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| === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : gendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 18 Nov 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 22 Nov 22:00 UTC: Community Council | 23 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 24 Nov 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | ||
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| jsgotangco | mm let's wait a bit before we start | 02:53 |
|---|---|---|
| jsgotangco | are we set? | 02:57 |
| jjesse | i am :0 | 02:57 |
| jsgotangco | great let's aim for quality then | 02:58 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 02:58 |
| kjcole | Here physically and virtually, but on my schedule, not mentally. ;-) | 02:58 |
| jjesse | is it too early to be here mentally kjcole | 02:58 |
| jjesse | ? | 02:58 |
| jsgotangco | kjcole: are you on campus? | 02:58 |
| kjcole | Yep. | 02:58 |
| dholbach | do you have the agenda somewhere? | 02:59 |
| jsgotangco | ok | 02:59 |
| jsgotangco | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda | 02:59 |
| jsgotangco | who's here? | 02:59 |
| jjesse | me | 02:59 |
| === jsgotangco -> Jerome Gotangco | ||
| kjcole | jsgotangco: Perhaps I should say I'm on MY campus: Gallaudet University... | 02:59 |
| === dholbach is Daniel Holbach | ||
| kjcole | kjcole = Kevin Cole | 03:00 |
| Treenaks | kjcole: -color please | 03:00 |
| === bshumate is Brian Shumate | ||
| jsgotangco | err anyone else? | 03:01 |
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| jsgotangco | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda is our agenda | 03:02 |
| dholbach | mdke told me, that my attendance was required regarding the future packaging of the ubuntu docs? | 03:02 |
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| jsgotangco | i believe so | 03:02 |
| jsgotangco | hmm what's wrong with bhuvan | 03:02 |
| jsgotangco | anyways | 03:02 |
| jsgotangco | dholbach: are you in charge of the packaging now? | 03:02 |
| dholbach | yes | 03:03 |
| jsgotangco | or will you be mentoring someone? | 03:03 |
| jsgotangco | awesome... | 03:03 |
| dholbach | i had a brief look at the complete source of the svn, but was not able to figure it out yet | 03:03 |
| dholbach | i will investigate a bit more at the weekend | 03:03 |
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| jsgotangco | okay bhuvan seems to be having problems on connecting | 03:03 |
| === Riddell is JonathanRiddell | ||
| dholbach | regarding the one-source-package-story: i heard it somewhere and thought it was decided on already | 03:03 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: you ok now? | 03:04 |
| bhuvan | yeah | 03:04 |
| bhuvan | yes | 03:04 |
| jsgotangco | ok let's tackle 1 and 3 first since bhuvan will be leaving soon | 03:04 |
| bhuvan | any feedbacks/suggestions about w.u.c/ServerGuide ? | 03:04 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan current wrote the spec for the server guide | 03:04 |
| jsgotangco | its located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide | 03:04 |
| jsgotangco | i haven't read it yet but it looks pretty comprehensive based on the TOC | 03:04 |
| bhuvan | today i wish to discuss about the topics, finalize couple of terminologies we may use in our serverguide | 03:04 |
| bhuvan | ok | 03:05 |
| dholbach | bhuvan: with whom do you work on this? | 03:05 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: do you plan to diverge from MAIN repos? | 03:05 |
| jjesse | bhuvan: just scanned it and it looks good | 03:05 |
| bhuvan | jsgotango, no | 03:05 |
| jsgotangco | ok so its all MAIN stuff then | 03:05 |
| bhuvan | dholbach, it's based on rhel admin guide | 03:05 |
| bhuvan | jsgotango, yes | 03:05 |
| bhuvan | jjesse, ok | 03:06 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: who are you working with at the moment, do you have a draft already? | 03:06 |
| === jsgotangco just svn up | ||
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, no | 03:06 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: can we know your whole name if you don't mind? | 03:06 |
| bhuvan | i do've a template at http://puggy.symonds.net/~bhuvan/ubuntu-doc/build/generic/serverguide/C/ | 03:06 |
| dholbach | bhuvan: you might want to talk to fabbione, because he works on the server edition on the distro side | 03:07 |
| bhuvan | Bhuvaneswaran Arumugam | 03:07 |
| bhuvan | dholbach, sure | 03:07 |
| jsgotangco | shit my seat just fell | 03:07 |
