[01:05] <mhz> re
[02:17] <mhz> ogra: so, jdub told me he was talking to you about "my case". any news?
[02:19] <ogra> not really.... i was in the TB meeting
[02:19] <ogra> ping him again... 
[02:19] <ogra> he should still be on
[02:19] <mhz> oh
[02:20] <mhz> *sighs8
[02:23] <mhz> paolob: welcome / bienvenido
[02:23] <paolob> mhz: ciao hola hi
[02:23] <mhz> hehehe
[02:24] <mhz> how long have you been using edubuntu?
[02:26] <paolob> Hi guys! I have a problem with dhcp. I have 40 clients. The first time I run edubuntu all is well. However, after a few server reboot, When the clients try to connect to the dhcp server, a messagge "no IP address" appears, and in syslog there is a corresponding "no free leases". It seems like all the dhcp leases are occupied, but really there are not clients connected. What's the hell is this strange thing?
[02:26] <paolob> mhz: I'm at my first edubuntu experience
[02:26] <paolob> mhz: before I installed a 12 clients ltsp system with a debian testing server
[02:27] <mhz> paolob: what dhcpd.conf file are you editing?
[02:27] <mhz> in which /dir, i mean
[02:27] <paolob> mhz: I didn't edit any dhcpd.conf file
[02:27] <mhz> oh
[02:28] <ogra> paolob, see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
[02:28] <mhz> are you sure the settings in dhcpd.conf correspond to the settings you need for your network?
[02:29] <ogra> btw, 40 clients require a HUGE server
[02:29] <mhz> indeed
[02:29] <ogra> 128 MB per lient is the default ...
[02:29] <ogra> plus ~256MB for the server itself
[02:31] <paolob> ogra: till now I have no problem with 2GB ram
[02:31] <ogra> with the default desktop ? 
[02:31] <ogra> gnome and KDE setups always require values along this line ...
[02:32] <ogra> did you ever run all 40 clients at the same time ?
[02:33] <paolob> ogra: well I could get the graphic login for all, and entered 3 or 4 client. I could see that if the same program is used in all the clients, running another instance of it in another client doesn't affect memory usage
[02:33] <ogra> yes, they share memory ... but 40 is a huge amount
[02:34] <ogra> the biggest setups i've seen so far with 2GB were 25 clients ...
[02:34] <paolob> ogra: is there any script to autogenerate user accounts in edubuntu. I mean accounts like n1, n2, n3, etc.?
[02:34] <ogra> where all were running at the same time ...
[02:35] <ogra> nope
[02:35] <ogra> this will be there in the overnext release ...
[02:35] <ogra> next release is mostly polish of breezy
[02:36] <ogra> i.e. thmeable login .. speedup of the bootprocess, bootsplash for the clients, sound support, some additional gui tools...
[02:37] <paolob> ogra: but will edubuntu 6.04 correspond to ubuntu 6.04?
[02:38] <ogra> sure, as edubuntu 5.10 does to ubuntu 5.10
[02:38] <ogra> edubuntu is developed inside ubuntu.... 
[02:39] <paolob> ogra: but the "no free leases" thing.... what could it depend on?
[02:39] <ogra> did you set up the dhcpd.conf as described in the install notes ?
[02:39] <ogra> this file is not generated by default
[02:40] <paolob> ogra: now I remember I configured it as in the install notes
[02:40] <ogra> hmm, with a range that is big enough ? 
[02:42] <paolob> the range is ok, because the first edubuntu run is ok, and so the 2nd, 3rd, etc. But there comes a moment in which appears the "no free leases" in the dhcp log
[02:43] <paolob> it seems that dhcp allocates the leases but it doesnt de-allocate...
[02:43] <ogra> try setting the value for max-lease-time lower in /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf
[02:43] <ogra> its set to 7200 by default
[02:44] <ogra> try setting it to 700 or 1000 and do a sudo /etc/init.d/dhcp3-server restart afterwards
[02:45] <paolob>  /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf or /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf ?
[02:45] <ogra> the main config in /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf for this
[02:46] <ogra> if it doesnt work try the ltsp config, but the main one should work
[02:47] <paolob> The edubuntu install notes speak of configuring the second
[02:47] <ogra> yes, i know
[02:47] <mhz> indeed
[02:47] <ogra> (i wrote them ;) )
[02:47] <paolob> ogra: felicitaciones!
[02:47] <mhz> paolob: but your lease issue could be slved by editing the first
[02:47] <mhz> hehehe
[02:48] <paolob> mhz: could or must?
[02:48] <ogra> mhz, i'm not sure it get read at all ...
[02:48] <ogra> so if the first doesnt work, try the second
[02:48] <ogra> mhz, not much beyond hola and gracias 
[02:48] <mhz> hehehehe
[02:48] <mhz> ogra: and ubuntuero?
[02:48] <paolob> ok, entonces no podemos hablar espaol
[02:49] <mhz> paolob: lamentablemente
[02:49] <ogra> mhz, thats a designed word... surely i understand it ;)
[02:49] <mhz> aunque pronto podriamos en #edubuntu-es
[02:49] <ogra> mhz, for registering channels contact Seveas ...
[02:49] <paolob> mhz: but there such few active people here... imagine it in a spanish channel!
[02:50] <ogra> but he is in .nl ... its 3am in europe :)
[02:50] <Seveas> but still awake :)
[02:50] <ogra> hehe
[02:50] <mhz> ogra: okis, and what time is Seveas around (to ping him and not waking hime)
[02:50] <mhz> Seveas: hey
[02:50] <Seveas> anyone can register channels, no approval is needed
[02:50] <mhz> Seveas: i'd like to proceed with #edubuntu-es
[02:50] <mhz> Seveas: sure, but it is best if we follow some 'conduct' here :)
[02:51] <mhz> paolob: I know. the isuee, at least in Chile, is that some teachers have complained about all stuff in english
[02:51] <mhz> and therefore they say "they dont participate much"
[02:52] <Seveas> mhz, by all means, proceed the way you see fit. No channel registration is 'official' and in fact: the Ubuntu channel group does not even cover #edubuntu* channels :) 
[02:52] <paolob> but, in the end, that of the "no free leases" is a bug or what is it?
[02:52] <mhz> Seveas: oooh
[02:52] <mhz> Seveas: good to know
[02:52] <mhz> paolob: let's see once you edit any of those files :)
[02:53] <ogra> paolob, rather a misconfiguration... i have to inspect it if i'm more awake ... havent seen it yet
[02:53] <Seveas> mhz, but this was a good reminder to sort this out with lilo asap ;)
[02:53] <paolob> I generated the edubuntu-es channel!
[02:53] <ogra> heh
[02:53] <paolob> I think a /join #edubuntu-es is all is needed
[02:54] <mhz> Seveas: please. I think that, specially now, that we are getting more activity (Marketing team, doc team, evanelisation teams, loco teams, etc.)
[02:54] <paolob> mhz: ogra: well, I'll do it tomorrow
[02:54] <mhz> Seveas: it is not bad if there are some minimum guidelines
[02:54] <Seveas> mhz, working on those :)
[02:54] <ogra> paolob, if its registered, the channel will be owned by the resistrant, so if you have a troll in there, the channel master can kick him
[02:55] <ogra> *registrant
[02:55] <paolob> ogra: ah, ok
[02:55] <mhz> Seveas: I have finally gotten reply from ubuntu.cl guys but they say they will answer me fully during the week (i made like 7 questions) and that so far, no plans for evangelisation, only the forum.
[02:55] <Seveas> ogra, in such occurences they can also ask me to let the freenode guarddogs loose on the subversive elements ;)
[02:55] <ogra> Seveas, cool, good to know ...
[02:56] <ogra> i'm in the admin list for #ubuntu buthave not even the slightest clue how to kick someone :)
[02:56] <mhz> as long as we dont bite our own tails :D
[02:56] <Seveas> ogra, ;)
[02:57] <mhz> ogra: right click on a user
[02:57] <ogra> mhz, first i have to get op status ;)
[02:57] <mhz> Seveas: so, I'll wait for you to register or shall i ?
[02:58] <mhz> oh
[02:58] <Seveas> ogra, /msg chanserv op #ubuntu
[02:58] <mhz> and then /kick the_user
[02:59] <ogra> hmm, doesnt work here ...
[02:59] <Seveas> it seems that #edubuntu-es has already been registered by someone
[02:59] <mhz> .oO(there should be a /slap the_user too) :D
[02:59] <mhz> really?
[02:59] <mhz> Seveas: see?
[02:59] <Seveas> -ChanServ-      Contact: P3L|C4N0, last seen: 4 weeks 1 day (23h 38m 23s) ago
[02:59] <Seveas> do you know this person?
[03:00] <ogra> pelicano ?
[03:00] <Seveas> If not, I'll contact lilo to make you channel contact
[03:00] <ogra> he's sometimes around here
[03:00] <Seveas> ah ok
[03:00] <ogra> but very seldom
[03:00] <Seveas> then i'd suggest that you try and settle it yourself
[03:00] <mhz> my only concern is that newcomers tend to think this is "official" and if op has no 'conduct'.. problems will arrive.
[03:01] <mhz> Seveas: I have seen him around a couple of times but can't remember when
[03:01] <paolob> guys, one of the 40 clients downloads the vmlinuz and the other file (initrd.img?) very slowly. What could it be due to?
[03:01] <mhz> or where
[03:01] <Seveas> I've seen him in #ubuntu a few times
[03:01] <ogra> paolob, thats a drawback of breezy ... will be improved in dapper...
[03:01] <mhz> dapper will rock :)
[03:01] <paolob> while all clients download vmlinuz in 3 seconds, one client lasts about 30 seconds.
[03:02] <paolob> ogra: explain me
[03:02] <paolob> the reduced speed is not due to overload on the server
[03:02] <ogra> hmm
[03:02] <Seveas> network contention?
[03:02] <ogra> that rather sounds like a network issue
[03:02] <Seveas> Flipping bits in the switches?
[03:02] <Seveas> Solat flares?
[03:02] <mhz> Seveas: can we wait for him (say 2 days to show up) and if not, could you talk to lilo? Our Chilean plans for EdubuntuChileanTour should start in no longer than 2 weeks
[03:02] <Seveas> Phase of the moon?
