[01:02] <Kyral> Can someone help me explain why UbuntuGuide isn't good?
[01:02] <LaserJock> Kyral: what, the unoffical one?
[01:02] <Kyral> Yah
[01:03] <Kyral> A flamewar erupted in the Forums channel when I ask people to stop recommending the Guide
[01:03] <LaserJock> I think that it isn't being maintained and it has what is considered to be bad advice
[01:03] <LaserJock> I once recommended it on #ubuntu and got torn to bits ;-)
[01:04] <Kyral> I'm getting targetted
[01:05] <manicka> by who?
[01:05] <LaserJock> for recommending it?
[01:05] <rob1> yes its crap
[01:05] <Kyral> for speaking out against it
[01:05] <rob1> its not up to date for breezy either
[01:06] <rob1> besides that, it breaks a lot of peoples pcs as it sometimes gives bad advice
[01:06] <LaserJock> I always found it easy to navigate but I never used it much
[01:06] <Kyral> Then can I get backup?
[01:06] <Kyral> #ubuntuforums
[01:06] <rob1> and its not open, one guy controls it and he can do whatever he wants, whereas the official guide is open for all to contribute
[01:07] <manicka> it still states that it's a 5.04 guide
[01:07] <mdke> rob1, that is not quite accurate
[01:07] <mdke> the guide is being maintained I believe, by a group of people
[01:08] <rob1> mdke, still, its closed
[01:08] <mdke> i would recommend against speaking out against it
[01:08] <rob1> I can't contribute in an easy way if I wanted to
[01:08] <mdke> rob1, that doesn't matter
[01:08] <mdke> what matters is that speaking out against it will foster differences between the two communities
[01:08] <rob1> I'm not, I'm just pointing out why our guide is better
[01:09] <manicka> I stopped pointing people towards the guide some time ago
[01:10] <manicka> help.ubuntu.com is much better
[01:10] <rob1> someone asked is all
[01:15] <rob1> oh?
[01:15] <LaserJock> wow, that is getting nasty in #ubuntuforums
[01:15] <mdke> what is getting nasty?
[01:15] <Kyral> I brought up the Wiki/UbuntuGuide issue
[01:15] <rob1> it sounds like a bunch of 12 year olds in there
[01:16] <LaserJock> hmm, well maybe I haven't seen enough irc fights 
[01:16] <LaserJock> seemed pretty heated to me
[01:16] <mdke> what is the problem?
[01:17] <LaserJock> I guess Kyral suggested that they not recommend the Unoffical Ubuntu Guide
[01:17] <mdke> the wiki seems to have been dragged into the debate
[01:17] <mdke> and I've spent several hours recently trying to calm that down
[01:17] <rob1> yeah your bound to stir up stuff with that comment
[01:18] <LaserJock> well on #ubuntu they don't recomend it I don't think
[01:19] <rob1> no
[01:19] <rob1> they don't 
[02:44] <mdke> rob1, applied, thanks
[02:45] <mdke> rob1, ah crap, did you change the css location?
[02:47] <rob1> no
[02:47] <rob1> ?
[02:47] <mdke> <link rel="stylesheet" href="faqguide-all_files/faqguide.css" type="text/css">
[02:47] <mdke> no idea wtf that came from
[02:48] <rob1> oh, that might of happen when I downloaded a copy, blame firefox
[02:48] <mdke> oh probably
[02:48] <mdke> i'll fix now
[02:49] <rob1> thanks
[02:49] <rob1> do you know of a good linux distro for little kids?
[02:49] <mdke> yeah
[02:49] <mdke> ubuntu
[02:49] <rob1> heh
[02:49] <rob1> I'm talking a three year old
[02:49] <mdke> ok css working
[02:49] <mdke> three year olds are too young for computers
[02:50] <mdke> (IMO)
[02:50] <rob1> nah
[02:50] <rob1> he loves playing quake and stuff
[02:50] <rob1> I just got him his own puter'
[02:51] <rob1> brb
[02:51] <mdke> damn
[02:51] <mdke> failure to get linux on ipod
[02:55] <Madpilot> a 3 year old playing Quake? gah...
[02:56] <mdke> scary shit
[03:26] <rob1> heh
[03:26] <Madpilot> hi Burgundavia
[03:29] <mdke> hello
[03:30] <rob1> ubuntu has icewm doesn't it?
[03:30] <mdke> sure
[03:30] <LaserJock> so why does doc.ubuntu.com exist? Is it anything more than the DocumentationTeam wiki?
