[12:06] <khermans> ogra, after readin through your suggestions -- i am still confused
[12:06] <khermans> what if all machines have different network cards?
[12:07] <ogra> you need different isos
[12:07] <khermans> ok
[12:09] <ogra> if you have spare disks in the clients, you could even follow the .zhd method and install a bootimage to disssk
[12:09] <khermans> ogra, if they already have Ubuntu Breezy  installed, cant I just login using XDCMP ?
[12:09] <ogra> nope
[12:09] <khermans> if I have the Edubuntu server setup
[12:10] <khermans> im a little confused how this all works
[12:10] <ogra> ubuntu/edubuntu ltsp doesnt use xdmcp
[12:11] <ogra> a minimal environment (kernel, Xserver and loginmanager) is loaded via netbooting and nfs mounting...
[12:11] <khermans> into memory?
[12:11] <khermans> ok
[12:11] <ogra> if you log in with the loginmanager, it establishes a ssh tunnel to the server and starts a X session for you there
[12:12] <khermans> well then, couldnt i just install the ltsp client package on the existing Ubuntu machines or no?
[12:12] <ogra> no xdmcp involved, everything encrypted
[12:12] <ogra> nope
[12:12] <khermans> heh, weird
[12:12] <khermans> ogra, is there no auto-detect network card ISO image that I can boot from then?
[12:12] <ogra> the ltsp-client package is for the chroot environment on the server from which the clients boot
[12:13] <ogra> you need to know the network card, right
[12:13] <khermans> that will enable me to use the same CD on multiple machines to boot the client environment, and then login to the server?
[12:13] <ogra> if the machines all have the same network card, yes
[12:13] <khermans> weird, you would think that the CD could detect the card
[12:14] <ogra> its a minimal CD ... 
[12:14] <khermans> i dont see what information needs to be known ahead of time, knoppix finds your module on the fly
[12:14] <khermans> i see
[12:14] <ogra> this image is built to fit in a bootrom, so it only carrys the minimal stuff
[12:14] <khermans> ogra, it just becomes difficult when you have a whole bunch of random puters trhown together for a lan
[12:15] <ogra> i know ...
[12:15] <ogra> but there is nothing else you could do...
[12:15] <khermans> would be nice to have a more maximal "atuo-detecting" boot CD-Rom
[12:16] <ogra> did you use a ltsp solution before ? 
[12:19] <ogra> actually i think installing ltsp-client on the clients could work ... but you need to disable some stuff
[12:20] <ogra> and make sure there is no other display manager installed ...
[12:22] <ogra> if you want to try this, make sure to remove gdm and remove the link /etc/rcS.d/S32ltsp-client-setup after installing the package ... but note, nobody has ever tested this
[12:23] <ogra> you'll probably have to create a lts.conf file to set the SERVER variable
[03:29] <magnon> ogra: the student control panel logo is ugly! :P
[03:31] <MMond> edubuntu comes default with gnome, eh
[03:31] <MMond> There's no . . . kedubuntu? =(
[03:31] <magnon> MMond: It does, yes, but a replacement is fairly simple
[03:31] <magnon> well, it's just a matter of installing kubuntu-desktop on top, and you're good
[03:32] <MMond> Do forgive my ignorance -- I want GNOME, and all that is offered in the KDE Edutainment Project [ http://edu.kde.org/ ]  -- do I make sense?
[03:33] <Yagisan> ah
[03:33] <Yagisan> yeah, you could do that
[03:33] <magnon> I think most of the kdeedu stuff is already installed by edubuntu
[03:33] <MMond> I will be trying Linux the first time . . . will I have to play around a bit?
[03:33] <neurogeek> Yagisan, how are you doing?
[03:33] <MMond> As to tweak things, that require strict knowledge towards certain things
[03:34] <Yagisan> neurogeek: not bad, quite sore - I've decided to "fire" my uni and pick another one, and the baby still isn't out
[03:34] <magnon> MMond: as long as your hardware is compatible, I don't think you will find installing edubuntu workstation difficult at all.
