/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/11/25/#ubuntu-devel.txt

=== zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
HiddenWolfany server admin here?12:09
HiddenWolfGPG error on nl.archive.ubuntu.com12:09
HiddenWolfW: GPG error: http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com breezy Release: Unknown error executing gpgv12:09
HiddenWolfW: GPG error: http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com breezy-updates Release: Unknown error executing gpgv12:10
ZnarlHiddenWolf : Only recently?12:12
HiddenWolfZnarl, yes12:12
crimsunwait 30 minutes and retry12:13
HiddenWolfcrimsun, what changed?12:13
crimsunmore than likely, it's syncing12:13
crimsundunno about 'breezy'12:14
HiddenWolfZnarl, isn't it still a redirect to archive.u.c?12:14
Znarlnl has recently changed to a mirror.12:16
=== Brunellus [n=luigi@ip68-100-18-88.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Brunellusstupid question.  how do I send a bug report using the bug reporting tool?  it seems to want to use sendmail;  how can I tell it to send the mail through my SMTP server?12:23
ZnarlHiddenWolf : OK, I've pointed nl back at the master archive site.12:26
HiddenWolfZnarl, I didn't ask you to, was just alerting you to that error. :)12:27
ZnarlHiddenWolf : Ok, I'll change it back.12:34
HiddenWolfZnarl, I didn't ask you to do that either. :)12:36
HiddenWolfZnarl, do what is right. I have no clue what's causing this.12:36
=== BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel
ZnarlHiddenWolf : Bug me again if it continues to happen in an hour, ok?12:37
HiddenWolfZnarl, nog gonna happen. It's 12:30 at night.12:39
HiddenWolfZnarl, I'm tucking in.12:39
HiddenWolfg/t12:39
HiddenWolfNight all.12:40
=== TMM [n=hp@c51471f2c.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Aegir` [n=richard@d220-238-232-61.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== aigarius [n=aigarius@159.148.239.80] has joined #ubuntu-devel
psusianyone know why aio_read is creating another thread instead of telling the kernel to do the IO asynchronously like it should?01:18
crimsunhow do you know that kernel thread isn't doing it?01:22
psusibecause when I step over the aio_read call in gdb it says a thread was created01:22
crimsunoh, you're not doing kdb stuff?01:23
psusinope... I'm trying to patch dd to use aio to keep the pipeline full when doing copies with O_DIRECT01:24
=== _jason [n=jason@dhcp0534.hrn.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel
crimsunyou might want to ask in #kernelnewbies on irc.oftc.net, then.01:24
psusihrm.... that's a channel for newbie kernel hackers?01:25
crimsunthe channel is misleading.01:25
crimsunchannel _name_01:25
psusihrm.... thanks01:25
=== _jason [n=jason@dhcp0534.hrn.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel
psusihrm.. if I install the debug libc package... how can I direct a program under gdb to use it instead of the stripped one?01:42
=== otavio is now known as otavio[off]
ispikedpsusi: it should automatically be able to load the symbols. at least with my experience that's how it's worked.01:52
=== Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== floam [n=floam@sh.nu] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"]
=== HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Blejdfizt [n=foobar@c-d74472d5.024-2014-67626714.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== _jason [n=jason@dhcp0534.hrn.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== beezly [n=andy@nat-out-honley.beezly.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== koke [n=koke@adsl229-164.unizar.es] has joined #ubuntu-devel
beezlyumm, i think i accidentally uploaded a package to upload.ubuntu.com earlier - that shouldn't upset anything/anyone should it?02:19
crimsunno02:19
crimsunit'll just be rejected silently unless your key is in the uploader keyring02:20
beezlyexcellent :) - although the world is going to miss out on my crappy remote apt util! (no great loss I assure you!)02:20
=== seth_k|lappy [n=seth@d-ip-129-15-213-50.wireless.ou.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mpt [n=mpt@tvwna-ip-a-1.princeton.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== schweeb [n=chris@68.77.111.53] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== schweeb [n=chris@68.77.111.53] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== otavio[off] [n=otavio@201.10.58.28] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel
psusiwhen I do a tags-search in emacs, it finds things with that text even in comments... is there a way to limit it to things names of functions?03:59
=== mpt [n=mpt@tvwna-ip-a-1.princeton.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Burgundaviahow did the osnews thread on Flight 1 devolve to images of Trolltech shafting KDE?04:17
crimsunevery thread on osnews degenerates </offtopic>04:18
Burgundaviasad, just sad04:18
zakamehuhu04:19
Lathiathahaha04:19
=== robertj [n=robertj@66-188-77-153.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Burgundaviaok this one cracks me up the most04:20
Burgundaviahttp://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=12721&comment_id=6243604:20
Burgundaviafreedesktop.org is a giant Trolltech conspiracy. I knew it!04:20
Lathiatbahahah04:21
=== psusi is pissed off at the continued lack of proper aio support in linux
desrtman04:41
desrti don't understand why people take screenshots of dapper04:41
desrtit's like "wow it looks exactly like the screenshots for breezy awesome!"04:41
=== mpt_ [n=mpt@tvwna-ip-a-1.princeton.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel
wasabiwonder if there is a way to make all toolbars use small icons04:47
wasabioops wrong window04:48
wasabiwoh04:57
wasabimy ibook just woke up.04:57
wasabii let it fall asleep on accedent, and it just woke04:57
wasabiit's never done that in linux before04:57
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== Gerrath [i=Gerrath@unaffiliated/gerrath] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Burgundaviawhy does everybody and their dog write a media player? Are there not enough in the world alrady?05:05
wasabiSo I was just thinking. Samba sucks.05:06
wasabiI mean, by default.05:06
wasabiWIsh: by default you should be able to install it and it should function just like a WIndows box.05:07
wasabiShould auto hook into pam, auto generate smbpasswd, make sure it's in sync with /etc/passwd.05:07
wasabiNo shares enabled by default, of course, but the basic config should be in place.05:07
Burgundaviathen produce the patches to do that05:08
wasabiThinking about it. :005:08
mptBurgundavia, there are no good ones, which motivates many people enough to write another one, but not enough to write a good one :-)05:09
Burgundaviampt, yes05:10
Burgundaviathe reality with media players is that no perfect one exists to satisfy all people05:10
jbaileywasabi: The password synchronisation is a bitch.  I don't think CIFS tosses passwords around in the same format shadow stores them in.05:15
=== jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has left #ubuntu-devel []
