=== manicka [n=grant@203-217-90-215.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=grant@203-217-90-215.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [12:59] everning [12:59] afternoon [01:00] hi Madpilot [01:01] there's some really strange stuff in the wiki... Exhibit A: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkFeedback ;) [01:03] looking [01:04] haha [01:04] that's the beauty of the old wiki [01:05] I'm tempted to just nuke that - "Too silly to exist" - but somebody might actually object... [01:06] Madpilot, no, the page seems to be intended by the artwork team for a proper purpose [01:06] the comment is a bit odd, but then again, some other comments might come [01:07] I guess - I'll leave it - it's just an odd comment... [01:07] heh === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:13] sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/boot.jpg [02:13] sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/logo.jpg [02:13] sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/menu.jpg [02:13] sftp://matt@eustathios:22/stuff/www/mdke/images/ipod/play.jpg [02:13] gah [02:13] stupid goddam laptop === jsgotangco [n=jerome@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:55] hi all === Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jerome@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:53] hey Burgundavia are you good with servers? [03:53] not really had much experience with them [03:54] for some reason all my users have access to each others' $home [03:54] read only? [03:54] well yes [03:54] that is a not a bug [03:54] but they shouldn't really be able to cd to /home/foo [03:55] by default home directories are world readable [03:55] wow [03:55] that [03:55] there are was a long thread about it about 2 months ago on ubuntu-devel [03:55] that's not the case for hoary... [03:55] hmmm so its a breezy thing... === Burgundavia is going to return a movie, back in about 15 [03:55] harry potter? [03:55] hehe [03:56] oh home video [04:08] jsgotangco, I think that the world readable is a longtime unix thing === dabaR [n=dabaR@wnpgmb02dc1-156-77.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:09] hey, um, just if you have time, check this out. [04:10] http://dabar.selfip.org/synaptic.html [04:10] Burgundavia: no way [04:11] dabaR, cool. Unfortunately the repo dialog is going to be totally redesigned for dapper [04:11] so you told me. [04:11] that is a good thing. [04:11] mdke, ping [04:11] k, later. === dabaR [n=dabaR@wnpgmb02dc1-156-77.dynamic.mts.net] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === jjesse [i=user@69-87-140-67.async.iserv.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:11] jsgotangco, it is [04:12] http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-October/012404.html [04:13] specifically --> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-October/012406.html [04:17] sucks [04:17] i'll just edit sshd_config then === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:39] salut robitaille [04:40] bonsoir Burgundavia [04:44] hello robitaille [04:44] Hi jsgotangco [04:44] anybody know where i can find this background? [04:44] http://davyd.ucc.asn.au/images/af/af-shot1.png [04:45] the archive doesn't appear to have it anymore [04:46] which month is it? http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/u/ seems to have debs of all the months [04:46] those are not the images [04:46] I just checked [04:51] Burgundavia, are you sure? I have downloaded the December file, and there are in there 2 jpg for that month; they are background 1600x1200 jpgs [04:53] that background looks so familiar. It must have been one of the months... [04:54] jsgotangco, is it worth filing a bug about a mistake in the default html for firefox in Edubuntu? or these static start html are going the way of the dodo for dapper? [04:55] ah, it is march [04:55] the static html is going away [04:55] for start.ubuntu.com [04:59] but start.ubuntu.com is a general ubuntu page. you probably want something a lot more specific (and maybe kid friendly) for Edubuntu [04:59] sure [05:00] but that is an edubuntu decision [05:00] and kubuntu one [05:00] thus back to my original question to jsgotangco since he was the doc guy for edubuntu :) [05:00] ah, I misread it, sorry [05:02] robitaille, you updated your wiki page with for your laptop yet? === Burgundavia feels like JaneW [05:03] I started. I have updated the top LaptopTesting Page. but haven't entered any dapper details yet in my subpage. I was hoping to do it later tonight. I have spent part of the day testing edubuntu with the kids :) [05:04] I woke up at 5pm === bhuvan [n=ubuntu@b14.gw.maa.collab.