[12:08] <Simira> ogra :) How's your dog?
[12:08] <ogra> Simira, he's ok ...
[12:08] <ogra> for his age ...
[12:08] <ogra> moving very slow ...
[12:09] <Simira> ogra : I guess that's normal. As long as he's not hurting
[12:10] <ogra> nope, he isnt
[12:10] <ogra> he just gets lame slowly ...
[12:50] <highvoltage> boo
[12:50] <jelkner> good morning!
[12:50] <highvoltage> goof morning, jelkner.
[12:51] <highvoltage> (good)
[12:53] <jelkner> this is the time and place for the edubuntu meeting, yes?
[12:53] <kjcole> Why else would i beawake at this god forsaken hour?
[12:54] <jelkner> kjcole: speaking of god forsaken hours, does sunday at 9 work for you (or even 8:30 if your *really* brave ;-)?
[12:56] <spacey> 13:00 in the afternoon is quite reasonable :D
[12:56] <kjcole> jelkner: Hoooooowl!
[12:56] <jelkner> can i take that as a yes?
[12:57] <kjcole> jelkner: Sigh, oh the sacrifices I make.
[12:58] <jelkner> does that mean you're up for 8:30am ?
[12:58] <kjcole> jelkner; til when?
[12:58] <highvoltage> jelkner: yep
[12:59] <jelkner> till 12:00 noon
[12:59] <highvoltage> 2PM, what's God-forsaken about that? :P
[12:59] <jelkner> not sure exactly, i need to take my son to his tennis game
[12:59] <jelkner> but i can definitely work until noon
[01:00] <jelkner> kjcole: give me a quick call at 703-228-5419 to work out details (if you're near a phone)
[01:00] <kjcole> jelkner: for now let's say yes, but I'll want to check bus schedules, spouse schedules, etc.
[01:01] <JaneW> hi all
[01:01] <JaneW> role call
[01:01] <JaneW> roll even
[01:02] <JaneW> is ogra in the house?
[01:03] <highvoltage> he quit a few minutes ago.
[01:03] <kjcole> JaneW: Ogra was a few min ago
[01:03] <JaneW> let's give him a minute to return...
[01:03] <jelkner> he's back
[01:03] <highvoltage> wow, that worked :)
[01:03] <JaneW> hi ogra 
[01:03] <ogra> grumble ...
[01:03] <JaneW> and flint and mhz
[01:03] <highvoltage> hi ogra 
[01:03] <ogra> hi all
[01:03] <highvoltage> and flint and JaneW
[01:03] <mhz> hi you all, Edubuntereos! :D
[01:04] <ogra> working on erge bugs is no fun 
[01:04] <ogra> *merge
[01:04] <flint> do you have any idea how early this is? Good Morning...
[01:04] <spacey> i'm present
[01:04] <JaneW> hi spacey
[01:04] <kjcole> Ogra: No urge to merge?
[01:04] <mhz> flint: fresh ideas in the morning
[01:04] <ogra> kjcole, all merge bugs have to be finished tomorrow...
[01:04] <ogra> (for main)
[01:04] <flint> morning kevin, jane, ollli et al.
[01:06] <ogra> so tech update ? 
[01:06] <flint> where is my coffee...jane you carp about agendas?
[01:06] <highvoltage> ogra: fire away!
[01:06] <jelkner> ogra: please do!
[01:06] <kjcole> As jane said a few min ago.. Roll call first?
[01:06] <flint> oh no, it's elkner!!!
[01:07] <ogra> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html shows that we are pretty good for the flight CD on friday/saturday
[01:07] <flint> flint is flint
[01:07] <spacey> :P
[01:08] <ogra> the only differenc we have to the ubuntu CD currently is kino, which i currently consider to be dropped completely...
[01:08] <ogra> kino is a video editing app... 
[01:08] <highvoltage> ogra: how does the space look like?
[01:08] <ogra> video editing over ltsp is no real fun ...
[01:08] <highvoltage> ogra: are the applications larger than the previous versions?
[01:08] <ogra> we are at 670MB currently ...
[01:08] <ogra> so plenty of space ...
[01:09] <highvoltage> nice.
[01:09] <mhz> ogra: besidea, I've been told Kino is not the best ,so far, video editing app.
[01:09] <ogra> i requested a live filesystem build from lamont, but didnt hear back yet
[01:09] <ogra> mhz, its the best we have in main
[01:09] <ogra> and i'd like to keep it ... but it doesnt really make sense if you cant use it ...
