[12:29] <Kyral> LaserJock: any of your MOTU-Science packages get through REVU yet?
[12:41] <Kyral> hey is gnome-desktop-environment just a metapack?
[12:43] <schweeb> yea, most likely
[12:44] <Kyral> k, because this guy on the forums is wanting to remove Firefox
[12:44] <schweeb> if it doesn't say in the package name, only real way is to either install it, or look at the source I would think
[12:44] <Kyral> and its taking a load of metapacks out with it
[12:44] <schweeb> gnome-desktop-env is a universe package, so it's not necessarily important
[12:44] <schweeb> (I don't have it installed)
[12:44] <Kyral> Yea, neither do I
[12:45] <Kyral> heck I don't have gnome-core installed either
[12:45] <schweeb> I really don't see a need to remove firefox either, but *shrug*
[12:45] <Kyral> He wants to
[12:45] <Kyral> and Linux is all about choices
[12:45] <schweeb> guess so
[01:09] <LaserJock> Kyral: no, I got one vote before a new upstream release and my count got reset ;-)
[01:09] <Kyral> lol
[01:09] <Kyral> I bet after the merge is done
[01:09] <LaserJock> Kyral: yeah, that's what I'm thinking
[01:53] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[01:53] <bmonty> hey LaserJock
[01:54] <bmonty> how is everything today in MOTU land?
[01:54] <bmonty> ...and why do you guys keep responding to this Rod Lovett guy on the devel ML?
[02:01] <ajmitch> bmonty: because people enjoy pain
[02:01] <bmonty> hehe...he has troll written all over his messages
[02:02] <bmonty> they should just blacklist his address and be done with it
[02:05] <ajmitch> aha, nice reply to his message from ivan :)
[02:17] <zakame> hi
[02:18] <crimsun> 'lo
[02:53] <sistpoty> oops... don't look at the merge page atm ;)
[02:54] <ajmitch> why not? :)
[02:55] <ajmitch> mmm, nice traceback
[02:55] <ajmitch> sistpoty broke the db? :)
[02:56] <sistpoty> kind of... ;)
[02:56] <sistpoty> should be fine now
[02:56] <crimsun> aww I miss all the good boogs ;)
[02:56] <LaserJock> sistpoty: what is the stdc++ column for on the revu MoM pages?
[02:57] <sistpoty> these are packages that need to be renamed/rebuilt for libstdc++ reconfiguration
[02:57] <crimsun> if they're affected by the libstdc++ allocator change
[02:58] <crimsun> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/013025.html
[02:58] <sistpoty> exactly... is this list complete? or does it draw in depending/other packages as well?
[02:59] <crimsun> it should be complete
[03:00] <sistpoty> ok, then I'll update the database with this info in a few secs... this time there should be no downtime ;)
[03:01] <sistpoty> *crossing fingers*
[03:02] <sistpoty> update done
[03:02] <LaserJock> so there is about 13 in the done pile that will need to be redone
[03:03] <sistpoty> they need to be rebuilt at least
[03:04] <LaserJock> I guess that won't be to bad. It's really nice to have a list like that
[03:04] <sistpoty> siretart told me it would be nice to have it this afternoon... well here it is
[03:04] <sistpoty> ;)
[03:05] <sistpoty> he told me this afternoon i meant ;)
[03:08] <sistpoty> the nasty thing is that for the current list, you'd need to file a merge bug to move it from unassigned to accepted. maybe I'll adjust the email-parser to also allow other bug-titles to move these packages. But not tonight ;)
[03:11] <LaserJock> ok, I aske once about awk as a build dependency but I can't remember if it was a no-no or if it was ok?
[03:11] <LaserJock> asked I mean
[03:13] <sistpoty> awk is required, which means it's a no-no, unless you need a specific version
[03:14] <LaserJock> so I think that I was told to file a bug report with debian about it rather than fix it in the merge (to minimize the delta)
[03:15] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure what to say.  Just "build dependency awk is not required"?
[03:16] <sistpoty> yeah, something like that would be good... eventually you might add a patch as well ;)
[03:16] <LaserJock> k, thanx
[03:17] <sistpoty> but it's ok, if you fix it in the merge, as long as you file a bug report. you can still request a sync later, once debian also incorporated the fix
[03:22] <xerxas> good night
[03:22] <StrikeForce> bbh
[03:22] <StrikeForce> vggyyy y7kk7\
[03:23] <sistpoty> StrikeForce: don't fall asleep on your keyboard ;)
[03:27] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I still am not quite catching this awk thing. I removed awk from the build dep and everything seems to build fine but there isn't a mention of awk anywhere. So why was it a build dep in the first place?
[03:28] <sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe in somewhere in a script?
[03:28] <sistpoty> LaserJock: what package are you referring to?
[03:28] <LaserJock> tex-guy
[03:29] <Kyral> well thats a pain
[03:29] <Kyral> I lost one of my onboard SATA connectors
[03:29] <LaserJock> ok, aclocal.m4 and configure use awk
[03:29] <LaserJock> Kyral: that sucks
[03:29] <ajmitch> 'lost'?
[03:29] <Kyral> yah
[03:29] <Kyral> it came off
[03:29] <Kyral> literally
[03:30] <Kyral> well, its still attached, but disattached enough that it was no longer working
[03:38] <Kyral> Just another thing in my computer's screwed up history
[03:49] <Kyral> Guys I need a solution
[03:49] <Kyral> could someone using a LiveCD, make a Linux partition
[03:50] <LaserJock> sistpoty: so is it ok to take awk out of the build deps ?
[03:50] <Kyral> jump into it
[03:50] <Kyral> and somehow install the system FROM the LiveCD?
[03:50] <ajmitch> Kyral: UbuntuExpress
[03:51] <ajmitch> see the specs, it's planned for dapper
[03:51] <Kyral> Is it out yet?
[03:51] <ajmitch> there is preliminary work done on it
[03:51] <Kyral> is there any current method
[03:51] <ajmitch> yes
[03:51] <ajmitch> not sure how well it works
[03:51] <Kyral> do tell
[03:51] <ajmitch> impilinux has some, and the guadalinex guys also
[03:51] <Kyral> anything from the LiveCD?
[03:52] <ajmitch> well it's all meant to be used from the live cd
[03:52] <Kyral> well this guy fubared his MBR
[03:52] <Kyral> before getting Ubuntu on it
[03:52] <ajmitch> and?
[03:52] <Kyral> he can't restore it
[03:52] <ajmitch> simple to fix
[03:52] <Kyral> running install-grub should work
[03:53] <ajmitch> so should installing the mbr package & using the mbr contained within
[03:53] <ajmitch> to get windows back
[03:53] <Kyral> sudo apt-get install mbr?
[03:53] <ajmitch> have a look
[03:53] <sistpoty> LaserJock: if that's your only change, I'd prefer a sync instead of removing awk (because you don't need to care afterwards)
[03:54] <ajmitch> there's also ms-sys
[03:54] <Kyral> But install-grub would work?
[03:54] <LaserJock> sistpoty: there are some other build-dep changes as well
[03:54] <ajmitch> it'd just overwrite it
[03:54] <sistpoty> LaserJock: then it's up to you ;)
[03:54] <Kyral> the MBR doesn't work right now
[03:54] <Kyral> somehow the XP one died
[03:55] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I just don't understand how it would work to remove awk. Shouldn't it dep on something?
[03:56] <sistpoty> LaserJock: since awk is "required" it will always be installed on the buildd. same for things in build-essential, like gcc
[03:56] <LaserJock> sistpoty: I guess this is a stupid question but how does it know it's required?
[03:57] <sistpoty> LaserJock: look at the priority field ;)
[03:58] <sistpoty> LaserJock: awk is a virtual package which depends on mawk or gawk... mawk has priority required
[04:00] <LaserJock> sistpoty: aww, I see
[04:09] <Kyral> hey mitch, that ms-sys thing works right?
[04:12] <ajmitch> how would I know?
[04:13] <Kyral> lol
[04:13] <ajmitch> I just did apt-cache search
[04:13] <Kyral> oh well
[04:13] <Kyral> his MBR wasn't working before
[04:13] <Kyral> so it couldn't hurt
[04:17] <sistpoty> I'm off to bed... gn8
[04:17] <ajmitch> night sistpoty
[04:31] <Kyral> about how much RAM od you need to load the LiveCD into RAM?
[04:33] <Kyral> or can you hot swap the LiveCD out if you need to use the drive
[04:33] <crimsun> Kyral: you need at least 256 MB RAM
[04:33] <Kyral> oh?
[04:33] <crimsun> you can load it with 128, but it'll be a bit disastrous
[04:33] <Kyral> but 512 is enough?