[03:35] <magnon> or ubuntu proper, for that matter
[03:35] <neurogeek> Yagisan, too bad.. 
[03:35] <Yagisan> neurogeek: which one ? :)
[03:36] <neurogeek> Yagisan, both.. :)
[03:36] <Yagisan> MMond: after installing edubuntu, use synaptic to install kdeedu
[03:36] <MMond> Oh, cool . . . just bought a junk PC to play around with this (it's not that junky though, should work with everything without many problems) - anyhow, one last question - if I was to choose Fluxbox as the window manager and I still wanted all that is offered from the KDE Edutainment Project, would ths be "doable?"
[03:37] <Yagisan> MMond: yes, it's quite doable
[03:37] <Yagisan> MMond: eg, my desktop is gnome, but I like k3b (kde's cdburning application), so that's what I use
[03:37] <MMond> Oh, I never knew it was that easy.. or doable, for that matter
[03:38] <neurogeek> MMond, you just need some libs from gnome and KDE
[03:38] <neurogeek> i use enlightenment and I can use whatever i want from both
[03:38] <Yagisan> MMond: which automatically install when you install any application that needs them (you may need an internet connection)
[03:39] <MMond> When doing it from Synaptic only though, right?
[03:39] <Yagisan> neurogeek: enlightenment was nice, but I couldn't get it to work with Japanese when I tried
[03:39] <Yagisan> MMond: Synaptic or aptitude, yes
[03:41] <Yagisan> neurogeek: my uni is getting "fired" for several reasons. I'm a DE student
[03:41] <MMond> Ah, alright. Well, I got pleasant answers here . . . and thank you indeed for them. I am off for some work, thanks again - and good night
[03:41] <Yagisan> neurogeek: hence the uni forums are supposed to be my classroom
[03:42] <Yagisan> neurogeek: I got punished for trying to use them as a classroom :( ie trying to discuss the subject
[03:43] <Yagisan> neurogeek: And the uni never answered my phone calls or emails or faxes - so time to find a new one.
[03:44] <Yagisan> brb
[03:44] <neurogeek> Yagisan, Well thats right.. you can't just wait or do whatever they like you to do.. good point and good luck
[03:49] <mhz> hi all
[03:51] <neurogeek> mhz, hey!! how are you doing??
[03:51] <mhz> neurogeek: nice to see ya
[03:51] <mhz> neurogeek: i'm fine
[03:51] <neurogeek> mhz, same here
[03:51] <neurogeek> mhz, glad to hear that
[03:51] <mhz> i just had a very long meeting that ended 3 ours ago and lasted about 4
[03:52] <neurogeek> say what?? thats exhausting.. i hope it brings good things at least
[03:52] <mhz> neurogeek: in the meeting, one of the core points was the Maracaibo event
[03:53] <mhz> Do you think we (Tecnocimiento) should make this effort to get there (I mean, spending money that could be spent on cd's or marketing edubuntu in Chile, etc.)?
[03:53] <mhz> neurogeek: ping
[03:58] <mhz> neurogeek: ping
[03:58] <mhz> neurogeek: ping
[04:00] <mhz> neurogeek: ping
[04:01] <neurogeek> mhz, sorry.. i was reading emails. jeje
[04:02] <mhz> jejeje, np
[04:02] <neurogeek> mhz, depending on what you are promoting.. 
[04:03] <mhz> it's just that this week is gonna be very hard. I am trying to motivate a very important Chilean medium company to help Tecnocimiento and work together
[04:03] <neurogeek> it could be interesnting though.. mainly because big enterprises are going to be there.. 
[04:04] <neurogeek> probably this enterprises could start something here.. they are very interested in education.. so called <<misiones>> here
[04:05] <mhz> They have biz relantionships with many (about 1000) schools here. Tecnocimiento is working (mostly volunteer work) hard to make a biz model model out of social insertion with ITC.
[04:05] <mhz> Will be able to talk (at least 30 mins each?)
[04:05] <mhz> ?
