[04:10] <Alinux> hello, someone who speaks italian?
[04:10] <Alinux> or can help me :)
[04:22] <jamesh> I don't speak italian, but may be able to help you
[04:23] <Alinux> ;)
[04:24] <jamesh> what is the problem?
[04:24] <Alinux> jamesh, I'm georgian translation team administrator... but I can't understan why I can't validate a translation... from rose ---> to green color
[04:24] <jamesh> Alinux: that's one area I'm not so familiar with :(
[04:25] <Alinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/ka
[04:25] <jamesh> Alinux: if you wait a while, carlos and jordi should come online
[04:25] <jamesh> alternatively you could ask on the rosetta mailing list
[04:25] <Alinux> and some breezy applications, are not checkable in dapper translation list...
[04:26] <jamesh> Alinux: iirc, the green colour is stuff that gets imported from the packages
[04:26] <Alinux> jamesh, do you know what's initial ubuntu installer package name?
[04:26] <jamesh> Alinux: the colour should change automatically once the translations get rolled out in language packs
[04:26] <jamesh> debian-installer, maybe?
[04:26] <Alinux> mmm
[04:27] <Alinux> I don't know from where I can import this application.
[04:27] <Alinux> launchpad is quite confused for me :)
[04:28] <Alinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+source/nautilus/+pots/nautilus/ --- here for example....all translations are green...and georgian is not included...
[04:28] <Alinux> I can't understand the reason.
[04:44] <jamesh> Alinux: do you have georgian selected as one of your preferred languages?
[04:45] <Alinux> yes of course
[04:45] <jamesh> https://launchpad.net/rosetta/prefs <- if you have it selected here, Georgian will always be displayed in the list of translations, even if there are zero translations
[04:47] <jamesh> e.g. on the URL you listed, "English (Australian)" is listed for me, even though there are no translations
[04:47] <Alinux> I know this I have 3 prefered languages...
[04:48] <Alinux> I'm talking about general translations... I can't see general resultats... almost 98% of translations are colored green.
[04:48] <Alinux> but georgian is not. :(
[04:49] <Alinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+translations here for example
[04:56] <Alinux> http://l10n-status.gnome.org/gnome-2.14/ and what's about this? should I translate here too?
[05:06] <Alinux> jamesh, by the way tnak you for replying :)
[05:20] <stub> spiv: You back on board or still sick?
[05:21] <spiv> stub: I'm back.  Hmm, I guess I should've mailed about that.
[05:22] <spiv> I see you've got more LibrarianGarbageCollection code, and a librarian bug/feature for me :)
[05:22] <spiv> (updating last accessed)
[05:25] <stub> Yup ;)
[05:29] <jamesh> spiv: if you have some time, could you look at my ValidatingSignOnlyGpgKeys branch?
[05:30] <jamesh> spiv: the large line count on the pending-reviews/ page is due to deleting unneeded copies of some PGP keys
[05:30] <spiv> jamesh: Ah :)
[05:31] <spiv> jamesh: Is there any particular reason your bugzilla-import branch is unreviewed, btw?
[05:31] <jamesh> spiv: no.
[05:31] <jamesh> no one has reviewed it
[05:32] <jamesh> spiv: I added diffstat output to the tops of the diffs too, btw
[05:32] <spiv> Oh, nice.
[05:33] <spiv> That was a good idea!
[05:33] <jamesh> I'll add the "diff -p" output once https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/4047 gets fixed
[05:33] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4047: bzrlib.diff.show_diff() can't send output to a file when using external diff Fix req. for: bzr (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4047
[07:40] <zerokarmaleft> hello
[07:45] <jamesh> spiv: thanks for the review
[07:45] <jamesh> hi zerokarmaleft 
[08:05] <zerokarmaleft> wow, rosetta looks like an awesome for translations
[09:13] <jordi> meh
[09:13] <jordi> missed the georgian guy.
[10:04] <lifeless> SteveA: meeting time ?
[10:04] <SteveA> lifeless: not sure... my appointment .txt file is on my laptop, which i'm currently having some problems with
[10:04] <lifeless> ah
[10:04] <lifeless> 1000 UTC I thought
[10:05] <SteveA> for... ?
[10:05] <lifeless> you me and ddaa
[10:05] <lifeless> re bzr pipeline
[10:05] <SteveA> ah, yeah
[10:05] <SteveA> i'll check my email
[10:06] <lifeless> what happens on your laptop ?
[10:06] <ddaa> Thought it was in 1h as well.
[10:06] <SteveA> i wake it up from sleeping.  i've changed physical location, so i reconfigure the wireless: iwconfig eth1 essid any
[10:06] <SteveA> then i say dhclient eth1
[10:06] <SteveA> then it suspends
[10:07] <lifeless> rotfl
[10:07] <SteveA> it was doing it at UBZ too
[10:07] <lifeless> dmesg have anything interesting ?
[10:07] <SteveA> it happens only sometimes, so i'm trying to keep it in that state until someone turns up who can help debug it
[10:07] <lifeless> (and why do you not use ifup/ifdown ?
[10:07] <SteveA> no, nothing interesting in dmesg
[10:07] <lifeless> what about daemon.log ?
[10:07] <SteveA> haven't checked daemon.log
[10:08] <ddaa> "User try to use me. Oh No! Going back to sleep."
[10:09] <lifeless> SteveA: have a look now ?
