=== mdke_ [n=matt@81-178-249-56.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kjcole [n=kjcole@pchb1f.gallaudet.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kjcole [n=kjcole@pchb1f.gallaudet.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kyral [n=Linux@hamlin-165-3914.hamlin.clarkson.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kyral falls [01:02] Can someone help me explain why UbuntuGuide isn't good? [01:02] Kyral: what, the unoffical one? [01:02] Yah [01:03] A flamewar erupted in the Forums channel when I ask people to stop recommending the Guide [01:03] I think that it isn't being maintained and it has what is considered to be bad advice [01:03] I once recommended it on #ubuntu and got torn to bits ;-) [01:04] I'm getting targetted [01:05] by who? [01:05] for recommending it? [01:05] yes its crap [01:05] for speaking out against it [01:05] its not up to date for breezy either [01:06] besides that, it breaks a lot of peoples pcs as it sometimes gives bad advice [01:06] I always found it easy to navigate but I never used it much [01:06] Then can I get backup? [01:06] #ubuntuforums [01:06] and its not open, one guy controls it and he can do whatever he wants, whereas the official guide is open for all to contribute [01:07] it still states that it's a 5.04 guide [01:07] rob1, that is not quite accurate [01:07] the guide is being maintained I believe, by a group of people [01:08] mdke, still, its closed [01:08] i would recommend against speaking out against it [01:08] I can't contribute in an easy way if I wanted to [01:08] rob1, that doesn't matter [01:08] what matters is that speaking out against it will foster differences between the two communities [01:08] I'm not, I'm just pointing out why our guide is better === judax [n=judax@ppp-70-251-190-144.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:09] I stopped pointing people towards the guide some time ago [01:10] help.ubuntu.com is much better [01:10] someone asked is all === mdke is installing linux on his ipod [01:15] oh? [01:15] wow, that is getting nasty in #ubuntuforums [01:15] what is getting nasty? [01:15] I brought up the Wiki/UbuntuGuide issue [01:15] it sounds like a bunch of 12 year olds in there [01:16] hmm, well maybe I haven't seen enough irc fights [01:16] seemed pretty heated to me [01:16] what is the problem? [01:17] I guess Kyral suggested that they not recommend the Unoffical Ubuntu Guide [01:17] the wiki seems to have been dragged into the debate [01:17] and I've spent several hours recently trying to calm that down [01:17] yeah your bound to stir up stuff with that comment [01:18] well on #ubuntu they don't recomend it I don't think [01:19] no [01:19] they don't === manicka [n=grant@203-217-90-215.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === manicka [n=grant@203-217-90-215.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:44] rob1, applied, thanks [02:45] rob1, ah crap, did you change the css location? [02:47] no [02:47] ? [02:47] [02:47] no idea wtf that came from [02:48] oh, that might of happen when I downloaded a copy, blame firefox [02:48] oh probably [02:48] i'll fix now [02:49] thanks [02:49] do you know of a good linux distro for little kids? [02:49] yeah [02:49] ubuntu [02:49] heh [02:49] I'm talking a three year old [02:49] ok css working [02:49] three year olds are too young for computers [02:50] (IMO) [02:50] nah [02:50] he loves playing quake and stuff [02:50] I just got him his own puter' [02:51] brb [02:51] damn [02:51] failure to get linux on ipod === rob1 [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:55] a 3 year old playing Quake? gah... [02:56] scary shit === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:26] heh [03:26] hi Burgundavia [03:29] hello === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@cpe-69-205-47-165.