[12:14] <lfittl> what should be done with motu bug reports that request a breezy backport? (malone #3852)
[12:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3852: breezy zeroconf package can cause ARP storms Fix req. for: zeroconf (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3852
[12:16] <siretart> lfittl: first step would be to fix it in dapper
[12:17] <lfittl> siretart: it is already fixed in the dapper version
[12:18] <\sh> then write a mail to ubuntu-backports ml
[12:20] <\sh> ok..good night folks
[12:20] <crimsun> 'night, \sh
[12:20] <\sh> you have to take over now :)
[12:20] <crimsun> ;)
[12:20] <siretart> gn8 \sh
[12:21] <crimsun> 'evening/'morning, siretart
[12:21] <siretart> lfittl: if the fix is reasonably small, and someone prepares an upload, you could also upload it to dapper-updates
[12:21] <siretart> but mdz would have to approve it
[12:21] <lfittl> you mean breezy-updates?
[12:22] <siretart> argl, sure breezy-updates
[12:22] <siretart> crimsun: I'm going to bed soon ;)
[12:22] <siretart> I just reassigned that bug
[12:22] <crimsun> siretart: kk :)
[12:23] <lfittl> k, I will check the amount of changes for the bug fix
[12:33] <lfittl> seems that backporting the new version is the best thing, I'm going to bed now, gn8 all :)
[12:33] <crimsun> 'night
[12:48] <ajmitch> afternoon :)
[12:48] <crimsun> ajmitch: 'afternoon :)
[12:49] <ajmitch> I see the channel is a bit quieter now than it was earlier
[12:49] <ajmitch> thankfully ;)
[12:50] <ajmitch> how's the merge progress today?
[12:51] <crimsun> I've done about ten (early this morning), digging back into it now
[12:53] <ajmitch> impressive
[12:53] <crimsun> riddell, sh, and siretart have both been pounding away
[12:54] <crimsun> s/both/all/
[12:54] <ajmitch> yeah, I've see \sh_away's efforts
[12:54] <ajmitch> does he sleep at all?
[12:54] <crimsun> he's purportedly asleep now, but dapper-changes might reveal otherwise ;)
[12:55] <siretart> gn8 folks
[12:55] <ajmitch> just fixing f-spot so it compiles again
[12:55] <ajmitch> night siretart :)
[12:55] <ajmitch> oops, forgot 00list
[01:07] <LaserJock> azeem: any progress towards getting the new ghemical in sid?
[01:08] <azeem> no, sorry.  I still need to fix mpqc first
[01:08] <azeem> I'm hacking on heimdal right now, after that, I'll look at mpqc again
[01:08] <Kyral> Do we have a new MOTUScience member LJ?
[01:08] <crimsun> what's broken with mpqc?
[01:08] <LaserJock> azeem: sweet
[01:08] <azeem> hrm
[01:08] <azeem> actually
[01:08] <crimsun> I did the libstdc++ allocator merge earlier this morning
[01:08] <azeem> crimsun: new upstream needs tuning
[01:09] <crimsun> azeem: k
[01:09] <azeem> but yeah, I could just use the old one
[01:09] <LaserJock> Kyral: oh yea, parktownprawn on ubuntuforums
[01:09] <ajmitch> hi azeem
[01:10] <Kyral> huh?
[01:10] <azeem> hi Andrew!
[01:12] <LaserJock> Kyral: the latest MOTUScience member is Kevin Goldstein, he worked a lot on the UbuntuScientists wiki and is parktownprawn on the ubuntuforums
[01:12] <Kyral> ah
[01:12] <LaserJock> Kyral: do you mean azeem
[01:12] <Kyral> or him...
[01:13] <LaserJock> azeem should be ;-)
[01:13] <Kyral> heh
[01:13] <Kyral> I can't wait for the merge to end
[01:14] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[01:15] <bmonty> hey LaserJock
[01:27] <LaserJock> I know that checkinstall is very well looked upon but what would you guys suggest for people wanting to make their own .debs?
[01:27] <LaserJock> wow s/is/isn't/
[01:27] <Kyral> yaaaaah
[01:27] <Kyral> I say read the New Maintainers Guide
[01:30] <LaserJock> perhaps, but I think a lot of people would be turned off by the NMG because it is quite lengthy. Maybe that is just something they are going to have to deal with
[01:30] <Kyral> If they intend to distribute then they have to use the DNMG
[01:31] <LaserJock> Kyral: I understand that but what if it is for them only (and maybe some friends). I've used checkinstall in the past and it was very easy
[01:31] <Kyral> if that is the case go ahead
[01:32] <Kyral> But just because you can use Checkinstall doesn't mean you know how to make debpacks
[01:33] <LaserJock> right, I was just wondering if there was an alternative that was kind of a compromise
[01:34] <Kyral> Not to my knowledge
[01:34] <LaserJock> I guess that that would be a good reason for having the Ubuntu Packaging Guide ;-)
[01:34] <Kyral> heh
[01:34] <Kyral> hey Corey
[01:35] <Burgundavia> salut Kyral
[01:35] <spacey> where is that guide?
[01:35] <Kyral> Oh wait I'm signed up to do the install guide right
[01:37] <ajmitch> I'd better talk with doko before I merge all these zope packages
[01:37] <Kyral> hehe
[01:38] <LaserJock> spacey: it is on doc.ubuntu.com but it is just started so it will probably change a lot
[01:38] <Kyral> LJ need any help on that
[01:38] <LaserJock> Kyral: I certainly will at least when I get to pbuilder  ;-)
[01:38] <Kyral> lol
[01:39] <LaserJock> Kyral: right now I'm trying to figure out where to go with it. What the needs are, etc.
[01:39] <Kyral> Yah what should I do for the install guide
[01:42] <LaserJock> Kyral: I certainly don't know ;-)
[01:43] <ajmitch> woohoo, I got to file bug #5000 on malone ;)
[01:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5000: cmfsin (Ubuntu) - zope-cmfsin: merge new debian version Fix req. for: zope-cmfsin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5000
[01:45] <crimsun> hehe
[01:48] <ajmitch> hm
[01:48] <ajmitch> I wonder how bug 4743 is showing up on the assigned merge list?
[01:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4743: zope logrotation insists in handling a "default" instance even when it doesn't exist. Fix req. for: zope (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4743
[01:48] <ajmitch> I don't think that kiko is going to be merging zope 2.6
[02:42] <Kyral> hey hub
[02:43] <Kyral> wtf...
[02:43] <Kyral> damn Bored2k
[02:46] <LaserJock> Kyral: you on #ubuntuforums again?
[02:46] <Kyral> I'm always there
[02:46] <Kyral> bored2k went rampage
[02:47] <Kyral> Got the people in #debian pissed off
[02:47] <Kyral> I didn't even see that he buzzed here
[02:55] <LaserJock> Kyral: you know where there is a log for #ubuntuforums?
[02:55] <Kyral> KingBahumut and Flexius already have it
[02:55] <Kyral> They will deal with bored2k
[02:56] <Kyral> I'm sure you could ask for one though
[03:18] <crimsun> who is "bored2k?"
[03:19] <Kyral> its over now
[03:19] <Kyral> forget it
[03:24] <bmonty> is there a way to make debchange default to dapper?
[03:25] <bmonty> i set dapper in the changelog and then debchange changes it back :(
[03:26] <tseng> bmonty: you could use dch.
[03:26] <tseng> hm oh
[03:26] <tseng> debchange is just an alias?
[03:26] <bmonty> i think so
[03:27] <minghua> dch == debchange
[03:27] <tseng> yes i see that
[03:27] <minghua> bmonty: just remember to use -D option :-)
[03:27] <minghua> Is there any MOTU who can review my sync request?
[03:28] <crimsun> sure, what's up?
[03:28] <minghua> it's for grace and libmath++, bug #4403 and #4087
[03:28] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4403: grace: merge new debian version Fix req. for: grace (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4403
[03:28] <bmonty> minghua: I try to remember, but I forget too often
[03:28] <minghua> crimsun: I've tested both in dapper pbuilder, just sync'ing from debian would be good
[03:29] <crimsun> minghua: then that's enough
[03:32] <bmonty> crimsun: can you please upload malone #4574? I have now pulled my head out of my ass and made it dapper.
[03:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4574: fam: merge new debian version Fix req. for: fam (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4574
[03:43] <crimsun> bmonty: done.
[03:43] <bmonty> crimsun: thanks
[04:21] <hub> I have a library that does not change the soname
[04:21] <hub> but has a minore that changes
[04:21] <hub> shall I keep the same binary package name>
[04:22] <hub> ?
[04:22] <crimsun> what is the binary package?
[04:23] <hub> libenchant1c2a
[04:24] <hub> I'm package the 1.2.0 so that I can build AbiWord HEAD
[04:24] <crimsun> it's -already- libenchant1c2a, or it was libenchant1c2 before?
[04:25] <crimsun> if the latter case, the situation is moot due to the libstdc++ allocator transition
[04:27] <hub> already 1c2a
[04:28] <hub> but I want to upgrade to 1.2.0
[04:28] <hub> current is 1.1.6
[04:29] <crimsun> I presume the bump is from new symbols?
[04:29] <hub> yeah
[04:29] <hub> but soname is the same
[04:30] <hub> so I suspect it is upward compatibility
[04:30] <hub> I'll ask the upstream maintainer anyhow
[04:30] <crimsun> yeah, that's a better bet
[04:35] <hub> looks like I'll have to provide a package source for them
[04:35] <hub> unless it hits dapper
[07:05] <jabra> I would like to get some comments on a security tool I have been working on. I am wondering if any would like to take a look?
[07:21] <jabra> http://pbnj.sf.net
[07:45] <aigarius> I just fixed the stupidest bug ever in libgphoto2 - see http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1367324&group_id=8874&atid=108874 for a one line fix that reduces memory usage when downloading photos via PTP from serveral hundred MB to 5-10 Mb
[07:46] <aigarius> It would be very nice to fix this in Ubuntu dapper and breezy
[07:46] <Burgundavia> aigarius, file a bug in malone on gphoto
[07:46] <Burgundavia> and include your patch
[07:46] <aigarius> ok
[07:47] <Burgundavia> link it to the sourceforge bug as well
[07:47] <Burgundavia> aigarius, as your are DD, if you fix it in sid it will ubuntu
[07:48] <Burgundavia> s/it will/it will hit
[07:48] <aigarius> Burgundavia, I just did a NMU to sid
[07:48] <Burgundavia> aigarius, then in the your malone bug report simply ask for a sync
[07:48] <aigarius> ok
[07:50] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: so far, 128 people have watched you say that you use ubuntu :)
[07:51] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, where does that place me int he rankings?
[07:52] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: 17th
[07:52] <Treenaks> uh no
[07:52] <Burgundavia> how many videos are there?
[07:52] <Treenaks> 16th
[07:52] <Treenaks> 23
[07:52] <Burgundavia> is marilize first?
[07:52] <Treenaks> no, sabdfl, then claire, then jdub, marilize is #4
[07:53] <Burgundavia> in other news, I need a new hackergotchi
[07:54] <Burgundavia> marilize and claire said I looked "evil" in my hackergotchi and was much funnier in real life
[07:54] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: didn't hub take a picture of you?
[07:55] <Burgundavia> he might have
[07:55] <Burgundavia> but I think I successfully avoided the cameras at UBZ, just like at Mataro
[07:55] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: hub took one of mine, and Seveas tried to gimp it... http://www.kaarsemaker.net/home/guid58#guid58
[07:55] <Treenaks> uh, one of me
[07:56] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: you could take a still from the video and gimp that into a hackergotchi
[07:56] <Burgundavia> I like the donkey ears
[07:57] <Treenaks> they're supposed to be devil-like horns...
[07:57] <Burgundavia> they look like donkeys ears....
[07:57] <Treenaks> oh well :)
[07:59] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, how did the translating go?
[07:59] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: great!
[07:59] <Treenaks> although we mostly translated the webpage etc.
[07:59] <Treenaks> (as translating dapper is pointless without a string freeze)
[08:00] <Burgundavia> true
[08:00] <Burgundavia> as is documenting it
[09:12] <zakame> hi all
[09:12] <crimsun> hi
[09:13] <zakame> ei crimsun :)
[09:55] <ajmitch> evening
[09:55] <crimsun> 'evening, ajmitch
[09:55] <ajmitch> how's things?
