[12:05] slomo: I can't seem to post a bug to malone regarding my mplayer issues, but I've tracked the problem down to the MAKEDEV v4l in the postinst script [12:05] TerminX: why can't you post a malone bug? [12:05] it gives me a 404 [12:06] TerminX: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/+package <--- get here, enter ubuntu as distribution, mplayer as pacakge name and fill in the other stuff... give me the bug number afterwards ;) [12:07] anyways, the MAKEDEV v4l is wiping out all of my audio related device nodes and replacing them with ones owned by root with group root with permissions 700 [12:07] wait, not even 700 [12:07] 600 ;) [12:08] slomo: (https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug) [12:09] TerminX: well, if you can file a bug assign it to me or give me the bug number... i'll write it on my todo list now anyway ;) [12:09] alright === anavim [n=adamw@nat1.supportsoft.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:14] has there been any discussion about using a user list with gdm? [12:15] slomo: I searched for people to assign it to and it came up with "ewald_dieser@web.de" for "slomo"; is that correct? === anavim [n=adamw@nat1.supportsoft.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:24] slomo: bug 4166 [12:24] slomo: however, it's not actually a bug in Ubuntu, it was something on my system, so you might as well just close it ;) [12:24] just figured it out, heh === mpt [n=mpt@66.103.220.192] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Jimbob [n=jcape@c-67-173-146-239.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seth_k|lappy [n=seth@d-ip-129-15-214-144.wireless.ou.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:40] elmo: please sync file (override ok) === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === chip [n=chip@feather.perl6.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mpt [n=mpt@66.103.220.192] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kikidonk [n=kikidonk@ip-83-134-2-128.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anavim [n=adamw@nat1.supportsoft.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=hunger@p54A604D0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anavim [n=adamw@nat1.supportsoft.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-devel === neuralis [n=ike@83-131-19-253.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spstarr_home [n=sh0n@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kornito [i=punk@tal33-2-82-230-114-176.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:20] Seveas: you gotta unban me in ubuntu [01:20] i didn't do anything [01:21] kornito, do not take such issues to #ubuntu-devel [01:21] #ubuntu-offtopic is more appropriate === spstarr_home [n=sh0n@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kornito [i=punk@tal33-2-82-230-114-176.fbx.proxad.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [01:33] <\sh> bingo [01:34] <\sh> now i need mvo to teach me how to create nice gtk UIs ,) [01:35] \sh: hello [01:35] \sh: glade is a lovely tool :) === anavim [n=adamw@nat1.supportsoft.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:36] <\sh> mvo: ok...then I need some python-glade love :) [01:36] <\sh> naja...das lern ich noch schnell morgen :) [01:36] <\sh> oops [01:36] hehe [01:36] <\sh> mvo: ok..i learn it as fast as possible tomorrow [01:36] hehe :) that's the spirit! [01:37] i could only serve you with an gtk-example for python, written directly ;) [01:37] \sh: let's get into it tomorrow, I will go to bed very soon [01:37] <\sh> and I hope end of next week we have a nice reportbugs replacement with or without UI for LP [01:37] \sh: use "SimpleGladeApp" as the basis and it will be all fine [01:38] \sh: *yum* reportbug ... auto-transmiting information like the version of the package that the bug is filed against? that would so rock [01:38] sistpoty: \sh: awesome work for today. lets see: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new and http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/lpbugs.py in just few hours of work! [01:38] <\sh> siretart: thx to u .. u were the inspiration [01:39] mvo: check the that links [01:39] mvo: thats not about general bug filing, just to help us to get an overview about what to do about universe merges [01:40] <\sh> mvo: which is quite easy to achive..sourcepacke version is not a hard thing to integrate...but the hard thing is to magic regexp search throughout the html source of LP [01:40] mvo: currently malone requires a gpg signature for filing bugs :( [01:41] siretart: thx :) [01:41] <\sh> "I have many signatures of my fellow citizens, but the xmlrpc interface is missing" (slighty changed quote out of Fahrenheit 9/11) [01:41] siretart, \sh there has been some talk about a xml-rpm interface, do you know more about it? [01:41] *autsch* === mvo should go to bed [01:41] "xml-rpc" :) [01:41] <\sh> xml-rpm ? [01:41] <\sh> hihi [01:42] mvo: there are xml-rpc interfaces to launchpad, but they are not accessible to the public right now afaik [01:43] oh, ok [01:43] mvo: I think the launchpad guys are quite busy with soyuz right now, so I'd say lets wait for after Feature Freeze and think then about a general and nice to have bugreporting tool [01:44] siretart: *nod* [01:45] ok. /me needs sleep. urgently. [01:45] good night, see you tomorrow! [01:45] <\sh> i'm testing the close function now [01:46] <\sh> and it looks like that this works too === Jimbob [n=jcape@c-67-173-146-239.