[12:05] <TerminX> slomo: I can't seem to post a bug to malone regarding my mplayer issues, but I've tracked the problem down to the MAKEDEV v4l in the postinst script
[12:05] <slomo> TerminX: why can't you post a malone bug?
[12:05] <TerminX> it gives me a 404
[12:06] <slomo> TerminX: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/+package  <--- get here, enter ubuntu as distribution, mplayer as pacakge name and fill in the other stuff... give me the bug number afterwards ;)
[12:07] <TerminX> anyways, the MAKEDEV v4l is wiping out all of my audio related device nodes and replacing them with ones owned by root with group root with permissions 700
[12:07] <TerminX> wait, not even 700
[12:07] <TerminX> 600 ;)
[12:08] <Kamion> slomo: (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug)
[12:09] <slomo> TerminX: well, if you can file a bug assign it to me or give me the bug number... i'll write it on my todo list now anyway ;)
[12:09] <TerminX> alright
[12:14] <robertj> has there been any discussion about using a user list with gdm?
[12:15] <TerminX> slomo: I searched for people to assign it to and it came up with "ewald_dieser@web.de" for "slomo"; is that correct?
[12:24] <TerminX> slomo: bug 4166
[12:24] <TerminX> slomo: however, it's not actually a bug in Ubuntu, it was something on my system, so you might as well just close it ;)
[12:24] <TerminX> just figured it out, heh
[12:40] <mvo> elmo: please sync file (override ok)
[01:20] <kornito> Seveas: you gotta unban me in ubuntu
[01:20] <kornito> i didn't do anything
[01:21] <Seveas> kornito, do not take such issues to #ubuntu-devel
[01:21] <Seveas> #ubuntu-offtopic is more appropriate
[01:33] <\sh> bingo
[01:34] <\sh> now i need mvo to teach me how to create nice gtk UIs ,)
[01:35] <mvo> \sh: hello
[01:35] <mvo> \sh: glade is a lovely tool :)
[01:36] <\sh> mvo: ok...then I need some python-glade love :)
[01:36] <\sh> naja...das lern ich noch schnell morgen :)
[01:36] <\sh> oops
[01:36] <sistpoty> hehe
[01:36] <\sh> mvo: ok..i learn it as fast as possible tomorrow
[01:36] <mvo> hehe :) that's the spirit!
[01:37] <sistpoty> i could only serve you with an gtk-example for python, written directly ;)
[01:37] <mvo> \sh: let's get into it tomorrow, I will go to bed very soon 
[01:37] <\sh> and I hope end of next week we have a nice reportbugs replacement with or without UI for LP
[01:37] <mvo> \sh: use "SimpleGladeApp" as the basis and it will be all fine
[01:38] <mvo> \sh: *yum* reportbug ... auto-transmiting information like the version of the package that the bug is filed against? that would so rock
[01:38] <siretart> sistpoty: \sh: awesome work for today. lets see: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new and http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/lpbugs.py in just few hours of work!
[01:38] <\sh> siretart: thx to u .. u were the inspiration
[01:39] <siretart> mvo: check the that links
[01:39] <siretart> mvo: thats not about general bug filing, just to help us to get an overview about what to do about universe merges
[01:40] <\sh> mvo: which is quite easy to achive..sourcepacke version is not a hard thing to integrate...but the hard thing is to magic regexp search throughout the html source of LP 
[01:40] <siretart> mvo: currently malone requires a gpg signature for filing bugs :(
[01:41] <sistpoty> siretart: thx :)
[01:41] <\sh> "I have many  signatures of my fellow citizens, but the xmlrpc interface is missing" (slighty changed quote out of Fahrenheit 9/11) 
[01:41] <mvo> siretart, \sh there has been some talk about a xml-rpm interface, do you know more about it?
[01:41] <mvo> *autsch*
[01:41] <mvo> "xml-rpc" :)
[01:41] <\sh> xml-rpm ?
[01:41] <\sh> hihi
[01:42] <siretart> mvo: there are xml-rpc interfaces to launchpad, but they are not accessible to the public right now afaik
[01:43] <mvo> oh, ok
[01:43] <siretart> mvo: I think the launchpad guys are quite busy with soyuz right now, so I'd say lets wait for after Feature Freeze and think then about a general and nice to have bugreporting tool
[01:44] <mvo> siretart: *nod* 
[01:45] <siretart> ok. /me needs sleep. urgently. 
[01:45] <siretart> good night, see you tomorrow!
[01:45] <\sh> i'm testing the close function now
[01:46] <\sh> and it looks like that this works too
[01:46] <minghua> the MoM status page is awesome
[01:49] <sistpoty> thx minghua
[01:49] <\sh> minghua: it is sistpoty did a good job
[01:49] <sistpoty> fortunately i had to hack only pretty few things, as this is basically much of revu2-infrastructure that i misused ;)
[01:50] <\sh> shit..closing does not work...i don't actually know if its now my fault or the fault of lp
[01:51] <minghua> sistpoty: good job indeed, it motivates me to do more merge work :-)
[01:52] <psusi> I'm trying to compile a package from source and the configure script says the c compiler can't create executables... well it can... how can I trace how the configure script is invoking the compiler?
[01:52] <psusi> I tried strace -eexecve and -e vfork... no calls
[01:53] <sistpoty> hehe, thx minghua... actually my only idea was that i thought that only the scotts logs might lead to confusion
[01:54] <\sh> grmpf
[01:54] <\sh> my fault
[01:54] <\sh> i used the non signed mail text
[01:55] <\sh> fixed
[01:57] <sistpoty> minghua: just because I saw that right now... please use s.th. with "merge new debian version" as bug title for your next merges... that way the merge-tracker will know it's a merge-bug and update the status
[01:59] <\sh> sistpoty: motu hopefuls will use from tomorrow on (somehow) the lpbugs.py :) which is easier to handle :)
[01:59] <\sh> sistpoty: we have to push this nifty tool to the universe
[02:00] <sistpoty> sure thing... I just try to avoid having to manually update status of 30-40 merges in the db when i wake up ;)
[02:01] <\sh> sistpoty: ;)
[02:13] <spstarr_home> uh oh, one of the ubuntu mirrors has a bad GPG key
[02:13] <spstarr_home>  http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com
[02:25] <spstarr_home> \sh: to build eric with whats listed in MoM, dependency for python-qtext -> python2.4-qtext
[02:28] <\sh> spstarr_home: as I said, please wait until debian upstream is ready. we will sync asap.  
[02:29] <spstarr_home> im waiting, i was just trying out whats currently in queue :)
[02:30] <\sh> spstarr_home: if eric is not building because of some dependencies, we will work on it. python-qtext should default to python2.4-qtext
[02:30] <spstarr_home> yeah i fixed that in the patch
[02:31] <spstarr_home> the last thing i need to fix is the default site-packages location (it put it in python2.3)
[02:31] <spstarr_home> then it runs 
[02:31] <spstarr_home> so while i wait for the official build, im good to go
[02:32] <spstarr_home> eric3conifg.debian 2.3 -> 2.4 
[02:32] <spstarr_home> oh even easier then I thought
[02:35] <\sh> spstarr_home: ?? which eric package are u using?
[02:35] <spstarr_home> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/eric/
[02:37] <\sh> spstarr_home: ah now
[02:37] <\sh> aeh no
[02:37] <\sh> don't use it
[02:37] <\sh> it
[02:37] <\sh> it'
[02:37] <\sh> damn...it's broken
[02:37] <spstarr_home> a little
[02:37] <\sh> a little too much
[02:38] <spstarr_home> aside from fixing rules and the location of eric3config stuff ? there's other bits broken?
[02:40] <neuralis> mdz: ping
[02:41] <neuralis> nevermind, he's not here.
