[12:15] <bhuvan> * bhuvan goes back to sleep
[12:16] <mdke> night
[12:16] <bhuvan> night
[12:32] <mdke> Riddell, do we absolutely _have_ to use meinproc? it seems to drag in all sorts of kde specific dependencies. Weren't things ok with xslproc?
[12:33] <Riddell> xsltproc doesn't make the index.cache.bz2 file
[12:34] <mdke> Riddell, i see. But wasn't it done with xsltproc for breezy?
[12:34] <Riddell> yes, and all the files had <FILENAME=FOO> at the top of them which meinproc gets rid of when it splits up the pages
[12:34] <mdke> hmm
[12:35] <mdke> you sure that is not just a setting that needs to be changed?
[12:35] <Riddell> well it's in the stylesheets
[12:36] <mdke> Riddell, and xsltproc doesn't read those stylesheets properly?
[12:38] <Riddell> it reads the properly and puts the <FILENAME=FOO> stuff at the top and bottom of each page
[12:38] <Riddell> then doesn't split the pages up
[12:39] <mdke> Riddell, i would think that is due to it not having the correct xsl stylesheets, perhaps it needs the chunk rather than the single ones or something
[12:39] <Riddell> that is the chunk one
[12:39] <mdke> hmm
[12:39] <Riddell> KDE wants to convert it to one big file with those <FILENAME=FOO> tags around each "page" and put it in an index.cache.bz2 file
[12:40] <Riddell> then the next step, usually done at viewing time not build-time is to convert that to normal html pages
[12:40] <Riddell> which is a lot faster than doing docbook->html at viewing time as gnome does
[12:40] <Riddell> and takes up less space than html does
[12:40] <mdke> Riddell, what is wrong with making the html at build time?
[12:40] <mdke> ah
[12:41] <Riddell> mdke: too much disk space
[12:42] <mdke> Riddell, ok.
[12:43] <mdke> Riddell, i am just fiddling with removing the preliminary k from documents
[12:43] <Riddell> cool
[12:43] <mdke> Riddell, i've build some things, and I notice that the releasenotes-web has this in the html:
[12:43] <mdke> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/stable/common/kde-default.css" type="text/css">
[12:43] <mdke> is that from the kde website or something?
[12:44] <Riddell> should be /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/common/
[12:44] <mdke> in the web target?
[12:45] <Riddell> well, copy that directory to /stable/common/
[12:45] <Riddell> in the web target
[12:45] <mdke> it should be ../../kde-default.css
[12:45] <mdke> as I had it in kubuntu/libs/kde-ubuntu-web.xsl
[12:46] <Riddell> I just stole the stylesheet from docs.kde.org, feel free to fix it.  XSL scares me
[12:46] <mdke> i don't want to muck around with the directory structure on the webserver too much
[12:46] <mdke> Riddell, ok, i might try and figure out how much it differs from the previous setup
[12:47] <mdke> (default stylesheets + kde css)
[12:48] <mdke> s/default/default xsl
[02:19] <kevogod> http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all_files/note.png is a broken image
[02:58] <jsgotangco> whats up?
[03:09] <jsgotangco> xchat has this strange red line in dapper in the chat window
[03:12] <Burgundavia> my dapper disk failed to install
[03:12] <Burgundavia> burning another now
[03:13] <jsgotangco> its pretty much the same
[03:13] <jsgotangco> except system tools only has 2 entries at the moment
[03:14] <Burgundavia> ah crap
[03:14] <Burgundavia> that cd just crapped out on me
[03:14] <Burgundavia> no dapper tonight it seems
[03:18] <jjesse> my kubuntu dapper failed during installation and i haven't wasted the time ton install it
[03:22] <jsgotangco> its pretty much the same except the borked debconf thing at the end of the installation which doesn't do anything really
[03:25] <Burgundavia> hmm
[03:26] <jsgotangco> see you guys later i need to get my visa to the embassy office
[04:12] <jjesse> Burgundavia which harry potter?
[04:12] <jjesse> the new one goblet of fire is great
[04:16] <kevogod> I am going to see it next week probably.
[04:16] <kevogod> Is it the best out of the bunch?
[04:16] <jjesse> kevogod: i think so, its the most violent
[04:18] <jjesse> it's alos long 2hours 45 minutes or somethng like that
[04:18] <jjesse> i won't spoiil anything :)
[07:00] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: just pulled that drive from my box, all ready for reinstalling
[07:01] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[08:01] <rob1> Fetching external item into 'kubuntu/serverguide'
[08:01] <rob1> Updated external to revision 2109.
