[12:08] ogra :) How's your dog? [12:08] Simira, he's ok ... [12:08] for his age ... [12:08] moving very slow ... [12:09] ogra : I guess that's normal. As long as he's not hurting [12:10] nope, he isnt [12:10] he just gets lame slowly ... === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@69.106.49.7] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hunger__ [n=hunger@p54A60A82.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === SloMoSnail [n=slomo@p5487FA29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === spacey [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lamont [n=lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B0F29.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jane_ [n=JaneW@wbs-146-174-135.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rob1 [n=rob@ubuntu/member/rob1] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-69-105-224-64.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 30 Nov 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 01 Dec 20:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 02 Dec 22:00 UTC: DocTeam | 06 Dec 14:00 UTC: Community Council | 07 Dec 14:30 UTC: Accessibility Team | 16 Dec 16:00 UTC: Desktop team === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@vpn-imt8.uni-paderborn.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-69-105-224-64.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === cyphase [n=cyphase@adsl-69-105-224-64.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hunger [n=hunger@p54A61F12.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Simira [n=rpGirl@214.84-48-74.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hunger [n=hunger@p54A63C9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jelkner [n=jelkner@158.59.194.112] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:50] boo [12:50] good morning! [12:50] goof morning, jelkner. === kjcole [n=kjcole@dsl092-145-217.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [12:51] (good) [12:53] this is the time and place for the edubuntu meeting, yes? [12:53] Why else would i beawake at this god forsaken hour? [12:54] kjcole: speaking of god forsaken hours, does sunday at 9 work for you (or even 8:30 if your *really* brave ;-)? [12:56] 13:00 in the afternoon is quite reasonable :D [12:56] jelkner: Hoooooowl! [12:56] can i take that as a yes? [12:57] jelkner: Sigh, oh the sacrifices I make. [12:58] does that mean you're up for 8:30am ? === kjcole whines "all... right... if I *HAVE* to." [12:58] jelkner; til when? [12:58] jelkner: yep [12:59] till 12:00 noon [12:59] 2PM, what's God-forsaken about that? :P [12:59] not sure exactly, i need to take my son to his tennis game [12:59] but i can definitely work until noon === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@pcp0010489211pcs.essex01.md.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:00] kjcole: give me a quick call at 703-228-5419 to work out details (if you're near a phone) [01:00] jelkner: for now let's say yes, but I'll want to check bus schedules, spouse schedules, etc. [01:01] hi all [01:01] role call [01:01] roll even === kjcole is Kevin Cole [01:02] is ogra in the house? [01:03] he quit a few minutes ago. [01:03] JaneW: Ogra was a few min ago === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:03] let's give him a minute to return... [01:03] he's back [01:03] wow, that worked :) === flint [n=flint@69-164-120-179.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:03] hi ogra [01:03] grumble ... [01:03] and flint and mhz === mhz is here [01:03] hi ogra [01:03] hi all [01:03] and flint and JaneW [01:03] hi you all, Edubuntereos! :D [01:04] working on erge bugs is no fun [01:04] *merge [01:04] do you have any idea how early this is? Good Morning... [01:04] i'm present [01:04] hi spacey [01:04] Ogra: No urge to merge? [01:04] flint: fresh ideas in the morning [01:04] kjcole, all merge bugs have to be finished tomorrow... [01:04] (for main) [01:04] morning kevin, jane, ollli et al. === kjcole sleepily mumbles something aproximating a greeting to all [01:06] so tech update ? === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-79-66-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:06] where is my coffee...jane you carp about agendas? [01:06] ogra: fire away! [01:06] ogra: please do! [01:06] As jane said a few min ago.. Roll call first? [01:06] oh no, it's elkner!!! === highvoltage is here === kjcole