[04:06] <neurogeek> could be possible.. could you send me an email with the topic?? i'll pass it to some people here to see if they can fit you in
[04:06] <mhz> I mean, if I get funds to get there, can I tell my 'mecenas': Sure, we'll have some time to show and do Public Relations, and maybe even get interesting ideas and feedback.
[04:07] <mhz> neurogeek: I can do that
[04:08] <neurogeek> mhz, yes.. send me that email.. and i'll forward it asap to see what they can do
[04:08] <mhz> neurogeek: any 'technical data sheet' about the event I can read and sum up for my mecenas?
[04:09] <mhz> I know they'll be interested on # of atendees, speakers, objectives, etc
[04:09] <neurogeek> mhz, yeap.. here: http://tecnologialibre.org/
[04:09] <neurogeek> numbers of attendees im not sure.. but the rest is there
[04:09] <mhz> ohhh
[04:09] <mhz> okidoki
[04:10] <mhz> BTW, how's the project going?
[04:10] <neurogeek> if you check the program.. you'll still see spots to be covered.. 
[04:11] <neurogeek> Well.. its going great.. just about an hour ago i found out our speech at PyCon2006 was accepted.. so we are going to be at it next year
[04:11] <mhz> cOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
[04:12] <mhz> it feels great LA is impacting positively on IT areas. Usually, we've been more passive
[04:13] <skvidal> neurogeek: ping
[04:13] <neurogeek> yes.. is because of the OpenSource model.. it helps nacions to be more self-aware of new and better technologies
[04:13] <mhz> neurogeek: skvidal is moin user
[04:14] <mhz> neurogeek: exactly
[04:14] <neurogeek> skvidal, hello
[04:14] <skvidal> neurogeek: mhz from #moin suggested you might know something about docbook rendering problems in moin?
[04:14] <skvidal> neurogeek: I'm getting an error I'm not familiar with
[04:14] <skvidal> AttributeErrorXsltRoot instance has no attribute 'outputParams'
[04:14] <skvidal> when trying to enable the docbook format renderer in moin
[04:15] <skvidal> I'm not terribly familiar with docbook or 4Suite so I'm having a bit of trouble debugging this
[04:15] <neurogeek> skvidal, Can you do a dir() on that class?? 
[04:15] <skvidal> likely
[04:16] <neurogeek> neither do I with docbook.. i've used 4Suite for xslt-xml transformations
[04:17] <skvidal> hmm - I think I know where I should start looking
[04:17] <skvidal> thanks
[04:17] <skvidal> I'll move along from here
[04:17] <skvidal> mhz: thanks for the reference!
[04:18] <Yagisan> re
[04:18] <mhz> Yagisan: how's family and wife holding?
[04:18] <Yagisan> mhz: bub still not out
[04:19] <mhz> hehehe
[04:19] <Yagisan> mhz: yourself ?
[04:19] <mhz> tired but fine
[04:20] <neurogeek> Well, im gone.. see you guys
[04:20] <Yagisan> mhz: sorry no email yet. I've been off the pc for a few days
[04:20] <mhz> neurogeek: I am reading
[04:20] <Yagisan> neurogeek: bye
[04:20] <mhz> once i finish, I'll send you email
[04:20] <neurogeek> mhz, send me the email as soon as you can
[04:20] <neurogeek> Ok
[04:20] <mhz> do i have yours?
[04:20] <neurogeek> Yagisan, nice seeing you again
[04:20] <neurogeek> umm
[04:20] <neurogeek> sorry
[04:20] <neurogeek> jeje
[04:20] <mhz> hehehe
[04:20] <mhz> si po!
[04:20] <neurogeek> mhz, jrivero@latinux.org
[04:20] <mhz> okidoki
[04:21] <neurogeek> perfect-.. i'll be expecting it
[04:21] <mhz> educool
[04:21] <mhz> bye
[04:21] <mhz> Yagisan: I had a very important meeting today
[04:22] <Yagisan> mhz: ?
