[12:45] <paolob> Hi guys! I could connect a thin client to the edubuntu server, and I could log in. However, when I log off (from the client), I can't log in anymore. Any hint?
[03:49] <mhz> hi
[03:49] <mhz> arkan0x: holas
[03:49] <arkan0x> mhz, holas !
[06:09] <highvoltage> ogra: hi there
[09:24] <highvoltage> hi JaneW 
[09:24] <JaneW> hello highvoltage 
[09:24] <ajmitch_> hi JaneW, highvoltage 
[09:24] <JaneW> hi ajmitch_ 
[09:24] <juliux> hi JaneW highvoltage ajmitch_ 
[09:25] <JaneW> hi juliux 
[09:25] <JaneW> heh
[09:25] <highvoltage> hi ajmitch_ 
[09:25] <highvoltage> hi juliux 
[09:25] <highvoltage> :)
[09:30] <Burgundavia> JaneW, greetings
[09:32] <highvoltage> hi burgie
[09:32] <ajmitch_> this channel is full of greetings tonight
[09:33] <Burgundavia> I really should be going to bed. It is midnight here
[09:35] <JaneW> hi Burgundavia 
[09:35] <juliux> hm here it is 9:30 in the morning
[09:35] <JaneW> hi crimsun 
[09:35] <crimsun> hi JaneW 
[09:35] <JaneW> Burgundavia: how's Canada - cold yet?
[09:36] <Burgundavia> we don't get snow where I live
[09:36] <Burgundavia> part of the reason I live here
[09:36] <Burgundavia> Victoria, not Canada in general
[09:37] <Burgundavia> JaneW, what is your involvement with LaptopTesting?
[09:39] <JaneW> Burgundavia: oic
[09:39] <JaneW> Burgundavia: I am not particularly involved at all
[09:39] <ajmitch_> darn, I hoped you could get me another laptop ;)
[09:39] <Burgundavia> JaneW, who at canonical leads that little band of merry men
[09:39] <Burgundavia> ?
[09:39] <ajmitch_> claire, isn't it?
[09:40] <Burgundavia> she did the initial work, I just wondered if she was continuing with the day to day stuff
[09:40] <JaneW> Burgundavia: mjg59
[09:40] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:40] <JaneW> Matthew Garret
[09:40] <Burgundavia> but I thought Matthew didn't work for you guys
[09:41] <ajmitch_> I wouldn't think there'd be much day to day stuff to continue with at the moment
[09:41] <Burgundavia> somewhat
[09:41] <ajmitch_> just the technical side with mjg59 does
[09:41] <ajmitch_> morning \sh 
[09:42] <Burgundavia> I am thinking mostly of the social stuff about getting people involved and keeping them involved
[09:42] <Burgundavia> defining a clear goal, etc.
[09:42] <ajmitch_> I didn't hear much after I got the laptop
[09:42] <ajmitch_> just some reminders on irc to keep the wiki updated
[09:43] <Burgundavia> ya
[09:43] <ajmitch_> I'm out of the team for now though :)
[09:43] <ajmitch_> unless you want me to pull out the old latitude junker
[09:43] <Burgundavia> is there any value is getting it to work?
[09:44] <ajmitch_> no, it was working fine with breezy
[09:44] <ajmitch_> but the latch holding the battery in broke & I'll have to tape/glue it in
[09:44] <Burgundavia> hmm, new Suse 10.1 alpha 3 screenies
[09:45] <Burgundavia> nothing much to write home about
[09:45] <Burgundavia> an odd mix of kde and gnome
[09:46] <Burgundavia> I can see why they are pushing for Tango
[09:46] <ajmitch_> since I'll need it before mid-january & LCA
[09:51] <Burgundavia> well, night all
[02:40] <mhz> hi
[02:40] <mhz> ogra: ping
[02:40] <mhz> ogra: I got a question
[02:40] <ogra> mhz, pong
[02:41] <mhz> There's someone with a DB on linux relate questions (for training)
[02:41] <mhz> Keduca is default in Edubuntu
[02:41] <mhz> and moodle will be
[02:42] <mhz> so, what would you suggest
[02:42] <mhz> either make them work under Keduca or make them availbale for moodle in the future?
[02:44] <ogra> i think keduca will stay for a while, but how hard is it to make it available for both ?#
[02:45] <mhz> don't know much about DB. what should I ask him about? (in order to find out best way)
[02:46] <ogra> all you will need is a script to convert from one to the other format i guess
[02:46] <mhz> ok
[02:47] <mhz> I'll see what Keduca needs
[02:47] <mhz> ro be feeded
[02:47] <mhz> ro = to
[02:48] <mhz> ogra: thx
[02:48] <ogra> welcome :)
[03:03] <juliux> ogra, did you get any e-mails from the essener linuxtage?
[03:05] <ogra> not today, nope
[03:05] <juliux> ogra, no in the past
[03:05] <ogra> yes.. 
[03:06] <juliux> ogra, can you forward it to me? 
[03:06] <juliux> ogra, they think that you are the one who manag the both
[03:06] <ogra> heh
[03:06] <juliux> so the send all e-mails to you and not to me
[03:07] <ogra> address ?
[03:07] <juliux> and in the irc they said to me, why you didn't know it, we send you an e-mail
[03:07] <juliux> juliux@ubuntu-de.org
[03:08] <ogra> forwarded
[03:08] <ogra> i guess they meant the kubuntu mail ...
[03:08] <juliux> ogra, thanks
[03:08] <ogra> i dont have anything else looking official her
[03:08] <ogra> e
[03:08] <juliux> ogra, ok 
[03:16] <mhz> ogra: hmm, I have a doubt. For EdubuntuSoftwareList, I am trying (am now) to list them as a table. The idea is we can easily see: Application Name, Languages we tried it in for both Audio (when applicable) and Menus, Ages group we can use it, Category we can use it (Mat, Chem, Lang, Biology, etc)
[03:17] <mhz> ogra: I never thought i'd say this but i guess Moin is not a good candidate for such a table, or is it?
[03:17] <mhz> :)
[03:17] <ogra> no idea :) you are the wiki specialist 
[03:17] <juliux> hi mhz 
[03:17] <juliux> mhz, we don't will do lightscribe, you need for every cd/dvd 30min
[03:17] <mhz> juliux: hi
[03:17] <ogra> ask JaneW, she has a lot experience with huuge wiki tables :P
[03:18] <mhz> juliux: coool! so freedom will be?
[03:18] <mhz> ogra: oh, good
[03:18] <mhz> JaneW: 
[03:18] <mhz> JaneW: ping
[03:18] <juliux> mhz, printing on the cd/dvd
[03:19] <mhz> juliux: good
[03:19] <juliux> mhz, but there ist no guarantee that it works under linux
[03:19] <mhz> juliux: why?
[03:19] <juliux> mhz, at first we have to find someon who will buy such a printer ;)
[03:19] <ogra> juliux, talk to amu, he uses it under linux afaik
[03:20] <juliux> mhz, don't aks me ask epson
[03:20] <mhz> which printer do you need?
[03:20] <juliux> mhz, i think it will be a epson stylus photo r220
[03:20] <juliux> mhz, it only cost 99
[03:20] <ogra> which reminds me, i need to talk to him about selling edubuntu CDs :)
[03:20] <mhz> is that cheap in Deutschland?
[03:20] <juliux> mhz, yes that is cheap
[03:21] <juliux> ogra, you really want this?