is Kevin Cole [01:07] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/report.html shows that we are pretty good for the flight CD on friday/saturday [01:07] flint is flint === jelkner is Jeff Elkner === spacey is Herman Bos [01:07] :P === ogra is OliverGrawert === highvoltage is JonathanCarter === Yagisan is Jamie Jones [01:08] the only differenc we have to the ubuntu CD currently is kino, which i currently consider to be dropped completely... [01:08] kino is a video editing app... [01:08] ogra: how does the space look like? [01:08] video editing over ltsp is no real fun ... [01:08] ogra: are the applications larger than the previous versions? [01:08] we are at 670MB currently ... [01:08] so plenty of space ... [01:09] nice. [01:09] ogra: besidea, I've been told Kino is not the best ,so far, video editing app. [01:09] i requested a live filesystem build from lamont, but didnt hear back yet [01:09] mhz, its the best we have in main [01:09] and i'd like to keep it ... but it doesnt really make sense if you cant use it ... [01:10] videos over ltsp give you ~10 frames a second [01:10] which is not better than a slideshow [01:10] lots of video stuff in development [01:10] but not mature [01:10] ogra: is that because of lack of video acceleration on the clients ? [01:10] might be, but i dont thik the video issue can be solved before dapper [01:11] Yagisan, its because you send the picture back and forth through the ssh connection [01:11] high traffic [01:11] if we once have local app support (approximately dapper+1) you will be able to use it [01:12] that would be fancy [01:12] ogra: not that it is necessarily possible, but as a tie in to the special needs in education (a.k.a. accessibility) video-based education for deaf students using sign language, would be sweet. But I'm just fantasizing. [01:12] ok, so much about the CD ... we'll have a install CD ready for flight2, i cant promise a liveCD before lamont came back to me ... please start testing [01:12] kjcole, as long as the base is not there, i cant do much ... [01:13] local apps is not on my list for this release [01:13] development in general : [01:13] i inspected willow .... anybody know willow ? [01:13] ogra: I wasn't suggesting you create it. Just tossing an idea out... planting seeds... [01:13] (except spacey ) [01:14] :o [01:14] kjcole, lets sit together fr dapper+1 if you have experience in this warea [01:14] i think jelkner and flint will do a dapper dance ...... ;) [01:14] willow is a content filter app written in pythin .... [01:14] python [01:14] not this early in the morning i won't... [01:14] ogra: that image is just too scary to comtemplate. [01:14] i'm dancing already! [01:15] its *not* requiring urllists or filter rules.... [01:15] oh neat! === spacey pictures flint dancing [01:15] wow [01:15] its based on bayesian filtering (similar to spamfilters) [01:15] ogra: re video, no experience. just wishes. [01:15] where do I find it (imagine Hindernburg landing at Lakehurst NJ.) [01:15] kjcole, feel free to work on it with me anyway ;) [01:15] ogra: is ldap on your list for this release? [01:15] ogra: sure. [01:15] ogra: does that mean we can run it on the server? [01:16] i'll package it up as soon as i got time ... [01:16] anyway i will look into willow in the next week and see what i can do [01:16] it requires some heavy packaging knowledge to get it right since i want a transparent proxy mode by default ... [01:16] but [01:17] it has a webbased gui i plan to replace with a desktop gui .... [01:17] complete replacement? optional would be nice? [01:17] i made some initial work available as bzr archive ... spacey expressed interest to work on it [01:17] nice. [01:17] for if you don't run it on the edubuntu machine but on a router [01:18] (Hindenburg landing at Lakehurst NJ := flint dancing for joy over willow :^) [01:18] you will be ale to enable the web gui, but i will disable it by default === PBurkholder [n=chatzill@c-67-162-138-236.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:18] the default conf app will be the desktop gui [01:18] ogra, fair enough :) [01:18] if you want to work on it, please make a bzr branch from my archive and make your work available in bzr on the web so i can merge it [01:19] http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ [01:19] ^^^ my bzr archives [01:19] ok ^_^ [01:19] flint: I think for willow, one should "weep" (for joy of course). [01:19] spacey, should we consider booting willow on a router as an outboard machine [01:19] outboard? [01:19] the basic glade gui stuff is done, it would be nice just to port the web gui functions for the backend [01:20] spacey, later... old idea... [01:20] ok [01:20] the plan since we still are on a single classroom solution is to run it on the server ... === jane_ [n=JaneW@dsl-146-171-180.