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[12:24] <yi> floam: anymore luck with xorg 7.0 and evdev?
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[12:31] <floam> yi: none, I hope daniels can get that patch in
[12:31] <floam> err
[12:31] <floam> guess he left
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[12:53] <zyga> night
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[01:00] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync kvirc from unstable, ubuntu override ok
[01:03] <wasabi> Anybody aware of a python reference for gnome option parsing?
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[01:26] <lifeless> Diziet: sorry I missed the meeting
[01:26] <lifeless> Diziet: alarm clock failed to wake me
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[01:45] <Riddell> why are the buildd's not building anything?
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[01:51] <jbailey> Riddell: How can you tell?
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[01:54] <ajmitch> hi jeff 
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[02:01] <jbailey> ajmitch: Heya!
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[03:05] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync openbabel from unstable, ubuntu override ok (c2a-transition affected and done in debian)
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[03:34] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync libpqxx from unstable, ubuntu override ok
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[03:41] <jdong> is lsb safe to backport?
[03:41] <jdong> clamav 0.87.1~breezy1 calls log_daemon_msg which is only in the newer lsb
[03:41] <jdong> doesn't cause any major grips but a warning
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[03:43] <sistpoty> jdong: have you checked lsb changes?
[03:43] <jdong> briefly looked through the changelog, yes
[03:43] <jdong> looked pretty safe
[03:44] <jdong> except it seems like we're going through lsb 2->3 transitions?
[03:44] <sistpoty> hm... sorry i think I can't help you there (no clue about lsb)
[03:45] <jdong> k, thanks for trying
[03:45] <jdong> will let the request sit for a while
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[04:16] <psusi> what is this libstdc++ allocator change that is causing ABI breakage chaos?  the implementation for malloc changed?
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[04:47] <lamont-away> ogra: build logs _should_ be happy now..
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[05:12] <psusi> is there somewhere I should report bugs with dapper instead of bugzilla?  todays updates to xorg hard lock my system unless I disable acceleration on the stock xord radeon driver I'm using with a radeon 9800 pro
[05:14] <daniels> awesome
[05:14] <daniels> comment out the 'Load "dri"' and possibly the 'Load "glx"' lines in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[05:14] <daniels> so you can keep 2d accel
[05:15] <psusi> hrm... doesn't 2d accel use dri?
[05:16] <daniels> er, nope
[05:16] <daniels> dri is for client-side 3d acceleration
[05:16] <wasabi> http://akita.larvalstage.net/~wasabi/gapti   -   program that almost implements http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyApt
[05:16] <psusi> I thought dri was for client side access to the hardware... which was needed for all acceleration?
[05:17] <psusi> I'll give that a try though.. thanks... hope it works... 
[05:17] <daniels> psusi: accel isn't covered by modules, just Option "NoAccel" will do it
[05:17] <daniels> though disabling all acceleration has the neat side effect of disabling DRI
[05:17] <psusi> but... a hard lock indicates a serious bug in the kernel, no?
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[05:17] <daniels> mostly xorg, actually
[05:18] <psusi> but xorg should nto be able to do things that hard lock the kernel
[05:18] <daniels> basically xorg does sufficiently nasty things to the hardware than you can just lock the card up solid
[05:18] <psusi> hrm...
[05:18] <daniels> well, xorg can lock the gpu up solid
[05:18] <psusi> you know, I thought that I heard a weird sound when it locked...
[05:18] <daniels> at which point all bets are off, really
[05:18] <psusi> but even if the gpu is locked solid, shouldn't the keyboard leds still respond?
[05:18] <daniels> depends how badly locked it is
[05:19] <psusi> interesting... well, where should I report this bug so it can hopefully get fixed?
[05:19] <daniels> bugzilla.ubuntu.com against xserver-xorg-driver-ati with full Xorg.0.log and xorg.conf, please
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[05:20] <psusi> there is no log since the system hard locks
[05:21] <daniels> if you mount the partition with sync (sudo mount -o remount,sync /), then it'll be /var/log/Xorg.0.log on next start
[05:21] <psusi> ahhh... at least as much as was logged at the time of the freeze
[05:21] <psusi> ok... I'm off to try this..
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[05:23] <subterrific> is Thom May around?
[05:23] <yi> has anyone found out more about https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=3814
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[05:23] <subterrific> I'm trying to get the status on a bug he is keeping open
[05:24] <daniels> subterrific: which bug?
[05:24] <daniels> yi: it's fundamentally the wrong patch
[05:24] <daniels> yi: we're looking at other solutions on the xorg list
[05:24] <yi> daniels: right
[05:24] <subterrific> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=6002
[05:25] <yi> daniels: it adds functionality that was removed on purpopse
[05:25] <yi> daniels: ok cool :)
[05:25] <daniels> yi: the problem is that XFree86Server should absolutely not be defined in the dix
[05:26] <daniels> subterrific: er, there hasn't been any activity since march -- maybe ping him through the bts?
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[05:26] <subterrific> yeah, that was plan b :)
[05:26] <subterrific> is he thom on irc?
[05:26] <subterrific> (for future reference)
[05:26] <lifeless> yes.
[05:26] <subterrific> k
[05:27] <daniels> yeah, he is
[05:27] <daniels> he won't be around for a while, though -- it's 0427
[05:28] <subterrific> thats ok, i've got 450 more bugs to look at
[05:32] <floam> daniels: is there any chance of getting that input patch applied onto X?
[05:32] <floam> daniels: quite a few dapper users have really-messed-up mouse buttons
[05:32] <wasabi> Hmm. Ya know. gnome-app-install should be somehow more "standard". Like information about what is available should be available thru another means, and it should let you uninstall.
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[05:33] <wasabi> Then it becomes synaptic for dummies (and fulfills the same roll Windows Add/Remove does)
[05:33] <daniels> floam: the one yi posted the URL to? no
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[05:34] <daniels> floam: it fundamentally violates one of the rules (ddxes do NOT intrude on the dix layer) that I've spent months fixing and enforcing
[05:34] <daniels> and might well actually turn up other problems
[05:35] <floam> oh.
[05:35] <floam> daniels: do you know what is wrong, then?
[05:35] <floam> daniels: well, I'm not sure about yi, I'm talking about hte one on ubuntu bugzilla
[05:35] <floam> may very well be the same patch, though
[05:35] <floam> s/hte/the/
[05:36] <daniels> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=3814
[05:36] <floam> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20052
[05:36] <floam> daniels: that would be the one
[05:36] <daniels> adds $(XORG_CFLAGS) to dix/ and xorg-config.h to dix/events.c
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[05:36] <daniels> yep.  same patch.
[05:37] <daniels> the problem needs to be fixed further up in the mouse layer (or we just admit that we're upstream and change the dix).  we're working out which one to do on the lists now.
[05:37] <psusi> daniels, which package did you say I should report the bug on?  btw, thanks.. disabling dri and fgl worked
[05:37] <daniels> psusi: er, you're using fglrx?
[05:37] <psusi> daniels, nope...
[05:37] <daniels> psusi: xserver-xorg-driver-ati is the package
[05:37] <daniels> psusi: ah.  so you mean dri and glx, I guess?
[05:37] <floam> daniels: xorg's lists?
[05:37] <psusi> hrm... that package is not known to bugzilla
[05:37] <psusi> err. wait
[05:37] <psusi> my bad... i was trying -radeon...
[05:37] <daniels> floam: yeah, there's been a thread about it on xorg@
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[05:38] <psusi> daniels, err, yea... glx
[05:38] <floam> aha. cool
[05:38] <floam> wish I had read that a day ago
[05:38] <daniels> or maybe it was just us arguing on bz
[05:39] <floam> I don't see it
[05:40] <daniels> me neither
[05:40] <daniels> maybe it was on IRC
[05:40] <daniels> who knows
[05:40] <floam> heh.
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[05:44] <floam> I guess I'll just sit tight and teach my brain how to use a mouse again
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[05:44] <floam> and learn to like the default gtk theme and icons :)
[05:44] <floam> or. gasp, set it myself in .gtkrc
[05:48] <yi> how is the gnome stuff related?
[05:50] <floam> yi: same issue as xmodmpa
[05:50] <floam> xmodmap
[05:51] <floam> yi: gnome-settings-daemon does mappings
[05:54] <yi> ah i see
[05:55] <subterrific> i'm having trouble tracking this down on google. what happened to boot-admin in gnome-system-tools?
[05:55] <subterrific> the help documents are there, but the binary isn't
[05:56] <subterrific> ah, nm. i found it in the change log.
[05:59] <crimsun> daniels: programs should use -I/usr/include/X11 not -I/usr/X11R6/include , correct?
[06:02] <daniels> crimsun: they shouldn't use anything at all
[06:02] <daniels> crimsun: the canonical way to do includes is #include <X11/foo.h> or <X11/extensions/foo.h>
[06:03] <crimsun> daniels: the specific example here is vtk, which explicitly adds -I/usr/X11R6/include
[06:03] <crimsun> daniels: I'm just trying to eek out whether I should kill it
[06:04] <crimsun> as in stuff like this: VTKConfig.cmake:15:SET(VTK_REQUIRED_C_FLAGS " -I/usr/X11R6/include")
[06:05] <daniels> crimsun: yeah, just kill it
[06:06] <crimsun> daniels: great, thanks.
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[06:20] <fabbione> morning
[06:24] <infinity> Morning, Fabio.
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[06:48] <mhz> mako ping
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[06:52] <sleazye> what script is run in the expert installer that asks to set a grub password?
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[06:57] <viviersf> sleazye, i might be wrong but its done in grub-installs postint file
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[06:58] <viviersf> line 385 about
[06:59] <sleazye> thanks
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[08:16] <pitti> Good morning
[08:17] <crimsun> moin pitti 
[08:18] <pitti> Hi
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[08:24] <pitti> Hi Keybuk 
[08:24] <Mithrandir> good morning dudes
[08:26] <Keybuk> morning
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[08:36] <pitti> bah, go gdmflexiserver, aka 'kill my machine'
=== infinity performs delicate surgery on lrm with a chainsaw.
[08:41] <magnon> ugh... I've done zope templating and css all night
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[08:47] <Keybuk> infinity: so I have an "interesting" problem ...
[08:48] <Keybuk> having done all that testing of the new udev, I can't actually boot 12-9 anymore
[08:49] <Mithrandir> do we still care about postfix-vs-other-mtas in Depends: postfix | m-t-a?  As in, should those still be changed, or don't we care any more?
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[08:50] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: interesting question.  postfix is still the only mta in main
[08:51] <infinity> Keybuk : Yay.
[08:51] <Keybuk> infinity: and my network card needs lrm ;)
[08:52] <Keybuk> hopefully I've made a potentially interesting initramfs that I can boot 2.6.12-9 with
[08:52] <Keybuk> at least with init=/bin/sh anyway
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[08:52] <Mithrandir> Diziet: would you mind if I chucked the mozilla merge in your direction?
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[08:56] <infinity> Keybuk : You can always build madwifi by hand for now, if you need it.  lrm will take some polish from me over the weekend (updating nvidia, fglrx, making ltmodem build again, adjusting to the new modular X reality, etc, so it's a bit of effort)
[08:57] <Keybuk> infinity: I could, if I could get the source for madwifi
[08:59] <infinity> Hrm, I don't actually build a nice little madwifi source package, do I?
[08:59] <infinity> Oh well, you can yank it from the lrm-2.6.12 source package.
[08:59] <Keybuk> if I had that
[09:00] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: why is mom not DTRT on the pbuilder merge?  It looks like it doesn't see the common base?
[09:01] <Keybuk> because the common base doesn't exist
[09:02] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: sure it does, I merged it a week ago.
[09:02] <Keybuk>  * Processing pbuilder
[09:02] <Keybuk>    - unstable: 0.139
[09:02] <Keybuk>    - main: 0.137ubuntu1
[09:02] <Keybuk>    - testing: 0.136
[09:02] <Keybuk>    - stable: 0.123
[09:02] <Keybuk>    - oldstable: 0.26
[09:02] <Keybuk>    - morgue: 0.135
[09:02] <Keybuk>    - old-morgue: 0.127
[09:02] <Keybuk> ...
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[09:02] <Keybuk> mom can't get source packages from the "Tollef's disk" morgue
[09:03] <Mithrandir> uhm, shouldn't it have gotten the diff from 0.137 to 0.137ubuntu1 and then applied that to 0.139?
[09:03] <Keybuk> perhaps
[09:04] <Keybuk> if it could find 0.137 anywhere
[09:04] <Keybuk> which it can't
[09:04] <Mithrandir> from http://snapshot.debian.net/archive/pool/p/pbuilder/source/Sources.gz: Directory: 2005/11/04/debian/pool/main/p/pbuilder
[09:05] <Keybuk> we don't use snapshot.debian.net
[09:05] <Keybuk> it lies
[09:05] <Mithrandir> shouldn't mom make a copy of the source to somewhere it can later get at it when the merge bug is closed or something, then?
[09:06] <Keybuk> how do you mean?
[09:06] <Mithrandir> 0.137 existed when I did the merge.
[09:06] <Keybuk> yes, let's keep a copy of every source package, ever
[09:06] <Keybuk> elmo would like that :)
[09:06] <Mithrandir> no, just the ones we merge from.
[09:06] <Mithrandir> if you have foo_0.1-1ubuntu1, we should have foo_0.1-1
[09:07] <Mithrandir> else, we can't get the ubuntu-only diff.
[09:07] <Mithrandir> right?
[09:07] <Keybuk> it doesn't work like that in practice, and you know it
[09:08] <Keybuk> mom can't keep it's own output around, because it's own output is guaranteed never to go in the archive
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[09:09] <Keybuk> it's a three-way diff anyway
[09:09] <Keybuk> it doesn't particularly matter how old the base is
[09:09] <Keybuk> provided it's equally too-old for both sides
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[09:09] <Keybuk> which, in this case, it was
[09:09] <Keybuk> it just makes the -debian and -ubuntu patches a bit bigger
[09:09] <Keybuk> it doesn't affect -dropped at all
[09:10] <Mithrandir> it does.  Look at the ubuntu-dropped for pbuilder, it includes stuff which I'm sure I didn't change.
[09:10] <Keybuk> you did
[09:10] <Keybuk> most of the dropped is testsuite output
[09:11] <Mithrandir> first thing in dropped is $Id$ in ChangeLog
[09:11] <Mithrandir> I'm bloody sure I didn't run cvs up, nor touch that file.
[09:12] <Keybuk> Ubuntu-side
[09:12] <Keybuk> -       $Id: ChangeLog,v 1.335 2005/10/19 16:37:13 dancer Exp $
[09:12] <Keybuk> +       $Id: ChangeLog,v 1.341 2005/11/02 14:21:14 dancer Exp $
[09:12] <Keybuk> Debian-side
[09:12] <Keybuk> -       $Id: ChangeLog,v 1.335 2005/10/19 16:37:13 dancer Exp $
[09:12] <Keybuk> +       $Id: ChangeLog,v 1.345 2005/11/16 05:29:47 dancer Exp $
[09:12] <Keybuk> -- 
[09:12] <Keybuk> $Id$ lines are impossible to patch
[09:13] <Mithrandir> if the _ubuntu patch had been against the right version, I wouldn't have had that in the ubuntu-dropped at all, since it wouldn't have shown up in the _ubuntu.patch.
