[12:05] <mdke> np
[12:05] <siretart> mjg59: re: acpi-support on r50e: read the bug report, sounds great. will test tomorrow!
[12:05] <siretart> gn8 for today!
[01:22] <jdon1> alright, what's the magical command for finding the source package to a given binary package from the CLI?
[01:22] <jdon1> trying to figure out what'd need rebuilding for a hypothetical Firefox 1.5 backport :)
[01:23] <lifeless> apt-cache show binary-pacakge
[01:23] <jdub> apt-cache show <binary-package-name> | grep ^Source
[01:23] <jdon1> ok, that make sense
[01:24] <jdon1> apt-cache rdepends firefox | awk -F\  '{print $1}'  | grep -v "^|" | sort | uniq | grep -ve "desktop" | grep -v "Reverse" | xargs apt-cache show | grep "^Source" | awk -F\: '{print $2}' | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq
[01:24] <jdon1> aaaaahhhh
[01:24] <jdon1> but it works
[01:24] <jdon1> :)
[01:28] <jefferyb> I was wondering if anyone can help... I need to run a script everytime a user logs in onto the desktop, and I was wodering where to put the script so it could run when ever someone logs in...
[01:28] <jdon1> jefferyb: wrong channel... #ubuntu
[01:29] <jefferyb> thanks
[01:29] <majyk> is the backports archive down? Synaptic complains that it cannot stat some files when I add the backports archives to my /etc/apt/sources.list
[01:29] <jdon1> majyk: what exactly _did_ you add to sources.list?
[01:30] <jdon1>  |bookmarkbridge
[01:30] <jdon1>     firefox
[01:30] <jdon1>   mozilla-thunderbird
[01:30] <jdon1> how to take out spaces and |'s?
[01:30] <majyk> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu breezy-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[01:30] <jdon1> majyk: did you reload synaptic?
[01:30] <jdon1> majyk: I meant the list (i.e. sudo apt-get update)
[01:30] <majyk> yes multiple times
[01:31] <jdon1> majyk: exact error example from Synaptic
[01:32] <majyk> sorry it's on another computer and it's a bunch of garbage about how synaptic can't stat files pertaining to the backports archive
[01:33] <majyk> ok the apt-get update worked
[01:33] <majyk> but the directions on the backport page don't tell you to do an apt-get update
[01:33] <majyk> maybe that's an understood task
[01:33] <jdon1> majyk: sorry, it's more of an understood thing
[01:33] <majyk> haha, yeah
[01:33] <jdon1> majyk: doesn't the error box in synaptic suggest trying to reload the list?
[01:33] <jdon1> majyk: if not, that should be addressed for usability :)
[01:34] <jdon1> it's a very common problem, actually
[01:34] <jdon1> don't feel bad :)
[01:34] <majyk> why do I feel stupid while using Ubuntu when I've been using Gentoo for so long
[01:34] <majyk> each distro has it's own set of shit to remember
[01:39] <majyk> us.
[01:39] <majyk> oops
[01:43] <majyk> browsing us.archive.ubuntu.com mirror with a firefox lists a Ruby 1.8.3 package in main but Synaptic does not list this
[01:48] <majyk> must not be a breezy package right?
[01:48] <azeem> majyk: sounds plausible
[01:51] <majyk> thanks guys
[02:20] <mhz> jdub: ping
[02:35] <jdub> mhz: pong
[02:42] <mhz> jdub: ping
[02:42] <jdub> mhz: pong again
[02:42] <mhz> hehehe
[02:42] <mhz> sorry
[02:42] <mhz> I thought you were somewhere else, i was
[02:42] <mhz> jdub: so, will that ML be possible
[02:42] <jdub> mhz: yeah, gotta catch up with ogra abougt it tho
[02:43] <mhz> okis
[02:43] <mhz> jdub: are you in charge of registering IRC channels, as well?
[02:44] <jdub> nup
[02:44] <jdub> see the list of ops for #ubuntu
[02:45] <ogra> jdub, i bet you are in this list :
[02:45] <ogra> :P
[02:45] <mhz> ok, and when do you think I can have a y/n answer from you about the ML?
[02:46] <jdub> i probably am, but i don't register new channels now ;)
[02:46] <jdub> mhz: unfortunately not tonight (even though ogra is here) because i have to go in a minute
[02:46] <jdub> ogra: will catch up with you tomorrow or something
[02:46] <ogra> me too... its about 3am :)
[02:46] <mhz> jdub: ok, i get it
[02:47] <mhz> jdub: ogra thx for taking care of this
[03:12] <toresbe> hello guys :)
[03:12] <toresbe> Are there plans for a Firefox 1.5 backport to Breezy?
[03:13] <mhz> no idea, here
[04:30] <wasabi_> So udev has self destructed on me in some fashion. At boot, the system appears to lock up on Creating initla device nodes.
[04:30] <infinity> Lucky you.
[04:30] <wasabi_> Upon some creative working around the problem, I've found it's reading from /dev/.tmp-13-64.
[04:30] <wasabi_> and blocking
[04:30] <infinity> Which kernel and which udev?
[04:31] <wasabi_> latest from dapper.
[04:31] <wasabi_> Any idea what 13, 64 is?
[04:31] <wasabi_> So I can fix it heh
[04:31] <infinity> Are you using a 2.6.15 kernel, or 2.6.12 still?
[04:32] <wasabi_> eh, good question, checking.
[04:32] <wasabi_> 2.6.12-10
[04:32] <wasabi_> didn't see .15
[04:32] <infinity> And udev 0.060-1ubuntu15?
[04:32] <wasabi_> Yes.
[04:33] <wasabi_> My first guess is this is some broken device in my system.
[04:33] <wasabi_> I just don't know which one.
[04:33] <wasabi_> and udev should timeout...
[04:33] <infinity> Kay.  That combination should work fine (does for everyone else), so you're lucky with a capital "L", but there's not a whole lot of point in debugging it, since kernel 2.6.15 and udev 076 should become the defaults within a day.
[04:33] <wasabi_> Makes sense.
[04:34] <wasabi_> Still would like to know what device this is. There a easy refernece for min/maj numbers?
[04:34] <infinity> If it still breaks for you in fun ways after the Update From Hell later, bug Keybuk. :)
[05:13] <lamont> ogra: missed one spot - sorry.  and then I've had connectivity issues for the last couple days...
[05:13] <lamont> edubuntu livefs builds running now
[05:23] <jbailey> mjg59: No script should use takeover, it's for humans only.
[05:24] <mjg59> jbailey: That's what I thought
[05:24] <jbailey> mjg59: KErnels before -5 don't use update-initramfs, so that looks like the expected response.
[05:24] <mjg59> Ok
[05:24] <wasabi_> Weird
[05:24] <mjg59> So what should usplash do in that case?
[05:24] <jbailey> It'll go away as linux-meta is updated.
[05:24] <wasabi_> 13, is somehow related to input.
[05:24] <mjg59> Bearing in mind that it may be installed before the new kernel
[05:25] <jbailey> Probably silently ignore it and do nothing.
[05:25] <jbailey> The new kernel getting installed will cause the initramfs to be updated.
[05:25] <wasabi_> jbailey: any clues why udevstart would lock up? 
[05:25] <wasabi_> =)
[05:25] <jbailey> wasabi: A bus scan on a fault driver, usually.
[05:25] <wasabi_> specifically looks like it is blocking reading /dev.tmp-13-64
[05:26] <wasabi_> Looks like the specific process is '/sbin/vol_id --export /dev/.tmp-13-64
[05:26] <wasabi_> no man page. =(
[05:27] <jbailey> wasabi_: udevstart will probably dissapear from dapper in a week or so, so.. =)
[05:28] <jbailey> mjg59: I need to go pass out soon.  Is there anything else you need on that?
[05:28] <lamont> ogra: and edubuntu-{desktop,live} are not installable
[05:28] <jbailey> mjg59: And failing that, Adam's now handling initramfs-tools, so he's likely to be awake sometime soonish.
[05:29] <infinity> Riddell : Around?
[05:29] <mjg59> jbailey: Nope, that's cool
[05:29] <wasabi_> Wonder if I can just kill udev for the time being
[05:30] <wasabi_> or make it ignore that major/minor
[05:30] <jbailey> mjg59: Lovely. =)
[05:31] <wasabi_> So that new pre-dapper stuff available now? :)
[05:36] <calc> how do you put a computer into suspend mode normally so that it uses the /etc/acpi scripts, besides using the gnome suspend logout option?
[05:36] <calc> i'm trying to debug why its not working right on my system
[05:36] <calc> vbetool seems to at least partially work, but something is keeping the system from coming back from suspend
[05:37] <mjg59> calc: Just call /etc/acpi/sleep.sh
[05:38] <mjg59> It does a small amount of stuff, calls prepare.sh, sleeps and then calls resume.sh
[05:38] <calc> ok
[05:38] <mjg59> calc: What hardware is this? Still amd64?
[05:38] <calc> yea amd64
[05:38] <calc> i ran /etc/acpi/sleep.sh and it did nothing apparently
[05:39] <mjg59> calc: Edit /etc/default/acpi-support and uncomment the second line
[05:40] <calc> oh oops :)
[05:40] <calc> sleep in gnome doesn't seem to use that
[05:40] <calc> note i may disappear if it doesn't come back, i'll log back in
[05:41] <wasabi_> Where'd isapnptools get to?
[05:43] <mjg59> wasabi_: Should be mostly superseded by /sys/bus/pnp nowadays
[05:44] <ccheney> back
[05:44] <ccheney> it didn't come back
[05:45] <ccheney> the power light lit back up solid instead of blinking but it didn't seem to come back at all
[05:45] <wasabi_> mjg59: hmm. nead to relearn ISA in linux I guess
[05:45] <ccheney> the screen didn't come back and magic sysrq didn't work either
[05:45] <mjg59> ccheney: Which kernel?
[05:45] <ccheney> 2.6.12-10-amd64-k8 2.6.12-10.24
[05:46] <mjg59> Ok
[05:46] <mjg59> My amd64 only started working with 2.6.15
[05:46] <ccheney> i could try 2.6.15 i have it installed but the ipw2200 driver doesn't work
[05:46] <mjg59> Oh. Hm.
[05:46] <mjg59> Yeah, give the 2.6.15 one a whirl
[05:47] <ccheney> oh bbia 5min
[05:52] <ccheney> back
[05:53] <ccheney> does the same thing, too bad laptops don't have serial anymore :(
[05:53] <ccheney> is there a way to get output from it in some other way?
[05:53] <ccheney> as far as to whether it came back at all?
[05:54] <ccheney> i disabled the video post option since it didn't seem to work at the command line, but the vbe save state does work at least without going into s3 first, tested it out on command line earlier
[05:56] <mjg59> calc: So with 2.6.15 and running that script, it suspends and then hangs on resume?
[05:56] <calc> yea
[05:56] <mjg59> What model is this?
[05:56] <calc> afaict it hangs so that sysrq doesn't work
[05:56] <mjg59> No caps lock light?