jbaileywasabi: The right solution is Keberos on every machine. =)05:15
wasabiNo, you're right, It doesn't.05:16
wasabiIt's not possible to fix perfectly.05:16
wasabiBut a default samba install should at least inform the user to change his Ubuntu password to activate his Windows access, and automatically set up PAM to do so.05:17
wasabiBasically it should assure he doesn't have to maintain two passwords.05:17
jbaileySynchronisation is teh suck.05:17
wasabiNo way around it, it doesn't use the same hash format.05:18
wasabiand it's one way.05:18
wasabiFor an office, yeah, Kerberos should be used.05:18
wasabiFor a home? Probably not.05:18
jbaileyRight, thus my assertion that Kerberos by default everywhere. =)05:18
wasabiYou tell MS that.05:18
jbaileyAD uses Kerberos internally.05:19
wasabiAD doesn't run on my mom's computer.05:19
jbaileyI don't know what MS does for single sign on in home networks, though.05:19
wasabiThey don't.05:19
wasabiThey just pass hashes.05:19
wasabiAnd then prompt if it's wrong.05:19
Burgundaviaor they let you in without a password05:20
wasabiOnly on 9*. ;)05:20
wasabiOr if you enable guest.05:20
jbaileyBut we *could* do it on home Ubuntu networks.  Opportunistically trust other machines on the local network when someone with root privs says "trust that machine"05:20
jbaileyAnd use that as an opporutnity to send principals back and forth.05:20
wasabiBut we "don't need to."05:20
Burgundaviawasabi, you cannot disable guest on XP Home machiens05:20
wasabi=)05:20
wasabihttp://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/tips/goingsolo.mspx05:21
jbaileywasabi: Sure we do.  I find it annoying that I can't trivially just browse the files on the machines in my network without setting up an account, etc.05:21
wasabiI agree. We can work on that. ;)05:21
wasabiBut for the purposes of getting my dad sharing files with Ubuntu in 2 months.05:21
wasabiHehe.05:21
jbaileyDude, anything like you're thinking of is unlikely to be dapper material.05:22
Burgundaviajbailey, is there a sane fix to the browse problem?05:22
jbaileyHaving samba suddenly twiddle pam is a bit of an invasive change.05:22
wasabiI agree. It would need to be thought out better than what I just blurted out on IRC. ;)05:22
wasabiMaybe a samba-workgroup-config package or something.05:23
wasabiAnyways, I want it to be easy for Mortals.05:23
jbaileyBurgundavia: I haven't though it through, but I'm imagining something like a directory.  When you install the machine it could zeroconf or whatever and say "look, there's a network here.  Trust it?"  And then ask for a password to attach to the other machines or something like that.05:23
wasabiHaving some sort of better pluggable PAM infrastructure would be useful though.05:23
wasabiI am so tired of hand editing these things.05:24
jbaileySimilar to registering a windows or netware machine into their respective security setups.05:24
jbaileyThe ideal bit would be somehow making it version changes to the authentication database so you didn't need a single server.05:24
wasabijbailey: I like that idea... but it raises a lot of questions. ;)05:24
jbaileyGood.  Any idea worth having should. =)05:24
wasabiIn a home I still see each computer of more of an untrusting island.05:25
wasabiWhere any trust between them is always initiated with sceptism, etc.05:25
wasabiPeople bringing in comps for a lan party, peopel driving by, people with work PCs05:25
jbaileyRight.  Have to assume this whole network has real ipv4 addresses and is sitting on the public 'net05:26
wasabiEach system having it's own user base, and then, on first auth, attempting to "link" two accounts between systems.05:26
wasabiFirst time you browse to a PC, it asks you for the user name on that PC, which you type in, and then it asks you if you want to "link" these names, or something.05:26
wasabiBasically just shares some token.05:27
wasabiWould let you bring in a work PC, link it to a home PCs local account, for the purposes of local PC access.05:27
wasabiObviously it would have no meaning on the work network.05:27
wasabiBut isn't this just like remembering passwords? :)05:27
jbaileyRight, but that machine should understand that there are multiple contexts.  tie that in with network manager or something.05:27
wasabiOr the entire idea could just be snipped in the butt, remember passwords, but offer to update changed passwords on other systems.05:28
jbaileyThe problems I want to solve are: 1) If I have files on my wife's machines, I should be able to get them.  2) If my wife has a file on her machine that she wants me to have, I should be able to get it without emailing it through our mail server 6000 km away05:29
wasabiWhy can't you just create an account on your wifes PC?05:29
wasabiAnd access that file through that account from yours?05:29
jbaileyI could, but then I have to remember the password for it.05:29
wasabiThat's basically all we're talking about.05:29
jbaileyAnd that I created it.05:29
Burgundaviawasabi, too much overhead05:29
wasabiNo you don't.05:29
wasabiYou'd have to remember that password just as much as you'd have to remember some mythical token we just talked about.05:29
wasabiFor any system to function you have to a) create a security token on each system involved and store with it information that the other system knows.05:30
jbaileyIt's almost like I want a zeroconf AFS. =)05:30
wasabiCreating a user with a password fulfils that.05:30
wasabiPerhaps it just needs a better interface.05:31
wasabiPerhaps, for instance, the first time you try to access a machine with smb:// that doesn't have a remembered password, you are asked to a) auth or b) create a new remote account05:31
Burgundaviabut that means you need to root account on that box05:32
wasabiYup.05:32
wasabiObviouslyl.05:32
Burgundaviabecause I sure has hell don't want somebody random creating accounts on my box05:32
wasabiExactly.05:32
Burgundaviathat is way too much overhead05:32
wasabiYou don't want that in any system.05:32
wasabiWhat?05:32
wasabiWho else do you propose a system to allow access?05:32
wasabiAI?05:32
wasabiAt some point a human has to step in and say Bob is allowed to access these files.05:32
Burgundaviahow does OS X handle filesharing in a windows network?05:34
wasabiBy default, like we do.05:35
wasabiPrompts for password. Password gets saved.05:35
Burgundaviacan you see shares by default05:35
Burgundavia?05:35
wasabiTo share, it uses samba, but preconfigures it to allow local users access.05:35
wasabiAnd does track password changes.05:35
wasabiDoesn't share any shares by default.05:35
wasabiBut once you turn it on, you can browse (nothing)05:35
=== retrix [n=sam@ppp219-41.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
wasabiactually maybe Home is shared05:36
=== rob1 [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@c-67-172-161-28.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@c-67-172-161-28.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mahanguim just downloading the first dapper image05:56
mahanguhow can I get on the testing team?05:56
Burgundaviamahangu, the laptop testing team?06:01