[09:14] <Mithrandir> having stuff you never touched show up in dropped feels.. wrong.
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[09:15] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[09:15] <Keybuk> we use every source morgue we can
[09:16] <Keybuk> you were just unlucky that the base wasn't actually GETable when the merge happened
[09:16] <Mithrandir> how does snapshot.d.n lie?
[09:16] <Keybuk> it claims to have sources for things it doesn't
[09:16] <Keybuk> its disks melted a few months ago, and they never removed the Sources files
[09:16] <Keybuk> so if you go to 2004, for example, it claims it has lots of things -- and then if you try and get any of them, you get a 404
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[09:18] <Mithrandir> that's bad, I agree.  No chance of special-handling it by making it low-priority and ignoring lies, or something?
[09:18] <Keybuk> there's no point
[09:18] <Mithrandir> since it does have pbuilder_0.137 in this case
[09:18] <Keybuk> it does _NOW_
[09:18] <Keybuk> debian morgue has it _NOW_ too
[09:18] <Keybuk> I bet it didn't when that merge ran
[09:18] <Keybuk> there's a short window in which a source is in transition from the pool to the morgue
[09:18] <Mithrandir> hmm, ok, and those aren't updated because mom doesn't run?
[09:19] <Keybuk> and every now and then (like in this case), mom hits that window and has to use an older source
[09:19] <Keybuk> no, it's not updated because you've already uploaded 0.139ubuntu1 to the archive ;)
[09:19] <Mithrandir> I have?
[09:19] <Keybuk> someone has
[09:19] <Mithrandir> I hate it when people steal my merges without telling me.
[09:19] <Keybuk>   pbuilder |      0.107 |    warty/main | source, all
[09:19] <Keybuk>   pbuilder | 0.139ubuntu1 |   dapper/main | source, all
[09:20] <Mithrandir> oh well, I guess I should head out a bit.
[09:20] <crimsun> mvo did
[09:21] <Keybuk> I find the best way to process merges is to open the dropped in emacs
[09:21] <Keybuk> and then just iterate the hunks using goto-source, apply-hunk, kill-hunk, etc.
[09:22] <Mithrandir> yeah, I should start using diff-mode more
[09:22] <Keybuk> so that $Id$ would take you about 0.1s, you'd go to it, see why it dropped, and just hit kill-hunk and carry on
[09:22] <zakame> Keybuk: woo
[09:22] <Keybuk> I also vaguely experimented with a 3diff output for mom, but didn't like it
[09:22] <Keybuk> zakame: at?
[09:23] <zakame> applying diffs with emacs :)
[09:23] <Keybuk> heh, that's how I always do it
[09:24] <Keybuk> emacs' diff-mode is love
[09:24] <Keybuk> especially because it lets you edit the patch and fixes the @@ lines as it goes <g>
[09:25] <zakame> diff-mode love
[09:25] <zakame> yup, sweet
[09:29] <nomed> i had a coupple of Q about the usplash script within the initramfs-tool
[09:29] <nomed> why do you use vga16fb.ko
[09:29] <nomed> if $VESA != "true"?
[09:30] <nomed> i mean ...
[09:30] <nomed> if in cmdline you have .. splash*
[09:30] <nomed> the script will try to run usplash
[09:31] <nomed> but if you don't load vesafb.ko it doesn't seems to work
[09:31] <nomed> then ...
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[09:31] <nomed> what if there is an entry vga=0x314
[09:32] <nomed> the usplash picture is 640x480
[09:32] <nomed> i'm using it with isolinux ...
[09:32] <nomed> isolinux let you to choose even res
[09:32] <nomed> and that will write vga=$VAR
[09:35] <nomed> my Q is ...
[09:35] <nomed> is it possible to use and load usplash-artwotk-640x480.so
[09:36] <nomed> if the res selected is 640x480
[09:36] <nomed> usplash-artwork-800x600.so if 800x600 and so on .. ?
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[09:36] <infinity> nome: I've considsered it, yes.
[09:36] <infinity> s/nome/nomed/
[09:37] <sabdfl> morning all
[09:37] <zakame> hi sabdfl 
[09:37] <nomed> and check on VESA i think is needed too
[09:37] <sabdfl> infinity: so, the problem turned out to be a gdm.conf that thought X still lived in /usr/X11R6/bin/
[09:37] <nomed> if VESA != true usplash can't be used
[09:37] <infinity> sabdfl : Nice.  Crusty old conffile?
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[09:38] <sabdfl> infinity: unmodified hoary -> breezy -> dapper
[09:38] <sabdfl> this will affect other people, we need to fix it
[09:38] <infinity> nomed : vga16fb just needs to be loaded differently with newer kernels, that's all.
[09:38] <sabdfl> can i file a bug and assign to you?
[09:38] <infinity> nomed : this is all known.
[09:39] <infinity> sabdfl : Hrm.  Wait.  You SHOULD have a /usr/X11R6/bin/X ... I do.
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[09:39] <infinity> sabdfl : While gdm.cof should probably be updated anyway, that's not the cause of your problem.
[09:40] <nomed> infinity, do you think it's better if i post a message in the list .. 
[09:40] <nomed> or usplash doesn't need to be patched to get what i would ?
[09:40] <infinity> nomed : Probably not, this is all on my TODO anyway.
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[09:41] <dholbach> good morning
[09:41] <sabdfl> infinity: it works now, and afaik that's all i changed
[09:41] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:~$ dpkg -S /usr/X11R6/bin/X
[09:41] <infinity> xserver-common: /usr/X11R6/bin/X
=== infinity is concerned for the state of sabdfl's system.
[09:42] <sabdfl> i think aptitude was happy to drop xserver-common
[09:42] <infinity> Ah-ha.
[09:42] <infinity> Okay, then we need a compatibility link somewhere, probably.
[09:42] <infinity> Yeah, you're right.  xserver-common has become obsolete.
[09:44] <sabdfl> yay for aptitide
[09:44] <infinity> Or.. We need to resurrect xserver-common for other reasons.
[09:44] <sabdfl> it's great to be able to differentiate between the stuff you wanted and the stuff it decided you needed
[09:44] <infinity> Like, oh, dexconf.
[09:45] <siretart> dholbach: do you know of recent bugreports about the applications menu in gnome-panel being empty (?!)
[09:45] <dholbach> siretart: not really
[09:45] <infinity> Oh, no, we don't need dexconf.
[09:45] <sabdfl> yeah, dexconf was a victim too
[09:45] <dholbach> siretart: what's going wrong?
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[09:46] <siretart> dholbach: wait, I'll upload a screenshot
[09:46] <sabdfl> infinity: dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg barfed on the absence of dexconf
[09:47] <infinity> sabdfl : Oh, so it does, right at the end.  Go X.
[09:47] <siretart> dholbach: http://siretart.tauware.de/empty-menu.jpg
[09:47] <siretart> dholbach: I'll file a bugzilla then, okay?
[09:47] <infinity> Yeah, we'll need to resurrect this, then.
[09:48] <nomed> well  i see usplash needs a patch for sure ... to get what i would
[09:48] <nomed> infinity, last Q then i will not disturb you more
[09:48] <dholbach> siretart: when did this happen?
[09:48] <siretart> dholbach: I just upgraded from flight-1 (no bug) to dapper daily
[09:49] <siretart> dholbach: it happened just after the reboot after upgrade
[09:49] <siretart> dholbach: and the menu does appear, but collapses immediatly
[09:49] <nomed> where can i see your improvements to usplash ?
[09:49] <infinity> sabdfl : If you're in a bug filing mood, you can file one about the untimely death of xserver-common, assign it to daniels (should happen automatically anyway), and put me in the CC, as I may be the person who ends up fixing it while he's on vacation.
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[09:49] <dholbach> siretart: i will investigate
[09:50] <infinity> nomed : The next time I upload, I suppose.  usplash is backburnered for a week or so, while I work out other stuff (like broken X, for instance)
[09:51] <siretart> dholbach: okay. thanks
[09:51] <nomed> infinity, ok thanks for your availability
[09:51] <infinity> sabdfl : Also, thanks for testing dapper, I'll be sure to have our company founder send you a personally signed note of gratitude.
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[09:57] <sabdfl> infinity: ask him to include a cheque, and he and i will be best buddies :-)
[09:57] <Keybuk> since when were you short of money?! :)
[09:57] <sabdfl> seb128: any idea why clicking on a link in t-bird should fail to bring up ffox?
[09:58] <sabdfl> Keybuk: you should see the budget for the moon shot
[09:58] <seb128> sabdfl: the default browser is set to "mozilla-firefox" instead of "firefox"
[09:58] <seb128> and there is no "mozilla-firefox" with 1.5
[09:58] <seb128> sabdfl: change the command with preferences, preferred app
[09:58] <Keybuk> moon shot?
[09:58] <sabdfl> right. seb128 how will we handle upgrades from breezy?
[09:58] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: we're going to shoot ubuntu CDs at the moon?
[09:59] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: shipit 3.0
[09:59] <sabdfl> going galactic
[09:59] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: you're insane. :-)
[09:59] <seb128> sabdfl: we will change the default command (not done yet), which works for everybody who didn't change the command itself 
[09:59] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: some days. other days, i do stuff like ubuntu
[09:59] <sabdfl> seb128: ok cool
[09:59] <seb128> sabdfl: if we want to make it working for everybody firefox should keep shipping a "mozilla-firefox" alias
[10:00] <Keybuk> yay, BenC clearly got fed up with turkey
[10:00] <Keybuk> infinity: I've solved the mystery of who's fixing _my_ bugs
[10:01] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: is mom@ubuntu.com an autoresponder looking at changes files and mailing "you're a twat" to the guy who has signed the .changes?
[10:03] <Keybuk> no?
[10:03] <fabbione> Keybuk: i think he is more addicted to Ubuntu than to turkey :)
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[10:03] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: jennifer will reject anything with that name in the changes file, with a typically elmo message
[10:04] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: sounds good.
[10:04] <Keybuk> "changelog mentions YOUR MUM" iirc
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[10:07] <Mithrandir> elmo: please sync freeglut3, overriding ubuntu changes is ok.
[10:09] <fabbione> infinity: so to test new modular X is enough i keep a copy of xorg.conf..
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[10:13] <\sh> is anyone working on bringing back the buildlogs?
[10:14] <Mithrandir> elmo: please sync gail, overriding ubuntu changes is ok.
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[10:17] <infinity> fabbione : Keep xserver-common installed, if you don't want to suffer sabdfl's problems.
[10:19] <infinity> \sh : lamont's been having some heated debates with rsync ove what it considering to be a "sensible" number of files.
[10:19] <\sh> infinity: uhh...ok
[10:19] <infinity> s/ove what it considering/over what it considers/
=== infinity decicdes to stop typing for a couple of hours.
[10:20] <\sh> so i'll surving the archives
[10:20] <\sh> surfing even
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[10:21] <fabbione> infinity: ppc is doomed
[10:21] <fabbione> infinity: X dies hard... 
=== fabbione goes for debugging
[10:24] <infinity> fabbione : Which driver?... ati?
[10:24] <fabbione> yes
[10:24] <fabbione> i am checking if it's kernel related
[10:24] <infinity> Right.  Dig up some logs for me, and smack me in a couple of hours.
[10:24] <fabbione> i did upgrade both.. 
[10:24] <infinity> I'm out for dinner.
[10:24] <fabbione> ok
[10:24] <fabbione> no rush
[10:24] <infinity> And, by all means, blame the kernel.  I won't mind.
[10:24] <fabbione> i want to figure what's the problem
[10:24] <fabbione> no it's X
[10:24] <JaneW> fabbione: is the new udev stuff blocking probe-for-root-filesystem or boot-from-usb? It wasn't clear to me in the meeting.
[10:25] <fabbione> JaneW: new udev blocks -> probe-for-root-fs that (partially) blocks -> boot-from-usb
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[10:28] <jsgotangco> morning mvo 
[10:28] <dholbach> hellas mvo, jsgotangco :)
[10:28] <jsgotangco> hey dholbach 
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[10:29] <jsgotangco> dholbach: expect an email later
[10:29] <mvo> hey jsgotangco 
[10:29] <jsgotangco> =)
[10:29] <JaneW> fabbione: oic, thanks
[10:29] <mvo> hey dholbach! my network is back :) had a bit of trouble this morning
[10:29] <dholbach> jsgotangco: will do ;)
=== dholbach hugs mvo 
[10:29] <JaneW> is this a hug day or what?
[10:29] <fabbione> JaneW: no problem :)
[10:30] <dholbach> JaneW: of course - some bug triage guys are STILL working on it :)
=== dholbach hugs JaneW 
[10:30] <stub>  Launchpad will be going down in 30 mins. Downtime estimate is 45 mins total. Wikis will be read only.
=== dholbach passes the message to the MOTUs
[10:31] <JaneW> dholbach: thanks :)
[10:32] <dholbach> :)
[10:32] <pitti> sivang: ping
[10:32] <JaneW> fabbione: do you own server-candy? It's currently assigned to  ubuntu-server, shall we leave it like that or have a single representative and  responsible person?
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[10:34] <fabbione> JaneW: i did assign it to the team, but yes.. i am the one in charge of it and working on it
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[10:35] <JaneW> fabbione: ok great thanks, you can delegate as you like (obviously), but I'll put you as the lead for reporting purposes if that's ok...?
[10:36] <JaneW> fabbione: can I set you as the spec assignee to make that explicit, or is there a reaosn not to?
[10:36] <fabbione> JaneW: if you set me as assignee in launcpad, the spec will move from ubuntu-server team to me again
[10:37] <fabbione> JaneW: but i am ok to be the leader
[10:37] <JaneW> fabbione: yes, ok I will leave it as is, and just put it in your section of the table...
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[10:43] <pitti> elmo: please sync nas
[10:43] <ogra> elmo, please sync blender, dropping ubuntu changes is ok
[10:46] <ogra> pitti, is #6002 still relevant ? i think we can close it
[10:46] <ogra> or seb128 even ^^
[10:47] <pitti> ogra: no idea, when the reporter does not encounter it any more, closing is fine
[10:47] <seb128> I doubt that hal spin an CDROM
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: you mean 'any more'?
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[10:47] <ogra> pitti, i doubt the reporter uses ubuntu 
[10:47] <seb128> pitti: it was due to hal itself?
[10:47] <pitti> seb128: yes
[10:48] <seb128> ogra: what does thom use now?
[10:48] <pitti> seb128: it polled CD-ROMs every few seconds or so
[10:48] <pitti> well, it still does
[10:48] <ogra> seb128, back to debian ? 