[02:41] <spstarr_home> fixed that, it now installs to python2.4
[03:14] <spstarr_home> oh
[03:15] <spstarr_home> eric3 now needs lua
[03:19] <\sh> elmo: please remove eric3 from the repositories. eric3 is not used anymore...please please let it disappear magically (no morgue needed) thank you so much :)
[03:19] <\sh> elmo: eric is replacing eric3 (fyi)
[03:20] <spstarr_home> :)
[03:20] <spstarr_home> hmm,  my QScintilla is too old
[03:20] <spstarr_home> hrm
[03:21] <\sh> spstarr_home: a new qscintilla is already in dapper...as the whole python-qt/kde toolchain
[03:21] <spstarr_home> odd, something broke with this build
[03:22] <spstarr_home> AttributeError: luaGroupBox
[03:22] <spstarr_home> trying to figure out which python module has this
[03:24] <spstarr_home> oh
[03:25] <spstarr_home> i think I know why
[03:28] <spstarr_home> 'ericWizardsDir'      : r'/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/eric/Wizards',
[03:28] <spstarr_home>  <- wrong
[03:28] <spstarr_home> it got moved to /usr/share/eric/modules/Wizards
[03:39] <spstarr_home> hmm, some of the new patch code breaks.. now i see ;)
[05:57] <spstarr_home> oh we dont have python2.4-sip4-kde3?
[06:03] <tkup> What is the process like of submitting code/programs for inclusion in ubuntu?
[06:04] <LaserJock> for universe packages you can add it to wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
[06:07] <tkup> Thanks for the link. I just snuck a peek at it. Do you all would rather not deal with small packages (read < 200 lines of code) or should I just put on a flame-resistant suit and dive in?
[06:09] <LaserJock> hmmm, you might ask over at #ubuntu-motu, it probably depends on the usefulness, etc.
[06:40] <Kamion> I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA whether these will boot, install, work, or eat your system
[06:41] <Kamion> use at your own risk, but testing would be nice - I won't be able to test these until Monday
[06:45] <LaserJock> Kamion: is the live cd any safer than the install cd? Seems like it should be
[07:06] <Kamion> LaserJock: I have no information on either. In reality I think neither is particularly likely to actually eat your system, but I have to say that kind of thing just in case.
[07:06] <Kamion> If the install CD doesn't install successfully then you can always use the rescue mode it offers.
[07:08] <LaserJock> I am downloading the live cd as we speak ;-)
[07:08] <LaserJock> I haven't tried a Ubuntu live-cd yet and I am running my Windows laptop this weekedn
[07:09] <Kamion> if I had to bet on one working properly at the moment, I'd bet on the install CD; so don't judge Ubuntu by this one if the live CD fails :)
[07:09] <Kamion> if you just want something that works, use the released 5.10 live CD
[07:10] <LaserJock> yeah maybe, I
[07:10] <LaserJock> am in a testing mood though
[07:11] <Kamion> ok, cool
[07:11] <Kamion> you get to be the first one to test a dapper image, then ;)
[07:11] <LaserJock> working on the universe merge makes me want to try stuff
[08:27] <infinity> Kamion : Found the purge bug.  Shouldn't happen again.
[08:27] <infinity> (famous last words)
[08:32] <neuralis> infinity, have a second?
[08:34] <Burgundavia> neuralis, think you could extend that server testing framework to laptops?
[08:35] <neuralis> Burgundavia, the catalog? sure, easily.
[08:36] <Burgundavia> neuralis, then we could do away with the wiki page cludge
[08:36] <Burgundavia> and get a lot more people on with better testing
[08:37] <neuralis> Burgundavia, i'm all for it. in fact, there's probably no reason for us not to extend our official certification program to laptops, as well.
[08:37] <Burgundavia> can you do completely automated testing of laptops?
[08:37] <Burgundavia> or do we need a gtk app to say "now press the fn+f1 key"
[08:38] <neuralis> certainly not completely automated, but we can automate what we can, and provide clear instructions on how to test the rest.
[08:38] <Burgundavia> excellent
[08:39] <Burgundavia> neuralis, can you coordinate with mjg59 over what exactly he needs from the laptop testing stuff
[08:39] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:39] <neuralis> Burgundavia, yes, but that's on the backburner for the time being. servers first, and i won't even implement that until february.
[08:40] <Burgundavia> matthew might even be interested in writing it himself
[08:40] <Burgundavia> no fears, laptop testing is a long term thing anyway
[08:40] <neuralis> oh, you're talking about the actual testing app. yeah, i can talk to him about it, sure.
[08:41] <Burgundavia> neuralis, cheers
[08:41] <neuralis> i'll support different hardware classes in the catalog when i write it, so we can do things like 'laptops', 'servers', 'pdas' (for embedded ubuntu), and so on.
[08:42] <neuralis> i'll fire off an e-mail to malcolm and see how he feels about laptop certification.
[08:43] <hunger> My Thinkpad runs great since breezy. Hoary was a catastrophy, but breezy is *NICE*
[08:43] <hunger> Thanks for all the laptop work you guys already did.
[08:43] <neuralis> Burgundavia, you worked on the menusrevisited, right?
[08:43] <Burgundavia> hunger, you are not the only one who saw a major improvement from hoary to breezy
[08:43] <Burgundavia> neuralis, that I did
[08:44] <Burgundavia> i wrote most of it
[08:44] <hunger> Burgundavia: It basically went from "unusable" to "rocks":-)
[08:44] <hunger> Burgundavia: Thanks!
[08:44] <neuralis> Burgundavia, i saw a great proposal regarding gnome menus somewhere that i wanted you to look at, let me see if i can dig it up
[08:44] <Burgundavia> hunger, my job was purely secretarial
[08:44] <Burgundavia> neuralis, fire away
[08:47] <hunger> Let's see whether the kernel devs will get the necessary support into the kernel in time.
[08:48] <neuralis> Burgundavia, i can't seem to find it now. although, i did wonder: what happened to the actions menu in gnome?
[08:48] <Burgundavia> neuralis, it was replaced by places and system
[08:49] <Burgundavia> because it contained bits of both
[08:49] <Burgundavia> I saw the proposal for resurrecting it as a true actions menu
[08:49] <Burgundavia> I liked the idea
[08:49] <neuralis> i think that might've been what i was looking at
[08:49] <infinity> Kamion : Dude, ubuntu-desktop became uninstallable like an hour after we built the livecds... TIMING. :)
[08:50] <neuralis> infinity: can you glance over the rewritten TestingServerHardware spec?
[08:50] <Burgundavia> neuralis, that was on desktop-devel
[08:50] <zakame> hi all
[08:50] <neuralis> Burgundavia, the thing an actions menu is good for is not pieces of 'places' and 'system', but from pulling in the very, very bare minimum from 'applications'.
[08:51] <Burgundavia> a
[08:51] <Burgundavia> ya
[08:52] <neuralis> Burgundavia, 'write an e-mail', 'surf the web', 'chat with friends', 'edit photos', 'play music', spacer, 'write a document', 'create a presentation', 'create a spreadsheet'.
[08:53] <neuralis> with that there, i'd be a whole lot less concerned about clutter in the remainder of the menus turning off new users (even though it's great that it's being addressed.)
[08:53] <Burgundavia> neuralis, that is probably dapper+1 at least
[08:53] <tseng> i would say that 4 menus is too many
[08:54] <Burgundavia> tseng, I happen to agree with that
[08:54] <tseng> besides what is the actions bar for vs what is the applications bar for
[08:54] <Mithrandir> my top bar is getting really crowded and there's no way I'd have room for an "actions" menu.
[08:54] <tseng> and yes, *I* can understand your distinction
[08:54] <Burgundavia> the thing that would be most logical to remove if we added actions would be applications
[08:55] <Burgundavia> and that is gnome 3 (ie, currently most crack) territory
[08:55] <tseng> its still two places to launch an app
[08:55] <tseng> if you coddle people too much, there will come a time they want to do something more
[08:55] <tseng> and be baffled
[08:55] <neuralis> tseng, i agree that 4 menus is too much, and i wouldn't want (or use) an actions menu. but it seems it's much friendlier to a new user than having to search for an application through the app categories.