[03:21] <mhz> ogra: he's selling edubuntu cds?
[03:21] <mhz> :)
[03:21] <ogra> juliux, sure, why not ? he has the shop and the equipment to make them professional ...
[03:21] <ogra> i'm not happy at all with self printed B/W covers and self burned unlabeled CDs
[03:22] <mhz> ogra: are they easy-to-access CDs?
[03:22] <juliux> ogra, yes i know
[03:22] <ogra> mhz, whats "easy-to-access" ?
[03:22] <mhz> juliux: selling cds is another biz model. it is not a bad idea, as long as the price you charge is 'easy-to-access'
[03:23] <juliux> ogra, the problem i have with this where is advantage for the community?
[03:23] <ogra> its about 2 (which is about $2.50)
[03:23] <mhz> ogra: IMHO easy to access = reasonable prize someone would be happy to pay for, mainly because he'll get good quality
[03:23] <ogra> juliux, they get CDs 
[03:23] <juliux> ogra, you also can download it
[03:24] <ogra> juliux, we are planning a official vendors page for the edubuntu page ... 
[03:24] <juliux> ogra, i dislike it if there is a person who realise profit with freesoftware
[03:24] <ogra> and as long as you cant get them through shipit, people lkike amu are important for distributing them in a professional way
[03:25] <juliux> ogra, in my opinion there is no advantage for edubuntu
[03:25] <ogra> it was the same with kubuntu, which you couldnt get thrugh shipit
[03:25] <mhz> juliux: Tecnocimiento biz model includes the idea of returning a % of the profits to the Community Memebers (active ones)
[03:25] <ogra> juliux, for the many compynys that ask me for pressed CDs its the best alternative
[03:25] <juliux> ogra, kubuntu is something total differents
[03:26] <ogra> nope, not at all
[03:26] <juliux> ogra, it is, because amu develops on kubuntu
[03:26] <ogra> if we cant ship CDs its our responsibility to make them available somehow ...
[03:26] <ogra> juliux, this doesnt matter
[03:26] <juliux> ogra, i think that is matter
[03:27] <mhz> juliux: oh, so your point is you are against of biz out of work people have not put effort in?
[03:27] <juliux> mhz, no im against biz if there is no backflow to the community
[03:27] <mhz> oh, i see your point
[03:27] <ogra> there is a flowback ...
[03:27] <juliux> mhz, i have no problems that there are kubuntu cds/dvds in amus shop
[03:28] <juliux> ogra, where it is?
[03:28] <juliux> ogra, where is the problem that you burn the cds yourselfe?
[03:28] <ogra> juliux, people with no access to CD writers and with no opportunity to download get Cds
[03:28] <mhz> juliux: but unfortunately, that is Ethics issue. Ethics is not specified in "freedom" manifesto.
[03:28] <juliux> ogra, but you also need an internet access to buy this cds
[03:28] <ogra> juliux, i work 14h a day, whne should i care about shipping CDs ?
[03:29] <juliux> ogra, i didn't said that you should to it
[03:29] <mhz> juliux: hence Tecnocimiento (I lead the small group) will send $% back to community.
[03:29] <zakame> ogra: waah
[03:29] <ogra> juliux, sitting in a shag in africa with modem connection i can order them, but cant download
[03:29] <juliux> hm
[03:29] <ogra> juliux, and thats the majority of edubuntu users
[03:30] <ogra> they have no CD writer, have no fast internet access ...
[03:30] <juliux> anyway i dislike it if there is no backflow to the community, there is some guy who makes money with something he didn't make
[03:30] <ogra> my main target is to get my CDs to the users ... there amu helps a lot
[03:30] <juliux> ogra, of course
[03:31] <mhz> and, in Chile, institutions do prefer professional look over "hand-written" cds
[03:31] <ogra> juliux, he makes about 0.20  per CD for the time he invests...
[03:31] <juliux> ogra, klein vieh macht auch mist
[03:31] <ogra> i dont think he earns *anything* by making the CDs ....
[03:31] <juliux> ogra, if it so its ok
[03:31] <mhz> ogra: however, i still do not have funds to have professional cds printed out nor to order from amu :(
[03:31] <ogra> the money comes from merchandise, not selling CDs
[03:32] <ogra> mhz, we'll have a bunch of pressed CDs in dapper ...
[03:32] <juliux> ogra, if i burn a cd and print it cost not more than one euro!
[03:32] <mhz> ogra: yup, I am pacient (i guess :D )
[03:33] <ogra> juliux, and packing, labelling and goint to the post office is for free ? 
[03:33] <ogra> you invest time ...
[03:33] <mhz> juliux: maybe with the money amu makes from selling he can spend time in contributing to kubuntu ?
[03:34] <ogra> for example :)
[03:34] <juliux> mhz, ogra it is something generally not especially for amu
[03:34] <mhz> hehehe
[03:34] <mhz> well, i dont know
[03:35] <mhz> I think that we should always encourage biz models around freedom of IT access
[03:35] <ogra> juliux, its business ...
[03:36] <juliux> ogra, but there diffrent kinds of business
[03:36] <ogra> juliux, without business models around free software, we wouldnt be here
[03:36] <mhz> juliux: how ever, i do agree with you on the fact that we need sustainable development of it
[03:36] <juliux> ogra, lehmans spend at debian for every debian dvd the sell
[03:37] <ogra> thats fine, but their decision
[03:37] <mhz> so we should also encourage more community backflow of profits
[03:37] <juliux> ogra, and such business is ok for my
[03:37] <ogra> and be sure, for a 10 dvd pack they still earn more than amu
[03:37] <juliux> s/my/me
[03:37] <ogra> even if they give money to debian
[03:37] <ogra> and why should amu give money to canonical  ? 
[03:38] <juliux> ogra, not to canoncial
[03:38] <juliux> ogra, to the foundation
[03:39] <ogra> the foundation ? haha
[03:39] <juliux> ogra, or to the community or something else
[03:39] <juliux> ogra, yes i think so
[03:39] <juliux> ogra, the foundation needs money in the future
[03:39] <juliux> i think
[03:40] <ogra> as long as canonical exists, the foundation wont do much active work i guess ...
[03:40] <ogra> since there is no need to ...
[03:42] <juliux> ogra, it is not my decision who makes edubuntu cds or dvds
[03:42] <ogra> mine neither, they are freely availale ;)
[03:43] <ogra> but i like to know my distributors....
[03:43] <juliux> ogra, i know, but i want to tell my opinion, and yes i knwo that i am a idealist.
[03:43] <ogra> and amu did a huge amount of work for ubuntu/kubuntu already ...
[03:44] <mhz> JaneW: ping
[03:44] <mhz> jsgotangco: hi
[03:44] <jsgotangco> hello
[03:44] <juliux> ogra, yes and he is one of the radical kde/kubuntu people in germany
[03:44] <jsgotangco> mhz: evening m8
[03:44] <juliux> hi jsgotangco 
[03:44] <ogra> juliux, whats wrong with this ? 
[03:44] <mhz> jsgotangco: could you take a look at EdubuntuSoftwareList? 
[03:45] <juliux> ogra, i will tell it to you in essen
[03:45] <jsgotangco> sure
[03:45] <mhz> jsgotangco: I gotta decide what is simpler to admin/contribute
[03:45] <ogra> juliux, there are radicals in gnome as well ... 