[01:10] <ogra> videos over ltsp give you ~10 frames a second
[01:10] <ogra> which is not better than a slideshow
[01:10] <spacey> lots of video stuff in development
[01:10] <spacey> but not mature
[01:10] <Yagisan> ogra: is that because of lack of video acceleration on the clients ?
[01:10] <ogra> might be, but i dont thik the video issue can be solved before dapper
[01:11] <ogra> Yagisan, its because you send the picture back and forth through the ssh connection
[01:11] <spacey> high traffic
[01:11] <ogra> if we once have local app support (approximately dapper+1) you will be able to use it
[01:12] <spacey> that would be fancy
[01:12] <kjcole> ogra: not that it is necessarily possible, but as a tie in to the special needs in education (a.k.a. accessibility) video-based education for deaf students using sign language, would be sweet.  But I'm just fantasizing.
[01:12] <ogra> ok, so much about the CD ... we'll have a install CD ready for flight2, i cant promise a liveCD before lamont came back to me ... please start testing 
[01:12] <ogra> kjcole, as long as the base is not there, i cant do much ...
[01:13] <ogra> local apps is not on my list for this release
[01:13] <ogra> development in general :
[01:13] <ogra> i inspected willow .... anybody know willow ?
[01:13] <kjcole> ogra: I wasn't suggesting you create it.  Just tossing an idea out... planting seeds...
[01:13] <ogra> (except spacey )
[01:14] <spacey> :o
[01:14] <ogra> kjcole, lets sit together fr dapper+1 if you have experience in this warea
[01:14] <ogra> i think jelkner and flint will do a dapper dance ...... ;)
[01:14] <ogra> willow is a content filter app written in pythin ....
[01:14] <ogra> python
[01:14] <flint> not this early in the morning i won't...
[01:14] <kjcole> ogra: that image is just too scary to comtemplate.
[01:14] <jelkner> i'm dancing already!
[01:15] <ogra> its *not* requiring urllists or filter rules....
[01:15] <flint> oh neat!
[01:15] <mhz> wow
[01:15] <ogra> its based on bayesian filtering (similar to spamfilters)
[01:15] <kjcole> ogra: re video, no experience. just wishes.
[01:15] <flint> where do I find it (imagine Hindernburg landing at Lakehurst NJ.)
[01:15] <ogra> kjcole, feel free to work on it with me anyway ;)
[01:15] <highvoltage> ogra: is ldap on your list for this release?
[01:15] <kjcole> ogra: sure.
[01:15] <jelkner> ogra: does that mean we can run it on the server?
[01:16] <ogra> i'll package it up as soon as i got time ...
[01:16] <spacey> anyway i will look into willow in the next week and see what i can do
[01:16] <ogra> it requires some heavy packaging knowledge to get it right since i want a transparent proxy mode by default ...
[01:16] <ogra> but
[01:17] <ogra> it has a webbased gui i plan to replace with a desktop gui ....
[01:17] <spacey> complete replacement? optional would be nice?
[01:17] <ogra> i made some initial work available as bzr archive ... spacey expressed interest to work on it
[01:17] <highvoltage> nice.
[01:17] <spacey> for if you don't run it on the edubuntu machine but on a router
[01:18] <flint> (Hindenburg landing at Lakehurst NJ := flint dancing for joy over willow :^)
[01:18] <ogra> you will be ale to enable the web gui, but i will disable it by default 
[01:18] <ogra> the default conf app will be the desktop gui
[01:18] <spacey> ogra, fair enough :)
[01:18] <ogra> if you want to work on it, please make a bzr branch from my archive and make your work available in bzr on the web so i can merge it
[01:19] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/
[01:19] <ogra> ^^^ my bzr archives 
[01:19] <spacey> ok ^_^
[01:19] <kjcole> flint: I think for willow, one should "weep" (for joy of course).
[01:19] <flint> spacey, should we consider booting willow on a router as an outboard machine
[01:19] <spacey> outboard?
[01:19] <ogra> the basic glade gui stuff is done, it would be nice just to port the web gui functions for the backend
[01:20] <flint> spacey, later... old idea...
[01:20] <spacey> ok
[01:20] <ogra> the plan since we still are on a single classroom solution is to run it on the server ...
[01:20] <ogra> as transparent proxy, configured to run by default
[01:20] <flint> ah, the old python...
[01:21] <jane_> for goodness sake why does my line disconnect at 12:00UTC every wednesday....?!!
