=== LeeJunFan_away [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== hunger_ [n=hunger@p54A61DD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== KaiL_ [n=KaiL@p548F47DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== hunger_ [n=hunger@p54A63014.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== freeflying [n=freeflyi@] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== freeflying is away: Away at the moment
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== hunger_ [n=hunger@p54A6335E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== insanekane [n=kane@] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== unstableabel [n=kane@] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== hunger_ [n=hunger@p54A61B7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== OculusAquilae [n=bastian@p548D10EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== insanekane [n=kane@] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== unstableabel [n=kane@] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== freeflying [n=freeflyi@] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== pef [n=loic@ubuntu/member/pef] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== hunger_ [n=hunger@p54A64323.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== OculusAquilae [n=bastian@p548D23C8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== m-fox [n=m-fox@port-212-202-9-177.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== m-fox [n=m-fox@port-212-202-9-177.dynamic.qsc.de] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Kopete]
=== hunger_ is now known as hunger
=== Sime [n=konversa@ip54579d1b.direct-adsl.nl] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Konversation]
=== olwin [n=olwin@dyn-83-156-88-36.ppp.tiscali.fr] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== pef [n=loic@ubuntu/member/pef] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== verwilst [n=verwilst@dD5E00BC6.access.telenet.be] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== verwilst [n=verwilst@dD5E00BC6.access.telenet.be] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A6272E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel
verwilstis kdevelop 3.3rc1 packaged too for ubuntu?02:00
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== olwin fait des crpes ;): Away at the moment
Tm_Taerh, is there ready list of dapper repositories? I'm too lazyto write them myself02:27
=== author-psi [n=marcel@p509075BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Tm_Tyup, upgrading to dapper02:59
=== olwin [n=olwin@dyn-83-156-88-36.ppp.tiscali.fr] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== allee [n=ach@dialin-212-144-128-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== jeroenvrp [n=jeroenvr@k-uptown.xs4all.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel
jeroenvrphi folksa03:38
jeroenvrpcan someone please tell me when all KDE3.5RC1 packages will be available?03:38
Tm_Tdefine all03:40
jeroenvrpTm_T: the rest :-)03:40
jeroenvrpbut can you tell me?03:40
Tm_Twell, I think 3.5 will have them all03:40
Tm_Tas soon as you package them ;)03:41
jeroenvrpkubuntu.org says: "KDE 3.5 Release Candiate 1 has been released, the base packages are available for Kubuntu with more being uploaded this weekend."03:41
=== Tm_T doesn't know if someone already doing em
=== pef [n=loic@ubuntu/member/pef] has joined #kubuntu-devel
author-psihi OculusAquilae 03:56
OculusAquilaewhat would you think of customize minicli for kubuntu like that: http://oculusaquilae.de/kubuntu/dapper/minicli-sudo.png03:56
OculusAquilaeyou know it already author-psi, right?03:56
=== alleeHol [n=ach@dialin-212-144-130-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
author-psiyes, an the idea shows perfekt03:57
Tm_TOculusAquilae: to add "administrator" option? not bad04:04
=== author-psi [n=marcel@p509075BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
OculusAquilaeyes, and let the "other user"-option be only for different users not root04:05
Tm_Twhy not root too?04:05
Tm_Tanother users, including root04:06
OculusAquilaethat would make it more intuitive for new users, who don't know anything about root or something like that04:07
OculusAquilaeand it would display the idea of sudo in the gui04:07
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A64025.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
