[02:53] <jsgotangco> mm let's wait a bit before we start
[02:57] <jsgotangco> are we set?
[02:57] <jjesse> i am :0
[02:58] <jsgotangco> great let's aim for quality then
[02:58] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:58] <kjcole> Here physically and virtually, but on my schedule, not mentally. ;-)
[02:58] <jjesse> is it too early to be here mentally kjcole
[02:58] <jjesse> ?
[02:58] <jsgotangco> kjcole: are you on campus?
[02:58] <kjcole> Yep.
[02:59] <dholbach> do you have the agenda somewhere?
[02:59] <jsgotangco> ok
[02:59] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
[02:59] <jsgotangco> who's here?
[02:59] <jjesse> me
[02:59] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Perhaps I should say I'm on MY campus: Gallaudet University...
[03:00] <kjcole> kjcole = Kevin Cole
[03:00] <Treenaks> kjcole: -color please
[03:01] <jsgotangco> err anyone else?
[03:02] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda is our agenda
[03:02] <dholbach> mdke told me, that my attendance was required regarding the future packaging of the ubuntu docs?
[03:02] <jsgotangco> i believe so
[03:02] <jsgotangco> hmm what's wrong with bhuvan
[03:02] <jsgotangco> anyways
[03:02] <jsgotangco> dholbach: are you in charge of the packaging now?
[03:03] <dholbach> yes
[03:03] <jsgotangco> or will you be mentoring someone?
[03:03] <jsgotangco> awesome...
[03:03] <dholbach> i had a brief look at the complete source of the svn, but was not able to figure it out yet
[03:03] <dholbach> i will investigate a bit more at the weekend
[03:03] <jsgotangco> okay bhuvan seems to be having problems on connecting
[03:03] <dholbach> regarding the one-source-package-story: i heard it somewhere and thought it was decided on already
[03:04] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: you ok now?
[03:04] <bhuvan> yeah
[03:04] <bhuvan> yes
[03:04] <jsgotangco> ok let's tackle 1 and 3 first since bhuvan will be leaving soon
[03:04] <bhuvan> any feedbacks/suggestions about w.u.c/ServerGuide ?
[03:04] <jsgotangco> bhuvan current wrote the spec for the server guide
[03:04] <jsgotangco> its located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide
[03:04] <jsgotangco> i haven't read it yet but it looks pretty comprehensive based on the TOC
[03:04] <bhuvan> today i wish to discuss about the topics, finalize couple of terminologies we may use in our serverguide
[03:05] <bhuvan> ok
[03:05] <dholbach> bhuvan: with whom do you work on this?
[03:05] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: do you plan to diverge from MAIN repos?
[03:05] <jjesse> bhuvan: just scanned it and it looks good
[03:05] <bhuvan> jsgotango, no
[03:05] <jsgotangco> ok so its all MAIN stuff then
[03:05] <bhuvan> dholbach, it's based on rhel admin guide
[03:05] <bhuvan> jsgotango, yes
[03:06] <bhuvan> jjesse, ok
[03:06] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: who are you working with at the moment, do you have a draft already?
[03:06] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, no
[03:06] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: can we know your whole name if you don't mind?
[03:06] <bhuvan> i do've a template at http://puggy.symonds.net/~bhuvan/ubuntu-doc/build/generic/serverguide/C/  
[03:07] <dholbach> bhuvan: you might want to talk to fabbione, because he works on the server edition on the distro side
[03:07] <bhuvan> Bhuvaneswaran Arumugam
[03:07] <bhuvan> dholbach, sure
[03:07] <jsgotangco> shit my seat just fell
[03:07] <dholbach> bhuvan: and infinity, but i'm not quite sure
[03:07] <bhuvan> dholbach, ok
[03:08] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:08] <jsgotangco> anyways
[03:08] <jsgotangco> bhuvan has been contributing a lot with patches and stuff
[03:08] <bhuvan> and one page template at, http://puggy.symonds.net/~bhuvan/ubuntu-doc/build/generic/serverguide/C/serverguide-all.html
[03:08] <jsgotangco> i'd like to request svn access for him...
[03:09] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: what else do you need to help you on the project?