[09:55] <ajmitch> I see you've been taking good care of wpasupplicant :)
[09:56] <siretart> morning
[09:56] <ajmitch> hey siretart, StrikeForce
[09:56] <ajmitch> s/strikeforce/stevenk/
[09:56] <StevenK> Missed!
[09:57] <ajmitch> never rely on tab completion
[09:57] <siretart> huhu StevenK, ajmitch, crimsun and rest of '*' :)
[09:57] <StevenK> ajmitch: I noticed you're watching my wiki page ...
[09:57] <ajmitch> siretart: having a relaxing weekend? :)
[09:57] <crimsun> ajmitch: n'bad, of course in my excitement I forgot to handle the upgrade case, heh
[09:57] <siretart> ajmitch: well, I'm hacking on revu2
[09:57] <ajmitch> StevenK: watching * :)
[09:57] <ajmitch> siretart: great!
[09:57] <crimsun> 'lo, siretart, StevenK
[09:58] <ajmitch> siretart: if I can help out in any way..
[09:58] <siretart> ajmitch: sure. have you a checkout if the current svn
[09:58] <ajmitch> nope
[09:59] <siretart> okay, I started to write accept.py, which is for accepting uploads from contributors
[09:59] <siretart> it uses the DSCParser and Changesparser, which I've stolen from StevenK ;)
[10:00] <ajmitch> siretart: svn url?
[10:00] <StevenK> That's ChangesParser. :-P
[10:00] <siretart> ajmitch: do you have an trac account?
[10:00] <siretart> StevenK: ;)
[10:01] <ajmitch> siretart: probably not
[10:02] <siretart> ajmitch: 2 possibilites: if you want to checkout via http (and use trac), then please add yoursef to /srv/revu-trac/trac.htpasswd
[10:02] <siretart> ajmitch: or you check out /srv/svn/revu2 directly
[10:02] <ajmitch> checking out directly for now
[10:02] <ajmitch> will add myself there as well
[10:03] <siretart> as you wish.
[10:03] <ajmitch> I'd better look over the spec again too :)
[10:04] <ajmitch> siretart: how far did you get with the launchpad auth?
[10:04] <ajmitch> still blocked on LP, I guess?
[10:04] <siretart> ajmitch: well, it is mainly a elmo matter
[10:05] <ajmitch> ah
[10:05] <siretart> ajmitch: he 'just' needs to open an tcp port on the AuthServer
[10:05] <ajmitch> I understamd he has a long queue :)
[10:05] <siretart> the implementation is just a few lines copy'n pasted from the lp wiki
[10:05] <ajmitch> about 2 lines, iirc
[10:06] <siretart> I was counting checking the lp group, too ;)
[10:06] <ajmitch> I'm sure it could be done in < 2 lines of perl ;)
[10:06] <ajmitch> whether you could read it 5 minutes later is another matter altogether
[10:06] <siretart> but noone would want to read it, then ;)
[10:09] <siretart> ajmitch: I think you must be in group www-data for being able to checkout revu2 via svn+ssh
[10:10] <ajmitch> nope
[10:10] <ajmitch> I checked it out fine
[10:11] <siretart> intresting..
[10:12] <ajmitch> I won't be able to commit though
[10:12] <ajmitch> not until I'm in the www-data group
[10:12] <siretart> ah, thats possible
[10:12] <siretart> well, you are root anyway ;)
[10:12] <ajmitch> yep
[10:13] <ajmitch> I'll try not to break too much ;)
[10:13] <siretart> okay.
[10:13] <siretart> sistpoty has mainly worked on the classes/ dir, that are the classes for the webinterface
[10:13] <siretart> i'm currently working on scripts/accept.py, which is for accepting uploads from contributors
[10:15] <ajmitch> suggestions for something for me to look at?
[10:17] <siretart> thats what I would call 'stage2'
[10:17] <siretart> accept.py is doing 'stage1'
[10:17] <siretart> it passes a debian sourcepackage with orig.tar.gz to stage2,
[10:18] <siretart> if the uploader 'forgot' to attach the orig.tar.gz, accept.py tries to download it from the revu archive, and falls back to ubuntu and debian archives
[10:18] <siretart> so that stage2 can be sure that a 'dpkg-source -x' will succeeed
[10:19] <siretart> ajmitch: stage2 should call all checks, which should be triggered automatically, like linda/lintian etc
[10:20] <ajmitch> but not building
[10:20] <ajmitch> since packages need to go into a build approval queue after stage 1
[10:21] <siretart> ajmitch: so how about setting up a dapper chroot under the account 'elma', and scripting something which does the lintian/linda reports in that chroot?
[10:21] <siretart> exactly
[10:21] <ajmitch> a package should be well formed by the time it passes stage 1, right?
[10:21] <ajmitch> sure
[10:21] <siretart> so I'd suggest that we write all tests, automatic ones and non-automatic ones in separate scripts, so that stage2 can call them individually
[10:21] <siretart> use 'sudo -u elma -i' to become elma, it has no password set
[10:22] <ajmitch> heh, sudo asks for my password though :)
[10:23] <ajmitch> su would work better
[10:24] <siretart> thats on purpose, because su would ask for elma's pw, which is not set
[10:41] <ajmitch> siretart: you merged gobby, but we have to rebuild it again sorry ;)
[10:42] <ajmitch> the cursed libsigc++2.0-0c2a
[10:42] <StevenK> Yes, we've done a C++ transistion, so Mathius thought it would be fun to do a C++ transistion in a C++ transistion.
[10:42] <ajmitch> I love c++ now
[10:43] <StevenK> Keep talking, I'm reloading.
[10:43] <siretart> StevenK: have you already applied for ubuntu membership?
[10:43] <ajmitch> :)
[10:44] <StevenK> siretart: No. I thought I had to have a significant contribution first.
[10:44] <ajmitch> there was some rumour that DDs got in from their debian contribution
[10:44] <siretart> I think we had cases
[10:45] <ajmitch> but I only recently heard that one
[10:45] <siretart> for ubuntu membership, that should be okay. This would get you a stevenk@ubuntu.com, which is autowhitelisted
[10:45] <ajmitch> I wish I got in with that exception :)
[10:45] <StevenK> You didn't?
[10:45] <ajmitch> no, I became a MOTU at the start of the year
[10:45] <siretart> careful, I'm talking about ubuntu member, not ubuntu developer!
[10:45] <ajmitch> when it was easy
[10:46] <ajmitch> I can't recall if I was made member & MOTU in the same meeting
[10:46] <ajmitch> main upload rights took a little longer
[10:46] <crimsun> ajmitch: yes, you were fasttracked pre-Hoary
[10:46] <StevenK> I'd like to know if my Debian contributions do count, though.
[10:46] <siretart> yes, there was a pre-hoary exception for recruiting motus. I tried to fall into that exception, but I was too late ;)
[10:47] <ajmitch> hm, nifty gnome 2.12 splash on debian experimental
[10:47] <siretart> StevenK: for ubuntu membership, I think so, because we have all your packages in ubuntu ;)
[10:47] <Ubugtu> Error: Error getting Gnome Bugzilla bug #2: NotFound
[10:47] <StevenK> So do I add myself to the CommunityCouncil wiki and show up?
[10:48] <StevenK> Doesn't that mean I need someone to vouch for me?
[10:48] <crimsun> you need to do that (add yourself, show up)
[10:48] <ajmitch> probably
[10:48] <siretart> StevenK: yes, and try to join this group https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntumembers
[10:48] <ajmitch> but the CC is made up of DDs
[10:48] <StevenK> (And this gives me three e-mail addresses at home, whee)
[10:48] <siretart> StevenK: that group is moderated, and the CC goes through that list
[10:48] <ajmitch> only 3?
[10:48] <crimsun> I don't think someone will need to vouch for you, since you already are a DD
[10:48] <ajmitch> oh good, f-spot works fine
[10:49] <ajmitch> ready for upload to experimental for jordi :)
[10:49] <crimsun> particularly since you've been documenting your work on the wiki
[10:49] <siretart> excatly
[10:50] <StevenK> Well, as soon as I can figure out what to do with speech-dispatcher, that'll be four merges.
[10:51] <StevenK> Which is what, nothing? :-P
[10:51] <schweeb> ajmitch: well, I'm a member, but not a MOTU
[10:51] <schweeb> next week... Dapper time
[10:51] <ajmitch> StevenK: more than I've uploaded to dapper :)
[10:51] <schweeb> then pkg mgmt++
[10:51] <StevenK> Duh, I'm new, and still care.
[10:51] <ajmitch> since I've got a nice backlog of debian stuff to get through
[10:51] <StevenK> :-P
[10:52] <StevenK> My Debian stuff is waiting on a Perl package going through NEW.
[10:52] <ajmitch> no point letting my debian work slip further :)
[10:52] <StevenK> Damn it, it's been like two weeks.
[10:53] <StevenK> ajmitch: Want to maintain a very small Perl package? :-)
[10:53] <ajmitch> StevenK: now we just have to figure out how to make the debian developers love us
[10:53] <ajmitch> perl & I don't mix
[10:53] <StevenK> Muahahah
[10:53] <StevenK> apt-cache show libpoe-perl
[10:53] <ajmitch> it's bad enough that I just inherited a php package
[10:53] <schweeb> I need to re-learn perl
[10:54] <schweeb> still haven't bothered with python yet
[10:54] <schweeb> I still have systems that don't have PERL yet :(
[10:54] <ajmitch> ubuntu isn't done until sysvinit is replaced with python
[10:55] <siretart> ajmitch: explain that to the ltsp guys ;)
[10:55] <ajmitch> siretart: they won't mind :)
[10:55] <ajmitch> python is good for the soul
[10:56] <Lathiat> ruby is better
[10:56] <ajmitch> yay, language flamewars
[10:56] <ajmitch> Lathiat: good to see you round, got your LCA tickets sorted? :)
[10:56] <Lathiat> yep
[10:56] <schweeb> one of the biggest LTSP guys lives right here near Detroit, I don't think he cares terribly about python
[10:56] <ajmitch> sweet
[10:56] <schweeb> McQuillan
[10:56] <Lathiat> all set to go
[10:56] <siretart> I think mono would win the flamewar, because it can integrate all of them ;)
[10:57] <Lathiat> and i just started a job but i informed him i'd be at a conference in january and hes fine with that :)
[10:57] <ajmitch> oh nice, still at uni though?
[10:57] <ajmitch> we need to get avahi 0.6.1 into dapper
[10:57] <Lathiat> gonna take next year off
[10:57] <ajmitch> ok
[10:58] <schweeb> avahi being mdns?
[10:58] <Lathiat> ya
[10:58] <Lathiat> http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/Avahi
[10:58] <ajmitch> avahi being the only decent, free mdns implementation
[10:58] <schweeb> I have yet to use any mdns implementation
[10:58] <ajmitch> morning \sh
[10:59] <Lathiat> siretart: mono integrates with ruby?
[10:59] <ajmitch> \sh: you're burning through all the merges :)
[10:59] <schweeb> you hear jorge/whiprush went all faggoty for a while?  he may be all winodws now?
[10:59] <ajmitch> schweeb: eh what?
[10:59] <ajmitch> how?
[10:59] <schweeb> excuse my termage
[10:59] <schweeb> but he went to mostly windows.. somehow he's all disenchanted
[11:00] <ajmitch> I find it hard to believe
[11:00] <siretart> Lathiat: aren't there ruby bindings for mono?
[11:00] <\sh> moins
[11:00] <Lathiat> siretart: 'bindings' ?
[11:00] <siretart> hi \sh
[11:00] <Lathiat> no langauge interpretor for ruby for mono that im aware of
[11:00] <schweeb> ajmitch: me too... he's the one that convinced me to go from RH->Sid in the frist place
[11:00] <\sh> moins siretart
[11:00] <Lathiat> coudl be a fun project maybe :)
[11:00] <siretart> Lathiat: bad ruby ;)
[11:00] <schweeb> like 3 yrs ago
[11:01] <ajmitch> schweeb: we need independant confirmation for these sort of ill rumours
[11:01] <ajmitch> surely he couldn't just turn
[11:02] <schweeb> I'm the first harbinger of such turnage... although he may still yet be saved
[11:02] <schweeb> believe me, I was the most disappointed of all
[11:02] <StevenK> Icky
[11:02] <ajmitch> StevenK: no kidding
[11:02] <ajmitch> it's hard for me, that'd be 3am
[11:02] <StevenK> ajmitch: Hell, I was going to ask you to be in my fanclub, but not if it's 3am.
