[08:08] <daniels> i might be a little bit late, just heading back home now
[08:11] <JaneW> daniels: ok, as long as you are there, or send an e-mail update to me at the very least - kthxbye
[08:11] <fabbione> hey JanC 
[08:11] <fabbione> UFFF
[08:11] <fabbione> hey JaneW 
[08:13] <JaneW> hey fabbione 
[08:13] <JaneW> fabbione: I worked in a large compnay that had a Jan Weideman (e-mail autocompletion was a NIGHTMARE there) ;)
[08:15] <fabbione> amen
[08:45] <pitti> hi
[08:47] <slomo_> hi pitti
[08:59] <fabbione> GOOOOOOOOOOD MORNING VIETNAM!
[09:00] <mdz> good morning
[09:00] <mdz> let's get started
[09:00] <mdz> is everyone here?
[09:00] <JaneW> hi all
[09:00] <Keybuk> _o/
[09:00] <JaneW> ok I have opened a spreadsheet to tabulate all the comments
[09:01] <Kamion> morning
[09:01] <seb128> hi
[09:01] <dholbach> good morning
[09:01] <mdz> mvo,doko,infinity,Riddell,Mithrandir,Diziet,BenC,ogra: ping
[09:02] <infinity> pong
[09:02] <JaneW> mdz: daniels said he'll be here but a little late
[09:02] <mdz> JaneW: * daniels_mobile (n=mobil_63@midgaard.ntnu.nu) has joined #ubuntu-meeting
[09:02] <dholbach> will ring mvo
[09:02] <JaneW> oh there he is...
[09:03] <mdz> Kamion: would you chase Ian?
[09:03] <slomo_> hi everybody
[09:04] <JaneW> where's ogra?
[09:04] <dholbach> i will phone him
[09:04] <doko_> pong
[09:04] <dholbach> mvo will be here in some seconds
[09:04] <Riddell> hi
[09:04] <mdz> these meetings are going to be strictly time-limited so it is important that everyone be here on time
[09:05] <JaneW> mdz: I see desrt has a high priority goal, are we going to 'make' him attend too?
[09:05] <Keybuk> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specs
[09:05] <Keybuk> ^ that's the "goal list", right?
[09:05] <mdz> Keybuk: I wish it were
[09:05] <JaneW> this view is easier to scan through... https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable#
[09:05] <mdz> I started creating it there, but then discovered that any random launchpad user could add things to it
[09:06] <JaneW> mdz: shall we use a dreaded wiki table?
[09:06] <JaneW> mdz: or wait for your bug to be fixed
[09:06] <Kamion> mdz: will try
[09:06] <mdz> JaneW: I don't think we can wait for further spec tracker fixes
[09:06] <dholbach> ogra's on his way too
[09:06] <mdz> JaneW: I'll create a wiki page for now
[09:07] <pitti> mdz: also, it is missing some specs, like hide-admin-tools-to-users
[09:07] <mdz> pitti: hence "started"
[09:07] <JaneW> mdz: ok, I can check it against launchpad to see if it changes much
[09:07] <Kamion> no reply from Ian's phone
[09:07] <infinity> pitti : Stuff needs to be assigned a target release to show up in the table...
[09:07] <fabbione> same for Mithrandir 
[09:08] <ogra> moin
[09:08] <pitti> infinity: I see
[09:08] <mdz> fabbione: same = no reply?
[09:09] <fabbione> yeps
[09:09] <fabbione> probably he is on the way to the office
[09:09] <fabbione> and he doesn't hear the phone
[09:10] <JaneW> while the phone stuff is happening
[09:10] <mdz> ok, we can't wait longer
[09:10] <mdz> JaneW: please make a note to follow up with ian, tollef and ben
[09:10] <JaneW> what I need, is the list of goals with assignees, and then also the estimated developer days for each goal
[09:11] <mdz> yes, over the next week you need to review your assigned specs and try to estimate the amount of time that each will take
[09:11] <mdz> of course these will be rough (sometimes very rough) estimates, and that is OK
[09:11] <JaneW> there is a field for this in the spec header now. Also we need all known dependencies included. Please could you all fill this in, so I can attempt to make a gantt chart from them.