[03:09] <jsgotangco> resources, etc.?
[03:09] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok .. but, before that let me discuss about the terminologies we may use in our server guide
[03:10] <jsgotangco> okay
[03:10] <jsgotangco> shoot
[03:10] <kjcole> A question from someone new to the whole process: I keep seeing svn.  bzr/launchpad not ready enough for prime time? (Or am I so new to this that the question doesn't make sense?)
[03:10] <bhuvan> first, the editor. the choices are vi/vim/emacs. i prefer vim
[03:11] <ogra> i dont think we ship a plain vi
[03:11] <jsgotangco> kjcole: we've been using svn from the very start, a bzr transition will take time and planning and we'll need the lp team's help
[03:11] <Riddell> kjcole: at the time svn was set up baz had a steep learning curve.  bzr should be really good now but I think this cycle will stick with svn
[03:11] <dholbach> bhuvan: what do you mean? like rteferring to an editor in examples and such?
[03:11] <jsgotangco> kjcole: but we're going there
[03:11] <jsgotangco> how about nano?
[03:11] <jsgotangco> its pretty easy enough even for newbies imo
[03:11] <ogra> at least that the default
[03:11] <kjcole> I was going to mention nano...
[03:12] <Riddell> bhuvan: quanta, kate and presumably gedit are also choices
[03:12] <jsgotangco> Riddell: for servers? heh
[03:12] <ogra> Riddell, depends if you want to write the guide for servers with GUI
[03:12] <bhuvan> dholbach, i meant the editor we use to configure
[03:12] <bhuvan> dholbach, ie.. to edit conf files
[03:12] <bhuvan> Riddel, server wont have X. so we cant rely on gedit
[03:12] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: i'd go for nano, its pretty easy for beginners
[03:12] <ogra> jsgotangco, for edubuntu (a server distro) it would be appropriate
[03:13] <dholbach> i would say "edit bla file" and maybe in the first paragraph mention howtos for the editors *shrug*
[03:13] <kjcole> (If nano's in the mix a "-bkw" would be a useful default/alias somewhere.)
[03:13] <jsgotangco> vi/vim is like a chapter on linux in a nutshell :)
[03:13] <jsgotangco> and probably make a back up of the default conf files first before editing..
[03:14] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:14] <Riddell> bhuvan: I would assume nano then but have small chapters for vim and emacs as well
[03:14] <bhuvan> dholbach, i prefer to be specific with the editor to use
[03:14] <dholbach> yeah, that was merely my own opinion ;)
[03:14] <bhuvan> dholbach, ok
[03:14] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: maybe mention that in the beginning that you're going to use nano but you're free to use any editor...
[03:14] <jsgotangco> at least you'll have a scope/limitation on the editor part
[03:14] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:15] <bhuvan> ok
[03:15] <jsgotangco> k anything else bhuvan?
[03:15] <bhuvan> next, package manager
[03:15] <bhuvan> choices are apt-get/aptitude. i prefer apt-get
[03:16] <jjesse> it would make sense on the server to use apt-get, no gui is instaleld by default
[03:16] <ogra> me too, but aptitude is far more beginner friendly
[03:16] <kjcole> (Sorry: -Bkw (-B=backup, -k=kill from cursor to line end instead of entire line, and -w=no unsolicited wordwrapping.)
[03:16] <bhuvan> jjesse, i agree
[03:16] <jsgotangco> aptitude at least has a gui of sorts
[03:17] <jjesse> why is aptitude considered more newbie friendly?  when i started using linux it was debian and i learned apt-get 
[03:17] <bhuvan> jjesse, me too..
[03:17] <Riddell> I could never get the hang of aptitude
[03:17] <jjesse> me either
[03:17] <ogra> jjesse, imagine a win 2000 adim in such a environment
[03:17] <ogra> *admin
[03:17] <Riddell> bhuvan: will there be a general introduction to the command line chapter?
[03:17] <bhuvan> imo, if he is used to command line, then apt-get would be a cake-walk
[03:17] <jjesse> ogra i am a windows admin
[03:17] <ogra> he'd kiss your feet for at least some gui love
[03:17] <jjesse> that's what i do for a living
[03:17] <Riddell> ogra: he's want to use adept/synaptic then
[03:17] <bhuvan> Riddel: general introduction ?