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:46] the MoM status page is awesome [01:49] thx minghua [01:49] <\sh> minghua: it is sistpoty did a good job [01:49] fortunately i had to hack only pretty few things, as this is basically much of revu2-infrastructure that i misused ;) [01:50] <\sh> shit..closing does not work...i don't actually know if its now my fault or the fault of lp === Gman- is now known as GmanAFK [01:51] sistpoty: good job indeed, it motivates me to do more merge work :-) === psusi [n=phreak@103.202.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:52] I'm trying to compile a package from source and the configure script says the c compiler can't create executables... well it can... how can I trace how the configure script is invoking the compiler? [01:52] I tried strace -eexecve and -e vfork... no calls [01:53] hehe, thx minghua... actually my only idea was that i thought that only the scotts logs might lead to confusion [01:54] <\sh> grmpf [01:54] <\sh> my fault [01:54] <\sh> i used the non signed mail text [01:55] <\sh> fixed === spstarr_home loads eric :) [01:57] minghua: just because I saw that right now... please use s.th. with "merge new debian version" as bug title for your next merges... that way the merge-tracker will know it's a merge-bug and update the status [01:59] <\sh> sistpoty: motu hopefuls will use from tomorrow on (somehow) the lpbugs.py :) which is easier to handle :) [01:59] <\sh> sistpoty: we have to push this nifty tool to the universe [02:00] sure thing... I just try to avoid having to manually update status of 30-40 merges in the db when i wake up ;) [02:01] <\sh> sistpoty: ;) === whiprush_ [n=jorge@64.62.190.212] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Jimbob_ [n=jcape@c-67-175-222-235.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:13] uh oh, one of the ubuntu mirrors has a bad GPG key [02:13] http://ca.archive.ubuntu.com === LeeJunFan_away [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-7.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === anavim [n=adamw@nat1.supportsoft.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:25] \sh: to build eric with whats listed in MoM, dependency for python-qtext -> python2.4-qtext === ptlo [n=senko@83-131-72-15.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.15] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:28] <\sh> spstarr_home: as I said, please wait until debian upstream is ready. we will sync asap. [02:29] im waiting, i was just trying out whats currently in queue :) [02:30] <\sh> spstarr_home: if eric is not building because of some dependencies, we will work on it. python-qtext should default to python2.4-qtext [02:30] yeah i fixed that in the patch [02:31] the last thing i need to fix is the default site-packages location (it put it in python2.3) [02:31] then it runs [02:31] so while i wait for the official build, im good to go [02:32] eric3conifg.debian 2.3 -> 2.4 [02:32] oh even easier then I thought === kyncani [n=kyncani@lns-bzn-1-82-250-5-133.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:35] <\sh> spstarr_home: ?? which eric package are u using? [02:35] http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/eric/ === alg [n=alg@200-208-63-106-mns.cpe.vivax.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:37] <\sh> spstarr_home: ah now [02:37] <\sh> aeh no [02:37] <\sh> don't use it [02:37] <\sh> it [02:37] <\sh> it' [02:37] <\sh> damn...it's broken [02:37] a little [02:37] <\sh> a little too much [02:38] aside from fixing rules and the location of eric3config stuff ? there's other bits broken? [02:40] mdz: ping [02:41] nevermind, he's not here. [02:41] fixed that, it now installs to python2.4 === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@ubuntu/member/mgalvin] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ikuyaLoqu [n=ikuya@gnulinux.good-day.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zak@210.213.80.228] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:14] oh [03:15] eric3 now needs lua === kikidonk_ [n=kikidonk@ip-83-134-2-22.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:19] <\sh> elmo: please remove eric3 from the repositories. eric3 is not used anymore...please please let it disappear magically (no morgue needed) thank you so much :) [03:19] <\sh> elmo: eric is replacing eric3 (fyi) [03:20] :) [03:20] hmm, my QScintilla is too old === chris38-home [n=Christia@LSt-Amand-152-31-26-96.