OculusAquilaea user without sudo rights could open a program with root-rights as a different user if he knows the password04:11
\shOculusAquilae: hum?04:11
OculusAquilae[16:11]  <\sh> OculusAquilae: hum?04:12
OculusAquilae[16:11]  <\sh> OculusAquilae: hum?04:12
\shOculusAquilae: u mean user X is not in group admin, he will be asked to become user Y which is in group admin?04:12
\shto fire up program A which needs root rights?04:12
OculusAquilaefirst I think of minicli04:13
OculusAquilaethe "Run as administrator" is greyed out if you are not in "admin", if you use "Run as different User" with a user in "admin" it would become black or something like that04:14
Riddellverwilst: not yet04:15
OculusAquilaeperhaps not greying out and you are asked to become a user in "admin"04:15
Riddelljeroenvrp: I'll make them today04:15
\shwell, there must be a reason, that User X is not in the admin group04:15
OculusAquilaeperhaps user Y want's to run a program while only user X is logged in04:16
\shOculusAquilae: no user who is not in the admin group should run applications which need root access04:16
\sheven not when he knows the password of a user which is in the admin group...that means, he could login as the admin user04:17
OculusAquilaehe could04:17
OculusAquilaebut he only wants to run one small application, because he is for example helping user X with something04:18
\shso User X who is not in the admin group, doesn't need to run application A as root or as another user04:18
OculusAquilaethat would in this case take time 04:19
\shOculusAquilae: but admins, u know, are quite sensitive with their passwords...so the admin user will take his time...or use "switch user" 04:19
OculusAquilaehe could04:20
\shhe will04:21
OculusAquilaebut in a private environment he won't perhaps04:21
\shOculusAquilae: so..u don't think about edubuntu :)04:21
\shOculusAquilae: which is using as well some parts of kde :)04:22
OculusAquilaebut it doesn't use minicli right?04:22
OculusAquilaei only think of minicli at the moment04:22
\shOculusAquilae: honestly i don't know..if it's installed by default from kdelibs, it has this feature after install of edubuntu04:23
OculusAquilaeim additionally of the opinion that programs like adept should show up in the menus of normal users04:23
\shOculusAquilae: adept should not show up in the menus of normal users..04:23
\shOculusAquilae: a change of behaviour of becoming administrator will confuse the user much more...leave it the way it is..well...actually adept needs more love in UI and handling 04:24
OculusAquilaei meant that :-)04:24
OculusAquilaeadditionally it would partly solve the problem that the minicli user change option doesn't work for normal users04:26
OculusAquilaeit only accepts the root-password04:26
OculusAquilaei meant only if you are in admin04:26
mornfalltell me tell me04:31
mornfallwhat adept needs?04:32
\shmornfall: a better UI...04:33
OculusAquilaemornfall: the things in the feature plan04:33
\shmornfall: press the cursor down key continously and see04:33
mornfall\sh: cursor down key where?04:34
\shmornfall: in the package list04:35
\shmornfall: i showed it to Riddell during the conference04:35
mornfallwell, it moves selection down and scrolls04:35
=== mornfall wonders what's wrong with it
\shif u press the cursor down key continously...the list cursor disappears, and the list is not scrolling :)04:36
mornfalloh, yeah, terrible04:36
mornfallthat's because of doublebuffering and event compression, i suppose04:36
\shthe other things are speed, and layout04:36
\shkynaptic which is crap is much faster...04:36
mornfallthat's because it doesn't really do anything :)04:36
\shand the layout e.g. for changing the sources.list should have a dialog box and not swapping the windows04:37
mornfall"should have" says who04:37
\shthe plain user04:37
mornfallyou think it would be better, eg... i don't04:37
mornfallplain user04:37
mornfallwho's that04:37
mornfalli don't buy into that04:37
\shmornfall: lets say it like this...all people I know using kubuntu and trying to adjust their sources.list and clicking the close button instead of going back04:38
=== alleeHol is now known as allee
mornfallhmm, food, brb04:38
mornfall\sh: interesting i never heard the complaint before :-)04:38
mornfalleither everyone but your friends keep it secret or it happens more among your friends than everywhere else...04:39
mornfallanyway, food now, really04:39