[08:56] <tseng> neuralis: it might seem that way in the simplist of cases
[08:57] <Burgundavia> there are a huge number of corner cases that need to be worked out on such a major shift like that
[08:57] <tseng> i wouldnt call them corners at all
[08:57] <neuralis> what if the applications menu only had those choices i listed above, and then a "Show all programs >" entry on the bottom, which expands into the application menu that we have today?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> ick
[08:58] <hunger> Users are (usually) not stupid.
[08:58] <Burgundavia> if we are going to switch to that sort of menu, we need to do it cold turket
[08:58] <Burgundavia> turkey, even
[08:58] <Mithrandir> neuralis: it would be horrible and I would really, really like to have an option to turn it off.
[08:58] <Mithrandir> or, I
[08:58] <Mithrandir> or, I'd probably would just remove the whole menu.
[08:58] <Mithrandir> and use deskbar-applet instead.
[08:59] <tseng> Mithrandir: openbox++
[08:59] <Mithrandir> tseng: I already use openbox, but that doesn't have a panel thingy.
[08:59] <Burgundavia> I can a menu of the places menu, the actions menu and the deskbar applet
[08:59] <tseng> it has a menu
[08:59] <tseng> and i know you do :)
[08:59] <Burgundavia> I can see
[08:59] <neuralis> Burgundavia, in any case, i'm not happy with these ideas either, but it also seems like there's a better way to do it than we do now.
[08:59] <Mithrandir> tseng: yes, but nautilus grabs the root menu
[08:59] <Mithrandir> and I like having somewhere to stuff my applets.
[08:59] <neuralis> Burgundavia, maybe just killing clutter in the menus will be sufficient.
[08:59] <tseng> Mithrandir: i remap it to middle click.
[09:00] <marilize> hi everybody
[09:00] <zakame> hi marilize
[09:00] <Burgundavia> neuralis, it is a good start
[09:00] <Burgundavia> salut marilize 
[09:00] <Mithrandir> tseng: Alt-F3 gives me deskbar and I can usually just whack in what I want and press enter and it's the right thing.  Hitting keys is easier than hitting stuff on a menu.
[09:00] <Burgundavia> marilize, is it possible to get 100 or 200 cds shipped without their covers?
[09:00] <hunger> neuralis: There already is a "debian" menu for "all stuff". Why not keep the normal menus cleaner?
[09:01] <Burgundavia> hunger, debian menu is a legacy hack
[09:01] <neuralis> hunger, ugh. that menu needs to die.
[09:01] <viviersf> right, why would it get a : "/dev/initctl not found " error ?
[09:01] <hunger> Hiding the admin stuff for non-admins is a good step, doing anything more is overkill IMHO.
[09:01] <Burgundavia> hunger, then comment with specific reasons why in th appropriate place
[09:02] <Burgundavia> hunger,  I did blog about it
[09:02] <neuralis> Burgundavia, i'll mail mjg re: laptop testing later today, and cc you
[09:03] <Burgundavia> neuralis, can you email the laptop-testing list?
[09:03] <neuralis> instead of, or in addition to, mjg directly?
[09:03] <Burgundavia> neuralis, instead of
[09:03] <hunger> Burgundavia: What is the proper place?
[09:03] <Burgundavia> he and I and a lot of others are on the list
[09:03] <neuralis> Burgundavia, will do.
[09:04] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited/Comments
[09:04] <neuralis> Burgundavia, i'll probably wait until i hear from mdz regarding the server spec, though.
[09:04] <Burgundavia> neuralis, np
[09:04] <marilize> Burgandavia: wow, never asked that  before, I'll have to find out....
[09:05] <marilize> why dont you want covers?
[09:05] <Burgundavia> marilize, the reason I am asking is for a future project of mine
[09:05] <neuralis> marilize, what's the current count on breezy cds shipped?
[09:06] <Burgundavia> marilize, malcolm and I are talking about Ubuntu in library catalogues. The plan as I envision it would be for loco teams to buy dvd cases, print localized inserts and covers and distribute them to local libraries
[09:07] <marilize> Burgundavia: will find out for you.....
[09:07] <Burgundavia> marilize, cheers
[09:07] <marilize> neuralis: not sure, Silbs would have to correct count
[09:07] <hunger> Burgundavia: I'll try to remember to comment on that as soon as I can access the page:-)
[09:08] <Burgundavia> hunger, welcome to our wiki
[09:08] <neuralis> *muttermutter*mediawiki*mutter*. :)
[09:08] <hunger> Burgundavia: Not the wiki's fault. I do not have net access from here:-)
[09:08] <hunger> At least not to https sites.
[09:09] <Burgundavia> neuralis, don't I wish
[09:09] <Burgundavia> hunger, if you email me your comments, I will but them their
[09:09] <Burgundavia> s/their/there
[09:10] <magnon> better than french 
[09:10] <Burgundavia> well, with mistakes like the ones I have been making tongith
[09:12] <hunger> Burgundavia: Well, I will have email access once I have web access, too:-)
[09:12] <Burgundavia> hunger, ah
[09:12] <hunger> Burgundavia: Have you read "The humane interface" form Raskin (the Mac guy)? It is a really cool book.
[09:13] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: why?
[09:13] <highvoltage> nevermind... /me should read properly :)
[09:14] <highvoltage> some people compare english to windows. it's easy to learn, and just as easy to mess up.
[09:17] <hunger> That I switch to linux at that time might have something to do with that.
[09:17] <highvoltage> hunger: :)
[09:45] <sivang> morning all
[10:31] <janimo> fabbione, ping
[10:32] <janimo> just read you mail re. xubuntu, I must migrate from that old mail address
[10:37] <dholbach> hellas
[10:44] <janimo> hey daniel
[10:50] <dholbach> hey jani
[10:50] <dholbach> how are you?
[10:52] <janimo> dholbach, fine thanks
[10:53] <janimo> trying to get organized :)
[10:53] <janimo> it seems unphysiological
[10:53] <janimo> and how's DJ-ing ;) ?
[10:55] <dholbach> janimo: excellent, but i still need a table that's higher than usual ones
[10:55] <dholbach> janimo: apart from that, i'm quite happy ;)
[10:55] <janimo> or high heels ;)
[10:55] <janimo> and a wig
[10:56] <janimo> or is that another branch of entertainment ;) ?
[10:56] <dholbach> erm
[10:56] <dholbach> no, you're wrong ;)
[10:57] <janimo> are you using headphones or is murphy enjoying it too?
[10:58] <dholbach> both, i use headphones and murphy enjoys over the speakers :)
[11:12] <Burgundavia> whiprush_, for planet news http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20051110/index.html
[11:23] <Mithrandir> chmj: please close the merge bugs when you are done with them
[11:55] <seb128> elmo: menu-xdg libbonobo libbonoboui djvulibre syncs please
[11:55] <chmj> Mithrandir: sure, gonna do that just now 
[11:57] <Mithrandir> dholbach: you want dasher, as it's gnome-team now, or should I?
[11:57] <dholbach> Mithrandir: i can do that
[11:58] <Mithrandir> dholbach: coolie
[11:59] <Nafallo> lol
[12:02] <highvoltage> Mithrandir: is there an ubuntu package for dosage?
[12:04] <Mithrandir> highvoltage: no idea, why?
[12:05] <highvoltage> Mithrandir: seems that there's a debian package, but not for ubuntu. i'd like to take it for -motu, if no one else is working on a package
[12:12] <dholbach> elmo: can you please sync dasher from sid? ok to override
[12:13] <seb128> lamont-away, infinity: please push a rebuild for goffice it broke due to a libgsf soname changes and binary not promoted yet
[12:23] <chmj> elmo: ping - imlib2 sync please, ubuntu override ok 
[12:29] <\sh> elmo: please sync arpack++ from debian unstable, ubuntu override ok
[12:55] <\sh> elmo: please sync aview from debian unstable, ubuntu override ok
[01:05] <infinity> neuralis : It looks okay to me, but ultimately, you want mdz's feedback, not mine (especially since I thought the previous messy/ugly spec was okay...)
[01:06] <neuralis> infinity, yeah, i requested feedback from him through launchpad
[01:06] <neuralis> just wanted a sanity check
[01:07] <infinity> neuralis : I really appreciate all the work you and HCS are willing to put into this, BTW.
