[02:51] <jbailey> JaneW: I swear I need an ical feed for these things. =)
[02:51] <JaneW> jbailey: :)
[02:51] <sivang> jbailey: cool
[02:51] <jbailey> Somewhere after "finish the Hurd"
[02:52] <JaneW> jbailey: I see you have no specs, because you have gone all businesey on us...
[02:52] <JaneW> jbailey: I hope you are in a suit
[02:53] <jbailey> JaneW: My mom used to do that when she worked at home.  Put on makeup, heels, etc.
[02:53] <JaneW> jbailey: lol
[02:53] <Treenaks> JaneW: so what you're saying is that you're ircing naked?
[02:53] <Treenaks> uh
[02:53] <Treenaks> jbailey: 
[02:53] <JaneW> Treenaks: no cos I am at the office today :P
[02:54] <JaneW> Treenaks: tomorrow maybe ;)
[02:54] <sivang> people, behave ! :)
[02:55] <jbailey> sivang: We are.  The juicy stuff wouldn't happen on a logged channel ;)
[02:55] <Treenaks> ;)
[02:55] <sivang> jbailey: can I order my ticket then ? ;-)
[02:56] <pitti> hi
[02:56] <sivang> ok, 4 minutes to run to restrooms and come back. *snap*
[02:58] <sivang> back
[02:58] <Treenaks> that was 2 min
[02:59] <sivang> right, well, I did it quick :)
[02:59] <JaneW> hi all
[02:59] <pitti> Hi JaneW, how was the volleyball?
[03:00] <JaneW> our team won, they are playing in the finals now, without me... :/
[03:00] <JaneW> firstly does anyone want to comment on the summary spreadsheet?
[03:00] <pitti> congrats
[03:00] <ogra> then they'll surely loose
[03:00] <JaneW> will it end up being useful or just a waste of time...?
[03:00] <sivang> JaneW: how is marilize doing? she seemed eager to play :-)
[03:00] <pitti> JaneW: it was still a bit unordered
[03:00] <pitti> JaneW: but veeery colorful :)
[03:00] <fabbione> hi
[03:00] <JaneW> pitti: ok I fixed that laready, will be better this week...
[03:00] <pitti> nice, thanks
[03:01] <JaneW> are the colours good or bad? I like colour coding stuff
[03:01] <pitti> JaneW: oh, that's just fine
[03:01] <sivang> JaneW: do you maintain an agenda for the status meetings?
[03:01] <jbailey> JaneW: That's the one you sent to u-d-a?
[03:01] <pitti> JaneW: eventually I would like to see this page autogenerated from lp
[03:01] <JaneW> jbailey: yes
[03:01] <JaneW> pitti: so would I!
[03:01] <pitti> JaneW: it could take the status from the whiteboard of the specs
[03:01] <Kamion> ok, mdz will not be able to make this meeting due to Thanksgiving, so he asked JaneW and me to run it
[03:01] <JaneW> we are not sure if that will be possible, but if we get the stutus updates fed in we should be able to
[03:02] <JaneW> I thought if I can get to a design that works we can show that to the LP team and ask for it from LP
[03:02] <Kamion> we're missing daniels, jdub, krstic
[03:02] <JaneW> sivang: yes the agenda is the same each week, we run through the group and get stutus updates in a set format, as per e-mail yesterday
[03:02] <Kamion> it's late Australian time, and krstic has other commitments, so I doubt we'll get any more
[03:02] <fabbione> Kamion: and BenC.. he is thanksgiving too
[03:03] <JaneW> daniels won;t be here, he sent appologies and a breif update to me
[03:03] <Kamion> fabbione: I'm just looking at /names at the moment
[03:03] <JaneW> not sure if jdub is intended to attend these../
[03:03] <JaneW> ?
[03:03] <Kamion> JaneW: probably not, he isn't distro team
[03:03] <JaneW> nod
[03:03] <dholbach> i pinged him, just in case... but don't know if he's awake
[03:04] <sivang> Kamion: you mean, he's no longer on distro-team ?
[03:04] <Keybuk> sivang: jdub never has been
[03:04] <sivang> Keybuk: ah :) ok
[03:04] <Kamion> so, we'll run through people in alphabetical order by nick, per JaneW's request; please give a short summary for each spec you have assigned (you should have this pre-prepared)
[03:04] <infinity> JaneW : I object to being at the top of the spreadsheet, otherwise it was fine. :)
[03:04] <pitti> sivang: he's the Canonical motivation team :)
[03:04] <Kamion> BenC is on vacation
[03:04] <sivang> pitti: hehe, cool
[03:04] <Kamion> daniels sent apologies
[03:04] <Kamion> dholbach: ?
[03:05] <infinity> Kamion : alphabetical by nick, or by LP username (since that's how the spreadsheet is ordered)?
[03:05] <JaneW> infinity you aren't anymore ;P
[03:05] <dholbach> power-management-configuration: mjg59 came up with a new plan (dbus authentication mechanism for restricting the use of power management functionalities); I'll nail down the missing bits for writing the spec together with him (along with time estimates); together with hughsie, I'll discuss the UI ideas we had.
[03:05] <dholbach> inclusion-of-docs: in my SleeplessNightBOF last night, I packaged new ubuntu-docs from docteam's SVN (didn't upload yet), fixed some bugs in it (the doc team moved some directories around and didn't register there new docs in Rosetta), however, there are files missing still. i will have a session with mdke tonight, to get things right and regular updates going. (although translations will have to wait). 
[03:05] <JaneW> BenC is forst now
[03:05] <dholbach> best-practices-bugs: we made some additions to the HelpingWithBugs pages and we're running the HUG DAY momentarily, which is just great.
[03:05] <JaneW> first even
[03:05] <Kamion> infinity: let's do it by nick this time or I'll get lost.
[03:05] <dholbach> work: this week (today and tomorrow), c++ allocator change, BUG DAY, writing down a11y meeting notes, ubuntu-docs updating
[03:05] <dholbach> work: next week: gnome-power spec'ing, more c++ allocator change, a11y spec'ing with hno73, getting the wiki up to scratch, bug triage (of course), motu mentoring
[03:05] <JaneW> infinity: from this week it is ordered by nick
[03:05] <Diziet> Firefox: finished merging, not everything works right yet.  I will pick this up again in another few days after I've got some other stuff out of the way.