[10:09] <SteveA> ifup / ifdown means i'd need to edit /etc/network/interfaces
[10:09] <ddaa> "to disable this feature, run 'echo 0 > /proc/sys/acpi/lazy_lemming'"
[10:09] <SteveA> yeah, if i can get it to remain awake long enough :-)
[10:09] <lifeless> SteveA: no it does not
[10:10] <lifeless> for example, this is my config from interfaces for TELUS:
[10:10] <lifeless> -----
[10:10] <SteveA> in any case, i'm pretty sure that ifup / ifdown has the same effect
[10:10] <lifeless> iface telus inet dhcp
[10:10] <lifeless>         wireless-mode managed
[10:10] <lifeless>         wireless-essid TELUS
[10:10] <lifeless> -----
[10:10] <lifeless> then after sleep when we were there I did:
[10:10] <SteveA> how does it know that's eth1?
[10:10] <lifeless> 'sudo ifdown eth1 && sudo ifup eth1=telus'
[10:11] <SteveA> aha
[10:11] <lifeless> so, anything interesting in daemon.log ?
[10:11] <SteveA> i need to be in a meeting now...
[10:11] <SteveA> so, i'll look a little later
[10:11] <lifeless> yes, with me - is it not 1010UTC ?
[10:12] <lifeless> oh
[10:12] <lifeless> right, 50 minutes
[10:12] <ddaa> I think it's 0910UTC
[10:12] <lifeless> see you both then :0
[10:22] <carlos> morning
[11:01] <SteveA_> lifeless, ddaa: i'll be with you in 5 mins, just concluding this meeting
[11:03] <lifeless> k
[11:06] <SteveA_> ddaa, lifeless: i'm ready
[11:07] <ddaa> here or #canonical-meeting?
[11:07] <lifeless> the latter I think
[11:07] <SteveA_> think marius may have worked what's up with the laptop, at least vaguely
[11:07] <ddaa> join #canonical-meeting
[11:07] <ddaa> gr
[11:07] <SteveA_> i still had pitti's 0telus connection script in the if-up scripts
[11:08] <lifeless> heh
[11:08] <SteveA_> it is possible that was running synchronously with acpi stuff
[11:08] <SteveA_> and acpi scripts got confused about it timing out etc.
[11:29] <zkl|laptop> what's the distinction b/w "used elsewhere" and "suggested elsewhere" on rosetta?
[11:51] <carlos> zkl|laptop, used meand that the string is being used already as a valid translation
[11:51] <carlos> zkl|laptop, suggested is that someone added it as a suggestion but that someone should review it before it's used
[11:52] <SteveA_> to the FAQ with that!
[11:52] <carlos> so the 'used' one would be better
[11:52] <carlos> I think we have it already...
[11:52] <SteveA_> even better ;-)
[11:52] <jordi> hmm
[11:52] <jordi> we don't
[11:52] <jordi> ?
[11:52] <jordi> I will DO IT
[11:53] <carlos> no, it's not
[11:53] <carlos> jordi, cool ;-)
[11:53] <carlos> jordi, are you already back at home?
[11:53] <jordi> yes
[11:53] <jordi> SteveA_: where are logs of lp meetings?
[11:53] <zkl|laptop> thanks carlos 
[11:53] <jordi> carlos: even better
[11:53] <jordi> I actually have ADSL at home
[11:54] <jordi> dude, I can do work at home.
[11:54] <SteveA_> jordi: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/launchpad-current.html
[11:54] <jordi> I feel useful at nights again
[11:54] <SteveA_> are launchpad logs in general
[11:54] <SteveA_> i mailed a summary of the last launchpad meeting out to the launchpad list last week
[11:54] <carlos> jordi, ;-)
[11:54] <SteveA_> and i'll take corrections, and post it on the wiki later today
[11:55] <WaterSevenUb> hey
[11:55] <WaterSevenUb> is it possible to get a list of all the teams in one page? with summary info of pages like https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-pt/
[11:55] <WaterSevenUb> ?
[11:56] <zkl|laptop> carlos, if used elsewhere translations are valid, then why aren't they showing up as messages that have already been translated on launchpad?
[11:57] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, https://launchpad.net/rosetta/groups/ubuntu-translators
[11:57] <carlos> zkl|laptop, because are valid in another package, that does not means that will be always valid for other packages
[11:57] <WaterSevenUb> thanks
[11:57] <jordi> SteveA_: oh, I see the summary now
[11:58] <matsubara> good morning!
[11:59] <jordi> After the meeting, Steve and Carlos talked through the issue in detail, and
[11:59] <jordi> came up with an explanatory diagram and a policy explained from the point of
[11:59] <jordi> view of each of the main actors: translators, upstream maintainers, package
[11:59] <jordi> maintainers.
[12:00] <jordi> I need this diagram to write the wiki page
[12:00] <zkl|laptop> carlos, ok i see, these xchat2 translations i'm looking at are also used in xchat-gnome
[12:01] <carlos> jordi, didn't I send you it??
[12:01] <carlos> hmmm
[12:01] <carlos> sorry, I thought I did
[12:01] <zkl|laptop> and all i have to do is verify that the translation is still valid
[12:01] <carlos> jordi, people.ubuntu.com/~stevea/rosetta-flow.png
[12:02] <carlos> jordi, in the same directory you have also the oo.org2 document that SteveA did to generate that image
[12:03] <jordi> hmm
[12:03] <jordi> I think this deosn't help me establish a policy regarding non-ubuntu translations
[12:03] <jordi> I'll draft and ping you two so you have a look
[12:05] <lifeless> jamesh: ping
[12:05] <jamesh> lifeless: pong
[12:05] <lifeless> calendar foo
[12:05] <lifeless> did the urls move ?
[12:05] <jamesh> no
[12:06] <lifeless> also, why does it ask me if I want to subscribe to my own calendar ?
[12:06] <carlos> jordi, ok
[12:06] <jamesh> that's a bug I need to fix
[12:06] <lifeless> jamesh: is there a bug # or should I file one ?
