[12:02] <jdub> mdke: yeah, that's awesome
[12:03] <jdub> Keybuk: awwww!
[12:03] <mjg59> Keybuk: Ping?
[12:03] <Nafallo> lol
[12:03] <Keybuk> mjg59: 'sup?
[12:04] <mjg59> Keybuk: The stuff about not moving /dev from initramfs to / - what does that actually mean?
[12:04] <mjg59> (re initramfs-tools changelog)
[12:04] <mjg59> usplash depends on the fifo in /dev being the same in the initramfs and the real rootfs
[12:04] <Keybuk> mjg59: read the udev changelog too
[12:04] <Keybuk> or Kamion's reply
[12:05] <Keybuk> basically that mount-move thing is in scripts/bottom/udev now which is supplied by udev itself
[12:05] <Mithrandir> elmo: /var/lib/mailman/spool, since it doesn't upgrade quefiles.
[12:05] <Mithrandir> queuefiles, even
[12:05] <Keybuk> likewise the actual population of it is in scripts/premount/udev
[12:05] <elmo> Mithrandir: dude this is going from one debian revision to another
[12:06] <elmo> Mithrandir: why on earth is the check trigger-ing?
[12:06] <mjg59> Keybuk: Ok, so it's just moved to udev? Cool.
[12:06] <Mithrandir> elmo: because it's paranoid.
[12:06] <Keybuk> mjg59: yeah, will make keeping it up to date muuuch easier
[12:06] <Mithrandir> elmo: I agree that might be a bit over the top, though.
[12:06] <elmo> Mithrandir: ITYM fcuking retarded
[12:06] <Keybuk> I imagine the evms and lvm and crap will also move to those packages
[12:06] <Keybuk> it also means load_modules() is just "cat conf/modules | xargs modprobe" type affair
[12:06] <elmo> Mithrandir: do you mind if I file a bug?
[12:06] <Keybuk> all the udevstart/etc. gubbins is done by udev now
[12:06] <Mithrandir> elmo: please do.
[12:07] <LaserJock> where can I find the Flight 1 cd?
[12:10] <Kamion> LaserJock: see the ubuntu-devel-announce mailing list archives on http://lists.ubuntu.com/
[12:10] <SEJeff> LaserJock, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/dapper/flight-1/
[12:11] <wasabi> http://isthis4real.com/orbit.xml   open in firefox 1.5
[12:11] <LaserJock> SEJeff: cdimage, I knew it was something like that. I just couldn't remember. Thanks
[12:11] <SEJeff> np
[01:05] <jdub> Keybuk: so the new kernels with the new meta packages are not yet recommended?
[01:05] <Tm_T> I would say "yu"
[01:05] <Keybuk> depends
[01:05] <Keybuk> let me put it this way
[01:05] <Keybuk> do you like being able to boot?
[01:05] <jdub> tend to prefer it
[01:05] <ogra> Keybuk, !
[01:06] <Keybuk> then not just yet
[01:06] <ogra> i cant boot :/
[01:06] <ogra> anything i can collect for you ? 
[01:06] <Nafallo> ogra: module-init-tools FTBFS'd :-P
[01:06] <Tm_T> muaaah, can't find any gui music player app that really plays anything :(
[01:06] <ogra> argl 
[01:06] <ogra> why did i miss this ...
[01:07] <SEJeff> Just out of curiousity, any rough ETA?
[01:07] <ogra> SEJeff, nope
[01:07] <ogra> Keybuk, udev also complains very loud about missing grepmap....
[01:07] <ogra> in initramfs that is
[01:09] <Keybuk> yeah, I just haven't muted that yet
[01:09] <Keybuk> you can ignore it unless your hard drive is on the input subsystem
[01:09] <Keybuk> or you're running on an s/390
[01:09] <jdub> but mum! my ps/2 disk won't wokr!
[01:10] <ogra> hehe
[01:10] <ogra> it just looked scary ...
[01:11] <jdub> allo xkahn 
[01:11] <xkahn> hey jdub!
[01:11] <jdub> fancy seeing you in a place like this ;)
[01:11] <Keybuk> ogra: can you boot your system? :p
[01:11] <xkahn> Heh.  Yeah.  A little unfamiliar.
[01:11] <\sh> ah...I just missed jdub in my "ubuntus motu school" announcement...
[01:11] <jdub> Keybuk: packages to be removed... hotplug... wheee :-)
[01:11] <Keybuk> jdub: \o/
[01:12] <xkahn> So I wrote a patch which adds pam_xauth support to pam_modules.
[01:12] <Keybuk> jdub: I like the fact you ignored the "NO, REALLY, DON'T (upgrade)" :p
[01:12] <xkahn> It doesn't enable it...  Just makes it possible.
[01:12] <jdub> Keybuk: i just looked at the dist-upgrade -u --purge output :)
[01:12] <xkahn> Although I believe it should be enabled by default, I pick my battles.
[01:12] <ogra> Keybuk, nope
[01:12] <xkahn> How do I go about getting it in the package?
[01:12] <ogra> it doesnt load ide-generic in initramfs
[01:13] <jdub> xkahn: you could file a bug on the package, and perhaps raise it on ubuntu-devel if you think it's something that should 'just work'
[01:14] <xkahn> Okay.  So file a bug with the patch enabling it...
[01:14] <xkahn> And then start a flame war ont eh mailing lists.  
[01:14] <xkahn> Got it.  ;)
[01:14] <jdub> :)
[01:15] <Keybuk> ogra: yeah, yeah, I know the bug now :p
[01:17] <Tm_T> interesting, looks like I don't have modules for my soundcard anymore
[01:18] <xkahn> Well, I'll have to do it later tonight.
[01:18] <xkahn> I've got a book reading to attend.
[01:20] <jdub> infinity: wigga-wigga-wha--? UP/SMP unified kernels?
[01:20] <jdub> xkahn: ciao, nice to see you around these parts
[01:22] <Seveas> jdub, fresh fridge material: http://www.tecspy.com/blogs/loveslugradio/2005/11/30#051131-episode3
[01:22] <Seveas> make sure you have nothing in your mouth before clicking :)
[01:22] <jdub> bah
[01:22] <jdub> can't click atm
[01:23] <Seveas> no gui nearby?
[01:23] <jdub> would have to go back to the table
[01:23] <Seveas> it's worth it :)
[01:23] <jdub> severe lack of synaptics driver for X ;-)
[01:23] <ogra> hmmm
[01:23] <Seveas> hehe
[01:23] <ogra> what do i do with apps that have compile options like --with-hotplug-scripts-dir=  nowadays ?
[01:24] <\sh> dum dum de dum dum *ubuntu*
[01:24] <Seveas> I actually spilled some coke when reading that
[01:24] <SEJeff> Seveas: Awesome
[01:24] <Keybuk> ogra: fix them
[01:24] <mdke> heh
[01:24] <mjg59> jdub: modprobe mousedev
[01:24] <Seveas> lol@keybuk :)
[01:24] <jdub> mjg59: nup
[01:24] <mjg59> (if you're on 2.6.15)
[01:24] <jdub> mjg59: on 2.6.14 with upgraded X *sans* all xserver-xorg packages
[01:24] <ogra> Keybuk, hmm, how ? if they expect scripts we dont support anymore ... are there replacements for all scripts ? 
[01:25] <mjg59> jdub: Oh, fun
[01:25] <infinity> jdub : Yes, on i386, the "non-smp" kernels are actually SMP kernels thsat dynamically turn all the SMP locks into no-ops on boot if a UP system is detected.
[01:25] <jdub> mjg59: because all the drivers moved around, and didn't have l-r-m yet (this lappy needs ati and atheros drivers)
[01:25] <jdub> infinity: elite!
[01:25] <infinity> jdub : I think the word you wanted was "scary".
[01:26] <jdub> that's the australian spelling
[01:27] <Seveas> lol
[01:27] <jdub> Seveas: that's fucking brilliant
[01:27] <Seveas> jdub, I KNOW :)
[01:28] <\sh> well...to substitute "scary" with the name of an old "Sinclair ZX Spectrum Game" named "Elite"...I knew the German language missed something....
[01:28] <Seveas> btw: http://www.ubuntulinux.nl/quotes?minid=39
[01:29] <ogra> \sh, elite !! i spend a year or so with it :)
[01:29] <\sh> ogra: only one year?
[01:29] <\sh> there is even a java emulator applet of a zx spectrum running "elite"
[01:30] <\sh> that is scary^Welite!
[01:32] <Keybuk> ogra: no, there are no replacements in the traditional sense
[01:32] <ogra> thats what i thought 
[01:33] <\sh> as I said...I missed jdub in my announcement: topic for jdub: "The Secrets of Australian English, or how to make people happy, even if everything just breaking apart..." (Should be Topic No. 1 in our MOTU School)
[01:33] <ogra> i'll find out if the new kino really need them
[01:33] <ogra> *needs
[01:35] <\sh> wow...0:30 UTC...time to sleep because todays morning I have to send some CVs to some companies
[01:35] <sistpoty> gn8 \sh
[01:36] <ogra> \sh, "have to" ??
[01:37] <\sh> ogra: well...yes..we had yesterday a meeting with colin Buechner...
[01:37] <ogra> and ? 
[01:37] <ogra> are you on the list for te next mass firing ? 
[01:37] <\sh> ogra: first question: "Who are you, how long are you working for this company?"
[01:37] <\sh> (implied the rhethorical non asked question: how expensive will it be, to get rid of you"
[01:38] <ogra> yes, ish gmbh ...
[01:38] <HrdwrBoB> "20 years"
[01:38] <HrdwrBoB> "and I've never taken leave, ever"
[01:39] <\sh> ogra: jepp..."not long enough in this company, not married, no kid (well...not officially)"...i'm easy
[01:40] <Nafallo> \sh: you should have told them you where the father of 14 children or something :-)
[01:40] <\sh> HrdwrBoB: this guy wasn't even thinking about money 20 years ago...he is a kid of the real existing communism...
[01:41] <\sh> HrdwrBoB: he just converted 1989 to capitalism because of the bananas
[01:41] <jdub> Seveas: see fridge :)
[01:41] <magnon> howdy jeff
[01:45] <ogra_> magnon, i would so love to ... but no whisky around :/
[01:45] <elmo> /var/lib/dpkg/info/udev.postinst: line 144: /usr/share/update-notifier/notify-reboot-required: No such file or directory
[01:45] <elmo> dpkg: error processing udev (--configure): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
[01:45] <elmo> Keybuk: known?
[01:45] <Keybuk> yes
[01:45] <elmo> k
[01:46] <Keybuk> you brave, brave, brave man
[01:46] <Keybuk> so, err, don't reboot
[01:46] <elmo> it's a chroot
[01:46] <Keybuk> ahh
[01:46] <tseng> speaking of dont reboot
[01:46] <tseng> my new kernel doesnt see /dev/hda1 :/
[01:46] <infinity> Which kinda solves that problem. :)
[01:46] <elmo> it's a porting chroot, what do I care
[01:47] <Keybuk> tseng: see topic (the bit about don't reboot)
[01:47] <Keybuk> and the bit about not installing it 
[01:47] <infinity> tseng : You didn't need it anyway.  (Or, if I nuderstand correctly, wait for the new module-init-tools to build, upgrade, update-initramfs -u, reboot)
[01:47] <tseng> yeah how about that.
[01:47] <tseng> good thing i have 3 pcs in this room
[01:47] <Keybuk> WHEN PATCH SYSTEMS ATTACK
[01:48] <ogra_> slomo, still awake ? 
[01:49] <ogra_> ah, he said good night in -motu already :/
[01:50] <ogra_> Treenaks, here ? 
[01:51] <ogra_> is anyone here a kino user ? i'm looking for testers ...
[01:52] <ogra_> oh, it crashed ... ... ...
[01:53] <Tm_T> this was sort of frustrating
[01:54] <Tm_T> to get even some sound out, I needed to load modules manually (and guessing what I need)
[01:54] <Tm_T> :p
[01:58] <lifeless> mdz: it was good
[02:00] <lifeless> mdz: I'm doing up a strawman smipler interface for the test runner, so that things like lintian/existing package tests can all report in, and the new metadata based virtualisation runner etc reports via that
[02:01] <lifeless> mdz: thats based on the subunit protocol
[02:20] <Keybuk> right
[02:21] <Keybuk> everyone's machines boot again
[02:21] <Keybuk> so I'm going to bed :p
[02:21] <Keybuk> so I'm bouncy enough to deal with the 100 other problems everyone will have found by morning <g>
[02:22] <SEJeff> Keybuk: Do I need to manually run update-initramfs -u, or did the package do that for me?
[02:23] <Keybuk> you'll need to for module-init-tools
[02:23] <Keybuk> it doesn't put itself into initramfs, it gets press-ganged in, so it didn't seem right to update it there
[02:23] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync libcoyotl from unstable, ubuntu override ok. thx.
[02:23] <Keybuk> udev updates it (and there's a -4 on the way in that fixes cosmetic problems)
[02:23] <SEJeff> I guess having modules loaded at boot is kind of important
[02:24] <SEJeff> Thanks
[02:24] <ajmitch> Keybuk: yeah, people were complaining on the forums about not booting - you'd think they'd learn that dapper will break :)
[02:24] <Keybuk> my laptop boots :)
[02:25] <Keybuk> but then it had a version of module-init-tools from before the patch system from hell reverted the patch from the source package and gave me something *else* to upload
[02:26] <Nafallo> Keybuk: *grin* :-)
[02:28] <sistpoty> elmo: if you haven't synced libcoyotl yet, please don't do it yet... I test-built the wrong version :(... sorry for the inconveniece
[02:29] <elmo> sistpoty: sst
[02:29] <elmo> sistpoty: too late it's already done
[02:30] <sistpoty> elmo: ok, thx... then I'll at least check the harm (if any) that I've done :/
[02:30] <elmo> oh, except I managed to misparse your nick as slomo.  so he gets the blame on dapper-changes ;-)
[02:30] <elmo> slomo: sorry about that
[02:34] <sistpoty> elmo: phew... I did build the right version, so nothing bad there... sorry, was a little confused. maybe I should go to bed now ;)
[02:36] <SKK|xhaker> sabdfl in ubuntuforums is really Mark ?
[02:37] <tseng> who else would it be?
[02:37] <seth_k|lappy> an IMPOSTER
[02:37] <seth_k|lappy> treason! :P
[02:37] <SKK|xhaker> i mean
[02:38] <SKK|xhaker> by the sound of this post doesn't seem it is Mark :S http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=517266&postcount=1
[02:38] <mdz> infinity: it looks like l-r-m changed its default rc.d sequence number, but didn't migrate the existing links?
[02:40] <SKK|xhaker> so... is that really Mark? i mean, gtkwifi is coded by myself now and he seems to want to know about it
[02:42] <infinity> mdz : The link migration should have worked, unless I dropped that change by accident in the final upload...
[02:42] <mdz> SKK|xhaker: the posts from that account generally sound like him
[02:43] <mdz> infinity: my link is still at S15, and I didn't see anything in the maintainer scripts
[02:43] <infinity> Which it looks like I did...
[02:43] <infinity> Go me.
[02:43] <infinity> Oh, feh.  I probably forgot to remove lrm-common.postinst from the clean target. :)
[02:43] <mdz> in fact I don't see update-rc.d being called at all
[02:44] <infinity> The code WAS there. :)
[02:44] <mdz> hehe
[02:44] <infinity> Thanks for the catch.
[02:44] <infinity> I'l fix it when we do the ABI bump later today.
[02:44] <infinity> (Which should be in an hour or two)
[02:46] <infinity> Oh, *cough*
[02:46] <infinity>         rm -f debian/linux-restricted-modules-*.postinst
[02:46] <infinity> La la la.
[02:46] <infinity> Oddly enough, * matches "common".
[03:04] <jvw> infinity: don't forget to put /bin/dwimsh in Debian too, or you'll have yet another Debian vs Ubuntu flame ;-)
[03:19] <ogra> cool, booting really feels faster ...
[03:19] <jdon1> is Diziet or some other Firefox guy around right now?
[03:19] <ogra> jdon1, 3am around here ... unlikely
[03:20] <jdon1> oh, hehe
[03:20] <jdon1> I'll bugzilla it then
[03:20] <jdon1> an upstream/trunk bugfix to 1.5 that would be valuable
[03:20] <ogra> it actually might be 2am for him... but still :)
[03:22] <ogra> slomo, is this really you ? or just a reconnect ? 
[03:23] <tseng> if he isnt asleep by now he should be
[03:24] <ajmitch> hi tseng 
[03:24] <ogra> i'm just poking at kino 0.8.0 ....
[03:24] <ajmitch> ogra: not asleep yet?
[03:24] <ogra> nope
[03:24] <tseng> hi ajmitch 
[03:24] <ogra> just building a new power-manager :)
[03:29] <jdon1> geez why are people so friggin impatient about Firefox 1.5?
