[12:59] <mdke> everning
[12:59] <Madpilot> afternoon
[01:00] <mdke> hi Madpilot 
[01:01] <Madpilot> there's some really strange stuff in the wiki... Exhibit A: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkFeedback  ;)
[01:03] <mdke> looking
[01:04] <mdke> haha
[01:04] <mdke> that's the beauty of the old wiki
[01:05] <Madpilot> I'm tempted to just nuke that - "Too silly to exist" - but somebody might actually object...
[01:06] <mdke> Madpilot, no, the page seems to be intended by the artwork team for a proper purpose
[01:06] <mdke> the comment is a bit odd, but then again, some other comments might come
[01:07] <Madpilot> I guess - I'll leave it - it's just an odd comment...
[01:07] <mdke> heh
[02:13] <mdke> sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/boot.jpg
[02:13] <mdke> sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/logo.jpg
[02:13] <mdke> sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/menu.jpg
[02:13] <mdke> sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/play.jpg
[02:13] <mdke> gah
[02:13] <mdke> stupid goddam laptop
[02:55] <jsgotangco> hi all
[03:53] <jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia are you good with servers?
[03:53] <Burgundavia> not really had much experience with them
[03:54] <jsgotangco> for some reason all my users have access to each others' $home
[03:54] <Burgundavia> read only?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> well yes
[03:54] <Burgundavia> that is a not a bug
[03:54] <jsgotangco> but they shouldn't really be able to cd to /home/foo
[03:55] <Burgundavia> by default home directories are world readable
[03:55] <jsgotangco> wow
[03:55] <jsgotangco> that
[03:55] <Burgundavia> there are was a long thread about it about 2 months ago on ubuntu-devel
[03:55] <jsgotangco> that's not the case for hoary...
[03:55] <jsgotangco> hmmm so its a breezy thing...
[03:55] <jsgotangco> harry potter?
[03:55] <jsgotangco> hehe
[03:56] <jsgotangco> oh home video
[04:08] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, I think that the world readable is a longtime unix thing
[04:09] <dabaR> hey, um, just if you have time, check this out.
[04:10] <dabaR> http://dabar.selfip.org/synaptic.html
[04:10] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia: no way
[04:11] <Burgundavia> dabaR, cool. Unfortunately the repo dialog is going to be totally redesigned for dapper
[04:11] <dabaR> so you told me.
[04:11] <dabaR> that is a good thing.
[04:11] <Burgundavia> mdke, ping
[04:11] <dabaR> k, later.
[04:11] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, it is
[04:12] <Burgundavia> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-October/012404.html
[04:13] <Burgundavia> specifically --> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-October/012406.html
[04:17] <jsgotangco> sucks
[04:17] <jsgotangco> i'll just edit sshd_config then
[04:39] <Burgundavia> salut robitaille 
[04:40] <robitaille> bonsoir Burgundavia 
[04:44] <jsgotangco> hello robitaille 
[04:44] <robitaille> Hi jsgotangco 
[04:44] <Burgundavia> anybody know where i can find this background?
[04:44] <Burgundavia> http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/images/af/af-shot1.png
[04:45] <Burgundavia> the archive doesn't appear to have it anymore
[04:46] <robitaille> which month is it?  http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/  seems to have debs of all the months
[04:46] <Burgundavia> those are not the images
[04:46] <Burgundavia> I just checked
[04:51] <robitaille> Burgundavia,  are you sure? I have downloaded the December file, and there are in there 2 jpg for that month; they are background 1600x1200 jpgs
[04:53] <robitaille> that background looks so familiar.  It  must have been one of the months...
[04:54] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  is it worth filing  a bug about a mistake in the default html for firefox in Edubuntu?  or these static start html are going the way of the dodo for dapper?
[04:55] <Burgundavia> ah, it is march
[04:55] <Burgundavia> the static html is going away
[04:55] <Burgundavia> for start.ubuntu.com
[04:59] <robitaille> but start.ubuntu.com is a general ubuntu page.  you probably want something a lot more specific (and maybe kid friendly) for Edubuntu
[04:59] <Burgundavia> sure
[05:00] <Burgundavia> but that is an edubuntu decision
[05:00] <Burgundavia> and kubuntu one
[05:00] <robitaille> thus back to my original question to jsgotangco  since he was the doc guy for edubuntu :)
[05:00] <Burgundavia> ah, I misread it, sorry
[05:02] <Burgundavia> robitaille, you updated your wiki page with for your laptop yet?
