=== jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:17] mmm? [12:17] ROCK? [12:17] that doesn't sound so mdke [12:20] elol [12:20] lolol [12:20] damn keyboard [12:21] :P [12:21] hello jsgotangco [12:21] hey good time to arrive [12:21] check out my about ubuntu [12:21] http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/index.html [12:22] its only 7:21am [12:22] heh === jsgotangco checking it out now [12:22] wow that's pretty mad css going [12:22] hardly ;) [12:22] i copied the background from the old hoary one, and the fonts and stuff is all classic ubuntu fonts [12:23] ahhh [12:23] just need to get rid of that double line at the top [12:23] it is added by the stylesheet i suppose [12:23] i havent been updating my svn i hvae been studying henrik's opencd with the moin based browser thing [12:23] ? [12:24] he said there was a new version out, what is new? [12:24] updated apps [12:24] desktop moin [12:24] lol [12:24] nice one [12:24] have you been working on it? [12:24] yeah [12:25] the next orchard will have full moin [12:25] orchard? [12:25] its the build system [12:25] i didn't know you worked on theopencd [12:25] cool [12:25] not that much, just contributing bits of stuff [12:26] tell me more! [12:26] http://wiki.theopencd.org/MoinBasedBrowser [12:27] hehe [12:27] henrik is obsessed with moin :) [12:27] in a good way [12:28] mgalvin, ping? === wazza [n=warren@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:28] there's no 24UTC right? [12:29] no, not to my knowledge [12:29] that would be 00 the next day [12:29] heh [12:29] mgalvin, i don't think there's a 24UTC [12:30] is that a docteam meeting? === mdke looks [12:31] no a private one =) [12:31] oh i c [12:31] for that book eh? [12:32] how's it going? [12:32] pretty good [12:33] how long left? [12:33] theres work in progress going.. [12:33] oh a bit longer [12:33] cool [12:33] it won't be open source will it? [12:33] ahh i haven't really gone through the licensing yet... === jsgotangco is busy preparing for a trip next week [12:34] cool [12:34] you never know ;) [12:34] jsgotangco, what time is the next docteam meeting? are we going to rotate them 14 -> 23? [12:34] i'd like to rotate it [12:34] i can't remember [12:34] what time did we rotate it to last time? [12:35] 22 or 23 i think [12:35] i belive i said we'll do the next one at 22 [12:35] awesome === mdke updates [12:35] at least that would be a saturday morning for me [12:36] 22 is good for me too [12:36] rob1, around? i don't think the desktopguide is building [12:42] rob1, http://pastebin.ca/31009 [12:42] mdke, about ubuntu is still too wordy, but the css is nice [12:42] Burgwork, i haven't changed the words, except to add the section on gnu [12:43] the words are sabdfl's [12:43] we'll change it soon, AboutUbuntu isn't that hard really [12:43] change what? [12:43] the text if needed [12:43] the words? [12:44] "if needed" [12:44] yeah [12:44] mark said that he likes them [12:44] i pointed him at BrowserDefaults today and he suggested that the words could stay the same [12:45] i think the doc should be shorter too fwiw [12:45] it shouldn't scroll on a standard resolution [12:46] well not standard, but the majority resolution [12:46] i dunno about that [12:46] the ubuntu website scrolls [12:46] but shorter sections would be good [12:47] there must be a way to make this look more interesting.. [12:47] something I really want to figure out how to do is how to include the Ubuntu top bar on all our docs [12:48] use a kde stylesheet haha [12:48] that doesn't do it either ;) [12:48] http://kubuntu.org/docs/kquickguide/C/ [12:49] but it must be really easy [12:49] mark is on crack, to be honest [12:49] start.ubuntu.com is going to take the words away, finally [12:49] its a very good toolchain [12:49] Burgwork, will start.ubuntu.com be both online and offline, depending on whether the user has internet access? [12:50] no idea [12:50] also, don't forget that the spec isn't approved [12:50] the most likely usecase is that someone opens a browser to go on the web [12:51] if they have browser open offline, they either have a local apache install or have opening an html file from nautilus [12:51] in either case, it doesn't really matter [12:51] i agree with that. [12:51] but a lot of people don't [12:52] I think the number of people who open a browser before they have internet access is vanishingly small [12:52] a thus you must satisfy the 95%, who don;t want a giant block of text as their homepage [12:53] well i hope that about ubuntu is useful to at least some people [12:53] we should keep the document [12:53] sure [12:53] just don;t have it is the default homepage === mdke nods [12:54] what are we gonna do with the document though? [12:54] it can be linked off of start [12:55] and we can ship it [12:55] it looks crap in yelp tho [12:55] best just to move it to the website and be done with it :D [12:55] probably [12:55] oh well [12:56] then it probably should be at www.ubuntu.com/about === mdke nods [12:56] currently that stuff is at /ubuntu [12:56] can you ping hendrik about that? [12:56] what, to change the url? [12:56] yes [12:57] yeah [12:57] we'll have to put some redirects in [12:57] oh, and www.ubuntu.com, the upper left, the graphic is corrupted [12:57] but on the wiki [12:57] but not [12:57] corrupted how? [12:58] looks the same here [12:58] have you seen the moin version of the site? [12:58] http://img308.