| dholbach | bhuvan: and infinity, but i'm not quite sure | 03:07 |
| bhuvan | dholbach, ok | 03:07 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 03:08 |
| jsgotangco | anyways | 03:08 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan has been contributing a lot with patches and stuff | 03:08 |
| bhuvan | and one page template at, http://puggy.symonds.net/~bhuvan/ubuntu-doc/build/generic/serverguide/C/serverguide-all.html | 03:08 |
| jsgotangco | i'd like to request svn access for him... | 03:08 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: what else do you need to help you on the project? | 03:09 |
| jsgotangco | resources, etc.? | 03:09 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, ok .. but, before that let me discuss about the terminologies we may use in our server guide | 03:09 |
| jsgotangco | okay | 03:10 |
| jsgotangco | shoot | 03:10 |
| kjcole | A question from someone new to the whole process: I keep seeing svn. bzr/launchpad not ready enough for prime time? (Or am I so new to this that the question doesn't make sense?) | 03:10 |
| bhuvan | first, the editor. the choices are vi/vim/emacs. i prefer vim | 03:10 |
| ogra | i dont think we ship a plain vi | 03:11 |
| jsgotangco | kjcole: we've been using svn from the very start, a bzr transition will take time and planning and we'll need the lp team's help | 03:11 |
| Riddell | kjcole: at the time svn was set up baz had a steep learning curve. bzr should be really good now but I think this cycle will stick with svn | 03:11 |
| dholbach | bhuvan: what do you mean? like rteferring to an editor in examples and such? | 03:11 |
| jsgotangco | kjcole: but we're going there | 03:11 |
| jsgotangco | how about nano? | 03:11 |
| jsgotangco | its pretty easy enough even for newbies imo | 03:11 |
| ogra | at least that the default | 03:11 |
| kjcole | I was going to mention nano... | 03:11 |
| Riddell | bhuvan: quanta, kate and presumably gedit are also choices | 03:12 |
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| jsgotangco | Riddell: for servers? heh | 03:12 |
| ogra | Riddell, depends if you want to write the guide for servers with GUI | 03:12 |
| bhuvan | dholbach, i meant the editor we use to configure | 03:12 |
| bhuvan | dholbach, ie.. to edit conf files | 03:12 |
| bhuvan | Riddel, server wont have X. so we cant rely on gedit | 03:12 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: i'd go for nano, its pretty easy for beginners | 03:12 |
| ogra | jsgotangco, for edubuntu (a server distro) it would be appropriate | 03:12 |
| dholbach | i would say "edit bla file" and maybe in the first paragraph mention howtos for the editors *shrug* | 03:13 |
| kjcole | (If nano's in the mix a "-bkw" would be a useful default/alias somewhere.) | 03:13 |
| jsgotangco | vi/vim is like a chapter on linux in a nutshell :) | 03:13 |
| jsgotangco | and probably make a back up of the default conf files first before editing.. | 03:13 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, ok | 03:14 |
| Riddell | bhuvan: I would assume nano then but have small chapters for vim and emacs as well | 03:14 |
| bhuvan | dholbach, i prefer to be specific with the editor to use | 03:14 |
| dholbach | yeah, that was merely my own opinion ;) | 03:14 |
| bhuvan | dholbach, ok | 03:14 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: maybe mention that in the beginning that you're going to use nano but you're free to use any editor... | 03:14 |
| jsgotangco | at least you'll have a scope/limitation on the editor part | 03:14 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, ok | 03:14 |
| bhuvan | ok | 03:15 |
| jsgotangco | k anything else bhuvan? | 03:15 |
| bhuvan | next, package manager | 03:15 |
| bhuvan | choices are apt-get/aptitude. i prefer apt-get | 03:15 |
| jjesse | it would make sense on the server to use apt-get, no gui is instaleld by default | 03:16 |
| ogra | me too, but aptitude is far more beginner friendly | 03:16 |
| kjcole | (Sorry: -Bkw (-B=backup, -k=kill from cursor to line end instead of entire line, and -w=no unsolicited wordwrapping.) | 03:16 |
| bhuvan | jjesse, i agree | 03:16 |
| jsgotangco | aptitude at least has a gui of sorts | 03:16 |
| jjesse | why is aptitude considered more newbie friendly? when i started using linux it was debian and i learned apt-get | 03:17 |
| bhuvan | jjesse, me too.. | 03:17 |
| Riddell | I could never get the hang of aptitude | 03:17 |
| jjesse | me either | 03:17 |