[05:57] <calc> hmm yea i have one of those i forgot to check that
[05:57] <mjg59> Last thing to try is disabling all the video options in /etc/default/acpi-support and try sleeping from a text console
[05:57] <calc> http://people.debian.org/~ccheney/arima-w720-k8.html
[05:57] <calc> actually i think the model is w730-k8, its emachines m6809/gateway 74xx
[05:58] <calc> oh yea i was sleeping from text console but had the video vbe stuff still enabled but not the video post
[05:58] <mjg59> Ok - disable the video vbe stuff
[05:58] <calc> ok
[05:58] <mjg59> /Sometimes/ it can cause hangs
[05:59] <calc> so without any video stuff i should test the capslock key?
[05:59] <calc> because the video will be dead, right?
[06:00] <mjg59> Yeah
[06:01] <calc> ok will try that out brb
[06:11] <calc> back
[06:11] <calc> i think it comes back but without video or keyboard
[06:11] <calc> the hard drive light blinks a few times after i hit a key to bring the system back
[06:12] <mjg59> It's probably dying in the kernel
[06:12] <mjg59> Does it have docking station support?
[06:12] <calc> no
[06:12] <mjg59> Right
[06:12] <mjg59> In that case, you're probably screwed for now
[06:12] <calc> ok
[06:13] <calc> i'll probably try causing disk io in the resume.sh later with some sleep stmts to see if i can make it blink to me ;)
[06:14] <calc> thanks for the help
[06:17] <mjg59> Heh
[06:17] <mjg59> Also, search acpi-devel for beep
[06:17] <mjg59> There's some code for trying to make the system speaker go beep
[06:17] <calc> ah ok
[06:22] <calc> hmm i found a list of acpi_sleep options that are supposed to do interesting things to buggy hw
[06:23] <calc> eg s3_bios ?
[06:28] <calc> interesting the acpi-devel list states my laptop should work, but perhaps it is only for 32bit mode
[06:29] <calc> just says vbestate is needed
[06:30] <mjg59> The kernel options only do stuff that vbetool can already do
[06:30] <mjg59> (rather more safely)
[06:31] <calc> ok
[06:42] <infinity> a) QT takes forever to build
[06:42] <infinity> b) I'm impatient
[06:42] <infinity> Pick one.
[06:42] <Amaranth> a?
[06:42] <infinity> Could be a bit of both.  I'm undecided.
[06:45] <calc> got some more ideas to try, bbl
[07:14] <dholbach> good morning
[08:19] <pitti> Good morning
[08:20] <pitti> hehe, nice usplash artwork :)
[08:20] <pitti> (althouhg I hope that it won't be the final one)
[08:21] <dholbach> i think it rocks
[08:21] <dholbach> that's a reason to upgrade to dapper imho
[08:21] <infinity> The final one will be EVER BETTAR.
[08:21] <infinity> s/EVER/EVEN/
[08:21] <dholbach> :)
[08:22] <zyga> morning
[08:24] <ajmitch_> oh very smooth
[08:25] <dholbach> yeah, it rocks
[08:31] <pitti> Hi zyga 
[08:32] <siretart> morning
[08:35] <sivang> morning all
[08:35] <pitti> Hi siretart 
[08:35] <pitti> Hey sivang 
[09:27] <noary> i
[09:27] <noary> i have problem remaster ubuntu install cd .
[09:28] <noary> i add package font . but i seem error apt step fail.
[09:29] <noary> Please answer me.
[09:29] <noary> if  do you know.
[09:29] <dholbach> hey seb128 
[09:30] <seb128> hi dholbach
[09:30] <zakame> hi seb128 :)
[09:30] <FireRabbit> howdy
[09:31] <noary> what is chanel develop?
[09:33] <hunger> noary: This is not a support channel. Please ask on #ubuntu.
[09:33] <dholbach> noary: didn't you write this already on the mailing list?
[09:34] <noary> what is mailing list?
[09:34] <dholbach> oh sorry, i thought you did, nevermind then
[09:36] <zyga> noary: try #ubuntu
[09:39] <zyga> morning mvo
[09:41] <dholbach> hey mvo!
[09:42] <mvo> hey zyga, dholbach 
[09:50] <pitti> Hi mvo, a lovely good morning!
[09:51] <mvo> pitti: hello! nice outcome of the discussion yesterday, I'm going to do it like this in update-notifier as well
[09:51] <pitti> mvo: well, it's an easy and imperfect solution, but I can live with it
[09:52] <mvo> pitti: I like the fact that it's easy. and all the options we had had one or the other problem
[09:53] <zyga> what are you guys talking about? :)
[09:54] <Riddell> infinity: hi
[09:54] <pitti> Hey seb128_
[09:56] <mvo> Kamion: was my upload of language-selector for breezy-updates rejected?
[10:03] <seb128> pitti: hey ;)
[10:05] <infinity> Riddell : I was going to ask you why libqt3-mt-dev.links had been dropped from QT 3.3.5, but it was blocking me, so I just uploaded.
[10:07] <Riddell> infinity: saw that, thanks for fixing, I'll investigate what happened when I get time
[10:25] <fabbione> seb128, dholbach: can you please remove type-handling B-D from gnome-applets?
[10:25] <fabbione> type-handling -> universe
[10:25] <fabbione> otherwise is FTBFS
[10:26] <fabbione> thanks guys
[10:27] <seb128> I blame dholbach
[10:27] <dholbach> haha :)
[10:28] <fabbione> i blame gtk and gnome team
[10:28] <fabbione> :)
[10:29] <mvo> isn't there the saying "you win as a team, you lose as a team" ;)
[10:30] <ajmitch_> mvo: sure, that's why he blamed the gnome team :)
[10:30] <ajmitch_> better them than the distro team :)
[10:30] <fabbione> ajmitch: ++
[10:30] <fabbione> ;)
[10:30] <mvo> haha
[10:31] <ajmitch_> jordi!
[10:31] <seb128> I blame jordi
[10:31] <dholbach> haha
[10:32] <dholbach> ajmitch_, fabbione: it's the DESKTOP! TEAM! *raising awareness*
[10:32] <ajmitch_> oh sorry
[10:32] <sivang> dholbach: ?
[10:35] <dholbach> fabbione: done, thanks for the heads-up
[10:35] <fabbione> dholbach: no problem.. it was my sparc buildd yelling at you ;)
[10:37] <pitti> yay, my new language packs *finally* work
[10:37] <ajmitch_> yay
[10:37] <doko_> pitti: ping
[10:37] <pitti> Hi doko_ 
[10:41] <jordi> wtf!
[10:44] <siretart> elmo: please sync londonlaw from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes. thanks
[10:45] <\sh> moins
[10:47] <fabbione> so...
[10:47] <fabbione> why do i get an Edubuntu gdm theme installing a clean dapper?
[10:47] <sivang> edubuntu takes over?
[10:48] <fabbione> jordi: do i need to blame you this time? ;)
[10:49] <\sh> fabbione: edubuntu world domination .. the plan was setteled during a drinking bof at ubz...can't you remember...you agreed ,-)
[10:50] <fabbione> ehm.. i always remember even when i am drunk :/
[10:51] <Kamion> mvo: Rejected: no signature found in language-selector_0.0+baz20050824_source.changes.
[10:51] <Kamion> you should've got mail ...
[10:53] <siretart> elmo: please sync i810switch from unstable, all ubuntu changes have been merged
[10:54] <marilize> rob1: hi, what is your email address?
[10:55] <hunger> Seen the (prelimanary) results of the desktop linux survey: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5481370522.html
[10:55] <\sh> fabbione: hehe :) just teasing :)
[10:56] <hunger> 53% ubuntu;-)
[10:56] <mvo> Kamion: what about version language-selector_0.1.1?
[10:57] <mvo> Kamion: from 22.11?
[10:57] <siretart> Kamion: I'm not excatly sure how to proceed, but I noticed that lbdb (in main) now build depends on libvformat1-dev, which is in universe and thus ftbfs.
[10:59] <Kamion> mvo: oh, right, sorry, guess I should've checked the date
[10:59] <Kamion> mvo: language-selector |      0.1.1 | breezy-updates | source, all
[10:59] <Kamion> siretart: "anastacia" is the tool that gives us automatic reports of such problems
[11:00] <pitti> siretart: I looked at libvformat, it needs to drop c2man before I approve it
[11:00] <\sh> elmo: please accept sync requests from zakama and bmonty, they're motus since yesterday thx :)
[11:00] <Kamion> promotions/demotions are done every so often by elmo or mdz or me, sometimes based on inclusion reports (as pitti alludes to)
[11:00] <siretart> ah, ok, you already know about that.
[11:00] <mvo> Kamion: I'll ask mdz later
[11:00] <mvo> thanks
[11:00] <siretart> I noticed that it tries to get build since a couple of days
[11:07] <Kamion> mvo: what do you need to ask him about? it's already in the archive ...
[11:12] <mvo> Kamion: oh, sorry. it dosn't show up on packages.u.c
[11:12] <zakame> elmo: hi! please sync kexi, hardware-monitor, ion2, ipkungfu, lessdisks, luxman, and matrem from debian, ok to override ubuntu changes.   Thanks! :)
[11:14] <\sh> dholbach: ping...https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xterm/+bug/4724
[11:18] <sivang> mm, is still utf-8 not working on dapper? 
[11:19] <viviersf> doko_, is that bug with openoffice and big documents fixed yet ?
[11:19] <sivang> in terminals, that is
[11:21] <dholbach> \sh: pong?
[11:21] <lifeless> there seem to be two synaptic touchpad packages now...
[11:21] <lifeless> which one is 'latest' ?
[11:22] <sladen> sivang: utf-8 should work fine.  Do you have enough fonts for hebrew?
[11:23] <\sh> dholbach: it's more daniels issue
[11:23] <dholbach> \sh: i thought you were the maintainer now
[11:24] <dholbach> \sh: you did all the uploads
[11:24] <\sh> dholbach: yes...but it's not an xterm issue
[11:24] <dholbach> then reassign it, thanks
[11:25] <\sh> dholbach: yepp
[11:27] <sivang> sladen: ah, it does work on the terminal, but now on irssi etc. possibly something wrong with irssi ?
[11:28] <sladen> sivang /SET term_type UTF-8
[11:28] <sladen> sivang: and you need to teach screen aswell
[11:29] <crimsun> ^A:utf8 on on
[11:29] <sladen> (maybe these should just default by now)
[11:29] <\sh> hmm...I need xvbf-run which is missing in action
[11:30] <mjr> screen should understand an utf-8 locale setting just fine. Not sure about irssi, I thought it did tho. term_type may be needed.
[11:31] <sivang> I can see now hebrew letters and type, but acutally inputting them is all broken. That is, I get 1 out of 10 letters typed shown etc
[11:31] <mjr> hmm, oh yeah, actually, irssi has a problem with full width characters; are hebrew ones like that?
[11:31] <\sh> dholbach: grmpf...forget it :) 
[11:32] <\sh> dholbach: damn changes
[11:32] <sivang> mjr: what do you mean full width?