[05:03] <robitaille> I started.  I have updated the top LaptopTesting Page.  but haven't entered any dapper details yet in my subpage.  I was hoping to do it later tonight.  I have spent part of the day testing edubuntu with the kids :)
[05:04] <Burgundavia> I woke up at 5pm
[05:11] <jsgotangco> same here i just downloaded dapper last night but haven't started installing
[05:11] <robitaille> Burgundavia,   you know, sometimes I used to that.  Then I got married :)   I got up at 8:15am, and that was a very late morning for me :)
[05:11] <jsgotangco> its good practice to clean up the page early though
[05:12] <jsgotangco> i was surprised to see a milestone this early too
[05:12] <Burgundavia> that was the goal
[05:12] <Burgundavia> get one out as soon as possibly
[05:12] <Burgundavia> s/y/e
[05:13] <jsgotangco> i'm in irssi via ssh i can't scroll at all
[05:13] <Burgundavia> I haven't seen my gf all weekend, which is why I have been sleeping a lot
[05:14] <jsgotangco> ok so girlfriends are a bane to sane sleeping habits
[05:15] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  I was asking if you want a bug report for a small mistake in the static html for firefox in Edubuntu
[05:15] <jsgotangco> robitaille: sure
[05:16] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, i wish to discuss a small point regarding server guide, shall we ?
[05:16] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: sure let me move to a saner chat client...
[05:18] <jsgotangco> ok that's better :)
[05:18] <bhuvan> fine
[05:18] <bhuvan> can we make server guide part of kubuntu-docs too ?
[05:19] <jsgotangco> i'm sorry i haven't been able to do the minutes of the past meeting yet; i've been busy with some stuff especially with my upcoming talk in seoul
[05:19] <bhuvan> ok
[05:19] <jsgotangco> bhuvan, sure its just a matter of inclusion to the package...
[05:19] <bhuvan> ok, the reason is .. jjesse raised this point
[05:19] <jsgotangco> if you remember, there was a discussion about -common
[05:19] <jsgotangco> but that needs a lot of discussion
[05:20] <bhuvan> ok
[05:20] <jsgotangco> well in my opinion, a server guide has little need of gui tools unless the product has server gui tools
[05:21] <bhuvan> true
[05:30] <Burgundavia> ubuntu-server has no gui tools and never will
[05:31] <jsgotangco> Burgundavia, its about people whou would like to use say Kubuntu for a server
[05:31] <Burgundavia> right
[05:32] <Burgundavia> but I think we should target our server guide at ubuntu-server
[05:32] <bhuvan> Burgundavia, true. but, it should not restrict the kubuntu user who wish to install a server application
[05:32] <Burgundavia> that is fine
[05:32] <Burgundavia> they can install by commandline
[05:33] <jsgotangco> i think its best to make the server guide as generic as possible
[05:33] <bhuvan> yeah, though we may provide instructions about other package manager in the beginning..
[05:33] <jsgotangco> the most generic you can get is via cli
[05:33] <Burgundavia> maybe we shoudl move the server guide to a top level folder of its own?
[05:33] <Burgundavia> bhuvan, talking about gui package management on in a serverguide is a bad thing
[05:34] <jsgotangco> unless you're RedHat
[05:34] <bhuvan> yeah!
[05:34] <Burgundavia> hence we talk about aptitude, apt-get, etc.
[05:34] <bhuvan> but, i've planned to give an introduction about all package manage in the beginning
[05:34] <Burgundavia> that is a bad thing, IMHO
[05:34] <bhuvan> i'll use apt-get through out the document
[05:34] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:35] <jsgotangco> if you even mention say synaptic
[05:35] <Burgundavia> why do you need to bother the user with talking about synaptic at the start if you use apt-get throughout?
