[12:29] <Riddell> \sh: kdelibs is in
[12:30] <\sh> Riddell: saw it...rock :) 
[12:30] <Riddell> appologies for the delay
[12:30] <\sh> name of it? kdelibs4c2a?
[12:30] <\sh> no ways :)
[12:30] <Riddell> yes, but build-dep on kdelibs4-dev (>= 4:3.5-rc2)
[12:33] <\sh> lets see what we can do for universe and other stuff :)
[12:34] <\sh> what about kdebase? 3.5-rc1 is uploaded..i think you are updating them..
[12:34] <Riddell> yes, I'm just checking in pbuilder then I'll upload alkl of kde 3.5 rc2
[12:34] <Riddell> all
[12:35] <\sh> k
[01:08] <Riddell> \sh: why does kdiff3 need libacl1-dev and libattr1-dev?
[01:09] <\sh> this is one secret I have to find out/
[01:09] <\sh> it wants libacl.la and libattr.la
[01:09] <Riddell> spooky
[01:09] <\sh> from where, and why...I'll check tomorrow :)
[01:09] <\sh> yeah
[01:09] <\sh> was just a test compile against the new kdelibs :)
[01:11] <Riddell> hmm, wonder if that's a problem with kdelibs4-dev then
[01:11] <\sh> are you using somewhere libarchive?
[01:11] <Riddell> what's that?
[01:11] <\sh> shermann@r200:~$ apt-cache rdepends libattr1-dev
[01:11] <\sh> libattr1-dev
[01:12] <\sh> Reverse Depends:
[01:12] <\sh>   libarchive-dev
[01:12] <\sh> bsdtar?
[01:12] <Riddell> kdelibs now uses libattr1-dev and libacl1-dev
[01:13] <\sh> uh
[01:13] <\sh> then we have some fun with getting rid of the .la 
[01:15] <\sh> anyways..i'm done for this morning...later this afternoon I do what I can to rebuild kde universe
[01:16] <\sh> good night Riddell and thx for bringing kde3.5 to the people :)
[01:17] <Riddell> yeah, looks like I need to add those to kdelibs4-dev
[02:39] <Riddell> hello simon_, don't think I know you?
[03:59] <mdz> Riddell: any news on amarok vs. anastacia?
[03:59] <Riddell> mdz: just pbuilding it now, it was synced to debian without gstreamer-mad being moved back to suggests
[03:59] <mdz> ok
[04:23] <Riddell> \sh_away: you uploaded amarok as a native package, careful with that
[04:27] <freeflying> Riddell:may you change the default chinese font to ttf-arphic-uming and ttf-arphic-ukai
[04:28] <Riddell> freeflying: what are the defaults currently and why are these ones better?
[04:29] <freeflying> Riddell: those i told with perform more better than now in dapper
[04:29] <Riddell> freeflying: have you tested them?
[04:29] <freeflying> Riddell: also there have another font can display chinese in bold defaultly
[04:30] <freeflying> Riddell: sure,we include them in our ubuntu-cn
[04:30] <Riddell> freeflying: ok, should be possible, could you write main inclusion reports?
[04:30] <Riddell> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[04:31] <freeflying> no problem
[04:34] <Riddell> freeflying: send me an e-mail when you've written them
[04:34] <Riddell> then I'll need to add the fonts to the seeds
[04:34] <freeflying> ok
[04:34] <freeflying> Riddell: and how about the skim  ^_^
[04:34] <freeflying> Riddell: need it more works ?
[04:34] <Riddell> freeflying: I'm doing REVU now :)
[04:40] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell, I've been at home this week without my devel machine (thanksgiving), but when I return I think I'll need help with the remaining kmobiletools issues. I don't have amd64 or ppc machines to test it on (so I don't know if it's x86 only) and I'm not sure how to get rid of config.sub and config.guess since it wasn't there before. I might hit you up next week if that's all right
[04:41] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: sure
[04:41] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: any reason to believe it's i386 only?
[04:42] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: just add a rm -f config.sub config.guess  line to the clear rule
[04:43] <seth_k|lappy> Riddell, no not really; are things usually cross-system as a rule?