[03:30] <rob1> LaserJock, yes
[03:30] <mdke> LaserJock, it is not a wiki at all
[03:30] <mdke> it is just a website
[03:31] <mdke> our homepage
[03:31] <mdke> it hosts our work in progress documentation
[03:31] <LaserJock> ah, because that would be hard to do on the wiki, but is easy in html?
[03:32] <rob1> ?
[03:32] <mdke> eh?
[03:32] <LaserJock> work in progress
[03:32] <rob1> theres a set of scripts that make html versions of our xml docs
[03:32] <mdke> LaserJock, we work in docbook xml. the previews are generated into html
[03:32] <rob1> and put them there
[03:32] <Burgundavia> salut Madpilot 
[03:32] <mdke> hi corey
[03:33] <LaserJock> ok, I am just trying to figure out the difference, I think I see it now
[03:33] <mdke> gah
[03:33] <mdke> i know I'm up late if I get my cron mail
[03:33] <rob1> heh
[03:33] <mdke> LaserJock, basically doc.ubuntu.com is our website, and help.ubuntu.com is where documentation is hosted. That is the current situation anyhow
[03:33] <rob1> I'm doing a server install on an old box, then install icewm
[03:34] <mdke> sounds good
[03:34] <rob1> hopefully it should go smoothly
[03:35] <mdke> i did a server plus xubuntu-desktop on here the other day
[03:35] <mdke> i prefer gnome though
[03:35] <LaserJock> openbox is also quite nice
[03:36] <rob1> does it have a decent gui?
[03:37] <LaserJock> what do you mean by gui?
[03:37] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: how did that laptop install go?
[03:37] <rob1> well a three year old will be using it, so he needs to click on stuff
[03:38] <Madpilot> rob1: you're not going to make him learn the command line first?
[03:38] <Madpilot> :P
[03:38] <rob1> heh
[03:38] <mdke> haha
[03:38] <LaserJock> rob1: you could do it but it might be some work
[03:38] <rob1> he needs to learn to spell first :)
[03:38] <mdke> he needs his quake hit
[03:38] <rob1> yes
[03:38] <mdke> so get the gui up fast
[03:38] <rob1> he knows the asdw keys
[03:38] <mdke> lol
[03:39] <mdke> that's just so wrong
[03:39] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, after I fought with windows for a while, I decided to come back with a livecd and use that. I am going tomorrow
[03:39] <Madpilot> rob1: so he could function just fine on some IRC channels, I guess
[03:39] <LaserJock> openbox is pretty minimal, last time I used it was with gentoo so I don't know about how it might work in Ubuntu
[03:39] <rob1> heh, #ubuntuforums for one
[03:39] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: I thought you were going with Vector Linux on that laptop?
[03:39] <rob1> (sorry mdke)
[03:40] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, I was, but there was some data that needs to be pulled off first
[03:40] <rob1> vector is too bright, reminds me of xp
[03:40] <rob1> and I hate slackware packaging..
[03:40] <rob1> heh
[03:41] <Burgundavia> well MenusRevised is getting lots of comments
[03:42] <mdke> good stuff
[03:43] <mdke> Kinnison Senior was quite right about removing xsane, that blows
[03:43] <LaserJock> Burgundavia: do you mean MenusRevisited ?
[03:45] <Madpilot> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MenusRevisited/Comments
[03:45] <rob1> hmm I dont know about hiding totem
[03:45] <mdke> hiding totem? geez
[03:45] <mdke> who are these fascists
[03:45] <rob1> ms don't hide mediaplayer
[03:45] <LaserJock> Madpilot: ok thanks, I wasn't sure
[03:46] <mdke> blimey
[03:47] <mdke> i don't like that spec much actually, now I read it
[03:47] <mdke> purging system tools >_<
[03:47] <mdke> applications seem to be getting put into the administration menu which are not administrative
[03:48] <rob1> yep
[03:48] <Madpilot> TobiasWolf has a good point: "For new inexperienced users functional completeness of the system is mirrored in the application menus."
[03:49] <rob1> whist the menus could do with a little bit of cleaning up, I don't think we need to go as nuts as that
[03:49] <mdke> agreed
[03:49] <mdke> in fact it will be harmful
[03:50] <LaserJock> by hide it means that we can open the menu editor and get them back, right ?
[03:50] <rob1> LaserJock, yeah but how stupid is that
[03:50] <rob1> ?