\shmornfall: well...the users I know are coming from the windows world...I converted them all to use ubuntu or kubuntu...and even I have problems seeing where I am..I e.g. just thought, it was a dialog box04:39
OculusAquilae\sh: about a normal user doesn't wan't to be admin: If a user didn't want to run applications as a different user, we could completely remove "Run as different user"04:45
OculusAquilaeor completely remove the Options in minicli04:46
\shOculusAquilae: hmm....sure..realtime scheduling is only possible when it runs as root, right?04:48
OculusAquilaeincreasing priority too04:49
\shso u have to change the UI actually04:49
\shdisable the last 2 options and enabling it actually only if run as admin is checked04:50
\shand run as admin and run as diff user should only be enabled when the user is in the admin group or in sudoers.conf04:51
OculusAquilaerunas diff user could be enabled if you are normal user too04:51
\shwell..after a 5th and 6th thought..yes04:52
Tm_Tpython-qt3-gl: Depends: python (< 2.4) but 2.4.2-0ubuntu2 is to be installed04:54
mornfall\sh: well, is there some actual survey resulting in "dialog boxes are good"?04:56
\shmornfall: dunno....04:56
mornfall\sh: because from all the remotely-usability-related people i have heard that not using dialog boxes was good :)04:56
mornfallso this poses an interesting challenge04:57
\shmornfall: but what do u think if we sit together with mvo and build an update-manager with a backend interface and 2 UI frontend interfaces?04:57
mornfallwith the semi-obvious solution being that the window close action goes to normal mode instead of closing when in non-normal mode04:57
mornfalleventually popping up a dialog box asking which of the two you prefer (and do not ask again checkbox)04:58
mornfall\sh: what do you mean, sit with mvo?04:58
mornfall\sh: mvo promised he will branch synaptic to use libapt-front at some point04:58
\shmornfall: well...for update manager and others there will be a change in UI anyways especially for the sources.list adjustements04:58
mornfallchange in ui in which sense?04:59
\shmornfall: mvo and I were talking about an update-manager for gnome and kde..which means we have to split the UI stuff out of the backend stuff (using python-apt)04:59
\shmornfall: the naming conventions are changed and it should be easier for the user to select the ubuntu repositories04:59
Riddell\sh: the adept updater doesn't use python-apt05:00
\shRiddell: i know :)05:00
mornfall\sh: in which case you will have to write the updater05:00
mornfall\sh: since i am not touching python with a 10 yard pole05:00
mornfallnor python-apt or pykde for that matter05:00
mornfall\sh: on another hand, when swig team gets around to make a release, we will have a single backend for both c++ and python software in libapt-front05:02
\shmornfall: the question was in general to find a way to get ubuntu and kubuntu vital admin utils as close as it can be...means one source and at least 3 binary packages e.g. update-manager-be, ubuntu-update-manager, kubuntu-update-manager05:02
mornfalldoesn't make much sense to me05:03
mornfallneither why should it come from a single source package05:03
mornfalli guess you want checkboxes for sources.list selection05:04
mornfallanything else that currently adept-updater cannot do?05:04
\shmornfall: update-manager-backend is only the logic behind all apt stuff...the frontends are only interacting with the backend...and this can be done with two python implementations one for gnome the other for kde05:04
mornfallwhat logic?05:04
mornfalladept udpater is 340 lines of C++, which is largely redundant and will be cut down considerably05:05
\shmornfall: w8.i'll get the spec05:05
mornfalli don't see what there could be split into backend05:05
Riddell\sh: adept{,-updater} uses libapt-front to abstract all the logic, it's synaptic that should be ported to that to get to what you propose :)05:06
mornfall\sh: http://rafb.net/paste/results/Ci6XuN79.html -- this is heart of the adept updater05:08
RiddellRepositoryDialogRedesign looks nice05:08
mornfall\sh: rest of the code is setting up the gui and stuff like that... parts of which will be cut down05:08
\shRiddell: synaptic and update-manager are not using the same source...so synaptic needs to be fixed, right...update-manager is a separate python app..which needs a bit more love to have it separated between logic and ui05:08
\shRiddell: that's why I wanted to have the same source base for ubuntu and kubuntu05:09