[03:05] <Diziet> AutomatedTesting: discussions in Debian going reasonably well; will carry on probably for another week.
[03:05] <Diziet> Launchpad SSLCertificateAuthentication: some progress made yesterday; this will fail or succeed by tomorrow
[03:05] <Diziet> DeveloperDocumentation: I will pick this up next week I think
[03:05] <Diziet> Email and bug backlog: horrendous
[03:05] <Diziet> Other goals: not started
[03:05] <Kamion> dholbach: thanks
[03:05] <Diziet> Sorry, was I premature ?
[03:06] <Kamion> no, that's ok
[03:06] <Kamion> Diziet: is firefox working well enough now that it can be left alone for a few days, or do other people need to prod it?
[03:06] <JaneW> dholbach: were you done?
[03:06] <dholbach> JaneW: yes, i was
[03:06] <Diziet> Yes.  You can use it to browse web pages and I think you can even build against it.  If not then I'll fix it.
[03:06] <pitti> ffox works well enough for me at  least
[03:07] <Kamion> great, thanks
[03:07] <Kamion> doko: ?
[03:07] <pitti> has still some itches, but not too bad
[03:07] <doko> Kamion: please later, have still to summarize
[03:07] <seb128> firefox works fine, not the same for stuff using it :)
[03:07] <Kamion> doko: ok, we'll do you last
[03:07] <Kamion> fabbione: ?
[03:07] <fabbione> ok i am next....
[03:07] <fabbione> * server-candy: progressing: MD5 checker core is ready (both server and client side). Client frontends need to be done. other stuff is waiting to complete the MD5 task. Community is growing slowly because we are still missing the mailing list and some kind of official announcement that i would like to do when the infrastructure is ready.
[03:07] <fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: some pkgs have been already updated. others are being prepared.
[03:07] <fabbione> * installer-volume-management: partman-auto is ready and uploaded, merging partman-auto-lvm as we speak.
[03:07] <fabbione> * probe-for-root-filesystem: blocked.
[03:07] <fabbione> * boot-from-usb: blocked.
[03:07] <fabbione> * misc: monday have been out handling CD around (very positive). Dec 15th i will be on the other side of Denmark to give a talk in a company. working on merges and a bit of bug triaging.
[03:07] <fabbione> * next week: complete installer-volume-management and do server-candy work, together with merges.
[03:08] <pitti> blocked by?
[03:08] <mvo> apparently the pyhton binding of ff are borken right now :/
[03:08] <fabbione> pitti: blocks are tracked in LP
[03:08] <Kamion> yes, please list what you're blocked by so we have a record of who should be nagged
[03:08] <fabbione> Kamion: ok will do for the next time, but mainly is the new udev stuff
[03:09] <Keybuk> that only blocks the boot-time side of it
[03:09] <Keybuk> it doesn't block the modifications to d-i
[03:09] <fabbione> Keybuk: and testing
[03:09] <Kamion> Keybuk: it's hard to test d-i changes correctly when the installed system doesn't work right; I concur with that being a blocker
[03:09] <fabbione> i don't like blind modifications if i can avoid them is better
[03:10] <Kamion> JaneW: go ahead
[03:10] <JaneW> ok this from daniels: done: finished RC2.
[03:10] <JaneW> blocked: nothing anymore
[03:10] <JaneW> tomorrow: fixing driver FTBFSes
[03:10] <JaneW> next week: on leave
[03:10] <JaneW> that's it
[03:10] <Keybuk> terse
[03:10] <infinity> JaneW : Note that the driver FTBFSs have become a large enough issue that I'm fixing them tonight.
[03:11] <infinity> (They're listed in my update...)
[03:11] <JaneW> infinity: ok
[03:11] <Kamion> we need to get something out of daniels on dbus-restarts at some point
[03:11] <Kamion> is anyone else involved with that?
[03:11] <pitti> uh, that's not really something for us, I guess
[03:11] <pitti> that spec is more like a proposal for upstream rather than a dapper spec
[03:11] <Kamion> I see; let's move on
[03:12] <Kamion> infinity: ?
[03:12] <pitti> upstream is completely against doing it
[03:12] <seb128> Kamion: as pitti said, we don't have a lot to do for that
[03:12] <Diziet> I thought we needed it for various stuff ?  And upstream are on crack.
[03:12] <JaneW> one sec
[03:12] <pitti> Diziet: right, but we can't patch against the world
[03:12] <JaneW> can the ppl who were listed as needing further discussions with mdz please indicate if those have actually happened yet AND
[03:12] <infinity> reducing-duplication: ongoing effort, as always, this last week saw good progress on kicking out multiple versions of libdb
[03:12] <infinity> initramfs-*: still waiting on keybuk to release his lock on initramfs for hardware activation
[03:12] <infinity> usplash-*: tested vga16fb changes to use a lower resolution, muddled with assembly in syslinux to make the same change for CD booting, need more testing
[03:12] <infinity> splash-down: Have a reasonable working implementation, will need to ping maintainers of display managers to hook things in correctly and coordinate uploads
[03:12] <infinity> general: helped with kernel security updates last week (l-r-m and linux-meta), need to get a new l-r-m and linux-meta in this week for the new kernel, spent plenty of time babysitting various components to make modular X buildable, currently polishing off most of that tonight, buildd tasks have been reasonably onerous this last week.
[03:12] <JaneW> let us know if you have a new need to set up time to talk to him
[03:12] <doko> infinity: any estimate for subversion?
[03:13] <ogra> infinity, ping me as well for ltsp display manager  please
[03:13] <infinity> doko : Mail me for SVN, if I have the reminder in my INBOX, I'll do it first thing tomorrow.
[03:13] <Kamion> JaneW: we're now part-way through people, so perhaps we can go back at the end and look through that
[03:13] <JaneW> Kamion: sure, but if the rest will in the mean time..?
[03:13] <Kamion> ok
[03:14] <Kamion> jdub's away, so I'm next
[03:14] <Keybuk> didn't we just miss doko?
[03:14] <Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Making good progress with partman.deb; I expect to upload this early next week. UI work not started.