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:20] as transparent proxy, configured to run by default [01:20] ah, the old python... [01:21] for goodness sake why does my line disconnect at 12:00UTC every wednesday....?!! [01:21] if and only if it gets ready in time before UVF, i'll try to get it on the CD [01:21] i'll give willow a testdrive on friday [01:21] else you'll have it in universe to install separately [01:21] JaneW: Telkom [01:21] (sorry about that *again*) [01:21] (and if i dont discover bad bugs indeed) [01:21] JaneW: You do seem to come and go a bit... [01:21] JaneW, do you know how much it costs us to have that done every week? Tell her guys! [01:21] highvoltage: but it's FINE the rest of the week.... *shakeshead* [01:22] the status of ltsp: [01:22] my ldm fixes are submitted to mdz for review, havent heard back yet .... [01:22] the multiarch patch Yagisan wrote is integrated and submitted to mdz .... havent heard back either [01:23] zimmerman just got back from San Francisco... === Yagisan hopes that gets merged soon [01:23] sound is not submittable integrated yet, my merge bugs for ubuntu currently take most of my dev time ... [01:24] Yagisan: congrats with your boy! [01:24] but all my work is available in my bzr archive for inspection, so feel free to bzr get it ;) [01:24] (see url above) [01:24] ^^^ +++ [01:24] ogra: and swapping over the network? [01:25] thanks. love to chat about him after meeting [01:25] highvoltage, .... [01:25] Yagisan, Jamie, is there a Jones sub-process? [01:25] to answer highvoltage, the specs are at mdz for review as well ... [01:25] ok. [01:25] the ThinClientMemoryUsage spec contains the network swap stuff... [01:26] as soon as its approved, i'll work on integrating that [01:26] as well as the FasterBootScpe and the SoundSpec [01:26] nice. it's quite essential, imo. [01:27] its already integrated in breezy [01:27] ogra: how far along is ThinClientMemoryUsage ? [01:27] but is not set up ... [01:27] ogra: i didn't know that, let's talk about that later then. [01:27] Yagisan, thats last on my priority list, since it depends on other stuff [01:27] ogra, what about block memory devices? Sound is optional in a crowded classroom [01:27] i.e. the faster boot spec [01:28] flint: especially since they're all listening to their iPod's anyway. [01:28] kjcole, or talking on their cell phones... [01:28] the local device spec is a= not done yet and b) depending on work of others who are very busy currently [01:28] what has the boot time been reduced to ? [01:29] Yagisan, hard to predict, i totally depend on Keybuks fixes of udev that havent hit dapper yet [01:29] ogra: the default edubuntu installer for release, will it use the ncurses d-i or u-e? [01:29] currently my thin client here (a very slow one) produces a bootchart with 50seconds [01:30] 50seconds not too bad. [01:30] highvoltage, we'll have two ... [01:30] highvoltage, I thought they used whiptail [01:30] d-i or u-e? [01:30] also, would multicast tftp help speed the boot process ? It could allow etherboot systems to load the kernel more efficently [01:30] the liveCD will have u-e but only install the workstation version [01:30] kjcole, debian installer or ubuntu-express [01:30] kjcole: debian-installer / ubuntu-express [01:30] te install cd will have d-i and install the server [01:30] kjcole: sorry, a bit lazy to type [01:30] ogra: after meeting - please tel me how to bootchart my terminals [01:31] Yagisan, sudo apt-get install bootchart in the chroot ;) [01:31] (works only in dapper) === Yagisan makes note to backport it [01:31] spacey, highvoltage: That's what I get for being an rpm guy in an obviously deb universe. Thanks. [01:31] Yagisan, you cant [01:31] it depends on certain features of initramfsafaik === highvoltage wonders if we could get the flying penguins thingie in ubuntu-express, or something similar, at least [01:32] highvoltage, feel free to chat with Kamion about that, i hav no extra dev time for working on express at all [01:32] cool. [01:32] ltsp is more important currently [01:33] completely agreed. [01:33] ok, thats all from my side for now ... if Kamion calls out for flight 2 tests, please start testing our CD, it should be fine by then ... [01:33] thanks ogra [01:34] oh, in a sidenote, the gobby main inclusion report is written and waiting for approval through pitti [01:34] I can;t belive none of my beaurocratic stuff came through int he beginning - maybe there's an admin filter here ;) [01:34] seems like you're way ahead of everyone, ogra. [01:34] ogra: yay :) [01:34] as soon as thats done i'll add it to the desktop [01:34] ogra, thanks for all the hard work, I have been rebuilding my Lab here in Vermont [01:34] ogra: thanks a 10**6! [01:34] flint, cool [01:35] ogra: yes well done you have been quietly working away haven't you? [01:35] JaneW, yup... [01:35] hard worker :) [01:35] but my merge bugs take a lot time currently [01:35] ogra: such a busy boy! [01:35] understood [01:35] so i cant as much as i would like :) [01:35] ogra: did you have a prepared summary? [01:35] America interrupted all meaningful work here with Thanksgiving Holiday [01:35] ogra: bis from here [01:35] i need to run (students arriving)... same time next week? [01:36] JaneW, nope, i'll merge it together from the log ... [01:36] ogra: if so please dump it in a PM for me - if not I'll distill from the logs... [01:36] can we talk about the website? [01:36] highvoltage: yes shoot [01:36] after the meeting [01:36] jelkner, go get 'em tiger! [01:36] ogra: ok [01:36] jelkner: did the how to work? [01:36] jelkner: bye, thanks [01:36] ciao jelkner [01:36] jelkner: Same Bat-Time, Same Bat-Channel [01:36] ok, let's do the biggest part first. [01:36] mhz: i'll look it over today, and get back to you [01:36] ok [01:37] Philip has convinced me that we should use Drupal for CMS on Edubuntu. [01:37] kjcole, Same Chat-Time, Same Chat-Channel :^) === PBurkholder_ [n=chatzill@vpn19.ucar.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:37] the biggest reason not to use it is because it's php based, and that can potentially open security vulnerabilities. [01:37] but ubuntu already uses php for some of the sites. [01:37] highvoltage, have fun with weekly php secuity updates ;) [01:38] s/weekly/daily [01:38] heh [01:38] ogra: sure [01:38] ogra: and it also runs alone on the edubuntu server, the risks are quite low, imo. [01:38] hno73 has some great ideas with the wiki. [01:39] if you got a security hole and little scriptkiddies put porn on the frontpage ..... [01:39] and while i think it will work perfectly with people familiar with wiki's, I don't think it will work well with our target market [01:39] :) [01:39] i.e. overworked underpaid teachers [01:39] ogra: i'll know it was you :P [01:39] hahaha [01:39] highvoltage: has he wikied his ideas? (i'd love to read them) [01:39] i have no clue about php :) [01:40] mhz: yes, he has [01:40] highvoltage, johnathan, you nailed it with the market description. [01:40] highvoltage: cool [01:40] http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuSitePublishingTools [01:40] i stay away from it as far as i can... dont fear me... fear 20yr younger kids ;) [01:40] http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWebsitePlan [01:40] http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuCommunityIntegration [01:40] highvoltage: duh! I wasn't subscribed :( [01:41] ogra: i avoid php too wherever i can, i do think drupal is the best tool for the job though [01:41] flint: ;) [01:42] highvoltage: I have heard good things about it [01:42] drupal will make it easier for us to manage the edubuntu documentation too. [01:42] and for the web team to add content. [01:42] highvoltage, http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=drupal [01:42] highvoltage: we could have a meeting about moin or something else? [01:42] wiki makes it easy too, but then we get back to our target market question [01:43] you should monitor the above page if you use it [01:43] highvoltage: drupal will not make it easier to remember PageNames :( [01:43] drupal, IIRC also gets grades ffrom the politically progressive crowd. Don't know much about drupal other than a lot of the radical, hippie, Green, etc progressives seem to drift towards it. === hunger [n=hunger@p54A63C9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:43] why not stick to the same as ubuntu? [01:43] kjcole: that's true and good feature === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:44] kjcole, takes