[12:02] <mdz> daniels: dunno
[12:02] <mdz> trailing whitespace on macro definitions sounds like IOCCC material
[12:02] <Kamion> that seems an entirely sane thing to do
[12:03] <Kamion> I can send you a PDF of the C99 standard if you like
[12:03] <daniels> no, thanks
[12:03] <Kamion> decomposition into tokens and whitespace (including comments) happens before execution of preprocessing directives
[12:03] <daniels> unless you want me to email you the ICCCM or something equally thrilling straight back
[12:04] <daniels> okay, cool
[12:04] <mdz> Adding to CD 1 : pool/main/g/grub/grub_0.95+cvs20040624-17ubuntu7.dsc pool/main/g/grub/grub_0.95+cvs20040624.orig.tar.gz pool/main/g/grub/grub_0.95+cvs20040624-17ubuntu7.diff.gz
[12:04] <mdz> or more interestingly, Hardlink: /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/ubuntu/tmp/dapper-amd64/CD1/pool/main/g/grub/grub_0.95+cvs20040624-17ubuntu7_amd64.deb => /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/ftp/pool/main/g/grub/grub_0.95+cvs20040624-17ubuntu7_amd64.deb
[12:04] <daniels> mcpp was writing out one space for whitespace separators, so #define FOO bar\n, was going to 'bar '; I changed it to always skip separators, but that means that #define FOO bar \n, goes to 'bar'
[12:06] <Kamion> mdz: the slowest bits of the build now are (a) syncing the archive (which can speed up quite a bit once we switch to launchpad, since inter-component symlinks in the pool will always be universe->main, never main->universe as they sometimes are now) and apt-ftparchive
[12:06] <mdz> Kamion: is apt-ftparchive not using a cache?
[12:06] <Kamion> mdz: as far as I know it is; there's certainly an apt-ftparchive-db/ in scratch
[12:07] <mdz> Kamion: in scratch, meaning it's not persistent across builds?
[12:07] <Kamion> no, scratch is persistent across builds
[12:07] <Kamion> it's randomly wipable, but persistent
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[12:09] <sistpoty> lamont-away: anything unusually on floe today (2042
[12:09] <sistpoty>  +) 
[12:09] <Kamion> hmm, the cache is of stuff in scratch/.../tmp/... - does it by any chance invalidate on timestamp?
[12:11] <mdz> Kamion: I don't think it does
[12:11] <Kamion> it might just be md5summing everything to check it's still the same, or something
[12:12] <Kamion> or forking gzip a load of times?
[12:13] <mdz> it should only be forking gzip for the Packages files, which shouldn't take long
[12:13] <mdz> an strace with timestamps would be interesting
[12:14] <Kamion> mdz: oh, it's using generate, and apt-ftparchive(1) says that the db has no effect on the generate command
[12:14] <Nafallo> infinity, lamont-away: could one of you please clear the dep-waits on aewm crossfire crack-attack eli mixxx after 23:33 UTC, thanx.
[12:14] <Kamion> is that actually true?
[12:14] <mdz> Kamion: I think that's referring to the command line option only
[12:14] <mdz> for generate, you should use BinCacheDB
[12:15] <mdz> inside the config file
[12:15] <Kamion> we're using Dir::CacheDir
[12:15] <Kamion> Dir::CacheDir "$APTTMP/$CODENAME-$ARCH/apt-ftparchive-db";
[12:15] <Kamion> is that insufficient?
[12:16] <Kamion> it seems to be creating packages-$(ARCH).db
[12:17] <mdz> yeah, that should be OK
[12:17] <mdz> is the .db of a believable size?
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[12:17] <Kamion> 11MB
[12:17] <Kamion> I'll get you an strace -tt at the next opportunity
[12:18] <Kamion> but last time I straced it, I seem to remember it forking processes for every .deb
[12:18] <Kamion> or at least lots of .debs
[12:18] <mdz> it takes an unexpectedly long time on jackass too
[12:18] <mdz> could just be buggy
[12:19] <Kamion> install CD builds done
[12:19] <mdz> that explains why my rsync just slowed to a crawl
[12:20] <mdz> yay for I/O
[12:20] <mdz> we have a package called crack-attack?
[12:20] <ogra> mdz, my gf is addicted to it
[12:20] <Nafallo> :-)
[12:21] <daniels> how on earth have you not managed to encounter crack-attack?
[12:21] <Nafallo> it's actually real fun :-)
[12:21] <daniels> it was frozen-bubble before frozen-bubble ever frozen-bubbled
[12:21] <ogra> in fact that was the reason why i had to install her warty back then
=== mvo installs crack-attack
[12:22] <mdz> I have played enough games for a lifetime
[12:22] <ogra> heh
[12:22] <mdz> well, spent enough time playing games at least
[12:22] <mdz> mostly just a few different ones
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[12:38] <kentborg> Is this the place to ask about compiling and installing custom kernel?
[12:38] <pitti> kentborg: no, #ubuntu please
[12:38] <kentborg> OK, thanks.
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[12:53] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync cycle from unstable, ubuntu override ok
[12:53] <kentborg> How can I find out how the stock initrd was made?
[12:53] <Kamion> which stock initrd?
[12:54] <kentborg> Kamion: Breezy Badger
[12:54] <kentborg> Kamion: 686
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[12:56] <kentborg> Kamion: or, more specifically, initrd.img-2.6.12-9-686
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[01:05] <Kamion> kentborg: it's generated by mkinitrd on your system when the kernel is installed
[01:05] <Kamion> there is no one stock initrd for everyone
[01:07] <kentborg> Kamion: When I try to generate one, I get a very different result (contents and beavior) from the one I didn't explicitly make.
[01:08] <Kamion> oh, sorry, breezy, mkinitramfs not mkinitrd
[01:08] <mdz> yay, i386 livefs build succeeded
[01:09] <Kamion> d'oh, base-config fails
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=== ogra downloads
[01:09] <Kamion> E: failed to rename /var/lib/aptitude/pkgstates to /var/lib/aptitude/pkgstates.old - save_selection_list (2 No such file or directory)
[01:09] <kentborg> Kamion: I tried mkinird, let me see if I have better results with mkinitramfs. Thanks.
[01:09] <mdz> amd64 as well, but powerpc failed
[01:10] <robertj> http://www.oxygen-icons.org/?cat=3 <-- yummy icons...
[01:10] <Kamion> kentborg: ok, please ask over on #ubuntu if you have further problems there
=== Nafallo uploads :-)
[01:12] <Kamion> pkgstates.new exists but pkgstates doesn't; eh?
[01:12] <kentborg> Kamion: No one seemed to know over there. I am currently digging through the kernel-team archives. Thanks.
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[01:13] <Kamion> kentborg: I'm sorry, we're just trying to prepare a release in here is all
[01:13] <Kamion> this has never been intended as an escalated support channle
[01:13] <Kamion> el
[01:14] <Evaso> anybody could try to apply this patch to warty and breezy?: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321671?
=== Kamion -> bed
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[01:16] <ogra> mdz, where do you hide the live iso ? 
[01:17] <mdz> ogra: I said livefs, not live iso
[01:17] <ogra> oh... 
[01:17] <ogra> ok
[01:17] <SEJeff> Would anyone be willing to add support in dapper for the zoom button in the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic 4000 keyboard if it meant I bought one for them?
[01:17] <mdz> I'm waiting for powerpc and then I will do live CD builds
[01:20] <Nafallo> infinity, lamont-away: could one of you please clear the dep-waits on egoboo playmidi ppracer ppxp sage seyon xbill xmoto xpilot-ng xruskb xsysinfo after 00:33 UTC, thanx.
=== Nafallo goes to bed, goodnight all! :-)
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[01:25] <ispiked> where is the cvs root for the current ubuntu kernel?
[01:27] <SEJeff> ispiked: ubuntu uses bzr not cvs
[01:27] <bob2> no
[01:27] <bob2> it uses git
[01:27] <mdz> ispiked: http://www.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/bcollins/ubuntu-2.6.git/
[01:27] <bob2> http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com/2404862.html
[01:28] <ispiked> basically, what I'm trying to find out is what patches are being applied to the most current kernel. 
[01:29] <ispiked> how close is it to Debian's kernel?
[01:29] <SEJeff> ispiked, apt-get source linux-image-386
[01:29] <ispiked> SEJeff: that'll be the most current one?
[01:30] <SEJeff> yes
[01:30] <ispiked> SEJeff: thanks.
[01:30] <mdz> no
[01:30] <mdz> that will get you the source for linux-meta
[01:30] <bob2> very different to Debian's, since Debian does not take feature patches
[01:30] <mdz> ispiked: the changelog lists the patches included
[01:31] <ispiked> mdz: which changelog?
[01:31] <ispiked> bob2: so it's not even related to Debians?
[01:31] <mdz> ispiked: the changelog in the package, as found on an installed system
[01:31] <bob2> yes
[01:32] <ispiked> mdz: yeah, I found that one, but that's only for my kernel (2.6.12). I know that there's been more work done since then, so I want to find out what patches went in since then.
[01:32] <mdz> ispiked: then, logically, you would look in the same place with a newer version
[01:33] <ispiked> mdz: yes, but where would I find that newer version?
[01:33] <mdz> ispiked: in dapper
[01:38] <ispiked> mdz: so apparently work has just started on the 2.6.15 kernel?
[01:39] <mjg59> ispiked: See the topic of #ubuntu-kernel
[01:39] <mjg59> There's a git tree for current development work
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[01:41] <ispiked> is there any reason they chose to use git over cvs? does git have advantages for kernel dev. or something?
[01:41] <mjg59> git is used for upstream
[01:41] <mjg59> It makes it much easier to merge in upstream changes automatically
[01:41] <lifeless> ispiked: kernel dev uses git.
[01:42] <SEJeff> ispiked, cvs isn't that great. That is why most use more modern SCM like bzr or svn
[01:42] <tseng> mjg59: tangentially, broken usplash it to be expected?
[01:42] <mjg59> tseng: Is it?
[01:42] <mjg59> I've no idea
[01:43] <mjg59> I haven't had time to shift to dapper yet...
[01:43] <mdz> mjg59: 2.6.15 seems to have horked vga16fb
[01:43] <ogra> tseng, 2.6.15 ?
[01:43] <tseng> ogra: yes.
[01:43] <mdz> at least for usplash purposes
[01:43] <ogra> thats normal it seems
[01:43] <mjg59> mdz: Horked vga16fb, or it's just not getting loaded?
[01:43] <mdz> mjg59: loads, but displays garbage
[01:43] <mdz> garbage with vaguely the right palette
[01:44] <ogra> it even shows some scrolling stuff
[01:44] <mjg59> Oh, right. Fun.
[01:44] <robertj> SEJeff: you should look up the cost to buy the thing and post it as a launchpad bounty
[01:45] <SEJeff> robertj: I have one. It is $50 and I will buy one for anyone willing to make it "just work TM" for dapper
[01:45] <SEJeff> robertj: Do more of the developers look at launchpad for bounties?
[01:45] <robertj> SEJeff: I would hope so
[01:45] <mdz> live cd build started, will be 20051118.1
[01:45] <ispiked> SEJeff: it?
[01:45] <mdz> bbl
[01:46] <robertj> ispiked: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/features/zoomslider.mspx
[01:46] <SEJeff> ispiked, http://www.everythingusb.com/microsoft_natural_ergonomic_keyboard_4000.html
[01:47] <robertj> does it just work like a scroll wheel?
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[01:47] <ispiked> I'd be willing to put up a bounty to get suspend resume working on SATA.
[01:47] <SEJeff> robertj: No
[01:47] <daniels> getting proper magnification support in X requires well-accelerated Composite, which won't happen in the dapper timefrmae
[01:47] <SEJeff> robertj, and none of the function keys work
[01:48] <daniels> SEJeff: you don't have an f-lock button?
[01:48] <robertj> err ctl+scroll or whatever it is
[01:48] <daniels> if you do, press it
=== SEJeff is an idiot. I just got the keyboard today
[01:49] <ogra> mjg59, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/usplash.png
[01:49] <robertj> ogra: is that going to be the new default for dapper?
[01:49] <ogra> heh, yeah
[01:50] <ogra> new digital modernism
[01:50] <mjg59> ogra: Woo, cool
[01:50] <mjg59> That's a VGA mode issue, I think
[01:50] <robertj> is the ScaryText(tm) going to remain?
[01:51] <mjg59> robertj: Ideally not
[01:51] <robertj> every time I see it I think "Reticulating splines"
[01:51] <mjg59> Do we have a d-i built with 2.6.15 yet?
[01:51] <mjg59> If so, does it have the same issue?