[09:11] <mdz> but it is important that we have some idea of small vs. medium vs. large
[09:12] <fabbione> hmmm there are none of my assigned specs in the +spectable#
[09:12] <JaneW> the time estimates can be amended later if you gauged it wrong the first time, it's just to help to plan better.
[09:12] <mdz> this is your chance to ensure that your workload is achievable within the release timeframe
[09:13] <mdz> so those of you who felt that your breezy goals were too much for the time allotted, this is how you can avoid the same fate for dapper
[09:13] <mdz> so get those estimates in before the next meeting
[09:13] <fabbione> mdz: i suggest that we extend this into the specs 
[09:13] <mdz> fabbione: what do you mean?
[09:14] <fabbione> to most of the drafter i did ask to add estimte implementation time directly when writing the specs
[09:14] <fabbione> exactly to have it handy from the beginning
[09:14] <daniels> mdz: daniels_mobile's battery died
[09:14] <mdz> if it's in the text of the spec, it should be propagated to launchpad
[09:14] <pitti> ack
[09:15] <mdz> a note about the format of these meetings
[09:15] <JaneW> I found last time that having to read dozen's of specs to distil the updates was impossible, which is why we need the salient info easily available
[09:15] <mdz> the idea is to have a chance for everyone to very briefly say what they have completed in the past week, will work on in the next week, and where they are blocked
[09:16] <mdz> to give us a chance to quickly resolve any blockages where we can, and arrange for further discussion where necessary
[09:16] <fabbione> mdz: i did write something already. If you want i can paste and we can start from it to see how to adapt it for this meeting
[09:16] <mdz> they will last no more than one hour
[09:16] <mdz> so we will not have a lot of discussion
[09:16] <mdz> if there is a topic which needs real discussion, we'll schedule a followup meeting with only the people who need to be there
[09:16] <JaneW> I will attemot to publish a summary table of the info afterwards
[09:16] <mdz> since these meetings invariably involve odd hours for some people, we won't hold up the entire group for discussions which aren't relevant to everyone
[09:17] <mdz> fabbione: I think the easiest thing would be to agree on a standard format so that we can paste
[09:17] <mdz> as is done in the launchpad meetings
[09:17] <mdz> however, we did not do this in advance this time, of course
[09:17] <Kamion> my notes have <launchpad-spec-name>: summary-of-progress
[09:18] <Kamion> er, minus angle brackets
[09:18] <pitti> I did it like this: specname\nProgres: ... \n Blocks: \n Plan: \n Time estimate
[09:18] <Kamion> and misc: for other stuff
[09:18] <mdz> Kamion: that's reasonable
[09:18] <fabbione> same here
[09:18] <mdz> pitti: we should keep the number of lines per person small
[09:18] <JaneW> pitti: sounds great :))
[09:18] <JaneW> heh
[09:18] <mdz> Kamion: would you start?
[09:19] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-*, ue-*: Not started; will start next week once Flight CD 1 is done.
[09:19] <Kamion> cd-build-process: jigdo improvements done, yielding the vast bulk of the wins here; elmo reckons parallelisation will be a loss with little's current hardware ("I/O bandwidth of a straw"); single-architecture rebuilds not started, but not blocked.
[09:19] <Kamion> cd-bootloader: syslinux 3 merge partly done, but blocked on finishing Flight CD 1 for general sanity reasons. gfxboot work blocked on that. CD timeout work not started.
[09:19] <Kamion> misc: insane pile of merges, lots of uninstallable-fixing, seed reorganisation, etc. Assuming I get Flight CD 1 done this week, I intend to spend next week on (a) the big apt-setup merge from Debian (fixing lots of bugs) and (b) Ubuntu Express.
[09:19] <mdz> great, that's the right level of detail
[09:20] <Keybuk> (merges: 200 dropped to 150 in the last 2 days)
[09:20] <mdz> we'll chat a bit about merges at the end of the meeting if we have time
[09:20] <mdz> fabbione: next?
[09:20] <fabbione> sure
[09:20] <fabbione> * Progress on ubuntu-server (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerCandy):
[09:20] <fabbione>   + Community involment:
[09:20] <fabbione>     - #ubuntu-server created
[09:20] <fabbione>     - waiting jdub to create mailing list
[09:20] <fabbione>     - ubuntu-instant parallel project started from the community to add value to -server (~ server for dummies)
[09:20] <fabbione>   + Implementation:
[09:20] <fabbione>     - Create an MD5 checker for the Ubuntu Installer rescue mode (see specs): server side code is done and tested. rt request filed for datacenter integration.