[01:07] <highvoltage> g/win 11
[01:09] <neuralis> infinity, my pleasure. i want us to be an unmatched server distribution.
[01:10] <neuralis> with server-candy, certification and clustering, i think we're getting there.
[01:10] <infinity> I don't think that's an unreasonable goal.
[01:11] <infinity> We're pretty much there already, IMO, it's all about the polish required to make sure others agree.
[01:11] <infinity> (And widespread testing to find the really embarassing bugs before release...)
[01:11] <Diziet> gdk--  #  case GDK_COPY: xvalues.function = GXcopy; break;   etc. etc. etc.
[01:12] <infinity> neuralis : Do you have the facilities/expertise to do MySQL stress testing?  I need to make a hard decision on 4.1 versus 5.0 within weeks.
[01:15] <neuralis> infinity, i'm away from cambridge for the next two months, which makes it more difficult.
[01:15] <infinity> neuralis : Right, I'll set it up in my living room, then. :)
[01:16] <neuralis> infinity, how do you plan to do it? i do have some very large datasets on hand, but not any particularly complex queries.
[01:16] <infinity> neuralis : The biggest issue is finding a mess of rather, uh, messy datasets to shuffle around and attempt to break it.
[01:16] <\sh> infinity: mysql stresstesting in your livingroom? wow...
[01:16] <infinity> \sh : <shrug>... I'm a hardware nerd.  There's a reason I do server stuff.
[01:17] <infinity> neuralis : Massive datasets would be nice.  Nicer if they include insane relations and stored procedures and such.  Nicer again if they come with a chart of the DB I can glance at to construct arbitrarily convoluted and confusing queries. :)
[01:17] <\sh> infinity: hmm...8 node cluster mysql installation stresstesting...this in your livingroom.please send pics ,)
[01:18] <infinity> (The latter can probably be done randomly, though, and would probably be better random anyway)
[01:18] <sistpoty> infinity: I do have some tough datasets/queries at hand, but unfortunately I don't know if they work with mysql (they where made for postgres/oracle)
[01:18] <infinity> \sh : 3-node, probably, but.. <shrug>
[01:19] <infinity> seb128 : goffice unbuggered.
[01:20] <infinity> sistpoty : In theory, MySQL 5.0 should support pretty much every feature pgsql does (well, more or less), but getting the data from one to the other can be a chore.
[01:21] <infinity> sistpoty : One probably not worth doing, when I can create random tables and relations if I have to.
[01:21] <neuralis> infinity, i think your living room is your best bet. it'd be a lot easier for me to help if i were back in the states. :/
[01:21] <infinity> neuralis : No big deal.  The living room and I will have words when I get home.
[01:22] <sistpoty> infinity: I'll take a look at the datasets... iirc i used to have scripts to create plain insert statements, so it might be trivial... (I needed these in both postgres and oracle)
[01:22] <neuralis> infinity, otoh, if you just want a big dataset to mutilate and play with, grab http://download.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/20051105_pages_full.xml.7z (package 'p7zip' to unpack)
[01:23] <infinity> sistpoty : It's not the insert statements that suck, it's all the incompatibly named types that may or may not be aliased (and, hence, may require rewriting table creation syntax) that can make it a pain in the butt.
[01:24] <infinity> neuralis : Yeah, someone mentioned wikipaedia before.  Big dataset, good for testing storage backends and general stability, but not complex enough to be useful for catching corner cases.
[01:24] <infinity> neuralis : And I really hope upstream's in a position to pass the former tests with flying colours.
[01:25] <neuralis> infinity, right, but catching corner cases usefully would require some very careful test suite development, i think
[01:25] <neuralis> infinity, i don't think you can easily come up with any test that their QA department hasn't developed and run in-house already.
[01:25] <infinity> Incredibly complex relations that are next to impossible to dump/restore + pseudo-random code generation = profit.
[01:25] <infinity> neuralis : No, I can't come up with ideas they haven't, but I can hit different bugs with sheer luck. ;)
[01:26] <neuralis> i'll cross my fingers ;)
[01:26] <infinity> Mostly, I'm expecting community testers will catch most the hideous stuff in the next month now that 5.0 is GA, but I do want to test ON UBUNTU, for obvious reasons.
[01:27] <neuralis> aye. when do you need to decide?
[01:27] <infinity> I'm setting myself a hard limit of... Uhh.. "Christmas... ish"
[01:28] <infinity> I want to do the final "rebuild the whole effin' archive against the libmysqlclient I want to keep in main" in early January, so it's done before the sprint.
[01:29] <mdke> dholbach!
[01:29] <mdke> are you not fixing GOK in breezy?
[01:30] <neuralis> infinity, wikimedia will possibly have have switched to 5.0 by then, and what they lack in relational complexity, they make up in insane usage patterns. i'll let you know if they reach any conclusions about 5.0 before your personal deadline.
[01:30] <neuralis> s/have have/have/
[01:30] <infinity> neuralis : Cool, thanks.
[01:30] <dholbach> mdke: you think i should upload the dependency change to breezy-updates? hrmmm
[01:30] <infinity> neuralis : What OS do they run on?
[01:30] <neuralis> infinity, linux. fc mostly.
[01:31] <mdke> dholbach, yes, very much so. You may also remember that seb agreed
[01:31] <infinity> neuralis : Alright, should be close enough to get a decent view anyway.  I'll still need to do some sanity testing in Ubuntu, obviously.
[01:31] <dholbach> mdke: will get approval for it
[01:31] <mdke> thanks dholbach 
[01:32] <mdke> it's a big blocker for accessibility in breezy
[01:32] <neuralis> infinity, yeah, makes sense. and i have my sights on eventually converting them to ubuntu.
[01:32] <infinity> neuralis : A noble goal, but hey, I'm just happy if they're not running WinNT or a commercial UNIX at this point. :)
[01:33] <infinity> neuralis : (and for my own selfish testing needs, it's nice that they're running Linux)
[01:34] <neuralis> infinity, it's against policy for them. they do foss only, unless it's absolutely necessary to do otherwise (e.g. their donated sun machine runs solaris).
[01:34] <sistpoty> infinity: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/for_infinity/database.tar.gz
[01:35] <infinity> sistpoty : That's an awfully tiny DB...
[01:36] <neuralis> infinity, you know, you might want to just get in touch with their QA people and ask to borrow some of *their* test datasets?
[01:36] <sistpoty> infinity: well... the tables should be ~1000 entries iirc
[01:36] <infinity> neuralis : Yes, I will be doing that too.
[01:36] <infinity> sistpoty : Yes, that's tiny. :)
[01:37] <sistpoty> infinity: hehe, but it was big enough for students (that actually had to do these sql-statements) *g*
[01:37] <infinity> neuralis : I have open dialogue with MySQL upstream about 5.0 in dapper, so I'll tap whatever resources I can get away with.
[01:37] <neuralis> infinity, great. when asking, offer to receive their datasets under NDA if there's no other way - all we really care about is whether the tests run nicely on ubuntu.
[01:38] <infinity> neuralis : <nod>... They'll be more than willing, they seem pretty keen on seeing us support 5.0
[01:38] <neuralis> cool.
[01:39] <infinity> (To be honest, I'm leaning toward 5.0 too, just cause I don't want to backport security fixes to 4.1 for 5 years... But I'm so not willing to commit without some hard facts)
[01:40] <neuralis> yeah, +1 on 5.0 here, for a couple of reasons. 
[01:40] <sistpoty> I stopped using mysql somewhere at 3.x... so no clue about the latest changes
[01:40] <mdke> geez what sort of crazy network content-filters planet.ubuntu.com
[01:40] <mdke> :/
[01:41] <infinity> sistpoty : It's grown up a lot since 3.23
[01:41] <sistpoty> infinity: maybe I'll give it a try once i get to it ;)
[01:42] <infinity> sistpoty : It's now got every feature under the sun that people kept asking for (stored procedures, subqueries, standard data types, etc, etc), yet somehow maintains the age-old incredible speed.