[01:51] <mjg59> If not, it's probably a bogl issue
[01:51] <robertj> which is what is stuck in my head as being symbolic for something complicated you don't need to know about and is done by the time you realize what has happened
[01:52] <robertj> and also as something most people don't have any idea about ever unless they get a dictionary
[01:55] <robertj> ahh 529.wav for you still with sc2k
[01:58] <crimsun> hmm, I take it we should be building against ssl 0.9.8
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[02:23] <mdz> daily live build is up (untested)
[02:26] <ogra> grmbl... and the rsync server seems limited to 2 connections per ip
[02:27] <mdz> freetype has broken firefox, grrr
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[03:27] <infinity> Nafallo_away : All your dep-waits are cleared.
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[03:30] <ogra> infinity, ping
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[03:31] <infinity> ogra : I just spoke 2 minutes ago. :)
[03:31] <ogra> infinity, yes, i'm sleepy sorry ...
[03:32] <ogra> infinity, you are the one to poke for initramfs-tools now ? 
[03:34] <infinity> So I'm told. :)
[03:34] <ogra> infinity, there is a "sleep 3" in the nfs script we added for debugging klibc once ... it slows my thin client boot down or 3 secs, culd you delete it please ?
[03:34] <ogra> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/nfs ine 36
[03:34] <ogra> *line
[03:34] <infinity> Are you positive it's not needed?
[03:34] <ogra> yes
[03:34] <ogra> mdz added it to avoid a timeout ... but it didnt really help
[03:35] <ogra> it was forgotten after we found that klibc had the wrong timeout settings for nfs mounts
[03:35] <ogra> so it can be dropped now
[03:36] <mdz> but that didn't fix the problem either
[03:36] <mdz> apparently
[03:36] <ogra> it doesnt time out anymore
[03:36] <ogra> just the first boot is slow ...
[03:36] <infinity> The comments in #12942 lead me to believe it's fixed...
[03:37] <ogra> yup, i think the timeout on first boot is not related ...
[03:37] <ogra> s/TIMEOUT/delay/
[03:37] <ogra> whoops ...
[03:38] <ogra> ECAPS
[03:38] <infinity> Anyhow, I'll happily remove the sleep (and any sleep I run across that can't properly explain itself)
[03:39] <ogra> yeah :)
[03:39] <ogra> mdz, seen #19407 yet ? 
[03:41] <mdz> no
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[03:46] <crimsun> uhh, sorry to whoever already uploaded vegastrike_0.4.3-3ubuntu1_source.changes
[03:47] <ogra> that was Nafallo
[03:47] <crimsun> yeah, I should have read the list first :/
[03:47] <ogra> did youupload 3ubuntu2 ?
[03:48] <crimsun> no, I duplicated his work I think
[03:48] <ogra> but that was rejected then, wasnt it ?
[03:48] <crimsun> yeah
[03:48] <crimsun> just wanted to alert in case it spams the REJECT
[03:49] <ogra> i think it goes only to you (and elmo)
[03:53] <jsgotangco> hey ogra doing an all-nighter?
[03:53] <ogra> nah
[03:53] <ogra> about to go to bed
[03:55] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[04:04] <ogra> night
[04:04] <jsgotangco> night
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[04:44] <note>  /msg nickserv set unfiltered on
[04:45] <note>  /msg nickserv set unfiltered off
[04:46] <tseng> note: you missed.
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[06:29] <dabaR> Hi. In synaptic, if I see a possible improvement, who can I talk to, to implement it, and get it accepted by Ubuntu?
[06:32] <dabaR> Such as the Mark additional required changes dialogue does not have a title.
[06:32] <dabaR> And some other nuances in the GUI.
[06:34] <crimsun> file bug report(s) in bugzilla on the package
[06:37] <dabaR> I would like to make the changes myself.
[06:38] <ispiked> dabaR: so make them, make a diff and attach it to the bug.
[06:40] <dabaR> OK, I will do so, I was asking because I never did any work on such a thing yet.
[06:41] <desrt> dabaR; you should find that ubuntu has a very low barrier for becoming involved
[06:41] <dabaR> Right, like just now...:)
[06:42] <dabaR> I already know what to do.
[06:42] <desrt> fwiw: ubuntu is switching over to using launchpad to track bugs
[06:42] <desrt> might want to get an account there and use that instead of the bugzilla
[06:42] <ispiked> aww.
[06:42] <desrt> launchpad.net
[06:42] <ispiked> I love bugzilla.
[06:42] <desrt> me too... but such is the way of things :)
[06:44] <dabaR> I do have an account there, as I started using Ubuntu right away when it was released(which was on my birthday by some chance) and I did a small amount of translation work there. I also hang at #ubuntu often.
[06:44] <Burgundavia> dabaR, you need to talk to mvo. Synaptic is very much in maintence mode right now
[06:44] <Burgundavia> dabaR, the things on the horizon are gnome-app-install and smart
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[06:55] <lamont-away> Nafallo_away: anything that was dep-wait libxaw8-dev isn't anymore
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[07:28] <fabbione> morning
[07:28] <fabbione> infinity: ping?
[07:28] <Burgundavia> morning fabbione 
[07:29] <Burgundavia> fabbione, what is the status of multiseat?
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[07:29] <fabbione> Burgundavia: up for adoption
[07:29] <Burgundavia> fabbione, just wondering. Figured
[07:29] <fabbione> it hasn't been maintained for a while
[07:29] <fabbione> dead project .. sort of
[07:29] <Burgundavia> why was it developed?
[07:29] <fabbione> as a base for the community to pick it up and continue it
[07:30] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:31] <fabbione> given the very low interested i think we can safely say that it's dead
[07:31] <marilize> morning all :)
[07:31] <Burgundavia> morning marilize 
[07:31] <fabbione> but it was working
[07:31] <Burgundavia> fabbione, ok
[07:31] <fabbione> hey marcin 
[07:31] <fabbione> bah
[07:31] <fabbione> marilize: 
[07:32] <fabbione> Burgundavia: afaik it doesn't require much love.
[07:32] <fabbione> it needs to have the x config writer sort of updated to the new one
[07:32] <fabbione> and some sound love
[07:32] <Burgundavia> ok
[07:32] <fabbione> that at the time was not possible to complete because i was lacking the hardware for testing
[07:33] <fabbione> but it might need more by now
[07:33] <fabbione> like keyboard/mouse hotplug
[07:33] <fabbione> not sure.. really
[07:34] <Burgundavia> I should talk to me company
[07:34] <Burgundavia> we might be able to adopt it
[07:35] <jsgotangco> nice
[07:35] <fabbione> eheh  nice :)
[07:35] <fabbione> have fun tho
[07:35] <Burgundavia> fabbione, I work for http://userful.com/
[07:36] <fabbione> i see
[07:36] <fabbione> well that would make sense
[07:36] <Burgundavia> hence we might have a few people that know a little bit about multiseat linx in general
[07:38] <fabbione> yeah the multiseat setup is not difficult really
[07:38] <fabbione> our Xserver already contains all the patches required to do that
[07:39] <fabbione> including the hotplug signal to reinit mouse/keyboard
[07:39] <fabbione> if you will start on the project, i will give you an head up on the code
[07:39] <fabbione> or daniels can
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[07:40] <Burgundavia> sounds good
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[08:33] <viviersf> why does hal depend on X libraries ?
[08:36] <Keybuk> all the cool kids do these days
[08:36] <Keybuk> there's a 12-step programme for breaking the dependency, but it's not well subscribed
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[09:03] <viviersf> chmj, why does hal depend on X libraries ?
[09:04] <fabbione> viviersf: because all the cool kids do these days
[09:04] <chmj> viviersf: you shoudl ask pitti, he will prolly have a good answer 
[09:04] <viviersf> kk
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[09:05] <chmj> morning fabbione 
[09:05] <viviersf> fabbione, it not about that hal on the initrd.gz doesnt have x so its not needed
[09:05] <fabbione> hi Chipzz 
[09:05] <fabbione> bah
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[09:05] <fabbione> i hat completion
[09:05] <fabbione> hi chmj 
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[09:06] <fabbione> viviersf: i doubt there is hal in the initrd.gz
[09:06] <viviersf> ah wait
[09:06] <viviersf> im thinking about hotplug
[09:06] <viviersf> soz
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[09:07] <fabbione> hotplug is going to die anyway
[09:07] <fabbione> so what is your concern exactly?
[09:07] <fabbione> hi pitti
[09:07] <viviersf> fabbione, no man
[09:07] <viviersf> i made mistake
[09:07] <viviersf> dont worry bout it
[09:07] <fabbione> ok
[09:07] <fabbione> i am not worried at all.. really
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[09:16] <hunger> viviersf: What is going to replace hotplug? Will the scripts in /etc/hotplug stay?
[09:17] <viviersf> hunger, i dont know
[09:17] <viviersf> that you have to ask piiti
[09:18] <chmj> < fabbione> hotplug is going to die anyway
[09:19] <pitti> hunger: it will be replaced by a small set of udev rules
[09:20] <HiddenWolf> pitti, any ETA?
[09:20] <hunger> pitti: I have a couple of custom scripts in /etc/hotplug. Do you know of any instructions on how to transfer them to the new system?
[09:20] <Keybuk> hunger: no, /etc/hotplug is going
[09:20] <Keybuk> new scripts should be moved to /lib/udev (or similar) and activated with a udev rule
[09:21] <Keybuk> so if you had a script for USB printers, you might have a rule that did BUS=="usb", KERNEL="lp[0-9] *", RUN+="/lib/udev/fiddle-with-usb-printers"
[09:21] <Keybuk> with an == where I put = <g>
[09:21] <hunger> Keybuk: OK, so I'll do that instead.
[09:22] <hunger> Keybuk: Let's see whether I can manage that:-)
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[09:22] <hunger> Is pcmcia going, too? I read in the kernel changelogs that it got merged with hotplug.
[09:22] <Keybuk> I'll write up a HOWTO at some point over the next 6 months
[09:22] <Keybuk> ya know, I have no clue as far as pcmcia is concerned
[09:23] <hunger> Keybuk: Any ETA for the change?
[09:23] <Keybuk> one minute it seems to be, one minute it isn't
[09:23] <Keybuk> pcmcia is certainly part of the kobject stuff now
[09:23] <Keybuk> so theoretically, you don't need cardmgr
[09:23] <Keybuk> but cardmgr still does things, so maybe you do
[09:23] <hunger> Keybuk: Yeap, that was my impression, too:-)
[09:23] <Keybuk> hunger: maybe today ... depending how much work I get done
[09:23] <hunger> Keybuk: Too few users for pcmcia nowadays I guess.
[09:23] <Keybuk> yeah
[09:23] <HiddenWolf> Go keybuk!
[09:23] <HiddenWolf> hunger, not true.
[09:24] <hunger> Keybuk: OK, I'll reserve some time over the weekend to fix up xen:-)
[09:24] <HiddenWolf> hunger, all those el-cheapo student laptops with plug-in wifi cards.
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[09:24] <hunger> HiddenWolf: Oh, you are right of course.
[09:24] <Keybuk> the HardwareDetection spec pretty much describes what we're going to be doing
[09:25] <Keybuk> breezy does:
[09:25] <HiddenWolf> I doubt pmcia will die any time soon.
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[09:26] <Keybuk> kernel calls /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug, which is udevsend, which sends a message to udevd, which starts udev, which runs hotplug, which picks an appropriate hotplug agent from /etc/hotplug, which calls grepmap to parse the /lib/modules/$VER/*.*map files to find the modules, and then loads the modules, and does other crap
[09:26] <Keybuk> dapper will do:
[09:26] <Keybuk> kernel sends event over netlink socket to udevd, which runs the rules itself, one of which is "modprobe $MODALIAS" (a variable set by the kernel to identify the modules you need to load)
[09:27] <Keybuk> for the "other crap" in dapper, you'd just need to add a udev rule
[09:27] <Keybuk> a good example is /etc/udev/rules.d/hdparm (in current dapper)
[09:27] <Keybuk> except that file is completely bogus, lol
[09:27] <Keybuk> la la la
[09:28] <Keybuk> clearly I did that one while jetlagged
=== hunger is afraid that this new system will mess up my virtual network setup completly:-(
[09:30] <hunger> Hehe... more suff to play with.
[09:31] <Keybuk> how does it work, I'm entirely happy to sit down and figure it out with you
[09:31] <Keybuk> basically where you had a general /etc/hotplug/$SUBSYSTEM/$SCRIPT that becomes a udev rule that looks like SUBSYSTEM=="$SUBSYTEM", RUN+="$SCRIPT"
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[09:32] <hunger> Keybuk: Lots of tun and vif interfaces connected to various bridges.
[09:32] <Keybuk> but you get all sorts of new flexibility to put all the "should I do this?" logic in the udev rule, rather than the script
[09:32] <Keybuk> the fun comes trying to convert a usermap into a udev rule
[09:32] <hunger> Keybuk: The "problem" is that this has to work with the scripts from Xen and Co.