[05:35] <jsgotangco> and the user decides to get it
[05:35] <jsgotangco> he'll be downloading the whole desktop again
[05:35] <bhuvan> also think this. what if he's installing a server application, say apache on the existing desktop (kubuntu or ubuntu) ?
[05:36] <bhuvan> he may feel free to use either synaptic/apt-get, its upto him
[05:36] <Burgundavia> so?
[05:36] <bhuvan> so, introduction about available packages may help 
[05:36] <Burgundavia> talking about gui package stuff is a recipe for bad things
[05:36] <bhuvan> i'm not going to use synaptic/adept though in my document. i'm using apt-get
[05:36] <Burgundavia> and if they know how to install apache, they should already know how to use synaptic
[05:37] <bhuvan> Burgundavia, i understand
[05:37] <Burgundavia> hence we don't need to talk about it
[05:37] <jsgotangco> i think the main goal here is to make a server guide that is very friendly just like our starter guide
[05:37] <jsgotangco> but friendly meaning its cli-friendly and not complicated
[05:37] <Burgundavia> and friendly means we don't bait and switch
[08:36] <Burgundavia> 
[08:36] <Burgundavia> Tenrec 
[08:38] <jsgotangco> ?
[08:43] <Madpilot> Traumatized Tapir?
[08:47] <Madpilot> ...interesting... Creative Commons doesn't seem to have a simple CC-SA license - only CC-BY-SA or full Public Domain... too bad
[08:53] <Burgundavia> how about Oblivious Ocelet?
[08:53] <Burgundavia> Tanked Terrapin?
[08:53] <Burgundavia> Xenophobic Xenu?
[08:53] <Madpilot> wtf is a Xenu?
[08:54] <Burgundavia> think I should remove obiviously bad names?
[08:54] <Madpilot> "Xenu" would be a bad idea - 15 seconds of Googling shows that it's got something to do with Scientology
[08:54] <Burgundavia> Xebu, typo on my part
[08:56] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, you still have that java app floating around/
[08:56] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:56] <Burgundavia> the one that named GW something funny?
[08:57] <Madpilot> I think I've got a version of it, yeah
[08:57] <Madpilot> want to create a "name the next Ubuntu" version?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> indeed
[08:58] <Burgundavia> too bad java is non-free
[08:58] <Burgundavia> could we do a version with js
[08:58] <Burgundavia> ?
[08:59] <jsgotangco> for?
[08:59] <Burgundavia> random fun
[08:59] <jsgotangco> my cellphone uses java more than my computer
[09:00] <Burgundavia> the only java I have installed is the free stuff
[09:00] <Burgundavia> which incidentally doesn't run the only other java I have on my computer, a game I downloaded
[09:01] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: a pure-JavaScript version might be possible
[09:01] <jsgotangco> its more lucrative to do java on mobile phones now compared to desktop i guess
[09:01] <Madpilot> but it's made harder by the fact that the Ubuntu names always alliterate
[09:56] <Burgundavia> jsgotangco, what sort of policy do we want to have for people joining the LP team but have not generated useful work for us?
[09:59] <jsgotangco> good question
[09:59] <jsgotangco> well we did kick out 1 or 2 people i believe
[09:59] <Burgundavia> and the latest two I have not approved
[09:59] <jsgotangco> oh approval is easy
[09:59] <jsgotangco> deactivating is not
[10:00] <Burgundavia> shall I raise it on the mailing list
[10:00] <jsgotangco> since the team is now tied up with malone, it becomes a bit complicated
[10:00] <Burgundavia> I think it should be a group decision
[10:00] <jsgotangco> soon it'll become tied up with a package and a supermirror
[10:00] <Burgundavia> and wiki team is likely going to be tied to greater privs on the wiki as well
[10:01] <jsgotangco> oh i remember~
[10:01] <jsgotangco> we talked about the lp team during the meeting
[10:01] <Burgundavia> excellnt
[10:01] <Burgundavia> I was too tired to come, sorry
[10:01] <jsgotangco> other people were there like Riddell , jbailey, ogra, etc.
[10:01] <jsgotangco> they suggested that ubuntu-doc members should comprise approved ubuntu-members
[10:02] <jsgotangco> so basically if an ubuntu-member wants to join the doc, it'll be easier
[10:02] <Burgundavia> ah
[10:02] <Burgundavia> so they have to become a member before they can become a member of ubuntu-doc?