[01:21] <ogra> if and only if it gets ready in time before UVF, i'll try to get it on the CD
[01:21] <spacey> i'll give willow a testdrive on friday
[01:21] <ogra> else you'll have it in universe to install separately
[01:21] <highvoltage> JaneW: Telkom
[01:21] <JaneW> (sorry about that *again*)
[01:21] <ogra> (and if i dont discover bad bugs indeed)
[01:21] <kjcole> JaneW: You do seem to come and go a bit... 
[01:21] <flint> JaneW, do you know how much it costs us to have that done every week?  Tell her guys!
[01:21] <JaneW> highvoltage: but it's FINE the rest of the week.... *shakeshead*
[01:22] <ogra> the status of ltsp:
[01:22] <ogra> my ldm fixes are submitted to mdz for review, havent heard back yet ....
[01:22] <ogra> the multiarch patch Yagisan wrote is integrated and submitted to mdz .... havent heard back either
[01:23] <flint> zimmerman just got back from San Francisco...
[01:23] <ogra> sound is not submittable integrated yet, my merge bugs for ubuntu currently take most of my dev time ...
[01:24] <highvoltage> Yagisan: congrats with your boy!
[01:24] <ogra> but all my work is available in my bzr archive for inspection, so feel free to bzr get it ;)
[01:24] <ogra> (see url above)
[01:24] <JaneW> ^^^ +++
[01:24] <highvoltage> ogra: and swapping over the network?
[01:25] <Yagisan> thanks. love to chat about him after meeting
[01:25] <ogra> highvoltage, ....
[01:25] <flint> Yagisan, Jamie, is there a Jones sub-process?
[01:25] <ogra> to answer highvoltage, the specs are at mdz for review as well ...
[01:25] <highvoltage> ok.
[01:25] <ogra> the ThinClientMemoryUsage spec contains the network swap stuff...
[01:26] <ogra> as soon as its approved, i'll work on integrating that
[01:26] <ogra> as well as the FasterBootScpe and the SoundSpec
[01:26] <highvoltage> nice. it's quite essential, imo.
[01:27] <ogra> its already integrated in breezy 
[01:27] <Yagisan> ogra: how far along is ThinClientMemoryUsage ?
[01:27] <ogra> but is not set up ...
[01:27] <highvoltage> ogra: i didn't know that, let's talk about that later then.
[01:27] <ogra> Yagisan, thats last on my priority list, since it depends on other stuff
[01:27] <flint> ogra, what about block memory devices?  Sound is optional in a crowded classroom
[01:27] <ogra> i.e. the faster boot spec
[01:28] <kjcole> flint: especially since they're all listening to their iPod's anyway.
[01:28] <flint> kjcole, or talking on their cell phones...
[01:28] <ogra> the local device spec is a= not done yet and b) depending on work of others who are very busy currently
[01:28] <Yagisan> what has the boot time been reduced to ?
[01:29] <ogra> Yagisan, hard to predict, i totally depend on Keybuks fixes of udev that havent hit dapper yet
[01:29] <highvoltage> ogra: the default edubuntu installer for release, will it use the ncurses d-i or u-e?
[01:29] <ogra> currently my thin client here (a very slow one) produces a bootchart with 50seconds
[01:30] <highvoltage> 50seconds not too bad.
[01:30] <ogra> highvoltage, we'll have two ...
[01:30] <flint> highvoltage, I thought they used whiptail
[01:30] <kjcole> d-i or u-e?
[01:30] <Yagisan> also, would multicast tftp help speed the boot process ? It could allow etherboot systems to load the kernel more efficently
[01:30] <ogra> the liveCD will have u-e but only install the workstation version
[01:30] <spacey> kjcole, debian installer or ubuntu-express
[01:30] <highvoltage> kjcole: debian-installer / ubuntu-express
[01:30] <ogra> te install cd will have d-i and install the server
[01:30] <highvoltage> kjcole: sorry, a bit lazy to type
[01:30] <Yagisan> ogra: after meeting - please tel me how to bootchart my terminals
[01:31] <ogra> Yagisan, sudo apt-get install bootchart in the chroot ;)
[01:31] <ogra> (works only in dapper)
[01:31] <kjcole> spacey, highvoltage: That's what I get for being an rpm guy in an obviously deb universe. Thanks.
[01:31] <ogra> Yagisan, you cant
[01:31] <ogra> it depends on certain features of initramfsafaik
[01:32] <ogra> highvoltage, feel free to chat with Kamion about that, i hav no extra dev time for working on express at all
[01:32] <highvoltage> cool.
[01:32] <ogra> ltsp is more important currently
[01:33] <highvoltage> completely agreed.
