=== zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [12:09] any server admin here? [12:09] GPG error on nl.archive.ubuntu.com [12:09] W: GPG error: http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com breezy Release: Unknown error executing gpgv [12:10] W: GPG error: http://nl.archive.ubuntu.com breezy-updates Release: Unknown error executing gpgv [12:12] HiddenWolf : Only recently? [12:12] Znarl, yes [12:13] wait 30 minutes and retry [12:13] crimsun, what changed? [12:13] more than likely, it's syncing [12:14] dunno about 'breezy' [12:14] Znarl, isn't it still a redirect to archive.u.c? [12:16] nl has recently changed to a mirror. === Brunellus [n=luigi@ip68-100-18-88.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:23] stupid question. how do I send a bug report using the bug reporting tool? it seems to want to use sendmail; how can I tell it to send the mail through my SMTP server? [12:26] HiddenWolf : OK, I've pointed nl back at the master archive site. [12:27] Znarl, I didn't ask you to, was just alerting you to that error. :) [12:34] HiddenWolf : Ok, I'll change it back. [12:36] Znarl, I didn't ask you to do that either. :) [12:36] Znarl, do what is right. I have no clue what's causing this. === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:37] HiddenWolf : Bug me again if it continues to happen in an hour, ok? [12:39] Znarl, nog gonna happen. It's 12:30 at night. [12:39] Znarl, I'm tucking in. [12:39] g/t [12:40] Night all. === TMM [n=hp@c51471f2c.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Aegir` [n=richard@d220-238-232-61.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === aigarius [n=aigarius@159.148.239.80] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:18] anyone know why aio_read is creating another thread instead of telling the kernel to do the IO asynchronously like it should? [01:22] how do you know that kernel thread isn't doing it? [01:22] because when I step over the aio_read call in gdb it says a thread was created [01:23] oh, you're not doing kdb stuff? [01:24] nope... I'm trying to patch dd to use aio to keep the pipeline full when doing copies with O_DIRECT === _jason [n=jason@dhcp0534.hrn.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:24] you might want to ask in #kernelnewbies on irc.oftc.net, then. [01:25] hrm.... that's a channel for newbie kernel hackers? [01:25] the channel is misleading. [01:25] channel _name_ [01:25] hrm.... thanks === _jason [n=jason@dhcp0534.hrn.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:42] hrm.. if I install the debug libc package... how can I direct a program under gdb to use it instead of the stripped one? === otavio is now known as otavio[off] [01:52] psusi: it should automatically be able to load the symbols. at least with my experience that's how it's worked. === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === floam [n=floam@sh.nu] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Ex-Chat"] === HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Blejdfizt [n=foobar@c-d74472d5.024-2014-67626714.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === _jason [n=jason@dhcp0534.hrn.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel === beezly [n=andy@nat-out-honley.beezly.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === koke [n=koke@adsl229-164.unizar.es] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:19] umm, i think i accidentally uploaded a package to upload.ubuntu.com earlier - that shouldn't upset anything/anyone should it? [02:19] no [02:20] it'll just be rejected silently unless your key is in the uploader keyring [02:20] excellent :) - although the world is going to miss out on my crappy remote apt util! (no great loss I assure you!) === seth_k|lappy [n=seth@d-ip-129-15-213-50.wireless.ou.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@tvwna-ip-a-1.princeton.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === schweeb [n=chris@68.77.111.53] has joined #ubuntu-devel === schweeb [n=chris@68.77.111.53] has joined #ubuntu-devel === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === otavio[off] [n=otavio@201.10.58.28] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:59] when I do a tags-search in emacs, it finds things with that text even in comments... is there a way to limit it to things names of functions? === mpt [n=mpt@tvwna-ip-a-1.princeton.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:17] how did the osnews thread on Flight 1 devolve to images of Trolltech shafting KDE? [04:18] every thread on osnews degenerates [04:18] sad, just sad [04:19] huhu [04:19] hahaha === robertj [n=robertj@66-188-77-153.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:20] ok this one cracks me up the most [04:20] http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=12721&comment_id=62436 [04:20] freedesktop.org is a giant Trolltech conspiracy. I knew it! [04:21] bahahah === psusi is pissed off at the continued lack of proper aio support in linux [04:41] man [04:41] i don't understand why people take screenshots of dapper [04:41] it's like "wow it looks exactly like the screenshots for breezy awesome!" === mpt_ [n=mpt@tvwna-ip-a-1.princeton.