[01:08] <OgMaciel> Hi, I noticed my karma keeps getting lower the more I translate...  is this something unusual or am I missing something?
[01:11] <neuralis> can i register a UI nitpick with someone?
[01:11] <Burgundavia> neuralis, file a bug
[01:11] <neuralis> Burgundavia, aye.
[03:02] <SteveA> hi.
[03:05] <lifeless> yes
[03:05] <lifeless> would a new zope snapshot pickup the testing work jim did 
[03:05] <lifeless> ?
[03:06] <SteveA> yes.  getting a new zope in there is one of the things i want to do this week
[03:07] <lifeless> point me at a tarball or svn, I'll drop that in.
[03:08] <SteveA> it isn't that simple
[03:08] <SteveA> i need to update various code to make it work with the latest zope
[03:08] <SteveA> stu already did some preliminaries, and it looks like it isn't too much needing change
[03:20] <lifeless> ok
[03:20] <lifeless> well, if you want me to do the bzr mechanics of dropping it in, let me know
[03:21] <jamesh> hi SteveA, lifeless 
[03:21] <lifeless> I'm keen to get it in, so some of the test ui stuff I have on my plate can be done without conflicting with upstream massively
[03:21] <lifeless> hi jamesh, how are you ?
[03:21] <lifeless> and spiv!
[03:21] <jamesh> lifeless: tired.
[03:22] <lifeless> jamesh: :)
[03:22] <spiv> lifeless: Hello!
[03:22] <SteveA> hi jamesh 
[03:22] <SteveA> hello spiv 
[03:24] <spiv> I slept very, very soundly last night.
[03:24] <SteveA> lifeless: i'm going to aim to go for zope 3.1
[03:24] <spiv> Nearly missed a dentist appointment today because of it :)
[03:24] <lifeless> spiv: slacker! I started work at 3.30 :)
[03:25] <SteveA> lifeless: let me know if you need something more recent
[03:26] <lifeless> SteveA: I need 39690 or thereabouts I think
[03:26] <lifeless> the new testrunner won't -quite- drop into 3.0. It runs tests in a different order, due to the layer optimisations
[03:27] <SteveA> what about 3.1 ?
[03:27] <spiv> lifeless: So business as usual for you, then? ;)
[03:27] <SteveA> i guess there's a svn command to see if revision 39690 is in the 3.1 release branch
[03:28] <lifeless> spp;)
[03:28] <lifeless> spiv: ;)
[03:32] <jamesh> SteveA: "svn log" on the file in question on the branch, and see if the file copy occurs before or after that revision
[03:32] <jamesh> (that doesn't tell you whether the change had been merged after the branch though)
[04:30] <lifeless> just updated pqm
[04:30] <lifeless> if anyone has something to merge, please do so :)
[09:21] <sivang> Good morning
[09:25] <viyyer> Whom should I contact for discussing about Rosetta  licensing issues?
[09:31] <sivang> viyyer: licensing issues? what sort of licensing issues are you trying to solve?
[09:32] <viyyer> sivang:  was just curious if rosetta can be open sourced
[09:35] <viyyer> sivang:  There is a bunch of project getting mushroomed around the same space. 
[09:42] <viyyer> I think a stuff like rosetta is worth putting in it's place.. and worked upon
[09:43] <sivang> viyyer: AFAICT rosetta is still yet to be open sourced. I think the team wants it to be more mature and in shape before they will actually release it for general use. At moment, I feel it's best as it is :)
[09:44] <viyyer> sivang:  I think it's better of released.. for I don't want too many clones trying to do the same thing
[09:47] <viyyer> sivang:  actually.. I am talking on behalf of indlinux project
[09:50] <viyyer> there is a growing need for a web interface for translation. there has already been one attempt at the same. entrans 
[09:57] <sivang> viyyer: ok, then why not using rosetta + launchpad to register your project , manage translations and use the multitude of services offered by it?
[10:40] <viyyer> sivang:  can you explain how indlinux can register and manage translations using launchpad + rosetta ?
[10:43] <sivang> viyyer: I can give you a contact :) The person you are looking for is jordi, irc nick jordi. He can help you and walk you through IIRC.
[10:52] <carlos> morning
[10:53] <sivang> hey carlos , maybe you can help viyyer ?
[10:54] <sivang> just so I won't miss that turn over, are we using launchpad's building infra already?
[10:56] <carlos> viyyer, hi, what's the problem?