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotubuntulinuxforhumanb.png [12:58] oh [12:58] should I file a bug about this [12:59] where is the corruption? [12:59] look above the tabs [12:59] see the streaking? [01:00] _above_ yes [01:00] argh [01:00] i mean yes [01:00] Burgwork, that is upper right :) [01:00] oh [01:00] interesting, i don't get it in firefox [01:00] brb [01:00] I did that yesterday with my brother [01:01] Burgwork, if you don't see it here, probably forget about it and wait for the new site [01:01] http://69.60.114.106/ [01:02] I see it there, but not as bad [01:02] then file it i guess [01:02] I just pinged hendrik [01:02] he's not online [01:03] by email [01:03] aha [01:03] that'll do the trick [01:03] just found one more thing [01:03] the favico needs to be transparent [01:03] yeah that would be nice [01:04] the fonts don't look as good in the moin version [01:04] they are too small [01:04] i think it is the line spacing [01:04] looks at the tabs [01:05] the words are much smaller their [01:05] s/their/there [01:05] 1.25 as apposed to 1.5 line spacing [01:05] yeah that was intentional [01:05] ugh [01:05] that makes them harder to read [01:05] the tabs? [01:05] i preferred em bigger too [01:06] we need less words and more space on the website [01:07] refresh [01:08] that's about the same as ubuntu.com i think [01:10] Burgwork [01:13] yup? [01:14] you see the difference? [01:14] that is 1.5 spacing rather than 1.25 [01:14] yes I do [01:14] anything that decreases space is a bad thing [01:15] ok changing back now, i've mailed henrik to suggest increasing space [01:15] do you have full control over that moin install? [01:15] well... [01:15] i have admin rights on that server [01:16] the amount of control is limited by the fact that I don't know what I'm doing that well [01:16] i'm no moin expert [01:16] ah === Burgwork wants to go to town on the number of words on the main page [01:17] lol [01:17] don't do that [01:18] but you have a good point [01:18] ah yes [01:18] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats?action=diff&rev2=135&rev1=134 [01:18] guess who made that edit ;) [01:18] lots of words really are just an excuse for not bothering to structure the site carefully [01:19] you? [01:19] or somebody being paid by the black pixel [01:19] yep [01:19] those two paragraphs could be said in one [01:19] heh [01:19] good edit [01:19] if the person was interested in more, they can google the topic [01:20] although, perhaps the word "patent" wouldn't go amiss [01:20] or a link to a page which explains what free means [01:20] oh, you've done that :) [01:20] awesome [01:21] actually, RestrictedFormats is quite sane right now [01:21] and quite well formatted [01:21] I just needed to tweak it now [01:21] hmm, I make a great deal of sense right now [01:22] :) [01:23] yeah, no other linux distros have so many words on their websites [01:23] well gentoo probably does, but it's all news [01:25] gentoo is in the middle of redesigning the website === jjesse [i=user@69-87-142-181.async.iserv.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@adsl-69-104-117-67.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz [n=Belutz@ubuntu/member/belutz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jerome@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === uniq [n=frode@213.184.199.55] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Kaiser@ppp207-235.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === apokryphos [n=apokryph@70.85.216.98] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin_ [n=mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-244.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvolt1ge [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz_ [n=Belutz@ubuntu/member/belutz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@ppp-69-227-156-242.