[03:50] <LaserJock> rob1: well, I can kinda see having a clean default
[03:50] <rob1> just kill the unused things like bittorrent etc
[03:51] <rob1> Linux is all about choice, by killing half of the menu we are removing a lot of that choice
[03:51] <Madpilot> moving some of this stuff off the menus basically means having to launch it thru Nautilus - like torrents, if you want to re-launch a .torrent you've already got on your system...
[03:52] <rob1> hmm openbox+rox looks nice
[03:52] <LaserJock> rob1: I agree, I think you can reorginize or make the menus clearer without removing half the apps
[03:53] <mdke> Madpilot, you need both options in my opinion, I open lots of programs from the menus, and frequently from nautilus too
[03:53] <rob1> hmm looks like my horay cd crapped out during install
[03:53] <Madpilot> mdke: yeah, that's what I was getting at
[03:53] <LaserJock> rob1: on gentoo I used openbox + gnome-panel a lot but that would probably be overkill for you.
[03:53] <mdke> Madpilot, looks like lots of people think that way too
[03:54] <rob1> yeah the PC is an amd 500mhz with 130mb ram
[03:54] <Madpilot> I do think that the Accessories/System Tools/Preferences/Administration stuff needs to be cleaned up - 
[03:54] <LaserJock> hmm, I hardly every you nautilus. I might have to look at it more
[03:54] <LaserJock> s/you/use
[03:54] <Madpilot> LaserJock: you don't use the file manager?
[03:54] <LaserJock> Madpilot: no, CLI
[03:54] <mdke> -> bed
[03:54] <rob1> Madpilot, use the cli most of the time too
[03:54] <LaserJock> Madpilot: I haven't gotten the hang of a filemanager
[03:54] <rob1> night mdke 
[03:55] <rob1> its just easier
[03:55] <LaserJock> good night mdke
[03:55] <LaserJock> The only time I use nautilus is when I need to transfer somthing to my usb stick.
[03:55] <Madpilot> the only time I use the CLI for file management is when I have to use sudo - typing "sudo mv <whatever>" is easier than relaunching Naut w/ visudo nautilus
[03:56] <rob1> nah, copying stuff for instance is much eaiser using cli
[03:56] <LaserJock> hmm, amazing how diverse users are. That is why taking out a lot the menu might be a bad idea
[03:56] <rob1> try using ratpoison for a while, the mouse is useless :)
[03:56] <mdke> i use the file manager for copying files over ssh
[03:57] <mdke> i find it a lot easier
[03:57] <Madpilot> rob1: I'd last about two hours w/o a mouse, I think :)
[03:57] <rob1> I still use cli ssh
[03:57] <LaserJock> rob1: me too
[03:57] <mdke> rob1, you gotta try nautilus, it is pretty good
[03:57] <LaserJock> I ssh to my Ubuntu box from Windows a lot so everything is CLI
[03:58] <mdke> there are gui windows scp clients
[03:58] <rob1> mdke, I did once and gave up in frustration
[03:58] <rob1> if gnome had something like kioslaves I'd probably use gui tools more
[03:59] <LaserJock> mdke: yeah, but it is faster for me to CLI cause I am doing other stuff at the same time
[04:00] <rob1> bbl
[08:30] <rob1> oooh a beta of the debian installer is out
[11:20] <pawan> hi
[11:21] <pawan> how do i extract file names for translated po files so that mo files
[11:47] <rob1> blah mdke is sleeping..
[11:47] <rob1> don't you hate when you have what seems like a good idea and no one around to tell it to :P
[11:55] <pawan> why should i ... 
[12:13] <mdke> just got up
[12:14] <mdke> rob1, that is a rocking idea
[12:14] <mdke> pawan, i don't understand your question. also, it seems a bit off-topic for #ubuntu-doc
[04:36] <jsgotangco> hello
[04:39] <Belutz> jsgotangco, hai!
[04:39] <Belutz> jsgotangco, i've been looking for you
[04:40] <highvoltage> hi everyone.
[04:40] <Belutz> jsgotangco, have you read your email?
[04:40] <jsgotangco> Belutz: yeah
[04:40] <jsgotangco> Belutz: RMS wow
[04:40] <Belutz> yup RMS
[04:41] <Belutz> thank God it's not RPM :p
[04:41] <jsgotangco> how many times did RMS already go there?