[09:33] <Keybuk> right
[09:33] <hunger> Keybuk: By the way: Will /etc/network/if-*.d still be supported?
[09:33] <Keybuk> the good news is that what we're doing now is the same as SuSE
[09:33] <hunger> Keybuk: Even with NetworkMagic?
[09:33] <Keybuk> and hopefully everyone else will tag along too
[09:34] <hunger> Keybuk: Usually that is a reason to run and hide;-)
[09:34] <Keybuk> heh, /etc/network/if-*.d don't work in breezy -- but yes, they should work
[09:34] <Keybuk> nah, the SuSE hotplug guys are sane
[09:34] <hunger> Keybuk: They do here...
[09:34] <Keybuk> they work if the card is brought up after boot
[09:34] <Keybuk> but not if its brought up at boot time
[09:35] <hunger> Keybuk: Oh. Haven't even noticed that yet.
[09:35] <hunger> Keybuk: Since standby started to work stortly before breezy I have not seen the need to reboot;-)
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[09:36] <hunger> Keybuk: Thanks for the informations! I'll not keep you from your work any longer:-)
[09:39] <Keybuk> you're not keeping me
[09:39] <Keybuk> I'm currently grinning, because it wasn't me who wrote that bogus hdparm.rules file, but it came from Debian
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[09:48] <Keybuk> Working for this Company has warped my mind
[09:48] <Keybuk> it's magazine day, and on the back of SFX is an advert for "HE-MAN: A Christmas Special"
[09:49] <fabbione> ahahah
=== Treenaks calls the MOTU
[09:49] <Keybuk> if we ever have a fancy-dress party at a conference, dholbach is doomed; it's the red furry underpants and boots for him
[09:50] <seb128> :)
[09:50] <Keybuk> unfortunately this would mean \sh would have to go as she-ra
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[10:02] <dholbach> hi
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[10:05] <Keybuk> dholbach: we were just talking about you
[10:05] <dholbach> Keybuk: oh really? about what?
[10:05] <Keybuk> about your costume if we ever have a conference fancy-dress party (furry red underpants and boots)
[10:06] <dholbach> Keybuk: who had that much imagination?
[10:06] <Keybuk> nobody, SFX just has a big he-man advert on the back and my mind is still warped
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[10:07] <mvo> haha
[10:07] <ajmitch> remind me not to turn up to that party :)
[10:07] <dholbach> Keybuk: if i was about to wear that dress, what would you wear?
[10:07] <seb128> dholbach: you don't want to know :p
[10:07] <seb128> don't be scared :)
=== mvo makes a note to buy dholbach this special dress
[10:08] <dholbach> seb128: if i'm going to turn up in a silly dress, i don't want to be the only one :)
=== seb128 makes a note to take his camera
[10:08] <Keybuk> ya know, I have absolutely no idea ... suggestions gratefully received on a postcard
[10:10] <dholbach> "furry red underpants and boots" ...
[10:11] <seb128> I'll have to take pictures of that
[10:11] <Keybuk> I don't lead the MOTU ... though if I get to swing a big sword around ... <g>
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[10:25] <seb128> Diziet: around?
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[10:28] <sivang> Morning all!
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[10:35] <viviersf> Kamion, you got any suggestions to get a ubuntu system down to bout 120 mb /
[10:35] <viviersf> ?
[10:36] <HiddenWolf> viviersf, xfce. ;)
[10:36] <viviersf> erm HiddenWolf 
[10:36] <viviersf> thats a dumb comment
[10:36] <fabbione> viviersf: you could start looking at ubuntu-meta
[10:36] <fabbione> and start trimming that down 
[10:36] <viviersf> even without gnome or kde its 300 mb
[10:36] <viviersf> and ive removed allot
[10:36] <viviersf> thx fabbione 
[10:36] <viviersf> lemme look
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[10:36] <fabbione> perhaps rename it to something like microubuntu-meta
[10:36] <HiddenWolf> hm
[10:36] <HiddenWolf> I figured ram. :)
[10:37] <fabbione> viviersf: did you try the server install?
[10:37] <viviersf> nope fabbione 
[10:37] <viviersf> im remove all unneeded stuff
[10:37] <fabbione> start from there
[10:37] <viviersf> cos xorg still has to be on
[10:37] <fabbione> iirc it's about 200Mb
[10:37] <fabbione> oh
[10:37] <fabbione> meh
[10:37] <viviersf> ya its being a mission
[10:37] <HiddenWolf> viviersf, I'd say strip it down to ubunt-minimal with debfoster, then add xorg again.
[10:38] <viviersf> k how big is a ubuntu-minimal install ?
[10:38] <viviersf> in hdd space
[10:38] <fabbione> iirc about 200MB
[10:38] <fabbione> but it can go down than that
[10:38] <viviersf> kewl
[10:38] <viviersf> lemme look thx
[10:38] <fabbione> but there is NO X there
[10:39] <fabbione> X is kind of big to pull in
[10:39] <viviersf> i need x 
[10:39] <viviersf> for nxclient
[10:40] <HiddenWolf> X is like, big.
[10:40] <viviersf> nah not that big
[10:40] <viviersf> k look 
[10:41] <viviersf> here is the thing :
[10:41] <viviersf> i need a distro
[10:41] <viviersf> then i compress it with squashfs
[10:41] <viviersf> and then it must be 32mb :(
[10:41] <viviersf> so 100mb odd will be perfect
[10:41] <viviersf> before its compressed
[10:41] <viviersf> atm its 300 before 
[10:41] <viviersf> so lemme try the cutdown ubuntu 1st
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[10:42] <carstenh> grep-status -nsPackage -FPriority "required" will tell you which packages you really need, excluding apt, kernel and bootloader
[10:47] <JaneW> Reminder: Could everyone with Dapper Specs please  go into the Spec on LaunchPad and in the Update Status section add their Estimated Developer Days for implementing the spec. Thanks.
[10:48] <Keybuk> JaneW: is that the number of days to implement the spec if you had no other work to do, and could focus on it for every hour of the day
[10:48] <Keybuk> or the number of days taking into account being distracted on IRC, dealing with e-mail, bug reports, merges, etc. along the way?
[10:48] <Keybuk> or is it the number of days /from now/ that you expect the spec to be completed, bearing in mind all of the above and other specs in front of it in the priority queue?
[10:49] <JaneW> Keybuk: arrgh
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[10:50] <JaneW> Keybuk: I would say do the estimate in issolation, if someone was given that spec how long would it take them to implement (assuming they didn't need to study for 3 years first to understand it!)
[10:50] <Keybuk> and should I take into account the fact that on most days I'm only really productive on a given task for maybe a couple of hours a day?
[10:50] <Keybuk> not that it really matters, I guess
[10:50] <Keybuk> I'll probably just pick a random number and multiply by 10 like I usually do <g>
[10:51] <Keybuk> it's turned out to be an uncannily accurate guess 
[10:51] <pitti> JaneW: I did not consider it as ETA, but as pure work time for that very goal
[10:51] <JaneW> Keybuk: no I think let's say this task would take 10 full days (i.e. 8 hour days)
[10:51] <hunger_> Keybuk: Hey, that's my algorithm, too! ;-)
[10:51] <Keybuk> so 10 full 8 hour days would equate to 40 "normal" days ?
[10:51] <JaneW> well need to load balance for ppl with high operational over heads 
[10:51] <viviersf> ij carstenh , i got required list, now how do i get the reverse of it ?
[10:52] <Keybuk> in my experience of many different companies, all of whom tried this "time estimating" thing, the best way to work out how long something will take is to do it, then work out how long it took you
[10:52] <JaneW> Keybuk: so if you have 10 goals and they are all 100 days, clearly that's too much, and we'd need to redistribute or clone you or something...
[10:52] <Keybuk> it's easier, and more accurate, than the eternal "keep track of how far off our estimates of time were so we can improve our ability to estimate"
=== Keybuk has yet to find anyone who can accurately estimate the time a project would take
[10:53] <Keybuk> not that I'm cynical about the whole "man days" thing, or anything, you understand
[10:53] <JaneW> Keybuk: yeah sure, but you should know if it;s a one day, one week or one month kind of a task more or less
[10:53] <JaneW> Keybuk: we are mainly doing it it try to prevent overloading ppl as badly as last time
[10:53] <carstenh> viviersf: use something like cmp $(...) $(dpkg --get-selections | grep -v deinstall | greo install | awk '{print $1}')
[10:53] <Keybuk> Keybuk's Laws of Software Engineering
[10:53] <Keybuk> 1) it will always take longer than you think
[10:53] <carstenh> where ... is the code you already have
[10:54] <Keybuk> 2) the time something will take is raised to the power of the number of people involved
[10:54] <JaneW> Keybuk: and in my expereince you can justify more resources without dreaded metrics
[10:54] <Keybuk> 3) specifications are the best way of documenting exactly how it _won't_ be implemented
[10:54] <Keybuk> JaneW: more resources = see keybuk's second law :p
[10:55] <JaneW> Keybuk: yes but with 20-50 ppl involved some attempt at organisation is required
[10:55] <pitti> Keybuk: these are all mere corollaries of Murphy's law :)
[10:56] <Keybuk> I'm a very unpopular estimator :-/  I once angered management by claiming something would take 18 months to do, and they informed me they couldn't tell the customer that
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[10:56] <carstenh> viviersf: should be <() instead of $() of course
[10:57] <Keybuk> 18 months later, the customer had gone elsewhere because they got fed up with being repeatedly told "just another month" for the 18th time
[10:57] <siretart> hi folks
[10:57] <pitti> Keybuk: reminds me of Scotty's '8 weeks' estimate in Star Trek 4
[10:57] <pitti> anyway, back to kernel testing
[10:57] <Keybuk> pitti: that's so true though :)  ALWAYS multiply your estimates, so if you get it done quicker, you seem like a miracle worker; and if you don't, you can't be blamed
[10:58] <siretart> does anyone know if daniels is actually aware that his new xorg 7 servers ftbfs?
[10:58] <Keybuk> siretart: almost certainly; he probably doesn't care though :-(
[10:58] <siretart> okay :(
[10:58] <Treenaks> siretart: he does know. it's waiting for new binutils/libc afaik
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[11:05] <viviersf> ok any1 here know how you clear the mbr
[11:05] <viviersf> and not with lilo -M
[11:05] <fabbione> viviersf: these are more #ubuntu questions, but you can use dd
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[11:06] <viviersf> fabbione, i asked there yesterday and it didnt work
[11:06] <viviersf> they didnt know how
[11:06] <fabbione> ask again really
[11:06] <fabbione> users change a lot from day to day
[11:06] <fabbione> and this isn't a support channel
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[11:16] <mvo> ogra: is tipptrainer a edubuntu app? or do I need to talk to the motus about it? (if it's not a edubuntu app, have a look, it's very useful)
[11:17] <Nafallo> mvo: it's in universe atleast. I was last-uploader ;-).
[11:18] <dholbach> mvo: so you now know who to flame :)
[11:18] <Nafallo> :-)
[11:18] <hunger> dholbach: Uses do like to express there eternal gratitude, they never flame! ;-)
=== mvo whishs that would be the case
[11:20] <JaneW> Keybuk: my last job was a place where 18 months would go by arguing about what to do, and how to do it, and how much it would cost, and then they'd want it done urgently in 3 weeks!
[11:25] <Keybuk> JaneW: ahhh, spec-driven development <g>
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=== Keybuk blinks at X
[11:27] <Keybuk> it's ok, I didn't need a mouse cursor
[11:27] <Keybuk> I wonder whether that's a new X bug
[11:27] <Keybuk> or the "don't modprobe psmouse before the USB stack" bug
[11:29] <Keybuk> looks like iz kernel bug
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[11:33] <Keybuk> ...now, where did I read all about that bug and why it happens and how we fix it?
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[12:05] <Kamion> ok, last night's install failure turns out to be fixed in Debian's aptitude; merging
=== \sh has a big big big big problem...and I wonder who is responsible for this
[12:08] <Nafallo> lamont-away, infinity, Kamion: could one of you please clear the dep-wait on mixxx (ia64 and powerpc), thanx :-).
[12:08] <HiddenWolf> \sh, see a doctor
[12:09] <fabbione> \sh: they don't allow to cut heads anymore.. even if empty :)
[12:09] <Keybuk> \sh: what is your problem?
[12:11] <\sh> Keybuk: one sourcecode, no diffs, but not the same size of the orig.tar.gz, means our orig.tar.gz of gajim is some bytes smaller then the orig.tar.gz from debian  
[12:11] <Nafallo> \sh: wanna know why? :-)
[12:12] <fabbione> score
[12:12] <Nafallo> we don't have debian/ in the .orig.tar.gz IIRC.