[01:33] <ogra> ok, thats all from my side for now ... if Kamion calls out for flight 2 tests, please start testing our CD, it should be fine by then ...
[01:33] <JaneW> thanks ogra
[01:34] <ogra> oh, in a sidenote, the gobby main inclusion report is written and waiting for approval through pitti
[01:34] <JaneW> I can;t belive none of my beaurocratic stuff came through int he beginning - maybe there's an admin filter here ;)
[01:34] <highvoltage> seems like you're way ahead of everyone, ogra.
[01:34] <JaneW> ogra: yay :)
[01:34] <ogra> as soon as thats done i'll add it to the desktop
[01:34] <flint> ogra, thanks for all the hard work, I have been rebuilding my Lab here in Vermont
[01:34] <jelkner> ogra: thanks a 10**6!
[01:34] <ogra> flint, cool
[01:35] <JaneW> ogra: yes well done you have been quietly working away haven't you?
[01:35] <ogra> JaneW, yup...
[01:35] <spacey> hard worker :)
[01:35] <ogra> but my merge bugs take a lot time currently
[01:35] <kjcole> ogra: such a busy boy!  
[01:35] <JaneW> understood
[01:35] <ogra> so i cant as much as i would like :)
[01:35] <JaneW> ogra: did you have a prepared summary?
[01:35] <flint> America interrupted all meaningful work here with Thanksgiving Holiday
[01:35] <mhz> ogra: bis from here
[01:35] <jelkner> i need to run (students arriving)... same time next week?
[01:36] <ogra> JaneW, nope, i'll merge it together from the log ...
[01:36] <JaneW> ogra: if so please dump it in a PM for me - if not I'll distill from the logs...
[01:36] <highvoltage> can we talk about the website?
[01:36] <JaneW> highvoltage: yes shoot
[01:36] <ogra> after the meeting
[01:36] <flint> jelkner, go get 'em tiger!
[01:36] <JaneW> ogra: ok
[01:36] <mhz> jelkner: did the how to work?
[01:36] <JaneW> jelkner: bye, thanks
[01:36] <ogra> ciao jelkner 
[01:36] <kjcole> jelkner: Same Bat-Time, Same Bat-Channel
[01:36] <highvoltage> ok, let's do the biggest part first.
[01:36] <jelkner> mhz: i'll look it over today, and get back to you
[01:36] <mhz> ok
[01:37] <highvoltage> Philip has convinced me that we should use Drupal for CMS on Edubuntu.
[01:37] <flint> kjcole, Same Chat-Time, Same Chat-Channel :^)
[01:37] <highvoltage> the biggest reason not to use it is because it's php based, and that can potentially open security vulnerabilities.
[01:37] <highvoltage> but ubuntu already uses php for some of the sites.
[01:37] <ogra> highvoltage, have fun with weekly php secuity updates ;)
[01:38] <Yagisan> s/weekly/daily
[01:38] <ogra> heh
[01:38] <highvoltage> ogra: sure
[01:38] <highvoltage> ogra: and it also runs alone on the edubuntu server, the risks are quite low, imo.
[01:38] <highvoltage> hno73 has some great ideas with the wiki.
[01:39] <ogra> if you got a security hole and little scriptkiddies put porn on the frontpage .....
[01:39] <highvoltage> and while i think it will work perfectly with people familiar with wiki's, I don't think it will work well with our target market
[01:39] <ogra> :)
[01:39] <highvoltage> i.e. overworked underpaid teachers
[01:39] <highvoltage> ogra: i'll know it was you :P
[01:39] <ogra> hahaha
[01:39] <mhz> highvoltage: has he wikied his ideas? (i'd love to read them)
[01:39] <ogra> i have no clue about php :)
[01:40] <highvoltage> mhz: yes, he has
[01:40] <flint> highvoltage, johnathan, you nailed it with the market description.
[01:40] <mhz> highvoltage: cool
[01:40] <highvoltage> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSitePublishingTools
[01:40] <ogra> i stay away from it as far as i can... dont fear me... fear 20yr younger kids ;)
[01:40] <highvoltage> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan
[01:40] <highvoltage> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration
[01:40] <mhz> highvoltage: duh! I wasn't subscribed :(
[01:41] <highvoltage> ogra: i avoid php too wherever i can, i do think drupal is the best tool for the job though
[01:41] <highvoltage> flint: ;)
[01:42] <JaneW> highvoltage: I have heard good things about it
[01:42] <highvoltage> drupal will make it easier for us to manage the edubuntu documentation too.
[01:42] <highvoltage> and for the web team to add content.