[03:14] <jbailey> Or I
[03:14] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-bootloader: First cut at parted parseable output patch done and sent upstream; I think it'll probably get merged, but if not I have a fallback plan. No other progress. Not blocked.
[03:14] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Tollef's working on factoring out the keymapper widget; otherwise no progress.
[03:14] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-*, ue-*: No other progress. Semi-blocked on an svn2bzr bug that prevents me from importing the Guadalinex repository (sent to niemeyer).
[03:14] <Kamion> cd-bootloader: CD timeout restored. Upgraded to syslinux 3.11. Sent call for gfxboot testing to ubuntu-users.
[03:14] <Kamion> cd-build-process: Single-architecture rebuilds implemented.
[03:14] <Kamion> misc: Implemented installer rescue mode infrastructure to allow implementation of MD5 checker client side for server-candy. Did the big apt-setup merge, though not tested yet.
[03:14] <Kamion> jbailey: oh, sorry, I missed you
[03:15] <jbailey> Kamion: I'll go after, no big deal.
[03:15] <Mithrandir> Kamion: the keymapper widget is actually done now, but not uploaded.
[03:15] <pitti> Keybuk: doko wanted to be last
[03:15] <Kamion> of my meetings with mdz, I still need to have a chat about merge progress, CD blockers has become obsolete, Kubuntu CD builds has been done by deciding to bring Riddell into the cdimage group, and we haven't had the syncs discussion yet
[03:15] <Kamion> (the last needs elmo too)
[03:16] <Kamion> Mithrandir: in your bzr repository? if so, I'll have a look
[03:16] <Mithrandir> Kamion: no, not pushed.  I haven't that set up, really.  Will fix that
[03:16] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[03:16] <Kamion> jbailey: go ahead, then
[03:16] <jbailey> Specs: none, Nyaah
[03:16] <jbailey> * glibc: Patch in hand for sparc, hppa still needs love.
[03:16] <jbailey> After that: libc6-i386 for amd64, update to 2.3.6 and locale munging.  Those are just blocked on it working everywhere again.
[03:16] <jbailey> * linux-kernel-headers: Update to 2.6.15 coming RSN (partially started)
[03:16] <jbailey> * klibc/initramfs-tools: I'm happy with the hand off, and don't consider myself responsible for them anymore.
[03:16] <jbailey> I looked through and noticed yesterday that I still have grub asssigned to me for merging, I'll try to grab that tomorrow.
[03:17] <Kamion> jbailey: are we likely to merge glibc/l-k-h with Debian, or is that stalled for dapper?
[03:17] <JaneW> keybuk:?
[03:17] <jbailey> Kamion: Glibc will get merged as part of 2.3.6.  l-k-h isn't common with Debian.  I'm working on that on the Debian side.
[03:17] <Kamion> all right
[03:17] <Keybuk> JaneW: I was gonna wait until the questions stopped :)
[03:18] <Keybuk> udev-roadmap: mostly done.  rcS script needs polish and the whole thing needs a bit more testing.  grepmap is to be kept, and updated for input subsystem and libsane.  still got to sort out udeb.  waiting on 2.6.15-4
[03:18] <Keybuk> hardware-activation: no network or sound-card rules yet.  Kamion found a sweet way to replace cardmgr.
[03:18] <Keybuk> streamlined-boot: bootchart updated to 0.9.  readahead still todo.  mostly waiting on udev-roadmap to see what different that makes.
[03:18] <Keybuk> network-manager: largely no progress, discovered it doesn't seem to bring up wifi interfaces until a user logs in.  blocked on glibc dns patch.  might not be doable anyway.
[03:18] <Keybuk> misc: still to merge sysvinit, otherwise done 25.  found bug with dpkg's new conffile handing that I'll fix.  module-init-tools needs update to latest upstream and a patch that could break depmod (inputmap) on < 2.6.15
[03:18] <Keybuk> plans: finish up udev, have 1,000 bugs filed against me for everything I break, fix those, move on to streamlined-boot and network-manager
[03:19] <Kamion> if we could get the new udev world order in tomorrow so that we can have time to settle everything before Flight CD 2 becomes urgent, that would be much appreciated
[03:19] <infinity> Agreed.
[03:19] <Kamion> however I don't know how practical that is while BenC's on vacation
[03:19] <jbailey> Kamion: Timing for flight 2?
[03:19] <Riddell> is there a target date or flight 2?
[03:19] <Keybuk> yeah, with a good headwind and fair weather, I don't see why it couldn't go in today or tomorrow, except for the kernel block
[03:19] <Kamion> ideally, Flight CD releases are two weeks apart
[03:20] <Kamion> in some cases that may need to slip
[03:20] <Kamion> s/some/many/ quite probably :-/
[03:20] <Keybuk> it'll break some stuff, all known, but the major interp-dep components are almost ready
[03:20] <Kamion> but theoretically, doing Flight 2 next Thursday/Friday would be perfect
[03:20] <infinity> Keybuk : Given lrm work, your work, and BenC's new kernel upload required, I'd call Monday a good target for having all the new kernel/udev stuff settle.
[03:21] <Keybuk> agreed, the kernel is only a relatively soft blocker
[03:21] <Keybuk> I can upload udev/initramfs/etc. without it ... it'll just break a few people
[03:21] <Kamion> if that can be decoupled, all the better
[03:21] <Kamion> ok, krstic and mdz absent
[03:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ?
[03:21] <Mithrandir> livecd-performance: groundwork done, I can now get useful data out of the system.  Need to decide on further action to actually improve boot times.  Also, will get it into the default live cd  (togglable with a boot switch or similar) and call for testing.
[03:21] <Keybuk> and I can alleviate that with a u-d-a announce saying what's expected to break
[03:21] <Mithrandir> embedded-ubuntu: I discovered that I got this spec last night, hence no status update on it.
[03:22] <Mithrandir> network-authentication: Lots of interest around the spec, no work done on it so far.
[03:22] <Mithrandir> other: no progress on specs.  I've spent a fair amount of time helping Colin with cdebconf custom widgets, those still need to be uploaded.