[03:29] <jdon1> what part of "big system change that has a large ripple effect" do they not comprehend?
[03:29] <ajmitch> because it's new & shiny
[03:29] <jdon1> :)
[03:30] <jdon1> well, then again, Breezy 1.0.7  was a bummer....
[03:30] <tseng> 1.0.7 doesnt break a dozen major apps
[03:31] <jdon1> no it doesn't, but it does render remarkably slowly compared to other Firefoxes
[03:31] <jdon1> something about the 25K lines of patches  applied by Ubuntu :)
[03:31] <jdon1> either way, the current Dapper FF 1.5 sources are still too unstable for backporting
[03:31] <mdz> infinity: did you find out if there was anything to those rumours about php in breezy?
[03:31] <ogra> wow, where did the other 10k come from ? 
[03:32] <jdon1> geez, so I missed by 10K or so... when has that ever harmed anyone ;)
[03:33] <jdon1> hmm, so it breaks Flash in everything but Firefox itself... just wonderful
[03:34] <LaserJock> that's starting to sound like a Windows tactic *grin*
[03:35] <jdon1> ooh, never mind, Java breaks
[03:35] <jdon1> that figures
[03:39] <jdon1> blackdown Java is broken by FF 1.5...
[03:39] <jdon1> would recompiling it fix the problem, or is it something more serious than that?
[03:47] <wasabi> Not that unstable. ;)
[03:47] <wasabi> initrd is broken though
[03:47] <wasabi> Looks like md and lvm and evms are all not playing nice again.
[03:51] <Amaranth> ha, nice nick
[03:51] <backports-r-us> lol
[03:51] <backports-r-us> sabdfl called me that in a meeting, and it's stuck on as an alternate :)
[03:52] <infinity> mdz : Both php4 and php5 in breezy work fantastically for me (and many others), so I think I'm going to have to mail that user directly and ask him to explain in more detail what exactly is going on.
[03:54] <tseng> infinity: i use php5 in breezy very heavily
[03:54] <tseng> no problems
[03:54] <tseng> 10,000 lines of code later
[03:55] <infinity> mdz : Of course, the problems seen "in the sefver forums" could be due to the fact that people are referring each other to broken howto docs. :/
[03:56] <mdz> infinity: thanks, let me know what they say
[03:56] <ajmitch> what was the php rumour? the only issues I've heard are missing php5 modules
[03:57] <infinity> mdz : I'll have to spend some time perusing the forums, but the biggest issues look like "the blind leading the blind" which is leading to more confusion.  I'll try to clear some of it up in a bit.
[03:57] <infinity> ajmitch : php-imap is pure evil.  And I should know.
[03:58] <infinity> ajmitch  : jbailey promised  acouple of years ago to rewrite it using mailutils instead of libc-cleint.  Remind him. :)
[03:58] <backports-r-us> infinity: blind leading blind?
[03:58] <ajmitch> yes, if I remind him about it, he'll just tell me to do it
[03:58] <ajmitch> and I'm sorely tempted these days
[03:59] <akurashy> lol weird nick
[03:59] <infinity> backports-r-us : People leading each other around in circles to diagnose prpoblems that aren't there, while giving advice on how to install things that could work, during the right moon phase, but probably won't.
[03:59] <backports-r-us> infinity: :-/, I roughly know what you're talking about...
[03:59] <infinity> mdz / backports-r-us : Anyhow, I'll try to dig a bit, summarise, propose some changes for the ubuntuguide people, etc.
[04:00] <backports-r-us> infinity: yeah, there's some changes I wanna propose to the guide too, like say GET RID  OF MIRROMAX ALREADY
[04:00] <backports-r-us> apparently the guy running the guide is in some kind of medical trouble
[04:00] <infinity> backports-r-us : It's the other side of the double-edged sword that is a large anf friendly community.  Everyone thiks they're an expert, and everyone wants to help.  Even when some shouldn't. :/
[04:00] <ajmitch> and there he is now, hi jbailey :)
[04:00] <infinity> backports-r-us : Easy enough to rememdy once the bad advice has been spotted.
[04:01] <backports-r-us> infinity: in any community that encourages the "everyone help each other" attitude, that's bound to happen
[04:01] <jbailey> ajmitch: yoyosup?
[04:01] <infinity> backports-r-us : Yup, and in general, I like the community aspect.  Except when I don't. :)
[04:01] <backports-r-us> infinity: we try hard to minimize the probability of bad information damaging others... When it doesn't happen, it need to be brought to our attention. Thanks for doing so
[04:01] <ajmitch> jbailey: just cursing php-imap & how it should be rewritten
[04:01] <jbailey> Ah, right. =)
[04:02] <backports-r-us> In the future, please contact a forum admin with any of these kinds of gripes... we need to know about it 
[04:04] <jbailey> ajmitch: I'm not sure whether "rewrite php4-imap" is above or below "finish the Hurd" on my task list, honestly.
[04:04] <ajmitch> jbailey: I think more people would love you if you rewrote php-imap
[04:05] <ajmitch> finishing the hurd would probably finish you
[04:05] <jbailey> ajmitch: I hack glibc for a hobby and for work.  What makes you think I need love?
[04:05] <ajmitch> you're right
[04:05] <ajmitch> besides, you've got angie :)
[04:05] <jbailey> True ;)
[04:06] <wasabi> Cool.
[04:06] <wasabi> Linux kyoto 2.6.15-5-k7 #1 SMP Tue Nov 29 08:27:28 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
[04:28] <ogra> mdz, :/ no luck with the new kernel/udev/module-init-tools on ltsp clients ... cant load the netcard driver it seems
[04:29] <ogra> infinity, is there anything new about nfsroot booting in initramfs ? 
[04:32] <xhaker> ogra any luck with that initramfs in edubuntu?
[04:32] <ogra> nope
[04:33] <xhaker> i seem to have that /dev/hda not found too
[04:33] <ogra> that what i was just saying above
[04:33] <ogra> thats already fixed 
[04:33] <xhaker> what fixed it?
[04:33] <ogra> update your system
[04:33] <xhaker> i can't
[04:33] <xhaker> it doesn't boot :P
[04:33] <ogra> module-init-tools
[04:33] <ogra> use a livecd
[04:33] <ajmitch> it's part of the dapper experience
[04:34] <ajmitch> knowing how to recover a screwed up system :)
[04:34] <xhaker> chroot into the insstalled system?
[04:34] <Amaranth> my solution: a vmware player image
[04:34] <ajmitch> yes
[04:34] <ogra> chroot to the disk and update ... run dpkg-reconfigure for the linux-image package you use to recreate the initramfs ...
[04:34] <Amaranth> it never boots, it reloads from a snapshot :D
[04:34] <xhaker> :P
[04:34] <ajmitch> Amaranth: some of us are daring & run dapper on real hardware
[04:35] <Amaranth> ajmitch: I could think of a few good words to replace "daring" there. ;)
[04:35] <xhaker> the funny thing is module-init-tools were updated today when i found out -Q patch was missing.. and now i got ****ed by it
[04:35] <xhaker> lol
[04:35] <ajmitch> Amaranth: 'developers', perhaps?
[04:35] <Amaranth> ajmitch: Yeah, that must be it. :D
[04:36] <xhaker> hehe
[04:36] <xhaker> well
[04:36] <xhaker> of i go :P
[04:37] <desrt> well
[04:37] <desrt> erp.
[04:38] <ogra> yay, linux source 6.8 :)
[04:38] <Amaranth> ogra: In the future, does the source have a stable module ABI?
[04:38] <Amaranth> err, not source
[04:38] <Amaranth> kernel
[04:39] <ogra> Amaranth, i'm not the kernel guy... ask #ubuntu-kernel
[04:39] <Amaranth> ogra: Joke Terminated.
[04:40] <ogra> sorry its 4:40am and i just broke my ltsp setup ... 
[04:40] <SEJeff> Amaranth: you sound like the Japanese OSDL. Next you're going to ask for the kernel be relicensed so that proprietary drivers are actually "ok"
[04:40] <ogra> not really in the mood for joking ...
[04:42] <Amaranth> SEJeff: I don't care about proprietary drivers, it'd just be nice to find a driver and install it instead of having to get kernel source and build it.
[04:46] <mdz> ogra: did you try to track down the problem with thin clients and the new boot stuff?
[04:46] <ogra> mdz, i just broke it ... 
[04:47] <ogra> mdz, i get a kernel panic directly after the kernel is uncompressed with "cant open /tmp/net-eth0.conf"
[04:48] <mdz> ogra: what's before that?
[04:51] <ogra> looks like the module loading doesnt work right in initramfs ...
[04:51] <ogra> i'll ask Keybuk tomorrow
[04:51] <ogra> SOICGIFINDEX: No such device
[04:51] <ogra> and ipconfig: no devices to configure
[04:52] <OgMaciel> smurf: excuse me, can I pvt you for a minute?
[04:52] <ogra> OgMaciel, i doubt he's awake, 5am here
[04:53] <OgMaciel> ogra: ohh...  thanks... and where is "here" for you guys?
[04:53] <ogra> germany
[04:53] <OgMaciel> ohh
[04:53] <OgMaciel> ogra: I'll try again much later...  'nite
[04:56] <TreeStump> hi
[04:57] <TreeStump> i think theres a problem with the Ubuntu 5.1 installer
[05:01] <TreeStump> ?
[05:01] <Amaranth> TreeStump: #ubuntu would be a better place to ask, I think.
[05:01] <cshields> jdub: ping (you back from your trip yet?)
[05:02] <TreeStump> ok sorry
[05:02] <TreeStump> they recommended me here
[05:03] <Amaranth> TreeStump: If you've identified the problem and are sure it's not due to a bad burn file a bug in bugzilla, please.
[05:06] <cshields> jdub: I take that as a negative.  will ping you later, thx
[05:09] <TreeStump> its just that i dont think its a bug just i dont think i have the option to use hardware RAID but only software or nothing, which stops me from installing
[05:17] <infinity> TreeStump : It's not up to the installer to setup hardware RAID, it would be up to your RAID controller.  (ie: You'd set it up before you installed an OS)
[05:18] <ogra> mdz, going through initramfs manually and loading 8139too instead of the ide drivers makes it work ... there is something missing in the premount part of initramfs
[05:18] <TreeStump> ive already setup the hardware RAID but the installer will not recognize it
[05:21] <infinity> TreeStump : What sort of hardware RAID?... 
[05:22] <infinity> TreeStump : If I had to guess, I'd say you're using some intel/via/promise "pseudo-RAID" that isn't actually hardware RAID at all, but requires software support to work.
[05:22] <infinity> TreeStump : In which case, we have packages (dmraid) that can help make that go, but we don't (yet) support that in the installer.
[05:24] <TreeStump> ok so i have to wait for my promise RAID to be supported in the installer?
[05:26] <SEJeff> TreeStump: Promise doesn't make the best RAID controllers. 3Ware RAID controllers probably have the best Linux support
[05:26] <SEJeff> TreeStump: And they have great OSS userspace tools to manage their controllers
[05:27] <ivoks> 3ware is ok
[05:27] <ivoks> but dont get latest controler
[05:28] <ivoks> it will be supported in dapper, but it isn't in breezy
[05:28] <SEJeff> TreeStump: I'm not trying to say Promise sucks, but I've heard mostly bad reports about Promise and Linux / BSD in general
[05:28] <ivoks> SEJeff: ?
[05:29] <TreeStump> ok so what if i change to Silicon image?
[05:29] <ivoks> i can tell you only best about 3ware
[05:29] <SEJeff> TreeStump: I'm just speaking from personal experience and what my collegues tell me. I've never used Silicon Image
[05:30] <wasabi> I'm disappointed in my 3ware hw.
[05:30] <wasabi> It's slow on Linux.
[05:30] <TreeStump> because my board has that on it too
[05:30] <ivoks> are we talking about IDE, SATA or SCSI controllers? :)
[05:39] <mdz> ogra: tell Keybuk what you find
[05:40] <ogra> mdz, see 20331 ;)
[05:40] <desrt> anyone with sata running 2.6.15 yet?
[05:41] <crimsun> I am.
[05:42] <desrt> hum.
[05:44] <ogra> mdz, in other news the xorg autodetection didnt work either ... but thats something for tomorrow, 6am, bed time :)
[05:45] <ajmitch> night :)
[05:45] <ogra> night all :)
[05:46] <desrt> crimsun; did you have to manually tweak your initramfs modules config?
[05:46] <crimsun> desrt: nope
[05:46] <desrt> odd.
[05:46] <desrt> well.  brb, i hope.
[06:04] <Diablo-D3> heh
[06:04] <Diablo-D3> udev replaces and conflicts hotplug now? why?
[06:05] <Amaranth> because udev replaces hotplug?
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> it used to co-exist
[06:06] <Amaranth> yeah, but hotplug isn't needed anymore
[06:07] <Diablo-D3> ahh
[07:40] <sivang-zzz> morning
[08:07] <Treenaks> ogra: at 1:50 in the morning? nah ;)
[08:10] <dholbach> good morning
[08:15] <pitti> hmm?
[08:15] <pitti> Hi desrt 
[08:15] <desrt> n8 :)
[08:16] <dholbach> woohoo
[08:16] <pitti> sleep well, desrt
[08:16] <dholbach> good night desrt 
[08:18] <dholbach> lamont, infinity: could somebody of you please give back libgnomeuimm2.6?
[08:34] <jdub> BenC: ping
[08:36] <fabbione> jdub: ubuntu-server mailing list now please. kthxbye
[08:36] <jdub> fabbione: right! right now :-)
[08:36] <jdub> sorry, did a bunch last night, skipped out on that one because i was being lame :)
[08:36] <jdub> oh
[08:36] <jdub> ah
[08:36] <jdub> hrm
[08:36] <jdub> elmo, Znarl: ping
[08:39] <dholbach> hey jdub 
[08:40] <dholbach> hey slomo_ 
[08:41] <slomo_> hi dholbach :)
[08:42] <pitti> Mithrandir: I uploaded the new libgphoto2, which means that you can upload the new libsane
[08:43] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
[08:44] <dholbach> elmo: please sync libfwbuilder from sid, ok to override
[08:45] <pitti> Mithrandir: nice to see the dependency chain resolving :)
[08:45] <pitti> Mithrandir: nice, then /etc/hotplug/usb will be empty
[08:45] <Mithrandir> woo
[08:56] <jdub> eh, so are the new kernels built that will boot? :)
[08:56] <dholbach> sure :)
[08:56] <fabbione> jdub: of course they do
[08:56] <dholbach> without hotplug :)
[08:56] <fabbione> they boot
[08:56] <fabbione> the problems are later on on initramfs/udev/etc..
[08:57] <fabbione> up to your setup to decide if you are "lucky today"
[08:59] <jdub> this quebecistani computer is *never* lucky :)
[09:00] <sivang> jdub: still in .ca ?:)
[09:00] <jdub> yes
[09:00] <jdub> no
[09:00] <jdub> of course not
[09:04] <hunger> Can I do something to help with fixing the linux-meta problem? My box does no longer find the rootfs (/dev/sdaX).
[09:05] <hunger> s/linux-meta/initramfstools or whatever/
[09:05] <pitti> elmo/Kamion: can you please NEW the langpack-locales package?
[09:06] <janimo> pitti, are you the only approver of mainInclusion?
[09:06] <crimsun> hunger: make sure you're running module-init-tools_3.2.1-0ubuntu3 and udev_076-0ubuntu4
[09:06] <pitti> janimo: in principle not
[09:06] <pitti> janimo: but in practice; anything urgent?
[09:06] <janimo> pitti, I don;t know who to ping about xfce main inclusion
[09:06] <pitti> janimo: oh, that would certainly be me, is it urgent?
[09:07] <janimo> since I have no feedback at all so far
[09:07] <janimo> pitti, well not urgent, but would be nice to get all xubuntu stuff into main soon
[09:07] <janimo> so I can  start building CDs
[09:07] <pitti> janimo: can you upload to main?
[09:07] <janimo> it's easier if there are no universe bits
[09:08] <janimo> pitti, no I proposed myself for main-up
[09:08] <pitti> hm, ok
[09:08] <janimo> but these should at least in principle be approved and then promoted when possible
[09:14] <JaneW> sivang: not sure if I got your PM... can you send a again or mail me please?
[09:16] <sivang> JaneW: I'll email you.
[09:19] <mdke_> woohoo the mailing lists are a lot faster now
[09:19] <JaneW> sivang: great thanks
[09:20] <hunger> Wow... this is the first time that I need Windows to fix my linux
[09:21] <sivang> hunger: why not use a livecd?
[09:21] <Diablo-D3> hunger: that sounds wrong
[09:21] <hunger> Diablo-D3: Windows can mount my usb stick with the updated debs I need to make my box boot again.
[09:21] <jdub> elmo, Znarl: ping
[09:22] <hunger> Diablo-D3: The old kernel does no longer do much due to hotplug having been removed.