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:47] wonder if there is a way to make all toolbars use small icons [04:48] oops wrong window [04:57] woh [04:57] my ibook just woke up. [04:57] i let it fall asleep on accedent, and it just woke [04:57] it's never done that in linux before === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === Gerrath [i=Gerrath@unaffiliated/gerrath] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:05] why does everybody and their dog write a media player? Are there not enough in the world alrady? [05:06] So I was just thinking. Samba sucks. [05:06] I mean, by default. [05:07] WIsh: by default you should be able to install it and it should function just like a WIndows box. [05:07] Should auto hook into pam, auto generate smbpasswd, make sure it's in sync with /etc/passwd. [05:07] No shares enabled by default, of course, but the basic config should be in place. [05:08] then produce the patches to do that [05:08] Thinking about it. :0 [05:09] Burgundavia, there are no good ones, which motivates many people enough to write another one, but not enough to write a good one :-) [05:10] mpt, yes [05:10] the reality with media players is that no perfect one exists to satisfy all people [05:15] wasabi: The password synchronisation is a bitch. I don't think CIFS tosses passwords around in the same format shadow stores them in. === jdong [n=jdong@ubuntu/member/jdong] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [05:15] wasabi: The right solution is Keberos on every machine. =) [05:16] No, you're right, It doesn't. [05:16] It's not possible to fix perfectly. [05:17] But a default samba install should at least inform the user to change his Ubuntu password to activate his Windows access, and automatically set up PAM to do so. [05:17] Basically it should assure he doesn't have to maintain two passwords. [05:17] Synchronisation is teh suck. [05:18] No way around it, it doesn't use the same hash format. [05:18] and it's one way. [05:18] For an office, yeah, Kerberos should be used. [05:18] For a home? Probably not. [05:18] Right, thus my assertion that Kerberos by default everywhere. =) [05:18] You tell MS that. [05:19] AD uses Kerberos internally. [05:19] AD doesn't run on my mom's computer. [05:19] I don't know what MS does for single sign on in home networks, though. [05:19] They don't. [05:19] They just pass hashes. [05:19] And then prompt if it's wrong. [05:20] or they let you in without a password [05:20] Only on 9*. ;) [05:20] Or if you enable guest. [05:20] But we *could* do it on home Ubuntu networks. Opportunistically trust other machines on the local network when someone with root privs says "trust that machine" [05:20] And use that as an opporutnity to send principals back and forth. [05:20] But we "don't need to." [05:20] wasabi, you cannot disable guest on XP Home machiens [05:20] =) [05:21] http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/tips/goingsolo.mspx [05:21] wasabi: Sure we do. I find it annoying that I can't trivially just browse the files on the machines in my network without setting up an account, etc. [05:21] I agree. We can work on that. ;) [05:21] But for the purposes of getting my dad sharing files with Ubuntu in 2 months. [05:21] Hehe. [05:22] Dude, anything like you're thinking of is unlikely to be dapper material. [05:22] jbailey, is there a sane fix to the browse problem? [05:22] Having samba suddenly twiddle pam is a bit of an invasive change. [05:22] I agree. It would need to be thought out better than what I just blurted out on IRC. ;) [05:23] Maybe a samba-workgroup-config package or something. [05:23] Anyways, I want it to be easy for Mortals. [05:23] Burgundavia: I haven't though it through, but I'm imagining something like a directory. When you install the machine it could zeroconf or whatever and say "look, there's a network here. Trust it?" And then ask for a password to attach to the other machines or something like that. [05:23] Having some sort of better pluggable PAM infrastructure would be useful though. [05:24] I am so tired of hand editing these things. [05:24] Similar to registering a windows or netware machine into their respective security setups. [05:24] The ideal bit would be somehow making it version changes to the authentication database so you didn't need a single server. [05:24] jbailey: I like that idea... but it raises a lot of questions. ;) [05:24] Good. Any idea worth having should. =) [05:25] In a home I still see each computer of more of an untrusting island. [05:25] Where any trust between them is always initiated with sceptism, etc. [05:25] People bringing in comps for a lan party, peopel driving by, people with work PCs [05:26] Right. Have to assume this whole