[12:07] <SteveA_> jordi: there was the diagram, which helped me understand the whole system.  but then, there was some policy that carlos and i discussed.
[12:07] <jamesh> lifeless: there is a bug #, but I don't have it handy
[12:07] <lifeless> jamesh: webcal://launchpad.net/people/lifeless/+calendar/+icalendar <- is that right ?
[12:07] <jamesh> that should work
[12:08] <SteveA_> jordi: the policy is quite conservative.  what we should do is to take that policy, and then work out how we can improve it in order to get more upstream stuff imported without annoying translators or upstreams.
[12:08] <SteveA_> carlos / jordi: do you have a copy of what carlos and i discussed last week?
[12:09] <carlos> SteveA, I do
[12:10] <SteveA_> has jordi seen it?
[12:11] <carlos> not yet, I'm preparing it to send it, I thought I did it already....
[12:12] <lifeless> night all
[12:14] <jamesh> /me wonders where his pqm success/failure message is
[12:14] <carlos> jordi, sent
[12:18] <lifeless> jamesh: its still running
[12:19] <jamesh> lifeless: ah.  I saw it had disappeared from http://pqm.ubuntu.com/
[12:19] <lifeless> it'll be mirroring I think
[12:20] <lifeless> mmm. dapper has ssh NICE - the auto controlmaster stuff
[12:21] <lifeless> ok, really gone. Night
[12:34] <SteveA_> hi niemeyer 
[12:40] <niemeyer> Morning!
[12:41] <SteveA_> lifeless, ddaa and i had a chat this morning about the bzr / imports related stuff
[12:41] <SteveA_> i want to go for lunch shortly.  can you, ddaa and i meet up later, in a few hours, to talk about the same stuff?
[12:41] <niemeyer> Of course
[12:41] <niemeyer> Would be very nice
[12:41] <SteveA_> that's great
[12:41] <niemeyer> What time?
[12:44] <SteveA_> it is 1144 UTC now
[12:44] <SteveA_> ddaa is off getting a train ticket or something
[12:45] <SteveA_> i think he'll be back soon.  so, shall we say 1400 UTC?
[12:45] <SteveA_> 2h15 from now
[12:45] <niemeyer> That's 12h here..
[12:45] <niemeyer> Ok, deal. :)
[12:45] <SteveA_> ok, great
[01:06] <jordi> carlos, SteveA_: got it
[01:15] <cprov> jordi: hi, have you looked at CodeOfConductTranslation ? are you happy with that ?
[01:15] <jordi> cprov: haven't had time yet. Let me have a look
[01:15] <cprov> jordi: right
[01:19] <jordi> cprov: for the outstanding bits, I meant if signing the Brazilian version has the same value as signing the original, English version
[01:19] <jordi> jdub said it should, IIRC.
[01:21] <cprov> jordi: yes, so do I, apart of the technical issues, do you think that organizing CoC by version and available/official translation would be fine ?
[01:22] <jordi> yes
[01:22] <jordi> I'm wondering if it should be extended for other possible docs though
[01:22] <sivang> jordi: I have a translated version of the CoC to hebrew, let me know when and where to put it
[01:23] <jordi> imagine we end up with a document like the CoC, but launchpad oriented, not ubuntu oriented.
[01:23] <jordi> sivang: ok
[01:23] <jordi> sivang: so it looks like the labour party could even win the elections
[01:23] <jordi> that would rock a lot
[01:23] <sivang> jordi: in here? :)
[01:23] <jordi> sivang: in .il, yes
[01:24] <cprov> jordi: uhm, I don't know, personally I think it will be scary to convince the spec approver 
[01:24] <sivang> jordi: unimanginably nice, Prim Minister is leaving his original party to join the labour :)
[01:24] <jordi> cprov: my second concern in the spec comes from translation teams consisting of 1 or2 persons
[01:24] <jordi> which might produce a really bad translation
[01:24] <jordi> cprov: so maybe, you should have a revision for translations
[01:24] <jordi> ie, CoC 1.0
[01:25] <jordi> and Coc-ES 1.0-1
[01:25] <jordi> sivang: Sharon? No, he's creating his own party
[01:25] <jordi> I hope he's not joining the labour party at least :)
[01:25] <siretart> is gina the girl who is importing bugzilla bugs to malone or katie sourcepackages to soyuz?
[01:26] <cprov> jordi: could be, both produce the same practical result, isn't it ?
[01:26] <jordi> siretart: gina is katie's young sister.
[01:26] <siretart> jordi: oh. who is she doing? ;)
[01:26] <jordi> siretart: katie was doing archive work
[01:26] <sivang> jordi: he's going to have his own party, but probably would "join" or go together with the labour, or for sure with same goals. He already has many followers and surprised his original party with steps he tooks towards stablilization
[01:26] <jordi> now it's going to be gina. :)
[01:27] <siretart> jordi: I had a look at the source of dak ;)
[01:27] <jordi> cprov: if revision 1 of CoC-ES has a horrid mistake nobody noticed, you can do 1.0-2 without bumping the real version number
[01:27] <jordi> so the version number stays in sync with the English CoC
[01:28] <cprov> jordi: siretart: gina is a simple dak -> launchpad  model importer
[01:28] <jordi> siretart: oh. good.
[01:28] <jordi> You found elmo's harem
[01:28] <sivang> jordi: He gets less and less accepted in the right wings due to what he did, but the amount of resistance seems to be dropping which is nice :-) he belives he has enough supporters to go alone
[01:28] <jordi> cprov: I thought it was like a rewrite of dak/katie
[01:28] <jordi> nod
[01:29] <cprov> jordi: the 'official' field (workflow) should avoid horrid mistakes like that, but your idea might be worth, let me think 
[01:29] <jamesh> siretart: bugzilla-import.py is the one that will be importing bugzilla bugs ;)
[01:30] <sivang> cprov: from what I understood from kiko, it's a mere source tar.gz's imported that just arranges it nicely for launchpad to consume ? 