=== minghu1 [n=minghua@ppp-70-247-52-142.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Burgundaviaminghu1, did you mean the laptop testing team?06:08
wasabijbailey: don't suppose you know much about kerberos eh? You talk about it a lot. ;)06:09
wasabiI've got a horrid problem I'm trying to debug.06:09
minghu1Burgundavia: You probably need to ask whoever you intended to ask again.  Sorry for the nick collision :-)06:11
Burgundaviaminghu1, ah, ok06:12
Burgundaviafor some reason I read your two nicks as the same06:12
Burgundaviathe mind is funny sometimes06:12
=== Kinnison finishes a blog posting about new aranha and heads to bed
Kinnisonnight all06:15
=== mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mahanguhi, did anyone see what I wrote before?06:19
mahangu(I don't wanna ask again, sorry got d/c)06:20
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Burgundaviamahangu, did you want to join the laptop testing team?06:41
=== freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mahangu_Burgundavia, yeah, i run ubuntu on a thinkpad t4206:43
Burgundaviamahangu, ok, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam should get you started06:43
Burgundaviathe key thing is that you test EVERY feature of the laptop and file bugs for everything that doesn't work06:43
Burgundaviaalso install all Flight cds so feedback can come during the development cycle06:44
Burgundaviathere is also a laptop-testing list that you should probably subscribe to06:44
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mahangu_Burgundavia, ill do that06:53
mahangu_:)06:53
Burgundaviamahangu, thanks06:54
mahangu_Burgundavia, for running the devel images07:03
mahangu_i probably shouldn't use my primary work laptop, correct?07:03
Burgundaviamahangu_, you can dual boot07:04
mahangu_Burgundavia, yeah that's true07:08
mahangu_it means ill have to resize the partition im currently running breezy on though07:08
Burgundavianot hard, the installer can do it07:09
=== Amaranth [i=Amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mahangu_Burgundavia, really? without messing my data?07:14
mahangu_i was told to boot xp and use partition magic07:14
Burgundaviayes07:14
Burgundaviano to the second part07:15
=== ajmitch will have to try & rejoin the laptop testing team soon ;)
Burgundaviaajmitch, you getting another one from canonical07:15
ajmitchnot that I've heard07:16
Burgundaviaok07:16
ajmitchI'd be quite surprised if I did07:16
ajmitchI've been checking out what to replace it with07:17
mahangu_ajmitch, you borked your lappy?07:17
ajmitchno, it was stolen07:17
mahangu_whoa07:17
mahangu_:S07:17
mahangu_from where?07:18
ajmitchfrom UBZ, at the hotel07:18
mahangu_UBZ>07:18
mahangu_?07:18
ajmitchUbuntuBelowZero, the developer summit we just had07:18
mahangu_ah07:19
=== spektr [i=aleph0@M980P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel
zakamehi all! :D07:56
zakamejust to make sure, but is build-depending on libgamin-dev preferable to build-depending on libfam-dev?07:56
=== OculusAquilae [n=bastian@p548D39A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== trappist [i=trappist@linuxkungfu.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== neuralis [n=ike@83-131-10-122.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Burgundaviabon soir, neuralis 10:00
neuralisBurgundavia, g'day, sir10:01
Burgundaviahave you started in on the server testing framework yet?10:02
neuralisBurgundavia, nope, the specs are in mdz's queue10:02
Burgundaviaah10:02
neuralisBurgundavia, i want to make sure he's happy with them, after which i'll also mail laptop-list re: using the backend for laptops 10:03
Burgundaviaexcellent10:03
neuralisBurgundavia, and i've mailed malc re: laptop certification, without response so far10:03
Burgundaviahave you spoken with mjg59 regarding what specifically he needs from the reports?10:03
Burgundaviaand if you have, is that recorded somewhere?10:04
neuralisno -- i want to address any concerns mdz has *first*, and then fan out and talk to the rest of the people10:05
Burgundaviaok10:05
neuralisno worries, it's on my list, it'll get done10:06
=== mojo85 [n=mojo@60-240-159-37.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mojo85I suggest the 'Add Application' app and 'Sumit Hardware' app should use icons of the new naming scheme (Tango project)10:22
=== lfittl [n=lfittl@83-65-243-186.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zakame [n=Josh@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pef [n=loic@ubuntu/member/pef] has joined #ubuntu-devel
pefhello10:37
=== OculusAquilae [n=oculus@p548D39A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-182-174.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== MagnusR [n=magru@85.194.14.142] has joined #ubuntu-devel
MagnusRmag runes10:47
MagnusRfoobar10:47
MagnusRWrong window, sorry!10:47
neuralisJaneW, we need to make ubuntu plushies. cute, stuffed animals that i can give to people. anything in the works? :)10:48
=== herzi [n=herzi@d014080.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== moyogo [n=moyogo@117pc104.ucu-vb.uu.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== wjb [n=warren@c220-237-178-175.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Lathiatneuralis: we could have little plush dragons ;)10:56
=== Lathiat hides from the raging mob
neuralisLathiat, +1. but i'd settle for a duck, if it were dapper enough.10:58
=== Lathiat grins
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A60E9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== lbm [n=lbm@130.225.243.71] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== trs81 [n=trs80@203-166-239-167.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== grover [n=grover@216-99-218-29.dsl.aracnet.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ozamosi [n=ozamosi@h105n3c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu__ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.135.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== dr88dr88 [n=gerrit@f145072.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jsz [n=diego@59.Red-80-36-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== spektr_ [i=aleph0@M1091P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-144-104.bas502.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== spektr_ is now known as spektr
=== freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel
\shinfinity / lamont-away: could one of you two check where the last upload of armagetron is hiding? latest uploaded version is 0.2.7.0-1.1ubuntu1 and it didn't appear in the buildlogs01:20
=== ptlo [n=senko@83-131-84-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Hirion [n=Hirion@p5487EE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
\shelmo: please sync dnprogs from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok01:46
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
jbaileywasabi: I've done two smallish kerberos deployments (about a dozen servers in each one.  One with about a hundred users, one with three users and a whole bunch of service principals)01:48