[09:22] <HrdwrBoB> er
[09:22] <dholbach> hunger: 2.6.12-9 still worked for me
[09:23] <HrdwrBoB> because you can't load the modules manually?
[09:23] <HrdwrBoB> or revert?
[09:23] <dholbach> hunger: i had to load usb-storage and mount the stick manually
[09:23] <crimsun> (hunger: you should still have it in /var/cache/apt/archives/  if you haven't cleared it)
[09:24] <hunger> dholbach: That might have worked as well:-)
[09:24] <dholbach> :)
[09:25] <hunger> dholbach: Well, now I know that windows still boots... just in case I need to update my BIOS or something.
[09:26] <dholbach> i keep my fingers crossed
[09:27] <hunger> I could have such a stable system if I woudn't need to upgrade as soon as I see some new deb popping up!
[09:27] <ajmitch> evening :)
[09:27] <ajmitch> hunger: the addiction can be managed?
[09:29] <hunger> Do I still need to manually create a initramfs after upgrading udev and module-init-tools?
[09:34] <hunger> "udevd-event[x] : run_program: exec of program "/usr/lib/hal/hal.hotplug" failed.
[09:35] <hunger> That's after upgrading udev and m-i-t with the 2.6.15 kernel.
[09:36] <hunger> I guess that is due to /usr not being mounted yet.
[09:36] <pitti> hunger: initramfs should be created automagically now
[09:37] <hunger> pitti: The datestamp on it was *very* old, so I recreated it manually.
[09:37] <hunger> pitti: Just top make sure.
[09:37] <pitti> hm, dunno, I thought udev, uspash, etc. use update-initramfs now
[09:37] <infinity> usplash does.  Not sure if udev does yet, though it should.
[09:38] <seb128> what about speaking with the maintainer about bugs before mailing the list to "revert change of the new version"
[09:38] <hunger> Could that udevd-event thing stop after failing some action for a couple of times?
[09:39] <infinity> If that's a new udev "feature", it can die.
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> ih
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> uh
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> well heres one
[09:39] <Diablo-D3> now that hotplug is gone, insertion of media doesnt bring up a file browser
[09:39] <pitti> infinity, hunger: udev's postinst calls update-initramfs
[09:40] <hunger> 2.6.15 still does not boot here:-(
[09:40] <infinity> pitti : So it does, and it even seems to work.
[09:41] <hunger> Yeap... hal has its stuff in /usr/lib/hal... That is not available at early bootup here.
[09:42] <jsgotangco> hey guys
[09:42] <hunger> Could someone please move the hal-stuff into /lib, please?
[09:43] <pitti> hunger: yes, will do
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> mount -t vfast /dev/my-flash-reader /media/sdb1 doesnt seem to work
[09:43] <pitti> hunger: I did not notice that failure...
[09:43] <infinity> Diablo-D3 : You meant 'vfat', right?
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> yeah
[09:43] <Diablo-D3> damn typos
[09:43] <hunger> pitti: I guess moving /usr/lib/hal/* to /lib/hal should be enough.
[09:43] <pitti> hunger: oh, wait, no - why should we move the complete hal to /lib?
[09:44] <pitti> hunger: the hotplug program does not make sense without hald running
[09:44] <Diablo-D3> does anyone know if automatic opening of file manager windows will work with the new pure udev solution?
[09:44] <pitti> hunger: where did you see that message?
[09:44] <hunger> pitti: Maybe moving /usr/lib/hal/hal.hotplug is enough already.
[09:44] <pitti> hunger: it couldn't do anything since hald is not running
[09:45] <hunger> pitti: During bootup... Dunno where.
[09:45] <pitti> hunger: well, this seems to be rather cosmetic then
[09:45] <hunger> pitti: I get thousands of messages about it being missing.
[09:45] <Diablo-D3> so 2.6.15 is verified not worky?
[09:45] <hunger> pitti: Bootup stops with those messages scrolling by.
[09:45] <pitti> hmm, odd
[09:46] <infinity> Diablo-D3 : Works for me, just not perfectly yet. :)
[09:46] <pitti> grep hal.hotplug /var/log* delivers nothing
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> infinity: ahh
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> damnit
[09:46] <pitti> hunger: I'd rather modify the udev rule to check whether the script is available before calling it
[09:46] <infinity> pitti : One assumes because your /usr is on /
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> I'd normally not even care about a file manager window popping up...
[09:46] <hunger> pitti: I'll check...
[09:46] <pitti> infinity: righto
[09:46] <Diablo-D3> but why isnt mount working >_<
[09:48] <Diablo-D3> I mean more than the usual breakage
[09:49] <hunger> pitti: Can I add the check in the RUN part of that rule?
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> btw
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> does anyone have an opinion on the new human look?
[09:50] <jdub> Diablo-D3: dude. read the mailing list.
[09:50] <pitti> hunger: rather call a PROGRAM (like test -x) and check the result
[09:50] <pitti> Keeeeeeybuk
[09:50] <seb128_> hey hey jdub
[09:50] <Diablo-D3> jdub: the ml kinda sucks.
[09:50] <jdub> Diablo-D3: your post was entirely inappropriate and wrong
[09:50] <jdub> morning seb128_ 
[09:50] <seb128_> I hate those mails
[09:51] <pitti> why does my /etc/udev contain all my devices now and /dev is empty? And where have my /etc/udev/ conffiles gone?
[09:51] <seb128_> people flaming on list when you do a little change on new version
[09:51] <Diablo-D3> jdub: oh screw you. the new look sucks, and if this is what final is going to look like, Im going to quit recommending ubuntu
[09:51] <jdub> Diablo-D3: read my reply, and chill out.
[09:51] <seb128_> Diablo-D3: don't use dapper if you want something stable which doesn't change
[09:51] <dholbach> Diablo-D3: that's not the language we want here
[09:51] <infinity> pitti : You're special, my system has conffiles in /etc/udev, and devices in /dev...
[09:51] <seb128_> Diablo-D3: welcome to a moving distro, work is done, bugs are fixed, not a way to behave
[09:51] <Diablo-D3> seb128_: dapper will be stable someday.
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> which is what Im afraid of.
[09:52] <pitti> infinity: let's swap
[09:52] <seb128_> Diablo-D3: still your post has a totally inapropriate ton
[09:52] <infinity> pitti : I'll keep my own special breakage for now, thanks.
[09:52] <dholbach> Diablo-D3: it's a development release and if you don't intend to participate, stop complaining
[09:52] <Diablo-D3> I think the look should be put back the way it was.
[09:52] <jdub> and based on a complete misunderstanding of the status of the software
[09:52] <jsgotangco> hey jdub
[09:52] <seb128_> Diablo-D3: I think you should not agress people like that
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> jdub: what misunderstanding?
[09:53] <jdub> jsgotangco: yO! you in korea?
[09:53] <jdub> Diablo-D3: again, read my replies
[09:53] <jsgotangco> jdub: Yo! I'm flying tonight!
[09:53] <dholbach> what's wrong with writing a bug report "i think this looks wrong since the new version?"
[09:53] <jdub> jsgotangco: cool, good luck and have fun :-)
[09:53] <jsgotangco> jdub: dude they got me into business class
[09:53] <jdub> rad!
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> jdub: the theme changed, it needs to be put back, no matter if this is dapper or not.
[09:53] <jdub> how long is the flight?
[09:53] <jsgotangco> 4 hours
[09:53] <Diablo-D3> like or not, people depend on how it looks.
[09:53] <jdub> Diablo-D3: that is a totally incorrect analysis of the situation
[09:54] <jsgotangco> i leave 11pm (+8) arrive around 5am (+9)
[09:54] <seb128_> Diablo-D3: what about "fixing" it rather than returning to the stone age?
[09:54] <dholbach> Diablo-D3: and threats like "i stop recommending ubuntu" are completely  inappropriate - they don't change anything
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> otherwise we get retarded windows users saying, "ZOMG UGLY! I WONT USE THIS!"
[09:54] <pitti> can somebody please /msg me the contents of /etc/udev? I need to reinstall the packages which ship rules
[09:54] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: lucky sod! I was in economy all the way to montreal :)
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> seb128_: fix what? it was perfect the way it was.
[09:54] <dholbach> Diablo-D3: man we have other bugs which need fixing too, and we have time left
[09:54] <seb128_> Diablo-D3: cairo is much better than gdk
[09:54] <Diablo-D3> and apparently its ubuntu policy never to roll packages back
[09:54] <jdub> Diablo-D3: again, READ MY REPLIES so you can be informed about the situation
[09:54] <dholbach> Diablo-D3: that's hilarious
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> (assuming the ML is correct)
[09:55] <Diablo-D3> seb128_: well, I guess. I'm not a fan of either.
[09:55] <jdub> (it's pointless to further discuss it further here, because it has been sufficiently answered on the list)
[09:56] <jsgotangco> go Cairo
[10:06] <pitti> infinity: do you have anything in /etc/udev/permissions.d?
[10:06] <pitti> infinity: udev does not create this directory apparently
[10:07] <infinity> dpkg: /etc/udev/permissions.d* not found.
[10:07] <pitti> ok, so it's maybe just a leftover
[10:07] <infinity> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2797 2005-03-29 22:57 /etc/udev/permissions.d/udev.permissions
[10:08] <infinity> Curious.
[10:08] <infinity> hand-made config file, I guess.
[10:08] <infinity> Not sure if it's a leftover or required.
[10:08] <infinity> (hand-made = postinst-made, I never touched it)
[10:08] <pitti> infinity: there is /etc/udev/rules.d/40-permissions.rules
[10:08] <pitti> so let's just see whether that's enough
[10:09] <ajmitch> from when this was sid
[10:09] <pitti> since /etc/init.d/udev restart seems to be borked, let's just reboot...
[10:12] <jsgotangco> see you guys later gotta start packing up
[10:13] <ajmitch> see you, have a great trip
[10:15] <infinity> pitti : Upload, upload, upload, dude.
[10:16] <pitti> infinity: well, I'd like to discuss a proper solution with him first ;)
[10:16] <infinity> Crazy talk. :)
[10:20] <hunger_> pitti: My system boot sagain.
[10:20] <hunger_> pitti: I commented out everything starting with /usr...
[10:21] <hunger_> pitti: Added a modprobe here and there (into my crydtodisks)
[10:22] <hunger_> pitti: Now the system hangs when startin KDE (kdm works fine).
[10:31] <dholbach> fabbione, BenC: do you want to have kernel bugs assigned to ubuntu-kernel-team in malone?
[10:32] <fabbione> dholbach: bugzilla -> linux
[10:33] <dholbach> fabbione: i'm talking about malone bugs
[10:33] <fabbione> there should be no malone bugs for the kernel :)
[10:33] <lucas> hi
[10:33] <dholbach> fabbione: man... there should be no kernel bugs at all :)
[10:33] <dholbach> fabbione: look how many bugs the desktop team has on malone ('gnome' team)
[10:34] <dholbach> i think we're all in a state of 'transition' :)
[10:34] <fabbione> dholbach: that too.. but people shouldn't be using malone for main stuff
[10:34] <fabbione> dholbach: reassign them to the team
[10:34] <dholbach> and i don't want to push users around if we're going to switch to malone in n+x days
[10:34] <dholbach> will do so
[10:37] <seb128> dholbach: yeah, we get almost the same amonth on bug on malone now
[10:37] <\sh> anyone who wants to do some lectures for ubuntu-motu-school? 
[10:47] <fabbione> pitti: i can see your lang pack upload script works :P
[10:47] <fabbione> pitti: you just sinked my local mirror :)
[10:47] <pitti> fabbione: yes, nicely :)
[10:47] <pitti> fabbione: however, I need the new locales NEWed until folks can actually enjoy the new locale stuff
[10:49] <hunger_> pitti: My box boots again with two tine wrappers around hal-unmount.sh and hal.hotplug (just doing an exit 0 if the files are not there/executable)
[10:50] <fabbione> pitti: yeah
[10:50] <pitti> hunger_: ok, I'll add a test -x to the udev rule
[10:51] <hunger_> pitti: Minor glitches are still there, but at least I do get back into the system properly.
[10:53] <pitti> \sh: the new centericq in Debian fixes a security hole, and the Ubuntu changes don't look important
[10:54] <pitti> \sh: may we just stomp over them and sync?
[10:55] <zakame> pitti: I did the merge for centericq, and yes, a sync is best imho
[10:55] <\sh> pitti: please do :)
[10:55] <pitti> elmo: please sync centericq
[10:55] <pitti> thanks
[10:56] <\sh> pitti: (u forgot "ok to override") :)
[10:56] <pitti> \sh: that's pretty meaningless at the moment
[10:56] <pitti> \sh: since packages without changes are autosynced
[10:56] <pitti> so every sync request will be for overriding Ubuntu changes
[10:57] <zakame> hmm, on second thought, the change to remove *.[a|o]  files on clean to enable successful rebuild seems important... I should ping the debian bts then :)
[10:58] <pitti> zakame: oh, you can also merge if you want
[10:58] <pitti> go SCO - they just fixed a 9 months old vuln in an utterly security-irrelevant package (ipsec-tools)
[10:58] <zakame> gaah
[10:59] <zakame> pitti: will do that then :0
[10:59] <zakame> :)
[10:59] <pitti> zakame: oh, thanks
[11:04] <hunger_> pitti: After the upgrade I have about 40%user activitity in top on an idle system.
[11:04] <pitti> hunger_: from which process?
[11:04] <hunger_> pitti: I can't see any... top lists one or two processes with ~2% CPU.
[11:05] <raphink> I upgraded my dapper and now it doesn't recognize my sound card anymore :S
[11:05] <raphink> I wonder what this can be
[11:05] <pitti> the new udev probably
[11:05] <raphink> probably
[11:05] <pitti> the kernel probably doesn't provide a modeline for it
[11:06] <pitti> s/modeline/modalias/
[11:06] <pitti> raphink: same for pcspkr, btw
[11:06] <raphink> pcspkr ?
[11:07] <zakame> pc speaker
[11:07] <raphink> ah ok
[11:07] <zakame> bbl
[11:10] <ajmitch> fabbione: could we get your bot to log #ubuntu-motu-school please? :)
[11:10] <fabbione> ajmitch: no i can't.. i am at the max channel allowed from this net from one user
[11:11] <ajmitch> ah right
[11:11] <ajmitch> I understand that, I have 2 connectoins with irssi
[11:20] <\sh> fabbione: irssi script or perl/python ircbot?
[11:26] <fabbione> \sh: bitchx
[11:35] <pitti> crimsun: thanks a lot for the fuse patch, it look sfine
[11:35] <pitti> crimsun: can you upload this yourself, or shall I do it?
[11:35] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync libghemical from unstable, ubuntu override ok
[11:39] <crimsun> pitti: do I have upload privs to *-security? I didn't think I did.
[11:39] <pitti> crimsun: if you can upload to universe, you have
[11:39] <pitti> crimsun: it will go in my queue anyway, not straight to the archive
[11:39] <pitti> crimsun: I'll release the packages when all arches have built
[11:40] <crimsun> ok, so I upload both?
[11:40] <pitti> yes
[11:40] <pitti> thanks
[11:40] <crimsun> all right, will do. Thanks.
[11:40] <sistpoty> crimsun: what do you want to upload to security?
[11:40] <pitti> fuse
[11:40] <sistpoty> ah... 
[11:41] <sistpoty> pitti: I've recently uploaded libflashplugin-nonfree to multiverse, which installs a newer flash version (old has security issues)... but I'm not 100% happy with the quick fix... any advice?
[11:41] <pitti> sistpoty: what was the problem?
[11:41] <sistpoty> pitti: mom.
[11:42] <Tm_T> hmm, how your mom can be problem with flash...
[11:42] <pitti> *laugh*
[11:43] <sistpoty> pitti: the package is an installer only, but it tried to install the old version: CVE-2005-2628
[11:43] <pitti> sistpoty: ah, right, so by merely upgrading the package you won't upgrade the lib itself?
[11:43] <sistpoty> pitti: I guess you do, but I'll recheck this
[11:44] <pitti> sistpoty: hm, it does not have an integrated notification mechanism? or upgrade mechanism?
[11:44] <pitti> Hi ajmitches
[11:44] <ajmitch> hm
[11:44] <sistpoty> pitti: iirc installing is done in postinst
[11:45] <infinity> Err, wait... We have both an installer package, and a real package for flash?
[11:45] <infinity> That's... Retarded.
[11:45] <infinity> (real package being "flashplayer-mozilla")
[11:46] <pitti> infinity: 'debian is about choice' :)
[11:46] <infinity> This is Ubuntu's fault, I think.
[11:46] <infinity> As in, Debian ships the installer package, Marillat ships the "real" package, we choose to ship both.
[11:47] <pitti> ah, I see
[11:47] <crimsun> yes, we probably should kill flashplayer-mozilla from multiverse.
[11:47] <retrix_> whats the ubuntu method of packaging programs that have i18n? i.e. where should the .po/.mo files get put?
[11:47] <infinity> crimsun : Except that it works...