[01:31] <jordi> cprov: in some cases, only one person or two will do the translation and correct it, if it's a samll team. If a few months later someone a lot more clued finds there's a horrid translation and it's set on stone, it'd be quite bad not to be able to change it.
[01:31] <cprov> jordi: not really, it's more like part of LP model is a rewrite of dak (they are not the same, it's not official, it's an analogy) and gina handle the differences  
[01:33] <cprov> jordi: right, I will think about this use-case, you're right we should be able to handle later fix in the workflow 
[01:33] <jordi> cprov: ok
[01:34] <cprov> sivang: true, you have a simpler and nicer understanding
[01:36] <sivang> cprov:  If I didn't have the power of reduction at my disposal, I would have been so lost .... and launchpad is a big thing :)
[01:37] <cprov> sivang: gina allows LP data model to offer similar functionality we have in dak
[01:37] <cprov> sivang: indeed 
[01:38] <sivang> cprov: are source pkgs stored as blobs in the db?
[01:38] <cprov> sivang: no, we have Librarian for that 
[01:40] <cprov> sivang: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/Librarian
[01:48] <sivang> cprov: server.tac is the Librarian code right?
[01:49] <cprov> sivang: Librarian Server code, pretty much 'yes'
[01:50] <cprov> sivang: twisted based web server associated with a customized uploader server (RD/WR solution)
[01:51] <sivang> cprov: RD/WR?
[01:51] <Kinnison> read/write
[01:51] <cprov> sivang: sorry, no abreviations, I suck ... read/write
[01:52] <sivang> cprov: oh, you could then use R/W
[01:55] <cprov> cprov: yes, old electronic world vicious, hope it's clarified    
[02:09] <sivang> cprov: lol -> http://librarian.launchpad.net/
[02:09] <sivang> cprov: droids?
[02:10] <Kinnison> sivang: it's a star-wars quote
[02:10] <sivang> Kinnison: ah, suck to be on the douglas adam's camp on not on Lucas's :)
[02:10] <sivang> the latter seems to gain so much popularity lately
[02:11] <sivang> Kinnison: how are you?
[02:11] <Kinnison> tired but not so ill :-)
[02:14] <Keybuk> sivang: ?!  what's dna got to do with anything?
[02:14] <Kinnison> Keybuk: if all your cultural references are dna based, then you won't recognise lucas quotes
[02:15] <Keybuk> such a person would be very worrying indeed
[02:15] <sivang> Keybuk: I think it would be nice if that page would say "I can tell you the answer, but you're not going to like it" :)
[02:16] <cprov> sivang: aha, the depressed robot 
[02:16] <sivang> and besides, dna was british, doesn't that give him any favor over Lucas ? ;=)
[02:16] <Kinnison> Nope, because the librarian was written by australians :-)
[02:17] <Keybuk> the Star Wars movies were filmed in Britain too
[02:17] <sivang> cprov: deep thoughts as well :)
[02:18] <jordi> Keybuk: if I have bind removed, conffiles remain, and bind9 installed, I assume purging bind will leave my precious conffiles alone, even if they are shared, right? :)
[02:18] <cprov> sivang: yes, yes ;)
[02:19] <Keybuk> jordi: those conffiles that are owned by bind9 will be purged
[02:19] <Keybuk> there's no such thing as "shared" conffiles
[02:20] <jordi> Keybuk: how do I purge bind without losing my bind9 files then?
[02:20] <Keybuk> "don't"
[02:20] <sivang> hehe
[02:20] <jordi> sucks
[02:20] <Nafallo> purge != remove :-)
[02:20] <Keybuk> purge = remove conffiles
[02:20] <Keybuk> if you want to remove bind9 without removing conffiles, use "remove"
[02:20] <jordi> Keybuk: but there's another package installed which also has those same conffiles registered
[02:20] <Keybuk> no there isn't
[02:20] <jordi> Keybuk: I want to remove bind
[02:20] <jordi> not bind9
[02:20] <jordi> bind is removed, bind9 is installed
[02:20] <Keybuk> ah, ok
[02:20] <Keybuk> sorry, misread that
[02:21] <Keybuk> bind9 should own its conffiles
[02:21] <Keybuk> so purging bind should work fine
[02:21] <jordi> ok
[02:21] <jordi> that was scary
[02:21] <Keybuk> there used to be a bug eons ago where bind9 wouldn't own most of them
[02:21] <Keybuk> so depending _when_ you installed bind9, it may not work ;)
[02:21] <jordi> and you sounded so confident it should get blown up
[02:21] <jordi> 1 week ago :)
[02:21] <Keybuk> ok, that's fine
[02:22] <Keybuk> for some reason, I read that you wanted to purge bind9 and have bind's conffiles that it also owned remain
[02:22] <jordi> hehe, no
[02:22] <Keybuk> if bind9 replaces bind, then bind9 will own the conffiles
[02:22] <Keybuk> (you can check with dpkg -S)
[02:26] <jordi> it went ok
[03:04] <SteveA_> ddaa: hello
[03:04] <SteveA_> niemeyer: hello
[03:04] <niemeyer> SteveA: Pong
[03:04] <ddaa> SteveA_: pong
[03:04] <SteveA_>  #canonical-meeting please
[03:16] <buntux> hi folks :)
[03:20] <buntux> are ubuntu cds really free?
[03:21] <SteveA_> yes
[03:21] <SteveA_> you can get them sent to you from shipit.ubuntu.com
[03:21] <SteveA_> and you can copy and modify them as you wish
[03:22] <buntux> free? no money?