jbaileywasabi: I have to Oreilly Kerberos book here if you have specific questions.01:48
=== mahangu__ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A6096C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== moyogo [n=moyogo@117pc104.ucu-vb.uu.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== dunerecords [n=johannes@p54990CE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== loo [n=loo@u-124-094.adsl.univie.ac.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== neuralis_ [n=ike@83-131-17-70.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
ptloneuralis_ hi :)03:11
neuralis_ptlo, hey03:12
=== neuralis_ is now known as neuralis
=== freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-77-39-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== marcin [n=user@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jane_ [n=JaneW@wbs-146-182-174.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
slomo_BenC: the ppc kernel build failure didn't disappear with the new binutils :(03:50
BenCslomo_: assuming I can keep kernel-package updated to the latest ppc/powerpc changes, it will build in -4.403:51
BenCI disabled HMT and NUMA for ppc64 to get that building03:51
slomo_BenC: ok, thanks... when can we expect -4.4?03:51
BenCtomorrow03:52
BenC-rc2 was tagged today, so seems like a good time (ppc64->powerpc merge is done now too, so it helps a lot)03:52
slomo_hehe, maybe i can finally try the newest bcm43xx driver then ;) seems like they made great progress in the last days03:53
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
HiddenWolfBenC, anything cool in -4.4?03:58
BenChiddenwolf: devmem patch from fedora, enabled ACPI_BLACKLIST=2000, should build on sparc and ia64 now03:59
BenClots of little changes aswell03:59
HiddenWolfBenC, sparc and ia64 are on the road to being officially supported?04:00
=== _jason [n=jason@dhcp0534.hrn.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel
BenCno idea, but I know that fabbione is pushing to get sparc to be a first class citizen04:01
fabbioneHiddenWolf: not yet no04:01
HiddenWolfI'm amazed that interest for IA64 is so consistent.04:01
fabbionethere is nobody other than lamont giving love to ia6404:01
fabbioneHiddenWolf: who is asking for it?04:03
HiddenWolffabbione, ah, no. not specifically.04:04
=== BenC would like his i2k to be useful, but that's not asking much
fabbioneBenC: i am getting an ia64 soon04:04
HiddenWolffabbione, but afaik IA64 isn't called itanic for no reason. :)04:04
fabbioneHiddenWolf: you mean Titanic?04:04
fabbione;)04:04
BenCwith all the support behind x86-64, I don't think ia64 is viable anymore04:04
HiddenWolfBenC, anandtech had an article on why IA64 was the most promising architecture, beating Sparc and PPC and X86. 04:06
HiddenWolfBenC, that was on technical merit tho, not viability.04:06
BenChidden: it's a marketing failure though04:06
HiddenWolfBenC, Both a marketing and a sales failure, really.04:06
=== sajd [n=sajd@c80-217-193-226.cm-upc.chello.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel
fabbioneHiddenWolf: well..  sparc is still used a lot more compared to ia6404:07
BenCsparc64 would be a lot better if 64-bit code actually ran decent compared to 32-bit code04:08
BenCas it is, 64-bit is reserved for when you have to have that much addressing04:08
BenCotherwise it's a performance hit04:08
HiddenWolffabbione, anand's point was more: It'll scale better to future performance.04:10
fabbioneHiddenWolf: sounds like they did send a lot of ia64 to these people writing the review04:12
BenCfabbione: uploading new kernel-package now04:12
fabbioneBenC: cool04:13
fabbioneBenC: is it going to build on sparc?04:13
fabbioneah meh04:13
fabbionenever mind04:13
dokonice, dapper_probs lists the whole archive as uninstallable04:13
HiddenWolfdoko, why?!04:13
fabbioneBenC: i read "new kernel source"04:13
fabbioneHiddenWolf: ia64 is taking over archive.ubuntu.com!04:14
HiddenWolffabbione, cool. :P04:14
fabbioneimpressive04:14
fabbioneout of 6 arches04:14
dokoHiddenWolf: tell me04:14
fabbionesparc is the one that can still install more than all the others :D04:14
BenCfabbione: have you tried compiling -4 on sparc yet?04:15
fabbioneBenC: no04:15
BenCI should hook up my e3k in here just temporarily tonight04:15
fabbionei did let the buildd catch up04:15
HiddenWolfdoko, have you upped OOo2 final to Dapper yet?04:16
dokoHiddenWolf: go for it if you want ;-P04:17
HiddenWolfdoko, ehm...04:18
=== bmonty_laptop [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamiondoko: uninstallables> please rebuild python against openssl 0.9.804:25
Kamionpython2.4 that is04:25
dokoahh, ok ...04:25
Kamionwe need to get openssl097 into the archive though, so that this isn't so destructive04:25
Kamionelmo: should openssl097 still be listed as broken?04:26
Kamionelmo: I think probably not - if you could remove it from josie's broken list and do an auto-sync, the uninstallables list would appreciate it :-)04:27
=== mahangu__ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionelmo: in fact it probably won't autosync because it's modified - I'll merge04:35
=== blueyed [n=daniel@pdpc/supporter/active/blueyed] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamiondoko: ok, I've uploaded a merged openssl097; the world should look somewhat better once that makes it into the archive04:43
Kamionwe should still get rid of libssl0.9.7 linkage where possible04:43
=== rtcm [n=jman@213.146.193.80] has joined #ubuntu-devel
BenCit's bad when you have to get a dolly to move a computer from one side of the room to the other04:48
=== zeedo [n=zeedo@80.68.92.188] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mahanguBenC, eh?04:49
ograBenC, thats not bad ... bad is if you have to get a team *and* a dolly to move it 04:50
mahanguif I have a development idea (which i have half implemented), who can I talk to?04:51
BenCworst ever for me was that the dolly wasn't strong enough to hold the computer04:51
BenCtook six people, and the computer was never actually lift off the ground, we had to lean it into a trailer to transport it04:51
HiddenWolfmahangu, just talk here. :)04:52
mahanguok04:52
mahanguwell, i haven't written a primer or anything04:52
mahangubut im working on this live support system for distros04:52
mahangubasically, i noticed that many new users dont know how to get on IRC04:52
BenCmahangu: you must pass the six tests of Ubuntu, and climb to the highest peak in Africa :)04:52
mahanguso I figured, why not write a nice front end for it?04:52
mahanguim new to perl and linux, but i did a hack job, and got a working prototype04:53
dokoKamion: uploaded python2.4 as well to link against 0.9.804:53
mahanguit's basically a bot that interfaces between a thin GTK client and a support channel04:53
Kamionmahangu: the biggest problem with that sort of thing is generally setting up an appropriate support channel; #ubuntu is too busy and basically inappropriate for that sort of thing04:54
mahanguGTK client connects to IRC network --> spews data in channel (this is basically username, contact email and help request)04:54
