[12:28] <jordi> kiko-zzz: oh man
[12:28] <jordi> mpt: awake?
[12:28] <jordi> kiko-zzz: how can you be sleeping alreadY?
[01:10] <kiko-zzz> jordi, I'm not asleep
[01:10] <kiko-zzz> but I will be soon
[01:10] <kiko-zzz> what's up?
[02:41] <jblack> Where do you guys get instructions about how to perform rocketfuel hacking? The bzr specific parts
[02:45] <jblack> (I need to update the documentation)
[02:56] <stub> jblack: RocketFuelSetup and PQMSetup are the main pages I think (launchpad wiki)
[02:57] <jblack> thanks
[03:04] <jblack> are you guys still using "baz" ? 
[03:06] <lifeless> no
[03:06] <jblack> Ok. I'll take that out then
[03:37] <jblack> PQMSetup is ancient
[04:33] <lifeless> I updated PQMSetup just recently.
[04:54] <zakame> hello :) how do I change my destination addy for my @ubuntu.com addy?  I was pointed that it can be done by changing the primary email at lp, and I've done so, but to no effect...
[07:43] <sivang> Morning
[07:59] <jamesh> hi sivang 
[08:05] <sivang> hey jamesh , how's stuff?
[08:06] <jamesh> good
[08:24] <c0i0t3> ae galera..alguem pode me ajudar com a instalao do ubuntu ?!?!
[08:25] <jblack> c0i0t3: ?habla ingles? 
[08:25] <c0i0t3> jblack no ... s portugues
[08:26] <jblack> el tiempo es malo por portugues (Yo no hablo porgugues, pero espanol.. malo espanol!)
[08:26] <jblack> carlos! 
[08:26] <c0i0t3> =\
[08:26] <carlos> morning
[08:27] <c0i0t3> alguem brasileiro ae ?!?!?!
[08:27] <carlos> jblack, ;-)
[08:27] <jblack> carlos: feel like giving some distro assistance in your natural lingua?
[08:27] <carlos> jblack, dude, I'm spanish....
[08:27] <jamesh> c0i0t3: the brazillians should be up soon
[08:28] <jblack> I thought you were brazilian? 
[08:28] <carlos> jblack, ;-)
[08:28] <carlos> jblack, lamont too :-D
[08:28] <c0i0t3> sou brasileiro galera.... nao falo portugues
[08:28] <jblack> jamesh: He lives in brazil. :) 
[08:28] <c0i0t3> =] 
[08:29] <jblack> c0i0t3: habla con "cprov" en cinco horas, por favor.
[08:29] <c0i0t3> jblack pra mim voltar daqui 5 horas?
[08:29] <carlos> c0i0t3, Os povos brazilian estaro aqui logo, em aproximadamente trs ou quatro horas
[08:30] <carlos> c0i0t3, si
[08:30] <jblack> cprov es do brazilia
[08:30] <carlos> cprov, salgado ou kiko
[08:30] <c0i0t3> carlos certo.. obrigado em brother =] 
[08:30] <carlos> c0i0t3, obrigado
[08:30] <c0i0t3> carlos vc fala portugues?
[08:30] <jblack> I hope I get points for trying. :) 
[08:31] <jamesh> c0i0t3: try #ubuntu-br or #ubuntu-pt
[08:31] <carlos> c0i0t3, No., pesaroso, somente espanhol
[08:31] <c0i0t3> carlos blz.. valeu =] 
[08:31] <c0i0t3> jamesh obrigado =] 
[08:32] <carlos> c0i0t3,  Eu estou usando Google traduzir:-P
[08:32] <c0i0t3> carlos a t... risos... 
[08:33] <c0i0t3> carlos mais voc no poderia me ajudar aqui ento no ?
[08:34] <carlos> ele  um bocado difcil traduzindo tudo., poderia voc tentar # ubuntu-Br?
[08:35] <c0i0t3> carlos beleza ento =]  .. valeu
[08:35] <sivang> jblack: lol
[08:39] <sivang> translate.google.com just let's me in the search form, do they also offer a bable fish service like vista does?
[08:41] <jamesh> sivang: http://www.google.com/language_tools or http://translate.google.com/translate_t
[08:43] <sivang> wow
[08:43] <sivang> nice
[08:43] <sivang> although I can't really check if it's a "good" translation, and not a word-to-word
[08:44] <carlos> sivang, I was using that page to "speak" portuguese
[08:44] <carlos> sivang, it's not word-to-word
[08:44] <carlos> sivang, but is not perfect either
[08:45] <carlos> at least Spanish <-> English
[08:45] <sivang> Manh boa a todos os brazillians nesta canaleta!  Eu quero saber se voc puder me compreender.
[08:45] <sivang> :)
[08:46] <sivang> carlos: I wonder if it does portugeese any better :)
[08:46] <carlos> sivang, no idea, you should ask celso, salgado or kiko
[08:46] <carlos> or any other brazilian ;-)
[08:49] <carlos> spiv, "Adds an option to test.py to stop running tests after the first failure." <- Thank you!!
[08:49] <jamesh> carlos: I wonder if it does portuguese portuguese or brazillian portuguese?
[08:50] <carlos> jamesh, I suppose it's portuguese portuguese
[08:50] <carlos> the brazilian one usually is noted as brazilian...
[08:52] <jamesh> I think there are more speakers of the brazilian variant though
[08:54] <carlos> jamesh, right
[09:12] <carlos> carlos@aragorn:~/Work/Canonical/TranslationUploads$ bzr merge ../archive/launchpad-upstream/launchpad/
[09:12] <carlos> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 24: ordinal not in range(128)
[09:12] <carlos>   at /usr/lib/python2.4/codecs.py line 178
[09:12] <carlos>   in write
[09:12] <carlos> lifeless, ?
[09:24] <carlos> any bzr expert?
[09:25] <jamesh> carlos: does the .bzr.log file give any indication of the problem?
[09:27] <carlos> jamesh, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileyhHGuf.html
[09:29] <carlos> I think the problem comes from my previous merge into rocketfuel
[09:30] <carlos> bzr is not able to handle the non ascii chars in my surname when merging it into rocketfuel...
[09:30] <carlos> is the only guess I can do there...
[09:31] <jamesh> I'm not sure
[09:48] <stub> SteveA, lifeless: Am I going to break anyone/anything if I need to start my leave next week instead of the 12th?
[10:00] <SteveA> spiv: ping
[10:00] <spiv> SteveA: pong
[10:01] <SteveA> hello spiv.  how's the supermirror work going?
[10:04] <spiv> Alright, if a slowly.  I feel like I've got momentum again, though.
[10:04] <SteveA> can we spend a while talking about it in detail?
[10:04] <spiv> Sure.
[10:04] <SteveA> do you have skype set up?
[10:05] <spiv> No.  I haven't tried sound of any sort on this PC yet, actually.
[10:06] <SteveA> okay, let's have a phone call.
[10:06] <spiv> Ok.  My land line is best.
[10:17] <stub> Is there a skype package for Ubuntu anywhere?
[10:19] <BjornT> stub: would it be hard (or a bad idea) to make the mailer in production behave like the one used in testing ( or vice versa)? currently in production, emails are sent immediately, while in testing only when the transaction is commited.
[10:19] <stub> emails are only sent when the transaction is committed
[10:19] <stub> on both production and staging
[10:20] <sivang> stub: let me fetch you a link. You better use the one statically linked and shiped with the required qt libs
[10:23] <lifeless> stub: fine by me
[10:23] <BjornT> stub: it doesn't seem like that. if something goes wrong in the email ui, an email is sent, but no comment is added to the bug. (the comment gets added to the bug -> an event gets fired off sending the email -> the transaction is aborted)
[10:23] <stub> lifeless: Ta. I should have everything confirmed tomorrow (damn visas!)
[10:24] <BjornT> stub: maybe there's something wrong in my code, though, i'll check again
[10:26] <sivang> stub: http://www.skype.com/go/getskype-linux-static , that's not a deb package, but a statically compiled binary. but unless you want to do some hand dependency resolution, that's the best approach I think
[10:26] <stub> BjornT: In theory, the only way of sending an email from a transaction that is later aborted is to bypass the Z3 mail api and use smtplib or similar directly. If that is not the case, it would indicate a Z3 bug.
[10:27] <stub> sivang: Ta
[10:28] <jamesh> BjornT: w.r.t. the bugzilla-import branch, I think I will go the route of disabling the event subscribers as the short term solution
[10:28] <jamesh> BjornT: while making the script run as a real Launchpad user would get rid of the exceptions, it would also result in a lot of email being generated ...
[10:29] <BjornT> stub: just thought of something, this is when using initZopeless. should i still expect emails to be sent only on transaction commits?
[10:29] <stub> BjornT: initZopeless sends emails immediately
[10:30] <BjornT> jamesh: does it matter that they would be generated, if you change the config option, so that emails won't get sent?
[10:30] <stub> BjornT: The Z3 apis aren't available, so it talks smtplib directly instead (it should all be in the docstrings)
[10:30] <jamesh> BjornT: maybe that's the best solution then.
[10:30] <jordi> kiko-zzz: too late!
[10:30] <jordi> I was sleeping
[10:31] <SteveA> lifeless: ping
[10:32] <SteveA> lifeless: can you come onto #canonical-meeting for a chat with me and spiv?
[10:32] <BjornT> stub: if the script uses execute_zcml_for_scripts, won't the z3 api be available?
[10:33] <BjornT> stub: if not, can you think of an easy way of getting the same behaviour as initZopeless, in my tests?
[10:33] <stub> BjornT: No - it might be an easy fix, but I don't think anyone has looked at wiring it up
[10:35] <SteveA> hmm, this looks like something i can talk about...
[10:37] <jordi> SteveA: yesterday I was looking for you in case you wanted to have a read of my mail to the list
[10:37] <jordi> carlos gave me his ok
[10:37] <SteveA> jordi: i will read it soon
[10:38] <SteveA> stub: is there anything i need to help out with to do with email / init_zopeless etc. ?
[10:40] <stub> SteveA: You can do it if you have time - I haven't looked into it and am not that familiar with the ZCML machinery. There is a chance it is already working if the relevant ZCML directives are added!
[10:41] <stub> Refactoring lib/canonical/mail to use it though will require thought - some of the zopeless stuff will be relying on the existing behavior (rosetta export failed etc.)
[10:41] <carlos> elmo, is there any problem with the mailing lists?
[10:41] <carlos> elmo, I sent an email about an hour ago and I don't see it in the mailing list
[10:42] <carlos> elmo, my logs say that your server accepted the email
[10:42] <Znarl> carlos : I can check for you.  From address?
[10:42] <carlos> Znarl, carlos.perello@canonical.com
[10:42] <carlos> Znarl, to launchpad@lists.canonical.com
[10:42] <carlos> Znarl, thanks
[10:42] <SteveA> stub: what do you want the zcml to do?
[10:44] <stub> SteveA: The existing directives are enough - it just needs to be made to work in the Zopeless environment. I suppose first thing to test is if it is already working.
[10:45] <SteveA> in the zopeless environment, we exclude browser:... directives
[10:45] <SteveA> and load zcml, starting at the script.zcml file
[10:47] <stub> These are mail: directives
[10:47] <stub> package-includes/mail*.zcml
[10:48] <SteveA> i don't think we use package-includes for scripts
[10:48] <SteveA> if not, they should be included directly in script.zcml
[10:49] <lifeless> SteveA: hey so..
[10:50] <lifeless> I've been thinking about overall test suite speed
[10:50] <lifeless> we talked last week about more focused testing
[10:51] <lifeless> with cheaper objects as the surrounding infrastructure.