[04:41] <jsgotangco> the guy just loves indonesia i notice
[04:41] <Belutz> three times i guess
[04:41] <jsgotangco> Belutz: dec. 1-2 i will be in seoul
[04:42] <Belutz> ic :-(
[04:42] <jsgotangco> if i can arrage it i can fly the next day
[04:42] <Belutz> ok, i already send an email to the event commitee, asking if they could add a slot to the event for ubuntu presentation
[04:43] <Belutz> if they could provide it, i'll let you know asap
[04:43] <jsgotangco> if you can confirm it, i will tell jane about it as well
[04:43] <Belutz> ok
[04:43] <jsgotangco> since i'm already confirmed in seoul, it'll be hairy
[04:43] <jsgotangco> haha
[04:43] <Belutz> *hooraayy i'm going to meet jsgotangco ^_^ *
[04:44] <jsgotangco> saturday eh?
[04:44] <Belutz> friday
[04:44] <jsgotangco> eh?
[04:44] <jsgotangco> 3 is a saturday
[04:44] <Belutz> oops
[04:44] <Belutz> yes saturday
[04:44] <jsgotangco> what time would it be?
[04:44] <Belutz> i was looking at nov 2006 :-(
[04:45] <Belutz> 8.30 - 16.30 indonesian time (GMT +7)
[04:45] <jsgotangco> yikes
[04:46] <Belutz> yikes? :p
[04:46] <jsgotangco> well i couild probably leave seoul on the night of the 2nd
[04:46] <Belutz> if they could provide a slot, i will ask them to be at almost the end of the seminar
[04:46] <jsgotangco> Belutz: i can't promise though...i still have to talk to the travel agent...
[04:46] <mdke> hey jerome
[04:47] <jsgotangco> hey mdke 
[04:47] <Belutz> jsgotangco, yes i know, and i can't promise that they could provide a slot also
[04:47] <jsgotangco> jdub's bbt is tiring, but going to speak in seoul then to jakarta a day after the other can be killer
[04:48] <jsgotangco> Belutz: although the site you mentioned had ubuntu
[04:48] <Belutz> jsgotangco, yup
[04:48] <jsgotangco> mdke: how's saturday?
[04:49] <Belutz> one of the seminar topic is demonstration of linux distro based on debian
[04:49] <Belutz> but i think they will demonstrate knoppix
[04:49] <mdke> jsgotangco, saturday is ok. I've been trying (and failing) to get ipodlinux on my ipod
[04:49] <Belutz> because knoppix is quiet popular in here
[04:50] <jsgotangco> Belutz: how is the state of l10n there?
[04:50] <Belutz> l10n for ubuntu?
[04:50] <jsgotangco> debian in general
[04:50] <Belutz> for gnome it's already 93%
[04:50] <jsgotangco> wow
[04:50] <Belutz> i don't know about debian :(
[04:51] <jsgotangco> sometimes its better to do core stuff for l10n on debian upstream because it automatically goes to every derivative
[04:51] <jsgotangco> even ubuntu
[04:51] <Belutz> i see
[04:52] <jsgotangco> Belutz: let's just wait and see what pans out, if you can confirm, we'll worry then :)
[04:52] <Belutz> jsgotangco, ok :-)
[04:53] <Belutz> :-)
[04:53] <jsgotangco> Belutz: i checked the website, i did understand my words though, it seems only RMS is keynote?
[04:54] <Belutz> the other is hmm what do you called it in english... hmm the head of magazine?
[04:54] <jsgotangco> editor in chief?
[04:56] <Belutz> yup editor in chief of Info Linux magazine
[04:56] <Belutz> and also a lecturer from Indonesia University
[04:56] <jsgotangco> Belutz: i could have asked mako, but remember he also has conflicts and can't go to seoul too...
[04:56] <jsgotangco> we were supposed to go together in seoul...
[04:56] <Belutz> i see
[04:57] <jsgotangco> originally it should have been jdub going to seoul but he's already booked in OSDC
[04:57] <jsgotangco> asia needs a lot of loving
[04:58] <Belutz> true :-)
[05:00] <jsgotangco> who is  Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim
[05:00] <Belutz> he is a lecturer from Indonesia Univertisity
[05:01] <Belutz> i think RMS is not coming, it will be just a teleconference
[05:01] <jsgotangco> oohhhh
[05:02] <jsgotangco> hmm
[05:02] <Belutz> what diamond?
