[12:03] <\sh> sabdfl: please ride the wild elmo !!!!!!!!!!!!!
[12:03] <mdke> he's not here \sh 
[12:03] <mdke> ;)
[12:03] <\sh> mdke: so WHAT?
[12:03] <mdke> fair enough
[12:04] <\sh> it was a RIDE REQUEST
[12:04] <Nafallo> oops
[12:06] <jdub> not many people have signed up to the page
[12:06] <crimsun> nice talk last night, jdub 
[12:06] <\sh> jdub: sorry dude that I was so drunk at that evening..that I pissed u off
[12:07] <jdub> thanks crimsun 
[12:07] <jdub> \sh, hrm?
[12:07] <ajmitch_> evening
[12:08] <\sh> jdub: yes.,..come one..I went on your nerves...but it doesn't matter
[12:08] <Simira> ajmitch_, jdub: know anything more about the thefts? Do you get any refund or insurance-money?
[12:09] <jdub> Simira, i know at least spiv and i have company insurance - ajmitch_, did you have travel insurance to cover it?
[12:09] <jdub> oh, you had a LTT lappy, right?
[12:09] <\sh> outch
[12:09] <ajmitch_> yeah, but travel insurancve will have to try & cover it
[12:09] <jdub> cool
[12:10] <\sh> tomorrow I have a really serious hangover
[12:10] <ajmitch_> we'll see what happens, I've got to contact claire again about the hotel into
[12:10] <ajmitch_> s/into/info/
[12:11] <ajmitch_> for now I
[12:11] <Simira> jdub: what about you?
[12:11] <ajmitch_> 'm just trying to enjoy the rest of my holiday :)
[12:11] <\sh> ajmitch_: don't worry
[12:11] <jdub> Simira, see above
[12:11] <\sh> be happy
[12:11] <Simira> jdub: ah, I just read "spiv"
[12:13] <\sh> oh dudes..../quit 0900 question about lady whaetever
[12:20] <elektranox> hello
[12:24] <elektranox> I only want to report a bug in gksu: if I insert more than 3 chars the X-Server crashed completly. [Ubuntu 5.10] 
[12:25] <crimsun> elektranox: bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[12:26] <Nafallo> elektranox: known :-)
[12:27] <Nafallo> elektranox: will be fixed when libgksuui1.0-1 arrives in main.
[12:27] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: not if he's using breezy?
[12:28] <Nafallo> elektranox: dapper, right? :-)
[12:29] <elektranox> yes
[12:29] <elektranox> dapper
[12:29] <elektranox> mh oh it's 6.04 sry
[12:30] <Nafallo> then the workaround is to kill this process:
[12:30] <Nafallo> /usr/bin/sudo -S -p GNOME_SUDO_PASS -v
[12:30] <Nafallo> on a terminal outside of X ofcourse
[12:31] <Nafallo> sudo from a terminal works, so sudo synaptic will still start it etc... :-)
[12:31] <elektranox> yes from terminal by sudo is ok I know
[12:35] <TerminX> anyone else upgrade today and now have fonts that look like crap?
[12:35] <Nafallo> TerminX: upgrade every half-hour, but no. they look like usual :-).
[12:35] <TerminX> I'm sure it's something in the new version of freetype but god, they look awful now, heh :\
[12:36] <TerminX> they look okay after dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig and selecting autohinter instead of native
[02:31] <jdub> hrm
[02:32] <jdub> need a new poll on the fridge
[02:35] <tritium> jdub, your next few stops on the tour are still TBD?  (Utah, San Francisco, Mexico)?
[02:36] <jdub> yeah
[02:39] <tritium> jdub, okay...but in the next few days, I presume?  You're not going to cancel them are you?
[02:40] <jdub> i'll definitely be in SFO
[02:40] <jdub> dunno about utah
[02:40] <jdub> definitely mexico
[02:40] <tritium> I see...Utah is within driving distance for me.
[02:42] <tritium> You're still welcome to stop in New Mexico before you go to Mexico
[02:42] <LaserJock> how about NV? ;-)
[02:45] <zul> tritium: oh good you can firebomb sco for us
[02:45] <tritium> zul, are they here in NM?
[02:45] <zul> utah
[02:46] <tritium> Oh, I see what you mean :)
[02:46] <zul> or a drive by
[02:46] <tritium> hm, I love ubuntu and all, but I don't think I'd get arrested over it ;)
[02:47] <zul> but you would be doing a public service :)
[02:48] <tritium> heh
[02:51] <anavim> I thought sco was done for
[02:53] <anavim> an internet sit-in to protest sco's behavior would be cool though
[02:53] <anavim> or similar gandhi-like tactic  :D
[02:54] <lamont> grep ^processor /proc/cpuinfo | tail -1; uname -a
[02:54] <lamont> processor       : 7
[02:54] <lamont> Linux nio 2.6.12-9-hppa64-smp #1 SMP Mon Oct 10 15:10:01 UTC 2005 parisc64 GNU/Linux
[02:54] <lamont> now that's a nice breezy machine
[02:55] <crimsun> hah, nice
[02:57] <Lathiat> heh
[02:57] <Lathiat> gimme :)
[02:58] <zul> lamont, is that the same one you had a ubz?
[02:58] <lamont> zul: no.  that's an N-class 8-way machine
[02:58] <zul> not bad
[03:02] <lamont> similar to the one that will be a porting machine in the DC once we can scrounge such a beast and ship it.
[03:02] <lamont> the one at UBZ was a 2-way A500 with a dead powersupply
[05:38] <jdub> need a new fridge poll
[05:44] <Keybuk> UbuntuBelowZero
[05:44] <Keybuk> 1) the floor
[05:44] <Keybuk> 2) the temperature
[05:44] <Keybuk> (from jbailey)
[05:45] <jdub> Keybuk, while you're here,
[05:46] <jdub> if the installer finds an adaptec device and a megaraid device in a particular order
[05:46] <Keybuk> After UbuntuBelowZero. I now have:
[05:46] <Keybuk> 1) a cold
[05:46] <Keybuk> 2) an upset stomach
[05:46] <Keybuk> 3) herpes
[05:46] <jdub> but an installed system finds them in the opposite order,
[05:46] <Keybuk> 4) all of the above
[05:46] <Keybuk> jdub: yeah, it does that a lot
[05:46] <jdub> what's a useful way to fix the installed system order?
[05:47] <jdub> sda moves
[05:47] <jdub> which makes the baby jesus cry
[05:47] <Keybuk> cotdeath
[05:47] <Keybuk> aside from blacklisting the annoying one, I can't think of anything
[05:47] <Keybuk> we don't try to keep sdXY things
[05:47] <jbailey> /etc/mkinitramfs/modules
[05:47] <jbailey> You can force the load order.
[05:48] <jdub> jbailey, order those?
[05:48] <jdub> ok
[05:48] <jdub> thanks
[05:48] <Keybuk> for dapper, we're fixing this by allowing root=/dev/by-uuid/blahblah type things
[05:50] <jbailey> I imagine that for dapper, the installer and the initramfs detection will probably be somewhat more unififed anyway for the cases where by-uuid isn't an option.
[05:56] <jdub> that worked - thanks
[05:57] <jdub> (providing tech support to my host!)
[06:11] <Keybuk> or whether he's stuck in some Truck-Stop cafe having been sold into servitude for not wearing the red curly wig
[06:26] <jbailey> Jordi's blog mentioned something about a flat tire.
[06:40] <jordi> Keybuk: I am in NYC!
[06:40] <jordi> After getting stuck at the border for a while tho.
[06:46] <Keybuk> jordi: did jblack let you honk his horn?
[07:19] <jordi> Keybuk: haha
[07:21] <Keybuk> I should go to bed soon really
[07:22] <highvoltage> Keybuk: you should have a 5) all of the above, and i didn't even attend!
[08:01] <Diablo-D3> hey, has anyone noticed the dissapearance of gimp-print?
[08:02] <Diablo-D3> the package is just completely missing
[08:02] <Diablo-D3> did it get renamed and someone forgot to setup a forward?