[11:03] <schweeb> http://schweeb.wordpress.com/2005/11/17/the-linux-bandwagon/ <--- this is about him
[11:03] <ajmitch> so I tend to skip most of the nighttime meetings now unless they're MOTU meetings
[11:03] <schweeb> ajmitch: he makes me ;_;
[11:03] <schweeb> I'm pouting a lot
[11:04] <ajmitch> just slap some sense into himi & he'll come out of it
[11:04] <Lathiat> siretart: hrm, http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-PaloAlto/9251/ruby/nrb.html and http://www.saltypickle.com/rubydotnet/
[11:04] <schweeb> he's a pretty stubborn bastard
[11:04] <schweeb> believe me
[11:04] <schweeb> known him long enough to know that
[11:05] <ajmitch> StevenK: mako always looks for 'sustained' contributions
[11:05] <StevenK> So, a merge I'm doing runs $(MAKE) distclean on clean, which will run ./configure if the Makefile doesn't exist. Should I stop it doing that?
[11:05] <ajmitch> so if the DD thing doesn't help, you need to be around at least a month or usually 2, to get membership
[11:05] <StevenK> Then I may as well wait.
[11:06] <StevenK> But I don't want to bug elmo to whitelist me.
[11:06] <siretart> why not?
[11:06] <ajmitch> he'll get to the whitelisting
[11:06] <siretart> he gets paid for that ;)
[11:06] <schweeb> I've heard mako isn't employed by canonical anymore... and he wasn't a huge help on the CC for getting me membership when I emailed them
[11:06] <schweeb> although he's still a kickass guy
[11:06] <ajmitch> schweeb: he's not, and he's still on the CC
[11:07] <schweeb> ah, makes sense enough
[11:07] <ajmitch> he's doing the $100 laptop thing now
[11:07] <Burgundavia> schweeb, he is a very very busy person
[11:07] <schweeb> so I've seend
[11:07] <schweeb> *seen
[11:07] <ajmitch> StevenK: I generally just care about whether the package builds properly from a fresh start in pbuilder, I like to introduce as few changes as necessary
[11:08] <ajmitch> anything that debian maintainers don't accept, we have to carry to the mext merge cycle
[11:08] <ajmitch> or drop
[11:08] <StevenK> ajmitch: It's a one-line patch in debian/rules, and it stops ./configure being run twice.
[11:08] <schweeb> one of these days, he's been pondering starting an open source neighborhood in the Detroit (free housing) area... be interested (very much so) in seeing how that turn sout
[11:08] <StevenK> This is my problem - it's a small change, but do we want to keep maintaining it.
[11:09] <azeem> StevenK: how does it run ./configure when the Makefile doesn't exist?
[11:09] <ajmitch> StevenK: if it works, & is documented in the changelog, might as well try it
[11:09] <ajmitch> & send it to the debian maintainer
[11:09] <ajmitch> hi azeem
[11:10] <azeem> heya
[11:10] <StevenK> Hrm.
[11:11] <schweeb> I'm usually like Mr HaHa... <lost reference... nm>
[11:12] <StevenK> I'm not sure. the first three lines of the clean target are dh_testdir, rm and $(MAKE) distclean
[11:12] <StevenK> And running fakeroot debian/rules clean shows dh_testdir and then ./configure, so it is the $(MAKE)
[11:12] <\sh> StevenK: not obvious
[11:13] <crimsun> mm bombard-elmo-with-syncs hour :)
[11:13] <azeem> does it depend on some other target, like config.status?
[11:13] <ajmitch> crimsun: sure :)
[11:13] <StevenK> Ahhh, it depends on config.status for some reason.
[11:13] <StevenK> Ahhhh, that runs ./configure
[11:14] <azeem> that's what dh-make does, for some reason
[11:25] <StevenK> ajmitch: And you said elmo would get around to it. It's been four days, damn it. :-)
[11:26] <ajmitch> that's not long
[11:26] <ajmitch> it took him at least 2 weeks to get my new GPG key into the keyring :)
[11:27] <StevenK> ajmitch: I went from NM to DD in five days. I lost my key and had a new one in the keyring in two days.
[11:27] <ajmitch> nice
[11:27] <StevenK> ajmitch: I'm *incredibly* lucky when it comes to dealing with elmo. :-)
[11:27] <Mithrandir> StevenK: whom did you sleep with for that to happen? :-)
[11:27] <ajmitch> that was early 90s, right? ;)
[11:27] <StevenK> ajmitch: Nope, 2001.
[11:27] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: it's called 'riding the wild elmo'
[11:27] <StevenK> Heh
[11:27] <StevenK> Mithrandir: No-one, actually.
[11:28] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RideTheWildElmo
[11:28] <StevenK> Ran 198 tests in 4.207s
[11:28] <StevenK> FAILED (failures=4, errors=75)
[11:31] <StevenK> I'd forgotten how fragile Linda's bootstrapping stage is.
[11:32] <siretart> :)
[11:33] <pef> hello
[11:34] <ajmitch> hi pef
[11:34] <ajmitch> siretart: it's part of your secret plan to sabotage debian?
[11:34] <ajmitch> drive all the DDs mad
[11:36] <StevenK> Drive? I'm already mad.
[11:36] <siretart> ajmitch: sabotaging debian to make my own nm procedure more easy.. sounds like a plan :)
[11:36] <ajmitch> haha
[11:37] <ajmitch> no, it means less for us to merge
[11:37] <SloMoSnail> and more work for us to fix stuff or stay uptodate ;)
[11:37] <ajmitch> StevenK: you're australian, mad by default ;)
[11:38] <ajmitch> we have jdub as the 'typical aussie' :)
[11:40] <Seveas> in an orange prison overall :)
[11:42] <StevenK> Oh my God.
[11:43] <StevenK> jdub is nowhere typical.
[11:43] <StevenK> Er, nowhere typical
[11:43] <StevenK> Bloody hell, nowhere near typical
[11:43] <Seveas> :)
[11:43] <Seveas> jdub is a typical jdub
[11:43] <Seveas> a unique species :)
[11:44] <ajmitch> StevenK: don't worry, I've spent enough time in .au to know they're not that bad :)
[11:48] <ajmitch> you have linda in some revision control?
[11:53] <StevenK> *nods* SVN
[11:55] <siretart> is she so bad?
[11:55] <ajmitch> sleep time, night all
[11:56] <slomo> gn8 ajmitch
[11:59] <siretart> gn8 ajmitch
[11:59] <StevenK> siretart: At the moment she is.
[01:34] <herve> hello
[01:39] <\sh> well..when do heise.de drop their "the southafrican linux distribution" thing....that's not true
[02:54] <siretart> re
[02:59] <hub> he siretart
[03:02] <siretart> hey hub!
[03:10] <\sh> re
[03:10] <siretart> \sh: http://tiber.tauware.de/~siretart/unmet/
[03:12] <\sh> siretart: cool
[03:12] <zakame> hi all
[03:13] <\sh> siretart: but i think we will wait for the unmet deps until uvf
[03:13] <siretart> \sh: yes, so do I
[03:14] <siretart> \sh: but I was too annoyed about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps
[03:14] <\sh> siretart: not only u
[03:14] <\sh> siretart: well...lets check if we can do a nice list system like the MoM stuff now
[03:16] <siretart> \sh: this time, I think we should use something like lpbugs for unmet deps
[03:16] <\sh> siretart: well...it's easy to adjust :) new text and file bugs :)
[03:17] <siretart> jupp
[03:24] <encolpe> Hi
[03:25] <zakame> hi there
[03:29] <herve> grmblblbl
[03:30] <\sh> good afternoon herve and a happy 1. sunday 4 weeks before x-mas :)
[03:30] <herve> argh, I need ideas for presents!
[03:30] <herve> good afternoon to you too
[03:30] <zakame> awww herve
[03:40] <\sh> hub: u moved already?
[03:40] <hub> \sh: last sunday
[03:40] <hub> \sh: done in 2 weeks
[03:40] <hub> from the time I search for a new place to the end
[03:41] <\sh> hub: so no montreal anymore :)
[03:41] <hub> Ottawa now
[03:41] <hub> that's life
[03:41] <\sh> well...when I have the money and time...then I have to visit you and your wife in ottawa :) repeating the meeting from montreal :)
[03:42] <hub> sure
[03:43] <hub> I have more room now
[03:43] <hub> it is a house
[03:44] <\sh> wow :)
[03:55] <sivang> hub: Ottawa is better then montreal ?
[03:55] <hub> sivang: just that I got a new job
[03:55] <hub> that's the sole reason
[03:55] <hub> actually I'm in Gatineau/Hull
[03:55] <sivang> hub: oh cool , what do you do btw?
[03:55] <hub> on the other side of the river
[03:56] <hub> I will work for Xandros
[03:57] <\sh> xandros? another debian based distro?
[03:58] <hub> \sh: yep
[03:58] <hub> the "proprietary" one
[03:58] <\sh> hub: hmmm.."go away..don't steal our power" ,)
[03:58] <siretart> nice..
[03:58] <siretart> hub: have fun at xandros! :)
[03:58] <hub> \sh: I'll write software not packages
[03:58] <\sh> hub: this company who sells this stuff...
[03:58] <sivang> hub: congrets!
[03:58] <siretart> I installed it once for my mother
[03:58] <sivang> \sh: are you a DD stephan?
[03:59] <siretart> I don't think its a bad distro. the computer was just too slow ;)
[03:59] <\sh> sivang: no..why should I?
[03:59] <\sh> siretart: hahahaha
[03:59] <siretart> \sh: according to infinity, all motu's should start nm ;)
[03:59] <sivang> \sh: I was just wondering about your pkging knowledge, it seems like you\re one of those old time DDS :)
[03:59] <zakame> ooh
[04:00] <\sh> sivang: to be honest...I don't have any clue about what I'm doing here...
[04:00] <\sh> sivang: but makefiles I'm able to read since I started to work on a MPM machine :)
[04:00] <zakame> hahaha
[04:00] <siretart> another round of mao here? ;)
[04:01] <sivang> siretart: but ofcourse :)
[04:01] <\sh> sivang: really...I just build one or two debian packages in my past for my own software...but that was it
[04:01] <\sh> sivang: the rest is only adaptation of building rpm packages
[04:02] <\sh> sivang: and reading makefiles :)
[04:02] <\sh> sivang: and writing shell based ebuilds for gentoo :)
[04:02] <sivang> hmm
[04:03] <zakame> \sh: could you check my package in revu then, its full of makefiles :D
[04:03] <\sh> no one believes me...I know that :)
[04:03] <sivang> \sh: interesting, so rpm is much like .deb ?
[04:03] <\sh> sivang: no
[04:04] <sivang> so where does the "adaptation" come ?
[04:04] <\sh> sivang: but packaging is always similar...only the tools and ways are differente
[04:04] <sivang> \sh: ah ok
[04:05] <\sh> sivang: dependencies e.g. u need to know the packagenames, or at least how to determine them...then u need a bit of knowledge how the whole linux system is working to build init scripts, or postinst postrm etc. scripts] 
[04:05] <\sh> sivang: do you remember those Cobalt Cubes and Raq machines?
[04:05] <\sh> sivang: this company was bought by sun later
[04:06] <sivang> I think I recall something
[04:06] <\sh> sivang: I was one of the first people who managed to replace the UI of cobalt (webbased, mixture of hardcoded perl html creation scripts and dynamic written html stuff) from the "Blue Theme" to an Orange one for a company in germany
[04:07] <\sh> sivang: I managed to replace all this shit with one package and one final "reset to manufactur defaults" reboot
[04:08] <\sh> sivang: the package was a mixture of a rpm package, put into an tar.gz and added a header to it, cpio it...voila cobalt package ready to install via webconsole
[04:08] <\sh> it took us 2 days to replace 1000 cubes with the new UI
[04:10] <\sh> sivang: the only problem at this time...there was no real documentation about how to package cobalt stuff..