\shRiddell: regarding this repo dialog05:09
mornfall\sh: so what logic exactly there is?05:09
\shRiddell: the repo dialog is in gnome-software-properties05:09
OculusAquilaewasn't it planned to port synaptic to libapt-front?05:10
\shmornfall: installing, updating, upgrading, reading changelogs etc.05:10
mornfall\sh: all that logic should be in libapt-front (and apart from reading changelogs, it's there for some time anyway)05:10
mornfall\sh: i guess i'm missing your argument, sorry05:11
\shmornfall: again....update-manager is using python-apt which is libapt-front for python :)05:11
mornfall\sh: not at all05:11
\shmornfall: sorry..libapt-pkg05:12
mornfalland there are python bindings to libapt-front which can be used and already have most of the backend stuff you are talking about05:12
mornfallthey are only waiting for swig to make a release05:12
mornfallright now05:12
\shmornfall: the idea was not to reinvent the wheel again...and to share the work between the two UIs05:12
\shmornfall: and to give the user a "similar" UI design for both desktop environments05:13
mornfalli am not reinventing the wheel, it's just that libapt-pkg has a sort of useless api (demonstrated by eg synaptic wrapping it in a rather big library that happens to be somewhat specific to synaptic)05:13
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@s64-186-37-120.skycon.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
mornfall(and same goes to nearly every package manager out there having an own specific library)05:14
mornfall(and i am thinking that libapt-front is the first one to be shared by at least 2 otherwise independent projects)05:14
mornfallerr 305:14
Riddellmornfall: what's the other projects?05:14
mornfallRiddell: debtags and packagebrowser05:14
Riddelloh, cool05:15
mornfalloh and debtags-edit but that doesn't completely count05:15
mornfall(debtags-edit is a gtk ui for editing the debtags data)05:15
mornfallsynaptic was promised to be ported as well05:15
mornfallso maybe update-manager should follow too, instead of rewriting all that in python again?05:16
mornfall(now that would probably be reinventing wheels...)05:16
\shmornfall: update-manager is python :)05:17
OculusAquilae\sh: and libapt-front will have a python interface, right?05:17
mornfall\sh: so it needs to reimplement all the logic that is bound to python because of what?05:17
mornfall\sh: or you imply that instead we should rewrite everything else in python so we don't reinvent wheels?05:18
\shmornfall: the idea was to have one source base for the logic and two or more UIs attached to it...so we have only one source package for two or more flavours 05:20
mornfallcan you explain *why*?05:22
mornfallwhy it needs to be single source package05:22
mornfalland what you mean with that "logic" again05:22
mornfallbecause all the logic you so far mentioned belongs at least one level down the chain05:22
mornfalland should be shared with package managers as well05:22
mornfallnot only update managers05:23
mornfallwhat you propose obviously locks out synaptic and adept from using whatever "logic" there is05:23
mornfall(and any other tool that one may want to write)05:23
mornfallgiven libapt-front and swig bindings, you have all the logic in libraries that you can use from c++ *and* python (*and* ruby, at some point)05:24
mornfallso all the update managers *and* package managers *and* other tools can use it05:24
mornfall*and* it is not specific to (k)ubuntu so plain debian tools can use it as well05:25
=== mornfall gets back to implementing polynomial modulo groups
\shmornfall: we have right now different ui approaches for the same things...regarding sources.list adminstration, update managers etc. to make it as easy as it can for the users who are switching desktops we should avoid different ui approaches..05:25
mornfall\sh: now, IMHO, that's bs05:26
mornfall\sh: in that case, just use bluecurve and write the tools only once and they will be identical05:27
mornfall\sh: that's about what you want, anyway, no?05:27
\shmornfall: which was also an idea :)05:27
mornfallin the end, i'm glad i'm not using kubuntu (it's enough that i have to fight this on fedora...)05:30
Riddellyou use fedora?05:31
mornfalli work for redhat05:31
mornfallat work i use fedora05:31
mornfallat home debian05:31
\shI worked for redhat :) and that's why i'm not using fedora05:31