[03:22] <SteveA_> it is possible that your countries customs office will charge some money for you to receive the CDs
[03:22] <buntux> u-n-b-l-i-e-v-ab-l-e !!!
[03:22] <SteveA_> but there is no charge from canonical to send you ubuntu CDs
[03:22] <SteveA_> just to to shipit.ubuntu.com and ask for some
[03:23] <buntux> got some friends and family, would my asking for 40CDs be satisfied?
[03:24] <SteveA_> i expect so, if you know 40 people who could use the CDs
[03:24] <Kinnison> and regardless of how much I try to give them away, I always end up with a few spare
[03:24] <Kinnison> so be careful ordering 40
[03:26] <buntux> ok, anyway, i'll order 20 and tell'em to burn copies for themselves :)
[03:30] <Kinnison> buntux: good idea
[03:32] <stu1> That was fun - laptop would wake up and immediately sleep again :-(
[03:32] <SteveA_> mine did that 
[03:33] <SteveA_> do you still have the 0telus connection script from UBZ in there?
[03:34] <stu1> Nope - never used it
[03:34] <stu1> Had to power cycle the thing
[03:37] <stu1> Ahh.... there appears to be an acpi update today
[03:37] <stu1> Might fix it
[03:37] <SteveA_> every time i do an acpi update, the next suspend is screwed
[04:47] <bradb> lifeless: my bzr merge (now trying it on two different local branches) has been sitting like this:
[04:47] <bradb> bradb@oxygen:~/canonical/malone-initial-bug-contacts $ bzr merge ../launchpad-upstream/
[04:47] <bradb> [=                                             ]  fetch revision   4/188 0:02:41
[04:47] <bradb> for the last 10-15 minutes. is that normal?
[04:48] <bradb> 28415 bradb     25   0  123m 115m 2908 R 49.9  9.2  10:27.06 bzr                                                  
[04:48] <bradb> 28514 bradb     25   0  100m  93m 2908 R 49.9  7.4   4:21.57 bzr 
[04:48] <ddaa> bradb: you're just feeling the love from my branch
[04:49] <ddaa> it's a nasty one, because it fills a bunch of ghosts.
[04:49] <ddaa> bad news: you will just have to wait
[04:49] <ddaa> good news: it's a one off
[04:51] <bradb> ddaa: ok, thanks
[04:51] <ddaa> Brutal Love.
[04:51] <ddaa> Red Red Love?
[05:17] <cprov> does anyone know how to fix this error in LP + pgsql-8.0 : 14:46:55 WARNING No permissions specified for [u'"public"."plpgsql_validator"(oid)']  ?
[05:22] <niemeyer> cprov: Adding a line for it on security.cfg?
[05:24] <cprov> niemeyer: I'm affraid it isn't that simple. Anyway if it's a LP issue I will bug stub, then he can decide
[05:24] <cprov> niemeyer: tks 
[05:26] <cprov> stub: ohh, you couldn't arrive in better time. I was talking about you
[05:27] <stub> I was crashing my laptop :-(
[05:30] <cprov> stub: hope you have time & hardware to take a look at bug # 4697 about pgsql-8.0 warning 
[05:31] <cprov> stub: not that urgent, anyway
[05:31] <stub> That is just a one line fix to security.cfg
[05:34] <bradb> hm, I've been waiting on bzr for an hour so far
[05:35] <ddaa> bradb: that does sound like too long...
[05:35] <cprov> stub: niemeyer suggested the same, if you think it's sane I'm happy you fix it when you have time, as I said, it's not urgent.
[05:36] <ddaa> bradb: are you pulling through sftp?
[05:36] <SteveA_> bradb: when you're having problems with bzr, mail robert, and be as detailed as possible about what you are doing.  cc me.
[05:36] <bradb> ddaa: it is making progress though (at 140/188 and 66/188, respectively)
[05:36] <stub> cprov: I'll land it
[05:36] <bradb> ddaa: nope, locally
[05:36] <ddaa> bradb: here, when I merged my branch into rocketfuel, locally, it took about 40 mins.
[05:36] <cprov> stub: thanks
[05:36] <ddaa> On my fearsome Mobility 1.7GHz
[05:36] <bradb> right, that sounds about right then, because i'm doing two at once
[05:37] <bradb> the only get 50% CPU each!
[05:37] <ddaa> reweaving is slow
[05:37] <SteveA_> and you're splitting your disk cache in half
[05:37] <ddaa> that kind of stuff ought not be written python
[05:37] <SteveA_> you might be a lot better running them serially
[05:37] <ddaa> SteveA_: that's not really i/o intensive, I think.
[05:38] <SteveA_> pyrex... ?
[05:38] <ddaa> I think that would help, yes.
[05:38] <SteveA_> would be interesting to see some profiler output
[05:39] <bradb> presumably bzr merge knows how to resume if I Ctrl-C? I'm afraid to learn this lesson the hard way.
[05:39] <ddaa> but OTOH, reweaving is not something that occurs normally. It's largely a artefact of baz2bzr.
[05:39] <ddaa> bradb: yes, SIGINTing _should_ be safe.
[05:39] <bradb> ok :)
[05:40] <ddaa> but you can also SIGSTOP :)
[05:40] <bradb> ah right, /me brainfarts
[05:40] <ddaa> just be if you do that, that will hold the branch lock.
[05:40] <ddaa> * just be aware
[05:40] <bradb> yeah
[05:41] <bradb> seemed to resume ok after a Ctrl-C, but i restarted the proc and ctrl-z'd just to feel a bit more fuzzy
[05:43] <carlos> ddaa, is there any plan to improve the 'bzr push' performance?
[05:43] <ddaa> carlos: well, AFAIK the current bzr push is a rsync hack...