[10:51] <SteveA> yes
[10:51] <lifeless> i.e. an in memory db like zodb rather than the full mccoy for when we are testing the web presentation layer
[10:51] <SteveA> but, the need to retain the "intuitiveness" that we have with full-system testing
[10:52] <lifeless> right
[10:52] <lifeless> and also
[10:52] <SteveA> maybe not zodb, maybe sqlite or something
[10:52] <lifeless> we dont want to test with one implementation and then run with another with no way to validate that they both actually implement the interface
[10:52] <lifeless> $fasterdb
[10:53] <carlos> lifeless, hi
[10:53] <carlos> lifeless, do you have sometime to help me with a bzr problem?
[10:53] <lifeless> carlos: not right now - in a discussion with SteveA 
[10:53] <lifeless> have you tried getting help on #bzr ?
[10:53] <carlos> lifeless, yes, no answers
[10:53] <lifeless> ok, will come back to you after this meeting and th next
[10:53] <carlos> lifeless, please, ping me when you finish, ok?
[10:54] <carlos> lifeless, thank you
[10:55] <lifeless> SteveA: so it seems to me that a prerequisite to being able to do that is being able to fully validate implementations
[10:55] <lifeless> which reduces/removes that risk
[10:56] <lifeless> it may also make it more clear and intuitive to people that we are testing $layer if we have explicit areas for tests for each layer.
[10:56] <lifeless> so I'm thinking that the following may be very useful in bringing us towards this goal:
[10:58] <lifeless> A TestWithInterface (or similar name) that takes: a group of interfaces that are logically grouped; a list of groups of classes where each group implements that set of interfaces
[10:58] <lifeless> a test case that tests the group.
[10:59] <lifeless> and a test case to run with whichever group is the one use as a fast implementation
[10:59] <lifeless> this class would:
[10:59] <lifeless> make a deep copy of the test case that tests the group
[10:59] <lifeless> run the resulting copies against one set of implementors
[11:00] <lifeless> then with the nominated 'fast' implementation run the other provided test case.
[11:00] <lifeless> ---
[11:01] <SteveA> lifeless: i get some of the idea, and i like the sound of it.  i'd like to talk this over with you using voice sometime.
[11:01] <SteveA> we should talk supermirror sftp now, though
[11:01] <lifeless> sure
[11:05] <sivang> stub: Ta is like "thanks" ?
[11:07] <stub> sivang: Yes
[11:08] <sivang> oh :)
[11:09] <Znarl> carlos : I found your email.  You'll see it appear shortly on the list.
[11:09] <carlos> Znarl, what's the problem with it?
[11:09] <carlos> Znarl, thanks
[11:10] <Znarl> Small oversight with the migration of the lists hardware I am correcting now.
[11:14] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  Added some plural forms and improved the Rosetta's about page. (2873: Carlos Perell Marn)
[11:15] <carlos> Znarl, ok, cool
[11:20] <lifeless> dilys: yay!
[11:20] <lifeless> daf: danke
[11:22] <jamesh> nice.
[11:25] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: Fix 5122 https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/5122 (System error on validate team email page). r=salgado (2870: Diogo Matsubara, Guilherme Salgado)
[11:25] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  fix 3924, 5188 and remove the bugmail footer (2871: Brad Bollenbach)
[11:25] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  Tweak sampledata for stress-testing of Rosetta templates; fix <https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/2234> 'Make translations more discoverable for unpublished packages' (2874: Matthew Paul Thomas)
[11:29] <dholbach> hi
[11:29] <dholbach> can i somehow remove a bug watch?
[11:30] <dholbach> erm
[11:30] <dholbach> a bug tracker
[11:30] <dholbach> the savannah one didn't work out
[11:43] <jamesh> dholbach: not through the web interface
[11:44] <dholbach> i see
[11:44] <dholbach> jamesh: thanks. who do i have to ask to remove it?
[11:44] <jamesh> dholbach: I think stub would be able to
[11:44] <dholbach> thanks
[11:45] <dholbach> stub: would you be so kind and remove the savannah bugtracker from launchpad - it didn't work out - but take youre time, it's not ultra-urgent
[11:50] <jamesh> dholbach: from my reading of the code, you can't add "the savannah bug tracker"
[11:50] <jamesh> dholbach: you could add a bug tracker for "project $FOO on savannah" though
[11:51] <ajmitch_1> jamesh: which gets quite unwieldy
[11:51] <ajmitch_1> as the whole list of bugtrackers shows up any time you want to add a bug watch, afaik
[11:52] <dholbach> jamesh: dunno if that's correct, the url is http://savannah.nongnu.org/bugs/?func=detailitem&item_id=<bla> for all of them (no matter which project)
[11:52] <lifeless> dholbach: we assume that bugtracker urls are project specific
[11:53] <jamesh> dholbach: so you don't need to get the three numbers correct to see an item?
[11:53] <lifeless> dholbach: this is important in the general case
[11:53] <dholbach> lifeless: "gnome" is one project? :-p
[11:54] <lifeless> dholbach: also we would not want savannah showing up for each and every project 
[11:54] <dholbach> lifeless: me neither
[11:54] <lifeless> carlos: so whats up ?
[11:54] <lifeless> dholbach: no, gnome products just setup their own bugtracker reference
[11:54] <dholbach> lifeless: that's not what i intended
[11:56] <carlos> lifeless, https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileyhHGuf.html
[11:56] <daf> lifeless: keine probleme
[11:56] <carlos> lifeless, jblack just ping me to help me
[11:59] <stub> dholbach: Done
[12:00] <dholbach> SteveA: merci beaucoup
[12:08] <matsubara> good morning!
[12:10] <niemeyer> Morning launchpaders!
[12:26] <lifeless> SteveA: ping
[12:28] <kiko-zzz> morning
[12:30] <jamesh> hi kiko
[12:30] <salgado> lifeless, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileJD1cEN.html
[12:31] <salgado> lifeless, have you seen this before? or maybe it's a known problem?
[12:31] <cprov> jamesh: hi, any idea about the glibc error in one of my branches ?
[12:32] <kiko> hello jamesh 
[12:32] <kiko> cprov, I think it's the same error BjornT is having, right?
[12:32] <kiko> isn't it a psycopg issue?
[12:32] <cprov> kiko: right
[12:32] <mpt_> jordi, I'm awake now
[12:32] <jamesh> cprov: no
[12:33] <BjornT> kiko: it looks like a pyme issue
[12:33] <jamesh> cprov: I can't reproduce it on my x86 laptop either :(
[12:33] <cprov> BjornT: uhm ... could be
[12:33] <jamesh> pyme reminds me of why I dropped swig when developing pygtk
[12:34] <jordi> mpt_: late, thanks. I was looking for someone with admin rights
[12:34] <kiko> pyme? interesting.
[12:35] <kiko> hey jordi 
[12:35] <kiko> you wanted to talk to me yesterday?
[12:35] <jordi> same thing, I needed an admin to tweak mailman
[12:35] <kiko> what list?
[12:35] <jamesh> cprov: just to help narrow things down, you're running Breezy right?
[12:35] <jordi> but luckily it was registered by Registry Administrators, so I could change the ownership to bary
[12:36] <kiko> oh
[12:36] <jamesh> (trying to think of what's different between my system and your one)
[12:36] <cprov> jamesh: yes, breezy, security synced, in a pentium M 1.7
[12:36] <mpt_> jordi, I'm a Launchpad admin, if that's enough
[12:39] <jamesh> kiko: so it looks like one person has managed to register a sign-only key on Launchpad now
[12:40] <kiko> jamesh, that's awesome -- but shouldn't there be more?
[12:41] <jamesh> kiko: I don't know.  I haven'
[12:41] <jamesh> t seen any new bugs filed about the problem
[12:41] <salgado> $ bzr merge /mondo/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/prebuilt/
[12:41] <salgado> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 24: ordinal not in range(128)
[12:41] <salgado>   at /usr/lib/python2.4/codecs.py line 178
[12:41] <salgado>   in write
[12:41] <jordi> mpt: I think so, if you can edit product info
[12:41] <salgado> anybody seen this before?
[12:41] <jamesh> salgado: carlos has
[12:42] <salgado> carlos, did you manage to workaround it?
[12:42] <kiko> salgado, we had  a problem with that a long time ago when we were assuming log messages were ascii, IIRC
[12:47] <carlos> salgado, no, talking with lifeless atm 
[12:47] <carlos> salgado, we are going to debug it
[12:47] <lifeless> jamesh: I had it happen to me
[12:48] <lifeless> carlos: I'm going to fob you off onto mpool actually
[12:48] <lifeless> carlos: if I can find him
[12:48] <carlos> ok
[12:49] <carlos> lifeless, we have the launchpad meeting in 10 minutes so it's not a big problem if he's not around yet. Anyway, bzr says that the download will take 3 hours...
[12:49] <lifeless> it will improve
[12:49] <carlos> hmm, back to 1 hour
[12:49] <lifeless> it lies badly
[12:50] <kiko> lifeless, I wanted to talk to him too..
[12:51] <lifeless> kiko: ... can I pass on a message ?
[12:52] <kiko> that I wanted to talk to him :)
[12:52] <lifeless> ok
[12:52] <lifeless> I suggest mail though ;)
[12:52] <SteveA>   https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MeetingAgenda   <--- now is your last chance to propose new items for the agenda
[12:53] <SteveA> workrave now if you need to.  meeting in 8 mins
[12:53] <kiko> SteveA, do I just add a new item myself?
[12:53] <SteveA> add it to proposed items
[12:53] <SteveA> along with your name
[12:53] <SteveA> and i'll put it into the agenda when i do the final formatting of it
[12:54] <SteveA> there is a section "proposed items"
[12:54] <kiko> welcome to december
[12:54] <SteveA> happy mailman day
[12:58] <carlos> ;-)
[12:59] <kiko> hello bradb_ good morning
[12:59] <jblack> bradb: Thanks for the plan. :) 
[12:59] <lifeless> I'm here but getting a snack
[12:59] <bradb_> hey kiko, jblack
[12:59] <SteveA> START OF LAUNCHPAD DEVELOPMENT MEETING
[01:00] <SteveA> who's here today?
[01:00] <bradb_> me
[01:00] <kiko> me in caps
[01:00] <gneuman> me
[01:00] <spiv> me
[01:00] <jblack> me
[01:00] <salgado> me
[01:00] <daf> me
[01:00] <matsubara> me
[01:00] <jblack> stevea: me or /me? 
[01:00] <BjornT> me
[01:00] <ddaa> heyo
[01:00] <jamesh> me
[01:01] <kiko> salgado, wake up cprov/niemeyer
[01:01] <SteveA> niemeyer: ?
[01:01] <kiko> they are engrossed in conversation
[01:01] <niemeyer> me
[01:01] <niemeyer> me
[01:01] <niemeyer> me
[01:01] <SteveA> jblack: it is easiest for me if everyone says something, rather than emotes something
[01:01] <niemeyer> :-)
[01:01] <ddaa> Cool, we needed more of those.
[01:01] <cprov> kiko: wake up you -> (10:00:17) ***cprov me
 me
[01:01] <SteveA> do we have a full house today?
[01:01] <SteveA> no apologies?
[01:02] <SteveA> no vacation?
[01:02] <kiko> cprov, sorry, emoting is hard to read
[01:02] <lifeless> mpool is awol
[01:02] <jblack> mpool?
[01:02] <kiko> stub?
[01:02] <lifeless> but not strictly required either
[01:02] <cprov> kiko: np, sorry if I was rude ...
[01:02] <SteveA> hi mpool 
[01:02] <kiko> mpool!
[01:02] <mpool> hi guys
[01:02] <kiko> the man himself!