[08:01] <rob1> ?
[08:10] <bhuvan> Riddell: ping
[08:33] <Burgundavia> ah crap, there is another corey involved in Ubuntu now
[08:34] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: you'll survive
[08:35] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: did you do the Breezy kernel update today? it's eaten my fglrx drivers... again...
[08:36] <Burgundavia> nope haven't done it yet
[08:36] <Burgundavia> welcome to the fun of non-free crap
[08:36] <Burgundavia> for dapper we can look forward to completely free 3d drivers
[08:36] <Madpilot> heh
[08:36] <Madpilot> I've already restarted this box more today that I have in the previous month...
 Imagine how poorly suited to modern life a person who found circuit boards to be irresistably delicious would be
[08:44] <robitaille> cool, firefox 1.5 is getting into dapper tonight
[08:46] <Burgundavia> another random link, possibly not work safe
[08:46] <Burgundavia> http://www.livejournal.com/community/craftgrrl/7338468.html
[08:50] <Burgundavia>     "A personal computer is called a personal computer because it's yours," said Andrew Moss, Microsoft's senior director of technical policy. "Anything that runs on that computer, you should have control over." 
[08:52] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: thanks for that link... "His Noodly Appendage" has whole new realms of meaning when you see that thing... :P
[08:53] <Burgundavia> ironically, my background is "touched by his noodly appendage" with the photoshopped FSM in place of god
[08:54] <Madpilot> the Sistine Chapel photoshop?
[08:55] <Burgundavia> yep
[08:58] <Madpilot> back later, got to reconfigure X to use 3d accel again, dammit...
[09:11] <Madpilot> back - with 3d again - linux-restricted-modules-<new #> didn't update itself for whatever reason
[09:13] <Burgundavia> that is because it cannot be built until the linux part is in the archive
[09:13] <Burgundavia> epiphany does the same thing
[09:13] <Burgundavia> a solution needs to be found for this problem
[09:18] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, flight gear just released a new version
[09:18] <Madpilot> it'll make dapper?
[09:19] <Burgundavia> most likely
[09:19] <Madpilot> I'm impressed so far with the Dapper packages - lots of stuff updated to the very latest stable. Nice change from the Breezy/Hoary sameness
[09:34] <rob1> stable is it?
[09:35] <Burgundavia> currently the entire archive is not building, so I don't know how stable it is
[09:35] <rob1> yeah
[09:41] <bhuvan> folks taking care of kubuntu docs here ?
[09:42] <bhuvan> wish to discuss couple of changes in kubuntu/Makefile to make it compatible with meinproc
[09:45] <rob1> can't say I've used meinproc much
[09:45] <rob1> why do you want kubuntu docs to use that?
[09:46] <bhuvan> meinproc is to build kde documents
[09:46] <rob1> in the end it doesn't matter that much
[09:46] <rob1> not for ubuntu/kubuntu anyway
[09:46] <bhuvan> it's similar to xsltproc
[09:47] <rob1> what advantages are there?
[09:47] <Burgundavia> bhuvan, can I ask why you want to build the kubuntu docs different from the ubuntu docs?
[09:47] <bhuvan> we can use it to generate the cache file, thus we can display the document in khelpcenter
[09:47] <rob1> but you can just view html in khelpcenter anyway, right?
[09:47] <bhuvan> moreover currently the .desktop files are unused. it's meant to be used with meinproc
[09:48] <bhuvan> the kde docteam uses meinproc to maintain their docs..
[09:48] <bhuvan> anonsvn.kde.org
[09:48] <rob1> meinproc doesn't appear to support xincludes
[09:49] <rob1> unless it does it by default, I can't see any mention in the man page
[09:49] <Burgundavia> bhuvan, I am more interested in internal consistency with Ubuntu/Kubuntu than with what any upstream does
[09:49] <Burgundavia> s/with/within
[09:49] <rob1> I think its up to the kubuntu authors if they want to use meinproc
[09:49] <bhuvan> imo, kubuntu docs must be compatible with kde apps. ubuntu docs must be compatible with gnome apps
[09:50] <bhuvan> ok
[09:50] <Burgundavia> bhuvan, the person you need to talk to mdke, at any rate
[09:50] <bhuvan> was looking for Riddell, he have done couple of related changes in kubuntu/Makefile
[09:50] <bhuvan> Burgundavia, sure i'll speak to him
[09:51] <rob1> anyone can make changes to the make file, but I'm more intrested in keeping riddell/jsgotango happy
[09:51] <bhuvan> rob1, me too
[09:51] <rob1> in respect to k* issues anyway
[09:52] <Burgundavia> bhuvan, I am not directly opposing any shift to two different build systems. I just think that the benefits and costs need to be weighed out
[09:52] <rob1> hmm.. should "getting help" be another category, or an appendix..