network has real ipv4 addresses and is sitting on the public 'net [05:26] Each system having it's own user base, and then, on first auth, attempting to "link" two accounts between systems. [05:26] First time you browse to a PC, it asks you for the user name on that PC, which you type in, and then it asks you if you want to "link" these names, or something. [05:27] Basically just shares some token. [05:27] Would let you bring in a work PC, link it to a home PCs local account, for the purposes of local PC access. [05:27] Obviously it would have no meaning on the work network. [05:27] But isn't this just like remembering passwords? :) [05:27] Right, but that machine should understand that there are multiple contexts. tie that in with network manager or something. [05:28] Or the entire idea could just be snipped in the butt, remember passwords, but offer to update changed passwords on other systems. [05:29] The problems I want to solve are: 1) If I have files on my wife's machines, I should be able to get them. 2) If my wife has a file on her machine that she wants me to have, I should be able to get it without emailing it through our mail server 6000 km away [05:29] Why can't you just create an account on your wifes PC? [05:29] And access that file through that account from yours? [05:29] I could, but then I have to remember the password for it. [05:29] That's basically all we're talking about. [05:29] And that I created it. [05:29] wasabi, too much overhead [05:29] No you don't. [05:29] You'd have to remember that password just as much as you'd have to remember some mythical token we just talked about. [05:30] For any system to function you have to a) create a security token on each system involved and store with it information that the other system knows. [05:30] It's almost like I want a zeroconf AFS. =) [05:30] Creating a user with a password fulfils that. [05:31] Perhaps it just needs a better interface. [05:31] Perhaps, for instance, the first time you try to access a machine with smb:// that doesn't have a remembered password, you are asked to a) auth or b) create a new remote account [05:32] but that means you need to root account on that box [05:32] Yup. [05:32] Obviouslyl. [05:32] because I sure has hell don't want somebody random creating accounts on my box [05:32] Exactly. [05:32] that is way too much overhead [05:32] You don't want that in any system. [05:32] What? [05:32] Who else do you propose a system to allow access? [05:32] AI? [05:32] At some point a human has to step in and say Bob is allowed to access these files. [05:34] how does OS X handle filesharing in a windows network? [05:35] By default, like we do. [05:35] Prompts for password. Password gets saved. [05:35] can you see shares by default [05:35] ? [05:35] To share, it uses samba, but preconfigures it to allow local users access. [05:35] And does track password changes. [05:35] Doesn't share any shares by default. [05:35] But once you turn it on, you can browse (nothing) === retrix [n=sam@ppp219-41.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:36] actually maybe Home is shared === rob1 [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@c-67-172-161-28.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@c-67-172-161-28.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:56] im just downloading the first dapper image [05:56] how can I get on the testing team? [06:01] mahangu, the laptop testing team? === minghu1 [n=minghua@ppp-70-247-52-142.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:08] minghu1, did you mean the laptop testing team? [06:09] jbailey: don't suppose you know much about kerberos eh? You talk about it a lot. ;) [06:09] I've got a horrid problem I'm trying to debug. [06:11] Burgundavia: You probably need to ask whoever you intended to ask again. Sorry for the nick collision :-) [06:12] minghu1, ah, ok [06:12] for some reason I read your two nicks as the same [06:12] the mind is funny sometimes === Kinnison finishes a blog posting about new aranha and heads to bed [06:15] night all === mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:19] hi, did anyone see what I wrote before? [06:20] (I don't wanna ask again, sorry got d/c) === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:41] mahangu, did you want to join the laptop testing team? === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:43] Burgundavia, yeah, i run ubuntu on a thinkpad t42 [06:43] mahangu, ok, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam should get you started [06:43] the key thing is that you test EVERY feature of the laptop and file bugs for everything that doesn't work [06:44] also install all Flight cds so feedback can come during the development cycle [06:44] there is also a laptop-testing list that you should probably subscribe to === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [06:53] Burgundavia, ill do that [06:53] :) [06:54] mahangu, thanks [07:03] Burgundavia, for running the