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [03:30] ubuntu has icewm doesn't it? [03:30] sure [03:30] so why does doc.ubuntu.com exist? Is it anything more than the DocumentationTeam wiki? [03:30] LaserJock, yes [03:30] LaserJock, it is not a wiki at all [03:30] it is just a website [03:31] our homepage [03:31] it hosts our work in progress documentation [03:31] ah, because that would be hard to do on the wiki, but is easy in html? [03:32] ? [03:32] eh? [03:32] work in progress [03:32] theres a set of scripts that make html versions of our xml docs [03:32] LaserJock, we work in docbook xml. the previews are generated into html [03:32] and put them there [03:32] salut Madpilot [03:32] hi corey [03:33] ok, I am just trying to figure out the difference, I think I see it now [03:33] gah [03:33] i know I'm up late if I get my cron mail [03:33] heh [03:33] LaserJock, basically doc.ubuntu.com is our website, and help.ubuntu.com is where documentation is hosted. That is the current situation anyhow [03:33] I'm doing a server install on an old box, then install icewm [03:34] sounds good [03:34] hopefully it should go smoothly [03:35] i did a server plus xubuntu-desktop on here the other day [03:35] i prefer gnome though [03:35] openbox is also quite nice [03:36] does it have a decent gui? [03:37] what do you mean by gui? [03:37] Burgundavia: how did that laptop install go? [03:37] well a three year old will be using it, so he needs to click on stuff [03:38] rob1: you're not going to make him learn the command line first? [03:38] :P [03:38] heh [03:38] haha [03:38] rob1: you could do it but it might be some work [03:38] he needs to learn to spell first :) [03:38] he needs his quake hit [03:38] yes [03:38] so get the gui up fast [03:38] he knows the asdw keys [03:38] lol [03:39] that's just so wrong [03:39] Madpilot, after I fought with windows for a while, I decided to come back with a livecd and use that. I am going tomorrow [03:39] rob1: so he could function just fine on some IRC channels, I guess [03:39] openbox is pretty minimal, last time I used it was with gentoo so I don't know about how it might work in Ubuntu [03:39] heh, #ubuntuforums for one [03:39] Burgundavia: I thought you were going with Vector Linux on that laptop? [03:39] (sorry mdke) === mdke sighs in rob's direction [03:40] Madpilot, I was, but there was some data that needs to be pulled off first [03:40] vector is too bright, reminds me of xp [03:40] and I hate slackware packaging.. [03:40] heh [03:41] well MenusRevised is getting lots of comments [03:42] good stuff [03:43] Kinnison Senior was quite right about removing xsane, that blows [03:43] Burgundavia: do you mean MenusRevisited ? [03:45] LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited/Comments [03:45] hmm I dont know about hiding totem [03:45] hiding totem? geez [03:45] who are these fascists [03:45] ms don't hide mediaplayer [03:45] Madpilot: ok thanks, I wasn't sure [03:46] blimey [03:47] i don't like that spec much actually, now I read it [03:47] purging system tools >_< === manicka is now known as manicka-idle [03:47] applications seem to be getting put into the administration menu which are not administrative [03:48] yep [03:48] TobiasWolf has a good point: "For new inexperienced users functional completeness of the system is mirrored in the application menus." [03:49] whist the menus could do with a little bit of cleaning up, I don't think we need to go as nuts as that [03:49] agreed [03:49] in fact it will be harmful [03:50] by hide it means that we can open the menu editor and get them back, right ? [03:50] LaserJock, yeah but how stupid is that [03:50] ? [03:50] rob1: well, I can kinda see having a clean default [03:50] just kill the unused things like bittorrent etc [03:51] Linux is all about choice, by killing half of the menu we are removing a lot of that choice [03:51] moving some of this stuff off the menus basically means having to launch it thru Nautilus - like torrents, if you want to re-launch a .torrent you've already got on your system... [03:52] hmm openbox+rox looks nice [03:52] rob1: I agree, I think you can reorginize or make the menus clearer without removing half the apps [03:53] Madpilot, you need both options in my opinion, I open lots of programs from