[10:58] <viyyer> carlos: I was querying sivang about the possibility of opensourcing rosetta. 
[10:59] <viyyer> I am talking with the case of indlinux . where there are attempt to write a translation management + something something portal.
[10:59] <carlos> viyyer, the answer is... it will be done
[10:59] <carlos> but don't know the dates
[11:00] <carlos> viyyer, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ question #1
[11:01] <viyyer> carlos:  there is already been a few attempts with entrans (entrans.sf.net) . before more effort is put into it. I would like things be kept simple
[11:02] <carlos> hmm
[11:03] <carlos> viyyer, there are other free/open software projects like pootle
[11:03] <carlos> viyyer, if Rosetta does not fits the requirements
[11:03] <viyyer> carlos:  because indlinux is looking for translation management + other things.
[11:03] <carlos> I think they should reuse the other projects instead of creating another one....
[11:04] <carlos> viyyer, I think you should talk with SteveA or sabdfl about opensourcing Rosetta 
[11:04] <carlos> at least they can help there more than I can
[11:04] <viyyer> that's why, looking at rosetta. it would help doing things better off. 
[11:05] <karunakar> carlos: hi
[11:05] <viyyer> karunakar is with indlinux 
[11:05] <karunakar> carlos: we are looking for online methods more for review work than for actual translation.
[11:06] <carlos> karunakar, we are working on those features for Rosetta now
[11:07] <carlos> karunakar, would that be enough for you?
[11:07] <GNULinuxer> carlos: the present FOSS tools like pootle don't really scale
[11:07] <carlos> karunakar, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/translation-reviews
[11:08] <GNULinuxer> carlos: for example, pootle doesn't use a RDBMS backend
[11:08] <carlos> GNULinuxer, I'm not saying that pootle is the best tool ;-)
[11:08] <karunakar> carlos: actually no, becoz the bigger challenge is to build some intelligence into the rough/auto translation stuff.
[11:08] <carlos> just trying to reduce the amount of code duplication
[11:08] <carlos> GNULinuxer, I know, they use directly .po files
[11:08] <GNULinuxer> carlos: yep
[11:08] <karunakar> GNULinuxer: pootle is aimed to be simple, with minimum requirements, best used for quick translation sessions involving many people.
[11:09] <karunakar> more like if you can have Kbabel there, use pootle!
[11:09] <GNULinuxer> karunakar: i agree ... what i mean is that no current FOSS tool meets our requirements
[11:09] <karunakar> s/can/can't
[11:10] <karunakar> GNULinuxer: kbabel does, except that prerequisites for it become heavy for some translators (having a running kde desktop)
[11:10] <carlos> karunakar, if you give us more details, we would try to implement it for Rosetta
[11:11] <karunakar> carlos: will have to check with entrans folks there we doing something on these lines.
[11:12] <carlos> karunakar, if you want, a spec like the others we have for Rosetta would be a good idea
[11:13] <viyyer> carlos:  spec as in ?
[11:14] <carlos> viyyer, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+specs
[11:16] <karunakar> carlos: a bit old but - http://www.indlinux.org/wiki/index.php/TranslationDatabase
[11:18] <karunakar> carlos: one Q though, rosetta only serving as online interface for translations or also does integration into mainstream - ie a PO translated in rosetta goes straight into gnome cvs?
[11:18] <sivang> carlos: interesting, I look at the FAQ, what parts of launchpad have already been open sourced?
[11:26] <GNULinuxer> siretart: where is the FAQ?
[11:28] <viyyer> GNULinuxer: this one -->   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ 
[11:28] <GNULinuxer> viyyer: yeah, thanks
[11:31] <carlos> karunakar, no, we don't commit anything into GNOME's CVS, we need the permission of the translators for that
[11:32] <carlos> karunakar, what we plan to do is to provide a bazaar branch with all translations so the maintainers can get them easily
[11:33] <karunakar> carlos: ok.
[11:33] <carlos> sivang, many changes to sqlobject and other infrastructure libraries
[11:33] <carlos> sivang, and I have pending to release python gettext's bindings
[11:33] <GNULinuxer> carlos: at the moment, are the PO files imported to Rosetta manually?
[11:35] <carlos> GNULinuxer, Ubuntu's translations are imported automatically
[11:35] <carlos> GNULinuxer, upstream translations manually
[11:35] <GNULinuxer> carlos: hmm, from baz ? [ubuntu translations] 
[11:36] <carlos> GNULinuxer, no, not yet
[11:36] <GNULinuxer> carlos: how are ubuntu translations pulled automatically?