[04:33] <crimsun> 512 is plenty
[04:34] <Kyral> I've been helping this guy who accidently nuked his MBR
[04:34] <Kyral> and he only has one CD drive
[04:34] <crimsun> I have some 256 MB machines that run 5.10/live just fine
[04:34] <Kyral> so for the toram option 256 is good?
[04:35] <crimsun> the more the better up to a certain point unless you customise the kernel
[04:37] <Kyral> just hit toram at the prompt right?
[04:38] <crimsun> I'm not even familiar with that option...
[04:38] <Kyral> It loads the LiveCD into RAM so the CD Drive is freed up
[04:39] <crimsun> hmm, I need to try that.
[04:41] <crimsun> cool, sistpoty merged hugs98
[04:41] <ajmitch> Kyral: why do you need to swap out the live cd?
[04:41] <crimsun> I can look forward to tomorrow afternoon's lecture
[04:41] <Kyral> Because this guy only has one CD Drive
[04:41] <Kyral> and his Install CD is corrupt
[04:41] <Kyral> and his MBR his shot
[04:41] <Kyral> and he needs to burn a new copy of the Install CD :P
[04:46] <Kyral> Yah something went REALLY wrong
[04:58] <LaserJock> can somebody download the debian source for gpib ?
[04:58] <LaserJock> and can I get somebody to ask elmo to sync xchat-systray?
[04:59] <Kyral> and imview-doc
[05:04] <crimsun> later.
[05:05] <LaserJock> nvm about the gpib stuff, it looks like MoM mangled it
[05:13] <Kyral> I like seth_k's quit msg
[05:43] <LaserJock> if you reinstall your system does your gpg key get messed up?
[05:47] <zerokarmaleft> LaserJock: you'll want to backup .gnupg or export your keys
[05:47] <LaserJock> zerokarmaleft: even if I didn't wipe out /home ?
[05:47] <zerokarmaleft> then you should be fine
[05:48] <LaserJock> hmm, I seem to be having a problem in thunderbird
[05:49] <LaserJock> when I look at an email that I signed I get "gpg: BAD signature"
[06:35] <siggen> Hi ..
[06:37] <siggen> I was hoping to become an ubuntu developer. I was also merely wondering about the steps invloved.
[06:41] <LaserJock> siggen: I would look at http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/processes/newmember and wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo
[06:45] <Kyral> I hate cold showers....*shiver*
[06:47] <siggen> .. :/
[06:47] <ajmitch> siggen: the first steps are generally packaging new software or fixing existing packages
[06:47] <ajmitch> and we've got plenty to fix :)
[06:54] <StevenK> ajmitch: I suspect siggen was asking how to get involved? I'm interested in getting involved too.
[06:55] <ajmitch> yep
[06:55] <ajmitch> for example, one of our main tasks at the moment is merging changes that we made in breezy with changes in debian
[06:55] <ajmitch> we try & keep the changes as small as possible, but it's still a few hundred packages
[06:56] <ajmitch> you're a DD, right?
[06:56] <StevenK> How about new upstream versions for dapper? I got sick of Amarok 1.3.1 being in Breezy and Dapper and so backported 1.3.6 to Breezy, but it would be even more trivial to push it to Dapper.
[06:56] <StevenK> ajmitch: Right.
[06:57] <ajmitch> yes, we're doing new upstream versions where appropriate
[06:57] <ajmitch> amarok is done by the kubuntu team
[06:58] <ajmitch> we don't have many DDs in the MOTU team, sadly
[06:58] <StevenK> ajmitch: Order me around, I'll do stuff. :-)
[06:59] <ajmitch> you want to do merges? http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new is a small list :)
[06:59] <ajmitch> 473 unassigned
[06:59] <StevenK> ajmitch: Be gentle, this will be my first one.
[06:59] <ajmitch> you're not new to packaging though :)
[07:00] <StevenK> Nope.
[07:00] <StevenK> Lemee start by making a dapper pbuilder.
[07:00] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge has the steps in detail
[07:01] <ajmitch> people are using a script to file the malone bugs for the merges
[07:01] <ajmitch> something we really want to do for dapper is get changes back into debian where possible
[07:01] <StevenK> By NMU'ing or by filing bugs?
[07:01] <ajmitch> suggestions are welcome for how to get this done with minimal flames
[07:02] <StevenK> :-P
[07:02] <ajmitch> since I'm about the only MOTU who's a DD currently, I'd hate to try & NMU the universe
[07:02] <lifeless> heh
[07:02] <lifeless> that would -hurt-
[07:02] <ajmitch> I'd probably get death threats or something :)
[07:03] <StevenK> "I'm preparing to NMU ... the entire of Debian."
[07:03] <Kyral> StevenK: Duplicate your Breezy one and upgrade it to Dapper
[07:03] <StevenK> That assumes I have a Breezy one.
[07:03] <StevenK> (Which I do. :-)
[07:04] <Kyral> hehe
[07:04] <Kyral> its not like its hard :P
[07:04] <ajmitch> more australians.. :)
[07:04] <Lathiat> heh
[07:04] <ajmitch> hello wjb
[07:04] <wjb> hello
[07:04] <StevenK> Yes, we're invading.
[07:05] <wjb> g'day, rather
[07:05] <ajmitch> I thought we were doing that to you?
[07:05] <StevenK> Shush.
[07:05] <ajmitch> 1/2 a million kiwis in .au already :)
[07:06] <StevenK> ajmitch: It's not like it matters to the rest of the world - most of them consider .nz to a state of .au anyway. :-P
[07:06] <StevenK> Er, to be a
[07:07] <crimsun> Has anyone chatted with Scott Ritchie lately?
[07:07] <ajmitch> like the LCA organisers
[07:07] <StevenK> ajmitch: *nod*
[07:07] <crimsun> (I'm wondering what the status of wine 0.9 is, particularly if we can sync from Sid)
[07:08] <ajmitch> reminds me that I should try my credit card on the LCA page again
[07:08] <StevenK> ajmitch: Surely we don't need to merge in linux-kernel-di-{i386,powerpc}-2.6?
[07:08] <ajmitch> no, we certainly don't
[07:09] <ajmitch> some packages should be removed & blacklisted
[07:10] <StevenK> Gnome should also be killed from that list.
[07:10] <StevenK> That reminds me. I really need to decide if I'm going to LCA '06
[07:10] <ajmitch> might as well
[07:10] <StevenK> Heh.
[07:10] <ajmitch> it's probably just as cheap as flying to perth
[07:11] <StevenK> Cheaper.
[07:11] <ajmitch> apart from taxes
[07:11] <ajmitch> I just told mine that I'm going
[07:11] <ajmitch> as it's only about 10 minutes from here
[07:14] <StevenK> Lala.
[07:14] <ajmitch> pbuilder still upgrading?
[07:15] <ajmitch> not bad
[07:15] <Kyral> Night all
[07:15] <Lathiat> wow
[07:15] <Lathiat> took me like
[07:15] <Lathiat> 30 mins+
[07:15] <ajmitch> night Kyral
[07:15] <ajmitch> it'll take me a bit longer than that
[07:15] <StevenK> Hrm.
[07:16] <StevenK> Apparently, changes were persistant, but /etc/issue has gone back to breezy.
[07:16] <StevenK> Maybe I needed both --save options.
[07:23] <ajmitch> ok, paid up for LCA
[07:23] <ajmitch> now I can get back to packaging
[07:26] <ajmitch> why did I take on debian maintenance of a php package?
[07:26] <StevenK> Muahahaha
[07:27] <ajmitch> especially one that has pending security fixes
[07:27] <crimsun> because you love pain?
[07:27] <ajmitch> obviously
[07:29] <StevenK> Er, curses the BoM. :-)
[07:32] <StevenK> Right. One dapper pbuilder base tarball. For some reason it happens to be 320Mb.
[07:34] <ajmitch> that's fairly large
[07:34] <StevenK> Compared to Breezy, which is 70Mb, it's massive.
[07:35] <Lathiat>  /var/cache/apt/archives not cleaned or something?
[07:36] <StevenK> Just about to do that.
[07:38] <StevenK> 173Mb. Much better.
[07:39] <ajmitch> hm, looks like amarok 1.3.6 is in dapper now
[07:39] <StevenK> Whee!
[07:39] <ajmitch> as of yesterday
[07:39] <ajmitch> hey viviersf
[07:39] <viviersf> morning
[07:39] <viviersf> how you ?
[07:39] <StevenK> Hrm. packages.u.c hasn't been updated yet.
[07:40] <ajmitch> I'm good
[07:42] <StevenK> 73Mb. All better.
[07:43] <StevenK> So, does someone want to give me a rundown, or thrown me at the dummy's guide to merging?