[08:03] <minghua> Diablo-D3: the source package is renamed to gutenprint
[08:05] <Diablo-D3> minghua: okay...
[08:05] <Diablo-D3> now here comes the $64k question
[08:05] <minghua> but it doesn't seem to be in ubuntu yet
[08:05] <Diablo-D3> what package do I install to get gimp to print again?
[08:05] <Diablo-D3> gargh.
[08:06] <Diablo-D3> because it'd be pretty bad if gimp users cant print =P
[08:08] <Amaranth> um
[08:08] <Amaranth> you must not be on breezy
[08:08] <Diablo-D3> Im not
[08:08] <Amaranth> oh, yeah, that's only in dapper
[08:09] <anavim> not seeing it in breezy
[08:09] <Diablo-D3> okay
[08:09] <Diablo-D3> bleh
[08:09] <Amaranth> upstream changed the name of the project so debian changed the name of the package
[08:09] <anavim> guten-print or gutenprint
[08:09] <Diablo-D3> not only does gimp not show the file->print option...
[08:09] <Diablo-D3> firefox dies if I try to print
[08:09] <anavim> cupsys-driver-gimpprint is there...
[08:10] <Diablo-D3> anavim: having that installed doesnt convince gimp to enable printing.
[08:10] <Diablo-D3> /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components/libgfxps.so: undefined symbol: FTC_Image_Cache_New
[08:10] <Diablo-D3> Im thinking its related to that.
[08:11] <crimsun> it's the new libfreetype6
[08:11] <crimsun> there are bugs open in Debian for it already
[08:11] <Diablo-D3> you know what the great part is?
[08:11] <Diablo-D3> kde apps arent affected <3
[08:11] <Diablo-D3> *effected
[08:12] <Amaranth> no, you had it right the first time
[08:12] <Diablo-D3> er, oh.
[08:12] <Diablo-D3> doh
[08:12] <Diablo-D3> I feel weird having to buy print drivers, btw
[08:13] <Diablo-D3> for $40, I can use every printer that cups doesnt already support.
[08:13] <Diablo-D3> (turboprint.de, btw)
[08:13] <Diablo-D3> and the drivers work with ubuntu fine
[08:17] <Diablo-D3> what, no one is going to point and laugh
[08:17] <Diablo-D3> ?
[08:17] <minghua> Diablo-D3: you got bitten by the libfreetype ABI breakage
[08:17] <Diablo-D3> minghua: yeah,  crimsun said
[08:22] <Diablo-D3> any word on when thats going to be fixed?
[08:24] <Amaranth> when all those apps get rebuilt :P
[08:24] <Diablo-D3> hah
[08:25] <Diablo-D3> btw, 2400dpi is amazing
[08:26] <Amaranth> meh, 2400dpi doesn't make my english papers look any better
[08:27] <Diablo-D3> well
[08:27] <Diablo-D3> atleast the text of said english paper will be readable =P
[08:58] <pef> hello
[10:32] <Alessio> sorry
[10:34] <Alessio> i'm an ubuntu member and i have signed CoC, who should i contact for @ubuntu.com?
[10:38] <Nafallo> Alessio: you get it automatically when you are in that team
[10:39] <Alessio> oh great..
[12:13] <Nafallo> elmo: please sync libdc0 from debian/unstable (ubuntu override okey)
[12:48] <pitti> Hi folks!
[12:48] <Nafallo> morning pitti :-)
[12:51] <slomo> infinity, lamont-away: please give-back gtksourceview-sharp, gtksourceview-sharp2 and seahorse
[12:56] <sivang> pitti: Martin!
[12:56] <sivang> pitti: how was your flight?
[12:57] <siretart> hey martin, morning sebastien!
[12:59] <pitti> siretart: Hi!
[12:59] <pitti> sivang: pretty smooth, although I had to run 2 km in the Frankfurt airport
[12:59] <seb128> hi siretart, pitti
[12:59] <sivang> pitti: lol, run 2km? didn't they have the shuttles ready?
[01:00] <seb128> pitti: welcome to the club :)
[01:00] <pitti> hi seb128 
[01:00] <siretart> technical question: what shall we do about library package, where we have choosen to strip off the 'c2' suffix, but the debian maintainer insists on having a 'c2' suffix?
[01:00] <seb128> pitti: with 1h20 between flights, I had to run a lot to catch my next plane
[01:00] <pitti> sivang: the Frankfurt airport is a mess...
[01:00] <sivang> seb128: bon jour seb :)
[01:00] <siretart> example: we have binary package 'libfoo', debian has 'libfooc2'.
[01:00] <Nafallo> sivang: that's one word, bonjour :-)
[01:00] <sivang> pitti: I had to wait like for 20 minutes in LHR for the shuttles to arrive :)
[01:00] <sivang> Nafallo: oops
[01:00] <seb128> pitti: getting the boarding pass, going through security (lot of people waiting here) and running all over the place
[01:01] <pitti> seb128: me too, I even had to put off my shoes for separate scanning
[01:01] <sivang> Nafallo: probably that's why Seb is not answering :)
[01:02] <pitti> seb128: and they wanted my laptop again
[01:02] <seb128> pitti: utch, security guys really don't like you it seems
[01:02] <Nafallo> sivang: naah, he just ignores you ;-)
[01:02] <seb128> hi sivang Nafallo
[01:02] <Nafallo> morning seb128 :-)
[01:02] <seb128> no, I just don't say hi 20 times
[01:02] <sivang> :-D
[01:06] <seb128> elmo: gazpacho sync please
[01:06] <slomo> seb128: are you aware of librsvg2-2 disappeared from the archives?
[01:07] <seb128>  *** 2.12.5-0ubuntu1 0
[01:07] <seb128>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com breezy/main Packages
[01:07] <seb128>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Packages
[01:07] <seb128> slomo: it didn't?
[01:08] <slomo> seb128: hmm... up-to-date pbuilder: libgnome2.0-cil: Depends: librsvg2-2 (>= 2.9.5) but it is not going to be installed
[01:08] <slomo> seb128: same for seahorse yesterday for example
[01:08] <seb128> not going to be installed is usually a broken dep
[01:09] <slomo> hmm
[01:09] <seb128> slomo: I've closed you gazpacho merge bug, I've asked a sync yesterday for it
[01:09] <slomo> seb128: thanks... i filed it only because you didn't file one and i didn't want the work to be done two times
[01:09] <seb128> slomo: there is no need to file a bug every time you ask a sync
[01:10] <slomo> in case of universe there is for merging... it's our policy ;) and otherwise our little tool gets confused which shows the unassigned, assigned and fixed merges
[01:10] <Nafallo> our MOTU-tool to keep track depends on it ;-)
[01:11] <slomo> seb128: oh sorry because of the rsvg thing... it isn't installable because of libgsf-1... i really need to wake up before saying something ;)
[01:13] <seb128> slomo: I'm going to work on libgsf today
[01:13] <seb128> will be fixed soon
[01:14] <seb128> slomo, Nafallo: where is your tool?
[01:14] <slomo> thanks :) can you notify me then? i've currently >5 packages which ftbfs because of that
[01:14] <Nafallo> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/
[01:14] <seb128> slomo: sure
[01:15] <slomo> ok... /me gets some food now :) bbl
[01:16] <seb128> same here
[01:16] <seb128> later
[01:37] <Nafallo> elmo: please sync tora from debian/unstable (ubuntu override okey)
[02:06] <seb128> 8 merge bugs for avifile? what are you guys doing ... ?
[02:06] <Mithrandir> seb128: ARE WE THERE YET? :-)
[02:07] <seb128> MOTU ON CRACK
[02:07] <tseng> seb128: iz gtk boog
[02:08] <Mithrandir> I didn't know the MOTUs where implemented using GTK+.
[02:08] <Nafallo> there are more than 8 :-)
[02:08] <seb128> Nafallo: are you doing autofilling?
[02:09] <mdke> some problems with LP it seems
[02:09] <seb128> ?
[02:10] <Nafallo> seb128: nope. a python-script that filed two indentical bugs right after each other for siretart. now lp seems to have a bug found :-P.