[09:20] <fabbione> * During this week:
[09:20] <fabbione>   - kernel security (big mess + ABI change)
[09:21] <fabbione>   - need to review policy for security with ABI changes (lrm and linux-meta)
[09:21] <fabbione> * Next week:
[09:21] <fabbione>   - monday: ubuntu love. I will be out distributing CDs to a lot of local users.
[09:21] <fabbione>   - kernel security left overs (if any)
[09:21] <fabbione>   - merges
[09:21] <fabbione>   - ubuntu-server and ubuntu-cluster work.
[09:21] <fabbione> * Side notes:
[09:21] <fabbione>   - Waiting a final date for a visit to a DK Company and held a talk there (sabdfl approved).
[09:21] <fabbione> (done)
[09:22] <JaneW> this is great :))
[09:22] <mdz> fabbione: boot-from-usb?
[09:22] <fabbione> mdz: no other progresses beside what i write
[09:22] <fabbione> wrote even
[09:23] <fabbione> (to keep it short)
[09:23] <seb128> should we mention all the specs or only the spec where we did some work?
[09:23] <mdz> fabbione: ok, we'll work on the format for next time so that this is clearer
[09:23] <pitti> the latter would make more sense
[09:23] <Mithrandir> oh, pong.
[09:23] <Mithrandir> sorry, I overslept. :-/
[09:23] <mdz> pitti: if a task is stalled, it's important for that to be clear during the meeting
[09:23] <pitti> ok
[09:24] <mdz> but we haven't time to discuss it here.  janew or I will send mail to the list about it
[09:24] <mdz> seb128: ready?
[09:24] <pitti> JaneW: maybe you can evaluate today's formats and suggest a standard one for the next meeting?
[09:24] <seb128> This week:
[09:24] <seb128> * caught with UBZ mail backlog
[09:24] <seb128> * packaged GNOME 2.13.2 (with dholbach)
[09:24] <seb128> * started menus-revisited changes
[09:24] <seb128> Next week:
[09:24] <seb128> * starting catching with bugs backlog
[09:24] <seb128> * push menus-revisited to implemented
[09:24] <seb128> * gconf transition (package split, location of the default change, new format to store custom defaults)
[09:24] <mdz> seb128: thanks
[09:24] <mdz> pitti: yes, we will do so after the meeting
[09:24] <mdz> pitti: ready?
[09:25] <pitti> hide-admin-tools-to-users: implemented backend part of hide-admin-tools-to-users; Plan: coordinate with seb128 and mvo about updating all desktop files and gnome-menu/update-notifier  Time estimate: 2 mandays
[09:25] <pitti> gstreamer-audio-backend: Blocks: I need gstreamer 0.10 beta in dapper; Plan: upgrade ALSA libs to 1.10 and make necessary adjustments according to spec; Time estimate: 1 day ALSA, 2 days gstreamer; libgnome: unclear
[09:25] <pitti> automatic-printer-conf: Plan: upgrade to latest cupsys beta; ETA: 6 hours (big package, lots of Ubuntu changes)
[09:25] <mdz> once we have a standard format we should be able to parallelize more without losing clarity
[09:25] <pitti> rosetta-firefox-support: Blocks: carlos currently plays with moz2po to actually get it working; ETA unknown
[09:25] <pitti> general for next week: finish merges, catch up with security, clean up anastacia
[09:25] <pitti> that's it for now, I didn't start with the other specs so far
[09:25] <mdz> seb128: will gstreamer 0.10 come in with gnome 2.13.2?
[09:26] <seb128> seb128: no, it's due first week of december
[09:26] <mdz> hmm, ok
[09:26] <mdz> pitti: thanks
[09:26] <pitti> seb128: any beta to play with?
[09:26] <mdz> Keybuk: next?
[09:26] <Keybuk> asure
[09:26] <Keybuk> udev-roadmap: klibc updated, but decided not to use it for udev.  modutils now up to date and owns the isapnp aliases and blacklists; potential issue with installer/initramfs modprobe (busybox) not supporting blacklists.  udev packaging is progressing well; chose intersection of Debian and SuSE rules for our own, still need to sort out upgrades.