[03:18] <Riddell> jjesse's dirty secret :)
[03:18] <ogra> jjesse, but *you* know debian based systems ...
[03:18] <jsgotangco> your toc contains aptitude or maybe its still wip?
[03:18] <jjesse> but i started using linux after i was a windows admin
[03:18] <Riddell> bhuvan: yeah, introducing GUI users to the command line
[03:19] <bhuvan> in any case, we may give an introduction about all possible package manager
[03:19] <ogra> jjesse, sure, i mean the guy who heard about linux and wants to try out the one a friend recommended it to him... to probably adopt it for his setup
[03:19] <bhuvan> Riddell, ok
[03:19] <jsgotangco> well apt is definitely more popular than aptitude...
[03:19] <ogra> sure
[03:19] <kjcole> Will the average admin use much more than update, upgrade, dist-upgrade and install?  (Once in a while remove or clean.)  Doesn't seem too complex...
[03:19] <bhuvan> so, shall we decide on apt-get ?
[03:20] <jjesse> +1 from me
[03:20] <jsgotangco> i'd go for apt
[03:20] <ogra> as i said intially, i prefer it personally... but for newcomers i'd suggest aptitude ..
[03:20] <bhuvan> cool
[03:21] <jsgotangco> ok so we're cool on apt?
[03:21] <Riddell> + 1 for apt, -1 for aptitude including for beginners
[03:21] <jjesse> heck if its in the guide then the "newbies" will learn apt :)
[03:21] <bhuvan> ok
[03:21] <jsgotangco> nice
[03:21] <bhuvan> next regarding contribution ?
[03:21] <jsgotangco> sure
[03:21] <jsgotangco> contribution on what?
[03:21] <bhuvan> i may cover most part of sys conf/network related applications
[03:21] <bhuvan> any takes for windows networking/misc stuffs ?
[03:22] <bhuvan> s/takes/($1)ers
[03:22] <jsgotangco> samba for example?
[03:22] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, exactly
[03:22] <jsgotangco> hmmm if you can finalize your TOC i can make a draft of samba stuff...
[03:23] <jjesse>  as a windows admin i can look into it
[03:23] <bhuvan> cool
[03:23] <jsgotangco> and probably some on bind and dncp
[03:23] <bhuvan> ok
[03:23] <bhuvan> hope you meant dhcp ?
[03:23] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:23] <Riddell> bhuvan: the synaptic chapter should really be an adept chapter when included in kubuntu, I wonder if it's possible to use profiles for that
[03:24] <bhuvan> Riddell: i guess, we're going to have one generic server guide
[03:24] <jjesse> Riddell: if i recall we tried to use profiles at one time and it messed things up?
[03:24] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: are you planning to add gui stuff? i assume this is all cli
[03:24] <jjesse> bhuvan: the doc would be included on the kubuntu install if the person typed server at the install
[03:24] <ogra> Riddell, you'll stay with adept ?
[03:25] <Kamion> apt-get/aptitude> note that aptitude provides a perfectly good command-line replacement for apt-get; consider that as well as its UI
[03:25] <Riddell> bhuvan: yes, kubuntu docs should include the server guide, synaptic is the only chapter I can see that ought to be changed somehow, not a huge issue though
[03:25] <jjesse> for kubntu yeah we will
[03:25] <Riddell> ogra: of course, why not?
[03:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: will the default edubuntu install still have gnome running on the server?
[03:25] <bhuvan> Riddell, good point. we can include it
[03:25] <ogra> jsgotangco, yes
[03:25] <bhuvan> any target date to freeze the toc ?
[03:26] <ogra> jsgotangco, it needs a installed desktop...  (no need for a running one though... but gdm doesnt cost much)
[03:26] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: there's no LTSP on the TOC
[03:26] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:26] <ogra> Riddell, its UI reminds on bugzilla :)
[03:27] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:27] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, i'll add
[03:27] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: great
[03:27] <jsgotangco> what else
[03:27] <bhuvan> i repeat, any target date to freeze the toc ?