[01:42] <ogra> highvoltage, http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=drupal
[01:42] <mhz> highvoltage: we could have a meeting about moin or something else?
[01:42] <highvoltage> wiki makes it easy too, but then we get back to our target market question
[01:43] <ogra> you should monitor the above page if you use it
[01:43] <mhz> highvoltage: drupal will not make it easier to remember PageNames :(
[01:43] <kjcole> drupal, IIRC also gets grades ffrom the politically progressive crowd.  Don't know much about drupal other than a lot of the radical, hippie, Green, etc progressives seem to drift towards it.
[01:43] <spacey> why not stick to the same as ubuntu?
[01:43] <mhz> kjcole: that's true and good feature
[01:44] <flint> kjcole, takes a hippie to know a hippie! :^)
[01:44] <jsgotangco> heya
[01:44] <mhz> hey jsgotangco 
[01:44] <kjcole> flint: Tune in, turn on (your computer), drop out.
[01:45] <flint> kjcole, I mean that in the nicest way (damn hippie :^)
[01:45] <Yagisan> brb -sending kids^monsters to bed
[01:45] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Hiya
[01:46] <jsgotangco> are we meeting?
[01:46] <mhz> yup
[01:46] <flint> indeed
[01:46] <kjcole> jsgotangco: yup.
[01:47] <jsgotangco> ok
[01:47] <highvoltage> geez, i must say, i'm a bit torn on this one (usually being a good decision maker)
[01:47] <mhz> highvoltage: what decision?
[01:47] <spacey> why not stick to the same as ubuntu?
[01:47] <highvoltage> drupal will suite our needs very well, but like ogra says, we don't want to end up with a site with porn on the front page
[01:47] <mhz> exactly
[01:47] <highvoltage> mhz: drupal as CMS for edubuntu
[01:48] <mhz> highvoltage: why can't we work closer to Moin wiki devels?
[01:48] <ogra> if someone cares for weekly updates of the server drupal is fine ....
[01:48] <spacey> its not really straight forwarded if edubuntu has everything completely different from ubuntu?
[01:48] <ogra> the thing is that the security stuff requires someone to care for it all the time
[01:48] <JaneW> seems to labour intensive
[01:48] <mhz> highvoltage: this way we'll include what's missing
[01:48] <highvoltage> ogra: does the ubuntu-updates cover the security vulnerabilities for php?
[01:48] <JaneW> is there another good option?
[01:49] <ogra> highvoltage, i dont know the priority of drupal here ... but it should, yes
[01:49] <mhz> JaneW: sure, MoinMoin :)
[01:49] <flint> highvoltage, my favorite dream app is a php interperter running in zope...
[01:49] <ogra> JaneW, Kewl is something else ...
[01:49] <Yagisan> well, if it isn't in main, someone needs to work full time on keeping it going, and secure
[01:49] <ogra> and has no security monitoring at all ...
[01:49] <highvoltage> so, let's try Drupal, if it gives us problems we change it.
[01:49] <JaneW> ogra: from the demo I saw it seemed to have CMS stuff...?
[01:50] <highvoltage> JaneW, ogra: you fine with that?
[01:50] <flint> you have to keep php patched for moodle...
[01:50] <JaneW> highvoltage: if you are prepared to own it and keep it up to date and running... ;)
[01:50] <Yagisan> does anyone here know how to use Drupal ?
[01:50] <ogra> JaneW, yes, but its php based and has no big community yet ... so vulnerabilitys wont be found or known ...
[01:50] <ogra> there drupal is the better option
[01:50] <mhz> highvoltage: what about the 'scroring' feature of Trac (Trac is based in moin)
[01:50] <highvoltage> Yagisan: i've used drupal before
[01:50] <spacey> what was wrong with moinmoin?
[01:50] <JaneW> ogra: ok (for the record I don't like it anyway)
[01:50] <ogra> heh
[01:51] <JaneW> ogra: I'd rather go with drupal
[01:51] <mhz> Yagisan: i tried it twice
[01:51] <highvoltage> mhz: apparently drupal is quite good at those kind of things Philip talked alot about it. i think he called it taxonomy.
[01:51] <mhz> twice =2 diff. sites
[01:51] <ogra> JaneW, yes, but highvoltage will have a lot of work through it ...
[01:51] <spacey> JaneW, you don't like what?