[11:32] <mjr> sivang, double the width of normal ascii chars
[11:32] <sladen> sivang: 'double-width'
[11:32] <sivang> sladen: I think so
[11:33] <sladen> sivang: Hebrew , hmm.  For me those are 6 and 5 'squares' wide
[11:34] <sladen> and that worked just fine through gnome-terminal->ssh->screen->irssi
[11:34] <mjr> yeah, normal half-width it seems
[11:34] <sivang> sladen: I got QY
[11:34] <lifeless> yah, I got them too
[11:35] <mjr> 'course, irssi doesn't do rtl at all :)
[11:35] <lifeless> uxterm->ssh->screen->irssi too
[11:35] <lifeless>  
[11:35] <sivang> mjr: it doesn't (so I usual type backwards) but it used to display every char correctly on breezy
[11:35] <lifeless> round trips fine too ;)
[11:35] <mjr> sivang, ok
[11:37] <mjr> some regression then :I
[11:37] <sivang> sladen: how do you know if a non latin char is half/double width ?
[11:38] <mjr> sivang, wcwidth() :] 
[11:40] <sladen>  , , interesting, it gave me a double width entry cursor after pasting those, but the display got out of sync and require a ctrl-L to fix it
[11:40] <mjr> sladen, yeah, that's the way irssi "handles" it
[11:40] <sladen> and even that didn't match what came back again (two commas)
[11:41] <mjr> (the cursor is just a terminal thing, irssi doesn't know about that)
[11:42] <mjr> ...now, if irssi just used readline :)
[11:42] <sivang> sladen:  W\uffff\\uffff^ <-- this is what I got
[11:42] <pitti> 'Wuff', nice :) sounds like a dogg
[11:42] <sivang> hehe
[11:42] <pitti> s/g$//
[11:45] <sladen> sivang: I think something along the line assumes you've got 8bit mapping and is trying to convert the highbit into a W and then finding out that it can't convert the rest.
[11:53] <janimo> will hotplug, grepmap and pcmcia-cs be kept in dapper?
[11:55] <Kamion> janimo: hotplug won't, grepmap will, pcmcia-cs probably won't but does need to stay there for now while we figure some other stuff out
[11:56] <siretart> wow fun. ld segfaulting on ia64
[11:57] <janimo> what is the reason for grepmap staying?
[12:11] <Kamion> janimo: it's going to be adjusted a bit and used for some cases where the kernel doesn't expose useful MODALIAS
[12:11] <janimo> thanks
[12:11] <Keybuk> grepmap?
[12:11] <Kamion> yes
[12:11] <janimo> yes
[12:12] <Keybuk> yeah, if you look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/software/grepmap/ there's a new 1.1.0 release of it
[12:12] <Keybuk> it supports a "grepmap --udev" option that reads the environment rather than the command-line
[12:12] <janimo> and the kernel can't do it or just won't export that in dapper timeframe?
[12:12] <Keybuk> so we can do: SUBSYSTEM=="input", PROGRAM="/sbin/grepmap --udev", RUN+="/sbin/modprobe $result"
[12:13] <Keybuk> well, the kernel hasn't yet done modalias for the input subsystem ... I guess it's a "tricky" one and might come later
[12:13] <Keybuk> but I don't know for certain that it ever will
[12:13] <janimo> hmm I thought 2.6.15 was supposed to take the input subsys to the same level as the rest
[12:13] <Keybuk> there's also the use case: SUBSYSTEM=="usb_device", PROGRAM="/sbin/grepmap --udev --file=/etc/udev/libsane.usermap", GROUP="plugdev"
[12:14] <pitti> Keybuk: I don't think we'll need it for sane
[12:14] <Keybuk> pitti: no?
[12:14] <pitti> but it's good to have it as a backup
[12:14] <pitti> Mithrandir merged the package yesterday, and IIRC the udev rules are generated in debian/rules
[12:14] <Keybuk> janimo: 15 certainly updates it to driver-core
[12:14] <Keybuk> but not modalias yet
[12:16] <Mithrandir> I haven't uploaded it yet, iirc
[12:17] <pitti> no, we both need the new udev (hint, hint)
[12:17] <Keybuk> I guess infinity hasn't uploaded lrm or -meta for 15 yet then?
[12:18] <pitti> yay long dependency chains :)
[12:18] <Keybuk> I gave him signed ready-to-upload binaries on Monday, in case he was ready yesterday while I was away
[12:18] <Keybuk> s/binaries/sources/, s/empty cup/coffee/
[12:18] <Kamion> Keybuk: no, he's doing final lrm testing
[12:41] <janimo> ogra, ping
[12:41] <ogra> janimo, pong
[12:42] <janimo> does hwdb-client use gnome stuff besides gtk?
[12:42] <ogra> yup
[12:42] <janimo> I'm thinking if it could be used with xfce
[12:42] <ogra> but i planned to change that ...
[12:42] <janimo> that would be nice
[12:42] <ogra> it uses the gnome_sound_play function for the sound test
[12:42] <janimo> aha
[12:42] <janimo> maybe just an aplay or something would do?
[12:43] <ogra> might also be other stuff in there, havent visited the code for some time
[12:43] <ogra> i'll try to fix that for dapper
[12:43] <ogra> fabbione, eh ? 
[12:43] <janimo> ok, thanks
[12:43] <ogra> fabbione, if you dont have edubuntu-artwork installed that cant be ....
[12:44] <janimo> ogra, oh btw that focus bug with the next button in hwdb-client is it  a gtk bug?
[12:44] <ogra> yup
[12:44] <janimo> needing to click outside of the button
[12:44] <ogra> it only happens on some desktops ...
[12:44] <janimo> is it _that_ hard to fix? I'd have thought that's elementary GUI widget foo :)
[12:44] <ogra> i have no idea why ... (happens on 2 of 5 systems i have here)
[12:44] <janimo> feature I mean
[12:45] <janimo> mine too
[12:45] <janimo> do you know if there's a gtk bug filed?
[12:45] <ogra> yes, it is that hard to fix, since its not reliable reproducable
[12:45] <janimo> k, thanks
[12:45] <janimo> does it happen witrh gnome on your systems?
[12:45] <ogra> i'm not really sure its a gtk bug, it might be a input bug, a X bug or even something else ...
[12:46] <ogra> yes
[12:46] <ogra> i have gnome on all systems here
[12:46] <janimo> well good thing it's not a gtk bug then
[12:46] <ogra> i dont know ...
[12:46] <ogra> it might or might not be one ...
[12:46] <janimo> ok
[12:47] <ogra> or it might be caused by combinations of gtk and the input or gtk and the graphics driver ...
[12:47] <janimo> if hwdb-client is not among your top prios I may take a look at it too sometime
[12:47] <ogra> i'd have solved it already if it would be that easy
[12:48] <janimo> maybe there should be a hwdb-client-client app, which asks you whether the next button works, and reports back with X.org info :)
[12:48] <ogra> i promised zyga that i'd put up a bzr archive of it during the week, pleas use that one ... i'll ping if its there
[12:48] <janimo> great
[12:53] <viviersf> soz for the OT
[12:53] <viviersf> but does any1 have mary janes at hbd no here plz
[12:56] <fabbione> ogra: seriously.. i just did a standard dapper install
[01:02] <siretart> elmo: please sync helix-player from unstable, ok to override ubuntu changes. thanks
[01:03] <sivang_away> fabbione: flight 1?
[01:05] <dholbach> hi carlos 
[01:05] <dholbach> hi carstenh :)
[01:05] <carlos> dholbach, hi
[01:05] <dholbach> carlos: how are you?
[01:05] <carlos> dholbach, fine, thanks
[01:05] <carlos> and you? 
[01:05] <dholbach> cool :)
[01:05] <carlos> dholbach, I don't see your question about launchpad's email at #launchpad.... :-P
[01:05] <dholbach> me too, just a bit tired :)
[01:06] <dholbach> argharghargharghargh :)
[01:06] <fabbione> sivang_away: no. today netinstall
[01:06] <pitti> Hi Yagisan 
[01:07] <sivang_away> fabbione: k
[01:07] <Yagisan> G'day pitti !
[01:08] <dholbach> mdke: right
[01:08] <carstenh> hi daniel, hi pitti :)
[01:09] <Yagisan> how have you been pitti ? I've been busy - My son was born on the 18th, so I have chronic lack of sleep.
[01:09] <pitti> Hi carstenh 
[01:09] <pitti> Yagisan: contratulations to your son!
[01:09] <pitti> Yagisan: I'm still busy with fixing Ubuntu ;)
[01:10] <mdke> is it intentional that the web browser button on the top panel opens firefox, rather than the defaul browser as set in preferences->preferred applications?
[01:10] <mdke> defaul/default
[01:10] <Yagisan> pitti: thanks, he was huge. 3.6kg
[01:11] <mdke> congrats Yagisan :)
[01:11] <pitti> wow :)
[01:11] <pitti> Yagisan: so the poor Windows machines out there are a little safer for now? :)
[01:11] <pitti> Yagisan: when you spend time with your son instead of cracking Win machines
[01:12] <Yagisan> pitti: sadly, they are safer, for now. But I now have two apprentices in training :)
[01:13] <Yagisan> sivang_away: My day job
[01:14] <sivang_away> oh, lol
[01:16] <\sh> Yagisan: congrats to your new duties :) 
[01:17] <Yagisan> thanks \sh :)
[01:18] <\sh> Yagisan: where are the photos :) and where is the cigar for all ubuntu devs? ;)
[01:18] <jordi> Yagisan: ditto, congrats for that!
[01:18] <jordi> \sh: Ubuntu is officially a smoke free area!
[01:19] <Yagisan> \sh I haven't scanned the photos yet. I don't smoke, so sorry - no cigar
[01:20] <\sh> jordi: hmmm...you should come to germany...last time when the baby of my colleague was born he just spread a bunch of nice cuban cigars for everybody :) it's somehow a tradition
[01:22] <pitti> jbailey: the new langpacks and the langpack-locales are ready for upload
[01:23] <pitti> jbailey: I guess I should wait for the new belocs-enhanced glibc?
[01:23] <fabbione> seb128, dholbach: glibmm2.4 is FTBFS
[01:23] <\sh> infinity / lamont: can you have a look on debtags-edit 1.1.2...it was given back to amd64/i386/ppc but only ppc had been build
[01:23] <jbailey> pitti: Yes, I'm slightly lagged there, but I'll work on that this morning.
[01:23] <dholbach> fabbione: looking
[01:23] <jbailey> infinity: Around?
[01:23] <fabbione> hey jbailey 
[01:24] <fabbione> jbailey: theoretically from today you can install directly on LVM (ppc)
[01:24] <pitti> jbailey: oh, good morning :) I didn't expect you to be awake already
[01:24] <fabbione> it's the worst code ever, but it works just fine :)
[01:24] <pitti> oh, it's well past noon - time for lunch :)
[01:24] <jbailey> fabbione: Yay!
[01:24] <dholbach> fabbione: argargarg
[01:24] <jbailey> pitti: My core hours start about 20 minutes ago.  I don't hop on IRC first thing, I usually do upgrades and make a pass through email first. =)
[01:25] <fabbione> dholbach: i still blame the desktop team :P
[01:25] <dholbach> excellent :)
[01:32] <jbailey> dholbach: You know you're successful when people start blaming you rather than ignoring you? =)
[01:33] <dholbach> jbailey: that's what i thought too - that's more publicity (and thrilling opportunities for involvement) in the *bling* DESKTOP! TEAM! *bling*
[01:36] <dholbach> fabbione: fix uploaded - merci
[01:38] <jordi> jdub: ping
[01:38] <dholbach> Kamion: hmm, the mails contained specific information on both of the teams - that's why i split them up
[01:40] <dholbach> Kamion: but if you decide to reject the mail, i accept your decision
[01:40] <tepsipakki> just tried daily netinstall, but it still won't install dapper? (preseeded "d-i mirror/suite string dapper")
[01:40] <tepsipakki> instead it installs breezy
[01:41] <mdke> the new desktop menu organisation makes no distinction in the System->Admin submenu between programs (eg network-admin) which require admin privileges, and those which don't (e.g. system monitor). I preferred the old distinction with system tools in the applications menu :(
[01:46] <tepsipakki> hold on, I think I made a mistake..