[05:03] <Belutz> can i sell it? lol :-)
[05:03] <jsgotangco> haha
[05:03] <jsgotangco> Belutz: who's Tina
[05:03] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:03] <Belutz> ah
[05:03] <Belutz> Tina, i knew her from blogwalking
[05:03] <Belutz> she's an Indonesian who lives in germany for now
[05:03] <jsgotangco> hmm she's in germany
[05:04] <Belutz> with her family
[05:04] <highvoltage> :)
[05:04] <Belutz> in ulm
[05:05] <jsgotangco> she's pretty
[05:05] <Belutz> she is :-)
[05:06] <jsgotangco> we get a lot of tv ads here mostly shampoo ads from indonesia, but translated to english
[05:06] <jsgotangco> its either from indonesia or thailand
[05:06] <Belutz> can a non english blog goes into planet.u.c? :p
[05:06] <mdke> no
[05:06] <mdke> but you can post english posts
[05:06] <jsgotangco> why not?
[05:06] <mdke> and tag them
[05:07] <Belutz> there are some shampoo ads in here is also translated in Indonesia, from thailand maybe
[05:07] <jsgotangco> ok so the ladies in thailand are prettier lol
[05:08] <Belutz> not really *grin*
[05:09] <jsgotangco> Belutz: do you know the organizers of the event?
[05:09] <Belutz> jsgotangco, no i'm not :-(
[05:09] <jsgotangco> i doubt it if you can convince them for a slot
[05:10] <Belutz> well, it's worth to try
[05:10] <jsgotangco> sure
[05:10] <Belutz> :-)
[05:11] <jsgotangco> ok so "Tina" mentioned Ubuntu that's a good sign
[05:11] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: how far is thailand from where you are? (sorry, my geography sux)
[05:12] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: probably around 4 hours by plance
[05:12] <jsgotangco> s/plance/plane
[05:12] <jsgotangco> hong kong is just 2 hours by plane
[05:12] <Belutz> jsgotangco, i think her husband is using SUSE in her house, and she and her husband also mentioned that they download ubuntu
[05:12] <highvoltage> ok, that's still quite far.
[05:13] <highvoltage> janew said the next ubz/ubz-like meeting might be in thailand.
[05:13] <highvoltage> i'm definately saving up for that one.
[05:13] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: WHOAAAAAA
[05:13] <Belutz> in thailand?
[05:13] <Belutz> hmmm
[05:14] <Belutz> can a non-developer come? :p
[05:14] <highvoltage> Belutz: i think so.
[05:14] <jsgotangco> Belutz: sure
[05:14] <highvoltage> Belutz: but you're a member, so you must be doing something already!
[05:14] <jsgotangco> yeah
[05:14] <Belutz> hmmm
[05:14] <jsgotangco> shout to the world you're a contributor
[05:15] <Belutz> just translations is not enough then...
[05:15] <jsgotangco> Belutz: that's what you think
[05:15] <mdke> anyone can go to the developer conference afaik
[05:15] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:16] <Belutz> i hope i had some money to go there by then
[05:16] <jsgotangco> the devel conference isn't mostly about hacking stuff
[05:16] <jsgotangco> half of the time, community stuff are planned as well
[05:16] <Belutz> i see
[05:17] <Belutz> hmm my friend already received his 5.10 cd's from shipit
[05:17] <jsgotangco> but anyone is welcome to contribute to a spec/BoF
[05:17] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: marlize handles cd shipments?
[05:17] <highvoltage> mdke: do you think you'll be coming too if it's in thailand?
[05:17] <mdke> highvoltage, no, very unlikely
[05:17] <mdke> i won't get the time off work
[05:18] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: i know she handles it in .za, but i think she's taken on more responsibility recently, not sure.
[05:18] <highvoltage> mdke: what kind of work are you doing now? lawyer work?
[05:18] <mdke> yeah
[05:18] <jsgotangco> did you handle murder cases already?
[05:18] <mdke> heh
[05:18] <mdke> i don't do that sort of law
[05:18] <jsgotangco> its its mostly corproate law, i'm not buying
[05:19] <mdke> heh
[05:19] <jsgotangco> does uk have tort law too?
[05:19] <mdke> i'm with a group that does commercial law
[05:19] <mdke> yes :)
[05:19] <highvoltage> that's very strange. mdke is a lawyer, and yet i don't hate him.
[05:19] <mdke> tort law is english in origin
[05:19] <mdke> highvoltage, :)(
[05:19] <mdke> whoops
[05:19] <jsgotangco> mdke: so tort  law is worse there? 
[05:19] <mdke> :)
[05:19] <mdke> jsgotangco, worse?