mornfalli eventually add rpm support to libapt-front and make adept work on it as well05:32
\shmornfall: what u want is "smart"05:32
\shmornfall: which will be used eventually for dapper +105:32
mornfall\sh: heh, no05:33
OculusAquilaedon't like smart 05:33
mornfall\sh: it may be used, but i won't use it05:33
mornfallit's sort of like yum05:33
mornfalland yum is the worst mistake i have seen so far05:33
\shmornfall: well....it's decided already as I understand mark :)05:33
mornfall\sh: i don't care, i don't use ubuntu anyway :)05:34
Riddellit's not decided, it's an idea05:34
\shRiddell: u know mark :) if he wants something :) he's the sabdfl :) 05:34
mornfallsmart is in python05:34
mornfalland python is dumb05:34
mornfallnot to mention slow05:34
Riddell\sh: mvo suggested you make a kde frontend to smart05:35
mornfallwell, smart works around that by writing parts in C05:35
\shRiddell: WHAT?05:35
mornfallyeh, good idea05:35
OculusAquilaefor small things python is nice05:35
mornfall\sh: go ahead :)05:35
mornfallOculusAquilae: i find octave better for arithmetic thanks ;-)05:35
\shRiddell: well actually I was pissed, that smart has only a gtk front05:35
OculusAquilae(but a package manager is to my mind not "small")05:35
mornfallthere're really few python/kde coders out there05:36
mornfallso you will have to do it yourself05:36
mornfalleven kde apt frontend had to be written by someone outside kubuntu05:36
mornfalland for me, smart is not an option05:36
\shmornfall: is fedora using now apt4rpm as default?05:37
mornfall\sh: no, yum05:37
mornfall\sh: another python package manager05:37
Riddell\sh: sounds like you're the man for the job.  apparantly it's really easy since smart is python and has all the logic in it05:37
\shmornfall: hmmm...in combination with RHN?05:37
mornfall\sh: i would prefer installshield though, it's lots faster05:37
mornfall\sh: no, RHEL is using up2date05:38
mornfall\sh: i guess we don't dare to unload the load of crap yum is on paying customers05:38
\shmornfall: btw..is spot still working for RH?05:38
mornfallspot = ?05:38
Riddellmornfall: \sh used to work for red hat, but presumably in a different country05:39
\shmornfall: I don't know his realname anymore..he was sitting at raleigh/durham in the nerd department :) I think he was working for 3rd support when I was visiting RH HQ 05:40
\shRiddell: EMEA yes :)05:40
\shRiddell: together with harald hoyer, who is doing a lot of fedora stuff nowadays05:41
mornfallok this doesn't matter and i have a polynomial group to find a generator for05:41
=== olwin travail parce qu'il le faut bien ;): Away at the moment
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A63EE4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
\shRiddell: i'll have a look at smart later during this cycle06:01
=== OculusAquilae [n=bastian@p548D23C8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
LeeJunFanwouldn't it make sense to have artsd startup somehow during init bound to with network enabled so multiple logins can all have sound or has this been hashed over before already?06:46
RiddellLeeJunFan: network would add lag (even localhost), and mostly multiple logins are ok either because the sound card driver can handle multiple programs or because arts lets go of the sound card after 60 seconds06:48
LeeJunFanif course then there's the problem of having an administator mode configurator for arts.06:48
Tm_TRiddell: using dapper ?06:48
RiddellTm_T: hmm?06:48
Tm_TRiddell: found interesting thing when compiling kopete06:48
Tm_Tin breezy, all fine06:48
Tm_Tdapper... well, trouble with visibility06:49
Tm_Tlet's see if one # fixes it :p06:49
RiddellTm_T: kopete 3.5rc1 compiled fine for me06:50
Tm_TRiddell: ah yes, dev-0.12 branch here :p06:50
Tm_Tand one before06:51
RiddellTm_T: that's not visibility, that's just gcc 4 being fussy06:51
Riddellor something06:52
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Tm_TRiddell: well, Darkshock said it might be it06:52
Tm_Tah yes, same error again06:53
Tm_TRiddell: hmm, any fixes?06:53
RiddellTm_T: use 3.5?06:54
Tm_Thave to try06:55
verwilstarts should die a violent death :p07:04
Riddellverwilst: if you use beta 2 it usually does 07:04
verwilsti'll be glad that kde 4.0 is here for soo many reasons :p07:05
Tm_TKDE4 is here ;)07:08
Tm_Tno, that's not my desktop07:08
author-psiTm_T: looks like my desktop :P kde 3.4.307:11
Tm_TI'm using rc107:12
author-psiim not the big fan of beta..07:13
=== Tm_T is using much svn stuff