[02:12] <tepsipakki> I was on crack.. somehow the netboot still loaded breezy. dapper works fine ;) I noticed that hotplug discovers interfaces in the "correct" order (wired before wireless)
[02:12] <tepsipakki> which is nice
[02:36] <HiddenWolf> is it design or a bug in ubuntu.com that the planet button only shows up when you're on the wiki?
[02:43] <mdke> HiddenWolf, bit of both I think
[02:44] <mdke> actually, more design
[02:44] <siretart> could anyone please NEW libxml++2.6? I need it for c2a transition of another library package
[02:44] <seb128> dholbach: for you :)
[02:45] <dholbach> seb128: he uploaded it already
[02:45] <seb128> oh, k
[02:45] <pitti> Kamion: I did the changes to the locales package and langpacks, i. e. locales are now shipped in langpacks, and the 'locales' package uses /var/lib/supported.d; is there anything I need to do to unbreak the installer?
[02:46] <siretart> elmo: please sync xmltv from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes
[02:46] <seb128> mdke: feel free to join #ubuntu-desktop for discuss issue like your epiphany feature about focus on new tab :)
[02:47] <lamont> ogra: livefs build is now scheduled (missed one spot), but it doesn't build atm
[02:47] <mdke> seb128, ah cool thanks
[02:51] <jbailey> Kamion: When you're counting your merge stats, how do I mark one as not-mergable from Debian?
[02:52] <jbailey> Kamion: lkh doesn't share a source between the two.
[02:54] <Kamion> jbailey: I just did a bugzilla search, nothing special
[02:55] <Kamion> jbailey: is it possible to make the version number higher?
[02:55] <Kamion> jbailey: failing that you'll have to talk to Keybuk
[02:55] <Keybuk> mark the bug RESOLVED INVALID
[02:55] <Kamion> pitti: I'll have a look at it later; the installer will break today anyway
[02:55] <Keybuk> then ask elmo to blacklist it from the sync process
[02:58] <jbailey> Kamion, Keybuk: Thanks.
[03:00] <ptlo> neuralis 'lo
[03:01] <pitti> lamont-away: any idea why cyrus21-imapd does not build on hppa? it's the only package/arch that still keeps ucd-snmp in main
[03:03] <jbailey> Riddell: Thanks for grabbing the cdbs merge.  I'll close 19134 for you.
[03:03] <Mithrandir> pitti: uhm, what do I put in "source code review" for bootchart?
[03:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: main inclusion report?
[03:04] <Mithrandir> yes
[03:04] <Mithrandir> sorry for not giving you context.
[03:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, don't worry too much about it; the MainInclusionReportTemplate just covers all cases
[03:04] <Mithrandir> so just remove that?
[03:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: for new libs etc. it makes much sense, e. g. I discovered some buffer overflows in libgpod
[03:04] <siretart> elmo: please sync xpdf from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes
[03:05] <pitti> Mithrandir: since bootchart is not really security critical, feel free to remove it
[03:05] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
[03:05] <pitti> Mithrandir: I usually look at unprotected mallocs, array out-of-bounds, sprintf()s, and the like - the usual suspects
[03:05] <pitti> Mithrandir: but it's only important for libs/apps that deal with user dat
[03:05] <pitti> a
[03:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: yeah, though, bootchart is a java app which renders data, and a set of shell scripts, so no many buffer overflows.
[03:06] <pitti> hehe
[03:34] <ogra> meh, where is udev ... all other intresting parts are uploaded ... :/
[03:35] <fabbione> ogra: where are the patches?
[03:35] <ogra> fabbione, i thought Keybuk was ready already
[03:35] <ogra> fabbione, what was the thing with edubuntu GDM theme ? 
[03:36] <fabbione> ogra: he probably is and he is going to upload as soon as you will go to sleep ;)
[03:36] <fabbione> ogra: dunno.. installed dapper and got that one
[03:36] <ogra> pfft ....
[03:36] <fabbione> no kidding
[03:36] <infinity> udev is ready, It'll get uploaded when we're pretty sure the world is ready to change to the new kernel.
[03:36] <fabbione> i didn't investigate it yes
[03:36] <ogra> so around the time you stand up ? 
[03:36] <infinity> (ie: once LRM has built, etc)
[03:37] <ogra> yay
[03:58] <tashiro> Does anyone know when will libgnomevfs 2.13.2 will enter drapper?
[03:59] <HiddenWolf> tashiro: dapper!
[03:59] <tashiro> Or dapper the drunken duck
[04:09] <doko> viviersf: which bug?
[04:19] <WaterSevenUb> jbailey, let me know if you need clarification on this http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18050
[04:20] <jbailey> dholbach: There?
[04:21] <dholbach> jbailey: yes
[04:22] <jbailey> dholbach: 18050 is ubuntu-docs breakage with languages.  Would you mind taking a look at it?
[04:22] <dholbach> yes, can you CC me on it?
[04:22] <dholbach> because i was just about to go for a dogwalk :)
[04:22] <jbailey> dholbach: I was hoping to put you in the assigned field. =)
[04:23] <dholbach> go ahead
[04:23] <jbailey> Enjoy your walk, we can chat when you're back. =)
[04:23] <seb128> I'm sure than dholbach has a dog only to get a pretext for all those walks he does in the day :)
[04:23] <jbailey> seb128: Sure.  It's like I thought of taking up spoking at UBZ so I could get out of the basement.
[04:23] <jbailey> smoking, rather.
[04:24] <dholbach> seb128: i'm happy to get out more often because of the dog :)
[04:24] <sivang_away> well, it's good enough to do that. I bet it can help you be more productive
[04:25] <jbailey> dholbach: Done, thanks.
[04:26] <WaterSevenUb> jbailey, thx.
[04:26] <jbailey> WaterSevenUb: =)
[04:30] <Kamion> jbailey: you don't have to know the e-mail addresses in bugzilla either; just a substring will do
[04:30] <Kamion> if it's ambiguous it'll prompt you
[04:31] <Kamion> (substring of name <email> that is)
[04:31] <jbailey> Kamion: Ah, neat.  Thanks.
[04:32] <jbailey> So failing everything I can type "ubuntu.com" and get a list to choose from. =)
[04:47] <Seveas> jbailey, evil :)
[04:47] <jbailey> JaneW: Have you been spreading rumours about me again?
[04:48] <JaneW> jbailey: perhaps...
[04:56] <siretart> elmo: please sync ire, xine-ui, superkaramba and zorp, all from from unstable, overringing ubuntu changes. thanks
[04:57] <sivang_away> JaneW: did you get my PM ?
[04:58] <\sh> siretart: stop superkaramba
[04:58] <\sh> siretart: please discuss with riddell if he is ok with it...
[05:19] <ogra> Kamion, any idea how the new pcmciautils cope with ndiswrapper based cards ? 
[05:23] <zyga> is the dapper backup solution anywhere off the ground?
[05:24] <siretart> zyga: you mean sbackup?
[05:26] <ogra> infinity, ping
[05:26] <ogra> infinity, no ndiswrapper in l-r-m for amd64 ? :/
[05:27] <ogra> oh, infinity unping ... its supposed to be in linux-image iirc ...
[05:27] <zyga> siretart: probably, I mean the gui for  some existing backup tool
[05:27] <ogra> BenC, ^^^ ?
[05:28] <BenC> ndiswrapper is in the kernel
[05:28] <ogra> hmm, ndiswrapper utils isnt installable here ...
[05:28] <ogra> depends on ndiswrapper-modules-1.5 ...
[05:29] <BenC> sounds like something else needs to be updated for kernel version
[05:29] <siretart> l-r-m didn't update madwifi?
[05:29] <ogra> yup
[05:29] <BenC> can you track it down and see where it is?
[05:30] <jdub> ooh, l-r-m for 2.6.15
[05:30] <ogra> looks like Keybuk did the last upload, i'll ask him
[05:30] <jdub> stupid quebecistani laptop requires it :-|
[05:30] <Keybuk> ogra: I only made editorial changes
[05:30] <ogra> jdub, i think you should wait for udev too :)
[05:30] <Kamion> ogra: not offhand
[05:30] <ogra> oki
[05:31] <ogra> Kamion, thanks will test as soon as i can ... 
[05:31] <jdub> oh man
[05:31] <jdub> someone added a first startup druid to rhythmbox
[05:31] <ogra> EEEK
[05:32] <Robot101> thats been there ages
[05:32] <Treenaks> you've just not started it for the first time in ages ;)
[05:32] <ogra> (for ages)
[05:33] <jdub> yeah
[05:33] <jdub> stupid new laptop fascism
[05:33] <jdub> meanwhile, that druid is a criminal offense
[05:33] <ogra> heh
[05:34] <Amaranth> muine does it too
[05:34] <HiddenWolf> it's a rather accepted practise for music players.
[05:35] <jdub> it's one step short of amarok's "mysql or sqlite?" question
[05:35] <Robot101> the UI has enough other gash in it, the druid is the least of the problems
[05:35] <jdub> breakfast time though :)
[05:36] <Robot101> like the right click menu in the list of playlists. can you make a playlist? no. you can add music to your library. how useful.
[05:36] <HiddenWolf> jdub, you're kidding on the mysql question, I hope...
[05:36] <jdub> HiddenWolf: nup
[05:36] <HiddenWolf> jdub: *shocked*
[05:36] <Robot101> HiddenWolf: amarok lets you choose like "gstreamer, MAS, NAS, ALSA, OSS, ALSA, esound..." :P
[05:37] <HiddenWolf> Robot101: shudder!
[05:37] <Robot101> it's a feature!
[05:37] <ogra> a "mysql or sqlite?" question ? whats that ?
[05:37] <Kamion> I have to say I'm not sure our "esound! no, polypaudio! no, esound! no, ALSA!" flip-flopping on defaults is much less confusing sometimes :P
[05:37] <HiddenWolf> ogra: should I store your music this way, or that.
[05:37] <ogra> eeek
[05:38] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, even windows can't make the sound sub-system easy, Don't sweat it.
[05:38] <ogra> Kamion, but the gui tool should just jump on the running bit here :)
[05:38] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, took more work to get my audigy to play under winxp than ubuntu, I swear. :)
[05:42] <ogra> BenC, re ensidwrapper, the prob is the provides line in linux-image-2.6.15-5-amd64-k8, it refers to ndiswrapper-modules-1.1, ndiswrapper-modules-1.5 is recent
[05:46] <dholbach> did anybody report that cpu freq scaling is broken on 2.6.15-5-amd64-k8 already?
[05:47] <mvo> BenC: did you got my message about the "failed to download firmware" for the 76c503 driver in 2.6.15-5?