[05:44] <carlos> ddaa, usually, I'm using rsync because is much more faster...
[05:44] <ddaa> it's not even a real push
[05:44] <carlos> ddaa, but takes ages!
[05:44] <carlos> rsync is much more faster
[05:44] <ddaa> ha, looks like real push has landed then :)
[05:44] <ddaa> well, all the network pain is planned to be fixed yes
[05:44] <ddaa> but i'm not following bzr devel closely nowadays, as you can see.
[05:44] <carlos> ddaa, I'm not talking about network push....
[05:45] <carlos> las Thursday I did a local push
[05:45] <carlos> s/las/last/
[05:45] <ddaa> ha, never did that :)
[05:45] <carlos> and it took more than 30 minutes
[05:46] <ddaa> all I can say, is "if it's painful, they probably plan to fix it".
[05:46] <carlos> ;-)
[05:59] <bradb> Did somebody (attempt to) remove the the lib/canonical/arch directory?
[06:00] <bradb> https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/4700
[06:01] <ddaa> bradb: It might have been removed as part of my branch.
[06:02] <bradb> ddaa: is there a lib/canonical/arch dir in your working tree?
[06:02] <ddaa> nope
[06:02] <bradb> ok
[06:02] <ddaa> I zapped it.
[06:02] <ddaa> Bunch of cruft.
[06:02] <ddaa> Was nice to rm it to oblivion :)
[06:03] <ddaa> mh... I guess you had some .pyc left there...
[06:03] <ddaa> The output indeed looks confusing
[06:18] <carlos> bradb, I did
[06:19] <carlos> bradb, I got some conflicts because the .pyc prevented to remove it
[06:19] <carlos> but that's all
[06:19] <elmo> lifeless: ?
[06:19] <carlos> mental note... read the answers before write anything....
[06:19] <bradb> carlos: i was just asking who actually bzr rm'ed it, just to confirm before i blew it away.
[06:20] <carlos> bradb, anyway, the history has it so it should not be a problem ;-)
[07:51] <Alinux> hello, why my "rose" translation don't become green?
[07:57] <carlos> Alinux, because the maintainer needs to download it and include with his/her package so Rosetta detects that it was included upstream
[07:57] <carlos> jordi, a new entry for our FAQ....
[07:58] <Alinux> thank you carlos...
[07:58] <Alinux> and how often he do this?
[07:59] <Alinux> and where I can find the list of basic gnome packages, to translate firs the main things... interface etc...
[07:59] <Alinux> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/+lang/ka
[08:00] <Alinux> and the best way to import .po files from breezy to dapper?
[08:00] <WaterSevenUb> carlos, some translators would like to see indication of which package comes from main, universe, etc... is that feature planned?
[08:01] <WaterSevenUb> carlos, also they would like to see if some work is being reused upstream or not... (remember, just in a user perspective)
[08:01] <carlos> Alinux, unfortunatelly, that depends on the Ubuntu maintainers so it's not automated at all
[08:02] <carlos> Alinux, about breezy -> dapper... we were planning to do the import automatically, but we had a small bug that added new translations to dapper before we had it ready....
[08:03] <Alinux> so I ust import everything automatically?
[08:03] <Alinux> manualy
[08:03] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, if it comes from main, universe, etc... will be noted as soon as we start using launchpad to handle Ubuntu developement
[08:03] <Alinux> i mean.
[08:04] <WaterSevenUb> carlos, also... 2 and 3 points in http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/rosetta-users/2005-November/001032.html
[08:04] <jordi> carlos: yeah
[08:04] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, usually, if it's gree, is because upstream are using the translations (either upstream like GNOME, Debian or directly the Ubuntu source packages)
[08:04] <jordi> I want to write this stuff in an hour ro so
[08:04] <carlos> jordi, ok, thanks
[08:05] <carlos> Alinux, what ever is best for you. Anyway, in the next three months we will have an easy way to reuse the translations from other releases with a specific review interface
[08:05] <Alinux> carlos, so there will be a new version of rosetta in the future? more intuitive and flaxible?
[08:06] <carlos> Alinux, Rosetta is a moving system, we are adding new features all time
[08:06] <carlos> but sometimes are internal features and you don't see them
[08:06] <carlos> but I work full time on Rosetta
[08:07] <Alinux> carlos, and where can I find some howtos, guides and this sort of stuff?
[08:07] <carlos> Alinux, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Rosetta and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RosettaFAQ
[08:07] <carlos> Alinux, if you don't find your answer there
[08:07] <carlos> ask me or jordi and we will add it 
[08:08] <WaterSevenUb> carlos, in breezy it was a madness to notice that templates were changing without warning for translators worried with that specific  template
[08:08] <Alinux> and a very stupid question :) Who is Rosetta? Someones girlfriend's name?
[08:08] <carlos> is better if you ask jordi, but if he's not around, ping me
[08:08] <jordi> see the FAQ :)
[08:08] <WaterSevenUb> carlos, so a subscription service would be great.... no?
[08:08] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, we have a spec for the subscription feature, but not implemented yet and I don't think it will be implemented in next three months...
[08:09] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/translation-subscriptions
[08:09] <WaterSevenUb> carlos, subscription feature for template changes and also translation changes?
[08:09] <WaterSevenUb> ok
[08:09] <carlos> Alinux, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+specs <--- There you have many documentation about the way Rosetta works
[08:10] <carlos> but it's too technical
[08:10] <Alinux> ;)
[08:10] <WaterSevenUb> carlos, template changes.... so how about if a product is 100% translated and someone goes there and by accident changes something... the other translator will not be allowed to subscribe to that kind of changes...