[01:03] <SteveA> welcome daf.  daf will be starting work half time on monday.
[01:03] <mpool> welcome back daf!
[01:03] <SteveA> we have a big agenda today
[01:03] <daf> thanks
[01:03] <SteveA> so, i'll be asking everyone to keep things moving
[01:03] <SteveA> 
[01:03] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Next meeting (discuss changing this, RobertCollins)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Items from last meeting
[01:03] <Kinnison> welcome daf
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Production / staging (stub)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Production gina run (stub)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * QA work for launchpad (RobertCollins)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Review team notice (RobertCollins)
[01:03] <SteveA>  * Bug 3996: Code of conduct security issue (Kiko)
[01:03] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3996: code of conduct signing procedure forces signer to open themselves up to possible attack In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3996
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Finalize policy for catching of exceptions (Kiko, Steve)
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Finalize policy for method naming (Niemeyer, Steve)
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Bzr work status -- PQM, merge bug, other bugs (RobertCollins) 
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
[01:04] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:04] <SteveA> 
[01:04] <SteveA> the next meeting...
[01:04] <SteveA> lifeless: asked that it be put at a different time.
[01:04] <SteveA> lifeless: ?
[01:04] <lifeless> yes
[01:04] <lifeless> its currently 11pm
[01:04] <jblack> yes! No more 7 am!
[01:04] <bradb> indeed
[01:04] <mpt> (I'm here, btw, I got distracted by #ubuntu-desktop)
[01:04] <lifeless> and thinking is not very effective at this point.
[01:04] <lifeless> I am wondering about a ~12 hour shift
[01:04] <kiko> if you want to move it back 1h we're okay but the north americans are not
[01:04] <lifeless> if that would work better
[01:04] <mpool> it tends to make me ineffective the next day
[01:05] <lifeless> other end of everyones day
[01:05] <Kinnison> It seems to me that we may need to split the meeting into two parts
[01:05] <ddaa> lifeless: I won't have no 1am meeting
[01:05] <lifeless> ddaa: well, a 8 hour shift then - something like that
[01:05] <ddaa> +8 hours okay with me
[01:05] <mpool> who is furthest east in europe? stevea?
[01:05] <lifeless> I'm happy to coordinate given a list of TZ's and see if a better time is available
[01:05] <jordi> aloha
[01:05] <SteveA> i have a proposal
[01:06] <SteveA> let's not discuss this any more right here
[01:06] <SteveA> let's have a wiki page, major headings are proposals of meeting time, day of week, time UTC
[01:06] <SteveA> beneath the heading, you may rate it out -1, -0, +0, +1, along with your name
[01:07] <SteveA> then, next meeting, or before if you do it quickly, we'll evaluate this
[01:07] <SteveA> and choose a time
[01:07] <kiko> sounds good
[01:07] <SteveA> lifeless: will you put up this page?
[01:07] <mpool> good
[01:07] <lifeless> can everyone please put their TZ there ?
[01:07] <lifeless> SteveA: I will do that and mail the list the url.
[01:07] <SteveA> ok, thanks lifeless 
[01:07] <carlos> ok
[01:07] <kiko> in terms of UTC + offset
[01:07] <lifeless> I won't propose a time until we have the TZ's there.
[01:07] <lifeless> kiko++
[01:07] <SteveA>  * Activity reports
[01:07] <kiko> not those whacky acronyms
[01:08] <jblack> uptodate
[01:08] <spiv> I am up to date.
[01:08] <kiko> I'm the fatsam
[01:08] <lifeless> missing yesterdays
[01:08] <BjornT> i'm up to day
[01:08] <mpt> I'm behind, but I'll be up to date within the next hour
[01:08] <ddaa> yo spiv, I'm up to date
[01:08] <salgado> I'm up to date
[01:08] <niemeyer> I'm up to date, as of 10 minutes ago :)
[01:08] <jordi> out of date
[01:08] <carlos> I started again on Tuesday and owe yesterday's report
[01:08] <lifeless> sent it in now
[01:08] <matsubara> I'm up to date
[01:08] <gneuman> up to date
[01:09] <mpool> up to date, but keep leaving them for a few days
[01:09] <SteveA> i want to say that kiko and i have been doing the staff appraisals this week, and we're looking over activity reports for this.  use activity reports to show what you've been doing.  be proud of telling us what you've been doing, day by day.
[01:10] <SteveA> thank you to all the people who are up to date this week.
[01:11] <mpool> thanks for letting us know that
[01:11] <SteveA> jblack, spiv, kiko, lifeless, BjornT, mpt (i'll check you sent it!), salgado, niemeyer, bradb, matsubara, gneuman, mpool, cprov 
[01:11] <kiko> we're not /only/ looking at them of course
[01:11] <SteveA> thanks to these people for being up to date
[01:11] <niemeyer> SteveA: Btw, gtimelog server is out right now.. are you aware if the upstream is gone or if it's something temporary?
[01:11] <niemeyer> (web server, that is)
[01:11] <SteveA> niemeyer: ask mgedmin on #pov
[01:11] <niemeyer> Right, thanks
[01:12] <SteveA> although, it should be in universe in ubuntu
[01:12] <SteveA>  * Items from last meeting
[01:12] <SteveA> Actions from the last meeting:
[01:12] <SteveA>  * MeetingAction: kiko, organise lauchpad user community meeting.
[01:12] <SteveA>  * MeetingAction: SteveA to summarize the meeting.
[01:12] <kiko> I have done nothing in that direction.
[01:12] <SteveA> also, an agenda item of changing the meeting time, which we already discussed
[01:12] <SteveA> kiko: will you keep at it this week?
[01:12] <kiko> what is a good way to go forward with that plan?
[01:12] <kiko> add a notice to the front page and IRC topic?
[01:13] <kiko> I can do it if someone helps me figure out what to do.
[01:13] <SteveA> kiko: maybe we can ask jblack and jordi to do it?
[01:13] <SteveA> these are our community specialists
[01:13] <kiko> well
[01:13] <SteveA> or, maybe someone from the launchpad channel can offer to help?
[01:13] <kiko> what concerns me is how we are going to publicize the list and meeting
[01:13] <SteveA> mail the meeting to the list
[01:13] <kiko> we /could/ use one of the ubuntu lists..
[01:14] <jblack> I'd be thrilled to do the writeups.
[01:14] <jordi> kiko: our mailing lists, maybe the Fridge?
[01:14] <SteveA> the fridge
[01:14] <SteveA> yeah
[01:14] <SteveA> sounder?
[01:14] <kiko> okay
[01:14] <SteveA> ask mdz / jdub / mako for advice?
[01:14] <kiko> jordi, jblack: let's talk about this through email? I'll start a thread.
[01:14] <jblack> kiko: Sure.
[01:14] <SteveA> ok
[01:14] <SteveA>  * Production / staging (stub)
[01:14] <kiko> cool
[01:15] <jordi> sounder, fridge, launchpad-users (not many users right now, I guess), rosetta-users
[01:16] <jordi> kiko: sure thing
[01:16] <SteveA> okay, let's skip forward
[01:16] <SteveA>  * QA work for launchpad (RobertCollins)
[01:16] <SteveA> lifeless: 
[01:16] <lifeless> yup
[01:16] <lifeless> thats me ;)
[01:16] <lifeless> so SteveA and I talked on the phone last week about some general issues
[01:16] <lifeless> there are a number of top level ones:
[01:17] <lifeless> - helping you guys write more effective tests - tests that are easier to debug and more robust against random breakage
[01:17] <lifeless> - making the test suite complete before the universe dies of entropy
[01:17] <lifeless> - giving the test.py ui a facelift to make common things like 'run 1 story' actually work.
[01:18] <lifeless> I've been considering these and doing some profiling and testing of the test environment
[01:18] <kiko> the latter is very very very useful
[01:18] <bradb> very very very indeed
[01:18] <kiko> I mean I would pay DOLLARS to have that working
 - Making test.py less of a shell script and more of a python program.
[01:19] <lifeless> niemeyer: thats a implementation detail ;)
[01:19] <lifeless> anyway
[01:19] <niemeyer> lifeless: Interesting answer for a QA guy :-)
[01:19] <SteveA> lifeless: done?
[01:19] <lifeless> I have a much longer list of feature requests and various specific issues
[01:19] <lifeless> I'm going to publish that to get feedback on and input into
[01:19] <Kinnison> lifeless: wikipage?
[01:20] <lifeless> but those three things are the top level drivers that I'm hearing from Steve, and thus are guiding the time I spend on QA for launchpad
[01:20] <kiko> I would like to point something out
[01:20] <lifeless> Kinnison: will email the list when I do that
[01:20] <kiko> at the moment I am 1000x more concerned with bzr working for us than with an effort to improve QA infra
[01:20] <Kinnison> lifeless: thanks
[01:20] <lifeless> SteveA: yes I'm finished
[01:21] <kiko> so lifeless, how do you feel wrt to that point, given you are our bzr user contact?
[01:21] <niemeyer> +1
[01:21] <kiko> lifeless?
[01:21] <lifeless> kiko: I think that the lp team gets priority from me and mpool for bugfixes
[01:21] <ddaa> all the rest is annoying, but not blocking
[01:21] <lifeless> some things are obviously easier to fix than others
[01:22] <lifeless> the merge thing that I finally got fully corrected yesterday is an example of 'not easy'
[01:22] <kiko> I am unaware of the state of obviousness though and perhaps others are too
[01:22] <Kinnison> lifeless: which "merge thing" is this?
[01:22] <SteveA> we've talked about having a bzr plugin so that we don't have to use rsync directly
[01:22] <lifeless> carlos current bug with unicode & fetch is I suspect and example of 'quite easy' - I've asked mpool to tackle that one
[01:22] <jblack> Is there a wiki page listing lp priorities? 
[01:22] <ddaa> SteveA: that's already exist...
[01:22] <jblack> Same -1 0 +1 concept?
[01:22] <ddaa> bzr push host:/path
[01:22] <thisfred> Hi, quick Malone question: is it possible to subscribe (i.e. be notified by email) to all the bugs for one project?
[01:23] <daf> jblack: good idea
[01:23] <lifeless> thisfred: not at the moment sorry
[01:23] <bradb> thisfred: not yet (hey eric)
[01:23] <kiko> thisfred, not yet, but it will be possible with some caveats
[01:23] <SteveA> ddaa: not what i'm talking about i think.
[01:23] <thisfred> hey brad!
[01:23] <mpool> i think a launchpad giving priorities for issues or bugs would be good
[01:23] <jordi> welcome sivang 
[01:23] <mpt> Malone already has a priority field, mpool
[01:23] <kiko> mpool, wouldn't just using malone be better?
[01:23] <SteveA> we need to move this on, because this agenda item isn't about bzr
[01:23] <kiko> ok.
[01:23] <kiko> my concern remains though
[01:23] <SteveA>  * Review team notice (RobertCollins)
[01:24] <lifeless> The review team hasnt had any meetings since UBZ, next week there will be a meeting.
[01:24] <lifeless> reviewers: get your time preferences into me via the thread in lp-reviwers, I will be deciding based on the input I have tomorrow morning
[01:24] <lifeless> thats 8 hours away.
[01:24] <mpool> kiko: essentially i want voting by people in the lp team; which malone doesn't do yet
[01:24] <lifeless> that is all.
[01:24] <SteveA>  * Bug 3996: Code of conduct security issue (Kiko)
[01:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3996: code of conduct signing procedure forces signer to open themselves up to possible attack In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3996
[01:25] <kiko> mpool, we can comment in the status whiteboard
[01:25] <kiko> okay
[01:25] <kiko> so this issue has been reported and I think we should look into proposing a solution to the issue
[01:25] <kiko> has anyone done some thinking about the problem?