[11:47] <infinity> (It's what I have installed)
[11:47] <crimsun> infinity: granted.
[11:47] <pitti> retrix_: don't change anything, the buildds will pick up the po files and shove them to the langpack builder automatically
[11:47] <infinity> Assuming we can legally distribute it, we should be using a packaged version, not an installer.
[11:48] <crimsun> we can't
[11:48] <infinity> Then why are we?
[11:48] <pitti> oh, so why we do?
[11:48] <crimsun> "Macromedia's EULA forbids repackaging and/or redistribution of their software so please do not mirror this repository."
[11:48] <crimsun> http://macromedia.mplug.org/site_uh.html
[11:48] <retrix_> pitti: where do they pick them up from?
[11:49] <pitti> errm, and we have it on archive.u.c?
[11:49] <pitti> <jdub mode>WE WILL ALL GO TO JAIL</jdub>
[11:49] <crimsun> pitti: yes, that's why the installer (flashplugin-nonfree) is preferable
[11:49] <pitti> retrix_: well, from anywhere in the source package
[11:50] <pitti> retrix_: and the mo's should be in the standard location (/usr/share/locale/lang/LC_MESSAGES/
[11:50] <retrix_> pitti: ok thanks
[11:52] <pitti> Kamion: is there any reason why w3c-libwww is in main? nothing uses it, it's just seeded
[11:52] <pitti> Kamion: (I just have a pretty complicated security update for it, that's why I was looking for it)
[11:52] <sistpoty> pitti: flashplugin-nonfree will dl a new version on upgrade
[11:52] <pitti> sistpoty: oh, so all is good?
[11:53] <sistpoty> pitti: not all... unfortunately I broke the update mechanism, so always a new version is downloaded 
[11:53] <pitti> ooh :)
[11:53] <pitti> well, it's not that bad, is it?
[11:54] <sistpoty> pitti: minor side-effect, I'd call it: it supplies an update-flashplugin script, which now always fetches the new version
[11:55] <sistpoty> pitti: the new version is already in dapper, should this go to breezy-security then?
[11:55] <pitti> sistpoty: if you follow the steps in SecurityUpdateProcedures, yes
[11:55] <pitti> if you want to
[11:55] <sistpoty> pitti: ok, will read that... thx for your help
[11:58] <Kamion> all_ubuntu_dapper_i386:libwww-ssl-dev                          | w3c-libwww                        | Supported seed                                 | Richard Atterer <atterer@debian.org>                                                  |          614464 |            2612
[11:58] <Kamion> pitti: ^---
[11:58] <pitti> Kamion: right, that's what I mean
[11:58] <pitti> Kamion: but there are no rdepends to it
[11:58] <Kamion> oh, I read what you said as "not seeded" rather than "just seeded"
[11:59] <pitti> it's one of the 'we randomly seeded libraries' cases
[11:59] <Kamion> pitti: feel free to un-rescue libwww-ssl-dev from extra
[11:59] <pitti> well, not randomly
[11:59] <pitti> ok, thanks
[11:59] <Kamion> I've dropped libwww-dev to universe now
[12:00] <pitti> and -ssl-dev?
[12:00] <pitti> I'll unseed it now
[12:02] <Kamion> pitti: not dropped because still seeded
[12:02] <pitti> Kamion: also, may I bother you with NEWing langpack-locales?
[12:03] <Kamion> pitti: I'd rather it waited for elmo today; I have a lot to do and am short on time
[12:03] <pitti> ok, thanks
[12:09] <seb128_> is there a known laptop issue atm? like "something is wrong, since the lastest dapper update my box is damn slow and hangs all the time ....its shuts the disk done all the time, are .. I am on AC,"?
[12:15] <hunger_> seb128: Sleep does no longer work here.
[12:16] <janimo> Kamion, it is still not clear to me what the non-ubuntu-meta packages relation is to standard/minimal seeds
[12:16] <janimo> I copied from kubuntu/edubuntu but this makes messages like Removed hotplug from minimal-i386
[12:16] <janimo> in the changelog
[12:17] <janimo> and mdz told me I should drop minimal/standard from xubuntu, but I am not sure what dropping means in this context
[12:17] <Kamion> don't worry about it
[12:18] <Kamion> as long as you do not generate xubuntu-minimal and xubuntu-standard binary packages, the changelog messages are harmless noise
[12:18] <janimo> so whould I just let minimal standard files and changelogs generated
[12:18] <janimo> ok, thanks
[12:18] <Kamion> yes, leave it be
[12:18] <mvo> Kamion: is http://www.ubuntulinux.org/newsitems/release510 the canonical place for the breezy release notes? 
[12:19] <Kamion> ubuntulinux.org is never the canonical place for anything - ubuntu.com :-)
[12:19] <Kamion> I'm honestly not sure, though. I think so ...
[12:20] <mvo> do we have it somewhere as text too?
[12:20] <mvo> I want to display relesae notes in the upgrade tool :)
[12:20] <mvo> (obviously in the ML archive)
[12:26] <Kamion> mvo: no idea, sorry :(
[12:38] <Znarl> We're moving to ubuntu.com from ubuntulinux.org but both should be equal.
[12:40] <Kamion> doko: do you need help with your merges?
[12:40] <Kamion> Riddell: do you need help with your merges?
[12:43] <doko> Kamion: these are the outstanding python merges, I did want to have an initial python-central version first, so I do not have to touch these twice
[12:44] <doko> Kamion: or do these merges do have absolute priority?
[12:44] <pitti> crimsun: fuse updates released, thanks
[12:45] <crimsun> pitti: thanks :)
[12:45] <Kamion> doko: we discussed in the last Thursday meeting that we would try to get as many merges done as possible by the next meeting, indeed as close to zero outstanding as possible; you did not raise this then
[12:46] <Kamion> doko: in fact, you put "Next week: ... start python merges/syncs" in your update
[12:46] <Kamion> yes, they have priority, it's important for us to see what bugs we're pulling in from upstream as early as possible
[12:46] <Kamion> mdz said "Remaining merges should be completed next week." on ubuntu-devel last Friday
[12:48] <Kamion> if you need someone to help get them sorted today, go ahead and nominate someone, or else shout and I'll try to find somebody who's not looking busy enough :-)
[12:53] <doko> Kamion: yes, "start them", anyway, I can do it, I don't see not much sense, if there's no new upstream version
[12:55] <Kamion> as we discussed in the dapper release process meeting at UBZ (you were there), distinguishing between upstream versions and Debian releases is often not particularly useful
[12:55] <Kamion> merges are something we all have to do and have to live with
[12:56] <Kamion> regardless of whether we think they're irrelevant in particular cases, we need to get them done so that it's possible for people like mdz and me to see where we're at across the whole distro
[01:00] <Nafallo> anyone else seeing slow speeds today?
[01:00] <Mithrandir> Hentet 1119kB p 2s (404kB/s)
[01:00] <Mithrandir> that
[01:00] <Mithrandir> that's from se.archive, though
[01:00] <Mithrandir> so not very useful
[01:01] <Nafallo> :-P
[01:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: care to review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionBootchart, pretty please?
[01:06] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: good maintenance in Debian is probably irrelevant for bootchart
[01:06] <Keybuk> given I packaged it entirely independantly
[01:07] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: better now?
[01:08] <Keybuk> yup
[01:09] <maswan> Nafallo: how often would you like us to update, given that each update takes 20-60 minutes to run (sample size: the last 7 updates)
[01:09] <Mithrandir> maswan: every 60 minutes? :-P
[01:10] <Nafallo> maswan: every half hour :-)
[01:10] <Nafallo> that's how often I apt-get update from archive.ubuntu.com :-)
[01:10] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: you seem slightly obsessed that way.
[01:11] <maswan> hmm.. it seems that the time taken is very time dependant, it is the ~06 updates that takes the longest time. I wonder if that collides with another cron job, perhaps I should shuffle the hours a bit
[01:11] <Nafallo> hihi, I like to try the fresh packages ;-)
[01:12] <Nafallo> still 6 hours between the updates?
[01:12] <crimsun> Keybuk: ping, do you have a couple minutes to explain the udev New World Order to me for a usb sound device that requires its own firmware uploader and firmware?
[01:12] <Nafallo> (except for the ~20 run)
[01:14] <Keybuk> not currently
[01:14] <Keybuk> please file a bug, giving details about your sound device, the firmware uploader (what package it's in) and where the firmware is
[01:15] <crimsun> Keybuk: ok, thanks. It depends on non-free firmware that uses a GPLed firmware loader. I'll see if I can musk it out.
[01:33] <pitti> Hi jbailey 
[01:34] <Keybuk> crimsun: is that why your loading devices takes ages?  I have that problem ... my soundcard modprobe takes 15s of spinning for firmware it doesn't especially need
[01:34] <ogra> Keybuk, udevplug -Bpci -Iclass=0x0200* doesnt work :/
[01:34] <jbailey> pitti: g'm Martin.
[01:34] <ogra> assuming you meant i had to add it in the udev script
[01:35] <Keybuk> ogra: "doesn't work" is not a useful statement
[01:35] <Keybuk> it must work to some degree, so let's discuss what it does and doesn't do instead
[01:35] <ogra> Keybuk, it doesnt behave different at all
[01:35] <Kamion> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
[01:35] <Keybuk> join us in #ubuntu-boot
[01:35] <Kamion> surely all our developers have read that or similar at some point
[01:37] <jbailey> Kamion: Right.  One should at least use technical terms like "No Worky!"
[01:37] <jbailey> ;)
[01:38] <doko> elmo: pleas sync pycurl, overwriting Ubuntu changes
[01:44] <jdub> what's karl tilbury's email address? karl@canonical.com?
[01:45] <jbailey> jdub: rt@admin.canonical.com. ;)
[01:45] <jdub> no, need him direct
[01:46] <slomo_> BenC: seems like therm_adt746x isn't compiled on ppc... but it's needed at least for ibook/powerbook for the temperature sensor which enables the cooler at some point
[01:46] <BenC> slomo: ok, can you email me that info, please?
[01:47] <slomo_> BenC: sure
[01:47] <BenC> thanks
[01:56] <ogra> Kamion, would it be very bad if i wait some days with xscreensaver merge (which splits the package in a very intrusive way, see 3044), i'd rather not do such a change before flight2
[01:59] <Kamion> ogra: is that intrinsically tied to the merge? (why?)
[02:00] <ogra> its not, but my merged package already has the change ... indeed i could raise the version loally and just do a sync first ..
[02:00] <ogra> *locally
[02:00] <ogra> if you prefer this ...
[02:01] <ogra> i just want to be 1287% sure that the split works fine before i upload and dont want to break fligth2 with it
[02:03] <ogra> (there are other changes too to make the hacks work with gnome-screensaver)
[02:05] <doko> elmo: pleas sync python-crypto, overwriting Ubuntu changes
[02:05] <Kamion> ogra: yes, please separate the merge from that stuff
[02:05] <ogra> pitti, thanks for the moodle hint :)
[02:06] <ogra> elmo, please sync xscreensaver from unstable and drop the ubuntu changes :)
[02:06] <ogra> Kamion, thanks ..
[02:09] <jdong_> is the equivalent of amd64_agp supported by NvAGP?
[02:09] <jdong_> ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-7676/README.txt, I wasn't sure about the chipset name
[02:09] <ogra> ask nvidia ? 
[02:09] <ogra> its an option of the binary driver...
[02:10] <jdong_> ok
[02:10] <jdong_> and how do I debug resume-from-hibernate?
[02:11] <jdong_> right now, it resumes but suddenly reboots after reading the pagefile
[02:11] <jdong_> the same happen on both my systems
[02:11] <ogra> hmm, elmo acually no, i'll do the merge myself, forget xscreensaver 
[02:11] <jdong_> the onlything in common is amd64_agp + nvidia GPU
[02:12] <ogra> jdong_, you cant, thats why nvidia binary drivers are not supported for STR
[02:12] <ogra> they might or might not work ... up to nvidia
[02:12] <jdong_> ogra: I'm quite sure the driver itself suspends, but AGPGART doesn't
[02:12] <jdong_> http://www.opensuse.org/NVidia_Suspend_HOWTO reports success by using NvAGP / no AGPGART
[02:13] <ogra> until recently it had no sane suspend option, but mjg59 might prove me wrong
[02:13] <jdong_> ogra: I think they added it in the late 6xxx series
[02:15] <ogra> jdong_, lease ask mjg59 i only know they never worked for me (up to the recent 7XXX) , not even in hibernate, while the nv driver works fine here
[02:16] <jdong_> ogra: hmm, is there a way to have startx switch between 2 xorg.confs?
[02:16] <jdong_> jdong_: I need GLX very rarely
[02:16] <ogra> you can have a xorg.conf in your homedir ...
[02:16] <ogra> rename it to xorg.conf.bak if you want to us the system xorg.conf
[02:17] <jdong_> ok, so startx will automagically use ~/xorg.conf if present?
[02:17] <ogra> yup
[02:17] <jdong_> oh, and also startx -- -conf /path/to/xorg.conf
[02:17] <jdong_> apparently Google says so
[02:18] <sladen> orga: not sure, but you can have multiple layouts in one xorg.conf and start them with  X -layout "Multihead"  or something
[02:18] <jdong_> not currently at a Linux box, but will test when I get home
[02:18] <ogra> no need for the -conf option
[02:18] <ogra> it just picks it up ... here at least
[02:18] <jdong_> ogra: right, but if I wanna store it system-wide
[02:18] <ogra> sladen, oh, thats news to me
[02:19] <jdong_> ogra: probably I'll have a "startx-3d" command for starting a new session with nvidia binaries
[02:20] <sladen> ogra: so I have  Single, Dualhead, Multihead and Xinerama  and those refer to "Screen", which refer to "Device" which refer to "Driver"
[02:21] <dholbach> :)
[02:22] <sladen> ogra: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaptopTestingTeam/ThinkpadR52/Multihead  for a documented file of what all the configs mean
[02:22] <ogra> sladen, done with "ServerLayout" and identified by Identifier i guess ?
[02:25] <ogra> sladen, ah, yes, thats what i thought
[02:25] <sladen> ogra: I think so.  Probably.  Yes.  (Yes, that example uses multiple ServerLayouts but only one driver; copy and paste will get you more)
[02:35] <\sh> hmmm...when is daniels coming back?
[02:35] <Kamion> next week
[02:37] <\sh> Kamion: thx...I really need this little xvfb-run script 
[02:37] <zakame> wb pitti :)
[02:44] <doko> elmo: pleas sync python-sqlite, overwriting Ubuntu changes
[02:46] <Robot101> btw you all want dbus 0.60 in dapper, it fixes the python bindings and merges some of your patches :)
[02:46] <pitti> it's not yet too late to upgrade to it :)
[02:47] <Robot101> it doesn't really break much, only the meaning of some flags
[02:48] <ogra> pitti, apparently they want to rename it to 1.0 shortly after 0.6 is out as well ...
[02:48] <ogra> we should probably go with 1.0 for 3 year support if it doesnt come to late ;)
[02:50] <azeem> J5's blog post sounded like they'd change the API a bit more before 1.0
[02:50] <pitti> ogra: I agree
[02:50] <ogra> oh, i thought they didnt want ... thats something else then ...
[02:50] <pitti> Robot101: 1.0 is supposed to have a stable ABI, right?
[02:51] <ogra> an api change in january might be bad ...
[02:51] <Robot101> J5 is being very optimistic
[02:51] <azeem> "If there are problems with the system we are still open to changes but if all goes well this will be the 1.0 API."
[02:51] <Robot101> calling it 1.0 might commit to an API but it's still buggy :-/
[02:51] <Robot101> I'd quite like to fix crapness before 1.0 is released
[02:52] <azeem> OTOH, he contradicts himself in the previous paragraph
[02:52] <Robot101> but J5 wants to rush 1.0 to commit to the API, no matter how crap it is
[02:52] <Robot101> the pending ABI break is varying the maximum allowable signature length I think
[02:52] <Kamion> merp, somebody put user-setup-udeb in main when I wasn't ready yet
[02:52] <Kamion> ELMO
[02:53] <Robot101> I'm not even sure everyone can build 0.60 because of fuckups in the configure.ac with the qt bindings
[02:53] <Robot101> you can't build it with libxml support, it needs expat, and yet the python bindings have just added a hidden dependency on the libxml2 python bindings
[02:53] <Robot101> total nose bleed.
[02:53] <Kamion> except no, it's in universe. huh? how did my installer manage to pick it up then?
[02:54] <Kamion> I think net-retriever and I need to have a long talk
[02:54] <mjg59> Kamion: Can d-i be beaten into installing to a block device rather than a partition?
[02:55] <Kamion> like I said before, depends on how much you feel like hacking partman
[02:56] <mjg59> Kamion: So partman is responsible for providing a formatted device to the rest of the installer?
[02:56] <mjg59> partman really seems to want a partition table. I, uhm, don't...