[02:11] <siretart> seb128: there is something really weird going on with lp
[02:11] <siretart> seb128: I filed ONE (1) bug with the malone email interface
[02:11] <siretart> seb128: I'm not sure if there couldn't be actually 2 emails sent out because of some problems with the script I'm using to do that, I already fixed that
[02:12] <siretart> seb128: the problem is, that appearently launchpad keeps on processing the same email as new. unfortunatly, noone from the launchpad guys seem to be awake atm
[02:13] <seb128> utch
[02:13] <siretart> yeah :/
[02:13] <Nafallo> I wonder why the avifile bug is only even numbers...
[02:13] <Nafallo> is there other bugs filed for the odd numbers aswell somewhere? :-/
[02:13] <siretart> try to finde one :)
[02:14] <Nafallo> *puuh* :-P
[02:29] <siretart> seb128: I will write a mass merge email when launchpad stops filing new bugs. until then, I have to wait :(
[02:30] <seb128> siretart: I've marked the bug as dup
[02:31] <siretart> they keep on getting more. thats the problem here :(
[02:31] <seb128> yeah
[02:41] <slomo> seb128: thanks for fixing librsvg :)
[02:49] <seb128> slomo: np
[02:51] <slomo> seb128: am i right that you can upload to debian? do you want to sponsor 2 packages by me? gnome-user-share and service-discovery-applet? they just need some polishing before
[02:52] <seb128> I can upload to Debian, but I'm quite busy and I prefer to not start beeing sponsor for new packages, I've enough atm
[02:52] <slomo> ok, np :)
[02:52] <seb128> for GNOME stuff, #gnome-debian is the right place
[02:52] <seb128> you can join pkg-gnome if you are interested
[02:54] <slomo> (on gimpnet?) i'll ask there for these 2 packages after lool is ok with my wavpack package ;)
[02:54] <seb128> k
[03:12] <\sh> hmmm
[03:12] <\sh> glade-gnome is not installable
[03:12] <\sh> (breezy that is)
[03:13] <seb128> that's gnome1
[03:13] <seb128> who cares :)
[03:13] <seb128> this package should have been dropped
[03:14] <siretart> thats the spirit! :)
[03:14] <\sh> ah -2 is what i want :)
[03:20] <seb128> elmo: aalib sync please
[03:21] <seb128> ups, this one has already been required by other people
[03:38] <seb128> elmo: pyorbit sync from Debian please
[03:39] <seb128> siretart: are you sure that's not your mail setup sending the same mail for the launchpad dups?
[03:41] <siretart> seb128: I keep on checking my maillog
[03:41] <siretart> >> grep new@bugs.launchpad.net /var/log/exim4/mainlog
[03:41] <siretart> 2005-11-12 12:49:21 1Eatsm-0004H6-RK => new@bugs.launchpad.net R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=fiordland.ubuntu.com [82.211.81.145] 
[03:41] <siretart> 2005-11-12 12:49:21 1Eatsn-0004HC-GB => new@bugs.launchpad.net R=dnslookup T=remote_smtp H=fiordland.ubuntu.com [82.211.81.145] 
[03:41] <siretart> not any other mails are sent to new@bugs.launchpad.net since then
[03:43] <ogra> siretart, is there any kind of autoreply/bounce in your exim config ?
[03:43] <siretart> ogra: even if there was, all outgoing mails would be logged to the logfile
[03:45] <zyga> ogra: hi
[03:45] <siretart> does anyone happen to know who is in charge for the MTA on bugs.launchpad.net?
[03:45] <zyga> ogra: are you the author of hwdb-client?
[03:45] <ogra> hey zyga 
[03:45] <ogra> yup
[03:45] <zyga> ogra: bash! :-)
[03:45] <zyga> for not following the ubuntu code of conduct :P
[03:46] <zyga> ogra: you neglected i18n, any i18n 
[03:46] <ogra> huh ? 
[03:46] <ogra> thats not written in the CoC :)
[03:46] <zyga> ogra: hmm /me checks (if not CoC then something similar)
[03:46] <zyga> anyway
[03:46] <zyga> do you have plans on adding i18n?
[03:46] <ogra> zyga, i planned to fix that up for dapper... but no promises, its not very high prio on my list
[03:46] <zyga> ogra: cool, I'm partially done
[03:47] <zyga> ogra: I  was hoping to give you patches
[03:47] <ogra> thats fine with me
[03:47] <ogra> i will also put it up in a bzr tree at some point... but curretnly merge work and ltsp are higher priority for me...
[03:48] <zyga> okay, if it appears in bzr give me a hint
[03:48] <zyga> I'll use breezy's sources as base okay?
[03:48] <ogra> will announce it
[03:48] <zyga> (unless dapper brings something significant)
[03:48] <ogra> yup, thats fine
[03:49] <ogra> the only requested change i currently have is to add a question in the end to optionally give your mailadress if you want to participate in kernel testing...
[03:49] <ogra> and the older bugs that idle in bugzilla indeed
[03:49] <zyga> just make sure you use gettext in that patch, I'll nicely merge with my stuff ;
[03:50] <ogra> will do
[03:51] <zyga> ogra: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/, second list item from the top
[03:51] <zyga> aww, third list item
[03:52] <ogra> and ? that doesnt mean i violate anything :)
[03:52] <zyga> you did not follow that point, that's for sure ;-)
[03:53] <ogra> as our desktop doesnt include the best "accessibility infrastructure" yet
[04:04] <siretart> seb128: are you doing all those merges manually via webinterface?
[04:04] <seb128> siretart: yep
[04:04] <seb128> I don't trust the mail stuff :p
[04:04] <siretart> hehe
[04:05] <siretart> thanks. I was doing the first 20 myself, but now I rather wait until that terror ends :/
[04:06] <seb128> launchpad guys are on it
[04:06] <seb128> I guess it'll be fixed soon now
[04:09] <siretart> seb128: they are? great news
[04:10] <siretart> I'm really sorry for the mess :(
[04:10] <seb128> not your fault don't worry
[04:27] <seb128> siretart: mail moved, should stop the bug creation
[04:27] <seb128> elmo: please sync pxlib
[04:28] <siretart> seb128: great news. 
[04:28] <siretart> seb128: in future, who should I contact when such bugs occurs?
[04:28] <seb128> #launchpad
[04:28] <siretart> hm. I tried, but there was no one responding :(
[04:29] <seb128> no luck today because that's saturday and most of launchpad guys are travelling back from UBZ or just arrived home
[04:29] <siretart> I thought so, okay
[04:30] <siretart> seb128: did you catch all dups or are some left?
[04:30] <seb128> siretart: I think I caught them
[04:32] <zyga> where can I address kernel howto questions?
[04:32] <siretart> seb128: thanks a lot!
[04:32] <ogra> zyga, #ubuntu-kerne
[04:32] <ogra> err #ubuntu-kernel
[04:32] <zyga> (seems asleep)
[04:33] <ogra> its saturday :)
[04:33] <seb128> siretart: np
[04:34] <zyga> darn
[04:34] <zyga> I need a kernel with squashfs and unionfs on monday :/
[04:35] <highvoltage> sounds handy for a livecd.
[04:35] <zyga> exactly
[04:36] <zyga> I'm looking for an easy way to build a snapshot of my current install as a live cd
[04:36] <zyga> I've found linux-live.org
[04:37] <zyga> but I really don't know how to build the kernel based on what I'm running that would also include those modules
[04:37] <highvoltage> squashfs comes with the kernel, you can just choose it with your configure options, i'm not sure if unionfs comes with default kernel yet, but it's an easy install.
[04:37] <highvoltage> (if you have your kernel tree somewhere)
[04:37] <zyga> unionfs is as a source 
[04:38] <zyga> I've never really built kernels before, I've got  linux-tree and linux-headers packages
[04:38] <highvoltage> i think the easiest way to start is to download a kernel from kernel.org, apt-get install libncurses5-dev and do a make menuconfig
[04:38] <highvoltage> but i think there's a proper ubuntu way too. hold on..