author-psiTm_T: hehe how often you reinstall your system :D07:19
Tm_Tmy Kubuntu? not once07:19
Tm_TI even find apps working better in "unstable" branch than stable releases07:20
verwilstkde always looks clunky :$07:20
verwilsti hope it'll be solved with kde 4 :p07:20
Tm_TI don't understand07:24
Tm_TRiddell: yup, different gcc and things working ok07:27
=== cmvo [n=vcc@] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== cmvo [n=vcc@] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Konversation]
=== _marcel [n=marcel@p509075BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== spstarr_home [n=sh0n@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== olwin [n=olwin@dyn-83-156-88-36.ppp.tiscali.fr] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== _marcel is now known as author-psi-afk
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A61501.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== jeroenvrp is weg: Away at the moment
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A60EBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== mae [n=mae@dpc674653178.direcpc.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel
maeis it true that MS wants to make kubuntu rock more now? :)10:45
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A60EBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Riddellmae: Mark Shuttleworth does, Microsoft doesn't :)10:46
maewell - i assumed you would not think M$ wants to make kubuntu rock10:47
maekde has a lot of potential but its missing alot of the nice automagic features that the current ubuntu gnome has10:47
Riddellmae: any specific examples?10:48
maewell you know - the nice extensions that ubuntu wrote for synaptic10:48
maeum - digikam doesn't autodetect cameras nicely like gthumb10:49
Riddellmae: specific example would help here, so we can write them10:49
maethe autoupdate applet10:49
=== mae thinks
Riddellwe do have adept-updater, we just need a thingy to poke the user when updates are needed10:50
maeRiddell: do you work for canonical?10:50
Riddellwhich we will get in dapper with any luck10:51
Riddellmae: I'm contacted (until the end of the week)10:51
=== mornfall drops in for a bit
=== mornfall contemplates playing a bit of broodwar and then passing out
Riddellmae: yes10:54
Riddellmae: broodwar?10:54
mornfallRiddell: how, until end of the week?10:54
mornfallstarcraft is a wicked game10:55
maewho wrote adept?10:55
mornfallmae: i did10:55
Riddellmornfall: well it runs out at the end of the week, I suppose I should ask what happens after that10:55
mornfallRiddell: hmm, i guess you should have it prolonged :)10:55
maewhen did you write it?10:55
=== seth_k [n=seth@asmallorange.com] has joined #kubuntu-devel
mornfallmae: august till breezy release, cca10:57
mornfallaugust and september, basically10:57
maehave you considered swiping some of synaptics icons ?10:58
maeor are you trying to keep it BSD pure10:58
mornfallmae: it's not bsd pure, given it uses libapt for now (which is gpl)10:58
mornfallmae: (and for forseeable future it will)10:58
mornfallas for icons, i am not sure they fit kde though10:58
=== KabelKasper [n=KabelKas@i5387F844.versanet.de] has joined #kubuntu-devel
=== KabelKasper [n=KabelKas@i5387F844.versanet.de] has left #kubuntu-devel ["Kopete]
maewell i meant for the columns -- like where it says 'installed'10:59
mornfallyes, and those are pretty gtkish :-)11:00
maeI like gtkish :\11:00
mornfallwhen i get around to use icons for states (not critical, color coding seems to work better anyway), you will probably be able to swap them with a theme :-)11:01
maewell it looks nice!11:02
mornfalli mean, how often you look at icons in say kmail to see if a message is new/seen/...11:02
maesynaptic is more feature-complete right now11:02
mornfallthey look to me like a decoration11:02
mornfallof course11:02
maei think it depends on the person -- i can recognize icons much faster once i get used to them.11:02
mornfallit wasn't written in 2 months, either x)11:02
maemornfall: oh -- that wasn't meant to be a negative comment -- rather I'm just critiquing11:03
maeits very good for the time you put into it so far11:03
mornfallit intends to beat everything else, eventually x)11:03
Riddellmae: if you have specific features that you miss that's useful to know11:04
mornfallmae: check http://web.ekhis.org/adept.html for the current feature plan11:04
maealready been there :)11:04