[09:26] <seb128> there is 0.9 tarball, Debian has SVN version of the package but the Debian maintain doesn't want to upload them because the versionning will change for 0.10 ... probably better to wait the 2-3 weeks if we can
[09:26] <Keybuk> hardware-activation: firmware moved to /lib/firmware as new standard path, kernel-wedge updated, BenC to update kernel-source
[09:26] <Keybuk> network-magic: NetworkManager doesn't work with Atheros cards, which are pretty common in the target userbase.  Perhaps this should be deferred until the cards can be supported (which is most likely when we have an open driver for them as iz driver bug)
[09:26] <Keybuk> streamlined-boot: bootchart packages made available, 10s shaved by removal of boot-time depmod.  Next up see what the udev changes do, then fix readahead.
[09:27] <Keybuk> JaneW: could you mention which specs those are, some of us could be just forgetting by accident ;)
[09:27] <Kamion> Keybuk: installer issue is no longer relevant for now because I switched d-i to module-init-tools
[09:27] <JaneW> Keybuk: yes, but not today... all my FF windows have hung need to reboot after meeting ;)
[09:27] <mdz> Keybuk: regarding udev-roadmap, what is the status of the new coldplugging infrastructure?
[09:28] <mdz> Keybuk: let's chat later in detail about what to do with NM
[09:28] <Keybuk> mdz: oops, missed that in my trimming to one line ... prototype tested yesterday and seems to work, need to code up a full version and update initramfs -- ~1 day
[09:29] <mdz> Keybuk: ok, please make that your next priority so it lands as early as possible
[09:29] <infinity> Keybuk : I'll need a loud ping from you when you've released your soft lock on initramfs, by the way, so we avoid stepping on each other.
[09:29] <mdz> Keybuk: streamlined-boot also has a list of things to remove from the boot process, right?
[09:30] <JaneW> infinity/ Keybuk will you 2 coordinate that or do you need me to liaise?
[09:30] <infinity> JaneW : I tihnk we're capable. :)
[09:30] <JaneW> infinity: good :P
[09:30] <mdz> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[09:30] <mdz> mvo: next?
[09:30] <mvo> This week:
[09:30] <mvo> * automatic removal of dependencies:
[09:30] <mvo>   - merged work from UBZ with mainline, want to bounty dburrows
[09:30] <mvo> * support 3rd party package
[09:30] <mvo>   - support for sources.list.d added to apt/synaptic
[09:30] <mvo>   - gdebi (direct installing of debs) makes progress
[09:30] <mvo> Will do:
[09:30] <mvo> * support 3rd party packages channels and work on a gui for that
[09:30] <mvo>   (releated to "better repo dialog" spec)
[09:30] <mvo> * unattended package upgrades checking script
[09:31] <mvo> * gdebi upload to universe
[09:31] <pitti> mvo: can I have you for hide-admin-tools next week? for the u-n side? (should be a small change)
[09:32] <mvo> pitti: sure, that should be possible
[09:32] <mdz> mvo: command-not-found, release-upgrades?
[09:32] <mvo> mdz: not started yet, do you want me to change priorities?
[09:33] <mdz> mvo: please look at them in enough detail to make a time estimate this week, and we'll prioritize based on that
[09:33] <mdz> mvo: thanks
[09:33] <mdz> doko: next?
[09:33] <doko> toolchain-roadmap:  toolchain packages updated to current versions, not final releases. libstdc++ allocator changes start after flight-1, ia32-libs will start loosing packages next week (with glibc), java-updates: not yet started
[09:33] <doko> others: no progress
[09:33] <doko> This week:
[09:33] <doko> - snycs
[09:33] <doko> - preparing libstdc++ allocator change
[09:33] <doko> - experimental gij/gcj-4.1 builds
[09:33] <doko> Next week:
[09:33] <doko> - libstdc++ allocator changes, toolchain bug trial
[09:33] <doko> - java to native code infrastructure for libjava packages
[09:34] <doko> some help next week for the libstdc++ allocator changes would be nice
[09:34] <mdz> doko: I haven't finished catching up on the allocator stuff
[09:34] <mdz> doko: how many packages are affected?