[03:45] <jsgotangco> mhz: Active Directory
[03:45] <juliux> ogra, but not in germany
[03:45] <mhz> jsgotangco: either table layout or simple listing
[03:45] <juliux> ogra, and not such radical
[03:45] <ogra> juliux, sure there are
[03:45] <mhz> jsgotangco: ??
[03:45] <juliux> ogra, who?
[03:45] <ogra> even more radical
[03:45] <juliux> ogra, in germany?
[03:45] <ogra> go to guadec :)
[03:45] <juliux> ogra, i was there
[03:46] <ogra> you'll meet germans that are more radical and meet the ones that are less radical ...
[03:46] <juliux> ogra, who?
[03:46] <jsgotangco> radigal germans/
[03:46] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:46] <ogra> or pick a random gnome or kde message at heise and look at the forum :)
[03:46] <juliux> ogra, i was the last years on the fair both of gnome
[03:46] <mhz> juliux: in Chile people call me "Taliban"
[03:46] <juliux> ogra, that are only trolls
[03:47] <ogra> juliux, urban legends have roots, as well as trolls have ....
[03:47] <jsgotangco> mhz: Celestia can be used for Astronomy
[03:47] <mhz> jsgotangco: oh i see, admin/contribute is simple via Active Directory :)
[03:47] <mhz> jsgotangco: ok.
[03:47] <juliux> ogra, the point is that amu made a lot for gnome in germany and everybody said thanks amu thanks amu, and at the next point he said gnome is shit 
[03:47] <ogra> they are only a mirror of the cummunity ...<
[03:47] <jsgotangco> mhz: although i don't really know if its workable in an ltsp environment
[03:47] <ogra> and you have the same trolls on both sides
[03:48] <jsgotangco> (it requires opengl)
[03:48] <mhz> jsgotangco: but my doubt is oriented to Table v/s Listing
[03:48] <ogra> juliux, thats politics ... he wants to build a business around KDE ...
[03:48] <jsgotangco> i like the listing
[03:48] <jsgotangco> mhz: that looks like wicked moin syntax especially on the toc
[03:49] <jsgotangco> and the table
[03:49] <juliux> ogra, and he made it also work for guadec and the foundation said thanks amu, and then hey said no i don't want to make fair both with ubuntu because there are gnome foods
[03:49] <juliux> ogra, the same with the german ubuntu forum
[03:49] <jsgotangco> trouble in paradise?
[03:49] <mhz> jsgotangco: my problem with listing is that so far I'll need to repeat stuff many times
[03:49] <mhz> :(
[03:49] <ogra> jsgotangco, germany != paradise :)
[03:50] <juliux> ogra, amu thinks at first on it selfs and the what is the best for the users
[03:50] <jsgotangco> how cold is 2 deg C?
[03:50] <ogra> juliux, amu wants to build a business arond free software....
[03:50] <juliux> ogra, and this is i the wrong way if you do publicwork for something, i think
[03:51] <juliux> ogra, yes but then i have to make business both and not community boths on fairs
[03:51] <mhz> jsgotangco: cold, very cold but not like antartica
[03:51] <ogra> thats the only way to do it if you want to earny your life with it ... 
[03:51] <juliux> ogra, no there is also an other way
[03:52] <juliux> ogra, you can directly speak with the people you need to make something
[03:52] <ogra> juliux, then you should tell it to the business people who try to make a business around oss
[03:53] <juliux> ogra, this business people didn't need a free community both on a fair, they paid for it
[03:53] <jsgotangco> ogra: do you have edubuntu roadmap for dapper online?
[03:53] <ogra> juliux, do you really think canonical or ubuntu would exiist without marks money ? look at the existing models
[03:53] <ogra> jsgotangco, nope, not yet ...
[03:53] <\sh> juliux: they don't 
[03:53] <juliux> ogra, i find it totaly ok that there is oss business
[03:53] <\sh> juliux: redhat goes to big fairs like cebit...but they send only marketing stuff to people who are going to small fairs in their spare time
[03:53] <ogra> jsgotangco, but the roadmap will only be "breezy +polish polish polish"
[03:54] <juliux> \sh, but they didn't get a free!!! both!
[03:54] <ogra> jsgotangco, there wont change much ...
[03:54] <\sh> juliux: booth...yes they get
[03:54] <juliux> \sh, but not for free!
[03:54] <ogra> juliux, sure
[03:54] <juliux> ogra, where?
[03:54] <ogra> juliux, as long as they come as fedora
[03:54] <juliux> ogra, not in the community area
[03:54] <\sh> juliux: as fedora yes...as redhat no
[03:54] <ogra> but go to the fedora booth, they will promote redhat
[03:55] <\sh> juliux: thats why everbody is doing community distros now
[03:55] <ogra> juliux, and *thats* a unclean business model imho
[03:55] <juliux> ogra, i didn't said that it is ok
[03:55] <jsgotangco> ogra: yeah i understand the polish thing, but we're still having some new software changes right, but not changes that will break the whole build...
[03:56] <\sh> juliux: btw..did "ubuntu deutschland e.v." paid any trademark fees, to use ubuntu?
[03:56] <juliux> but i dislike it if there is somebody who want to make buisness but said it is a free community project
[03:56] <juliux> \sh, we made a agreement
[03:56] <ogra> jsgotangco, i'd like to avoid bigger SW changes if possible
[03:57] <juliux> \sh, we can use it for free but we don't have any rights
[03:57] <\sh> juliux: see..and others have to pay for the trademark usage :) ... amu is also not using ubuntu on any product he is doing...only kubuntu..and he's using ubuntu only with permission
[03:57] <juliux> \sh, he use the ubuntu logo 
[03:57] <\sh> juliux: thats licensing..no rights but using it...but this is OT
[03:57] <ogra> juliux, and ?
[03:57] <juliux> \sh, you want to see a picture of it?
[03:57] <\sh> juliux: no...not on cups e.g.
[03:57] <juliux> \sh, as a sticker
[03:57] <\sh> juliux: well..the domain is mine :)
[03:58] <mhz> juliux: we call the guys who take advantage from community efforts "Articulators"
[03:58] <juliux> \sh, i have on my laptop
[03:58] <jsgotangco> ogra: i'm trying to find on lp and wiki on big dapper features, but most i saw are polish, polish, polish, with the exception of a new kernel, xorg 7, new de, etc
[03:58] <\sh> juliux: I know what he's selling...because he is using my domains :)
[03:58] <ogra> jsgotangco, exactly ... edubuntus polish will happen mostly in ltsp
[03:58] <\sh> juliux: and there is no need for a war between the distros...
[03:59] <juliux> \sh, what do you mean with this?
[03:59] <mhz> juliux: i guess we can 'educate' people in terms of Community Ethics. I believe backflow of some $% from incomes is a good idea, so we can all continue contributing
[03:59] <juliux> http://www.linuxshop.de/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=123
[03:59] <\sh> juliux: if there is a problem...let's have a drink with amu and talk about it...he's a nice guy believe me
[03:59] <juliux> \sh, i dislike amu very much
[03:59] <\sh> mhz: he is doing that
[03:59] <jsgotangco> hmmm?
[03:59] <ogra> juliux, things like the trademark shit, lkeagl issues etc made me run away from debian ... id really appreciate if ubuntu wouldnt become debian in the future ...
[04:00] <mhz> \sh: good
[04:00] <ogra> juliux, but the road the ubuntu e.V. goes is exactly the debian leagal road
[04:00] <juliux> ogra, i have no problem with amus work
[04:00] <juliux> ogra, what does you mean?