[04:11] <looksaus> at first sight, the following may sound like an inappropriate question to ask here
[04:11] <\sh> and the guys from the german cobalt hq were asking me, how did I manage it
[04:11] <looksaus> I hope you'll see some relevance in it; maybe you could even point me to a better suited place
[04:12] <\sh> looksaus: why don't you ask straight away? :)
[04:12] <looksaus> I'm trying to resize an A4 PostScript document to A3
[04:12] <looksaus> using psresize, part of the psutils from universe
[04:12] <\sh> oh this is more a #ubuntu question
[04:13] <looksaus> these seem to use gs-esp, a gs version that lacks quite a bit
[04:13] <looksaus> ... laGs quite a bit behind gs-gpl and gs-afpl
[04:14] <\sh> looksaus: hmm..please file a bug in malone (http://launchpad.net/malone) if something is wrong with this package
[04:15] <looksaus> \sh, the cropping bug I seem to encounter in gs-esp is old and well known, it seems
[04:16] <minghua> looksaus: debian has gs-esp 8.15 now, so I assume dapper should follow soon (if not already)
[04:16] <looksaus> gs-esp seems to be needed for some printing needs, though
[04:16] <sivang> \sh: still waiting for the end of the story :)
[04:17] <\sh> sivang: that was the end :)
[04:17] <looksaus> minghua, I know, I personally poked Jonas Smedegaard about it (Debian packager)
[04:18] <\sh> sivang: I couldn't give them an answer, because the answer was obvious..."try and error" and "banging my head against a wall"
[04:18] <looksaus> but my question is where the appropriate channel would be to ask about configuring things so that I can use gs-gpl or gs-afpl with these psutils
[04:18] <minghua> looksaus: you mean ubuntu maintainer?  since gs-esp's debian maintainer is Hatta-san and Muto-san
[04:18] <sivang> \sh: ok, then I just need to make myself some more spare time to practice trial and error, it's too weird taht I can hack C/GTK but bumps in packaging :)
[04:19] <zakame> mhatta and dancer :D
[04:19] <minghua> zakame: no, kmuto.  dancer is Uekawa-san
[04:20] <zakame> minghua: errr, yeah, right
[04:21] <minghua> looksaus: uninstall gs-esp and install gs-afpl doesn't work?
[04:21] <looksaus> minghua, have a look at http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/gs-gpl.html, he's a comaintainer
[04:21] <\sh> sivang: well..it's training nothing else I think..same happens to me when I learn a new programing language...if I like it, I learn quite fast
[04:22] <minghua> looksaus: you mean your bug still exists in gs-esp 8.15?
[04:22] <zakame> can someone please check malone 4106 debdiff, thanks :D
[04:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4106: netatalk: merge new debian version Fix req. for: netatalk (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload http://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4106
[04:23] <minghua> gs-gpl and gs-esp are at the same version now anyway
[04:23] <looksaus> nope, actually, my comment was quite irrelevant, sorry, just saying he's a comaintainer and has been doing hard work on gs-gpl in Debian lately
[04:25] <sivang> \sh: I opened some bug on apt-file, I hope that's a real bug and not something I shoul dhave done to make it work
[04:25] <\sh> zakame: looking
[04:26] <zakame> \sh: many thanks :D
[04:30] <\sh> zakame: debdiff failed to apply to the mom version
[04:30] <\sh> zakame: did u use the debian package?
[04:30] <zakame> \sh: err, its 2.0.3-2 -> 2.0.3-2ubuntu1
[04:31] <\sh> zakame: please tell me which package to use..debians or moms :)
[04:31] <zakame> \sh: debian, sorry :)
[04:32] <\sh> zakame: np
[04:33] <\sh> zakame: will test the package just now....I have to wait for openvrml and gtkmathview to compile
[04:33] <zakame> \sh: again, my many thanks :D
[04:35] <\sh> zakame: if you have more packages to upload...please write a mail with the bugnumbers to sh@sourcecode.de I'll deal with it
[04:37] <\sh> zakame: or syncs..everything which is needed to clean the mom list
[04:37] <\sh> ogra_: frohen 1. advent :)
[04:37] <zakame> \sh: will do ;-) actually the ones I have for upload are for sync, overriding ubuntu changes
[04:37] <\sh> zakame: send it to me
[04:37] <\sh> zakame: including the bug numbers :)
[04:38] <minghua> \sh: is telling you on irc okay?
[04:38] <ogra> \sh, thanks, same to you
[04:38] <minghua> \sh: or email is preferred?
[04:38] <slomo> hmm, when i set a package to pending upload it disappears from the merges list
[04:38] <sivang> \sh: was that in germen? :)
[04:38] <sivang> btw - does anyone remmebers how to enable debugging for a perl script?
[04:39] <zakame> slomo: I usually set a sync to PendingUpload... is that ok?
[04:39] <\sh> minghua: email prefered :) but you can query as well...I don't know when I requesting or testing this stuff...depends on the time ... but I'll deal with them all :)
[04:39] <ogra> sivang, adding prints in the appropriate places ?
[04:39] <slomo> zakame: doesn't seem like it's ok... they're dispearing to newhere
[04:39] <slomo> nowhere
[04:39] <minghua> \sh: I'll send emails then
[04:39] <\sh> zakame: well...problem is, that they are disappearing
[04:39] <zakame> sivang: debugging as a perl switch? or the `use warnings` pragma?
[04:39] <sivang> zakame: switch :)
[04:39] <\sh> sivang: yepp
[04:40] <slomo> \sh: why are they disappearing?
[04:40] <\sh> slomo: i can't search for pending uploads right now...
[04:40] <\sh> slomo: lp is b0rked to do special searches
[04:40] <zakame> sivang: according to `perldoc perldebtut`, there's -d and -w
[04:40] <slomo> \sh: *sigh*
[04:41] <\sh> slomo: bug is filed already :)
[04:41] <\sh> compile u bloddy bastard of nc6000 2 pbuilders is nothing :)
[04:41] <\sh> bloody even
[04:45] <minghua> \sh: mail sent :-)
[04:45] <\sh> minghua: k
[04:53] <zakame> \sh: I've sent mine too :)
[04:53] <slomo> ok, bugs reset to New ;)
[04:56] <\sh> slomo: hehe :)
[04:59] <zakame> slomo: woot
[05:00] <\sh> zakame: thx for the list
[05:00] <zakame> \sh: and thanks for your good person ;)
[05:09] <\sh> zakame: netatalk uploaded.
[05:09] <\sh> zakame: syncs requested
[05:09] <\sh> minguha: syncs requested
[05:09] <\sh> please pay attentions to the buildds thx
[05:10] <zakame> \sh: will do :)
[05:11] <\sh> zakame: hardware-monitor is new...please adjust your debdiff
[05:11] <\sh> new version: 1.2.1-3
[05:11] <zakame> \sh: ok no prob :D
[05:11] <\sh> in debian
[05:15] <zakame> hi hub
[05:17] <\sh> zakame: loglib-common uploaded
[05:18] <\sh> aeh logilab-common :)
[05:19] <zakame> ok
[05:19] <slomo> is someone here who uses libnss-ldap?
[05:20] <zakame> keeping two eyes on the buildlog, one for netatalk, another for logilab-common :)
[05:20] <siretart> ogra: are you around and have some time to move http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/buildlogs/ to tiber?
[05:23] <ogra> siretart, i'm around, yes ...
[05:23] <\sh> minghua: syncs requested
[05:23] <minghua> \sh: thanks
[05:23] <siretart> ogra: how we do it? I'll give you a tiber account and you move the scripts?
[05:23] <siretart> ogra: or if you are too busy and installing isn't that complicated, you can also pass me the scripts
[05:24] <hub> slomo: I have used it at one point
[05:24] <ogra> siretart, can you give me a dir with exec cgi ... i'll have to inspect the script to tell if i need something additional, its a while ago
[05:24] <hub> slomo: that is something SuSE does out of the box
[05:24] <siretart> ogra: we have a normal apache setup, you should be able to use any override in .htaccess files
[05:25] <slomo> hub: can you take a look at the ubuntu package? debconf shows one informative message which is rated critical (and seems to break automated installs as you can't disable it)... can i safely set this to high?
[05:25] <ogra> siretart,
[05:25] <ogra> import sys
[05:25] <ogra> import re
[05:25] <ogra> import cgi
[05:25] <ogra> import cgitb; cgitb.enable()
[05:25] <ogra> import css_template
[05:25] <ogra> import urllib, sgmllib
[05:25] <ogra> import zlib
[05:25] <ogra> thats what i need ...
[05:26] <hub> slomo: in dapper?
[05:26] <slomo> hub: or breezy, it's the same currently
[05:26] <ogra> (css_template is local ...)
[05:26] <ogra> siretart, python modules indeed
[05:26] <siretart> ogra: do you happen to know which packages that corresponds?
[05:26] <ogra> i'll look itr up
[05:27] <ogra> but it ran on my woody server first, so it should all be fairly standard
[05:29] <siretart> most propably they are already installed
[05:29] <ogra> yup
[05:29] <siretart> because we need quite some python stuff for revu, too
[05:29] <ogra> i just see there is only a python2.3 backport installed on my old server
[05:29] <ogra> so it should all be included
[05:30] <siretart> ogra: you should get email with your pw soon
[05:30] <ogra> thanks :)
[05:30] <ogra> normal ssh access i assume
[05:30] <siretart> yupp
[05:30] <siretart> standard breezy box
[05:31] <zakame> hmmm is there any reason not to strip hardware-monitor?
[05:31] <zakame> I get a lintian warning about that
[05:31] <slomo> hub: what do you think?
[05:32] <hub> slomo: build or install?
[05:32] <slomo> install
[05:32] <slomo> debconf
[05:33] <botein> hi
[05:34] <zakame> hey bojan
[05:34] <zakame> and botein too :D
[05:34] <siretart> Ah, I see the pw arrived :)
[05:34] <hub> slomo: I don't get any error
[05:34] <slomo> hub: i ask because it breaks automated installs for botein and he want it to be changed ;) and as i know nothing about ldap i think it's better to ask someone else... but imho the importance can be lowered
[05:35] <\sh> wow.ogra on tiber...what a feeling ... tiber is blessed by the uber-MOTU :>)
[05:35] <hub> slomo: btw debian unstable as a more recent version
[05:35] <slomo> hub: no error, but you get a critical informative debconf message where you have to confirm
[05:35] <slomo> hub: i already requested a sync ;)
[05:35] <hub> only configuration information
[05:35] <slomo> hub: yes and one is only informative... that you need to edit some configuration file because it's not handled automatically
[05:36] <hub> ah
[05:36] <hub> I didn't catch that
[05:37] <slomo> hub: but you got this message? "nsswitch.conf is not managed automatically"
[05:37] <hub> yep I get it
[05:38] <slomo> do you think this can be lowered from critical to high?
[05:38] <\sh> haha...blogged
[05:38] <bojan>  zakame: hi
[05:38] <slomo> \sh: ? :)
[05:38] <siretart> grr, options in user dirs not allowed yet, just a sec
[05:39] <\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/archives/142-Ogra-blessed-tiber.html
[05:39] <ogra> siretart, yes, grokked that :)
[05:40] <slomo> hehe
[05:40] <slomo> siretart: you use zsh? are the unicode problems finally fixed? :)
[05:40] <ogra> \sh, lol
[05:40] <\sh> ogra: sorry, couldn't resist
[05:40] <siretart> ogra: overrides should be allowed now
[05:41] <siretart> in your public_html
[05:42] <ogra> oki
[05:42] <siretart> perhaps a ScriptAlias or something like that is still needed, but you should be able to use every override in your public_html
[05:43] <botein> hub: what do you think about libnss-ldap?
[05:43] <ogra> siretart, overrides work... can i have read access to the error log ?
[05:44] <siretart> ogra: sure, here you are
[05:44] <siretart> AllowOverride is not valid in .htaccess, only in apache config
[05:45] <ogra> its years ago that i had to fiddle with apache :)
[05:45] <zakame> \sh: just updated hardware-monitor's debdiff, now diffs from 1.2.1-3 debian
[05:46] <ogra> oh, it wants a cgi-bin ...