a hippie to know a hippie! :^) [01:44] heya [01:44] hey jsgotangco [01:44] flint: Tune in, turn on (your computer), drop out. [01:45] kjcole, I mean that in the nicest way (damn hippie :^) [01:45] brb -sending kids^monsters to bed [01:45] jsgotangco: Hiya [01:46] are we meeting? [01:46] yup [01:46] indeed [01:46] jsgotangco: yup. [01:47] ok [01:47] geez, i must say, i'm a bit torn on this one (usually being a good decision maker) [01:47] highvoltage: what decision? [01:47] why not stick to the same as ubuntu? [01:47] drupal will suite our needs very well, but like ogra says, we don't want to end up with a site with porn on the front page [01:47] exactly [01:47] mhz: drupal as CMS for edubuntu [01:48] highvoltage: why can't we work closer to Moin wiki devels? [01:48] if someone cares for weekly updates of the server drupal is fine .... [01:48] its not really straight forwarded if edubuntu has everything completely different from ubuntu? [01:48] the thing is that the security stuff requires someone to care for it all the time [01:48] seems to labour intensive [01:48] highvoltage: this way we'll include what's missing [01:48] ogra: does the ubuntu-updates cover the security vulnerabilities for php? [01:48] is there another good option? === JaneW shudders ... that Kewl next gen thing? [01:49] highvoltage, i dont know the priority of drupal here ... but it should, yes [01:49] JaneW: sure, MoinMoin :) [01:49] highvoltage, my favorite dream app is a php interperter running in zope... [01:49] JaneW, Kewl is something else ... [01:49] well, if it isn't in main, someone needs to work full time on keeping it going, and secure [01:49] and has no security monitoring at all ... [01:49] so, let's try Drupal, if it gives us problems we change it. [01:49] ogra: from the demo I saw it seemed to have CMS stuff...? [01:50] JaneW, ogra: you fine with that? [01:50] you have to keep php patched for moodle... [01:50] highvoltage: if you are prepared to own it and keep it up to date and running... ;) [01:50] does anyone here know how to use Drupal ? [01:50] JaneW, yes, but its php based and has no big community yet ... so vulnerabilitys wont be found or known ... [01:50] there drupal is the better option [01:50] highvoltage: what about the 'scroring' feature of Trac (Trac is based in moin) [01:50] Yagisan: i've used drupal before [01:50] what was wrong with moinmoin? [01:50] ogra: ok (for the record I don't like it anyway) [01:50] heh [01:51] ogra: I'd rather go with drupal [01:51] Yagisan: i tried it twice [01:51] mhz: apparently drupal is quite good at those kind of things Philip talked alot about it. i think he called it taxonomy. [01:51] twice =2 diff. sites [01:51] JaneW, yes, but highvoltage will have a lot of work through it ... [01:51] JaneW, you don't like what? [01:51] highvoltage: yup [01:51] ok - I just don't think you should use anything that you can't administrate [01:51] spacey: KEWL.nextGen [01:51] highvoltage: taxonomy could easily be implemented in Moin, afailk [01:51] JaneW, if he's fine with potential weekly updates etc, it shouldnt be a problem [01:52] right, rings a bell, can't remember, and sounds nasty :P [01:52] mhz: let's not be too enthusaistic about Moin [01:52] :) [01:52] jsgotangco: not possible for me :) [01:52] JaneW, ogra: we can have it as a non-live site, proto.edubuntu.org with a htpassword, and once we're happy with it, it goes live. [01:52] mhz: i just find it creepy sometimes [01:52] highvoltage: cool [01:52] highvoltage, remember how you identify the pioneer, he is the guy with the arrow in his back... === JaneW finds moin finctional, but not mindblowing [01:52] JaneW, my only concern is that it needs someone who continiously has the time to fix stuff probably on a weekly base [01:52] highvoltage: jsgotangco: have you ever subscried to a page in Drupal === jsgotangco doesn't like Drupal [01:53] whats wrong with the stuff which edubuntu uses atm? [01:53] in the meantime, i'll educate myseld on the common problems with drupal, and php, and make sure our system starts out as secure as it can be === jsgotangco is *still* a zope person === Yagisan is still a plain html person - no sec worries there === highvoltage would like to be a zope person [01:53] highvoltage: would we have a regression path is we change our minds? [01:53] s/is/if [01:53] jsgotangco, oh thank you for the zope plug, and there is always plone! === highvoltage is