[04:22] <mhz> about education and ICT
[04:22] <mhz> tomorrow, meeting continues
[04:22] <Yagisan> mhz: sounds interesting - any leads ?
[04:22] <mhz> and if all goes well, on Wednesday, we'll know if TC gets some funds to do what we want/need in Chile
[04:23] <Yagisan> mhz: good luck for Wednesday
[04:23] <mhz> I don't wanna have expectations but I can't help it :)
[04:23] <mhz> thx
[04:24] <mhz> do you know what the sex of the baby is?
[04:24] <Yagisan> mhz: I think it may be a boy, but no we don't know. baby wouldn't hold still for the ultrasound
[04:24] <mhz> hehehehehhe
[04:25] <mhz> my daughter either
[04:25] <mhz> my daughter didn't either
[04:26] <Yagisan> mhz: typical children. Never hold still when you want them too
[04:26] <mhz> hehehe, well, Women never do what we want
[04:26] <mhz> maybe thats a hint
[04:28] <Yagisan> mhz: no they don't. It's like "What do you know, you're a man! Do it yourself"
[04:29] <Yagisan> mhz: then you go to do it yourself "What do you think you are doing ? You idiot ! Give it to me, I'll do it. Useless"
[04:29] <mhz> weeee! student control panel (a.k.a ubuntu TeacherTool) source available
[04:30] <mhz> LOL!!!!!
[04:30] <mhz> it same old story everywhere around the world????????
[04:31] <Yagisan> I believe so.
[04:32] <Yagisan> crap - my monthly I&E reports are late
[04:32] <mhz> we have no future
[04:32] <mhz> I&E?
[04:32] <Yagisan> Income and Expenditure
[04:32] <mhz> ohhhhh
[04:33] <mhz> they tell you how your money/savings go down?
[04:33] <Yagisan> yes, exactly - for 4 straight months now
[04:38] <mhz> Yagisan: I am truly sorry.
[04:38] <mhz> Yagisan: are you part of the ubuntu server team?
[04:39] <mhz> I'm sure your help/experience may be very interesting
[04:39] <Yagisan> mhz: No I'm not
[04:39] <Yagisan> mhz: I didn't know there was a server team
[04:40] <mhz> I guess there is
[04:40] <mhz> or at least, work for ubuntu servers is being done
[04:43] <Yagisan> mhz: I'll look into it when I have time.
[04:43] <mhz> ok
[04:44] <Yagisan> hmm - I lost less money this month compared to last month, but I made no sales ?!?
[04:45] <mhz> hmm, how did it go with your banks and other important referrals?
[04:45] <Yagisan> mhz: that meeting is in 15 days
[04:46] <Yagisan> ah, I know why I lost less money
[04:46] <mhz> oh
[04:46] <Yagisan> transport cost is down, as I spent more time taking wife to and from hospital, rather then seeing customers
[04:47] <mhz> oh, that explains it
[04:48] <Yagisan> now, how to put a positive spin on that, I did offload a ton of business cards there - that could be classed as advertising :)
[04:49] <Yagisan> December should be better - baby will be out by then
[04:50] <mhz> Yagisan: in Chile, we say that all babies bring some good luck with them
[04:51] <Yagisan> mhz: cool, I hope so. Last months loss was $152.83 - that's rather good considering what some months looked like
[04:52] <mhz> hehehe
[04:52] <mhz> I like your positivism
[04:53] <Yagisan> mhz: I need to be optimistic, otherwise the stress would kill me
[04:55] <mhz> how's your arm/hand?
[04:56] <Yagisan> mhz: very sore - I tried resting it over the last few days
[04:57] <mhz> 'tried'?
[04:57] <mhz> couldn't?
[04:57] <Yagisan> mhz: kids never let you rest
[04:58] <mhz> heheheh
[04:58] <mhz> neither do wives
[04:59] <Yagisan> mhz: I'm so happy I only have 1 then :)
[04:59] <mhz> hehehehe
[05:00] <mhz> so, I can say she's my wife
[05:00] <mhz> and former wife wants money all the time
[05:01] <Yagisan> mhz: I'm sure you suggested she could get a job right ?