[03:27] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: anything to say on the server doc?
[03:27] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: its your call
[03:27] <kjcole> This is where I should probably dig myself a bigger hole: Jeff Elkner and I are theoretically working on an Edubuntu Cookbook based on the tuxLab Howto...  The LTSP stuff will be in there, no doubt.
[03:28] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide looks good at the moment
[03:28] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:28] <ogra> kjcole, thats fine ... 
[03:28] <bhuvan> fine
[03:28] <jsgotangco> kjcole: sure
[03:28] <jbailey> kjcole: Cookbook?  "How to fry your thin client: Just add water"
[03:28] <bhuvan> guess, we can move on to (3)
[03:28] <dholbach> haha :)
[03:28] <jjesse> 1
[03:28] <ogra> kjcole, the server guide they are talking about is rather "how do i install all ltsp stuff manually on a non-edubuntu"
[03:28] <jsgotangco> ok since bhuvan will be leaving let's jump to 3 
[03:28] <jjesse> doh wrong window 
[03:29] <ogra> kjcole, while edubuntu comes preconfigured ;)
[03:29] <jsgotangco> Quicktour - XML or HTML
[03:29] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:29] <bhuvan> yeah, we're maintaining the html version in our svn
[03:29] <mgalvin> jsgotangco: I have only been partly following the meeting, is the server guide going to be about ubuntu-server or ubuntu as a server
[03:29] <bhuvan> imo, it's odd. let's convert it into xml ?
[03:30] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: ubuntu-server
[03:30] <jjesse> i thought it was about ubuntu-server
[03:30] <bhuvan> + howto use ubuntu as a complete server
[03:30] <mgalvin> ok, just clarifying for myself, thnx
[03:30] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: mgalvin has been working on "instant server" along with fabbione and others you might want to talk with them too
[03:30] <Riddell> ubuntu-server doesn't have synaptic then 
[03:31] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yeah, i'm aware of it
[03:31] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, sure i'll
[03:31] <jsgotangco> ok can we jump on 3 then?
[03:31] <bhuvan> i already had :)
[03:31] <jsgotangco> ok
[03:31] <jsgotangco> what's wrong with the html
[03:31] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:31] <Riddell> what's the issues for XML or docbook?  HTML can't be translated easily presumably but docbook needs clever stylesheets and might restrict layout?
[03:32] <bhuvan> it looks odd, let's convert it into xml and maintain the uniformity accross the repo
[03:32] <jsgotangco> i believe its in xhtml so its can be translated
[03:32] <mgalvin> i don't have any suggestions atm, i will read the meeting log when i have time and post any comments to the list (i am busy back and forth a bit atm)
[03:32] <bhuvan> xml gives flexibility to convert between html/pdf ..
[03:32] <bhuvan> if need be..
[03:32] <jsgotangco> but if its going to be converted to xml, it can be flexible
[03:33] <bhuvan> mgalvin, thankx
[03:33] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yes
[03:33] <jsgotangco> it was converted before, but its a very simple document really
[03:33] <jsgotangco> but anyways,
[03:33] <jbailey> The html issue is that there's no trivial way to associate other languages with it.  In docbook, you can have multiple omf files that give links to the right languages.
[03:33] <jsgotangco> jbailey: right...
[03:33] <jbailey> So it's not the document itself so much as the things *using* the documents.
[03:33] <jsgotangco> scrollkeeper lovely :)
[03:33] <jbailey> Right.
[03:34] <jsgotangco> anyayws, docbook always was the choice we're smart enough to transform any xml document :)
[03:34] <bhuvan> so, we can maintain xml ?
[03:34] <jbailey> That said, if what you're producing is documentation, there shouldn't be so much need for crazy styling - docbook is good enouhg to produce books. =)
[03:34] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:34] <jbailey> It's mostly when you're doing things like the firefox about page that converting from docbook will always suck.
[03:34] <bhuvan> cool
[03:34] <jjesse> i think the only question is how the quicktour will look then right?