[09:52] <Burgundavia> and clearly communicated
[09:53] <Burgundavia> anyway, night
[09:54] <rob1> cya Burgundavia 
[11:47] <`6og> hi all
[11:48] <`6og> I'm just looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SSHHowto and  under the "copying files over ssh" heading there is a line like this "bash:~$ scp <file> <username>@<ipaddress>:<!DestinationDirectory>" I'm wondering if that ! is a markup error or if it's supposed to be there for some reason?
[11:49] <`6og> it's repeated a few lines later as well
[12:49] <Riddell> bhuvan: hmm?
[01:03] <WaterSevenUb> hey guys....
[01:04] <WaterSevenUb> #u-translators has been working in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslationTeam
[01:04] <WaterSevenUb> trying to make it a translation portal for new translators specially
[01:05] <WaterSevenUb> an idea came out... what about a
[01:05] <WaterSevenUb> Ubuntu Translation Guide "a la" http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gtp/l10n-guide/
[01:05] <WaterSevenUb> to ship with ubuntu-docs ?
[01:06] <mdke> i don't think the world needs another translation guide. That one is enough
[01:06] <mdke> a guide to using rosetta would be useful
[01:06] <mdke> make sure you talk to the rosetta guys to make sure that you don't do duplicate work
[01:08] <`6og> does anyone know about that wiki thing?
[01:08] <`6og> btw. whos the auther? i have a few comments... (or should i just hack it?)
[01:08] <mdke> `6og, hack away
[01:08] <mdke> i don't see that the ! can be intended
[01:09] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, yeah... perhaps... would be useful to package the gnome guide?
[01:09] <`6og> ok. thanks. *hopes nothing breaks*
[01:09] <jsgotangco> hey all
[01:09] <mdke> WaterSevenUb, i don't think so really
[01:09] <mdke> why?
[01:09] <mdke> hi jsgotangco 
[01:09] <jsgotangco> sup
[01:09] <Madpilot> `6og: it's fairly hard to break the wiki - we can always revert serious messes, or just re-edit others. ;)
[01:09] <`6og> hi jsgotangco
[01:09] <jsgotangco> gnome guide?
[01:10] <`6og> Madpilot:  :)
[01:10] <`6og> it's more how public the break it, and how i feel about it ;)
[01:10] <`6og> bbl. hacking
[01:10] <jsgotangco> hi `6og 
[01:10] <mdke> good man
[01:10] <jsgotangco> (hard nick to type)
[01:10] <`6og> jsgotangco: yeh, sorry
[01:10] <mdke> ahh
[01:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[01:11] <WaterSevenUb> the only worry that I have is that people now have a easy way to reach launchpad and make some translations
[01:12] <WaterSevenUb> and they should have basic taughts before doing saw.
[01:12] <WaterSevenUb> saw=so.
[01:12] <mdke> WaterSevenUb, there is an easy way to do that
[01:12] <mdke> before approving people in translating teams, they should read the guides
[01:12] <mdke> and you should check their translation is of a good quality
[01:13] <mdke> rosetta is online, so there is no reason why translators shouldn't use online guides. I don't see a need for packaging the translating guide
[01:13] <WaterSevenUb> well.. checking translations of some guy I think is not yet implemented
[01:13] <WaterSevenUb> right, zyga?
[01:14] <mdke> WaterSevenUb, it doesn't need to be
[01:14] <WaterSevenUb> before approval ... yeah, it's a good suggestion
[01:14] <mdke> you can check by eye
[01:14] <zyga> re
[01:14] <mdke> the italian team has that system
[01:14] <mdke> (e.g.)
[01:15] <WaterSevenUb> small teams need to take some momentum before being so restrict with people that want to help...
[01:15] <mdke> if you go to the people/user page, then click translations, you'll see what packages the person has suggested translations for. Go through it, check them, decide whether the guy speaks good enough english and/or portugese
[01:15] <zyga> I'm not sure really: it's difficult to see all actuall translations of person X
[01:15] <zyga> mdke: it's hard to filter that person's translation
[01:15] <zyga> it's a manual process
[01:15] <WaterSevenUb> zyga, I agree
[01:15] <mdke> zyga, not really. I do it regularly
[01:15] <mdke> especially if a person has made a substantial contribution to untranslated strings
[01:15] <zyga> hmm, is there any way to sort by translator?