[05:51] <BenC> ogra: ah, so I need to fix it, ok
[05:51] <BenC> mvo: new udev fixes that
[05:52] <BenC> mvo: firmware location changed
[05:56] <dholbach> BenC: any idea about the cpu freq stuff, or was that, what udev changes related to?
[05:56] <BenC> dholbach: what cpu freq stuff?
[05:57] <dholbach> BenC: cpu frequency scaling doesnt work with 2.6.15-5-amd64-k8 any more
[05:57] <mjg59> dholbach: Works fine here
[05:57] <dholbach> hrm
[05:57] <mjg59> Though this is amd64-generic
[05:57] <mjg59> model name      : AMD Turion(tm) 64 Mobile ML-28
[05:57] <mjg59> cpu MHz         : 798.051
[05:58] <BenC> if it works on -generic, let me know so I can compare config's
[05:58] <BenC> they should be matching though
[05:58] <dholbach> will do
[05:59] <xhaker> modprobe -Q option got deprecated?
[05:59] <xhaker> modprobe: unrecognized option `--help' :)
[05:59] <Keybuk> xhaker: it was an Ubuntu patch, and we stopped using it
[06:00] <xhaker> then just upload a new powernowd package it relies on it
[06:00] <xhaker> i mean.. if it's in the plans
[06:00] <xhaker> don't wanna sound demanding
[06:02] <Keybuk> it doesn't seem to on my machine?
[06:02] <xhaker> just noticed hotplug needs the same love :P
[06:03] <ogra> Keybuk, 
[06:03] <ogra> if [ "x$VERBOSE" = "xno" ] ; then
[06:03] <ogra>         MODPROBE_OPTIONS="$MODPROBE_OPTIONS -Q"
[06:03] <ogra>         export MODPROBE_OPTIONS
[06:03] <ogra> fi
[06:03] <xhaker> yeh
[06:03] <xhaker> remove that
[06:03] <xhaker> :P
[06:03] <Keybuk> oh eww
[06:03] <ogra> from powernowd init
[06:03] <Keybuk> I missed that
[06:03] <Keybuk> I shall put the patch back then :)
[06:04] <ogra> xhaker, good catch, thanks :)
[06:04] <xhaker> in hotplug too :P maybe hotplug is not that important since you're going to replace all by udev
[06:04] <Keybuk> yeah, I should probably make udev use it
[06:04] <ogra> xhaker, hotplug might not survive the week :)
[06:04] <xhaker> yeh.. i know :P
[06:04] <ogra> depending on bugs :)
[06:04] <xhaker> i'll just "patch" it myself
[06:04] <xhaker> scott is working on udev right?
[06:05] <ogra> its done afaik .... just waiting on the pieces it depends on
[06:05] <xhaker> Keybuk, you're going to put -Q back? or edit the packages that depend on that option?
[06:05] <xhaker> ogra, 
[06:05] <xhaker> btw..
[06:06] <xhaker> but this i think you already know
[06:06] <xhaker> in firmware.agent of the hotplug package the should be added a new location for the firmware /lib/firmware/$(uname -r)
[06:07] <Keybuk> xhaker: put -Q back
[06:07] <ogra> i'm luckily not in charge of this :)
[06:07] <xhaker> of course, again... the new udev  will have it and i don't think you'll upload any hotplug package before :P
[06:07] <xhaker> hehe
[06:07] <Keybuk> yeah, there's no plans to update hotplug
[06:08] <xhaker> i had to figure it out without my wireless how to make it load the firmwares, grr
[06:08] <xhaker> :P
[06:09] <Keybuk> copy them into /lib/firmware
[06:10] <xhaker> i've already said i fixed hotplug.. it now searches in /lib/firmware/$(uname -r) too
[06:10] <xhaker> correction: i fixed that bit
[06:10] <xhaker> lol
[06:12] <WebWiz> what the heck is going on in #ubuntu
[06:13] <xhaker> lamers
[06:13] <WebWiz> heh, ubuntu is getting too popular now when we get people like that in there :)
[06:15] <dholbach> BenC: false alarm, after the change to the powernowd init script it was happy
[06:15] <xhaker> dholbach, you thought it was the kernel?
[06:15] <dholbach> xhaker: yeah, it was the only change i remembered
[06:16] <sivang> hmm, Deer Park doesn't offer me to use evince to open a pdf, but gpdf which crashes. nice
[06:16] <BenC> dholbach: cool
[06:17] <ogra> how do i make them duplicates of bugzills bugs grr
[06:17] <dholbach> ogra: just add a "remove watch"
[06:17] <dholbach> ogra: just add a "remote watch"
[06:17] <ogra> dholbach, just add a "remote watch" ?
[06:17] <ogra> dholbach, just add a "remote watch" ?
[06:18] <ogra> will do :)
[06:18] <dholbach> ogra: i typed it wrong in the first attempt
[06:18] <ogra> but the first would be my preferred option :P
[06:18] <ogra> it wont get fixed anyway :)
[06:20] <sivang> ogra: hehe, what bugs are those?
[06:26] <dholbach> hrm, now sounds doesnt work no more
[06:26] <ogra> the fun of development releases
[06:27] <ogra> sivang, search for beard and xscreensaver in bugzilla
[06:28] <dholbach> snd-via82xx was just not loaded
[06:28] <dholbach> hrm
[06:29] <slomo> BenC: want some bugreports for 2.6.15 on ppc? evdev and genrtc should be loaded by default... other than that linux-headers is missing asm/highmem.h (which is included by linux/highmem.h)... some modules ftbfs because of that outside the kernel tree... everything else is perfect :)
[06:32] <HiddenWolf> linux + kernel + perfect in one sentence
[06:33] <ogra> slomo, module loading is done by hotplug/udev ...
[06:37] <slomo> ogra: even for fundamental stuff like rtc? the only rtc related things in /etc/udev are symlinking and permission setting imho
[06:38] <ogra> slomo, udev for *everything* in the future as i understand it
[06:38] <BenC> slomo: so evdev and genrtc should be built-in?
[06:38] <BenC> slomo: highmem.h I  have a fix for in -6.8
[06:39] <Kamion> BenC: I was almost going to throw bricks in your direction for modularising ext2 on me, but I've decided to just convert d-i to initramfs instead
[06:39] <slomo> BenC: at least genrtc must be in, otherwise hwclock fails... for evdev... it was in or at least loaded by default in the past... it is needed for pbbuttonsd
[06:39] <BenC> I know that something loads rtc on ppc64
[06:40] <BenC> Kamion: had to because of mbcache module ended up being needed in more than one udeb
[06:40] <Kamion> BenC: (that's usually solved by something like the fs-common-modules hack on powerpc)
[06:40] <Kamion> though I'm kind of surprised that *modularising* something fixed that - it's normally the other way round
[06:41] <Kamion> hmm, interesting, grub builds -m64 on amd64 now
[06:41] <BenC> mbcache is a funny thing
[06:41] <BenC> it's not an option that can be configured during config, it's set based on ext3/ext2 and some of it's attribute options
[06:41] <xhaker> BenC, i need you to see something.. maybe you'll incorporate this patch in your new kernels :P
[06:41] <xhaker> http://five.pairlist.net/pipermail/linux-laptop/2005-June/001543.html
[06:42] <xhaker> read where it says Patch to Kernel for SuSe 9.3
[06:42] <xhaker> only the point 1)
[06:43] <Mithrandir> doko: why have you changed ia32-libs to not put the .so for libdb-4.2 in ia32-libs-dev ?
[06:43] <xhaker> i can access my battery info.. and the other stuff.. but in the logs.. there is a message about a missing EC and ibm_acpi refuses to load then..
[06:44] <BenC> xhaker: that patch is so old, I doubt it will even apply
[06:44] <mjg59> xhaker: ibm_acpi should refuse to load
[06:45] <BenC> xhaker: have you even tried dapper kernel?
[06:45] <mjg59> xhaker: That's really not the right approach, in any case
[06:45] <xhaker> i'm using 2.6.15-5 now
[06:45] <mjg59> xhaker: What hardware is it?
[06:45] <ogra> jdub, is there a way we can de-uglify the dapper clearlooks theme ? it looks horrible on 16bit displays with all theye ugly gradients
[06:46] <xhaker> i was hopping this would fix a bug i have always
[06:46] <xhaker> speedstep_centrino doesn't load.. says the device is busy.. and acpi_cpufreq is loaded instead
[06:46] <xhaker> and i have a centrino dothan
[06:47] <mjg59> xhaker: Again, what hardware is this?
[06:47] <xhaker> acer laptop
[06:47] <mjg59> xhaker: So why would you expect ibm_acpi to load?
[06:47] <xhaker> sorry.. i thought it would apply to all "ibm" pc's
[06:48] <mvo> jdub: you started that "make language-selecotr" more usefull spec, could you please (briefly) add some of your ideas? it's a bit bare-bone right now :)
[06:48] <mjg59> No, it applies to IBM laptop
[06:48] <mjg59> s
[06:48] <xhaker> and that ec not found error kinda tricked me
[06:48] <mjg59> If you have working battery status, you don't need any acpi patches
[06:48] <mjg59> Are you sure you get "Device is busy"?
[06:48] <Kamion> configure: error: GRUB requires a working absolute objcopy; upgrade your binutils
[06:48] <Kamion> d'oh
[06:49] <Kamion> ah, works fine if I drop back to -m32
[06:50] <mjg59> Kamion: Hmm. How does grub work if built as a 64-bit application?
[06:50] <xhaker> mjg59, ill get back tu you the right line
[06:50] <Kamion> mjg59: I have no idea
[06:50] <mjg59> Presumably it still has to build 16-bit code along the way
[06:50] <Kinnison> k
[06:50] <Kinnison> urgh, w/w, sorry
[06:50] <Kamion> mjg59: did it ever? stage1 is assembly ...
[06:51] <Kamion> (and has .code16)
[06:51] <xhaker> mjg59, FATAL: Error inserting speedstep_centrino (/lib/modules/2.6.15-5-686/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/speedstep-centrino.ko): Device or resource busy
[06:51] <Kamion> and the stage2 bootstrap to protected mode is assembly too
[06:51] <mjg59> Kamion: Ah, that would probably do it
[06:51] <xhaker> powernowd init script trigger this
[06:51] <mjg59> xhaker: If acpi-cpufreq is loaded already, then you'll get that error
[06:51] <Kamion> still, I'll just drop it back to 32-bit for now, I can't be bothered dealing with binutils madness
[06:52] <xhaker> the thing is.. it never loads speedstep centrino
[06:52] <xhaker> i filed a bug for this in hoary already
[06:52] <xhaker> the answer was some fixes to the check-something.sh script
[06:52] <xhaker> and i tested that script and it return speedstep  centrino
[06:53] <xhaker> i guess my bios is ****ed up
[06:53] <ogra> whose isnt ? 
[06:53] <ogra> :)
[06:54] <xhaker> :)
[06:54] <doko> Mithrandir: I didn't add it at all, the runtime library was just needed for OOo2
[06:55] <rob^^^> ps: reading over the Edubuntu meeting logs, did anyone ponder the possibility of JaneW's disconnect being DHCP related?
[06:55] <rob^^^> perhaps so an upstream provider could force all clients to renew to avoid old and broken dhcp clients?