[03:02] <ogra> gramlins
[03:03] <ogra> *gremlins
[03:03] <ogra> is it always the same client ? 
[03:03] <paolob> a nic issue (but the connection is at 100 Mb/s)? a cable issue?
[03:03] <paolob> ogra: yes
[03:03] <mhz> nic
[03:04] <ogra> then it sounds like NIC or cable
[03:04] <mhz> paolob: did you swithc cables?
[03:04] <paolob> mhz: even if the 100 Mb led is on?
[03:04] <ogra> yup
[03:04] <paolob> mhz: I'm going to try
[03:04] <ogra> try chaning the cable from another NIC
[03:04] <paolob> ogra: ok
[03:04] <mhz> I had same issue once. then it was cable
[03:05] <ogra> if its not it, use a NIC from another client ...
[03:05] <ogra> if that solves it, it was the NIC ...
[03:05] <Seveas> mhz, I'll contact lilo on friday
[03:05] <Seveas> just ping me then to remind me ;)
[03:05] <paolob> Another issue is that a client always get an error while booting the ltsp kernel, and stops booting. Could it be a ram problem or what?
[03:05] <mhz> .oO(we should have a machine that we use to ping cables, so we can know what segment of the cable is nor working properly) :D
[03:06] <mhz> paolob: always same client?
[03:06] <paolob> mhz: yes
[03:06] <mhz> paolob: do they boot on a set order?
[03:06] <mhz> or randomly?
[03:06] <mhz> Seveas: ok, thx
[03:06] <paolob> they boot all together
[03:06] <paolob> but the error occurs even if it boots alone
[03:06] <mhz> oh
[03:07] <ogra> sounds like a HW issue 
[03:07] <mhz> paolob: 1st time i hear that
[03:07] <ogra> if all other work fine ..
[03:07] <mhz> "the curse of a client"
[03:07] <paolob> mhz: I saw it various times in installing thes 40 clients
[03:08] <paolob> Guys, when all is ok I could prepare a testimony of my install
[03:08] <ogra> cool
[03:08] <mhz> paolob: please do!
[03:08] <ogra> that'd very appreciated
[03:08] <mhz> paolob: you really got me
[03:08] <ogra> +be
[03:08] <mhz> paolob: I had heard strange things but that
[03:09] <paolob> where should I put or send it?
[03:09] <mhz> wiki it please
[03:09] <paolob> in ubuntu wiki?
[03:09] <mhz> the wiki is perfect for that
[03:09] <ogra> are you subscribed to edubuntu-devel ?
[03:09] <paolob> no
[03:09] <ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
[03:09] <mhz> paolob: when you create an account in LaunchPad, you'll login to any ubuntu wiki
[03:09] <ogra> but wiki is ok too ...
[03:10] <mhz> all ubuntu wikis share same /data dir
[03:12] <mhz> ogra: nothing to do but... do you know of any desktop independant addressbook that imports/exports from/to .vcf ?
[03:12] <mhz> and let's you share data on network
[03:12] <ogra> only evolution
[03:12] <mhz> (ldap, maybe)
[03:12] <ogra> ldap might wokr too
[03:12] <mhz> evolution does that indeed
[03:13] <mhz> but aint that gnome libs dependant?
[03:13] <ogra> yup...
[03:13] <mhz> hmm.
[03:13] <ogra> thunderbird should do it too
[03:13] <mhz> thunderbird looks good
[03:13] <paolob> Well, good night to all of you!
[03:13] <mhz> paolob: sleep well
[03:13] <ogra> night as well 
[03:13] <mhz> paolob: maybe 2morrow that client will work
[03:13] <paolob> Buenas noches a todos, que sueen con los angelitos!
[03:14] <mhz> ogra: ok, go to bed, please
[03:14] <mhz> .oO(ogra needs to be rested to produce good work/ideas
[03:14] <mhz> ogra: BTW, meeting tomorrow?
[03:14] <ogra> heh
[03:15] <ogra> sure
[03:15] <mhz> i didnt see it in topic
[03:16] <ogra> its in the topic of #ubuntu-meeting 
[03:16] <ogra> abd on the fridge
[03:16] <ogra> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event
[03:16] <ogra> *snd
[03:16] <ogra> grrt
[03:16] <spacey> 30 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu
[03:16] <ogra> *and
[03:16] <spacey> hmm
[03:16] <spacey> thats 13 CET?
[03:17] <ogra> yup
[03:17] <spacey> i can do that
[03:17] <ogra> spacey, sorry, didnt upload the content filter stuff yet
[03:17] <spacey> ogra, take your time
[03:17] <spacey> i'm quite busy
[03:17] <ogra> the TB meeting took nearly 3h (unplanned)
[03:17] <spacey> thats quite long
[03:18] <ogra> yup
[03:18] <spacey> some difficult points?
[03:18] <ogra> hide admin tools
[03:18] <ogra> and two big opinions
[03:18] <spacey> i remember that spec from ubz
[03:18] <ogra> one party that wanted to solve it by patching sudo ...
[03:19] <ogra> and one (the one i am in) that wants to solve GUI tasks in the GUI... not in an admin tool
[03:19] <spacey> yeah latter one sounds much better
[03:19] <spacey> patching sudo bleh
[03:19] <ogra> yup
[03:20] <ogra> it already was done ... pitti reverted it after the meeting
[03:20] <spacey> not even sure how that would work out, but it must be dirty
[03:20] <spacey> :P
[03:20] <ogra> not really, but its evil on server installs ...
[03:20] <spacey> ah
[03:20] <ogra> and we wont ship two sudos
[03:21] <mhz> ogra: please do not hide it from sudo
[03:21] <ogra> being able to test the users rights with sudo -t without being logged is not nice
[03:21] <mhz> ubuntu is know for usinf sudo
[03:21] <mhz> using
[03:21] <spacey> ah
[03:21] <ogra> mhz, the thing is that users who are no admins see all admin tools ... we want to avoind that for dapper
[03:22] <mhz> hmmmmmmmmmm
[03:22] <spacey> wasn't it something like that switch was already in upstream?
[03:22] <spacey> *digs his memory*
[03:22] <mhz> ogra: they can be warned
[03:22] <ogra> so students only have apps in their menu in edubuntu ;)
[03:22] <ogra> but no admin tools
[03:22] <mhz> ogra: GUI hidding is fine, very fine
[03:22] <ogra> yup
[03:22] <mhz> but not from command line I meant
[03:22] <ogra> gnome-menu shall handle it ... 
[03:23] <mhz> i thought you meant from command line
[03:23] <spacey> ogra, different from now?
[03:23] <ogra> i think xfce uses gnome-menu too
[03:23] <spacey> since its already in breezy but not used
[03:23] <ogra> spacey, sure ... currently a non privileged user sees sll admin tools
[03:23] <spacey> ogra, yeah but if you add thingy to .desktop file it dissapears
[03:23] <ogra> and gksudo just dies silently if he has no rights
[03:23] <ogra> not yet
[03:24] <spacey> it does
[03:24] <ogra> the patch is missing ...
[03:24] <ogra> really ? 
[03:24] <spacey> i'm pretty sure the patch was in
[03:24] <spacey> seb even showed me
[03:24] <spacey> its just not used
[03:24] <ogra> ut the patch for checking the admin group isnt
[03:24] <spacey> because none of the desktop files include that line
[03:24] <ogra> they will
[03:24] <mhz> oh
[03:24] <ogra> but you also need to check the users rights ...
[03:25] <ogra> that part was missing ...
[03:25] <mhz> .oO(another reason why /me is so happy with simpler desktops) :)
[03:25] <spacey> i think the thing was that it checks on group now but that its not universal enough
[03:25] <ogra> and pitti wanted to solve it through calling sudo -t <desktop file> for every entry
[03:25] <spacey> but its late now, so might recall badly
[03:25] <spacey> ogra, yeah
[03:26] <mhz> ogra: wouldn't that pitti solution be too expensive?
[03:26] <ogra> which produces a mail to root for every .deskop file on every login ...
[03:26] <spacey> ogra, hehe, small detail :)
[03:26] <ogra> *g*
[03:27] <spacey> and thats why sudo had to be patched?
[03:27] <spacey> i assume
[03:27] <ogra> nope.... that already was the patch :p
[03:27] <spacey> oh
[03:27] <ogra> he reverted the behavior
[03:27] <ogra> now -t doesnt exist anymore
[03:27] <spacey> k:)
[03:28] <ogra> and the check for the admin group will be used ...
[03:28] <ogra> which breaks on systems that were upgraded from warty
[03:28] <spacey> which doesn't really matter :P
[03:28] <ogra> i.e. it doesnt hide the entrys
[03:28] <ogra> yup
[03:29] <spacey> since warty doesn't have an admin group
[03:29] <spacey> iirc
[03:29] <ogra> exactly
[03:29] <ogra> and it doesnt get added on upgrades
[03:29] <ogra> but thatmeans it simply wont change for these users :)
[03:30] <ogra> but no new breakage is introduced ... so its way safer
[03:30] <spacey> yup
[03:31] <mhz> ogra: we'd need a 'teacher' group in 6.04 so teachers can handle users -> menus based on the subject his teaching
[03:31] <ogra> nope ... we'll have configurable menu profiles in 6.10 .... :)
[03:31] <spacey> oh btw you don't need to hurry with that willow stuff, i'll install and try it out end of this week and see (willow itself), because our customer caught little kids surfing for porn. so i see how it works. and then next week look into your stuff. 
[03:32] <spacey> sabayon?:)
[03:32] <mhz> ogra: cooler
[03:32] <ogra> spacey, yes, i wanted tobase i on sabayon ... but that might not even be necessary
[03:32] <ogra> *it
[03:32] <spacey> but sabayon might be nice anyway
[03:32] <spacey> quite nice actually
[03:33] <ogra> i'm in contact with the menu editor author ... i'm poking him since a while to add profile support
[03:33] <spacey> nice
[03:33] <ogra> so we might get it cheaper :)
[03:33] <spacey> yeah that would be nice
[03:33] <mhz> oops, so admins will have more work on school needs
[03:33] <ogra> i'm still not sure if the xnest issue is solvable
[03:34] <ogra> mhz, nope, less work
[03:34] <spacey> ogra, we can ask sabayon mailinglist
[03:34] <ogra> you have a menu predefined for every class you have ...