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:11] same here i just downloaded dapper last night but haven't started installing [05:11] Burgundavia, you know, sometimes I used to that. Then I got married :) I got up at 8:15am, and that was a very late morning for me :) [05:11] its good practice to clean up the page early though [05:12] i was surprised to see a milestone this early too [05:12] that was the goal [05:12] get one out as soon as possibly [05:12] s/y/e [05:13] i'm in irssi via ssh i can't scroll at all [05:13] I haven't seen my gf all weekend, which is why I have been sleeping a lot [05:14] ok so girlfriends are a bane to sane sleeping habits [05:15] jsgotangco, I was asking if you want a bug report for a small mistake in the static html for firefox in Edubuntu [05:15] robitaille: sure [05:16] jsgotangco, i wish to discuss a small point regarding server guide, shall we ? [05:16] bhuvan: sure let me move to a saner chat client... === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:18] ok that's better :) [05:18] fine [05:18] can we make server guide part of kubuntu-docs too ? [05:19] i'm sorry i haven't been able to do the minutes of the past meeting yet; i've been busy with some stuff especially with my upcoming talk in seoul [05:19] ok [05:19] bhuvan, sure its just a matter of inclusion to the package... [05:19] ok, the reason is .. jjesse raised this point [05:19] if you remember, there was a discussion about -common [05:19] but that needs a lot of discussion [05:20] ok [05:20] well in my opinion, a server guide has little need of gui tools unless the product has server gui tools [05:21] true [05:30] ubuntu-server has no gui tools and never will [05:31] Burgundavia, its about people whou would like to use say Kubuntu for a server [05:31] right [05:32] but I think we should target our server guide at ubuntu-server === jsgotangco thinks so too [05:32] Burgundavia, true. but, it should not restrict the kubuntu user who wish to install a server application [05:32] that is fine [05:32] they can install by commandline [05:33] i think its best to make the server guide as generic as possible [05:33] yeah, though we may provide instructions about other package manager in the beginning.. [05:33] the most generic you can get is via cli [05:33] maybe we shoudl move the server guide to a top level folder of its own? [05:33] bhuvan, talking about gui package management on in a serverguide is a bad thing [05:34] unless you're RedHat [05:34] yeah! [05:34] hence we talk about aptitude, apt-get, etc. [05:34] but, i've planned to give an introduction about all package manage in the beginning [05:34] that is a bad thing, IMHO [05:34] i'll use apt-get through out the document [05:34] yes [05:35] if you even mention say synaptic [05:35] why do you need to bother the user with talking about synaptic at the start if you use apt-get throughout? [05:35] and the user decides to get it [05:35] he'll be downloading the whole desktop again [05:35] also think this. what if he's installing a server application, say apache on the existing desktop (kubuntu or ubuntu) ? [05:36] he may feel free to use either synaptic/apt-get, its upto him [05:36] so? [05:36] so, introduction about available packages may help [05:36] talking about gui package stuff is a recipe for bad things [05:36] i'm not going to use synaptic/adept though in my document. i'm using apt-get [05:36] and if they know how to install apache, they should already know how to use synaptic [05:37] Burgundavia, i understand [05:37] hence we don't need to talk about it [05:37] i think the main goal here is to make a server guide that is very friendly just like our starter guide [05:37] but friendly meaning its cli-friendly and not complicated [05:37] and friendly means we don't bait and switch === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wezzer [i=wezzer@ZMKDXCVI.dsl.saunalahti.fi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wezzer [i=wezzer@ZMKDXCVI.dsl.saunalahti.fi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob1 [n=rob@pdpc/supporter/student/rob-ubuntu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === HrdwrBoB [n=matt@bob.is.teh.admin.at.vicnet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@n128-227-11-184.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === apokryphos [n=apokryph@70.85.216.98] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sladen [i=paul@starsky.19inch.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mvirkkil [n=mvirkkil@130.233.228.9] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Riddell [i=jr@kde/jriddell] has joined #ubuntu-doc === uniq [n=frode@213.184.199.55] has joined #ubuntu-doc === asw [n=asw@karuna.med.harvard.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tokyovigilante [n=tokyovig@60-234-136-45.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tokyovigilante [n=tokyovig@60-234-136-45.