[03:22] <Mithrandir> Next week: review embedded-ubuntu, Try to get media-integrity-check unblocked (so help Colin with the new syslinux, if he needs help) and implemented.  Go through the network-authentication spec and see what steps are needed to get it working, then start implementation.  Random other chaff which shows up.
[03:22] <Mithrandir> Blocked on: Colin for newer syslinux, volunteering to help.
[03:22] <Mithrandir> Rant: It's very annoying when priorites are shifted around without any kind of notification.  The live-cd-performance spec was high priority, hence I spent time on it, now it's suddenly medium priority without anybody having told me.  I was also made approved for embedded-ubuntu, without any notification.
[03:22] <Mithrandir> Until we use LP all the time and therefore see those kinds of things, notifications are needed.  They probably still will be needed then.
[03:23] <Kamion> I agree, we're well out of the time at UBZ when we were looking at our specs pages every day
[03:23] <JaneW> Mithrandir: I will try to keep the spreadhseet statuses up to date
[03:23] <JaneW> the colours will help to identify changes
[03:23] <Mithrandir> JaneW: spreadsheet statuses don't show up in my inbox. :-)
[03:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'll chat to you about syslinux later; we have the simple menu in syslinux 3 now, but gfxboot is still to come
[03:24] <Kamion> JaneW: spreadsheets are far too hard to diff for changes
[03:24] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, cool.  I just need the menu stuff in order to be unblocked.
[03:24] <sivang> is it only me that has openoffice borked on his dapper? :)
[03:24] <pitti> JaneW: I'd rather get an email if something on my assigned/subscribed specs changes...
[03:24] <pitti> JaneW: just like wiki change emails
[03:24] <seb128> sivang: not the place
[03:24] <ogra> pitti++
[03:24] <Kamion> e-mail or IRC notifications about something being assigned to you would be appropriate
[03:24] <Mithrandir> Kamion: but I'll be happy to help out with other stuff that blocks you too.
[03:24] <Kamion> Mithrandir: thanks
[03:24] <sivang> seb128: sure, sorry
[03:25] <seb128> pitti: yeah, notification would be nice :)
[03:25] <JaneW> if I change statuses or assignees I will send out notificatio e-mails to parties concerened...
[03:25] <seb128> JaneW: thanks
[03:25] <Kamion> JaneW: thanks, that will be very helpful :-)
[03:25] <Kamion> mvo: you're up
[03:25] <Mithrandir> JaneW++
[03:25] <ogra> JaneW, that should really be a launchpad addon ...
[03:25] <mvo> Did: 
[03:25] <mvo> * automatic removal of dependencies spec bounty prepared (got deferred in the end)  [Automatic removal of unused dependencies] 
[03:25] <ogra> so you dont have extra work through it 
[03:25] <mvo> * pyhton-apt improvments (needed for unattended pkg upgrades, g-a-i, cmd-not-found magic)
[03:25] <mvo> * unattended upgrades script ready (in python-apt, need to be integrated into the APT::Periodic system  [Unattended package upgrades] 
[03:25] <mvo> * gdebi (direct deb install tool) almost ready for upload into archive (needs new python-apt first) [Support for packages by
[03:25] <mvo>   third parties in external repos] 
[03:25] <mvo> * cmd-not-found magic work with zyga (prototype in   pyhton ready, misses still some stuff) ["Sugest packages to install to proivde missing programs"] 
[03:25] <mvo> * tried to make apt more smart about failed network    sources [Default apt sources.list configuration] -> might be used for [Improved handling of APT   cdrom: sources as well] 
[03:26] <mvo> * other goals: not started
[03:26] <mvo> Will do:
[03:26] <mvo> * upload new apt/python-apt/gdebi + all depenencies (abi break)
[03:26] <mvo> * integrate unattended upgrades script into the APT::Periodic system
[03:26] <mvo> * 3rd party packages channel work
[03:26] <mvo> * use hide-admin-tools for update-notifier
[03:27] <seb128> mvo: hide admin tools for update notifier? what is that?
[03:27] <Kamion> mvo: let me know if/whenever you need installer-context testing of your apt changes
[03:27] <pitti> I'll come to that later, see my u-d mail
[03:27] <mvo> seb128: don't start update-notifier if the user can't run synaptic/apt/update-manager
[03:27] <seb128> oh, k
[03:28] <ogra> me ? 
[03:28] <Kamion> ogra: yes
[03:28] <mvo> Kamion: I'm preparing a mail to deity@l.d.o first explaining my idea and the patch. it's unfortunately not a trivial change :/
[03:28] <ogra> * thin-client-sound: updated the spec (pending approval), started adopting the proof of concept in real code in my local bzr branch, discussed changes to gstreamer with pitti, updated the spec accordingly
[03:28] <ogra> * thin-client-local-devices: started some initial tests, ltspfs/ltspfsd cvs version uploaded and build, binary is in the archive
[03:28] <ogra> * thin-client-memory-usage: updated the spec (pending approval), did some further testing
[03:28] <ogra> * thin-client-faster-startup: updated the spec (pending approval)
[03:28] <ogra> * gnome-screensaver-default-image: started working on the package
[03:28] <mvo> Kamion: but thanks :)
[03:28] <ogra> * last weeks goals: 3 of 4 specs texts finished (pending approval), ltsp bzr archive is set up, renamed to ltsp/dapper on mdz's request, assembled a etherboot based client (not tested yet) to examine the etherboot problems often reported on #edubuntu, xscreensaver not completely finished yet (package ready but did not take the time to fully test it yet), edubuntu CD daily builds started, liveCD fs requested from lamont, should be ready the next da
[03:28] <ogra> ys
[03:28] <ogra> * next week plans: specs specs specs ... finishing the thin-client-local device spec and getting the rest approved, make the mdz requested changes to ldm in my bzr branch, implement the thin-client sound spec in my bzr branch, etherboot testing/fixing with the newly assembled etherboot client and writing a howto for edubuntu users, test the first liveCD ,finish up with xscreensaver (demote most of it (except shipped hacks) to universe), check chan
[03:28] <ogra> ges to gnome-screensaver lock dialog with upstream to make it look like the breezy one, get gnome-screensaver to main, fix merge bugs, preparing edubuntu for flight 2
[03:29] <sivang> (At least ATM)
[03:29] <Kamion> ogra: are we in a position where you can get enough testing together at short notice to do an Edubuntu Flight CD?