[05:47] <\sh> zakame: k...will have a look just now
[05:47] <zakame> \sh: thank you... will be turning to sleepyland now, ;)
[05:47] <zakame> good night all!
[05:47] <siretart> ogra: hm. I tried something, and symlinked your script. now http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/buildlogs.cgi seems to work
[05:48] <siretart> I think you should create a ScriptAlias in your .htaccess
[05:53] <\sh> damn...
[05:53] <\sh> i need to be in the office at 6 o'clock
[05:57] <\sh> so let me do some more merges and transitions :)
[05:59] <armine> Hello
[06:02] <ogra> siretart, its fine as is ...
[06:06] <siretart> ogra: okay. then lets keep the symlink, okay?
[06:06] <ogra> yup
[06:07] <ogra> while i'm at it, i'll add a link at the top of the individual buildlog to jump to the error ...
[06:08] <\sh> kewl
[06:11] <\sh> looks nice this shiny buildlog tool...
[06:12] <\sh> how do i check old buildlogs?
[06:12] <herve> \sh, do you remember why we need a specific gtk-mist-engine?
[06:12] <\sh> no...
[06:12] <\sh> but I synced it just now
[06:12] <\sh> i don
[06:13] <siretart> \sh: If I read the code correctly, you dont
[06:13] <\sh> 't even know what it is...
[06:13] <siretart> \sh: it is 'just' a nice interface to http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html
[06:13] <\sh> ogra: hmmm...can u add such a functionality?
[06:13] <ogra> eek
[06:13] <siretart> but maybe I missed something important
[06:13] <siretart>           http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/LOGS/mom.20051107{b}.log - Grep for
[06:14] <siretart>           Universe for Universe Merges | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge"
[06:14] <siretart> argl
[06:14] <ogra> grmpf
[06:14] <siretart> the topic is outdated anyway
[06:14] <ogra> i hate my jumpy kbd
[06:16] <ogra> hmm, you wiped the intro
[06:16] <siretart> is it really that important? ;)
[06:16] <siretart> okayokay, you win :)
[06:16] <ogra> heh
[06:20] <\sh> elmo: please sync gtkmathview , gtodo-applet , guifications , guppi from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes ok, thx
[06:20] <ogra> \sh, ENOELMO
[06:20] <siretart> \sh: wrong channel ;)
[06:21] <\sh> argl
[06:21] <\sh> lol
[06:21] <siretart> \sh: but would you like to have a look njam? it somehow seems to ftbfs
[06:21] <\sh> siretart: i saw it..will have a look just now
[06:25] <\sh> hmm...looks like i fixed it now
[06:25] <\sh> lets see
[06:31] <siretart> searching some food
[06:34] <\sh> jo..fixed njam
[06:34] <\sh> uploaded
[06:49] <\sh> hmm...the letter "g" on the MoM list just finished
[07:00] <Christian_> hey
[07:03] <bojan> Christian_: hi
[07:03] <Christian_> na bitte geht doch
[07:15] <ogra> so we should have a buildd that runs wine and mingw32 ? ?
[07:15] <\sh> ogra: i wrote something
[07:15] <ogra> this thread is so silly....
[07:15] <\sh> ogra: just send..this guy never tell me again about cluelessness
[07:16] <ogra> be careful .... CoC !
[07:16] <\sh> ogra: I have to think about the future of wine...I should remove it from the repositories
[07:16] <\sh> ogra: i'm not as pissed as he is :)
[07:16] <\sh> ogra: i'm totally clueless :)
[07:16] <ogra> heh
[07:16] <\sh> ogra: because I'm always right (tm)
[07:16] <ogra> be happy he doesnt start to talk about autopackage again
[07:17] <\sh> ogra: read this: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Windows_Build_Prerequisites
[07:17] <\sh> and that http://gemal.dk/mozilla/build.html
[07:17] <ogra> btw, thanks for keeping my gworldclock changes :)
[07:17] <\sh> ogra: well..I read the reports and the diffs sometimes :)
[07:17] <ogra> :)
[07:18] <ogra> yeah, we need a cygwin buildd running on wine, lol
[07:19] <\sh> ogra: building windows binaries is not really the problem.
[07:19] <\sh> ogra: the problem is, mingw is not in main, and I think nobody will maintain it for main
[07:19] <\sh> ogra: so that's for the story wine to main
[07:19] <ogra> building them *inside* the wine package is tricky i think
[07:19] <\sh> ogra: no...u can do it via crosscompiler
[07:20] <\sh> ogra: but building it via crosscompiler e.g. firefox is something really stupid
[07:20] <\sh> 1. no one will support it
[07:20] <ogra> its complete nonsense imho ...
[07:21] <\sh> 2. not even mozilla itself. they're supporting their own builds and/or the official builds via official build toolchain which is MSVC
[07:21] <\sh> you know that they're very strict...and maintaining a third or fourth mozilla package for windows ... no waus
[07:21] <\sh> ways even
[07:22] <ogra> yup
[07:24] <\sh> ogra:  read my post...and tell me that I can take my hat and go somewhere else :)
[07:26] <ogra> \sh, we all know you are clueless, dont worry :P
[07:27] <ogra> 20-50 clueless uploads a day ....
[07:27] <slomo> ...and they even work ;)
[07:28] <\sh> slomo: sometimes
[07:28] <\sh> only sometimes
[07:31] <ogra> what a lucky guy you are ;)
[07:32] <\sh> me?
[07:32] <ogra> sure ....
[07:32] <bojan> you guys are funny :)))
[07:32] <ogra> doing clueless uploads that even *work* ... must be a lot of luck *g*
[07:32] <\sh> hahahaha
[07:35] <\sh> ogra: well...the holy compiler helps me sometimes :)
[07:37] <siretart> ogra: no. the package would 'just' need a build dependency on mingw32
[07:37] <siretart> ogra: no changes to build infrastructure necessary
[07:38] <siretart> in fact, I don't find that idea too bad
[07:38] <ogra> it should rather be in a separate package
[07:38] <siretart> what excatly?
[07:38] <ogra> firefox ?
[07:38] <siretart> err
[07:38] <ogra> activeX controls ?
[07:39] <ogra> whatever they decide to bundle
[07:39] <siretart> I still did only read from \sh that they want to ship firefox bundled with wine
[07:39] <siretart> what I'm still reading is that they want to build some .dll's, which go along the wine distribution
[07:39] <ogra> mike hearn siad thet it might happen in the future
[07:40] <ogra> \sh only reacted on this statement
[07:40] <siretart> overreacted, imo
[07:40] <\sh> ah no
[07:41] <ogra> i dont think so ...
[07:41] <siretart> let him go on, if wine really starts to make braindead stuff, we can strip that off anyways
[07:41] <ogra> being called clueless isnt really firendly
[07:41] <siretart> thats right
[07:41] <\sh> This doesn't seem to prevent us from giving out the
[07:41] <\sh> package with the DLL included, however users wouldn't be able to
[07:41] <\sh> redistribute it.
[07:41] <\sh> the first mail of scott ritchie
[07:41] <siretart> \sh: there are 2 separate points in the thread. please dont mix them
[07:42] <\sh> there is one package of this activeX mozilla stuff which ships officially and alloweded the mfc.dll
[07:42] <siretart> atm, there is NO package
[07:42] <\sh> siretart: that is the beginning...and that's why I said, don't distribute windows userland binaries/libraries
[07:42] <siretart> let him do some work, and lets flame him afterwards
[07:42] <\sh> siretart: actually I don't flame...I want to avoid this before start
[07:43] <siretart> \sh: don't. let him do that
[07:43] <\sh> siretart: you never read me in usenet, when I starting to flame...right now, I'm really calm
[07:43] <siretart> he will see where this will end
[07:44] <\sh> if anyone is seeing sistpoty...please ask him where he got the information that hk-classes has to be transitioned
[07:44] <ajmitch> hi
[07:44] <siretart> \sh: I think I will see him tomorrow in class
[07:44] <\sh> moins ajmitch
[07:44] <slomo> hi ajmitch
[07:44] <ogra> ohh, roundup was orphaned in debian ?
[07:45] <\sh> siretart: please ask him...I think the information is wrong...
[07:45] <slomo> ogra: python-gnome too... what shall we do with it? merge anyway or drop it?
[07:45] <siretart> ogra: obviously
[07:45] <ogra> slomo, i think debian is about to drop all gtk1 stuff in the near future ....
[07:45] <siretart> ogra: we should really discuss package removals from universe at the next motu meeting
[07:46] <ogra> i know some companys running roundup as ticket system ...
[07:46] <\sh> they should use RT
[07:46] <ogra> they are still actively usind it
[07:46] <siretart> because we have quite some stuff which was in debian at some point, but got removed from unstable then
[07:46] <slomo> ogra: hmm, anyway, i'll merge it for now... and some people are actively using gtk1.2 (xmms for example)
[07:46] <ogra> \sh, if they have the ressources to switch, sure ...
[07:46] <siretart> btw
[07:47] <siretart> there was a plan to setup an RT on tiber
[07:47] <\sh> ogra: hmmm...could be another job after I leave ISH ,)
[07:47] <ogra> using a new system involves to set it up and maintain it
[07:47] <siretart> I think ogra wanted it, right?
[07:47] <ogra> slomo, yes, go ahead
[07:47] <ogra> siretart, we had several meetings about it, it wasnt only me ...
[07:48] <\sh> siretart: can u live with a lot of perl stuff on tiber?
[07:48] <ogra> it was about having something more sane for UniverseCandidates ... i dnt insist on RT
[07:48] <ogra> *dont
[07:48] <\sh> hmm...
[07:48] <\sh> we have the support tracker
[07:48] <siretart> aah, for universe candidates. Isee
[07:48] <ogra> any kind of ticket system will do for that...
[07:48] <ogra> doesnt necessarily need to be RT
[07:48] <siretart> \sh: I need to go now. lets talk about perl stuff tomorrow, okay?
[07:49] <sivang> rt uses perl, but is very comprehensive and allows flexiability
[07:49] <siretart> sivang: they are!
[07:49] <\sh> siretart: i play with the support tracker on launchpad
[07:49] <siretart> sivang: flexibility translates in maintenance work :(
[07:49] <siretart> \sh: ok
[07:49] <sivang> siretart: true, but why do you need an issue tracker, or why drop roundup ?
[07:50] <ogra> sivang, because debian dropped it
[07:50] <bmonty> is python-gnome a dead project?
[07:50] <siretart> ogra: not yet, it is 'just' orphaned
[07:50] <ogra> bmonty, thats gtk1 ....
[07:50] <sivang> ogra: does that usually mean that a project is dying ?
[07:50] <ogra> siretart, yes :)
[07:50] <siretart> perhaps a new maintainer finds interest in it
[07:51] <ogra> sivang, that does mean that debian has no maintainer for it
[07:51] <ogra> since debian packages are personalized, it might disappear completely unless someone adopts it
[07:51] <sivang> ogra: ah, so that just means that there is nobody from the DDS that is willing to take care of it
[07:52] <ogra> it has nothing to do with upstream... but if its not in debian anymore it means more work for us to maintain it
[07:52] <siretart> okay folks
[07:52] <\sh> cu siretart
[07:52] <ogra> ciao siretart
[07:52] <siretart> see you tomorrow!
[07:52] <\sh> have a nice evening
[07:52] <siretart> thank. you too!
[07:52] <sivang> night siretart
[07:53] <ogra> bmonty, gtk1 itself will die at some point upstream
[07:53] <bmonty> ogra: I didn't realize that python-gnome was gtk1
[07:54] <ogra> the gtk2 version is python-gnome2 :)
[07:54] <bmonty> ogra: ok, I've been trying to find some documentation on their classes with no luck :(
[07:54] <ogra> which wil get dropped in favor of python-gnome3 at some point in the far future ;)
[07:54] <slomo> gnome-python, python-gnome2 is no more ;)
[07:56] <bmonty> I think I'm going to stick with only pygtk :)
[07:57] <ogra> thats not always possibl ;)
[07:57] <ogra> +e
[07:57] <slomo> bmonty: why?