[07:43] <StevenK> s/\(throw\)n/\1/
[08:02] <dholbach> good morning
[08:02] <crimsun> re daniel
[08:02] <dholbach> hey daniel :)
[08:02] <dholbach> how are you?
[08:02] <ajmitch> hey dholbach
[08:03] <dholbach> hey andrew
[08:03] <crimsun> dholbach: not bad, yourself?
[08:03] <dholbach> i'm waking up, but i'm fine :)
[08:03] <crimsun> rockin'
[08:22] <StevenK> Which is ... interesting.
[08:49] <zakame> 'lo
[08:49] <dholbach> hi zakame :)
[08:49] <zakame> ei dholbach :)
[08:50] <zakame> I'm reading up on LWP now, working on (hopefully) a set of cli tools to interact with Malone
[09:01] <freeflying> crimsun: ping
[09:01] <crimsun> freeflying: pong
[09:01] <freeflying> crimsun: zhcon can't support utf8
[09:03] <Treenaks> freeflying: so?
[09:04] <freeflying> Treenaks: cce can
[09:04] <Treenaks> freeflying: gnome-terminal works fine
[09:04] <Treenaks> xterm too
[09:04] <Treenaks> urxvt as well, or so I heard
[09:05] <freeflying> Treenaks: these can not work under console
[09:05] <Treenaks> freeflying: my console runs in unicode mode anyway
[09:06] <crimsun> freeflying: what seems to be the issue? Does the Debian version work perfectly, whereas Ubuntu's doesn't?
[09:06] <freeflying> crimsun: zhcon will not develop
[09:07] <crimsun> meaning it's unmaintained, or...?
[09:07] <freeflying> crimsun: the author of zhcon will not work on it
[09:08] <crimsun> ok, so it's unmaintained. Is this issue present in Debian's package, too?
[09:10] <freeflying> crimsun: same as ubuntu
[09:15] <crimsun> freeflying: I'm not sure what this has to do with cee.
[09:15] <crimsun> cce, rather
[09:16] <freeflying> crimsun: with patch ,cce can work well under utf8
[09:18] <crimsun> right, but cce isn't in Dapper
[09:23] <freeflying> crimsun: cce in debian dosen't support utf8
[09:24] <crimsun> freeflying: there's no cce source in Dapper at all
[09:24] <crimsun> freeflying: I'm all for applying a patch that will make it work, but it's moot if the source doesn't even exist in the archive
[09:25] <freeflying> crimsun: may it be sync from ddebian
[09:25] <crimsun> freeflying: it doesn't exist in Debian, either, except in oldstable
[09:26] <crimsun> freeflying: moreover, that version in oldstable is even older than the version that is in warty/hoary/breezy
[09:27] <freeflying> crimsun: it exsit in breezy ,how can it be included in dapper?
[09:27] <crimsun> freeflying: that's more likely an issue that the Tech Board can address
[09:41] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[09:41] <crimsun> re \sh
[09:47] <shawarma> Hi guys!
[09:48] <shawarma> I have a Makefile that includes a bunch of dependency files and a target that creates these dependency files.. I would like to be able to run the clean target without generating all these dependency files... How can I do that?
[09:49] <shawarma> I guess you could say that what I actually want is to NOT include these dependency files if I'm just running the clean target... Is that even possible?
[09:50] <shawarma> Never mind. I just remembered the name of the make irc channel (#devtools). I'll ask there instead.
[09:58] <\sh> moins
[10:04] <siretart> morning!
[10:06] <ajmitch> morning siretart!
[10:06] <\sh> hey siretart
[10:15] <ajmitch> only ~1000 more packages to upgrade to get this box up to dapper :)
[10:15] <dholbach> ROCK :)
[10:15] <ajmitch> then the real fun can start
[10:15] <\sh> ajmitch: aehm
[10:15] <\sh> ajmitch: debtags will segfault right now
[10:15] <ajmitch> \sh: no surprise
[10:15] <siretart> writing makefiles for embedded operating systems is NOT fun :/
[10:15] <ajmitch> but I don't have it installed :)
[10:17] <\sh> sistpoty: u rock :)
[10:17] <sivang> hi all
[10:17] <siretart> oh yes, he does!
[10:19] <ajmitch> what does he rock for today?
[10:20] <jsgotangco> hiya
[10:21] <ajmitch> hi
[10:21] <jsgotangco> how cold is 2deg C?
[10:21] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: almost freezing
[10:21] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: (0C = freezing)
[10:22] <jsgotangco> gyahh
[10:22] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: [F]  = [C]   9/5 + 32
[10:23] <jsgotangco> oh my i hope it still doesnt snow
[10:23] <ajmitch> :)
[10:24] <Treenaks> jsgotangco: what's wrong with snow? )
[10:24] <\sh> ajmitch: he inserted a column for stdc++ in revu mom tool :=
[10:24] <ajmitch> I feel like joining in ubuntu development with the MOTUs
[10:24] <ajmitch> \sh: ah that
[10:24] <ajmitch> \sh: I saw when he broke it earlier :)
[10:24] <jsgotangco> Treenaks, i'm a tropical person don't really like snow (last experience was bad)
[10:38] <StevenK> And I'm confused - I was looking to merge in xcruise, which REVU MoM said it needed to be, but xcruise 1.0.6-1ubuntu1 is in dapper already ....
[10:41] <ajmitch> because the list on REVU is automatically generated
[10:41] <ajmitch> & the person who did xcruise didn't file the bug with the exact required title, I think
[10:41] <StevenK> Right.
[10:42] <StevenK> Then I looked at sawfish and got myself neatly tied up in a knot trying to figure out what to do about rep-gtk, so now I'm back to looking for a easy one.
[10:42] <ajmitch> aha :)
[10:42] <StevenK> Hah. openoffice.org.
[10:42] <StevenK> Yeah, let's merge that. :-P
[10:42] <ajmitch> most of the zope ones can be ignored, since they're nearly all 'package orphaned in debian'
[10:43] <ajmitch> sure, why not? :)
[10:43] <StevenK> Hurray! I found one!
[10:43] <StevenK> offlineimap looks pretty simple.
[10:44] <StevenK> ajmitch: Feel like holding my hand? :-)
[10:45] <ajmitch> just go for it :)
[10:45] <ajmitch> it has a nice small patch
[10:45] <ajmitch> nothing dropped
[10:46] <ajmitch> review the patch, I can see 1 patch hunk that shouldn't be applied
[10:46] <ajmitch> 2 now, both are just for the version number
[10:48] <StevenK> You're reading the ubuntu patch?
[10:48] <ajmitch> the merged debdiff
[10:48] <ajmitch> which is generally the one that matters
[10:49] <ajmitch> btw I recommend getting the motu-tools branch from http://tiber.tauware.de/~shermann/motu-tools/ with bzr
[10:49] <ajmitch> & using it for filing the bugs in malone
[10:50] <lucas> ajmitch: we should discuss the naming of "tools for MOTUs" packages
[10:50] <lucas> I started working on my own set of tools, which is more about dealing with packages lists
[10:50] <ajmitch> yes, I saw that
[10:51] <lucas> currently it is motutools without "-"
[10:51] <ajmitch> StevenK: you can use it like:
[10:51] <ajmitch>  ./newmerge.py --new nautilus-python
[10:56] <\sh> uh oh...TV station is doing some recordings here
[10:56] <ajmitch> fun
[10:56] <\sh> colleague of mine was spreading ubuntu cds all over my desk
[10:56] <sivang> fun
[10:57] <sivang> \sh: seems you have an interesting workplace :)
[10:57] <Treenaks> \sh: you did some "hug day" things as well? :P
[10:57] <ajmitch> well I'm going to go & sleep
[10:58] <ajmitch> night all
[10:58] <Treenaks> ajmitch: night
[11:02] <StevenK> Wheee.
[11:13] <\sh> Treenaks: "hug day things as well?"
[11:13] <Treenaks> \sh: ask dholbach
[11:15] <\sh> Treenaks: I will do the new cxx trans and some other merges :)
[11:18] <bmgz> Annoying Magick::Image.read() problem with rmagick-ruby package (Ruby ImageMagick Lib) anyone encountered this?
[11:19] <bmgz> The first 8 characters of the filename are ignored?
[11:20] <bmgz> so I have to Magick::Image.read("xxxxxxxxmyfile.jpg")...??
[11:22] <bmgz> any1?
[11:47] <viviersf> ive had just about enough of grub
[11:49] <dredg> but grub tastes like happy
[12:09] <raphink> grub \o/
[12:18] <pef> what's the policy about packages having non available entry in Suggest/Recommends ?
[12:18] <pef> should I delete the entry and make a new revision ?
[12:31] <bmgz> anyone know where to find a _working_ rmagick-ruby package?