[03:30] <Kamion> I won't be able to help this time :)
[03:30] <ogra> Kamion, i can do most testing here, but i'll ping users on #edubuntu and the ML
[03:30] <Diziet> ogra: thinclient-local-devices> Does that mean you're implementing already ?  Or is this part of the drafting ?
[03:30] <ogra> the only missing bit is ppc install over here 
[03:30] <Kamion> bearing in mind that the window of opportunity is generally quite small at this stage of the release cycle
[03:30] <ogra> Diziet, its still drafting ...
[03:30] <Diziet> Right.
[03:30] <Kamion> powerpc's still broken anyway unless the LTSP bug that broke the Edubuntu powerpc breezy release has been fixed
[03:31] <ogra> Diziet, and it will depend on the dbus changes
[03:31] <Diziet> dbus> Quite so.
[03:31] <ogra> Kamion, yes, but live should be fine 
[03:31] <Kamion> ogra: so ltspfs/ltspfsd are just proof-of-concepts?
[03:31] <ogra> Kamion, nope, we planned to use them, but upstream will have to do changes
[03:31] <ogra> according to my tests
[03:32] <Kamion> ok, thanks
[03:32] <ogra> i'm in contact with scott balneaves who is upstream
[03:32] <Kamion> JaneW: what's the word on home-user-backup, for sivang?
[03:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: they seemed to be unfinished code, according to Scott?
[03:32] <JaneW> sivang is here
[03:32] <ogra> Mithrandir, he promised to have all changes in before UVF
[03:32] <Mithrandir> ogra: sounds good
[03:32] <Diziet> Yes, but is home-user-backup going to be in dapper ?  (Please?)
[03:33] <Kamion> JaneW: 14:29  * sivang is assigned to home-user-backup, can I be excused as this spec seems not to be targetted for dapper?
[03:33] <Kamion> sivang: hmm, it seems to be targeted to dapper in launchpad at the moment; please stick around
[03:33] <JaneW> Kamion: it's sivang's goal, and we are tracking it as medium
[03:33] <JaneW> sivang: comments?
[03:34] <Diziet> I think it might have been me that changed the Target to Release because it looked like it had just been forgotten.  Was that wrong of me ?
[03:35] <ogra> i think thats a mdz job normally
[03:35] <Diziet> Oh.
[03:35] <JaneW> Kamion: it is, has he looked at the table recently?
[03:35] <Kamion> JaneW: ok, let's talk about it when we get round to sivang in the list
[03:35] <Kamion> pitti: ?
[03:35] <pitti> first, non-blocked specs:
[03:35] <pitti> automatic-printer-conf: DONE: cups 1.2beta in dapper (needed twice the expected time, though); PLAN: add dbus patch, change g-v-m to respond to hotplug events; ETA: 1 day
[03:35] <JaneW> it took us a week or 2 after UBZ to work through the list, still not 100%
[03:35] <pitti> language-pack-vs-support: No coding action from my side; filed bug against installer for required string change, coordinate with mvo about langselector changes
[03:36] <pitti> general stuff next week: continue the ReducingDuplication campaign, finish merges, the usual chores (main inclusion reviews, pending security updates, bug triage); I will merge libgphoto2 and do the udev adaptions, but I need to work with somebody who has a scanner to be able to do libsane for new udev.
[03:36] <pitti> specs with blocks:
[03:36] <pitti> gstreamer-audio-backend: ALSA 1.10 is in dapper, still BLOCK on gstreamer 0.10 for creating the alsadmixsink
[03:36] <pitti> hide-admin-tools-to-users: no actions since last week; BLOCK: sudo logging decision, see u-d mail
[03:36] <pitti> automated-problem-reports: BLOCK: approval from Keybuk, would appreciate opinions from other people, too (elmo, Kamion, mdz) since this is very intrusive
[03:36] <pitti> inactive stuff:
[03:36] <Kamion> pitti: eta on gstreamer 0.10?
[03:36] <pitti> firewall: carstenh proposed bounty; no coding from my side, just review; no plans
[03:36] <pitti> rosetta-firefox-support, langpacks-desktopfiles, pmount-uber-alles: no change since last week, no time
[03:36] <pitti> mdz discussions: had none, would like to have one about sudo stuff (prefered: TB meeting) and one about automated-problem-reports
[03:36] <pitti> Kamion: December, I think
[03:37] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, 11 days according to #gstreamer
[03:37] <pitti> does anybody have an usb scanner/
[03:37] <pitti> ?
[03:37] <Kamion> pitti: if you've got a decision to present, TB might be a good place to run through automated-problem-reports too
[03:37] <pitti> Kamion: right, that's whatI wrote
[03:37] <mvo> pitti: I can get my hands on a usb-scanner
[03:37] <seb128> pitti: I've a snapscan 1212
[03:38] <pitti> ok, I'll get to you for testing then, thanks
[03:38] <seb128> np
[03:38] <ogra> i have a canon lide20 here
[03:38] <ogra> (or 30 ... not sure)
[03:38] <jbailey> pitti: I have an epson 1240u
[03:38] <pitti> wow, overwhelming
[03:39] <Mithrandir> I have a canon lide something which needs the genesys driver from the experimental sane CVS.
[03:39] <Seveas> we have a winner :)
[03:39] <pitti> right now I rated automated-problem-reports as 'might not get implemented' since it's such a big one
[03:39] <pitti> and I need the spec settled very soon
[03:39] <Kamion> ok, thanks pitti
[03:39] <Kamion> Riddell: ?