[07:57] <ogra> i.e. try to write a app that uses fullscreen mode .... you'll need gnome stuff ...
[07:58] <bmonty> slomo: because I can't find documentation on how to use the python gnome bindings mostly
[07:58] <ogra> aehm ...
[07:58] <ogra> just run python in a terminal, type help()
[07:58] <ogra> and then help gnome ;)
[07:59] <ajmitch> it's good being a MOTU, just sit back & watch \sh burn through the merge list ;)
[07:59] <ogra> (drop the second help)
[08:00] <\sh> ajmitch: now I know why debian is sometimes so slow ,)
[08:00] <ajmitch> heh
[08:00] <\sh> ajmitch: i think debian needs a \sh
[08:00] <bmonty> ogra: that helps a little, thanks :)
[08:00] <\sh> ajmitch: but i'm too lazy to go the NM way :)
[08:01] <ajmitch> \sh: that would require handling the politics of NMUs
[08:01] <ogra> stop talking about politics ....
[08:01] <\sh> ajmitch: well..u could be my mentor :)
[08:01] <ajmitch> since you have to notify a maintainer, preferably in advance
[08:01] <ogra> or Diablo-D3 will come back
[08:01] <ogra> lol
[08:01] <\sh> hahaha
[08:02] <sivang> \sh: did infinity answer your question why MOTU need be DDs ? :-)
[08:02] <ogra> sivang, huh ?
[08:02] <sistpoty> hi folks
[08:02] <\sh> sivang: nah...i didn't read anything from him
[08:02] <ajmitch> hey sistpoty
[08:03] <sivang> ogra: \sh asked him about it some hours ago
[08:03] <\sh> ah sistpoty
[08:04] <\sh> sistpoty: hk-classes...why is it on the list of renames?
[08:04] <ajmitch> \sh: btw I grabbed most of 'z' on the merge list, sorry ;)
[08:04] <\sh> sistpoty: it wasn't on the list of doko :)
[08:04] <sistpoty> \sh: mom, I'll take a look
[08:04] <ajmitch> sistpoty: the accepted page is broken! :)
[08:04] <slomo> ajmitch: mr. zope :P
[08:04] <\sh> ajmitch: thx :) I don't want to deal with zope :)
[08:04] <ajmitch> sistpoty: take a look at the bug report for zope, kiko never said he'd merge it
[08:05] <ajmitch> \sh: I thought I'd better look at the packages I said I'd care for :)
[08:06] <sistpoty> ajmitch: he, i found out on thursday/friday, that the mail-parsing script was wrong and didn't look for the bug-title... thus any malone bug for a package on the list would move it to accepted
[08:06] <sistpoty> ajmitch: this should be fixed now
[08:06] <sistpoty> ajmitch: I'll reset zope ;)
[08:07] <ajmitch> thanks, I'll check with doko_ if we're dropping it
[08:07] <ajmitch> zope is v 2.6
[08:08] <sistpoty> ajmitch: should i set you as assignee for zope then?
[08:08] <ajmitch> ok
[08:08] <sistpoty> ajmitch: did you file a merge bug for zope yet?
[08:08] <ajmitch> nope
[08:09] <ajmitch> didn't want to until I harassed you about it ;)
[08:09] <ajmitch> I'll file it now
[08:09] <sistpoty> ajmitch: ok
[08:09] <ajmitch> hm
[08:09] <ajmitch> actually..
[08:09] <ajmitch> no need to worry about it
[08:10] <ajmitch> removed from dapper already
[08:10] <\sh> sistpoty: did u see siretarts unmet dep list?
[08:10] <sistpoty> \sh: no, i didn't
[08:10] <ajmitch> siretart: you used britney to get unmet deps, or some of your own magic?
[08:10] <sistpoty> ajmitch: so zope should be deleted from the list?
[08:11] <ajmitch> sistpoty: please
[08:11] <\sh> http://revu.tauware.de/~siretart/unmet/
[08:11] <\sh> sistpoty: do u think we can create a list of sourcepackages with the unmet-deps on binaries?
[08:11] <ajmitch> cool, I can delete my scripts which did the same thing
[08:12] <sistpoty> \sh: sure thing...
[08:13] <\sh> sistpoty: cool :) but we will use it first after UVF
[08:13] <sistpoty> \sh: but I'll have to think about how this could be handled best... if I happen to meet siretart at uni tomorrow, I'll talk with him bout it
[08:13] <\sh> and I write a spec tomorrow for launchpad to have support tickets created against a team :)
[08:14] <\sh> to get rid of the UniverseCandidates
[08:14] <ajmitch> why support tickets?
[08:16] <\sh> because it's to correct way...if someone wants to have software X in universe, which has to be packaged etc. it's a support request
[08:16] <\sh> not a bug
[08:16] <\sh> s/to correct/the correct/
[08:17] <\sh> hmmm..hdf5 was something with haskell, right?
[08:17] <sivang> \sh++
[08:18] <sistpoty> \sh: no idea... at least I haven't read it on ghc6-transition ;)
[08:18] <\sh> ah no..
[08:18] <\sh> something else..come on u stupid merge :)
[08:18] <\sh> now it's mine
[08:18] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I've grabbed revu2 source from svn to hack on it
[08:19] <sistpoty> ajmitch: cool :)
[08:19] <sistpoty> ajmitch: add yourself to the authors then ;)
[08:20] <ajmitch> once I've done some coding ;)
[08:20] <sistpoty> hehe
[08:20] <sistpoty> btw.: \sh: you should also add yourself to authors for revu ;)
[08:21] <\sh> sistpoty: oh i didn't do enough hacking on it :
[08:21] <\sh> )
[08:21] <ajmitch> sistpoty: all I've done so far is argued about the spec
[08:21] <sistpoty> perhaps this will encourage hacking then ;)
[08:21] <\sh> sistpoty: I'll start to hack hardly on glpbugs after UVF/FF
[08:21] <\sh> means from 19th january on
[08:22] <sistpoty> yeehaa :)
[08:23] <sistpoty> \sh: hk-classes is a rename based on http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-November/013025.html
[08:24] <sistpoty> strange enough, it's no longer on the list doko mailed to announce
[08:24] <sistpoty> maybe this is done already?
[08:25] <\sh> sistpoty: then it's gone magically on this actual list : http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-November/000016.html
[08:25] <\sh> sistpoty: i see that hk-classes was renamed in debian..not according to ubunut
[08:25] <\sh> ubuntu even
[08:25] <sistpoty> hm... strange
[08:27] <\sh> well...no problem at all...I requested a sync
[08:27] <ajmitch> \sh: hah, nice blog post
[08:27] <\sh> it's not even renamed during breezys cxx
[08:27] <ajmitch> yay for ogra worship ;)
[08:28] <sistpoty> f4t w00t :)
[08:34] <ajmitch> hey hub
[08:35] <hub> hey
[08:39] <\sh> ajmitch: lol
[08:39] <\sh> ajmitch: 249 packages for u to go
[08:39] <\sh> ajmitch: rock rock rock
[08:40] <ajmitch> universe will be done before main is ;)
[08:40] <\sh> ajmitch: oh I did also one or two main merges until now
[08:40] <\sh> actually I "merged" python-qt packages before even merge bugs were filed
[08:41] <\sh> clueless...u know :0
[08:41] <ajmitch> oh shutup barry ;)
[08:42] <\sh> hehehehe
[08:42] <ajmitch> ok, pyparsing is good for sync
[08:42] <\sh>  /nick God
[08:43] <ajmitch> decompyle only works with python <= 2.3
[08:43] <ajmitch> so I don't care too much about it
[08:46] <sampo_v2> hello, i'm looking for the people packaging ardour for ubuntu
[08:47] <ajmitch> sampo_v2: it's the debian packaging, more or less
[08:48] <\sh> sampo_v2: yepp...I'm the merger
[08:48] <\sh> sampo_v2: I just got the email
[08:48] <ajmitch> \sh: what did you break?
[08:48] <sivang> and he has no clue....such a shame :)
[08:48] <\sh> ajmitch: nothing...
[08:49] <\sh> ajmitch: actually it needs a give back only :)
[08:49] <ajmitch> sivang: if \sh has no clue I really really worry about the rest of us
[08:49] <\sh> sampo_v2: so what especially is broken in ubuntus ardour package?
[08:49] <sampo_v2> \sh: one concern with the package is that the current binary package is quite old
[08:50] <\sh> sivang: I never said I don't have a clue about rpm packages :)
[08:50] <sivang> \sh: neither did i :)
[08:50] <sampo_v2> \sh: another one is that when i was instructing a user to "apt-get build-dep ardour" and "apt-get -b source ardour", the build failed due to missing dependancies
[08:50] <sivang> .oO(look for the srcasm in my voice)
[08:50] <\sh> sampo_v2:  ardour_0.99-3ubuntu1.dsc
[08:50] <\sh> sampo_v2: this is the version which is right now in dapper..but not build because of missing deps
[08:51] <\sh> sampo_v2: that's why I said it needs only a give-back by the buildd admins...which can happen very soon..
[08:51] <sivang> ajmitch: he has LOTS of clues. he just being modest :)
[08:51] <sivang> anyway,m enough talking
[08:51] <ajmitch> sivang: nah, he's just fishing for compliments ;)
[08:52] <sivang> yeah :)
[08:52] <sivang> I wonder why he does that
[08:52] <\sh> ajmitch: no ways :) every single time dholbach is writing something about me in motu reports..i remove my name
[08:52] <ajmitch> \sh: I've done the same
[08:52] <ajmitch> except yours deserves to be there
[08:52] <sampo_v2> \sh: there are other issues as well, more on the grander level
[08:52] <sampo_v2> \sh: one of the is system library linking
[08:52] <ajmitch> work time, bbiab
[08:53] <\sh> sampo_v2: hmmm...well
[08:53] <sivang> \sh: are you running from the government ? :-)
[08:53] <sampo_v2> \sh: ardour is supposed to be built against the included version of sigc++
[08:53] <sivang> ;)
[08:53] <\sh> sampo_v2: ah...this is something new...why?
[08:55] <sampo_v2> \sh: ardour / sigc++ binary interface is quite fragile to compiler differences
[08:55] <\sh> sampo_v2: actually we got a new sigc++...and I'm starting now a new build of ardour to see which lib the package is using
[08:56] <sampo_v2> \sh: we've seen very strange user reports from debian systems where ardour has been linked against the system libsigc++
[08:56] <\sh> sampo_v2: if you want you can have a look right now on the build log...http://motuhome.homelinux.net/ardour_0.99-3ubuntu1.dsc.buildlog
[08:58] <\sh> oh yes..it uses systems libsigc
[08:58] <sivang> \sh: anywya, what were those u-d threads you were mentioning ?
[08:59] <sampo_v2> \sh: i see nothing from that address
[08:59] <\sh> hmmm..scons determine the installed system lib by itself..means..if I remove the build dep...
[09:00] <\sh> sampo_v2: press reload it's building just now...:)
[09:00] <sampo_v2> \sh: SYSLIBS=0
[09:00] <\sh> http://motuhome.homelinux.net/ardour_0.99-3ubuntu1.dsc.buildlog
[09:00] <\sh> sampo_v2: k..but i have to do more
[09:01] <\sh> hmm..
[09:01] <\sh> debian upstream defined syslibs=yes
[09:01] <sampo_v2> \sh: another problem with audio use on ubuntu is that there are no firmware packages. this means people with soundcards like the RME multiface (like me) can't use their soundcards without hacking
[09:01] <\sh> sampo_v2: well.this is more a legal problem,
[09:01] <sivang> anywa guys, I've had an exhusting sunday at work (= monday blues around the rest of the world) will head off now
[09:01] <\sh> sampo_v2: nothing to do with ardour
[09:02] <sivang> laterz all
[09:02] <sampo_v2> \sh: yes, debian insists on defining syslibs=yes, but it isn't the Right Thing To Do
[09:02] <\sh> sampo_v2: I think the maintainer don't want to deal with issues in the upstream source...
[09:03] <\sh> sampo_v2: so he's using the syslibs...btw...which version of libsigc++ are u using?