[01:25] <mpt> yep
[01:25] <kiko> jamesh perhaps?
[01:26] <mpt> I propose making the CoC a text field, let people add whitespace, and do some sort of diff that ignores whitespace to check that it's not substantially modified once it's signed
[01:26] <jamesh> kiko: the solution I'd use is check if what_the_user_signed.split() == codeofconduct.split()
[01:26] <jamesh> kiko: which also solves the issue of people cut/pasting the CoC and missing a newline
[01:26] <spiv> jamesh: I seem to recall reviewing and approving a change like that already?
[01:27] <jamesh> spiv: yeah.  I used this approach in the sign-only gpg key validation code
[01:27] <kiko> jamesh, would you care to fix that bug for us?
[01:27] <SteveA> then i think the issue is getting elmo to approve of this, and maybe getting the CommunityCouncil to approve of it (if necessary)
[01:27] <kiko> jamesh, and you mean split() and not strip()?
[01:28] <daf> yes
[01:28] <SteveA> we have a technical solution, we need to have it ratified by the social / political folks
[01:28] <jamesh> kiko: yes.  Make sure that the signed version contains all the words in the original, and in the right order
[01:28] <SteveA> so, someone should talk with elmo about this.  i volunteer,
[01:28] <kiko> jamesh, I see, you're right indeed.
[01:28] <kiko> thanks SteveA 
[01:28] <SteveA>  * Finalize policy for catching of exceptions (Kiko, Steve)
[01:28] <SteveA>  * Finalize policy for method naming (Niemeyer, Steve)
[01:28] <kiko> will jamesh write the patch to fix this?
[01:28] <SteveA> can we do this by email?
[01:28] <jamesh> sure.
[01:28] <kiko> thanks
[01:28] <SteveA> jamesh: wait until i've talked with elmo please.
[01:28] <kiko> SteveA, I'd rather we just decided here and now and I emailed in a decision.
[01:29] <jamesh> SteveA: yep.
[01:29] <kiko> I mean
[01:29] <kiko> it's been in email for 2 weeks
[01:29] <SteveA> i thought the decidion for method naming was made last week.
[01:29] <SteveA> it is there in the meeting summary.
[01:29] <kiko> is it finalized then? are reviewers applying it in their comments?
[01:29] <SteveA> it needs adding to the HackingFaq
[01:30] <kiko> okay
[01:30] <SteveA> it applies to newly submitted reviews
[01:30] <SteveA> same for exception handling
[01:30] <kiko> right
[01:30] <niemeyer> For some strange reason I don't have the mail that decides on it.
[01:30] <kiko> SteveA, can you finalize the wording of the rule, or agree to one of the proposals?
[01:30] <daf> the summary of the last meeting didn't mention exception handling
[01:30] <kiko> SteveA, I'm okay if you do it through email as long as you do it :)
[01:30] <bradb> SteveA: Any reason for us not to have one, simple wiki page which spells out our coding standards (including, e.g. links to PEP 8 as well, of course.)
[01:30] <SteveA> kiko: okay.  action for me.
[01:30] <bradb> ?
[01:31] <SteveA>  * Bzr work status -- PQM, merge bug, other bugs (RobertCollins) 
[01:31] <kiko> bradb, we should do that, it's a good point.
[01:31] <SteveA> lifeless: 
[01:31] <spiv> bradb: There's a PythonStyleGuide page somewhere, but I expect it's somewhat out of date now.
[01:31] <SteveA> spiv: can you take on updating this?
[01:31] <niemeyer> bradb: It'd be nice to have it specified locally, even if pointing to PEP8
[01:31] <spiv> Sure.
[01:32] <SteveA> thanks spiv 
[01:32] <bradb> thanks spiv 
[01:32] <kiko> spiv, it's on you then? rock!
[01:32] <SteveA> stub: are you around?
[01:32] <lifeless> I don't see it in the hacking faq
[01:32] <lifeless> sorry, irssi was confused
[01:32] <SteveA>  * Bzr work status -- PQM, merge bug, other bugs (RobertCollins) 
[01:33] <lifeless> ok
[01:33] <lifeless> can I note first that the hackingfaq page talks coding standards now ;)
[01:34] <SteveA> yes, but for the third time...
[01:34] <SteveA>  * Bzr work status -- PQM, merge bug, other bugs (RobertCollins) 
[01:34] <lifeless> PQM is now finally ready to move to balleny I think. All the moving bits seem to be there, I hope to do some acceptance testing tomorrow
[01:34] <kiko> yeah, we should summarize it into a document, that page is a mess
[01:34] <bradb> And a lot more, yep. :)
[01:34] <lifeless> and then I'll coordinate with elmo to move over asap
[01:34] <lifeless> merge bug - resolved, bzr in pqm updated to prevent it happening again, and both private and public branches fixed.
[01:35] <lifeless> other bugs - showstoppers - carlos' unicode bug with fetch.
[01:35] <lifeless> mpool is going to do that asap I think  - mpool can you confirm ?
[01:35] <kiko> are there any other bugs that people are facing, not including performance?
[01:35] <carlos> so I only need the instructions to debug it
[01:35] <SteveA> stub: please say something if you get back on line
[01:35] <mpool> this is the one mentioned on irc a couple of hours ago?
[01:36] <lifeless> mpool: yes
[01:36] <niemeyer> lifeless: Has the sftp URL changed scheme changed in the latest development version?
[01:36] <niemeyer> s/URL changed/URL/
[01:36] <daf> niemeyer: yes
[01:36] <lifeless> niemeyer: it has, I'm agitating for it to change back, cause I think its wrong now ;)
[01:36] <lifeless> PQM is not running the changed code due to bugs with it
[01:36] <daf> lifeless++
[01:36] <stub> SteveA: pong
[01:36] <SteveA> can i ask those with bzr problems to stay after the meeting to raise their issues on the irc channel?
[01:36] <niemeyer> lifeless: Ok.. it's broken as well in a few different ways, but if we're changing back it's not an issue.
[01:36] <SteveA> we must move on quickly, as we have several things left to cover.
[01:37] <lifeless> I'm done on that
[01:37] <SteveA>  * Production / staging (stub) 
[01:37] <SteveA>  * Production gina run (stub)
[01:37] <stub> Ooh... sorry late. 
[01:37] <SteveA> stub: actually... can you prepare these
[01:37] <SteveA> and we'll get to them at the end?
[01:37] <stub> Sure
[01:37] <SteveA>  * Keep, Bag, Change
[01:37] <SteveA> anything for this section?
[01:37] <SteveA> 5
[01:37] <SteveA> 4
[01:37] <SteveA> 3
[01:37] <SteveA> 2
[01:38] <ddaa> yes
[01:38] <SteveA> 1
[01:38] <SteveA> ddaa: ?
[01:38] <lifeless> what is this seciton ?
[01:38] <ddaa> Change: Code review lantency
[01:38] <ddaa> Change: sysadmin request latency
[01:38] <ddaa> That's all.
[01:38] <SteveA> lifeless: read last meeting summaries
[01:38] <lifeless> SteveA: ack
[01:38] <ddaa> Oh yes, keep: meeting summaries!
[01:38] <SteveA> thanks ddaa.  i'll take on doing something about these and getting back to you
[01:39] <SteveA>  * Three sentences
[01:39] <SteveA> please go!
[01:39] <lifeless> DONE: unfucked rocketfuel, bzr development, test suite improvement design, jblack TDD indoctrination, automated testing spec review
[01:39] <lifeless> TODO: bzr dev, automated testing interface strawman, test suite improvements, interface-testing mockup, bzr-rollout items like baz2bzr custom build
[01:39] <lifeless> BLOCKED: Stevea zope3 update (week2)
[01:39] <lifeless> FIRST POST
[01:39] <ddaa> DONE: importd2bzr coding
[01:39] <ddaa> TODO: deploy updatebranches and importd2bzr, optional-branch-title, BazaarTaskList
[01:39] <ddaa> BLOCKED: supermirror-pull+id-http (spiv+jblack), bzsyncd@macquarie (sysadmins), baz2bzr-cscvs (lifeless)
[01:39] <jblack> DONE: supermirror
[01:39] <matsubara> DONE: finally fixed the autogen forms bug and fixed bug related to logintoken validation code.
[01:39] <matsubara> TODO: merge some validation code for the productseries  source forms, fix more bugs
[01:39] <matsubara> BLOCKED: nope
[01:39] <spiv> DONE: Supermirror SFTP hacking, reviewing, misc bugs
[01:39] <spiv> TODO: Supermirror SFTP, update our SQLObject patches for latest upstream and resubmit them, PythonStyleGuide update.
[01:39] <jordi> DONE: new import policy, mailman discussion, mail handling
[01:39] <gneuman> DONE UPLODED A FEW FIXES
[01:39] <jamesh> DONE: ErrorReportManagement / fix bugzilla-import branch problems brought up in review (was blocked by merge error) / try to track down BjornT's pyme crash (not successful yet)
[01:39] <jamesh> TODO: pyme crash / bugzilla-import run (dependent on gina run) / code reviews
[01:39] <jamesh> BLOCKED: no
[01:39] <spiv> BLOCKED: no (but still no idea when the laptop insurance will arrive...).
[01:39] <mpool> DONE: bzr development
[01:39] <Kinnison> DONE: More ftpmaster tools, publishing testing, helped cprov and niemeyer organise for uploader testing on mawson, got mawson's librarian tidied up thanks to stub's librarian gc.
[01:39] <jblack> TODO: supermirror, back to docs
[01:39] <gneuman> BLOKED NONE
[01:39] <Kinnison> TODO: Finish ftpmaster tools, write tests for buildd branch, buildd setup with infinity.
[01:39] <BjornT> DONE: finished and submitted DefaultAffectsTarget for review. spec writing. bug fixing. started on making the email ui produce better error messages.
[01:39] <Kinnison> BLOCKED: Nothing currently, although gina on staging needs to finish before I can do more publisher tests.
[01:39] <jblack> BLOCKED: NONE
[01:39] <mpool> TODO: better storage (*urgent*)
[01:39] <BjornT> TODO: make the email ui produce better error messages, including some general refactoring, and fixing bugs related to the email ui.
[01:39] <BjornT> BLOCKED: no
[01:39] <mpt> DONE: Catching up on e-mail and triage from holiday; bug fixes
[01:39] <mpool> BLOCKED: no
[01:39] <mpt> TODO: New Launchpad page layout, investigate popup killing
[01:39] <mpt> BLOCKED: no
[01:39] <carlos> DONE: TranslationUpload review end, Started with POMsgSetPage, some bug triage and user support
[01:39] <jordi> TODO: backlog of pending requests for new policy
[01:40] <salgado> DONE: Finished ShipItReports, code review, small fixes, started some optimizations that will hopefully drastically reduce the number of timeouts we see today
[01:40] <gneuman> TODO: last fixes upload
[01:40] <jordi> BLOCKED: launchpad-experts
[01:40] <carlos> TODO: POMsgSetPage, holidays
[01:40] <SteveA> DONE: management * 10, code reviews
[01:40] <SteveA> TODO: rest of performance reviews, moin website work, code reviews, zope3 upgrade
[01:40] <SteveA> BLOCKED: no, except having enough hours in the week
[01:40] <salgado> TODO: finishe the optimizations, code review, add advanced search to FOAF bug pages
[01:40] <salgado> BLOCKED: No
[01:40] <carlos> BLOCKED: bzr does not let me merge my TranslationUploads branch
[01:40] <cprov> DONE: soyuz ui branches for review and uploader-test
[01:40] <cprov> TODO: uploader-test on DF
[01:40] <cprov> BLOCKED: None
[01:40] <kiko> DONE: staff reviews, help organize breezy auto-test run, various bits of assistance everywhere
[01:40] <kiko> TODO: finish staff reviews, run Gina, get publisher run, look at helping
[01:40] <kiko> out with error reporting
[01:40] <kiko> BLOCKED: Gina run (stub), BZR merge fix (lifeless, reported to be fixed), SteveA (various emails in his inbox)
[01:40] <bradb> DONE: Caught up on bug triage finally, loads of bugmail, some user support. Smaller bugfixes, InitialBugContacts.