[01:15] <mdke> not yet
[01:15] <zyga> well it's easy then
[01:16] <zyga> I agree about rosetta being online
[01:16] <mdke> just view untranslated strings
[01:16] <zyga> but that doc is good enough to likn from the wiki
[01:16] <WaterSevenUb> so... you think that we should focus on Rosetta usage documentation....
[01:16] <mdke> zyga, go ahead and link it
[01:16] <WaterSevenUb> in a newbie perspective?
[01:16] <WaterSevenUb> with pictures of Rosetta....
[01:16] <WaterSevenUb> go here... click here.. do that...
[01:16] <mdke> WaterSevenUb, yes, but ask in #lp
[01:16] <mdke> because they are probably documenting it too
[01:16] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, just wondering for now ;)
[01:17] <zyga> k
[01:17] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, ok , thx.
[01:17] <mdke> translation styleguides are very useful, you can definitely link them
[01:17] <WaterSevenUb> and ubuntu == gnome style?
[01:17] <WaterSevenUb> :)
[01:17] <mdke> in l10n-it we use the one at the italian linux translation project, rather than the gnome one
[01:17] <mdke> WaterSevenUb, all translation style should be consistent IMO
[01:20] <WaterSevenUb> hhmm...
[01:21] <mdke> anyhow, it's definitely important to check that people translating Ubuntu know what they are doing, because otherwise it is worse than having no translation at all
[01:22] <mdke> but this is really OT for #ubuntu-doc, more a question for the translators mailing list
[01:22] <WaterSevenUb> mdke, thx for your input...
[01:22] <WaterSevenUb> -> lunch.
[01:24] <jsgotangco> err we have a styleguide
[01:24] <jsgotangco> plesae refer to it
[01:24] <jsgotangco> if it looks a bit thin, please contribute to it
[01:25] <mdke> we're talking about translation
[01:25] <mdke> in general, rather than of docs
[01:25] <jsgotangco> translation howto?
[01:26] <mdke> that's right
[01:26] <mdke>  [12:05:18]  < WaterSevenUb> an idea came out... what about a
[01:26] <mdke>  [12:05:28]  < WaterSevenUb> Ubuntu Translation Guide "a la" http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gtp/l10n-guide/
[01:26] <mdke>  [12:05:35]  < WaterSevenUb> to ship with ubuntu-docs ?
[01:26] <jsgotangco> well we did want to incorporate such in the style guide
[01:27] <jsgotangco> :P
[01:27] <jsgotangco> but no one seems interested really
[01:27] <mdke> we're talking about guides for translating in general, not translating documentation
[01:27] <mdke> my view is that the online ones are enough
[01:27] <mdke> we don't need to ship external (and irrelevant) documentation in ubuntu-docs
[01:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> can someone look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SSHHowto. the bit about ssh-copy-id specifically - it says copy to root@remotebox. if remotebox is an ubuntu box, then there is no  (useable) root user... or have  i missed something?
[01:28] <jsgotangco> like i said we wanted something similar :P
[01:28] <mdke> i'm not going to argue at all
[01:28] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, i always copy my ssh id to matt@remotebox
[01:29] <mdke> dunno why root is necessary
[01:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> so i should change the page ?
[01:29] <Kamping_Kaiser> actualy, can i not, i don't know enough about that stuff yet :|
[01:30] <mdke> i'll take a look later
[01:31] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks
[01:32] <bhuvan> Riddell: ping
[01:36] <jsgotangco> mdke: :P
[01:40] <Riddell> bhuvan: pong
[01:41] <bhuvan> i was looking for you to discuss about using meinproc for kubuntu
[01:42] <bhuvan> but, mdke made things clear in this email
[01:42] <bhuvan> s/this/his
[01:42] <bhuvan> seems, we can defer this proposal atleast till we create kubuntu documents
[01:42] <Riddell> ?  there are kubuntu documents
[01:43] <bhuvan> there are. seems, there's no further development ?
[01:44] <bhuvan> we already started using meinproc for desktopguide
[01:45] <bhuvan> but, is it worth implementing this for all other documents ?