[04:00] <mhz> \sh: however, I understadn juliux feeling because in Chile I have seen MANY people just using the community for his own benefit
[04:00] <\sh> juliux: believe me when I tell you, that amu is not doing anything against canonical or ubuntu or mark in general...he always asked about permission...he even asked maddog to do his business without paying linux trademark fees
[04:00] <mhz> and taking all credits
[04:00] <ogra> wanting to sue people for misusage of the logo etc
[04:01] <juliux> shit my english is to bad to say what i want
[04:01] <ogra> imho it was a wrong decision from canonical to give the trademar authority away
[04:01] <juliux> ogra, i didn't get it
[04:01] <mhz> juliux: shoot in deutsch
[04:01] <\sh> mhz: in germany we have many so called linux iso shops etc. and they don't give anything back to the community....amu is doing this...read riddells blog...about a strange german kubuntu fan with unlimited bandwidth...I think it's amu...and I didn't ask him...but he is one with a big pipe
[04:01] <juliux> ogra, we are only allowed to use it
[04:02] <ogra> oh, that sounded different when you were upset about the berlin booth
[04:02] <juliux> ogra, what does you mean?
[04:02] <jsgotangco> \sh: does not give back?
[04:03] <\sh> ogra: canonical didn't give anything away
[04:03] <\sh> jsgotangco: amu is giving back...others not
[04:03] <mhz> \sh: i am happy amu is spreading this, i am not complaining, I am just trying to understand juliux feeling and compare it to Chilean reality. I am also trying to build a biz model here.
[04:03] <ogra> \sh, thats how i understood the announcement ... but seems i was wrong
[04:04] <juliux> ogra, the problem with the berlin booth was that at this point there was some people in germany who said ubuntu isn't a community project so the shouldn't get a both at the community area at fairs
[04:04] <jsgotangco> well amu also has gnoppix to begin with...
[04:04] <\sh> ogra: canonical aggreed of the usage of the name and "logo"? i think...but they didn't give away any other things...canonical is allowed to revert the agreement at any time whenever they want without any questions...only in written form ,)
[04:04] <ogra> \sh, since i saw that kubuntu wants to join the booth in essen, i guess we'll see amu
[04:04] <juliux> ogra, that isn't true
[04:04] <ogra> juliux, what ? 
[04:04] <\sh> ogra: I hope so :)
[04:05] <juliux> ogra, amu doesn't come to essen
[04:05] <ogra> juliux, sure ? 
[04:05] <ogra> he lives around the corner 
[04:05] <juliux> ogra, he said it to me so at the linuxworldexpo last week
[04:05] <mhz> ogra: what "canonical give away" are you all talking about?
[04:05] <mhz> :)
[04:05] <\sh> mhz: trademark rights
[04:05] <\sh> mhz: but they didn't give away any trademark rights
[04:06] <jsgotangco> they still own the name and logo for all i know
[04:06] <mhz> \sh: when?
[04:07] <juliux> ogra, amu don't want to have both with kubuntu and ubuntu
[04:08] <ogra> juliux, the mail i just forwarede to you asks for jioning the ubuntu/edubuntu/kubuntu booths
[04:08] <juliux> ogra, but this are people form a local lug
[04:08] <ogra> which is a wonderful idea imho
[04:08] <mhz> jsgotangco: eureka! maybe if I list it by Application, and then add subheadings (Subejcts, Ages, Languages tried, etc) I'll end up writing less ?
[04:09] <jsgotangco> mhz: it sure looks like a good idea to me
[04:09] <juliux> ogra, i have ask several kubuntu people but nobody want come to essen
[04:09] <mhz> ogra: yes! xBuntu communties should all be one huge thing
[04:09] <\sh> mhz: http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/files/agreement.pdf
[04:09] <\sh> juliux: i'm there :)
[04:10] <mhz> \sh: oh, thx. I can read now
[04:10] <\sh> juliux: that's why I said...i don't want an ubuntu or a kubuntu shirt :=
[04:10] <juliux> ogra, \sh i also said amu that i think there are many problems if we have at one fair an ubuntu both and a kubuntu both, but amu only think on his own project and on it own profit
[04:11] <juliux> \sh, why?
[04:11] <juliux> \sh, the problem is that ubuntu is the only distro who make differens in the names
[04:11] <ogra> juliux, i'd very much appreciate a joined booth ...
[04:11] <ogra> and i'll care that we'll have one at fosdem ...
[04:11] <mhz> yup, it is nonse to have diff booths
[04:11] <lucasvo> ogra: in which format do I have to enter vertrefresh and horzsync?
[04:11] <ogra> (if i can go)
[04:12] <juliux> ogra, i also want to have on big both
[04:12] <mhz> actually, AFAIK, the BASE is exaxctly the same for all buntu flavours
[04:12] <juliux> ogra, what is fosdem?
[04:12] <ogra> lucasvo, i guess XX-YY
[04:12] <juliux> ogra, that you have to said the kubuntu guys not me
[04:13] <mhz> the booth should be just one, maybe with colored (or only logo based) areas
[04:13] <ogra> juliux, http://www.fosdem.org/2006
[04:13] <juliux> lucasvo, i can past you my xorg.conf
[04:13] <juliux> ogra, thxs
[04:13] <\sh> juliux: where is ubuntu doing differences? the names are only flavours...the base is the same..and the base is the most important thing...i don't care about gnome or kde or xfce or whatever anymore...I'm using what I want..and both have their rights...and amu and riddell are the two people who created kubuntu
[04:13] <ogra> juliux, i'll talk to riddell and amu
[04:13] <mhz> lucasvo: you can also read /etc/X11/xrog.conf
[04:13] <mhz> lucasvo: you'll find examples there
[04:14] <juliux> \sh, on the names,  for example there is no gdebian or kdebian there is only debian, why we can do that with ubuntu?
[04:14] <lucasvo> mhz: so it is the same way, ok thanks
[04:14] <juliux> ogra, thanks
[04:14] <\sh> juliux: this is marketing...and this is good...
[04:14] <juliux> \sh, i think that it isn't good for the users
[04:14] <ogra> juliux, because they are completely different in this regard ? 
[04:15] <juliux> ogra, sorry that i didn't understand
[04:15] <ogra> juliux, so you would prefer a 10 CD set coming with all flavous instead of a single CD coming with one desktop flavour ? 
[04:15] <\sh> juliux: of course..that's why we have edubuntu and will get xubuntu in future...every user has their own need...and he wants by default his desktop and his favorite colour..so give the user his free will...OSS is the freedom to choose
[04:16] <juliux> ogra, i want to have on cd that install the base system and and extra cd where is kde and gnome on it
[04:16] <ogra> *shudder*
[04:16] <juliux> \sh, but for this you didn't need extra distro names
[04:16] <juliux> ogra, that is more better than have 10 or more ubuntu versions
[04:16] <\sh> juliux: and this is not what ubuntu/kubuntu wants...because it's too expensive and the user is going to opensuse or fedora, because they have it there
[04:17] <ogra> juliux, mark aims to have hundrets of flavors at some point
[04:17] <juliux> ogra, i know
[04:17] <mhz> juliux: I am still a huge Debian fan. However, the good point of Ubuntu is that it provides a debian-like environement with a desktop on top and tech support that can also be paid if needed..
[04:17] <ogra> thats one of the targets of launchpad ...