mahanguKamion, I'm aware of that :) just getting there04:54
Kamiondoko: thanks04:54
mahanguso basically, there will have to be a seperate channel for it04:54
mahangulike #distroname-support04:54
mahanguso far, the folks at Taprobane (www.taprobane.org) , a local GNU / Linux distro seem to like the idea04:54
mahanguand im working on it04:54
mahangui havent implemented a client yet04:55
mahangubut the bot so far04:55
mahangu1) scans the support channel for activity04:55
mahanguif there is activity, channels request there04:55
mahangu2) if no activity sends to support-mailing-list04:55
mahanguany thoughts?04:55
mahangui was just thinking while handing out Ubuntu CDs the other day that none of the people I was giving them to would even know what IRC was04:56
KamionI'm wondering if it's complementary to https://launchpad.net/support, or if the two fill basically the same use case04:56
mahanguso their support was minimal04:56
Kamionwell, let's say https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+tickets, better URL04:57
mahanguKamion, yeah, id say it'l work really well with that04:57
mahanguagain, i have some pretty sparse code on the Taprobane CVS04:57
mahanguanyone think it's worth a shot?04:57
=== ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel
mahanguim not really an experienced coder, and have never been to CS school04:58
=== Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-77-39-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel []
mahangubut im quick to learn and am willing to dedicate a big portion of my time to see this through04:58
Kamionmy main concern is that IRC is actually kind of a poor medium for real customer support04:58
Kamionare you sure you want to use it as the backend?04:59
mahanguKamion, isn't it a stable means of communication? rather than doing all that handshaking on our own?04:59
Kamionit's very vulnerable to noise, inappropriate comments, etc.04:59
mahanguKamion, yes04:59
mahangui have a solution (I think)04:59
Kamionand you have to sit online for ever to get a response, which is pretty awkward if you have a pay-for line04:59
mahanguKamion, yeah that's why it sends unanswered requests to the mailing list05:00
mahanguthe client will tell the user05:00
Kamionit's better if responses can come back to you asynchronously and you can log in to find if somebody's answered05:00
mahangu"Sorry looks like no one is aorund, I've sent your request to the mailing lit"05:00
mahanguKamion, hmm, that would be neat05:00
Kamionwhy not just do everything through a mailing list then? it's confusing to have two means of communication05:00
mahanguKamion, oh right05:01
mahanguso a mailing list front end05:01
mahanguthat's a lot of text manip though05:01
Kamionor, as I say, the Launchpad support tracker - you have the asynchronous communication there05:01
mahangustripping mail signatures etc?05:01
mahanguKamion, that is web based, right?05:01
Kamionand if you talked to the folks on #launchpad they might be able to expose an XML-RPC interface for you05:01
Kamionright05:01
mahangui was thinking of a GTK application05:02
mahanguof course05:02
mahanguyes, i understand what you are saying05:02
=== mahangu ponders
mahanguwhat is the (average) turn around time for a launchpad reply?05:02
KamionI'm not saying you shouldn't pursue an IRC-backed option, just suggesting that you might not want to get too hung up on IRC for this, that's all :)05:02
Kamionno idea - it's never actually been advertised anywhere so the people using it are the people who happen to have come across it05:02
Kamion(so far)05:02
mahanguyeah I understand05:02
mahanguKamion, where can I find one or more devs with a little free time who might like to run through some ideas with me?05:03
mahanguKamion, http://cvs.taprobane.org/viewcvs.py/taprobane/hermes/hermes.pl?rev=1.7&view=log05:03
Kamionfor launchpad, or in general?05:03
mahanguKamion, well in general05:03
Kamionhmm, I guess here's as good as any for IRC, or try the ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list; it's always better to find somewhere specific if possible though05:05
mahanguKamion, thanks, ill try05:06
Kamion(I'm mostly doing other things at the moment though, I'm afraid)05:06
mahangunp05:07
=== tuhl [n=tuhl@p5498C646.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== desrt head-scratches
=== tuhl [n=tuhl@p5498C646.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== jk [n=jochem@jkossen.nl] has joined #Ubuntu-devel
mahanguback05:31
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
\shelmo: please sync grip from unstable, ubuntu changes can be dropped thx05:35
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A64310.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mae [n=mae@dpc674653178.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mjcc [i=pat@14.Red-213-97-177.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== trulux [n=lorenzo@unaffiliated/trulux] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== dand [n=dand@86.105.65.80] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Hirion [n=Hirion@p5487EE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Hirion [n=Hirion@p5487EE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Kaloz [i=kaloz@arrakis.dune.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== greenpenguin11 [n=joseph@user-4451.l5.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== greenpenguin11 [n=joseph@user-4451.l5.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel []
=== cassidy [n=cassidy@f1-pc174.ulb.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== vuntz [n=vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== carstenh [n=carstenh@mkfw.fh-trier.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== marcin [n=user@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== jsz [n=diego@59.Red-80-36-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== greenpenguin13 [n=joseph@user-4451.l5.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== HWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.135.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== greenpenguin13 [n=joseph@user-4451.l5.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel []
desrtso what's the story on 2.6.15?07:47
wasabiOnce upon a time, a long time ago, there was a kernel.07:48
\shelmo: please sync k3b-i18n from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes ok07:49
desrtno.  seriously07:57
desrtthere are a few bugs that i'm waiting to see if the new kernel will fry07:57
HiddenWolfdesrt, it's in, but unstable.07:58
desrtso why doesn't it show up on apt-get dist-upgrade?07:58
\shelmo: please sync kdirstat from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes ok08:00
fabbionedesrt: because PPC is still FTBFS on the buildd08:01
fabbionedesrt: it should be fixed with tomorrow08:01
fabbione's upload08:01
desrtah.  excellent08:01
desrtcan you do me a favour, fabio?08:01
fabbionepossibly08:01
desrtview this document :)08:01
desrthttp://desrt.mcmaster.ca/random/new-key.asc08:01
desrtalso: explain why there are 2 'b's in your name :)08:01