[01:45] <Riddell> and the KDE documents use meinproc now
[01:47] <bhuvan> in addition, seems we must make few more amendments as per my proposal w.u.c/DocteamKubuntu
[01:49] <Riddell> the trunk branch does everything mentioned in DocteamKubuntu I think
[01:49] <bhuvan> i guess, no
[01:49] <bhuvan> meinproc, yes for all kubuntu documents
[01:50] <bhuvan> as per proposal, things to do includes:  1) rename the files (*.docbook)  2) apply default stylesheet  3) may be merge foo-html & foo-web
[01:52] <Riddell> I don't see any advantage in renaming to .docbook in the archive but the debian packaging installs them as index.docbook
[01:52] <Riddell> the default stylesheet is used
[01:53] <bhuvan> and all other kde apps install them as index.docbook
[01:53] <Riddell> foo-html is for offline while foo-web is for online, they use different stylesheets
[01:53] <bhuvan> ok
[01:54] <bhuvan> imo, we dont have two types of html document for ubuntu docs
[01:54] <bhuvan> why should we do it just for kubuntu ?
[01:56] <Riddell> because they use different stylesheets, feel free to fix it so that they use only one though
[01:57] <bhuvan> guess, it'd be solved if we merge it ?
[01:57] <bhuvan> let it use kde-default.css
[01:59] <jjesse> monring
[02:01] <Riddell> bhuvan: the server-guide under kubuntu is a external (i.e. symlink) to the one in generic, it's just so it can be built using the KDE stylesheet
[02:01] <bhuvan> o
[02:01] <bhuvan> ok
[02:02] <jjesse> Riddell: i think mdke wasw having issues w/ it, is it because it is just a symlink?
[02:03] <Riddell> jjesse: is what because it's a symlink?
[02:03] <jjesse> Riddell: i think he tried to remove it from svn yesterday and couldn't do it
[02:03] <Riddell> "Can somebody remove the
[02:03] <Riddell> serverguide from the trunk/kubuntu folder? I tried yesterday but it
[02:03] <Riddell> seems to have been added in a slightly odd way and it wouldn't let me
[02:03] <Riddell> remove it with "svn delete" or "svn rm"."
[02:03] <Riddell> bless :)
[02:03] <jjesse> Riddell: he was getting erors?
[02:03] <Riddell> spose I should subscribe to ubuntu-doc
[02:03] <jjesse> Riddell: i added it via svn copy and couldn't delete it either :(
[02:04] <Riddell> erk
[02:04] <jjesse> it was discussed on IRC not on the mailing list :)
[02:04] <jjesse> so you don't neccesarly have to subscribe to yet another list
[02:05] <bhuvan> jjesse, it was discussed on mailing list as well
[02:06] <Riddell> I seem to have missed quite a few kubuntu related threads on ubuntu-doc
[02:08] <jjesse> i just noticed the one on meinproc being discuessed now
[02:10] <Riddell> oh cool, quicktour in docbook
[02:11] <Riddell> bhuvan: are you going to add stuff to the makefile for that?
[02:12] <Riddell> ah, needs a stylesheet still
[02:12] <jjesse> Riddell: i'm almost done adding/changing the switching your friend to windows guide
[02:12] <jjesse> sorry from windows
[02:12] <Riddell> hah, don't get that the wrong way round :)
[02:12] <jjesse> grin i haven't had my coffee yet thsi morning
[02:13] <bhuvan> Riddell, based on what you say. imo, we can merge foo-web and foo-html, but except for server guide
[02:15] <Riddell> bhuvan: why except for server guide?
[02:15] <jjesse> the server guide should have the same stylesheet as all the kubuntu docs
[02:15] <jjesse> even if its generic
[02:17] <Riddell> hmm, mdke removed the external to serverguide, wonder how he's expecting the .deb to be built then
[02:20] <bhuvan> if we've a link, then i can include serverguide too and merge *-html & *-web
[02:24] <Riddell> bhuvan: if you do merge -html and -web make sure it doesn't affect the .deb packaging and that it can be done on the webserver using whatever is on there
[02:26] <bhuvan> if you meant the url, yes i'll try to take care
[02:32] <Riddell> bhuvan: could you change serverguide to not use <xi:include>, meinproc doesn't understand it
[02:32] <bhuvan> oh!