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:23] mdke: I got the packaging guide to open in yelp [07:52] LaserJock, cool! [07:52] LaserJock, wanna send a patch? [08:10] mdke: well, in a bit. I am still trying to clean it up a bit. [08:19] gotta get lunch, I'll be back in an hr or so === Burgwork wonders whether he should approve mako to be a member of the doc team [08:30] don't see why not [08:30] although that team will eventually govern commit access so we should probably limit it to contributors [08:30] Burgwork, ask him why he applied [08:34] I approved him [08:34] I don't harm in letting him have commit access [08:34] no, this is a good point [08:34] lets just say he is not an unknown [08:35] he applied recently? odd, hopefully he is thinking of doing some doc work :) [08:35] he applied today [08:36] Benjamin Mako Hill 2005-11-25 Approved [08:36] cool [08:37] what about having the wiki team as part fo the doc team [08:37] it is already I thought [08:37] i dunno if that would screw around with commit access [08:37] can we make it so that only people who are actually members and not members through another gropu have access? [08:38] not sure [08:38] they haven't sorted out the commit access thing anyway [08:38] they are working on it for bzr... but i don't think it's finished [08:38] I was chatting with SteveA, he said that fine grained access control was coming [08:38] yeah, but bzr only I think [08:38] i spoke to spiv last night about it [08:38] they are looking to make the auth mechanism quite plugable [08:39] anyhow we can think about bzr soon anyway [08:39] yes [08:39] I like dapper+1 myself [08:39] even now is too late into the cycle to really switch [08:39] assuming it will work for us, dapper+1 is fine by me === apokryphos sees http://doc.gwos.org and wonders why there's another duplication of effort :D [08:40] i'm not convinced, and spiv kinda confirmed this, that we need a decentralised version control system [08:40] but apparently they are working on a centralised thing for bzr anyway [08:40] cvs mode [08:40] apokryphos, yeah, we've had quite a lot of discussion with that group [08:40] Burgwork, http://bazaar.canonical.com/LockStepDevelopment [08:41] hmm [08:41] I realized why moin pisses me off so much [08:41] mdke: what's the deal with it? Are they archiving stuff or just on another whole project? Seems like there already is (i) a doc team; (ii) a wiki [08:41] 1) It assumes content is more important that presentation [08:41] 2)It assumes that the editors have other means of communicating [08:41] Mediawiki assumes neither of these things [08:42] apokryphos, start about http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=81666&page=3 [08:43] thanks [08:43] apokryphos, about post 25 (me) [08:43] then go over the page === thechitowncubs [n=john@c-67-175-52-127.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:47] arggh [08:47] really don't like to generalize here, but linux+forums ends up always aggrevating me :/ [08:47] i used to love the gentoo forums [08:47] whenever I post in ubuntuforums, I always find myself struggling to make peace and promote discussion [08:48] precisely. I stepped in the other day to say that constructive criticism and patches for programs are good, and I got called a "moron" and a troll. Gah. [08:48] that doc.gwos thing is such a shame, because so much great effort goes into it which could go into the wiki === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:49] hi [08:49] 'zactly; we should be able to reason through things like that -- it's made too difficult [08:49] apokryphos, i spent a lot of hours on it, not just in that forum thread but also on irc and by email, no good [08:49] dholbach, hi [08:50] I guess when people don't want to reason, they simply won't. [08:51] mdke: did we agree on 5.11-1 as a version number? [08:51] dholbach, no, but that is fine by me [08:52] mdke: or maybe better 5.11.1, 5.11.2, 5.11.3 [08:52] hmmm [08:52] dholbach, whichever you prefer [08:52] :) [08:52] 5.11.1! [08:52] damn those hyphens :-O [08:52] 5.11.1-1 :) [08:52] heh [08:53] dholbach, so in terms of building docs, all that is necessary should be "make gdeb" in the ubuntu directory [08:53] i do debuild [08:53] which i do in every other package too === mdke doesn't know how that works [08:54] what calls the "make gdeb"? [08:54] if you have a look at debian/rules [08:54] (that's the package makefile) [08:54] oh yeah [08:54] an obfuscated version of it [08:55] cool === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:55] hi there jjesse [08:56] hello mdke [08:56] just upgraded to kde3.5rc2 :) [08:56] boy is it slow here at work today over 1/2 of the company is gone [08:56] holidays? [08:56] you normally have build targets in packages like build, clean, binary, ... - but jbailey wrote large parts of cdbs (which is used in this package), which hide the internals of a package build system and make it easier [08:56] mdke: yeah day after thanksgiving [08:56] dholbach, ah i see [08:57] jjesse, turkey leftovers eh [08:57] mmm turkey :) [08:57] jjesse: try out