[09:03] <sampo_v2> \sh: the RME firmware is distributed with the alsa source packages, so it CAN be distributed. i guess it clashes with debian policy
[09:03] <sampo_v2> \sh: 1.2
[09:05] <\sh> sampo_v2: what about 2.0?
[09:06] <\sh> sampo_v2: and about this firmeware issue...can u please file a bug in bugzilla.ubuntu.com about it?
[09:08] <\sh> sampo_v2: libsigc++-1.2 has libsigc++-1.2.5 build....if this is appropriate..i don't see why to change it
[09:08] <sampo_v2> \sh: using any externally linked sigc++ is not advisable
[09:08] <sivang> I don't believe it, it DOES has docs
[09:09] <\sh> sampo_v2: rational? are u changing something on the sigc++ source...well..I have to understand why I should not use the system lib :)
[09:09] <sivang> (cdbs)
[09:09] <ajmitch> \sh: especially as in debian it's always *highly* recommended to use the debian libs
[09:10] <ajmitch> I've got to hack the build system on 1 of mine to use system libffi/libgc :)
[09:10] <sampo_v2> \sh: we've seen non-duplicatable issues with ardour when people were running it linked agains a system library sigc++
[09:10] <\sh> ajmitch: well...thinking about the user, I don't mind to do a change..if this works...but I want to know "what is different between sigc++ shipped with upstream source and standard 1.2.5 shipped with ubuntu"
[09:10] <ajmitch> sampo_v2: from the point of the distribution, we have to reduce as much of this duplcation as possible
[09:11] <sampo_v2> \sh: different versions of g++ create a bit different binary code
[09:11] <ajmitch> libs are shipped by a distro for this reason :)
[09:11] <ajmitch> sampo_v2: that's fine then
[09:11] <ajmitch> sampo_v2: all our libs & apps are compiled with the same g++
[09:11] <sampo_v2> \sh: ardour users have suffered from non-"deterministic" issues created by linking ardour against system libraries
[09:11] <ajmitch> we do source-only uploads
[09:12] <sampo_v2> ajmitch: there is evidence pointin otherwise
[09:12] <sampo_v2> ajmitch: do you think we have sigc++ in our cvs for fun?
[09:12] <\sh> sampo_v2: please give me a detail view..if there is an issue between libsigc++-1.2.5 and gcc4.0.2 please state
[09:13] <sampo_v2> \sh: no
[09:13] <sampo_v2> \sh: this has been caused by even minor version changes in g++
[09:13] <\sh> sampo_v2: so there must be a difference between the official libsigc++ package and yours...
[09:13] <\sh> sampo_v2: do u think it changes when we compile all the sources with g++-4.0.2?
[09:14] <\sh> sampo_v2: if it's the same source of sigc then it compiles the same
[09:14] <sampo_v2> \sh: the day you switch to g++-4.0.2-1 and compile only sigc++ with it, this issue will trigger
[09:14] <\sh> sampo_v2: so what is different between your shipped version and the 1.2.5 version
[09:15] <\sh> sampo_v2: well...this will never happen :) because if the toolchain is changed we have to recompile the stuff
[09:15] <ajmitch> \sh: I think it's just that they're compiled together
[09:16] <sampo_v2> \sh: even different optimizer flags can cause this bug to trigger
[09:16] <\sh> ajmitch: i don't want to introduce 1. another delta between debian and ubuntu...and 2. I don't want to introduce new .so
[09:16] <\sh> sampo_v2: our buildds are running with the same cflags...only and only if the source package tells otherwise...which happens...but most of the time as result with discussions upstream
[09:16] <sampo_v2> \sh: the only changes to sigc++ is to make scons compile it, and to make to create a statically linked lib instead of a shared lib
[09:17] <\sh> sampo_v2: ok...this is something I wanted to hear :)
[09:17] <\sh> sampo_v2: so I don't have a problem with new dynamic libs
[09:17] <ajmitch> \sh: I agree, I don't like getting changes from debian :)
[09:17] <\sh> ajmitch: what do u think...forgetting that you are dd :)
[09:17] <sampo_v2> \sh: suggested reading: http://plan99.net/autopackage/Linux_Problems#cxx
[09:18] <\sh> ajmitch: if upstream is telling us that is better to compile the self shipped versions...
[09:18] <\sh> ajmitch: thinking about static libs...and no .so
[09:18] <ajmitch> \sh: I've heard similar things from upstreams before ;)
[09:18] <\sh> ajmitch: i could live with it...
[09:18] <\sh> ajmitch: should we test?
[09:18] <ajmitch> I could live with it, but I don't like it
[09:19] <ajmitch> think of things like the zlib security updates
[09:19] <\sh> ajmitch: this is something else..i never said I like it, because it gives me now more work
[09:19] <ajmitch> & archive bloat for package sizes
[09:19] <\sh> sampo_v2: which version is upstream now?
[09:19] <ajmitch> next chance I get I'm going to take an axe to my debian packages & make them work with system libgc/libffi
[09:19] <sampo_v2> \sh: sorry, unknown lingo
[09:20] <\sh> sampo_v2: 0.99.3 is latest debian version ... what is prefered?
[09:21] <sampo_v2> \sh: 0.99 is the newest version of ardour at the moment
[09:21] <\sh> sampo_v2: so we are ok with the version.
[09:21] <sampo_v2> \sh: the time when there was no binary of 0.99 was a few weeks ago
[09:22] <\sh> sampo_v2: I'll to you something now :) which is logged....
[09:22] <sampo_v2> \sh: how about the build dependancies?
[09:22] <\sh> sampo_v2: it needs to be given back to the buildds ..then it builds cleanly...
[09:22] <\sh> sampo_v2: but for a word: after UVF I will create a testing package with your libs compiled in ..
[09:23] <\sh> sampo_v2: so right now, the people using dapper can test the package like it is now...and after UVF I'll send a message for testing new packages with the libs compiled in from upstream source package...ok?
[09:24] <\sh> sampo_v2: another thing..when are you switching to sigc++ 2.0?
[09:24] <sampo_v2> \sh: does UVF really stand for Ulster Volunteer Force? :)
[09:24] <sampo_v2> \sh: we are doing the 2.0 port as we speak, that meanst gtk1 => gtk2, sigc 1.2 => 2.0 etc.
[09:24] <\sh> sampo_v2: Upstream Version Freeze
[09:24] <ajmitch> no, I don't think Kamion is involved :)
[09:25] <sampo_v2> \sh: lol, i thought the ulster volunteer force sounded quite appropriate..
[09:25] <\sh> sampo_v2: do you think it's ready just before the 19th of January?
[09:25] <ajmitch> StevenK: there's no 'quickly' about it :)
[09:25] <\sh> StevenK: that's perl...what do you expect?
[09:25] <ajmitch> sampo_v2: most people probably don't know what the ulster volunteer force is :)
[09:25] <\sh> ajmitch: right...clueless :)
[09:25] <sampo_v2> \sh: good question. in beta probably, but not stable
[09:26] <sampo_v2> ajmitch: neither do i, but everything2.com does!
[09:26] <StevenK> ajmitch: :-)
[09:26] <\sh> sampo_v2: ok...then after 19th January I'll provide some new test packages with your shipped libs compiled
[09:27] <\sh> sampo_v2: and please send bugreporters who have problems with the ubuntu package to launchpad.net/malone and they should file bugs there
[09:27] <\sh> sampo_v2: so we know about those issues
[09:27] <\sh> ajmitch: acceptable?
[09:27] <\sh> ajmitch: i think yes
[09:27] <ajmitch> yeah
[09:28] <sampo_v2> \sh: thank you. the next thing we (ardour devs) need to do is to convince debian to see the light as well
[09:28] <sampo_v2> \sh: so dapper is the "testing" distro?
[09:28] <\sh> sampo_v2: dapper is the next release to come next year in april./
[09:28] <ajmitch> sampo_v2: yes, we're not making changes to the stable distro
[09:29] <\sh> sampo_v2: so dapper is unstable right now
[09:29] <ajmitch> we don't have a 3rd 'testing' branch
[09:29] <sampo_v2> \sh: ok
[09:30] <\sh> sampo_v2: thx for raising this issue and thx for coming along :)
[09:31] <sampo_v2> \sh: no problem. all in a devs works
[09:31] <\sh> sampo_v2: :)
[09:32] <\sh> ok last cigarette...i have to be in the office at 5:00 utc
[09:32] <sampo_v2> \sh: so, just to make sure i understood correctly: after the freeze, you'll throw the 'SYSLIBS=0' package in unstable?
[09:33] <\sh> sampo_v2: no..I'll create a package and let the people download it from a to be announced place...(normally from my website)
[09:33] <\sh> sampo_v2: to be sure that it works better then the actual one in the archives.
[09:34] <\sh> sampo_v2: if there are positive responses that is has less bugs...then I upload this package to our archives
[09:34] <StevenK> print $_->dump foreach ($_->content_list);
[09:34] <StevenK> Hrm.
[09:34] <StevenK> Maybe that's too confusing. :-)
[09:34] <\sh> sampo_v2: this has to be in the timeframe between the 19th january and 23rd of february
[09:35] <\sh> sampo_v2: after 23rd..there is feature freeze
[09:36] <sampo_v2> \sh: ok. about the firmware stuff
[09:36] <sampo_v2> \sh: should i file the bug under "ubuntu" or "ubuntu universe"?
[09:36] <\sh> sampo_v2: please file a bug in buzilla.ubuntu.com
[09:36] <\sh> sampo_v2: main :)
[09:36] <\sh> bugzilla.ubuntu.com even
[09:37] <sampo_v2> \sh: ok, i guess almost any alsa-* package will do
[09:37] <\sh> sampo_v2: choose whatever is suitable
[09:38] <sampo_v2> \sh: ok. i'll be in ouch if we get 2.0 out before Jan 19th
[09:38] <StevenK> Oh crap. The Ubuntu ALSA team will probably punt to Debian's ALSA team, and that includes me.
[09:38] <\sh> sampo_v2: sh@sourcecode.de is my email addr. feel free to mail :)
[09:39] <\sh> sampo_v2: or ping me via jabber when i'm online: my JID: sh@linux-server.org
[09:39] <\sh> sampo_v2: or even on irc most of the time
[09:41] <sampo_v2> \sh: ok. i'll be in touch. thanks
[09:54] <\sh> good night folks
[09:56] <Kyral> whoa...Aptitude being removed?
[09:59] <ogra> really ?
[09:59] <ogra> yay
[09:59] <Kyral> eh?
[09:59] <Kyral> This is a good thing?
[10:00] <ajmitch> Kyral: libstdc++, etc
[10:00] <StevenK> Wheeeeeeeeee!
[10:00] <Kyral> uhh? I just got back from break, mind explaining this one ot me?
[10:00] <ogra> Kyral, if you dont like aptitude its a good thing ;)
[10:00] <StevenK> steven@broken:~% version xcruise
[10:00] <StevenK> $VAR1 = {
[10:00] <StevenK>           'breezy' => '0.30-5ubuntu1:',
[10:00] <StevenK>           'dapper' => '0.30-6ubuntu1:',
[10:00] <StevenK>           'unstable' => '0.30-6:'
[10:00] <StevenK>         };
[10:00] <StevenK> xcruise already merged!
[10:00] <Kyral> ogra I don't
[10:01] <StevenK> There we go, an hour of learning LWP::Simple and HTML::TreeBuilder was worth it.
[10:01] <Kyral> wait a sec, so thats why k3b is going away
[10:01] <ogra> is it ?
[10:01] <Kyral> and all my Boost libs
[10:01] <Kyral> yah
[10:01] <ajmitch> Kyral: running dapper requires reading ubuntu-devel-announce :)
[10:01] <Kyral> ajmitch: I just got back from break
[10:01] <ajmitch> Kyral: in short, it's another c++ transition
[10:01] <Kyral> I have a load to read :P
[10:01] <ajmitch> Kyral: that's great, so why are you blindly dist-upgrading? :)
[10:02] <Kyral> Because I'm bored :P
[10:02] <Kyral> and if something breaks, I'll fix it :D
[10:02] <ogra> never dist-upgrade, just upgrade on development systems...
[10:02] <Kyral> oh
[10:02] <ogra> and cherrypick the held back packages ;)
[10:02] <Kyral> "cherrypick"?