[10:02] <jsgotangco> its not really whitelisting, but its really safe to add to commit access and lp for ubuntu-members rather than those who aren't
[10:02] <jsgotangco> basically
[10:02] <jsgotangco> especially with commit privs
[10:03] <Burgundavia> ok, that seems fair
[10:03] <jsgotangco> it needs fleshing out the details though
[10:03] <jsgotangco> but we have a higher chance of better performance with an ubuntu-member rather than not
[10:03] <jsgotangco> (although it does leave out those who aren't into membership)
[10:04] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:04] <Burgundavia> but that is not a big deal I think
[10:04] <Burgundavia> but should they have to produce something for us before they are allowed to join?
[10:07] <jsgotangco> well come to think of it, any person who contributes to doc can easily be a member
[10:07] <jsgotangco> like bhuvan for example
[10:08] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:08] <jsgotangco> so if he's already an ubuntu-member, we can just easily add him to -doc
[10:08] <jsgotangco> and it makes it easier to justify to elmo svn access
[10:08] <jsgotangco> because a.) he's approved
[10:09] <jsgotangco> b.) he's signed the CoC
[10:09] <Burgundavia> but several of the pending members have not producing anything useful for the team that I can see
[10:09] <jsgotangco> we can probably tell them to contribute something first...
[10:09] <Burgundavia> in other words, should applying for membership and being an ubuntu-member be enough to give you membership to ubuntu-doc?
[10:10] <jsgotangco> well ok that's a good question
[10:10] <jsgotangco> how does MOTU do it?
[10:10] <Burgundavia> anyboyd can upload to REVU
[10:10] <Burgundavia> to become a member of MOTU, you need technical board approval
[10:11] <Burgundavia> they are not really a valid example in this case
[10:11] <Burgundavia> but no other team is really big enough yet
[10:11] <Burgundavia> art is too new, marketing doesn't exist, nun is dead
[10:11] <Burgundavia> wiki is too new
[10:11] <jsgotangco> hmm
[10:12] <jsgotangco> i don't want to see our position as unique as with other teams but we do have certain upload privs which needs consideration
[10:12] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:12] <bhuvan> .. should i've to apply for ubuntu membership ?
[10:13] <Burgundavia> bhuvan, you have enough, IMHO, to apply for ubuntu-membership now
[10:13] <jsgotangco> yes
[10:13] <Burgundavia> and the next CC meeting to 2 days from now
[10:13] <bhuvan> ok. i'll add my name for membership then
[10:13] <bhuvan> yeah
[10:14] <Burgundavia> I like the idea of asking people to produce something before they ask for membership to ubuntu-docs
[10:15] <Burgundavia> just as we have been doing up until now
[10:16] <jsgotangco> well yes, it doesn't change anything
[10:16] <Burgundavia> yes, it just codifies what is there
[10:16] <Burgundavia> in case either of us drop off the planet
[10:16] <jsgotangco> imo, membership is just an incentive/reward for contribution
[10:23] <Burgundavia> nor do I
[10:24] <Burgundavia> night
[12:05] <Madpilot> do programs in Universe get bug-reported to Launchpad or Bugzilla.u.c?
[03:07] <jjesse> what was the command to build the desktop guide again, left that email at home :(
[03:07] <bhuvan> dg-C ?
[03:08] <bhuvan> i meant 'make dg-C'
[03:10] <jsgotangco> hello
[03:16] <jjesse> thanks bhuvan 
[03:16] <jjesse> morning jsgotangco 
[03:18] <jsgotangco> morning =)
[03:19] <bhuvan> jjesse, ok
[03:20] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, when're you leaving to seoul ? how long you'll be in seoul ?
[03:20] <Belutz> jsgotangco, hi
[03:20] <jsgotangco> just 4 days
[03:21] <jsgotangco> hey Belutz how's things?