[02:33] <bhuvan> i've not uploaded the recent server guide though
[02:35] <Riddell> well change it whenever but I can't see a way around it
[02:35] <bhuvan> ok
[02:46] <Kamping_Kaiser> sorry to go a different tangent to existing conversation, but rather then "5 3 * * * /usr/bin/apt-get update" as a demonstration of cron, should be use somthing that doesnt A, need to edit roots cron, and B call the same program people will try and use to auto download + apply packages (which afaik is not recomended)
[02:51] <mdke> Riddell, in breezy, the ubuntu-docs deb was built without external links to generic/faqguide in the gnome/ directory. Also, this "don't use xincludes for your documents" is not something we can just accept blindly. xincludes are a feature of our documentation.
[02:52] <mdke> i think this needs better discussion
[02:53] <mdke> i think the best solution may be to use xsltproc, standard xsl stylesheets and the kde css from kdelibs-data
[02:53] <Riddell> mdke: the external is needed because the kubuntu-docs packages is made from the kubuntu directory not the trunk directory as the ubuntu one is.  you need to either add the external back or change the packaging to be built from one source
[02:54] <mdke> Riddell, ok i don't have a problem with the one source thing
[02:55] <mdke> thanks for the "bless" though :)
[02:58] <Riddell> mdke: so you'll change the packaging for that?
[03:00] <Riddell> mdke: what's the advantage in using xincludes over the old SYSTEM entities?
[03:08] <jjesse> can i learn the difference between an xinclude and a SYSTEM entry thru reading the docbook manual or some other place?
[03:09] <mdke> Riddell, will get back to later, busy at work suddenly
[03:10] <Riddell> jjesse: see the ubuntu desktop guide for xinclude and the kubuntu desktop guide for SYSTEM entities
[03:11] <jjesse> Riddell: ok
[03:11] <Riddell> xinclude is a proper XML way to do it, SYSTEM entities is an older DTD type way
[03:11] <jjesse> and you are looking to figure out if one is better then the other for packaging?  (sorry trying to learn all of this
[03:11] <Riddell> jjesse: so if you want to steal the ubuntu desktop guide to start the kubuntu desktop guide you need to convert it to SYSTEM entities first
[03:12] <Riddell> jjesse: meinproc only does SYSTEM entities, xsltproc also does xinclude stuff
[03:12] <jjesse> and from early conversation we use meinproc on kubuntu docs correct?
[03:12] <Riddell> we do
[03:13] <Riddell> we could change the kubuntu docs to xsltproc but that would also mean working out how to do the index.cache.bz2 and splitting up into individual HTML files by hand
[03:13] <jjesse> i'm slowly learning, i have the doc book manual and subversion guide to read this weekend :)
[03:13] <jjesse> Riddell: that sounds like a lot of work
[03:14] <Riddell> so unless there's any actual advantage in using xincludes (besides it being a more proper way to do it) it would be nice if the ones kubuntu also uses could use SYSTEM entities
[03:14] <Riddell> docbook manual tells you about the docbook language, but doesn't tell you a great deal about the tools used (which is the where docbook troubles begin in my experience)
[03:17] <jjesse> is there a place that i can learn about the tools?
[03:17] <Riddell> dunno, maybe xsltproc has a homepage
[03:18] <Riddell> probably xincludes does too and there's probably lots of web pages for xslt for all the good they'll do you
[03:18] <Riddell> meinproc doesn't have a web page as far as I know, I should make one
[03:18] <jjesse> i was trying to look for one on meinproc couldnt find one, i'll spend some time diggign for xincludes and xslt
[04:18] <jjesse> Riddell:  ping?
[04:18] <Riddell> jjesse: honk
[04:19] <jjesse> Riddell: is there a kubuntu kdedoctools package that would include checkXML and other tools that i can use w/ quanta+
[04:20] <Riddell> jjesse: don't think so
[04:20] <Riddell> not sure what quanta needs for docbook
[04:27] <jjesse> ok i'll keep looking into it
[06:58] <mdke> Riddell, are you subscribed to the ML? i think its best if we email about this build business, i can't spend much time on irc at the moment cos of work
[06:58] <Riddell> mdke: I am now
[06:59] <mdke> Riddell, cool thanks, mailing now
[11:54] <LaserJock> anybody hear from Unfgiven lately?
[11:54] <mdke> i've never heard from him/her
[11:56] <LaserJock> hmm, ok. I was just wondering about the Ubuntu Packaging Guide. He said it would be a couple days on the 5th
[11:58] <LaserJock> I found a .pdf that was going to be in a Universe package but that's all
[11:59] <mdke> LaserJock, you asked other MOTUs?
[12:00] <LaserJock> about Unfgiven? He seems to have disappeared. No one has talked to him for a couple weeks
[12:00] <mdke> about the guide