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:20] hrm [03:21] <\sh> spstarr_home: a new qscintilla is already in dapper...as the whole python-qt/kde toolchain [03:21] odd, something broke with this build [03:22] AttributeError: luaGroupBox [03:22] trying to figure out which python module has this [03:24] oh [03:25] i think I know why [03:28] 'ericWizardsDir' : r'/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/eric/Wizards', [03:28] <- wrong [03:28] it got moved to /usr/share/eric/modules/Wizards === bmonty_laptop [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:39] hmm, some of the new patch code breaks.. now i see ;) === kikidonk_ is now known as kikidonk === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.15] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@adsl-69-153-128-173.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === sbalneav [n=sbalneav@S0106000b6a5631f9.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Keybuk [n=scott@66.103.220.217] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.15] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === GmanAFK is now known as gman === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.15] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdz [n=mdz@66.103.220.156] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jlj [n=agp@cpe-204-210-33-233.san.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dooglus_ [n=dooglus@r2m7.chello.upc.cz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Do [n=dooglus@r2m7.chello.upc.cz] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel === du2br [i=nobody@200.231.31.238] has joined #ubuntu-devel === r0bby [n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby] has joined #ubuntu-devel === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === r0bby [n=wakawaka@cpe-204-210-133-115.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@adsl-69-227-135-244.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:57] oh we dont have python2.4-sip4-kde3? === tkup [n=tkup@w-mob101-128-62-85-237.public.utexas.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:03] What is the process like of submitting code/programs for inclusion in ubuntu? [06:04] for universe packages you can add it to wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates [06:07] Thanks for the link. I just snuck a peek at it. Do you all would rather not deal with small packages (read < 200 lines of code) or should I just put on a flame-resistant suit and dive in? [06:09] hmmm, you might ask over at #ubuntu-motu, it probably depends on the usefulness, etc. === hunger [n=hunger@p54A620CC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:Kamion] : Ubuntu Development (not support, even with dapper) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Ubuntu 5.10 released: http://www.ubuntu.com/newsitems/release510 | First Dapper CDs: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ [06:40] I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA whether these will boot, install, work, or eat your system [06:41] use at your own risk, but testing would be nice - I won't be able to test these until Monday [06:45] Kamion: is the live cd any safer than the install cd? Seems like it should be === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:06] LaserJock: I have no information on either. In reality I think neither is particularly likely to actually eat your system, but I have to say that kind of thing just in case. [07:06] If the install CD doesn't install successfully then you can always use the rescue mode it offers. [07:08] I am downloading the live cd as we speak ;-) [07:08] I haven't tried a Ubuntu live-cd yet and I am running my Windows laptop this weekedn [07:09] if I had to bet on one working properly at the moment, I'd bet on the install CD; so don't judge Ubuntu by this one if the live CD fails :) [07:09] if you just want something that works, use the released 5.10 live CD [07:10] yeah maybe, I [07:10] am in a testing mood though [07:11] ok, cool [07:11] you get to be the first one to test a dapper image, then ;) [07:11] working on the universe merge makes me want to try stuff === rob1 [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rob1 [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lamont [n=lamont@c-24-6-161-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === magnon [n=co@cD9088834.sdsl.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === magnon_ [n=co@cD9088834.sdsl.catch.no] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-175-217.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lbm [n=lbm@cpe.atm4-0-1301006.0x50a0824e.vgnxx6.customer.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Awaygir is now known as Aegir === Aegir` [n=richard@d58-104-12-191.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chmj [n=chmj@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:27] Kamion : Found the purge bug. Shouldn't happen again. [08:27] (famous last words) === viviersf [n=cain@rrba-146-120-32.