devel images [07:03] i probably shouldn't use my primary work laptop, correct? [07:04] mahangu_, you can dual boot [07:08] Burgundavia, yeah that's true [07:08] it means ill have to resize the partition im currently running breezy on though [07:09] not hard, the installer can do it === Amaranth [i=Amaranth@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:14] Burgundavia, really? without messing my data? [07:14] i was told to boot xp and use partition magic [07:14] yes [07:15] no to the second part === ajmitch will have to try & rejoin the laptop testing team soon ;) [07:15] ajmitch, you getting another one from canonical [07:16] not that I've heard [07:16] ok [07:16] I'd be quite surprised if I did [07:17] I've been checking out what to replace it with [07:17] ajmitch, you borked your lappy? [07:17] no, it was stolen [07:17] whoa [07:17] :S [07:18] from where? [07:18] from UBZ, at the hotel [07:18] UBZ> [07:18] ? [07:18] UbuntuBelowZero, the developer summit we just had [07:19] ah === spektr [i=aleph0@M980P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:56] hi all! :D [07:56] just to make sure, but is build-depending on libgamin-dev preferable to build-depending on libfam-dev? === OculusAquilae [n=bastian@p548D39A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=zak@ubuntu/member/zakame] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === trappist [i=trappist@linuxkungfu.org] has joined #ubuntu-devel === neuralis [n=ike@83-131-10-122.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:00] bon soir, neuralis [10:01] Burgundavia, g'day, sir [10:02] have you started in on the server testing framework yet? [10:02] Burgundavia, nope, the specs are in mdz's queue [10:02] ah [10:03] Burgundavia, i want to make sure he's happy with them, after which i'll also mail laptop-list re: using the backend for laptops [10:03] excellent [10:03] Burgundavia, and i've mailed malc re: laptop certification, without response so far [10:03] have you spoken with mjg59 regarding what specifically he needs from the reports? [10:04] and if you have, is that recorded somewhere? [10:05] no -- i want to address any concerns mdz has *first*, and then fan out and talk to the rest of the people [10:05] ok [10:06] no worries, it's on my list, it'll get done === mojo85 [n=mojo@60-240-159-37.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:22] I suggest the 'Add Application' app and 'Sumit Hardware' app should use icons of the new naming scheme (Tango project) === lfittl [n=lfittl@83-65-243-186.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zakame [n=Josh@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pef [n=loic@ubuntu/member/pef] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:37] hello === OculusAquilae [n=oculus@p548D39A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === JaneW [n=JaneW@wbs-146-182-174.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === MagnusR [n=magru@85.194.14.142] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:47] mag runes [10:47] foobar [10:47] Wrong window, sorry! [10:48] JaneW, we need to make ubuntu plushies. cute, stuffed animals that i can give to people. anything in the works? :) === herzi [n=herzi@d014080.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === moyogo [n=moyogo@117pc104.ucu-vb.uu.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wjb [n=warren@c220-237-178-175.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:56] neuralis: we could have little plush dragons ;) === Lathiat hides from the raging mob [10:58] Lathiat, +1. but i'd settle for a duck, if it were dapper enough. === Lathiat grins === hunger [n=hunger@p54A60E9B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lbm [n=lbm@130.225.243.71] has joined #ubuntu-devel === trs81 [n=trs80@203-166-239-167.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === grover [n=grover@216-99-218-29.dsl.aracnet.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ozamosi [n=ozamosi@h105n3c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu__ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === HiddenWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.135.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dr88dr88 [n=gerrit@f145072.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsz [n=diego@59.Red-80-36-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spektr_ [i=aleph0@M1091P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ompaul [n=ompaul@213-202-144-104.bas502.dsl.esat.