[12:32] <dholbach> bmgz: if it used to work, you could try reading the changelog
[12:33] <bmgz> never used to work..
[12:33] <dholbach> hmm, upstream cvs? upstream bugzilla?
[12:34] <bmgz> naaah a bug report was posted over a year ago..
[12:34] <bmgz> obviously not important enough
[12:39] <bmgz> I suppose I'll have to dith the rubyonrails effort, I don't have time for bugs..
[12:50] <shawarma> When you guys want to package a new package, how do you get started? Do you usually do it manually, use dh_make or copy off of some similar package?
[12:52] <shawarma> or do you maybe have your own private template?
[01:02] <dredg> usually i dh_make it and edit the output
[01:04] <dredg> but more recently i've had to package about 20 perl modules for work and dh-make-perl is my new friend
[01:05] <shawarma> Ok.
[01:06] <shawarma> I used to use dh_make, too, but I spent soo much time removing stuff, so I started copying off of others, which so far seems like a good way to go..
[01:06] <dredg> i don't think it really matters as long as it doesn't suck :)
[01:12] <shawarma> dredg: Nor do I, I was really just looking for some tips from the more experienced people here.
[01:17] <dholbach> slomo, lathiat: new gnome-user-share :)
[01:17] <slomo> dholbach: *sigh* i'll never finish maths :P /me updates it
[01:17] <dholbach> :)
[01:20] <slomo> dholbach: oh no, we need avahi 0.6 first
[01:20] <Lathiat> before what?
[01:20] <Lathiat> apart from everything ;)
[01:20] <dholbach> new g-user-share
[01:20] <slomo> Lathiat: new gnome-user-share
[01:21] <Lathiat> ah
[01:21] <Lathiat> was it updated to avahi .6 api?
[01:21] <slomo> yes
[01:21] <Lathiat> cool
[01:21] <Lathiat> 0.6 or 0.7 ?
[01:21] <Lathiat> i think g-u-s was 0.6
[01:21] <Lathiat> like di da new version after the first avahi supporting version come out?
[01:22] <slomo> gnome-user-share 0.9 needs avahi >= 0.6
[01:23] <Lathiat> ah ok
[01:23] <Lathiat> cool
[01:24] <slomo> Lathiat: btw, what are the remaining issues stopping avahi to get into main?
[01:24] <Lathiat> slomo: i have no idea
[01:24] <Lathiat> i've been tryign to fidn out whats blocking the zeroconf spec among other things
[01:24] <Lathiat> no one seems to know
[01:24] <Lathiat> all is aw one the approvaer had some 'technical issues' with it
[01:24] <Lathiat> as for the main incl report for avahi im not sure
[01:25] <slomo> hmm... so ask pitti what the problems with avahi itself are
[01:48] <StevenK> Seems kinda wrong preparing a merge with an @d.o address ...
[02:13] <StrikeForce> if there is a new upstream version do I revert back to 0.1 in the numbering scheme?
[02:17] <dholbach> a new upstream version, debian does not have yet?
[02:19] <StrikeForce> dholbach, yeah debian doesn't have rufus
[02:19] <dholbach> then it's -0ubuntu1
[02:19] <StrikeForce> dholbach, ok thanks
[02:19] <zakame> hi all
[02:20] <StrikeForce> hi zakame
[02:20] <StrikeForce> can someoen point me to where I can learn how to setup mime files?
[02:20] <zakame> hi StrikeForce
[02:20] <StrikeForce> in the packages
[02:20] <StrikeForce> so that bittorrent can be associated with rufus?
[02:26] <zakame> hi pef
[02:30] <StrikeForce> is anyone else having dependancy issues with debhelper?
[02:40] <StrikeForce> what filebrowser do we use?
[02:43] <pef> hey zakame  :)
[02:49] <zakame> ei pef :D
[03:05] <tseng_> nice, debhelper is uninstallable
[03:07] <StrikeForce> tseng, yeah
[03:07] <StrikeForce> I thought it might be just me
[03:07] <zakame> in the latest dapper?
[03:07] <StrikeForce> zakame, thats what I was asking earlier
[03:09] <StrikeForce> due to dependancy issues
[03:09] <zakame> gaah
[03:09] <StrikeForce> Depends: po-debconf but it is not installable
[03:11] <StrikeForce> on a side note
[03:11] <StrikeForce> I have a .desktop file installed
[03:11] <StrikeForce> and I haven't made a direct link to the icon but just listed it there and obviously installed it into the right directory
[03:11] <StrikeForce> how do I make the desktop file find the icon without referencing it directly
[03:15] <_pef> StrikeForce: just put the icon name I think
[03:16] <StrikeForce> yeah I've done that however it still doesn't find it?
[03:16] <_pef> kmail.desktop uses icon=kmail
[03:21] <StrikeForce> I've just adjusted it so I'll wait and see
[03:21] <StrikeForce> I thought I had done it
[03:35] <zakame> is python2.1 and 2.2 to be dropped in dapper?
[03:38] <ogra> 2.3 hopefully too :)
[03:39] <tseng_> did debian do the 2.4 transition?
[03:39] <ogra> sadly not completely ...
[03:39] <ogra> looks like we need to kepp it for dapper
[03:39] <ogra> :/
[03:40] <tseng_> i see
[03:40] <tseng_> i have a feeling we'll be doing alot of crazy stuff in dapper+1
[03:40] <zakame> I'm asking since logilab-common's mom debdiff seems to drop these, so it build for 2.3 and 2.4
[03:41] <StrikeForce> there seems to be a some deps of python2.3's left in some debian packages
[03:41] <tseng_> how often does MoM run?
[03:41] <ogra> zakame, if you merge a package and it already has 2.4 bindings in, you should try o make it work with 2.4
[03:43] <zakame> ogra: 2.4 only?  it seems to build fine as it is, but I think the current b-ds from debian are a bit heavy, ranging from 2.1 to 2.4
[03:44] <ogra> zakame, we dont have/support < 2.3
[03:44] <jsgotangco> hello
[03:44] <zakame> ogra: ok, I shall do a new debdiff then ;)
[03:46] <chx> hi. there is a problem with sshfs in dapper. apt-get install sshfs errors with http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/s/sshfs-fuse/sshfs_1.2-1_i386.deb
[03:47] <chx> and http://www.mail-archive.com/dapper-changes@lists.ubuntu.com/msg00464.html according to this there is indeed a newer one
[03:48] <ogra> chx, did you file a bug ?
[03:55] <chx> ogra: not yet.. do not even know where and hwo
[03:55] <chx> s/hwo/how
[03:57] <ogra> chx, malone
[04:02] <chx> ogra: elaborate?
[04:03] <ogra> https://launchpad.net
[04:03] <Kyral> I love transitions
[04:03] <Kyral> Epiphany broke
[04:04] <Kyral> Why does Epiphany depend on Firefox anyway...
[04:05] <chx> oh launchpad...
[04:06] <chx> ogra: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper/i386/+search?text=sshfs
[04:06] <ogra> Kyral, rewrite it to depend on dillo ;)
[04:06] <Kyral> dillo?
[04:07] <Kyral> Yes, you must love the ability of Open Source
[04:07] <Kyral> you don't like how a program works you have the right to rewrite it
[04:08] <Kyral> but I'm about to go on Thanksgiving break so
[04:08] <tseng_> epiphany uses gtkmozembed from mozilla/firefox
[04:09] <tseng_> because gtkhtml isnt nearly as good for general purpose web rendering
[04:09] <Kyral> oh ogra did you ever get around to signing my key?
[04:09] <ogra> Kyral, not yet ...
[04:09] <Kyral> okay
[04:10] <Kyral> I signed your, mind if I upoad it to the servers?
[04:10] <tseng_> you should really mail it to him
[04:11] <Kyral> I forgot the GPG command to generate the attachment X_X
[04:22] <chx> ogra: the above URL reveals nothing, i really would like to file a bug against sshfs but can't find it:(
[04:22] <jsgotangco> there's a nifty script to do that
[04:23] <ogra> chx, file it against unknown ?
[04:27] <zakame> ogra: going back at python packages, should I drop b-ds for python2.3-dev, only to leave 2.4?
[04:31] <ogra> zakame, if it works without 2.3
[04:31] <zakame> ok, will try :D
[05:15] <zakame> can some motu please check malone 4635 , debdiff? thanks :)
[05:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4635: common (Ubuntu) - logilab-common: merge new debian version Fix req. for: logilab-common (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4635
[05:16] <zakame> night all :D
[05:16] <siretart> gn8 zakame
[05:22] <siretart> how to name a skript which fetches source packages from the mirror with the distribution and package configurable?
[05:23] <jamessan|work> can't you do that with "apt-get source ..." ?