[04:17] <juliux> ogra, i think that this isn't very good for the community
[04:17] <ogra> you'll be able to build your own flavour on the fly
[04:17] <\sh> juliux: think about that...chocolate is chocolate...but u have different flavours...and one girl likes nougat, the other girl likes zartbitter...do u think removing those flavours and delivering only "chocolate" is better for the user?
[04:18] <ogra> juliux, so canonicals business model is bad ? 
[04:18] <juliux> ogra, no
[04:18] <juliux> ogra, from the technical side it is very great
[04:18] <ogra> note that we will only earn money through a proprietary product (launchpad)
[04:18] <mhz> juliux: so for an newbie or quick install, ANY Ubuntu flavour is ok because it gives you the chance to either install Server or Desktop pre-setup
[04:18] <juliux> ogra, but from the community aspect isn't very good
[04:19] <juliux> \sh, for choclate you don't need any support
[04:19] <mhz> \sh: of course not, I want all the girls
[04:19] <mhz> :)
[04:19] <ogra> its perfect if you can just click together your iso without having deep technical knowledge iho
[04:19] <\sh> juliux: of course...u never went to the chocolate museum in cologne :)
[04:19] <juliux> mhz, for newbies it isn't good because there a to much irc channels and to much forums
[04:20] <juliux> \sh, i went
[04:20] <juliux> \sh, i was there
[04:20] <\sh> juliux: and thats why we had a spec about it
[04:21] <juliux> \sh, the best words i can find for this situation is: 2 herzen schlagen ach in meiner brust
[04:21] <mhz> juliux: hmmm, right. Maybe we should modify the way we want to help newbies ge ttheir info. However, any one can start at #ubuntu (i did) 
[04:21] <juliux> \sh, i find the technical process very great but i see the problems the you have to give very good support
[04:22] <juliux> \sh, and i see the splitting in the community
[04:23] <juliux> if my english teacher could see that i write so much english at one day....
[04:23] <mhz> juliux: yup, too many flavours is a dangerous edge. On the other hand, it may be good for many others. And we also have to 'teach' people about differences without getting lost
[04:23] <\sh> juliux: http://verein.ubuntu-de.org/files/agreement.pdf
[04:23] <\sh> argl
[04:23] <\sh> juliux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExampleContent
[04:23] <juliux> \sh, yes? what is with that?
[04:24] <mhz> juliux: see? you are doing better every day
[04:24] <juliux> mhz,  i think it is very great but then you have to have one big community and one big forum and not for every iso one forum
[04:24] <mhz> juliux: and you are not speaking about "where do yo come from? / what does your mom do? " stuff
[04:24] <\sh> juliux: we will setup all flavours with different example content...there are matching content stuff, but as well completly separated stuff
[04:25] <juliux> \sh, i know
[04:25] <mhz> juliux: yup, indeed. The forum should be just one.
[04:25] <juliux> \sh, but i think that it will be very heavy to give a newbie good support
[04:26] <\sh> mhz: for this I like the idea of forums.gentoo.org ... all languages in one forum...
[04:26] <ogra> juliux, the target audience is totally different among these flavours ... would you like to answer edubuntu questions in #ubuntu ?
[04:26] <juliux> ogra, no
[04:26] <mhz> yup, I used Gentoo for a year
[04:26] <ogra> you see
[04:26] <mhz> ogra: I guess he means about Forums, esp.
[04:27] <juliux> ogra, but there will be a problem if we have one ubuntu channel at freenode, one at gimp.net, one at euirc
[04:27] <lucasvo> ogra: but if someone comes here and asks about rm/man or whatever he can also just ask in #ubuntu
[04:27] <juliux> lucasvo, right
[04:27] <lucasvo> so basic things should stay together and then some sort of subforum for edubuntu and kubuntu and ubuntu
[04:27] <mhz> lucasvo: we do that in al lchannels, dont we?
[04:28] <lucasvo> mhz: what do you mean, ask in every channel or ?
[04:28] <ogra> lucasvo, i send people for basic stuff to #ubuntu
[04:28] <lucasvo> ogra: so the same should be in forum
[04:28] <juliux> ogra, i will make a example where i see a very special problem: if there is one who has a problem with cups he ask in #ubuntu and than he has a problem with kmail, what should you do then? anser it in #ubuntu or sent him to #kubuntu?
[04:29] <ogra> so thats something a forums guy must do
[04:29] <mhz> lucasvo: when i 1st started using ubuntu, I tried #ubuntu. When I decided to use Kubuntu flavour I still used #ubuntu and people suggested #kubuntu
[04:29] <juliux> mhz, but this isn't very good for newbies
[04:29] <ogra> juliux, as you liek ..
[04:29] <ogra> like*
[04:29] <mhz> juliux: why not?
[04:29] <juliux> ogra, yes but it is a problem
[04:29] <ogra> nope
[04:30] <mhz> juliux: many newbies find IRC stressing :)
[04:30] <ogra> you make it a problem
[04:30] <lucasvo> I was so impressed of gnome so I stayed in ubuntu, it is really amazing how they grew, I first saw it 6 years ago...
[04:30] <mhz> juliux: actually, I even get lost in #ubuntu :) 
[04:30] <juliux> ogra, in the irc it is a very littleproblem but what is in reallief ?
[04:30] <ogra> juliux, you can answer your kmail question in both channels
[04:30] <juliux> s/reallief/reallife
[04:32] <ogra> juliux, ??
[04:32] <lucasvo> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuLtsConfParams < why is this locked, is there any other place where the syntax is described? 
[04:32] <juliux> ogra, ??
[04:32] <ogra> where is the problem in RL ? 
[04:33] <lucasvo> ogra: you don't have irc :D
[04:33] <juliux> ogra, if you have to both one ubuntu and one kubnut
[04:33] <ogra> why would you ? 
[04:33] <juliux> i don't want but it will come so
[04:34] <lucasvo> ogra: because you prefer reading emails in kubuntu but rather code with ubuntu...
[04:34] <juliux> that you have different irc channels different forums different developer meetings different both on fairs
[04:34] <ogra> lucasvo, where is the difference ? they only have different desktops ... how does it matter which gui you use for coding ? 
[04:35] <juliux> ogra, there are people who have with this problems
[04:35] <ogra> juliux, i have no clue at all about KDE, the last time i really used it was v1.2 
[04:35] <ogra> why should i give support for something i dont know
[04:35] <lucasvo> I don't like qt duallicense... it is crap
[04:35] <juliux> ogra, the best example is that we have in germany 2 ubuntu forums 2 kubuntu forums
[04:35] <juliux> ogra, you should give support for that
[04:36] <ogra> so join the efforts, thats neither ubuntus fault nor the fault of the different flavours
[04:36] <juliux> ogra, but i think that all supporters should be at one point not a two or more
[04:36] <ogra> juliux, so join the efforts ... talk to the other people
[04:36] <lucasvo> ogra: any process on ldm with edubuntu theme?
[04:36] <lucasvo> juliux: yes.
[04:36] <juliux> ogra, i have talk about this wiht very much people
[04:37] <ogra> lucasvo, mdz sent me back to the coding pit, he wants some changes before it can get into dapper
[04:37] <juliux> ogra, i also have talk about this with mark
[04:37] <ogra> juliux, so why are there still two forums for every flavour then ?=
[04:37] <juliux> ogra, because there are people who want to make there own thing
[04:37] <ogra> lucasvo, but in any case it will be in
[04:38] <lucasvo> best example is if sb. explains some basic stuff in kubuntu forum, it isn't available in edubuntu forum, so if I really want to get sure nobody already posted some similar problem I would have to search 3 forums
[04:38] <juliux> ogra, and this is a problem for the whol community
[04:38] <lucasvo> ogra: can I have a preview? like the one you gave me, or is it still the same?