mornfallmae: anything you would add to it? :)11:04
maeit looks pretty complete11:05
maethe individual .deb install would be very nice -- but i think it should be decoupled from adept -- rather have a generic interface and the two access apt through it.11:05
mornfallmae: everything in adept is decoupled and this won't be different11:05
mornfallmae: all the generic features are in libapt-front11:06
=== mornfall practices bottom up programming
mornfallwrite a library that will make writing your program easy first :)11:06
maeis it written in C++?11:06
mornfalllibapt-front is covered with unit-tests fairly well11:07
maeis adept mostly qt4 ready?11:07
mornfalli don't think so, and the bump won't come before adept 3.011:07
maemornfall: one thing about the individual deb install11:08
mornfallsubstantial part of libept (adept's own library, mostly generic GUI elements) is concerned with intimate listview fiddling :)11:08
mornfalland listviews changed a lot in qt 411:09
maea nice feature would be when you install non-repo debs that it would automatically grab the dependencies if available in the repo11:09
Riddellqt4 would be nice for the faster list handling, but it would mean loosing KDE stuff for now11:09
mornfallRiddell: i don't think i'll go with pure-qt11:09
=== _olwin [n=olwin@dyn-83-156-94-13.ppp.tiscali.fr] has joined #kubuntu-devel
maebest idea is to bump when kde upgrades their libs?11:09
mornfallmae: for non-repo debs, well, that's given, no? :)11:10
mornfallmae: (i mean, that's the whole point of it...)11:10
maemornfall: right :)11:10
mornfallah, and if you break it, you gotta keep both pieces11:11
mornfallmae: do you know Enrico Zini?11:11
mornfallhe helped out with libapt-front, specifically debtags parts of it (given enrico wrote debtags and ported the debtags utilities over to libapt-front as we were doing it)11:12
Riddellmornfall: what's the status of debtags in debian now?  is it part of the debs?11:13
mornfallthere's one unfortunate thing with libapt-front... doxygen and older compilers all choke on it...11:13
mornfallwell, doxygen doesn't specifically choke, it just produces trash output11:14
=== verwilst ponders about creating a pkg manager for debian
mornfalland gcc 3 doesn't seem to be able to compile it either11:14
verwilstgui i mean11:14
mornfallverwilst: another one, huh? :)11:14
verwilstmornfall, well, adept seems pretty nice..11:14
verwilstbut i don't really like the gui11:15
verwilstway too complex :$11:15
mornfallwhat would you prefer?11:15
mornfallit's still lot simpler than say synaptic11:15
verwilsti like something like this better : http://www.kde-look.org/content/pre1/24793-1.jpg11:15
verwilstmornfall, well this one isn't perfect either11:15
verwilstbut it's more like it ;)11:15
mornfallverwilst: okey, that's not really a package manager11:15
verwilstyeah i know11:16
maeI think the interface is nice -- but i agree with verwilst -- I think that at least the search interface is a bit complex11:16
verwilstbut it's the idea ;)11:16
mornfallverwilst: but yeah, something like it shouldn't be hard on top of libapt-front (and libept, eventually)11:16
verwilstmornfall, that was my plan ;)11:16
maeI like the search interface of synaptic better11:16
maeand how it had the categories on the left11:16
mornfallmae: categories utterly don't scale11:17
maemaybe with searching if you don't like dialogs you could do something like FF where ctrl-f or toggles the search box at the bottom of the window11:17
maeor \/ rather11:17
verwilstmornfall, what's libept?11:17
mornfallmae: i think searching is one of the very central concepts of package management11:17
maeargh you know front slash like vi11:17
mornfallverwilst: the library between adept and libapt-front11:17
mornfallmae: yes, but right now, the absolutely most common pattern in #kubuntu seems to be "type <x> into adept"11:18
verwilstmornfall, is it qt or plain c++?11:18
maemornfall: it is.. ok forget about the categories -- you know it wasnt just categories that synaptic has on left it has sections status etc. i liked how i could just click on local or obsolete and see all my residual stuff11:18
mornfallmae: oh yeah, that will surely come11:19
mornfallmae: all with a sidebar x)11:19
maeok :)11:19
mornfallmae: (which may or may not be hidden by default, i'll contemplate :)11:19
verwilstmornfall, adept is good for power-users11:19
maemornfall: and a shortcut for focusing on the quick search box would be nice -- like ctrl-f or a front slash11:19