[05:24] <siretart> jamessan|work: no, I need this to work with several repositories, at the minimum ubuntu, debian and marillat
[05:24] <siretart> and easily extensible
[06:10] <siretart> jamessan|work: I now reinvestigated your suggestion, and indeed this does work. the problem is, that I have to work around the bug, that apt does not respect the --target-release option when fetching source packages :/
[06:11] <jamessan|work> siretart: I thought that had been fixed already
[06:12] <jamessan|work>   * support for apt-get [build-dep|source]  -t (closes: #152129)
[06:12] <jamessan|work> apt 0.6.42
[06:14] <siretart> jamessan|work: ah, thats apt in dapper. interesting
[06:14] <siretart> this faciliates quite a bit
[06:14] <\sh> re
[06:14] <siretart> hi \sh
[06:14] <\sh> libstdc++ love?
[06:14] <jamessan|work> :)
[06:14] <\sh> debtags?
[06:15] <siretart> \sh: huh?
[06:15] <\sh> apt needs a rebuild...mvo is working on it because of the new allocator in g++
[06:16] <\sh> debtags e.g. segfaults because of this
[06:17] <siretart> excellent, and I'll need apt from dapper on tiber :/
[06:17] <\sh> siretart: rebuilding should work...if you have actually the new g++ installed
[06:18] <siretart> \sh: new g++? doesn't it build with g++ from breezy?
[06:20] <\sh> siretart: it will..
[06:20] <siretart> but?
[06:20] <\sh> oh u need to backport it...i thought u want to compile it on dapper :)
[06:21] <siretart> ok
[06:24] <kiko> hey hey
[06:24] <kiko> how's it going?
[06:27] <dholbach> hi kiko
[06:27] <kiko> heya dholbach
[06:27] <dholbach> you want to get involved in the motu crowd as well? :)
[06:28] <dholbach> how are you?
[06:28] <kiko> I was more looking for somebody interested in packaging kiwi (a python extension to pygtk) :)
[06:28] <kiko> not too bad, and the weather is perfect!
[06:29] <dholbach> kiko: i will talk to all the motu-python-fans
[06:29] <dholbach> kiko: until now, you could put it on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
[06:29] <kiko> I know that ajmitch saved me once with pyflakes
[06:29] <dholbach> so we don't loose track of it :)
[06:29] <kiko> but somebody stole his laptop!
[06:29] <dholbach> yeah :(
[06:30] <dholbach> i wish we would have caught those thieves
[06:30] <dholbach> ...after a long day of spec-writing...
[06:32] <kiko> would have been fun sport
[06:33] <dholbach> yes, i think so :)
[06:33] <dholbach> if i ever see a lazy motu, i will introduce them to the delights of pyflakes and kiwi
[06:33] <kiko> I don't think such a thing exists
[06:34] <dholbach> what? a lazy motu? :)
[06:34] <kiko> yes!
[06:34] <dholbach> that's a nice thing to say :)
[07:00] <lfittl> dholbach: Could you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=995 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=996 again?
[07:00] <dholbach> sure
[07:01] <lfittl> :)
[07:07] <Kyral> hmm
[07:07] <Kyral> is the libhtkembedmoz.so used in Thunderbird the same as the one used in Firefox?
[07:07] <kiko> gtk you mean, yes?
[07:07] <kiko> most probably not
[07:07] <Kyral> dangit
[07:07] <kiko> dholbach, my man, kiwi is now listed on UniverseCandidates
[07:08] <dholbach> kiko: rock'n'roll
[07:08] <Kyral> Epiphany was crippled with the last update to firefox because the file disappeared
[07:08] <kiko> dholbach, I owe you big-time if you make it happen for dapper
[07:08] <Kyral> yet it exists in thunderbird's dir
[07:08] <dholbach> kiko: i will keep it in mind
[07:08] <kiko> thanks
[07:09] <Kyral> I was gonna symlink them together
[07:10] <kiko> and depend on each other? I think they aren't the same because gtkmozembed moves quickly and the releases are not time-synced
[07:10] <Kyral> yah thats why I asked :P
[07:21] <raphink> help I'm getting crazy!
[07:22] <Kyral> Welcome to the club
[07:22] <raphink> :(
[07:22] <raphink> I've been trying to package a library since yesterday
[07:22] <raphink> after 3 hours of work I eventually found out where the .so. where in the source when compiled
[07:22] <raphink> but they don't appear when I build my package!
[07:23] <raphink> :( :( :(
[07:23] <allee> raphink: hi, what do you pkg?
[07:23] <raphink> a new lib, called libeduwidgetclock
[07:23] <raphink> part of kalcul
[07:24] <raphink> I pkg kalcul @ the same time of course ;
[07:24] <allee> raphink: eh? are libeduwidgetclock and kalcul in same or different tarballs?
[07:24] <raphink> different
[07:25] <raphink> they were initially in the same
[07:25] <raphink> I asked the mainstream dev to separate them
[07:25] <raphink> so now I have to build this lib package
[07:25] <allee> raphink: ah, so others apps are using libeduwidgetclock too
[07:25] <raphink> not yet allee
[07:26] <raphink> please don't tell me I don't need to separate them
[07:26] <raphink> i've been told the goal is : no lintian output
[07:26] <raphink> and lintian said it should be separated
[07:26] <slomo> you need to separate library packages anyway...
[07:26] <slomo> -dev and normal package
[07:26] <Kyral> slomo: did you get your problems sorted out?
[07:27] <raphink> allee: are you MOTU?
[07:27] <slomo> Kyral: no... as apt is broken and the important cached archives too i can't do anything from a livecd with a chroot... i'll reinstall everything at the weekend :/
[07:27] <allee> raphink: oh, okay I don't say it ;) Other way round: lintian is not perfect.  But you're only in trouble is upstream does not care about API stability and soname of libeduwidgetclock ;)
[07:27] <Kyral> slomo: how is Apt broken?
[07:28] <raphink> allee: PM
[07:28] <allee> raphink: no, I'm not a MOTU.  Is it okay when I help you neverhteless? :)
[07:28] <slomo> Kyral: libstdc++
[07:28] <Kyral> that broke too?
[07:28] <Kyral> I just reinstalled it
[07:28] <Kyral> sudo apt-get --reinstall install foo
[07:28] <slomo> Kyral: well, as apt-get is broken and the cached archive.... dpkg too btw ;)
[07:29] <Kyral> ouch
[07:29] <Kyral> This is what we get for being cocky :D
[07:29] <slomo> Kyral: i have a feeling that the whole filesystem is damaged
[07:29] <kiko-afk> ajmitch_!
[07:29] <Kyral> slomo: :(
[07:29] <Kyral> do the fsck tools work?
[07:29] <ajmitch_> kiko!
[07:29] <slomo> Kyral: fortunately i have /home on a different partition ;) i hope this one is still working after reinstalling
[07:30] <Kyral> slomo: I think that having /home mounted elsewhere should be Ubuntu's default config :D
[07:30] <slomo> Kyral: no idea... i'll just reinstall... that way i finally get a clean system again ;) i have stuff from hoary times flying around there
[07:30] <Kyral> (well, every Distro's default config)
[07:30] <slomo> Kyral: yes... i can second that ;)
[07:30] <Kyral> Let us draft a proposal for Dapper :D
[07:31] <Kyral> But....after Thanksgiving
[07:31] <slomo> what about 4 partitions then? swap, root, home and rescue? where rescue reinstalls a default system when everything is broken ;P
[07:31] <Kyral> Grandma's Cooking > ALL!
[07:31] <Kyral> There is only one concept I like in XP
[07:32] <Kyral> and its the System Restore
[07:32] <Kyral> we need to create something like that for Linux
[07:32] <Kyral> the ability to rollback to a previous config
[07:33] <slomo> we already have this... it's called (incremental) backup ;P
[07:33] <Kyral> but in an easy to use thingy
[07:34] <Kyral> have it run as a daemon, making checkpoints every week or so, then when the bad stuff happens be able to restore to a checkpoint with one command or click
[07:35] <kiko-afk> ajmitch, how's NZ? missing the laptop?
[07:35] <ajmitch> NZ is nice, and yeah, I am
[07:36] <ajmitch> good to be back home, shame about having to be back at work
[07:37] <ajmitch> are you still on vacation there?
[07:37] <kiko-afk> hey, work is never a shame, or shouldn't be
[07:37] <kiko-afk> no, back in the office as well
[07:37] <kiko-afk> and just as well I am, because I am no good at vacation!
[07:38] <slomo> Kyral: daemon? why not a cronjob?
[07:38] <Kyral> good point
[07:38] <Kyral> I haven't gotten the hang of Cron yet :P
[07:39] <Kyral> I can't get any of my user jobs in the crontab to execute
[07:39] <slomo> hi tseng_ :)
[07:39] <tseng_> your user crontab?