[11:36] <carlos> GNULinuxer, the bazaar imports will be done at some point, but not done yet
[11:36] <karunakar> carlos: so say gnome 2.14 is manual? so the team admin needs to sync with the POTs regularly?
[11:36] <carlos> GNULinuxer, the build daemons extract the translations and then we import them into Rosetta
[11:37] <GNULinuxer> carlos: i see
[11:37] <carlos> karunakar, yes
[11:37] <carlos> karunakar, the idea is to develop an automatic procedure for GNOME and KDE too
[11:37] <karunakar> carlos: if i understand the automatic thing is not happening for upstream becoz of the policies/frameworks of different projects (gnome/kde/ooo)
[11:38] <carlos> karunakar, the import into Rosetta is not done automatically just because we hadn't time to implement it yet
[11:39] <karunakar> carlos: that implies policy changes at gnome/kde? or just like its, there you use it or not.
[11:39] <carlos> karunakar, no changes needed
[11:39] <carlos> karunakar, we will lock those upstream translations
[11:39] <carlos> so only the official translation teams are able to translate those products
[11:40] <carlos> we will provide the tool, the translation teams will decide to use ir (or not)
[11:40] <carlos> so if you want to use it, you will need to join that team officially
[11:40] <dholbach> hi
[11:41] <dholbach> how can i merge dholbach and danielholbach if 'danielholbach' has no preferred email set? :)
[11:42] <karunakar> carlos: ok, i guess ur the one maintaining l10n-status.gnome.org ?
[11:42] <GNULinuxer> dholbach: /msg nickserv help link
[11:42] <carlos> dholbach, setting it ? :-P
[11:42] <dholbach> GNULinuxer: i doubt that nickserv can help me with launchpad, but thanks anyway :)
[11:42] <carlos> karunakar, yes, I am.
[11:43] <GNULinuxer> dholbach: lol!
[11:43] <dholbach> carlos: the login dialog tells me to write the "e-mail address" :)
[11:43] <karunakar> carlos: so typically they will take into account translation freezes etc
[11:44] <dholbach> carlos: and it seems that my actual account "dholbach" has all the mail adresses set
[11:45] <karunakar> carlos: ok, nyways i am gnome hindi coordinator
[11:46] <karunakar> carlos: just created https://launchpad.net/people/gnome-hindi - to test it out.
[11:46] <carlos> karunakar, well... I don't know exactly what are you thinking on but we will import from cvs, so we don't need to care about handling that... GNOME project itself wil do it
[11:47] <carlos> karunakar, cool, but we don't have yet all products imported...
[11:47] <karunakar> carlos: so commiting to cvs is still upto the respective gnome l10n team.
[11:49] <carlos> dholbach, sorry but I'm not able to see how to fix your problem, you will need to wait for salgado...
[11:49] <dholbach> ok thanks, will do that
[11:49] <karunakar> carlos: also for a single language does work get reused across different groups - say gnome-hindi, ubuntu-hi-l10n , & nyother group created by someone else.
[11:50] <carlos> karunakar, right
[11:50] <carlos> karunakar, yes, your work will be reused
[11:50] <carlos> karunakar, now, will appear as suggestions
[11:51] <karunakar> carlos: but the Q being if the diff groups doing work differently?
[11:51] <karunakar> carlos: ok
[11:51] <carlos> karunakar, but I'm working now on a way to improve the share of translations
[11:51] <carlos> karunakar, all teams use their own set of templates
[11:52] <carlos> so you can share and at the same time have different translations
[11:52] <carlos> if that's your question
[12:00] <karunakar> carlos: yes
[12:31] <sivang> carlos: oh cool, you mean having python binding to use gettext in python programs?
[12:31] <carlos> sivang, to use the gettext's po parser
[12:31] <carlos> yes
[12:33] <sivang> carlos: somehow I was sure these already existed, as there are python binding for all sorts of existing GNU tools
[12:34] <carlos> sivang, that's why I said gettext' po parser and not gettext's functions
[12:34] <karunakar> carlos: doesnt translate toolkit have some api for it?
[12:34] <sivang> carlos: ah, k
[12:34] <carlos> karunakar, I'm not aware of that
[12:35] <carlos> do they?
[12:37] <karunakar> carlos: i mean the have these tools to manipulate PO files, work with OO & Mozilla translation frameworks.