the menus, and frequently from nautilus too [03:53] hmm looks like my horay cd crapped out during install [03:53] mdke: yeah, that's what I was getting at [03:53] rob1: on gentoo I used openbox + gnome-panel a lot but that would probably be overkill for you. [03:53] Madpilot, looks like lots of people think that way too [03:54] yeah the PC is an amd 500mhz with 130mb ram [03:54] I do think that the Accessories/System Tools/Preferences/Administration stuff needs to be cleaned up - [03:54] hmm, I hardly every you nautilus. I might have to look at it more [03:54] s/you/use [03:54] LaserJock: you don't use the file manager? [03:54] Madpilot: no, CLI [03:54] -> bed [03:54] Madpilot, use the cli most of the time too [03:54] Madpilot: I haven't gotten the hang of a filemanager [03:54] night mdke [03:55] its just easier [03:55] good night mdke [03:55] The only time I use nautilus is when I need to transfer somthing to my usb stick. [03:55] the only time I use the CLI for file management is when I have to use sudo - typing "sudo mv " is easier than relaunching Naut w/ visudo nautilus [03:56] nah, copying stuff for instance is much eaiser using cli [03:56] hmm, amazing how diverse users are. That is why taking out a lot the menu might be a bad idea [03:56] try using ratpoison for a while, the mouse is useless :) [03:56] i use the file manager for copying files over ssh [03:57] i find it a lot easier [03:57] rob1: I'd last about two hours w/o a mouse, I think :) [03:57] I still use cli ssh [03:57] rob1: me too [03:57] rob1, you gotta try nautilus, it is pretty good [03:57] I ssh to my Ubuntu box from Windows a lot so everything is CLI [03:58] there are gui windows scp clients [03:58] mdke, I did once and gave up in frustration [03:58] if gnome had something like kioslaves I'd probably use gui tools more [03:59] mdke: yeah, but it is faster for me to CLI cause I am doing other stuff at the same time [04:00] bbl === bhuvan [n=ubuntu@59.92.32.31] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka-idle is now known as manicka === rob1 [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=grant@203-217-90-215.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=grant@203-217-90-215.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=grant@203-217-90-215.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.150.130] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka is now known as manicka-idle === bhuvan [n=ubuntu@59.92.97.186] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:30] oooh a beta of the debian installer is out === pawan [n=pawan@202.79.37.177] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:20] hi [11:21] how do i extract file names for translated po files so that mo files [11:47] blah mdke is sleeping.. [11:47] don't you hate when you have what seems like a good idea and no one around to tell it to :P [11:55] why should i ... [12:13] just got up [12:14] rob1, that is a rocking idea [12:14] pawan, i don't understand your question. also, it seems a bit off-topic for #ubuntu-doc === pawan [n=pawan@202.79.37.177] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@pool-70-110-67-103.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:36] hello [04:39] jsgotangco, hai! [04:39] jsgotangco, i've been looking for you [04:40] hi everyone. [04:40] jsgotangco, have you read your email? [04:40] Belutz: yeah [04:40] Belutz: RMS wow [04:40] yup RMS [04:41] thank God it's not RPM :p [04:41] how many times did RMS already go there? [04:41] the guy just loves indonesia i notice [04:41] three times i guess [04:41] Belutz: dec. 1-2 i will be in seoul [04:42] ic :-( [04:42] if i can arrage it i can fly the next day === jsgotangco wonders how long is the flight from seoul to jakarta [04:42] ok, i already send an email to the event commitee, asking if they could add a slot to the event for ubuntu presentation [04:43] if they could provide it, i'll let you know asap [04:43] if you can confirm it, i will tell jane about it as well [04:43] ok [04:43] since i'm already confirmed in seoul, it'll be hairy [04:43] haha [04:43] *hooraayy i'm going to meet jsgotangco ^_^ * === jsgotangco looks at calendar [04:44] saturday eh? [04:44] friday [04:44] eh? [04:44] 3 is a saturday [04:44] oops [04:44] yes saturday [04:44] what time would it be? [04:44] i was looking at nov 2006 :-( [04:45] 8.30 - 16.30 indonesian time (GMT +7) [04:45] yikes [04:46] yikes? :p [04:46] well i couild probably leave seoul on the night of the 2nd [04:46] if they could provide a slot, i will ask them to be at almost the end of the seminar [04:46] Belutz: i can't promise though...i still have to talk to the travel agent... [04:46] hey jerome [04:47] hey mdke [04:47] jsgotangco, yes i know, and i can't promise that they could provide a slot also [04:47] jdub's bbt is tiring, but going to speak in seoul then to jakarta a day after the other can be killer [04:48] Belutz: although the site you mentioned had ubuntu [04:48] jsgotangco, yup [04:48] mdke: how's saturday? [04:49] one of the seminar topic is demonstration of linux distro based on debian [04:49] but i think they will demonstrate knoppix [04:49] jsgotangco, saturday is ok. I've been trying (and failing) to get ipodlinux on my ipod [04:49] because knoppix is quiet popular in here [04:50] Belutz: how is the state of l10n there? [04:50] l10n for ubuntu? [04:50] debian in general [04:50] for gnome it's already 93% [04:50] wow [04:50] i don't know about debian :( [04:51] sometimes its better to do core stuff for l10n on debian upstream because it automatically goes to every derivative [04:51] even ubuntu [04:51] i see [04:52] Belutz: let's just wait and see what pans out, if you can confirm, we'll worry then :) [04:52] jsgotangco, ok :-) === jsgotangco has SW Insight Conference 2005 to worry about first :) [04:53] :-) [04:53] Belutz: i checked the website, i did understand my words though, it seems only RMS is keynote? [04:54] the other is hmm what do you called it in english... hmm the head of magazine? [04:54] editor in chief? === jsgotangco checks email again [04:56] yup editor in chief of Info Linux magazine [04:56] and also a lecturer from Indonesia University [04:56] Belutz: i could have asked mako, but remember he also has conflicts and can't go to seoul too... [04:56] we were supposed to go together in seoul... [04:56] i see [04:57] originally it should have been jdub going to seoul but he's already booked in OSDC [04:57] asia needs a lot of loving [04:58] true :-) [05:00] who is Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim [05:00] he is a lecturer from Indonesia Univertisity [05:01] i think RMS is not coming, it will be just a teleconference [05:01] oohhhh [05:02] hmm === jsgotangco found a diamond in the rough in Belutz 's blog [05:02] what diamond? [05:03] can i sell it? lol :-) [05:03] haha [05:03] Belutz: who's Tina [05:03] hehe [05:03] ah [05:03] Tina, i knew her from blogwalking === jsgotangco obviously is bored [05:03] she's an Indonesian who lives in germany for now [05:03] hmm she's in germany [05:04] with her family [05:04] :) [05:04] in ulm [05:05] she's pretty [05:05] she is :-) [05:06] we get a lot of tv ads here mostly shampoo ads from indonesia, but translated to english [05:06] its either from indonesia or thailand [05:06] can a non english blog goes into planet.u.c? :p [05:06] no [05:06] but you can post english posts [05:06] why not? [05:06] and tag them [05:07] there are some shampoo ads in here is also translated in Indonesia, from thailand maybe [05:07] ok so the ladies in thailand are prettier lol [05:08] not really *grin* [05:09] Belutz: do you know the organizers of the event? [05:09] jsgotangco, no i'm not :-( [05:09] i doubt it if you can convince them for a slot [05:10] well, it's worth to try [05:10] sure [05:10] :-) [05:11] ok so "Tina" mentioned Ubuntu that's a good sign [05:11] jsgotangco: how far is thailand from where you are? (sorry, my geography sux) [05:12] highvoltage: probably around 4 hours by plance [05:12] s/plance/plane [05:12] hong kong is just 2 hours by plane [05:12] jsgotangco, i think her husband is using SUSE in her