[04:38] <juliux> ogra, there is so much double work
[04:38] <ogra> juliux, where is the problem in joining them ?
[04:38] <juliux> ogra, don't ask me
[04:38] <juliux> ogra, at first there was only on forum
[04:38] <ogra> lucasvo, its still *nearly* the same... some marginal changes to save memory are in
[04:39] <juliux> ogra, the problem is that you have to much versions of *ubuntu
[04:39] <ogra> juliux, just join them and do your work there ...
[04:39] <juliux> ogra, i have not the time to do the work on 4 forums
[04:39] <ogra> nope, the problem are people who dont want to work together
[04:39] <ogra> thats not related at all to the amount of flavours
[04:39] <juliux> ogra,  that is the second problem
[04:40] <juliux> ogra, it is also a problem of the amount of flavours
[04:40] <ogra> so go ahead, join them, work with them and we'll have only one forum
[04:40] <ogra> itsvery easy
[04:40] <juliux> ogra, that isn't so easy who you said it
[04:41] <ogra> why its all about making the right compromises ...
[04:41] <lucasvo> ogra: there isn't almost 0 compromises in merging 2 forums...
[04:41] <juliux> ogra, yes exactly that i tried witht the both on fairs
[04:41] <lucasvo> maybe what we are doing is also doublework.... :D
[04:41] <ogra> lucasvo, we managed to get the backports people joining motu ...
[04:42] <juliux> ogra, why you think i am here?
[04:42] <lucasvo> who knows maybe there is same discussion on #kubuntu
[04:42] <ogra> how should the forum stuff be differentz
[04:43] <juliux> ogra,  i want to have at least ubuntu and edubuntu and xubuntu at one both
[04:43] <lucasvo> ogra: what is motu?
[04:43] <juliux> ogra, and i try it also with the kubntu guys
[04:43] <ogra> lucasvo, the people caring for universe
[04:44] <juliux> lucasvo, master of the universe
[04:44] <ogra> juliux, \sh is here 
[04:44] <juliux> ogra,  in know
[04:44] <juliux> ogra, and \sh will be in essen
[04:45] <ogra> exactly
[04:45] <juliux> ogra, i ask more than one time the kubuntu-de guys what is for essen but no one wants, and amu wants to make is own thing
[04:46] <lucasvo> hm, I somehow can't figure out the correct values for my screen
[04:46] <lucasvo>         X_HORZSYNC         = "31-62"
[04:46] <lucasvo>         X_VERTREFRESH      = "55-90"
[04:46] <lucasvo> gives me more than 1024x768
[04:48] <ogra> lucasvo, attach your screen to the server, run sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg, get the values from the xorg.conf file on the server, attach the old screen and run the commnd again to have it reverted to the old values
[04:48] <ogra> (ro use a liveCD) 
[04:48] <lucasvo> ogra: I can't attach it so server, it is in some rack
[04:48] <ogra> s/ro/or/
[04:48] <lucasvo> ogra: dpkg--reconfigure doesn't work at all, as I said it is a Xorg autoconf bug...
[04:48] <ogra> then to any machine with a CDROM and use a live CD to get the right values
[04:49] <ogra> huh ? 
[04:49] <ogra> sure that works ...
[04:49] <ogra> did you file a bug ? 
[04:49] <lucasvo> number  [Bug 17232] 
[04:49] <lucasvo> ^^
[04:50] <lucasvo> I think one should disable ntp on ltsp client
[04:50] <lucasvo> because most people won't give direct internet access to clients directly anyway
[04:50] <ogra> just chroot and uninstall it
[04:50] <ogra> it will be gone in dapper anyway
[04:51] <lucasvo> ogra: good
[04:51] <lucasvo> this is what I wanted to say, remove it in dapper :D
[04:52] <ogra> as nearly all services ...
[04:52] <lucasvo> good
[04:52] <ogra> we'll only keep device and sound related stuff ...
[04:52] <ogra> everything else will be dropped
[04:52] <lucasvo> cool
[04:54] <vmarks> I just want to boot etherboot clients.
[04:55] <ogra> i havent started working on etherboot yet, but it will work in dapper
[04:55] <vmarks> six months away?
[04:56] <ogra> april
[04:57] <lucasvo> as my birthday present :D
[04:58] <ogra> *g*
[04:59] <vmarks> dang.
[04:59] <vmarks> I need earlier.
[04:59] <ogra> vmarks, i'll have info how to tweak breezy earlier
[04:59] <ogra> as sson as i have time to work on it
[05:02] <vmarks> thanks.
[05:02] <vmarks> I'm anxious for it- I have a teacher whose class has the clients ready.
[05:03] <ogra> did you get a nbi file in your tftproot after running ltsp-update-kernels with mknbi installed ? 
[05:05] <vmarks> likely. let me look
[05:05] <ogra>  /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/nbi.img-$version
[05:06] <vzl> there is nbi.img and nbi.img-2.6.129-386
[05:06] <ogra> thats the etherboot image ...
[05:08] <vzl> yet the client is still trying and failing on pxelinux.0
[05:08] <ogra> vzl, vmarks, could one of you try to edit /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/pxelinux.cfg/default ?
[05:08] <vzl> :)
[05:09] <vzl> it says vmlinux ro initrd=initrd.img.
[05:09] <ogra> and change the initrd line to point to the ethrboot image
[05:09] <vzl> ok
[05:10] <vzl> and stop and start something to make it take effect?
[05:10] <ogra> nope, just boot a client ....
[05:11] <vzl> and, will that change clients booting off pxe?
[05:11] <ogra> i sadly have to go now to care for some RL stuff ...
[05:11] <ogra> no idea, as i said, i havent played with etherboot at all ...
[05:11] <vzl> client still failing on pxelinux.0 as an invalid image.
[05:11] <ogra> according to mdz it should just work
[05:12] <ogra> if you are still around in 1-2h i'll have more time
[05:12] <vzl> I'll be here.
[05:12] <ogra> fine
[05:49] <juliux> ogra, http://www.linuxtag.org/2006/de/home/aktuelles/newsitem/article/call-for-papers-fur-den-12-linuxtag-vom-3-bis-6-mai-2006-gestartet-virtualisierung-lizenzmanage.html 
[05:50] <juliux> ogra, do you want to make one or two talks?
[05:51] <mhz_wikiing> ogra: juliux what other fields could be included here http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSoftwareList  ?
[05:52] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, i will read it later, my girlfriend has a problem with matlap
[05:52] <mhz_wikiing> (BTW, still under wiki syntax work)
[05:52] <mhz_wikiing> she uses MatLAb?
[05:53] <mhz_wikiing> juliux: maybe she could help us with cross curricular usage of Edubuntu!
[06:30] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, she has to use matlab
[06:36] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, is kde new default desktop for edubuntu?
[06:36] <vincenzio> I hope not.
[06:36] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, what for we need khelpcenter?
[06:37] <mhz_wikiing> juliux: so far, the applications that were chosen belong to KDE
[06:37] <mhz_wikiing> (most of them)
[06:37] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, i see in this list of software only kde programs
[06:38] <mhz_wikiing> yup
[06:38] <mhz_wikiing> but gpaint
[06:38] <mhz_wikiing> :)
[06:38] <mhz_wikiing> and gompris and tuxpaint
[06:38] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, boh not to much please
[06:38] <mhz_wikiing> yup
[06:38] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, have you asked in the gnome channels for gnome education software?