[09:34] <doko> renaming about 40 libs in main
[09:34] <mdz> not another full C++ transition I hpe
[09:34] <infinity> doko : You have my help, of course, for naything requiring mass rebuilds.
[09:34] <doko> rebuilding depending packages
[09:35] <doko> no, not full. and it's all mechanical now
[09:35] <dholbach> doko: i'll help out there too
[09:35] <mdz> doko: ok, let's have a followup with you/me/JaneW about dividing that workload
[09:35] <doko> infinity, dholbach: thanks
[09:35] <doko> mdz: ok
[09:35] <Mithrandir> doko: would you have a chance to do the ooo-amd64 changes, or should I get around to do that?
[09:35] <Mithrandir> (to build native packages)
[09:35] <mdz> doko: thanks
[09:36] <doko> Mithrandir: I'd like to wait until after the allocator change
[09:36] <mdz> infinity: next?
[09:36] <Mithrandir> doko: ok, sure.
[09:36] <infinity> initramfs/usplash-*: fixing vga16fb and syslinux to both run at 640x400, pushing changes to BenC to get the kernel to use update-initramfs in its postinst, most other initramfs stuff will be started in the next week or two, when Keybuk releases his "lock".
[09:36] <infinity> reducing-duplication: ongoing effort, currently beginning to focus on rebuilding everything against the One True openssl (0.9.8)
[09:36] <infinity> misc-blocked: linux-restricted-modules waiting on Xorg to build (which is waiting on a new glibc from jbailey) before I bump us to new ATI drivers and fiddle with new Xorg and /lib/firmware paths.
[09:36] <infinity> misc-nextweek: PHP security updates on my plate, and of course, more effort on the merge and bug triage fray.
[09:37] <mdz> infinity: is buildd admin taking a lot of your time with the churn?
[09:37] <infinity> mdz : It can, this week hasn't been TOO painful, though.
[09:38] <infinity> mdz : It's actually far worse with little churn but high expectations (ie: close to test/release times)
[09:38] <sivang> hi all
[09:38] <mdz> infinity: ok, thanks
[09:38] <sivang> (sorry, wasn't aware of the time of the meeting, I was sure it was going to be in the evening)
[09:39] <mdz> Riddell: ready?
[09:39] <Riddell> This week: (kubuntu-roadmap-dapper) packaging KDE 3.5, preparing for the libstdc++ transition and discussing it with the Debian packagers, (kubuntu-translations) preparing KDE packages for rosetta, and doing the artwork for Kubuntu breezy CDs.
[09:39] <Riddell> Also tidied the Kubuntu wiki pages, (kubuntu-documentation) preparing documentation for breezy and preparing KubuntuDapperPackagerManager for Bounty.
[09:39] <JaneW> sivang: rotates 6 hourly each week, next week will be at 14:00 UTC
[09:39] <Riddell> Next week, doing c++ transition, simplify-kde, documentation packaging, hopefully kubuntu-system-tools fixing knetworkconf
[09:39] <sivang> JaneW: good, that is more doable for me :)
[09:40] <mdz> Riddell: kubuntu-system-tools is still drafting, we need to get it polished up before starting the implementation
[09:40] <Riddell> mdz: ok, I'll look at that today
[09:40] <mdz> Riddell: over the next week I need you to take charge of getting kubuntu CD builds going again (uninstallables, livefs builds, etc.)
[09:41] <sivang> JaneW: DapperGoals is da page ? :)
[09:41] <Kamion> sivang: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable
[09:41] <Kamion> (for the moment)
[09:41] <Riddell> mdz: yep, I've been waiting on c++ transition for that
[09:41] <infinity> Riddell : For the livefs unbreakage, you know to ping me if you need help, yes?
[09:41] <sivang> Kamion: ah right, thx
[09:41] <mdz> Riddell: we're trying to get a CD build out before introducing more uninstallability
[09:41] <Riddell> infinity: will do
[09:42] <mdz> Riddell: with Kamion's build process improvements, it should be much easier to run CD builds on-demand
[09:42] <mdz> Riddell: thanks
[09:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: next?
[09:42] <Kamion> Riddell: I re-enabled the cdimage crontab last night so at least you'll get test runs
[09:43] <Riddell> Kamion: great, thanks
[09:43] <Mithrandir> mdz: sure, ready.