[03:21] <Belutz> i got flu :(
[03:21] <jsgotangco> Belutz: i pray its not bird flu :P
[03:21] <Belutz> jsgotangco, no it's not :)
[03:21] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:22] <bhuvan> night all
[03:22] <Belutz> hmm, the debian conference commitee could give 30 minutes slot
[03:22] <jsgotangco> haha dude i can't fly with that short notice
[03:22] <Belutz> ok :)
[03:23] <jsgotangco> Belutz: hey you can speak in behalf of ubuntu anyways
[03:23] <Belutz> maybe next time :)
[03:23] <Belutz> hmm, i'm not ready yet
[03:23] <jsgotangco> when will that be?
[03:23] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:24] <Belutz> after, i'm no longer a newbie :-)
[03:36] <jsgotangco> im going back later
[03:36] <jsgotangco> brb
[04:51] <jsgotangco> re
[05:03] <jsgotangco> good night
[07:10] <mdke> gah
[07:11] <mdke> Riddell, you have to be patient
[07:11] <Riddell> ah yes, just very slow
[07:11] <Riddell> the stylesheets on e.g. http://help.ubuntu.com/kde/krelease-notes/C/index.html don't really work
[07:11] <Riddell> well, they arn't there
[07:12] <Riddell> can you update it use those three docs from trunk?
[07:12] <mdke> yes
[07:13] <mdke> Riddell, i used a kde stylesheet for those tho, was it a different one?
[07:13] <Riddell> mdke: I think you used the one sean made up, in trunk we're now using the ones from KDE docs
[07:15] <mdke> i used one which was packaged in kdelibs-data
[07:16] <mdke> Riddell, anyhow when I get home I'll look at it
[09:58] <mdke> Riddell, yo?
[10:04] <Riddell> mdke: hmm?
[10:05] <mdke> Riddell, can you walk me through what is going down with the -html and -web targets in the Makefile? last time I looked there was just -web
[10:06] <Riddell> mdke: -web is for the web, -html is offline html and normal target is offline .bz2 of html
[10:06] <mdke> Riddell, ok so you have changed the stylesheets for -web and added -html?
[10:18] <Riddell> yes
[10:19] <mdke> Riddell, ok, and how does -html work? i see it uses meinproc rather than xslproc, and i don't see the stylesheets
[10:19] <Riddell> mdke: it uses the default KDE stylesheet
[10:19] <mdke> Riddell, does meinproc just know that automatically?
[10:20] <Riddell> mdke: seems to yes
[10:20] <mdke> right
[10:20] <mdke> we'll have to update some of the docs to tell people to install meinproc
[10:20] <mdke> it's not on my system
[10:20] <Riddell> it should be in the package build-deps
[10:21] <mdke> Riddell, i don't see that package
[10:21] <Riddell> kubuntu-docs
[10:21] <mdke> ah i see
[10:21] <Riddell> what I havn't worked out is how i18n works
[10:22] <mdke> ok
[10:22] <mdke> Riddell, fire away
[10:22] <Riddell> umm, nothing to fire, I don't know how it works in ubuntu-docs
[10:23] <mdke> Riddell, we make pot file templates from the xml, upload them to rosetta, download the po files, change them back to xml
[10:23] <mdke> i would suggest using the same system for (k)(ed)ubuntu l10n
[10:24] <Riddell> when are they uploaded and when are they downloaded?
[10:25] <Riddell> and who's going to set this up for dapper?
[10:25] <mdke> Riddell, we upload them after string freeze, and download them before the translation freeze. And I intend to do an update for breezy too
[10:25] <mdke> Riddell, i can do it
[10:26] <Riddell> aah
[10:26] <Riddell> where do the translations go?  into ubuntu-docs?
[10:27] <mdke> Riddell, yes, although jbailey wanted to talk about language-packs. But now he's no longer with us, I'm thinking that won't happen
[10:28] <Riddell> I think dholbach will do it
[10:29] <Riddell> you just ship the .xml file, doesn't that take a long time to covert to HTML when viewing?
[10:29] <mdke> it will be very difficult I think
[10:29] <mdke> Riddell, in gnome yelp is the viewer, it reads xml directly. although it is a bit sluggish
[10:29] <mdke> brb
[10:47] <mdke> back
[11:01] <mdke> jjesse, around?
[11:05] <mdke> damn you!