[04:44] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: yep
[04:44] <seth_k|lappy> cheers
[04:44] <Riddell> seth_k|lappy: so you need to change i386 to any in debian/control
[04:44] <seth_k|lappy> yes
[04:45] <seth_k|lappy> I'll do it Sunday when I go back home :) it's been rather a pain b/c REVU is broken and I can't post comments, and siretart hasn't gotten back to me yet. I'll poke him again
[04:46] <Riddell> revu works for me
[04:48] <seth_k|lappy> Yeah, I'm a special case :P two identities on the same keychain
[04:48] <seth_k|lappy> and it got confused
[04:48] <seth_k|lappy> he just hasn't gotten back to me with a workaround or fix yet
[04:48] <seth_k|lappy> I switched from seth@sethkinast.com to seth@ubuntu.com for uploads
[04:48] <seth_k|lappy> but it won't give me a password for seth@ubuntu.com, since it has the same fingerprint as seth@sethkinast.com (same key, different IDs)
[04:53] <Riddell> how confusing
[10:05] <simon_> Riddell:Sorry, was asleep.  I'm just lurking in the channel to see how things are going :)
[12:34] <\sh> moins riddell
[12:43] <pef> for french people : http://www.fsffrance.org/news/article2005-11-25.fr.html :/
[12:44] <pef> opensources software may become illegal in France
[12:54] <author-psi> pef: omg
[12:54] <author-psi> pef: why?
[12:56] <pef> author-psi: opensource softwares cannot contains technical systems that allow a control of what you are doing, for example an activity which my be illegal
[12:56] <author-psi> pef: wtf... :/ mhm
[01:07] <jpatrick> Riddell: ping
[01:15] <amu> pef: stange, translated it via goole  
[01:41] <freeflying> amu: hi,how about your livecd
[01:42] <amu> upgraded runns without problems, if you have some time we can do it 
[01:56] <Riddell> jpat|away: hi
[01:57] <jpatrick> Riddell: just wondering about what to do with kxdocker...
[01:58] <Riddell> jpatrick: upload it with new version but minimal changes from debian
[01:58] <jpatrick> Riddell: I have uploaded a new one
[01:58] <Riddell> I think the changelog is the only thing that needs changing
[01:58] <jpatrick> Riddell: and this one makes a .deb
[01:58] <Riddell> that's always a good sign :)
[01:58] <jpatrick> (which has the files)
[01:58] <freeflying> Riddell: I've correct the error in rules and re-upload it 
[02:01] <jpatrick> Riddell: also updated StyleClock
[02:01] <Riddell> freeflying: which package?
[02:01] <freeflying> Riddell: skim
[02:01] <Riddell> ok, I'll take a look at those shortly
[02:02] <freeflying> eva need the next release 
[02:05] <jpatrick> Riddell: also changed compats -> 5
[02:06] <Riddell> jpatrick: on which?
[02:06] <jpatrick> Both
[02:11] <amu> freeflying: let me test the german version, the build runs without problems, something must be strange :) 
[02:12] <freeflying> amu: without problems , is it great? :)
[02:13] <amu> :) we'll see  
[06:08] <Riddell> mornfall: ping
[06:19] <ytannus> hello?
[06:19] <Riddell> hello ytannus 
[06:20] <ytannus> Hi Jonathan
[06:20] <Riddell> dood
[06:21] <ytannus> I red you wmail... thanks
[06:21] <Riddell> ytannus: doesn't matter if it's not your app, almost no pacakges are packaged by the author
[06:21] <Riddell> ytannus: and I recon your package would be a nice addition to our archives
[06:22] <ytannus> riddell: thanks, really I made a lot of package but I share it only with some friends...
[06:22] <Riddell> so the thing to do it point me at the sources and I'll review it and to poke a chap called siretat to give you an account on revu where you can upload it and it'll be reviewed properly
[06:22] <Riddell> what other packages have you made?
[06:22] <ytannus> right now I have this ones in mi hdd:
[06:23] <ytannus> comix-1.3.4_1.3.4-1_i386.deb  libborqt_6.9.0-3_i386.deb                metamonitor-0.3_0.3-1_i386.deb
[06:23] <ytannus> flatknifty_0.5-1_i386.deb     libsipphoneapi_0.78.20051020-1_i386.deb  metamonitor_0.4-1_i386.deb
[06:23] <ytannus> kdvdbackup_0.6-1_i386.deb     lingot_0.6.1-1_i386.deb                  wlassistant-0.5.4a_0.5.4a-1_i386.deb
[06:23] <ytannus> kurses_0.1-1_i386.deb         mdnsresponder_0.9.8-2_i386.deb
[06:23] <ytannus> well, lingot is not a kde application really
[06:23] <Riddell> wow :)
[06:24] <ytannus> ops, mdnsresponder is not my ;)
[06:24] <ytannus> anyway I can made all packages that we need... those are only what I need for mi computer
[06:24] <Riddell> so get an account on revu and upload the sources there, me or someone else will review them and before long we'll get them for all to use
[06:24] <ytannus> the thing is that I want to be a contributor ...just shoot me :)
[06:25] <Riddell> http://wiki.kubuntu.org/REVU
[06:26] <Riddell> actually the best way to help is to fix bugs but for some reason people prefer to make packages :)
[06:27] <ytannus> I guess that for fix bug you need to know programing, to make packages just sudo chackintall hehehe
[06:27] <ytannus> I'm not an expert programer, but I will try to check some bugs too
[06:27] <Riddell> woo :)
[06:28] <ytannus> ATTENTION: REVU HAS MOVED! Please update your dput.cf :S
[06:28] <Riddell> that was ages ago
[06:29] <Riddell> can probably be removed
[06:30] <ytannus> ok, my public key is sent...