[02:57] <Kamion> you need something to prepare /target. In the current installer, that's partman
[02:58] <Kamion> I thought I explained this a day or two ago?
[02:59] <Kamion> partman knows about different disk label types; perhaps it can be convinced to know about one that isn't partitioned
[02:59] <Kamion> I think parted's internal 'loop' disklabel is unpartitioned
[03:00] <mjg59> We discussed whether or not partman would consider non-physical block devices, but not whether it was responsible for providing the fs
[03:00] <Kamion> ok - it is
[03:00] <mjg59> If I write another module that provides the fs, can partman just be skipped?
[03:00] <Kamion> because it's that UI that handles mountpoints
[03:00] <Kamion> theoretically yes, although the packaging issues are complex
[03:01] <Kamion> you'd have to make very sure that partman didn't appear in your image, and it would all be, uh, interesting for netboot
[03:01] <mjg59> Well, it'll need to be a custom d-i build anyway
[03:01] <mjg59> Because it'll also need something to set up the loopback device
[03:01] <mjg59> So I might as well just set that up as a single udeb
[03:04] <Kamion> ok
[03:04] <mjg59> So that might be the easiest way of doing it, I guess - I can have the partman-replacement set up the device, format and mount it
[03:05] <Kamion> sure, that seems reasonable ...
[03:05] <Kamion> you may have to Provides various things that partman-* provide
[03:05] <Kamion> mounted-partitions and suchlike
[03:05] <mjg59> So the "only" problem then is to have something added to the initramfs that'll be used on boot
[03:07] <mjg59> The initramfs is generated on kernel install in d-i, right?
[03:07] <mjg59> So I just need to make sure that an extra package providing the script fragment is installed by then
[03:09] <Kamion> mjg59: yes, preseed base-installer/kernel/linux/extra-packages
[03:09] <Kamion> mjg59: yes, preseed base-installer/kernel/linux/extra-packages-2.6
[03:09] <Kamion> (sorry)
[03:09] <mjg59> Heh
[03:09] <Kamion> it's 'usplash' by default
[03:09] <mjg59> Rocking
[03:10] <mjg59> This is all starting to sound worryingly plausible
[03:32] <Kamion> infinity: current gfxboot patch says:
[03:32] <Kamion> +  If you encouter problems with the graphics code, hold down SHIFT while
[03:32] <Kamion> +  syslinux starts. This will put it into 'failsafe' mode that lets you
[03:32] <Kamion> +  interactively skip critical parts (like monitor detection).
[03:33] <Kamion> infinity: is that good enough for us, do you think?
[04:03] <pitti> hunger: ok, the hal I just upload should fix your problem
[04:03] <pitti> hunger: it does not use hal.hotplug at all any more :)
[04:07] <crimsun> rawr
[04:07] <crimsun> got hotplugging with firmware uploading working with the udev New World Order
[04:08] <pitti> BenC: here?
[04:08] <BenC> yeah
[04:09] <pitti> BenC: I completed the belocs-locales spec this morning
[04:09] <pitti> BenC: but it is still assigned to you
[04:09] <pitti> BenC: can you please update the status?
[04:09] <BenC> pitti: sure, thanks!
[04:09] <pitti> well, langpack-locales is still in NEW
[04:09] <pitti> but otherwise it's all good
[04:14] <BenC> kick ass, belocs-locales is the first one to be marked "Implemented" in our specstable :)
[04:14] <rob^^^> I heard some rumbeling about improving LDAP config and such for dapper, does anyone know the appropriate WikiWord of interest?
[04:16] <Nafallo> rob^^^: NetworkAuthentication if memory provides...
[04:21] <BenC> Keybuk: ping
[04:22] <Nafallo> [15:05 UTC]  <Keybuk> right, while the buildds are building new udev and m-u-t, I'm gonna grab lunch
[04:23] <BenC> thanks
[04:25] <rob^^^> Nafallo: thanks
[04:25] <rob^^^> I run an OS X OpenDirectory server and it's been a very mixed bag
[04:25] <rob^^^> unfortunately its the closed source bits that make the world go round :(
[04:28] <pitti> elmo: can you please NEW langpack-locales to make langpacks installable again?
[04:29] <pitti> elmo: (only the source package is new, the locales package is now build from it instead of glibc)
[04:29] <elmo> pitti: uh
[04:30] <pitti> elmo: bad?
[04:37] <elmo> pitti: no, just, uh interesting
[04:37] <elmo> I assume someone's going to fix glibc to not also build locales?
[04:37] <pitti> elmo: jbailey did already
[04:38] <elmo> so he did, sorry
[04:39] <pitti> elmo: updating locales through glibc was a pain, so we split it out
[04:44] <pitti> elmo: thanks; this means this spec is fully implemented now :)
[04:55] <xkahn> ugh.  ubuntu-devel is member only posting?
[04:57] <Nafallo> every lists is, no?
[04:57] <ogra> xkahn, all are
[04:57] <pitti> every ubuntu lists
[04:57] <xkahn> Kinda annoying for such a high traffic list.
[05:11] <seb128> dholbach: around?
[05:12] <Keybuk> BenC: back
[05:13] <BenC> Keybuk: is udev-roadmap implemented/done?
[05:13] <Keybuk> yes, I think so
[05:13] <Keybuk> mostly anyway
[05:13] <BenC> ok
[05:13] <Keybuk> I've still to fix a few bugs
[05:25] <dholbach>  seb128 yes
[05:27] <seb128> dholbach: you who work on bug policy, what do we do about those using backport?
[05:28] <dholbach> seb128: hrm.... as soon as people tell us, that they use backports and we can't dup the bug (sounds strange), cc the backport guys
[05:28] <dholbach> does that make sense?
[05:29] <seb128> dholbach: "cc the backports guys" ... do they have a list or something? what do we cc?
[05:29] <dholbach> ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com?
[05:29] <seb128> yeah, looks ok
[05:29] <seb128> k, thanks
[05:32] <seb128> (about freetype transition)  the Debian cairo maintainer has dropped a feature to not use a freetype 2.1.10 function ... we have no interest to do this, right?
[05:32] <dholbach> i'm not sure how that would help
[05:37] <sivang> how can I chagne a status of a bug from unconfirmed to NEW ?
[05:38] <sivang> ogra: you are the one giving bug-edit privs right? :)
[05:39] <seb128> sivang: what about picking the line with "NEW" on it?
[05:40] <Keybuk> sivang: you should only confirm a bug if you're not the reporter
[05:40] <Keybuk> confirming your own bugs somewhat defeats the object
[05:41] <sivang> Keybuk: I am not the reporter
[05:42] <sivang> Keybuk: I just verified something that was sure to be working in dapper, and is not
[05:44] <sivang> seb128: pardon?
[05:46] <sivang> Keybuk: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17941
[05:47] <BenC> if there are two packages that provide "foo-bar", and both also conflict "foo-bar" does that have the affect of making only one of them installable at a time?
[05:47] <Keybuk> no
[05:47] <seb128> sivang: you ask how to change a bug to NEW, just pick the line with this label ...
[05:47] <Keybuk> you need all three of Provide/Conflict/Replace
[05:48] <sivang> seb128: I want to change a bug from UNCONFIRMED, to NEW , is this the same for this as well?
[05:48] <BenC> postfix doesn't do that for mail-transport-agent
[05:48] <BenC> it just provides/conflicts it
[05:49] <BenC> replaces doesn't make sense to me for that
[05:49] <BenC> that's more for when a package "goes away"
[05:49] <seb128> sivang: I think I don't get the question
[05:49] <Keybuk> Conflict+Replace is the magic "remove and install this one" combination
[05:49] <sivang> seb128: never mind, I don't own the bug so I can't change it. thanks anywya
[05:49] <Keybuk> Conflict is just a hard conflict
[05:50] <seb128> sivang: if you know what do you ask? 
[05:50] <BenC> provides/conflicts/replaces does not uninstall though, it overwrites in place
[05:50] <seb128> Keybuk: you should make a faq/page about that
[05:50] <Keybuk> seb128: *shrug* it's called POLICY :p
[05:50] <seb128> lol
[05:51] <Keybuk> BenC: right, and then disappears the old package
[05:51] <seb128> Keybuk: yeah, but stuff like using Conflicts when packages don't Conflicts is bad :)
[05:51] <BenC> that's not what I want though
[05:51] <Keybuk> you want interchangable virtual packages?
[05:51] <BenC> postfix/qmail/exim use provides/conflicts for mail-transport-agent, and that seems to be what I want
[05:51] <Keybuk> exim uses all three
[05:52] <Keybuk> debian-policy  7.5.2
[05:52] <Keybuk>      In this situation, the package declared as being replaced can be a
[05:52] <Keybuk>      virtual package, so for example, all mail transport agents (MTAs)
[05:52] <Keybuk>      would have the following fields in their control files:
[05:52] <Keybuk>           Provides: mail-transport-agent
[05:52] <Keybuk>           Conflicts: mail-transport-agent
[05:52] <Keybuk>           Replaces: mail-transport-agent
[05:52] <Keybuk>      ensuring that only one MTA can be installed at any one time.
[05:53] <sivang> anyway, now dinner for real. laterz
[05:53] <BenC> interesting
[05:54] <BenC> anyway, I can retroactively add the replaces or conflicts to the old package
[05:55] <Keybuk> basically the fields go like this (you maintained dpkg once, you should know this :p):
[05:55] <Keybuk> Replaces - allow overwriting of files without error
[05:55] <Keybuk> Conflicts - require removal (because files will be overwritten)
[05:55] <BenC> linux-doc-2.6.12 provides linux-doc-2.6, and I want to have linux-doc-2.6.15 conflict with linux-doc-2.6, so that it uninstalls anything else that provides linux-doc-2.6
[05:55] <Keybuk> when dpkg hits a Conflict, it stops and throws its toys out of the pram
[05:55] <Keybuk> but if dpkg hits a Conflict+Replaces, it automatically removes the package
[05:56] <Keybuk> so
[05:56] <Keybuk> Provides/Conflicts virtual would mean dpkg would refuse to install your selected package until the existing one was removed
[05:56] <BenC> yeah, I get how it works, but the c/p/r combination, from what I remembered, was meant for something else other than mail-transport-agent type things, unless virtual packages are a special case
[05:56] <Keybuk> Provides/Conflicts/Replaces lets dpkg interchange them freely
[05:56] <Keybuk> virtual-packages are special-cased
[05:56] <BenC> will apt do the right thing for me with linux-doc-2.6.15 though?
[05:56] <Keybuk> yes
[05:57] <BenC> then that's all I need
[05:57] <BenC> thanks
[05:57] <Keybuk> assuming linux-doc-2.6 is a virtual package, not a meta-package
[05:57] <BenC> linux-doc-2.6.12 Provides linux-doc-2.6
[05:57] <Keybuk> right
[05:57] <Keybuk> then 2.6.15 should provide/conflict/replace it
[05:58] <BenC> ok
[05:58] <Keybuk> so it can automatically replace any existing package
[05:58] <Keybuk> that also means you can only have one installed at a time
[05:58] <trevilor> hi guys
[06:05] <hunger> And I get "BUG: soft lockup detected on CPU#0!" on the console. Any ideas what I can do to narrow down this bug?
[06:05] <hunger> The box freezes at that point.
[06:18] <BenC> hunger: is there a full oops after that BUG line?
[06:18] <hunger> BenC: Nope, nothing.
[06:18] <BenC> hunger: also, which 2.6.15 dapper kernel, there were quite a few :)
[06:18] <hunger> BenC: I installed it yesterday night. IIRC it is -5-686.
[06:19] <Tm_T> huh
[06:20] <Tm_T> that reminds me: linux-restricted-modules-common doesn't install properly
[06:20] <BenC> try -6-686
[06:20] <Tm_T> but I think you already know this :)
[06:20] <BenC> I fixed a couple of soft lockups there
[06:20] <hunger> BenC: I will upgrade when I get back into my hotel.
[06:21] <BenC> Tm_T: elaborate, please?
[06:21] <hunger> BenC: No net here (at least not for my laptop).
[06:21] <jdub> BenC: known probs with -5-686 versions?
[06:21] <jdub> i'm upgrading now, because this laptop is spewing crap anywya ;)
[06:21] <Tm_T> BenC: oh, sure, just you wait a second
[06:22] <Keybuk> BenC: soft lockup known?
[06:22] <Tm_T> BenC: pkg (subprocess): unable to execute post-installation script: Exec format error
[06:22] <Tm_T> +d
[06:22] <Diablo-D3> well that was interesting
[06:23] <xhaker> BenC, what Tm_T is trying to say is that the postinst file puff
[06:23] <Diablo-D3> 2.6.15-dapper says /dev/sda1 doesnt exist
[06:23] <Tm_T> /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/OpenGL/GL/PGI/vertex_hints.py:28: FutureWarning: hex/oct constants > sys.maxint will return positive values in Python 2.4 and up
[06:23] <Diablo-D3> anyone else have this bug yet?
[06:23] <Keybuk> Diablo-D3: dpkg-query -W udev
[06:23] <Tm_T> and so on
[06:24] <hunger> Diablo-D3: Upgrade mdoule-init-tools and udev. That fixed that issue for me.
[06:24] <Diablo-D3> udev    076-0ubuntu4
[06:24] <Keybuk> Diablo-D3: update to 0ubuntu56
[06:24] <Keybuk> uh s/6$//
[06:24] <Diablo-D3> its not in dapper yet, is it?
[06:24] <jdub> heh, no ! in postinst ;)
[06:24] <jdub> easy fix tho
[06:25] <Keybuk> rookery scott% madison-lite udev
[06:25] <Keybuk>       udev | 076-0ubuntu5 |   dapper/main | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[06:25] <Keybuk> Diablo-D3: "yes"
[06:25] <Tm_T> xhaker: thanks, I'm bit dizzy atm so can't expres myself cleanly allthetime
[06:25] <Diablo-D3> rm.
[06:25] <Diablo-D3> Hrm.
[06:25] <Keybuk> BenC: soft lockup not present in -6, so I guess it was known :p
[06:25] <ogra> Diablo-D3, the /dev/{h,s}dX not found bug was yesterday ...
[06:26] <Diablo-D3> ogra: woot.
[06:26] <xhaker> jdub, LOL.. missed that one.. i was checking the code for something
[06:26] <Diablo-D3> once again Im not the first to find a bug =(
[06:26] <ogra> youre lagging a day with your breakage
[06:26] <Diablo-D3> well, I dont reboot often, ogra =P
[06:26] <Keybuk> sweet
[06:27] <xhaker> ogra, btw, chrooting to update the module-init-tools package was sweet :P
[06:27] <Diablo-D3> btw, in something totally unrealted, I want a tivo
[06:27] <Diablo-D3> just so I can choose what commericals I want to see.
[06:27] <ogra> xhaker, :)
[06:27] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/bootcharts/dapper-20051201-1.png
[06:27] <Keybuk> ^ 0:52
[06:27] <Keybuk> improving
[06:27] <Diablo-D3> Keybuk: how isthat measured?
[06:28] <Keybuk> Diablo-D3: with the bootchart package
[06:28] <ogra> 0:52 here too ... on my lappie with 4200rpm disk :)
[06:28] <Diablo-D3> also, btw, why are we starting hp daemons?
[06:28] <xhaker> Keybuk, i managed to make it 37 seconds.. but i disabled hplip and whatnot
[06:28] <Keybuk> xhaker: *shrug* those start after gdm
[06:30] <xhaker> Keybuk, i disabled some more stuff
[06:31] <xhaker> now i'm at the default again
[06:31] <jc-denton> how stable is dapper compared to debian unstable?
[06:31] <Diablo-D3> how many people use hp printers?
[06:31] <Amaranth> read the topic
[06:32] <jc-denton> NO REALL DON'T
[06:32] <jc-denton> humm
[06:33] <Diablo-D3> lol.
[06:33] <jc-denton> so i'll install it
[06:33] <Diablo-D3> jc-denton: imho, less
[06:33] <Diablo-D3> but thats a good thing
[06:33] <HiddenWolf> Diablo-D3, considering their price, a lot of people.
[06:33] <hunger> jc-denton: It broke my system...
[06:33] <Diablo-D3> HiddenWolf: feh
[06:33] <Diablo-D3> I want hp daemon to be optional
[06:34] <Diablo-D3> just so I can shave like 5 seconds off my boot time or something
[06:34] <Keybuk> Diablo-D3: it is ... uninstall it
[06:34] <Diablo-D3> er, since when?
[06:34] <Keybuk> since we use packages
[06:34] <hunger> Diablo-D3: I agree. Everybody I know uses a dedicated print server anyway;-)
[06:34] <Diablo-D3> then why did some VIP (very important package) install it?
[06:34] <Keybuk> dpkg --purge libc6 if you want
[06:34] <Keybuk> that's optional too
[06:34] <jc-denton> hunger: oh..
[06:34] <HiddenWolf> there is an option in hplibs config to prevent it from booting, right?