[03:40] <Riddell> kubuntu-roadmap-dapper: packaging KDE 3.5, some modules blocked on subversion upload
[03:40] <Riddell> kubuntu-documentation: settings up documentation for dapper to work properly with KDE
[03:40] <Riddell> next week: finishing KDE 3.5, tidy up KDE transition and merge, simplify-kde and hopefully start kubuntu-system-tools, sort out bounty for kubuntu-package-manager
[03:40] <Kamion> Riddell: if you're not making any more changes to kubuntu-express, punt it up to pending-approval and I'll take a look at it
[03:41] <Riddell> Kamion: ok
[03:41] <Kamion> Riddell: should kubuntu-documentation be assigned to you? I see it's currently assignee-less
[03:41] <Kamion> as are a bunch of Kubuntu specs
[03:42] <Riddell> Kamion: I'm not sure, I'm doing the technical parts of it, the community are doing the actual writing parts
[03:42] <zyga> pitti: I can keep helping with desktop files, just give me directions
[03:42] <pitti> zyga: that'll be great
[03:42] <Kamion> hmm, right; we need somebody to take responsibility for driving it and making sure it gets finished to our satisfaction
[03:42] <dholbach> Riddell: maybe we can look into the docs stuff together - buildsystem-wise
[03:43] <Riddell> Kamion: jjesse and me take that responsibility
[03:43] <Riddell> dholbach: yes, see the mailing list yesterday for discussions on it
[03:43] <Kamion> JaneW: can you record that in Launchpad somehow?
[03:43] <dholbach> Riddell: which one?
[03:44] <Riddell> dholbach: meinproc discussion
[03:44] <JaneW> Kamion: what?
[03:44] <dholbach> Riddell: does that still refer to docs? if so, i'll do that
[03:45] <Kamion> JaneW: 14:43 < Riddell> Kamion: jjesse and me take that responsibility
[03:45] <Riddell> dholbach: it does
[03:45] <dholbach> Riddell: ok
[03:45] <Riddell> I'm happy to be assigned to kubuntu-documentation
[03:45] <JaneW> Kamion: ok, sure
[03:45] <Kamion> seb128: ok, your turn
[03:46] <seb128> menus-revisited: almost all the changes have been uploaded (openoffice/gnome-bluetooth/avahi still to change), a bit of coordination to do with upstream to push some of the changes, will probably be moved to done next week
[03:46] <seb128> rhythmbox-ipod: packaged libgpod which is used by rhythmbox CVS, tried rhythmbox CVS too (0.9.2 tarball will be rolled pretty soon). There is still rhythmbox code to do, but I'm waiting to get my ipod for this (probably next week)
[03:46] <seb128> faster-gnome-startup: half of already done upstream/packaged. I've planned to work on the gconf transition (which is a part of it) today/tomorrow.
[03:46] <seb128> dapper-desktop-plan: not started yet, I'll work on that next week
[03:46] <seb128> video-playback: waiting for gstreamer0.10 which is due first week of december
[03:46] <seb128> next-week: continue to catch up with the huge pile of bugs, fix GNOME components for the firefox ABI changes, starting work on dapper-desktop-plan
[03:46] <Kamion> heh, "I need this iPod for work, honest"
[03:46] <Kamion> go seb :-)
[03:46] <seb128> ah ah
[03:46] <seb128> would be nice :)
[03:48] <Kamion> sivang: ok, anything on home-user-backup? for the moment it's targetted to dapper; we'll need to talk to mdz and find out if it deliberately wasn't that way earlier
[03:48] <Kamion> (and if so why)
[03:48] <Keybuk> heh
[03:48] <Keybuk> can I have an iPod too?
[03:48] <pitti> I need it for g-v-m testing ;)
[03:48] <seb128> rohh
[03:49] <ogra> isnt the biggest part of home-user-backup already covered by the SoC backuptool ?
[03:49] <Keybuk> I need one of those new nanos, they hit udev corner cases <g>
[03:49] <Diziet> sbackup you mean ?  Have you tried it ?
[03:49] <Diziet> I have and, erm.
[03:49] <ogra> nope
[03:49] <infinity> It needs much love.
[03:49] <ogra> ah, k
[03:49] <ogra> didnt know that
[03:49] <infinity> It did what is was meant to, but it's hardly up to our standards for ubuntu-desktop yet.
[03:50] <ogra> so you mean it needs HIG love ? 
[03:50] <Diziet> No, it needs love.  Some serious SM, I think.
[03:50] <ogra> or is the code itself awful
[03:50] <infinity> Backend polish too.  It just needs months of testing and refinement, or someone to work on it hardcore for a week or two.
[03:50] <infinity> Or both.
[03:51] <Diziet> I would describe it as a proof of concept.  Although I'm not sure of what concept.
[03:51] <ogra> heh
[03:51] <infinity> Anyhow, we veer offtopic.
[03:51] <Kamion> sivang seems to be away from the keyboard for a bit; if he comes back, we can get an update later
[03:51] <fabbione> ok
[03:51] <Kamion> doko: you're up
[03:52] <doko> toolchain: gcc/gcj packages split, libstdc++ allocator change in the works (pestering several people with NEW processing, promotions and package uploads), ia32-libs removal stalled (blocked by glibc biarch on amd64)
[03:52] <doko> java-updates: charles started, not yet started myself.
[03:52] <doko> others: no progress
[03:52] <doko> This week: gcc/gcj packages split, gcj-4.1 updates, syncs, merges libstdc++ allocator change, "java to native code infrastructure for libjava packages" is late.
[03:52] <doko> Next week:  - last libstdc++ allocator changes, making OOo buildable again, "java to native code infrastructure for libjava packages", start python merges/syncs, packaging update
[03:52] <Riddell> doko: is gcj-4.0 going to be installable soon?
[03:53] <doko> Riddell: yes, -4ubuntu10 is uploaded
[03:53] <seb128> doko: oo.o2 doesn't build atm?
[03:53] <Kamion> Riddell: according to dapper_probs.html it is already
[03:53] <Riddell> excellent
[03:53] <infinity> dapper_probs lies, then.
[03:53] <infinity> The unbroken version is still building.
[03:54] <Diziet> Can I suggest that in general the community participants should get to go first in this meeting ?  That will avoid us making them wait around quite so much.
[03:54] <doko> seb128, pending libstdc++ allocator changes ...
[03:54] <Kamion> Diziet: that's a good point; you're right
[03:54] <seb128> doko: I have some MenusRevisited changes to do, just to know if that's worth I try doing the change or if it'll not build anyway
[03:55] <doko> seb128, b-d's are not installable
[03:55] <seb128> k
[03:55] <seb128> thanks
[03:55] <JaneW> back
[03:56] <fabbione> if there is nothing more i am sort of in a hurry to go away
[03:56] <Kamion> infinity: hard to tell since ubuntu-minimal isn't installable, so I guess it's fairly hosed
[03:56] <doko> pitti: what about dropping mozilla-dev, are libnss-dev and libnspr-dev built from firefox, or separate sources?