[09:43] <mdz> Mithrandir: fire away
[09:43] <Mithrandir> This week:
[09:43] <Mithrandir> - merges
[09:43] <Mithrandir> - making it possible to build cdebconf widgets out-of tree.
[09:43] <Mithrandir> Next week:
[09:43] <Mithrandir> - merges
[09:43] <Mithrandir> - help making the CDs installable again so I can implement some of my CD-based specs and start doing the live cd boot speed instrumentation
[09:43] <Mithrandir> Blocked on:
[09:43] <Mithrandir> - generally bugzilla being utterly slow due to jamesh running gpg imports on the bugzilla host.  Makes it hard to know when bug triage and merges are possible to do.
[09:44] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'll follow up regarding macquarie
[09:44] <Mithrandir> mdz: thanks.
[09:44] <mdz> Mithrandir: please make CD and livefs installability your priority, to help Colin in preparing the first Flight
[09:44] <mdz> Mithrandir: coordinate with him regarding what needs to be done
[09:45] <Mithrandir> mdz: ok, will do.
[09:45] <pitti> I'll do the inclusion reports toay to fix anastacia
[09:45] <mdz> pitti: is anastacia currently blocking installability?
[09:45] <pitti> (and make a few uploads to use other libs, etc.)
[09:45] <pitti> mdz: not so sure, but buildability at least
[09:45] <Kamion> mdz: in some cases yes
[09:45] <Mithrandir> pitti: we should be announcing locks of some kind in #u-d, then.
[09:46] <Mithrandir> there has been a little (but not much) double-work due to people not announcing what they're doing.
[09:46] <mdz> Kamion: let's have a followup regarding the CD blockers and distributing that work to more people
[09:46] <Kamion> sure
[09:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: thanks
[09:46] <mdz> dholbach: next?
[09:46] <dholbach> this week: done: big heap of merges, gnome 2.13.2
[09:46] <dholbach> this week: to do: bug triage, missing merges, ubuntu-docs packaging
[09:46] <dholbach> next week: bug triage, missing merges, desktop team organisation, bug day, talking accessibility with hno73, c++ allocator change
[09:47] <dholbach> power-management-configuration: desrt, mjg59, pitti and hughsie are currently in the loop. the biggest problem is that gnome-power-manager/hal upstream want to have hal running as root, whereas pitti ... doesnt want to. We already considered not using g-p-m and rely on the scripts, Matthew didn't like that. desrt started hacking on various things for testing reasons, but unfortunately there was no agreement made yet.
[09:47] <dholbach> inclusion-of-docs: started to try to understand 80M of docs and how they are built; no upload yet, since there were no big changes yet
[09:47] <dholbach> acessibility-*: need to catch up with hno73, since the BOFs were not scheduled in Montreal
[09:47] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:47] <mdz> dholbach: hmm, let's talk later about power-management-configuration, sounds like we need to figure that out
[09:47] <dholbach> absolutely
[09:47] <Riddell> Keybuk: done
[09:47] <Kamion> dholbach: I think for avoidance of confusion (?) we should consider weeks to start and end at this meeting. :)
[09:48] <mdz> Kamion: indeed :-)
[09:48] <dholbach> ok :)
[09:48] <mdz> dholbach: thanks
[09:48] <mdz> ogra: ready?
[09:48] <ogra> yup
[09:48] <ogra> == thin-client-sound ==
[09:48] <ogra> * proof of concept works fine here (there is way less to do than the spec says, will correct this)
[09:48] <ogra> * implementation and coding will take another day
[09:48] <ogra> 
[09:48] <ogra> == thin-client-local-devices ==
[09:48] <ogra> * not started yet
[09:48] <ogra> * ltspfs packaged but not yet uploaded (needs more testing)
[09:48] <ogra> 
[09:48] <ogra> == thin-client-memory-usage ==
[09:48] <ogra> * did some further testing
[09:48] <ogra> * played with module blacklisting etc
[09:48] <ogra> * talked to daniels about reducing the color palette by default to 16bit for thin clients
[09:49] <ogra> 
[09:49] <ogra> == thin-client-faster-startup ==
[09:49] <ogra> * made all the changes we worked out at ubz
[09:49] <ogra> * did some bootcharting 
[09:49] <ogra> * enabled usplash, to recognize we loose 5sec through it :/
[09:49] <ogra> 
[09:49] <ogra> == gnome-screensaver (generally) ==
[09:49] <ogra> * started to adopt the .desktop file scheme for gnome-screensaver in xscreensaver
[09:49] <ogra> * split the hacks into 4 packages for shipped/non-shipped, gl/non-gl (per sabdfl request)
[09:49] <ogra> == gnome-screensaver-default-image ==
[09:49] <ogra>  * not started yet
[09:49] <ogra> 
[09:49] <ogra> == planned for the week ==
[09:49] <ogra>  * finish up my local bzr archive of ltsp mainline make it public and add my changes after 
[09:49] <ogra>    cross-check through mdz
[09:49] <ogra>  * get the specs texts finished and finally approved
[09:49] <ogra>  * further ltsp testing in all areas
[09:49] <ogra>  * finishing xscreensaver stuff 
[09:49] <ogra>  * making the first edubuntu CD, getting familiar with liveCD builds (we had none last release)
[09:50] <JaneW> ogra: and evangelising and trying to solicit community dev help!