[06:39] <mhz_wikiing> nope
[06:39] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, pls do that
[06:39] <mhz_wikiing> I was not part of the choosing applications
[06:39] <mhz_wikiing> i will
[06:39] <mhz_wikiing> once I can finish the listing and translating them :)
[06:39] <mhz_wikiing> remember I am preparing an edubunt leaflet
[06:46] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, http://www.gnomefiles.org/subcategory.php?sub_cat_id=49 very much gnome education software
[06:54] <mhz_wikiing> juliux: cool. I'll take a loot at them. Or maybe, you could wiki them on same EdubuntuSoftwareList at the end with a new section like GnomeApplicationsNotIncluded
[06:56] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, hm
[06:57] <mhz_wikiing> juliux: as a matter of fact, I use some other apps. not included by default
[06:57] <mhz_wikiing> such as ghemical and ChildsPlay
[06:57] <mhz_wikiing> amon other
[07:37] <mhz_wikiing> juliux: url already added
[07:37] <mhz_wikiing> thx
[07:37] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, np
[07:38] <ogra> juliux, i dont think i want to talk about patents :)
[07:38] <mhz_wikiing> juliux: so you think those fields are ok?
[07:39] <juliux> ogra, but you talk about edubuntu or?
[07:39] <ogra> sure
[07:39] <juliux> mhz_wikiing, i will take a look at the wiki page in a few minutes
[07:39] <ogra> but the link you pasted above talks bout patents
[07:39] <juliux> at the moment i try to build gnome bluetooth control remote
[08:16] <mhz_wikiing> ogra: i'll be in the council meeting today (afaik, 3 more hours)
[08:16] <mhz_wikiing> JaneW: ping
[08:17] <mhz_wikiing> JaneW: how would you suggest we deal with edubuntu translation efforts?
[08:17] <ogra> i dont think she's around
[08:17] <mhz_wikiing> JaneW: much of the Edubuntu docs are in the wiki.
[08:18] <mhz_wikiing> oh
[08:18] <mhz_wikiing> ok
[08:18] <mhz_wikiing> thx for saving me the effort :D
[08:21] <mhz_wikiing> ogra: would you prefer EdubuntuEnglishPage/ClVersion  EdubuntuEnglishPage/DeVersion etc?
[08:22] <ogra> hmm
[08:22] <mhz_wikiing> or each LoCo team should have its own wiki /data ?
[08:22] <ogra> cant we do that more transparent
[08:22] <ogra>  ?
[08:22] <mhz_wikiing> sure, any ideas?
[08:23] <mhz_wikiing> BTW, EdubuntuEnglishPage is anything in default language :)
[08:23] <ogra> not really
[08:23] <mhz_wikiing> hehehe
[08:23] <mhz_wikiing> me neither, so far
[08:23] <mhz_wikiing> :D
[08:24] <mhz_wikiing> ogra: well, i'll keep on wikiing. So far, the Edubuntu.org main page it is translated in http://www.tecnocimiento.cl/EdubuntuChile
[08:25] <mhz_wikiing> and i guess, while we have no cleart 'policy' i'd betta keep CL pages in there, right?
[08:25] <ogra> but it looks good :)
[08:25] <mhz_wikiing> ogra: cool it says" M$ rocks!"
[08:25] <ogra> lol
[08:25] <ogra> i doubt that
[08:25] <mhz_wikiing> hehehehe
[08:27] <mhz_wikiing> so, as there are some key info about edubuntu, hosted in wiki.edubuntu.org and I need some of those translated into spanish  (CL) for our EdubuntuTour, i'll keep the translated ones in tecnocimiento. I hope, if Council aproves my participation, I can host www.edubuntu.cl (so far, I have only booked it)
[08:28] <ogra> fine with me
[08:28] <mhz_wikiing> ok
[08:28] <mhz_wikiing> you are Mr. Edubuntu :D
[08:28] <ogra> but only the technical part ...
[08:28] <ogra> JaneW is our manager ;)
[08:29] <mhz_wikiing> sure, but when she's not around , you are Second Man on board
[08:29] <mhz_wikiing> ogra: could someone with access place a link to that CL page for spanish people?
[08:30] <mhz_wikiing> (link from edubuntu.org to that url)
[08:30] <ogra> you mean on the website ? 
[08:30] <ogra> thats highvoltage territory
[08:31] <mhz_wikiing> ogra: oh, i think we should modify our manifesto a bit: Edubuntu will always be free of charge
[08:32] <mhz_wikiing> we could clarify: ...from Canonical's side.
[08:32] <ogra> or just make clear that edubuntu is 100% ubuntu
[08:33] <mhz_wikiing> hehehehe
[08:34] <mhz_wikiing> I agree that Edubuntu is 100% Ubuntu base packages. However, I still believe Edubuntu is much more than a 'distro'.Afaik, we do much more
[08:34] <mhz_wikiing> and if we also provide "contents" in a near future, then we'll definately be more.
[08:34] <ogra> thats true
[08:35] <mhz_wikiing> so i like the idea of a EdubuntuManifesto
[08:35] <mhz_wikiing> .oO(but I'd do some editing to emphazise that we are based on Ubuntu distro and what our commitments with education are)
[08:43] <mhz_wikiing> ogra: what or how do we vote over the packages we should/could include in Dapper?
[08:49] <ogra> mhz_wikiing, i dont think we'll change much
[08:49] <ogra> send a proposal to the ML
[08:50] <ajmitch_> ogra: what do you need to get into main/universe in the coming weeks?
[08:50] <mhz_wikiing> ok, ogra. So does that mean we have no "procedure" to decide why an app. is included or not, over the others?
[08:52] <mhz_wikiing> ajmitch_: sorry for the many moin notifications on EdubuntuSoftwareList. Actually, it's not much i am editing. it's been more syntax related. I still gotta add some info regarding the testings we've made. Once i finish, I'll translate that page.
[08:54] <ajmitch_> no need to apologise
[08:55] <mhz_wikiing> ajmitch_: thx, but i guess that after 20 notifications, you wanna kill me :)
[08:55] <ajmitch_> hah
[08:55] <ajmitch_> no
[08:55] <mhz_wikiing> cool then
[08:56] <mhz_wikiing> ogra: but ok, let's say I send a proposal. It'd be fair to understand your point of view. I mean, I can suggest to eliminate 20 applications and include 25 new ones. What would that mean in technical terms?
[09:08] <ogra> mhz_wikiing, regulary the apps are 
[09:08] <ogra> selected at the edubuntu summit
[09:08] <mhz_wikiing> ?
[09:08] <mhz_wikiing> when is next?
[09:08] <ogra> dapper+1
[09:08] <mhz_wikiing> oh and that means?
[09:12] <lucasvo> http://www.gnomefiles.org/subcategory.php?sub_cat_id=49 < one should include some of these apps into edubuntu...
[09:13] <lucasvo> btw, is there any classroom software which can turn off screen on all clients, lock screen, or start mplayer to show a stream of master PC?
[09:14] <lucasvo> that would be good for classrooms
[09:16] <ogra> lucasvo, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/ feel free to enhance it :)
[09:16] <ogra> mhz, that means we wont change much for dapper
[09:17] <lucasvo> ogra: good
[09:17] <lucasvo> ogra: but I neither know C nor glade
[09:18] <mhz> ogra: yup, ok, I see it. when is it gonna take place the edubuntu summit and where?