[10:02] <ajmitch> ogra: well, that's what I tend to do unless I'm brave
[10:02] <ajmitch> yes, cherrypick
[10:02] <ajmitch> grab
[10:02] <ogra> pick the ones you think you need
[10:02] <ajmitch> install
[10:03] <ogra> ajmitch, exactly ... dist-upgrade is something to do fridays if you have a whole weekend to fix stuff ;)
[10:04] <Kyral> yah
[10:04] <Kyral> thx for the advice :D
[10:04] <Kyral> CTRL-C'd out of the cycle and changed command to upgrade :D
[10:05] <Kyral> I'll Dist after finals week :P
[10:05] <StevenK> ,
[10:05] <StevenK> Oops.
[10:08] <ajmitch> ogra: by the time we get closer to feature freeze it ought to be safer to dist-upgrade
[10:08] <ogra> yup
[10:09] <Kyral> when is the freeze anyway, or should I just read all the mail
[10:10] <ajmitch> reading about potential libfreetype6 transition in debian
[10:10] <ajmitch> > 500 packages affected
[10:10] <Kyral> ouch
[10:10] <ajmitch> the mail is basically saying that maintainers need to be more careful with library handling
[10:13] <sistpoty> StevenK: did anyone sponsor offlineimap merge for you yet?
[10:14] <ajmitch> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/11/msg00016.html if you're interested :)
[10:18] <\sh> grmpf
[10:18] <\sh> i can't sleep
[10:19] <ajmitch> too many merges still to do?
[10:19] <ajmitch> good to see the number of merges that result in ubuntu changes being dropped
[10:19] <ajmitch> less work for us for dapper+1 :)
[10:19] <\sh> no...not tired somehow..well i test kde3.5
[10:19] <tseng> we are getting smarter
[10:20] <lifeless> ajmitch: morning
[10:20] <lifeless> ajmitch: how do I get bicyclerepair from debian synced ?
[10:20] <tseng> now to take a look at firefox-dev
[10:20] <tseng> lifeless: tell elmo
[10:21] <lifeless> tseng: it needs to keep the prior patch though
[10:21] <lifeless> as debian is still python2.3 :{
[10:21] <tseng> then you need to update the source and upload it
[10:21] <\sh> lifeless: merging
[10:21] <ajmitch> morning lifeless
[10:21] <lifeless> tseng: I can't upload to ubuntu, if I could there would not be a question.
[10:21] <ajmitch> lifeless: you just need to mention it & \sh will jump on it
[10:21] <lifeless> \sh: thanks!
[10:21] <\sh> lifeless: moment
[10:21] <tseng> :D
[10:22] <ajmitch> the rest of us don't have a chance
[10:22] <\sh> lol
[10:22] <lifeless> hmmm
[10:22] <lifeless> also, fl-cow is not in dapper at all
[10:22] <\sh> lifeless: ajmitch just volunteered :)
[10:22] <lifeless> but the current debian build should work fine ;)
[10:22] <ajmitch> when did it get into debian?
[10:22] <ajmitch> elmo might need to process binary NEW in ubuntu
[10:23] <lifeless> ajmitch: a year or so back, but it was FTBFS on the libc ubuntu had at the time
[10:23] <tseng> or it ftbfs
[10:23] <tseng> yes.
[10:23] <lifeless> debian has that same libc now, and I have fixed the package before UBZ
[10:23] <\sh> lifeless: which version?
[10:23] <lifeless> morning ajmitch :)
[10:23] <lifeless> \sh: 0.6-1
[10:23] <\sh> lifeless: bicyclerepair?
[10:24] <lifeless> \sh: 0.9-4
[10:24] <\sh> has to be merged
[10:24] <\sh> is in main
[10:24] <lifeless> adds vim 6.4 support
[10:24] <\sh> moment
[10:25] <ajmitch> ok, will check fl-cow
[10:25] <ogra> \sh !!
[10:25] <\sh> hmmm
[10:25] <ogra> still awake ?
[10:25] <\sh> not on the merge list
[10:25] <\sh> and not in bugzilla
[10:25] <tseng> brandon@y0shi:~/firefox-1.4.99+1.5rc3.dfsg$ find . -name nsServiceManagerUtils.h
[10:25] <tseng> ./xpcom/glue/nsServiceManagerUtils.h
[10:25] <ajmitch>     fl-cow |      0.6-1 | http://10.18.1.1 dapper/universe Packages
[10:25] <ajmitch>     fl-cow |      0.6-1 | http://10.18.1.1 dapper/universe Sources
[10:25] <lifeless> hmm
[10:25] <ajmitch> seems fine
[10:25] <tseng> but .install
[10:26] <tseng> debian/tmp/usr/include/mozilla-firefox usr/include
[10:26] <tseng> it must not be getting copied
[10:26] <tseng> works on gentoo apperantly
[10:26] <\sh> lifeless: well...I could do it tomorrow just because I switched of my other laptop
[10:27] <lifeless> \sh: no rush
[10:27] <\sh> ogra: or can u merge it ;) or ajmitch ...all have main upload rights :)
[10:27] <ajmitch> \sh: ok, if you want :)
[10:27] <lifeless> there should be 0 packaging work involved, other than redo the python2.3->2.4 sed ;)
[10:27] <\sh> ajmitch: i don't want ..
[10:27] <\sh> ajmitch: ... at all
[10:28] <\sh> what's the irc nick of phillip kern?
[10:29] <ajmitch> pkern
[10:29] <ajmitch> \sh: you don't want me to merge? ;)
[10:29] <\sh> ajmitch: merge dude merge :)
[10:29] <ajmitch> hehe
[10:29] <\sh> not online somehow
[10:29] <\sh> he should give me his new gobby package...
[10:29] <\sh> and I make his dreams come true, that his new package is earlier in ubuntu then in debian :)
[10:30] <\sh> hahaha
[10:30] <ogra> GOBBY !!!
[10:31] <ajmitch> I'd be surprised
[10:31] <ogra> damned, i havent prepared the main inclusion report for it yet
[10:31] <ajmitch> ogra: your friend?
[10:31] <tseng> hi ogra :)
[10:31] <ogra> ajmitch, a thing i eagerly want for edubuntu
[10:32] <ogra> it has a dedicated server mode in the latest version ...
[10:32] <lifeless> with extra crashing ?
[10:32] <ogra> :P
[10:32] <ogra> it didnt crash for me at ubz... i dont know what youre all are talking about :)
[10:32] <\sh> hehe..
[10:33] <\sh> he just answered on his blog...he is preparing the last fixes for his sources...he has to ping me
[10:33] <\sh> http://blog.philkern.de/archives/88-C++-ABI-transitions.html
[10:33] <\sh> ogra: no crashes for me at ubz as well
[10:34] <ajmitch> ogra: it didn't silently eat your document when someone's gobby session died?
[10:34] <ogra> nope
[10:35] <\sh> k...brb
[10:35] <\sh> switching
[10:35] <ajmitch> heh, the 'ubuntu plague'
[10:36] <tseng> the only ubuntu plague is carried by sladen
[10:36] <ajmitch> interesting to see how a few DDs think that way
[10:36] <tseng> i cant believe im building firefox
[10:37] <tseng> my poor electic bill
[10:37] <tseng> +r
[10:37] <sistpoty> StevenK: I just uploaded the offlineimap debdiff from you
[10:38] <ajmitch> lifeless: looks like MoM was shutdown before bicyclerepair was uploaded
[10:38] <ajmitch> so it's merge by hand
[10:38] <ajmitch> if \sh_away didn't finish it :)
[10:38] <tseng> ajmitch: MoM is shutdown still?
[10:38] <ajmitch> tseng: I think so
[10:38] <tseng> for good?
[10:39] <ajmitch> nope
[10:39] <tseng> ok :)
[10:39] <ajmitch> it'd be bad if it was
[10:39] <sistpoty> hm... I always merge by hand...
[10:39] <tseng> i knew there was an early stop to merges
[10:39] <ajmitch> since we still have a few weeks of UVF left
[10:39] <tseng> sistpoty: i merge by memory =/
[10:39] <tseng> im the worst
[10:39] <sistpoty> omg ;)
[10:39] <ajmitch> sistpoty: you don't use MoM debdiffs?
[10:39] <sistpoty> ajmitch: no... i use newest unstable source and latest breezy source and check the changelog
[10:39] <tseng> i just reapply my changes and throw it up there
[10:40] <sladen> tseng: thom's fault doth I protest
[10:40] <ajmitch> sistpoty: ok, and the other way is to use ubuntu source, debian source, and common ancestor
[10:41] <ajmitch> sladen: you're unfairly maligned
[10:41] <ajmitch> sistpoty: eg for bicyclerepair I can split out an ubuntu debdiff like MoM does
[10:41] <\sh> wow
[10:42] <tseng> ajmitch is DaD
[10:42] <ajmitch> & I see the only change we made is build depends
[10:42] <ajmitch> :P
[10:43] <\sh> wow..this is really fast
[10:43] <tseng> http://www.abrahamjoffe.com.au/ben/canvascape/
[10:43] <tseng> this is some pretty slick javascript for ff 1.5 users
[10:44] <ajmitch> \sh: what is?
[10:44] <\sh> kde3.5
[10:44] <ajmitch> ah
[10:44] <sladen> tseng: watchout, otherwise it'll magically turn into a new Lauchpad Feature
[10:44] <\sh> much faster then 3.4
[10:44] <ajmitch> almost as fast as gnome ;)
[10:44] <\sh> ajmitch: sorry to say..but gnome is slow
[10:44] <tseng> sladen: feature, bug, or UI insanity?
[10:45] <\sh> ajmitch: check it out...i mean it's not stable right now...but what you see is quite nice
[10:45] <tseng> s/insanity/blooper
[10:45] <ajmitch> I think bicyclerepair could just be synced, rather than merged
[10:45] <\sh> ajmitch: without the python change?
[10:45] <ajmitch> \sh: it was python-dev ->python2.4-dev
[10:45] <\sh> uh..
[10:45] <\sh> yeah
[10:45] <\sh> then rather sync
[10:46] <ajmitch> :)
[10:47] <lifeless> sweet
[10:47] <lifeless> what about fl-cow ?
[10:47] <\sh> ok..now i can go to bed :)
[10:48] <ajmitch> well it looks like it's current in dapper
[10:48] <\sh> good night :)
[10:48] <ajmitch> it just didn't make it for breezy
[10:48] <lifeless> ajmitch: strange, I can't see it in aptitude here ?
[10:48] <lifeless> I have universe enabled
[10:48] <ajmitch> it's there
[10:48] <ajmitch> which mirror are you using?
[10:48] <lifeless> .au
[10:49] <ajmitch> probably points to us
[10:49] <ajmitch> which is probably still broken
[10:49] <lifeless> hmm ?
[10:49] <lifeless> 'us' or .us ?
[10:49] <ogra> us points to a.u.c
[10:49] <ogra> its unbroken ...
[10:49] <tseng> pandora.ucs.uwa.edu.au
[10:50] <tseng> is the final destination
[10:50] <ajmitch> lifeless: packages.ubuntu.com/fl-cow shows it
[10:50] <tseng> us.archive.ubuntu.com is an alias for ubuntu.mirrors.tds.net.
[10:50] <lifeless> ajmitch: well, thats good enough for me.
[10:50] <tseng> Filename: pool/universe/f/fl-cow/fl-cow_0.6-1_i386.deb
[10:50] <ogra> tseng, hmm, last week it pointed to the main archive
[10:50] <lifeless> danke
[10:51] <tseng> ogra: i dunno, i dont use it anymore
[10:52] <tseng> it is broken more than its not
[10:52] <tseng> and when its not it points to archive anyway
[10:52] <ogra> thats why elmo said he had it pointing to a.u.c now
[10:52] <ogra> yeah
[11:50] <bojan_> hi
[11:54] <Kyral> I might have to fix FlowDesigner on my own
[11:56] <ajmitch> Kyral: is that a problem?
[11:56] <Kyral> No....but I was waiting for the Devs to email me
[11:56] <Kyral> I sent the problem upstream
[11:58] <Kyral> add the fact it isn't something I know how to fix off the top of my head :P
[12:01] <Kyral> Ah well, learning experiance :D