogra> ok, gremlins or cosmic rays 
[11:49] <ogra> :-)