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === spektr_ is now known as spektr === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:20] <\sh> infinity / lamont-away: could one of you two check where the last upload of armagetron is hiding? latest uploaded version is 0.2.7.0-1.1ubuntu1 and it didn't appear in the buildlogs === ptlo [n=senko@83-131-84-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hirion [n=Hirion@p5487EE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:46] <\sh> elmo: please sync dnprogs from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:48] wasabi: I've done two smallish kerberos deployments (about a dozen servers in each one. One with about a hundred users, one with three users and a whole bunch of service principals) [01:48] wasabi: I have to Oreilly Kerberos book here if you have specific questions. === mahangu__ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=hunger@p54A6096C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LeeJunFan [n=junfan@adsl-69-210-207-5.dsl.klmzmi.ameritech.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === moyogo [n=moyogo@117pc104.ucu-vb.uu.nl] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dunerecords [n=johannes@p54990CE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === loo [n=loo@u-124-094.adsl.univie.ac.at] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === tvo [n=tobi@5354EA9B.cable.casema.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mjg59 [n=mjg59@cavan.codon.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === neuralis_ [n=ike@83-131-17-70.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:11] neuralis_ hi :) [03:12] ptlo, hey === neuralis_ is now known as neuralis === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-77-39-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marcin [n=user@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jane_ [n=JaneW@wbs-146-182-174.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zyga [n=zyga@2-mi2-1.acn.waw.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:50] BenC: the ppc kernel build failure didn't disappear with the new binutils :( [03:51] slomo_: assuming I can keep kernel-package updated to the latest ppc/powerpc changes, it will build in -4.4 [03:51] I disabled HMT and NUMA for ppc64 to get that building [03:51] BenC: ok, thanks... when can we expect -4.4? [03:52] tomorrow [03:52] -rc2 was tagged today, so seems like a good time (ppc64->powerpc merge is done now too, so it helps a lot) [03:53] hehe, maybe i can finally try the newest bcm43xx driver then ;) seems like they made great progress in the last days === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:58] BenC, anything cool in -4.4? [03:59] hiddenwolf: devmem patch from fedora, enabled ACPI_BLACKLIST=2000, should build on sparc and ia64 now [03:59] lots of little changes aswell [04:00] BenC, sparc and ia64 are on the road to being officially supported? === _jason [n=jason@dhcp0534.hrn.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:01] no idea, but I know that fabbione is pushing to get sparc to be a first class citizen [04:01] HiddenWolf: not yet no [04:01] I'm amazed that interest for IA64 is so consistent. [04:01] there is nobody other than lamont giving love to ia64 [04:03] HiddenWolf: who is asking for it? [04:04] fabbione, ah, no. not specifically. === BenC would like his i2k to be useful, but that's not asking much [04:04] BenC: i am getting an ia64 soon [04:04] fabbione, but afaik IA64 isn't called itanic for no reason. :) [04:04] HiddenWolf: you mean Titanic? [04:04] ;) [04:04] with all the support behind x86-64, I don't think ia64 is viable anymore [04:06] BenC, anandtech had an article on why IA64 was the most promising architecture, beating Sparc and PPC and X86. [04:06] BenC, that was on technical merit tho, not viability. [04:06] hidden: it's a marketing failure though [04:06] BenC, Both a marketing and a sales failure, really. === sajd [n=sajd@c80-217-193-226.cm-upc.chello.se] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:07] HiddenWolf: well.. sparc is still used a lot more compared to ia64 [04:08] sparc64 would be a lot better if 64-bit code actually ran decent compared to 32-bit code [04:08] as it is, 64-bit is reserved for when you have to have that much addressing [04:08] otherwise it's a performance hit [04:10] fabbione, anand's point was more: It'll scale better to future performance. [04:12] HiddenWolf: sounds like they did send a lot of ia64 to these people writing the review [04:12] fabbione: uploading new kernel-package now [04:13] BenC: cool [04:13] BenC: is it going to build on sparc? [04:13] ah meh [04:13] never mind [04:13] nice, dapper_probs lists the whole archive as uninstallable [04:13] doko, why?! [04:13] BenC: i read "new kernel source" [04:14] HiddenWolf: ia64 is taking over archive.ubuntu.com! [04:14] fabbione, cool. :P [04:14] impressive [04:14] out of 6 arches [04:14] HiddenWolf: tell me [04:14] sparc is the one that can still install more than all the others :D [04:15] fabbione: have you tried compiling -4 on sparc yet? [04:15] BenC: no [04:15] I should hook up my e3k in here just temporarily tonight [04:15] i did let the buildd catch up [04:16] doko, have you upped OOo2 final to Dapper yet? [04:17] HiddenWolf: go for it if you want ;-P [04:18] doko, ehm... === bmonty_laptop [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:25] doko: uninstallables> please rebuild