[12:12] <Kamion> \sh: wouldn't be the first time it's happened
[12:12] <\sh> Nafallo: in this version 0.8.2 there is no debian dir even in debian
[12:13] <Nafallo> oh?
[12:13] <Kamion> you either have to fake a new upstream version, or wait for a new one from upstream to resolve the problem
[12:14] <Nafallo> hm, right. no debian/.
=== Nafallo still wants head in ;-)
[12:14] <\sh> Kamion: I think this is the best solution...0.9 should hit the world one week before x-mas
[12:14] <Keybuk> heh, mom gets mightily confused by that
[12:14] <Keybuk> and it's pretty random which .orig.tar.gz you get, too
[12:14] <\sh> Nafallo: no there are too many bugs inside the tree
[12:15] <\sh> Keybuk: yes..but it's somehow very strange
[12:15] <Nafallo> bugs are here to be solved ;-)
[12:15] <\sh> -rw-r--r-- 1 shermann shermann 1204727 2005-09-06 19:30 gajim_0.8.2.orig.tar.gz
[12:15] <\sh>  <- ubuntu version in archive
[12:16] <\sh> -rw-r--r-- 1 shermann shermann 1216657 2005-09-11 17:47 gajim_0.8.2.orig.tar.gz
[12:16] <\sh>  <--- in debian and in MoMs merge dir
[12:16] <Kamion> so whoever uploaded 0.8.2-0ubuntu1 probably did so before 0.8.2-1 was uploaded to Debian, and either we repacked the .tar.gz by mistake, or Debian did, or both
[12:16] <Kamion> does this surprise you?
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[12:17] <Kamion> (or repacked deliberately, even; sometimes there are reasons for that, e.g. non-DFSG-free content in .tar.gz)
[12:17] <Nafallo> I actually took the .orig.tar.gz from gajim.org with uuscan :-)
[12:17] <Keybuk> source tarball is a .bz2
[12:17] <Keybuk> (upstream)
[12:17] <Kamion> ah, there we go
[12:17] <Keybuk> so it's been re-bzipped by both, probably at different times
[12:17] <\sh> Kamion: I used the orig upstream tarball..and the debian maintainer should use it too...but he is as well source upstream...
[12:17] <Keybuk> uh, re-gzipped
[12:18] <Nafallo> \sh: you didn't. I brought in 0.8.2 :-)
[12:18] <Kamion> \sh: you will have to deal with this problem at frequent intervals for many packages where we have packaged upstream versions before Debian did
[12:18] <hunger> *LOTS* of dangling symlinks have accumulated on my system since I originally installed hoary:-(
[12:18] <\sh> for 0.8.1 that was...for 0.8.2 was did that
[12:18] <Kamion> \sh: you might as well get used to it :)
[12:18] <Keybuk> hmm
[12:18] <\sh> Kamion: for sure...but it freaks me out ;)
[12:18] <Keybuk> the Debian size matches the .tar.gz you can sneak if you dirname the path on the webpage
[12:19] <\sh> thats the only difference...ours matches 0.8.2.orig and debians is 0.8.2 ,)
[12:19] <Keybuk> uuuuusually you can just ignore it
[12:19] <Keybuk> if there's an orig in our archive, you're not uploading another one anyway
[12:20] <Keybuk> so you just go "la la la, I so didn't notice, honest" and upload the diff.gz
[12:20] <Kamion> you can't sync until the clash is resolved with a new upstream version though
[12:20] <\sh> i'll wait now for 0.9 thats it.
[12:20] <hunger> Does fakeroot on purbose install stuff into /usr/lib64 on a non-64bit machine?
[12:32] <Kamion> pitti: postgresql-8.0 demoted to universe
[12:32] <pitti> Kamion: yay
[12:32] <pitti> Kamion: I just uploaded a new language-support-ku with an aspell-ku dependency
[12:32] <pitti> Kamion: I reviewed aspell-ku, it's ok
[12:33] <Kamion> pitti: ok, promoted
[12:33] <pitti> Kamion: (this will make the Kurdish users a lot more happy :) )
[12:33] <pitti> thanks
[12:33] <pitti> hmm, s/more happy/happier/, right?
[12:33] <Kamion> right
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[12:34] <pitti> Bonjour Monsieur Bacher
[12:36] <dholbach> pitti: seb taught us a lesson in #ubuntu-desktop: "<seb128> no french guy would say Bon Jour"
[12:36] <pitti> mvo:    * debian/patches/leave-lo-alone.patch - don't take away the address of the loopback interface (ubuntu #10174)
[12:36] <pitti> mvo: lol, dhcp really tried to get a new address for loopback?
[12:37] <pitti> dholbach: so what's the more colloquial way? (and I'm not a french guy :) )
[12:38] <Nafallo> Bonjour != Bon Jour :-)
[12:39] <hunger> ARG! Launchpad drives me crazy.
=== Nafallo likes Salut better anyway ;-)
[12:39] <seb128_> dholbach: yeah, that's not 2 words, pitti got it right :)
[12:40] <pitti> ah :)
[12:40] <mvo> pitti: yes :) long standing bug
[12:41] <mvo> pitti: and worse, gnome fails in strange ways without lo
[12:41] <seb128_> mvo: this bug sucks, my laptop doesn't get an IP on boot with 5.10 because of some bug
[12:41] <seb128_> so I need to run dhclient
[12:41] <seb128_> which breaks my GNOME by unsetting the lo IP every time :p
[12:42] <mvo> seb128_: it should be fixed now (fingers crossed)
[12:42] <seb128_> nice
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[01:32] <cribeiro> hi. first time here. I'm writing a spec on the launchpad, it's audio related
[01:32] <ogra> hmm, none of yesterdays liveCDs work 
[01:33] <cribeiro> so I assume this is the correct channel (to debate specs)
[01:37] <dholbach> cribeiro: if you wrote it, it might be the best to raise awareness on it on the mailing list - i will surely catch more eyes there, but if you have questions, you can clearly ask them here as well
[01:39] <cribeiro> dholbach: nice to know. I'm still drafting it. So it needs discussion.
[01:40] <cribeiro> it started out as a simple spec for a control-panel style app to configure SoundFonts.
[01:40] <cribeiro> But know I'm thinking about extending the idea further.
[01:40] <cribeiro> dolbach: can you spare a minute? if it's off topic let me know...
[01:43] <cribeiro> dholbach: my original intent was to have a tool to configure (add/delete) SoundFonts. But soundfonts come in deb packages.
[01:43] <cribeiro> the problem is - there is no easy way to tell for sure which packages contain soundfonts.
[01:43] <cribeiro> or ttf fonts, or LADSPA plugins.
[01:44] <cribeiro> So my idea, still a bit flurry, is:
[01:44] <cribeiro> is there any way to mark packages (deb packages, I mean) as containing only a certain type of file... in such a way that a specialized app (a control-panel app) could be used to addd/remove it???
[01:46] <dholbach> cribeiro: -> query
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[01:56] <\sh> elmo: please sync kdiff3 from unstable, ubuntu changes can be dropped
[01:58] <Kamion> infinity: would it be possible to bump aptitude up the buildd queue? the buildds seem to be rather slow right now ...
[01:59] <infinity> Kamion : Yeah, I should also check into why they're slow. :)
=== infinity putters off to look.
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[02:06] <infinity> Oh, feh.
=== pitti sighs at his bugzilla inbox
[02:08] <\sh> elmo: please sync grip from unstable, ubuntu changes can be dropped
[02:09] <Nafallo> infinity: ?
[02:11] <bmonty_laptop> elmo: please sync fetchyahoo from unstable, ubuntu changes can be dropped
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[02:48] <bmonty_laptop> elmo: please sync filelight, I see you have incorporated the ubuntu changes :)
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[02:51] <pitti> elmo: what is necessary to get current dapper pmount into breezy-backports? I already mailed u-backports@ recently, but no response
[02:51] <pitti> elmo: tons of users want to mount their floppies, which fails with breezy's version
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[02:51] <seb128> pitti: that's not a candidate for -updates?
[02:52] <pitti> seb128: hmm, the 0.9.6 changes are pretty big
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[02:52] <pitti> seb128: OTOH it works now for several weeks in dapper
[02:52] <pitti> Hi BenC
[02:52] <BenC> hey pitti
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[03:01] <seb128> Keybuk: is hct supposed to work atm?
[03:04] <seb128> Keybuk: 
[03:04] <seb128> /usr/bin/hct: Sorry, an unhandled server fault occurred: error
[03:04] <seb128> get-source: bug-buddy was supposed to be available through HCT but that gave me an error, will try with apt.
[03:04] <seb128> :/
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[03:11] <\sh> elmo: please sync bzr from unstable, ubuntu canges can be dropped
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[03:16] <robertj> mvo: you around?
[03:16] <mvo> robertj: yes
[03:17] <robertj> you want to try to hop onto that vnc session again?
[03:17] <Kamion> \sh: er, bzr/unstable is behind bzr/dapper
[03:17] <Kamion>        bzr |      0.6-2 |      unstable | source, all
[03:18] <Kamion>        bzr | 0.6.2-0ubuntu1 | dapper/universe | source, all
[03:18] <mvo> robertj: please /msg me the ip :)
[03:18] <\sh> Kamion: well...nice...
[03:19] <\sh> Kamion: moment...why is it hmmm...
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[03:19] <\sh> i need really new glasses...
[03:20] <\sh> ha..mom happyness and \sh blindness
[03:20] <robertj> mvo: ok it should be in your msg buffer
[03:20] <\sh> elmo: please forget what I said thx
[03:20] <\sh> elmo: about bzr
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[03:21] <mvo> robertj: thanks, it is. apparently I can't /msg you because I'm not registered or something :/
=== mvo grumbles about freenode
[03:21] <robertj> mvo: yeah you have to register your nick on this network :(
[03:21] <jbailey> robertj: You can also turn that feature off on your account
[03:21] <robertj>  /msg nickserv register foo /msg nickserv identify foo
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[03:22] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:22] <\sh> robertj: there is no need to...adjust your settings
=== robertj tries to figure out how
[03:23] <\sh> robertj: actually I never got irc spam...only wall-ops from lilo about "there could be irc spam thats why we nagging the user"
[03:23] <robertj>  /msg nickserv help unfilterd apparently
[03:23] <robertj> ok
[03:23] <robertj> try now
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[03:28] <jane_> Reminder: All Dapper Specs owners please  go into the Spec on LP and in the 'Update Status' section add the Estimated Developer Days for implementing the spec (not taking into account your other workload, just how long that spec on it's own should take to implement). Thanks. https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable
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[03:30] <Diziet> `Please only provide an estimate if you are relatively confident in the number.'
[03:31] <jbailey> jane_: By owner, do you mean "assign" ?
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[03:31] <jane_> jbailey: yes
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[03:34] <seb128> jane_: please stop flooding this chan with your announcements :p
[03:34] <jane_> seb128: hey that was 2 announcements!
[03:34] <jane_> ;)
[03:35] <jane_> seb128: trying to catch all time zones
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[03:35] <jane_> seb128: should I ping you separately?
[03:35] <seb128> jane_: we have a wonderful -announce list for that now :)
[03:35] <seb128> jane_: no, I've my specs open atm, will do right now, maybe that will make you stop :-P
[03:38] <JaneW> seb128: ok I promise to stop
[03:38] <JaneW> seb128: and I'll use the -announce list if ppl read it and comply
=== JaneW would like to not clash with ppl this cycle ;)
[03:40] <seb128> JaneW: don't worry there is no clash :) I just think a mail to -announce would work and you would no need to put some pressure on the people here by asking every few hours 
[03:42] <JaneW> seb128: ok, I understand, and you do have a valid point
[03:43] <JaneW> au revoire
[03:44] <seb128> JaneW: BTW is there something to do to get a spec listed on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+specstable if it's not atm?
[03:44] <JaneW> seb128: yes
[03:44] <neuralis> seb128, target to release: dapper should do it, i think.
[03:45] <JaneW> seb128: is it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperGoals?
[03:45] <JaneW> cos that's the list mdz put together yesterday of what he thinks should be in, and I added those
[03:45] <seb128> JaneW: nop
[03:45] <JaneW> if it;s not there, get mdz to ok, and I can add it
[03:45] <JaneW> which is it?
[03:45] <JaneW> I'll make a note and ask mdz
[03:46] <seb128> JaneW: was wondering about rhythmbox-ipod which is medium priority and assigned to me
[03:46] <JaneW> is it likely to get done?
[03:46] <seb128> if I've some days to work on it probably
[03:47] <seb128> upstream is working on it, that's just a matter to coordinate a bit and to work with them
[03:47] <seb128> I'll probably do it as a personnal goal even if it's not listed anyway
[03:47] <HiddenWolf> seb128, you just bought an ipod? ;)
[03:47] <JaneW> ok I added it ;)
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[03:47] <seb128> HiddenWolf: not yet, but it's planned
[03:47] <seb128> JaneW: thanks! I've updated all my specs, enjoy ;)
[03:48] <\sh> gentlemen...anyone here who can provide me with a running ppc ssh login with a working dapper pbuilder or dchroot...where I can compile and test some software for dapper? it should have a working kubuntu desktop installed (inside the dchroot) and I need somehow a limited sudo access to install build-deps...  