[05:02] <mhz> hehehehehehe
[05:02] <mhz> yup, and she does have one but still wants money from me
[05:02] <mhz> why is that when marriage ends, women take the kids and sue for money
[05:03] <Yagisan> mhz: me personal opinion, I see nothing wrong with paying for kids, but to pay for someone that can work - I have a problem with that
[05:03] <mhz> mee too
[05:04] <mhz> but being sued just to give money is stupid
[05:04] <Yagisan> mhz: I hope you can see your kids (perhaps suing her for emotional distress ?)
[05:04] <mhz> a father/mother will always want the best for their kids
[05:04] <mhz> hehehe
[05:05] <mhz> i now can, but the first 2 years were unberable
[05:05] <Yagisan> mhz: I agree, but often they disagree on how to do what is best
[05:05] <mhz> yup
[05:06] <mhz> anyways, we were talkng about your money, not wives
[05:06] <mhz> :D
[05:07] <Yagisan> mhz: yep, I'm faxing my I&E into the government, in an effort to avoid seeing them and having to "discuss" why I missed my target
[05:07] <Yagisan> for the first quater
[05:09] <mhz> you got to specify 'targets'?
[05:09] <Yagisan> mhz: yes, I feel I was overly optimistic with mine - I need to revise them down a bit
[05:12] <Yagisan> back soon - off to have lunch
[05:13] <mhz> ok
[07:46] <highvoltage> coolio_za: you are quiet :)
[07:47] <JaneW> hello highvoltage and coolio_za 
[07:53] <coolio_za> hiya Jane 
[07:53] <highvoltage> JaneW: ~))))
[07:53] <highvoltage> (tidal wave)
[07:57] <highvoltage> cafepress is expensive, not because they're expensive, but because they have a built-in markup.
[07:58] <highvoltage> i was thinking of ordering through them too, but if you're going large-scale, it will be cheaper to use another company.
[08:01] <JaneW> highvoltage: yes thought so, but what about distribution?
[08:01] <JaneW> coolio_za: congrats for the award!!!
[08:02] <JaneW> highvoltage: you too obviously 
[08:02] <JaneW> and everyone else involved
[08:02] <JaneW> highvoltage: are you guys actually using edubuntu yet?
[08:02] <JaneW> highvoltage: LOL at tidal wave (now that I figured it out) ;)
[08:03] <highvoltage> JaneW: thanks
[08:03] <highvoltage> JaneW: no, we'll be starting using edubuntu about a month after the dapper release.
[08:06] <coolio_za> JaneW: thanx this was a great team effort and it feels fantastic being recognised externally on national TV
[09:13] <grace_> hey there
[09:14] <grace_> i know moodle is available in synaptic but has anyone used or actually know that its there
[09:14] <grace_> anyone here ever use moodle
[09:14] <grace_> for a course of some kind
[09:19] <JaneW> coolio_za: indeed, it's great acknowledgement and recognition for you all - well done and keep it up.
[09:19] <JaneW> highvoltage: only after Dapper, pour quoi (why)?
[09:19] <highvoltage> grace_: yep, http://learnlinux.tsf.org.za/moodle
[09:20] <highvoltage> JaneW: current edubuntu isn't quite ready for us yet, we're not ready for it either.
[09:20] <JaneW> highvoltage: fair enough
[09:20] <highvoltage> JaneW: sound and even simple local device access (such as floppy access) is important for us
[09:20] <JaneW> highvoltage: did you see we have sound sorted on LTSP now :))
[09:20] <highvoltage> edubuntu has no support for that atm.
[09:20] <JaneW> right
[09:21] <highvoltage> that's in dapper, though :)
[09:21] <JaneW> highvoltage: yes local storage is the other thing we are sorting
[09:21] <JaneW> nod
[09:21] <highvoltage> dapper will be real nice for the tuxlabs.
[09:22] <highvoltage> it will make our lices much easier on this side.