[05:19] <jsgotangco> i mean compared to tort cases in the us
[05:20] <mdke> it's difficult to describe a whole category of law as better or worse
[05:20] <mdke> the system is fairly good
[05:20] <jsgotangco> like say you sue McD for giving you high levels of cholesterol
[05:20] <mdke> oh i see
[05:20] <mdke> there is less of a litigation culture in the UK than in the US, thank god
[05:20] <jsgotangco> or that you got allergies after eating frog pie
[05:20] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[05:20] <mdke> people still sue each other too much, but it's not as bad
[05:21] <jsgotangco> you should handle immigration cases, it'll make you rich for sure
[05:21] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:22] <mdke> don't worry, commercial law is quite lucrative
[05:22] <jsgotangco> is there something like antitrust law in the uk?
[05:22] <mdke> yes
[05:22] <mdke> we call it "competition law"
[05:22] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[05:22] <mdke> it's mainly european based
[05:23] <mdke> yeah that is quite an interesting subject
[05:23] <jsgotangco> its just like the 
[05:24] <mdke> the EU only legislates in certain specific areas
[05:24] <jsgotangco> hey i finally got to use  in a useful way
[05:24] <jsgotangco> hehe
[05:24] <jsgotangco> anway's what's  for?
[05:25] <mdke> i don't see that symbol in irssi
[05:25] <jsgotangco> interesting
[05:25] <jsgotangco> i dunno if we have the same keymap but its with ` and | beside the space bar
[05:26] <jsgotangco> | can only be used with alt gr
[05:26] <mdke> guess not ;)
[05:26] <mdke>  ?
[05:26] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:26] <mdke> no idea
[05:26] <jsgotangco> what's that
[05:26] <Belutz> jsgotangco, http://www.debian.org/international/l10n/po/id
[05:26] <jsgotangco> the weird looking line
[05:27] <mdke> highvoltage, so you've had some bad experiences with lawyers eh?
[05:27] <jsgotangco> mdke: how come uk keyboards have it? heh
[05:27] <mdke> i dunno what it is
[05:27] <jsgotangco> Belutz: that's a lot of green stuff which is good...
[05:28] <Belutz> jsgotangco, yes i think so, Mohammad DAMT is really good at it
[05:28] <jsgotangco> Belutz: the only major component we got to translate at the moment to Tagalog is Debian-Installer
[05:28] <jsgotangco> Belutz: id's efforts are better compraed to tl
[05:29] <Belutz> really?
[05:29] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:30] <jsgotangco> Belutz: its because majority of our population grew up learning english in schools so there's very little need for them to use a localized system
[05:30] <Belutz> so in here
[05:30] <jsgotangco> Belutz: basically our language didn't evolve compared to the other languages
[05:30] <highvoltage> mdke: nah, perhaps i just watched the practice too much :P
[05:30] <Belutz> the computer stuffs, if translated to indonesian seems weird
[05:31] <mdke> highvoltage, what is that?
[05:31] <highvoltage> mdke: a TV series about lawyers. i just assumed that you have probably seen it.
[05:31] <Belutz> i like old tv series, LA Law :p
[05:31] <mdke> nope i haven't seen many american ones
[05:32] <mdke> is it american?
[05:32] <Belutz> the practice is american
[05:32] <highvoltage> yes, it's american.
[05:32] <Belutz> it has sharon stone :p
[05:32] <mdke> mmm football is on tv
[05:32] <jsgotangco> soccer
[05:32] <jsgotangco> hehehe
[05:32] <mdke> england against argentina
[05:33] <jsgotangco> mdke: have you got to watch NFL
[05:33] <mdke> no, i wish
[05:33] <mdke> i like american football too
[05:33] <jsgotangco> what i don't understand is rugby and australian football
[05:34] <jsgotangco> add cricket as well
[05:34] <mdke> cricket is the greatest sport in the world ever
[05:35] <jsgotangco> mdke: if you can explain cricket to me in a simple manner, i'd be willing to play that cricket game for my ps2 that got stuck for years
[05:35] <mdke> it's kinda like baseball
[05:35] <jsgotangco> all i know is that one or two guys are aiming at sticks
[05:35] <mdke> one team "bats"
[05:35] <mdke> two of the players bat at a time
[05:35] <mdke> (instead of one in baseball)
[05:36] <jsgotangco> i notice the batters face each other
[05:36] <jsgotangco> which i find it rather odd
[05:36] <mdke> basically one person bats, and the other watches
[05:37] <mdke> then if they score a point, by running up and down the pitch, they swap ends
[05:37] <jsgotangco> why?
[05:37] <Belutz> http://kuduisolinux.blogspot.com/ <--- kubuntu blog by an Indonesian blogger
[05:37] <jsgotangco> wait a minute
[05:37] <Belutz> in english :-)
[05:37] <jsgotangco> if the guy who bats hit it
[05:37] <jsgotangco> they swap bsae?