[06:35] <Keybuk> you can replace or remove any part of your system as you see fit
[06:35] <hunger> jc-denton: So upgrade with care;-)
[06:35] <xhaker> Keybuk, not if you want to keep ubuntu-desktop
[06:35] <xhaker> S:
[06:36] <Diablo-D3> kubuntu-desktop also depends on hp shit
[06:36] <Keybuk> that's only a problem if you want a supported ubuntu system
[06:36] <Keybuk> and a supported ubuntu system includes support for HP all-in-one printers
[06:36] <jc-denton> heh i think i would need a box only for testing to use dapper
[06:36] <slomo_> fabbione: hi... you told Nafallo to enable xvmc support in mplayer... but mplayer currently supports only a nvidia library it seems, which wasn't found and thus xvmc support wasn't enabled
[06:37] <Keybuk> eventually we may do clever things like only start the HP stuff if the hardware is detected
[06:37] <Keybuk> but not for dapper
[06:37] <hunger> BBL.
[06:38] <xhaker> Keybuk, what if it only starts if the printer gets added to the printer list?
[06:39] <Tm_T> xhaker: gnomes printer list?
[06:39] <xhaker> cups, gnome.. whatever
[06:40] <xhaker> of course someone has to make the daemon start upon the printer add :P
[06:46] <Tm_T> I'm not sure if that's good or even usable way to do it ;)
[06:47] <wasabi_> Cups should start it as part of it's own auto configuration routine when it receives hardware events from HAL. ;)
[06:47] <xhaker> wasabi_is leet :P
[06:50] <Tm_T> humm
[06:50] <Tm_T> maybe
[06:54] <torkel> pitti: ping
[06:58] <\sh> elmo: please sync gnotime from unstable, ok to override
[06:58] <\sh> bah
[06:58] <\sh> elmo: forget it
[06:59] <Tm_T> jdub: ping
[06:59] <\sh> wrong line ...wrong request :(
[07:01] <dholbach> elmo: please sync libfwbuilder from sid, ok to override
[07:02] <jdub> Tm_T: pong
[07:03] <Tm_T> jdub: so you know what's wrong with that restricted modules package? any way I can fix/help to fix it?
[07:03] <jdub> nup
[07:03] <jdub> talk to BenC and infinity 
[07:04] <Tm_T> aye sir
[07:04] <Tm_T> anything so I get nvidia drivers working ;)
[07:04] <\sh> jdub: what do I have to do to put something on The Fridge?
[07:05] <jdub> \sh: mail the editors - fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[07:05] <\sh> jdub: merci :)
[07:05] <jdub> gotta go, battery running out
[07:09] <crevette> hello
[07:09] <torkel> Tm_T: edit var/lib/dpkg/info/linux-restricted-modules-common.postinst and change #/bin/sh to #!/bin/sh
[07:10] <Tm_T> torkel: ah, I will try, thanks :)
[07:10] <\sh> elmo: please sync hasciicam , hdf5 from unstable, ok to override (and now this is right :))
[07:10] <crevette> Since 2 days my sound modules are not loaded automaticaaly (I use dapper), is it a known issue ?
[07:10] <Tm_T> torkel: thank you sir :)
[07:11] <torkel> Tm_T: np
[07:11] <Tm_T> hmm, maybe I feel adventurous and even test if it really works ;)
[07:11] <Tm_T> I mean new kernel etc
[07:12] <Tm_T> yes, testing ->
[07:15] <BenC> crevette: 2.6.15 kernel? latest udev?
[07:16] <raphink> hmm
[07:16] <raphink> I can't seem to install hotplug
[07:16] <raphink> it says it requires to uninstall all my kernels and kernel-modules
[07:16] <BenC> that's because it should be there anymore
[07:16] <crevette> BenC> I tried 2.6.15 but I had the same with 2.6.12
[07:16] <BenC> shouldn't
[07:16] <raphink> which is a bit ... unuself
[07:17] <crevette> so I assume its a known pb
[07:17] <crevette> :)
[07:17] <raphink> BenC: ?
[07:17] <raphink> but then
[07:17] <HiddenWolf> crevette, not a known problem, design decision.
[07:17] <BenC> raphink: hotplug is obsolete
[07:17] <raphink> all my USB stuff are not recognized anymore
[07:17] <BenC> upgrade udev
[07:17] <raphink> except the mouse
[07:17] <raphink> BenC: well ok
[07:17] <raphink> then how come my printer doesn't work anymore?
[07:17] <raphink> nor my USB key?
[07:17] <BenC> and use 2.6.15, and if all else fails, file a bug report
[07:17] <raphink> they don't mount
[07:17] <raphink> they are shown in usbview
[07:17] <crevette> HiddenWolf>hum ok
[07:17] <BenC> are you using 2.6.15 and latest udev?
[07:17] <raphink> but can't be used
[07:18] <raphink> ok
[07:18] <raphink> I'll try that
[07:18] <raphink> earlier today I used 2.6.15 and it wouldn't start
[07:18] <raphink> it would freeze at PCMCIA staring during boot
[07:18] <raphink> so I booted with 2.6.12
[07:18] <BenC> make sure it's 2.6.15-6.8
[07:18] <raphink> I'll reboot with 2.6.15 
[07:18] <raphink> BenC: 
[07:18] <raphink> I'm up-to-date on dapper
[07:18] <raphink> ;)
[07:18] <BenC> crevette: you also need newer udev
[07:19] <BenC> raphink: up-to-date since 12 hours ago?
[07:19] <raphink> just upgraded a few minutes ago BenC 
[07:19] <raphink> I upgraded 4 times today
[07:19] <raphink> ;)
[07:19] <BenC> ok, please make sure it's latest 2.6.12-6.8, just so I can rest easy, just need to "ls -l /boot"
[07:20] <crevette> BenC> tx
[07:20] <BenC> 2.6.15-6.8 I mean
[07:20] <raphink> ii  linux-image-2.6.15-5-k7     2.6.15-5.7                  Linux kernel image for version 2.6.15 on AMD K7 SMP/UP
[07:20] <raphink> that's the one I have
[07:20] <BenC> wrong one
[07:20] <raphink> oh ok
[07:20] <raphink> well it's default one in dapper
[07:20] <raphink> 2.6.15-6 doesn't replace it yet
[07:20] <raphink> but I'll put it
[07:20] <BenC> apt-get install linux-image-2.6.16-6-k7
[07:21] <BenC> damnit, .15 :)
[07:21] <raphink> hehe 
[07:21] <raphink> ;)
[07:21] <raphink> Rception de: 1 http://archive.ubuntu.com dapper/main linux-image-2.6.15-6-k7 2.6.15-6.8 [21,7MB] 
[07:21] <raphink> that's fine, right?
[07:21] <raphink> ;)
[07:22] <raphink> does it change many things from 2.6.12 ?
[07:22] <BenC> yes, but you shouldn't really notice
[07:22] <BenC> mostly under-the-hood stuff
[07:23] <raphink> ok
[07:23] <raphink> I'll try it
[07:23] <BenC> linux-meta was updated so that -6 gets pulled in, so you would get that kernel soon anyway
[07:23] <raphink> :)
[07:23] <raphink> bubbye :)
[07:24] <HiddenWolf> keyword being "shouldn't"
[07:43] <xhaker> does anyone know why intel soundcards doesn't work now? just wanna know if it's udev, kernel or alsa, would be "sad" if it was neither
[07:45] <xhaker> seems to be alsa.. since i can OSS
[07:45] <xhaker> :P
[07:45] <xhaker> i don't really know nothing
[07:45] <Keybuk> what sound card driver?
[07:46] <raphink> xhaker: did you upgrade and switch to kernel 2.6.15-6 ?
[07:46] <raphink> xhaker: did you upgrade and switch to kernel 2.6.15-6 ?
[07:47] <raphink> I had the same pb, with an ASUS MB
[07:47] <raphink> I upgraded to kernel 2.6.15-6 and it works now
[07:48] <raphink> VIA 8235
[07:48] <raphink> I still have USB pbs though
[07:48] <raphink> which is pretty bad since I need to print something :(
[07:48] <xhaker> i'm running that kernel now
[07:48] <xhaker> no change
[07:48] <raphink> Keybuk: my printer is not listed in the printer list in kcontrol anymore
[07:48] <xhaker> alsa-utils refuses to start
[07:49] <raphink> and in usbview its reference is in red
[07:49] <Keybuk> xhaker: known bug
[07:49] <raphink> it's already configured but won't print :(
[07:49] <raphink> (it worked fine yesterday)
[07:49] <Keybuk> raphink: interesting.  what kind of printer, what model, make, etc?
[07:49] <xhaker> Keybuk, any bug number?
[07:49] <raphink> what kernel xhaker ?
[07:49] <raphink> what version?
[07:50] <raphink> Keybuk: PSC 1510
[07:50] <Keybuk> xhaker: not yet
[07:50] <raphink> Keybuk: my USB key won't work anymore either
[07:50] <xhaker> 2.6.15-6
[07:50] <Keybuk> raphink: is it a USB printer? Parallel port? etc.?
[07:50] <raphink> since this morning's upgrade
[07:50] <raphink> (so I'd say 10 hours ago)
[07:51] <raphink> hmm the USB key seems to work again now
[07:51] <raphink> Keybuk: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/445208
[07:52] <Keybuk> ok, unplug the printer
[07:52] <Keybuk> run udevmonitor -e
[07:52] <Keybuk> then plug it back in again
[07:53] <xhaker> Keybuk, can you please tell me the why of his bug with the soundcard? 
[07:54] <xhaker> this* :)
[07:54] <raphink> Keybuk: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/445211
[07:54] <Keybuk> xhaker: I haven't done anything with converting sound cards to the new world order yet
[07:55] <xhaker> you mean /dev...
[07:55] <Keybuk> huh?
[07:55] <Keybuk> raphink: do you have a /dev/lp0 ?
[07:55] <raphink> Keybuk: how do you like that ? ;)
[07:56] <raphink> how do I know that Keybuk ? :s
[07:56] <Keybuk> "ls" is favourite
[07:56] <Keybuk> also do you have /dev/bus/usb/001/005 ?
[07:56] <raphink> hehe
[07:56] <raphink> yes I do
[07:56] <Keybuk> for both?
[07:56] <raphink> yes
[07:56] <Keybuk> I suspect your configured printer is for /dev/usb/lp0 ?
[07:56] <raphink> both
[07:57] <raphink> wait a min
[07:57] <raphink> I'll tell you that
[07:57] <Keybuk> and does symlinking /dev/usb/lp0 to /dev/lp0 make your configured printer work?
[07:57] <raphink> well 
[07:58] <raphink> in kcontrol my printer is set to : usb://6543?serial=MY58GDC10M0498
[07:58] <raphink> lol
[07:58] <raphink> not sure that helps
[07:58] <Keybuk> freaky
[07:58] <Keybuk> does making the symlink make it work?
[07:58] <raphink> that's the peripheral
[07:59] <raphink> hmm I'll try
[07:59] <raphink> ln -s /dev/lp0 /dev/usb/lp0 
[07:59] <raphink> right?
[07:59] <Keybuk> right, you may need to mkdir
[07:59] <raphink> mhm
[08:00] <raphink> let's try
[08:00] <raphink> well done Keybuk ;)
[08:01] <raphink> what is it linked to iyo?
[08:01] <Keybuk> ok
[08:01] <Keybuk> needs a BUS=="usb", KERNEL=="lp[0-9] *", NAME="usb/%k" rule putting back
[08:01] <raphink> something missing in a package ?
[08:01] <spotter> anyone having lockup issues w/ the new .15 kernel?
[08:02] <Keybuk> spotter: which "new" kernel?
[08:02] <spotter> 686 .15-5.7
[08:02] <Keybuk> yes, everybody, updgrade to .15-6.8
[08:02] <raphink> use 6.8
[08:02] <raphink> it works great :)
[08:03] <spotter> got repeated crashes when I clicked and dragged w/ mouse
[08:03] <spotter> what was hte problem?
[08:03] <spotter> btw, lrm-common don't work well with .12 :)
[08:03] <Keybuk> nothing will work with .12
[08:03] <spotter> had to manually get my madwifi working :)
[08:03] <spotter> well, I managed to get bitchx up and running to get here :)
[08:03] <spotter> Keybuk: where can I download 6.8?
[08:04] <spotter> just apt-get updated, don't see it
[08:04] <raphink> spotter: just apt-get update
[08:04] <raphink> and it's on the repos
[08:04] <spotter> I did
[08:04] <spotter> not on the one I seem to check
[08:04] <raphink> and you didn't find it?
[08:04] <spotter> archive.ubuntu.com
[08:04] <spotter> nope
[08:04] <spotter> not there
[08:05] <raphink> well yes
[08:05] <spotter> ah I see it
[08:05] <raphink> it is
[08:05] <raphink> in main on archive.ubuntu.com
[08:05] <spotter> why hasn't the meta package been updated
[08:05] <raphink> I have it
[08:05] <spotter> it's -6
[08:05] <spotter> not -5
[08:05] <raphink> hehe ;)
[08:05] <raphink> ;)
[08:05] <raphink> yep
[08:05] <raphink> -6.8
[08:06] <spotter> someone should update the meta package :)
[08:06] <spotter> lots of people might be forced upgraded to -5 and reboot
[08:06] <raphink> well -6-[i363|i686|k7] 
[08:06] <spotter> oh
[08:06] <raphink> yes someone ;)
[08:06] <spotter> so not on all platforms, so no meta package yet?
[08:07] <raphink> yes it's on all platforms
[08:07] <raphink> no smp yet, but that was also the case for .15-6
[08:08] <raphink> btw, I'm wondering : why wasn't .14 used ? and isn't .15 a dev version?
[08:08] <spotter> raphink:
[08:08] <raphink> (or did the kernel release policy change lately?)
[08:08] <spotter> raphink: I figured this is to track .15 to make a .16 release
[08:08] <spotter> ala gnome 2.13
[08:08] <Keybuk> we're releasing with 2.6.15
[08:08] <raphink> hmm ok
[08:09] <raphink> Keybuk: in april, releasing dapper as stable with .15 ?
[08:09] <Keybuk> kernel release policy is soooo off-topic here, the topic pixies will eat you if you try and discuss it <g>
[08:09] <Keybuk> yes
[08:09] <raphink> hzhz
[08:09] <raphink> haha
[08:09] <raphink> ok
[08:09] <raphink> well just that it sounds funny to release a stable distro with a .15 kernel
[08:09] <Keybuk> why?
[08:10] <raphink> hmm
[08:10] <raphink> oh no, it's just the second number of the kernel version that counts for devel
[08:10] <spotter> Keybuk: cause it's not considered stable by kernel devs?
[08:10] <raphink> not the third
[08:10] <raphink> so 2.6.x are stable
[08:10] <raphink> and 2.7.x are dev 
[08:10] <raphink> right?
[08:10] <spotter> raphink: no
[08:10] <spotter> they changed that
[08:10] <raphink> hmm 
[08:10] <spotter> now doing alternate releases
[08:10] <Keybuk> no.
[08:10] <spotter> merging and stabelization
[08:10] <Keybuk> spotter: wrong.
[08:10] <raphink> spotter: I'm lost with kernel versions lol
[08:11] <spotter> Keybuk: I was under the impression that 2.6.x where x is odd are now for merging, and where x is even are no merging done, just bug fixes
[08:11] <Keybuk> spotter: nope
[08:11] <spotter> ok
[08:11] <spotter> guess I was wrong
[08:11] <spotter> not the first time
[08:11] <spotter> anyone having problems configure lrm-common w/ a "Exec format error"
[08:12] <raphink> heh, most of us are wrong before being right ;)
[08:12] <Keybuk> spotter: everyone.
[08:12] <spotter> :(
[08:12] <spotter> I looked at the script
[08:12] <spotter> it looks sane
[08:13] <Keybuk> except for the missing ! on the first line
[08:13] <raphink> ok I'm out :)
[08:13] <spotter> ah
[08:13] <spotter> I'm blind
[08:13] <raphink> thank you so much Keybuk, you saved my life on this printer stuff ;)
[08:14] <spotter> and now to reboot into -6
[08:22] <mdz> Keybuk: potpal:[/tmp]  diff -u -I '\.static' -I '\.udev' old-dev.txt new-dev.txt
[08:22] <mdz> potpal:[/tmp] 
[08:22] <mdz> that's promising
[08:23] <mdz> it's also completely unbelievable
[08:23] <mdz> ah, that's more like it
[08:23] <Keybuk> mdz: what are you trying to do? :p
[08:23] <mdz> Keybuk: compare the device nodes I got under breezy with the ones I have now
[08:23] <Keybuk> ahh
[08:23] <mdz>  1 file changed, 326 insertions(+), 327 deletions(-)
[08:23] <Keybuk> ?!
[08:24] <Keybuk> did you not exclude .udevdb / .udev ?