[03:34] <mhz> ogra: nope, more work taking care of each teacher needs for students in lab
[03:34] <spacey> i can ask if you want, subscribed anyway
[03:34] <ogra> spacey, i guess so ... but its a technical issue
[03:35] <ogra> spacey, yes, do it :) 
[03:35] <spacey> i think the sabayon list is quite technical?:)
[03:35] <mhz> ogra: admins today are not touching menus based on profiles :)
[03:35] <ogra> but i think its a limitation of ssh forwarding we cant work around
[03:35] <spacey> ogra, ah could be
[03:35] <spacey> anyway i'll throw it at them later this week.
[03:36] <ogra> mhz, they'll have a little gui that says "math", biology", "english" ...
[03:36] <spacey> first get my thin client working :o)
[03:36] <ogra> mhz, based on your work ;)
[03:36] <mhz> ogra: yup, I mean they will have one more task. today they dont care about profiles :)
[03:36] <ogra> mhz, they only need to select the class 
[03:36] <mhz> ogra: cool
[03:37] <ogra> then we could also bind it to the teacher that is logged in ... ;)
[03:37] <ogra> so they dont need to select
[03:37] <mhz> ogra: my concern there, is at least in Chile, I'll only have 2 weeks to evangelise teachers
[03:37] <mhz> ogra: good
[03:37] <ogra> i'm planning some good gui tools for dapper+1 
[03:37] <spacey> ogra, hmm that would limit it heavily on classroom use i think
[03:38] <spacey> for example we use edubuntu school wide (secretly ;)).
[03:38] <mhz> ogra: so I hope I can motivate enough teachers to help on the curriculum crossing thing
[03:38] <ogra> we'll have 3 months development time then and the base system should be fine enough that there gets no time drawn in ...
[03:38] <mhz> ogra: today I usually use update-menu command. Will that interfere with your menu setting plans?
[03:39] <ogra> spacey, its still just a slight idea of mine that needs to get worked out right ...
[03:39] <spacey> k :)
[03:39] <ogra> we can design it on schooll level ;)
[03:39] <spacey> just pointing out :)
[03:39] <spacey> don't want to make it too complex
[03:39] <mhz> ehhhehe
[03:39] <mhz> already is
[03:39] <mhz> :)
[03:39] <spacey> not too much
[03:40] <ogra> mhz, our menu system will be based on .desktop file selections ... i think update-menus is working with them too
[03:40] <spacey> mhz, whats complex? :P
[03:40] <ogra> so it should work in any environment followint the freedesktop specs
[03:41] <mhz> spacey: I am no coder, so I was thinking from teacher/admin POV. Each country has differences on curriculum
[03:41] <mhz> each curriculum, diff menus
[03:41] <ogra> spacey, my idea is only a frontend solution ... if the backend is a ldap server or a simple textfile wont matter then ;)
[03:41] <ogra> so you can use it in a classroom as well as in a school
[03:42] <ogra> lets see ... its still far future :)
[03:42] <ogra> GF calls ... i have to go to bed ;)
[03:42] <ogra> nearly 4am again :)
[03:42] <ogra> night all
[03:43] <mhz> nite
[03:44] <mhz> spacey: you work in a school?
[03:46] <spacey> mhz, no
[03:46] <mhz> ok
[03:46] <spacey> but
[03:47] <spacey> i have my own business with a friend of mine. and one of our customers is a primary school, were we take care of the IT stuff
[03:47] <spacey> and we are migrating them from windows to edubuntu
[03:47] <spacey> a bit complex because its a mixed enviroment
[03:48] <mhz> ooops
[03:48] <mhz> mixed env. are always a pain in the back
[03:48] <spacey> but we worked it out pretty well, users have the same data if they log in on windows or with edubuntu thin client
[03:48] <mhz> smart
[03:48] <spacey> but migrating the profiles from w2k ADS to Samba is a bit tricky
[03:49] <spacey> to say the least :)
[03:49] <mhz> hehehe
[03:49] <mhz> what is w2k ADS?
[03:49] <spacey> active directory service
[03:49] <spacey> its nasty
[03:49] <mhz> sounds like it
[03:50] <spacey> its ldap with nasty stuff on top
[03:50] <mhz> passwords?
[03:50] <spacey> and if you touch anything it breaks ;o
[03:50] <mhz> hehehLOL
[03:50] <spacey> and then your screwed
[03:50] <mhz> hehehLOL
[03:50] <mhz> hehehLOL
[03:50] <mhz> it does remind me why I run away from M$
[03:51] <spacey> good for you :)
[03:51] <spacey> and we are helping people to run away
[03:51] <spacey> at least thats our goal :)
[03:51] <spacey> we just started
[03:51] <mhz> i had M$ in my 1st pc (1 year of problems only, then I got an iBook (lovely) and then only linux on it
[03:52] <spacey> nice
[03:52] <mhz> spacey: may the patience be with you and your friend. M$ is hard to kill
[03:52] <spacey> ^_^
[03:52] <spacey> ubuntu is to our aid :D
[03:52] <mhz> BTW, have you seen this distro called "Kill Bill"?
[03:52] <spacey> lol no
[03:52] <mhz> it's pretty cool!
[03:53] <mhz> knopix based
[03:53] <spacey> i don't like knoppix :P
[03:53] <mhz> and of course... it is inspired in both Kill bill gatez and the movie
[03:53] <mhz> i like Debian from scratch or Ubuntu
[03:54] <spacey> i like ubuntu :)
[03:54] <mhz> however, i use ubuntu with wmaker or fluxbox
[03:55] <mhz> i'd love to have install cd's with desktop independancies
[03:55] <mhz> 'server' is too little
[03:55] <mhz> and 'enter' is too mcuh
[03:55] <mhz> much
[03:55] <mhz> :)
[03:56] <mhz> spacey: anyways, the good thing about Kill Bill is that it is already set to run .EXE programs even from LiveCD !!
[03:58] <spacey> hmm
[03:58] <spacey> anyway
[03:59] <spacey> i'm going to sleep
[03:59] <spacey> its already 4:00 at night here
[03:59] <spacey> and have to be up for the meeting:P
[03:59] <mhz> sure
[03:59] <mhz> c ya in a couple of hours
[03:59] <spacey> goodnight
[03:59] <mhz> nite
[03:59] <spacey> goodmorning for you
[03:59] <spacey> i guess
[03:59] <spacey> ;)
[03:59] <mhz> heheh
[03:59] <mhz> 23:50\
[04:00] <spacey> oh only that little differance
[04:00] <mhz> yup
[04:00] <spacey> so meeting is really early for you
[04:00] <mhz> indeed
[04:00] <spacey> good luck for you
[04:00] <spacey> :)
[04:00] <mhz> sleep well
[04:00] <spacey> and goodnight
[08:07] <JaneW> ogra: does edubuntu want to join schoolforge?
[08:13] <ajmitch__> hi JaneW 
[08:17] <JaneW> hi ajmitch__ 
[08:43] <jsgotangco> hey JaneW
[08:43] <jsgotangco> got a minute?
[08:46] <JaneW> jsgotangco: hi, sure
[11:14] <spacey> morning
[11:15] <spacey> JaneW, that local support suppose to be community or also commercial? :o
[11:16] <spacey> ok title says it
[11:17] <spacey> anyway i'll guess i'll add myself. 
[11:25] <spacey> don't think getting a cd is a problem for dutch people
[11:25] <spacey> enough broadband here
[11:26] <spacey> don't think you can find a school without adsl
[11:28] <jsgotangco> brb
[11:28] <spacey> JaneW, is there an agenda for the meeting?
[11:30] <jsgotangco> the pages are locked?
[11:31] <JaneW> I am editting
[11:33] <jsgotangco> ok
[11:33] <jsgotangco> i'll catch up on meeting then
[11:33] <jsgotangco> still need to buy more stuff and pack
[11:47] <spacey> JaneW, ;( agenda?
[11:47] <JaneW> same as every week
[11:47] <JaneW> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
[11:48] <JaneW> -> lunch
[11:58] <spacey> *bookmark*
[12:40] <JaneW> **Reminder** +- 20 Minutes to Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[12:55] <JaneW> **Reminder** +- 5 Minutes to Edubuntu Update Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:02] <highvoltage> why did ogra quit 8 mins before the meeting?
[01:03] <mhz> hi
[01:05] <highvoltage> hi mhz 
[01:06] <mhz> hi highvoltage 
[02:13] <highvoltage> Yagisan: when was your son born?
[02:13] <mhz> kjcole: indeed.
[02:13] <mhz> highvoltage: kjcole: I have been more busy with EdubuntuChileanTour (we're missing simple stuff to kick off)
[02:14] <mhz> however, as soon as I can finish/start that, i'll be on edubuntu docing
[02:14] <kjcole> Ta-ta all
[02:15] <mhz> bye
[02:16] <mhz> highvoltage: i apologyze if i'm too fan of moin. It's just that I know it is possible to do much stuff (tweaking, yes i agree it's time consuming) I have not done with other CMS's
[02:17] <mhz> highvoltage: ogra: you work on artwork, right?
[02:17] <jsgotangco> mhz: moin is good but we can't use it for everything really
[02:17] <Yagisan> highvoltage: Sorry was putting the kids to bed. My son was born on the 18th of november
[02:17] <jsgotangco> No. 1 it can't play games
[02:17] <jsgotangco> :P
[02:18] <mhz> jsgotangco: i know, not now. but we could with some tweaks and joint deveopment with Moin gang
[02:18] <jsgotangco> mhz: i'd love to do that
[02:18] <Yagisan> highvoltage: didn't know about the lysp group - checking it out now
[02:18] <mhz> Moin development gang are very open to improvements
[02:19] <Yagisan> s/lysp/ltsp
[02:19] <ogra> mhz, i do the packaging
[02:19] <highvoltage> mhz: no need to apologize. moin is a good system. we'll probably end up using it two years from now anyway.
[02:19] <highvoltage> mhz: ogra did it all for 5.10, we need more artwork
[02:20] <mhz> highvoltage: hehe. I will try Drupal and comit to use it hard, on daily basis.