[09:22] <highvoltage> nice!
[09:22] <JaneW> you have lice?
[09:22] <highvoltage> haha
[09:22] <JaneW> ;)
[09:22] <highvoltage> lives :)
[09:23] <highvoltage> hehe. well, your side has a funny smell, especially upstairs.
[11:13] <juliux> JaneW, hi
[04:21] <mhz> hi all
[04:21] <zakame> hey mhz 
[04:21] <mhz> hi zakame 
[04:22] <highvoltage> hi there
[04:22] <mhz> yahoo highvoltage 
[04:22] <highvoltage> google mhz
[04:23] <mhz> altavista Mr. Carter
[04:24] <highvoltage> excite Mr. Hernandez
[04:25] <zakame> beagle all
[04:25] <highvoltage> indeed.
[04:25] <mhz> for me Google is the only one ruling
[04:25] <mhz> :)
[04:43] <mhz> highvoltage: any easy and quick way to know the exact number of education oriented packages on current release?
[04:44] <mhz> I found a wiki url but I guess is very outdated
[04:44] <highvoltage> mhz: not that i can think of
[04:45] <ogra> mhz, you mean the stuff edubuntu contains ? or all apps that ar available in ubuntu ?
[04:48] <mhz> ogra: hmm, the edubuntu only stuff, and hopefully, only the educational stuff that is currently on breezy and the ones that will be for dapper
[04:49] <mhz> ogra: I am preparing "training" for IT guys who may install and admin edubuntu on schools and a diff training for teachers who will use edubuntu
[04:50] <ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSwList
[04:51] <ogra> thats the desktop software
[04:51] <mhz> ogra: is it updated
[04:51] <ogra> i just created it
[04:52] <ogra> it wont change much for next release
[04:53] <mhz> hehehe, ok
[05:04] <mhz> ogra: last week I mentioned to JaneW that some teachers (esp. pitux) and I were planing to have some sort of respository for Edubuntu users. This rep. is aimed to provide excercises and educational contents for teachers/students to use with their edubuntu applications
[05:05] <ogra> fine
[05:05] <mhz> ogra: the idea, in the simplest way, is to 'package' this so you endup apt-get install math_primary_excercises.deb
[05:06] <ogra> math-primary-excercises-ch ?
[05:06] <ogra> err cl
[05:06] <mhz> yup, but in case of Sciences, I'd say they are language independant
[05:06] <mhz> (most of them)
[05:07] <mhz> but, yes
[05:07] <ogra> i think if there is some explanationary text you are lost :)
[05:07] <mhz> the idea is in a mid-future we have those in diff language
[05:07] <mhz> hehee, indeed
[05:07] <mhz> for instance, Keduca lets you use tests via http
[05:08] <mhz> I mean, they are located remotely
[05:08] <mhz> with this repo. Teachers would gain some sort of 'contribution points'
[05:08] <mhz> and we could provide some incentives
[05:09] <Katsumoto> this might be a weird question to you but, is Edubuntu also suitable for home use...to learn how to work with it? or would you recommend the regular Ubuntu distribution?
[05:09] <mhz> Katsumoto: I use it instead ubuntu in my house
[05:09] <mhz> Katsumoto: my kids love it
[05:09] <ogra> Katsumoto, it has a workstation install mode for home usage :)
[05:09] <ogra> Katsumoto, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
[05:09] <Katsumoto> ohk thank you :)
[05:10] <mhz> Katsumoto: although I installed server-mode (edubuntu potential) I rarely use it
[05:10] <mhz> but it's good when other people want to give linux a try
[05:10] <mhz> ogra: so JaneW asked to talk to you
[05:10] <Katsumoto> indeed...I want my parents+little brother to learn how to use it
[05:11] <mhz> ogra: maybe because she feels you are the one to tell how possible this is to be implemented in edubuntu
[05:11] <Katsumoto> think I'll perform this network for a while in case I have any more q's :)
[05:11] <ogra> mhz, i'm not sure we can provide a ton of content, but as long as it stays at a reasonable size thats fine
[05:12] <mhz> Katsumoto: if your 'server' is over 1GHz and 512 MB, they could even try it with their stations connected to yours
[05:12] <mhz> Katsumoto: my 'server' is a thin laptop we connect my wife's laptop with.