[01:42] <neuralis> mysql 3.23 still makes baby cthulhu cry.
[01:42] <infinity> sistpoty : Worth giving it a test.
[01:42] <infinity> neuralis : I had 3.23 on my colo machine until... Uhh.. 2 months ago.
[01:42] <infinity> neuralis : *cough*
[01:43] <neuralis> infinity, that's very unfortunate.
[01:43] <infinity> neuralis : Who needs fancy things like transactions anyway?.. 3.23 was basically a FAT filesystem with a SQL frontend. :)
[01:44] <infinity> (A fast one, though)
[01:44] <sistpoty> hehe
[01:44] <neuralis> infinity, yep, but i find myisam to be all but horrid in production, except in tightly controlled use cases.
[01:45] <magnon> pitti!
[01:45] <pitti> Good morning
[01:46] <infinity> Yo, pitti.
[01:46] <infinity> pitti : Heading to breakfast?
[01:46] <infinity> The Last Brekkie.
[01:46] <pitti> infinity: still want to shave, shower, etc.
[01:47] <pitti> infinity: just mail exchange with my gf for now :)
[01:47] <infinity> Bah.  Cleanliness is for people who don't do software development.
[01:47] <Simira> haha
[01:48] <Simira> ah, you're going home today
[01:48] <Simira> these days went so fast
[01:48] <pitti> yes, this afternoon
[01:48] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync haddock (0.7-1) from unstable ubuntu override ok
[01:49] <sistpoty> damn my punctuation *g*
[01:50] <infinity> Has anyone actually tested our Crack of the Day dapper CDs yet?
[01:50] <infinity> I'm terribly curious if they.. Uhm.. Boot.
[01:50] <infinity> (working otherwise would be even cooler)
[01:54] <seb128> infinity: thanks for the goffice build
[01:55] <pitti> mvo: can you please use -v when you merge packages?
[01:56] <mdke> ooh dapper cds
[01:56] <mvo> pitti: ups, yes
[01:56] <mdke> infinity, are there 3 different dailies for today?
[01:57] <mdke> oh no
[01:57] <mdke> just powerpc in different folders
[01:58] <Mithrandir> mvo: I'd appreciate if you would close bugs when you've merged stuff.  I spent some time this morning merging imagemagick because the bug was still open. :-/
[01:59] <mvo> Mithrandir: I'm very sorry for that. I usually close the bugs, this one must have slipped through :(
[01:59] <seb128> pitti: thanks :)
[02:00] <Mithrandir> mvo: ok, np.  Slips happen. :-)
[02:00] <seb128> pitti: so I don't feel alone to ask people to use -v :p
[02:00] <pitti> hehe
[02:00] <seb128> Mithrandir: have you looked on this weird gtk ia32 hack?
[02:01] <seb128> Mithrandir: I've reassigned the bug to you, let me know if that's the wrong place :)
[02:01] <mvo> Mithrandir: I go over my accepted mails now and check if I forgot any other close
[02:01] <Simira> yay! I'm first in the phone support queue
[02:02] <neuralis> there's a phone support queue?
[02:02] <Simira> uh, yes...
[02:02] <neuralis> this is not ubuntu you're talking about, right? :)
[02:02] <Simira> no
[02:03] <Mithrandir> Simira: you're still going to be home for a while, right?
[02:03] <Mithrandir> seb128: it's probably my bug, yes.
[02:03] <Simira> rather my private adsl line
[02:03] <Simira> Mithrandir: yes? 
[02:03] <neuralis> Simira, ah, makes sense.
[02:03] <Mithrandir> Simira: goodie, dhl just called and they _still_ had the wrong address, so they'll drop by in a little while.. I might come home soon. ;-)
[02:04] <Simira> wrong address? Nonnegata or Holtegata?
[02:05] <Mithrandir> they thought I lived in Holtegaten still.
[02:05] <Simira> ahrg... phonesupport....
[02:07] <Simira> how can I step forward in the queue when I'm first...?
[02:07] <seb128> do we do sync automatically for <n>build1 versions?
[02:07] <pitti> yes
[02:07] <seb128> cool
[02:08] <pitti> (that's the whole point)
[02:08] <seb128> so /me wonders why easytag 1.99.7-1build2 is not updated
[02:09] <seb128> debian has 1.99.8 for some weeks
[02:09] <seb128> and I've updated to 1.99.9 yesterday
[02:10] <Mithrandir> iz gtk bug?
[02:11] <Nafallo> :-)
[02:12] <seb128> Mithrandir: no, it starts with a "e" :p
[02:12] <mvo> elmo: please sync debianutils (override ok)
[02:15] <Mithrandir> seb128: zpeling iz hard. ;-P
[02:17] <seb128> elmo: please sync gazpacho
[02:19] <seb128> slomo_: around?
[02:22] <sivang> hmm, there is some kind of a problem with the web site
[02:22] <sivang> every link I click gives me "Site Error"
[02:26] <sivang> ah, it's only some of them now
[02:29] <Nafallo> someone else experience problems with gksudo on an up-to-date dapper?
[02:30] <seb128> not me
[02:30] <dholbach> me neither
[02:31] <Nafallo> none of you guys is on amd64, right?
[02:31] <dholbach> i am
[02:31] <Nafallo> odd
[02:31] <Nafallo> I have to kill sudo to be able to use X again
[02:33] <Nafallo> I'll try rebooting, brb
[02:37] <Mithrandir> elmo: can you please sync icu or NEW the binaries?  It seems to be needed for the newer boost.
[02:38] <Nafallo> nafallo@darkelf:~ $ gksudo echo echo
[02:38] <Nafallo> echo
[02:38] <Nafallo> Segmenteringsfel
[02:39] <Nafallo> segfault! joy :-P.
[02:40] <Nafallo> after killing a process like this one to make gksudo not steal my keyboard:
[02:40] <Nafallo> /usr/bin/sudo -S -p GNOME_SUDO_PASS -v
[02:41] <seb128> does sudo work?
[02:41] <Nafallo> yes
[02:42] <seb128> weird
[02:42] <seb128> ask mvo, he did the syncs
[02:42] <Nafallo> I kill sudo, which makes gksudo continue and launch stuff with privilegies ;-)
[02:42] <Nafallo> I'll do :-)
[02:42] <Nafallo> mvo: ping ^ :-)
[02:51] <mvo> Nafallo: gksudo fails for you?
[02:52] <Nafallo> yes
[02:52] <Nafallo> and it executes things when I kill sudo :-P
[02:53] <mvo> Nafallo: hm, I suspect the build-dep for libgksu1.2 is not strong enough, let me check it
[02:53] <Nafallo> oki :-)
[02:56] <mvo> Nafallo: right, it seems like libgksu1.2 already got updated, but gksu is waiting for the libgksuui1.0 sync
[02:56] <mvo> Nafallo: that makes gksu fail apparently
[02:57] <Nafallo> that means I should test it I guess? :-)
[02:59] <mvo> Nafallo: hm, not a lot to test until libgksuui is updated :)
[02:59] <Nafallo> or rather, I'll try it :-)
[02:59] <Nafallo> building debians libgksuui locally and then update gksu :-)
[03:00] <mvo> Nafallo: yes, that should work. take the gksu from dapper, it's already (as source) in the archive
[03:00] <Nafallo> was just about to ask :-)
[03:28] <Diziet> pref("font.default.ar", "sans-serif");
[03:28] <Diziet> pref("font.default.el", "serif");
[03:28] <Diziet> etc.   ???
[03:29] <dholbach> setting default fonts for certain locales?
[03:29] <Diziet> Yes.  But why serif for some and sans for others ?
[03:30] <dholbach> maybe certain font sets don't contain the appropriate letters? *shrug*
[03:30] <dholbach> or look prettier :)
[03:34] <Kamion_> seb128: gdm (and probably others) need to be changed to depend on the new libgsf, if you didn't know already
[03:37] <Diziet> So, now we have the shiny new feature specs mechanism and everything, supposing I read a spec and want to comment to say `you have forgotten X, which you ought to deal with in way W if you care' ?