[12:37] <karunakar> pootle also uses it.
[12:38] <carlos> karunakar, yeah, I know about that part, we are using them to handle OO.org2 translations
[12:38] <carlos> and we are preparing firefox support too
[12:41] <karunakar> though not sure if its exactly as usable api , but there are scripts for all.
[12:43] <carlos> karunakar, it's not exactly the same thing we are talking about
[12:43] <carlos> but thanks
[12:44] <karunakar> carlos: i think much of it is written from scratch (handling a PO file etc), a good extension for gettext tools
[12:45] <carlos> karunakar, yeah I saw those tools
[01:07] <cprov> morning hackers
[01:13] <sivang> hey cprov 
[01:13] <sivang> has anyone seen mbp ?
[01:16] <carlos> Kinnison, did you see my branch?
[01:26] <dholbach> mr. salgado, how are you? :)
[01:26] <salgado> yo dholbach. not too bad, and you?
[01:27] <dholbach> i'm fine.. thanks
[01:30] <Kinnison> carlos: I started to look and then ran out of time
[01:30] <Kinnison> carlos: and this w/e has been mostly spent sleeping
[01:30] <Kinnison> carlos: I'll look at it in a bit
[01:30] <carlos> ok
[01:31] <carlos> thanks
[03:04] <Kinnison> carlos: You've attached the upload stuff to completely the wrong publishing class
[03:04] <Kinnison> carlos: in particular you attached it to a binary package class for a view which agglomorates stuff for publishing
[03:04] <Kinnison> carlos: would it not have been far more sensible to attach it to a sourcepackagerelease, or if you need the context, a sourcepackagepublishing ?
[03:05] <Kinnison> carlos: also, you've not attached the code to the queue.py function
[03:16] <carlos> Kinnison, dude, I told you the class I was thinking on attach it.... anyway, I'm not yet using it so it's really easy to move it around
[03:16] <carlos> Kinnison, I only need the sourcepackagename + distrorelease
[03:17] <carlos> if sourcepackagepublishing gives me that information, I will move it there
[03:17] <Kinnison> aye, use sourcepackagepublishing
[03:17] <Kinnison> It was just really really odd that you put it on a publishing view which was utterly unrelated to what you wanted
[03:17] <carlos> Kinnison, about queue.py ... I will add the call now.
[03:18] <carlos> Kinnison, well, It's quite hard to understand all soyuz classes and that was the best one I was able to find. I suppose I missed the source one...
[03:19] <carlos> Kinnison, what ever you prefer
[03:19] <carlos> ok
[03:19] <Kinnison> that way you don't have to muck about finding publishing records in your queue.py function
[03:20] <carlos> Kinnison, I suppose that I will know the distrorelease from the queue.py function, right?
[03:20] <Kinnison> carlos: self.distroreleasequeue.distrorelease
[03:20] <carlos> cool, thanks
[03:20] <Kinnison> carlos: the spr is harder to find
[03:21] <Kinnison> carlos: currently you'll need to work hard to find it
[03:21] <carlos> I don't need a spr
[03:21] <Kinnison> you don't?
[03:22] <carlos> no if I have the sourcepackagename and the distrorelease
[03:22] <Kinnison> well you don't have spn yet
[03:22] <carlos> but I will know that from the buildd, right?
[03:22] <carlos> it should know the sourcepackagename it's building...
[03:22] <Kinnison> hah, the queue doesn't directly link it
[03:22] <dholbach> stub: i was told that you had database supah powahs and you could maybe help me with merging two accounts of mine ('danielholbach' is the old one (without mail adresses), and i'd like to keep 'dholbach')
[03:24] <Kinnison> carlos: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filehNmASv.html
[03:25] <Kinnison> carlos: the code in that is pseudocode and untested
[03:25] <Kinnison> carlos: but it shoudl be fine
[03:26] <bradb> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/avifile/+bug/4231 # /me gasps
[03:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4231: avifile: merge new debian version Fix req. for: avifile (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4231
[03:26] <carlos> Kinnison, ok, thanks. I will try it.
[03:27] <carlos> Kinnison, with the test I will include those changes
[03:27] <carlos> I mean, when I add the missing tests...
[03:28] <Nafallo> bradb: we did to ;-)
[03:28] <bradb> Nafallo: was siretart testing a script? he doesn't appear to be around atm.