=== Danten [n=danten@h28n15c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #Ubuntu-devel
fabbionethe second B stands for Big08:02
fabbionelike Big Fabio -> fabbione in italian08:03
desrtah.  i see.08:03
tsengdesrt: he has a tshirt that says Ride The Italian Stalion08:03
fabbioneno08:03
tsengthere is no modesty to be had here08:03
fabbioneit says: "Italian Stallion" with Ferrari's font08:03
desrti should count my blessings that i didn't see it :)08:03
tsenghaha08:03
jbaileyfabbione: So what should elmo's shirt say?08:03
jbaileyWhat's the elmo doll called in Italy? =)08:04
fabbionejbailey: "I ride katie?"08:04
fabbionedunno..08:04
fabbionei never seen that dolls in italy08:04
desrtjbailey; i shall be in montreal in january08:04
jbaileydesrt: Why are you coming here in the coldest month of the year? =)08:04
desrtjbailey; it's called CUSEC08:04
desrtcanadian university software engineering conference08:05
desrtat concordia/mcgill08:05
desrta lot of my friends are going and they didn't have a very difficult time convicing me to come along08:06
fabbionedesrt: dude..08:06
fabbioneyour new key is sick08:06
desrtfabbione; i love it :)08:06
fabbione3360R ???08:06
jbaileydesrt: Ah, nice.  I should poke my head in there.08:06
fabbionemake it 4096 and get over it08:06
desrtjbailey; you certainly should08:06
desrtfabbione; 4096 is for posers :)08:06
fabbioneyeah right08:07
fabbioneyou are jalous that my "key" is bigger than your08:07
desrti wanted more security without doing the cliche thing of choosing the biggest possible key08:07
desrtso i put in 333308:07
desrtand it rounded up to 336008:07
jbailey3333 rounded to 3360?08:07
jbaileyThis isn't on an old style Pentium, is it? =)08:07
desrtby gpg logic, yes08:07
desrtold-style pentium 4 :)08:08
desrtfabbione; so i guess you have a 4096bit rsa key?08:08
fabbionedesrt: 2 of them08:09
fabbione+ a standard 1024 DSA08:09
desrtfabbione; you deserve the second 'b'08:09
\shelmo: please sync gnome-themes-extras, overriding ubuntu changes ok...thx08:09
fabbionedesrt: i know i do :)08:10
desrtan interesting dos attack would be to create a new strong set08:12
desrtjust crank out 100s of thousands of keys and have them all sign each other08:12
desrtthen upload the resulting mess to some poor keyserver08:12
fabbionedesrt: you would only notice a suddenly increase of keys on the keyservers08:13
fabbioneit won't affect the strongset08:13
desrtfabbione; yes it would08:13
fabbionenopr08:13
fabbionenope08:13
fabbioneonly if one of the key is crosssigned with the strongset08:13
desrtbecause my new group of keys would be the new strongset08:13
fabbionenope08:13
fabbionethe strong set is not detected08:13
desrt"the strongset" is defined as the largest set08:13
fabbionethe starting point of the strong set is known :)08:14
fabbionethis is a limitation in basically all the tools that do key stats08:14
Kamiondesrt: it's only a DoS attack on people who don't hardcode the strong set. :)08:14
desrtthe only way to fix that would be to say that the strong set is the set with my key in it08:14
desrt:)08:14
Kamionso more a Denial of Theory attack08:14
fabbioneKamion: exactly08:14
desrtthere exists, i understand, another set of size 9808:15
desrtsomeone needs to cosign those guys in :)08:15
fabbionedesrt: see.. the point is that prople like you tend to disappear very fast from the net after an attack like that08:15
fabbionedesrt: there are over 2M keys on the keyserver and afaik the strongset is ~200K08:16
fabbioneso there is more or less a ratio to 1:1008:16
desrtthat's weird08:16
fabbioneno it's not08:16
fabbionemost of the keys in there are single keys08:17
desrtit means that only 1 in 10 keys are effectively signed08:17
fabbionethat never signed or being signed08:17
desrtso weird08:17
=== herzi [n=herzi@c151144.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
desrtanyway... have you noticed with rsa keys08:17
fabbionei don't find it weird08:17
desrtsome keyservers think that they have different fingerprints08:17
fabbionea lot of people upload keys only becuase they have been told to reading the gpg howto08:18
fabbioneand gave away the key one minute later08:18
desrtsome of the web-based interfaces seem to use md5 checksums for rsa keys08:18
fabbionedesrt: yeah.. old format08:18
desrtkinnison bought me a lovely purple book in montreal08:18
desrti've written my key fingerprint inside of the cover in sha1 format08:19
desrti really hope i don't have to erase it :p08:19
fabbioneeheh08:19
fabbionehttp://keyserver.kjsl.com/~jharris/ka/2005-11-13/top50table.html08:20
fabbionedesrt: ^^08:20
fabbionejust about in the middle08:20
=== rtcm [n=jman@81.84.150.197] has joined #ubuntu-devel
desrtFabio M. Di Nitto08:20
desrtmako is quite high on the list, hm?08:21
fabbioneyeah08:21
Treenakswhee, I'm 84908:21
fabbionebut mako also travels N times as much as i used to08:21
desrti wonder how i can determine my rank08:21
desrtmy msd is a rather pathetic 5.something08:21
desrtactually08:22
desrtinteresting08:22
desrtif you sign my key with a key that has MSD x08:22
desrtthen my key automatically has a MSD of at most x+108:22
fabbionedesrt: right08:22
desrtcool08:22
desrtsign me up!08:22
fabbioneso in the next calculation you will jump up to death08:22
desrtdeath?08:22
=== ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-179-134.bas504.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
desrtyou are 3.819908:22
desrtso i will probably be very slightly less than 4.819908:23
fabbionei am 25, 271, 75108:23
sivangdesrt: what kind of book is it?08:23
fabbioneand you got signed by all of them08:23
desrtsivang; just a notebook08:23
desrter08:23
desrtdid you just upload to the keyserver?08:23
fabbionedesrt: look at your email08:23
sivangdesrt: ah , I thought some interesting technical book :)08:23
fabbione+ you need to sign me too08:23
sivangfabbione: keysining over IRC ? ;-)08:23
desrtah08:23
desrtexcellent08:23
fabbionesivang: no08:23
fabbionei had his documents and keys already08:24
desrtgpg:         new signatures: 308:24
desrtgpg: sending key AFAA6FF6 to hkp server keyserver.ubuntu.com08:24
desrtthanks08:24
fabbionedesrt: you need to sign my keys08:24
desrtjust let me verify that the keys that just signed me are the keys that i signed with my old key :)08:24
desrtwait08:24
fabbioneoh btw08:24
desrtdid you accept my signatures?08:24
fabbioneyour script is broken08:24
desrtor ignore them?08:24
fabbioneno i couldn't08:25
desrtit's scott's script :)08:25
fabbionegpg was complaning about the mail format being broken08:25
fabbioneand didn't import08:25
desrtodd08:25
fabbionei use scott script08:25
sivangdesrt: use Kinnison's , they are great :)08:25
fabbionethat was not scott's script output08:25
desrtdaniel's are so overkill :)08:25
desrtweird.08:25
desrti made some very minor modifications to it08:25
fabbionewell.. fix them08:26
desrtlike having gpg ask me the passphrase each time instead of the perl script doing it08:26
desrtand if i say something other than '2' it asks me "are you sure?"08:26
desrtnothing to do with the format of the mail08:26
fabbionewell the output mail was somehow corrupted08:26
fabbioneand i couldn't import them08:26