[03:48] <JaneW> seb128: aewsome, thanks :)
[03:48] <JaneW> awesome too
[03:48] <HiddenWolf> seb128, making gnome faster just got a bit easier for you. new glib and pango releases. ;)
=== JaneW is gone... bye
[03:48] <seb128> HiddenWolf: those are not dapper material
=== mvo needs to run, bbl
[03:48] <HiddenWolf> seb128, too risky even now?
[03:48] <dholbach> bye mvo
[03:48] <seb128> HiddenWolf: no, but 2.9/2.10 is planned for after dapper
[03:49] <seb128> they don't have 6 months cycle as GNOME
[03:49] <ogra> seb128, but [WWW]  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/faster-gnome-startup is on the goals page...
[03:49] <neuralis> \
[03:50] <Kamion> sigh, live CD is busticated
[03:50] <seb128> ogra: and it has nothing to do with a new glib or gtk?
[03:50] <ogra> Kamion, yes, all arches
[03:50] <HiddenWolf> "I know that we are a bit late (with 2.13.2 already behind us), but I
[03:50] <HiddenWolf> have done a GLib 2.9.0 release today [1] , and Behdad will follow with a 
[03:50] <HiddenWolf> Pango 1.11.0 release as soon as possible."
[03:50] <ogra> seb128, but if it speeds you up ...
[03:50] <seb128> it doesn't speed anything afaik
[03:50] <ogra> ah, k
[03:50] <Kamion> ogra: I don't see any bug reports from you about it?
[03:50] <ogra> Kamion, oh, sorry
=== Kamion is getting tired of (re-)discovering all the issues for himself
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[04:27] <ogra> does anybody know in which package i find the dl module for python
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[04:30] <\sh> dl-modul? dynamic loader? 
[04:30] <ogra> yes, for dlopen etc
[04:30] <neuralis> ogra, comes bundled with python
[04:31] <ogra> >>> import dl
[04:31] <ogra> Traceback (most recent call last):
[04:31] <ogra>   File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
[04:31] <ogra> ImportError: No module named dl
[04:31] <ogra> was it renamed ? 
[04:31] <neuralis> python2.4: /usr/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/dl.so
[04:31] <ogra> hmm
[04:31] <seb128> WFM
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[04:32] <ogra> hmm, works on breezy ... but not on dapper amd64
[04:32] <Kamion> ogra: perhaps you only have python-minimal installed
[04:33] <ogra> i doubt that ...
[04:33] <Kamion> hmm, indeed dl.so isn't in python2.4_2.4.2-1_amd64.deb
[04:33] <\sh> ogra: u read the doc about dl?
[04:33] <ogra> \sh, nope
[04:34] <ogra> something amd64 specific ? 
[04:34] <\sh> http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.2/lib/module-dl.html
[04:34] <\sh> last sentence "This example was tried on a Debian GNU/Linux system, and is a good example of the fact that using this module is usually a bad alternative."
[04:34] <ogra> \sh, yes, that one i've seen
[04:34] <ogra> \sh, its not my program that uses it 
[04:35] <\sh> ogra: hmmm...
[04:35] <\sh> PLEASE ! someone has to fix evolution..this is now the 50th time today it freezes because of nothing
[04:35] <seb128> Kamion: should we be upload frozen for flight1-cd? I only do menu item changes atm but I don't know if/when you need to get the archive in sync on all the archs?
[04:36] <jsgotangco> good night =)
[04:36] <seb128> \sh: do you do quick actions? debug backtraces of the lock are welcome
[04:36] <\sh> seb128: it's the same backtrace I provided to upstream...it never changed.
[04:37] <zyga_> my dear python loving friends, I've installed libapache-mod-python2.4 and I cannot really get past the hello-world test, is this a bug or should I keep googling
[04:37] <seb128> \sh: bug number?
[04:37] <Kamion> seb128: uploads of source packages with both arch: all and arch: any binaries are potentially painful, because out-of-sync binaries can then cause uninstallability
[04:37] <Kamion> seb128: I don't want to slow people down too much by freezing the archive entirely, though
[04:37] <ogra> doko, ping 
[04:37] <\sh> seb128: 317790
[04:38] <seb128> Kamion: no, those are apps, arch any ... but that can create revision diff between arch time to get everything built, dunno if the CDs have to ship the same revisions
[04:38] <doko> ogra: speak up ;)
[04:38] <ogra> doko, any idea why dl is not in python2.4 for amd64 ? 
[04:38] <Kamion> seb128: I'm not really bothered about that for an alpha release
[04:39] <Kamion> ogra: the URL \sh pointed to says:
[04:39] <Kamion> Note: This module will not work unless sizeof(int) == sizeof(long) == sizeof(char *) If this is not the case, SystemError will be raised on import.
[04:39] <ogra> oh
[04:39] <ogra> k
[04:39] <ogra> blind me, doko: unping then ...
[04:39] <seb128> Kamion: k, thanks
[04:46] <pitti> seb128: hm, any idea where teuf usually hangs out?
[04:46] <pitti> seb128: I can't find him on Freenode or gimpnet
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[04:51] <seb128> pitti: he's on GIMPNet usually, he disconnected ~40 min ago
[04:51] <seb128> pitti: for what do you need him? 
[04:52] <pitti> seb128: he can reproduce the 'cannot eject bug #5049, and offered me to debug this together
[04:52] <seb128> ah, cool
[04:52] <seb128> I'll let you know when he's online
[04:52] <seb128> he's on #nautilus, #rhythmbox usually
[04:56] <pitti> seb128: I also mailed him, but thanks
[04:57] <seb128> k
=== pitti discovers that only one package holds libmysqlclient10 in main and goes to fix that
[05:04] <HiddenWolf> pitti, spring cleaning. ;)
[05:04] <pitti> ReducingDuplicates spec :)
[05:04] <pitti> having three different client libraries and two mysql versions in main hurts
[05:04] <ogra> HiddenWolf, its autumn here
[05:04] <HiddenWolf> ogra, duh! ;)
[05:04] <ogra> heh
[05:05] <HiddenWolf> pitti, yeah. why is that anyway?
[05:05] <pitti> well, it happens
[05:05] <seb128> pitti: what is this package?
[05:05] <pitti> seb128: libsasl2-modules-sql
[05:05] <pitti> cyrus-sasl2 source
[05:06] <seb128> oh, k
[05:06] <seb128> pfiou, not a GNOME stuff :)
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[05:15] <Riddell> Kamion: a few questions: what's the status of flying-1, what's the status of kubuntu daily CDs and should we have a kubuntu flying-1?
[05:16] <mdz> Kamion: what's busted on the live CD?
[05:16] <pitti> Hi mdz
[05:17] <ogra> mdz casper it seems
[05:17] <mdz> ogra: ...
[05:17] <mdz> ogra: did you try it?  what did you see?  any error messages?
[05:18] <ogra> something about cramfs wrong magic ...
[05:18] <ogra> and it tries to install coreutils 
[05:18] <seb128> hi mdz
[05:18] <mdz> Riddell: kubuntu daily install CD build failed with some permission errors, likewise for daily-live
[05:18] <ogra> i have to boot one again to get a precise msg... give me a moment
[05:18] <mdz> hi all
[05:19] <mdz> I would find it extremely unusual for casper to try to install coreutils
[05:19] <mdz> to say the least
[05:19] <mdz> cramfs wrong magic is a perfectly normal message from the kernel
[05:19] <ogra> its one of the mssages i saw
[05:19] <Riddell> mdz: who to poke to fix that?
[05:22] <mdz> Riddell: it might just need to be re-run
[05:22] <mdz> ask Kamion when he returns
[05:23] <lamont-away> libgd2 build-deps gnulib.  main vs universe.  sigh
[05:24] <pitti> seb128: sorry, I forgot again how to deep-debug package uninstallability; could you give me a hint about that? AFAIK you know that
[05:24] <pitti> seb128: I cannot install libmysqlclient14-dev libdb4.2-dev heimdal-dev at the same time
[05:25] <seb128> pitti: sudo apt-get install -o Debug::pkgProblemResolver=true heimdal-dev kerberos4kth-dev libmysqlclient14-dev ?
[05:25] <Kamion> mdz: kbd-chooser; it's fixed
[05:25] <pitti> seb128: ah, that's what I was looking for, thanks
[05:26] <Kamion> mdz: a block of old code removed from the end of a shell script that didn't have 'exit 0' at the end, so it exited with the return code of whatever happened to be executed last, which in this case was '[ -n "" ]  && ...'
[05:26] <pitti> seb128: ah, got it - heimdal-dev wants libdb4.1-dev, which conflicts with libdb4.2-dev
[05:26] <pitti> yay for a billion libdb versions
[05:27] <Kamion> Riddell: I asked you to fix koffice, and you said you'd do it when the C++ allocator transition was happening
[05:27] <seb128> pitti: drop 4.1 :)
[05:27] <Kamion> Riddell: koffice is part of kubuntu-desktop, therefore it is not currently possible to build working Kubuntu images
[05:27] <Kamion> I tried
[05:27] <pitti> seb128: we want to drop everything but 4.3 anyway, but I don't know how much that breaks (in terms of database compatibility)
[05:28] <seb128> I hate libdb
[05:28] <Kamion> mdz: I'm currently doing a d-i rebuild to pick up the new kbd-chooser
[05:28] <seb128> pitti: don't break my e-d-s :)
[05:28] <Riddell> Kamion: worth me fixing that now?  and any others to be fixed?
[05:28] <ogra> mdz, its console-tools, not coreutils, and indeed apt-install tries to install it ... the final error comes from main-menu:
[05:28] <pitti> seb128: it won't work with 4.3?
[05:28] <Kamion> Riddell: it's always worth fixing uninstallables. the list is in the usual place, http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/dapper_probs.html
[05:28] <mdz> ogra: see above; Kamion has fixed it
[05:29] <seb128> pitti: I've not tried, it uses 4.1 upstream, Debian uses 4.2
[05:29] <seb128> pitti: I just fear to make us incompatible with the rest of the world by using different versions
[05:29] <ogra> mdz, ah, k ... was in the other room
[05:29] <Kamion> Riddell: koffice is the only Kubuntu-relevant problem I know of
[05:31] <mdz> Kamion: what are the errors in the log about?
[05:31] <mdz> diff: /srv/cdimage.no-name-yet.com/scratch/kubuntu/tasks-previous/daily-live/dapper/boot: No such file or directory
[05:31] <mdz> etc.
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[05:33] <pryzbyj> can i tell an ubuntu user to add a debian ftp server to /e/a/sources.list ?
[05:34] <neuralis> pryzbyj, generally, no.
[05:34] <pitti> seb128: ok, so the database format is the same in 4.{1,2,3}, just the log format changed
[05:34] <pryzbyj> why?
[05:34] <yoni> Hello, I know this probably isn't the place to ask - but i'm having a really weird problem. gnome won't come up, because libpng is screwed up. i've reinstalled from repositories and the same error continues. any ideas why?
[05:34] <pryzbyj> and, what does it take for them to install my package saods9
[05:34] <seb128> yoni: try #ubuntu-desktop
[05:35] <neuralis> yoni, yes, this isn't the place to ask. try #ubuntu-desktop or file a bug or post to the ubuntu-users list.
[05:35] <pryzbyj> maybe apt-get -b source ?
[05:35] <pitti> seb128: i. e. as long as an app does not use transactions, the libdb versions are compatible
[05:35] <seb128> pryzbyj: because Ubuntu and Debian may have different package with the same versions by example which will confuse apt
[05:36] <Nafallo> pryzbyj: saods9 |    3.0.3-1 | http://localhost dapper/universe Sources
[05:36] <pryzbyj> i see; if they pin everything down, will that be sufficient to prevent breakage?
[05:36] <seb128> pitti: cool. Seems that's fine for e-d-s since Debian guy didn't have any issue to switch from 4.1 to 4.2
[05:36] <pryzbyj> i just searched packages.ubuntu.com ..
[05:36] <neuralis> pryzbyj, dapper is the next release that's being worked on
[05:36] <Nafallo> pryzbyj: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/saods9/3.0.3-1/
[05:37] <pryzbyj> oh ok
[05:37] <Kamion> mdz: oh, right. the one you cite is harmless (it just means there's no previous build), but the real error is due to a non-group-writable directory, which I've just fixed. I hate how baz is so picky about the group-writable bit
[05:37] <neuralis> pryzbyj, you can try having the user download the .deb and install it by hand. if it works, great, if not, it gets more complicated.