[10:48] <ogra> i dont know 
[10:48] <seb128> ogra: if you say so
[10:48] <pitti> ogra: just close it and reopen it if anybody complains
[10:48] <seb128> yeah, close it
[10:48] <pitti> ogra: I certainly didn't hear any recent reports about it
[10:48] <ogra> fine :-D
[10:53] <Keybuk> infinity: so, annoyingly, the major explosion from running udev 076 on 2.6.12-9 is from bootchart
[10:54] <Keybuk> the top of the udev init script safely puts the static /dev back, and disables any hotplugging
[10:54] <Keybuk> and then bootchart starts screaming 80 times a second that its jail went away <g>
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[11:44] <\sh> and another happy ubuntu user 
[11:45] <ogra> better than a unhappy bugreporter *g*
[11:46] <\sh> elmo: please sync conquest , cpphs from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes ok, thx
[11:46] <hunger> Is dapper going to be shipped with gcc 4.1?
[11:47] <fabbione> hunger: no.. gcc-4.0
[11:47] <floam> hunger: it just only came out
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[11:47] <hunger> fabbione: Good:-)
[11:47] <floam> hunger: they'll be chasing codegen bugs for a while now
[11:47] <hunger> floam: IIRC it is not out yet.
[11:47] <floam> hunger: it just came out.
[11:48] <hunger> floam: I read the RC branch was opened for it.
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[11:48] <floam> maybe slashdot lies then
[11:48] <floam> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/24/2249233
[11:48] <hunger> I was wondering since Fedora Core 5 is supposed to use gcc 4.1.
[11:49] <hunger> floam: Heise links to that article, claiming that it is wrong:-)
[11:50] <floam> god slashdot sucks
[11:50] <floam> I need to remove it from my places-to-read-daily list
[11:51] <hunger> floam: Removing /. and missing all the latest gossip and flamewars? NEVER! ;-)
[11:56] <floam> s/gossip/flat out wrong information/
[12:00] <floam> gossip is "pssst, I hear 4.1 will be out soon"
[12:01] <nomed> fabbione, i'm not sure if this can help you but .. cat /proc/mtrr and dmesg | grep mtrr .. in same ati cards there is an addresses issue
[12:02] <nomed> it seems somehow related with bios .. 
[12:02] <fabbione> nomed: sorry?
[12:02] <fabbione> can you explain the problem first?
[12:02] <fabbione> and put a bit of context around it?
[12:03] <nomed>  infinity: X dies hard.. <-- ati driver
[12:03] <fabbione> nomeata: yes. nothing to do with MTRR
[12:03] <fabbione> i already uploaded a fix
[12:03] <fabbione> the crash is ppc specific
[12:03] <nomed> in some ati cards dpkg-reconfigure -fnonintercative xserver-xorg was not working even in breezy
[12:03] <nomed> ahh ok
[12:04] <\sh> bah
[12:04] <\sh> wine + binary windows userland stuff...
[12:05] <doko> Kamion, mdz: please promote libboost-python1.33.0c2a libgtkmathview0c2a libtunepimp2c2a libopenh323-1.15.3c2a
[12:05] <\sh> no ways..only when I die they can do this
[12:06] <siretart> \sh: isn't wine already shipping some .dlls in their source?
[12:06] <siretart> \sh: I mean besides the .dll's they are doing natively inside wine
[12:08] <Kamion> doko: done
[12:08] <\sh> siretart: i don't think so..lemme look
[12:08] <ajmitch> siretart: sounds strange if they are
[12:08] <\sh> siretart: in the sources no
[12:09] <\sh> siretart: no binary dlls
[12:09] <siretart> ajmitch: I could imagine that. Hacking windows libraries (what wine needs to do) could be easier inside windows itself. but thats just a guess
[12:09] <siretart> ok. it was just a gues
[12:09] <\sh> siretart: no..the core dlls which are normally inside windows are emulated in core dlls of wine..which are available as source.
[12:10] <\sh> siretart: there is no windows binary or dll shipped with wine...until they decide to ship a plugin for mozilla/firefox...which means they have to ship mozilla/firefox for windows as well
[12:10] <siretart> \sh: but it is possible to use binary dlls for certain functions, no?
[12:11] <\sh> siretart: when you have the dlls handy, and have a original windows license...yes
[12:11] <\sh> siretart: but this is more "user installs a windows library/application by himself" and not "we ship binary stuff inside our sources"
[12:12] <doko> Riddell, Kamion: I'm not sure about kdesdk-scripts, but this is required as a b-d for arts
[12:12] <siretart> \sh: lets suggest him shipping an installer script, which fetches the dll in question from a source the user needs to give
[12:12] <siretart> preferably his mounted windowspartition
[12:13] <Kamion> doko: yes, I'm going through anastacia ATM
[12:13] <\sh> siretart: they can do whatever they want..but the problem is, as packagemaintainer and distributor, you can't support such a package...which means, avoiding to package it (the binary stuff)
[12:14] <siretart> \sh: you can for sure ship an installer script
[12:14] <\sh> siretart: if it's build from their sources, for sure
[12:14] <doko> Kamion: could you add a date stamp in anastacia's output (as in dapper_probes)
[12:14] <Kamion> kdesdk-scripts is namespace pollution in a tin, but is ok for main
[12:14] <Kamion> doko: Kamion != archive administrator
[12:14] <Kamion> doko: ask elmo
[12:14] <doko> :)
[12:15] <Kamion> (in other words I don't hack the code unless I really have to)
[12:15] <siretart> \sh: and they can of course ship any blob they want, given the licence of that blob allows that. Obviously the dll in question does not
[12:15] <doko> elmo: ^^^
[12:15] <Kamion> doko: actually, ask mdz - it's his output - command-line use of anastacia shouldn't output the timestamp, but the one mdz publishes should
[12:15] <\sh> siretart: they want to ship mozilla/firefox activeX plugin...
[12:15] <siretart> \sh: I read the thread on ubuntu-devel
[12:16] <siretart> \sh: he didn't say anything about shipping a windows firefox with wine. AFAIU they want to ship a mozilla plugin, which can drive windows activeX plugins via wine
[12:17] <siretart> \sh: there are some windows applications, which can only be started via an activeX plugin. Weird, but seems to become more and more common these days. And enabling running windows application is what wine is about, no?
[12:18] <\sh> siretart: but for running this plugin u need firefox/mozilla
[12:19] <siretart> \sh: AFAIU, they want to use the firefox shipped by ubuntu, not the windows one.
[12:19] <siretart> \sh: the problem is on another end
[12:25] <sabdfl> Keybuk: what's the panel applet for network manager? I installed network manager, but don't see an obvious candidate in the list
[12:25] <ogra> sabdfl, it should show up in your tray as trayicon ... there is no applet
[12:26] <\sh> siretart: no...they need the windows stuff for doing the activeX installer thing from steam
[12:26] <hunger> sabdfl: I start nm-applet manually. But I am using KDE...
[12:26] <sabdfl> ogra: do i need to add it to the session startup?
[12:26] <\sh> siretart: there is no way to run activeX via linux firefox/mozilla
[12:26] <ogra> i think you need to start it once
[12:26] <ogra> it should add itself to the session then
[12:26] <Keybuk> sabdfl: you have to start it manually, nm-applet
=== mahangu [n=mahangu@unaffiliated/mahangu]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ogra goes fetching GF from doc ... bbl
[12:28] <siretart> sabdfl: nm-applet, iirc
[12:29] <infinity> nomed : ping.
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[12:29] <nomed> infinity, pong
[12:30] <siretart> \sh: wait, careful to not nix things
[12:30] <infinity> nomed : What arch was your "ati driver breaks for me" bug on?
[12:31] <\sh> siretart: firefox needs the possibility to react as activeX control inside windows
[12:31] <siretart> \sh: AFAIU they DO have a plugin for firefox, that is using wine. The thing is that the main work for this is done via the original activeX dll.
=== Valandil [n=chrys@dslb-084-056-096-124.pools.arcor-ip.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:31] <siretart> \sh: so they basically want to ship a wrapper around that windows dll, which integrates into firefox
[12:32] <\sh> siretart: firefox/mozilla even. There is this Mozilla/Firefox ActiveX Control, which gives firefox/mozilla the possibility to react like an internet explorer activeX
[12:32] <\sh> siretart: what they need is 1. mfc42.dll
[12:32] <\sh> siretart: 2. the firefox/mozilla react as activeX control dll thingy
[12:33] <\sh> siretart: 1. is no way to ship standalone
[12:33] <nomed> infinity, it was not mine .. if i remeber well it was an i386 .. i'll contact you when i'll have some more specific infos ..
[12:33] <\sh> siretart: 2. is the alternative to ship mfc42.dll
[12:33] <nomed> i have a just note with the card name .. for the moment
[12:33] <infinity> nomed : Oh, if it's not yours, that's not much help.  Troubleshooting via proxy tends to lose a lot of useful info along the way.
[12:33] <nomed> i'm sorry
[12:33] <siretart> wait
[12:34] <\sh> siretart: without shipping it...let mozilla/firefox react as activeX plugin...so some installer apps don't use the iexplorer activeX
[12:34] <nomed> infinity, i'll probably go in that lab this evening .. and i'll be in front of it
[12:34] <siretart> AFAIK it is NOT mfc42.dll. This should be handled via wine internally. He talked about msvcp70.dll, for which they don't have a replacement yet
[12:35] <\sh> siretart: mfc42.dll is not handled internally by wine...u need it on your local system. there is no default mfc42.dll in windows
[12:35] <siretart> ic
[12:35] <\sh> siretart: because mfc42.dll belongs to ms visiual C/C++ and can only be shipped and distributed, if you have the c/c++ compiler
[12:35] <infinity> nomed : Alright, I may or may not be around, but if you can gather as much info as possible (mount the /var partition with sync, grab kernel nand X logs after rebooting from the crash, etc) and file a bug..
[12:36] <nomed> infinity, sure 
[12:36] <\sh> siretart: for iexplorer to work as activeX control, means as embedded app, you need mfc42.dll, by default it's shipped and distributed with iexplorer.
[12:36] <\sh> siretart: but now there are people, who are using windows, but not using iexplorer. like wine users
[12:37] <\sh> siretart: most probaly they don't even have a license of windows
[12:37] <siretart> \sh: say, who is this 'carlos' in your forward?
[12:38] <siretart> and what about this 'mike hearn'? are they affiliated with wine at all?
[12:38] <\sh> siretart: but they wan't to play counterstrike, so they need an alternative for installers and applications, which are using iexplorer as embedded browser
[12:38] <\sh> siretart: looks like
[12:39] <siretart> its not only counterstrike, there are quite many applications these days requiring that :(
[12:39] <\sh> siretart: the alternative is to let firefox/mozilla react as activeX control, which can be controled by the calling application..
[12:39] <\sh> siretart: most of the use cases of wine are "play windows games on linux"
[12:41] <siretart> \sh: wouldn't the obvious way be that the users installs his own copy of IE, und let the windows games use that?
[12:41] <pitti> fabbione: is your sparc buildd running? the heimdal and cyrus-sasl2 packages for sparc still keep db4.1 and krb4 in main :(
[12:41] <\sh> siretart: that is what the normal wine user is doing anyways..but it's hard to install in wine...you have to tweak stuff etc.
[12:42] <siretart> \sh: really? I think the last time I tried it was rather obvious and easy..
[12:42] <siretart> but I may be wrong
[12:42] <\sh> siretart: but there is a rational, why we/upstream should avoid shipping binary windows stuff...you have to support it, and if you depend on third party compiled windows source..how do you want to support it?
[12:44] <fabbione> pitti: cyrus-sasl is Dep-Wait
[12:44] <fabbione> pitti: it needs a new pcre
[12:44] <\sh> siretart: it would be different, if you can compile this tool out of the original source for wine...which means u need a compatible windows c/c++ compiler...thinking about mozilla and co. they are using the correct MS one I think
[12:44] <fabbione> pitti: it won't take long..
[12:44] <pitti> fabbione: ok, thanks for checking
[12:44] <fabbione> pitti: no problem at all
[12:45] <siretart> \sh: just as I told you before: they can ship any blob they want, IF the licence allows it. wine is using gpl, which requires that you ship the preferred source of modification which is most often the sourcecode. so as long as they ship the sourcecode to their .dlls and we can compile it using our toolchain, I see no problem. The case here is obvious a no-go.
[12:46] <siretart> \sh: now to the actual problem: WHO does actually try to ship the windows dll in question with wine?
[12:47] <siretart> I got the impression that was from an intersted user with few understanding about licences and no affiliation to wine upstream
[12:47] <\sh> siretart: again...this control is windows only...so you can compile it only with windows. see the faq (http://www.iol.ie/~locka/mozilla/mozilla.htm)
[12:47] <\sh> siretart: wine upstream
[12:47] <siretart> \sh: references please
[12:48] <\sh> siretart: see first post of scott ritchie, which is upstreams maintainer of the debian packages for all debian based distros...we're using his packages..which are good..and he works with wine upstream at all
=== siretart rereads scotts post a 3rd time
=== dredg [n=nsherida@80.169.137.162]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[12:50] <\sh> siretart: oh and yes...this activeX control of mozilla needs mfc dlls which are shipped, because the upstream maintainer of this tool has a license of msvc
[12:51] <\sh> siretart: they want...but right now they don't 
[12:53] <\sh> brb lunch...
[12:54] <pitti> elmo: please sync quagga
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[01:03] <Mithrandir> doko: what's the way to build java stuff this week?  Apparently, org.eclipse.jdt.core.JDTCompilerAdapter can't be found?
[01:04] <infinity> "make pkgDirStream (a bit) more complete"
=== infinity read that as "a bit more complex".
[01:07] <mvo> infinity: *tss*
[01:10] <pitti> infinity: what do you think about mysql 5.0? should we use it in dapper, or 4.1?
[01:10] <pitti> infinity: I'd like to clean up the packages using client libs soon
=== fabbione suggests to stay with 4.0
[01:10] <floam> I had to mkdir /etc/pcmcia to make the new pcmciautils to install
[01:10] <pitti> fabbione: 4.0? that's even older, and even breezy has 4.1 in main
[01:11] <fabbione> pitti: nope.. 4.1 server is in universe
[01:11] <pitti> mysql-dfsg-4.1 | 4.1.15-1ubuntu1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main Sources
[01:11] <fabbione> pitti: only a few libs from 4.1 are in main
[01:11] <pitti> that's enough to require support
[01:11] <fabbione> not for the binaries in universe
[01:11] <pitti> well, they have lower priority, right
[01:11] <fabbione> support as security i agree
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[01:13] <infinity> pitti : I'm leaning toward 5.0 at this point.  I'll have to tidy up some packaging stuff to make it the default in main (and punt 4.1 to universe, and 4.0 completely out)... But I /think/ that's the direction we're going to want to go.