[07:39] <Kyral> yah
[07:39] <tseng_> oh yes
[07:39] <Kyral> nor in my root one for that matter
[07:39] <tseng_> dont you need to be in the cron group?
[07:39] <Kyral> dunno
[07:40] <tseng_> or was that some other distro
[07:40] <Kyral> I'm not too versed in Cron :D
[07:40] <tseng_> we have a crontab group
[07:40] <tseng_> try joining it and logging in again
[07:40] <ajmitch> we do? interesting
[07:40] <tseng_> maybe i am making things up
[07:40] <ajmitch> cron works for me without that group
[07:41] <Kyral> well, it might explain my neither my root or user crontabs work
[07:41] <tseng_> hi slomo
[07:41] <tseng_> have you checked your logfiles?
[07:41] <Kyral> yah
[07:42] <Kyral> the normal system cronjobs in /etc/cron.daily and whatnot run
[07:42] <Kyral> but not the ones I plant
[07:42] <tseng_> thats entirely different
[07:42] <Kyral> All I want to do is set it so I don't have to remember to update my PBuilders
[07:43] <tseng_> cant you put a hook in the pbuilder to update at the start of every build?
[07:43] <tseng_> the buildds do that on sbuild
[07:43] <Kyral> I dunno
[07:43] <Kyral> I don't know much about pbuilder
[07:43] <Kyral> except how to use it and how to manage multiple ones
[07:44] <tseng_> --hookdir [location of user scripts] 
[07:44] <Kyral> ah
[07:44] <Kyral> in the pbuilderrc?
[07:44] <tseng_>               D<digit><digit><whatever-else-you-want>   is   executed   before              unpacking  the  source  inside  the chroot, after setting up the              chroot environment.
[07:45] <tseng_> read the manpage
[07:47] <juliux> dholbach, ping
[07:48] <dholbach> juliux: i saw the query
[07:48] <tseng_> dholbach: !
[07:48] <juliux> dholbach, but \sh means i should it do here
[07:49] <dholbach> hey tseng  :))
[07:49] <juliux> dholbach, i tried to build gnome bluetooth control remote
[07:49] <dholbach> juliux: control remote?
[07:49] <juliux> dholbach, http://chileforge.cl/docman/view.php/76/145/gbtcr.html
[07:49] <juliux> dholbach, there you should use gnome-autogen.sh
[07:50] <juliux> dholbach, the problem is that there is no config.status and so make failed
[07:50] <dholbach> really? doesnt it come with a configure script and Makefile.in already?
[07:50] <juliux> dholbach, no
[07:50] <dholbach> config.status is a generated file
[07:50] <dholbach> gnome-common contains   gnome-autogen.sh
[07:50] <dholbach> you can try running it
[07:51] <dholbach> and tell upstream to provide a proper tarball :)
[07:51] <juliux> dholbach, gnome-autogen.sh runs with no problems
[07:51] <\sh> i'm changing laptops...brb
[07:51] <juliux> dholbach, but than there is no config.status and make failed
[07:51] <dholbach> paste me the output of ./configure && make in a query
[07:51] <ajmitch> don't remind me about laptops :)
[07:52] <tseng_> damn, i need to update my wiki page
[07:52] <juliux> dholbach, without running gnome-autogen.sh there is no configure
[07:52] <dholbach> then after it
[07:52] <juliux> ok
[07:53] <slomo> juliux: so you have 2 options... run g-a.sh at build-time or make a patch with all generated files... the first one is probably cleaner but you have to be careful with build-depends on the correct automake version etc
[07:53] <juliux> slomo, ok, but i am not an developer
[07:53] <dholbach> and additionally, talk to upstream about providing a proper tarball :)
[07:54] <dholbach> usually a  ./autogen.sh && make dist    should provide them with the release tarball
[07:59] <juliux> i have a dinner now
[08:03] <rbelem> hey slomo
[08:04] <slomo> hi rbelem :)
[08:07] <rbelem> slomo: did you see that mail about ardour?
[08:08] <slomo> rbelem: ardour? no... the last one was your mail about gtkcairo... hmm, send it again :)
[08:08] <rbelem> slomo: ok... i'll send it now
[08:09] <rbelem> slomo: done
[08:10] <slomo> rbelem: thanks... i'll read it later :)
[08:11] <\sh> rbelem: ardour is missing to build on amd64 or ppc i think
[08:12] <rbelem> \sh: the upstream maintainer says that ardour at ubuntu is very unstable
[08:13] <\sh> rbelem: ardour maintainer should fix build issues on amd64 and ppc :)
[08:13] <\sh> rbelem: seriously...I merged it the other day..and I have it on my list to fix
[08:13] <\sh> .oO(when I know what its doing)
[08:13] <rbelem> ehehe
[08:14] <rbelem> \sh: do you want to read the upstream mail?
[08:15] <\sh> rbelem: send it to sh@sourcecode.de
[08:16] <ajmitch> ok, I have passport in hand, what country should I visit? ;)
[08:17] <rbelem> \sh: done
[08:18] <rbelem> ajmitch: Brazil, Amazonas ;-)
[08:19] <rbelem> ajmitch: visit the rain forest
[08:19] <ajmitch> hm
[08:19] <ajmitch> it would be fun, I'm sure
[08:19] <ajmitch> but I have to go to work now
[08:19] <rbelem> ehehehe
[08:20] <rbelem> Mark and kiko was here in august
[08:20] <ogra> rbelem, so youre on the pictures ?
[08:20] <ajmitch> bbiab
[08:20] <rbelem> ogra: yes ;-)
[08:22] <rbelem> ogra: i'll send one link
[08:22] <ogra> yay
[08:22] <sivang> rbelem: on their brazil sprint?
[08:28] <rbelem> http://www.comunidadesol.org/gallery/mark
[08:28] <rbelem> http://www.comunidadesol.org/gallery/mark/dsc02976
[08:29] <rbelem> sivang: yes ;-)
[08:29] <ogra> rbelem, cool pic :)
[08:30] <rbelem> this other is pretty cool http://www.comunidadesol.org/gallery/mark/dsc02992
[08:30] <sivang> rbelem: I didn't know they were also touring there, I thought they went just for working :)
[08:31] <ogra> rbelem, but there's no rbelem in the second pic
[08:31] <rbelem> ogra: i'm little afraid water
[08:31] <rbelem> ehehehee
[08:32] <ogra> hhe
[08:32] <rbelem> they jump from the top of the boat
[08:33] <herve> hello
[08:33] <\sh> brb grabbing my clothes from the wasching machine...
[08:34] <rbelem> sivang: he have some meetings with indt, and another companies at saturday
[08:35] <sivang> rbelem: that photos seem like  a small ubuntu conf :)
[08:35] <sivang> rbelem: you're working in async?
[08:36] <rbelem> sivang: no, async is far away from here and kiko didn't call me to work there ;-)
[08:37] <ogra> rbelem, did you ask ?
[08:37] <rbelem> sivang: a ubuntu conf here could be very cool ;-)
[08:37] <rbelem> ogra: not yet ehehehe
[08:37] <sivang> rbelem: well, this is what I am saying - this looks like a midsize ubuntu conf if to judge by number of participants :)
[08:37] <ogra> the "deutshce bank" didnt call me to be their boss yet
[08:37] <ogra> *deutsch bank
[08:38] <rbelem> ehehhehe
[08:38] <rbelem> kiko-afk is afk :/
[08:39] <ogra> he'll read the backlog
[08:39] <ogra> :)
[08:39] <kiko-afk> ME?
[08:39] <tseng_> if you send him an email he can send you a top posted reply
[08:39] <tseng_> he is that good.
[08:39] <ogra> lol
[08:39] <ajmitch> kiko-afk: yes you
[08:39] <rbelem> ehehehee
[08:40] <tseng_> the one that doesnt look like dave grohl
[08:40] <ogra> ajmitch, yes, you'd have to get up early
[08:40] <kiko-afk> what other kiko?
[08:41] <kiko-afk> there is only one top-postin kiko I know
[08:41] <rbelem> hey kiko... how are you?
[08:42] <kiko> I could be a lot worse
[08:42] <kiko> but I did crack a helmet on sunday morning
[08:42] <ajmitch> ogra: I'd have to sleep on the plane
[08:42] <tseng_> you could only work half the week
[08:43] <ajmitch> and twice as hard?
[08:43] <ogra> heh
[08:43] <tseng_> i guess you could work on the plane
[08:43] <tseng_> since bzr is diconected
[08:43] <ajmitch> if I had some real good batteries or power outlets on the plane
[08:43] <tseng_> i am thinking of swapping my cdrom for another battery
[08:43] <tseng_> more useful
[08:44] <rbelem> kiko: how this happened?