| ogra | jjesse, imagine a win 2000 adim in such a environment | 03:17 |
| ogra | *admin | 03:17 |
| Riddell | bhuvan: will there be a general introduction to the command line chapter? | 03:17 |
| bhuvan | imo, if he is used to command line, then apt-get would be a cake-walk | 03:17 |
| jjesse | ogra i am a windows admin | 03:17 |
| ogra | he'd kiss your feet for at least some gui love | 03:17 |
| jjesse | that's what i do for a living | 03:17 |
| Riddell | ogra: he's want to use adept/synaptic then | 03:17 |
| bhuvan | Riddel: general introduction ? | 03:17 |
| Riddell | jjesse's dirty secret :) | 03:18 |
| ogra | jjesse, but *you* know debian based systems ... | 03:18 |
| jsgotangco | your toc contains aptitude or maybe its still wip? | 03:18 |
| jjesse | but i started using linux after i was a windows admin | 03:18 |
| Riddell | bhuvan: yeah, introducing GUI users to the command line | 03:18 |
| bhuvan | in any case, we may give an introduction about all possible package manager | 03:19 |
| ogra | jjesse, sure, i mean the guy who heard about linux and wants to try out the one a friend recommended it to him... to probably adopt it for his setup | 03:19 |
| bhuvan | Riddell, ok | 03:19 |
| jsgotangco | well apt is definitely more popular than aptitude... | 03:19 |
| ogra | sure | 03:19 |
| kjcole | Will the average admin use much more than update, upgrade, dist-upgrade and install? (Once in a while remove or clean.) Doesn't seem too complex... | 03:19 |
| bhuvan | so, shall we decide on apt-get ? | 03:19 |
| jjesse | +1 from me | 03:20 |
| jsgotangco | i'd go for apt | 03:20 |
| ogra | as i said intially, i prefer it personally... but for newcomers i'd suggest aptitude .. | 03:20 |
| bhuvan | cool | 03:20 |
| jsgotangco | ok so we're cool on apt? | 03:21 |
| Riddell | + 1 for apt, -1 for aptitude including for beginners | 03:21 |
| jjesse | heck if its in the guide then the "newbies" will learn apt :) | 03:21 |
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| bhuvan | ok | 03:21 |
| jsgotangco | nice | 03:21 |
| bhuvan | next regarding contribution ? | 03:21 |
| jsgotangco | sure | 03:21 |
| jsgotangco | contribution on what? | 03:21 |
| bhuvan | i may cover most part of sys conf/network related applications | 03:21 |
| bhuvan | any takes for windows networking/misc stuffs ? | 03:21 |
| bhuvan | s/takes/($1)ers | 03:22 |
| jsgotangco | samba for example? | 03:22 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, exactly | 03:22 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm if you can finalize your TOC i can make a draft of samba stuff... | 03:22 |
| jjesse | as a windows admin i can look into it | 03:23 |
| bhuvan | cool | 03:23 |
| jsgotangco | and probably some on bind and dncp | 03:23 |
| bhuvan | ok | 03:23 |
| bhuvan | hope you meant dhcp ? | 03:23 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 03:23 |
| Riddell | bhuvan: the synaptic chapter should really be an adept chapter when included in kubuntu, I wonder if it's possible to use profiles for that | 03:23 |
| bhuvan | Riddell: i guess, we're going to have one generic server guide | 03:24 |
| jjesse | Riddell: if i recall we tried to use profiles at one time and it messed things up? | 03:24 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: are you planning to add gui stuff? i assume this is all cli | 03:24 |
| jjesse | bhuvan: the doc would be included on the kubuntu install if the person typed server at the install | 03:24 |
| ogra | Riddell, you'll stay with adept ? | 03:24 |
| Kamion | apt-get/aptitude> note that aptitude provides a perfectly good command-line replacement for apt-get; consider that as well as its UI | 03:25 |
| Riddell | bhuvan: yes, kubuntu docs should include the server guide, synaptic is the only chapter I can see that ought to be changed somehow, not a huge issue though | 03:25 |
| jjesse | for kubntu yeah we will | 03:25 |
| Riddell | ogra: of course, why not? | 03:25 |
| jsgotangco | ogra: will the default edubuntu install still have gnome running on the server? | 03:25 |
| bhuvan | Riddell, good point. we can include it | 03:25 |
| ogra | jsgotangco, yes | 03:25 |
| bhuvan | any target date to freeze the toc ? | 03:25 |
| ogra | jsgotangco, it needs a installed desktop... (no need for a running one though... but gdm doesnt cost much) | 03:26 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: there's no LTSP on the TOC | 03:26 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, ok | 03:26 |
| ogra | Riddell, its UI reminds on bugzilla :) | 03:26 |