[06:31] <ytannus> question, so I need a special program to upoload? revu is a program... what protocol is defined? 
[06:31] <ytannus> so I need = do I need
[06:32] <ytannus> please, forget my question... I found the answer....
[06:32] <Riddell> revu is http://revu.tauware.de/
[06:33] <Riddell> upload with dput, which is just a frontend to an ftp uploader
[06:34] <ytannus> where do you have the bug list?
[06:34] <ytannus> (I'm using ncftp :) )
[06:35] <Riddell> https://launchpad.net/people/kubuntu-team/+assignedbugs
[06:35] <Riddell> is the universe bugs
[06:35] <Riddell> and search for kde on bugzilla.ubuntu.com for the main bugs
[06:35] <ytannus> ok, I'm uploading some ones, let me know if are ok...
[06:35] <Riddell> probably a lot of the entires in those are duplicate or invalid in some way
[06:36] <Riddell> you have a revu account already?
[06:36] <ytannus> nop, I'm uploading using anonymous account
[06:36] <Riddell> hmm, I suspect it will just throw those away
[06:37] <ytannus> I miss something...sorry :)
[06:37] <Riddell> you need to get your key included, then debuild -S and sign the package, then dput revu foo.changes  to upload
[06:38] <ytannus> perfect
[06:38] <Riddell> but if you just upload the sources anywhere I can take a look at them nowish
[06:39] <ytannus> look: wiki said: "After your first upload, you will be automatically registered to the database and assigned a random password."
[06:40] <ytannus> but when I try to login i got: login for user "ytannus" failed, please retry or recover
[06:40] <Riddell> have you been given a password?
[06:40] <ytannus> yes and, the second time, no
[06:43] <Riddell> ytannus: /join #ubuntu-motu
[06:43] <ytannus> ok
[06:43] <ytannus>  /join #ubuntu-motu
[06:43] <ytannus> haha sorry
[06:43] <Riddell> no space :)
[06:43] <ytannus> ;)
[06:44] <\sh> Riddell: you uploaded cdbs already?
[06:44] <Riddell> \sh: I did but it failed and I've no idea why
[06:44] <Riddell> \sh: feel free to try and work out why
[06:45] <\sh> Riddell: cdbs? forget it :)
[06:45] <\sh> hehe..i'll have a look while gambas is building
[06:46] <\sh> hmmm....one test out of 8 failed...I wonder which one
[06:47] <Riddell> the recursive.sh one
[06:47] <Riddell> works fine in my pbuilder
[06:47] <\sh> hmmm...
[06:47] <\sh> buildd admin involvement :)
[06:48] <\sh> but infinity is away...and lamont hates cdbs :)
[06:48] <Riddell> that's why I pinged jbailey but I guess he's doing this weekend thing people talk about
[07:34] <lamont-away> \sh: and jbailey owns cdbs
[07:36] <\sh> lamont-away: bet now....cdbs build issue, or buildd issue? 50/50 and the winner will get some beer or whisky from me :)
[07:51] <lamont-away> ew.  that's a jbailey issue
[07:54] <\sh> cdbs to hell :)
[08:23] <Riddell> pef: you don't love kubuntu-bugs any more?
[08:55] <mdz> Riddell: libakode-dev build-depends: libpolyp-dev, see anastacia
[09:07] <Riddell> mdz: fixed in akode_2-rc1-1ubuntu2, which has compiled but has a NEW binary package
[09:08] <mdz> Riddell: odd, it's in queue/accepted
[09:09] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: is kmail and co. uploads coming soon?
[09:09] <mdz> Riddell: it was accepted, but didn't enter the archive
[09:09] <Riddell> Diablo-D3: done, see dapper-changes
[09:10] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: yay.
[09:10] <Riddell> mdz: why might it do that?
[09:10] <mdz> Riddell: I don't know; looks like one for elmo
[09:11] <mdz> queue/REPORT says it's being accepted, but it's still there
[09:37] <\sh> Riddell: hmm..do you want to backport gpod support from 1.4svn?
[09:43] <Riddell> \sh: no, not if it's not in 1.3
[09:43] <\sh> Riddell: it will be supported in 1.4
[09:44] <Riddell> \sh: we'll wait for that then
[09:44] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: can I ask you your opinion on something?
