[10:13] <Pygi> hi hi
[10:14] <fabbione> hey pi
[10:14] <Pygi> o, I've got a new nick :)
[10:17] <Pygi> I see you got ubuntu bot in here
[10:20] <troy> good day folks
[10:20] <Pygi> night' troy :)
[10:20] <fabbione> no bot
[10:20] <fabbione> it's just a irc log
[10:21] <Pygi> ah
[10:21] <fabbione> logs are on people.u.c/~fabbione/irclogs
[10:21] <fabbione> the first will appear in about 20 minutes or so
[10:26] <troy> fabbione: I've been meaning to mention this: I originally intended this channel to be a general discussion and support channel for server topics
[10:26] <fabbione> troy: discussion ok .. support -> #ubuntu
[10:26] <troy> why?
[10:27] <fabbione> otherwise we can say goodbye to this channel for too much noise in a day or two
[10:27] <fabbione> because the "server" software is the same that's in the archive
[10:27] <fabbione> and support can be done on #ubuntu
[10:27] <fabbione> there is no difference from any other package
[10:27] <fabbione> they are just package
[10:27] <fabbione> +s
[10:28] <troy> I didn't really intend to become a devel channel - was thinking along the lines of #ubuntu is to #ubuntu-devel as #ubuntu-server is to #ubuntu-server-devel or somesuch -- it's pretty much standard in most freenode projects
[10:28] <troy> #kubuntu gets it's own support channel
[10:28] <fabbione> nah
[10:29] <fabbione> trust me.. too many channels.. too much confusion
[10:29] <fabbione> let's keep the resources to run a project to minimum
[10:29] <fabbione> if we need to scale
[10:29] <fabbione> we can
[10:29] <fabbione> that's the important thing
[10:29] <fabbione> but spreading too few people on too many channels (irc, mailing lists, etc)
[10:29] <troy> I'm a big fan of dedicated channels for topics as the need arises
[10:30] <fabbione> it's not productive imho
[10:30] <fabbione> troy: that's why we can start we a minimum and scale if required
[10:30] <fabbione> we also need to keep s/n ratio at a good rate
[10:30] <troy> when #kde became too full in ... 1999 maybe, they split into #kde and #kde-devel
[10:30] <troy> the same should happen here
[10:30] <fabbione> exactly
[10:30] <fabbione> if we will have too much traffic we will split
[10:31] <troy> at the moment, we can do support in this channel without serious SNR problems
[10:31] <fabbione> as it is now let's keep it mainly for devel
[10:31] <fabbione> troy: we already saw 2/3 users coming here asking for general support
[10:31] <fabbione> like: my nmap doesn't map
[10:31] <fabbione> that's clearly not -server related
[10:31] <fabbione> it will be difficult to tell people #ubuntu for this.. -server for that
[10:32] <fabbione> IF there will be a need for a dedicate server support channel
[10:32] <troy> fabbione: of course there will be overlap, just as there is between #ubuntu and #kubuntu
[10:32] <fabbione> we will move development on -server-dev
[10:32] <fabbione> and keep this one open for support
[10:32] <troy> in the meantime, lets not shun people coming in here for support
[10:33] <troy> because if I was looking for support for configuring apache, the SNR regarding desktop issues in #ubuntu would turn me away
[10:33] <troy> and the people in here would be much more likely to pick up the question (less noise)
[10:33] <fabbione> yes i agree, but here nobody has time to do support
[10:33] <fabbione> at least i don't
[10:34] <fabbione> and considering the amount of people in here
[10:34] <fabbione> it's morelikely he can get an answer on #ubuntu than here
[10:34] <troy> like 6 of which are active, yes. but this channel is all of... 3 weeks old?
[10:36] <troy> fabbione: are you sponsored by anyone to do linux work?
[10:36] <fabbione> troy: i work for Canonical
[10:36] <fabbione> <- fabbione@ubuntu.com
[10:37] <troy> fabbione: I understand your stance now - I'm not used to having paid people having to budget their time in IRC channels
[10:37] <fabbione> troy: ehhe
[10:37] <troy> that said, I'd like to provide community support here when it's appropriate, and when I can
[10:38] <fabbione> troy: i am not against it
[10:38] <fabbione> don't get me wrong
[10:39] <fabbione> i don't want this chan to turn into #ubuntu2
[10:39] <troy> but you are thinking about providing support in a more official capacity, which requires more people covering more time than the non-obligation varieties of community support
[10:39] <troy> ahhh, not a literal :)
[10:39] <fabbione> #ubuntu2 -> yet another #ubuntu support channel
[10:39] <troy> right right
[10:40] <fabbione> troy: exactly.. that's why #ubuntu is somehow more appropriate.. because given the S/N ratio. it still has tons of more users that can actually help
[10:40] <fabbione> i can't be on IRC 24/7
[10:40] <fabbione> neither can you
[10:40] <fabbione> or others
[10:41] <troy> no, but we are not obligated to be
[10:41] <fabbione> no
[10:41] <fabbione> we are not
[10:41] <troy> I put in the topic: for general support see #ubuntu or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat for other channels
[10:41] <fabbione> but if you turn the chan in support, people will be disappointed because it's still a bit too empty ;)
[10:41] <troy> that's the way I see it
[10:41] <troy> meh, it'll grow
[10:41] <fabbione> yeah it will
[10:42] <fabbione> as soon as i can announce the overall
[10:42] <fabbione> that's all stalled on the only list admin that unfortunatly is without inet connectivity atm
[10:42] <troy> I posted a note about it on ubuntuforums, and two or three people showed up from there
[10:43] <troy> that was maybe... a week ago or so -- also, added it to wiki list of channels
[10:44] <troy> at that point I was operating on the advice of JRiddel (I wonder if I spelled his nick right)
[10:47] <fabbione> riddel yeah :)
[10:47] <fabbione> that's ok
[10:51] <fabbione> good night guys
[10:51] <fabbione> cya tomorrow
[10:52] <troy> cheers fabbione