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gman is now known as GmanAFK [08:32] infinity, have a second? [08:34] neuralis, think you could extend that server testing framework to laptops? [08:35] Burgundavia, the catalog? sure, easily. [08:36] neuralis, then we could do away with the wiki page cludge [08:36] and get a lot more people on with better testing [08:37] Burgundavia, i'm all for it. in fact, there's probably no reason for us not to extend our official certification program to laptops, as well. [08:37] can you do completely automated testing of laptops? [08:37] or do we need a gtk app to say "now press the fn+f1 key" [08:38] certainly not completely automated, but we can automate what we can, and provide clear instructions on how to test the rest. [08:38] excellent [08:39] neuralis, can you coordinate with mjg59 over what exactly he needs from the laptop testing stuff [08:39] ? [08:39] Burgundavia, yes, but that's on the backburner for the time being. servers first, and i won't even implement that until february. [08:40] matthew might even be interested in writing it himself [08:40] no fears, laptop testing is a long term thing anyway [08:40] oh, you're talking about the actual testing app. yeah, i can talk to him about it, sure. === Kamion_ [n=cjwatson@83-216-156-196.colinw664.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:41] neuralis, cheers [08:41] i'll support different hardware classes in the catalog when i write it, so we can do things like 'laptops', 'servers', 'pdas' (for embedded ubuntu), and so on. [08:42] i'll fire off an e-mail to malcolm and see how he feels about laptop certification. [08:43] My Thinkpad runs great since breezy. Hoary was a catastrophy, but breezy is *NICE* [08:43] Thanks for all the laptop work you guys already did. [08:43] Burgundavia, you worked on the menusrevisited, right? [08:43] hunger, you are not the only one who saw a major improvement from hoary to breezy [08:43] neuralis, that I did [08:44] i wrote most of it [08:44] Burgundavia: It basically went from "unusable" to "rocks":-) [08:44] Burgundavia: Thanks! [08:44] Burgundavia, i saw a great proposal regarding gnome menus somewhere that i wanted you to look at, let me see if i can dig it up [08:44] hunger, my job was purely secretarial [08:44] neuralis, fire away === hunger hopes his HDD crash sensor will work in dapper. [08:47] Let's see whether the kernel devs will get the necessary support into the kernel in time. === magnon [n=co@photogeeks/magnon] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:48] Burgundavia, i can't seem to find it now. although, i did wonder: what happened to the actions menu in gnome? [08:48] neuralis, it was replaced by places and system [08:49] because it contained bits of both [08:49] I saw the proposal for resurrecting it as a true actions menu [08:49] I liked the idea [08:49] i think that might've been what i was looking at [08:49] Kamion : Dude, ubuntu-desktop became uninstallable like an hour after we built the livecds... TIMING. :) === zakame [n=Josh@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:50] infinity: can you glance over the rewritten TestingServerHardware spec? [08:50] neuralis, that was on desktop-devel [08:50] hi all [08:50] Burgundavia, the thing an actions menu is good for is not pieces of 'places' and 'system', but from pulling in the very, very bare minimum from 'applications'. [08:51] a [08:51] ya [08:52] Burgundavia, 'write an e-mail', 'surf the web', 'chat with friends', 'edit photos', 'play music', spacer, 'write a document', 'create a presentation', 'create a spreadsheet'. [08:53] with that there, i'd be a whole lot less concerned about clutter in the remainder of the menus turning off new users (even though it's great that it's being addressed.) [08:53] neuralis, that is probably dapper+1 at least [08:53] i would say that 4 menus is too many [08:54] tseng, I happen to agree with that === marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:54] besides what is the actions bar for vs what is the applications bar for [08:54] my top bar is getting really crowded and there's no way I'd have room for an "actions" menu. [08:54] and yes, *I* can understand your distinction [08:54] the thing that would be most logical to remove if we added actions would be applications [08:55] and that is gnome 3 (ie, currently most crack) territory [08:55] its still two places to launch an app [08:55] if you coddle people too much, there will come a time they want to do something more [08:55] and be baffled [08:55] tseng, i agree that 4 menus is too much, and i wouldn't want (or use) an actions menu. but it seems it's much friendlier to a new user than having to search for an application through the app categories. [08:56] neuralis: it might seem that way in the simplist of cases [08:57] there are a huge number of corner cases that need to be worked out on such a major shift like that === hunger thinks that having several ways to access one app is more confusiong than having a biggish menu. [08:57] i wouldnt call them corners at all [08:57] what if the applications menu only had those choices i listed above, and then a "Show all programs >" entry on the bottom, which expands into the application menu that we have today? [08:58] ick === doko [n=doko@dslb-084-059-083-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:58] Users are (usually) not stupid. [08:58] if we are going to switch to that sort of menu, we need to do it cold turket [08:58] turkey, even [08:58] neuralis: it would be horrible and I would really, really like to have an