| jsgotangco | lol | 03:27 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, i'll add | 03:27 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: great | 03:27 |
| jsgotangco | what else | 03:27 |
| bhuvan | i repeat, any target date to freeze the toc ? | 03:27 |
| jsgotangco | mgalvin: anything to say on the server doc? | 03:27 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: its your call | 03:27 |
| kjcole | This is where I should probably dig myself a bigger hole: Jeff Elkner and I are theoretically working on an Edubuntu Cookbook based on the tuxLab Howto... The LTSP stuff will be in there, no doubt. | 03:27 |
| jsgotangco | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide looks good at the moment | 03:28 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, ok | 03:28 |
| ogra | kjcole, thats fine ... | 03:28 |
| bhuvan | fine | 03:28 |
| jsgotangco | kjcole: sure | 03:28 |
| jbailey | kjcole: Cookbook? "How to fry your thin client: Just add water" | 03:28 |
| bhuvan | guess, we can move on to (3) | 03:28 |
| dholbach | haha :) | 03:28 |
| jjesse | 1 | 03:28 |
| ogra | kjcole, the server guide they are talking about is rather "how do i install all ltsp stuff manually on a non-edubuntu" | 03:28 |
| jsgotangco | ok since bhuvan will be leaving let's jump to 3 | 03:28 |
| jjesse | doh wrong window | 03:28 |
| ogra | kjcole, while edubuntu comes preconfigured ;) | 03:29 |
| jsgotangco | Quicktour - XML or HTML | 03:29 |
| jsgotangco | ? | 03:29 |
| bhuvan | yeah, we're maintaining the html version in our svn | 03:29 |
| mgalvin | jsgotangco: I have only been partly following the meeting, is the server guide going to be about ubuntu-server or ubuntu as a server | 03:29 |
| bhuvan | imo, it's odd. let's convert it into xml ? | 03:29 |
| jsgotangco | mgalvin: ubuntu-server | 03:30 |
| jjesse | i thought it was about ubuntu-server | 03:30 |
| bhuvan | + howto use ubuntu as a complete server | 03:30 |
| mgalvin | ok, just clarifying for myself, thnx | 03:30 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: mgalvin has been working on "instant server" along with fabbione and others you might want to talk with them too | 03:30 |
| Riddell | ubuntu-server doesn't have synaptic then | 03:30 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, yeah, i'm aware of it | 03:31 |
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| bhuvan | jsgotangco, sure i'll | 03:31 |
| jsgotangco | ok can we jump on 3 then? | 03:31 |
| bhuvan | i already had :) | 03:31 |
| jsgotangco | ok | 03:31 |
| jsgotangco | what's wrong with the html | 03:31 |
| jsgotangco | :) | 03:31 |
| Riddell | what's the issues for XML or docbook? HTML can't be translated easily presumably but docbook needs clever stylesheets and might restrict layout? | 03:31 |
| bhuvan | it looks odd, let's convert it into xml and maintain the uniformity accross the repo | 03:32 |
| jsgotangco | i believe its in xhtml so its can be translated | 03:32 |
| mgalvin | i don't have any suggestions atm, i will read the meeting log when i have time and post any comments to the list (i am busy back and forth a bit atm) | 03:32 |
| bhuvan | xml gives flexibility to convert between html/pdf .. | 03:32 |
| bhuvan | if need be.. | 03:32 |
| jsgotangco | but if its going to be converted to xml, it can be flexible | 03:32 |
| bhuvan | mgalvin, thankx | 03:33 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, yes | 03:33 |
| jsgotangco | it was converted before, but its a very simple document really | 03:33 |
| jsgotangco | but anyways, | 03:33 |
| jbailey | The html issue is that there's no trivial way to associate other languages with it. In docbook, you can have multiple omf files that give links to the right languages. | 03:33 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: right... | 03:33 |
| jbailey | So it's not the document itself so much as the things *using* the documents. | 03:33 |
| jsgotangco | scrollkeeper lovely :) | 03:33 |
| jbailey | Right. | 03:33 |
| jsgotangco | anyayws, docbook always was the choice we're smart enough to transform any xml document :) | 03:34 |
| bhuvan | so, we can maintain xml ? | 03:34 |
| jbailey | That said, if what you're producing is documentation, there shouldn't be so much need for crazy styling - docbook is good enouhg to produce books. =) | 03:34 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 03:34 |
| jbailey | It's mostly when you're doing things like the firefox about page that converting from docbook will always suck. | 03:34 |