[05:37] <pryzbyj> what, with dpkg?
[05:37] <neuralis> yes.
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[05:38] <pryzbyj> you mean the debian .deb then, not ubuntu?
[05:38] <neuralis> yes.
[05:38] <pryzbyj> ok supposedly that failed, but i'm not confident that we're communicating well .. seems to be a language prob
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[05:39] <Nafallo> pryzbyj: if you look at the URL I sent you, you will see that your package fails to build from scratch. you might want to fix that? :-)
[05:39] <pryzbyj> yea, i see
[05:39] <neuralis> pryzbyj, you can check the versions of your package's dependencies in ubuntu vs. those in debian, which should tell you if it's possible for the ubuntu user to install your debian .deb with dpkg.
[05:40] <Nafallo> the best path would be to fix that in debian, and then the package gets auto-imported.
[05:40] <pryzbyj> yea
[05:40] <mae> mm
[05:41] <mdz> Kamion: er, yeah, pasted the wrong line. I meant the EACCES at the end
[05:41] <pryzbyj> well another upload is already on its way
[05:41] <mae> auto imported on next cycle
[05:41] <mae> not in current stable release
[05:41] <mae> :)
[05:41] <Nafallo> pryzbyj: kewl :-)
[05:42] <pryzbyj> what is: powerpc-given-back.gz
[05:43] <Kamion> mdz: could you (non-urgently) merge colin.watson@canonical.com--2005/casper--fixes--0? various small fixes to bugs I noticed while fixing the real problem
[05:43] <pryzbyj> ...powerpc-given-back.gz in the build failures
[05:43] <Kamion> pryzbyj: it means "ignore this if you aren't a buildd admin"
[05:43] <pitti> Mithrandir: ping
[05:43] <pryzbyj> renamed to such after a buildd problem is discovered?
[05:43] <Kamion> no, generally speaking it means that the build was unlucky enough to run while apt-ftparchive was running on ftp-master, and therefore got confused
[05:43] <pryzbyj> ic
[05:45] <mdz> Kamion: eeek, conflicts abound
[05:45] <Kamion> mdz: it was against the breezy branch, because to start with I thought it might be urgent; want me to update it to main?
[05:45] <mdz> Kamion: ah, that'd be better, yes
[05:46] <mdz> all the .po files conflict
[05:46] <Kamion> perhaps you should merge the breezy branch into main first ...
[05:46] <Kamion> that would probably sort it out
[05:47] <Kamion> I did a debconf-updatepo in the breezy branch which you merged there, but not in main
[05:47] <Kamion> and some translation updates
[05:47] <mdz> heh, yes. that gives me the conflicts to sort out again ;-)
[05:48] <Kamion> they're probably just in the po file headers
[05:48] <mdz> yeah
[05:48] <Diziet> Aha!  They have my bigger buffer cache now.  I shall go and fetch it.
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[05:52] <mdz> ogra: why package ltspfs and ltspfsd separately?
[05:52] <ogra> mdz, becaus upstream does that ?
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[05:53] <ogra> they are two separate sources, i can ask scott if he might merge them 
[05:54] <neuralis> ogra: i don't think it's a logical grouping, if i'm remebering correctly. fsd is what runs on each thin client, fs is what runs on the server to access the fsds, isn't it?
[05:55] <ogra> neuralis, we only talk about the source package
[05:55] <neuralis> ogra, ah. nevermind.
[05:55] <ogra> its less maintenance work to have one source that spits out two binarys
[05:56] <ogra> but i dont want to merge the sources on every upgrade, so upstream must/should do that
[05:57] <mdz> Kamion: merged.  I think I'm going to move it over to bzr now
[05:57] <Kamion> mdz: righto
[05:58] <ogra> do we need to keep the "--" naming schemes for bzr archives ? 
[05:58] <Kamion> ogra: no
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[05:58] <ogra> yay
[05:58] <Kamion> c.f. the seeds for example
[05:58] <ogra> i thought there was a policy ...
[05:59] <Kamion> bzr is more free-form about it than baz is
[05:59] <ogra> yup
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[06:06] <mdz> Kamion: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/bazaar/casper/
[06:07] <mdz> I have no idea what happens to the branch relationships during a conversion like this
[06:07] <mdz> hopefully it magically DTRT
[06:09] <Kamion> mdz: I had to deal with this for the seeds; after all the branches have converted, you need to use 'bzr fetch-ghosts' on the other branches to import their history, and you very likely want to use Kinnison's re-weave-inventory on it too (which I think has been integrated into bzrtools now)
[06:10] <ajmitch> morning
[06:11] <mdz> Kamion: so I chdir to mainline and fetch-ghosts breezy, e.g.?
[06:12] <Kamion> mdz: right; possibly the other way round too if you've merged the other way at any point
[06:12] <Kamion> oh, breezy was a branch from mainline, so definitely the other way round too
[06:12] <mdz> Kamion: hmm, it succeeded but didn't seem to do anything
[06:12] <mdz> did it both ways
[06:13] <Kamion> 'bzr log' to see whether it shows merges
[06:13] <mdz> a later rsync showed no files changed
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[06:13] <mdz> it shows merges, but apparently they were already there
[06:14] <Kamion> maybe the import found them; it won't have found merges from my branches
[06:14] <Kamion> the current bzrtools daily automatically re-weaves on fetch-ghosts; good, that saves trouble
[06:14] <mdz> Kamion: it probably was able to find them because both branches were in the same archive
[06:15] <HiddenWolf> hah, I just found a nice old ubuntu review in a national newspaper.
[06:15] <Kamion> yeah, if you imported the whole archive at once rather than one branch at a time
[06:15] <mdz> Kamion: I did it a branch at a time
[06:16] <Kamion> but no, bzr log in mainline looks wrong
[06:16] <HiddenWolf> It lists the lack of windows software as a pro. "You can browse without any worries, there are no frogs that'll jump on your desktop to promote ringtoes, or other anoying software"
[06:16] <Kamion> it should have indented sections with the logs from breezy on each merge from breezy
[06:16] <HiddenWolf> ringtones. :/
[06:16] <mdz> ok, that is consistent with fetch-ghosts not changing the branch
[06:16] <Kamion> hm, this import is buggy AFAICS
[06:16] <mdz> ii  bzr            0.6.2-0ubuntu1 bazaar-ng, the next-generation distributed v
[06:16] <mdz> ii  bzrtools       0.7+20051103-0 Collection of tools for bzr
[06:17] <Kamion> the revisions indicating a merge should have multiple parents (look in 'bzr log --show-ids')
[06:17] <Kamion> compare with e.g. any kubuntu seeds branch
[06:17] <mdz> do I need different versions?
[06:18] <ajmitch> probably the latest daily of bzr?
[06:18] <mdz> my bzr seems to be the same as dapper; bzrtools is newer from jbailey's archive
[06:18] <Kamion> I don't know; would be worth asking #bzr
[06:18] <mdz> Kamion: what did you use for converting the seeds?
[06:19] <Kamion> mdz: an installation on chinstrap
[06:19] <Kamion> which is one of lifeless' "you must use EXACTLY these versions" specials
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[06:19] <mdz> gah
[06:20] <Kamion> it could be that bzr and bzrtools just have to be a bit more in sync - as I say, check with #bzr, I'm just guessing at this point
[06:20] <mdz> yep
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[06:21] <pryzbyj> so, saods9 fails with "mktclapp: can't open "/usr/lib/tcl8.4/http2.5/http.tcl" for reading", presumably on all archs.  but that file is in package tcl8.4, which is a build dep?!
[06:22] <pryzbyj> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=%2Fusr%2Flib%2Ftcl8.4%2Fhttp2.5%2Fhttp.tcl&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=breezy&arch=i386
[06:22] <Kamion> pryzbyj: the failure I see in the latest i386 build is quite different
[06:22] <Kamion> g++ -O2 -fPIC -I/usr/include/tcl8.4 -DHAVE_SYS_UN_H -DHAVE_SYS_SHM_H -D_LARGEFIL
[06:22] <Kamion> E64_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64  -I. -I../vector -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/
[06:23] <Kamion> include/X11   -c -o widget.o widget.C
[06:23] <Kamion> ../vector/vector.h:50: error: expected ',' or '...' before '&' token
[06:23] <Kamion> ../vector/vector.h:50: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'Matrix' with no ty
[06:23] <Kamion> pe
[06:23] <pryzbyj> ok that one is fixed
[06:23] <Kamion> ../vector/vector.h:61: error: expected ',' or '...' before '&' token
[06:23] <Kamion> ../vector/vector.h:61: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of 'Matrix' with no ty
[06:23] <Kamion> pe
[06:23] <Kamion> ../vector/vector.h:70: error: 'BBox' does not name a type
[06:23] <Kamion> (excuse the paste)
[06:23] <pryzbyj> ok that one is fixed; is the other failure an early tcl problem, then?
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[06:27] <Kamion> in general you should only bother with the latest (non-trivial) logs in http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/saods9/3.0.3-1/
[06:27] <pryzbyj> ok
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[06:38] <jbailey> mdz: Eh?  How did you wind up with a mismatch?
[06:38] <mdz> jbailey: see #bzr
[06:43] <mdz> Kamion: the new branches in the same place look more reasonable
[06:44] <Riddell> Keybuk: do you know if there are plans for more advanced init scripts in ubuntu, e.g. including a status function?
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[06:45] <Kamion> mdz: what was the problem?
[06:46] <Kamion> mdz: bzr: ERROR: urllib2.HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
[06:46] <Keybuk> Riddell: dapper+1
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[06:47] <mdz> Kamion: fixed
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[06:47] <mdz> Kamion: just a "these are not the versions you're looking for"
[06:48] <Kamion> mdz: oh, so current daily of everything worked?
[06:49] <mdz> Kamion: no, current daily of everything fails unspectacularly on fetch-ghosts
[06:49] <mdz> apparently things are complicated
[06:49] <Kamion> what versions should I be using if I want to do imports, then?
[06:49] <mdz> I was not able to learn the answer to that question
[06:49] <Keybuk> whatever is in lifeless' home directory, of course
[06:49] <Keybuk> that's always the right answer
[06:49] <Keybuk> to any question
[06:49] <Keybuk> apparently
[06:50] <Keybuk> oops, M-x cynical-mode
[06:50] <Kamion> mdz: what did *you* use? :)
[06:50] <Kamion> mdz: looks like you still need to fetch-ghosts
[06:50] <seb128> Keybuk: 
[06:50] <seb128> $ get-source pmount
[06:50] <seb128> /usr/bin/hct: Sorry, an unhandled server fault occurred: error
[06:51] <seb128> Keybuk: is that a known issue?
[06:51] <pitti_> Keybuk: oi, with your reference package? :)
[06:51] <seb128> pitti_: seems it does that with every package for me
[06:51] <mdz> Kamion: revno 29 has all sorts of nice indented merges
[06:51] <Kamion> mdz: did you push?
[06:51] <mdz> Kamion: I think in the end I used bzr.integration from chinstrap for both import and fetch-ghosts
[06:52] <Keybuk> seb128: no, not known
[06:52] <Keybuk> I'll look into it
[06:52] <seb128> Keybuk: thanks
[06:52] <mdz> Kamion: have pushed again for good measure
[06:53] <Kamion> mdz: no shiny indentation love here
[06:54] <mdz> Kamion: bzr log -r 29 has no love?
[06:54] <Kamion> mdz: bzr.integration on chinstrap will probably require the reweave rubbish, FYI - use 'bzr fix' from bzrtools daily
[06:54] <Kamion> mdz: main or breezy?
[06:54] <mdz> Kamion: main
[06:54] <mdz> that's the breezy->main merge I did today
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[06:55] <Kamion> mdz: fresh get with no HTTP proxy, no love
[06:59] <Keybuk> pitti_: ?
[06:59] <pitti_> Keybuk: !
[06:59] <pitti_> what's up?
[07:00] <pitti_> hrm, an underscore again? *grumpf*
[07:00] <Keybuk> pitti_: so, what's the expected breakage with 2.6.15 ... I've not been expecting (or experiencing) any?
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[07:01] <pitti> Keybuk: the whole gnome desktop just does not react to hotplug events any more
[07:01] <pitti> Keybuk: I did not yet wasted thoughts about this
[07:01] <Keybuk> that's odd, sounds much more like a hal bug
[07:01] <Keybuk> assuming hal has a udev rule? :)
[07:01] <Keybuk> or is it simply that hal isn't being run
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[07:03] <Keybuk> but I do have a (very crackful) /etc/udev/rules.d/*hal*
[07:04] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, thinking about it, hal and pmount actually work
[07:04] <Keybuk> so is probably just a gnome-vfs bug then
[07:04] <seb128> Mithrandir: the hplip menu item is still around with your change
[07:04] <Keybuk> *giggles*
[07:04] <pitti> Keybuk: i. e. devices are mounted, but gnome does not react to it
[07:04] <seb128> iz gtk bog?