[01:13] <sabdfl> alacarte. *much* better name than smeg
[01:13] <infinity> pitti : Have you eliminated client10 completely at this point?
[01:13] <Kamion> floam: thanks, fixing
[01:13] <pitti> infinity: yes :)
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[01:14] <sabdfl> seb128: what's wrong with gnomemeeting?
[01:14] <infinity> pitti : sweet.
[01:14] <floam> I notice a new ati-drivers is in, is nvidia-glx going to be fixed for the new locations?
[01:14] <Kamion> floam: (it worked fine if you already had pcmcia-cs installed, so I didn't notice)
[01:14] <infinity> pitti : Well, give me a week or so to come down hard on one side or the other of the MySQL fence, then we can mass rebuild the world to pick the One True Client Library.
[01:14] <pitti> infinity: modulo the sparc build of sasl2, which slacks behind
[01:14] <floam> Kamion: ha
[01:14] <floam> er
[01:14] <floam> s/ha/ah/
[01:14] <pitti> infinity: ok, makes sense
[01:15] <pitti> I'll leave that alone for now
[01:15] <infinity> floam : Yes, the drivers from linux-restricted-modules will be updated and fixed over the weekend.
[01:15] <floam> infinity: ah, cool
[01:15] <floam> infinity: if you're updating it to 7676, make sure you apply the patches to the kernel module zander made available
[01:15] <floam> iirc some are needed for =>2.6.14
[01:15] <infinity> pitti : I'm still tracking upstream bugs and such right now, s'all.  But things look pretty good to me.
[01:16] <floam> (zander works for nvidia)
[01:16] <floam> and s/=>/>=/... I'm just backwards tonight.
[01:20] <floam> (said patches are here: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=56150)
[01:20] <fabbione> Diziet: ping?
=== Aegir looks suspiciously at the updated xorg packages in synaptic
=== Aegir remembers what happened in Breezy with xorg
[01:20] <floam> Aegir: it's not as bad. but you might get input problems
=== mvo has the new xorg runing here
[01:20] <infinity> Aegir : The updates are mostly harmless.
[01:21] <floam> if you use the evdev driver, there are some issues
[01:21] <Aegir> Heh. Well, if it doesnt explode. I'll be all fine and dandy
[01:21] <floam> buttons 2 and 3 are swapped, and gnome-settings-daemon will crash. http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20052
[01:22] <Aegir> floam: Is that issue specificly with the evdev driver? Or is it common accross the whole thing?
[01:22] <floam> Aegir: I am not sure. Google shows people on gentoo getting it everwhere. The only people I've talked to are getting on with evdev, however
[01:22] <floam> I try not to spread heresay
[01:23] <floam> hearsay
[01:23] <floam> s/on/it/
[01:23] <Aegir> Heheh. Fair enough. I'll see what happens.
[01:24] <floam> and, I guess the freedesktop xorg bug says it happens everywhere too.
[01:24] <doko> Mithrandir: hmm, it should be in /usr/share/java/ecj.jar
[01:24] <floam> I just somehow doubt that everyone get's it, since I'd expect more whining
[01:24] <floam> gets
=== Aegir nods
[01:25] <Mithrandir> doko: well, I found that, any great ideas what to do when java stuff FTBFS?  I'm not too interested in fixing up java upstream code, I must say.
[01:26] <chmj> Mithrandir: I have some also, some missing jar file :-/ 
[01:29] <pitti> infinity: I updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperDuplicatedPackages with the current status
[01:30] <Aegir> Ahhwell. I suppose I'll know if xorg will break on my system after it apt-get's
[01:30] <pitti> infinity: getting rid of python 2.3 is not an easy task, half a gazillion packages b-dep on it
[01:30] <infinity> pitti : You're really having fun with this spec, aren't you? :)
[01:30] <Aegir> Suppose it's half the fun...
[01:30] <pitti> infinity: probably because I'm already having fun with supporting lots of libs and dups
[01:30] <pitti> :)
[01:30] <infinity> pitti : Killing python2.3 is something I fully intend to whine at doko to help with in a couple of weeks when his other tasks have settled a bit.
[01:30] <floam> Aegir: let me know if the new xorg works for you or not
[01:30] <pitti> infinity: and I have a faible for cleanliness
[01:31] <floam> Aegir: I wish you good luck, but I hope it does not work. :)
[01:31] <floam> the more people it's broke for the quicker it will be fixed :)
[01:31] <Aegir> floam: Will do. I'm a little intimidated by the bug system to file my own reports, I'll just bug you fellas ;P
[01:32] <floam> Aegir: it's not that difficult. The report is already filed, so you could just comment on the existing bug
[01:32] <Aegir> Well I'm using synaptics for this machine
[01:32] <Kamion> pitti: I'd wait for PythonRoadmap to land if I were you ... will make life a lot easier
[01:32] <Aegir> Laptop and all ;)
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[01:32] <pitti> Kamion: oh, I don't intend to do anything about it right now :) I just reviewed the wiki page and updated the status
[01:33] <floam> Aegir: that's ok. "Confirmed that it does/does not work on synaptics"  is useful
[01:33] <pitti> we only had two python security updates so far
[01:34] <Aegir> floam: Okay. I'd just prefer to not get in the way of you guys, but heh, so far, on this laptop, apart from the usual suspend/hibernate. Everything has worked flawlessly. Except for CPU scaling, which has always been somthing I've had to fiddle with (Since this laptop has essentially a desktop celleron D in it.)
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[01:35] <doko> pitti: right, do gnutls, readline, freetype and firefox-dev first, and pester infinity about subversion ... ;-P
[01:35] <pitti> doko: readline is done :) f-dev was speced yesterday with Diziet 
[01:36] <pitti> doko: what about freetype?:
[01:38] <infinity> doko : I'll do subversion RIGHT NOW, out of the kindness of my heart.
[01:39] <doko> pitti: I think that's the API desaster, not sure if we care about it
[01:40] <pitti> doko: hm, but AFAICS we only have one lib (freetype6), or am I blind?
[01:40] <Kamion> let's not merge freetype until it settles down in Debian
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[01:44] <floam> Aegir: ok
[01:44] <seb128> sabdfl: gnomemeeting: middle of the "libstdc++ allocator change" transition, it will be rebuilt with the new libs soon
[01:44] <floam> Aegir: have you completely killed X?
[01:44] <floam> restarted gdm?
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[01:45] <seb128> Kamion: did they change it?
[01:45] <Aegir> floam: Not yet, no, still updating. I only have a 512/128 line that I'm sharing with my fan-girl sister.
[01:45] <seb128> Kamion: because we already have freetype 2.1.10
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[01:51] <Kamion> seb128: dunno, I'm just going by Debian #314385
[01:51] <Kamion> seb128: which dholbach commented on and says affects Ubuntu too
[01:52] <seb128> Kamion: yeah, dholbach asked for the sync of the new freetype without looking on the RC so we got stucked in the middle of this ABI change
[01:52] <seb128> dunno what we should do
[01:52] <Kamion> ok, if we're already in the middle of it, we might as well go forward rather than back
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[01:52] <Kamion> I didn't check, thought we hadn't got into it yet
=== Aegir crosses his fingers and prepares to reboot
[01:55] <Riddell> buildd's still not building anything?
[01:55] <dholbach> i just wished there was a decision on the freetype disaster
[01:55] <infinity> Riddell : They're building fine, the logs just aren't syncing right now.
[01:56] <Riddell> hmm, right
[01:56] <ogra> dholbach, lets just fork and fix it *g*
[01:56] <dholbach> ogra: and maintain the delta - YAY! :)
[01:56] <ogra> dholbach, bah, delta ... force upstream to take ours ;)
[01:57] <\sh> Riddell: check the archives if your packages are in :)
[01:57] <seb128> dholbach: no easy decision to take
[01:57] <dholbach> seb128: no, absolutely not
[01:57] <seb128> we don't have the migration to testing issue Debian has though
[01:57] <seb128> I would just bump the shlibs and rebuild stuff against current package
[01:58] <infinity> D'oh!
[01:58] <infinity> The logs ARE syncing, just to the wrong path.
[01:58] <ogra> heh
[01:58] <infinity> Riddell : s/buildLogs// in lamont's public_html.
=== Aegir [n=richard@d220-238-120-93.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[01:59] <\sh> ROCK!
[01:59] <doko> Kamion: please process libpcre3 and libpcrecpp0 (source pcre3) in NEW (if it's still there), talked with vorlon and dato how to avoid this renaming. libpcre3 and libpcrecpp0 should be promoted to main then
[02:00] <fabbione> infinity: hahaha
[02:00] <Aegir> Hmm. Hasn't exploded.
[02:00] <doko> infinity: hmm, these are old as well
[02:01] <infinity> doko : The gcj-4.1 logs looked right to me.
[02:02] <doko> ohh, you're right
[02:03] <infinity> I don't have access to muck with stuff in lamont's ~, so I'll let him know and get him to fix it.
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[02:04] <infinity> Anyhow, it's not the end of the world for people to check the archive to see if stuff has been uploaded. :)
[02:04] <Aegir> Ahh, and that fixed synaptics
=== ogra adjusts his buildlogs to fetch from the right place 
[02:04] <Aegir> floam: Everything is good over here, I'll mention that in the comments
[02:04] <infinity> ogra : You mean the wrong place. :)
[02:04] <ogra> hehe
[02:04] <ogra> yes
[02:06] <pitti> jbailey: if you need me today for the locales stuff, I reserved the afternoon for you :)
[02:07] <jbailey> pitti: Yay!  when does your afternoon start?
[02:07] <Kamion> doko: done
[02:07] <jbailey> pitti: Are rather, how long from now? =)
[02:07] <Kamion> elmo: <lock>
[02:08] <pitti> jbailey: I only have lower-prio stuff planned, so I don't mind
[02:09] <doko> Kamion: thanks
[02:10] <Kamion> elmo: </lock> (was doing kernel overrides)
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[02:11] <Nafallo> ogra: http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/buildlogs/?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/l/linux-source-2.6.15/2.6.15-4.5/linux-source-2.6.15_2.6.15-4.5_20051125-0216-amd64-failed.gz <-- wrong path :-P
[02:12] <doko> doko chmj: did you adjust the ant home dir?
[02:12] <doko> doko syncing from debian means now:
[02:12] <doko> doko - replace the build dependency libant1.6-java with ant
[02:12] <doko> doko - use /usr/share/ant instead of /usr/share/ant1.6
[02:12] <doko> doko - the jar ecj-antadapter.jar is now found inside the ecj.jar
[02:12] <ogra> oh, yes, i forgot the detailed ones ... i never use them myself... only the overvew ...
[02:12] <doko> Mithrandir: ^^^
[02:13] <doko> and other uploads must do this as well
[02:13] <Mithrandir> doko: what does the last line imply?
[02:13] <Mithrandir> as in, what do I need to change for the antadapter?
[02:14] <infinity> So, do we want subversion 1.3.0 (currently in RC, should release in late December or early January), or do we want 1.2.3?
[02:14] <Kamion> Nafallo: no the problem is that lamont's build-log-saving script is saving to the wrong place; he's been told about it
[02:14] <doko> ecj-antadapter.jar should be removed from the classpath
[02:14] <infinity> I can do either, as we've been preparing both in Debian's subversion SVN repo.
[02:14] <Mithrandir> doko: when it's never been added, that should be fine?
[02:14] <Nafallo> Kamion: yepp, and therefore the path was wrong atm :-)
[02:14] <doko> yes, I think so
[02:14] <Mithrandir> doko: do I need to set DEB_ANT_COMPILER explicitly?
[02:14] <ogra> Kamion, yes, but i just adjusted the paths for my buildlog script, Nafallo just pointed that out
[02:14] <jbailey> pitti: I guess I'm not clear.  It's a little past 8am here.  I don't know if you mean now, or several hours from now. =)
[02:14] <ogra> Nafallo, fixed
[02:14] <Kamion> Nafallo: telling ogra about it might encourage him to "fix" it though which would break later ...
[02:15] <Mithrandir> doko: and JAVA_HOME := /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj is correct?
[02:15] <Nafallo> ogra: thanx :-)
[02:15] <infinity> doko : Opinion, since you seem to care deeply? :)
[02:15] <ogra> Kamion, indeed, i have to readjust it later ;)
[02:15] <Nafallo> Kamion: well, it was he that fixed the main page of his logs so... ;-)
[02:16] <ogra> i'll have to make the path a centralized variable ... 
[02:16] <doko> Mithrandir: yes
[02:16] <Nafallo> ogra: :-)
[02:17] <doko> infinity: I want a subversion which builds, and is converted to db4.3. if you think, that we can live with RC, that's ok. At least we ourself won't run a server with the new version
[02:18] <doko> infinity: but maybe doublecheck with BenC
[02:18] <infinity> Ben doesn't do SVN stuff anymore.
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[02:19] <infinity> Argh, liferea has become so painfully unstable lately.
=== infinity sighs.
=== Treenaks hugs his private planet install
[02:19] <seb128> thanks to firefox 1.5 ?
[02:19] <infinity> Not sure.  I hitnk it got unstable earlier.
[02:20] <infinity> I've not been paying attention.
[02:20] <dholbach> i think it's firefox
[02:20] <dholbach> the problems occured to me just today
[02:20] <infinity> Oh well, time to go destabilise more stuff!
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[02:21] <Nafallo> stable here, but then I use gtkhtml-renderer :-)
[02:21] <jbailey> seb128: It might be.  ephy is significantly less happy with the ff-1.5 backend
[02:22] <Aegir> Woah dear god... Xorg 7, EXA, composite. Smoking mother of crap... This actually works...
[02:22] <seb128> jbailey: crash ? 
[02:22] <seb128> Aegir: EXA? what's this?
[02:22] <jbailey> seb128: Leak, I think.  Suddenly my machine will be swapping like mad and killall epiphany is the best solution.
[02:23] <jbailey> seb128: I have 6gb in this machine. =)
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[02:23] <seb128> jbailey: uh, not nice
[02:23] <Aegir> seb128: Enabled EXA, got Xorg7 in, laptop has a radeon 9000 IGP. It all works pretty damn flash.
[02:23] <jbailey> seb128: I don't have anything clear enough to give you a bug report.
[02:23] <Aegir> Big improvement over no exa and xorg6.8
[02:23] <seb128> k
[02:23] <Riddell> infinity: is there somewhere I can find the build logs?
[02:23] <seb128> jbailey: if you get anything let me know, I'll try to keep epiphany open
[02:24] <seb128> jbailey: I tend to ctrl-W my browser quickly and reopen all the time, so they don't run for hours
[02:24] <Nafallo> Riddell: people.ubuntu.com/~ogre/buildlogs
[02:24] <Nafallo> s/ogre/ogra/
[02:26] <Riddell> clever ogra
[02:26] <ogra> i tink we should move it to siretarts tiber one day .... the unzipping part still runs on my private server which is on heavy load anyway
[02:27] <siretart> ogra: I missed the discussion, what are you talking about?