[03:29] <bradb> I asked over the weekend in #ubuntu-motu, and that was their best guess
[03:30] <Nafallo> he fixed a bug in our lpbugs.py script, but we have no clue what happened. he said he only had two outgoing mails in his logs.
[03:31] <jamesh> bradb: looks like staging has pretty much all the resolved bugs from b.u.c now
[03:31] <jamesh> including marking stuff as duplicate where appropriate
[03:32] <siretart> bradb: I'm here now
[03:32] <bradb> jamesh: cool. I'll take a look.
[03:32] <siretart> bradb: I'm not sure what the problem actually was
[03:32] <bradb> siretart: Hi.
[03:32] <siretart> bradb: my/our script is just generating an email
[03:32] <siretart> bradb: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/motu-tools/lpbugs.py this is our script
[03:33] <BjornT> hmm, siretart, bradb: it could be due to a bug in the exception handler of the email handler... (bug 4396)
[03:33] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[03:33] <siretart>  Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.
[03:34] <siretart> :)
[03:34] <siretart> due to problems to my local configuration, I think that this mail was sent twice
[03:34] <sivang> bradb: man, so many duplicates :)
[03:34] <jamesh> bradb: here's an imported bug with a few dupes: https://staging.ubuntu.com/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.12/+bug/12963
[03:35] <siretart> I'm not sure if it was sent with the same Message-Id, but I don't think so
[03:36] <bradb> BjornT: Why would that cause multiple bugs to be filed?
[03:39] <BjornT> bradb: the transaction gets commited after each mail is processed, and the mail is deleted. but with pop3 the mail gets deleted only when you succesfully close the connection, which didn't happen since an exception was raised in the exception handler
[03:40] <jamesh> BjornT: there's a gap in between each bug number, indicating that some transactions got aborted
[03:40] <bradb> BjornT: Does that mean that every time a new incoming mail was processed, it tried to reprocess the avifile mail/
[03:40] <jamesh>  bug  |             rfc822msgid
[03:41] <jamesh> ------+-------------------------------------
[03:41] <jamesh>  4231 | <20051112121109.GA23036@tauware.de>
[03:41] <jamesh>  4231 | <E1Eatlv-0001rP-L5@localhost>
[03:41] <jamesh>  4233 | <E1Eatlv-0001rP-L5@localhost>
[03:41] <jamesh>  4235 | <E1Eatlv-0001rP-L5@localhost>
[03:41] <jamesh>  4237 | <E1Eatlv-0001rP-L5@localhost>
[03:41] <jamesh>  4239 | <E1Eatlv-0001rP-L5@localhost>
[03:41] <jamesh> duplicate message IDs ...
[03:42] <bradb> jamesh: comment importing working too, wow
[03:42] <siretart> but how was this bug triggered?
[03:43] <jamesh> bradb: that's been working since before ubz
[03:43] <bradb> jamesh: just not turned on?
[03:43] <BjornT> bradb: every time the cron script was run, it reprocessed the avifile mail (at least i would guess so, i'll have to check with stub)
[03:43] <jamesh> people, comments, attachments, etc
[03:43] <bradb> BjornT: right
[03:43] <jamesh> bradb: it was turned on beforehand too
[03:44] <Znarl> This was fixed by remvoing siretart's email from the imap queue.  I saved a copy of the email if anyone needs a copy to investigate.
[03:44] <bradb> BjornT will probably be interested :)
[03:44] <BjornT> Znarl: can you please send it to me? (bjorn at canonical.com)
[03:45] <Znarl> BjornT : Yep, will send now.
[03:45] <BjornT> cool, thanks
[03:45] <bradb> Znarl: thanks for helping prevent the problem from getting worse :)
[03:46] <Kinnison> SteveA: I'm about to write a bunch of ftpmaster related tools for launchpad
[03:46] <Kinnison> SteveA: Can I put them in a subdir of scripts/ ?
[03:47] <Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Malone bug #4232: Bug does not exist
[03:50] <Znarl> bradb : Np, glad to help.
[03:52] <Znarl> BjornT : Sent.
[03:52] <jamesh> BjornT: if a transaction fails, the sequence number still gets consumed
[03:52] <bradb> BjornT: maybe they do but, for whatever reason, don't have tasks attached to them
[03:53] <jamesh> so if you create bug 42 in a transaction but then abort, the next bug created will be 43
[03:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #42: Bug description listed in task is not the correct description Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/42
[03:53] <jamesh> and there would never be a 42
[03:53] <BjornT> jamesh: ah, that explains it
[03:54] <sivang> jamesh: why isn't the seq number decremented as part of the transaction rollback
[03:54] <sivang> jamesh: ?