[03:38] <Diziet> Bothering the Assignee or Drafter on IRC seems the wrong answer.
[03:38] <Diziet> Am I allowed to go and add witter to the end of the wiki ?
[03:38] <Mithrandir> just add a comment at the end of the spec
[03:39] <Kamion_> if it's cleanly separated (e.g. "== Comments =="), it's fine to add stuff
[03:39] <Mithrandir> or hassle the assignee on IRC, I'd say, depending on if you think it'll generate a discussion or not.
[03:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion_: ah, I was just looking for you.  What's a good way to test cloop-utils?
[03:39] <Kamion_> usually a good idea to tell the assignee that you've done so since many of us don't subscribe to all the relevant wiki pages
[03:39] <mdke> you can create a subpage of the spec called "talk" or "comments" and link it from the main page
[03:39] <mdke> if you don't want to comment on the page itself
[03:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: create_compressed_fs is what the buildds use to build the live filesystem, but I don't really know much about it
[03:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it seems to build, and it looks mostly ok, so... I could just upload it and have you or infty yell at me when it blows up.
[03:41] <sivang> we should have some sort of emailing events for the spec tracker..
[03:41] <sivang> hey Diziet 
[03:42] <Diziet> sivang: Hello.  How're things ?
[03:42] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that's one usual technique ;)
[03:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and it's because it's used for the generation of compressed fs-es I'm a bit wary of just doing "merge, upload, run away"
[03:43] <sivang> Diziet: pretty good, thanks.
[03:43] <Mithrandir> but heck, it's still early in the cycle.  What could _possibly_ go wrong?
[03:43] <Kamion>       create_compressed_fs $IMGNAME $COMP > livecd.${FS}.cloop-${fsbs}
[03:43] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ^-- that's the livecd invocation
[03:43] <Nafallo> famous last words :-)
[03:44] <Kamion> $IMGNAME having been attached by losetup shortly before
[03:44] <Mithrandir> it didn't segfault, uploading. :-)
[03:45] <Kamion> (well, you probably want to *detach* too)
[03:52] <Diziet> No, just my house network.  xenophobe is the firewall (I'm going to get rid of NAT RSN honest ...)
[03:52] <Diziet> Oops, leaking.
[03:59] <Kamion> elmo: please sync debianutils
[03:59] <Kamion> (ok to override)
[03:59] <Kamion> oh, er, never mind, mvo already requested that
[04:02] <Nafallo> mvo: works now :-). gnome-python-extras, gnome-system-monitor and gnome-volume-manager had to be rebuilt to get libgksuui1.0-1 in :-)
[04:04] <Nafallo> mvo: thanks.
[04:08] <mvo> Nafallo: thanks for testing
[04:09] <mvo> Kamion: are you back? did you had a good trip?
[04:10] <Kamion> mvo: still in the hotel, going sightseeing this morning
[04:11] <mvo> Kamion: have fun then :)
[04:11] <Mithrandir> elmo: please sync tspc from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes is ok.
[04:12] <Simira> Mithrandir: I'm heading off now
[04:12] <Mithrandir> Simira: ok, see you in a bit, then.
[04:13] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yeah, I suck at updating the changelog. :-/
[04:16] <Mithrandir> elmo: please sync upx-ucl-beta from unstable, overriding Ubuntu changes is ok.
[04:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I should probably put a dch --release into the command line.
[04:20] <lamont> aptitude, rpm, and xrdb are main packages that build-depend universe binaries.
[04:22] <freeflying> smurf:hi
[04:22] <smurf> freeflying: ?
[04:23] <freeflying> I have sent you a mail
[04:23] <freeflying> smurf: I'm a chinese ubuntu user
[04:23] <janimo> Kamion, for starting to build xubuntu dapper dailies where should the seeds be published?
[04:24] <freeflying> smur: have you know our site for ubuntu
[04:29] <mdke> freeflying, go to #ubuntu-locoteams
[04:29] <freeflying> mdke:thanks
[04:32] <Kamion> janimo: up to you
[04:32] <smurf> mdke: actually, no -- <freeflying> smurf: we have a spec for support CJK user betrter
[04:32] <janimo> Kamipon, I asked since I assume you run the builds. So any public http will do for you?
[04:33] <Kamion> janimo: (I did say before that you'd have to find another system to build xubuntu dailies on, didn't I? I can help with setting that up, although not this week)
[04:33] <mdke> smurf, :) i thought it was a website thing
[04:33] <janimo> Kamion, for breezy yes
[04:33] <janimo> for dapper too?
[04:33] <Kamion> janimo: I said before that cdimage is maxed out
[04:33] <Kamion> for dapper, we'll see, but I don't want to commit cdimage to it right now
[04:33] <Kamion> xubuntu still requires universe, doesn't it?
[04:33] <janimo> well for dapper only as I stated in the original question to you
[04:34] <Kamion> yes, I understood that
[04:34] <janimo> that's another question yes, should I work on a mainpromotion spec for xfce &c o?
[04:34] <janimo> right now it universe mostly
[04:34] <slomo_> seb128: here i am ;)
[04:34] <Kamion> it's not a separate question, because cdimage only builds from main (and I have various reasons for not wanting to change that)
[04:35] <janimo> it's a separate question but same answer :)
[04:35] <janimo> I did not know that
[04:35] <Kamion> yes, main promotion would be good to arrange if you think your team can commit to long-term support for it
[04:35] <janimo> sure
[04:35] <janimo> xfce has had no security issues in years
[04:36] <\sh> janimo: don't say this lighthearted....3 years is a hell a lot of time
[04:36] <janimo> \sh, that was even the 3.x series which got rewritten since so no sec issues then at all :)
[04:37] <Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements, anyway
[04:37] <\sh> janimo: think about this...it will be the first release of xubuntu and already the first release has to be supported for 3 years....which is not easy
[04:38] <Kamion> janimo: also, at present, any extra builds running on cdimage involve a certain amount of care and feeding by me
[04:38] <janimo> I started on xfce main inclusion stuff a whle ago
[04:38] <\sh> anyways..I have to go....later babes
[04:38] <Kamion> janimo: my workload is insane, and I'd rather any extra CD builds ran outside cdimage.ubuntu.com until Launchpad CD building exists and can take some of that workload off me
[04:38] <janimo> Kamion, is the system going to be more automated in the future? I assume it is hard enough already with kubuntu and edu
[04:39] <Kamion> in the future, yes
[04:39] <janimo> in dapper timeframe?
[04:39] <janimo> I am in no hurry just want to be prepared when/if you are
[04:39] <Kamion> I mean obviously it's already pretty automated, but I have to fix bugs in CD generation and stuff
[04:39] <Kamion> unlikely to be in dapper timeframe
[04:40] <janimo> any docs on how I can reproduce what you do locally?
[04:40] <Kamion> I can give you instructions next week
[04:40] <janimo> thanks that will be great
[04:40] <Kamion> today I'm busy sightseeing, packing, and travelling, as soon as I get round to leaving
[04:41] <janimo> sure np, as I said no hurry, just preparing and planning
[04:42] <janimo> oh and enjoy your sightseeing :)
[04:43] <smurf> freeflying: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/input-methods -- subscribing to that spec and talking to the people mentioned on that page should be a good first step
[04:58] <ogra> lamont, around ?
[05:12] <lamont> ogra: yes
[05:13] <ogra> lamont, could you remove or kick gcompris ? 
[05:14] <ogra> (if you can remove all except orig.tar.gz that would be preferred, else i'll wait until the current version built)
[05:15] <lamont> ogra: I have no archive modification rights
[05:15] <lamont> I can make gcompris try to build somewhere, but that's about it
[05:15] <ogra> ok, then just kick it 
[05:15] <ogra> thats fine with me...
[05:20] <Robot101> anyone know any bug in breezy's xorg with the i810 driver where totem starting up (initialising xvideo?) causes the X server to crash, and then continue crashing every time you start it subsequently until rebooting?
[05:26] <highvoltage> when i install it, it complains that my initrd has changed and it cannot install.