[02:27] <ogra> siretart, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/buildlogs/
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[02:28] <siretart> ah, sure
[02:28] <ogra> siretart, if you click a buildlog it gets unzipped and formatted on the fly
[02:28] <siretart> thats nice, yes
[02:28] <ogra> that part isnt running on people because i have no exec cgi there
[02:28] <siretart> we can arrange something on tiber, no problem
[02:28] <ogra> great
[02:29] <jbailey> seb128: Yeah, I tend to run mine for days. =)
[02:29] <jbailey> seb128: I also look at things like large glibc logs and what.
[02:29] <jbailey> whatnot, rather.
[02:32] <pitti> jbailey: I wanted to say "I'm ready whenever you are" :)
[02:33] <jbailey> pitti: Excellent!  Does 20m from now work for you?  I'd like to start off by phone if we could.  Looking trhough source files and chatting on irc at the same time is teh suck.
[02:33] <pitti> jbailey: WFM
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[02:34] <fabbione> Diziet: ping?
[02:35] <mvo> doko: is libsigc++-2.0-0c2a still waiting in NEW?
[02:35] <pitti> mvo: libsigcx-* is
[02:36] <pitti> mvo: but that seems to be from two hours ago
[02:36] <doko> mvo: please ask Kamion/mdz/elmo. I cannot look into NEW. but it looks like it's in the archive (and in main)
[02:36] <doko> 2.0.16-1ubuntu1
[02:37] <mvo> doko: ah, ok. thanks (and sorry for bothering you)
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[02:38] <fabbione> pitti: net-snmp on the way
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[02:50] <fabbione> pitti: rock and roll..
[02:50] <pitti> fabbione: thanks
[02:51] <fabbione> pitti: we might have some fun tho
[02:51] <fabbione>    * Added conflicts against all packages using libsnmp5 due to upstream
[02:51] <fabbione>      changing the binary API without increasing SONAME. See: #322500
[02:51] <fabbione>  .
[02:51] <pitti> fabbione: right, it's snmp9 now
[02:51] <fabbione> yeps
[02:52] <pitti> fabbione: i. e. does it conflict to libsnmp5, or to all packages which depend on it?
[02:52] <Lathiat> eh i hate that
[02:52] <pitti> fabbione: the former would make sense, but the latter?
[02:52] <infinity> The conflict should have gone away when the SOVER was bumped to 9.
[02:52] <fabbione> pitti: dunno.. didn't check
[02:52] <infinity> The conflict was a Maintainer Idiocy that I assume was reverted.
[02:52] <infinity> vorlon and I smacked him around furiously for it at the time.
[02:53] <fabbione> infinity: Jochen? no.. 
[02:53] <fabbione> i doubt
[02:53] <infinity> Anyhow there's no reason for the conflicts at all.
[02:53] <infinity> Our libsnmp5 was never broken (I made sure of that in breezy), and libsnmp9 is correctly reversioned.
[02:53] <pitti> fabbione: hpijs hplip libsnmp-perl libstonith0 php5-snmp  snmp snmpd libsnmp5-dev
[02:54] <pitti> fabbione: these are the packages in main that use it
[02:54] <infinity> So we've dodged the "oops, I uploaded a broken library" fiasco.
[02:54] <fabbione> well i did a merge
[02:54] <fabbione> so if the last pkg is correct as infinity says, i am ok
[02:54] <pitti> fabbione: the latter three are from the package itself, I think
[02:54] <infinity> Right, but you merged to snmp9.
[02:54] <infinity> If you merged libsnmp9, all is well.
[02:54] <fabbione> i did
[02:54] <infinity> We didn't see the broken package in Ubuntu at all.
[02:54] <fabbione> i did take the latest debian verion
[02:54] <infinity> So, carry on. :)
[02:54] <fabbione> and patched
[02:54] <fabbione> with our stuff
[02:54] <fabbione> (alsmo
[02:55] <fabbione> and uploaded
[02:55] <pitti> fabbione: with 'it' being libsnmp5
=== infinity does an SVN test build.
[02:55] <fabbione> libsnmp9_5.2.1.2-4ubuntu1_amd64.deb libsnmp9-dev_5.2.1.2-4ubuntu1_amd64.deb  <-
[02:55] <infinity> pitti : Yes, those all need to be rebuilt against snmp9, no big deal.
[02:55] <fabbione> from my local build
[02:55] <pitti> so we have to rebuild ~ 5 packages, that's manageable
[02:55] <infinity> fabbione : Excellent.
[02:56] <fabbione> yeah
[02:56] <infinity> pitti : php4 and php5 already have the right build-deps, so a quick rebuild upload will make them happy.
[02:56] <infinity> (They are set to libsnmp9-dev | libsnmp-dev)
[02:56] <infinity> Some others may be in the same boat.
[02:56] <fabbione> pitti: pcre3 is in the queue on sparc. if i don't crash before it builds, cyrus will be able to build within today
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[03:01] <mdke> dholbach, did you get my mail about -docs?
[03:02] <mdke> dholbach, if you like, we can have another chat this evening, and get ready to upload something, i think
[03:03] <dholbach> mdke: yes, got the mail, thank you
[03:05] <doko> Kamion, mdz: please process libarts1c2a in NEW
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[03:07] <Kamion> doko: done
[03:07] <tepsipakki> fabbione: I think why the partman-auto-lvm doesn't work with preseeding
[03:08] <xhaker> are the 2.6.15-4 kernel packages built? and,,, do you need testers?
[03:08] <Kamion> xhaker: only on i386
[03:08] <tepsipakki> fabbione: because I have to preseed partman-auto/disk and that skips p-a-l altogether
[03:09] <xhaker> i only see ppc on BenC p.u.c
[03:09] <tepsipakki> fabbione: if p-a/d is not preseeded then it gives me the choice to use the disk for LVM
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[03:10] <fabbione> tepsipakki: well that's not a pal bug )
[03:10] <Kamion> xhaker: powerpc failed to build
[03:11] <infinity> doko : Hrm, okay, some quick testing shows 1.3.0 isn't quite ready yet, uploading 1.2.3 in a bit. :)
[03:11] <xhaker> Kamion, where are the built packages then?
[03:11] <tepsipakki> fabbione: no, it
[03:11] <tepsipakki> uh
[03:12] <Kamion> xhaker: FAILED to build
[03:12] <tepsipakki> it's auto.d/99initial_auto that needs tweaking, right?
[03:12] <Kamion> tepsipakki: doubt it
[03:12] <xhaker> kamion nvm.. i was talking about the other archs.. and i found it on the repos :S i should look better
[03:14] <mvo> Riddell: can we please remove kynaptic from the archive? 
[03:14] <tepsipakki> kamion: ok, suggestions? ;)
[03:14] <fabbione> tepsipakki: you cannot preseed 2 things that do the same thing
[03:14] <fabbione> they both do partitioning
[03:14] <fabbione> and one has precedence over the other
[03:14] <fabbione> it's not a bug
[03:15] <Kamion> tepsipakki: no, I don't understand it well enough
[03:15] <Kamion> tepsipakki: generally as much as possible needs to go into the recipe format for partman preseeding to work
[03:16] <tepsipakki> ok, so the recipe format needs to support it, which breezy doesn't but dapper will soon?
[03:16] <Kamion> er I'm just making a general comment, I have no idea what actually breaks when you try to preseed p-a-l
[03:17] <Kamion> hmm, actually, you might be right about initial_auto
[03:17] <tepsipakki> well I'm not satisfied before it is possible to install to soft-raid-mirror with lvm ;)
[03:17] <Kamion> oh god it's all gross
[03:17] <Kamion> maybe we need a partman-auto/disk_lvm or something
[03:18] <Kamion> I don't consider lvm preseeding a hugely high priority though, since most people don't deploy hundreds of machines all with LVM
[03:19] <fabbione> Kamion: doesn't preseeding works ala db_set template answer and lower it's priority?
[03:19] <Mithrandir> lvm preseeding sounds more like "custom lvm receipe" than a traditional preseeding scenario.
[03:19] <fabbione> Mithrandir: we do have partman-auto-lvm
[03:19] <Kamion> fabbione: yes but it's horribly inconvenient to preseed the partman main menu question
[03:19] <fabbione> Kamion: ok..
[03:19] <Kamion> because it's a long translated string
[03:20] <Mithrandir> fabbione: yes, which can be given custom receipes, I assume.
[03:20] <Kamion> and it's not lowering the priority, it's setting the seen flag
[03:20] <fabbione> that might be fixed alrady by your code change to restart partman
[03:20] <tepsipakki> kamion: well I'm just trying to show people that "see, U. _can_ do this, keep your RHEL/SuSE/etc out" ;)
[03:20] <fabbione> Mithrandir: no. only the one from partman-auto
[03:20] <Kamion> I find it extremely unlikely
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[03:20] <fabbione> Kamion: i will have to check on that
[03:20] <Kamion> tepsipakki: sure, just saying, low priority
[03:20] <Mithrandir> pitti: hmm, I'm getting tired here, but I have a sane-backends merge done now.  Want to review it before I upload and break the world?
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[03:20] <fabbione> i noticed that we did land in 2 different menu's after the auto run
[03:20] <Kamion> tepsipakki: (it would be nice for kickstart compatibility too, I know)
[03:21] <fabbione> Kamion: partman-auto was just asking yes/no/goback while pal was landing in the full partition menu
[03:21] <fabbione> that might be the reason
[03:21] <Kamion> fabbione: this is earlier, it's at the partman main menu
[03:21] <fabbione> ok
[03:21] <Kamion> before p-a-l even starts up
[03:21] <tepsipakki> should I cry for help on debian-boot?
[03:21] <Kamion> tepsipakki: reproduce your problem on Debian first; their partman is different
[03:21] <fabbione> tepsipakki: it won't help much
[03:21] <tepsipakki> kamion: ok
[03:22] <fabbione> Kamion: not really...
[03:22] <fabbione> ah
[03:22] <fabbione> partman
[03:22] <fabbione> sorry
[03:22] <fabbione> misread
[03:22] <Kamion> fabbione: yes, really. auto.d doesn't exist in Debian's partman; if you describe a problem in that script then it will confuse people
[03:22] <Kamion> (the same code is in a different place, I just shuffled it for other reasons)
[03:22] <dilinger> i would love lvm preseeding :)
[03:22] <fabbione> Kamion: i misread partman with partman-auto
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[03:23] <fabbione> dilinger: ehhe
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[03:24] <dilinger> we currently partition stuff using a hardcoded recipe that doesn't allow us to resize.  it works, but lvm would allow us to decide how to allocate space much better (since all the machines we set up tend to have the same partitioning, but different space between the /var/cache/openafs partition and /local)
[03:26] <fabbione> dilinger: or just make a custom recipe and preseed that one
[03:26] <fabbione> if you put the right values you can land with what you want
[03:28] <dilinger> fabbione: we do have a custom recipe
[03:29] <dilinger> the one(s) we use fit maybe 75% of our machines
[03:29] <dilinger> the other 25% require special disk layouts due to things they happen to be running
[03:30] <dilinger> so it's an extra few steps after installation, repartitioning, rebooting, etc
[03:30] <dilinger> with lvm, we wouldn't have to reboot; we could even script it to just ask us what sizes to use if we want to repartition
[03:31] <fabbione> dilinger: p-a-l is what you want
[03:31] <dilinger> p-a-l
[03:31] <dilinger> ?
[03:31] <fabbione> it accepts custom recipes
[03:31] <fabbione> partman-auto-lvm
[03:31] <dilinger> ah
[03:31] <dilinger> cool, i'll take a look
[03:31] <fabbione> and that's what we are discussing :)
[03:31] <fabbione> dilinger: i am changing it a bit for dapper
[03:31] <fabbione> but it works in breezy
[03:32] <fabbione> it creates a separate /boot if your recipe doesn't have one
[03:32] <fabbione> (about 200MB) and move the rest on lvm
[03:32] <fabbione> but it doesn't resize for you
[03:32] <dilinger> our recipe has a 50MB /boot
[03:32] <fabbione> dilinger: just boot the install CD and select Erase disk and use LVM:
[03:32] <fabbione> that's it :)
[03:32] <fabbione> dilinger: i wanted to be slightly more safe
[03:33] <tepsipakki> I just installed a machine that had a custom recipe and that worked fine, just that it had to ask me to use LVM.. I'll try to have a look at it
[03:33] <Yagisan> fabbione: /boot seems ok on lvm for me
[03:33] <fabbione> dilinger: but if there is a definition for /boot in the recipe it will respect it
[03:33] <tepsipakki> yagisan: grub doesn't like it
[03:33] <fabbione> Yagisan: no, there no bootloaders that can safely boot from lvm
[03:34] <fabbione> and lilo breaks in a bunch of situations
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[03:35] <Yagisan> fabbione: thanks for the warning
=== Mithrandir floodpings pitti 
[03:38] <ogra> Riddell, you dont build dailies for kubuntu ? 
=== ogra was just looking through the reports
[03:39] <Riddell> ogra: they don't seem to get built
[03:39] <ogra> hmm
[03:40] <Riddell> Kamion: any idea why?
[03:40] <dilinger> fabbione: safe?  pfft!
[03:40] <dilinger> ;p
[03:40] <Riddell> not that they could be built just now
[03:41] <ogra> yeah, noted that all my kdeedu stuff is broken
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[03:41] <dilinger> fabbione: since we manually load the preseed file via preseed/url, it's pretty safe for us; there's a bit of manual enter key pressing that's required before it starts erasing hard drives :)
[03:41] <Riddell> ogra: oh, fancy packaging ocaml-facile?
[03:41] <Riddell> ogra: it's needed by 3.5 kalzium
[03:41] <Treenaks> 3.5 Kalzium? is that like 120% Alcohol?
[03:41] <fabbione> dilinger: yeah that should work
[03:41] <ogra> Riddell, havent looked deeper into it, i was just doing my daily CD build check
[03:42] <ogra> Riddell, but kalzium is one of them... seems the whole suite isnt installable... kdegames too
[03:42] <Riddell> ogra: kde won't be installable just now, c++ transition
[03:42] <ogra> yup
[03:43] <ogra> was epecting this ...
[03:43] <ogra> *expecting
[03:47] <Kamion> Riddell: one sec, I'll check the log
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[03:50] <mhz> mako: ping?
[03:50] <mhz> jdub: ping?
[03:50] <dilinger> mm
[03:50] <dilinger> http://syslinux.zytor.com/memdisk.php
[03:51] <mvo> elmo: can you please remove kynaptic from dapper? it's unmaintained and superseded
=== mvo -> food
[03:53] <Kamion> Riddell: another stupid directory permissions issue; should be fixed now
[03:54] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks
[03:55] <Riddell> infinity: would you be able to give back kdelibs for compile?