[03:54] <jamesh> sivang: you can't easily do that without locking the entire table
[03:55] <jamesh> sivang: imagine running two concurrent transactions that create rows in the bug table
[03:55] <jamesh> sivang: say the first gets allocated sequence number 42, and the other 43
[03:55] <jamesh> sivang: if the first transaction aborts and the second succeeds, what should you do?
[03:56] <sivang> jamesh: err, right
[03:57] <sivang> jamesh: any solution I can think of will require other locking the entire table, or worse mirroing the table, domino decrementing all the effected transactions, and when reaching consistency copying it back onto the original table. bad :)
[03:58] <jamesh> sivang: you can't decrement seq id used by the other transactions -- the database doesn't know what the transaction has done with the ID
[03:58] <jamesh> sivang: you'd need to fail all the transactions that follow it, which is undesirable :)
[03:59] <sivang> jamesh: and we didn't even start to discuss what should happen with transaction occuring while the big rollback runs :) bah
[04:05] <BjornT> jamesh: if i get a ProgrammingError, do you know if i'd have to reconnect to the db, or if starting a new transaction is enough?
[04:11] <jamesh> BjornT: aborting the transaction should be enough
[04:12] <jamesh> the database error just fails the transaction, so you need to start a new one
[04:13] <SteveA> Kinnison: what is ftpmaster?
[04:14] <Kinnison> SteveA: tasks elmo might perform
[04:14] <Kinnison> SteveA: E.g. NEW
[04:14] <Kinnison> SteveA: these scripts should go away as the functionality makes its way into the UI
[04:14] <Kinnison> SteveA: but we'll need them for ubuntu/on/launchpad for now
[04:14] <SteveA> do the scripts need to directly touch the database?
[04:15] <SteveA> Kinnison: without us discussing them in detail now, i say put them in /scripts/whatever/ and ask jamesh or spiv for a code review later.
[04:18] <Kinnison> SteveA: sorry, got workraved by stealth (it's supposed to be disabled)
[04:18] <Kinnison> they use getUtility() to visualise and manipulate bits of the db
[04:18] <Kinnison> SteveA: while connected as the queuedaemon user
[04:21] <SteveA> the general pattern of code is that in /scripts/... we have stuff to do with running a script, command / environment options, locking, making a database connection etc.
[04:22] <SteveA> in /canonical/launchpad/scripts/... we have stuff that can be reused as library code that does the work that particular scripts need
[04:22] <Kinnison> For the most part, these scripts will be very very simple
[04:22] <SteveA> in /canonical/launchpad/database/... we have the actual database-related code; the object-database parts
[04:23] <SteveA> so, for a very simple script that you don't expect parts to be reused
[04:23] <SteveA> you can put the whole thing in /scripts/...
[04:23] <Kinnison> cool
[04:23] <SteveA> there should never be any SQL code or direct database code in there, of course
[04:23] <Kinnison> indeed not
[04:40] <SteveA> Kinnison: I added the item you told me about to the 'proposed items' part of that page
[04:47] <mpt> Goooooooooooood morning
[04:51] <jbailey> bradb: Around?
[04:52] <bradb> jbailey: hi, i'm around
[04:53] <jbailey> bradb: Something I didn't think of before when we were chatting, but in the meantime while Malone is still sending me email, is there anything I can usefully filter on in evo to get it all sent away to a folder?
[04:53] <jbailey> bradb: The best I can come up with is the subject of "[Bug" which seems like it might have a high false-positive rate.
[04:53] <bradb> jbailey: The Reply-To address
[04:53] <jamesh> jbailey: X-Generated-By: Launchpad (canonical.com)
[04:53] <bradb> I'm writing the header support right now.
[04:54] <jamesh> that'll get all Launchpad mail though/.
[04:56] <bradb> jbailey: Apparently being able to easily reply directly to the person who made a change is so important that the other 98% of us must suffer not having any immediately obvious way to identify a Malone bugmail. (Personally, I've never created a mail rule based on the Reply-To address, but it's more or less The Right Way for the moment in Malone.)
[04:57] <jbailey> *g*
[05:03] <jbailey> Yup, tagging on the reply-to is a bit annoying with the evolution UI, but it seems to work.