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burgundavia votes for dapper+1 to be called Traumatized [08:36] [08:36] Tenrec [08:38] ? [08:43] Traumatized Tapir? [08:47] ...interesting... Creative Commons doesn't seem to have a simple CC-SA license - only CC-BY-SA or full Public Domain... too bad [08:53] how about Oblivious Ocelet? [08:53] Tanked Terrapin? [08:53] Xenophobic Xenu? [08:53] wtf is a Xenu? [08:54] think I should remove obiviously bad names? [08:54] "Xenu" would be a bad idea - 15 seconds of Googling shows that it's got something to do with Scientology [08:54] Xebu, typo on my part [08:56] Madpilot, you still have that java app floating around/ [08:56] ? [08:56] the one that named GW something funny? [08:57] I think I've got a version of it, yeah [08:57] want to create a "name the next Ubuntu" version? [08:58] indeed [08:58] too bad java is non-free [08:58] could we do a version with js [08:58] ? [08:59] for? [08:59] random fun [08:59] my cellphone uses java more than my computer [09:00] the only java I have installed is the free stuff [09:00] which incidentally doesn't run the only other java I have on my computer, a game I downloaded [09:01] Burgundavia: a pure-JavaScript version might be possible [09:01] its more lucrative to do java on mobile phones now compared to desktop i guess [09:01] but it's made harder by the fact that the Ubuntu names always alliterate === bhuvan [n=ubuntu@b14.gw.maa.collab.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:56] jsgotangco, what sort of policy do we want to have for people joining the LP team but have not generated useful work for us? [09:59] good question [09:59] well we did kick out 1 or 2 people i believe [09:59] and the latest two I have not approved [09:59] oh approval is easy [09:59] deactivating is not [10:00] shall I raise it on the mailing list [10:00] since the team is now tied up with malone, it becomes a bit complicated [10:00] I think it should be a group decision [10:00] soon it'll become tied up with a package and a supermirror [10:00] and wiki team is likely going to be tied to greater privs on the wiki as well [10:01] oh i remember~ === jsgotangco should send the minutes later [10:01] we talked about the lp team during the meeting [10:01] excellnt [10:01] I was too tired to come, sorry [10:01] other people were there like Riddell , jbailey, ogra, etc. [10:01] they suggested that ubuntu-doc members should comprise approved ubuntu-members [10:02] so basically if an ubuntu-member wants to join the doc, it'll be easier [10:02] ah [10:02] so they have to become a member before they can become a member of ubuntu-doc? [10:02] its not really whitelisting, but its really safe to add to commit access and lp for ubuntu-members rather than those who aren't [10:02] basically [10:02] especially with commit privs [10:03] ok, that seems fair [10:03] it needs fleshing out the details though [10:03] but we have a higher chance of better performance with an ubuntu-member rather than not [10:03] (although it does leave out those who aren't into membership) [10:04] yes [10:04] but that is not a big deal I think [10:04] but should they have to produce something for us before they are allowed to join? [10:07] well come to think of it, any person who contributes to doc can easily be a member [10:07] like bhuvan for example [10:08] yes [10:08] so if he's already an ubuntu-member, we can just easily add him to -doc [10:08] and it makes it easier to justify to elmo svn access [10:08] because a.) he's approved [10:09] b.) he's signed the CoC [10:09] but several of the pending members have not producing anything useful for the team that I can see [10:09] we can probably tell them to contribute something first... [10:09] in other words, should applying for membership and being an ubuntu-member be enough to give you membership to ubuntu-doc? [10:10] well ok that's a good question [10:10] how does MOTU do it? [10:10] anyboyd can upload to REVU [10:10] to become a member of MOTU, you need technical board approval [10:11] they are not really a valid example in this case [10:11] but no other team is really big enough yet [10:11] art is too new, marketing doesn't exist, nun is dead [10:11] wiki is too new [10:11] hmm [10:12] i don't want to see our position as unique as with other teams but we do have certain upload privs which needs consideration [10:12] yes [10:12] .. should i've to apply for ubuntu membership ? [10:13] bhuvan, you have enough, IMHO, to apply for ubuntu-membership now [10:13] yes [10:13] and the next CC meeting to 2 days from now [10:13] ok. i'll add my name for membership then [10:13] yeah [10:14] I like the idea of asking people to produce something before they ask for membership to ubuntu-docs [10:15] just as we have been doing up until now [10:16] well yes, it doesn't change anything [10:16] yes, it just codifies what is there [10:16] in case either of us drop off the planet [10:16] imo, membership is just an incentive/reward for contribution === jsgotangco has no idea who is Dmitri Alenitchev [10:23] nor do I [10:24] night === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === tokyovigilante [n=tokyovig@60-234-136-45.