[05:37] <mdke> if they have enough time before the other team returns the ball, yeah
[05:37] <mdke> highvoltage, help me out here...
[05:37] <highvoltage> i understand rugby, but not the american stuff :)
[05:38] <mdke> this is cricket
[05:38] <jsgotangco> mdke: strange if you ask me
[05:38] <highvoltage> ah, cricket
[05:38] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: cricket is totally different than baseball. cricket is a gentleman's game :)
[05:38] <jsgotangco> what's the "cricket" side then? just swapping bases even if its just in front of eaach other
[05:39] <mdke> heh
[05:39] <highvoltage> they make runs.
[05:39] <highvoltage> it's not really just swapping :)
[05:39] <jsgotangco> how long is the pitch?
[05:39] <mdke> 22 yards
[05:39] <jsgotangco> that's not too far
[05:40] <jsgotangco> then why do they have sticks stuck on the ground?
[05:40] <mdke> those are like the targets for the other team, the batting team has to protect them
[05:40] <jsgotangco> and they don't look like bats to me hehee more like paddles
[05:40] <mdke> in baseball terms, that is like the plate
[05:41] <mdke> and if the balls hits those sticks (stumps) then he is out
[05:41] <jsgotangco> you only get 1 chance?
[05:41] <mdke> yep
[05:41] <jsgotangco> Belutz: there's no cricket in indonesia right?
[05:41] <Belutz> jsgotangco, nope
[05:42] <jsgotangco> Belutz: good
[05:42] <Belutz> hahaha
[05:42] <jsgotangco> mdke: i still find it rather boring as a sport
[05:42] <mdke> heh
[05:42] <mdke> you need to get to know it better
[05:43] <mdke> my girlfriend hates it with a passion tho
[05:43] <jsgotangco> compared to say hoops or american football
[05:43] <jsgotangco> because your girlfriend is italian and prefers footsie?
[05:44] <Belutz> am i the one who still single in here?
[05:44] <mdke> she's not big on sport, but I think she hates cricket on principle because I like it :)
[05:45] <jsgotangco> Belutz: define "single"...not married or no partner
[05:45] <Belutz> not married and no partner
[05:46] <jsgotangco> Belutz: then stop hanging out in irc then heh
[05:46] <Belutz> hahaha
[05:46] <Belutz> is there any geek girls in here? *look around the channel*
[05:47] <jsgotangco> Belutz: geek girls are no different from non-geek girls when it comes to romance/love
[05:47] <mdke> no?
[05:48] <Belutz> i see, but geek girls if they are mad at me, they will go to her computer, non-geek girls will run to other man :p
[05:48] <mdke> Belutz, good thinking
[05:48] <highvoltage> Belutz: so when your geek girl runs to her computer, you can make up again over irc?
[05:49] <Belutz> then we could solve the problem with doing a Counter Strike battle.... lol
[05:49] <jsgotangco> doh
[05:49] <Belutz> highvoltage, no, it was just an excuse :p
[05:49] <highvoltage> :)
[05:50] <jsgotangco> i know a lot of local geek girls that are really pretty but they're really non-geek outside work
[05:50] <jsgotangco> last friday we went to a ktv bar
[05:50] <mdke> lol
[05:50] <mdke> i love the idea of making up over irc
[05:50] <jsgotangco> 3 of them were geek girls and just singing their hearts out with celine dion songs
[05:51] <Belutz> at least i want to meet indonesian girl who understand linux :p
[05:51] <jsgotangco> which wasn't a pretty sight
[05:51] <Belutz> so if we get married, i don't have to install windows
[05:52] <Belutz> lol
[05:52] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: in .za, ktv is a childrens station, with heavy ktv branding on all their stuff. they do things like release "ktv britney spears" cd's. a "ktv" bar sounds like a kiddies bar :)
[05:53] <jsgotangco> what do they call it then for older folks?
[05:53] <highvoltage> just bars, i guess.
[05:54] <jsgotangco> heh the ktv bars here, are really nice
[05:54] <jsgotangco> the bigger rooms even have mirror balls
[05:57] <jsgotangco> wow xbox 360 is coming out in 2 weeks
[06:05] <highvoltage> big deal.
[06:05] <highvoltage> :P
[06:07] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: i work for a game company its a big deal
[06:07] <jsgotangco> (for me)
[06:08] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:08] <mdke> how is the new job jsgotangco ?
[06:08] <highvoltage> aaaah
[06:08] <jsgotangco> mdke: pretty good, got to meet some monster java devels at work
[06:08] <mdke> jolly good
[06:08] <mdke> nice people?