[05:17] <mpt> jordi, ping
[05:21] <jordi> pong
[05:21] <jordi> my link is very weak
[05:23] <mpt> jordi, did you reply to Elkin Botero who wanted to translate apt?
[05:31] <carlos> Kinnison, hmmm, dude I think we are not working with the same code....
[05:32] <carlos> Kinnison, the ISourcePackageRelease class has a self.sourcepackagename so I don't need what you told me
[05:37] <carlos> Kinnison, and the distrorelease... I suppose I could take self.uploaddistrorelease
[05:58] <jordi> mpt: no, it was unclear what to do when random dude asks about importing stuff unofficially
[05:58] <jordi> I still ave my concerns about debian stuff+
[06:09] <bradb> Does the transaction get rolled back after every xx- doctest?
[06:24] <carlos> Kinnison, never mind, I'm still a bit tired...
[06:26] <SteveA> bradb: yes, should do.  if you find otherwise, it is a bug.  if it isn't in the hacking FAQ then it should be.
[06:29] <bradb> ok
[06:29] <SteveA> thanks!
[06:33] <bradb> I've documented as though it's working as intended. If I find otherwise, I'll report a bug.
[06:36] <mpt> jamesh, any progress on bug 1644?
[06:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #1644: My calendar should be at /people/me/+calendar Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: James Henstridge, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1644
[06:37] <mpt> ooh, nice boldness you got going there Ubugtu 
[07:02] <SteveA> mpt: it's interesting.  seems to me to be inverted though -- the repeated information is emboldened, the changing not.
[07:03] <mpt> SteveA, yes, the same thing occurs in Launchpad pages themselves :-)
[07:03] <mpt> and in specs on the Launchpad/Ubuntu wikis
[07:18] <lifeless> morning
[07:49] <mpt> jordi, will you be able to attend the meeting on Thursday?
[07:51] <salgado> SteveA, ping
[08:29] <salgado> Kinnison, around?
[08:46] <jblack> What time is the next meeting? 
[08:57] <BjornT> any reviewer available for a small review?
[08:57] <BjornT> jblack: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MeetingAgenda
[08:58] <jblack> Ahh, thank you
[09:03] <lifeless> BjornT: how small ?
[09:04] <lifeless> I'm waiting for chinstrap at the moment ...
[09:06] <BjornT> lifeless: the diff is < 500 lines
[09:06] <lifeless> sure
[09:06] <lifeless> is it on pending reviews ?
[09:06] <BjornT> thanks, i'll mail you the diff
[09:06] <lifeless> ok
[09:06] <SteveA> hi salgado 
[09:07] <salgado> SteveA, do you remember an email I sent you with instructions on how to see the extra count(*) queries that are issued when using tal:repeat on a SelectResults?
[09:10] <BjornT> lifeless: sent
[09:12] <SteveA> salgado: yes
[09:12] <SteveA> salgado: i'll add it to my 'this week' list
[09:14] <salgado> SteveA, great. thanks
[09:15] <salgado> SteveA, I have another question... I'd like to have an adapter that adapts two different interfaces to a third one. is it possible to do this?
[09:17] <salgado> (i.e. I have a sourcepackagerelease and a distrorelease and want to adapt them to a distroreleasesourcepackagerelease)
[09:19] <SteveA> salgado: why do you want to use an adapter?
[09:19] <SteveA> could this be a method on distrorelease, for example?
[09:22] <jordi> mpi think I'll be around, in office but i can pretend I'm working and assist
[09:22] <jordi> mpt ^
[09:23] <salgado> SteveA, I guess a method on distrorelease will be fine. 
[09:23] <salgado> SteveA, I thought about an adapter when I see this code: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file9ztAzC.html
[09:23] <SteveA> salgado: great.  i think that is simpler.
[09:24] <salgado> I wanted to change it so it doesn't have to iterate over all results in database code
[09:24] <SteveA> so, an adapter is good when you want to have different ways to get the same result
[09:24] <SteveA> or when the inputs are in a different "layer of the application stack" than the outputs
[09:24] <SteveA> so, the latter reason is why we use adapters for getting views on things
[09:25] <SteveA> we adapt the database layer to the presentation layer
[09:25] <lifeless> BjornT: replied
[09:25] <SteveA> salgado: the formatting of that code could be made clearer.  maybe you can send an ad-hoc code review about it?
[09:26] <SteveA> salgado: so, you were thinking about an adapter to avoid the problem with circular imports?