| bhuvan | cool | 03:34 |
| jjesse | i think the only question is how the quicktour will look then right? | 03:34 |
| jsgotangco | jjesse: sure but that would be voodoo css then heh | 03:35 |
| jsgotangco | we have 5 more months | 03:35 |
| jsgotangco | ok so we settled on xml then | 03:35 |
| jsgotangco | its only 1 document | 03:35 |
| jsgotangco | :) | 03:35 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, thankx | 03:35 |
| bhuvan | * time to start to "HARRY POTTER and the gobert of fire" | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: can you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects to reflect your changes | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | lol | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | thanks bhuvan | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | we'll request svn access for you | 03:36 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, ok | 03:36 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, ok | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | bhuvan: have your gpg key ready | 03:36 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco, yes | 03:36 |
| bhuvan | in lp | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | ok we go back to 2 | 03:36 |
| jsgotangco | Packaging - single source package to be used for {edu}{k}ubuntu? (mdke and dholbach) | 03:37 |
| bhuvan | bye bye | 03:37 |
| jsgotangco | dholbach? | 03:37 |
| dholbach | yeah... it was my misunderstanding... i thought that "one source package for all the docs" was decided on already | 03:37 |
| jsgotangco | does this mean all docs will be in one package? | 03:37 |
| dholbach | if there are no shared chapters between docs, it might make sense to have them separately | 03:37 |
| ogra | edubuntu will have pretty specific docs | 03:38 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 03:38 |
| jjesse | as will kubuntu | 03:38 |
| dholbach | no... one source package can build a huge lot of binary packages | 03:38 |
| jsgotangco | this doesn't make sense to me really | 03:38 |
| jjesse | we aren't profilling | 03:38 |
| ogra | so a additional edubuntu-docs package should be fine | 03:38 |
| jsgotangco | they only have shared libs on svn | 03:38 |
| jsgotangco | but not on the doc itself | 03:38 |
| dholbach | i'm talking about a SOURCE package :) | 03:38 |
| Riddell | there are shared docs too, like server guide | 03:38 |
| jbailey | You can also make an ubuntu-docs-common | 03:38 |
| jbailey | For shared bits | 03:38 |
| dholbach | yeah | 03:38 |
| === dholbach hugs jbailey | ||
| jbailey | Just make sure you update the DapperStandardsBase bits if you do that, please. | 03:39 |
| Riddell | although, kubuntu might want different stylesheets and output compated to ubuntu | 03:39 |
| jbailey | For branding, we specifically said that ubuntu-docs could be overridden. | 03:39 |
| jsgotangco | very different stylesheets | 03:39 |
| dholbach | yeah... let's just drop the idea | 03:39 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: because its possible that oems would want to do their own docs right? | 03:39 |
| dholbach | it was my misunderstanding, sorry | 03:39 |
| jbailey | jsgotangco: Right. | 03:39 |
| ogra | the -coomon package idea sounds very cool | 03:39 |
| ogra | *-common | 03:40 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 03:40 |
| dholbach | ogra, Riddell: so the three of us will take care of the packages? | 03:40 |
| jsgotangco | we can dump all the libs and license stuff on -common i guess | 03:40 |
| ogra | dholbach, i'll care for edubuntu-docs | 03:40 |
| dholbach | cool | 03:40 |
| Riddell | dholbach: ok, but if you set up e.g. scripts to do weekly uploads then mind and include us | 03:40 |
| jbailey | How I would do it, I think, for a -common would be to have that in a separate repo, decide on those styles and lock 'em down early if you can. Any change to those will start to affect a lot of packages. | 03:40 |
| dholbach | Riddell: same goes for you :) | 03:41 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: the -common would probably start on the svn itself... | 03:41 |
| jjesse | i would be fore setting up styles and everything, that way i wouldn't have to always bug riddell over and over again :) | 03:41 |
| jsgotangco | is *-common good for us? | 03:42 |
| jsgotangco | or needs further discussion | 03:42 |
| jbailey | I think further. | 03:43 |
| jjesse | well are we going to have diff | 03:43 |
| jjesse | sorry | 03:43 |