[04:38] <seb128> infinity, lamont-away: please give a retry to libwpd
[04:38] <zyga> is there any way to feed the config I'm running to that kernel?
[04:39] <highvoltage> zyga: http://wiki.clug.org.za/index.php/How_do_I_compile_my_own_kernel_into_a_deb%3F
[04:39] <seb128> do you use an ubuntu linux package?
[04:39] <zyga> highvoltage: thanks :-)
[04:39] <zyga> seb128: yes
[04:40] <seb128> zyga: /boot/config-... is the config
[04:40] <seb128> learning is good ;)
[04:41] <zyga> thanks guys, I'll read on and try to make this work
[04:41] <zyga> with a bit of luck I might end up with ubuntu-snapshod-as-livecd package that does the work
[04:46] <mdke> ubuntu-desktop is installable!!
[04:46] <mdke> awesome
[04:47] <zyga> seb128: how to pass -j3 for the make invoked by make-kpkg
[04:47] <zyga> I've got a SMP box here and I'd like to use it
[04:47] <zyga> seb128: nothing, sorry :>
[05:01] <zyga> cool, it builds nicely
[05:04] <robertj_> *sigh* /. is already carrying a link to Dapper Screenshots...
[05:04] <bob2> haha
[05:04] <zyga> what?!?
[05:05] <luis_> maybe I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention, but doesn't it look like breezy?
[05:05] <robertj_> luis: nonono, it says very distinctly in the bottom right hand corner of the greeter that it is Dapper...
[05:05] <siretart> yippie!. gjdoc_0.7.6 build depends on java-gcj-compat-dev, which itself builddepends on gjdoc (>= 0.7.6)
[05:05] <siretart> life is great, isn't it? :/
[05:06] <luis_> robertj_: oh, well, then
[05:41] <Chipzz> jdub: sorry to hear about the laptop man
[05:41] <Chipzz> jdub: I hope you didn't loose to much work?
[05:42] <jdub> about 5 weeks
[05:42] <jdub> had a good backup before i left
[05:42] <jdub> but had to reconsitute my talk and so on from a muuuuch earlier version
[05:42] <Chipzz> sucks :/
[05:43] <Chipzz> but fortunately it was on the last day I guess
[05:43] <jdub> it'll be ok, i'm drowning myself in positivity
[05:43] <jdub> actually, that was the annoying bit
[05:43] <jdub> if it were earlier, losing my credit card wouldn't have been such a hassle ;-)
[05:44] <Chipzz> hmyea
[05:44] <Chipzz> but kinda ironic that that's what you get for doing work which benefits the public
[05:44] <jsgotangco> jdub: sonia replied back we've fixed things already
[05:45] <jdub> jsgotangco, great :-)
[05:45] <jdub> Chipzz, i haven't been contributing enough to montreal's drug industry
[05:46] <Chipzz> jdub: *g*
[05:46] <jsgotangco> haha
[05:48] <jsgotangco> dapper sshots hah
[05:49] <mdke> mmm dapper
[05:49] <mdke> i was thinking recently...
[05:49] <mdke> the equivalent name for "colony" would tip us off about the duck/dragon controversy
[05:50] <mdke> but it turns out they have the same collective noun, goddammit
[05:51] <jsgotangco> a colony of ducks
[05:52] <siretart> it is a flight of drakes
[05:52] <mdke> yes it is
[05:52] <mdke> but a "flight" applies to dragons and ducks equally
[05:53] <jsgotangco> well ducks fly
[05:54] <jdub> so we were looking for interesting ambiguities during UBZ
[05:54] <jdub> and someone mentioned to me that both ducks and dragons lay eggs
[05:55] <jdub> i told mdz about this fascinating discovery
[05:55] <mdke> both breathe fire too
[05:55] <mdke> oh no
[05:55] <jdub> and pondered out loud how we could abuse it
[05:55] <jdub> when he turned to me
[05:55] <jdub> glaring
[05:55] <jdub> and said
[05:55] <seb128> hum
[05:55] <jdub> "DRAGONS DON'T EXIST."
[05:55] <mdke> lol
[05:55] <jsgotangco> hehehe
[05:55] <siretart> hey jdub!
[05:55] <jdub> i think we know which side of the fence mdz stands
[05:55] <mdke> mdz just lives in this crazy world with no dragons
[05:56] <siretart> hbd.com
[05:56] <jsgotangco> we do have dragons except that its only by name and they don't fly (komodo dragon for example)
[05:56] <mdke> heh
[05:56] <jsgotangco> i've seen this slashdot entry about a prehistoric godzilla
[05:56] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:57] <Simira> stupid mdz. Of course dragons exists!
[06:01] <robertj_> Dragons should be a strategic marketing choice for widening Ubuntu's appeal among women
[06:02] <desrt> if dragons don't exist then how come the new ubuntu version is named after one?
[06:02] <jsgotangco> women are into dragons?
[06:02] <robertj_> jsgota: yeah
[06:02] <mdke> desrt, it's not
[06:02] <Simira> they are?
[06:02] <Simira> I mean, we are?
[06:02] <desrt> if you wanted it named after a duck you should have gone for like "Mediocre Mallard"
[06:03] <Simira> I thought that was more about the knight killing the dragon, desrt?
[06:03] <robertj_> It's right after the Doplhin phase and before the ceramic crap phase
[06:03] <mdke> desrt, all the Ubuntu versions have been named after unspectacular animals
[06:03] <Nafallo> desrt: it isn't :-). it's a god damn duck! ;-)
[06:03] <mdke> of course it's a duck
[06:03] <Simira> Nafallo: IT'S A DRAGON!
[06:03] <Simira> hrmf...
[06:03] <mdke> this dragon business is just a coincidence
[06:04] <Nafallo> Simira: IT'S A DUCK! :-)
[06:04] <desrt> mdke; a badger that also happens to be breezy is quite spectacular in my books
[06:04] <Simira> DRAGON!
[06:04] <mdke> lol
[06:04] <mdke> desrt, so is a duck which also happens to be dapper
[06:04] <seb128> ducks are just boring
[06:04] <Nafallo> Simira: maswan even has pictures of a couple of them :-P
[06:04] <desrt> all ducks are dapper
[06:04] <seb128> dragons rock
[06:04] <desrt> except for diseased ones
[06:05] <desrt> they just looks really sweet
[06:05] <Simira> why aren't they dapper ducks then, eh?
[06:05] <desrt> s/looks/look/
[06:05] <Simira> oh, no...
[06:05] <janimo> I am waiting for the Pining Parrot
[06:05] <desrt> because 'dapper duck' isn't as cool as 'mediocre mallard'
[06:05] <Simira> Freaky Ferret
[06:05] <Simira> :)
[06:05] <neuralis> i'd rather my server breathes friggin fire than swims around lazily on a pond.
[06:05] <desrt> i want to know what happened to the dapper dingo!
[06:05] <Treenaks> hollandse haring?
[06:05] <mdke> neuralis, hopefully it won't do either
[06:05] <jdub> next release will start with E
[06:05] <jdub> so i'm pitching for Edgy Eagle or similar
[06:06] <desrt> the excellent eggplant
[06:06] <neuralis> jdub, i was partial to elegant elephant. 
[06:06] <desrt> [...] 
[06:06] <siretart> how about angry aardvark *g*
[06:06] <mdke> elephants don't exist!
[06:06] <siretart> lol
[06:06] <neuralis> mdke :-D
[06:06] <Treenaks> lumpy lion
[06:06] <desrt> mdke; my baby sister got stepped on by an elephant.  she died.
[06:06] <desrt> they exist.
[06:06] <neuralis> zealous zebra?
[06:06] <siretart> hrhr
[06:07] <jdub> the release after dapper is definitely going to be more edgy than elegant
[06:07] <Treenaks> Glorious Gentoo?
[06:07] <Nafallo> neuralis: we are following the alphabet here ;-)
[06:07] <neuralis> Nafallo, the alphabet doesn't exist.
[06:07] <mdke> did everyone see that site that someone wrote to generate ubuntu release names? i forget where i saw it
[06:07] <Nafallo> ehm, :-P
[06:07] <Treenaks> Nafallo: the very special South African alphabet that goes 'W, H, B, D, E' ?