[08:11] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, if the spec does not fits your requirements, please, file a bug report and we will try to improve the spec
[08:11] <Alinux> and where I can find a basic gnome-ubuntu packages list... the main packages I mean... to work with them fist of all.
[08:11] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, anyway, let me read the spec, I don't remember all the details
[08:13] <WaterSevenUb> carlos, hhmm I'm confused. This Use Case Paul is the French Ubuntu translator for Evolution. seems to be what I was talking about, isn't it?
[08:13] <carlos> Alinux, we don't have such list yet...
[08:14] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, yes, please, file a bug report referencing the spec and noting that is lacking a solution for that use case
[08:14] <Alinux> carlos, but I think it will be very useful, to know what is more or less important package....
[08:15] <Alinux> and what about initial terminal installer? I can't find packages name to translate is...
[08:16] <carlos> Alinux, If we don't have it, it doesn't mean we will not implement it ;-)
[08:16] <carlos> Alinux, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+specs notes also what are we working on
[08:17] <Alinux> ;)
[08:17] <carlos> the High priority and approved are the ones we will implement soon
[08:18] <Alinux> and what about installer?
[08:20] <Alinux> hehe I found you mini foto carlos :) Spanish brother :)
[08:20] <Alinux> thank you for your work :)
[08:21] <Alinux> and sorry for my sometimes silly questions :)
[08:21] <Alinux> can you tell me , where I can find installer's package template?
[08:21] <carlos> Alinux, I talked with Kamion about a plan for the Debian installer 
[08:22] <carlos> but I cannot give you a date when will be implemented...
[08:22] <carlos> Alinux, it's not yet imported for dapper
[08:26] <Alinux> and for breezy? I can start with breezy...no probs.
[08:28] <carlos> It makes no sense to translate breezy's or hoary's installer, it's not going to change
[08:31] <lifeless> elmo: around?
[08:31] <Alinux> so what can I do  to implement Georgian language in installer too?
[08:32] <carlos> Alinux, for breezy?
[08:32] <carlos> I don't think you can do anything there, sorry
[08:32] <Alinux> for breezy :) or future dapper :) for me is the same
[08:32] <elmo> lifeless: yes
[08:33] <carlos> Alinux, I think you only need to translate it. Kamion will get the translations directly from Rosetta
[08:33] <lifeless> elmo: I was pinging you about two things. The asterix project and the i386 chroot
[08:34] <elmo> lifeless: read your email; the i386 chroot is done
[08:34] <Alinux> Kamion? Ca you tell me the packages name...or link, something...
[08:34] <elmo> lifeless: what about the asterix?
[08:35] <lifeless> mark asked if you'd negotiate the contract foo, AIUI.
[08:35] <lifeless> ahha, 5am for the chroot - thanks!
[08:35] <elmo> meh, ok
[08:36] <lifeless> nov 13, 're: Pictures & Asterisk'
[08:36] <lifeless> coordinate a proposal.
[08:36] <lifeless> anyway, I'm not clear whose meant to talk money to the guy, and the current outstanding questions he has are on hardware.
[08:37] <elmo> yeah, I've been watching the exchange, I'll see about replying
[08:37] <lifeless> that would be great
[08:38] <lifeless> I think he wants to do more than we do ;). 
[08:39] <lifeless> let me check my understanding with yours: we are aiming for a internal PBX facility - voip between any two staff members - and thats it.
[08:39] <carlos> Alinux, the installer is not yet imported
[08:39] <carlos> Alinux, it will be as part of 'debian-installer' package
[08:39] <carlos> time to leave
[08:39] <carlos> see you tomorrow!
[08:39] <Alinux> ;) ah ok... thank you :)
[08:39] <lifeless> night carlos 
[08:40] <lifeless> elmo: ^^
[08:40] <elmo> lifeless: that's the basic requirement yes; tho I imagine if we do this, we ought to be able to do conferences if they're not much more effort
[08:40] <lifeless> ah right.
[08:40] <lifeless> point to point and conferencing between staff
[08:40] <elmo> yeah
[08:41] <lifeless> but we don't care (in the first implementation) to have external connections
[08:42] <lifeless> I'm trying to rule out things like voice cards and connections to other voip exchanges, which asterix folk love, but add to the complexity
[08:43] <elmo> well, I dunno, if we don't do external, we can only do conference with people on voip?
[08:43] <lifeless> if we rule those out, then it should be very simple, and give us the primary benefits. We can always come back and setup a connection to BT later, or to the outside world.
[08:43] <elmo> OTOH, conference is definitely second stage
[08:43] <lifeless> I suspect most of our conferences are within the group of folk we're getting voip for anyway.
[08:45] <lifeless> so how about I reply back with requirements in two steps - step one is 'conference and normal calls within the staff and anyone else we give an 'extension number' to.'
[08:46] <lifeless> step two is 'external connectivity via either landlines or other voip switches or both.'
[08:46] <lifeless> ok with you ?
[08:49] <elmo> lifeless: sounds fine, yeah
[08:49] <lifeless> thanks!
[08:59] <lifeless> done
[09:37] <niemeyer> Anyone knows about a script which may be considered as "the right way to do cronjobing in Launchpad" to be used as a model?
[09:38] <mdz> anyone seen kiko?
[09:38] <niemeyer> mdz: He's still on leave, I guess..
[10:02] <ddaa> niemeyer: did you look at launchpad/cronscripts?
[10:34] <WaterSevenUb> I had a translator asking how is the karma measured... 
[10:34] <WaterSevenUb> is that written somewhere?
[11:02] <niemeyer> ddaa: Doesn't look like there's anything special about these..
[11:06] <niemeyer> ddaa: I mean, where are the mentioned tests for instance?