kopete -- many advances 8) [08:57] dholbach, so did you svn up? [08:58] svn export [08:58] apokryphos: yeah? i'll have to check them out [08:58] smooth scrolling, full webcam support, other convenientisms, and other msn-messenger-type things (i.e. nudges etc( [08:58] dholbach, cool, how is it lookin? [08:59] mdke: will build in a sec [08:59] :) [09:02] apokryphos: it looks a lot cleaner === apokryphos nods [09:06] mdke: does this look cool to you? http://ubuntu.gplan.info/docs/package-diff.txt [09:07] mdke: translations dropped, some pictures changed, serverguide added (to sum it up, if i didn't overlook anything) [09:07] Version: [-5.10-6-] {+5.11-1+} [09:07] Installed-Size: [-6360-] {+984+} [09:07] ooh hang on [09:07] ^ this is just a bit worrying ;) [09:08] what is worrying? [09:08] 6,3MB -> 984 KB [09:08] ;)( [09:08] oh, that's just the translations [09:08] i need an image moving [09:08] which one? === dholbach hangs on [09:08] can you add this line to debian/install [09:09] ubuntu/images/C/ubuntuheader.png usr/share/ubuntu/help/images/C [09:09] should all the documents be registered? [09:09] i wanna check one more thing too [09:10] i don't understand these: [09:10] /usr/share/ubuntu/libs/cdo-C.ent [09:10] /usr/share/ubuntu/libs/global.ent [09:11] they don't seem to get installed in the new package [09:11] errrrr, they GET installed in the new package [09:11] yeah [09:11] hmm [09:11] ls that wrong? [09:12] the last package had this: [09:12] libs/*ent usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs [09:12] libs/*ent usr/share/gnome/libs [09:12] gnome/libs/*ent usr/share/gnome/help/libs [09:12] gnome/libs/*ent usr/share/ubuntu-docs/gnome/libs [09:13] dholbach, can I change the debian/install and insert those, then you go an svn up? [09:13] hm, did i mess with this? [09:13] dunno [09:13] gnome/libs -> ubuntu/libs, right? [09:13] yeah [09:13] and usr/share/ubuntu-docs/libs [09:13] right [09:15] dholbach, are you gonna change it, or shall I? [09:15] i change it in the package - you do in svn? [09:16] okay... you can't do svn up there? [09:16] i don't think, i have an account [09:17] svn up just pulls the new changes [09:17] i'll commit and you can pull em? [09:17] i'm clearly not as experienced with svn :) [09:17] i changed it here already [09:18] i will install the package and see how it works for me [09:18] hang on again :) [09:19] i actually don't see any difference between the debian/install in our trunk and the one in branches/breezy, so I don't understand why those two extra files are there [09:20] you created/moved those .ent files afterwards? [09:20] and they got in because of the '*'? [09:20] but why are they in a strange place? [09:21] /usr/share/ubuntu/libs [09:21] oh i see it [09:21] perhaps we can just remove that line [09:21] libs/*ent usr/share/ubuntu/libs [09:22] ubuntu/images/C/UbuntuLogo.png usr/share/ubuntu/help/images/C [09:22] ubuntu/images/C/IconUbuntu.png usr/share/ubuntu/help/images/C [09:22] seem to be typos too [09:22] must have been, early in the morning [09:22] yeah [09:23] it's because you/me changed gnome to ubuntu [09:23] it should have remained "gnome" i think [09:23] right, what about that other stuff going to usr/share/gnome/... [09:24] i think the "Files in first .deb but not in second" are fine [09:25] cool [09:25] that makes me happy [09:25] with the exception [09:25] and brings christmas a bit closer :) [09:25] of those two images you pointed out, and *ent [09:25] right, let's see how they look after the next build [09:25] cool [09:30] http://ubuntu.gplan.info/docs/package-diff3.txt [09:30] lookin [09:30] sitll one /ubuntu/ item [09:31] found it [09:31] i think that those ents and the pngs should be in the same place as for the breezy package [09:32] perhaps they are... it's difficult to see from the diff [09:32] we should have /usr/share/gnome/help/images/C/IconUbuntu.png [09:32] if you have the normal package installed, it should be all in /var/lib/dpkg/info/ubuntu-docs.list [09:32] /usr/share/gnome/help/images/C/UbuntuLogo.png [09:32] in our package as well [09:32] or you can run dpkg -c on the deb [09:34] hrm, they're in ubuntu-docs/... [09:34] one of them is symlinked though [09:34] hmm === dholbach links the other one too [09:34] we just need to preserve the situation from breezy for those [09:36] everything *ent and *png should be in the same place [09:36] why were they linked before? [09:37] i think we need them both in /usr/share/gnome/help (for about ubuntu) and /usr/share/ubuntu-docs for the other documents [09:37] ok [09:37] that's what i just did [09:37] for both .png [09:37] great === n1c0las [n=nicolas@nicolas.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:43] ok, looks MUCH better now [09:43] http://ubuntu.gplan.info/docs/package-diff4.txt [09:44]