[03:55] <\sh> dholbach: ping
[03:56] <infinity> Riddell : What's in it for me? :)
[03:56] <infinity> (Yes)
[03:56] <\sh> dholbach: we are in need of gtkmm2.4 merge plus transition...thx :)
[03:57] <seb128> he started working on this
[03:57] <seb128> glibmm FTBFS due to deprecated functions
[03:57] <\sh> ah
[03:57] <seb128> I guess he'll keep working on it when he's back from lunch
[03:57] <\sh> no prob .. he told me something about glibmm..but I didn't know it was related to gtkmm
[03:58] <seb128> gtk Build-Depends on glib
[03:58] <seb128> same for the mm variant
[03:58] <\sh> so I can stop working on gtkmm2.4 stuff now
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[04:00] <Nafallo> morning BenC :-)
[04:02] <Riddell> infinity: I'll give you a big snog
[04:03] <infinity> I'll pass. :)
[04:03] <doko> infinity: please requeue kdelibs
[04:03] <dholbach> \sh: i'm working on it - i was out for something to eat
[04:03] <infinity> doko : Already done, Riddell just asked.
[04:03] <doko> ahh
[04:03] <Riddell> doko: now you have to give infinity 
[04:03] <Riddell> doko: now you have to give infinity a big snog
[04:04] <infinity> Kamion : Does gcj-4.1 need binary NEW lovin'?
[04:06] <infinity> Ugh, someone needs to buy me more bandwidth for Christmas.
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[04:06] <\sh> dholbach: forget it :) 
[04:06] <Kamion> infinity: yeah, I've been constructively ignoring it :)
[04:06] <dholbach> \sh: no, i won't, i'm working on it :)
[04:07] <mako> mhz: hey dude
[04:07] <\sh> dholbach: forget what I said :)
[04:07] <infinity> Kamion : Ahh, carry on, then. :)
[04:07] <mhz> mako: pong
[04:07] <mako> mhz: i'm actually on a call right now, i bet i know what you want and i'll tend to it post-call
[04:07] <mhz> ikis
[04:07] <mhz> okis
[04:07] <mhz> mako: thx
[04:09] <mhz> highvoltage: i was told by ogra that he wasn't sure Ubuntu Cd's will allow users to install anyways, even if their X didn't work. You know if that's so?
[04:09] <mhz> highvoltage: won't users be able to install before entering LiveCD mode?
[04:10] <highvoltage> mhz: i think that you need a running X-server to install from a liveCD with Ubuntu express
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[04:10] <BenC> Nafallo: good morning
=== ubuntu is now known as rubenv
[04:12] <Kamion> highvoltage: s/need/will need/ - UE doesn't work ytet
[04:12] <Kamion> yet
[04:12] <Kamion> that's accurate for the moment, although eventually we'll probably do a non-X mode
[04:13] <highvoltage> Kamion: right
[04:14] <mhz> highvoltage: then, you mean that many users will not be able to install ubuntu UNLESS they can get X working?
[04:14] <mhz> highvoltage: but why?
[04:14] <ogra> mhz, why shouldnt they ? 
[04:15] <ogra> X works out of the box on most systems (90% or more ?)
[04:15] <mhz> ogra: ubuntu is not "just" GNOME, it's Gnu/Linux
[04:15] <mdke> it would be good to allow users to install from booting the cd, without getting the livecd working first, i have to agree with mhz 
[04:15] <Kamion> mhz: correct, for dapper; Ubuntu Express is a huge chunk of work and I don't have time to commit to making it work in non-X mode too
[04:15] <Kamion> mhz: however the install CD (in roughly its current form) will still be supported; we just won't be sending it out in shipit, for cost reasons
[04:15] <mdke> ouch, perhaps ubuntu express should have been dapper+1
[04:16] <Kamion> sigh
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[04:16] <Kamion> no
[04:16] <Lathiat> because then it will be dapper+2
[04:16] <Lathiat> and then +3
[04:16] <Kamion> the install CD will still be supported, if you need it
[04:16] <highvoltage> mhz: ubuntu users should still be able to install from a normal ubuntu cd, afaik, all they need to do is type 'server' from the isolinux prompt
[04:16] <\sh> Kamion: how far until we can think about a qt ui for the installer?
[04:16] <Lathiat> and then +4 :)
[04:16] <Kamion> \sh: KubuntuExpress
[04:16] <\sh> Kamion: not approved :)
[04:16] <ogra> mhz, whats the prob with using "server" from a normal install iso and add your stuff (wmaker ?) ?
[04:16] <\sh> Kamion: looks like drafting :)
[04:16] <Kamion> \sh: that's because it's not past Drafting yet
[04:16] <mdke> Lathiat, no, it would be how ever long it takes to get it right
[04:16] <Kamion> if the drafter sends it to me, I'll probably approve it with minor tweaks
[04:17] <Kamion> highvoltage: there won't be space on the live CD for the server install mode
[04:17] <Lathiat> mdke: or it'l just get ignored because its not a priority
[04:17] <\sh> Kamion: that's why I'm asking ...
[04:17] <mdke> Lathiat, but Ubuntu express is a priority afaics
[04:17] <ogra> mhz, that even works with edubuntu (even i want to rename "server" to something else)
[04:17] <highvoltage> Kamion: but there will still be an ubuntu cd with d-i on it, right?
[04:17] <Kamion> highvoltage: yes
[04:17] <Lathiat> mdke: sure but if it was pushed to dapper+1 i bet it wouldnt be until dapper+1 :)
[04:17] <highvoltage> Kamion: cool, that's what i meant.
[04:17] <mhz> mkde: thx for understanding the "I like ubuntu stability so I use it, but don't force to use X to install" IMHO, one of the Linux traditions is exactly that you do not need X to install X stuff, right Kamion ?
[04:17] <Kamion> highvoltage: (although d-i is part of Ubuntu Express too)
[04:18] <Yagisan> ogra: perhaps bare instead of server ?
[04:18] <mhz> ogra: yup, edubuntu-server ?
[04:18] <ogra> Yagisan, i thought about "core"
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[04:18] <ogra> mhz, nope, thats a metapackage
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[04:18] <Kamion> mhz: I already said to you that I intended to do a non-X version of the live CD installer eventually, but it is unlikely to happen for dapper
[04:18] <mhz> ogra: yup, i forgot... hmm, edubuntu-environment ?
[04:19] <ogra> Kamion, wrt metapackages, the new update script is really cool :)
[04:19] <mhz> Kamion: yup, indeed
[04:19] <Kamion> ogra: good, glad you like it
[04:19] <mdke> Kamion, but for dapper, an X-only livecd install was good enough?
[04:19] <Kamion> elmo: please sync console-common; ok to override
[04:19] <ogra> seems to run a lot more stable and the otput is far more readable and informative :)
[04:19] <Kamion> mdke: X-only live CD install sent out in shipit, traditional installer available by download
[04:20] <mhz> Lathiat: hehehe
=== rubenv wonders why the dapper pkg lists don't show the last two versions of all pkgs
[04:20] <Kamion> mdke: sending out two CDs is a major cash drain for Canonical, so a live CD installer is important
[04:20] <rubenv> that would save me from downloading all Xorg packages by hand now :-)
[04:21] <Yagisan> IIRC as long as X has vesa and vga drivers it *should* work on all x86/amd64 machines
[04:21] <mdke> Kamion, sure. I just would have thought (without knowing anything about the technical side) that keeping the existing installer on Ubuntu-express would have been possible.
[04:21] <Kamion> mdke: I'm afraid that's not possible; the traditional installer requires an archive-like structure
[04:21] <mhz> ogra: I didn't mean it for wmaker :D I meant it because not-powerful PC's can take way to long to install from LiveCD in X mode
[04:21] <Kamion> (on the CD)
[04:21] <Kamion> mdke: we will be reusing a fair bit of installer code in Ubuntu Express though
[04:21] <ogra> mhz, i wouldnt use the liveCD at all on such systems
[04:22] <Kamion> mhz: such systems would be a suitable place to download and use the install CD
[04:22] <mdke> Kamion, shame
[04:22] <highvoltage> mhz: ogra is right, booting any live cd from an old system is awful
[04:23] <Yagisan> mhz: I put a live cd in a p2 233, 128MB box once - took about 30mins to start
[04:23] <seb128> Kamion: if I upload a new gconf with a new binary package within half an hour you will be around can accept/promote it? The gconf transition is not trivial and I prefer to be around when it happens :)
[04:23] <elmo> Kamion: nothing to sync?
[04:23] <highvoltage> any PC not older than 3-4 years should run a live cd with graphical installer fine.
[04:23] <Kamion> elmo: oh, oops, sorry
[04:24] <mhz> Kamion: indeed, however, our plans in Chile are focused on "agressive" promoting. That means we'll be doing many Ubuntu stuff related. UbuntuFestDays (install + howto fests), EdubuntuTours, UbuntuArtWorkContest, etc. So a liveCD we can hand in and teach you to install it is ecxcellent
[04:24] <Kamion> elmo: hmm, apparently I already asked you two weeks ago, oh well
[04:25] <Kamion> obviously forgot to close the bug
[04:26] <Kamion> seb128: sure
[04:26] <mhz> highvoltage: i know, iknow. it is just that when Devel guys informed that LiveCD will also allow you to install, we thought it was excellent! Now, if I use a LiveCD for a show, and then tell new users, "take it, you'll use same CD" I am also giving them more confidence because it is the same "item" I used.
[04:26] <Kamion> seb128: you'll have to ping me though, I'll probably be on the phone
[04:27] <Kamion> mhz: it *may* be possible to add a traditional non-X netboot install to the live CD; obviously that will require a lot more bandwidth though
[04:27] <highvoltage> mhz: yeo
[04:27] <seb128> Kamion: ok, thanks
[04:27] <highvoltage> (yep)
[04:27] <Kamion> but that shouldn't take a lot of extra CD space
[04:27] <mhz> highvoltage: hehe
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[04:28] <mhz> Kamion: well, np. I understand your points and I hope you see that i dont't wanna be a pian in the neck, i'm just clarifying stuff so I do not lie to users tomorrow. We have our first Install Fest with TV coverage :D
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[04:29] <ogra> mhz, fyi we'll most likely not press edubuntu liveCDs
=== mhz would be very happy with "command line" install and "GUI install"
[04:29] <mhz> ogra: why now?
[04:30] <mhz> ogra: ahh, edubuntu livecd?
[04:30] <ogra> mhz, because we have a limited budget ...
[04:30] <mhz> ok
[04:30] <mhz> but edubuntu cds?
[04:30] <ogra> you can download the live iso, but i dont think w'll press it
[04:30] <ogra> i hope so
[04:31] <mhz> ogra: so you say that you won't press edubuntu livecd nor edubuntu install cds?
[04:32] <ogra> i said i hope we'll have install CDs but i'm pretty sure we wont have pressed live CDs
[04:32] <mhz> ogra: yup, sorry. I didn type all
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[04:35] <mhz> ogra: after a 2 1/2 hour meeting with Pablo last Wednesday, I presented to him and his (useme.cl) pals, a list of Why's they could help us on Edubuntu ArtWork. I gave many arguments. They got very motivated, and they felt very cool about knowing his work would be shiped worlwide. I dont like to give people hopes that will not happen just like i describe them :(
[04:36] <infinity> doko, Riddell : subversion_1.2.3dfsg1-2ubuntu1_source.changes ACCEPTED
[04:36] <infinity> doko, Riddell : You can stop bugging me now. :)
[04:36] <mhz> ogra: I undersatand the limited budget, but I based my presentation on the info I had by that time: "we did not ship breezy but we will ship dapper"
=== Riddell gives infinity a big snog
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[04:37] <mhz> and I didnt say "we may ship dapper"
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[04:37] <dholbach> Riddell: is this the snogging day?
[04:37] <mhz> or we "might"
[04:37] <ogra> mhz, its *very* likely we'll have a pressed CD, but i can always be hit by a bus etc ...
[04:37] <mhz> hehehehe
[04:37] <mhz> ogra: clone yourself
[04:37] <mhz> :D
[04:37] <Riddell> dholbach: only for infinity, don't get your hopes up
[04:38] <ogra> mhz, i dont like to say its definitive unless we actually have a CD :)
[04:38] <dholbach> :)
[04:38] <mhz> and send that clone out of the house while you stay safe
[04:38] <ogra> to run around and look for busses to hit him ? 
[04:39] <Nafallo> while the real ogra has a jumbo-jet coming down from the roof or something? :-)
[04:39] <ogra> lol
[04:39] <mhz> ogra: me neither, but I really needed to convince them. Tecnocimiento "invasion" plan in Chile is agressive and Useme guys do very cool work everytime we get together on brainstorming sessions
[04:39] <doko> infinity: oh, you mean, I can start on something else? like the breezy test rebuild?
[04:39] <Nafallo> s/from/through/
[04:39] <\sh> real ogra? who is an unreal ogra?
[04:39] <ogra> \sh, a clone
[04:39] <doko> \sh unreal ogra's are called ogre's
[04:39] <ogra> hehe
[04:40] <\sh> oh ok...I was thinking about something, really something serious
[04:40] <mdke> dholbach, got a few minutes now?
[04:40] <dholbach> mdke: a few, yes
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[04:41] <infinity> Riddell : kdelibs is still FTBFS.  Have you actually tested this? :)
[04:42] <Riddell> infinity: is the buildlog somewhere?
[04:42] <infinity> Probably not yet.
[04:43] <infinity> 'sin_addr' in something not a structure or union
[04:43] <infinity> make[5] : *** [cups-util.lo]  Error 1
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[04:43] <infinity> Erm.  That would have gone so much better without all the leading slashes.
[04:43] <infinity>  /build/buildd/kdelibs-3.5-rc2/./kdeprint/cups/cupsdconf2/cups-util.c:18: warning: no previous prototype for 'cupsGetConf'
[04:43] <infinity>  /build/buildd/kdelibs-3.5-rc2/./kdeprint/cups/cupsdconf2/cups-util.c:221: warning: no previous prototype for 'cupsPutConf'
[04:43] <infinity>  /build/buildd/kdelibs-3.5-rc2/./kdeprint/cups/cupsdconf2/cups-util.c: In function 'cups_local_auth':/build/buildd/kdelibs-3.5-rc2/./kdeprint/cups/cupsdconf2/cups-util.c:445: error: request for member
[04:43] <infinity> 'sin_addr' in something not a structure or union
[04:43] <infinity> make[5] : *** [cups-util.lo]  Error 1
[04:43] <infinity> There.
[04:44] <Riddell> infinity: hmm, that's new
[04:44] <\sh> Riddell: hurry up to fix it..I need to rebuild kde universe ,)
[04:44] <dholbach> "\sh rebuilds the universe"
[04:45] <\sh> oh well...what will I do, when I have to give away this nifty nc6000 ... 
[04:45] <ogra> \sh, we'll find something for you ...