[01:51] <mhz> highvoltage: yup
[01:51] <Yagisan> ok - I just don't think you should use anything that you can't administrate
[01:51] <JaneW> spacey: KEWL.nextGen
[01:51] <mhz> highvoltage: taxonomy could easily be implemented in Moin, afailk
[01:51] <ogra> JaneW, if he's fine with potential weekly updates etc, it shouldnt be a problem
[01:52] <spacey> right, rings a bell, can't remember, and sounds nasty :P
[01:52] <jsgotangco> mhz: let's not be too enthusaistic about Moin
[01:52] <jsgotangco> :)
[01:52] <mhz> jsgotangco: not possible for me :)
[01:52] <highvoltage> JaneW, ogra: we can have it as a non-live site, proto.edubuntu.org with a htpassword, and once we're happy with it, it goes live.
[01:52] <jsgotangco> mhz: i just find it creepy sometimes
[01:52] <JaneW> highvoltage: cool
[01:52] <flint> highvoltage, remember how you identify the pioneer, he is the guy with the arrow in his back...
[01:52] <ogra> JaneW, my only concern is that it needs someone who continiously has the time to fix stuff probably on a weekly base
[01:52] <mhz> highvoltage: jsgotangco: have you ever subscried to a page in Drupal
[01:53] <spacey> whats wrong with the stuff which edubuntu uses atm?
[01:53] <highvoltage> in the meantime, i'll educate myseld on the common problems with drupal, and php, and make sure our system starts out as secure as it can be
[01:53] <JaneW> highvoltage:  would we have a regression path is we change our minds?
[01:53] <JaneW> s/is/if
[01:53] <flint> jsgotangco, oh thank you for the zope plug, and there is always plone!
[01:54] <jsgotangco> flint: including plone of course
[01:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: we can have 2 backups
[01:54] <flint> highvoltage, how external :^)
[01:54] <JaneW> ok no more free advertising guys :P
[01:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: we can more or less maintain our current site as a fallback,
[01:54] <highvoltage> and we can copy and paste from the drupal site to a new one, if we want. 
[01:54] <kjcole> Haven't personally tried anything but MoinMoin, but I've liked being able to understand the source I've looked at and tweak it a bit.  Rare for me.  (Done some of that with Mailman as well.)
[01:54] <JaneW> ok, well then lets try and see how it goes, given that you have the time and inclination
[01:54] <highvoltage> we could also save some pages as .html and link them up, but that's just yucky.
[01:54] <highvoltage> JaneW: but yes, we can have fallbacks.
[01:55] <highvoltage> (and we will)
[01:55] <JaneW> kjcole: me too, but it seems it's to try and 'technical' for the averegae teacher, from what I hear
[01:55] <mhz> kjcole: what can i say? i agree :)
[01:55] <jsgotangco> i'll afk for 5 minutes go to rush to the drugstore
[01:55] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Zope's a bit heavy for edubuntu, no?
[01:55] <jsgotangco> kjcole: pretty much yeah
[01:56] <flint> highvoltage, if you were really mad and blind with ambition, you would propose writing a python script which would update the current site to drupal.
[01:56] <flint> you need zope if you are running schooltool
[01:56] <highvoltage> flint: if i were really mand and blind with ambition, i would write a python app that replaces drupal entirely :)
[01:57] <ogra> kjcole, why ? 
[01:57] <spacey> are you mad and blind?
[01:57] <flint> highvoltage, excellent point!  i admire the mad.
[01:57] <highvoltage> spacey: only on wednesdays
[01:57] <mhz> highvoltage: are you sure that working with Moin devel guys won't let us have the missing features (still understand which, though)
[01:57] <spacey> :)
[01:57] <flint> ok sleepy and blind with ambition
[01:57] <highvoltage> mhz: it will, but at a time price.
[01:58] <highvoltage> mhz: hno73 has lots of cool ideas, and have been following moinmoin quite extensively, and you can do everything we want to, but not quite yet.
[01:58] <kjcole> ogra: In my limited experience, zope + plone just seemed to be "big", whereas moin seemed "small".  No actual empirical evidence (other than watching the install process for both in RHEL3.)
[01:58] <highvoltage> some of the features take some extra coding, some are still being developed.
[01:59] <highvoltage> what it comes down to currently, is the usability.
[01:59] <highvoltage> that's more important to me now that functionality.
[01:59] <ogra> kjcole, but zope/ploe is safe ...
[01:59] <ogra> *plone
[01:59] <spacey> thats what we have now right?
[01:59] <highvoltage> i think it's better to have less features, but have a system that's easier to use.
[01:59] <ogra> kjcole, and requires nearly no admin work after being set up ...