[06:56] <Mithrandir> doko: +mv debian/ia32-libs-dev/$(ROOT)/usr/lib$(SUFFIX)/libdb-*.so debian/ia32-libs/$(ROOT)/usr/lib$(SUFFIX)/
[06:56] <Mithrandir> doko: from http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/ia32-libs/ia32-libs_ubuntu.patch
[06:56] <Mithrandir> doko: I wondered why
[07:00] <doko> Mithrandir: libdb-*.so is the soname
[07:03] <Mithrandir> doko: yes, but that still doesn't answer the question "why".
[07:05] <doko> Mithrandir: why? because I do not want to install the -dev package to dlopen a library
[07:06] <ogra> seb128, if i iconify windows, the black frame without content stays about a second on my desktop, is this intended behavior ? 
[07:07] <ogra> feels a bit sluggish
[07:08] <seb128> not, seems to be xorg bug
[07:08] <ogra> ah, ok
[07:08] <jdon1> quick question, what's the difference between dsa/rsa keys in SSH?
[07:08] <ogra> also the animation in metacity seems to be gone ...
[07:08] <Diziet> jdon1: Shouldn't you be asking in a support channel ?
[07:09] <segfault> boo
[07:09] <jdon1> Diziet: couldn't get a good answer; thought I'd get a better answer here
[07:09] <Diziet> jdon1: I see.
[07:10] <ogra> but that changes the intention of the channel, or the support character of the question :)
[07:11] <Kamion> #ubuntu-devel isn't an escalated support channel
[07:11] <jdon1> sorry; I just thought you guys would use SSH keys quite regularly....
[07:11] <jdon1> that's the only reason I asked here
[07:11] <Kamion> I'm afraid we have to be reasonably hard-arsed about this otherwise the channel's usefulness is degraded
[07:11] <Kamion> I'm happy to help you in /query
[07:12] <ogra> err s/changes/doesnt change/
[07:15] <lamont>  20186 is a blocker for livecds.  kthxbye
[07:18] <ogra> err, thats trivial ? 
[07:19] <fabbione> lamont: also for dapper install :)
[07:20] <lamont> ogra: assuming that the external api as used didn't change with the soname change...
[07:20] <fabbione> lamont: it should be just a rebuild
[07:20] <lamont> fabbione: well, not necessarily server installs... :-)
[07:20] <lamont> build-depends: libsnmp5-d4ev
[07:20] <lamont> --> nope
[07:21] <fabbione> lamont: net-snmp had a ABI breakage of somekind that had no soname change
[07:21] <fabbione> libsnp9-dev is an artifact afaik
[07:22] <lamont> fabbione: in any case, it'll need a new upload
[07:22] <fabbione> yup
[07:24] <lamont> well, once my testbuild finishes, that is.
[07:39] <ogra> ogra@honk:~/seeds/edubuntu/dapper $ bzr push
[07:39] <ogra> Using saved location: sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/seeds.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/seeds/dapper
[07:39] <ogra> bzr: ERROR: No WorkingTree exists for {'base': 'sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/seeds.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/seeds/dapper'}(base).
[07:40] <ogra> why do only i have probs ... and why is it a different error everytime ...
[07:41] <ogra> *sigh*
[07:41] <Kamion> asking on #bzr for help has a better chance of finding people who know what they're talking about than asking here ...
[07:47] <ogra> err...
[07:47] <ogra> seems it worked anyway ....
[08:02] <Keybuk> ... mdz made me do it
[08:03] <ogra> made you do what ? 
[08:05] <janimo> elmo, please sync/override xfce4-toys, thank you
[08:06] <elmo> xfce4-toys |    4.2.3-1 | dapper/universe | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[08:06] <janimo> hmm
[08:06] <janimo> elmothanks, sorry for the noise then
[08:06] <Kamion> ogra: do you have an edubuntu-meta upload pending, or can I do one?
[08:07] <ogra> Kamion, just running update :)
[08:07] <ogra> give it 1 min ..
[08:09] <Kamion> ogra: if you're already doing one, please wait
[08:09] <ogra> ok
[08:09] <Kamion> (i.e. rm -rf, unpack old version, and run update again when I've done this commit)
[08:09] <ogra> ok
[08:14] <pvanhoof> that's cool guys.. Hoary to Dapper upgrade without a glitch
[08:15] <pvanhoof> thanks for making this a perfect upgrade procedure
[08:15] <Treenaks> pvanhoof: Dapper hoor, nu al dapper ;)
[08:15] <pvanhoof> and as a developer, I'm more used to having upgrade troubles. I think this must be one of the first times I successfully upgraded without any human intervention
[08:15] <pvanhoof> including vmware etc etc
[08:16] <Kamion> pvanhoof: is about to change ;-)
[08:16] <pvanhoof> Treenaks, jep, als als het zo goed blijft lopen volgen er nog systemen :)
[08:16] <pvanhoof> Kamion, are you guys going to fuck it up just like you guys fucked up breezy? :-) again? :)
[08:16] <pvanhoof> put it in the topic will yha. That way I can decide when I apt-get upgrade ;-)
[08:17] <Kamion> pvanhoof: it's already gone to ubuntu-devel-announce@
[08:17] <elmo> Mithrandir: ?
[08:17] <Kamion> big kernel/udev upgrade's about to land
[08:17] <pvanhoof> it's okay if my desktop is unstable and bleeding edge etc etc .. but I do need some basic stuff working. Like X :)
[08:17] <Kamion> how about booting? ;-)
[08:17] <ogra> hehe
[08:17] <pvanhoof> lol. booting is often important :)
[08:17] <pvanhoof> it's a laptop and I can't always make sure it has forever power 
[08:17] <pvanhoof> :D
[08:18] <Keybuk> bah
[08:18] <Keybuk> if I can boot a machine by hand, anyone can
[08:18] <pvanhoof> Kamion, well, I know enough about kernels to get a custom/old one up and running :)
[08:19] <Kamion> ogra: ok, go for it
[08:20] <pvanhoof> and I'm going into holiday for three weeks after this week. It's just that, after those three weeks (1st of january) I'm likely going to do a C/C++ project for a customer. I'd like to have a proper environment by then :)
[08:20] <Kamion> was removing hotplug from all the seeds
[08:20] <ogra> Kamion, running
[08:20] <Kamion> as usual, we recommend the stable release if you must have something that works
[08:21] <pvanhoof> does somebody know whether or not support for Xen is planned (short term planning)?
[08:21] <Kamion> comments of the form "your development release broke my production system" will meet with relatively little sympathy :-), although we will of course be interested in fixing the bugs
[08:21] <ogra> pvanhoof, not for dapper
[08:21] <Keybuk> elmo: talking of which, please remove hotplug from the archive, then burn it
[08:22] <pvanhoof> ogra, the release after dapper?
[08:22] <elmo> ** multiseat has an unsatisfied dependency on i386: hotplug
[08:22] <elmo> ** udev has an unsatisfied dependency on i386: hotplug (>= 0.0.20040329-16)
[08:22] <elmo> ** ubuntu-minimal has an unsatisfied dependency on i386: hotplug
[08:22] <Kamion> I just typoed it "hogplut" here
[08:22] <ogra> oh, multiseat
[08:24] <Kamion> elmo: udev and ubuntu-minimal are being fixed, but I don't think anyone's on multiseat yet
[08:27] <pvanhoof> doom3 also works, so I guess flgrx and stuff like that also got upgrade properly
[08:27] <pvanhoof> sounds to good to be true
[08:27] <pvanhoof> anyway, thanks for all that
[08:27] <elmo> lamont/infinity: around?
[08:27] <elmo> lamont/infinity: trustedqsl (sic, qsl not sql) is an inf looper
[08:27] <elmo> it's taken out half of the debian arches and probably ours too, judging by the lack of binaries in the archive
[08:29] <Kamion> pvanhoof: the kernel hasn't been upgraded since breezy yet ... until just now
[08:29] <Kamion> hence working lrm
[08:29] <pvanhoof> Kamion, ah ic ;). So no dist upgrade for a few days now
[08:29] <Kamion> indeed
[08:29] <pvanhoof> :P
[08:29] <pvanhoof> okay
[08:30] <pvanhoof> else I can nolonger play doom3
[08:30] <ogra> ndiswrapper wil break until the next linux-image upload ...
[08:31] <mjg59> Kamion: Which ones are we getting now?
[08:31] <Kamion> mjg59: 2.6.15-5
[08:31] <mjg59> Ok
[08:31] <Kamion> as opposed to 2.6.12
[08:31] <mdz> mjg59: (as default)
[08:32] <mjg59> Suspend will be broken until -6
[08:32] <ogra> yay for breakage
[08:32] <\sh> mjg59: tell me now that sk98lin will also break?
[08:33] <mjg59> \sh: Oh, possibly
[08:33] <mjg59> Or it might work better than before
[08:33] <mjg59> Who knows? :)
[08:33] <mjg59> But seriously, 2.6.15 is looking good
[08:33] <ogra> yup, already ...
[08:34] <\sh> mjg59: is the sky2 driver at least working now, or is it just a bitch as the last time...(only working for a few sec)?
[08:34] <mdz> except for both still having the bug which breaks sound on my desktop, and breaking the workaround for it (irqpoll), it seems mostly OK
[08:34] <ogra> but lets see how it breaks hand in hand with Keybuks udev :)
[08:34] <mdz> oh, and completely breaking suspend on my laptop
[08:34] <mdz> mjg59: is there anything I can do to form a useful bug report about that btw/
[08:34] <mdz> ?
[08:34] <mjg59> \sh: It should be better than it was
[08:34] <mjg59> mdz: No, we figured it out
[08:34] <mjg59> It's because we're shipping SMP kernels now
[08:34] <mdz> oh, super
[08:35] <mjg59> Which don't support suspend unless HOTPLUG_CPU is enabled
[08:35] <mdz> so in other words, it isn't just me
[08:35] <\sh> mjg59: ok...will test then
[08:35] <mdz> but all suspend everywhere
[08:35] <mjg59> mdz: Except on amd64, yeah
[08:36] <mjg59> Oh, and APM
[08:38] <Kamion> on the other hand it's evening ...
[08:39] <Keybuk> Kamion: hmm, I wonder who should do multiseat?
[08:39] <Kamion> Keybuk: I'll have a look at it now
[08:39] <ogra> does it need more than a dependency change ?
[08:39] <Kamion> like I say, I'll have a look at it now
[08:40] <Kamion> hmmmmmmm, ships a hotplug agent
[08:41] <Kamion> and is, how you say, non-trivial
[08:42] <Kamion> let's defer it and give it to daniels when he gets back
[08:43] <Keybuk> rofl
[08:43] <Keybuk> "you weren't around to say no" ?
[08:43] <ogra> heh
[08:44] <Keybuk> shouldn't be a problem
[08:44] <Keybuk> (it being uninstallable for a while, that is)
[08:45] <Kamion> elmo: please sync libtextwrap, ok to override
[08:47] <elmo> Kamion: done
[08:52] <siretart> elmo: please sync rockdodger and scgi from unstable, ok to override ubuntu changes
[08:52] <Keybuk> hmm, I might go grab some food and lean some new chords while brave people try and boot
[08:53] <elmo> siretart: done
[08:53] <siretart> elmo: and thanks a lot for the merges processed, but for the last merges, I got the ACCEPTED mail, but I didn't see them yet on dapper-changes@. is there something going wrong?