[04:45] <ogra> \sh, i still have some PI 133 around ... distcc will help :)
[04:45] <\sh> ogra: a nice place under one of many bridges of cologne? please check if there is wlan 
[04:46] <\sh> ogra: prust
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[04:51] <seb128> Kamion: I've just uploaded gconf2 2.12.1-4ubuntu1, gconf2-common is new and to promote to main (depends of gconf2)
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[04:53] <\sh> hmm...glitch in the amd64 buildd? http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/b/beast/0.6.6-2ubuntu1/beast_0.6.6-2ubuntu1_20051125-1538-amd64-failed.gz
[04:54] <\sh> same for cppopt...
[04:55] <\sh> aeh cppopt
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[04:55] <Nafallo> same for everything that deps debhelper, no? :-)
[04:57] <lamont-away> mind you, I can't see from reading the script _how_ it's doing bad things, but I've tweaked it again to be nicer
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[04:58] <Nafallo> lamont-away: is it back at the old URL now? (so ogra can tweak his pages again)
[04:58] <Nafallo> :-)
[04:59] <lamont-away> nuking the extra copy at the wrong url, so yes.
[04:59] <lamont-away> now, as to whether or not it'll _stay_ there...
[05:00] <\sh> hehe
[05:00] <\sh> ok...going home...laters gentlemen
[05:01] <mvo> bye \sh_away 
[05:01] <infinity> \sh : That happens all the time, it's called an "apt bug", and it's nothing to worry about.
[05:01] <infinity> (But you can pester mvo about it anyway)
[05:01] <ogra> Nafallo, adjusted
[05:01] <Nafallo> :-)
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[05:04] <mvo> infinity: hm, this happens all the time? can I get your /etc/apt/apt.conf.d  please?
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[05:05] <infinity> mvo : Nothing in it except for the 70debconf hook.
[05:06] <mvo> infinity: and still your lists vanish sometimes?
[05:06] <infinity> mvo : It's the "archive was inconsistent, so I deleted all my lists!" bug.
[05:06] <mvo> hm, right
[05:06] <infinity> mvo : Which happens, y'know, every half hour or so.
[05:06] <mvo> :/
[05:07] <lamont-away> infinity: it's a "katie interaction with apt" bug
[05:08] <lamont-away> specifically, katie builds her Packages/Sources/Releases files in place, and since we use the same archive in the DC buildd's, we have a larger window than anyone using the first-tier mirrors, where it's just an rsync-width issue
[05:09] <infinity> I know what the bug IS.
[05:09] <infinity> But the point still stands that it would be awfully nice for apt to keep its old verfied lists if the sig check fails on the new lists.
[05:10] <mvo> I guess it's too hard to katie not build it in place?
[05:10] <lamont-away> mvo: it's a non-issue
[05:10] <infinity> apt-ftparchive runs, then ziyi.
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[05:10] <lamont-away> since katie gets replaced with launchpad stuff before hoary releases.
[05:10] <mvo> "hoary"?
[05:10] <lamont-away> yeah
[05:11] <lamont-away> hoary
[05:11] <mvo> right
[05:11] <infinity> There's just a window where the Packages files are broken (and a smaller window here the sigs are broken)
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[05:11] <infinity> I do see it occasionally on primary mirrors too, though, which sucks harder.
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[05:11] <lamont-away> specificially, katie is not a place that we want to spend significant time overhauling/hacking
[05:11] <mvo> infinity: I agree, I have a "re-verify" branch that should do this, it just makes me very nervous that it might break our authentication scheme in some way that I haven't thought of
[05:11] <infinity> The buildds can cope with the problem, regular users probably don't like it as much.
[05:12] <lamont-away> regular users rarely see it, although they do
[05:12] <mvo> regular users hate it (and they are right!)
[05:12] <lamont-away> for released suites, they almost never do
[05:12] <infinity> lamont-away : I see it more than I'd like to.
[05:12] <lamont-away> slower days would reduce it - that's why debian doesn't see this issue.
[05:12] <infinity> (Okay, I'm perhaps an irregular user)
=== lamont-away would like to thank the academy for hard-coded rsync commands in .ssh/authorized_keys.
=== infinity curses coreutils.
[05:16] <infinity> mkdir foo && mv foo/ bar/
[05:16] <pitti> infinity: no, we won't it throw out of main :)
[05:16] <infinity> ^-- Used to work, does no longer (complains about the trailing slash)
[05:16] <dilinger> infinity: OMGPHP51#$%@
[05:17] <infinity> dilinger : Yeah, I saw.  Will happen soon.
[05:17] <dilinger> infinity: oh i could care less, i just like hassling php maintainers :D
[05:17] <sabdfl> mdke: ping
[05:17] <mdke> sabdfl, hi
[05:17] <pitti> infinity: OMGSECURITYUPDATESCOMEBEFORE$#$ :)
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[05:17] <infinity> pitti : Yes, those too. ;)
[05:18] <dilinger> pitti: hey, maybe 5.1.0 fixes all the security bugs and introduces no new bugs
[05:18] <infinity> HAHAHAHA.
[05:18] <pitti> dilinger: *all* bugs? MUHAHA
[05:19] <dilinger> infinity: it could happen!  if we killed php upstream, i mean.
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=== dilinger scratches his head.  ZTS fixes?
[05:21] <infinity> What are the odds?
[05:22] <dilinger> i thought it was made pretty clear that ZTS was deprecated and unsupported, they are they making fixes?
[05:23] <infinity> I don't know, but I'll probably just silently turn it back on again someday and wait for the fallout.
[05:23] <infinity> Not for dapper, though.
[05:24] <infinity> ZTS isn't something I want to commit to supporting for 5 years.
[05:24] <infinity> Not just yet.
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[05:33] <Kamion> seb128: gconf2 NEWed and in main
[05:33] <seb128> Kamion: thanks
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[05:37] <dilinger> infinity: even after whatshisface's complaining?
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[05:46] <infinity> Kamion : console-data merge FUBAR
[05:46] <infinity> pplying patch debian/patches/195_dvorak_a.patch ... successful.
[05:46] <infinity> Applying patch debian/patches/200_dvorak_a.patch ... failed! (check stampdir/log/patches/200_dvorak_a.patch for reason)
[05:46] <infinity> make: *** [stampdir/patch]  Error 1
[05:46] <Kamion> infinity: d'oh. thanks
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[05:50] <Amaranth> someone say my name?
[05:51] <Kamion> infinity: (testing is for LOSERS)
[05:51] <pitti> Kamion, jbailey: can we three talk a bit about the LocalesThatDontSuck spec?
[05:51] <Kamion> pitti: sure, I'm off the phone now
[05:52] <jbailey> pitti: I'm still on a call.
[06:00] <mvo> Kamion: the procps changes you made in 2004 (emualte mouse buttons with f11,f12) are still valid for us, right? I'm looking over the merge of procps right now
[06:00] <pitti> mvo: yes, please give us poor ppc users middle and right mouse buttons :)
[06:02] <mvo> pitti: heh! ok :)
[06:02] <Kamion> mvo: yes
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[06:07] <\sh> re
[06:17] <ogra> seb128, will the gconf changes still respect the cdd settings or do in need to change stuff in edubuntu-artwork ? 
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[06:18] <seb128> ogra: you need to change stuff
[06:18] <ogra> seb128, any docs on this apart from the mail in debian-gtk-gnome ? 
[06:18] <seb128> no
[06:18] <seb128> but the mail is clear
[06:19] <seb128> " The format
[06:19] <seb128> is very simple: each line consists in a key and a value, the type being
[06:19] <seb128> autodetected. "
[06:19] <seb128> just install a such file to /usr/share/gconf/defaults
[06:20] <ogra> ah, so the cdd dir is obsolete ....
[06:20] <ogra> i liked the prioritization ...
[06:21] <ogra> i'll play with it, thanks seb128 
[06:22] <seb128> what?
[06:22] <ogra> but i wonder how backwards compatible it is ...
[06:22] <seb128> "in /usr/share/gconf/defaults, with filenames starting with numbers, e.g.
[06:22] <seb128> 20gnome-session. The number indicates the priority, greater numbers
[06:22] <seb128> meaning you can overwrite defaults set in lower priorities."
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[06:22] <seb128> number makes the priority
[06:23] <ogra> seb128, but now i have to actually create a schema file .... before i only called 3 gconftool settings for the cdd dir in postinst/postrm... 
[06:24] <seb128> you don't have to create a schemas
[06:24] <seb128> a schemas is xml structured and not easy to write
[06:24] <seb128> you just have to write
[06:24] <seb128> /app/your_app/setting 8
[06:24] <ogra> and i wonder if josselin has taken into account that there actually might people be using the cdd structure ...
[06:24] <dilinger> Keybuk: ping.  got a sec?
[06:25] <seb128> he discussed with Debian cdd guys
[06:25] <ogra> ah, ok
[06:25] <seb128> and he mailed debian-gtk-gnome
[06:25] <ogra> i think in ubuntu i was the only person who ever used it
[06:25] <seb128> anyway I mailed announce exactly for this
[06:25] <seb128> so people notice the change :)
[06:25] <ogra> i must admit i dont follow debian-gtk-gnome this closely anymore ...
[06:26] <ogra> i still get the mails, but only take a glance ...
[06:29] <dholbach> can somebody process libglibmm-2.4-1c2a (glibmm2.4 source package) and then libgtkmm-2.4-1c2a (gtkmm2.4)?
[06:30] <Keybuk> dilinger: sure, what's up?
[06:30] <Keybuk> you caught me at a good time :)
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[06:34] <mako> can someone with non-ascii characters in their aspell personal wordlist tell me what encoding their wordlist is in by default?
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[06:35] <mako> mine is ISO-8859-15 and throws a fit when it's utf8.. i think this is a bug
[06:38] <Nafallo> mako: which one of the files is it? :-)
[06:39] <Nafallo> /var/lib/dictionaries-common/aspell/aspell-sv says it is iso-8859-1
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=== Treenaks has a 45x30cm not-quite-poster of the UBZ group photo :)
[06:49] <jbailey> pitti, Kamion: I'm off that call now.  You want another one? =)
[06:50] <pitti> jbailey, Kamion: oh, just a small question, but we should all agree to it
[06:50] <pitti> jbailey, Kamion: the spec says that locale-gen needs to be adapted to SUPPORTED -> supported.d
[06:50] <pitti> but that's bogus
[06:50] <pitti> locale-gen uses /etc/locale.gen
[06:51] <pitti> jbailey: what does use SUPPORTED is install-language-locales
[06:51] <pitti> Kamion: oh, are you here?
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[06:52] <pitti> my proposal is to throw away {install,remove}-language-locales AND the config file /etc/locale.gen
[06:52] <pitti> and to add the per-language generation to locale-gen, as described in the spec
[06:52] <pitti> jbailey, Kamion: does that sound sane to you?
[06:52] <ogra> Treenaks, cool
[06:53] <pitti> right now, install/remove-l-l just hacks /etc/locale.gen and calls locale-gen
[06:53] <pitti> but actually we don't need the conffile any more
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[06:55] <Treenaks> ogra: yeah
[06:55] <Treenaks> ogra: it's not very sharp though (I must have a sharper version on-disk)
[06:55] <pef> hello
=== Diziet boggles at the apache2 build system.  It seems to be running configure once for every apache2 module included in the distribution.
[06:57] <Diziet> And debian/rules is missing about a million "set -e"'s.
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[07:00] <Diziet> Oh, this is very tedious.  I can't seem to get make to run the compiler without rerunning configure a hundred times.
[07:02] <jbailey> pitti: Feh, sorry about that ,phone rang.
[07:02] <pitti> jbailey: your phone rules your life, doesn't it? :)
[07:02] <jbailey> pitti: That sounds right and removes a conffile, which I'm always in favour of.
[07:02] <jbailey> Hates the conffiles, baggins.  HATES them.
[07:03] <jbailey> pitti: Yes, very much so.
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[07:04] <jbailey> pitti: I'm a social butterfly, but this isn't news ;)
[07:05] <pitti> jbailey: ok, fine; I wait for Kamion's opinion before I do it
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[07:11] <Kamion> pitti: the thing that does use SUPPORTED is the generation of /var/lib/dpkg/info/locales.config
[07:11] <pitti> Kamion: right, that will go away
[07:11] <Kamion> but we're killing that anyway
[07:12] <pitti> Kamion: I'm just concerned about the /etc/locale.gen config file
[07:12] <pitti> AFAICS it's useless now
[07:12] <Kamion> pitti: I'd very much like to support transitions from it
[07:12] <Kamion> which will, I realise, involve installing extra packages somehow
[07:12] <pitti> right
[07:12] <pitti> Kamion: see the spec about the upgrade notes
[07:13] <Kamion> ah, yes
=== \sh should remove the blinking highliter for the word "transitions" and "merges" 
[07:13] <dholbach> \sh: i only have 'transition' :)
[07:14] <Kamion> ok then, sounds fair to me
[07:14] <\sh> dholbach: well...the next time I set it on shemale or ladyboy to remind me only about "trans"itions
[07:14] <dholbach> erm.... right
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=== \sh braindead
[07:14] <dholbach> :-)
[07:19] <dholbach> pitti: do you want to do the c++ allocator change for gnome-cups-manager, or are you fine with me doing it?
[07:19] <pitti> dholbach: oh, if you have time for it, I won't stop you
[07:20] <dholbach> pitti: doing so :)
[07:20] <pitti> thank you
[07:27] <\sh> elmo: please sync ctypes from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok
[07:30] <sabdfl> jdub: ping
[07:30] <\sh> moins sabdfl 
[07:30] <sabdfl> hiya
[07:31] <sabdfl> seb128: where do the gnome startup and shutdown sounds live?
[07:31] <seb128> sabdfl: /usr/share/sounds/startup.wav, /usr/share/sounds/shutdown.wav (ubuntu-sounds package)
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[07:32] <sabdfl> seb128: those will play on mac or windows, right?
[07:32] <seb128> yep, they are standard wav files
[07:32] <sabdfl> rock. thanks
[07:32] <seb128> np
[07:32] <jbailey> seb128: WE have an ubuntu-sounds package?
[07:33] <seb128> jbailey: since warty
[07:33] <seb128> jbailey: and it didn't change since warty ...
[07:33] <jbailey> seb128: Right now DapperStandardsBase includes exceptions for ubuntu-artwork and ubuntu-docs for branding.
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[07:33] <jbailey> seb128: Should we add ubuntu-sounds to that?
[07:33] <seb128> probably yep
[07:33] <dholbach> jbailey: that sounds reasonable
[07:33] <\sh> elmo: please sync cynthiune.app from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok
[07:34] <jbailey> Kamion: You're the approver for DapperStandardsBase.  OK to add "ubuntu-sounds" as a derivable package to the list?
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[07:54] <\sh> elmo: please sync darcs-buildpackage from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok, thx
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[08:09] <\sh> hmm...
[08:09] <\sh>  /usr/include/wx/platform.h:85:22: error: wx/setup.h: No such file or directory on powerpc...