[01:41] <niemeyer> DONE: Cronjobed bzrsync, travel to async, work on SoyuzProduction, fixes on Smart, ...
[01:41] <niemeyer> TODO: Work on Soyuz production
[01:41] <niemeyer> BLOCKED: Nope
[01:41] <bradb> TODO: Finish IBC, work on bugfixing + response time
[01:41] <bradb> BLOCKED: No.
[01:41] <salgado> SteveA, in fact, I'm also blocked by bzr, as I just realized the merge failed with the same problem as carlos in another branch of mine
[01:41] <SteveA> here are the blocked issues I have:
[01:41] <SteveA> ddaa BLOCKED: supermirror-pull+id-http (spiv+jblack), bzsyncd@macquarie (sysadmins), baz2bzr-cscvs (lifeless)
[01:41] <SteveA> spiv BLOCKED: no (but still no idea when the laptop insurance will arrive...).
[01:41] <SteveA> jordi BLOCKED: launchpad-experts
[01:41] <SteveA> carlos BLOCKED: bzr does not let me merge my TranslationUploads branch
[01:41] <SteveA> kiko BLOCKED: Gina run (stub), BZR merge fix (lifeless, reported to be fixed), SteveA (various emails in his inbox)
[01:41] <SteveA> 
[01:41] <lifeless> SteveA: you missed me
[01:41] <SteveA> ddaa: does the planning this morning address the first part?
[01:41] <stub> DONE: PostgreSQL session support
[01:41] <stub> TODO: Finish of PostgreSQL session support for persistent sessions
[01:41] <stub> BLOCKED: Nothing
[01:41] <Kinnison> and me
[01:42] <SteveA> lifeless BLOCKED: Stevea zope3 update (week2)
[01:42] <ddaa> SteveA: no, the planning this morning only talked about push, I dunno where pull stands.
[01:42] <SteveA> Kinnison: you said "nothing currently"
[01:42] <jordi> SteveA: my BLOCKED depends on kiko's BLOCKED, which seems to look good
[01:42] <SteveA> ddaa: okay, we need to get you and spiv and jblack talking about that
[01:42] <lifeless> SteveA: thats what the monday meeting is about
[01:42] <SteveA> i'll talk with others about blocked issues after the meeting.
[01:42] <salgado> SteveA, mine was wrong. the correct is: BLOCKED: bzr won't let me merge into two different branches. same problem as carlos: UnicodeDecodeError
[01:42] <SteveA> ok
[01:43] <SteveA> stub: production, staging and gina run
[01:43] <stub> Next production rollout will be from head as of now. Rollout will either be Friday or Tuesday depending on my schedule (I may need to take my leave a week early).
[01:43] <stub> Not much to report on the Gina front - I had to do a full Gina run again after I nuked some files I shouldn't have from the librarian which may have upset her (not sure, but better safe than sorry). 4TB of disk has arrived for the new Librarian box, currently being burned in and Librarian Garbage Collection has been successfully tested so there are no blockages apart from approval of Gina's output.
[01:43] <Kinnison> SteveA: well, I'm not blocked for the next two or three days I guess, I can probably last until next week
[01:43] <stub> Bitch now or tomorrow if there is urgent stuff that needs to land for the production rollout.
[01:43] <jblack> eat more fiber.
[01:43] <mpool> salgado: you mean there are two particular branches you can't merge into?
[01:43] <ddaa> SteveA: also, I still have couple of unblocked pipelines
[01:43] <Kinnison> stub: LibrarianGC seems to block the publisher
[01:43] <SteveA> Kinnison: okay, you're BLOCKED: gina running on staging.
[01:44] <Kinnison> stub: so I'd suggest you get it running on production ASAP
[01:44] <Kinnison> stub: otherwise we may hit issues
[01:44] <kiko> stub, so has gina run on staging? when did that happen?
[01:44] <salgado> mpool, yes, I tried to merging from rocketfuel into them and it failed. gneuman had the same issue
[01:44] <salgado> s/to merging/to merge/
[01:44] <SteveA> anything totally CRITICAL to talk about?  we have 30s left.
[01:45] <stub> Kinnison: Last I saw, the publisher was the rude one with locking - LibrarianGC design should make her play well with others.
[01:45] <stub> kiko: Gina is still running on Staging
[01:45] <kiko> okay, thanks.
[01:45] <Kinnison> stub: fair enough
[01:45] <SteveA> okay, that's it. watch the list / irc header for time of next meeting
[01:45] <Kinnison> stub: It probably only causes issues with an initial publish
[01:45] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[01:45] <ddaa> countdown?
[01:45] <salgado> stub, have you seen my email on the optimizations front?
[01:45] <jblack> 54321
[01:46] <carlos> SteveA, thanks
[01:46] <carlos> mpool, so, Do you have time to check my problem?
[01:46] <spiv> SteveA: I'm about to sleep
[01:46] <jblack> ddaa: You wanted to talk?
[01:46] <stub> salgado: Nope - nothing new from you in my inbox
[01:46] <salgado> ouch
[01:46] <stub> salgado: oh - the one from earlier today. I though I replied?
[01:46] <ddaa> jblack: i'd like to know where supermirror-pull is standing ATM
[01:47] <stub> salgado: Yes - feel free to make the query do the outer join in both halves of the UNION. It looked fine.
[01:47] <mp1> lifeless: I have a test failing locally but running fine on PQM, interested?
[01:47] <jblack> The core stuff can be finished by the time you wake up tomorrow. Much of the fluff can be done by monday. 
[01:47] <lifeless> mp1: yes
[01:47] <ddaa> jblack: rollout ETA?
[01:48] <ddaa> jblack: just to know when I should nag you again next.
[01:48] <jblack> ddaa: for core stuff, 24 hours. for extras (like concurrant mirrroing), monday.
[01:48] <jblack> Thats if I behave awkwardly, but not unreasonably.
[01:48] <salgado> stub, that's good news... but to make all vocabs use that query and avoid duplication is going to be quite some work, as I can't use sqlobject's facilities because of that LEFT OUTER JOIN
[01:48] <ddaa> jblack: ATM I'm also blocked on the id-based http and the bzrsyncd account to actually use it.
[01:49] <stub> salgado: You can fake it by hiding the OUTER JOIN in a subselect
[01:49] <jblack> ddaa: When's the soonest you need?
[01:49] <ddaa> yesterday
[01:49] <ddaa> Seriously, it's not life-or-death matter
[01:49] <lifeless> jblack: ddaa would like it live as soon as reasonable
[01:50] <lifeless> ddaa: jblack wants to deliver whatever you need
[01:50] <stub> SELECT [rows]  FROM Person where id IN (SELET id FROM Person LEFT OUTER JOIN EMailAddress ON blah blah WHERE person.id = emailaddress.person and blah blah blah blah) -- pass that whole where clause into a SQLObject select()
[01:50] <stub> sucks, but works
[01:50] <stub> checkout Person.topPeople now
[01:50] <ddaa> jblack: that's cool then. I'd like you to send me an email when the stuff is live.
[01:50] <jordi> mpt: heh
[01:50] <lifeless> jblack: ddaa is telling you what other things block him, not what things *you* have to do
[01:51] <ddaa> lifeless+
[01:51] <lifeless> jblack: hes meaning to take the pressure off you I think
[01:51] <jblack> aahhh.
[01:51] <lifeless> jblack: but failing to say so
[01:51] <jblack> ddaa: Ok. When do I become inconvienant to you. :) 
[01:51] <ddaa> jblack: I'm telling you that there are other things blocking the same thing.
[01:51] <ddaa> jblack: when all the other blockers are gone :)
[01:51] <mpt> lifeless: nm, it's passing now and I don't know why
[01:51] <mpt> I haven't changed the code since it was failing
[01:51] <ddaa> And if I give the same answer to everybody, it's not going to be done ever :)
[01:52] <lifeless> jblack: I have a request for you
[01:52] <jblack> lifeless: shoot
[01:52] <lifeless> mpt needs some bzr doco for the launchpad workflow that he can refer to when noone is around
[01:52] <kiko> lifeless, are updated debs available with your fix?
[01:52] <lifeless> would you like to write that up ?
[01:52] <lifeless> kiko: the data fix is to rocketfuel
[01:52] <jblack> lifeless: I'd love to. 24hr turnaround ok?
[01:53] <mpt> that's fine, jblack, thanks
[01:53] <lifeless> jblack: timing is as soon as reasonable. I'd say monday would be fine even
[01:53] <lifeless> jblack: SteveA has a list of the specifics, if you could chat with SteveA ...
[01:53] <jblack> mpt: Can you email me with the things you're looking for?
[01:53] <mpt> ok
[01:53] <jblack> stevea: can you copy that to me? 
[01:53] <jblack> switching networks
[01:53] <SteveA> jblack: particularly, what we'd like to see is a document listing the parts of the old baz workflow (pull, switch, commit, undo, mirror etc) and how that step works with our new bzr / rsync setup
[01:54] <lifeless> kiko: so, just rsync rocketfuel/launchpad/devel locally again and merge and it should work
[01:54] <lifeless> kiko: the code fixes are in all current debs.
[01:54] <kiko> lifeless, ah. and the prebuilt tree will work again?
[01:54] <kiko> thanks.
[01:54] <ddaa> SteveA: anything you need me for in the next half hour? I'd liko to have lunch now.
[01:54] <lifeless> I'll just check the prebuilt tree, una momento
[01:55] <lifeless> kiko: thanks.
[01:55] <lifeless> kiko: the -built tree was not fixed, I'm running the fix on it
[01:55] <lifeless> couple of minutes
[01:55] <kiko> thanks, fine.
[01:56] <lifeless> done
[01:58] <salgado> stub, how does https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileSnmfy6.html perform on production?
[02:04] <jblack> stevea: Great. I've got it covered
[02:04] <SteveA> thanks jblack 
[02:07] <carlos> salgado, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/fileUw3YyE.html
[02:07] <carlos> salgado, that's the way to fix the problem with bzr
[02:08] <stub> salgado: slow
[02:08] <stub> salgado: 7 seconds cold
[02:09] <stub> salgado: 5 seconds warm
[02:09] <carlos> salgado, mpool gave me the fix ;-)
[02:09] <carlos> see you later
[02:09] <salgado> stub, that's sad. this one would have been easy to write using only sqlobject's facilities
[02:13] <salgado> stub, do you think it's possible to write it using a select that gets all the results, and then INTERSECTING that select with more restrictive selects? (and making it fast too, of course)
[02:14] <stub> Getting all the results is the slow bit
[02:15] <salgado> and we can't really optimize that, I guess
[02:16] <stub> nope
[02:18] <salgado> mpool, thanks for the bzr fix, dude
[02:19] <salgado> mpool, should I expect it to be on jbailey's snapshot repo tomorrow?
[02:19] <jbailey> mpool, salgado: If there's something you need urgently, I can respin at anytime.
[02:21] <mpool> yes, should be 
[02:21] <mpool> ok
[02:21] <mpool> jbailey: but salgado's stuff is coming from robertc-lp-integration, isn't it?