[06:07] <mdke> maybe sounder
[06:08] <desrt> hmm
[06:08] <Nafallo> Treenaks: nope, we started from dapper forward. don't you ppl read mails? :-P
[06:08] <neuralis> treenaks: Wait! Here Be Dragons, Edgar!
[06:08] <desrt> the ubuntu release name letters are clearly spelling out some monoalphabetic encryption key
[06:08] <desrt> everyone pay attention!
[06:08] <Treenaks> neuralis: then dapper _should_ have been Angry Aardvark
[06:08] <siretart> edgy elk?
[06:09] <slomo> eager elephant like tseng proposed ;)
[06:11] <neuralis> effervescent estemmenosuchus? :)
[06:12] <Treenaks> 
[06:13] <Treenaks> please stop crashing your firmware
[06:14] <Treenaks> desrt: "he's an animal"
[06:14] <Keybuk> Mark will have to loose some weight first ;)
[06:14] <desrt> :)
[06:15] <Treenaks> desrt: have a look at wiki/ExampleContent ;)
[06:15] <Treenaks> desrt: especially the XCF proposal
[06:15] <janimo> Keybuk, is your bootchart package different from the one in sid?
[06:16] <Keybuk> janimo: yeah, the one in sid just replaces init with bootchart
[06:16] <Keybuk> which is a bit late for Ubuntu, we do a lot of stuff in initramfs
[06:17] <Keybuk> mine installs itself as an initramfs scripts and hooks
[06:17] <jdub> Keybuk, 'lose'
[06:18] <Treenaks> or loosen
[06:18] <Treenaks> ;)
[06:19] <desrt> Treenaks; oh i do love those
[06:19] <Treenaks> jdub: how did you like the extremely-long-talk video?
[06:19] <desrt> Treenaks; my friend made one of those of himself
[06:19] <desrt> Treenaks; with all of his pants and shirts
[06:19] <Treenaks> desrt: cool :)
[06:19] <jdub> Treenaks, only watched bits of it - will have to watch again some time :-)
[06:20] <Treenaks> <SCENE DELETED>
[06:20] <Nafallo> Treenaks: ohoh? where is that video availible for my hungry wget? :-)
[06:20] <ogra> Keybuk, no luck with bootsplash on ltsp :/
[06:21] <Treenaks> Nafallo: Not yet.
[06:21] <ogra> s/bootsplash/bootchart
[06:21] <Treenaks> Nafallo: Once jdub's World Tour is over, I'll make it available
[06:21] <Nafallo> Treenaks: so where will it be? :-)
[06:21] <Treenaks> Nafallo: I'll post a bittorrent link on my blog (which is on planet)
[06:21] <Keybuk> accidentally discovering a pant-less sabdfl on the desktop would be disturbing
[06:21] <Nafallo> nice :-)
[06:22] <Treenaks> Keybuk: "We need to keep the content as in-offensive as possible" is a nice note on that page too :)
[06:22] <Keybuk> ogra: no luck in which way ... did you install the package?  did it regenerate the initramfs to include "bin/nanosleep" and "scripts/init-top/initramfs" ?  is there a S99zzz-bootchart-stop in rc2.d ?
[06:22] <ogra> Keybuk, all my mounted dirs are read only ... they get read write very late in the bootprocess
[06:23] <Keybuk> ogra: that's ok ... it uses /dev/ as the place to live throughout the boot process as it's the only bit of the filesystem that survives into userspace
[06:23] <ogra> i get a /var/log/bootchart dir, butr nothing in it indeed
[06:23] <Keybuk> right
[06:23] <ogra> so it gets copied from somewhere in the end ? 
[06:23] <Keybuk> can you do the following for me
[06:24] <Keybuk> gunzip -c /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r) | cpio -t | egrep "(nanosleep|bootchart)"
[06:24] <highvoltage> Keybuk: it might encourage more woman to get involved in ubuntu?
[06:25] <ogra> bin/nanosleep
[06:25] <ogra> 22239 blocks
[06:25] <ogra> scripts/init-top/bootchart
[06:25] <ogra> Keybuk ^^
[06:25] <Keybuk> highvoltage: the first time I ever met Mark, he'd just come out of the shower and was wearing a bath-robe ... it was the most interesting "hi, I'm your new boss" experience I think I've had
[06:25] <Keybuk> ogra: and that's the initramfs that gets given to the clients?
[06:25] <ogra> lol
[06:25] <ogra> yup
[06:25] <highvoltage> Keybuk: lol!
[06:25] <ogra> i'm in the chroot
[06:26] <Keybuk> ogra: ok, look in /dev/.bootchart -- does that directory exist?
[06:26] <highvoltage> Keybuk: the first time i met him, i was filthy, been cleaning up a bunch of really old computers, i think that was even worse for me
[06:26] <ogra> Keybuk, nope
[06:26] <Keybuk> ogra: ok, does /etc/rc2.d/S99zzz-bootchart-stop exist ?
[06:27] <ogra> yup
[06:27] <Keybuk> when that runs, is /var/log writable?
[06:28] <ogra> yup
[06:28] <Keybuk> ok...
[06:28] <Keybuk> edit that for me, and comment out the "clean_jail" line right at the bottom
[06:28] <ogra> it gets writable  in S32 of rcS.d
[06:29] <ogra> right before create_chart ? 
[06:29] <ogra> done
[06:29] <Keybuk> then reboot
[06:29] <ogra> one sec ...
[06:32] <ogra> still nothing
[06:32] <Keybuk> right, do you have a /dev/.bootchart now?
[06:33] <ogra> nope
[06:33] <Keybuk> ok ... this suggests that the initramfs bit isn't getting run
[06:34] <Keybuk> can you reboot and add "break" to the kernel command-line
[06:34] <ogra> i have .initramfs-tools , .static and .udevdb
[06:34] <Keybuk> oh, and take off "splash"
[06:34] <ogra> there is no usplash in ltsp yet
[06:34] <Keybuk> ok
[06:34] <Keybuk> wel, boot it up with break, and it'll drop you in the initramfs
[06:35] <Keybuk> check that scripts/init-top/bootchart exists there
[06:35] <Keybuk> and that /dev/.bootchart exists there too
[06:35] <ogra> oki
[06:35] <Keybuk> probably also ps and see whether a bunch of "bootchart bottom" processes are running
[06:36] <highvoltage> ogra: how much more ram does usplash take?
[06:36] <hunger_> There are some packages suggesting/recommending ssh. Shouldnn't that be openssh-client/serve?
[06:37] <ogra> highvoltage, donno, i havent experimented with it yet...  but way to much imho
[06:37] <ogra> the prob is that we need to have the framebuffer modules loaded, they eat the memory...
[06:39] <highvoltage> ogra: i was just thinking about the 32MB target. usplash will make that slightly more difficult.
[06:39] <ogra> as all modules will
[06:39] <ogra> i think we'll add a lowmem option you can set... this will avoid sound, local devices and usplash
[06:39] <ogra> neither of there will work with 32M
[06:39] <ogra> s/there/these
[06:40] <highvoltage> ouch
[06:40] <highvoltage> sorry, i read the rest now.
[06:40] <highvoltage> ogra: i think that's a good idea. most 'new' second hand pc's have 128mb RAM.
[06:40] <highvoltage> and if your old computers are still using 32MB, you should probably consider getting some free computers with more ram.
[06:41] <ogra> i think our default target will be 64M but with a lowmem option you can castrate it down to 32M 
[06:42] <ogra> Keybuk, scripts/init-top/bootchart doesnt exist
[06:42] <Keybuk> right
[06:42] <ogra> neither does /dev/.bootchart
[06:42] <Keybuk> which initramfs do you give to the client?
[06:42] <ogra> hmm there are actually two...
[06:42] <ogra> one taken from tftp and the other one from the chroot 
[06:43] <ogra> let me try something... 