option to turn it off. [08:58] or, I [08:58] or, I'd probably would just remove the whole menu. [08:58] and use deskbar-applet instead. [08:59] Mithrandir: openbox++ [08:59] tseng: I already use openbox, but that doesn't have a panel thingy. [08:59] I can a menu of the places menu, the actions menu and the deskbar applet [08:59] it has a menu [08:59] and i know you do :) [08:59] I can see [08:59] Burgundavia, in any case, i'm not happy with these ideas either, but it also seems like there's a better way to do it than we do now. [08:59] tseng: yes, but nautilus grabs the root menu [08:59] and I like having somewhere to stuff my applets. [08:59] Burgundavia, maybe just killing clutter in the menus will be sufficient. [08:59] Mithrandir: i remap it to middle click. [09:00] hi everybody [09:00] hi marilize [09:00] neuralis, it is a good start [09:00] salut marilize [09:00] tseng: Alt-F3 gives me deskbar and I can usually just whack in what I want and press enter and it's the right thing. Hitting keys is easier than hitting stuff on a menu. [09:00] marilize, is it possible to get 100 or 200 cds shipped without their covers? [09:00] neuralis: There already is a "debian" menu for "all stuff". Why not keep the normal menus cleaner? [09:01] hunger, debian menu is a legacy hack [09:01] hunger, ugh. that menu needs to die. [09:01] right, why would it get a : "/dev/initctl not found " error ? [09:01] Hiding the admin stuff for non-admins is a good step, doing anything more is overkill IMHO. [09:01] hunger, then comment with specific reasons why in th appropriate place === neuralis has to run out and get groceries [09:02] hunger, I did blog about it [09:02] Burgundavia, i'll mail mjg re: laptop testing later today, and cc you [09:03] neuralis, can you email the laptop-testing list? [09:03] instead of, or in addition to, mjg directly? [09:03] neuralis, instead of [09:03] Burgundavia: What is the proper place? [09:03] he and I and a lot of others are on the list [09:03] Burgundavia, will do. === Burgundavia knew that question was coming [09:04] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited/Comments [09:04] Burgundavia, i'll probably wait until i hear from mdz regarding the server spec, though. [09:04] neuralis, np [09:04] Burgandavia: wow, never asked that before, I'll have to find out.... [09:05] why dont you want covers? [09:05] marilize, the reason I am asking is for a future project of mine [09:05] marilize, what's the current count on breezy cds shipped? [09:06] marilize, malcolm and I are talking about Ubuntu in library catalogues. The plan as I envision it would be for loco teams to buy dvd cases, print localized inserts and covers and distribute them to local libraries [09:07] Burgundavia: will find out for you..... [09:07] marilize, cheers [09:07] neuralis: not sure, Silbs would have to correct count [09:07] Burgundavia: I'll try to remember to comment on that as soon as I can access the page:-) [09:08] hunger, welcome to our wiki [09:08] *muttermutter*mediawiki*mutter*. :) [09:08] Burgundavia: Not the wiki's fault. I do not have net access from here:-) [09:08] At least not to https sites. === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:09] neuralis, don't I wish [09:09] hunger, if you email me your comments, I will but them their [09:09] s/their/there === Burgundavia is ashamed that he is a native English speaker/writer [09:10] better than french [09:10] well, with mistakes like the ones I have been making tongith [09:12] Burgundavia: Well, I will have email access once I have web access, too:-) [09:12] hunger, ah [09:12] Burgundavia: Have you read "The humane interface" form Raskin (the Mac guy)? It is a really cool book. [09:13] Burgundavia: why? [09:13] nevermind... /me should read properly :) [09:14] some people compare english to windows. it's easy to learn, and just as easy to mess up. === hunger never had trouble with windows since about the 95 Version. [09:17] That I switch to linux at that time might have something to do with that. === highvoltage never had trouble with windows since the xp version. by a huge co-incidence, this was also the time i stopped using windows. [09:17] hunger: :) === Aegir [n=richard@d58-104-12-191.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Valandil [n=chrys@dslb-084-056-087-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:45] morning all === r0bby [n=wakawaka@cpe-204-210-133-115.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yvonne [n=justme@pdpc/supporter/active/Yvonne] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-131-111.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=Josh@ubuntu/member/zakame] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === zoe [n=zoe@gnulinux.good-day.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === koke [n=koke@ubuntu/member/koke] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger_ [n=hunger@p54A62F64.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === koke [n=koke@ubuntu/member/koke] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:31] fabbione, ping [10:32] just read you mail re. xubuntu, I must migrate from that old mail address === ptlo [n=senko@83-131-95-193.