[09:50] <mdz> ogra: ok, we have things to talk about on many of those goals, let's do that soon
[09:50] <ogra> mdz, yup
[09:50] <JaneW> mdz: want a sep edubuntu meeting with us?
[09:50] <mdz> JaneW: sure, we can do that at the same time
[09:50] <infinity> ogra : You may want to hit/ping me later about your experience with usplash on thin clients, I was going to play with that Real Soon Now.
[09:51] <mdz> JaneW: BenC and Diziet are not here, please follow up with them via email and CC me
[09:51] <ogra> infinity, its fine, just slow :)
[09:51] <JaneW> mdz: will do
[09:51] <infinity> ogra : Sure, but there's no reason it should be.  Anyhow, later.
[09:51] <ogra> yup
[09:51] <mdz> ok, one general agenda item is the merge process
[09:52] <mdz> we need to get this initial merge finished off so that we can move ahead with other work
[09:52] <pitti> I would really like to see some more people being able to sync packages
[09:52] <mdz> pitti: sync or merge?
[09:52] <pitti> it costs a lot of time to track these issues for several days
[09:52] <pitti> mdz: sync
[09:52] <seb128> yeah
[09:52] <ogra> mdz, sync
[09:52] <pitti> and they block other packages often
[09:52] <mdz> pitti: oh, carry out the actual sync in katie you mean?
[09:52] <pitti> mdz: yes
[09:53] <mdz> elmo, Kamion and I can all do that
[09:53] <Kamion> pitti: I did some for a while, but elmo said it costs him time to try to resolve what I've done against his queue when he comes back
[09:53] <Kamion> mdz: ^--
[09:53] <pitti> Kamion: hm, ok
[09:53] <seb128> it took me 4 days to get gnumeric buildable mostly waiting on syncs
[09:53] <pitti> but that is a blocker IMHO, at least for me
[09:53] <Kamion> and asked me not to do it unless it was world-shattering urgent and he'd jumped under a bus
[09:53] <mdz> Kamion: let's the three of us put our heads together and figure out how to do that better
[09:53] <Kamion> mdz: nod
[09:53] <Mithrandir> using the wiki or bugzilla or something sounds like a good plan, IMO.
[09:53] <pitti> when we discover that something can be synced, we should do it right away
[09:54] <pitti> otherwise new changes interfere with that, etc.
[09:54] <pitti> we already had that case
[09:54] <JaneW> mdz: are you going to get the DapperGaols wiki page going or should I?
[09:54] <mdz> JaneW: go ahead and create it; I'll populate it (was planning to just put a list of launchpad URLs there for now)
[09:54] <mdz> JaneW: there isn't much sense duplicating the info from launchpad I don't think
[09:55] <JaneW> mdz: I am scheming all sorts of huge and unwieldy tabulated stuff now ;)
[09:55] <mdz> JaneW: once we figure out the view we need, we can add it to the spec tracker and have it generated automatically
[09:55] <Kamion> pitti: not to be rah-launchpad or anything, but ultimately there'll be a button you can push to do that, I think ...
[09:55] <JaneW> mdz: that would be WAY better
[09:55] <mdz> ok, we have 5 minutes.  does anyone have a pressing concern which applies to the entire team?
[09:56] <daniels> mdz: ...