[09:27] <lifeless> does anyone have something handy they are ready to commit ?
[09:28] <salgado> SteveA, both the circular import and the iteration over results. I'm not sure I can avoid the iteration, but I think it should be possible to move it to browser code as that seems to be the only place where the iteration is really necessary
[09:29] <salgado> I wanted to sort this out before I start doing something similar. that's why I came to this code
[09:32] <SteveA> i don't see a particular benefit in moving this into browser code.
[09:32] <SteveA> z
[09:34] <salgado> SteveA, for instance, if I call len(current_publishings), it'll have to fetch all results from the database and not only issue a count() query, as I would expect
[09:41] <SteveA> salgado: if there is a problem with this, then you can look at making it a cachedproperty
[09:41] <SteveA> or issuing a warning if the length is too great
[09:43] <SteveA> we may also want to consider more explicitly defining the interface to a SelectResults, so that we can have alternative implementations than the sqlobject one
[09:44] <mpt> http://www.google.com/search?q=ooo-commongui <-- I wasn't expecting that to work, but it did
[09:45] <SteveA> mpt: maybe we need a LaunchpadGoogleHacks wiki page?
[09:46] <mpt> SteveA, that's not a hack, it's just "Google's index of Launchpad is pretty comprehensive now"
[09:47] <mpt> It would be good to see a graph over time of the percentage of Launchpad page hits that are coming from search engines, though
[09:47] <SteveA> mpt: it was unexpected.  it works.  it is reasonable elegant.  it solves a problem.  looks like a hack.
[09:52] <salgado> SteveA, fair enough. I'll leave it as is for now. 
[10:08] <BjornT> lifeless: replied. did you want me to do something about the bare except now? otherwise i have something that i'm ready to commit (after i've mirrored)
[10:12] <lifeless> BjornT: yes please
[10:13] <lifeless> ah, I see your mail.
[10:13] <lifeless> commit this as is, but file a bug to address it ater
[10:13] <BjornT> cool, will do
[10:15] <lifeless> pqm is down at the moment, no need to refresh :)
[10:16] <BjornT> ok :)
[10:23] <lifeless> BjornT: can you mail me the failure please
[10:28] <BjornT> lifeless: sent. it could be something i did wrong, though... to which url should i request a merge?
[10:28] <lifeless> BjornT: I just upgraded pqm
[10:29] <jbailey> lifeless: That reminds me, you mentioned before that you might be able to setup a publicish pqm for the docteam.
[10:29] <lifeless> jbailey: sure
[10:29] <jbailey> lifeless: Is that hard to do?  I think they want on-commit snapshots, too.
[10:30] <lifeless> jbailey: the on commit stuff is currently *cough* crufty
[10:30] <lifeless> BjornT: resubmit please
[10:30] <lifeless> jbailey: but if I generalise it a little, sure.
[10:30] <BjornT> lifeless: ok, done
[10:31] <lifeless> thanks
[10:31] <jbailey> lifeless: Anything I can help with?
[10:31] <lifeless> jbailey: implement nestedTrees by reference from the bzr spec tracker :)
[10:31] <lifeless> jbailey: externally, via config-manager.
[10:31] <lifeless> jbailey: ;)
[10:32] <lifeless> BjornT: can you hang around a little ?
[10:32] <lifeless> BjornT: its nearly fixed, but I need to debug a touch.
[10:32] <BjornT> lifeless: sure, i'll probably be around for at least an hour or so
[10:33] <jbailey> lifeless: You need nested trees for on commit support?
[10:33] <lifeless> BjornT: send in another one please
[10:34] <BjornT> done
[10:34] <lifeless> jbailey: coordinating the two trees is the curfty bit
[10:34] <jbailey> In their case it would be all in a single tree.
[10:35] <lifeless> ah
[10:35] <lifeless> BjornT: it is your fault, phew.
[10:35] <lifeless> star-merge /home/warthogs/archives/bjorn/launchpad/bug-4396/ sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad
[10:35] <lifeless> should be
[10:35] <lifeless> star-merge /home/warthogs/archives/bjorn/launchpad/bug-4396/ sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel
[10:36] <lifeless> BjornT: so change your parent line in .bzr
[10:37] <BjornT> ok, sent another one now
[10:37] <lifeless> ok, that looks much happier
[10:38] <lifeless> I'm going to get breakfast
[10:38] <lifeless> I shall keep an eye on it
[10:38] <BjornT> cool