[03:56] <Kamion> ok, Keybuk wanted to have a quick merge progress update
[03:56] <Keybuk> yes
[03:56] <pitti> doko: oh, good point
[03:56] <Kamion> we have four minutes :)
[03:56] <infinity> Kamion : I'm your "make stuff installible again" slave, first thing Monday.  Or maybe tomorrow, if I get other stuff out of the way.
[03:56] <Kamion> I make it 127 open merge bugs currently
[03:56] <Keybuk> there are 120 merges outstanding, of which 10% date before dapper opened
[03:56] <pitti> doko: #u-d, let's discuss that later
[03:56] <Keybuk> 127?  I have 122
[03:56] <doko> pitti: ok
[03:56] <seb128> pitti, doko: xulrunner?
[03:56] <Keybuk> this is only a slight decrease on this time last week
[03:57] <Keybuk> ergo. PEOPLE ARE NOT DOING ENOUGH MERGES
[03:57] <pitti> all merge bugs are assigned now
[03:57] <doko> Keybuk: I DONT KNOW THAT THERE ARE OPEN BUGS, you can't see them, if you are not the assigne
[03:57] <Keybuk> doko: yes you can.
[03:57] <Kamion> alright, please everyone push merges a step or two up your to-do list
[03:57] <Keybuk> I've posted a URL which lists them a few times
[03:57] <ogra> doko, YOU CAN WITH mdz's URL HE SEND 
[03:57] <Kamion> doko: I have a "merge bugs" saved query in bugzilla, so it's fairly straightforward to see
[03:58] <ogra> s/send/sent/
[03:58] <Keybuk> basically search for all bugs which have an alias beginning "merge-*"
[03:58] <pitti> doko: search for 'merging' in bugzilla, that's easiest and effective
[03:58] <Kamion> doko: anyway, I make it 16 or so assigned to you :)
[03:58] <Kamion> (I have plenty myself)
[03:58] <Keybuk> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&product=Ubuntu&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chf
[03:58] <Keybuk> ieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&query_based_on=Pending+Merges&field0-0-0=alias&type0-0-0=regexp&value0-0-0=%5Emerge-
[03:58] <pitti> Keybuk: is MOM still running? some packages were already merged twice
[03:59] <pitti> arghl
[03:59] <Keybuk> trim and save that :)
[03:59] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, tinyurl!
[03:59] <Kamion> if people want to take merges, they should feel free to ask the assignee, in general; sometimes the assignee will be happy to give stuff away
[03:59] <Kamion> I recommend marking the bug ASSIGNED if you're actually in progress on the merge, so that people can tell
[04:00] <Keybuk> yeah, I've actually done that a few times so far -- and stolen merges off people because they were in a package I wanted to touch, or just because I looked through the patches and decided I knew how to do it
[04:00] <Kamion> anyway, we're out of time; any quick final business?
[04:00] <Keybuk> oh yes
[04:00] <Keybuk> mom is not running
[04:00] <Mithrandir> why not?
[04:00] <Keybuk> she'll start again once the current merge dearth is done, if there's time before UVF
[04:00] <pitti> makes sense IMHO
[04:00] <Keybuk> otherwise it's a "SHIT KEEPS FALLING!" problem
[04:00] <pitti> otherwise it's hard to tell which packages were merged three times, and which never
[04:02] <Keybuk> http://www.lag.net/random/leisure-c.jpg
[04:02] <Kamion> let's try to get that down below 20 or so for next week, then (unless MOM is restarted)
[04:02] <Kamion> (making some allowance for the brutally hard ones here)
[04:02] <Keybuk> right, everyone only needs to do about 10-15 each
[04:03] <JaneW> Thanks everyone that ran pretty well, I'll try to get the sheet updated and published during tomorrow
[04:03] <Kamion> if you have no merge bugs assigned, look for ones you want to steal
[04:03] <pitti> Kamion: some are blocked by stuff (e. g. thunderbird locale packages for tbird 1.5, etc.)
[04:03] <Kamion> pitti: hence allowance
[04:03] <JaneW> in absence of most of the meeting updates, I will keep last week's ones on the list
[04:03] <pitti> thanks everyone
[04:03] <Kamion> ok, thank you all; *ding* meeting closed
[04:03] <dholbach> yeah, thank you
[04:04] <Kamion> JaneW: thanks for recording
[04:04] <ogra> thanks Kamion/JaneW  for playing mdz 
[04:04] <pitti> JaneW: do you need the IRC log?
[04:07] <JaneW> pitti: I have already cut and paste the bits I need without discussions, mdz might want the whole thing...
[04:08] <seb128> don't forget to note I need an ipod :p
[04:08] <Mithrandir> I want a pony!
[04:08] <HiddenWolf> seb128, when might we see rhythmbox 0.9.2?
[04:08] <ogra> and a pony
[04:08] <Mithrandir> ogra: a thin pony?
[04:09] <HiddenWolf> pony-client. :)
[04:09] <HiddenWolf> ogra@pony
[04:09] <seb128> HiddenWolf: when it's ready
[04:09] <seb128> HiddenWolf: ask upstream?
[04:10] <HiddenWolf> seb128, I will. :)
[04:10] <HiddenWolf> seb128, current one is sucky.
[04:10] <ogra> Mithrandir, opposed to a fat pony ? yeah...
[04:12] <seb128> HiddenWolf: thanks, such opinion on free software are still appreciate :p
[04:13] <HiddenWolf> seb128, I love it, but it's sucky still. :)
[04:13] <seb128> I disagree
[04:13] <seb128> but that's not the chan to speak about that anyway
[04:13] <HiddenWolf> true
[05:02] <sivang> rehi all,. Sorry :-( had 3 meetings in a row at work
[05:09] <sivang> Kamion: sorry for before, I had 3 in-a-row meetings I had to attend :-(
[05:10] <sivang> Kamion: in any case, I was referring to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperGoals, you can see there that my goal is "under consideration" , from my talks with mdz I realized he's still hadn't gotten to it, so assumed it has good chances to get deferred
[05:14] <sivang> Kamion: plus, I really had to run away for those work meetings.