desrtand i signed your key before the mods :)08:27
desrthmmmmm08:27
desrtthis is a problem08:27
desrtbecause i am no longer sure what keys i signed08:27
desrtlemme go through my things and see if i can find the piece of paper you gave me08:27
fabbionedesrt: btw... with my signature, you will be 4 hops from Linus :)08:30
desrtlinus sucks.  i want rms!08:30
desrt:)08:30
\shhmmm...08:31
desrt(i'm already 3 hops from rms)08:31
\shis collecting "gpg signatures" something like collecting autographs from VIPs?08:31
desrtabsolutely :)08:31
fabbione\sh: gpg is more fun08:31
sivang\sh: judging by the current discussion, seems so :)08:32
desrtwith gpg you can publish your signature collection to the world to brag08:32
desrtwithout fear of someone stealing the signatures08:32
sivangdesrt: how come ?08:32
desrtfabbione; so why 3 keys?08:33
fabbionedesrt: 1 (old) debian 2 (new) debian 3) canonical/ubuntu08:33
\shhmmm...then I'm proud to have actually a signature of kinnison and lamot...which gives me a real hard on ... but linus or rms..who wants them? ,)08:33
fabbionedesrt: but i still use all 3 of them08:33
\shlamont even08:33
desrtKinnison; !08:33
desrtkinnison and keybuk said they would sign my keys, accepted my fingerprint and have not yet done so!08:34
fabbionekids...08:34
fabbionedesrt: gpg keysign is not "push me to sign your key"08:34
fabbioneit happens when it happens08:34
fabbioneit's not like sex that needs to finish asap ;)08:34
desrtyou sound very zen :)08:34
fabbionei have learned that08:35
fabbioneit took me a year to get my key signed by Martin Schulze08:35
desrtwho is that?08:35
fabbionejust because he kept forgetting08:35
fabbionebut he did08:35
\shfabbione: "needs to finish asap"? 08:35
=== desrt smiles
fabbionesex is an obsolete and ancient form of fum08:35
fabbionefun08:35
fabbioneit's much better to play PS208:35
=== desrt blinks
fabbioneehehhe08:35
desrtyour wife agrees?08:36
fabbioneok i am off to spend sometime with my wife08:36
desrthah!08:36
fabbionedesrt: sometimes ;)08:36
desrtenjoy the playstation08:36
=== \sh has neither sex or a ps2 ... so I'm a real weirdo
fabbionethanks08:36
fabbione\sh: than you are screwed08:36
\shwhich reminds me, that this is real OT 08:36
fabbione\sh: on a sunday evening?08:37
fabbioneOT?08:37
fabbioneok08:37
\shfabbione: i'm not screwed08:37
fabbioneis there anybody in here that wants to talk about Ubuntu Devel? ;)08:37
desrti think i've thought about a way to hax0r Kinnison's scripts08:37
fabbionedesrt: you are welcome to try with one of my keys08:37
fabbionebut please don't flood me with mails08:38
fabbionejust use the one with the less amount of UID08:38
desrtno... i mean getting daniel to sign a false uid08:38
fabbioneyou can't08:38
desrthe puts the fingerprints of keys that he trusts08:38
=== loo is now known as loogaroo
desrtand reruns his script every now and again so that if a new UID got added it sends an email there08:38
sivangdesrt: I have my key signed by daniel, but still hadn't had chance to sign his ...:-/ It's been SO hectic in work since I returned from UBZ, so much backlog08:38
fabbioneyeah08:38
desrtso just add a new uid with a valid email and a fake name08:39
fabbionedesrt: nope..08:39
fabbionethat doesn't work08:39
desrthis script checks the name?08:39
fabbionebecuase the script checks if the UID has been signed by the master key08:39
desrtyes08:39
fabbioneyou would need to trick a lot the key to do so08:39
desrti'm saying adding a fake uid to my own key08:40
desrtso i have 2 uids08:40
desrtRyan Lortie <desrt@desrt.ca>08:40
desrtJesus H. Christ <jesus@desrt.ca>08:40
fabbioneeven so, the fake uid is still binded to your primary key08:40
desrti bet daniel's script would sign the 2nd uid08:40
fabbioneeven if you kill Ryan Lortie08:40
fabbioneyou can still see it in the key08:40
desrtwrong08:40
fabbionedesrt: yes it will sign08:40
fabbionedesrt: you are wrong08:40
desrtsince i know p and q i can remove ryan lortie from the key08:40
fabbioneyou can revoke the uid08:40
desrti can generate a new key without 'ryan lortie' in it that has the same fingerprint08:40
fabbioneyou can't delete it forever08:40
fabbionedesrt: good luck :)08:41
fabbionelet me know when you have done ;)08:41
desrti don't want to do it08:41
fabbionegotta go08:41
desrti'd totally fuck up my key in the process :)08:41
fabbionelater08:41
desrtciao!08:41
\shfabbione: hf08:42
Kamionfabbione: oh, for the sake of some actual relevant conversation :-), I've implemented most of the stuff you need for whatever that server rescue mode thing was08:43
sivangKamion: is it GUI in any sense?08:44
Kamionno08:44
Kamionif you want that, use a live CD08:44
Kamionrescue mode is not designed for prettiness, it's designed for "oh my god my system is hosed help me"08:44
loogaroohi08:46
sivangKamion: ah I see. Me and Corey discussed that it would be nice to have a GUI rescue mode for a "desktopish" installation, for the sake of "regular users" (tm)08:48
=== chris38-home [n=Christia@LSt-Amand-152-31-26-96.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivangcan anyone comment if I'm better off using glade-gnome-2 for doing a GUI app in PyGTK or gazpacho?08:50
slomo_sivang: whatever appeals more to you... both create valid glade files so...08:52
sivangslomo_: ah nice, I was afraid there were some incompatibilities that might have prevented use of one over the other08:52
\shbut gazpacho is sometimes segfaulting...when it comes to glade glade files08:55
sivang\sh: what's glade glade files?08:55
\shsivang: glade-2 .glade files08:55
sivang\sh: aren't we always using glade-2 .glade files? (or is gazpacho producing glade-1 files?)08:56
\shsivang: well..actually we're using xml files (which are .glade files) but gazpacho sometimes doesn't work as expected..it crashed e.g. when I wanted to edit gajims glade file with it..08:57
sivang\sh: I see thanks for the tip. I'm already pretty used to working with glade-2 so I'll default to that :)08:58
=== lfittl [n=lfittl@83-65-243-186.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Valandil [n=chrys@dslb-084-056-117-052.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionsivang: that use case is fulfilled by the live CD08:58
Kamionwe don't have resources to help out with the graphical installer at the moment, unfortunately08:59
sivangKamion: I understand. Not a problem, good the know the use case is taken care of.09:00
\shhmmm....when fabbione is only 4 hops from linus...09:08
\shi'm only 3 hops from linus ,(09:09
\sh,)09:09
=== kyncani [n=kyncani@lns-bzn-40-82-251-161-21.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
sivang\sh: then if you sign my key I'm 5 hopes from linux?09:13
sivangerr, s/linux/linus/09:14
slomo_BenC: is -4.4 including the softmac patch? you can get it from here ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/bcm43xx/09:14
BenCI just synced the latest svn today, saw the softmac log entry09:15
slomo_the stuff in svn uses softmac but the patch from that ftp is still needed afaik09:19
=== spektr_ [i=aleph0@M1008P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== spektr_ is now known as spektr