[08:54] <siretart> I'm just a bit confused, because in the past, I didn't see that
[08:54] <elmo> siretart: I've got them on dapper-changes@ and the web archive shows them too?
[08:56] <siretart> elmo: I dont see e.g. the 'helix-player' sync
[08:57] <Kamion> siretart: should #19205 be closed?
[08:57] <elmo> siretart: it was in NEW
[08:57] <elmo> until minutes ago
[08:58] <siretart> ah, okay. this explains
[08:59] <siretart> Kamion: yes, I'm closing it now
[08:59] <Kamion> thanks
[08:59] <elmo> actually, no it doesn't
[09:01] <mdke> elmo, cancel that email request for whitelisting me, the upload seems to have gone through ok
[09:03] <ogra> Keybuk, :( udev failed 
[09:03] <ogra> whats libsepol1-dev ?
[09:03] <Keybuk> "failed" ?
[09:04] <Keybuk> selinux policy library
[09:04] <Keybuk> oh, yeah
[09:04] <ogra> http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/buildlogs.cgi?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/u/udev/076-0ubuntu1/udev_076-0ubuntu1_20051130-1947-powerpc-failed.gz#anchor
[09:04] <Keybuk> Kamion: that'll need promoting
[09:04] <ogra> all arches
[09:05] <Kamion> it also needs a main inclusion report
[09:05] <Kamion> being new source for main
[09:05] <Kamion> and, er, security review. I bet that'll be fun
[09:06] <Keybuk> meanwhile nothing will boot <g>
[09:06] <Kamion> mdz: ?
[09:07] <lamont> elmo: want me to just stop the building of trustedqsl?
[09:07] <mdz> Kamion: yes?
[09:08] <xhaker> omg, i updated initramfs and udev failed :(
[09:08] <Kamion> mdz: libsepol; can we hurry it through main inclusion somehow? pitti is not here to do a review
[09:08] <mdz> I see
[09:08] <Kamion> xhaker: see the topic
[09:08] <Keybuk> xhaker: see, you didn't read the topic, did you? :p
[09:08] <elmo> lamont: I suggest killing it on any buildds it's building on and  n-f-u-ing it
[09:08] <elmo> on all arches till it's confirmed fixed, yeah
[09:08] <mdz> Kamion: let's both give it a once-over
[09:08] <elmo> lamont: <offtopic> I fixed caballero and sarti already</>
[09:09] <xhaker> i just now noticed the email saying initramfs will change stuff for udev
[09:09] <Kamion> I think we only need libsepol1 and libsepol1-dev, not the tools
[09:09] <xhaker> dapper-changes
[09:09] <lamont> elmo: will do
[09:09] <mdz> Keybuk: or can we do without it in udev?
[09:09] <Kamion> xhaker: stuff is breaking at the moment, as the backlog of this channel should make clear
[09:09] <Kamion> please do not clutter #ubuntu-devel with "omg, stuff broke" reports while we are trying to sort things out :)
[09:10] <Keybuk> mdz: I can drop all selinux support, yeah
[09:10] <Keybuk> might upset ajmitch
[09:10] <Keybuk> and the other kids
[09:10] <ogra> lol
[09:10] <Keybuk> but it's a quick and easy change
[09:10] <Kamion> does libselinux not provide much of that? that's in main
[09:10] <Keybuk> apparently not
[09:10] <Keybuk> it links to them both
[09:11] <mdz> Keybuk: drop all selinux support?  but udev didn't depend on this before
[09:12] <Keybuk> mdz: well, I'd have to manually go in, learn enough about selinux to cut out the deps on libsepol1 and leave those on libselinux1 without altering the functionality
[09:12] <Kamion> it links to them both, but doesn't appear to actually include <sepol/*>
[09:12] <Keybuk> it's probably easier to just drop the USE_SELINUX=true <g>
[09:12] <Kamion> so what's it doing with it? :P
[09:12] <Keybuk> really?  that's kinda cunning
[09:13] <Kamion> hm, hang on, I'm looking at 074
[09:13] <Keybuk> doesn't in 076 either
[09:13] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/udev/udev-076>$ wcgrep sepol
[09:13] <Kamion> ./Makefile:182: LIB_OBJS += -lselinux -lsepol
[09:13] <Kamion> ./debian/control:6:Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.1), libselinux1-dev, libsepol1-dev
[09:13] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~/src/ubuntu/udev/udev-076>$
[09:14] <mdz> it builds fine without sepol
[09:14] <Keybuk> it compiles and links without it
[09:14] <mdz> it has a -lsepol but builds fine if it is removed
[09:14] <Kamion> only text symbols that libsepol1 defines are sepol_*
[09:15] <xhaker> hah.. nvm initramfs didn't get installed ;)
[09:16] <Keybuk> hmm
[09:16] <Keybuk> close enough
[09:16] <mdz> I have an upload ready to go which removes it
[09:16] <Keybuk> it's under "fix selinux compilation, taken from RedHat CVS"
[09:16] <mdz> might be required for a newer selinux or something
[09:16] <Keybuk> it's entirely possible that it's a new dep of libselinux in RH CVS tree
[09:16] <Kamion> joy
[09:16] <Keybuk> mdz: beat you :p
[09:16] <Kamion> in that case surely libselinux should link to it itself
[09:17] <mdz> Keybuk: uploaded already?
[09:17] <mdz> Kamion: perhaps RH link udev statically or something
[09:17] <Keybuk> mdz: uploading currently
[09:20] <Keybuk> xhaker: yeah, I did put a dep in there <g>
[09:20] <Keybuk> Kamion: yeah, it's probably in an unreleased libselinux we don't have yet
[09:21] <lamont> is there a way to add comments in debian/control?
[09:21] <mdz> X-comment: ?
[09:21] <lamont> ok
[09:21] <Keybuk> dpkg actually supports #
[09:21] <Kamion> dpkg-dev >= 1.10.11 lets you just use #
[09:22] <mdz> scary
[09:22] <Keybuk> "doogie woz 'ere"
[09:22] <Kamion> horribly non-rfc822, but hey
[09:22] <mdz> fine for dpkg but not the dozens of other tools which parse that format
[09:25] <mdz> seb128,dholbach: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/libg/libgnomeuimm2.6/2.12.0-0ubuntu2/
[09:25] <ajmitch_2> Keybuk: it would upset me, I'd cry, but I understand if you want to drop selinux stuff :)
[09:25] <seb128> dholbach: *mm ... for you :)
[09:25] <dholbach> seb128: ok
[09:25] <seb128> thanks
[09:26] <Keybuk> ajmitch: s'ok, looks like it's just a RH weirdness that we can drop
[09:27] <ajmitch> right
[09:27] <ajmitch> probably something I have to review in the next week or two
[09:27] <ajmitch> if I want any chance of landing stuff before feature freeze :)
[09:36] <LaserJock> lamont: --print-uris ?
[09:39] <sivang> mdz: maybe someone else but you can review the under consideration goals ? I don't want to start with mine and then realize it's not a target - I'd  rather help on other possibly more important goals if allowed.
[09:43] <lamont> yep
[09:43] <lamont> LaserJock: thansk
[09:47] <wasabi> There an X command for changing the mouse speed?
[09:47] <Keybuk> xset
[09:47] <wasabi> thx
[09:48] <wasabi> wooh. fixed it right up.
[09:48] <wasabi> mouse preferences thing seems to be totally ineffectual now for some reason
[09:52] <Keybuk> udev built
[09:53] <Keybuk> ...and zis is ze time on sprockets venn ve dance!
[09:54] <psusi> can someone give me a pointer to where I can read about what udev is?  I remember the days when you just used mknod to create device nodes for devices you expected to use...
[09:54] <psusi> I remember hearing something about some sort of devfs to dynamically create devnodes for devices as they existed, but didn't really pay attention
[09:55] <psusi> and now it seems they have gone away from that again?
[09:55] <Keybuk> http://www.google.com/search?q=udev
[09:55] <wasabi> devfs was a pretty bad implementation.
[09:55] <wasabi> not to mention it made stupid names. ;)
[09:56] <psusi> what was so wrong with it?
[09:56] <psusi> heh
[09:56] <wasabi> Just didn't belong in the kernel.
[09:56] <wasabi> others know better than me.
[09:56] <psusi> who better knows what devices actually exist in the kernel than the kernel?
[09:56] <Keybuk> the kernel exposes that information to user-land via /sys
[09:56] <wasabi> the kernel knows, but shouldn't be responsible.
[09:56] <psusi> it allways seemed silly to manually make devnodes for device numbers that may or may not actually exist in the kernel
[09:56] <Keybuk> it's not up to the kernel to create filesystem nodes like /dev/*
[09:57] <ogra> Keybuk, where did you see it build ? its not in the buildlogs yet
[09:57] <Keybuk> ogra: in the build logs
[09:57] <psusi> hrm....
[09:57] <Keybuk> http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/buildlogs.cgi?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/u/udev/076-0ubuntu3/udev_076-0ubuntu3_20051130-2046-i386-successful.gz
[09:57] <wasabi> psusi: udev runs in user space. It monitors kernel device events and applies a policy to determine how to create the nodes.
[09:57] <wasabi> It's pretty simple, conceptually.
[09:57] <Keybuk> increasingly simple in implementation too
[09:57] <wasabi> Yeah.
[09:58] <wasabi> hotplug is gone now or something?
[09:58] <Keybuk> hotplug is gone
[09:58] <wasabi> psusi: likely as soon as Linux becomes a microkernel.
[09:58] <wasabi> (ie don't count on it)
[09:58] <psusi> I think sooner than that... seems to be what they are pushing for with the kernel device mapper
[09:58] <wasabi> evms does partition detection in userspace already.
[09:59] <psusi> move the partition detection code out to user space, and just tell the kernel where they are when it finds them
[09:59] <wasabi> Yeah. I'm not sure what the focus is on that. It's d-m is neat.
[09:59] <wasabi> But I question it's important for detecting DOS partitions.
[09:59] <wasabi> importance.
[10:00] <psusi> right now I have a hardware fakeraid... dual booting ubuntu and winxp on it... raid0 between two 10,000 rpm 36 gig raptors
[10:00] <psusi> it's nifty how a user mode utility detects the drives, figures out the raid config, and sets up the dm devices to access the raid and the partitions on it
[10:00] <wasabi> I agree.
[10:01] <psusi> unfortunately, things like gparted don't grok dm
[10:01] <Keybuk> dm is evil
[10:01] <psusi> dm rules ;)
[10:02] <psusi> let me see you resize and move around partitions on your hard disk, and create a new one to play with all while running the system from one of the existing partitions without dm ;)
[10:02] <psusi> I did that the other day... heh
[10:03] <psusi> without dm you'd either have to do it from a livecd, or at best, reboot after changing the partition table so the kernel could re-read it
[10:03] <sivang> psusi: how does ext3 supports real time resize , does it also require reboots?
[10:03] <sivang> (I've heared it does)
[10:04] <rob^^^> heya to the fridge folks, there is a typo in the link to the CC notes
[10:04] <Keybuk> evil!
[10:04] <Keybuk> evil!