[05:15] <Kamion> no problem, thanks. Any status on home-user-backup you'd like to report?
[05:17] <sivang> Kamion: Can I email you about this? I have to run again and will not be able to be online for like 2 hours
[05:25] <Kamion> sivang: e-mail JaneW
[06:21] <nalioth> tritium: good plan, except somebody is missing
[06:24] <tritium> Hi thoreauputic 
[06:24] <thoreauputic> hi :)
[06:24] <thoreauputic> someone invited sabdfl ?
[06:25] <tritium> Yes
[06:25] <thoreauputic> k
[06:25] <tritium> Give him a minute to reply.  Perhaps he's busy
[06:25] <thoreauputic> I expect so :)
[06:26] <nalioth> i'm sure he has more on his plate than turkey (or whatever is on the menu)
[06:27] <sabdfl> hey all
[06:27] <nalioth> howdy sabdfl 
[06:28] <tritium> Hi sabdfl 
[06:28] <thoreauputic> hi sabdfl 
[06:29] <nalioth> wow
[06:29] <nalioth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewUsersNetworkGuidelines
[06:29] <thoreauputic> oh that was a short visit
[06:29] <nalioth> you can say that again
[06:30] <tritium> nalioth, whatever happened ot the NuN?
[06:31] <nalioth> tritium: it gets new user requests to join about once a week
[06:32] <tritium> Well, nevertheless, it can't hurt to start thinking about his recommendation to implement a few simple rules.
[06:32] <nalioth> i guess we are all doing our 10hours minimum service to new users
[06:32] <tritium> nalioth, good deal
[06:32] <nalioth> i keep any eye on the users
[06:36] <thoreauputic> i notice there's a link to the CoC on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InternetRelayChat  - but that isn't really enough: a bit on general netiquette would be appropriate
[06:37] <thoreauputic> at the moment it's scattered across a few ubotu factoids :)
[06:37] <tritium> I guess so.  I'd have liked to get sabdfl's opinion
[06:37] <nalioth> so let's make a !rules since that's what most folks try to hit
[06:37] <thoreauputic> tritium: yes, maybe he lost his connection - or expected a rapid beginning ;-)
[06:38] <nalioth> the NUN guidelines are a good place to start
[06:38] <tritium> agreed
[06:43] <thoreauputic> The guidelines are fine as they satnd, but maybe we could add a few pointers about things like not /msg ing people without asking , and keeping questions in channel etc 9also a pointer to #ubuntu-offtopic - a lot of people don't know about it
[06:44] <nalioth> sounds good
[06:44] <thoreauputic> hmm just some ideas to kick around
[06:44] <nalioth> and it can be as big as needed 
[06:44] <thoreauputic> a wiki page I guess 
[06:44] <tritium> Sounds good
[06:44] <thoreauputic> heh
[06:45] <thoreauputic> what's that in kilos? *grin*
[06:45] <nalioth> factoid too, many users dont visit the wiki
[06:45] <thoreauputic> nalioth: right - a brief factoid or perhaps one that's a bit longer for !tell user about rules
[06:49] <thoreauputic> what about something like " there are some simple IRC traditions: 1) Don't pm/ msg people without asking 2) Ask questions in channel so everyone can help and learn 3)Be polite - remember others may be from different cultures and not understand your humour 
[06:49] <thoreauputic> hmm geeting long already..
[06:50] <nalioth> it's gonna end up a !+ factoid, no matter how we word it, i'm afraid
[06:50] <thoreauputic> yes
[06:52] <thoreauputic> Shall I create a page on the wiki called "IRCRules" or similar, and we can add and edit it, then discuss the results?
[06:52] <nalioth> irc guidelines
[06:52] <nalioth> would be a more friendly title, i think
[06:53] <tritium> guidelines sounds better to me too
[06:53] <thoreauputic> yes, agreed
[06:53] <thoreauputic> yes rules sounds rather schoolmasterly ;)
[06:57] <thoreauputic> OK an empty placeholder is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCGuidelines
[06:57] <thoreauputic> it contains nothing yet :)
[06:58] <thoreauputic> except a description of intent 
[06:59] <nalioth> you can link the NUN guidelines as a reference
[06:59] <thoreauputic> nalioth: ah good idea
[06:59] <nalioth> for now, anyway
[07:00] <nalioth> and maybe leave em at the bottom for 'extra thought'
[07:14] <tritium> Should we include #ubuntu-forums in that list, thoreauputic?  Perhaps as an ubuntu-focused channel, it should abide by the CoC as well, and any guidelines we have
[07:15] <thoreauputic> tritium: yes, good idea
[07:15] <nalioth> tritium: i think that's a kettle of piranha
[07:15] <tritium> It might be a good way to bring them into the fold, so to speak.
[07:15] <thoreauputic> tritium: I haven't actually got very far yet withthe wiki page - eacch time I preview takes ages on dialup :)
[07:15] <tritium> thoreauputic, even just the placeholder is a good start for now, I'd say
[07:16] <thoreauputic> yep - it will not have any content yet
[07:16] <nalioth> piranha.
[07:17] <tritium> I think we should ask for input from the CC before placing any guidelines there anyway
[07:17] <tritium> And find out more about what sabdfl had in mind
[07:17] <nalioth> i think having a general set of guidelines would be alright
[07:18] <nalioth> they can be 'tuned' to CC wishes if necessary
[07:18] <tritium> I don't see any harm in that
[07:18] <tritium> Well, I have to get to Thanksgiving dinner at my sister's now.
[07:18] <tritium> Have a good day, everyone.
[07:19] <thoreauputic> see you tritium  :)
[07:19] <tritium> bye :)
[07:19] <nalioth> tritium: be safe, enjoy your holiday
[07:19] <tritium> You too.
[07:21] <thoreauputic> OK well I've just put a few channels and a link to NUNAgenda up for a starter - I have to go too now
[07:22] <thoreauputic> nalioth: happy Thanksgiving to you :)
[07:22] <nalioth> thoreauputic: you be safe, too
[07:22] <thoreauputic> thanks - see you around :)