[11:06] <OgMaciel> I think Rosetta is going nuts... my karma keeps going down no matter what I do
[11:06] <ddaa> hum...
[11:06] <OgMaciel> anyone know why by any chance?
[11:08] <ddaa> niemeyer: there's also lib/canonical/launchpad/scripts
[11:09] <niemeyer> ddaa: Yes, that looks like a bunch of utilities for scripts..
[11:10] <ddaa> but the tests do not seem very relevant to the cronscripts...
[11:10] <niemeyer> ddaa: bzrsync even imports some functions from there already.
[11:12] <ddaa> the annoying thing is also that the various people SteveA suggest to ask to are all .au folks
[11:12] <ddaa> mh... except stub who is now in thailand... but that does not fix the tz
[11:13] <ddaa> I think we ought to displace one of them to canada or something
[11:17] <ddaa> niemeyer: I do not see much specific stuff, except the _pythonpath, logging, lockfile, execute_zcml_for_scripts and initZopeless.
[11:18] <ddaa> ha, there's also the launchpad.config integration
[11:19] <ddaa> * launchpad.conf
[11:19] <niemeyer> ddaa: We're already using most of it..
[11:19] <niemeyer> (in bzrsync)
[11:19] <ddaa> that much less to do
[11:20] <ddaa> the specific dbuser for each script... that would mean some changes in the security.cfg to separate what is needed for cscvs and what is needed for bzrsync
[11:23] <ddaa> also, there should probably be some sort of email reporting
[11:23] <niemeyer> ddaa: Understood
[11:23] <ddaa> I'll drill the .au guys tomorrow
[11:23] <ddaa> morning, before you wake up
[11:23] <niemeyer> ddaa: Ok, thanks
[11:23] <ddaa> about the way cronscripts are handled in prod, and about testing practices
[11:24] <ddaa> It looks like somebody intended to make a consistent framework, but stopped at mid-course...
[11:27] <niemeyer> ddaa: Meanwhile, I'll make bzrsync do what it's not yet doing (lockfile)
[11:29] <ddaa> niemeyer: might be good to use the canonical.launchpad.scripts logging stuff. I do not know if and how it differs from the existing logging, but it appears to be consistently used in existing cronscripts.
[11:31] <niemeyer> ddaa: Indeed.. that's a one liner, since we're already using logger.
[11:31] <niemeyer> ddaa: We must also implement option parsing..
[11:31] <ddaa> right, I'm not sure how much is actually needed for bzrsync...
[11:31] <ddaa> ...
[11:32] <ddaa> ha, here's the thing... this cronscript thing is not bzrsync itself
[11:32] <ddaa> bzrsync does one branch, right?
[11:32] <ddaa> the cronscript should do all branches on the public area of the supermirror
[11:33] <ddaa> configuration data will include the sftp root of the public supermirror.
[11:33] <ddaa> dbuser to use
[11:34] <ddaa> mh... I cannot think of anything else
[11:35] <niemeyer> ddaa: Well, this is bzrsync, but with additional changes.
[11:35] <niemeyer> ddaa: Or you mean we'll need the current bzrsync for something else?
[11:36] <ddaa> I'd be inclined toward leaving the doing-business part of bzrsync, with tests in importd, and only putting the cronscript machinery in cronscripts.
[11:36] <ddaa> But that's a matter of taste.
[11:37] <niemeyer> I see
[11:37] <ddaa> Eventually, I think we'll want bzrsync not be a cronscript.
[11:38] <ddaa> When we have importd->push-sftp->xmlrpc->supermirror->public area->xmlrpc->bzrsync.
[11:39] <ddaa> So latency between rcs imports and new data displayed in launchpad will be minimised.
[11:39] <ddaa> But we're nowhere near there yet.
[11:41] <niemeyer> ddaa: We need the branch-id -> supermirror-url method in Branch objects.
[11:41] <ddaa> nah
[11:41] <niemeyer> ddaa: This is something that will change with nullable urls in the near future
[11:41] <niemeyer> ddaa: nah?
[11:41] <ddaa> you should sftp to the supermirror and use the backend, id-based, file system hierarchy.
[11:42] <ddaa> Already talked that bit through with spiv and jblack.
[11:43] <ddaa> Given a Branch in the DB, you get the id, then you can find the branch directly on the SM. No need to use the Branch.url at all.
[11:44] <niemeyer> Is there a reason for it, given that the supermirror has http access to these branches anyway?
[11:44] <niemeyer> and that we need to know the supermirror url inside Launchpad anyway
[11:44] <ddaa> Robustness against concurrent renames.
[11:45] <ddaa> not a big deal, but it's the more correct and simplest way of doing it
[11:45] <ddaa> do you there's a problem with that approach?
[11:45] <ddaa> * do you think
[11:46] <niemeyer> ddaa: Agreed
[11:47] <niemeyer> ddaa: Not at all.. was just wondering why the extra effort
[11:47] <ddaa> obviously, if the id-based fs hierachy is not there... it would be saner to use http and add (dunno where) the logic to compute SM public urls for branches.
[11:48] <ddaa> you're caught in a maze of interlocking subsystems, all different
[11:48] <ddaa> it's getting dark in there
[11:48] <ddaa> you might be eaten by a grue
[11:49] <niemeyer> :-)
[12:00] <niemeyer> ddaa: Do you know if the "backend" of SupermirrorFSH is in place already?
[12:01] <ddaa> I don't.
[12:01] <niemeyer> ddaa: I mean, if we have a directory structure with ids inside the server already
[12:01] <ddaa> I understand.
[12:01] <niemeyer> Ok
[12:01] <ddaa> lifeless said something about jblack's script, so I think he would be the guy to sync with about that.
[12:02] <ddaa> he=lifeless
[12:02] <ddaa> lifeless: ping