[02:20] <mhz> highvoltage: I have started little by little
[02:20] <ogra> we'll have a hired person as i heard who will make professional artwork for ed/k/ubuntu
[02:20] <mhz> highvoltage: I am currently working on a wallpaper and GDM theme (got some questions on the latter)
[02:20] <ogra> mark wants to hire omeone in london ...
[02:20] <jsgotangco> do we have people committing to certain dapper edubuntu tartgetrs?
[02:21] <ogra> who works fulltime in the office to be available
[02:21] <mhz> jsgotangco: hehe, i even used Moin for CRM (bug tracking, Addressbook, Calendar, Todo, etc)
[02:21] <highvoltage> ogra: we must still have a artwork community, who should maintain a user-committed base
[02:21] <highvoltage> (if that makes any sense)
[02:21] <jsgotangco> mhz: you scare me dude
[02:21] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:21] <ogra> but since we want to have 3 choices for the artwork, this covers only one set
[02:21] <highvoltage> mhz: https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-artwork and http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuArtwork
[02:21] <jsgotangco> mhz: although for the CD-Orchard, we will be using Moin
[02:21] <ogra> i havent heard back if this person will do more than one set for us
[02:22] <mhz> ogra: oh, good to know that. Then I'd focus on chilean edubuntu needs?
[02:22] <mhz> jsgotangco: hehehe, Moin invasion
[02:22] <ogra> mhz, if you like :)
[02:22] <highvoltage> ogra: what do you mean, will the profesional person probably only cover one of the three artwork options?
[02:23] <ogra> mhz, you could also do more general artwork for inclusion in the package ... since we wont change the app selection much, we should have some spare space this time
[02:23] <mhz> highvoltage: ogra: how soon could we know about whihc option he'll cover? I got a meeting with Pablo's team this week
[02:23] <ogra> highvoltage, this person might only make one artwork  set for every ubuntu flavour
[02:23] <highvoltage> mhz: i don't know. ogra's on the inside, i think we can rely on him for feedback.
[02:23] <mhz> yup, i roger that
[02:23] <ogra> i asked for clearification, but didnt hear back yet
[02:24] <Yagisan> highvoltage: OK - I clicked join team for ltspubuntu - we'll see what happens next
[02:24] <mhz> hehehe
[02:24] <ogra> Yagisan, note that this team is driven by ltsp.org guys ...
[02:24] <mhz> highvoltage: i have joined the 2 teams (doc and web). Any docs already?
[02:24] <Yagisan> ogra: I need to dist-upgrade my clients to dapper for bootchart ?
[02:24] <ogra> i dont even know who's the owner
[02:24] <ogra> Yagisan, i think so, yes
[02:25] <highvoltage> mhz: there's the edubuntu cookbook, it's currently on the moin site
[02:25] <mhz> highvoltage: ohhh, that!
[02:25] <highvoltage> but it's far from complete at this stage
[02:25] <highvoltage> ogra: owner of?
[02:25] <ogra> the ltsp team
[02:25] <Yagisan> ogra: two members are you ubuntu guys - you, and IIRC higvoltage
[02:25] <highvoltage> mhz: and we'll have some new guides soon that will need some work.
[02:25] <ogra> Yagisan, yes... 
[02:26] <ogra> i thought it would make sense if i'm in there :p
[02:26] <highvoltage> ogra: one of the guys from ltsp.org, afaik. i think you said you met him in canada?
[02:26] <mhz> highvoltage: ok. is that via ML ?
[02:26] <ogra> highvoltage, yes, but i dont know which of them created this group...
[02:26] <mhz> hehehehe
[02:26] <ogra> it suddenly appeared and i'm bad at names
[02:26] <mhz> we need photos!
[02:26] <highvoltage> mhz: is what via ML?
[02:26] <mhz> highvoltage: edubuntu doc?
[02:27] <highvoltage> hackergotchis!
[02:27] <mhz> highvoltage: edubuntu doc is via bzr, ML or Moin?
[02:27] <highvoltage> mhz: afaik it's only on Moin.
[02:27] <mhz> highvoltage: indeed, I didn;t have time to make one so I ploaded my photo
[02:27] <highvoltage> that will probably be moved to drupal too, we'll have to see which works best.
[02:27] <mhz> highvoltage: okis, so i'll make sure they are categorized and then subscribe myelf
[02:28] <highvoltage> excellent.
[02:28] <mhz> highvoltage: have you tried Trac? (me doesn't remember)
[02:28] <jsgotangco> Trac is awesome
[02:28] <Yagisan> so I thought it would be a good idea to join the team
[02:29] <mhz> highvoltage: ogra: my current wallpaper test and theme (first time I do this stuff) are having problems (silly ones, I guess). Could you help me?
[02:29] <mhz> Yagisan: any news on in-laws?
[02:29] <highvoltage> mhz: fire away!
[02:30] <mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuChileArtwork
[02:30] <mhz> wallpaper/ many schools have 800x600 monitors
[02:30] <mhz> wp/ so, I did it via SVG (inkscape) and then exported to PNG and from GIMP to JPG :D
[02:31] <highvoltage> ubuntu stretches the wallpaper, no matter what the size is, doesn't it?
[02:31] <Yagisan> mhz: No, I haven't spoken to them since I found out my mother-in-law has cancer. I'm still trying to make 1000 paper cranes for her
[02:31] <mhz> wp/ end up looking kind of ugly
[02:31] <jsgotangco> why not just use SVG that way it won't pixelate
[02:31] <jsgotangco> just do some fancy coloring stuff with vectors
[02:31] <mhz> Yagisan: again, i can only hope she'll win
[02:31] <jsgotangco> even the logo can be vectored easily
[02:32] <Yagisan> mhz: me too.
[02:32] <mhz> jsgotangco: no idea.  I'm just following what others have done
[02:32] <highvoltage> cheers edubuntero's!
[02:32] <Yagisan> bye highvoltage 
[02:32] <pirast> cheers
[02:32] <mhz> jsgotangco: I'd love SVG wallpapers and GDM themes only
[02:33] <mhz> hehehehhe
[02:34] <mhz> Yagisan: did you see the Debian - Ubuntu wallpaper I found ?
[02:34] <Yagisan> it's *never* worked in ubuntu
[02:34] <Yagisan> mhz: no
[02:34] <mhz> like ?
[02:35] <Yagisan> mhz: where is it ?
[02:35] <pirast> edubuntu will be used everywhere when the next version is released :-) The school where I am tutored only has problems with the Win 2003 server.. It's really funny, sry for ot :-)
[02:35] <jsgotangco> really?
[02:35] <mhz> pirast: educool!
[02:35] <jsgotangco> *but not great*
[02:35] <jsgotangco> heheh
[02:36] <jsgotangco> bleah
[02:36] <jsgotangco> i was a windows sysad for 5 years :P
[02:36] <mhz> jsgotangco: that's why !
[02:36] <Yagisan> mhz: It's a good idea to keep an eye on the competition
[02:36] <jsgotangco> i'm not going to say something against a product that fed me and my family :P
[02:36] <pirast> :-) 80% of the clients take 15 minutes to log in..
[02:36] <mhz> Yagisan: competition will still fail if they do not understand QoS
[02:37] <mhz> pirast: could you wiki your experience as a case of study (how edubuntu could help you)
[02:37] <jsgotangco> pirast: that looks like a network and a directory issue
[02:37] <Yagisan> mhz: yeah, but that competition has an ad on TV every 30 minutes for that family of products. We don't
[02:38] <pirast> yes,  it is.. but the teacher changes the settings always..
[02:38] <pirast> lol
[02:38] <mhz> Yagisan: indeed. We will (if we need it)
[02:38] <jsgotangco> tv ads?
[02:38] <jsgotangco> wow
[02:38] <mhz> Yagisan: re TV about Linux... the reporter promised me to provide a .MPG file of the TV note they made on Linux and Ubuntu
[02:40] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: yep - MS is running an ad campaign that basically says software only works on Windows, and if you want your kids to succeed, they need Windows
[02:40] <ogra> mhz, our required defaultsize for wallpapers is 1600x1200 ... it gets automatically scaled to the desktop size then...
[02:41] <pirast> mhz: Do you mean that I should create an entry how the school where I study would like to use Edubuntu?
[02:41] <Yagisan> ogra: you *could* save memory by not using a wallpaper
[02:42] <ogra> sure
[02:42] <mhz> ogra: ohhhh
[02:42] <ogra> we'll probably do that for the higher grade classes
[02:42] <jsgotangco> Yagisan: Intel does that a lot lately....
[02:42] <mhz> pirast: yup. Current case v/s how edubuntu would be better
[02:42] <ogra> but the child vrsion should be as coulorful as possible :)
[02:42] <pirast> mhz: ok, i will try ;-)
[02:43] <mhz> pirast: thx very much
[02:43] <pirast> mhz, np
[02:43] <mhz> Yagisan: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/ScrapBook/DebianUbuntuWallpaper
[02:44] <ogra> mhz, looking for controversial discussions with debian *G* ?
[02:45] <mhz> hehehehe
[02:45] <pirast> ogra: do you block priv messages? :-)
[02:45] <mhz> pirast: nope, he doesnt. but you gotta be registered
[02:45] <pirast> oh...
[02:45] <pirast> okay lol :-)
[02:46] <ogra> pirast, as mhz said
[02:46] <ogra> hmm
[02:46] <Yagisan> mhz: that won't make some debian devs happy
[02:46] <mhz> why not?
[02:46] <pirast> re
[02:46] <mhz> Debian is the root. Ubuntu is a son
[02:47] <jsgotangco> and Edubuntu is the...bastard?
[02:47] <ogra> mhz, some see that different
[02:47] <Yagisan> mhz: they seem somewhat thin skinned on debian-devel. That swirl IIRC is actually trademarked
[02:47] <mhz> pirast: by registered = in irc.freenode i meant
[02:47] <pirast> i know ;-)
[02:47] <pirast> i am now
[02:47] <mhz> ok
[02:47] <Yagisan> mhz: and they need to protect their trademarks, or they lose them
[02:47] <mhz> Yagisan: oh
[02:48] <ogra> mhz, we're already chatting in our secret corner :=)
[02:48] <mhz> and if it included the word debian?