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:05] do programs in Universe get bug-reported to Launchpad or Bugzilla.u.c? === silbs [n=jane@217.205.109.249] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.151.4] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=ubuntu@b14.gw.maa.collab.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=ubuntu@b14.gw.maa.collab.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:07] what was the command to build the desktop guide again, left that email at home :( [03:07] dg-C ? [03:08] i meant 'make dg-C' === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:10] hello === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:16] thanks bhuvan [03:16] morning jsgotangco [03:18] morning =) === jsgotangco yawns [03:19] jjesse, ok [03:20] jsgotangco, when're you leaving to seoul ? how long you'll be in seoul ? [03:20] jsgotangco, hi [03:20] just 4 days [03:21] hey Belutz how's things? [03:21] i got flu :( [03:21] Belutz: i pray its not bird flu :P [03:21] jsgotangco, no it's not :) [03:21] heh [03:22] night all [03:22] hmm, the debian conference commitee could give 30 minutes slot [03:22] haha dude i can't fly with that short notice [03:22] ok :) [03:23] Belutz: hey you can speak in behalf of ubuntu anyways [03:23] maybe next time :) [03:23] hmm, i'm not ready yet [03:23] when will that be? [03:23] heh [03:24] after, i'm no longer a newbie :-) [03:36] im going back later [03:36] brb === silbs [n=jane@217.205.109.249] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Leaving"] === enrico_ [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:51] re [05:03] good night === spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke nudges Riddell about http://kubuntu.org/documentation.php === Riddell can't get a response from help.ubuntu.com [07:10] gah [07:11] Riddell, you have to be patient [07:11] ah yes, just very slow [07:11] the stylesheets on e.g. http://help.ubuntu.com/kde/krelease-notes/C/index.html don't really work [07:11] well, they arn't there [07:12] can you update it use those three docs from trunk? [07:12] yes [07:13] Riddell, i used a kde stylesheet for those tho, was it a different one? [07:13] mdke: I think you used the one sean made up, in trunk we're now using the ones from KDE docs [07:15] i used one which was packaged in kdelibs-data [07:16] Riddell, anyhow when I get home I'll look at it === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:58] Riddell, yo? === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:04] mdke: hmm? [10:05] Riddell, can you walk me through what is going down with the -html and -web targets in the Makefile? last time I looked there was just -web [10:06] mdke: -web is for the web, -html is offline html and normal target is offline .bz2 of html [10:06] Riddell, ok so you have changed the stylesheets for -web and added -html? [10:18] yes === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:19] Riddell, ok, and how does -html work? i see it uses meinproc rather than xslproc, and i don't see the stylesheets [10:19] mdke: it uses the default KDE stylesheet [10:19] Riddell, does meinproc just know that automatically? [10:20] mdke: seems to yes [10:20] right [10:20] we'll have to update some of the docs to tell people to install meinproc [10:20] it's not on my system [10:20] it should be in the package build-deps [10:21] Riddell, i don't see that package [10:21] kubuntu-docs [10:21] ah i see [10:21] what I havn't worked out is how i18n works [10:22] ok [10:22] Riddell, fire away [10:22] umm, nothing to fire, I don't know how it works in ubuntu-docs [10:23] Riddell, we make pot file templates from the xml, upload them to rosetta, download the po files, change them back to xml [10:23] i would suggest using the same system for (k)(ed)ubuntu l10n [10:24] when are they uploaded and when are they downloaded? [10:25] and who's going to set this up for dapper? [10:25] Riddell, we upload them after string freeze, and download them before the translation freeze. And I intend to do an update for breezy too [10:25] Riddell, i can do it [10:26] aah [10:26] where do the translations go? into ubuntu-docs? [10:27] Riddell, yes, although jbailey wanted to talk about language-packs. But now he's no longer with us, I'm thinking that won't happen [10:28] I think dholbach will do it [10:29] you just ship the .xml file, doesn't that take a long time to covert to HTML when viewing? [10:29] it will be very difficult I think [10:29] Riddell, in gnome yelp is the viewer, it reads xml directly. although it is a bit sluggish [10:29] brb [10:47] back [11:01] jjesse, around? [11:05] damn you!