[07:04] <Keybuk> definite gtk bog
[07:04] <Keybuk> though that hal.rules file is classic
[07:04] <Keybuk> ENV{SEQNUM}=="[0-9] *" ?! ... of course the event has a sequence number
[07:04] <pitti> Keybuk: I don't now, and until the basic kernel/udev/hotplug stuff is sorted out, we should just leave it alone IMHO
[07:05] <Keybuk> ENV{UDEVD_EVENT}=="1" ?! ... what other kind where you expecting
[07:05] <Keybuk> though the classic is:
[07:05] <Keybuk> ACTION="remove"
[07:05] <Keybuk> I suspect they _really_ wanted ACTION=="remove"
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[07:05] <Keybuk> anyhoo, yes, we probably shouldn't debug it too hard until new udev and kernel are ready
[07:06] <pitti> yep
[07:06] <pitti> that guy uses dapper, he should share the pain :)
[07:06] <Keybuk> in particular, that should be something far more like RUN+="socket:/org/freedesktop/hal"
[07:06] <Keybuk> instead of forking things
[07:07] <Kamion> new install/live CDs up, may stand a better chance of working now
[07:07] <Kamion> please test and report problems to me
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[07:12] <ogra> sigh ... 48 minutes for a seed push
[07:14] <Kamion> ogra: how are you pushing?
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[07:14] <Kamion> and what version of bzr?
[07:14] <ogra> i tried a simple bzr push first ... but that timed out eery time, now i'm using it with sftp url 
[07:15] <ogra> which at least doesnt time out
[07:15] <ogra> the current one from jbauleys archive
[07:15] <ogra> jbaileys
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[07:24] <seb128> jbailey: did you figure what is wrong with freecell?
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[07:24] <jbailey> seb128: I haven't.  I've noticed that it's the only gnome-game that seems to use threading though. =)
[07:24] <jbailey> And I've also learned that threading in Scheme kinda scares me.
[07:25] <elmo> bmonty_laptop: filelight won't sync; different orig.tar.gz's
[07:25] <xhaker> jbailey, gnometris doesnt load here
[07:25] <siretart> elmo: without wanting to annoy you, but is there any problem with my key?
[07:26] <xhaker> jbailey, (gnometris:19549): Gtk-WARNING **: This process is currently running setuid or setgid.
[07:26] <jbailey> xhaker: What's the bug number?
[07:26] <xhaker> sorry for the bug report here
[07:26] <xhaker> don't think i opened one
[07:26] <jbailey> xhaker: It's all good. =)
[07:26] <elmo> crimsun: same problem with wpasupplicant; different orig.tar.gz's
[07:26] <seb128> jbailey: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-games/+bug/4537 .. weird
[07:27] <jbailey> xhaker: If you could please, I see the same behaviour, and I can confirm it for you.
[07:27] <elmo> siretart: I'm getting to it, sorry I'm still backlogged from trying to catch up after ubz
[07:27] <jbailey> xhaker: But this appears to be a SUID problem rather than a threading-in-scheme problem.
[07:27] <bmonty_laptop> elmo: ok, i'll do a merge debdiff then, thanks
[07:27] <xhaker> jbailey, just figured it was the same package you were working on
[07:27] <siretart> elmo: okay. I was just a bit confused, no problem
[07:28] <seb128> jbailey, xhaker: we have a bug about this. That's GTK which doesn't like the setgid games (which is used to write scores)
[07:28] <jbailey> xhaker: For me, the problem is in Freecell, which is part of Aisleriot.
[07:28] <seb128> different issue
[07:29] <xhaker> seb128, is the bug already reported?
[07:29] <xhaker> the setgid one?
[07:29] <mdz> jbailey: any reason bzr-integration doesn't provide bzr?
[07:29] <seb128> xhaker: it is
[07:30] <seb128> xhaker: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19668
[07:30] <jbailey> mdz: Nope.  Lemme double check with lifeless to make sure he has no objections to that.
[07:30] <xhaker> seb128, thanks
[07:30] <jbailey> lifeless: (Whenever you wake up, dear)
[07:30] <seb128> xhaker: np
[07:32] <jbailey> seb128: Found the problem with sol.  Lemme fix. =)
[07:32] <seb128> jbailey: cool. What is it?
[07:32] <jbailey> seb128: Guile not compiled with thread support on ppc, but is on i386.
[07:33] <seb128> ah, NOTGNOME, cool :)
[07:33] <seb128> jbailey: do you have a 5.10 ppc?
[07:33] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-applets/+bug/4602 mention the same kind of issue and the guy is not using dapper
[07:33] <seb128> ups
[07:33] <seb128> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-games/+bug/4537
[07:33] <jbailey> seb128: My ppc box is running dapper atm, I could do a chroot if I needed to, or dust off the other ppc box.
[07:34] <seb128> don't bother
[07:34] <seb128> I guess I can get the information from the build log
[07:38] <Amaranth> yay, alacarte is in :)
[07:39] <seb128> thanks to you !
[07:44] <jbailey> seb128: Oh ugh.
[07:44] <jbailey> seb128: So to run freecell I have to implement quickthreads on ppc?
[07:44] <jbailey> You clearly hate me. =)
[07:44] <Amaranth> btw, has anyone used the "browser appliance" with vmware player?
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[07:57] <Amaranth> seb128: so is the rest of the stuff to go with it (gnome-panel patch, i think) waiting on flight 1
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[08:04] <lamont-away> sigh.  libgtk-java needs -ffunction-sections on hppa.  grumble
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[08:14] <mdz> Kamion: have you already done a new livecd build with the new d-i?
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[08:19] <ifvoid> hey!
[08:20] <ifvoid> is anything wrong with nl.archive.ubuntu.com?  apt-get complains about an invalid signature
[08:20] <Riddell> Kamion: new koffice is in the archive new
[08:23] <Nafallo> ifvoid: you should probably ask the admin, not us :-). this channel is for the development of Ubuntu.
[08:24] <ifvoid> but the key didn;t change recnetly or so?
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[08:26] <Amaranth> no
[08:27] <Amaranth> ifvoid: usually you get key errors when the mirror is updating, try again in 10 minutes
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[08:28] <ifvoid> ok thanks
[08:28] <Diziet> Excellent.  New server disk works; just need to pvmove everything now which I can do with everyhing working.  And my workstation has 3x the RAM.
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[08:29] <zyga> uh
[08:29] <zyga> guys do you think it's fine for gam_server to eat 56% of ram+swap?
[08:29] <zyga> It's still running if anyone wants to have a look
[08:30] <zyga> it currently eats 489MB of real memory
[08:30] <dholbach> have a nice evening
[08:31] <xhaker> you too dholbach 
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[08:37] <seb128> zyga: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13449
[08:42] <zyga> seb128: thanks alot
[08:42] <seb128> np
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[08:42] <zyga> seb128: is it possible to attach valgrind to a running process? 
[08:43] <zyga> (I never tried anything like that)
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[08:43] <zyga> so far I SIGSTOPped that memory hog
[08:44] <seb128> not sure, you can try
[08:44] <zyga> checking
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[08:47] <zyga> seb128: do you think this could be caused by the same mechanism that was present in the malloc example I showed you before?
[08:48] <seb128> maybe
[08:48] <Amaranth> wow the only thing in my system tools is system monitor, good job
[08:49] <Amaranth> oh, everything else is just hidden
[08:50] <Kamion> mdz: yes
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[08:54] <Riddell> Kamion: so what's the status of ubuntu flying and should we try for a kubuntu flying?
[08:54] <Kamion> Riddell: ok, thanks, kubuntu daily running now
[08:55] <Kamion> Riddell: (a) flight not flying :-) (b) Ubuntu install/live are ready for testing but tests incomplete (c) if you can coordinate the required testing, sure
[08:55] <Amaranth> is there a breezy mini iso?
[08:56] <Kamion> Amaranth: archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-*/images/current/...
[08:59] <Amaranth> err, those aren't isos
[09:00] <Kamion> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/breezy/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso certainly is
[09:00] <Amaranth> oh, netboot
[09:01] <Kamion> mdz: do you mind *terribly* much if the live CD boot text for Flight 1 is wrong (i.e. looking like the install CD) as long as it's fixed afterwards?
[09:01] <Kamion> I've fixed it but it'll take a d-i upload
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[09:04] <Diablo-D3> Hey guys.
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[09:04] <Diablo-D3> Why does universe contain helix-player?
[09:04] <Diablo-D3> or rather, why does it include the completely useless stripped down helix-player?
[09:05] <crimsun> it's not useless, and this is a MOTU question
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[09:07] <mdz> Kamion: I don't mind at all
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[09:23] <Kamion> i386/live pass
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[09:27] <Kamion> Kubuntu live filesystem building
[09:28] <Kamion> Riddell: Kubuntu daily 20051118.2 should be good for you to test
[09:28] <HWolf> Diablo-D3, stripped of non-free codecs.
[09:29] <Diablo-D3> HWolf: yes, we had this discussion
[09:29] <Riddell> Kamion: great, thanks
[09:29] <Diablo-D3> HWolf: in #ubuntu-motu I mean
[09:29] <Diablo-D3> HWolf: its just that why is helix-player even packaged when its totally useless, and redundant
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[09:30] <Amaranth> HWolf: it's not stripped, afaik, it just doesn't come with any codecs
[09:30] <Diablo-D3> when I said stripped, I meant from upstream
[09:30] <Diablo-D3> helix contains nothing useful.
[09:30] <Diablo-D3> to make it useful, you need to use realplayer instead
[09:30] <Amaranth> Diablo-D3: It's not getting removed, end of discussion.
[09:31] <HWolf> helix upstream doesn't have real support either, afaik.
[09:31] <Diablo-D3> HWolf: *I just said that*
[09:31] <Amaranth> nope
[09:31] <Amaranth> helix + real codecs = realplayer 10
[09:31] <Diablo-D3> Amaranth: this is what was wrong with debian imo
[09:31] <Diablo-D3> too much useless shit packaged
[09:32] <Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Almost of the packages come directly from debian. And this channel has many debian maintainers in it...
[09:32] <Amaranth> err, almost all
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[09:32] <Diablo-D3> aaand just because debian packages it doesnt mean we should inherit it.
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[09:32] <Amaranth> It's automatic.
[09:33] <Diablo-D3> maybe it shouldnt be?
[09:33] <Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Go through every single package in main, restricted, universe, and multiverse and for every package you think shouldn't be there write a paragraph detailing why.
[09:33] <Amaranth> Diablo-D3: If you think that will take too long you know why it's automatic.
[09:34] <Diablo-D3> I cant do it for all
[09:35] <Amaranth> Someone would have to.
[09:35] <Diablo-D3> simply on the fact that I dont use all
[09:35] <Kamion> one useful approach might be to package the extra codecs for multiverse
[09:35] <Amaranth> You can't do it all, that's the answer for why it's automatic.
[09:35] <Diablo-D3> Kamion: doesnt work that way afaik
[09:36] <Kamion> Diablo-D3: then fix that :)
[09:36] <Diablo-D3> Kamion: helix just cant use rp codecs
[09:36] <Amaranth> Kamion: The only codecs I know of are the real ones and you can't make them work in helix.
[09:36] <Diablo-D3> Kamion: cant, its rigged upstream for it not towork
[09:36] <Diablo-D3> however, other players can use realplayer codecs 
[09:36] <Diablo-D3> such as mplayer
[09:36] <Kamion> seems like it'd still be useful for freely-encoded content ...
[09:37] <Amaranth> mplayer uses the win32 realplayer codecs
[09:37] <Amaranth> which are illegal to distribute, have, etc
[09:38] <thierry> seb128 : you told me to not force the icon extension (for absolute icon path bug) but check this one https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/lbreakout2/+bug/3242
[09:38] <xhaker> Kamion, any changes in d-i from daily 14 to daily 18?
[09:38] <thierry> seb128: it got fixed and it forces the extension
[09:38] <Kamion> "proprietary software does more" isn't a reason to remove free software, even if it's not as capable yet. If we followed that argument to its logical conclusion there would be no Ubuntu at all.
[09:38] <Kamion> xhaker: daily d-i builds incorporate newer versions of various udebs
[09:38] <Diablo-D3> Kamion: both kde and gnome's default video player can play everything helix does
[09:38] <Kamion> they're mostly automatic
[09:38] <Diablo-D3> Kamion: and does it in a saner way
[09:38] <Kamion> xhaker: see individual changelogs (or dapper-changes) for details
[09:39] <Amaranth> Diablo-D3: gedit and kate and vim and emacs all do the same thing
[09:39] <Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Which one should we keep?
[09:39] <seb128> thierry: it doesn't mean it's optimal
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> vim of course.