[08:47] <rbelem> ehehehe
[08:50] <\sh> re
[08:50] <jpatrick> hi \sh
[08:50] <ajmitch> hello \sh
[08:50] <sivang> hey \sh
[08:51] <tseng_> they should switch to django
[08:51] <tseng_> and lay off the crack
[08:53] <kiko> rbelem, a crash at a race
[08:56] <rbelem> kiko: kart?
[08:56] <kiko> rbelem, mountain biking?
[08:56] <Kyral> Have a happy Thanksgiving everyone (if you celebrate it)
[08:56] <Kyral> cya on Sunday
[08:57] <LaserJock> cya Kyral  and happy Thanksgiving
[08:57] <\sh> rbelem: ping
[08:57] <\sh> rbelem: this guy didn't write anything what is happening...the mail is somehow useless
[08:58] <rbelem> kiko: cool
[08:59] <sivang> kiko: you should have tried mountain biking mount royal :) parts of it looked suitable for an extreme rider
[08:59] <kiko> sivang, I did mountain bike it almost every other day
[08:59] <kiko> I had a bike rented in montreal
[09:00] <rbelem> \sh: i send question about how errors happen, but no reply
[09:00] <\sh> rbelem: better is, that he files bugreports :)
[09:01] <rbelem> \sh: but the guy that wrote this is the upstream maintainer
[09:01] <\sh> rbelem: thats why...he is the best man for this task..he can say what is wrong and what not...what is missing etc.
[09:02] <rbelem> \sh: i'll contact him to ask what's wrong
[09:03] <rbelem> or is better you contact?
[09:03] <\sh> rbelem: cool...ask him if he has time to come around here :)
[09:03] <rbelem> cool
[09:04] <Amaranth> is there another C++ transition going on or something?
[09:04] <dholbach> a smaller one, yes
[09:05] <ajmitch> one done at the same time as debian
[09:05] <Amaranth> yeah, i figured that when libstdc++6 was getting upgraded and OO.o was getting removed
[09:05] <Amaranth> damn, i guess i won't be upgrading my home machine to dapper this weekend :/
[09:05] <ajmitch> so we shouldn't have to do much assuming that debian maintainers keep on top of things ;)
[09:07] <\sh> u won't have fun
[09:07] <\sh> debhelper is unmet dep on gcc-4.0-base (as last in the chain)
[09:08] <\sh> dholbach: btw..we can't start yet with the rebuilding, renaming
[09:08] <dholbach> \sh: preparing, but that's all
[09:09] <\sh> jepp
[09:09] <\sh> actually i need debhelper again :) good that i had an old dapper chroot
[09:12] <ajmitch> sigh, I broke my dapper pbuilder here now with that problem
[09:13] <slomo> ajmitch: same here :) everything's broken here ;)
[09:14] <dholbach> any pythoneers enjoying to review kiko's kiwi on revu? :)
[09:14] <slomo> dholbach: sure, but i can't testbuild it in pbuilder currently ;)
[09:14] <ajmitch> dholbach: sure :)
[09:14] <dholbach> haha :)
[09:14] <dholbach> me neither :-p
[09:14] <ajmitch> with a name like that..
[09:14] <dholbach> as long as the buildds build it ;)
[09:15] <slomo> i like kiwis ;)
[09:15] <ajmitch> hm
[09:15] <ajmitch> dholbach: why separate build-depends & -indep there?
[09:15] <ajmitch> and why only >> 4.1.0 for debhelper?
[09:15] <ajmitch> since you need 4.2.28 for py 2.4, iirc
[09:15] <dholbach> seb told me that debhelper was required to be build-depends per policy
[09:16] <dholbach> and not indep
[09:16] <dholbach> will update to 4.2.28
[09:16] <ajmitch> right
[09:16] <slomo> dholbach: doesn't lintian warn you about build-depends on all-packages?
[09:16] <dholbach> done, will upload the bunch of fixed mistakes you find
[09:16] <dholbach> slomo: no
[09:16] <dholbach> it's fine with lintian
[09:17] <slomo> dholbach: ok...
[09:17] <ajmitch> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/12/msg01743.html
[09:17] <dholbach> ajmitch: that was in 2003 :-p
[09:17] <ajmitch> can't use dh_clean if debhelper is only in build-depends-indep
[09:18] <dholbach> cool
[09:18] <slomo> dholbach: maybe add something to the short description in the -examples pacakge that this  package contains the examples... '(examples)' or something
[09:18] <dholbach> err
[09:18] <ajmitch>  ;)
[09:19] <dholbach> ajmitch: i talked to upstream :)
[09:19] <dholbach> slomo:
[09:19] <dholbach> + This package installs some examples to
[09:19] <dholbach> + /usr/share/doc/kiwi-examples
[09:19] <dholbach> ajmitch: they'll fix it (with some other things for the next release)
[09:19] <ajmitch> dholbach: but that's because I just like picking at things
[09:19] <dholbach> ajmitch: no, i don't like it either
[09:19] <ajmitch> dholbach: hopefully upstream is nice & responsive :)
[09:19] <dholbach> ajmitch: it's kiko and jdahlin :)
[09:20] <dholbach>  ajmitch i considered it a 'quickfix'
[09:20] <ajmitch> I know
[09:20] <slomo> dholbach: in the short description :) but that's personal preference... keep it only in the long description if you want :)
[09:20] <dholbach> slomo: oh yeah, right - will fix that
[09:20] <ajmitch> dholbach: sure, and I have similar in my packages
[09:20] <kiko> ajmitch, be kind to little kiwi
[09:21] <ajmitch> kiko: I'm from NZ, I have to be kind to kiwis
[09:21] <ajmitch> dholbach: why simple-patchsys?
[09:21] <ajmitch> dholbach: since you have no patches..
[09:22] <dholbach> ajmitch: i tried patching something, i generally keep it in there, else i add it, remove it, add it, remove it, add it for every release ;)
[09:22] <slomo> ajmitch: maybe for the future... to show others how you would like to get patches applied... but it doesn't hurt anyway ;)
[09:22] <dholbach> but i can chuck it out
[09:22] <dholbach> (if it's a matter of approving ;))
[09:23] <ajmitch> dholbach: I'd probably approve without it
[09:23] <herve> dholbach, I like the irony of the situation
[09:23] <herve> it's your turn :-p
[09:23] <dholbach> herve: am i really that bad? :)
[09:23] <ajmitch> it's just hard for me to build & test this at the moment
[09:24] <ajmitch> herve: hah, dholbach asks for this sort of review
[09:24] <dholbach> siretart: could you test-build kiwi?
[09:24] <herve> dholbach, no you just made quite the same mistakes as mine :-)
[09:24] <dholbach> siretart: could you revu-build kiwi?
[09:24] <dholbach> herve: haha :)
[09:24] <herve> ajmitch, I'd lke such one too ;-)
[09:24] <dholbach> herve: or better say 'ah ah' :)
[09:25] <herve> muhahahaha!!
[09:25] <slomo> dholbach: you missed one copyright... kiwi/tasklet.py isn't copyright by async but "Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro"
[09:25] <ajmitch> herve: I'm not that good at reviewing, I just pick up on some things
[09:25] <dholbach> slomo: right
[09:25] <herve> ajmitch, yes, that's what I call the third eye
[09:26] <lfittl> Could somebody do a quick review of http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1004?
[09:26] <dholbach> slomo: thanks
[09:26] <slomo> dholbach: and copyright holder for the other stuff seems to be the whole asyncs, not only one person... don't know if this matters ;)
[09:26] <slomo> np
[09:27] <dholbach> hm, dunno either, to be honest
[09:27] <ajmitch> dholbach: mercilessly bug upstream
[09:27] <slomo> dholbach: Christian Reis is maintainer/upstream author but not the copyright holder imho
[09:27] <herve> lfittl, you raised a nice revu bug ;-)
[09:27] <lfittl> herve: ? :)
[09:28] <lfittl> nice :)
[09:28] <dholbach> slomo: i'm happy to list the whole bunch of them :)
[09:29] <slomo> dholbach: ok, then i would list async and gustavo as copyright holders and the whole crew as authors (or only christian as the maintainer?)... but better ask ajmitch for a second oppinion :)
[09:30] <ajmitch> slomo: I'd ask kiko
[09:31] <sivang> talking about kiwi I suppose?
[09:31] <ajmitch> yes
[09:32] <ajmitch> hello doko_
[09:32] <kiko> slomo?
[09:36] <sivang> kiko: what is Stoq ?
[09:36] <kiko> sivang, it's a system we've been developing for some 4 years now
[09:36] <kiko> business management
[09:37] <slomo> kiko: we were reviewing the kiwi package... who should be listed as copyright holder? async and "Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro" or all members of async and gustavo? do you want all authors/contributors listed or only christian reis as the maintainer?