[02:48] <mhz> hehehe
[02:49] <Yagisan> mhz: IIRC if it is used in a descriptive sense it is fine, but if used to misrepresent it as official Debian art, no. Debian is also a trademark
[02:49] <ogra> free for noncommercial use though
[02:50] <mhz> Yagisan: lol
[02:50] <mhz> the -doc list?
[02:50] <ogra> mhz, some DDs see ubuntu as stealing from debian ...
[02:50] <mhz> indeed
[02:50] <mhz> we take all the credit they say
[02:50] <ogra> so you'll have to cope with them ;)
[02:51] <mhz> ogra: i must say I understand them
[02:51] <Yagisan> mhz: was the -doc list directed at me ?
[02:51] <mhz> we should be 'Dubuntu'
[02:51] <mhz> :)
[02:51] <mhz> Yagisan: yup
[02:51] <mhz> Yagisan: that too.
[02:52] <jsgotangco> ian murdoch for example...
[02:52] <Yagisan> mhz: no, IP Australia - I was looking up possible trademarks and logos for my business
[02:52] <mhz> ogra: any problems with EdubuntuChile logo?
[02:53] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: he left debian to make his own fork - it looks like pot - kettle - black to me
[02:53] <ogra> mhz, nope, why should i
[02:53] <mhz> Yagisan: oh. In Chile, president candidates are for intelectual property and patents 
[02:54] <mhz> ogra: just asking, as we are aplanning to make it clear, we are from Chile and we speak chilean :)
[02:54] <mhz> Yagisan: lol
[02:54] <mhz> Yagisan: user linux?
[02:55] <Yagisan> mhz: progeny ? IIRC
[02:55] <jsgotangco> progeny
[02:56] <jsgotangco> user linux is by bruce perens
[02:57] <mhz> yup, miscinfused
[02:58] <Yagisan> Anyone here actually use gmailfs ?
[03:02] <Yagisan> mhz: I plain to layer encfs on it, and use it for offsite backups. Its 2669MB per account
[03:02] <mhz> hmmmmmmmmm
[03:03] <Yagisan> mhz: I figure I can keep sending gmail invites to myself when I need another 2669MB :)
[03:03] <mhz> hehehehe
[03:04] <mhz> gmail invasion
[03:05] <mhz> Yagisan: is it true gmail keeps a DB of your emails?
[03:05] <mhz> (i mean, I guess they do because they cross the content with ad)
[03:05] <mhz> will they use a kind of DB for gmailfs?
[03:06] <Yagisan> mhz: I don't know. They have a box scan the email for keywords, but if like me you encrypt most email, you just get ads for pgp
[03:06] <Yagisan> mhz: gmailfs by itself is unencrypted - they treat it like a normal email
[03:07] <Yagisan> mhz - thats why I will put encfs on top, to encrypt the files
[03:09] <mhz> ok
[03:10] <ogra> Yagisan, note that bootchart is a java app
[03:12] <Yagisan> ogra: does it work with gcj ?
[03:12] <ogra> yup
[03:13] <ogra> the initramfs part are only some cripts... the java part is for making the actual chart from it post boot
[03:13] <ogra> but you'll notice the difference... you have to wait a while until its finished, before the login prompt appears
[03:13] <Yagisan> ogra: all I need to do is dist-upgrade and then install bootchart ?
[03:14] <ogra> should work, yes
[03:14] <ogra> if it doesnt, dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-`uname -r` that works fo sure
[03:16] <ogra> file a bug ;)
[03:17] <Yagisan> ogra: I ah, just "backported" that from sid. I adjust the deps and see if it "just works"
[03:17] <ogra> err
[03:17] <ogra> it wont
[03:17] <ogra> debian doesnt use initramfs afaik
[03:17] <ogra> who is maintainer of it in debian ? 
[03:18] <Yagisan> ogra: Sebastian Delafond
[03:18] <ogra> then you are playing roulette :)
[03:18] <ogra> good luck
[03:19] <pirast> mhz: http://gamesplace.info/ubuntu/currentcase-win-dbg.png
[03:19] <pirast> mhz: i know that im not good at art
[03:19] <Yagisan> ogra: heh - I had to get current fuse from dapper, and gmailfs, and python-libgmail from sid
[03:20] <ogra> oh, you talk about fuse 
[03:20] <ogra> i thought bootchart
[03:20] <mhz_house> pirast: I liked the 'concept' very much
[03:20] <Yagisan> ogra: python-fuse was 2.2 in dapper, so I grabbed 2.4 from sid
[03:20] <pirast> yes id like it in edubuntu too...
[03:21] <ogra> pirast, http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiring
[03:22] <ogra> we'll use fuse extensively for ltspfs
[03:22] <ogra> (local device support)
[03:23] <pirast> ogra: i know that they are similar, but the real important thing is that the user data is stored centrally and every student has an own account... I think edubuntu breezy doesn't do it..
[03:24] <ogra> sure it does
[03:24] <pirast> it does?
[03:24] <Yagisan> ogra: cool. IIRC kernel 2.6.15 has fuse in mainline now
[03:24] <pirast> grat :-)
[03:24] <ogra> thats the main concept :)
[03:24] <pirast> ok, i have not enough hardware at home to try it :-)
[03:24] <ogra> Yagisan, yup and dapper has 2.6.15
[03:25] <pirast> i wanted to but i missed one ethernet card, it is at my friends house who uses ubuntu too :-)
[03:25] <ogra> as well as ltspfs and ltspfsd
[03:25] <ogra> pirast, i'll have my thin client with me in essen on saturday 
[03:25] <pirast> ok, nice
[03:25] <ogra> and juliux has a server for us to present it ...
[03:25] <pirast> :-)
[03:25] <DaSkreech> Quick Question :)
[03:26] <ogra> shoot
[03:26] <pirast> it will be really funny on saturday and sunday, i am really glad that i live in essen :-)
[03:26] <ogra> i'll only be there on sat.
[03:26] <DaSkreech> Can I have one login go into a Edubuntu "profile" and another into Ubuntu?
[03:26] <pirast> ok..
[03:26] <pirast> i couldnt believe my eyes when i saw that there are linuxdays :-)
[03:26] <ogra> DaSkreech, nope ...
[03:27] <pirast> ogra: Furthermore it would be great to have an user import function.. In our windows case the teacher copied all the user data from an excel table into the windows add user dialog.. That was funny
[03:27] <ogra> DaSkreech, the edu apps will show up in the ubuntu menu
[03:27] <DaSkreech> So either the entire computer is Edubuntu or it's Ubuntu?
[03:27] <ogra> yup
[03:27] <ogra> you'd have to edit the users settings 
[03:27] <DaSkreech> ogra: So I could in theory hand tune a login to edubuntu?
[03:27] <ogra> you could try sabayon to create profiles though
[03:27] <DaSkreech> Hmm
[03:27] <pirast> ogra: an import tool that imports the data from an odt / an excel table would be great..
[03:27] <ogra> the other way around ....
[03:27] <pirast> lol cunfusing 
[03:28] <ogra> install edubuntu-desktop and tune t down to ubuntu ...
[03:28] <ogra> edubuntu sits on top of ubuntu ...
[03:28] <ogra> so disabling parts will get you back to a ubuntu setup
[03:28] <ogra> try sabayon, it should work for you
[03:28] <DaSkreech> I have a friend who's setting up a computer for his family
[03:29] <DaSkreech> He's ubuntuized 
[03:29] <DaSkreech> Or at least is in the process
[03:29] <ogra> great :)
[03:29] <DaSkreech> He has a young friend who comes over often enough that he gets his own login on the computer
[03:29] <DaSkreech> I just thought it would be great if he could get a Edubuntu desktop when he logged in
[03:30] <ogra> thats fine ...
[03:30] <ogra> you'll have to reset the GDM theme and the bootsplash... these are systemwide ... but the rest should be manageable very easily by sabayon
[03:31] <juliux> re
[03:31] <juliux> someone pinged me who?
[03:31] <DaSkreech> Well the GDM theme and bootsplash can stay since the majority of users are actually Ubuntu and at least one would be offended by being put onto a "childs" computer
[03:32] <Yagisan> ouch - someone has thin skin
[03:33] <ogra> juliux, i just said you have a demo server in essen ...
[03:33] <juliux> ogra, ah ok
[03:33] <ogra> juliux, pirast will be there ...
[03:33] <juliux> ogra, nice
[03:34] <juliux> ogra, we also have now a screen for the projector
[03:35] <ogra> good
[03:36] <Yagisan> ogra: assuming my backports are successful, who do I ask to sync them from debian, so they still work in dapper ?
[03:37] <ogra> if they are in universe, ask in #ubuntu-motu
[03:37] <ogra> for main ask me :)
[03:38] <Yagisan> ogra: ok. If it works, I'll hassle some poor motu for a sync
[03:39] <ogra> fine
[03:39] <ogra> might be on the sync list anyway 
[03:39] <ogra> there are still ~200 packages to merge/sync for motu
[03:39] <Yagisan> ogra: really ? some of those packages haven't been updated since warty
[03:40] <ogra> fuse might not have been in focus :)
[03:41] <Yagisan> ogra: well, obviously nobody tried it. Maybe they need gmail accounts to give them motivation
[03:41] <ogra> heh, i really doubt that :)
[03:42] <crimsun> hmm...fuse?
[03:42] <crimsun> is something broken in fuse?
[03:42] <ogra> yup
[03:42] <DaSkreech> Put a filter on them and send them to me :)
[03:42] <ogra> ask Yagisan he's just playing with it
[03:42] <ogra> DaSkreech, it stopped at some point ...
[03:42] <Yagisan> crimsun: for a looong time now - gmailfs hasn't worked
[03:42] <ogra> but Yagisan it the gmail advertiser here :)
[03:42] <crimsun> even in dapper?