[08:24] <mdz> I did
[08:24] <Tm_T> oh great
[08:24] <mdz> Keybuk: here's one I don't particularly like:
[08:24] <mdz> drwxrwxrwt 15 root root 14100 2005-12-01 09:50 /dev
[08:24] <Tm_T> somehow my eth0 isn't pulled up at boot
[08:25] <Keybuk> hmm
[08:25] <Keybuk> wonder why that happens
[08:25] <mdz> missing mode= on the tmpfs mount?
[08:25] <Keybuk> there wasn't a mode= on the tmpfs mount in breezy
[08:25] <Keybuk> mount -t ramfs none /dev
[08:25] <Keybuk> ^ from breezy initramfs
[08:26] <mdz> maybe init.d/udev fixed it up?
[08:26] <Keybuk> possibly, just looking now
[08:26] <mdz> or perhaps ramfs defaults to 755
[08:26] <mdz> while tmpfs defaults to 1777
[08:26] <mdz> Keybuk: anyway, I mailed you the full diff from my laptop
[08:26] <Keybuk> mdz: yup, you got it
[08:27] <mdz>  /dev/dvd* are missing
[08:27] <Riddell> Kamion: my merges were delayed because of libstdc++ transition, getting KDE gettext support in and getting KDE 3.5 in, and now I'm at OSDL
[08:27] <mdz>  /dev/evms now has correct permissions
[08:27] <mdz> Keybuk: ignore the /dev/fb diff; the old one is from a server install
[08:27] <Riddell> Kamion: I don't think I need any help but obviously I'm not going to complain if someone does it for me :)
[08:28] <mdz>  /dev/kmem is missing
[08:28] <doko> infinity. lamont: please fix the buildd's or please tell me, why the test in the bash build is wrong.
[08:28] <mdz> a few other bits here and theer
[08:28] <mdz> there
[08:29] <doko> Riddell: you can remove the hppa workaround building with 3.4, when gcc-4.0_4.0.2-4ubuntu4 is in the archive for hppa
[08:29] <Riddell> doko: excellent
[08:30] <shaya> well, -6-6.8 don't work for me
[08:30] <shaya> hangs too
[08:30] <shaya> and .12 and udev wont work together, meaning no gnome right now
[08:30] <shaya> hopefully hoary's udev will install
[08:31] <Keybuk> shaya: udev requires 2.6.15
[08:31] <shaya> yes
[08:31] <shaya> hence "hoary's udev"
[08:31] <shaya> as 2.6.15-6 aint working for me
[08:31] <shaya> hanging in X means cant debug it
[08:31] <shaya> t42p has no serial cosnole
[08:33] <shaya> hmm, htere is no udev in hoary?
[08:33] <shaya> weird
[08:33] <mdz> Keybuk: this is fairly strange:
[08:33] <mdz> +dev/disk/by-path/pcmcia--ide-0:0 root root 777 ../../hda
[08:33] <mdz> shaya: there certainly is
[08:33] <shaya> right, but I dont see it in aptitude
[08:33] <xhaker> shaya, maybe what you want is breezy?
[08:34] <shaya> oh right
[08:34] <shaya> I'm an idiot
[08:35] <mdz> regardless, there are udevs in warty, hoary and breezy as well as dapper
[08:35] <shaya> aptitude dont show it
[08:35] <shaya> I know there was
[08:35] <shaya> wondering why aptitude refuses to show it
[08:35] <mdz> then you haven't configured it to show you the packages from those releases
[08:35] <shaya> I am
[08:35] <shaya> aptitude -t breezy even
[08:35] <mdz> that doesn't cause it to download package lists for breezy
[08:36] <xhaker> we should setup some bot to remind all of us.. sleep deprivation causes bad things 
[08:37] <xhaker> /var/lib/dpkg/info/language-pack-en-base.postinst: line 4: /usr/share/locales/install-language-pack: Permission denied
[08:39] <shaya> mdz: an update should
[08:39] <shaya> but it didn't
[08:39] <shaya> needed to apt-get updat
[08:39] <shaya> for some reason aptitude update refused to update those lists
[08:39] <torkel> xhaker: filed as #20351
[08:39] <mdz> you probably didn't have them in sources.list
[08:40] <xhaker> thanks torkel 
[08:40] <shaya> mdz: I did, ran apt-get update right after quiting aptitude
[08:40] <shaya> after apt-cache show showed that it hadn't updated those lists
[08:40] <mdz> you probably didn't have them in sources.list [the last time you ran an update] 
[08:40] <shaya> I agree that's what it would seem, but I'm pretty sure I did
[08:41] <torkel> xhaker: just change the permission of /usr/share/locales/{install-language-pack,remove-language-pack} and reinstall the lang-packages
[08:41] <xhaker> yeh toresbe 
[08:41] <xhaker> torke
[08:41] <Keybuk> mdz: strange how?  it's a pcmcia ide controller?
[08:42] <mdz> Keybuk: no, it isn't
[08:42] <mdz> it's a PCI IDE controller
[08:43] <Keybuk> heh
[08:45] <Keybuk> mdz: SATA controller?
[08:46] <mdz> Keybuk: nope
[08:46] <mdz> 0000:00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801DBM (ICH4-M) IDE Controller (rev 01)
[08:46] <mdz> Keybuk: this is on my T42
[08:46] <Keybuk> weird
[08:46] <Keybuk> what does readlink /sys/block/hda/device say?
[08:50] <xhaker> ../../devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.1/ide0/0.0 for mine.. i got the same controller
[08:52] <mdz> pitti: these postgresql debconf messages cause FURY
[08:52] <mdz> Keybuk: ../../devices/ide0/0.0
[08:54] <pitti> mdz: yes, sorry, I had no time to do Debian stuff yesterday and today :/
[08:55] <pitti> mdz: but there is an easy fix, just remove the old packages :)
[08:55] <mdz> pitti: you know about "/usr/share/locales/install-language-pack: Permission denied" already ,right?
[08:55] <Keybuk> mdz: hmm, top-level ide controller ... could mean your IDE controller module wasn't loaded properly
[08:55] <mdz> pitti: launchpad only works with 8.0
[08:55] <pitti> mdz: uh, no, I don't
[08:55] <fabbione> slomo: i doubt but i will look at it
[08:56] <mdz> pitti: there will be other people in the same position, who must stay with 8.0 for one reason or another, and we should not harass them
[08:56] <pitti> mdz: yes, I'll fix the note eventually
[08:57] <mdz> Keybuk: for what value of 'properly'?
[08:57] <mdz> Keybuk: it was sufficient to mount the root filesystem at least
[08:57] <slomo_> fabbione: is xvmc support really important for you atm? i'm currently repackaging mplayer as marillat's package was unmaintainable...
[08:57] <fabbione> slomo: well it's nice to have.
[08:58] <Keybuk> what does readlink /sys/devices/ide0/0.0/driver say?
[08:58] <mdz> ../../../bus/ide/drivers/ide-disk
[08:58] <Keybuk> is there a /sys/devices/ide0/driver ?
[08:59] <slomo_> fabbione: sure :) i'll take a closer look tomorrow
[08:59] <Keybuk> and lsmod | grep ide_core ... is there a "real" driver tagged on there other than ide_generic
[08:59] <hunger> l-r-m-common has a broken postinst (missing ! in #!/bin/sh).
[09:00] <hunger> The 2.6.15-6-686 kernel does not boot. The initramfs does not find /dev/sd*
[09:01] <Keybuk> hunger: update udev and module-init-tools
[09:01] <hunger> Keybuk: I did!
[09:01] <hunger> Keybuk: -5-686 boots
[09:01] <crimsun> Keybuk: the latest udev breaks it again for me
[09:01] <Keybuk> udev or kernel?
[09:01] <crimsun> udev.
[09:01] <Keybuk> which breaks and which works?
[09:01] <fabbione> DEVELOPER MEETING -> now
[09:02] <crimsun> Keybuk: 076-0ubuntu4 works, neither 3 nor 5 do
[09:03] <hunger> Keybuk: I am at whatever is in the archives right now. That does NOT work.
[09:03] <Keybuk> it works for me
[09:03] <Keybuk> so clearly it does work
[09:03] <Keybuk> and there's something different about your machine
[09:04] <Keybuk> your root filesystem is /dev/sda1 and it doesn't exist?
[09:04] <crimsun> must be. /dev/sda3 can't be found with either 3 or 5, which is probably the same issue hunger is running into.
[09:04] <hunger> Keybuk: Yeap. /dev/sda1 is on the disk.
[09:04] <Keybuk> "is on the disk" ?
[09:04] <hunger> Keybuk: It is not found in /dev
[09:04] <Keybuk> righ
[09:05] <pitti> mdz: locales package fixed
[09:05] <Keybuk> boot with break=premount on the kernel command line
[09:05] <Keybuk> . conf/initramfs.conf
[09:05] <Keybuk> . scripts/functions
[09:05] <Keybuk> . scripts/$BOOT
[09:05] <Keybuk> scripts/init-premount/acpid
[09:05] <Keybuk> udevd --daemon
[09:05] <Keybuk> uh, UDEV_LOG=info udev --daemon
[09:08] <dholbach> Kamion: so what is the car like? :)
[09:10] <ogra> Keybuk, gold ?
[09:11] <Keybuk> ogra: waiting for either crimsun or hunger to declare they've reached the initramfs prompt
[09:11] <ogra> ah :)
[09:12] <pitti> seb128: I'll try this fi_FI.UTF-8 bug tomorrow; with a bit of luck, the belocs locales even fix it :)
[09:13] <slomo_> fabbione: seems like i got it working... i'll try if it only builds or if it actually works ;)
[09:13] <fabbione> ok
[09:14] <Keybuk> *shrug* guess the lack of a root filesystem can't be _that_ important to them then <g>
[09:17] <crimsun> Keybuk: I'll reboot to test as soon as I'm finished with office hours
[09:17] <crimsun> (13 mins)
[09:20] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[09:20] <torkel> pitti: if you have fixed locales I'll close #20351 (If I am allowed to close bugs I have submitted)
[09:20] <pitti> torkel: I fixed the permissions of {install,remove}-language-pack
[09:20] <pitti> torkel: I didn't look at bugs yet
[09:21] <pitti> torkel: right, it's that
[09:21] <torkel> pitti: yeah, I filed a bug about it while you was away :-)
[09:21] <pitti> torkel: I'll close it in a minute with the changelog
[09:21] <torkel> pitti: ok
[09:21] <pitti> closed
[09:21] <pitti> thanks
[09:27] <elmo> dholbach: umm
[09:27] <elmo>  Homepage: ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/gnome-web-photo
[09:28] <dholbach> elmo: i can change it
[09:28] <elmo> dholbach: do you really think that's worthwhile info for the extended description?
[09:28] <dholbach> elmo: maybe not, you're right
[09:28] <elmo> meric
[09:28] <elmo> merci too.  damn it, can't have my language trolling spoiled by typoes
[09:28] <dholbach> :)
[09:30] <Keybuk> lol @ splash screen
[09:32] <elmo> sigh
[09:36] <sistpoty> elmo: read in backlog my sync-request for libghemical (ubuntu override ok)?
[09:36] <lamont__> doko: debootstrap doesn't build /dev/fd
[09:36] <doko> lamont__: please fix it
[09:37] <ajmitch> elmo: please sync module-assistant, changes can be dropped
[09:37] <Kamion> debootstrap defers to frontends for most devices these days
[09:38] <lamont__> ls -l /dev/null
[09:38] <lamont__> c---------  1 root root 1, 3 May  9  2005 /dev/null
[09:38] <lamont__> now that's amusing
[09:39] <crimsun> Keybuk: there's no scripts/init-premount/acpid
[09:40] <Keybuk> crimsun: sorry, it's called thermal now
[09:40] <Keybuk> crimsun: can you come on #ubuntu-boot so we don't flood the channel
[09:41] <torkel> BenC: ping
[09:41] <BenC> torkel: pong
[09:41] <torkel> BenC: Got a sec or to for a kernel related question?
[09:41] <pitti> ogra: but the coded isn't in gstramer0.8-mad
[09:41] <pitti> ogra: it's in libmad0, which is in main since warty
[09:41] <BenC> torkel: shoot, but give me a minute or two to answer
[09:42] <torkel> BenC: I'm trying to fix the openafs kernel module to build against 2.6.15-6.8
[09:42] <Riddell> dholbach: see my comment to kamion at 19:27UTC about helping with merges :)
[09:42] <ogra> pitti, oh, i thought it was included there 
[09:42] <torkel> BenC: You have applied a patch (from Joel Becker) that changes WRITEPAGE_ACTIVATE to AOP_WRITEPAGE_ACTIVATE and also changes it from a define to an enum.
[09:42] <pitti> ogra: no, it's just a gstreamer wrapper around libmad
[09:42] <torkel> BenC: What would be the best (correct) way to test if the kernel has WRITEPAGE_ACTIVATE or AOP_WRITEPAGE_ACTIVATE
[09:42] <ogra> ah
[09:42] <torkel> BenC: The patch is not in upstream kernel, so I guess it is wrong to check with #if LINUX_VERSION_CODE >= KERNEL_VERSION(2,6,15)
[09:42] <pitti> ogra: that's the silly thing about it - we could have mp3 support in the last three releases
[09:42] <BenC> torkel: #ifndef WRITEPAGE_ACTIVATE
[09:42] <ogra> heh, just not officially
[09:43] <torkel> BenC: ok. Thanks
[09:43] <BenC> if it's not defined, then use AOP_WRITEPAGE_ACTIVATE
[09:43] <Kamion> pitti: JAIL
[09:43] <pitti> Kamion: not us Europeans, but jdub :)
[09:43] <torkel> BenC: I was not just sure if that was good enough
[09:44] <BenC> torkel: should be
[09:45] <torkel> hopefully it will be enough for openafs upstream too...
[09:47] <BenC> torkel: can you email me info about the patch that changed that? (just the commit sha1, or the subject line the commit description)
[09:47] <BenC> bcollins@ubuntu.com
[09:52] <torkel> mail sent. Looks likes it comes from the OCFS2 tree
[09:53] <elmo> Kamion: have you tried tailor btw?
[09:53] <Kamion> elmo: no, not yet
[09:53] <elmo> Kamion: it may no longer be relevant, but it's quite cool, when it works ;)
[09:53] <Kamion> apparently native bzr support for svn branches is coming RSN
[09:54] <elmo> *snort* bzr in dapper doesn't even have working annotate
[09:55] <lifeless> ?
[09:56] <lifeless> what version is in dapper
[09:56] <pitti> elmo: WFM?
[09:57] <elmo> ii  bzr                    0.6.2-0ubuntu1    
[09:57] <elmo> gives me http://people.ubuntu.com/~james/tmp/bzr.log
[09:57] <pitti> oh, sorry, I use jbailey's daily crask
[09:57] <elmo> lifeless: ^--
[09:57] <elmo> I reported it on #bzr a couple of days ago
[09:58] <lifeless> elmo: bugs really should go in malone
[09:59] <lifeless> but that said...
[09:59] <lifeless> annotate in head works, 0.7 should fix it, and thats not too far off now
[09:59] <elmo> lifeless: duh, I didn't drive by it, I asked if it was known, and mbp said no and he was looking at it
[09:59] <elmo> would have quite happily reported it if told to or if no one had said anything
[09:59] <lifeless> elmo: wasn't accusing you of drive-sorry if it sounded like I was
[10:00] <lifeless> before pissing people of :)
[10:01] <cshields> elmo: hey..  who runs the forums site?  I was talking to sabdfl while he was in portland tuesday and mentioned the OSL would like to help out, he said forums was in a bit of need
[10:02] <Diablo-D3> hrm.
[10:02] <Diablo-D3> I must be on crack
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> I cant find the new version of udev
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> ........
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> oh fuck.
[10:03] <dholbach> good night ubunteros
[10:03] <Diablo-D3> night dholbach 
[10:04] <pitti> night daniel!
[10:04] <elmo> cshields: that'd be Ryan Troy
[10:04] <cshields> elmo: he on irc at all?
[10:05] <\sh> ok listen people...I
[10:05] <cshields> (btw, did we ever get spohr back on to the out-of-band net?)
[10:05] <Diablo-D3> woot
[10:05] <Diablo-D3> 2.6.15 boots for me
[10:05] <\sh> 'm desperate and I need really fast a new job...(!= canonical, sabdfl already has my cv)
[10:05] <elmo> cshields: not much, I don't believe - the three main people are him, john dong and kassetra.  john at least is usually on IRC a lot as 'jdong'
[10:06] <\sh> read the planet and you know all about it...thx
[10:06] <cshields> elmo: k, thx
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> oh grea
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> I spoke too soon
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> it stops at "Starting PCMCIA services"
[10:07] <Diablo-D3> and this box doesnt have pcmcia slots either
[10:08] <Diablo-D3> er, hey guys, which key exits usplash so I can see the console?
[10:08] <Kamion> have you upgraded pcmcia-cs and installed pcmciautils?