[05:26] <ogra> highvoltage, you wont gain anything *if* you install it...
[05:26] <highvoltage> ogra: doesn't it work with the main ubuntu installation, or doesn't it work in the ltsp environment?
[05:27] <ogra>  /var/log becomes r/w too late in the bootprocess
[05:27] <highvoltage> ogra: really? i was promised i will get screenshots of my boot process in a folder in /var!
[05:27] <jsgotangco> ogra: what does it do? creates a chart of the boot process?
[05:27] <ogra> yup
[05:27] <jsgotangco> speeds it up?
[05:27] <ogra> in /var/log/bootsplash
[05:27] <ogra> nope
[05:27] <highvoltage> well, i'll have more and more time over the next few weeks. I want to help test things if it's needed.
[05:27] <ogra> it gives you only a chart of the sigle procs and their time footprint
[05:28] <highvoltage> then again, my ubuntu is a bit far customised on this laptop, perhaps my charts will be a bit skew.
[05:28] <ogra> i'll check if it word with /tmp as target folder, but we'll need to start it later in the bootprocess for sure, so the measuring wont include the initramfs...
[05:29] <ogra> s/word/works
[05:30] <ogra> it works fine on a normal ubuntu/edubuntu ...
[05:30] <ogra> highvoltage, try: dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r` if the update-initramfs doesnt work
[05:35] <lamont> hrm... looks like openssl needs a merging.
[05:57] <infinity> lamont : pitti is already doing openssl stuff, Colin and I had asked him to hold off for a day or two before uploading.
[05:57] <lamont> ok
[05:58] <lamont> I wasn't planning to do it, just grumbling about it...:0)
[05:58] <lamont> I'm fixing kdepim instead.
[06:02] <slomo_> hm, will we get debhelper >= 5 soon?
[06:28] <gypsymauro> hello
[06:28] <gypsymauro> I've created an iso apt-cdrom addable with the full italian localization, acrobat reader, skype, realplayer, some games and educational software (600 MB of iso) but I've not a place where to publish it.. it's possible on ubuntu servers or somewhere else?
[06:32] <mdke> does Ubuntu have a default mail server?
[06:32] <mdke> i mean, is one mail server preferred over another?
[06:33] <BenC> I only show one MX record for ubuntu.com
[06:33] <mdke> i mean, in terms of software shipping with the distribution
[06:34] <BenC> ah
[06:34] <mdke> i remember postfix used to be in -base
[06:34] <BenC> postfix is default, I believe
[06:34] <mdke> but now it isn't
[06:34] <ompaul> mdke, there is no live one on 5.10 - afik more people are using postfix 
[06:34] <mdke> ok
[06:35] <ompaul> mdke, check the server version 
[06:35] <mdke> i ask in terms of preparing some documentation for dapper
[06:35] <ompaul> it may have one in there - but I guess it will have both sendmail and postfix
[06:35] <mdke> should we prefer a specific piece of software for a mail server, or just pick one we like?
[06:35] <ompaul> there is no default mta you have to get one 
[06:35] <ompaul> postfix is easier for a new user
[06:36] <ompaul> sendmail.cf is something I never got to grips with - I have used postfix for as long as it has been an option
[06:36] <mdke> so all the major ones are fully supported, no single one is preferred over others basically?
[06:36] <ompaul> let me look at what is in the repos
[06:37] <mdke> exim4 is in universe
[06:37] <mdke> postfix is in main
[06:37] <ompaul> and sendmail is in universe
[06:37] <ompaul> that says something :-)
[06:37] <mdke> ok that kinda answers my question
[06:39] <mdke> thanks ompaul 
[06:39] <ompaul> mdke, what did I do :-)
[06:39] <mdke> hey you helped out
[06:39] <Nafallo> postfix is preferred :-)
[06:40] <lamont> mdke: postfix is no longer part of the standard install, but it is the default MTA if you install something that wants an MTA
[06:40] <mdke> lamont, thanks. is it in ubuntu-server by default?
[06:40] <ompaul> mdke,  only if your doing a mail server 
[06:40] <lamont> mdke: doubtful
[06:40] <mdke> is there a list of packages on that cd?
[06:41] <lamont> policy says that you don't ask questions unless grandma will know the answers
[06:41] <lamont> and when you install an MTA, you really need some admin-grade answers.
[06:41] <lamont> that's why we dropped it.
[06:41] <mdke> fair enough
[06:41] <lamont> grandma doesn't need an MTA
[06:41] <mdke> hopefully gran will be able to read our server guide if she wants an MTA
[06:41] <lamont> I'm 90% certain that postfix is on the server ISO, but haven't actually checked.
[06:42] <lamont> Kinnison: you highlight on 'grandma'??
[06:42] <mdke> lol
[06:42] <ogra> lol
[06:42] <Nafallo> postfix is in ubuntu-ship, no?
[06:42] <lamont> yes
[06:42] <Kinnison> lamont: You don't?
[06:42] <lamont> lol
[06:42] <mdke> what is ubuntu-ship?
[06:42] <Nafallo> then it should definatly be in ubuntu-server I belive :-)
[06:43] <lamont> mdke: it's the seed that generates what goes on the iso
[06:43] <mdke> kthx
[06:43] <lamont> ship: * postfix             # LaMontJones; our chosen mail server
[06:43] <mdke> wow
[06:43] <mdke> you have a WikiName in real life?
[06:44] <Nafallo> wow. lamont is our mail server :-)
[06:44] <mdke> ok anyhow my question has been well and truly answered
[06:44] <mdke> thanks all
[06:44] <lamont> Nafallo: _chosen_ mail server, puhleease.
[06:44] <Nafallo> :-)
[06:45] <lamont> and the remaining postfix binary debs are in server-seed, which puts them on the server iso.  doc and dev are just in supported.
[06:45] <lamont> mdke: wasn't as of last night
[06:45] <mdke> nor of this morning...
[06:45] <lamont> well, as of 0615 data-center-time
[06:47] <Nafallo> ehm? UTC? :-P
[06:47] <ompaul> mdke, on the server iso there is a directory /doc/install/manual/en 
[06:48] <mdke> ompaul, i'll see if I can download the iso
[06:48] <mdke> ooh so close to installing ubuntu-deskotp
[06:49] <mdke> just nautilus and gdm
[06:49] <Nafallo> will be more after the syncs are done ;-)
[06:49] <mdke> oh well
[06:50] <ompaul> mdke, http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/ubuntu-server/5.10/  << may be a useful url for that
[06:54] <dilinger> what does it mean when a bugzilla bug is assigned to debzilla@ubuntu
[06:54] <dilinger> ?
[06:55] <dholbach> "unassigned"
[06:55] <dholbach> or a bug that was imported from debian
[06:55] <dilinger> ok, thanks
[06:56] <dilinger> are there people triaging unassigned bugs?
[06:56] <dilinger> or should i figure out who to assign it to? :)
[06:58] <dholbach> we have bug days quite irregularly :/
[06:58] <dholbach> but matt is assign-o-matic :)
[06:59] <Nafallo> :-)
[07:00] <dilinger> i would think they'd be quite important, as they affect hoary->breezy upgrades :/
[07:00] <dholbach> ouch
[07:05] <LaserJock> hmm, I can't get dapper-live-i386.iso to burn
[07:06] <LaserJock> md5sum checks  out, it just fails <50% done
[07:26] <dholbach> elmo: could you please sync freetype from sid? ok to override ubuntu changes
[07:31] <slomo_> infinity: be happy :P we can have a new haskell-cabal from debian... should be fine this time but depends on ghc6 << 6.4... shall i sync it or just ignore?
[07:32] <Diziet> On dapper, will `gcc' be gcc-4.0 ?
[07:32] <slomo_> Diziet: it was 4.0 for breezy already
[07:32] <Diziet> Oh, so it is !
[07:33] <Diziet> Breezy's firefox has a patch to set CC=gcc-4.0 in some of the makefiles.  More the fool me for assuming stuff in the breezy patches was actually needed.