[05:12] <Katsumoto> ohk cool :) might be an option indeed
[05:12] <Katsumoto> though, the machine I'm on now uses x640-bit windows version
[05:13] <ogra> mhz, actually my initial idea was to have a library server providing teaching content, but mark wants to see a bigger community before even thinking about that
[05:13] <mhz> ogra: we do not need to provide it in the CD releases, just have it available for apt-getting after install
[05:13] <ogra> ...i guess
[05:13] <Katsumoto> will it work together? as in network settings and such
[05:13] <mhz> Katsumoto: rephrase that, please
[05:14] <Katsumoto> hmk, the machine I'm on now has win xp prof x64-bit running...
[05:14] <Katsumoto> so if I install edubuntu on the other pc that's connected to this one
[05:14] <Katsumoto> will it work together
[05:14] <mhz> ogra: so, can we count on with some edubuntu resources? how could we start this?
[05:14] <ogra> just package it :)
[05:14] <mhz> Katsumoto: samba should do the trivk
[05:14] <mhz> trick
[05:14] <Katsumoto> ah yes oke :)
[05:14] <ogra> provide me access to the source package and i'll inspect it ...
[05:15] <ogra> ... if its fine, i'll upload it
[05:16] <mhz> ogra: ok, but lower level questions are: how do we do it? I mean, we create bunch of exercises (example) in each application specific format. Then what?
[05:16] <Katsumoto> I might even switch to Linux fully, since I find this windows x64-bit release a bit crappy.
[05:16] <Katsumoto> lack of drivers and such
[05:16] <mhz> Katsumoto: windows will always be crappy
[05:16] <Katsumoto> true that :P
[05:16] <mhz> it's their development process that sucks
[05:17] <mhz> just find out how many times they have said "Now, this is all fixed"
[05:17] <mhz> and problems still there
[05:17] <Katsumoto> and yet bring out another critical fix, yes
[05:17] <Katsumoto> heh
[05:17] <mhz> that's my point
[05:17] <ogra> mhz, fo kvoctrain addons, i'd just call the package kvoctrain-exercises-cl :)
[05:18] <ogra> just make a data package for each app...
[05:18] <mhz> PLUS, if I use a Personal Computer (hence PC), I want it to use it for whatever I want to, I do not want to have prohibitions of any kind.
[05:18] <mhz> Palladium will kill my liberty
[05:18] <ogra> we could put a edubuntu-content package on top...
[05:18] <Katsumoto> lol, I wonder howmuch prohibitions there will be in windows vista
[05:18] <mhz> ogra: aaaah
[05:19] <mhz> ok, so all we need to start with is designing excercises and you'll take care of them?
[05:19] <mhz> .oO(it's ok but It seems TOO unfair you do all the job)
[05:20] <mhz> Katsumoto: hehehe
[05:20] <Katsumoto> :p
[05:20] <ogra> mhz, i can teach you the packaging stuff its very easy ...
[05:21] <mhz> ogra: cool and more fair
[05:21] <Katsumoto> ok, thanks for the info..I'm off to school :)
[05:21] <mhz> bye Katsumoto 
[05:22] <mhz> ogra: so, let me start with some exercises and get back to you when done so we can give it a test-try
[05:22] <mhz> dry-test?
[05:23] <ogra> heh
[05:23] <ogra> as you like :)
[05:23] <mhz> duh!
[05:23] <mhz> heheh
[05:23] <mhz> BTW, my friends stickers sucked
[05:24] <ogra> :(
[05:24] <mhz> i need to give higher resolution and use a diff ink
[05:24] <mhz> or laser printer?
[05:24] <mhz> :D
[05:25] <mhz> BTW, some teacher have asked me for simulators
[05:26] <ogra> simulators ?