[03:35] <jsgotangco> jjesse: sure but that would be voodoo css then heh
[03:35] <jsgotangco> we have 5 more months
[03:35] <jsgotangco> ok so we settled on xml then
[03:35] <jsgotangco> its only 1 document
[03:35] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:35] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, thankx
[03:36] <bhuvan> * time to start to "HARRY POTTER and the gobert of fire"
[03:36] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: can you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects to reflect your changes
[03:36] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:36] <jsgotangco> thanks bhuvan 
[03:36] <jsgotangco> we'll request svn access for you
[03:36] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:36] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:36] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: have your gpg key ready
[03:36] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yes
[03:36] <bhuvan> in lp
[03:36] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:36] <jsgotangco> ok we go back to 2
[03:37] <jsgotangco>  Packaging - single source package to be used for {edu}{k}ubuntu? (mdke and dholbach)
[03:37] <bhuvan> bye bye
[03:37] <jsgotangco> dholbach?
[03:37] <dholbach> yeah... it was my misunderstanding... i thought that "one source package for all the docs" was decided on already
[03:37] <jsgotangco> does this mean all docs will be in one package?
[03:37] <dholbach> if there are no shared chapters between docs, it might make sense to have them separately
[03:38] <ogra> edubuntu will have pretty specific docs 
[03:38] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:38] <jjesse> as will kubuntu
[03:38] <dholbach> no... one source package can build a huge lot of binary packages
[03:38] <jsgotangco> this doesn't make sense to me really
[03:38] <jjesse> we aren't profilling
[03:38] <ogra> so a additional edubuntu-docs package should be fine
[03:38] <jsgotangco> they only have shared libs on svn
[03:38] <jsgotangco> but not on the doc itself
[03:38] <dholbach> i'm talking about a SOURCE package :)
[03:38] <Riddell> there are shared docs too, like server guide
[03:38] <jbailey> You can also make an ubuntu-docs-common
[03:38] <jbailey> For shared bits
[03:38] <dholbach> yeah
[03:39] <jbailey> Just make sure you update the DapperStandardsBase bits if you do that, please.
[03:39] <Riddell> although, kubuntu might want different stylesheets and output compated to ubuntu
[03:39] <jbailey> For branding, we specifically said that ubuntu-docs could be overridden.
[03:39] <jsgotangco> very different stylesheets
[03:39] <dholbach> yeah... let's just drop the idea
[03:39] <jsgotangco> jbailey: because its possible that oems would want to do their own docs right?
[03:39] <dholbach> it was my misunderstanding, sorry
[03:39] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Right.
[03:39] <ogra> the -coomon package idea sounds very cool
[03:40] <ogra> *-common
[03:40] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:40] <dholbach> ogra, Riddell: so the three of us will take care of the packages?
[03:40] <jsgotangco> we can dump all the libs and license stuff on -common i guess
[03:40] <ogra> dholbach, i'll care for edubuntu-docs
[03:40] <dholbach> cool
[03:40] <Riddell> dholbach: ok, but if you set up e.g. scripts to do weekly uploads then mind and include us
[03:40] <jbailey> How I would do it, I think, for a -common would be to have that in a separate repo, decide on those styles and lock 'em down early if you can.  Any change to those will start to affect a lot of packages.
[03:41] <dholbach> Riddell: same goes for you :)
[03:41] <jsgotangco> jbailey: the -common would probably start on the svn itself...
[03:41] <jjesse> i would be fore setting up styles and everything, that way i wouldn't have to always bug riddell over and over again :)
[03:42] <jsgotangco> is *-common good for us?
[03:42] <jsgotangco> or needs further discussion
[03:43] <jbailey> I think further.
[03:43] <jjesse> well are we going to have diff
[03:43] <jjesse> sorry
[03:43] <jjesse> wrong window
[03:43] <jbailey> I've seen people say 'yay' and people say 'kubuntu and ubuntu might want different styles'
[03:44] <ogra> edubuntu as well :)
[03:44] <jsgotangco> ok
[03:44] <Riddell> I don't think -common would work with different styles
[03:44] <jsgotangco> its a good base of discussion though
[03:45] <jsgotangco> ok so we'll move this on the list then
[03:45] <ogra> Riddell, do you use lsb-release ?