| jjesse | wrong window | 03:43 |
| jbailey | I've seen people say 'yay' and people say 'kubuntu and ubuntu might want different styles' | 03:43 |
| ogra | edubuntu as well :) | 03:44 |
| jsgotangco | ok | 03:44 |
| Riddell | I don't think -common would work with different styles | 03:44 |
| jsgotangco | its a good base of discussion though | 03:44 |
| jsgotangco | ok so we'll move this on the list then | 03:45 |
| ogra | Riddell, do you use lsb-release ? | 03:45 |
| jsgotangco | Removal of "K" from the front of Kubuntu documents | 03:45 |
| jsgotangco | ? | 03:45 |
| Riddell | ogra: for what? | 03:46 |
| jsgotangco | like my original kquickguide.xml? | 03:46 |
| ogra | Riddell, to set it to Kubuntu insterad of Ubuntu | 03:46 |
| kjcole | Well, the wiki allows me to change styles, and lots of HTML comes with alternate styles... Is it a silly idea to have multiple styles and some scripts for each variant (k-, edu-) set a default style while offering up the alternatives? | 03:46 |
| ogra | Riddell, see lsb_release -a | 03:46 |
| jsgotangco | jjesse: ? | 03:47 |
| Riddell | ogra: no, the kubuntu /etc/lsb-release file is the same as for ubuntu | 03:47 |
| ogra | Riddell, we could add a debconf setting to select the right style based on lsb-release, if we both would start setting the right value there | 03:47 |
| jjesse | sorry work called missed | 03:47 |
| jsgotangco | jjesse: removal of K? | 03:47 |
| Riddell | yes please :) | 03:47 |
| jsgotangco | does it bork the doc? | 03:48 |
| Riddell | the documents are already in the kubuntu directory as a namespace | 03:48 |
| Riddell | also the Makefile targets are hard to understand acronyms like kak, which should be changed to e.g. make about-kubuntu | 03:49 |
| Riddell | I think that affects the ubuntu docs too, it's just a wee thing to make it less user friendly | 03:49 |
| jsgotangco | well that's true and kak sounds like turd | 03:50 |
| Riddell | yep :) | 03:50 |
| Riddell | so that's agreed, just a question of if me or jjesse does it and does the ubuntu Makefile follow | 03:51 |
| jsgotangco | anyways, i was just having fun back then when i did the kname on the doc | 03:51 |
| Riddell | ah hah, it's all jsgotangco's fault :) | 03:51 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 03:51 |
| jjesse | sorry back from work | 03:51 |
| jsgotangco | the kname doesn't really affect much of the doc itself unless there were some magic involved that i didn't see at all :) | 03:52 |
| jjesse | like i said over email only thing to do would be to change the make file and rename the docs on svn right? | 03:52 |
| jsgotangco | yes basically | 03:52 |
| Riddell | jjesse: yes. so me or you to do it? | 03:52 |
| jsgotangco | they don't link back to the other docs | 03:52 |
| jjesse | i can do it today | 03:53 |
| Riddell | groovy | 03:53 |
| Kamion | ogra: NOOOOO | 03:53 |
| jjesse | it looks like a slow day at work :) | 03:53 |
| Kamion | ogra: lsb-release is not going to be polluted by debconf madness | 03:53 |
| jsgotangco | ok that's settled then | 03:53 |
| jsgotangco | Moving locale C --> en? | 03:53 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm | 03:53 |
| jsgotangco | this is a gnome thing | 03:53 |
| jsgotangco | dholbach: ping? | 03:53 |
| dholbach | pong | 03:54 |
| jsgotangco | is locale C really required instead of en? | 03:54 |
| Kamion | ogra: nor can it possibly return different values for Ubuntu and Kubuntu, since both are built out of the same archive | 03:54 |
| dholbach | jsgotangco: what do you want to change? | 03:54 |
| ogra | Kamion, i dont want to pollute it, i wanted to read from it | 03:54 |
| jbailey | The C locale is the fall back one. | 03:54 |
| jbailey | en isn't usually the fallback. | 03:54 |
| Riddell | Kamion: and presumably same for edubuntu | 03:54 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: this messes up other installs say FR? | 03:55 |
| jsgotangco | if the fallback isn't C? | 03:55 |
| jbailey | Well, you'd have to teach scrollkeeper that the fallback was en instead. | 03:55 |
| Kamion | Riddell: yes, hence ogra should know this | 03:55 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: nice | 03:55 |
| jsgotangco | that'll probably bork the other upstream stuff then | 03:56 |
| dholbach | why would you want to change it in the first place? | 03:56 |
| jsgotangco | well one member raised it before | 03:57 |
| dholbach | mh | 03:57 |
| jsgotangco | i think it messes up transformation of sorts | 03:57 |
| jsgotangco | don't really remember the technical details | 03:57 |