[05:27] <mhz> yup
[05:28] <mhz> like children who need to know i.e. how fast could be "cell reproduction"
[05:28] <mhz> given certain parameters
[05:29] <mhz> how much area would an atomic bomb cover
[05:29] <mhz> stuff like that
[05:29] <mhz> stuff you do not want to have a lab for
[05:29] <mhz> :)
[05:29] <ogra> ah
[05:29] <mhz> or based on many schools needs, they can't afford a LAb
[05:30] <mhz> so, a computer lab could do the trick
[05:31] <mhz> ogra: also, some teachers hav asked me why so many KDE apps if default desktop is GNOME?
[05:31] <mhz> why not KDE instead
[05:32] <ogra> because its way harder for me to maintain then ...
[05:32] <ogra> feel free to develop a KDE based version
[05:33] <ogra> we dont have the amount of KDE developers in ubuntu to help along with stuff...
[05:33] <ogra> in fact we only have one ... and he's busy with building kubuntu...
[05:34] <mhz> heheheh
[05:34] <mhz> who?
[05:34] <ogra> additionally i wouldnt want to work on a kde desktop... i'm hoping for someone to join if there is real demand...
[05:34] <ogra> Riddell
[05:34] <mhz> ok
[05:34] <mhz> I may talk with KDE chilean developers 
[05:34] <mhz> (i guess they're 3 or 4)
[05:35] <ogra> they are free to derive from edubuntu and make a kedubuntu :)
[05:35] <mhz> anyways, if it were my decision, I would use a very light desktop, considering LA hardware standard in schools
[05:35] <mhz> or even, Desktop-Independant
[05:35] <ogra> but the tweakage and changes are very gnome centric... and will get even more gnome centric in the next releases
[05:36] <mhz> oh
[05:37] <ogra> local device support will work through hal/dbus/gnome-volume-manager/ltspfs (so i can guarantte it works like in ubuntu) 
[05:38] <ogra> sound support in dapper will be esound based and move to gstreamer transports in dapper+1
[05:40] <mhz> hmm, so maybe a healthier way of installing would be to install but ommit GNOME desktop installation?
[05:41] <ogra> the right way would be to make KDE talking to these apps ;)
[05:41] <ogra> thats actually what Riddell does (or tries to do ) for kubuntu
[05:41] <ogra> so you only need to maintain one set of apps below the desktop
[05:42] <mhz> how about other lighter desktops? will they talk (have they ever?) to those apps?
[05:42] <ogra> not sure what the xubuntu team plans in this direction
[05:42] <ogra> but xfce is able to talk to esound
[05:43] <ogra> and if you use gnome-volume-manager and nautilus for xfce, you will have all the automounting magic for local devices
[05:43] <mhz> hehehe, I meant real lighter
[05:43] <mhz> WMaker or FvWM or fluxbox
[05:43] <ogra> openbox
[05:43] <mhz> too
[05:44] <ogra> you would provide something like that to kids ?
[05:44] <mhz> ahahha, see what henrik has done: http://www.theopencd.org/files/moinmoin/1.3.4-2-MMDE/MMDE-install2.png
[05:44] <mhz> hmm, yes. I can commit to tweak those desktops in order to have them look esp. for kids
[05:46] <mhz> I can't fight the fact LA schools are very poor
[05:46] <mhz> .oO(well, in LA there are only opposites. So other school have LOTS of money)
[08:27] <janimo> does edubuntu not use gdm?
[08:28] <janimo> I saw a ldm which seemed to be a ltsp dm
[08:44] <mhz> janimo: GDM is used on localhost (server)
[08:44] <mhz> LDM is LTSP Display Manager
[08:44] <mhz> therefore, clients use it
[09:20] <ogra> magnon, hey 
[09:28] <ganhongsen> hi how to make ln -s /dev/ttyACM0 /dev/modem permanent so I don't have to type it everytime I login?
[09:32] <ganhongsen> hi how to make ln -s /dev/ttyACM0 /dev/modem permanent so I don't have to type it everytime I login?