[03:45] <jsgotangco>  Removal of "K" from the front of Kubuntu documents
[03:45] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:46] <Riddell> ogra: for what?
[03:46] <jsgotangco> like my original kquickguide.xml?
[03:46] <ogra> Riddell, to set it to Kubuntu insterad of Ubuntu
[03:46] <kjcole> Well, the wiki allows me to change styles, and lots of HTML comes with alternate styles...  Is it a silly idea to have multiple styles and some scripts for each variant (k-, edu-) set a default style while offering up the alternatives?
[03:46] <ogra> Riddell, see lsb_release -a
[03:47] <jsgotangco> jjesse: ?
[03:47] <Riddell> ogra: no, the kubuntu /etc/lsb-release file is the same as for ubuntu
[03:47] <ogra> Riddell, we could add a debconf setting to select the right style based on lsb-release, if we both would start setting the right value there
[03:47] <jjesse> sorry work called missed
[03:47] <jsgotangco> jjesse: removal of K?
[03:47] <Riddell> yes please :)
[03:48] <jsgotangco> does it bork the doc?
[03:48] <Riddell> the documents are already in the kubuntu directory as a namespace
[03:49] <Riddell> also the Makefile targets are hard to understand acronyms like kak, which should be changed to e.g.  make about-kubuntu
[03:49] <Riddell> I think that affects the ubuntu docs too, it's just a wee thing to make it less user friendly
[03:50] <jsgotangco> well that's true and kak sounds like turd
[03:50] <Riddell> yep :)
[03:51] <Riddell> so that's agreed, just a question of if me or jjesse does it and does the ubuntu Makefile follow
[03:51] <jsgotangco> anyways, i was just having fun back then when i did the kname on the doc
[03:51] <Riddell> ah hah, it's all jsgotangco's fault :)
[03:51] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:51] <jjesse> sorry back from work
[03:52] <jsgotangco> the kname doesn't really affect much of the doc itself unless there were some magic involved that i didn't see at all :)
[03:52] <jjesse> like i said over email only thing to do would be to change the make file and rename the docs on svn right?
[03:52] <jsgotangco> yes basically
[03:52] <Riddell> jjesse: yes.  so me or you to do it?
[03:52] <jsgotangco> they don't link back to the other docs
[03:53] <jjesse> i can do it today
[03:53] <Riddell> groovy
[03:53] <Kamion> ogra: NOOOOO
[03:53] <jjesse> it looks like a slow day at work :)
[03:53] <Kamion> ogra: lsb-release is not going to be polluted by debconf madness
[03:53] <jsgotangco> ok that's settled then
[03:53] <jsgotangco>  Moving locale C --> en?
[03:53] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[03:53] <jsgotangco> this is a gnome thing
[03:53] <jsgotangco> dholbach: ping?
[03:54] <dholbach> pong
[03:54] <jsgotangco> is locale C really required instead of en?
[03:54] <Kamion> ogra: nor can it possibly return different values for Ubuntu and Kubuntu, since both are built out of the same archive
[03:54] <dholbach> jsgotangco: what do you want to change?
[03:54] <ogra> Kamion, i dont want to pollute it, i wanted to read from it
[03:54] <jbailey> The C locale is the fall back one.
[03:54] <jbailey> en isn't usually the fallback.
[03:54] <Riddell> Kamion: and presumably same for edubuntu
[03:55] <jsgotangco> jbailey: this messes up other installs say FR?
[03:55] <jsgotangco> if the fallback isn't C?
[03:55] <jbailey> Well, you'd have to teach scrollkeeper that the fallback was en instead.
[03:55] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, hence ogra should know this
[03:55] <jsgotangco> jbailey: nice
[03:56] <jsgotangco> that'll probably bork the other upstream stuff then
[03:56] <dholbach> why would you want to change it in the first place?
[03:57] <jsgotangco> well one member raised it before
[03:57] <dholbach> mh
[03:57] <jsgotangco> i think it messes up transformation of sorts
[03:57] <jsgotangco> don't really remember the technical details
[03:57] <jsgotangco> we can move this to list
[03:57] <dholbach> i see
[03:57] <jbailey> I'd be inclined to put it with a "provide technical reasons, come again soon"
[03:58] <jsgotangco> jeff schering isn't here...