[02:22] <jbailey> mpool: No idea.  I'm just the child labour in the middle that produce the goods. ;)
[02:22] <stub> salgado: Is it a lot of work dumping SQLObject in those vocabularies and just using SQL? Iirc it wouldn't be much work and the end result would be more readable anyway.
[02:22] <lifeless> SteveA: http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/interfaceverification.txt
[02:22] <lifeless> sivang_away: you will probably find that interesting too
[02:23] <salgado> stub, that's what I do now, and it's because of that that the code is not so easy to maintain
[02:24] <salgado> no rocket science, though. but it'd be less work if I could use only sqlobject
[02:25] <lifeless> salgado: you dont need to use integration debs
[02:25] <lifeless> you can use the stock bzr debs.
[02:26] <salgado> lifeless, really? I thought we all should be using the integration debs. (this is what we get from jbailey's repo, right?)
[02:27] <lifeless> salgado: really
[02:27] <lifeless> we had to use integration when we first started, but everything needed for your client machines is in .dev now
[02:29] <stub> salgado: it is complex because of the code reuse - might be worth dropping that and just having several similar classes and some duplicated code rather than the much more complex one that is reused. Will only know in hindsight though ;)
[02:29] <salgado> lifeless, and where can I get them fron?
[02:29] <salgado> stub, indeed, I've been considering this idea
[02:29] <lifeless> salgado: thats what jbaileys repo gives you
[02:29] <jordi> kiko: can we look at the community thing during my evening?
[02:30] <jordi> I'm at work right now
[02:30] <lifeless> salgado: he has bzr and bzr-integration debs
[02:31] <salgado> lifeless, oh, now I see. the first time I looked at that repo I didn't see the bzr-integration packages. anyway, I'm not using them
[02:32] <kiko> jordi, sure.
[02:33] <thisfred> meeting's over right? ;) I have another question
[02:33] <thisfred> if you register a new product, you can indicate a project
[02:33] <thisfred> can that be any string? 
[02:34] <jordi> thisfred: a project needs to be created
[02:34] <salgado> thisfred, no, it has to be an existing project, AFAIK
[02:35] <thisfred> oh, ok
[02:35] <jordi> thisfred: assigining products to projects should be done only in cases like GNOME, where the gnome project produces many proucts like gnome-panel, gnome-applets...
[02:35] <jordi> thisfred: some people create a project for just one product, which is a bit wrong
[02:35] <thisfred> what are the criteria for creating one? I'd like to slowly move the extension products for our cms to launchpad, and so it would be nice to have a 'Silva' project
[02:36] <jordi> thisfred: that's a good example of a product :)
[02:36] <jordi> err
[02:36] <jordi> a project
[02:36] <thisfred> but i see where you'd want to limit the number of projects
[02:36] <ddaa> thisfred: the silva project exists already
[02:36] <thisfred> wow, ok cool ;)
[02:37] <ddaa> And indeed, that's a good example of a project
[02:38] <thisfred> I'm really excited, a third party developer just announced he wants to move his e-learning extension to launchpad
[02:38] <jordi> thisfred: great!
[02:38] <ddaa> I think we should rename projects to something else.
[02:38] <ddaa> It's just confusing.
[02:38] <sivang> lifeless: I'm looking, thanks for the link 
[02:38] <ddaa> Maybe, that should be a "Suite", or a "Collection".
[02:39] <ddaa> I think Suite might better capture the spirit of it.
[02:39] <thisfred> ddaa: the name isn't that clear, but the accompanying text explains it adequately I think
[02:39] <thisfred> at least I goit it ;)
[02:40] <ddaa> thisfred: rules of UI design: 1. users don't read docs 2. user don't read informative text 3. user don't read anything.
[02:40] <jordi> ddaa: yes.
[02:40] <thisfred> heh
[02:40] <jordi> ddaa: when I have time, I want to prune the list of projects, because it's full of crap
[02:41] <ddaa> We just put informative text there because otherwise people would complain there's no informative text. So put text there, and people ignore it :)
[02:41] <ddaa> mpt: here?
[02:43] <jordi> ddaa: it's great :)
[02:43] <ddaa> jordi: I'll send an email to the mailing list.
[02:43] <mpt> ddaa, yo
[02:44] <ddaa> ha, maybe not :)
[02:44] <ddaa> mpt: do you agree that the thing that Launchpad calls "Projects" and thing that people out there call "a project" are different things?
[02:44] <mpt> I think the former is a subset of the latter
[02:45] <ddaa> In my experience, there's a significant amount of confusion going around. Typically, people come thinking "I want to register my pet project" and go creating a launchpad project.
[02:45] <mpt> e.g. jdub gave a talk at Guadec featuring the slide "Gnome: product or project?"
[02:46] <mpt> Yes, and it doesn't help that they're only two letters different.
[02:46] <ddaa> Right, so I'm suggesting that the UI should drop this confusing "project" thing and have only "suites" and "products".
[02:46] <ddaa> What do you thing?
[02:46] <ddaa> * What do you think?
[02:46] <mpt> suites?
[02:46] <mpt> Is Gnome a suite?
[02:46] <stub> Products and product groups
[02:47] <ddaa> mpt: I think it's a suite...
[02:47] <mpt> "The Mozilla suite" and "The Mozilla Project" are very specific and very different things
[02:47] <ddaa> stub: that might be even better
[02:47] <mpt> product groups seems better
[02:47] <ddaa> mpt: agreed
[02:47] <mpt> DOIT
[02:47] <ddaa> mpt: so what about stub's suggestion?
[02:47] <stub> Change it in the UI and keep projects internal
[02:48] <ddaa> mpt: my pipe is really really very full, look at BazaarTaskList for things currently on my queue.
[02:48] <stub> maybe refactor the code when we are 100% sure
[02:48] <mpt> Report a bug, ddaa, and I'll do it later
[02:48] <ddaa> mpt: That's what I wanted to hear :)
[02:51] <mpt> J->j
[02:51] <ddaa> mpt: check products/$product/+admin
[02:52] <mpt> that could be a problem, as it comes directly from the schema afaik
[02:53] <ddaa> BTW, I think that much of the +admin stuff should be accessible to the project owner.
[02:53] <ddaa> People should be allowed to change their product/project/branch/series names.
[02:53] <ddaa> and the affiliation of their products to a project
[02:54] <SteveA> jamesh: do the stripping-CoC-comparison code please.  also, we should add a line to the end of the CoC that goes something like:
[02:55] <SteveA>   Optional line of text to make the document unique: [add some letters and numbers here] 
[02:55] <ddaa> mpt: bug 5276
[02:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5276: "Project" is a confusing term In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Matthew Paul Thomas, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/5276
[02:56] <matsubara> ddaa: now they can, with my bug fix for 1132.
[02:56] <ddaa> bug 1132
[02:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #1132: no obvious way to link an extant product to a new project In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: Fixed https://launchpad.net/bugs/1132
[02:56] <ddaa> matsubara: that's cool. That fixes part of the issue.
[02:57] <ddaa> mpt: the fix for that bug problably features a ValidProjectName selector.
[02:57] <ddaa> Oh...
[02:57] <ddaa> BTW
[02:57] <ddaa> THAT BREAKS IMPORTD
[02:57] <kiko> what does?
[02:58] <ddaa> one more reason to kill buildbot :(
[02:58] <ddaa> kiko: changing the project of a product which has a rcs import
[02:58] <ddaa> because the job spreading is done _wrong_
[02:58] <kiko> ddaa, what do you propose we do?
[02:59] <ddaa> Three options...
[02:59] <SteveA> i think we've already discussed this to death, ddaa
[02:59] <SteveA> we have a plan
[02:59] <ddaa> SteveA: tell me
[03:00] <SteveA> if the plan needs revising, let's get the same people together who discussed this before
[03:00] <ddaa> What's the plan?
[03:00] <SteveA> and not just discuss it informally on irc
[03:00] <ddaa> In short, the plan is "fix importd", right?
[03:00] <SteveA> the plan is that we don't know enough yet to know whether buildbot is a real problem, and that we review this question later.
[03:01] <SteveA> and we can discuss it again on monday
[03:01] <ddaa> bah, okay, if everybody is happy with rcs import failures piling up...
[03:01] <SteveA> in the meeting that is scheduled for this thing
[03:01] <ddaa> thinking of which... that can be fixed while keeping buildbot.
[03:01] <ddaa> orthogonal issue
[03:02] <ddaa> one way or another there's a big quality problem there
[03:04] <sivang> lifeless: "ompletes inside the heat death of the universe" ?
[03:05] <ddaa> sivang: last time I checked the full launchpad test suite took about 45mins to run on my laptop
[03:08] <mpt> stub, https://staging.ubuntu.com/ gives me a timeout error
[03:08] <mpt> salgado, it's a foaf problem
[03:08] <mpt> you know about it?
[03:08] <stub> mpt: That has been fixed, but staging hasn't got the change yet due to the gina run
[03:09] <mpt> ok
[03:13] <sivang> ddaa: probably good to people who runs thos test to have Dual optron amd machines with fast SATA drives :)
[03:13] <sivang> and a nice amount of 2GB for a testing server wouldn't hurt, as well
[03:13] <sivang> RAM, that is
[03:16] <sivang> ddaa: anyway, so "heat death of the universe" relates to the fact it takes 45 minutes to run them?
[03:17] <ddaa> that's was a slight overstatement to express the feeling the developers have with running this test suite
[03:19] <sivang> ddaa: well , I have a PHP test suite here that takes about 16 hours when the weather is good :)
[03:19] <ddaa> Not good enough for us since the full test suit is run by pqm for every merge request.
[03:19] <sivang> ah, right
[03:20] <sivang> ddaa: anyway , thanks for the clarification. 
[03:30] <kiko> mpt, bradb: would it make sense to have FIXED and INPRODUCTION?
[03:30] <kiko> or FIXED and DEPLOYED?
[03:30] <kiko> so we'd have
[03:31] <kiko> UNCONFIRMED, CONFIRMED, BEINGFIXED, FIXED, DEPLOYED
[03:31] <mpt> kiko, dude, no need to shout
[03:31] <mpt> ;-)
[03:32] <kiko> aren't statuses uppercase? :)
[03:32] <mpt> only in the 20th century
[03:32] <mpt> There's one bug report about having "Unconfirmed", "Confirmed", and "Being fixed"
[03:32] <mpt> and another bug report about renaming "PendingUpload" to "Pending Release"
[03:33] <carlos> daf, hi, are you there?
[03:33] <kiko> I'd rather have Fixed and Deployed or something like that
[03:33] <kiko> having Fixed not be the final state
[03:33] <kiko> because there's a strong developer mindset of setting the bug as Fixed when it is in revision control
[03:33] <mpt> fair enough
[03:34] <kiko> Deployed might not work for distro people 
[03:34] <kiko> I can initiate that discussion
[03:35] <kiko> yeah
[03:37] <daf> carlos: yo
[03:37] <mpt> so, Unconfirmed, Confirmed, Being Fixed, Fixed, Something
[03:38] <kiko> yes.
[03:44] <kiko-fud> mpt, nicest suggestion I've seen is Fixed and Released
[03:44] <kiko-fud> but ponder over it as lunch occurs ;)
[03:55] <bradb> kiko-fud: I think I might prefer optional FIXED metadata, specifying which branch the fix is available in, and/or which release the fix is available in
[03:56] <carlos> salgado, is there anyway to merge to teams?
[03:56] <carlos> s/to teams/two teams/
[03:57] <bradb> And, in fact, /maybe/ at least one of those pieces of metadata would need to be required to mark a bug fixed.
[03:59] <salgado> carlos, no
[03:59] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/people/penerjemah and https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-l10n-id smell like the same team
[04:01] <carlos> jordi, WTF? https://launchpad.net/people/andalu  does that language exists?