[10:08] <xhaker> ctrl + alt + F*
[10:08] <Kamion> because pcmcia-cs should be a no-op now, and I have trouble imagining pcmciautils hanging
[10:08] <\sh> Diablo-D3: #ubuntu 
[10:08] <Diablo-D3> uh
[10:08] <Diablo-D3> Im wondering if my box locked up\
[10:08] <Diablo-D3> I cant change terminals
[10:09] <pitti> good night everybody
[10:09] <ajmitch> certainly possible, try toggling caps lock :)
[10:09] <ajmitch> night pitti 
[10:09] <Diablo-D3> night pitti
[10:09] <Diablo-D3> damn
[10:09] <ajmitch> hi mvo :)
[10:09] <Diablo-D3> ajmitch: heheh, I need to turn the watchdog back on
[10:09] <mvo> hello ajmitch
[10:09] <Diablo-D3> yup locked up
[10:11] <Diablo-D3> is the logs on the console logged anywherere
[10:12] <andrea> hi there, does ubuntu support dual xeon?
[10:15] <neuralis> andrea: that's a question for #ubuntu. this is the ubuntu development channel.
[10:16] <andrea> neuralis: would you please ask someone in #ubuntu to answer?
[10:16] <neuralis> andrea: in short, yes, i wouldn't expect you'd have any problems with it.
[10:17] <andrea> neuralis: thanks. so difficult.
[10:18] <fabbione> hey neuralis 
[10:18] <neuralis> andrea: it's not difficult, but if everyone starts coming into this channel with their quick question, it will become completely useless for development discussion.
[10:18] <neuralis> fabbione: hey!
[10:21] <dsas> has anyone saw mez recently?
[10:21] <fabbione> nope
[10:22] <dholbach> elmo: i tried to upload the changes to gnome-web-photo, but it was rejected - should i just upload it without .orig.tar.gz?
[10:25] <dholbach> elmo: i'll ask tomorrow.. i'm off now
[10:25] <dholbach> *wave*
[10:27] <ogra> mumble mumble .... 
[10:29] <janimo> Kamion, was the gtk d-i deferred after dapper too?
[10:29] <Kamion> janimo: yes
[10:29] <Kamion> we're not working on that ourselves; upstream are working on it and we'll pull stuff in as/when it matures
[10:30] <Nafallo> ogra: word!
[10:30] <Nafallo> ogra: if you find an easy way to build an UPS for 15V, ping me :-)
[10:31] <dsas> fabbione: ok, thanks for letting me know.
[10:31] <ogra> i *have* a 3.5KV UPS here ...
[10:31] <ogra> but my router isnt connected to it ... and the rest of the house isnt either
[10:33] <Keybuk> Nafallo: isn't that just called a "laptop battery" ?
[10:34] <Nafallo> Keybuk: doesn't work for my adsl2+ modem and soon AP though ;-)
[10:34] <Nafallo> ogra: who cares about the rest of the house as long as the laptop have internet? ;-)
 because pcmcia-cs should be a no-op now, and I have trouble imagining pcmciautils hanging
[10:37] <Diablo-D3> well lets see if I have it installed
[10:37] <Diablo-D3> yes, its the newest version.
[10:38] <ogra> Nafallo, 15V ? put a car battery parallel
[10:39] <Diablo-D3> hey Kamion 
[10:39] <Diablo-D3> pcmcia-cs doesnt look like a forwarding metapackage thingy
[10:40] <Nafallo> ogra: hm, good point.
[10:42] <ogra> seems our stove is broken :(
[10:49] <Diablo-D3> so lets see
[10:50] <Diablo-D3> boot, boot, the magical function, the more you something the more you something that rhymes with boot.
[10:50] <Diablo-D3> okay
[10:50] <Diablo-D3> here we go
[10:51] <Diablo-D3> Intel ISA PCIC probe: not found
[10:51] <Diablo-D3> BUG: soft lockup detected on CPU#0!
[10:51] <Diablo-D3> locked up in modprobe, while executing _spin_lock_irqsave
[10:52] <Diablo-D3> so, what do I do now?
[10:56] <dilinger> hrm
[10:56] <dilinger> mjg59: is usplash in breezy smp safe?
[10:57] <dilinger> i'm seeing amd64-k8-smp hang on my dual opteron machine, while amd64-k8 chugs happily along
[10:57] <Diablo-D3> dilinger: where is it locking up?
[10:57] <dilinger> right at the start; it display the ubuntu logo, the little progress bar, and then the machine hangs
[10:58] <dilinger> no progress text, and no progress in the bar
[10:58] <Diablo-D3> apt-get remove usplash and boot with amd64-k8-smp
[10:58] <Diablo-D3> to see if its actually usplash
[11:02] <dilinger> wow
[11:02] <dilinger> that is the most awesome kernel oops i've ever seen
[11:02] <Diablo-D3> what?
[11:02] <dilinger> i killed the quiet and splash args
[11:03] <dilinger> and booted, and it spewed backtraces for a good 60 seconds
[11:03] <Diablo-D3> rotfl
[11:03] <Diablo-D3> good going dilinger 
[11:03] <Diablo-D3> btw, is sound broke for everyone else?
[11:03] <xhaker> it is
[11:04] <Diablo-D3> just making sure
[11:04] <otavio> Hi folks, I just want to notify that I received a REJECT mail from your upload queue ;-)
[11:04] <Diablo-D3> is anyone else having problems with pcmcia hitting the fan?
[11:04] <Diablo-D3> I mean, the bug makes no sense
[11:05] <Diablo-D3> I have no pcmcia hardware
[11:05] <otavio> From: Launchpad Admins <launchpad@lists.canonical.com>                                                                                        
[11:05] <sistpoty> otavio: which package?
[11:05] <otavio> Subject: abntex_0.8.2-1_source.changes REJECTED                                                                                               
[11:05] <otavio> To: Launchpad Admins <launchpad@lists.canonical.com>,                                                                                         
[11:05] <otavio>         Ubuntu Archive Auto-Sync <katie@rockhopper.ubuntu.com>,                                                                               
[11:05] <otavio>         Otavio Salvador <otavio@debian.org>                                                                                                   
[11:05] <otavio> sistpoty: this is the header of mail
[11:05] <elmo> otavio: sorry, that was a mistake
[11:06] <otavio> elmo: no problem
[11:06] <LaserJock> Diablo-D3: I am having the pcmcia problem too
[11:06] <elmo> otavio: we've disabled the MTA and are working to ensure it shouldn't happen again
[11:06] <otavio> elmo: don't worry about, i was just interested to warn about the issue
[11:06] <elmo> otavio: thanks for letting us know
[11:06] <otavio> elmo: you're welcome
[11:08] <otavio> i'm interested to know if trac package is included in ubuntu. If  yes, I'm uploading 0.9.1 to sid and it has a serious security bug fixed
[11:08] <otavio> the issue don't affect 0.8.x versions
[11:09] <elmo>       trac | 0.9-1ubuntu1 | dapper/universe | source, all
[11:09] <otavio> elmo: so, grab 0.9.1 from incoming in some minutes
[11:09] <otavio> elmo: are you interested in a patch for 0.9?
[11:09] <elmo> otavio: once 0.9.1 hits sid, the MOTUs will get notification and our changes will either be merged or we'll just pull 0.9.1 in directly
[11:09] <elmo> otavio: don't worry, thanks, we'll merge your 0.9.1 one way or another
[11:10] <otavio> elmo: ok
[11:11] <ajmitch> otavio: it'll be a quick merge, the only ubuntu change is changing python2.3 to 2.4
[11:12] <otavio> ajmitch: good to know
[11:12] <otavio> ajmitch: i hope we move to python 2.4 in debian asap
[11:13] <Diablo-D3> lol
[11:13] <Diablo-D3> even though its locked up
[11:13] <Diablo-D3> I get event debugging lines
[11:18] <Diablo-D3> grr
[11:18] <Diablo-D3> how can it start pcmcia services if there is no pcmcia stuff installed
[11:20] <HiddenWolf> I guess it has to start it to figure out that there's no pmcia. 
[11:20] <HiddenWolf> Either that, or it's braindead.
[11:20] <Diablo-D3> braindead
[11:20] <Diablo-D3> has to be
[11:26] <ajmitch> elmo: please sync fluidsynth, dropping ubuntu changes
[11:33] <SEJeff> So how bad will dapper break if I reboot right now?
[11:37] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: probably quite bad
[11:38] <SEJeff> I just noticed that linux-restricted-modules postinst fails. I don't think I'll be rebooting anytime soon
[11:38] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: make sure you keep your old working kernel installed
[11:38] <ogra> SEJeff, if you care that everything is up to date (udev, initramfs-tools and module-init-tools) it will be fine
[11:38] <Diablo-D3> ogra: nope, it wont
[11:39] <ogra> Diablo-D3, yes it will 
[11:39] <Diablo-D3> ogra: many people are having issues with pcmcia shit hanging the kernel
[11:39] <Diablo-D3> even if they dont even own pcmcia hardware
[11:39] <SEJeff> This is on a desktop
[11:39] <ogra> Diablo-D3, please stop this
[11:39] <Diablo-D3> stop what?
[11:39] <SEJeff> But kernel module debs failing postinst says that I shouldn't reboot
[11:40] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: unless you require nonfree drivers, the lack of that wont hurt much
[11:40] <Diablo-D3> ogra: um, you do realize I'm not kidding around, right?
[11:40] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: I am running the ATI drivers, but that shouldn't matter
[11:40] <fabbione> good night guys
[11:40] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: yeah, you just wont get X then =P
[11:40] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Try this thing called tact
[11:41] <SEJeff> no x isn't a big deal
[11:41] <Diablo-D3> ogra: pcmcia starting up, even through lack of pcmcia hardware, locks the kernel up
[11:41] <ogra> SEJeff, make sure module-init-tools 3.2.1-0ubuntu3, udev 076-0ubuntu3, initramfs-tools 0.40ubuntu1 are installed and you will be fine
[11:41] <SEJeff> I'm just going from latest update && dist-upgrade
[11:41] <Diablo-D3> ogra: so far I've gotten it on one of my machines, and 2 others have reported it in here as far as I've seen
[11:41] <ogra> Diablo-D3, please stop spreading FUD here
[11:41] <Diablo-D3> ogra: please take your own advice.
[11:42] <Diablo-D3> ogra: just because /you/ arent experiencing it, doesnt mean others arent as well.
[11:42] <ogra> Diablo-D3, i have 8 machines here that boot fine and 3 laptops
[11:42] <Diablo-D3> ogra: thats good for you.
[11:42] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: He is saying you don't need to argue. Chill out man
[11:42] <ogra> Diablo-D3, others are fine too
[11:43] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: no, hes saying I'm lying about tbe bug
[11:43] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Well post a link for us to look at
[11:43] <minghua> to be fair to Diablo-D3, I used to have the same lockup-on-boot problem when pcmcia starts with 2.6.15-4 kernel, I've not tried the recent kernels though
[11:43] <LaserJock> ogra: I have the same problem as Diablo-D3 (the pcmcia one anyway) but ogra is right Diablo-D3, you need to chill a little bit
[11:43] <Diablo-D3> why am I automatically the enemy here?
[11:44] <Diablo-D3> someone asked if booting the newest dapper kernel was a bad idea, and I said yes it was.
[11:44] <LaserJock> because you get hot too fast and you are rude
[11:44] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Because you are acting childish and arguing over something that isn't a big deal like it is
[11:44] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: And your complete lack of this thing we like to call tact
[11:45] <Diablo-D3> I really do get a kick out of you guys.
[11:45] <Diablo-D3> Instead of helping to fix the bug, you argue about it's existance first.
[11:45] <Diablo-D3> Thats pretty backwards imo
[11:45] <LaserJock> anyway, I only get the lock up with the 2.6.15 kernel which, as the topic says, is probably not wise to rely on right now
[11:46] <LaserJock> Diablo-D3: you don't help either by being so rude all the time. It just annoys the people trying to help
[11:46] <minghua> Diablo-D3: complaining on this channel doesn't help fixing the bug either
[11:46] <ogra> LaserJock, are you already on 2.6.15-5 ?
[11:46] <crimsun> there are a number of issues at play here; the kernel and udev are just the highest profile ones
[11:46] <Diablo-D3> minghua: I agree, I'd wish people would just shut up if they aren't willing to help.
[11:47] <LaserJock> ogra: not at the moment. I'm in breezy cause of all the kernel probs in dapper
[11:47] <SEJeff> trulux: ping
[11:48] <ogra>  the -5 kernel should be a relatively safe one already
[11:48] <LaserJock> ogra: well it hard locks when starting the pcmcia stuff
[11:48] <ogra> sure thats -5 ? 
[11:48] <SEJeff> Let me see if I understand this correctly... hotplug is going away in favor of the new sysfs + udev integration?
[11:48] <ogra> yup
[11:48] <LaserJock> ogra: vmlinuz-2.6.15-5-k7
[11:49] <ogra> udev is moving into initramfs
[11:49] <SEJeff> thats alot more flexible
[11:49] <SEJeff> I see why there are problems, thats a very invasive change
[11:49] <ogra> s/moving/moved
[11:49] <ogra> LaserJock, do you still have old pcmcia stuff in place ? 
[11:50] <LaserJock> ogra: I don't have anything pcmcia
[11:50] <ogra> LaserJock, look at your initscripts
[11:50] <LaserJock> ogra: it is in init.d
[11:50] <ogra> which one ? 
[11:50] <ogra> pcmcia or pcmciaurils ? 
[11:50] <LaserJock> both
[11:51] <LaserJock> pcmciautils right ;-)
[11:51] <Diablo-D3> LaserJock: try a dpkg --purge pcmcia-cs
[11:51] <crimsun> SEJeff: currently there's a race condition with the root device not actually being ready when initramfs want to gogogo
[11:51] <thierry_> if I have Icon=/usr/share/pixmaps/zapping/gnome-television.png , I can't put it without the absolute path right?
[11:51] <ogra> pcmciautils should be ok ...
[11:51] <ogra> pcmcia shouldnt be there its useless
[11:52] <SEJeff> crimsun: And I'm guessing it's not quite as easy to fix as sleep 2
[11:52] <LaserJock> ogra: so should I do as Diablo-D3 suggests?
[11:52] <Diablo-D3> btw, I think pcmcia-cs should be replaced with a dummy package that just requires pcmciautils
[11:52] <crimsun> SEJeff: no. keybuk and I just spent two hours on it
[11:52] <ogra> you either might try it or wait 8-9h until Keybuk returns
[11:52] <Diablo-D3> just to get rid of the damn init script
[11:53] <Diablo-D3> Im going to try rebooting yet again, which everything pcmcia confirmed to be gone
[11:53] <crimsun> in the end, though, Dapper has hellafast boots.
[11:53] <Diablo-D3> crimsun: oh yeah
[11:53] <Diablo-D3> crimsun: z00m
[11:53] <LaserJock> alright, I will try it and brb
[11:53] <Diablo-D3> I've seen embedded devices boot slower.
[11:53] <SEJeff> crimsun: What makes it so much faster, kernel, or init scripts?
[11:53] <ogra> LaserJock, also make sure new udev etc are in the initramfs ...
[11:53] <crimsun> SEJeff: udev, kernel, initramfs
[11:53] <Diablo-D3> crimsun: do we have parellel initing yet?
[11:53] <SEJeff> no
[11:54] <ogra> sudo dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.15-5
[11:54] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: That is going to be based off of the LSB spec I believe similar to how fedora has it. You would see it in the init scripts if it was
[11:54] <crimsun> parallel init is kinda pointless with what keybuk and jbailey have done with udev and initramfs
[11:55] <ogra> thats the next step ...
[11:55] <Diablo-D3> crimsun: Im still trying to figure out what they did
[11:55] <SEJeff> How is something that can shave time off of the boot pointless?
[11:55] <Diablo-D3> btw, whats the name of the package that measures boot time again?
[11:55] <SEJeff> My breezy box boots to a gnome desktop in 35 seconds with initng. Even though initng is a bit hackish atm
[11:55] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: bootchart
[11:56] <crimsun> SEJeff: it's not pointless in the long run, but it's pointless right now because udev hasn't even begun to settle down, and udev has already shaved tens of seconds off boot times
[11:56] <Diablo-D3> too bad its written in java =/
[11:56] <Diablo-D3> btw, using gdm over kdm should increase boot time even more, right?
[11:56] <SEJeff> crimsun: I understand.
[11:57] <Diablo-D3> so all I do is add bootchart to the kernel line, right?
[11:58] <SEJeff> http://www.bootchart.org/docs.html
[11:58] <Diablo-D3> ahh okay
[11:59] <ogra> you just install it... it does everything for you
[11:59] <Diablo-D3> ogra: I dont have to add init=/sbin/bootchartd to my grub line?
[11:59] <ogra> it puts the png into /var/log/bootchart
[11:59] <ogra> nope
[11:59] <Diablo-D3> okay!
[12:00] <ogra> it installs in the initramfs ...