house, and she and her husband also mentioned that they download ubuntu [05:12] ok, that's still quite far. [05:13] janew said the next ubz/ubz-like meeting might be in thailand. [05:13] i'm definately saving up for that one. [05:13] highvoltage: WHOAAAAAA [05:13] in thailand? [05:13] hmmm [05:14] can a non-developer come? :p === jsgotangco should not miss the 6.10 planning [05:14] Belutz: i think so. [05:14] Belutz: sure [05:14] Belutz: but you're a member, so you must be doing something already! [05:14] yeah [05:14] hmmm [05:14] shout to the world you're a contributor [05:15] just translations is not enough then... [05:15] Belutz: that's what you think [05:15] anyone can go to the developer conference afaik [05:15] yes [05:16] i hope i had some money to go there by then [05:16] the devel conference isn't mostly about hacking stuff [05:16] half of the time, community stuff are planned as well [05:16] i see [05:17] hmm my friend already received his 5.10 cd's from shipit [05:17] but anyone is welcome to contribute to a spec/BoF [05:17] highvoltage: marlize handles cd shipments? [05:17] mdke: do you think you'll be coming too if it's in thailand? [05:17] highvoltage, no, very unlikely === jsgotangco can definitely go to thailand [05:17] i won't get the time off work [05:18] jsgotangco: i know she handles it in .za, but i think she's taken on more responsibility recently, not sure. [05:18] mdke: what kind of work are you doing now? lawyer work? [05:18] yeah [05:18] did you handle murder cases already? [05:18] heh [05:18] i don't do that sort of law [05:18] its its mostly corproate law, i'm not buying [05:19] heh [05:19] does uk have tort law too? [05:19] i'm with a group that does commercial law [05:19] yes :) [05:19] that's very strange. mdke is a lawyer, and yet i don't hate him. [05:19] tort law is english in origin [05:19] highvoltage, :)( [05:19] whoops [05:19] mdke: so tort law is worse there? [05:19] :) [05:19] jsgotangco, worse? [05:19] i mean compared to tort cases in the us [05:20] it's difficult to describe a whole category of law as better or worse [05:20] the system is fairly good [05:20] like say you sue McD for giving you high levels of cholesterol [05:20] oh i see [05:20] there is less of a litigation culture in the UK than in the US, thank god [05:20] or that you got allergies after eating frog pie [05:20] ahhh [05:20] people still sue each other too much, but it's not as bad [05:21] you should handle immigration cases, it'll make you rich for sure [05:21] hehe [05:22] don't worry, commercial law is quite lucrative [05:22] is there something like antitrust law in the uk? [05:22] yes [05:22] we call it "competition law" [05:22] ahhh [05:22] it's mainly european based === jsgotangco is interested in how EU countries get to make their own laws at the same time have a big EU law [05:23] yeah that is quite an interesting subject [05:23] its just like the [05:24] the EU only legislates in certain specific areas [05:24] hey i finally got to use in a useful way [05:24] hehe [05:24] anway's what's for? [05:25] i don't see that symbol in irssi [05:25] interesting [05:25] i dunno if we have the same keymap but its with ` and | beside the space bar [05:26] | can only be used with alt gr [05:26] guess not ;) [05:26] ? [05:26] yes [05:26] no idea [05:26] what's that [05:26] jsgotangco, http://www.debian.org/international/l10n/po/id [05:26] the weird looking line [05:27] highvoltage, so you've had some bad experiences with lawyers eh? [05:27] mdke: how come uk keyboards have it? heh [05:27] i dunno what it is [05:27] Belutz: that's a lot of green stuff which is good... [05:28] jsgotangco, yes i think so, Mohammad DAMT is really good at it [05:28] Belutz: the only major component we got to translate at the moment to Tagalog is Debian-Installer [05:28] Belutz: id's efforts are better compraed to tl [05:29] really? [05:29] yes [05:30] Belutz: its because majority of our population grew up learning english in schools so there's very little need for them to use a localized system [05:30] so in here [05:30]