[07:48] <Diziet> vanishing exceptions--  #  try { setOKAction(); } catch (exception) { /* keep it set to "OK" */ }
[07:49] <dholbach> elmo: please sync netpbm-free from sid, ok to override martin's changes
[08:04] <seb128> Kamion: will do the changes for libgsf, thanks
[08:04] <slomo_> seb128: ping
[08:04] <seb128> slomo_: pong
[08:04] <slomo_> seb128: ;) you asked me 8 hours ago if i'm there... is it still relevant? ;)
[08:05] <seb128> slomo_: probably not
[08:06] <slomo_> seb128: ok :)
[08:07] <slomo_> seb128: i talked with lool today about getting wavpack in debian... the only issue now seems to be unknown patent situation... nobody seems to know if there are patents on it or not, even the author doesn't...
[08:09] <Diziet> Wahey!  I found a useful patch in our Firefox which _isn't_ in 1.5 beta !
[08:29] <slomo> elmo: please sync gv, gtksoureview-sharp, gtksourceview-sharp2, seahorse from debian/unstable and avahi from debian/experimental... ubuntu changes can be dropped for all
[08:39] <_thierry> seb128 : just added the patch for malone bug #3941, if you want to apply it...
[08:47] <slomo> elmo: thanks :)
[09:11] <mvo> Mithrandir: around?
[09:23] <slomo> elmo: please sync dnspython from debian/unstable
[09:28] <Chipzz> http://www.mattb.net.nz/blog/2005/11/07/cool-new-feature-in-ssh-40-weekend-update/
[09:29] <Chipzz> hmm nm that
[09:40] <dholbach> good night
[09:40] <pitti> night dholbach 
[09:40] <pitti> dholbach: see you in .de :)
[09:40] <dholbach> you visit me? :)
[09:40] <mvo> infinity: could you please kick the gksu build? the dependencies should now be available
[09:41] <pitti> 99.5% of the way
[09:41] <dholbach> haha :)
[09:41] <dholbach> right... see you then :)
[09:41] <pitti> dholbach: but I will certainly haunt you at some day
[09:41] <dholbach> be sure to do that :)
[09:49] <LaserJock> Diziet: ping?
[10:05] <Nafallo> Keybuk: hi! care to sponsor an upload? :-)
[10:06] <Keybuk> Nafallo: hmm?  what is it?
[10:07] <Nafallo> http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/imagemagick_6.2.4.5-0.2ubuntu2.debdiff
[10:07] <Nafallo> added libxext-dev as build-dep :-)
[10:09] <Keybuk> I don't think I've ever used that ...
[10:09] <Nafallo> I just fixed it cause kismet needs it ;-)
[10:10] <Nafallo> (libmagick9-dev that is)
[10:10] <slomo> oh, it's really the 9-one... i need it too ;)
[10:11] <Nafallo> ... and the pressure builds up ;-)
[10:17] <tashiro> doko: I'm really sorry about what happened. I hope that you weren't offended by me or man-di. And if yes, then please accept my apologies. This was just a slip-up and some misunderstandings.
[10:21] <Nafallo> Keybuk: so. do I have a sponsor? :-)
[10:22] <Keybuk> Nafallo: I'm not going to be home until Tuesday, so you'd have a long wait
[10:23] <Nafallo> Keybuk: ah. I'll see if I can find someone else then :-)
[10:26] <slomo> oh no... pitti wanted to merge openssl and now he's gone and i need it :(
[10:36] <slomo> infinity, lamont-away: please give-back gtksourceview-sharp, gtksourceview-sharp2 and seahorse
[10:48] <zyga> hllo
[10:48] <zyga> hello even
[10:56] <slomo> Kamion: can you look at openssl and get this synced? pitti has already written in the corresponding bugreport that it can be safely synced... i need it for another package :/
[11:14] <Nafallo> elmo: please sync kazehakase from unstable (ubuntu override okey)
[11:22] <dilinger> grr.  galeon in breezy crashes a lot :/
[11:24] <HiddenWolf> dilinger, isn't galeon dead?
[11:24] <dilinger> no
[11:24] <tseng> HiddenWolf: long term, maybe
[11:25] <dilinger> i just need to write my own browser, that's all
[11:25] <HiddenWolf> dilinger, fix epiphany so we can all ditch firefox. ;)
[11:30] <dilinger> i don't consider epiphany to be fixable
[11:30] <wasabi_> what's wrong with it?
[11:30] <wasabi_> i love it. ;)
[11:31] <dilinger> the emacs keybinding stuff is the first thing that comes to mind
[11:31] <slomo> elmo: please sync gmime2.1 from debian/unstable... ubuntu changes can be dropped
[11:31] <tseng> slomo: they can?
[11:32] <tseng> slomo: i thought you just said the b-d was still messed up
[11:32] <slomo> tseng: they can... did you look at what we've changed? only cosmetical changes to build-depends and updated to upstream
[11:33] <slomo> tseng: they are... but it doesn't break the package... it only pulls in too many packages which are not needed
[11:33] <tseng> ok
[11:33] <tseng> works for me.
[11:33] <slomo> hehe
[11:33] <tseng> lets lart someone
[11:34] <tseng> with cli policy
[11:34] <slomo> yes... will you do it or shall i? ;)
[11:34] <tseng> probably should be a bug
[11:35] <slomo> :)
[11:36] <Simira> http://tellus.err.no/gallery/ubz
[11:36] <tseng> can i file a bug against a source package?
[11:36] <Nafallo> Simira: yay! :-)
[11:36] <tseng> Package: gmime2.1
[11:37] <Nafallo> Simira: btw, signatures? :-)
[11:37] <slomo> tseng: sure... but the debian bts i annoying ;)
[11:37] <slomo> they need some kind of webinterface to fill bugs
[11:37] <\sh> simira: rock
[11:39] <tseng> slomo: er
[11:39] <tseng> slomo: the latest only depends on cli-common and mono-mcs
[11:40] <tseng> slomo: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/g/gmime2.1/gmime2.1_2.1.17-2.diff.gz
[11:40] <tseng> slomo: am i missing something?
[11:40] <slomo> yes
[11:40] <slomo> Build-Depends: debhelper (>> 3.0.0), libglib2.0-dev, gtk-doc-tools, autotools-dev, docbook-utils, zlib1g-dev, cli-common [i386 powerpc amd64 ia64] , mono-mcs [i386 powerpc amd64 ia64] , mono-gac [i386 powerpc amd64 ia64] , libgtk2.0-cil [i386 powerpc amd64 ia64] , gtk-sharp2-gapi [i386 powerpc amd64 ia64] 
[11:40] <slomo> Standards-Version: 3.6.2
[11:40] <tseng> we are not looking at the same package I think
[11:41] <tseng> look at my link
[11:41] <slomo> 2.1.17-2
[11:41] <tseng> oh im a tool
[11:41] <slomo> hmm
[11:41] <tseng> firefox doesnt break lines
[11:41] <tseng> its scrolled way off to the side
[11:41] <slomo> hehe
[11:56] <Simira> Nafallo: mission complete
[11:56] <mdke> nice photos
[11:57] <Nafallo> Simira: yay! gothcat to? :-)
[11:57] <mdke> maybe someone has said this before, but \sh must be the most laid back guy ever
[11:57] <mdke> going by the photos :)
[11:57] <tseng> mdke: prost!
[11:57] <mdke> bless you
[11:57] <Simira> Nafallo: yup
[11:58] <Nafallo> Simira: *hugs* :-)
[11:58] <tseng> jdub: have they screenshot toured FreeDOS yet?
[12:00] <\sh> mdke: WH
[12:00] <\sh> AT?
[12:00] <mdke> \sh, the shades, they are so cool
[12:00] <mdke> and you always seem to be wearing them in the photos i've seen
[12:00] <\sh> thanks to ogra
[12:00] <\sh> and carnival
[12:00] <Nafallo> lol
[12:01] <\sh> jdub: not only your luggage as exrtreme hazard alike
[12:01] <\sh> s/as/was/
[12:02] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync hmake (3.10-1) from debian unstable, ubuntu override ok