[03:43] <Yagisan> crimsun: yes, even in dapper
[03:43] <crimsun> well I need to upload fuse 2.4.2 first#
[03:43] <Yagisan> crimsun: I'm backporting parts from dapper and sid
[03:43] <ogra> Yagisan, where are the bugs you filed about that ? :P
[03:43] <Yagisan> ogra: others filed bugs in malone
[03:44] <crimsun> I found exactly one about gmailfs in malone
[03:44] <ogra> crimsun, oh, yould you ping me if you do that ? i need to transition ltspfs then
[03:44] <Yagisan> crimsun: fuse is ok in dapper as far as I can tell, you need gmailfs, python-fuse, python-libgmail from sid
[03:44] <Yagisan> crimsun: and forum complaints
[03:45] <ogra> Yagisan, we only count bugs :)
[03:45] <ogra> Yagisan, make the forum people file them
[03:46] <Yagisan> ogra: It should be fixed by a simple sync. Ubuntu's versions are simply too old
[03:48] <ogra> if ubuntus versions have a -XubuntuX in the verson strimg they might be merges ...
[03:48] <ogra> which require manual work
[03:48] <crimsun> please don't request a sync until I finish merging fuse-utils 2.4.2, as it fixes a security issue
[03:49] <Yagisan> crimsun: well, after I give a test -  I'll let you know if a) it worked, and b) if I think you should sync it.
[04:02] <Yagisan> brb
[04:09] <Yagisan>  /dev/fuse             2.7G     0  2.7G   0% /home/jamie/mount/gmailfs
[04:22] <JaneW> today's meeting notes added - please add or correct as required http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
[04:23] <ogra> will do
[04:28] <jsgotangco> wow the new vmware can actually run ubuntu
[04:28] <jsgotangco> (it explicitly supports ubuntu now)
[04:29] <ogra> and edubuntu :P
[04:29] <jsgotangco> yeah i just tried it on a windows machine
[04:29] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: the old one also ran it fine
[04:29] <jsgotangco> yeah but seeing Ubuntu along with official support is a different story
[04:38] <mhz_house> JaneW: I like this:
[04:38] <mhz_house>     *
[04:38] <mhz_house>       Technical
[04:38] <mhz_house>           o
[04:38] <mhz_house>             Progress over past week
[04:38] <mhz_house>           o
[04:38] <mhz_house>             Issues/ Blocks
[04:38] <mhz_house>           o
[04:38] <mhz_house>             Planned Activities for coming week
[04:38] <mhz_house>     *
[04:38] <mhz_house>       Documentation
[04:38] <mhz_house>           o
[04:38] <mhz_house>             Progress over past week
[04:38] <mhz_house>           o
[04:38] <mhz_house>             Issues/ Blocks
[04:38] <mhz_house>           o
[04:38] <mhz_house>             Planned Activities for coming week
[04:39] <mhz_house>     *
[04:39] <mhz_house>       Art Work
[04:39] <mhz_house>           o
[04:39] <mhz_house>             Progress over past week
[04:39] <ogra> mhz_house, stop spamming .... use a pastebin service please
[04:39] <mhz_house>           o
[04:39] <mhz_house>             Issues/ Blocks
[04:39] <mhz_house>           o
[04:39] <mhz_house>             Planned Activities for coming week
[04:39] <mhz_house>     *
[04:39] <mhz_house>       Management and or Community - any further issues that need to be discussed. These may be tabled in advance as required.
[04:39] <mhz_house> but i feel we dont cover
[04:39] <mhz_house> it
[04:39] <mhz_house> oops, I aplogize for the pasting
[04:39] <jsgotangco> spammer!
[04:39] <mhz_house> I did not mean to spam it, I was actually pasting it for an email :(
[04:39] <jsgotangco> next time use paste.ubuntulinux.nl
[04:40] <mhz_house> JaneW: not at all.
[04:40] <JaneW> heh
[04:40] <mhz_house> jsgotangco: sure.
[04:40] <jsgotangco> if mdz was here he would have given you the smackdown heh
[04:40] <mhz_house> jose__: hola
[04:40] <ogra> grmpf
[04:40] <mhz_house> jsgotangco: hehehe
[04:41] <mhz_house> as i said, I was writing an email
[04:41] <mhz_house> and pasted wrongly
[04:41] <mhz_house> 10 inches laptop means smaller keyboard
[04:41] <jsgotangco> bleahhh
[04:41] <ogra> hah
[04:41] <ogra> sorry for the noise
[04:42] <mhz_house> hehehe
[04:46] <ogra> mp1, hey mpt
[04:46] <mhz_house> ok,
[04:46] <mhz_house> mail sent to edubuntu-devel
[04:48] <mhz> Yagisan: have you slept anything? or you changed TZ?
[04:50] <Yagisan> mhz: To be honest, after my government meeting today, I slept from 3pm to 7pm
[04:50] <mhz> wow!
[04:50] <mhz> how did it go?
[04:50] <Yagisan> mhz: but my son isn't helping with sleeping
[04:50] <mhz> ehehehe
[04:51] <mhz> Yagisan: i'm glad to see your prescence here, anyways :)
[04:51] <Yagisan> mhz: 1 perhaps 2 potential clients, and about 15 possible contacts
[04:51] <mhz> Yagisan: well, that sounds good
[04:52] <Yagisan> mhz: A confirmed client would have been better
[04:52] <mhz> hehehehe, indeed.
[04:52] <mhz> Yagisan: the good thing is that they saw you.
[04:52] <mhz> Now in 2 days time, you'll re-contact them
[04:53] <Yagisan> argh, gmailfs + encfs don't like each other!! .oO(Yagisan's head may explode)
[04:54] <Yagisan> mhz: yep, and basically say "buy something" :)
[04:55] <mhz> sec. issues are harder to sell
[04:57] <Yagisan> mhz: yep, especially to uneducated hicks^W clients that think it is normal for systems to always be infected with viruses and malware
[04:59] <mhz> hm
[04:59] <Yagisan> Catch you later mhz
[05:03] <Yagisan> woo hoo, got encfs + gmailfs loving going on :)
[05:03] <mhz> pitux: hola, revisa EdubuntuStudyPackages 
[05:04] <mhz> pitux: me voy a almorzar y BRB
[05:05] <Yagisan> now to script up a nice backup system
[05:06] <Yagisan> night all
[05:45] <Bob332> i just installed on my dell p3 machine, when i boot to edubuntu after the loading screen i get a cursor on the top left corner that just hangs
[05:45] <ogra> after login ? 
[05:46] <ogra> or before ? 
[05:46] <Bob332> before login
[05:46] <Bob332> ogra, thanks
[05:47] <ogra> do you already see the login screen ? 
[05:47] <ogra> (the graphical one)
[05:47] <Bob332> nope, its right before the login screen
[05:48] <ogra> hmm ... strange ...
[05:48] <Bob332> i see the initial splash screen where it loads devices, mounts fs, etc...then it changes to a black screen with a curseor
[05:48] <Bob332> im in recovery mode now, dont see anything in X11 folder about my default resolution
[05:48] <ogra> thats edubuntu 5.10 ?
[05:49] <ogra> or the current daily development version ? 
[05:49] <Bob332> 5.10
[05:49] <Bob332> just downloaded and burned
[05:50] <DaSkreech> No ubotu?
[05:50] <ogra> nope, what for ?
[05:50] <ogra> there are enough humans here ... no need for a bot :)
[05:51] <ogra> Bob332, can you try booting with one of: pci=noacpi, nolapic, noacpi, acpi=off or a combination of them ? 
[05:51] <Bob332> ok, i just tried bumping down my resolution to 8 by 6, the 1024 may be to high
[05:52] <Bob332> i have had wierd issues on debian system before and this fixed it
[05:52] <ogra> (just hit escape on boot and add this to the kernel line in grub, (hit e to edit))
[05:52] <ogra> we use a very different Xorg than debian ...
[05:52] <ogra> so it might or might not be it :)
[05:53] <Bob332> ok, my idea didnt work, the system goes through its whole boot process, all the way to starting portmapper and then changes screens to this black screen with a cursor at the top left
[05:54] <Bob332> what is acpi?
[05:54] <ogra> what kind of graphics card is that ? 
[05:54] <mhz> pitux: ping
[05:54] <ogra> acpi is power management ... its broken on 30% or more of the hardware out there
[05:55] <Bob332> in not sure, an older one though
[05:55] <ogra> the older the HW the more likely its broken
[05:55] <Bob332> so where do i add that option?
[05:55] <Bob332> i am in grub now
[05:55] <Bob332> e to edit the command line?
[05:55] <ogra> after hittin escape you get a menu ...
[05:55] <ogra> go to the default line and hit e
[05:55] <Bob332> right, with all my OS'es
[05:56] <Bob332> ok, there
[05:56] <ogra> then go to the kernel line and hit e again ... 
[05:56] <Bob332> there
[05:56] <ogra> add pci=noacpi after splash .... 
[05:56] <ogra> separated with a space 
[05:56] <ogra> then hit enter and b for boot
[05:57] <Bob332> ok  thanks, lunch, brb
[05:57] <ogra> repeaet this with the above options for several boots ... or even combine these options ...
[05:57] <ogra> i'd got through them one by one  first... if it doesnt work start combining
[06:23] <Lord_Athur> hi
[06:23] <Lord_Athur> mhz, 
[06:23] <mhz> Lord_Athur: hi man
[06:24] <Lord_Athur> are you in the edubuntu-es channel?
[06:24] <Lord_Athur> for login in it
[06:27] <mhz> Lord_Athur: ya
[06:39] <mhz> ogra: any ideas how to 'find' P3licano or something like that?
[06:39] <ogra> P3L|C4N0, ping
[06:39] <ogra> P3L|C4N0, ^^^^
[06:39] <mhz> wow! he was here!
[06:39] <ogra> mhz, he's here
[06:39] <mhz> duh!
[06:39] <mhz> sorry
[06:39] <mhz> i am bit slow today 
[06:42] <mhz> ogra: he's logging in from http://200.106.97.20/
[06:42] <mhz> Ilo-Peru
[06:44] <mhz> P3L|C4N0: hola
[06:44] <mhz> P3L|C4N0: necesito que conversemos, por favor
[07:10] <Bob332> orga, i dont think that worked with the acpi param
[07:11] <ogra> did you also try the nolapic option ? 
[07:11] <ogra> (thats the built in irq mapper, also a prob on older HW) 
[07:13] <Bob332> ogra, you mean in the bios?