=== sivang [i=sivan@muse.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== doko [n=doko@dslb-084-059-107-098.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== HWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.90.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== spektr [i=aleph0@M1008P007.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Konversation]
=== ogra_ [n=ogra@p5089CCAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Loevborg [n=loevborg@d4-84.dip.axsp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mdz [n=mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== xTina [n=xTina@p54A24D01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== daniels [n=daniels@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== mdz [n=mdz@ca-studio-bsr1o-251.vnnyca.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
\shkillall -FIX  buildd 10:37
=== Bonzodog [n=simon@unaffiliated/bonzodog] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Jimbob [n=jcape@c-67-175-222-235.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== hunger [n=hunger@p54A628ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kinnisondesrt: so impatient11:03
desrtSIGN MY KEYS, BITCHES!!!11:04
desrt<ahem>11:04
=== moyogo [n=moyogo@117pc104.ucu-vb.uu.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel
desrtbtw.  did you read my hypothetical attack against your keysign scripts?11:06
Kinnisonno, where's that?11:07
desrtbasically, it goes like this:11:07
desrti add a new uid to my key "Jesus H. Christ <jesus@desrt.ca>" and upload it to the keyservers11:07
desrtthen a few months later you re-run your script11:08
desrt(implied: i can receive email at jesus@desrt.ca)11:08
KinnisonNice try11:08
=== Kinnison did say, very clearly, "READ THE OUTPUT OF 'make xref' CAREFULLY"
desrthm.  fair enough :)11:08
=== zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
\shI didn't know that  Jesus had a middle name11:10
\sh,-)11:11
slomodaniels: will you update the whole driver stuff to 7.0 for dapper? or will we stay with 6.8?11:11
Kamionslomo: it's mostly updated already but FTBFS due to a glibc bug, which is being fixed11:12
slomoKamion: ok, thanks... btw, the new binutils seem to have a bug... or cairo has... debian bts #34007311:13
=== cribeiro [n=cribeiro@201.19.158.119] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== Ja1 [n=kuznik@kuznik.gepro.cz] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kamionslomo: thanks, RC bugs from Debian are already automatically imported into bugzilla for us11:14
Kamion(I saw that bug in my Ubuntu bugs folder a few minutes ago, so I know it worked ...)11:14
=== Ja1 [n=kuznik@kuznik.gepro.cz] has left #ubuntu-devel []
slomook ;) but it's a bug in binutils imho... only shows up in cairo and they worked around it11:15
Kamionok, I'm not the binutils maintainer so you're talking to the wrong guy ...11:19
=== Jimbob is now known as jcape
elmoslomo: no, it's not a bug in binutils11:20
elmoit a) doesn't only show up in cario, and b) is a genuine bug in cario and the other places it's shown up (e.g. glibc)11:20
slomoelmo: ok... thanks for clarifying... so an INT_ prefix is dropped by binutils? or what was the mistake?11:21
Kinnisondesrt: Hmm, the xref wants to sign your key11:21
Kinnisondesrt: I think I'll let it, this time :-)11:21
=== schweeb [n=chris@d14-69-197-20.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
Kinnisondesrt: chocks away11:24
=== jcape [n=jcape@c-67-175-222-235.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel
desrtthanks11:26
desrti do think i've signed your key... but it's not on the servers11:26
KinnisonI have a bunch of key stuff to merge11:27
desrtgotcha.11:27
Kinnison33 mails11:27
=== Kinnison fetches 'em
=== desrt wonders if your dob on your key is for extra security or so people will never forget your birthday :)
Kinnisonmostly it's because I put it there a long time ago thinking it was a good idea, and then didn't want to deal with revoking the uid etc11:28
desrtah.  i see.11:29
=== schweeb [n=chris@ubuntu/member/schweeb] has joined #ubuntu-devel
desrtdo you know if there is a program that is better at manipulating ascii-armor than gpg?11:31
Kinnisonmanipulating in what sense?11:31
desrtlike something that will show you what information a particular sniplet contains and let you add/remove bits to it11:31
=== Kinnison merges 32 signatures
=== desrt feels his msd drop ever so slightly
=== Kinnison gently cradles desrt's msd
desrt:)11:33
desrtwanna hear something weird?11:33
desrta bunch of the keyservers out there refuse to call my key 'afaa6ff6' and call it some other thing instead11:33
desrtthey use md5 as the hash, i think?11:34
Kinnisonseems unlikely11:34
\shKinnison: somehow evolution don't want to play nice..now i have to copy'n'paste your mail into vi and save the file..11:37
\shCould not parse S/MIME message11:37
\shgpg: armor header: Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)11:37
desrthttp://wwwkeys.ch.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=desrt11:37
desrtobserve11:37
Kinnison\sh: odd, evo on breezy seems fine with them11:37
desrtpub  3360/4BC2F68B 2005/11/05 Ryan Lortie <desrt@desrt.ca>11:37
Kinnison\sh: then again, I tend to paste them into gpg --import anyway11:37
\shKinnison: evo on dapper doesn't like it11:38
=== Kinnison blames new evo :-)
Kamiondesrt: bug handling keys of your wacky key length, maybe? (random uninformed guess)11:39
desrtKamion; that's one of my guesses too except that somewhere i saw that it was using an md5 for my key fingerprint11:40
desrt(or md5, i assume... it was 128bits)11:40
=== desrt has a tendancy to exercise bugs in software :)
Kinnisondesrt: It may be a hiccough in RSA handling11:41
KinnisonI.E. the keyserver may assume an RSA key is not v411:41
desrtnod11:41
Kinnisonv3 keys had md5-looking fingerprints11:41
Kamiondesrt: first, get it straight - are you wondering about the keyid, or the fingerprint?11:41
desrtKamion; both11:41
desrtKamion; the keyid, i think, is incorrect by virtue of coming from a fingerprint done with a different hash11:42
desrthttp://wwwkeys.ch.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=desrt%40desrt.ca&fingerprint=on&exact=on11:42
=== segfault [i=carlos@ubuntu/member/segfault] has joined #ubuntu-devel
desrt     Key fingerprint = FA 2C B4 95 EC 16 6F 0C  0E CD AA FB E9 A6 38 A111:42
desrtweird, eh?11:42
desrtdoes the proper sha fingerprint for the DSA key but does (i guess md5?) for the RSA11:43
Kamionyes, as Kinnison says, RSA v3 key fingerprints were MD5, RSA v4 fingerprints are SHA-111:43
desrti wonder, then... if someone got my rsa key with a v3 version of pgp might they try to encrypt to me using my signing key? :)11:44
Kamionbut you should really ask the keyserver admins - I doubt many people here can do more than guess11:44
=== Bonzodog [n=simon@unaffiliated/bonzodog] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"]
=== psusi [n=phreak@103.202.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ptlo [n=senko@83-131-31-31.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!