[06:43] <Keybuk> the one from the chroot is almost certainly not the one :)
[06:43] <jbailey> Keybuk: I suppose I can take initramfs out of my nick highlight now... =)
[06:43] <Keybuk> you may need to regenerate the tftp one so it includes the script
[06:43] <Keybuk> jbailey: why?
[06:43] <Keybuk> what's wrong with initramfs?
[06:43] <Keybuk> jbailey: do you not like it anymore? :p
[06:43] <ogra> Keybuk, right, and i forgot to run ltsp-update-kernels to link them together...
[06:44] <ogra> lets try another boot
[06:44] <Keybuk> do that gunzip...egrep to make sure the initramfs has both of the bits in
[06:45] <jbailey> Keybuk: Not at all.  But you and Adam certainly seem to have it well in hand, I probably don't need to look at IRC everytime someone mentions it. =)
[06:45] <ogra> i'm sure it will work now...
[06:45] <ogra> was a silly mistake on my side
[06:47] <jbailey> Keybuk: Specifically, I'm more impressed that what I was showing off at UDU is still basically what we wound up going with. =)
[06:48] <ogra> hmm, strange... i lost my console on the thin client. ...
[06:48] <Keybuk> jbailey: which bit?
[06:48] <jbailey> The hook/scripts structure.
[06:49] <ogra> WOAH
[06:49] <ogra> i have a working bootsplash !!! in ltsp :)
[06:49] <Keybuk> now share the png
[06:49] <highvoltage> ogra: does it take much more mem?
[06:49] <ogra> Keybuk, not bootchart :)
[06:50] <ogra> i dunno why i lost the console, i cant get to it
[06:50] <Keybuk> heh
[06:50] <hunger_> Would it be possible to get all those transitional packages out of dapper/main?
[06:50] <ogra> and usplash times out :/
[06:50] <jbailey> ogra: Didn't bootsplash work for Breezy?  It was supposed to.
[06:50] <Keybuk> heh, maybe you got the initramfs wrong?
[06:50] <jbailey> usplash, rather.
[06:50] <jdub> jbailey, he meant bootchart
[06:50] <jbailey> Keybuk: I never tested it, but I did get 3 or 4 success reports.
[06:50] <ogra> jbailey, nope... 
[06:51] <jdub> no he didn't
[06:51] <ogra> jdub, both :)
[06:51] <jdub> ogra, START MAKING SENSE! :)
[06:51] <ogra> lol
[06:51] <highvoltage> hehe
[06:51] <jbailey> jdub has clearly not recovered from UBZ with expectations like that.
[06:51] <highvoltage> jdub: too much coffee?
[06:51] <Treenaks> wrong timezone?
[06:52] <ogra> jdub, i'm playing with th initramfs... so i work on both ends ;)
[06:52] <ogra> hmm, where is my console gone ....
[06:52] <Treenaks> who needs a console :)
[06:53] <jdub> Keybuk, did we have no-name-yet.com at that first UK meeting?
[06:54] <jdub> Keybuk, or did we set it up there?
[06:56] <Keybuk> set it up there I think
[06:59] <ogra> Keybuk, ok, /dev/.bootchart/ is there now
[06:59] <Keybuk> ogra: is there png in /var/log/bootchart ?
[06:59] <ogra> nope
[06:59] <Keybuk> ok ... so let's debug that
[06:59] <ogra> oh, it seems it took some time
[06:59] <Keybuk> is there a /var/log/bootchart.tgz ?
[06:59] <ogra> it just appeared :)
[07:00] <Keybuk> ah
[07:00] <Keybuk> heh
[07:00] <Keybuk> are you sure that your addition of usplash didn't break your boot a bit? :p
[07:00] <Keybuk> also if the client is somewhat gutless, generating the chart could take a while
[07:00] <ogra> when i ran ps ax after boot it had: 9674 ?        S      0:00 /bin/sh -e /etc/rc2.d/S99zzz-bootchart-stop start
[07:00] <Keybuk> ok
[07:00] <Keybuk> it was still booting then
[07:00] <ogra> its a VIA 533 Mhz 
[07:00] <ogra> with 128M
[07:00] <Keybuk> let's see the chart
[07:04] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/breezy-20051113-1.png
[07:05] <ogra> i already wiped a lot of the uneeded bootscripts but it still takes 1:24 to boot  :(
[07:05] <Keybuk> well, straight off, most of your time is spent in dexconf
[07:05] <Keybuk> the rest in S40hotplug
[07:06] <ogra> is there a way to supress kgameportd from being started at all ?
[07:06] <ogra> its useless
[07:06] <Keybuk> that's a kernel thread
[07:06] <ogra> mdz, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/breezy-20051113-1.png <-- thin client bootchart
[07:07] <Keybuk> blacklist the joydev driver, or whatever one causes it to be started
[07:07] <ogra> Keybuk, thats enough ? 
[07:07] <Keybuk> yeah, it just a kthread that deals with the gameport
[07:07] <siretart> joysticks on ltsp clients! rock!
[07:07] <siretart> ;)
[07:07] <ogra> lol
[07:07] <Keybuk> could be a PCI driver that's loading it also, so fiddle a little
[07:07] <ogra> fine then :)
[07:08] <Keybuk> look in /sys, find the driver, then find the devices bound to it
[07:08] <ogra> i havent looked at the modules stuff yet ...
[07:08] <Keybuk> though it's almost not work worrying about, kernel threads don't really affect the system
[07:08] <zyga_laptop> ogra: how do you generate that chart?
[07:08] <ogra> i guess its something generic from hid or so ...
[07:09] <zyga_laptop> ogra: it could be great for performance analisys of gettext+.desktop
[07:09] <Keybuk> your ldm looks somewhat slower than gdm
[07:09] <mdke> does everyone else have invalid keysignatures when updating on breezy?
[07:09] <ogra> since this thin client has no gameprt 
[07:09] <ogra> Keybuk, its gnome-canvas in pygtk ...
[07:09] <Keybuk> zyga_laptop: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/packages/bootchart_0.8-0ubuntu2_all.deb
[07:09] <ogra> sure its slower
[07:11] <zyga_laptop> Keybuk: do you make that package?
[07:11] <zyga_laptop> ;-)
[07:11] <Keybuk> zyga_laptop: yeah
[07:11] <zyga_laptop> Konfigurowanie bootchart (0.8-0ubuntu2) ...
[07:11] <zyga_laptop> /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-9-k7 was been altered.  Cannot update.
[07:11] <Keybuk> ogra: interesting, the first 20s of your boot is basically initramfs
[07:11] <zyga_laptop> was been
[07:11] <Keybuk> the next 20s is dexconf
[07:11] <Keybuk> then 25s of hotplug
[07:11] <Keybuk> then the rest is ldm
[07:12] <Keybuk> zyga_laptop: did you just install a new kernel or something?  that means it wasn't able to update your initramfs
[07:12] <zyga_laptop> Keybuk: I was talking about the grammar bug
[07:12] <Keybuk> isn't mine
[07:12] <zyga_laptop> s/was/has/
[07:12] <zyga_laptop> ah ;-)
[07:12] <zyga_laptop> actually... no
[07:12] <zyga_laptop> I didn't upgrade the kernel 
[07:13] <ogra> Keybuk, i'd like to get rid of the initial delay of initramfs and of the hotplug delay, then i'd be fine 
[07:13] <Keybuk> ogra: no idea what the initial delay is
[07:13] <ogra> tftp probably
[07:13] <Keybuk> it looks almost entirely modprobe
[07:13] <Keybuk> which means you're stuck with it unless you go for a per-machine monolithic kernel
[07:13] <ogra> i mean everything is working over the net ...
[07:14] <ogra> at least at this point
[07:14] <Keybuk> at that point, the initramfs should have been downloaded and be in memory
[07:14] <ogra> i'm not aiming for 30 sec boots anymore, thats for sure, but 45 should be reachable 
[07:14] <Keybuk> interesting that you've removed readahead from the boot sequence
[07:15] <Keybuk> an S01readahead might help a LOT
[07:15] <HiddenWolf> ogra, aim for instant boot, and see how far you can get. ;)
[07:15] <Keybuk> as it can haul in everything over the network into memory while the machine's fucking about dealing with hardware
[07:15] <janimo> mdke, ar e you using the us. mirror by any chance?