[03:58] <jsgotangco> jbailey: i'll make a comment on that then
[03:58] <jsgotangco> anyways
[03:58] <jsgotangco> not much members came anyways
[03:58] <jsgotangco> i'd like to discuss docteam member stuff 
[03:58] <jsgotangco> and get opinion from those here
[03:58] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:58] <dholbach> if there's nothing you want with me right now, i'd leave to grab something to eat and take my dog out
[03:59] <jbailey> dholbach: Woking the dog?
[03:59] <jsgotangco> dholbach: cool i think we're done
[03:59] <jsgotangco> dholbach: don't work your dog man
[03:59] <dholbach> jbailey: errrr no :)
[03:59] <jsgotangco> poor murphy
[03:59] <ogra> jbailey, hey, we are not in chinatown anymore
[03:59] <dholbach> ...
[03:59] <dholbach> this is the right time to leave :)
[03:59] <ogra> heh
[03:59] <dholbach> see you later guys and thanks for the meeting
[03:59] <jsgotangco> anyways
[03:59] <jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-doc has the current membership
[04:00] <jsgotangco> obviously its restricted membership
[04:00] <jsgotangco> but i'd like to ask if its reasonable that we make members with svn access to sign the coc
[04:00] <jsgotangco> mandatory :)
[04:00] <jsgotangco> besides we upload too in ubuntu servers
[04:01] <jbailey> I would be inclined to simply restrict svn commit access to members.
[04:01] <jbailey> Anyone who's contrib'd a bunch of things can qualify as a member.
[04:01] <jjesse> i think members should sign the CoC
[04:01] <jjesse> but don't give svn access to all members
[04:01] <jsgotangco> jbailey: of course...but i'm inclined that team members sign the coc too
[04:01] <jjesse> not all members commit correct?
[04:01] <jbailey> Riddell: Right, sorry.
[04:02] <jbailey> I meant, restrict SVN commit to Ubuntu members.
[04:02] <jsgotangco> jbailey: ahhhh
[04:02] <jbailey> And encourage folks who are active contributors to get their Ubuntu membership anyway, since it integrates them into the Ubuntu community in general.
[04:02] <kjcole> In my blundering around in launchpad, I've created teams that were probably better left uncreated, one of which was the Edubuntu Cookbook team.
[04:02] <jsgotangco> good point
[04:03] <jsgotangco> kjcole: sure go crazy in lp anyways...
[04:03] <jjesse> or like the team of all jonathans that one day i was a member of :)
[04:03] <kjcole> So, speaking of docs, there needs to be more Launchpad docs for people like me. ;-)
[04:03] <Riddell> jjesse: you arn't any more?  changed your name?
[04:03] <jsgotangco> jbailey: i probably got 1 or 2 people in the team list with commit access but not an ubuntu-member though...
[04:04] <jsgotangco> kjcole: well https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects has a sampling of current work
[04:04] <jsgotangco> (Edubuntu used to be there btw)
[04:04] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Right, but if they've contributed enough to get svn access, then they've certainly done enough to become an Ubuntu member
[04:05] <jsgotangco> sure if it interests them at all (one don't)
[04:05] <jbailey> Do you really think it would be a blocked?
[04:05] <jbailey> blocker, rather?
[04:06] <jsgotangco> not really, but i'd have them sign the coc since they do work in ubuntu servers for one
[04:06] <jsgotangco> being a -member is their own choice
[04:06] <Riddell> only blocking would be a time issue, 2 weeks to next CC meeting then however long to get an SVN account is a hassle
[04:06] <jsgotangco> but any current -member can easily get svn access sure
[04:07] <jjesse> boss was around, Riddell i'm no longer amember of that team
[04:07] <jjesse> i didn't change name or antying
[04:08] <jsgotangco> what team?
[04:08] <jjesse> the all jonathan's team
[04:08] <Riddell> jjesse: I don't seem to be either, wonder where it's gone
[04:08] <jsgotangco> lol ok
[04:08] <jjesse> didthe team get deleted?