| jsgotangco | we can move this to list | 03:57 |
| dholbach | i see | 03:57 |
| jbailey | I'd be inclined to put it with a "provide technical reasons, come again soon" | 03:57 |
| jsgotangco | jeff schering isn't here... | 03:58 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: i'll make a comment on that then | 03:58 |
| jsgotangco | anyways | 03:58 |
| jsgotangco | not much members came anyways | 03:58 |
| jsgotangco | i'd like to discuss docteam member stuff | 03:58 |
| jsgotangco | and get opinion from those here | 03:58 |
| jsgotangco | :) | 03:58 |
| dholbach | if there's nothing you want with me right now, i'd leave to grab something to eat and take my dog out | 03:58 |
| jbailey | dholbach: Woking the dog? | 03:59 |
| jsgotangco | dholbach: cool i think we're done | 03:59 |
| jsgotangco | dholbach: don't work your dog man | 03:59 |
| dholbach | jbailey: errrr no :) | 03:59 |
| jsgotangco | poor murphy | 03:59 |
| ogra | jbailey, hey, we are not in chinatown anymore | 03:59 |
| dholbach | ... | 03:59 |
| dholbach | this is the right time to leave :) | 03:59 |
| ogra | heh | 03:59 |
| dholbach | see you later guys and thanks for the meeting | 03:59 |
| jsgotangco | anyways | 03:59 |
| jsgotangco | https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-doc has the current membership | 03:59 |
| jsgotangco | obviously its restricted membership | 04:00 |
| jsgotangco | but i'd like to ask if its reasonable that we make members with svn access to sign the coc | 04:00 |
| jsgotangco | mandatory :) | 04:00 |
| jsgotangco | besides we upload too in ubuntu servers | 04:00 |
| jbailey | I would be inclined to simply restrict svn commit access to members. | 04:01 |
| jbailey | Anyone who's contrib'd a bunch of things can qualify as a member. | 04:01 |
| jjesse | i think members should sign the CoC | 04:01 |
| jjesse | but don't give svn access to all members | 04:01 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: of course...but i'm inclined that team members sign the coc too | 04:01 |
| jjesse | not all members commit correct? | 04:01 |
| === Riddell notes dual use of word "member" here | ||
| jbailey | Riddell: Right, sorry. | 04:01 |
| jbailey | I meant, restrict SVN commit to Ubuntu members. | 04:02 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: ahhhh | 04:02 |
| jbailey | And encourage folks who are active contributors to get their Ubuntu membership anyway, since it integrates them into the Ubuntu community in general. | 04:02 |
| kjcole | In my blundering around in launchpad, I've created teams that were probably better left uncreated, one of which was the Edubuntu Cookbook team. | 04:02 |
| jsgotangco | good point | 04:02 |
| jsgotangco | kjcole: sure go crazy in lp anyways... | 04:03 |
| jjesse | or like the team of all jonathans that one day i was a member of :) | 04:03 |
| kjcole | So, speaking of docs, there needs to be more Launchpad docs for people like me. ;-) | 04:03 |
| Riddell | jjesse: you arn't any more? changed your name? | 04:03 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: i probably got 1 or 2 people in the team list with commit access but not an ubuntu-member though... | 04:03 |
| jsgotangco | kjcole: well https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects has a sampling of current work | 04:04 |
| jsgotangco | (Edubuntu used to be there btw) | 04:04 |
| jbailey | jsgotangco: Right, but if they've contributed enough to get svn access, then they've certainly done enough to become an Ubuntu member | 04:04 |
| jsgotangco | sure if it interests them at all (one don't) | 04:05 |
| jbailey | Do you really think it would be a blocked? | 04:05 |
| jbailey | blocker, rather? | 04:05 |
| jsgotangco | not really, but i'd have them sign the coc since they do work in ubuntu servers for one | 04:06 |
| jsgotangco | being a -member is their own choice | 04:06 |
| Riddell | only blocking would be a time issue, 2 weeks to next CC meeting then however long to get an SVN account is a hassle | 04:06 |
| jsgotangco | but any current -member can easily get svn access sure | 04:06 |
| jjesse | boss was around, Riddell i'm no longer amember of that team | 04:07 |
| jjesse | i didn't change name or antying | 04:07 |
| jsgotangco | what team? | 04:08 |
| jjesse | the all jonathan's team | 04:08 |
| Riddell | jjesse: I don't seem to be either, wonder where it's gone | 04:08 |
| jsgotangco | lol ok | 04:08 |
| jjesse | didthe team get deleted? | 04:08 |
| jsgotangco | anyways | 04:08 |