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> ;)
[09:39] <thierry> seb128 : I know but should someone reopen it for that?
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> Amaranth: actually, $gnome_default, $kde_default, and vim.
[09:39] <xhaker> Kamion, daily 14 seemed to "forget" to depmod -a at the first boot
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> (yes, I hate emacs)
[09:40] <Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Exactly, this is your opinion.
[09:40] <Amaranth> Diablo-D3: Someone might like helix as it is.
[09:40] <Amaranth> crimsun said he uses it
[09:40] <thierry> seb128 : like changing the last patch and resending it? (thing I could do) But I can't reopen it...
[09:40] <Diablo-D3> Amaranth: I was kidding, btw
[09:40] <Kamion> xhaker: hardware detection in dapper d-i before 20051114/15 or so was basically broken
[09:40] <Diablo-D3> Amaranth: all four are package worthy
[09:41] <Kamion> debian-installer (20051026ubuntu2) dapper; urgency=low
[09:41] <Kamion>   * build/pkg-lists/base: Switch back to module-init-tools-udeb for now;
[09:41] <Kamion>     busybox modprobe doesn't support all the options we need and doesn't
[09:41] <Kamion>     seem to have good enough alias and blacklist support.
[09:41] <Kamion>  -- Colin Watson <cjwatson@ubuntu.com>  Tue, 15 Nov 2005 13:01:24 +0000
[09:41] <Kamion> xhaker: ^--
[09:41] <seb128> thierry: ask to bmonty_laptop on IRC
[09:42] <Amaranth> btw, is it bad that the 2.6.15 kernels in dapper can't seem to use scsi drives?
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[09:42] <thierry> bmonty_laptop : could we reopen malone bug 3242 ?
[09:43] <xhaker> Kamion, do you think i should get flight1 then? i've installed daily 14.. i don't think it would change much besides depmoding?
[09:45] <seb128> Mortas_: around?
[09:45] <slomo> elmo: ping?
[09:45] <HWolf> Amaranth, it'd think so.
[09:45] <Mortas_> seb128: yep
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[09:46] <mdz> xhaker: by 'first boot', do you mean from the CD or the hard disk?
[09:46] <seb128> Mortas: I've comment on your UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath, this page is an error (no offense)
[09:47] <xhaker> mdz, the first boot from the harddisk before installing the rest of the packages..
[09:47] <Mortas> I'm not easily offended, so don't worry
[09:47] <seb128> Mortas: that should be UniverseDesktopFile, no reason to limit the fix a one single point where you can as well run the validator and make everything conform
[09:47] <xhaker> it complained right at the begining that it couldn't load vesafb module.. i use vga=792
[09:47] <mdz> xhaker: in that case, that's normal
[09:47] <mdz> depmod doesn't run at boot anymore in dapper
[09:48] <xhaker> mdz,i think it's just modules.dep that inst generated
[09:48] <xhaker> yes
[09:48] <xhaker> that
[09:48] <mdz> xhaker: in the initramfs or in userland?
[09:48] <seb128> making the patch, filing the bug, uploading the fix, sending upstream is the work. So as well changing the other point when you do this
[09:48] <Mortas> seb128: good point, at the time I only ran into that one issue but making it a page for multiple issues is always good ofcourse
[09:48] <mdz> in either case, it's generated long before boot time
[09:48] <mdz> xhaker: if you saw an error message, we need to see an exact copy of it
[09:48] <seb128> Mortas: other point, your example force the extension which seems to be wrong
[09:49] <seb128> Mortas: a theme variant can have .jpg or .png or .svg
[09:49] <seb128> filename speaking
[09:49] <seb128> should be "filename"
[09:49] <seb128> no "filename.jpg"
[09:49] <xhaker> mdz, something along the lines of "Couldn't locate module (/usr/lib......./vesafb.ko)"
[09:49] <xhaker> mdz, it's the first thing that showed up after grub
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[09:50] <ogra_live> mdz, i386/live is fine ...
[09:50] <mdz> ogra_live: cheers
[09:50] <Amaranth> that reminds me, i need to figure out how to make pyxdg only use an xpm if it can't find an svg
[09:50] <Mortas> seb128: I've changed the example
[09:50] <ogra_live> next ppc ...
[09:50] <seb128> Mortas: thanks
[09:51] <thierry> seb128, Mortas : I'm the one that did about every patch that here linked on that page, and seb128 told me all that so all the patch listed are ok (well I think)
[09:52] <thierry> Martas_
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[10:00] <ogra> mdz, ppc live doesnt boot... i try a new media ..
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[10:06] <bmonty_laptop> thierry: you can reopen #3242 if you want, please make sure you put a reason why
[10:07] <minghua> hi bmonty_laptop, got your message
[10:07] <bmonty_laptop> hey minghua 
[10:07] <minghua> bmonty_laptop: the new debdiff looks good, just one nitpicking: you probably want to keep the old ubuntu changelogs
[10:08] <minghua> bmonty_laptop: so people have the context for the ubuntu specific chagnes
[10:08] <bmonty_laptop> minghua: good point
[10:09] <bmonty_laptop> I'll change that, plus I'm not sure if it is necessary, but I'm interested in some other folks looking at the rationale to not bring in the libfam0c102 name
[10:10] <thierry> bmonty_laptop : I don't have the right to reopen the bug, and my reason is that the applied patch forces the extension, it shouldn't
[10:11] <bmonty_laptop> thierry: the debdiff removes the absolute path
[10:15] <thierry> bmonty_laptop : yes but it force the extension look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath
[10:16] <thierry> bmonty_laptop : it shouldn't have a .png or .xpm
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[10:17] <bmonty_laptop> thierry: ah, ok...I see.
[10:17] <bmonty_laptop> I think we should open a new bug for that, the absolute path issue is fixed
[10:18] <thierry> mmm ok then going to do it
[10:18] <bmonty_laptop> thanks for showing me that
[10:18] <thierry> np
[10:21] <thierry> bmonty_laptop : ok but the patch is not applied on the breezy source... so where do I get the source to make the change? and how?
[10:23] <thierry> bmonty_laptop : it would be far more simpler to just take the last patch, take off the extension, and resend it
[10:24] <bmonty_laptop> thierry: the patch won't be applied against breezy, only dapper
[10:25] <bmonty_laptop> you can use "apt-get source lbreakout2" to get the source package though
[10:25] <thierry> ok so I get the source of breezy?
[10:25] <bmonty_laptop> I made the change to the patch, I'll upload it
[10:25] <bmonty_laptop> thierry: it depends on what is in your sources.list
[10:27] <thierry> bmonty_laptop : ok so please close bug 4619 (sorry I opened it too fast ;)  )
[10:29] <sivang> mdz: I don't mean bug, but have my email got to you eventually? (re: HomeUserBackup)
[10:30] <Kamion> xhaker: that's a known usplash bug, I believe; it hardcodes module paths which have changed
[10:30] <bmonty_laptop> thierry: actually, I think it is better to have a new bug since I'll have to do the debdiff against the source package in dapper
[10:31] <thierry> bmonty_laptop : will you send the patch to the bug or do you want me to fix it?
[10:31] <thierry> bmonty_laptop : and is it better to send a .debdiff or a .patch? 
[10:32] <bmonty_laptop> thierry: you can fix it if you want, and it is easier for people to sponsor your upload if you send a debdiff
[10:32] <Kamion> xhaker: I've made a note of it for the errata; I think vga16fb usplash still works fine
[10:33] <bmonty_laptop> thierry: we should move over to #ubuntu-motu
[10:33] <Kamion> xhaker: I'm impressed that you got a working install out of 20051114, but given that you did, you should just be able to upgrade as normal
[10:34] <ogra> Kamion, did you test ppc/live already ? i dont seem to be able to boot it ...
[10:36] <Kamion> ogra: I've burned it, will test in a moment
[10:36] <ogra> ah
[10:36] <ogra> it was a media problem
[10:37] <Kamion> ok, good start :)
[10:37] <ogra> this ancient g4 doesnt eat CDRW
=== Kamion goes to try it
[10:37] <ogra> a normal CD-R works now
[10:37] <Pygi> ah :/
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[10:40] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync kvirc from unstable, ubuntu override ok
[10:45] <ogra> Kamion, mdz, ppc/live is good ...
[10:45] <mdz> splendiferous
[10:45] <mdz> sivang: it's in my queue
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[10:52] <thierry> seb128 : is it the end of the world if I sent .patch file to solve bugs in malone?
[10:52] <janimo> which are the packages that bugzilla does not know about? It does not autocomplete libgnutls-dev, and if entered by hand it says 'unknown component'
[10:53] <seb128> thierry: no :)
[10:53] <Kamion> powerpc/live pass until bad sectors on the cloop killed it (I blame the media)
[10:53] <thierry> seb128 : but is it better to have .debdiff files?
[10:53] <Kamion> i386/server fail, no preseed files; will have to respin install CDs
[10:54] <Kamion> (will kill Kubuntu CDs too)
[10:54] <Kamion> Riddell: ^--
[10:55] <seb128> thierry:  no, better to have a patch for the desktop file so it can be sent upstream
[10:55] <Riddell> Kamion: so current CDs are scrap?
[10:56] <Kamion> Riddell: install CDs are, I'm afraid; live CDs should be OK
[10:56] <Kamion> (they don't rely on preseeding)
[10:56] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[10:57] <Kamion> I'm fixing the issue now
[10:58] <thierry> seb128 : bmonty_laptop just told me it was better to have a .debdiff ...
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[11:00] <seb128> thierry: depending of the people I guess, .patch/.diff is fine for this, don't bother
[11:02] <Kamion> hmm, weird, I get cdebconf-priority's question displayed to me just before reboot into second stage
[11:02] <Kamion> it's harmless but odd
[11:02] <thierry> seb128 : ok
[11:03] <Kamion> tempted to errata it
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[11:06] <Kamion> I think our busybox init patches might have slowed it down enough that init doesn't get around to SIGTERMing main-menu before it executes the next menu item
[11:08] <seb128> 'night
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[11:09] <ogra_live> mdz, Kamion, amd64/live is good to go ... all livecds were fine here
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[11:12] <mdz> Kamion: I've got a full set of CDs locally now; which need testing?
[11:12] <mdz> ah, will wait for the next build I guess
[11:13] <xhaker> Kamion, that cdebconf showed up to me but it rebooted right after. heh
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[11:14] <Kamion> xhaker: right, that's the bug - it's harmless if annoying. fixing
[11:14] <xhaker> and other prompts looked odd/different from breezy
[11:14] <xhaker> like the Timezone now it displays a tinier prompt..
[11:15] <Kamion> that's intentional; tzsetup has been significantly revamped and in many cases now will not prompt at all
[11:16] <Kamion> mdz: live CDs are still worth testing
[11:16] <Kamion> cdebconf-priority appearance fixed upstream now
[11:16] <Kamion> xhaker: different isn't a bug but actively odd might be. :-)
[11:16] <mdz> xhaker: did you sort out your vesafb issue?
[11:16] <Kamion> mdz: iz usplash bug
[11:17] <Kamion> oh, no, maybe not, not with 2.6.12
[11:17] <Kamion> hmm, ignore me
[11:17] <xhaker> it does work as i can see the boot process in a nice resolution.. but usplash no longer works (tm)
[11:17] <xhaker> :P
[11:17] <mdz> xhaker: could be http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19675
[11:17] <xhaker> gonna check
[11:17] <Kamion> but why would a 2.6.15 issue affect current installs?
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[11:18] <xhaker> mdz, the kernel is still 2.6.12 in installs
[11:19] <xhaker> is that "bug" present in that too?
[11:19] <Kamion> not AFAIK, we'd have noticed it in breezy
[11:20] <lifeless> jbailey: fine by me
[11:22] <mdz> xhaker: if you're talking about a dapper daily install, then your problem is something else
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[11:26] <sivang> mdz: k, thanks. sorry for bugging.
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[11:33] <zyga> night guys
[11:33] <zyga> night girls
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[11:39] <Kamion> new Ubuntu install CDs up
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[11:43] <mdz> fetching
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[11:52] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu ones next?
[11:53] <Kamion> Riddell: they're building as I type
[11:53] <Riddell> Kamion: great.  and what's the status of the live CDs?
[11:53] <sistpoty> infinity: around?
[11:54] <Kamion> Riddell: they seem OK for Ubuntu, although I haven't checked amd64 yet
[11:54] <Kamion> Riddell: Kubuntu live CDs are (as before) fine for you to test
[11:54] <Riddell> Kamion: there's nothing at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/
[11:54] <Kamion> uh
[11:55] <Kamion> hmm, maybe that ran afoul of earlier problems, sorry. OK, I'll rebuild shortly
[11:55] <Riddell> cool
[11:55] <Kamion> too ... much ... stuff ... to ... coordinate
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