[04:23] <mpt> That's not a language, it's a restaurant
[04:27] <jordi> carlos: I have a mail from this dude to reply to
[04:27] <jordi> carlos: We need to seriously think about how to handle this
[04:37] <kiko-fud> mpt, LOL
[04:39] <jordi> damn
[04:39] <kiko> stub, why are there only 42 gigs free on staging?
[04:39] <kiko> jordi, what's up?
[04:39] <kiko> stub, I thought the librarian GC would free up more
[04:40] <stub> kiko: The entire librarian contents was manually removed before the last Gina run
[04:41] <mpt> jordi, is the message from Carlo Miron about Django still in your queue?
[04:41] <kiko> stub, okay so far, but I still wonder where all the space there is going then
[04:41] <stub> kiko: I'll run the garbage collector again - Gina might be uploading duplicates.
[04:41] <jordi> mpt: yes
[04:42] <jordi> I'm working on all of them now
[04:42] <mpt> good good
[04:42] <jordi> mpt: it's tedious, I need to find if who requests is the author first
[04:42] <jordi> if you know they are, for django, I can do it straight away :)
[04:42] <kiko> stub, how big was our librarian storage in asuka before we nuked it?
[04:42] <salgado> and now it's time for lunch
[04:42] <stub> launchpad@asuka:/srv/launchpad.ubuntu.com/staging/librarian$ du -ks .
[04:42] <stub> 74786600  
[04:42] <kiko> hmmm ok
[04:42] <stub> I think there was around 4% disk free
[04:43] <kiko> it was zero before gina ran?
[04:43] <stub> (that is the current librarian usage - not historical)
[04:43] <kiko> wow
[04:43] <kiko> there's around 8% now
[04:45] <Kinnison> I can fee up some room on staging
[04:45] <Kinnison> there's an old published archive we can dump
[04:45] <Kinnison> shall I rm it?
[04:46] <stub> If it isn't needed, please do. We don't want the gina run to die at 99% ;)
[04:46] <Kinnison> rm underway
[04:49] <Kinnison> How's the disk looking on asuka now?
[04:49] <kiko> stub, why is gina running again, FTR?
[04:50] <kiko> oh
[04:50] <kiko> this is yesterday's run
[04:50] <kiko> sorry
[04:50] <Kinnison> fair enough
[04:50] <kiko> Kinnison, it is /very/ close to finishing
[04:50] <kiko> 15:50:21 DEBUG   BinaryPackage xdialog-2.0.6-3 published.
[04:50] <kiko> I'd estimate another 30m or less
[04:51] <Kinnison> coolio
[04:52] <Kinnison> kiko: the rm is in universe/d
[04:52] <Kinnison> kiko: so we're not gonna hit issues with gina and disk at least :-)
[04:53] <kiko> how big is the archive you published?
[04:53] <Kinnison> which, where?
[04:53] <Kinnison> If it was a full one, it'd be ca. 70-100g
[04:53] <kiko> the one you're nuking
[04:53] <kiko> yea
[04:58] <Kinnison> kiko: ca. 66G left to free from this archive
[05:16] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: Fix https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/1855 (Change productseries add and edit pages to autogenerated forms). r=salgado (r2875: Diogo Matsubara, Guilherme Salgado)
[05:16] <jordi> I gotta learn Andalusian
[05:17] <jordi> I have a request to get rid of the users "reimar-heider" and "reimar-heider-merged"
[05:17] <kiko> salgado, don't forget jane's emails
[05:17] <kiko> jordi, "get rid"?!
[05:18] <salgado> kiko, I won't. just want to get that branch into pqm so I can tell her it'll be merged soon
[05:19] <jordi> I have a request from him
[05:20] <jordi> he says they were merged, but they still appeared here and there
[05:20] <jordi> maybe that's a bug fixed already though
[05:21] <kiko> salgado, okay. talk to stub about this into production?
[05:21] <stub> land it and email me the revision number
[05:21] <salgado> thanks stub!
[05:21] <carlos> jordi, I think the user accounts are not removed but marked as 'merged'
[05:22] <carlos> jordi, they should not appear
[05:22] <carlos> in any place as far as I know
[05:22] <jordi> carlos: yeah, but he complainedback then that they did appear
[05:22] <jordi> they don't seem to appear ow though
[05:22] <carlos> jordi, I suppose he's not talking about getting them typing the URL by hand...
[05:24] <jordi> no
[05:24] <jordi> he was getting them here
[05:24] <jordi> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/nautilus/+pots/nautilus/ku
[05:24] <jordi> apparently not anymore
[05:30] <mpt> kiko, Fixed and Released seem good to me too
[05:30] <mpt> Released can act like VERIFIED for QA teams that want to work that way
[05:32] <stub> Night!
[05:33] <ddaa> Hey, anybody can help me with zope?
[05:34] <ddaa> kiko?
[05:34] <BjornT> ddaa: i might be able to help you
[05:36] <kiko> stub, yes ddaa?
[05:36] <ddaa> I have a a problem with the branch-summary-listing.pt template
[05:37] <Kinnison> asuka cleaned up
[05:37] <Kinnison> there is> 100G free now
[05:37] <ddaa> When I use it, either included in another template, or directly, the view is set to a SimpleViewClass, although the branch.zcml seems to say it should be a BranchView
[05:39] <ddaa> Which fucks me because I need to use a BranchView method there. Other templates defined in the same browser:pages element have a correct view (e.g. branch-portlet-details.pt uses the BranchView)
[05:40] <ddaa> kiko: any idea (feels free to punt to BjornT if you are busy)
[05:41] <salgado> how do I run a test inside lib/canonical/librarian/ftests?
[05:41] <salgado> I mean, a single test that is there
[05:43] <kiko> ddaa, I'm on the phone, BjornT is a better choice
[05:43] <ddaa> BjornT: :)
[05:46] <BjornT> ddaa: ok. i'm not sure i follow completely. how do you use it exactly? <browser:page ... template="branch-summary-listing.pt" class="BranchView"> should work.
[05:46] <ddaa> branch.zcml line 57
[05:48] <BjornT> ddaa: ok, that should work. it doesn't?
[05:48] <ddaa> Nah, it does not...
[05:49] <ddaa> mh
[05:49] <ddaa> ??
[05:49] <ddaa> the template actually uses the view a bit later...
[05:49] <ddaa> WTF???
[05:50] <bradb> salgado: --test=test_name should work
[05:50] <BjornT> salgado: python test.py -f --test="test_you_want_to_run" canonical.librarian
[05:51] <BjornT> ddaa: where do you see that it's set to a SimpleViewClass?
[05:52] <ddaa> In some code I added here to handle empty product title and description
[05:52] <ddaa> so it's not something you can test easily, I'll try to isolate the issue
[05:53] <ddaa> essentially, I have a tal_attributes="href view/edit_link/url"
[05:53] <ddaa> where the edit_view method returns BranchContextMenu().edit()
[05:54] <ddaa> hu, the "edit_link" method does
[05:55] <ddaa> Then trying to display the page gives me a tales backtrace
[05:55] <ddaa> Where the context is is Branch, but the view is a SimpleClassView
[05:56] <BjornT> ok, don't be fooled by the class' repr(), it will say it's a SimpleViewClass, even though you have a custom class. zope3 does evil things and construct new classes automagically
[05:56] <ddaa> then why does it display in the backtrace :(
[05:57] <jordi> carlos: can you make "basblank" the owner of gnomesword?
[05:57] <salgado> BjornT, that doesn't seem to work
[05:57] <kiko> niemeyer, cprov: meeting in 4m
[05:57] <carlos> jordi, sure
[05:57] <BjornT> salgado: what test do you want to run?
[05:57] <cprov> kiko: ok
[05:57] <jordi> carlos: and make the product rosetta official
[05:58] <niemeyer> kiko: Really?
[05:58] <salgado> BjornT, librarian/ftests/test_gc.py
[05:58] <carlos> jordi, isn't it using GTP?
[05:58] <BjornT> salgado: ah, that's more than one test. you can do: python test.py -f canonical.librarian.ftests.test_gc
[05:58] <salgado> aparently the --test will look only for doctests and pagetests
[05:59] <jordi> is it?
[05:59] <jordi> the authors asked to move to rosetta
[05:59] <carlos> jordi, don't know, I'm asking you :-)
[05:59] <carlos> jordi, what about malone?
[05:59] <BjornT> salgado: --test will work for running a single test within test_gc.py
[05:59] <salgado> I see
[06:00] <jordi> carlos: nope, I guess.
[06:00] <kiko> niemeyer, derivation
[06:00] <salgado> BjornT, thanks, dude. :)
[06:00] <jordi> not... yet. :
[06:00] <jordi> :)
[06:00] <BjornT> ddaa: what does the traceback say? (apart from saying that the view is a SimpleViewClass)
[06:00] <jordi> carlos: not in the tp
[06:00] <carlos> jordi, I don't see any "basblank" account
[06:00] <carlos> jordi, name and surname?
[06:00] <ddaa> NotFoundError: (<bound method SimpleViewClass from /home/david/home/canonical/launchpad/lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/branch-summary-listing.pt.edit_link of <zope.app.pagetemplate.simpleviewclass.SimpleViewClass from /home/david/home/canonical/launchpad/lib/canonical/launchpad/templates/branch-summary-listing.pt object at 0x425b2dcc>>, 'url') 
[06:01] <jordi> bastian frank
[06:01] <jordi> sorry, basfrank
[06:02] <carlos> jordi, done
[06:02] <jordi> thanks
[06:02] <carlos> np
[06:04] <ddaa> BjornT: thanks for you help, but I have to leave now.
[06:04] <ddaa> sorry
[06:05] <BjornT> ok
[06:08] <carlos> How is possible that http://pqm.ubuntu.com/ has as the first entry a merge request that has been merged already ?
[06:10] <ddaa> BjornT: thanks, I'm unblocked now.
[06:12] <BjornT> carlos: it could be that the request was sent twice
[06:13] <carlos> BjornT, I don't think so. I have been following the queue
[06:13] <bradb> Is there a simple way in postgres to add a column before another column without, say, dropping and recreating the table?
[06:13] <carlos> and with that date, it was only once
[06:13] <carlos> bradb, before?
[06:13] <carlos> why before?
[06:14] <carlos> does the order matter?
[06:14] <jordi> carlos: thanks
[06:14] <bradb> carlos: As a matter of hubris, at the least, yes.
[06:14] <carlos> jordi, about what? 
[06:14] <bradb> It's the "id" column. It should be the first column, like all other tables in the db that I've seen.
[06:14] <jordi> ca	gnomesword
[06:15] <jordi> fucking lag
[06:15] <carlos> jordi, you said already thanks for that ;-)
[06:15] <jordi> i did?
[06:15] <carlos> jordi, but you are welcome anyway :-P
[06:15] <jordi> it's the lag
[06:15] <carlos> bradb, ok
[06:17] <jordi> ca	did you reply to the marathi dude?
[06:17] <carlos> jordi, for the language link with the country?
[06:17] <carlos> jordi, yes
[06:18] <jordi> Subject: Please appoint a team for Marathi translation of Ubuntu
[06:18] <jordi> To: rosetta@ubuntu.com
[06:18] <jordi> for this one
[06:19] <carlos> jordi, date?
[06:19] <jordi> nov 18
[06:20] <carlos> jordi, no, I didn't answer it
[06:20] <jordi> ok
[06:20] <jordi> will do
[06:21] <carlos> jordi, it's added already
[06:21] <jordi> i know
[06:21] <jordi> but I hadn't seen a reply
[06:22] <kiko> right on
[06:24] <jordi> lag lag lag
[06:55] <mpt> bradb, ping
[07:34] <carlos> see you
[07:40] <jordi> I'm off
[07:49] <mpt> lifeless / mpool / jblack, bzr merge error
[07:50] <mpt> How do I undo half a merge?