[09:56] <doko> mdz: disk space on concordia
[09:56] <fabbione> mdz. JaneW: sidenote: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable has no specs for which i am assignee...
[09:56] <mdz> daniels: oh, you're back. go
[09:56] <fabbione> doko: i did open an RT request for it
[09:56] <daniels> yes, I pinged you about 45 minutes ago.
[09:56] <daniels> completed: x11r7 rc1 and assorted bugfix fun.  a few merges, syncs.  prepared xorg breezy-update.  debugging mcpp.
[09:56] <daniels> wip: x11r7 rc2 tarball updates (~100 new tarballs).  everything but server done; server and drivers are in local testing as there's no point uploading (see below).
[09:56] <daniels> blocked: glibc for building xorg-server.  jbailey and I developed patch to fix.  new binutils upstream needed to let glibc build so xorg-server can build so the drivers can build.  bugzilla.
[09:56] <daniels> planned: finish x11r7 rc2 tarballs.  start work on uninstallables.  update mesa to new upstream when it comes.
[09:56] <daniels> x-roadmap: permanently wip by definition.  eta: jan 20th. dbus-restarts: largely fixed (we don't restart dbus anymore).  mostly informational for upstream use.  eta: not planned. gdm-keyboard-layout: superseded by a few other specs which don't involve me.  eta: no idea. faster-gnome-startup: some mcpp issues to iron out which have been causing me pain today.  eta: unsure (else only gnome work left).
[09:56] <pitti> hrmpf network #$##$
[09:56] <JaneW> fabbione: we'll have to fix that!
[09:57] <sivang> JaneW: lol
[09:57] <doko> fabbione, Znarl did tell me it was long term, but it looks like we need it short term, or at least have separate i386 and amd64 machines
[09:57] <mdz> daniels: so r7 final is expected in Jan?
[09:57] <daniels> dec 7th
[09:57] <mdz> daniels: what is blocking the glibc upload?  just do it
[09:57] <fabbione> doko: i told him we need a short term solution asap to work and a final solution because it is a long term issue
[09:57] <daniels> mdz: i can do it if you want, but it will FTBFS because of binutils
[09:58] <dholbach> mdz: the cd?
[09:58] <mdz> daniels: is the new binutils a big deal to package?
[09:58] <fabbione> mdz: elmo required some testing before upload and afaik he is looking into it
[09:58] <fabbione> there is a bit more than just pkging
[09:58] <daniels> mdz: elmo has said to tread very, very carefully around it, so jbailey is mostly sorting it out aiui
[09:58] <mdz> dholbach: the cd?
[09:59] <daniels> mdz: it's non-trivial (jumping to a new cvs revision)
[09:59] <dholbach> mdz: you asked what was blocking it... i was thinking loudly, sorry
[09:59] <mdz> daniels: ok, we can't block on jbailey as he'll be busy with support this cycle
[09:59] <mdz> daniels: let's discuss later
[09:59] <mdz> we're out of time
[09:59] <daniels> i'm not confident that I won't break the entire archive, which could possibly be counterproductive.  so it's not immediately obvious.
[10:00] <JaneW> daniels: good thing to say as the meeting ends!
[10:00] <mdz> anything else, mail me, me/janew, or ubuntu-devel as appropriate
[10:00] <pitti> that was a pretty useful meeting IMHO
[10:00] <JaneW> thanks everyone, for a first attempt that worked well
[10:00] <mdz> expect to hear from me and JaneW about refining the meeting process
[10:00] <mdz> but I think this was a good first attempt
[10:00] <fabbione> yup
[10:00] <Nafallo> pitti: agreed :-)
[10:01] <mdz> adjourned, thanks all
[10:01] <pitti> thanks
[10:01] <JaneW> see you all same place and day next week +6 hours
[10:01] <fabbione> thanks guys
[10:01] <Nafallo> thanks :-)
[10:01] <sivang> mdz: may I pm you about the medium prio goal I'm assigned to, or shall we talk about it in about 9 hours? :-)
[10:01] <mdz> sivang: email is best, I'm going to sleep
[10:01] <sivang> mdz: ok, good night!
[10:01] <JaneW> mdz: sleep well
[10:01] <ogra> night mdz
[10:01] <ogra> pfft
[10:01] <sivang> too fast :)