[09:37] <sivang> kiko: the page is in brazillian portugeese :)
[09:37] <sivang> kiko: that's why IU'm asking. Seems like some sort of inventory management system or so?
[09:38] <kiko> sivang, inventory, storefront/point-of-sales, purchasing, etc
[09:38] <kiko> but that's pretty much what it is
[09:38] <kiko> we need to redo that website
[09:38] <kiko> it's so 1980s
[09:38] <sivang> kiko: yeah :)
[09:38] <kiko> slomo, jdahlin is the current maintainer. as for copyright, I assume the copyright is async, though I don't think gjc or lgs formally handed over the copyright, I could ask them to
[09:40] <slomo> kiko: in the headers of the files only async and gustavo are listed as copyright holders... when this is correct those two are to be listed imho
[09:42] <kiko> slomo, jdahlin tells me that it's correct, that it's both gjc and async, so fine.
[09:43] <dholbach> changed it
[09:43] <dholbach> and uploaded it revu again
[09:43] <slomo> kiko: ok, do you want all authors/contributors listed? or only christian as upstream author?
[09:43] <sivang> kiko: kiwi supposed to be easier then directly using pygtk ?
[09:44] <kiko> sivang, a lot easier!
[09:44] <dholbach> slomo: i have a note in there, telling that the full list of contributors is in AUTHORS, which should be fine
[09:44] <kiko> slomo, christian is me, for the record. I think it would be nice if all authors were listed, given that lorenzo did most of the porting to pygtk2 and jdahlin maintains it now
[09:44] <sivang> kiko: seems like I am going to use it for home-user-backup :)
[09:44] <slomo> kiko: oh sorry
[09:45] <kiko> slomo, nothing to be sorry for -- I really appreciate your review
[09:45] <kiko> I'm just typing like mad in 12 channels
[09:45] <slomo> dholbach: ok, then you got my vote when the generated binary packages are fine which i can't test currently :/
[09:46] <sivang> one of them. in spanish :)
[09:46] <dholbach> slomo: build them with debuild, do it like a man :)
[09:47] <slomo> dholbach: i like dpkg-buildpackage ;) but ok, will do
[09:49] <sivang> slomo: so we are going to have kiwi in dapper soon?
[09:50] <slomo> dholbach: hm, doesn't -examples need kiwi itself?
[09:51] <kiko> it does.
[09:51] <dholbach> not if you look at them :)
[09:51] <dholbach> i just don't want circular dependencies
[09:51] <slomo> hm, my kiwi package is empty except /usr/share/doc
[09:51] <dholbach> oh nice
[09:52] <herve> I like the idea of installing the examples without the whole family
[09:52] <herve> if you just want to take a look
[09:52] <herve> a recommends is enough to me
[09:52] <kiko> at the code?
[09:52] <herve> yes, see what kiwi code looks like
[09:52] <kiko> sure, why not.
[09:53] <sivang> herve: but you need to have the kiwi for running the examples no?
[09:53] <lifeless> kiwi ?
[09:53] <herve> sivang, yes, so the "recommends"
[09:53] <herve> it's better with but not mandatory
[09:53] <sivang> herve: ah ok, cool
[09:54] <dholbach> got that
[09:57] <dholbach> slomo: i will look at the empty package in a bit, need to do a break
[09:57] <slomo> dholbach: sure, np :)
[09:58] <slomo> hm, maybe i should build firefox and epiphany in my running system to get back a working epiphany...
[10:18] <bur[n] er> has anyoen tried usign gnome-torrent?  http://www.amedias.org/~koke/gnome-torrent/  I made a .deb http://burner.ath.cx/debs/gnome-torrent_0.2-1_i386.deb but for some reason, this app won't download.  Not sure if it's just premature or me.
[10:23] <bur[n] er> I just wanted to add that .deb is nothing special, just a checkinstall quick thing
[10:28] <ogra> bur[n] er, koke is motu, i guess he knows why he didntpackage it yet
[10:28] <bur[n] er> awww :)  I figured that was an ubuntu person with the screenshots & site color scheme ;)
[10:28] <bur[n] er> thanks ogra
[10:29] <ogra> but poke him if he's around, he probably dropped development on it
[10:36] <bur[n] er> i hope he didn't!  it's my one hope to take me away from ktorrent
[10:36] <sivang> kiko-afk: still here?
[10:37] <sivang> kiko-afk: I tried to use kiwi's latest source release (in a arball) the person example doesn't work, I can't seen to import Proxies, FrameWork etc
[10:42] <lifeless> what is kiwi ?
[10:43] <ogra> lifeless, they provide it in arballs :)
[10:43] <lifeless> nono, what *is* kiwi
[10:44] <ogra> dunno :)
[10:44] <ogra> but sivang will
[10:45] <Amaranth> it's a MVC framework thing you use with pygtk
[10:56] <dirkvdbroek> Hello, I would like to add a package to ubuntu multiverse
[10:57] <Amaranth> dirkvdbroek: what package?
[10:57] <dirkvdbroek> veejay.dyne.org
[10:58] <dirkvdbroek> It is a veejay tool
[10:58] <dirkvdbroek> currently most development is in cvs
[10:58] <dirkvdbroek> however we are stable
[10:58] <ogra> dirkvdbroek, why multiverse ?
[10:58] <dirkvdbroek> current snapshot is stable enough to be released to a wider audience
[10:58] <dirkvdbroek> I thought multiverse was sort of the 'playground' ?
[10:58] <ogra> nope
[10:59] <ogra> multiverse is for non-free stuff
[10:59] <Amaranth> multiverse is legally questionable universe stuff
[10:59] <dirkvdbroek> Ok, well we do use ffmpeg
[10:59] <ogra> do youinclude it ?
[10:59] <dirkvdbroek> yes
[10:59] <ogra> ouch
[10:59] <dirkvdbroek> it does not install it
[10:59] <ogra> can you dynamically link to ours
[10:59] <ogra> ?
[10:59] <dirkvdbroek> hm...
[11:00] <dirkvdbroek> Let me check with our 'main guy' since I'm merely packager and chief tester
[11:00] <dirkvdbroek> :)(
[11:01] <ogra> if you could use ffmpeg dynamically, it wouldnt have to go to multiverse .... and code duplication in source packages is a big nono
[11:01] <dirkvdbroek> well, technically we did not include ffmpeg in the source package, rather we have a script that downloads cvs
[11:02] <dirkvdbroek> this is why we want to release binary packages
[11:02] <dirkvdbroek> since 'current' is 'stable'
[11:02] <ogra> eek... dont do such things in deb packages
[11:02] <ogra> (downloading from the web)
[11:02] <dirkvdbroek> yes, well, it works, and it's not your average desktop application
[11:03] <dirkvdbroek> I guess the most powerfull video processor out there tho
[11:03] <dirkvdbroek> basically a veejay tool but also a tool that we ( as a group of artists) have been succesfully applying on multiple stage performances
[11:03] <dirkvdbroek> anyhow,
[11:04] <dirkvdbroek> I was wondering if it were possible to release somewhere so some of your users can use synaptic to update veejay.
[11:05] <dirkvdbroek> until now, it have always been 'alien' .deb packages loosely distributed from some website
[11:05] <dirkvdbroek> I like the effort of ubuntu, trying to get stuff done in one place and all,
[11:05] <dirkvdbroek> this is why I took the efford of getting a version ready for ubuntu
[11:08] <dholbach> anybody who wanted to become ubuntu member and is not in #ubuntu-meeting?
[11:08] <ogra> dirkvdbroek, sorry, i'm in a meeting now in #ubuntu-meeting ...
[11:09] <dirkvdbroek> ok
[11:33] <crimsun> it's interesting to note the concentration of european members versus north american members
[11:33] <crimsun> sistpoty: thanks for the hugs98 merge yesterday
[11:34] <sistpoty> hi
[11:34] <sistpoty> np
[11:34] <crimsun> (I use it during lecture)
[11:34] <sistpoty> hehe, so did I last term
[11:51] <Amaranth> whoops, gotta go
[11:53] <crimsun> d'oh, minghua's not here.
[11:58] <LaserJock> hmm, what's the difference between breezy-updates and breezy-security? Doesn't it pretty much take something critical like a  security problem to get something into updates?
[11:59] <crimsun> no
[11:59] <ajmitch> no, they're separate for a reason
[11:59] <crimsun> case in point would be sabayon
[11:59] <ajmitch> security is just for security, it has its special approval queue
[12:00] <LaserJock> what would it take to get into updates then? I guess wiping out your system or something like that
[12:01] <kiko-afk> sivang, that's interesting. can you give me further details? a traceback?