[01:59] <highvoltage> spacey: ubuntu is partially plone
[02:00] <mhz> highvoltage: the only features I understand Drupal have over Moin is Forum, Voting, and Polls. The rest I think are all implementavle. But IMHO, drupal has less total features than moin.
[02:00] <JaneW> ok time's up, and we only discussed technical and webiste...
[02:00] <JaneW> was there anything else?
[02:00] <highvoltage> can we have more time?
[02:00] <spacey> personally i don't like plone, but i do think it is quite nice to have the same system as ubuntu, not to confuse endusers with different systems
[02:00] <JaneW> what happened in the ally meeting last week?
[02:00] <flint> JaneW, I agree enough about the factory back to the product
[02:00] <mhz> highvoltage: good point usability v/s funcioanlity
[02:01] <kjcole> ogra: Safe is good. ;-) But after setting up both, I found myself regularly updating my Moin pages, and fearing Zope/Plone.  Three books on Zope, and no books on Moin.
[02:01] <JaneW> highvoltage: sure, thing is I have a commitment at 15:10 each day, so the meetings need to be pretty punctual
[02:01] <kjcole> `
[02:01] <highvoltage> okay, for those interested, please join the web team on launchpad
[02:01] <highvoltage> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-website
[02:01] <JaneW> please guys feel free to update the tables in http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords
[02:01] <flint> JaneW, why so obsessive about lunch?
[02:01] <JaneW> even if we don;t get to discussing the stuff it can still be in the status reprts
[02:01] <kjcole> ogra: (I mean I have three books on Zope, and no books on Moin).  So from a non-techie point of view...
[02:02] <highvoltage> also, from the TSF side, i'm working on some documentation for Edubuntu for our Edubuntu roll-out in April/June next year
[02:02] <ogra> in a sidenote, edubuntu has a booth, a installtion workshop and i'll hold a talk at the linuxtag essen on saturday ...
[02:02] <spacey> you should make it a subteam of edubuntu
[02:02] <JaneW> flint: heh, no it's my turn to fetch kids :P
[02:02] <mhz> JaneW: i'll reply to patrizzio
[02:02] <flint> I want to beg forgiveness for not doing any documentation... I am a bad man!
[02:02] <highvoltage> i will be putting this up to our website too, if you want to get involved there,
[02:02] <JaneW> mhz: thank you
[02:02] <highvoltage> be sure to join the doc group on launchpad too
[02:02] <kjcole> Speaking of documentation.
[02:02] <JaneW> flint: not good enough :P
[02:02] <highvoltage> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-doc
[02:03] <flint> JaneW, do not eat your kids even if you are in africa, they frown on canabalisim... :^)
[02:03] <mhz> JaneW: jdub edubuntu-es ML answer should be in my inbox, I guess, by no later than tomorrow (hopefully)
[02:03] <highvoltage> flint: JaneW and I are African. we should know, shouldn't we?
[02:03] <mhz> JaneW: I have created 2 teams in LP (EdubuntuChile and EdubuntuStudyContent)
[02:04] <jsgotangco> please add me
[02:04] <jsgotangco> :)
[02:04] <JaneW> flint: but they are so tasty!
[02:04] <flint> JaneW, I am certain that they are good enough to eat
[02:04] <highvoltage> Yagisan: there's also an ltsp group: https://launchpad.net/people/ltspubuntu i haven't seen you there yet
[02:04] <kjcole> Jelkner and I met Sunday, and started shreding our way through the tuxLab cookbook.  The bzr branch is up on Launchpad now, but this morning jelkner said "Let's not do this docbook stuff. Let's do lore."
[02:04] <highvoltage> i can keep further info for next meeting.
[02:04] <mhz> highvoltage: I'd be glad to jump in in that Edubuntu doc
[02:04] <kjcole> He's very into lore.  
[02:05] <jsgotangco> kjcole: please write as you will, I can easily move to docbook as needed
[02:05] <highvoltage> mhz: excellent :) we'll manage that through our new drupal site, the proto site should be up within the next week
[02:05] <jsgotangco> just focus on content
[02:05] <flint> kjcole, openoffice 2.0 outputs docbook as a save option...
[02:05] <jsgotangco> flint: not good enough
[02:05] <jsgotangco> i'd rather have you guys write in ODF
[02:06] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: do you prefer ODF?
[02:06] <jsgotangco> and i'll slave on the actual code transformation
[02:06] <mhz> highvoltage: grrrr, okis I'l try to be objective (very difficult :D )
[02:06] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: flexible enough to move to other formats
[02:06] <JaneW> ok, it;s going to be very hard for me to document this weeks meeting...