[09:19] <mhz> lucasvo: i guess that what you ask is difficult
[09:19] <lucasvo> mhz: why? in what way?
[09:20] <mhz> lucasvo: and esp. because ogra  and I _dont_know_who_else is actually taking all responsibility in current development areas.
[09:20] <lucasvo> mhz: aha, wow, you alone?
[09:20] <lucasvo> great job!
[09:20] <mhz> lucasvo: also, doing that will mean we will actually have phisical control over the machine.
[09:20] <mhz> lucasvo: thx but NOT me
[09:21] <mhz> lucasvo: and esp. because ogra  and I_dont_know_who_else is actually taking all responsibility in current development areas.
[09:21] <mhz> I ment "i dont know who else" :D
[09:21] <lucasvo> mhz: a teacher wants more or less physical control over the machine
[09:21] <mhz> yup
[09:21] <mhz> i agree
[09:22] <mhz> if you mean "killing X", that is possible
[09:22] <lucasvo> mhz: of course the linux freaks know how to open a new terminal with ctr-alt-f2 but this is not normal
[09:22] <lucasvo> mhz: no, open an app which makes screen blank and doesn't react to mouse
[09:22] <mhz> if you mean control over what they see or dont... a bit more complex, unless yo mean "filtering" applications.
[09:23] <mhz> lucasvo: well, that is possible via SSH :D
[09:23] <lucasvo> I just mean the blackscreen function, for e.g. a teacher explains on the blackboard sth. -> he doesn't want kids to look at pc -> he wants to disable pc for several seconds
[09:23] <lucasvo> mhz: yes
[09:23] <mhz> lucasvo: how would you exactly picture your idea?
[09:24] <mhz> lucasvo: ahhhh
[09:25] <mhz> lucasvo: the easier already-possible-to-do-it  way I see here is
[09:25] <lucasvo> mhz: I don't know how to realize it, because, if you have more than one classroom using ltsp with same server you can't just blank all the clients
[09:26] <mhz> yup, that was gonna be my point
[09:26] <mhz> :)
[09:26] <lucasvo> mhz: the problem is already-possible-to-do-it is not easy
[09:26] <mhz> hehehe
[09:26] <mhz> yup
[09:26] <lucasvo> is there a way how to determine on which client sb. is logged in?
[09:26] <mhz> you can kill X but it will affect all
[09:26] <mhz> arp
[09:27] <lucasvo> this is stupid, because it will even affect teacher
[09:27] <lucasvo> arp?
[09:27] <mhz> arp will tell you which IP's are connected to the server
[09:27] <mhz> so, if you run arp
[09:27] <lucasvo> mhz: but not which user is connected on which pc?
[09:27] <mhz> and you previously identify each machine ip/position
[09:28] <mhz> you may kill ip connection
[09:28] <mhz> who, who is a comand that tells you who is logged in
[09:28] <lucasvo> mhz: but then it will hang forever
[09:28] <mhz> lucasvo: yup
[09:29] <lucasvo> mhz: but how do you want to determine which IP which user?
[09:29] <mhz> easier way: educate your students to turn monitor off (they consume less energy, therefore are more env. friendly)
[09:30] <mhz> hmmm, no ltsp boxes at the moment.
[09:30] <lucasvo> mhz: you can simply make a panel applet which starts a programm which blanks the screen
[09:31] <lucasvo> is ldm running on the client or on the server?
[09:31] <lucasvo> how can I turn off ltsp client ? 
[09:31] <mhz> ogra: 'who' shows ttyX users are using. For Edubuntu LTSP, each tty is a remote box as well?
[09:31] <lucasvo> ^ as normal user it isn't possible is it?
[09:31] <lucasvo> mhz: no
[09:32] <lucasvo> mhz: I only have local users
[09:32] <mhz> lucasvo: normal user? nope
[09:32] <mhz> lucasvo: then, if LTSP users are local users, then each TTY is a users
[09:32] <mhz> lucasvo: then, if LTSP users are local users, then each TTY is a user
[09:33] <lucasvo> mhz: my sister isn't on the who output but she is logged in over ltsp
[09:33] <lucasvo> mhz: no ltsp user is not local
[09:33] <mhz> then LTSP users are not considered local users logged in
[09:33] <lucasvo> no
[09:33] <mhz> ok
[09:33] <mhz> lucasvo: but let's say we have a classroom with 10 clients
[09:34] <lucasvo> yes
[09:34] <mhz> each client has a # = ip
[09:34] <mhz> 'arp'
[09:34] <mhz> will tell us what # are logged in, right?
[09:34] <lucasvo> right
[09:34] <lucasvo> mhz: but as well non_# who are logged in
[09:34] <mhz> Each student uses a personal 'user'
[09:35] <mhz> I am user 'mhz' at box 192.168.0.19
[09:35] <lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/436449 < some sample output
[09:35] <lucasvo> johanna is the ltsp user
[09:35] <mhz> so, tomorrow, i can be mhz at .5 or mhz at .11
[09:36] <lucasvo> yes
[09:36] <lucasvo> ltsp on ubuntu is running through ssh?
[09:37] <mhz> yup
[09:38] <mhz> wow she's doing stuff
[09:38] <mhz> lucasvo, then maybe you could 'grep -i johanna' and then kill her :)
[09:38] <mhz> all at once
[09:39] <lucasvo> mhz: but this is forever and not only for 30s
[09:39] <mhz> hmm right
[09:39] <lucasvo> mhz: we need to pause not to stop :D
[09:40] <mhz> lucasvo: easy way: Educate Johanna to turn on/off monitor upon teachers request
[09:40] <lucasvo> mhz: yes
[09:40] <mhz> (plus we'll be more env. friendly)
[09:40] <lucasvo> mhz: easy way works not with my friends
[09:40] <lucasvo> :D
[09:40] <mhz> LOl
[09:40] <lucasvo> and not with me :D
[09:40] <lucasvo> because I will just open a new console and make ssh to my server :D
[09:41] <mhz> then, we'd betta kill 'them'
[09:41] <lucasvo> even with no X
[09:41] <lucasvo> yes
[09:41] <lucasvo> but reboot takes long time and one would always loose data
[09:41] <mhz> we cant' work miracles!
[09:41] <mhz> :D
[09:41] <lucasvo> it isn't a miracle
[09:42] <lucasvo> ogra: is there any way how to set a environment variable at login? with ip of client?
[09:42] <mhz> lucasvo: does XDMCP let you 'pause' user actions?
[09:42] <lucasvo> xdmcp probably yes
[09:43] <mhz> lucasvo: maybe then, we should offer both ways
[09:43] <ogra> lucasvo, look at the source of student-control-anel
[09:43] <mhz> pause (xdmcp), no pause (edubunt ltsp)
[09:43] <lucasvo> ogra_dinner: dinnert, the new german verb, dem english trend gemaess ? :D
[09:44] <ogra_dinner> jupp
[09:56] <lucasvo> ogra_dinner: how is one supposed to turn of ltsp client/
[10:19] <ogra> lucasvo, with the power button ?
[10:30] <lucasvo> ogra: so no software poweroff :(
[10:31] <ogra> nope
[10:32] <ogra> having admin tols for stuff like ltsp is always a security violation... i wont include such functionallity this early in the development ...
[10:32] <ogra> if you know a safe way to implement it, feel free, patches are welcome ;)
[10:58] <juliux> where is mhz??