[10:04] <Keybuk> (moody evil)
[10:04] <psusi> sivang: no, I don't think ext3 supports on the fly resize... I didn't resize the partition I was booted from obviously... but I shrank some others and created a new one in the free space all without a reboot
[10:04] <rob^^^> it has an extra space on the end onf the href causing bad things
[10:05] <psusi> sivang: you can't do that with conventional partitions because the kernel will not re-read the updated partition table while one of the partitions is still in use
[10:05] <psusi> which is why fdisk will tell you to reboot
[10:05] <mdz> sivang: honestly, what difference does it make to you if I select it as a target?
[10:05] <lifeless> mdz: hi
[10:05] <lifeless> mdz: you pung before ?
[10:06] <mdz> sivang: either you will do it, or you will not.  if it is interesting to you and you feel confident that you can complete it, do it
[10:06] <mdz> lifeless: yeah, I passed the token to SteveA though
[10:06] <lifeless> mdz: ok
[10:06] <mdz> lifeless: he said he would follow up with you
[10:06] <lifeless> Keybuk: re formats and support : http://bazaar.canonical.com/SuperMirrorFormats?action=show
[10:37] <ogra> Keybuk, looks like grepmap doesnt get installed in the initramfs ...
[10:41] <lucas> is there some sort of whitelisting which would prevent my mail for new@bugs.launchpad.net from reaching its target ?
[10:52] <Nafallo> Keybuk: ping :-)
[11:04] <mjg59> Keybuk: Hm. What was that about not moving /dev from the initramfs to / ?
[11:05] <Nafallo> and what happened to /dev/hd*?
[11:05] <Nafallo> ALERT! /dev/hda2 does not exist. Dropping to a shell!
[11:05] <ogra> Nafallol already upgraded ?
[11:05] <ogra> lol
[11:05] <Nafallo> now what? :-)
[11:05] <ogra> me too :)
[11:06] <HiddenWolf> http://www.desktoplinux.com/files/article019/osdl-dtl-survey-12.jpg
[11:06] <ogra> have you booted without splash to see all errors ? 
[11:06] <Nafallo> yes, and to get the shell 
[11:06] <ogra> does it complain about missing grepmap too for you ? 
[11:06] <Nafallo> damn mindreader!
[11:06] <Nafallo> yes :-)
[11:07] <ogra> heh
[11:07] <\sh> please welcome a new channel..."#ubuntu-motu-school"
[11:07] <ogra> that seems to be the issue ...
[11:09] <Nafallo> ogra: so what now? :-) reboot to livecd and chroot or wait for Keybuk to come back? ;-)
[11:09] <Nafallo> hi pitti :-)
[11:09] <ogra> Nafallo, the latter i think 
[11:10] <Nafallo> baah :-P
[11:10] <Nafallo> I'm using silverfairy for the moment ;-)
[11:10] <ogra> i wouldnt make such experiments without fallback, its my main machine 
[11:10] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo, silverfairy?
[11:10] <pitti> Hi Nafallo
[11:10] <Nafallo> my girlfriend shuttle (http://www.magicalforest.se/silverfairy/)
[11:11] <Nafallo> s/nd/nds/
[11:11] <sivang> \sh: why another channel? :)
[11:11] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo, ah. That sounded suspicious for a minute. :)
[11:12] <Nafallo> hehe
[11:14] <Nafallo> Keybuk: please include mknod in initramfs until it's stable, thanx :-P
[11:15] <sivang> Nafallo: you forgot kthxbye
[11:16] <sivang> Nafallo: and end it with "love, $YOUR_NAME" :)
[11:16] <Nafallo> sivang: naah, I actually want help from him, so naah. I postponed it rather ;-).
[11:22] <Kamion> uh, mknod isn't in the initramfs?
[11:22] <Kamion> it's in the busybox initramfs config
[11:23] <Nafallo> Kamion: not here on amd64 anyway...
[11:23] <ogra> grepmap isnt ... thats way worse
[11:23] <Kamion> well you should be able to do busybox mknod anyway
[11:23] <Kamion> grepmap shouldn't be needed for most events any more anyway
[11:23] <ogra> modprobe ide-disk is enoug
[11:23] <ogra> worked for me ...
[11:24] <hunger> I see that I am not the only one who can no longer boot;-)
[11:24] <ogra> Kamion, udev complains very loud about missing grepmap
[11:24] <Nafallo> ogra: right. thanx :-)
[11:24] <ogra> just before it breaks completely because of missing /dev/hdX
[11:24] <hunger> ogra: I had about 20k udevsend failures when rebooting.
[11:25] <hunger> ogra: ... and missing /dev/sdX as well.
[11:25] <HiddenWolf> hunger, count them to make sure. ;)
[11:25] <hunger> HiddenWolf: It started with PID 10k and ended in the 30k range.
[11:25] <dholbach> the old kernel works (2.6.12-9)
[11:26] <ogra> dholbach, not if the initramfs doesnt boot ;)
[11:27] <ogra> err ... indeed ... i'm silly, sorry
[11:27] <Nafallo> hmm
[11:28] <ogra> Nafallo, can you select the old kernel ? 
[11:28] <ogra> it will indeed also use the old initramfs ...
[11:28] <mvo> ogra: so it's a bad time do dist-upgrade right now :) ?
[11:28] <Nafallo> modprobe ide-disk, mount -rtext3 /dev/hda2 /root, ln -s /root/sbin/grepmap /sbin/grepmap, udevplug :-)
[11:29] <ogra> i wouldnt advise anyone to do it before Keybuk is back, mvo ;)
[11:29] <Nafallo> mvo: dist-upgrade is ok, just do not try to boot it afterwards ;-)
[11:31] <Mithrandir> elmo: yes?
[11:38] <\sh> ogra: #ubuntu-desktop-school? "lesson 1: How to setup good evo rules?"
[11:38] <ogra> heh
[11:38] <jdub> ogra: can you raise a bug with the clearlooks guys about it on 16 bit displays? they probably have no idea. :-)
[11:38] <HrdwrBoB> lesson 2: how to remove all the filters and end up using procmail anyway
[11:39] <ogra> \sh, i didnt think about having bugs that are not assigned to me ... but the bugzilla rule in my filters overrules the a11y mailing list rule apparently ...
[11:39] <HiddenWolf> lesson 3: file another set of bugs on Evo
[11:39] <ogra> jdub, will do :)
[11:39] <Tm_T> hullo
[11:40] <\sh> ogra: that's why I'm using sieve..it does what I want...not the other way around :)
[11:40] <Tm_T> any news about dapper & nvidia drivers?
[11:40] <HiddenWolf> Tm_T: #ubuntu
[11:40] <HiddenWolf> Tm_T: no, no progress, dapper is quite broken at the moment.
[11:40] <Tm_T> ok, then I wait
[11:41] <Tm_T> and yes it is, some day I get most of things working fine, today less :p
[11:42] <Nafallo> quite broken is and underestimation ;-)
[11:42] <ogra> lol, yes
[11:42] <Nafallo> I MIGHT have booted it soon :-P
[11:42] <Tm_T> thank you for the info, back to kubuntu wonderland ;) ->
[11:42] <ogra> Tm_T, jst see /topic :)
[11:42] <ogra> *just
[11:43] <Tm_T> ogra: heh, I'm not asking support if that's what you mean
[11:43] <mdke> jdub, got 2 minutes for a quick technical question?
[11:43] <ogra> Tm_T, nope, i rather meant the last part of /topic
[11:44] <ogra> this time at least :)
[11:44] <Tm_T> :p
[11:45] <Tm_T> humm, have to recheck it ;)
[11:45] <mdz> lifeless: how was your talk with Diziet about automated testing?
[11:46] <Tm_T> ogra: ah yes, keep hitting me, haven't learnt yet ;-P
[11:46] <jdub> mdke: ok
[11:46] <mdke> jdub, #ubuntu-doc
[11:47] <Nafallo> oh, are the kernels unstable?
[11:48] <dholbach> good night everybody
[11:48] <ogra> night dholbach 
[11:48] <Tm_T> ogra: thank you sir, I'll test last well worked kernel ;) ->
[11:48] <ogra> Tm_T, yup... wait some days before upgrading 
[11:49] <mdke> jdub, or in here if you like
[11:50] <jdub> mdke: what's the query?
[11:50] <mdke> jdub, we've just uploaded our first offering for dapper. In it, we've included two of the guides in both xml and html form, and I made a omf entry for each, to see how they would each work in yelp. They both appear to work fine (if you've got dapper you can check it out, or even install on breezy from http://mdke.org/images/ubuntu-docs.png). Do you foresee any (technical) problems in including the html in yelp in this way? I'm thinking mainly of trans
[11:50] <mdke> :)
[11:50] <jdub> well, it's shippable, but not useful
[11:50] <jdub> having both formats just ends up being confusing
[11:50] <mdke> jdub, yeah, i don't foresee having both
[11:51] <jdub> so why did you bother? :)
[11:51] <mdke> jdub, they are both there now so that we can compare them and see if there are any technical problems
[11:51] <jdub> the technical problem remains the same -> yelp won't automagically show the translated html, there is no standard way of doing so
[11:51] <mdke> jdub, i thought that problem was only for items opened from the menu.
[11:52] <mdke> jdub, if there is a translated omf file, why won't yelp show it?
[11:53] <mdke> e.g. in /usr/share/omf/desktopguide-html/ you would have desktopguide-C.omf, desktopguide-fr.omf etc
[11:53] <mdke> i mean, desktopguide-html-C.omf etc, sorry
[11:54] <Tm_T> how many of you are experiencing many segfaults in dapper lately?
[11:55] <jdub> mdke: i don't believe that helps - we'll see. even so, i don't think there is a significant advantage to shipping html - we should just make a nicely branded stylesheet for yelp, thus improving *all* the documentation.
[11:55] <mdke> jdub, we could, yeah
[11:55] <mdke> that would be more difficult that customising our css
[11:55] <mdke> plus, yelp doing xml->html is MUCH MUCH slower than doing it in the build
[11:56] <mdke> you'll see the speed difference if you try the dapper package
[11:57] <Nafallo> Tm_T: can't find the harddrive at boot atm :-)
[11:57] <Tm_T> haha
[11:58] <mdke> doesn't segfault here
[11:58] <Tm_T> I lost some apps since yesterday
[11:58] <Nafallo> "lost some apps"?
[11:58] <jdub> what the crap is up with that patrick mcfarland dude
[11:58] <jdub> oh
[11:58] <Tm_T> but, small flaws for better caause, making dapper the best release ever! ;)
[11:58] <jdub> i recognise the nick
[11:58] <jdub> what a tool
[11:59] <mdke> lol
[11:59] <Tm_T> Nafallo: well, when I try to run them, segfault immediately, recompiling doesn't help :p
[11:59] <Nafallo> Tm_T: sounds like fun.
[11:59] <mdke> jdub, ok as you say, we'll see. I think the speed difference is the killer for me though.
[12:00] <mdke> jdub, anyhow, we're chuffed at having uploaded so early, so that should bode well
[12:00] <mdke> :)
[12:00] <Tm_T> Nafallo: indeed, this silence is killing me when amaroK isn't working ;)
[12:01] <elmo> Mithrandir: what's up with mailman's insane /var/lib/mailman must be empty check in the preinst?