[09:44] <Riddell> Diablo-D3: yes
[09:44] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: do you think there is room for another desktop environment?
[09:44] <Riddell> no!
[09:44] <Riddell> quite enough already
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> but what if gnome and kde are flawed, and have no interest in fixing said flaws?
[09:45] <Riddell> we have interests in fixing all flaws
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> actually, kde only has one major flaw
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> that flaw is the fact it uses c++
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> I dont see that one being fixed anytime soon.
[09:46] <Riddell> well guidance as used in kubuntu is the first program in KDE SVN that uses python
[09:46] <Riddell> but c++ is better than C
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> I dont see python as the answer either
[09:47] <Riddell> that would be gnustep you want then
[09:47] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: ever notice who owns #gnustep-dev? ;)
[09:48] <Riddell> but I don't see any significant advantage in porting the whole of kde and qt to another compiled language
[09:48] <Diablo-D3> but yeah, I dont think gnustep is the answer either, mainly because gnustep never formed a desktop environment.
[09:48] <Diablo-D3> though that doesnt top me from using gnustep to further my goals.
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> *step
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> argh
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> *ess tee ooh pee
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> curse the typo daemon!
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: I dont see any reason why c++ was used in the first place
[09:49] <Diablo-D3> c++ only causes problems to large projects.
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> kde, of course, is a good example of how to beat c++ into submission, but you still suffer from other c++isms
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> such as this whole abi transition
[09:51] <Diablo-D3> I wouldnt care if these only happened once in a blue moon, but it happens every new major gcc version
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> if kde had been written in objc, this would never happen.
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: so thats why I think kde is almost perfect... the choice of language was wrong.
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> other than that, the quality itself is pretty much unsurpassed.
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> and the functionality is great
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: so, with that said, you still think there is no room for a third major desktop environment?
[09:54] <Riddell> c++ transitions are a pain for packagers like me but they shouldn't affect users.  and I'm not convinced that the same thing wouldn't happen with objective-c
[09:54] <Riddell> nope
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> the same thing wouldnt happen because the api is unchanging.
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> and the abi 'doesnt exist'
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> all the actual abi stuff is defined by C.
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> well, the stuff that matters anyhow
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: Im wondering if you're right, though
[09:56] <Diablo-D3> I've asked a few others who's opinions I value (you included, of course) and they've been saying the same thing
[09:57] <Diablo-D3> even some of the hardcore gnustep fans and devs pretty much wonder where an objc-based desktop environment's place is
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: you know whats funny?
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> gnustep was the original gnome.
[09:58] <Diablo-D3> until the fsf decided to kick gnustep to the roadside, and startup gnome
[10:01] <Diablo-D3> they decided "oh, objc sucks! we need something thats C! and has no functionality! and is a total pain in the ass to develop for!"
[10:02] <Diablo-D3> "and we need to kill kde, because it uses qt which isnt FREE SOFTWARE!"
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> Riddell: do me a favor, dont ever stop working on kde
[10:05] <Riddell> qt wasn't free software, I don't blame people for starting something that was
[10:06] <Diablo-D3> so? you dont go make a whole new desktop environment for that
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> that just gives all the people who worked hard on kde the finger
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> just because qt wanst free software doesnt mean kde wasnt
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> they should have tried to make a fully functioning qt clone instead
[10:08] <Riddell> they did, but it's much harder to do
[10:08] <Diablo-D3> so less effort would have been wasted on making an entirely new one, which gnome ended up being a total and complete failure and/or mess anyhow
[10:08] <Riddell> see Java
[10:09] <Diablo-D3> no, java is different
[10:09] <Diablo-D3> we already had a fully functioning c++ compiler, qt itself used it
[10:09] <Diablo-D3> and we already understood how qt worked, it wasnt a black box.
[10:09] <apokryphos> it's hardly obvious that gnome has been a complete failure; they have quite a big market, even if it's not as big as kde's
[10:10] <Diablo-D3> apokryphos: I have different ways of measuring if foss is a failure or not
[10:10] <Diablo-D3> apokryphos: infact, gnome could have more users than kde, and it still would be a complete failure
[10:10] <apokryphos> you'll have to forgive me if I disagree with your definition then ;-)
[10:10] <Diablo-D3> the code design in most places is horrid, the way apps are designed altogether is horrid, it depends on gtk and glib which are completely horrid
[10:11] <Diablo-D3> and as I said earlier, its nearly impossible to develop for
[10:38] <pef> Riddell: just changed email address :) @ubuntu instead of dev.erodia.net
[10:40] <Diablo-D3> hrm