[07:15] <ogra> Keybuk, readahead in 32MB systems will work ??
[07:15] <Keybuk> ogra: sure
[07:16] <Keybuk> you've got to load that stuff into memory ANYWAY
[07:16] <mdke> janimo, no, archive.u.c
[07:16] <janimo> hmm
[07:16] <Keybuk> you may as well do it while the machine's doing other things, so you eliminate the network from the speed problems
[07:16] <janimo> I only had bad sigs with the us. mirror
[07:16] <zyga_laptop> jbailey: typo ping :)
[07:16] <ogra> Keybuk, will play with it ...
[07:17] <Keybuk> will also be interesting to see how much the removal of hotplug will help you
[07:17] <ogra> it breaks X currently ....
[07:17] <janimo> Keybuk, didn;t the spec said something about RA not helping with systems < 128M ?
[07:18] <ogra> i already tried the evil way :)
[07:18] <Keybuk> janimo: which spec/
[07:18] <janimo> I don;t recall but oneo f the UBZ ones
[07:18] <Keybuk> readahead seeds the page cache with files that are going to be read anyway
[07:18] <janimo> speeding up boot or something
[07:18] <janimo> does it read them into memory?
[07:18] <Keybuk> yes
[07:18] <Keybuk> but they've got to be read into memory anyway
[07:19] <janimo> but before it could use some it may have to swap them out again
[07:19] <janimo> if the memory fills faster than the apps need that info no?
[07:19] <Keybuk> *shrug* swapping to a local swap partition is still going to be more efficient than having to haul them over ethernet
[07:19] <janimo> oh, for ltsp
[07:20] <janimo> was there something about swap over nbd? for diskless stations?
[07:22] <Keybuk> though I suspect if your boot sequence needs more memory than the machine has, you have problems
[07:22] <Keybuk> if you need to load 64MB of apps to boot a machine with 32MB of memory ... you're screwed speedwise
[07:26] <janimo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDPerformance?highlight=%28readahead%29
[07:26] <janimo> Keybuk, that's where I saw about readahead
[07:26] <janimo> and small memory
[07:26] <ogra> Keybuk, i'll add a lowmem option that switches off nearly everything and just boots up x... that should work with 32M
[07:26] <jdub> holy crap
[07:26] <jdub> really need a new poll
[07:27] <Keybuk> the theory of readahead is that it reads into the page cache files you need later in the boot sequence
[07:27] <Keybuk> if the sum total of all the files you need is greater than the amount of memory you can spare for page cache, it won't be a win
[07:27] <jdub> our readahead data files haven't been updated since warty though
[07:27] <jdub> which ends up sucking
[07:28] <Keybuk> except if the sum total of files you need is greater than the amount of memory, you're going to hit swap during boot!
[07:28] <Keybuk> let alone when the user is trying to use it
[07:28] <janimo> I know, I was just pointing out that what I said earlier is not my idea, read it somewhere :)
[07:28] <Keybuk> so it's probably time to go back and figure out why you need more memory to boot the machine than you have
[07:28] <Keybuk> and cut out memory-usage so you don't
[07:28] <janimo> soem of the memory may be used then discarded, it may not add up
[07:28] <Keybuk> jdub: yeah, see the ski-slope on http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/bootcharts/20051109-2.png
[07:29] <janimo> whereas with readahead that is what's happening
[07:29] <ogra> Keybuk, swap is no option at boottime ...
[07:29] <Keybuk> janimo: some maybe, but if you're using lots of memory just to boot the machine that you don't need while running it; again you have problems to solve
[07:29] <ogra> i use nbd, its needs to be set up first :)
[07:29] <jdub> 404 man
[07:29] <jdub> dapper- :)
[07:29] <Keybuk> uh http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/bootcharts/dapper-20051109-2.png
[07:31] <tseng> jdub: dont worry
[07:31] <tseng> jdub: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=500&slide=22 < here is what dapper looks like
[07:32] <ogra> Keybuk, looking at the cpu/disk diagrams.... 
[07:32] <tseng> should hold you over for a bit
[07:32] <ogra> Keybuk, .... you know that bootchart was not intended as painting tool ?
[07:32] <Keybuk> ogra: hmm?
[07:33] <ogra> your bootchart loks like you tried painting rohrschach pictures with it :)
[07:33] <Keybuk> heh
[07:33] <Keybuk> all breezy+dapper boots have that
[07:33] <ogra> mine doesnt
[07:33] <Keybuk> yours doesn't have readahead in it :p
[07:33] <ogra> (not the ltsp one)
[07:33] <Keybuk> really, what's your normal one look like?
[07:34] <jdub> ah, that is what ubuntu looks like
[07:34] <jdub> oh, i can see what they mean about the brown
[07:35] <ogra> Keybuk, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/dapper-20051111-1base.png
[07:36] <ogra> i got it down to 1:04 by removing all the servers and down to 0:54 by removin readahead !
[07:37] <Keybuk> damn, you have the modprobe from hell in there
[07:38] <Keybuk> you're almost entirely in I/O-wait throughout your boot
[07:38] <ogra> yup
[07:38] <ogra> its not everytime there
[07:38] <Keybuk> I/O-wait is bad
[07:38] <Keybuk> it means your machine is constantly waiting for the drive to spin
[07:39] <ogra> yes, but it doesnt occur every boot and i have no idea why 
[07:39] <Keybuk> you want solid blue in the top graph, and solid-pink in the bottom one
[07:39] <Keybuk> disk or IDE controller is too slow for your machine?
[07:39] <ogra> its a 4200 rpm laptop drive :)
[07:39] <Keybuk> you're only peaking at 20MB/s
[07:39] <Keybuk> whoah, dude, that's WAAYYY underpowered for an AMD64
[07:39] <ogra> yup
[07:39] <Keybuk> no wonder it takes frickin' ages to boot
[07:40] <ogra> a fresh hoary booted in 35-45 sec
[07:40] <tseng> should i run it on a 10k rpm raid0 ?
[07:40] <ogra> (*felt*)
[07:40] <tseng> :P
[07:40] <Keybuk> I'd suggest building some new readahead lists for the the whole sequence, and putting readahead right at the start
[07:40] <Simira> ahrg! I'm drowning in "cheap software"-spam!
[07:41] <Keybuk> that way your machine won't spend all of it's time going "ARE WE THERE YET?" to your disk
[07:41] <ogra> then readahead will wait for the disk to spin up... where is the diff ?
[07:41] <tseng> ogra: it will read it all at once
[07:41] <Keybuk> readahead will do everything at once for the whole sequence
[07:41] <ogra> oh, k
[07:41] <tseng> instead of spinning up and down like crazy
[07:41] <Keybuk> so you spend 10s reading everything you need into memory
[07:41] <Keybuk> then the entire boot happens from memory
[07:41] <Keybuk> rather than every, single, operation, needing, to, wait, for, the, disk
[07:42] <ogra> ah k
[07:42] <jdub> anyone seen an X series tablet in the flesh?
[07:43] <thierry_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ seems down...
[07:43] <tseng> thierry_: not really.
[07:43] <thierry_> tseng : mmm yeah it works now... strange
[07:44] <Znarl> It's slow, thanks to slashdot.
[07:44] <HiddenWolf> wiki got slashdotted?
[07:45] <Znarl> Yes
[07:45] <HiddenWolf> LOL
[07:45] <HiddenWolf> only over the nice dapper drake "nothing has changed yet" daily's ? :)
[07:45] <HiddenWolf> People should get a life. ;)
[07:47] <Znarl> Broke one of our cdimage machines too.  *grumbles*
[07:48] <HiddenWolf> Znarl, wiki has been slow a lot the last few weeks. Is anything going on, or is it outgrowing itself?
[07:49] <Znarl> HiddenWolf : I've not heard this complaint before... I'll take a look.
[07:50] <HiddenWolf> Znarl, it's not terrible or anything, but perhaps worth a look.