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:37] hellas === pef [n=loic@ubuntu/member/pef] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:44] hey daniel === lionel_ [n=lionel@ABordeaux-152-1-71-46.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:50] hey jani [10:50] how are you? [10:52] dholbach, fine thanks [10:53] trying to get organized :) [10:53] it seems unphysiological [10:53] and how's DJ-ing ;) ? [10:55] janimo: excellent, but i still need a table that's higher than usual ones [10:55] janimo: apart from that, i'm quite happy ;) [10:55] or high heels ;) [10:55] and a wig [10:56] or is that another branch of entertainment ;) ? [10:56] erm [10:56] no, you're wrong ;) [10:57] are you using headphones or is murphy enjoying it too? [10:58] both, i use headphones and murphy enjoys over the speakers :) === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.15] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:12] whiprush_, for planet news http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20051110/index.html === tjs [n=tjs@144.139.77.51] has joined #ubuntu-devel === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tjs [n=tjs@144.139.77.51] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === womble [n=mpalmer@eth359.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === koke [n=koke@ubuntu/member/koke] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:23] chmj: please close the merge bugs when you are done with them === ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-173-92.bas504.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Cassidy [n=gdesmott@di-pc12.ulb.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:55] elmo: menu-xdg libbonobo libbonoboui djvulibre syncs please [11:55] Mithrandir: sure, gonna do that just now [11:57] dholbach: you want dasher, as it's gnome-team now, or should I? [11:57] Mithrandir: i can do that [11:58] dholbach: coolie === Mithrandir looks at boost and thinks "you know it's bad when the ubuntu patch is almost four times the size of the .orig.tar.gz" === koke [n=koke@ubuntu/member/koke] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:59] lol === vuntz|away is now known as vuntz === chmj laffs [12:02] Mithrandir: is there an ubuntu package for dosage? [12:04] highvoltage: no idea, why? === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:05] Mithrandir: seems that there's a debian package, but not for ubuntu. i'd like to take it for -motu, if no one else is working on a package === neuralis [n=ike@hagen.kdb.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:12] elmo: can you please sync dasher from sid? ok to override [12:13] lamont-away, infinity: please push a rebuild for goffice it broke due to a libgsf soname changes and binary not promoted yet === seb128_ [n=seb128@ANancy-151-1-4-129.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:23] elmo: ping - imlib2 sync please, ubuntu override ok [12:29] <\sh> elmo: please sync arpack++ from debian unstable, ubuntu override ok === henriquemaia [n=henrique@cb-217-129-168-181.netvisao.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === magnon [n=co@photogeeks/magnon] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === apokryphos [n=apokryph@host-84-9-35-138.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sebest [n=chatzill@sebest.ovibes.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sistpoty [n=sistpoty@ubuntu/member/sistpoty] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:55] <\sh> elmo: please sync aview from debian unstable, ubuntu override ok === zoe [n=zoe@p6089-ipad65osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.15] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman- [n=gman@nwkea-socks-1.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:05] neuralis : It looks okay to me, but ultimately, you want mdz's feedback, not mine (especially since I thought the previous messy/ugly spec was okay...) [01:06] infinity, yeah, i requested feedback from him through launchpad [01:06] just wanted a sanity check [01:07] neuralis : I really appreciate all the work you and HCS are willing to put into this, BTW. [01:07] g/win 11 === enrico_ [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:09] infinity, my pleasure. i want us to be an unmatched server distribution. [01:10] with server-candy, certification and clustering, i think we're getting there. [01:10] I don't think that's an unreasonable goal. [01:11] We're pretty much there already, IMO, it's all about the polish required to make sure others agree. [01:11] (And widespread testing to find the really embarassing bugs before release...) [01:11] gdk-- # case GDK_COPY: xvalues.function = GXcopy; break; etc. etc. etc. [01:12] neuralis : Do you have the facilities/expertise to do MySQL stress testing? I need to make a hard decision on 4.1 versus 5.0 within weeks. [01:15] infinity, i'm away from cambridge for the next two months, which makes it more difficult. [01:15] neuralis : Right, I'll set it up in my living room, then. :) [01:16] infinity, how do you plan to do it? i do have some very