[04:08] <jsgotangco> anyways
[04:08] <jsgotangco> this needs more discussion
[04:08] <jsgotangco> and more ubuntu-doc members
[04:08] <jsgotangco> its probably a good cc topic too, not just for ubuntu-doc but for other teams
[04:08] <Riddell> I agree with jbailey though, just make sure everyone is an ubuntu member
[04:09] <jjesse> can i just say that AS/400 query sucks
[04:09] <jbailey> jjesse: This isn't news. =)
[04:09] <jbailey> But sometimes I miss green text on a black background. =)
[04:09] <jjesse> not news for me either, but i hate working w/ it :(
[04:09] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Will you bring it up with the CC?
[04:09] <jjesse> they want to move here from green screen to in the web browser
[04:09] <jsgotangco> Riddell: that's really a good suggestion and makes sure the one who commits actually went through the acid test
[04:10] <jsgotangco> jbailey: i need to ask the other guys (burgundavia, mdke, rob, etc.)
[04:10] <jbailey> jsgotangco: And the you don't necessarily need to worry about CoC for people without SVN because it's always getting filtered through someone who has.
[04:10] <Riddell> jjesse: ah https://launchpad.net/people/jouuamaoe
[04:10] <jjesse> i would vote for svn access go to members
[04:10] <jjesse> my subscription has been deactivated
[04:10] <jsgotangco> ubuntu-members is already settled they're whitelisted then
[04:11] <jsgotangco> the question now is svn access be restriected to ubuntu-members, meaning potential contributors need to become an ubuntu-member 
[04:12] <jjesse> based on the amount of patches they submitted to the mailing list they would be good canidates for inclusion to ubuntu-members, shows theyare dedicated
[04:12] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:12] <jsgotangco> kjcole: what's the plan on the cookbook?
[04:13] <kjcole> Sorry, stepped away for a minute.
[04:13] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Plan? We don't need no stinking plan!
[04:13] <jsgotangco> that's the spirit!
[04:14] <jsgotangco> bshumate: you there mate? you got any questions while we're still here?
[04:14] <jsgotangco> we can wrap up now
[04:14] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:14] <jsgotangco> alright
[04:14] <Riddell> has any work started on the ubuntu desktop doc?
[04:14] <kjcole> Honestly, I don't know.  As I mentioned at the Edubuntu meeting two days ago, I wasn't at the table when I got committed to doing it.  (I was off in another room with the LTSP people.)
[04:14] <bshumate> i am here...no questions.  very professional bunch ya got here!
[04:15] <bshumate> jsgotangco: can i e-mail you later with any other questions though?
[04:15] <jsgotangco> Riddell: last time i looked at it, a lot of screenshots got moved
[04:16] <jsgotangco> bshumate: sure dude
[04:16] <kjcole> So, I'm learning about things like XML, docbook, LTSP, revision management, and oh... Edubuntu.  None of which I've used.  Jeff who's the other member of the team has at least used LTSP.
[04:17] <jsgotangco> kjcole: i started with zero too last year when i joined the project really
[04:17] <jsgotangco> anyways we had a good meeting
[04:17] <jsgotangco> hopefully the next will have more people (mdke, burg, etc.)
[04:17] <jjesse> Riddell: i've started a little on the kubuntu desktop guide but nothing ready to be commited
[04:18] <kjcole> Well, I'm willing, and hopefully able, just not quite ready.  Soon though.
[04:18] <jsgotangco> i'll post the minutes tommorow
[04:18] <jsgotangco> next meeting in 2 weeks, 22:00UTC!!!!
[04:18] <jjesse> keep the launchpad calendar updated
[04:18] <kjcole> See ya.
[04:18] <jsgotangco> oh crap dec. 2
[04:18] <jsgotangco> i'll be in seoul
[04:18] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[04:18] <jsgotangco> anways
[04:18] <jsgotangco> dec. 2, 2200UTC!
[04:19] <jsgotangco> adjourned!
[04:19] <Riddell> jjesse: would you be able to commit anything?  just so we have a template to play with for setting up the packaging?
[04:19] <Riddell> bah