[07:14] <ogra> nope
[07:14] <Bob332> i will have to try that, i just tried again with all of the params in the kernel line
[07:14] <ogra> it was one f the options i asked you to test
[07:14] <ogra> adding all might be a bit much :)
[07:14] <Bob332> no luck on adding all
[07:15] <Bob332> ok, i just added noacpi to the end after splash, testing now
[07:16] <Bob332> whats the splash do anyway?
[07:16] <ogra> thats the option that en/disables the bootsplash
[07:17] <Bob332> cool
[07:17] <Bob332> ok, no luck with adding noacpi
[07:18] <ogra> try nolapic
[07:19] <Bob332> ok, dosent work
[07:21] <Bob332> why does edubundu say stuff about my LVM, i didnt think i installed that when it asked to partition my disk
[07:23] <ogra> its only the bootscript ...
[07:23] <ogra> it directly stops if lvm isnt installed ...
[07:23] <Bob332> cool
[07:23] <ogra> costs some nanoseconds in the bootprocess :)
[07:23] <Bob332> because it says starting enterprise volume management system
[07:24] <ogra> yes...
[07:24] <ogra> but it doesnt do it :)
[07:24] <Bob332> nice
[07:24] <Bob332> ok so i have tried each and every acpi option 
[07:24] <ogra> yes, i'm running out of ideas ...
[07:24] <Bob332> is it definately my video card?
[07:24] <ogra> looks like ...
[07:24] <Bob332> or could it be something else
[07:25] <Bob332> ok im booting to xp now to get my video card spec
[07:25] <ogra> if you switch consoles after boot, do you get a console login prompt ? 
[07:25] <pirast> i don't know what you are talking about but
[07:25] <Bob332> i belive it's an old nvidia 32 mb card
[07:25] <Bob332> ogra, i never get a login prompt
[07:26] <Bob332> and no i cant do a console switch
[07:26] <ogra> did you try to switch consoles ? 
[07:26] <pirast> you could try vga=771 <-- did you try this?
[07:26] <ogra> wont help
[07:26] <pirast> okay..
[07:26] <ogra> the boot runs fine 
[07:26] <Bob332> whats that do?
[07:26] <pirast> k
[07:26] <ogra> X has a prob that apparently breaks the screen
[07:27] <ogra> is the system locked up if you see the cursor ? (does the numlock key respond ?)
[07:30] <Bob332>  my video card is a Nvidia Riva TNT2 Model 64/64 Pro
[07:30] <ogra> Bob332, is the system locked up if you see the cursor ? (does the numlock key respond ?)
[07:30] <Bob332> ogra, i am going to boot again for you
[07:30] <Bob332> thanks
[07:31] <ogra> hmm
[07:32] <ogra> your xorg should use the riva128 drive then
[07:32] <Bob332> the system dosent respond to any keyboard keystrokes, the num lock dosent light up
[07:32] <ogra> and rivafb should be loaded in the console
[07:32] <ogra> ok...
[07:32] <Bob332> im going into recovery mode now to check logs
[07:32] <Bob332> forgot to do that before
[07:32] <ogra> try to boot without the splash option and see whats last in the bootprocess
[07:33] <Bob332> how do i boot without the splash screen
[07:33] <ogra> and if you go into recovery mode, check if riva128 is in xorg.conf ...
[07:33] <Bob332> ok
[07:33] <ogra> just remove the word "splash" from the kernel line
[07:34] <Bob332> oh ok, when you said bootsplash before i thought it was something dealing with the RAM or ramdisk, didnt realize you meant the bootup splash screen, sorry
[07:48] <Bob332> ok booting wihtout a splash
[07:49] <Bob332> last part i see it starting Gnome Display Manager
[07:49] <Bob332> it gets through the entire boot
[07:49] <ogra> nothing afterwards ? 
[07:49] <ogra> there are plenty of services that get started after gdm ...
[07:50] <ogra> but its most likely a X problem ...
[07:50] <Bob332> yea
[07:50] <ogra> did you check your xorg.conf ? 
[07:51] <Bob332> im in it now
[07:52] <Bob332> what am i looking for?
[07:52] <ogra> what does the Driver line say ? 
[07:52] <Bob332> the Section Module?
[07:52] <ogra> Section "Device"
[07:52] <ogra> look for Driver in there
[07:53] <Bob332> ah, i see there is an INTEL entry in there
[07:53] <ogra> ouch
[07:53] <Bob332> haha, that stinks
[07:53] <ogra> has the mainboard a onboard graphics card ? 
[07:53] <Bob332> yea, it does, never worked though
[07:53] <ogra> hehe, i bet it does now :)
[07:53] <Bob332> i cant believe i forgot about that
[07:54] <Bob332> lol
[07:54] <Bob332> u think it works now?
[07:54] <ogra> try not changing and plug in the monitor to the onboard card ;)
[07:54] <Bob332> k
[07:55] <Bob332> ogra, onboard dosent even display my bios boot up or dell splash screen
[07:56] <ogra> did you disable it in the BIOS ? 
[07:56] <Bob332> nope, never did
[07:56] <Bob332> in bios now, 
[07:56] <ogra> leave the bios 
[07:56] <ogra> just boot it and have the monitor in the onboard card ...
[07:57] <Bob332> the primary video controller can be Auto or Onboard
[07:57] <ogra> even if it doesnt work in console mode, the card was detected, so i bet it works in X
[07:57] <Bob332> ok
[07:57] <ogra> leave it as it was :)
[07:57] <Bob332> ok i did
[07:57] <Bob332> im booting , back in grub now
[07:58] <Bob332> so your saying that after I finish the boot splash, switch my video to the intel onboard card and i should see something
[07:58] <ogra> probably ... lets see :)
[07:59] <Bob332> nope, black screen now....but im getting a green monitor light as opposed to the orange (meaning no signal)
[08:02] <Bob332> brb meeting
[08:04] <ogra> P3L|C4N0, mhz was looking for you 
[08:05] <mhz> P3L|C4N0: hola
[08:05] <P3L|C4N0> Hola Mauricio
[08:05] <mhz> P3L|C4N0: you're from Peru, right?
[08:05] <P3L|C4N0> efectivamente
[08:06] <mhz> P3L|C4N0: have we met before? estuve en Juliaca hace unos meses
[08:06] <P3L|C4N0> lo se
[08:06] <mhz> so we met?
[08:07] <P3L|C4N0> dime en que puedo ayudarte?
[08:08] <mhz> ogra: shall I continue here or move to -es channel?
[08:08] <ogra> if you speak spanish go to es, if you speak english, stay here ;)
[08:09] <mhz> P3L|C4N0: puedes ingresar a #edubuntu-es ?
[08:09] <P3L|C4N0> mhz, perfecto! deberia haber soporte en espaol
[08:27] <mhz> Seveas: ping
[08:27] <Seveas> pong
[08:28] <mhz> Seveas: i'm already taking to P3L|C4N0 , the one who registered #edubuntu-es
[08:28] <juliux> Seveas, can you fix a broken link on fridge ?
[08:29] <Seveas> mhz, cool
[08:29] <Seveas> juliux, fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:29] <juliux> Seveas, have i to subscribe?
[08:29] <Seveas> no
[08:30] <juliux> Seveas, thanks
[08:39] <mhz> Seveas: P3L|C4N0 has agreed to give you admin access. Is that useful? is that what we need? He has given you "access" to #ubuntu-es and #edubuntu-es
[08:40] <Seveas> mhz, I saw that in messages from chanserv shooting by
[08:40] <Seveas> ask him to give you access too, since I won't be around 24/7 :)
[08:41] <mhz> no? not 24/7 ?
[08:41] <mhz> hehehe
[08:41] <ogra> Seveas, slacker :p
[08:41] <ogra> you dare to sleep ?
[08:41] <Seveas> 3 hours per night
[08:42] <mhz> ah, ok, we forgive you
[08:42] <ogra> bah ... thats much :)
[08:42] <mhz> Seveas: actually there's whole theory about sleeping on a 3 hour periods
[08:42] <ogra> just do it like the cats ... 5 min every hour 
[08:43] <mhz> really?
[08:43] <mhz> wow!
[08:44] <mhz> but i love to have good sleeps
[08:44] <ogra> does rabbit imply somthing ?
[08:44] <mhz> hehehehe, no idea
[08:44] <mhz> we otta ask chinease
[08:44] <mhz> guys
[09:26] <mhz> re
[10:04] <mhz> Seveas: so, can we now include #edubuntu-es as "official" channel for spanish speakers?
[10:04] <Seveas> sure
[10:05] <mhz> Seveas: and as soon as jdub tell me if we have or not the edubuntu-es ML, we'll include it too
[10:06] <kjcole> Hiya.
[10:06] <mhz> hi
[10:09] <kjcole> mhz, since I know you have nothing better to do than join another ubuntu-* team, I have a question for you. ;-)
[10:09] <mhz> hehehehehe
[10:09] <mhz> LOL
[10:09] <mhz> shoot
[10:10] <kjcole> mhz, I'm finding a lot of overlap between the three I'm involved in: documentation, education, and accessibility.
[10:10] <mhz> why?
[10:10] <mhz> I tkink diff are storng
[10:10] <mhz> strong
[10:10] <mhz> and clear
[10:11] <mhz> maybe doc and educ share similar goals on many points
[10:11] <kjcole> mhz, but I am mono-lingual...  I can use sign language, but after many years, I still am not fluent. 
[10:11] <mhz> ahhh
[10:12] <kjcole> mhz, I've been talking to deaf education experts here on campus about education and accessibility in Ubuntu, and the feedback I get is that I should think about other spoken languages and translation when thinking about deaf accessibility.
[10:12] <kjcole> mhz, Hence, I'm talking to you. ;-)
[10:13] <mhz> aahhhhhhh
[10:13] <mhz> good point
[10:13] <mhz> they give you
[10:14] <kjcole> mhz: For example, a guy who's studying deaf linguistics said that he worked with people on making mathematics exams more accessible to a deaf audience, and found that the use of passive voice, which is common in computer documentation, is uncommon in many languages, and appears to be very "English".