[02:06] <JaneW> are we agreed that we'll TRY drupal?
[02:06] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Since I have the docbook and reST sources already, (for tuxLab Cookbook) and that's what we're basing off of, it seemed easier to edit the existing, rather than convert, but I'm not particularly committed to any particular method.
[02:06] <highvoltage> JaneW: yes
[02:07] <JaneW> and all accountability and responsibility for it is on highvoltage (no pressure) ;)
[02:07] <mhz> JaneW: hmm, yes 
[02:07] <highvoltage> JaneW: we will install it on a prototype platform, and put in content and evaluate how it works for us
[02:07] <JaneW> cool, works for me
[02:07] <jsgotangco> kjcole: let's focus on content first, the coding would be easier
[02:07] <highvoltage> JaneW: then, if we're happy that it covers our old site, we move across to the drupal site for our main site
[02:07] <jsgotangco> *trust me*
[02:07] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Fine by me.
[02:07] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: i have a policy to never trust anyone who says "trust me"
[02:08] <jsgotangco> highvoltage: lol ok i take that as a compliment
[02:08] <jsgotangco> :D
[02:08] <highvoltage> JaneW: meeting notes better?
[02:08] <kjcole> In any case, we made good progress, hand-editing hard-copies, and trimmed quite a bit.
[02:08] <mhz> JaneW: yesterday night, I mentioned to Seveas that not having edubuntu-es or anything regarding ubuntu, may cause newcomers a little problem IF we find no proper conduct in there (we can't slap or kick)
[02:09] <mhz> JaneW: so I'll ping him on friday if the person who registered edubunt-es doesn't show up, and Seveas is working on some 'guidlines'
[02:09] <JaneW> mhz: I'll pick up in #edubuntu when I return ok?
[02:09] <mhz> okis
[02:09] <ogra> mhz, we normally dont slap or kick people ... 
[02:10] <flint> highvoltage, my feeling about drupal  is "once a philosopher, twice a pervert"  what can it hurt to try...
[02:10] <JaneW> mhz: sounds like you need a CoC
[02:10] <mhz> ogra: hehehe, you know what i mean
[02:10] <mhz> CoC?
[02:10] <ogra> mhz, first target is to convince by talking ...
[02:10] <highvoltage> flint: naked people is part of ubuntu's heritage
[02:10] <flint> JaneW, enjoy the kidos i'm for coffee for 5 minutes...
[02:10] <mhz> ogra: sure, that's why i said IF
[02:10] <JaneW> flint: k, send me pics of yours!
[02:10] <kjcole> mhz and another fellow (toxictoadz) have joined the Edubuntu Cookbook Cooks, and I'm probably looking at them for translation work...
[02:10] <ogra> mhz, we kicked exactly one troll in #edubuntu it its whole existance .... after trying to convince 2 weeks
[02:10] <kjcole> mhz, yes?
[02:11] <highvoltage> wow, not bad.
[02:11] <mhz> ogra: really? who?
[02:11] <highvoltage> bill gates? he's been trolling a lot lately.
[02:11] <Seveas> ghe, in #ubuntu the kick rate is somewhat highrt :)
[02:11] <mhz> kjcole: sorry, lost me... what?
[02:11] <jsgotangco> i remember that....
[02:11] <ogra> mhz, kicking should be the very last resort ... and you should be able to contact the owner within this timeframe
[02:11] <flint> I was hoping to be elected troll...
[02:12] <ogra> mhz, she was called JenniferX
[02:12] <mhz> ogra: indeed
[02:12] <highvoltage> meeting finished?
[02:12] <flint> I am a troll befor coffee. back in 5
[02:12] <ogra> meeting finished !
[02:12] <spacey> ok:)
[02:12] <ogra> thanks all
[02:12] <kjcole> mhz, I think I recently approved you in the Edubuntu Cookbook Cooks... I'm figuring you for translation work.  Am I right?
[02:12] <ogra> lets move over to #edubuntu for general chatter
[02:12] <mhz> kjcole: oh, yes
[02:12] <mhz> kjcole: and if possible, KISS docs
[02:13] <ogra> and make this room free for the others ...
[02:14] <Seveas> 8 bytes of topic saved :o)
[02:15] <mhz> :)
[02:47] <lamont> ogra: livefs build is now scheduled (missed one spot), but it doesn't build atm
[02:47] <ogra> lamont-away, because of the uninstallables ? 
[02:50] <lamont-away> yes
[02:55] <ogra> ok, so this should be fine with flight 2 preparation ... apart from kino we have the same uninstallables ubuntu has ...