python against openssl 0.9.8 [04:25] python2.4 that is [04:25] ahh, ok ... [04:25] we need to get openssl097 into the archive though, so that this isn't so destructive [04:26] elmo: should openssl097 still be listed as broken? [04:27] elmo: I think probably not - if you could remove it from josie's broken list and do an auto-sync, the uninstallables list would appreciate it :-) === mahangu__ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:35] elmo: in fact it probably won't autosync because it's modified - I'll merge === blueyed [n=daniel@pdpc/supporter/active/blueyed] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:43] doko: ok, I've uploaded a merged openssl097; the world should look somewhat better once that makes it into the archive [04:43] we should still get rid of libssl0.9.7 linkage where possible === rtcm [n=jman@213.146.193.80] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:48] it's bad when you have to get a dolly to move a computer from one side of the room to the other === zeedo [n=zeedo@80.68.92.188] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:49] BenC, eh? [04:50] BenC, thats not bad ... bad is if you have to get a team *and* a dolly to move it [04:51] if I have a development idea (which i have half implemented), who can I talk to? [04:51] worst ever for me was that the dolly wasn't strong enough to hold the computer [04:51] took six people, and the computer was never actually lift off the ground, we had to lean it into a trailer to transport it [04:52] mahangu, just talk here. :) [04:52] ok [04:52] well, i haven't written a primer or anything [04:52] but im working on this live support system for distros [04:52] basically, i noticed that many new users dont know how to get on IRC [04:52] mahangu: you must pass the six tests of Ubuntu, and climb to the highest peak in Africa :) [04:52] so I figured, why not write a nice front end for it? [04:53] im new to perl and linux, but i did a hack job, and got a working prototype [04:53] Kamion: uploaded python2.4 as well to link against 0.9.8 [04:53] it's basically a bot that interfaces between a thin GTK client and a support channel [04:54] mahangu: the biggest problem with that sort of thing is generally setting up an appropriate support channel; #ubuntu is too busy and basically inappropriate for that sort of thing [04:54] GTK client connects to IRC network --> spews data in channel (this is basically username, contact email and help request) [04:54] Kamion, I'm aware of that :) just getting there [04:54] doko: thanks [04:54] so basically, there will have to be a seperate channel for it [04:54] like #distroname-support [04:54] so far, the folks at Taprobane (www.taprobane.org) , a local GNU / Linux distro seem to like the idea [04:54] and im working on it [04:55] i havent implemented a client yet [04:55] but the bot so far [04:55] 1) scans the support channel for activity [04:55] if there is activity, channels request there [04:55] 2) if no activity sends to support-mailing-list [04:55] any thoughts? [04:56] i was just thinking while handing out Ubuntu CDs the other day that none of the people I was giving them to would even know what IRC was [04:56] I'm wondering if it's complementary to https://launchpad.net/support, or if the two fill basically the same use case [04:56] so their support was minimal [04:57] well, let's say https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+tickets, better URL [04:57] Kamion, yeah, id say it'l work really well with that [04:57] again, i have some pretty sparse code on the Taprobane CVS [04:57] anyone think it's worth a shot? === ivoks [n=ivoks@ubuntu/member/ivoks] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:58] im not really an experienced coder, and have never been to CS school === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-77-39-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [04:58] but im quick to learn and am willing to dedicate a big portion of my time to see this through [04:58] my main concern is that IRC is actually kind of a poor medium for real customer support [04:59] are you sure you want to use it as the backend? [04:59] Kamion, isn't it a stable means of communication? rather than doing all that handshaking on our own? [04:59] it's very vulnerable to noise, inappropriate comments, etc. [04:59] Kamion, yes [04:59] i have a solution (I think) [04:59] and you have to sit online for ever to get a response, which is pretty awkward if you have a pay-for line [05:00] Kamion, yeah that's why it sends unanswered requests to the mailing list [05:00] the client will tell the user [05:00] it's better if responses can come back to you asynchronously and you can log in to find if somebody's answered [05:00] "Sorry looks like no one is aorund, I've sent your request to the mailing lit" [05:00] Kamion, hmm, that would be neat [05:00] why not just do everything through a mailing list then? it's confusing to have two means of communication [05:01] Kamion, oh right [05:01] so a mailing list front end [05:01] that's a lot of text manip though [05:01] or, as I say, the Launchpad support tracker - you have the asynchronous communication there [05:01] stripping mail signatures etc? [05:01] Kamion, that is web based, right? [05:01] and if you talked to the folks on #launchpad they might be able to expose an XML-RPC interface for you [05:01] right [05:02] i was thinking of a GTK application [05:02] of course [05:02] yes, i understand what you are saying === mahangu ponders [05:02] what is the (average) turn around time for a launchpad reply? [05:02] I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue an IRC-backed option, just suggesting that you might not want to get too hung up on IRC for this, that's all :) [05:02] no idea - it's never actually been advertised anywhere so the people using it are the people who happen to have come across it [05:02] (so far) [05:02] yeah I understand [05:03] Kamion, where can I find one or more devs with a little free time who might like to run through some ideas with me? [05:03] Kamion, http://cvs.taprobane.org/viewcvs.py/taprobane/hermes/hermes.pl?rev=1.7&view=log [05:03] for launchpad, or in general? [05:03] Kamion, well in general [05:05] hmm, I guess here's as good as any for IRC, or try the ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com mailing list; it's always better to find somewhere specific if possible though [05:06] Kamion, thanks, ill try [05:06] (I'm mostly doing other things at the moment though, I'm afraid) [05:07] np === tuhl [n=tuhl@p5498C646.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === desrt head-scratches === tuhl [n=tuhl@p5498C646.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === jk [n=jochem@jkossen.nl] has joined #Ubuntu-devel [05:31] back === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:35] <\sh> elmo: please sync grip from unstable, ubuntu changes can be dropped thx === hunger [n=hunger@p54A64310.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mahangu_ [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mae [n=mae@dpc674653178.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mjcc [i=pat@14.Red-213-97-177.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === trulux [n=lorenzo@unaffiliated/trulux] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dand [n=dand@86.105.65.80] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hirion [n=Hirion@p5487EE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hirion [n=Hirion@p5487EE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Kaloz [i=kaloz@arrakis.dune.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === greenpenguin11 [n=joseph@user-4451.l5.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel === greenpenguin11 [n=joseph@user-4451.l5.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === cassidy [n=cassidy@f1-pc174.ulb.ac.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel === vuntz [n=vuntz@fennas.vuntz.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carstenh [n=carstenh@mkfw.fh-trier.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marcin [n=user@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsz [n=diego@59.Red-80-36-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === greenpenguin13 [n=joseph@user-4451.l5.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === HWolf [n=HiddenWo@136.135.dynamic.phpg.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === greenpenguin13 [n=joseph@user-4451.l5.c2.dsl.pol.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [07:47] so what's the story on 2.6.15? [07:48] Once upon a time, a long time ago, there was a kernel. [07:49] <\sh> elmo: please sync k3b-i18n from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes ok [07:57] no. seriously [07:57] there are a few bugs that i'm waiting to see if the new kernel will fry [07:58] desrt, it's in, but unstable. [07:58] so why doesn't it show up on apt-get dist-upgrade? [08:00] <\sh> elmo: please sync kdirstat from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes ok [08:01] desrt: because PPC is still FTBFS on the buildd [08:01] desrt: it should be fixed with tomorrow [08:01] 's upload [08:01] ah. excellent [08:01] can you do me a favour, fabio? [08:01] possibly [08:01] view this document :) [08:01] http://desrt.mcmaster.ca/random/new-key.asc [08:01] also: explain why there are 2 'b's in your name :) === Danten [n=danten@h28n15c1o1049.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #Ubuntu-devel [08:02] the second B stands for Big [08:03] like Big Fabio -> fabbione in italian [08:03] ah. i see. [08:03] desrt: he has a tshirt that says Ride The Italian Stalion [08:03] no [08:03] there is no modesty to be had here [08:03] it says: "Italian Stallion" with Ferrari's font [08:03] i should count my blessings that i didn't see it :) [08:03] haha [08:03] fabbione: So what should elmo's shirt say? [08:04] What's the elmo doll called in Italy? =) [08:04]