[08:09] <\sh> strange
[08:12] <\sh> elmo: please sync db2 from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok, thx
[08:14] <\sh> elmo: thx for the other syncs :)
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[08:15] <ogra> elmo, thnx as well 
[08:16] <aa_> hi, I am not sure about a potential missing dependency in python-gnome2-extras
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[08:19] <aa_> ok, I found it, thanks, there is no problem with it :)
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[08:25] <thierry> seb128 : does "Icon=@gimpdatadir@/images/@GIMP_DESKTOP_ICON@" should be changed or it stays this way?
[08:26] <thierry> seb128 : the @ amke me wondering
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[08:32] <mdke> dholbach, lemme know when/if you have any questions on the package. Hopefully we are good to go now.
[08:32] <\sh> elmo: please sync dbishell , dctc from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok, thx
[08:33] <ajmitch> elmo: please sync python-kinterbasdb, dropping ubuntu changes
[08:33] <mhz> jdub: ping
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[08:38] <\sh> \sh: !PAUSE
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[08:44] <seb128> thierry: Icon=/usr/share/gimp/2.0/images/wilber-icon.png ...no
[08:44] <thierry> k good
[08:44] <dholbach> mdke: thanks
[08:44] <dholbach> mdke: will checkout now and see what i can do
[08:44] <mdke> wicked
[08:45] <mdke> ping me if you need anything
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[08:51] <slomo> \sh_away: doesn't work... now another error with wx :o
[08:59] <Simira> how not recomendable is it to upgrade dapper tonight?
[09:00] <mdke> Simira, X and network not working here
[09:00] <mdke> but it depends on your luck
[09:00] <mdke> i guess
[09:00] <tseng> works for me.
[09:00] <Nafallo> Simira: everything works for me :-)
[09:01] <dholbach> mdke: you have xserver-common installed?
[09:01] <mdke> dholbach, yeah it was a synaptics problem I think
[09:01] <Nafallo> dholbach: deborphan wants to remove that one, should I? :-)
[09:01] <mdke> i'll take a look later
[09:01] <dholbach> Nafallo: err, you could try it...
=== lamont-away tosses glares at mvo for #18905 in bz
[09:01] <Nafallo> dholbach: better wait till daniels tell me to then ;-)
[09:02] <dholbach> Nafallo: i could imagine, he'd say: "Nafallo: err, you could try it..."
[09:02] <Simira> I'll try and blame you if something doesn't work, then
[09:02] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:02] <Simira> hm, amusing
[09:02] <Nafallo> Simira: I TOTALLY blame the last uploader for any package that fails ;-)
[09:03] <Simira> I got one question in English and one in Norwegian about the install progress...
[09:03] <Nafallo> and hmm, do the update manually. some stuff is currently holding back other stuff :-)
[09:04] <Simira> that's ok
[09:05] <Nafallo> unimportant stuff like everything apt ;-)
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[09:11] <Simira> there seems to be an x-issue, but it works, somehow
[09:16] <mhz> .oO(wow, 4639 wiki pages according to SystemInfo)
[09:17] <mdz> lifeless,Diziet: ping?
[09:20] <\sh> \sh: !PLAY
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[09:37] <Phoul> I have a question for yall
[09:37] <Phoul> Does anyone know if there will be a E17 package out soon?
[09:38] <Phoul> Lol hey mhz
[09:38] <mhz> hey
[09:38] <Phoul> Anyone know?
[09:38] <mhz> Phoul: do you know who the package admin of e16 is?
[09:38] <Phoul> i can check
[09:39] <Phoul> Wait no i dont and i dont know how to check ><
[09:39] <Phoul> Uhh i dont like E16 its annoying
[09:39] <Phoul> :P
[09:39] <mhz> maybe you could email him and ask directly ;)
[09:39] <mhz> let me try
[09:39] <Phoul> Uhh i dont know who it is tho
[09:40] <Phoul> :(
[09:41] <mhz> Phoul: Package: enlightenment
[09:41] <mhz> Priority: optional
[09:41] <mhz> Section: universe/x11
[09:41] <mhz> Installed-Size: 1168
[09:41] <mhz> Maintainer: Laurence J. Lane <ljlane@debian.org>
[09:41] <Phoul> MmMm
[09:41] <Phoul> Thanks
[09:41] <mhz> n
[09:41] <mhz> np
[09:42] <mdke> Phoul, i think there are e17 packages on their website
[09:42] <Phoul> Its still CVS
[09:42] <mdke> there is a repository with cvs packages i think
[09:43] <Simira> where should I find Gnome Bluetoothtools after installing it?
[09:44] <Phoul> mdke
[09:44] <Phoul> I cant use CVS i really suck at it
[09:45] <mdke> Phoul, i mean, there is a repository with e17 packaged from cvs, I believe
[09:46] <Phoul> What do you mean?
[09:46] <Phoul> I know E17 is in cvs.... What are you trying to say 
[09:46] <mdke> gah
[09:46] <mdke> Phoul, repositories are archives with packages in.
[09:47] <mdke> I have heard that one exists with e17, taken from cvs
[09:47] <Phoul> Okay where is it then?
[09:47] <mdke> i don't know
[09:47] <mdke> google will help, if it exists
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[09:51] <mdke> Phoul, so can #get-e
[09:53] <\sh> elmo: please sync debpartial-mirror , deskbar-applet from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok, thx
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[09:55] <stratus> \sh, i'm sorry but i think that deskbar-applet is b0rked in sid, are you sure about the sync?
[09:56] <\sh> stratus: in what way borked?
[09:56] <stratus> \sh, #335648, i'm using dapper package into my laptop and right now recompiling this package in a sid chroot to see what's going wrong with sid one (and it's too old).
[09:57] <\sh> stratus: well...no FTBFS so far
[09:57] <\sh> on dapper
[09:58] <stratus> \sh, but you asked to sync deskbar-applet 0.8.0-1 (#335648, bug reproducible in two desktops that i see) over deskbar-applet 0.8.5-0ubuntu1 (works for me).
[09:58] <mhz> Phoul: I did try e-Live 1 month ago
[09:58] <dholbach> and it will be my deskbar-applet, which is synced over :)
[09:59] <stratus> dholbach, i see.
[09:59] <dholbach> (it's not the first time, but ... :))
=== dholbach shrugs and goes back to something else ;)
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[09:59] <\sh> argl
[09:59] <\sh> mom is wrong
[09:59] <dholbach> Mithrandir and i uploaded it at the same time :)
[10:00] <\sh> elmo: UNSYNC deskbar-applet
[10:00] <\sh> dholbach: grmpf...wuff
[10:00] <stratus> nice, at least my deskbar-applet won't break in my next dapper update now.
[10:00] <dholbach> \sh: don't worry ;)
[10:00] <\sh> stratus: depends :)
[10:01] <stratus> if you don't copy the sid one over the dholbach package, it won't.
[10:01] <\sh> dholbach: na...there is a mismanagement between mom and this surprising upload :)
[10:01] <stratus> i'm sure
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[10:01] <stratus> btw, you're right about debpartial-mirror that sync makes sense
[10:02] <\sh> dholbach: but well...it was before the mom lists were there...
[10:02] <stratus> is the deskbar-applet version confusing that script called 'mom' (is it a script name, right?)
[10:02] <stratus> debpartial-mirror version is 0.2.10ubuntu1 and deskbar-applet is 0.8.5-0ubuntu1
[10:03] <stratus> do you see the -0 ? i think 'mom' or whatever isn't ready to handle it
[10:03] <\sh> stratus: no..mom was running before the upload and got the old deskbar-applet in ubuntu and the new debian one
[10:03] <\sh> stratus: and now we had one report to many and wrong...but this happens once a while...no problem
[10:04] <\sh> stratus: mom handles it quite well..
[10:04] <stratus> hmm, i know nothing about this process, but i half understood what you mean
[10:04] <stratus> ah, ok if mom is aware of -0, np here
[10:04] <\sh> stratus: well..it didn't catch the new upload to ubuntu, with the newer version..
[10:05] <\sh> dholbach: I'll tell sistpoty to write a small comparison script between dapper-changes and our list...,)
[10:05] <stratus> but i think it's trivial to fix, i didn't read a line of code of this 'mom' though
[10:06] <dholbach> \sh: nevermind about deskbar-applet :)
[10:06] <stratus> the -0 one would be a subtle bug.
[10:06] <stratus> dholbach, i care!
[10:06] <\sh> stratus: it has nothing to do with mom...it was just a coincidence of many unforseen things and stupid motu which didn't check the dapper-changes list of uploads...nothing else
[10:07] <stratus> \sh, ok thanks.
[10:07] <\sh> stratus: again...mom is right....the upload of dholbach was after the first run of MoM...and MoM couldn't see the new ubuntu version because it wasn't there
[10:08] <stratus> \sh, i see, so basically you asked elmo to sync based on a 'old' report from MoM.
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[10:12] <mdke> Phoul, deb http://soulmachine.net/breezy unstable/ i think
[10:12] <\sh> stratus: yes
[10:14] <\sh> stratus: but even if he tries now, there should be no harm, cause of the greater version number of the ubuntu version
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[10:16] <stratus> \sh, i see
[10:17] <\sh> dholbach: I hope we can avoid those issues in dapper+1 :)
[10:17] <dholbach> not to worry :)
[10:18] <\sh> dholbach: workflow optimization :)
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[10:26] <\sh> elmo: thx :)
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[10:35] <dholbach> have a nice weekend
[10:36] <\sh> dholbach: u too :)
[10:36] <dholbach> :)
[10:38] <mvo> have fun!
[10:40] <\sh> mvo: fun?
[10:40] <mvo> \sh: yes, anything wrong with fun :) ?
[10:41] <\sh> mvo: well...I had fun enough today ... now for the serious work :)
[10:41] <mvo> oh? I had a lot of work today, so I look forward for fun
[10:42] <mvo> well, actually I'm looking forward to my bed :P
[10:43] <\sh> mvo: it's friday..you are in bochum...bermuda-dreieck :)
[10:43] <mvo> it's snowing like crazy here :)
[10:43] <\sh> what?
[10:43] <\sh> in kerpen it's only windy 
[10:43] <mvo> seriously, it's snowing and there is a lot of wind
=== \sh should have a look outside...
[10:44] <mvo> kerpen? isn't that the michael schuchmacher town?
[10:45] <\sh> mvo: yes
[10:45] <\sh> and no snow...only wind
[10:47] <\sh> mvo: you should be lucky :) snow in bochum..when was it the last time that it was snowing in november?
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[10:49] <mvo> \sh: that's right
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[11:10] <mhz> jdub: ping
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[11:11] <xhaker> BenC, you there?
[11:13] <\sh> it's friday....
[11:13] <mdke> come back seb128!
[11:14] <\sh> I think even in BenC timezone is now the end of a working week :)
[11:15] <neuralis> infinity: ping
[11:16] <xhaker> \sh, do you happen to know how to proceed to get the new kernel pickup the firmwares..  they changed place in this kernel..maybe what is needed is some hotplug change?
[11:17] <\sh> xhaker: sorry...I didn't try out the new kernel..no time for this...next week it's time for more breaking fun
[11:17] <xhaker> ;)
[11:17] <xhaker> i've already "broke" X today
[11:17] <fabbione> xhaker: yes, there is a transition going on. See u-d-a
[11:18] <fabbione> sit wait and be patience
[11:18] <neuralis> infinity: http://www.futhark.ch/mysql/115.html
[11:18] <xhaker> somehow the /usr/X11R6/X was missing.. just made a sumlonk
[11:18] <\sh> fabbione: pfft...you should sit with your wife and watch tv or playing cards...it's friday ;)
[11:18] <xhaker> symlink... my girlfriend was kissing me :S "sumlok"
[11:18] <xhaker> lol
[11:19] <fabbione> \sh: she went to sleep at 7:30 or something
[11:19] <xhaker> fabbione, sorry the probabel silly question u-d-a?
[11:19] <\sh> ubuntu-devel-announce ml
[11:19] <\sh> fabbione: oh...
[11:19] <fabbione> ubuntu-devel-announce ml
[11:20] <mhz> mdke: what do you think of http://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuRequestDay
[11:20] <xhaker> he. i'm only subsribed to the devel no the announce one thansk
[11:21] <mdke> mhz, crazy :)
[11:21] <mhz> mdke: but would you ?
[11:22] <fabbione> good night everybody
[11:22] <mhz> nite fabbione 
[11:22] <xhaker> nite
[11:22] <mdke> mhz, nope
[11:22] <mhz> mdke: ok
[11:22] <\sh> cu fabbione have a nice weekend
[11:22] <mdke> does anyone know how to get edit bug privileges on gnome bugzilla?
[11:23] <mdke> if its possible
[11:25] <neuralis> i just realized we now have mdke, mdz, mdy, and mhz around here :)
[11:25] <mdke> heh
[11:25] <mhz> hehe
[11:25] <mdke> mako too
[11:25] <mdke> so, gnome bugzilla
[11:26] <neuralis> mdke: well, mako, kiko and doko ;)
[11:26] <mhz> heheh
[11:26] <mdke> :)
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[11:30] <\sh> elmo: please sync discover-data , dmraid from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok, thx
[11:30] <Phoul> mdke
[11:31] <Phoul> I want e17 but i cant find it
[11:31] <mdke> Phoul, it's in that repository I posted you too
[11:32] <Phoul> I already tried that
[11:32] <Phoul> I did apt-get install enlightenment and i got e16
[11:32] <tseng> guys, this is not a support channel
[11:32] <Phoul> I guess i should to apt-get install e17?
[11:32] <Chipzz> Phoul: that's because that is not how you install it
[11:32] <Phoul> How do you install it?
[11:33] <Phoul> Its not in synaptic
[11:33] <mdke> Phoul, #ubuntu pls
[11:33] <Phoul> chip?
[11:33] <mdke> that repo has it, don't be fooled by the 16.9 version number
[11:33] <Phoul> I cant follow the convos in there
[11:33] <Phoul> How do i find it then!
[11:34] <\sh> Phoul: in #ubuntu
[11:34] <Phoul> Is mdke and chip in there?
[11:34] <mdke> nope
[11:34] <mdke> pm me if you like
[11:34] <Phoul> Okayu
[11:34] <mhz> mdke: what has changed in wiki to make it fast? (afaik you updated Bug 16636)
[11:35] <mdke> mhz, i guess elmo did some server magic or something
[11:35] <mhz> oh, ok
[11:35] <Phoul> mdke i pmed you
[11:36] <elmo> mdke: no, spiv fixed it - it was a weird corner case with launchpad authentication and how moin handles page subscriptions which made page saving insanely slow
[11:36] <mdke> elmo, take the credit!
[11:37] <mhz> elmo: thx for the info
[11:37] <\sh> elmo: thx, but actually you will get a last request for today :)
[11:38] <\sh> after that I put myself to bed
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[11:39] <\sh> elmo: please sync dcgui from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok, thx
=== tseng looks at elmo's screen
[11:41] <tseng> Ignoring ALL from \sh
[11:41] <\sh> hehe
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