verwilstbut normal joe schmoe users are sooo lost :$11:19
verwilstand is there something like update-notifier in the works for kde?11:20
mornfallmae: the add filter thingy will eventually work via d&d from the sidebar or something like that... the "easy tag filter" will eventually go away and be replaced by a smart search tab in the sidebar11:20
mornfallmae: anyway, this is for long thinking and i am not in that state right now :)11:21
mornfalli am glad i managed to make this galois field code work as it was intended to and all :)11:22
Riddellmae: that's moodin engine, which we'll probably use in dapper11:22
Riddellverwilst: rather11:22
mornfallmoodin huh?11:22
Riddellksplash engine11:23
mornfalleverything is "moodin" these days eh?11:23
verwilstRiddell, http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1696211:23
mornfallwasn't a new amarok thingy called like that?11:23
maeI just wish kde wasn't so damn flashy11:23
verwilstRiddell, lots of rubberband speedups lately ;)11:23
verwilstRiddell, yeah, mooding rocks :$11:23
verwilstmoodin :p11:23
Riddellverwilst: that hasn't been updated since Nov 0411:24
verwilstit's the 13th :p11:24
verwilststupid me :p11:24
=== mornfall smacks bug lobbyists on kde-look
verwilstnm then :p11:24
verwilstrubberband still is a bit slow11:24
maeI want my gecko engine for konq!11:25
mornfalli consider the rubberband patch too intrusive to be applied externally11:25
mornfalleww gecko, as if konq wasn't slow enough already11:25
mornfallwhatever =)11:25
maeat least it doesn't choke on some sites11:26
mornfalllet me have my broodwar11:26
mornfalli let you have your gecko or whatever lizards you want11:26
maeno one cares about technical purity if the damn thing doesnt work11:26
maeok -- i need to install that on my puter again11:26
maei'll have to play you sometime11:26
mornfallhehe :)11:26
mornfalli'll be hanging around11:26
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A60EBD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #kubuntu-devel []
mornfallpvpgn works with broodwar+wine these days11:27
mornfall(pvpgn the unofficial battle.net)11:27
maethat rocks11:27
maei just wish i still had my bw11:27
maei lost my cds11:27
mornfalli have tarball x)11:27
maei am absolutely addicted to yakuake11:27
maemornfall: send it!11:28
maei will roxor you with my hydralisks11:28
mornfallcarriers own11:29
maesince what patch11:29
mornfallno idea :)11:29
mornfalli guess since always :)11:29
maeyou play with your carriers11:29
maei'll roxor them with hydras11:29
mornfallhydras cannot fly over water x)11:30
maedoesnt matter11:30
maethey will waste your carriers11:30
mornfalland well, dark templars + reavers own too x)11:30
maeand then it takes you a long time to build them again11:30
maeyou kill my hydras and i can amasse another army in less than a min11:30
mornfallbut then, i haven't played against humans in ages11:31
mornfallgood hunter killers cannot be created x)11:32
=== mornfall playing campaign agaist dumb computer
mornfallbut then, i was never en-masse player, in any game11:33
=== jjesse [i=user@69-87-140-42.async.iserv.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
mornfallwell, apart from masses of interceptors ;-)11:33
jjesseping Riddell11:34
Riddelljjesse: yo11:35
=== jjesse [i=user@69-87-140-42.async.iserv.net] has joined #kubuntu-devel
Riddelljjesse: yo11:40
jjesseRiddell: kubuntu docs should they be published on help.ubuntu.com?11:40
Riddelljjesse: sure11:41
jjesseRiddell: can we then get the links on kubuntu.org/documentation.php linked to help.ubuntu.com?11:44
jjesseand the corresponding documentation?11:44
Riddelljjesse: yep11:45
jjesseRiddell: awesome thanks :)11:45
Riddellbut I need to fix the stylesheets first presumably11:45
jjesseRiddell: yes you still do 11:45
Riddellunfortunatly kde 3.5 got in the way of that so far11:47
jjesseRiddell: no worries on that11:48
jjesseRiddell: i'll just keeping bugging you like you asked me to do11:48
Riddellyes, do11:49
maewhat package do i need to enable vector graphics in kde11:56
Riddellmae: how do you mean?11:57
maenone of these vector themes work11:57
maethat are included in kubuntu11:57
Riddellvector themes?11:58
mae"SphereCrystal" "Vector Them" shows up blank icons for me11:58
Riddellnever heard of them11:58
maeo you know what11:59
maeI think its showing the gnome icons in here11:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!