large datasets on hand, but not any particularly complex queries. [01:16] neuralis : The biggest issue is finding a mess of rather, uh, messy datasets to shuffle around and attempt to break it. [01:16] <\sh> infinity: mysql stresstesting in your livingroom? wow... [01:16] \sh : ... I'm a hardware nerd. There's a reason I do server stuff. [01:17] neuralis : Massive datasets would be nice. Nicer if they include insane relations and stored procedures and such. Nicer again if they come with a chart of the DB I can glance at to construct arbitrarily convoluted and confusing queries. :) [01:17] <\sh> infinity: hmm...8 node cluster mysql installation stresstesting...this in your livingroom.please send pics ,) [01:18] (The latter can probably be done randomly, though, and would probably be better random anyway) [01:18] infinity: I do have some tough datasets/queries at hand, but unfortunately I don't know if they work with mysql (they where made for postgres/oracle) [01:18] \sh : 3-node, probably, but.. [01:19] seb128 : goffice unbuggered. [01:20] sistpoty : In theory, MySQL 5.0 should support pretty much every feature pgsql does (well, more or less), but getting the data from one to the other can be a chore. === kikidonk [n=kikidonk@ip-83-134-6-244.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:21] sistpoty : One probably not worth doing, when I can create random tables and relations if I have to. [01:21] infinity, i think your living room is your best bet. it'd be a lot easier for me to help if i were back in the states. :/ [01:21] neuralis : No big deal. The living room and I will have words when I get home. [01:22] infinity: I'll take a look at the datasets... iirc i used to have scripts to create plain insert statements, so it might be trivial... (I needed these in both postgres and oracle) [01:22] infinity, otoh, if you just want a big dataset to mutilate and play with, grab http://download.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/20051105_pages_full.xml.7z (package 'p7zip' to unpack) === jinty [n=jinty@205.134.224.215] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:23] sistpoty : It's not the insert statements that suck, it's all the incompatibly named types that may or may not be aliased (and, hence, may require rewriting table creation syntax) that can make it a pain in the butt. [01:24] neuralis : Yeah, someone mentioned wikipaedia before. Big dataset, good for testing storage backends and general stability, but not complex enough to be useful for catching corner cases. [01:24] neuralis : And I really hope upstream's in a position to pass the former tests with flying colours. [01:25] infinity, right, but catching corner cases usefully would require some very careful test suite development, i think [01:25] infinity, i don't think you can easily come up with any test that their QA department hasn't developed and run in-house already. [01:25] Incredibly complex relations that are next to impossible to dump/restore + pseudo-random code generation = profit. === Diziet runs diff on the output from 3diff. [01:25] neuralis : No, I can't come up with ideas they haven't, but I can hit different bugs with sheer luck. ;) [01:26] i'll cross my fingers ;) [01:26] Mostly, I'm expecting community testers will catch most the hideous stuff in the next month now that 5.0 is GA, but I do want to test ON UBUNTU, for obvious reasons. [01:27] aye. when do you need to decide? [01:27] I'm setting myself a hard limit of... Uhh.. "Christmas... ish" [01:28] I want to do the final "rebuild the whole effin' archive against the libmysqlclient I want to keep in main" in early January, so it's done before the sprint. [01:29] dholbach! [01:29] are you not fixing GOK in breezy? [01:30] infinity, wikimedia will possibly have have switched to 5.0 by then, and what they lack in relational complexity, they make up in insane usage patterns. i'll let you know if they reach any conclusions about 5.0 before your personal deadline. [01:30] s/have have/have/ === magnon [n=co@photogeeks/magnon] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:30] neuralis : Cool, thanks. [01:30] mdke: you think i should upload the dependency change to breezy-updates? hrmmm [01:30] neuralis : What OS do they run on? [01:30] infinity, linux. fc mostly. [01:31] dholbach, yes, very much so. You may also remember that seb agreed [01:31] neuralis : Alright, should be close enough to get a decent view anyway. I'll still need to do some sanity testing in Ubuntu, obviously. === Simira [n=rpGirl@214.84-48-74.