[07:50] <seb128> Keybuk: when installing bootchart I get "/boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-9-k7 was been altered.  Cannot update.", is that known?
[07:51] <Keybuk> seb128: yeah, some people seem to get that, no idea what it means
[07:52] <seb128> $ update-initramfs -v -u
[07:52] <seb128> /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-9-k7 was been altered.  Cannot update.
[07:52] <Keybuk> I think it means that the initramfs was altered since update-initramfs was last run
[07:52] <seb128> grumpf
[07:52] <Keybuk> try just mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-9-k7
[07:52] <Keybuk> or ...
[07:52] <Keybuk> update-initramfs -t -u
[07:53] <seb128> k, I used -t
[07:53] <Keybuk> one of those will do it
[07:53] <seb128> time to reboot
[08:24] <janimo> why do debian update binary packages instead of source as ubuntu?
[08:24] <janimo> s/update/upload/
[08:36] <siretart> janimo: because thats the first barrier which hinders ppl uploading stuff which doesn't build at all
[08:37] <janimo> hmm a good reason
[08:37] <Burglaptop> janimo, I believe it is also because for some of the obscure archs, the only person who has it is the uploader
[08:38] <Burglaptop> ergo they cannot upload source and get it built in a debian run buildd
[08:38] <janimo> ah
[08:38] <siretart> Burglaptop: then that arch would only have those package that developers uploads :P
[08:39] <siretart> no, there are autobuilders for every debian release architecture
[08:41] <Burglaptop> ok
[08:41] <Burglaptop> even for things like m68k?
[08:42] <siretart> for m68k, there is an army of autobuilders in order to keep up with unstable
[09:00] <luis_> is anyone else seeing the latest gksudo hang regularly? (in dapper)
[09:01] <Burglaptop> luis_, there is a report int he ubuntuforums about that
[09:05] <Burglaptop> hmm http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=31128
[09:08] <luis_> the tango guys have some similar-looking mockups as well
[09:10] <ogra> i wonder why they used kde to make gnome mockups :p
[09:12] <Riddell> ogra: they have?
[09:15] <luis_> that panel setup, at least, screams CDE :)
[09:16] <lsuactiafner> rpc aint used on 5.10 but older system on the network needs it, so 5.10 aint backwards compatible with older system that require rpc for nfs
[09:17] <lsuactiafner> and gcc doesnt cross compile 32bit code, so its also borked.
[10:42] <neuralis> Treenaks, ping
[10:46] <jdong> elmo: ping
[10:47] <jdong> yep, guess he's busy :)
[11:23] <kmr> is there a resource where maintainers discuss which upstream versions dapper will contain? Specifically, I'm concerned about which version of mysql dapper will contain.
[11:25] <mdke> kmr, mailing list is a decent start
[11:26] <kmr> mdke: ubuntu-devel, right?
[11:26] <neuralis> kmr, it's not decided yet.
[11:26] <mdke> kmr, yeah
[11:27] <kmr> I figured that it is not decided, I'm just wondering if there was a typically spot. ubuntu-devel seems like an area of last resort
[11:27] <neuralis> kmr, i meant mysql. adam will be making the 4.1 vs 5.0 decision sometime before christmas, pending heavy stress testing and community feedback.
[11:28] <kmr> i appreciate for the specific information on mysql. in terms of community feedback (of which I have none to contribute at the moment), where do you imagine that will take place
[11:29] <kmr> ubuntu doesn't use bts, right? So, there wouldn't be some sort of "wishlist" bug like "please consider version x.y.z for dapper" for discussions to take place
[11:30] <mdke> kmr, yes, you can try that
[11:30] <mdke> kmr, see it at http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[11:31] <neuralis> kmr, end user version-wishes are less important in this case; we're after hardcore testing on complicated mysql installations. if those come back greenflagging 5.0, 5.0 it is. otherwise we'll fall back to 4.1.
[11:31] <kmr> mdke: thanks. I heard ubuntu used bugzilla, but never saw the web site
[11:31] <mdke> we are switching bts soon, but that is the place for now
[11:31] <kmr> mdke: very good
[11:32] <kmr> neuralis: that sounds very appropriate
[11:33] <kmr> actually, I'm quite interested in the results of the hardcore testing. I'm deploying a server cluster for mysql, and I have the same question in my mind -- use 4.1 or 5.0.
[11:33] <kmr> 5.0 does have some carrots for utf-8 encoding innodb tables which the application heavily uses
[11:34] <kmr> but, 4.1 has been working great for use thus far on light development duty
[11:34] <kmr> mdke: what will be the new bts system?
[11:34] <neuralis> kmr: http://launchpad.net/malone
[11:35] <kmr> thanks, I'm looking at malone now. I need to provide a bts for the new application
[11:36] <neuralis> malone is not open source (yet), so you can't deploy it somewhere else, if that's what you mean.
[11:37] <kmr> i see. also, it's strength seems to be tracking remote bts. probably bugzilla will be a better choice for a standalone project
[11:38] <kmr> oh, I have another ubuntu-devel question...
[11:39] <kmr> back when I was the debian maintainer of sbcl, I created a binary sbcl package for amd64 (to bootstrap the generation of future amd64 sbcl packages). I noticed that package is not in ubuntu. 
[11:40] <kmr> how would I go about asking the project to take the _amd64.deb debian sbcl binary and putting it in ubuntu?
[11:41] <neuralis> kmr: bugzilla is the 800lb. gorilla of bts packages. for smaller projects, look at Trac (integrates with vcs, provides wiki) and Eventum.
[11:42] <kmr> appreciate the tip. yes, I've played with a toy installation of bugzilla. it does seem like overkill for a project with a handful of developers. I'll look at Trac - thanks!
[11:43] <spstarr_home> trac == good
[11:43] <kmr> vote noted, thanks!
[11:44] <mdke> kmr, you could use malone if you like.
[11:45] <kmr> mdke: thanks for the info. Likely, I'll prefer to run a local copy of the bts on the new cluster for the team
[11:45] <kmr> bbiab
[11:45] <mdke> fair enough
[11:50] <spstarr_home> mdke: when is malone source going to be available?
[11:50] <spstarr_home> I'd like to use that for other stuff
[11:50] <mdke> i don't know. but I hope it will not be available in the near future
[11:51] <spstarr_home> 'not'? :-(
[11:51] <mdke> the whole point is to have everything in the same place
[11:51] <spstarr_home> I'd like that to become the defactor big system replacing bugzillas everywhere
[11:51] <mdke> but I'm not involved in development, so I'm not the best guide for you
[11:51] <spstarr_home> defacto
[11:51] <mdke> spstarr_home, me too
[11:52] <spstarr_home> s/big/bug
[11:52] <spstarr_home> :)
[11:53] <kmr> mdke: i see your point. however, using open-source software everywhere, I want our bts data be be processed back a package where we have the ability to examine and modify the source
[11:53] <kmr> s/back/by/
[11:54] <mdke> kmr, fair enough
[11:54] <kmr> mdke: as is your goal as well
[11:54] <mdke> yeap
[11:55] <jbailey> zyga_laptop: 'sp?
[11:55] <zyga_laptop> jbailey: typo in the profiling package
[11:55] <zyga_laptop> 'was been'
[11:55] <zyga_laptop> jbailey: just grep for it
[11:56] <jbailey> profiling package?
[11:56] <jbailey> Like gprof?
[11:56] <zyga_laptop> jbailey: nono
[11:56] <zyga_laptop> jbailey: bootchart
[11:56] <zyga_laptop> jbailey: anyway, someone said it was in your code
[11:56] <zyga_laptop> jbailey: bootchart was unable to regenerate initramfs
[11:57] <zyga_laptop> and displayed 'was been'
[11:58] <jbailey> bootchart is thoroughly not my code.
[11:58] <jbailey> =)
[11:59] <zyga_laptop> jbailey: I know :)
[11:59] <zyga_laptop> zyga_laptop /boot/initrd.img-2.6.12-9-k7 was been altered.  Cannot update.
[11:59] <zyga_laptop> * Keybuk points at jbailey ... initramfs is his