currently a cgi .py person [01:54] flint: including plone of course [01:54] JaneW: we can have 2 backups [01:54] highvoltage, how external :^) === spacey likes dokuwiki ;x [01:54] ok no more free advertising guys :P [01:54] JaneW: we can more or less maintain our current site as a fallback, [01:54] and we can copy and paste from the drupal site to a new one, if we want. [01:54] Haven't personally tried anything but MoinMoin, but I've liked being able to understand the source I've looked at and tweak it a bit. Rare for me. (Done some of that with Mailman as well.) [01:54] ok, well then lets try and see how it goes, given that you have the time and inclination [01:54] we could also save some pages as .html and link them up, but that's just yucky. [01:54] JaneW: but yes, we can have fallbacks. [01:55] (and we will) [01:55] kjcole: me too, but it seems it's to try and 'technical' for the averegae teacher, from what I hear [01:55] kjcole: what can i say? i agree :) [01:55] i'll afk for 5 minutes go to rush to the drugstore [01:55] jsgotangco: Zope's a bit heavy for edubuntu, no? [01:55] kjcole: pretty much yeah [01:56] highvoltage, if you were really mad and blind with ambition, you would propose writing a python script which would update the current site to drupal. [01:56] you need zope if you are running schooltool [01:56] flint: if i were really mand and blind with ambition, i would write a python app that replaces drupal entirely :) [01:57] kjcole, why ? [01:57] are you mad and blind? [01:57] highvoltage, excellent point! i admire the mad. [01:57] spacey: only on wednesdays [01:57] highvoltage: are you sure that working with Moin devel guys won't let us have the missing features (still understand which, though) [01:57] :) [01:57] ok sleepy and blind with ambition [01:57] mhz: it will, but at a time price. [01:58] mhz: hno73 has lots of cool ideas, and have been following moinmoin quite extensively, and you can do everything we want to, but not quite yet. [01:58] ogra: In my limited experience, zope + plone just seemed to be "big", whereas moin seemed "small". No actual empirical evidence (other than watching the install process for both in RHEL3.) [01:58] some of the features take some extra coding, some are still being developed. [01:59] what it comes down to currently, is the usability. [01:59] that's more important to me now that functionality. [01:59] kjcole, but zope/ploe is safe ... [01:59] *plone [01:59] thats what we have now right? [01:59] i think it's better to have less features, but have a system that's easier to use. [01:59] kjcole, and requires nearly no admin work after being set up ... [01:59] spacey: ubuntu is partially plone [02:00] highvoltage: the only features I understand Drupal have over Moin is Forum, Voting, and Polls. The rest I think are all implementavle. But IMHO, drupal has less total features than moin. [02:00] ok time's up, and we only discussed technical and webiste... [02:00] was there anything else? [02:00] can we have more time? [02:00] personally i don't like plone, but i do think it is quite nice to have the same system as ubuntu, not to confuse endusers with different systems [02:00] what happened in the ally meeting last week? [02:00] JaneW, I agree enough about the factory back to the product === PBurkholder__ [n=chatzill@vpn2.ucar.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === PBurkholder__ is now known as PBurkholder [02:00] highvoltage: good point usability v/s funcioanlity [02:01] ogra: Safe is good. ;-) But after setting up both, I found myself regularly updating my Moin pages, and fearing Zope/Plone. Three books on Zope, and no books on Moin. [02:01] highvoltage: sure, thing is I have a commitment at 15:10 each day, so the meetings need to be pretty punctual [02:01] ` [02:01] okay, for those interested, please join the web team on launchpad [02:01] https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-website [02:01] please guys feel free to update the tables in http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MeetingRecords [02:01] JaneW, why so obsessive about lunch? [02:01] even if we don;t get to discussing the stuff it can still be in the status reprts [02:01] ogra: (I mean I have three books on Zope, and no books on Moin). So from a non-techie point of view... [02:02] also, from the TSF side, i'm working on some documentation for Edubuntu for our Edubuntu roll-out in April/June next year [02:02]