[06:08] <jsgotangco> mdke: at the moment, the system is still adjusting to me
[06:08] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:09] <mdke> fair enough
[06:10] <jsgotangco> yeah
[06:10] <jsgotangco> but i feel so old
[06:10] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:10] <mdke> nah
[06:10] <jsgotangco> its like more than half of them didn't experience using a 5" floppy
[06:10] <jsgotangco> and even have no idea of os/2
[06:11] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:39] <jsgotangco> night
[06:49] <highvoltage> nighto jsgotangco 
[07:58] <mdke__> mamma mia
[08:02] <Madpilot> ?
[08:02] <mdke> network issues
[08:02] <Madpilot> ah
[08:23] <corey_> well, dapper has hit slashdot
[08:24] <corey_> Ubuntu...  How to make Novell and RedHat _crap_ their pants in four easy releases...
[08:24] <corey_> The biggest problem for Ubuntu is...
[08:24] <corey_>  They are squandering all these excellent release names too quickly.
[08:24] <corey_> Look at the years of wear that Microsoft got from Chicago, Cairo, Longhorn and now, Vista! That, my friends, is real marketing.
[08:24] <corey_> Slow down, you crazy Ubuntu cowboys!
[08:25] <highvoltage> yeeha!
[08:25] <corey_> random slashdot comments are pretty funny
[08:27] <corey_> I can
[08:27] <corey_> t wait until all those /.ers see our new installer
[08:27] <corey_> how to kill all of their "Ubuntu installer is ugly" in one fell swoop
[08:27] <Kyral> New installer say what?
[08:27] <Kyral> granted I think NCurses is sexy :P
[08:27] <corey_> Kyral, Ubuntu-express, the live cd based installer
[08:28] <Kyral> Very nice this will make world domination easy
[08:28] <Kyral> err
[08:28] <Kyral> Wow I'm in an odd mood
[08:29] <corey_> we are already on the path to world domination
[08:29] <Kyral> lol
[08:29] <corey_> this will just make is more smooth when we ask them to bend over
[08:29] <Kyral> lol
[08:29] <Kyral> But yah, one CD for everything will make things easy
[08:33] <Kyral> Remind me to disable compositing before running Cedega
[08:34] <Burglaptop> ah
[08:35] <Kyral> I forgot that Compositing eats OpenGL
[08:37] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: are you channelling Bill Gates this morning or something? "this will just make is more smooth when we ask them to bend over" indeed...
[08:37] <Burglaptop> hey
[08:38] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: hey to you too. I took the day off again - damned cold is nearly gone, but not quite
[11:38] <rob1> mdke, ping
[11:38] <mdke> pong
[11:38] <rob1> hi
[11:38] <mdke> lo
[11:38] <rob1> got my email I take it
[11:38] <mdke> the one about feedback?
[11:39] <mdke> i replied...
[11:39] <rob1> yeah
[11:39] <rob1> what do you mean by wiki page? an annoucement?
[11:39] <mdke> just ideas about how we'd go about it
[11:39] <rob1> ah
[11:39] <mdke> i've been talking to henrik a bit about this sort of thing
[11:39] <mdke> he's got some ideas too
[11:40] <rob1> what did he say?
[11:40] <rob1> nice
[11:40] <mdke> well we are talking about hosting for the docs and the wiki
[11:40] <mdke> in the context of the better wiki docs thing
[11:40] <mdke> but he was talking a lot about feedback on our WIP and stable docs
[11:41] <rob1> the problem with stable docs is that we can't change them
[11:41] <mdke> i thought a nice idea would be to have a link at the top of each page which allows users to post to the ML via a web comment system
[11:41] <mdke> yeah but that doesn't stop users giving feedback
[11:41] <rob1> like our own bugzilla setup?
[11:42] <mdke> not really no
[11:43] <mdke> just perhaps a link in the header bar of every page/wiki theme which points at a page which gives the possibility for users to mail us, or to malone, or other ways of giving feedback
[11:43] <rob1> well I would like to get the community more involved in the review stage too
[11:43] <mdke> me too
[11:43] <rob1> all of the bugs in the faq guide would have been picked up before released if we did for breezy
[11:43] <mdke> what I suggested would apply equally to the preview documents
[11:44] <mdke> rob1, hopefully that will happen a lot if we get the doc into dapper quick
[11:44] <rob1> well none are ready yet, but yes the sooner the better
[11:44] <mdke> sure, not now, but soon