[07:50] <mpt> there's no undo
[07:50] <salgado> mpt, bzr revert
[07:50] <mpt> ah, but there is revert
[07:52] <bradb> mpt: pong
[07:53] <mpt> bradb, so about these statuses
[07:53] <bradb> mpt: You shouldn't have to undo half a merge, should you? Merges are transactional, AIUI.
[07:53] <mpt> the merge crashed, bradb
[07:53] <bradb> Yeah, does "bzr st" report that there are changed files?
[07:54] <mpt> I don't know, and it's too late to find out, but I'll remember that next time
[07:54] <bradb> Anyway, statuses
[07:54] <mpt> ooh, bzr st reveals a file I forgot to add
[07:55] <mpt> anyway, statuses
[07:55] <mpt> Unconfirmed, Confirmed, Being Fixed, Fixed, Released
[07:55] <mpt> what say you?
[07:56] <bradb> Could "Released" simply be "Fixed" with metadata saying in which release(s) the fix is available?
[07:57] <bradb> (At least the first four seem to be clearly useful, IMHO.)
[07:57] <mpt> bradb, off the top of your head, what's the release of the latest Launchpad on production?
[07:58] <bradb> Alternatively (or in addition), you could provide which branch the fix is available on, to be useful for projects that take forever to make actual releases.
[07:58] <bradb> mpt: I thought about that. LP is an exception to the rule.
[07:59] <bradb> I'd expect the other 99.5% of projects to actual have useful release numbers, even for projects that take a long time in between releases.
[08:01] <bradb> What do you think?
[08:01] <kiko> I agree.
[08:02] <mpt> I'm thinking about Mozilla
[08:02] <mpt> a bug is fixed in a nightly build, and maybe in 1.0.8, but not yet in the 2.0 branch...
[08:03] <mpt> Would this be related to infestations?
[08:03] <kiko> mpt, those are tasks on different product series.
[08:03] <bradb> Right.
[08:03] <kiko> that's analogous to distribution release tasks (backports)
[08:03] <kiko> they are not implemented yet
[08:03] <kiko> and they will probably not be delivered until Ubuntu is happy with basic Malone operations
[08:04] <mpt> so instead of "Released", we have "Fixed", which when selected enables an "in:" text field
[08:04] <bradb> Something like that, yeah.
[08:04] <kiko> hmmm
[08:04] <kiko> I don't know
[08:04] <kiko> I like the idea of a status transition triggered by the fix going into a released version.
[08:05] <kiko> I don't know if the text field is very useful -- it appears to be something you could infer from the task target
[08:06] <mpt> kiko, do you mean that it should be a <select> instead? or that it shouldn't be present at all?
[08:07] <bradb> kiko: I don't think you can infer it from the task target. I imagine, for example, seeing exactly which Ubuntu package version I need to upgrade firefox to to fix, for example, a security bug.
[08:08] <bradb> I'm not thinking of the "In:" field being freeform though. It should be something that makes sense to LP, I think. (In this way, you could, for example, easily see what bug reports were fixed in a specific release.)
[08:10] <bradb> I imagine that "Released" should have to carry this metadata anyway, which is why it seems to me that having a separate status for it may be redundant (can be inferred from Fixed + release metadata)
[08:13] <kiko> mpt, I wish it wouldn't need to be present at all -- and that a pure distro task, when "Released", would annotate itself with the latest version of the package in the distro. There is a sync issue though.. maybe you're pointing me the right direction
[08:16] <bradb> I imagine we can populate it automatically for people that use the mechanisms (i.e. Soyuz) to allow that to be so. For the others (for example, product authors that don't use the supermirror), I think they should have the option of setting that metadata by hand.
[08:16] <kiko> yeah, I see your point
[08:16] <kiko> I think you are onto something
[08:17] <kiko> but I am a bit in doubt of not having a separate status.
[08:17] <kiko> what does it mean to mark the bug Fixed?
[08:17] <mpt> it may make advanced searching more difficult
[08:17] <kiko> a) what does the end-user do when he commits a change to RCS?
[08:17] <kiko> b) what does he do when his change is merged into HEAD?
[08:18] <kiko> c) what does he do when his change is present in a released version?
[08:18] <kiko> all different moments in time
[08:18] <kiko> particularly with DRCS
[08:18] <kiko> for CVS and SVN-using projects, a) and b) are usually the same in the absence of branches
[08:18] <kiko> I have said enough for now :)
[08:20] <mpt> (a) isn't tracked in Launchpad, because we track bugs in distributions, not in people's private RCS archives
[08:20] <mpt> (b) is "mark the bug fixed in the product"
[08:20] <mpt> (c) is "mark the bug as Released in the product"
[08:20] <mpt> (waitasecond, "Releas"ing a "Bug"
[08:20] <mpt> ?)
[08:21] <bradb> heh
[08:21] <kiko> yeah, that sounded bad. even releasing a Task.
[08:22] <mpt> Fly! Fly away, my pretty task! You're free now!
[08:23] <bradb> a. if the commit is done in a place that LP knows about, LP can mark it "Fixed" => "in <revision> (download patch)". if not "Fixed" => some kind of UI that says "hey, nobody told us what branch this was fixed in and we don't know of any versions in which the fix has been released yet"
[08:24] <bradb> b. merged into head is another branch in which the fix exists (if LP understand what HEAD is, we can say it's fixed in HEAD too then.)
[08:25] <bradb> c. if the fix passes through a "publishing process" that LP knows about, we can set the fixed release automatically, otherwise we have to rely on the UI from a. to let the developer/release manager tell us about it manually
[08:27] <bradb> "Fixed" => "in 0 known branches [add one] "\n"in 0 known releases [add one] ", roughly
[08:27] <bradb> s/0/no/
[08:28] <bradb> (i know that wording is slightly ambiguous)
[08:28] <mpt> this is where it would be handy for HTML to have combo boxes
[08:29] <kiko> niemeyer, I've asked mpool
[08:29] <niemeyer> kiko: And?
[08:30] <kiko> he needs to wake up first :)
[08:30] <kiko> so let's wait till tomorrow
[08:30] <niemeyer> kiko: Ahh, ok :-)
[08:30] <niemeyer> Just kidding..
[08:31] <mpt> bradb: Can we at least get the renaming done soon-ish, then collapse Released into Fixed + magic once the magic is implemented?
[08:32] <bradb> mpt: BTW, we are going to keep NeedInfo, right?
[08:32] <mpt> oh yes
[08:32] <mpt> except that it should be Needs Info
[08:32] <bradb> Yeah
[08:33] <mpt> ok, I'll update the bug report
[08:33] <bradb> I think I can have this done in about half an hour, if we're ready to go ahead.
[08:33] <kiko> there are some neat things we could do with needs info + an optional user
[08:33] <bradb> kiko: interesting
[08:34] <mpt> bradb, no you can't, because e-mail interface tests will fail complaining about no. of arguments
[08:34] <mpt> :-P
[08:34] <bradb> heh
[08:34] <mpt> kiko: FogBugz assigns bugs to people instead of using needs info
[08:34] <kiko> for instance, put the bug to sleep until the person indicated answers
[08:34] <kiko> mpt, I don't know how clear that model is but it's at least different
[08:34] <mpt> e.g. if you need info from the reporter, assign it to the reporter
[08:35] <mpt> that requires moderately savvy reporters
[08:35] <bradb> mpt: What do they do to make that discoverable?
[08:35] <mpt> dunno
[08:37] <mpt> anyway, I'm going home before I fall asleep
[08:38] <kiko> Being Fixed and Fixed. hmm.
[08:39] <mpt> it means exactly what it should mean, they're just uncomfortably similar
[08:39] <bradb> Being Worked On?
[08:39] <kiko> Active?
[08:39] <kiko> an Active task
[08:39] <kiko> a Fixed task
[08:39] <kiko> a Released task
[08:39] <bradb> Active doesn't convey enough meaning, IMHO.
[08:39] <mpt> "Underway"?
[08:40] <mpt> yeah, Active is vague
[08:40] <bradb> Underway might be too terse.
[08:41] <mpt> In Progress?
[08:42] <bradb> That might be worth a shot
[08:42] <kiko> sounds good
[08:42] <mpt> DOIT
[08:42] <bradb> UnicodeDecodeError raining on my parade
[08:42] <mpt> Unconfirmed, Needs Info, Confirmed, In Progress, Fixed, Released
[08:43] <bradb> yup
[08:43] <mpt> in that order
[08:43] <mpt> (gui-wise)
[08:43] <bradb> which maps to
[08:43] <bradb> New, NeedInfo, Accepted, <nothing currently>, Fixed, <nothing currently>
[08:43] <mpt> New, NeedInfo, Accepted, n/a, PendingUpload, Fixed
[08:44] <mpt> hmmmm :-)
[08:44] <mpt> What do you do with extant PendingUpload bugs, bradb?
[08:45] <bradb> If I wanted to avoid data migration, I could rename that to In Progress.
[08:47] <mpt> but with your mapping, all our old bugfixes will seem to be unreleased
[08:47] <bradb> Hmph...I wonder if the current "Fixed" should be renamed to "Released". I think that'll be less wrong than leaving all the bugs currently marked "Fixed" as still just "Fixed" when there's also a "Release" state
[08:47] <mpt> indeed
[08:47] <kiko> that is the right approach
[08:47] <kiko> that's what I had suggested
[08:50] <bradb> sounds good
[08:58] <mpt> whoa, we forgot Rejected
[08:59] <mpt> heh
[08:59] <mpt> but that stays as it is
[08:59] <bradb> yeah
[09:01] <mpt> bradb: https://launchpad.net/products/malone/+bug/971
[09:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #971: Rename New/Accepted statuses as Unconfirmed/Confirmed, and other tweaks In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/971
[09:02] <bradb> yep, was just reading that, thanks
[09:02] <mpt> I just updated it
[09:04] <mpt> boa noite, todos
[09:05] <mpt> and thanks for fixing that bradb, it will make me sleep easier
[09:25] <lifeless> sivang: so the thing is
[09:25] <lifeless> 16 hours and TDD dont mix
[09:25] <lifeless> we cannot say, you should use TDD if the test suite is not /fast/
[09:25] <jordi> gah
[09:25] <jordi> missed mpt
[09:26] <jordi> how do I search my backlog in irssi?
[09:27] <mdke__> jordi, grep the logs i guess
[09:28] <jordi> I have none
[09:43] <kiko> time marches on
[10:16] <cprov> SteveA: ping
[10:16] <SteveA> hi
[10:16] <SteveA>  #c-m
[10:17] <SteveA> cprov: #c-m please
[10:32] <lifeless> SteveA: ping
[10:35] <SteveA> hello lifeless 
[10:36] <lifeless> did you see my strawman interface verification document ?
[10:38] <SteveA> i saw that it exists.  i have not read it yet.
[10:38] <lifeless> ok
[10:38] <lifeless> I think its a usefully-complete statement of what I'm talking about
[10:38] <lifeless> but not polished yet
[10:40] <SteveA> okay.  i'll read it, but not tonight.
[10:42] <lifeless> np
[10:42] <lifeless> I'll update that copy if I change anything
[10:49] <kiko> ahoy
[10:49] <kiko> SteveA, I am back!
[10:50] <SteveA> hi
[11:53] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  Fix Bug #2481 (System error if no password entered during registration) (r2876: Stuart Bishop)
[11:53] <kiko> finally! rock on!