[10:15] <mhz> indeed
[10:15] <kjcole> Deaf students have trouble with that.  He said "When planning the original documentation, avoid passive voice.  Then translations to other languages become easier, and also more accessible to deaf users."
[10:16] <mhz> in spanish our passive voice is very rare. We use it a lot in Chile when we dont want to reckon we did soemthing bad :)
[10:16] <kjcole> But I *DREAM* in 3rd-person, passive voice. Writing that way is very natural to me.  
[10:17] <mhz> kjcole: I can help you. Help can be given from me to you :D
[10:17] <kjcole> mhz, So, when the opportunity arises, perhaps you can lend your voice (active, rather than passive) and knowledge to the discussions.
[10:17] <mhz> sure! I'd love to.
[10:18] <mhz> Many english speakers do have that passive voice sindrom when learning spanish
[10:18] <mhz> and from a chilean POV. it was hard for me at the begining.
[10:19] <kjcole> Another colleague just walked in with a 95-page 8.5" x 11" book called "Readable English for Hearing-Impaired Students" which I expect to be VERY helpful!
[10:19] <mhz> maybe it's a cultural thing
[10:19] <mhz> wow!
[10:19] <mhz> that reminds me I need to contact some local institutions that work on this areas
[10:20] <mhz> otherwise, i'm not gonna be much of a help
[10:22] <kjcole> I guess what I want is someone who's native language is less passive voice, but who has a strong command of English, and can say with relative ease "I would say it this way in my language," but say it in English.
[10:23] <kjcole> When I converse, (online or offline) I'm fairly "active voice" I think.  And my writing -- I am told by others -- is pretty understandable.  But my audience is 100% English language fluent.
[10:24] <blue-frog> kjcole i could try to go over some stuff of yours if u wish. am french..
[10:25] <mhz> kjcole: i'd be very happy 'coz I will finally feel I am helping on something "difficult"
[10:25] <kjcole> blue-frog: Nice.  Thanks.  
[10:27] <kjcole> This is great!  Maybe I should write in my "native" style, and then have both of you (and others) translate to whatever's your favorite, with an "ear" towards making it more natural in your language.  Then finally, translate it back again.  A long way but probably a successful one.
[10:28] <kjcole> (I wish I'
[10:28] <kjcole> (I wish I'd been exposed to a second language early in life.)
[10:29] <kjcole> blue-frog: Who are you?  (Or perhaps just "How do I contact you outside of IRC?")
[10:29] <blue-frog> james.dupin@gmail.com
[10:30] <blue-frog> wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesDupin
[10:30] <kjcole> blue-frog: Thanks. And I'm Kevin Cole <kjcole@gri.gallaudet.edu>
[10:30] <blue-frog> will have my resume soon on the page..
[10:31] <mhz> kjcole: hmmm, I think I can read in english and "re-phrase" it as a non-passive (chilean) voice would say it
[10:32] <mhz> then we'd skip one step
[10:32] <mhz> kjcole: I used to work as a translator and interpreter
[10:32] <kjcole> Yeah, but I'm assuming that if I'm writing something that is any good, you'll want it in another language anyway. ;-)
[10:33] <mhz> kjcole: however, I did stop working as such because I am kind of hyperactive so I used to get sleepy in the process
[10:33] <kjcole> mhz: Or maybe you'll just write your own from scratch...
[10:33] <mhz> kjcole: yes and nop. 
[10:34] <mhz> IMHPOV, more people should learn both spanish and english (considering current # of population speaking any of those)
[10:35] <kjcole> mhz: Ah, that explains why you seem so familiar with my universe (deaf education).  I imagine some of that interpreting/translating and your interest in education links up well with what goes on here.
[10:35] <blue-frog> btw a rewritten manual (using less passive voice) would sit next to the proper manual, correct?
[10:37] <kjcole> blue-frog: I hope that there might be a compromise:  Although the style will be different and may "taste" a little strange, I'm wondering if we cannot achieve a "proper" manual that retains the active voice.
[10:37] <mhz> kjcole: indeed
[10:38] <kjcole> mhz: As for learning Spanish and English (or English and anything else): The spirit is willing but the mind is weak.  (And sometimes, if I'm tired enough, I become "The Ugly American (TM)"
[10:38] <mhz> hehehehehehehe
[10:38] <kjcole> mhz, I think you've met my evil alter ego at 7:00 AM.
[10:38] <blue-frog> in my opinion shouldn't be too strange though, even thoug the focus wouldn't be learning english in such manuals it shouldn't be too improper use of the english language
[10:38] <mhz> nha
[10:38] <blue-frog> or locutions
[10:38] <mhz> blue-frog: good point
[10:40] <blue-frog> or we would arrive at a point where everebody's understandright awawy but a bit of the chinese way (no offense) learning english to cope in coversation but not good english
[10:40] <mhz> blue-frog: however, kjcole aims to 'people who doesn not speak english' they speak deaf language
[10:40] <blue-frog> and my spelling is getting worse...
[10:40] <kjcole> blue-frog: Politically awkward for me then: If I'm trying to sell Ubuntu to a deaf audience, I'm going to need to say "Here's the English language manual, and oh, here's the deaf English language manual."
[10:40] <mhz> blue-frog: lol
[10:40] <blue-frog> oh yeah sry thru that out of my mind
[10:40] <blue-frog> threw
[10:41] <kjcole> In English, one might say that idea would go over like a "lead balloon". ;-)
[10:41] <mhz> kjcole: the way i imagine it, deaf people do not even use same "gammar structures" we are used to, do they?
[10:42] <kjcole> mhz, correct.  In fact, the true "ASL-ers" (American Sign Language users) who've used it since birth, would be more comfortable with French.
[10:42] <mhz> ie: how would they think of "If i were you, I would have done this and such.."
[10:42] <kjcole> ASL is really a "French import" in a way.
[10:43] <blue-frog> but at the same time i guess disabled people don't like being put aside and i fear that what they could think if once again there is a 'normal' manual and a deaf manual, no?
[10:43] <mhz> hhhmm. interesting, indeed.
[10:43] <kjcole> mhz, Good question and one I cannot answer.  That's why I'm desperately trying to recruit deaf students here who are sympathetic to the cause. ;-)
[10:44] <blue-frog> right
[10:44] <mhz> please do so.
[10:44] <blue-frog> problem is as well for us and the politically correct is that we don't even know how to interact between eachother..
[10:44] <kjcole> blue-frog: Exactly my point about the "lead balloon" -- It would not float well.
[10:44] <mhz> blue-frog: yup
[10:45] <mhz> oooops, sorry guys. Wife needs me.
[10:45] <mhz> and I betta obey
[10:45] <mhz> :)
[10:45] <blue-frog> hang on lead balloon.. explain to me quickly pls. i think that would be nice if i understand properly your idea..
[10:45] <kjcole> mhz is now known as mhz_hen-pecked.
[10:45] <mhz> hehehehe
[10:46] <mhz> to say it formally.
[10:49] <kjcole> blue-frog: American idiom -- "That idea will go over like a lead (periodic table element Pb) balloon" a.k.a. "That idea won't fly"
[10:49] <blue-frog> kjcole or lead balloon is just an english expression that i don't know?
[10:49] <blue-frog> ok then
[10:49] <kjcole> It is an idea with little hope of future success.
[10:50] <blue-frog> got it now
[10:50] <blue-frog> i mean from the ameraican idiom :)
[10:50] <kjcole> (And as a follow up, one often says, when proposing a new idea for the first time "Let's float that idea.")
[10:52] <kjcole> (or "see if it floats" -- is it feasible?)
[10:52] <kjcole> blue-frog: ah.
[10:53] <kjcole> Well, I have a student waiting.  Talk to you later.
[11:09] <mhz> re
[11:15] <Bob332> anybody know how i can install a GDesklet on my edubuntu deesktop
[11:15] <mhz> Bob332: i nvere used it yet. Did you try Synaptics?
[11:16] <Bob332> mhz, no whats synaptics?
[11:16] <Bob332> goto gdesklets.gnomedesktop.org, awesome site
[11:16] <mhz> oh, it's Synaptic (sorry) and it's the application manager
[11:17] <mhz> Bob332: indeed
[11:17] <Bob332> no no, synaptic wouldnt do it here
[11:17] <Bob332> this is a gnome applet and i forget how to istall it
[11:18] <mhz> oooh
[11:18] <mhz> sorry, no idea
[11:19] <ogra> Bob332, so that means you actually *have* a desktop now ?
[11:20] <Bob332> ogra, i wiped out my laptop
[11:20] <Bob332> still have the other problem on the older PC
[11:20] <mhz> ogra: sorry to ask again but... what exactly would we take care of (we, the ones who will own it) if we work on wmaker for edubuntu?
[11:20] <Bob332> the distro is cool though
[11:20] <ogra> thanks :)
[11:20] <ogra> mhz, no idea, its your decision ...
[11:21] <mhz> ogra: but you said that there may be issues regarding development maintainance or hardware stuuf or libraries?
[11:22] <ogra> make sure your changes dont break the package for other users ... 
[11:22] <ogra> note that the package is used in ubuntu and kubuntu too
[11:23] <mhz> and I assume even if we do the artwork for wmaker before dapper is frozen, that would not be edubuntu CD, right?
[11:23] <mhz> or there are hopes?
[11:23] <mhz> (had to ask :D )
[11:26] <ogra> if its just a theme, i can put it into edubuntu-artwork ...
[11:26] <ogra> so wmaker users can choose it
[11:26] <mhz> perfect!
[11:27] <mhz> we are planning to just start and see people response to it
[11:27] <ogra> just check that you put it where they belong i guess there might be a wmaker-themes package or something
[11:38] <mhz> ogra: and wil that cause probs. for the menu-profile stuff you mentioned yesterday night
[11:39] <mhz> ?
[11:40] <ogra> as long as wmaker complies to freedesktop.org specs it wont ...
[11:40] <mhz> cool
[11:42] <lucasvo> is there something like the gnome panel applet drawer, but which allows you to put in items even without opening? (so it stays open all the time?)
[11:43] <ogra> another panel ? 
[11:50] <lucasvo> ogra: I would like to have a panel where I can just drag my files in(as symlinks)
[11:51] <ogra> thats what i meant ... put a sidepanel on your desktop