| jsgotangco | this needs more discussion | 04:08 |
| jsgotangco | and more ubuntu-doc members | 04:08 |
| jsgotangco | its probably a good cc topic too, not just for ubuntu-doc but for other teams | 04:08 |
| Riddell | I agree with jbailey though, just make sure everyone is an ubuntu member | 04:08 |
| jjesse | can i just say that AS/400 query sucks | 04:09 |
| jbailey | jjesse: This isn't news. =) | 04:09 |
| jbailey | But sometimes I miss green text on a black background. =) | 04:09 |
| jjesse | not news for me either, but i hate working w/ it :( | 04:09 |
| jbailey | jsgotangco: Will you bring it up with the CC? | 04:09 |
| jjesse | they want to move here from green screen to in the web browser | 04:09 |
| jsgotangco | Riddell: that's really a good suggestion and makes sure the one who commits actually went through the acid test | 04:09 |
| jsgotangco | jbailey: i need to ask the other guys (burgundavia, mdke, rob, etc.) | 04:10 |
| jbailey | jsgotangco: And the you don't necessarily need to worry about CoC for people without SVN because it's always getting filtered through someone who has. | 04:10 |
| Riddell | jjesse: ah https://launchpad.net/people/jouuamaoe | 04:10 |
| jjesse | i would vote for svn access go to members | 04:10 |
| jjesse | my subscription has been deactivated | 04:10 |
| jsgotangco | ubuntu-members is already settled they're whitelisted then | 04:10 |
| jsgotangco | the question now is svn access be restriected to ubuntu-members, meaning potential contributors need to become an ubuntu-member | 04:11 |
| === jsgotangco is warming up on the thought just now... | ||
| jjesse | based on the amount of patches they submitted to the mailing list they would be good canidates for inclusion to ubuntu-members, shows theyare dedicated | 04:12 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 04:12 |
| jsgotangco | kjcole: what's the plan on the cookbook? | 04:12 |
| kjcole | Sorry, stepped away for a minute. | 04:13 |
| kjcole | jsgotangco: Plan? We don't need no stinking plan! | 04:13 |
| jsgotangco | that's the spirit! | 04:13 |
| jsgotangco | bshumate: you there mate? you got any questions while we're still here? | 04:14 |
| jsgotangco | we can wrap up now | 04:14 |
| jsgotangco | hmm | 04:14 |
| jsgotangco | alright | 04:14 |
| Riddell | has any work started on the ubuntu desktop doc? | 04:14 |
| kjcole | Honestly, I don't know. As I mentioned at the Edubuntu meeting two days ago, I wasn't at the table when I got committed to doing it. (I was off in another room with the LTSP people.) | 04:14 |
| bshumate | i am here...no questions. very professional bunch ya got here! | 04:14 |
| bshumate | jsgotangco: can i e-mail you later with any other questions though? | 04:15 |
| jsgotangco | Riddell: last time i looked at it, a lot of screenshots got moved | 04:15 |
| jsgotangco | bshumate: sure dude | 04:16 |
| kjcole | So, I'm learning about things like XML, docbook, LTSP, revision management, and oh... Edubuntu. None of which I've used. Jeff who's the other member of the team has at least used LTSP. | 04:16 |
| jsgotangco | kjcole: i started with zero too last year when i joined the project really | 04:17 |
| jsgotangco | anyways we had a good meeting | 04:17 |
| jsgotangco | hopefully the next will have more people (mdke, burg, etc.) | 04:17 |
| jjesse | Riddell: i've started a little on the kubuntu desktop guide but nothing ready to be commited | 04:17 |
| kjcole | Well, I'm willing, and hopefully able, just not quite ready. Soon though. | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | i'll post the minutes tommorow | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | next meeting in 2 weeks, 22:00UTC!!!! | 04:18 |
| jjesse | keep the launchpad calendar updated | 04:18 |
| kjcole | See ya. | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | oh crap dec. 2 | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | i'll be in seoul | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | jeezz | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | anways | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | dec. 2, 2200UTC! | 04:18 |
| jsgotangco | adjourned! | 04:19 |
| === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] | ||
| Riddell | jjesse: would you be able to commit anything? just so we have a template to play with for setting up the packaging? | 04:19 |
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| Riddell | bah | 04:19 |
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