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:31] mdke: will get approval for it [01:31] thanks dholbach [01:32] it's a big blocker for accessibility in breezy [01:32] infinity, yeah, makes sense. and i have my sights on eventually converting them to ubuntu. [01:32] neuralis : A noble goal, but hey, I'm just happy if they're not running WinNT or a commercial UNIX at this point. :) [01:33] neuralis : (and for my own selfish testing needs, it's nice that they're running Linux) [01:34] infinity, it's against policy for them. they do foss only, unless it's absolutely necessary to do otherwise (e.g. their donated sun machine runs solaris). [01:34] infinity: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/for_infinity/database.tar.gz [01:35] sistpoty : That's an awfully tiny DB... [01:36] infinity, you know, you might want to just get in touch with their QA people and ask to borrow some of *their* test datasets? [01:36] infinity: well... the tables should be ~1000 entries iirc [01:36] neuralis : Yes, I will be doing that too. [01:36] sistpoty : Yes, that's tiny. :) [01:37] infinity: hehe, but it was big enough for students (that actually had to do these sql-statements) *g* [01:37] neuralis : I have open dialogue with MySQL upstream about 5.0 in dapper, so I'll tap whatever resources I can get away with. [01:37] infinity, great. when asking, offer to receive their datasets under NDA if there's no other way - all we really care about is whether the tests run nicely on ubuntu. [01:38] neuralis : ... They'll be more than willing, they seem pretty keen on seeing us support 5.0 [01:38] cool. [01:39] (To be honest, I'm leaning toward 5.0 too, just cause I don't want to backport security fixes to 4.1 for 5 years... But I'm so not willing to commit without some hard facts) [01:40] yeah, +1 on 5.0 here, for a couple of reasons. === infinity ponders wandering downstairs for his last hotel breakfast... [01:40] I stopped using mysql somewhere at 3.x... so no clue about the latest changes [01:40] geez what sort of crazy network content-filters planet.ubuntu.com [01:40] :/ [01:41] sistpoty : It's grown up a lot since 3.23 [01:41] infinity: maybe I'll give it a try once i get to it ;) [01:42] sistpoty : It's now got every feature under the sun that people kept asking for (stored procedures, subqueries, standard data types, etc, etc), yet somehow maintains the age-old incredible speed. [01:42] mysql 3.23 still makes baby cthulhu cry. [01:42] sistpoty : Worth giving it a test. [01:42] neuralis : I had 3.23 on my colo machine until... Uhh.. 2 months ago. [01:42] neuralis : *cough* === zakame [n=zak@210.1.94.243] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:43] infinity, that's very unfortunate. [01:43] neuralis : Who needs fancy things like transactions anyway?.. 3.23 was basically a FAT filesystem with a SQL frontend. :) [01:44] (A fast one, though) === enrico_ is now known as enrico [01:44] hehe [01:44] infinity, yep, but i find myisam to be all but horrid in production, except in tightly controlled use cases. === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:45] pitti! [01:45] Good morning [01:46] Yo, pitti. [01:46] pitti : Heading to breakfast? [01:46] The Last Brekkie. [01:46] infinity: still want to shave, shower, etc. [01:47] infinity: just mail exchange with my gf for now :) [01:47] Bah. Cleanliness is for people who don't do software development. [01:47] haha === marilize [n=marilize@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:48] ah, you're going home today [01:48] these days went so fast [01:48] yes, this afternoon [01:48] elmo: please sync haddock (0.7-1) from unstable ubuntu override ok [01:49] damn my punctuation *g* === pef [n=loic@ubuntu/member/pef] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:50] Has anyone actually tested our Crack of the Day dapper CDs yet? [01:50] I'm terribly curious if they.. Uhm.. Boot. [01:50] (working otherwise would be even cooler) [01:54] infinity: thanks for the goffice build [01:55] mvo: can you please use -v when you merge packages? === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-34-119.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:56] ooh dapper cds [01:56] pitti: ups, yes [01:56] infinity, are there 3 different dailies for today? [01:57] oh no [01:57] just powerpc in different folders [01:58] mvo: I'd appreciate if you would close bugs when you've merged stuff. I spent some time this morning merging imagemagick because the bug was still open. :-/ [01:59] Mithrandir: I'm very sorry for that. I usually close the bugs, this one must have slipped through :( [01:59] pitti: thanks :) [02:00] mvo: ok, np. Slips happen. :-) [02:00] pitti: so I don't feel alone to ask people to use -v :p [02:00] hehe [02:00] Mithrandir: have you looked on this weird gtk ia32 hack? [02:01] Mithrandir: I've reassigned the bug to you, let me know if that's the wrong place :) [02:01] Mithrandir: I go over my accepted mails now and check if I forgot any other close [02:01] yay! I'm first in the phone support queue [02:02] there's a phone support queue? [02:02] uh, yes... === Aegir is now known as Awaygir [02:02] this is not ubuntu you're talking about, right? :) [02:02] no [02:03] Simira: you're still going to be home for a while, right? === zoe_ [n=zoe@p5112-ipad76osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:03] seb128: it's probably my bug, yes. [02:03] rather my private adsl line [02:03] Mithrandir: yes? [02:03] Simira, ah, makes sense. [02:03] Simira: goodie, dhl just called and they _still_ had the wrong address, so they'll drop by in a little while.. I might come home soon. ;-) [02:04] wrong address? Nonnegata or Holtegata? [02:05] they thought I lived in Holtegaten still. [02:05]