=== LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:05] mdke: well it works fine in dapper [12:05] LaserJock, ubuntu docs are not really a target for backporting, so I wouldn't worry abut it [12:06] Burgwork: np, I was just booted into breezy and wanted to see the new stuff [12:17] LaserJock, true === mdke_ [n=matt@81-178-235-116.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:24] mdke_, do you have connection issues or are you at home now? === wjb [n=Warren@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:31] Burgwork, both [12:31] ah [12:31] I am tired and bored of work right now [12:31] i always irc from my home server, so the connection is a bit dodgy [12:32] my wifi keeps going down so I reboot the router and it cuts the connection [12:32] I am glad I live in a country with great bandwidth [12:32] heh [12:32] me too, but I need to take advantage by paying for some [12:32] it's the damn router that is the main problem though === mdke_ kicks [12:32] even the neighbours stolen bandwidth is good [12:33] heh [12:33] all my neighbours have closed APs === wjb [n=Warren@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:33] my neighbours aren't so smart [12:34] :) [12:36] mediawiki 1.6 is going to get a WYSIWYG editor [12:43] moin 1.6 will be able to turn water into wine [12:44] actually that's a bit blasphemous [12:44] moin 1.6 will be able to turn lead into gold [12:44] right [12:44] moin is wonderful is some cases and mediawiki in others [12:44] nah, nah [12:44] that's far too conciliatory [12:44] developers need moin, we need mediawiki [12:44] becuase they target different audiences and make different assumptions [12:44] moin is good stuff [12:45] for developers [12:45] i'm not a developer [12:45] exactly [12:45] and I like moin [12:46] moin makes the assumption that those editing the wiki have another method of communicatin [12:46] an assumption which turns out to be wrong when you are dealing with documentation in Ubuntu [12:46] but perfectly correct for the developers of Ubuntu [12:54] mdke, would you not agree? [12:54] i don't think so [12:55] Burgwork, what do you mean by "another method of communication" [12:55] the talk pages the mediawiki has by default [12:55] and the functionality built around them [12:55] and yes moin can do *some* of that [12:55] I don't know mediawiki, but how does talk pages help for dealing with documentation [12:56] there is a cool thing where you can allow anonymous editing on talk pages but lock the actual article itself [12:56] ah right [12:56] seems sensible [12:57] as well as when you post a note to a users talk page on mediawiki, it tells them about it [12:57] seems sensible too [12:57] moin could have those things, but doesn't [12:57] moin also makes the assumption that content is more important than presentation [12:58] mediawiki assumes they are equal [12:58] again, an assumptoin that works for developers but not for documentation [12:59] a small example of this is the table of contents [12:59] needs to be manually created on moin but not on mediawiki [01:00] these are all bugs in moin IMHO [01:00] yes, but when will they be fixed? [01:00] when someone reports them [01:00] you've done that I suppose [01:00] so, dunno [01:03] mediawiki is not perfect either [01:03] we really need a method of publishing the docs [01:03] ie, two sites [01:04] a wiki on doc.u.c that is editable by all [01:04] mm? [01:04] ah [01:04] and then the finished stuff on help.u.c that is editable by only us [01:04] i've talked this over with henrik quite a bit [01:04] but has a talk page that can be edited by anybody [01:05] he would like that option, but I don't like it much, i'd prefer a wiki on help.u.c editable by all, and stable docs being restricted [01:05] but help is where we drive end users [01:05] we cannot have every joe blow editing them [01:05] by the time a doc hits help.u.c it should be mostly feature complete [01:05] i would have help.u.c with reliable docs [01:06] and help.u.c/wiki with community maintained docs [01:06] ugh [01:06] that is too confusing to the end user, IMHO [01:06] and their should be no seperation between our docs and "community" docs [01:07] s/their/there [01:07] there should only be drafting docs and published docs [01:07] well then you'll need to abolish the docteam repository [01:07] and work only in wiki form [01:07] not really [01:08] but this seperation between online docs and web docs needs to end, in some form [01:08] make that offline docs [01:09] well you'll have to abolish the distinction between online and offline then I guess === Judax [n=troy@adsl-67-67-221-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [01:10] somewhat [01:12] abolish the internet! [01:14] Burgwork, I've uploaded a couple of drawings that me and henrik did when trying to figure out how to implement BetterWikiDocs, you can save them from that wiki page and open the with openoffice [01:15] ok [01:15] feel free to do one yourself === Burgwork is on the phone with a publisher [01:15] ok, --> sleep === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@ppp-69-239-158-143.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mr4005 [n=chatzill@fog.patch.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:06] Hullo? [02:06] Hi [02:08] Setting myself up with the needed software to contribute. The getting started page says get docbook and subversion. There are a lot of docbook pakages shown in aptitude. Which are needed/relevant? Which should be ignored? [02:08] Subversion was easier, the choices are smaller and more decipherable. === wjb [n=Warren@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:09] mr4005: I think xsltproc, docbook-xsl, and docbook-defguide are good to start with [02:10] mr4005: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocBook is where I got that info at. I think that is all I have for docbook stuff [02:10] Ah! xsltproc was not found while searching for docbook. [02:11] << off to read that page more closely [02:11] Thanks, LaserJock [02:12] xsltproc is cool because it allows you to turn your Docbook xml into html [02:19] or docbooks into html pages [02:20] night === mfreeze [n=mfreeze@cpe-024-163-062-205.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Judax [n=troywill@adsl-67-67-221-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wjb [n=Miranda@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wjb [n=Miranda@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wjb [n=Miranda@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@59.92.44.147] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob1 looks in [06:39] hi rob1 [06:39] hi Madpilot [06:40] have you seen my email about CD burning in the Desktop Guide? [06:40] no not yet, evolution is playing funny buggers [06:44] if I'm finding typos and errors in the desktop guide html, should I just start editing, crank out diffs, and send them to the list? === wjb [n=warren@c220-237-178-175.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:56] the html is automatically generated from the xml, but as for the copy on help.u.c go feel free to edit [06:57] yeah, just realized the html isn't actually in the svn - I'll start plugging away at the xml. === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@ppp-69-239-158-143.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has left #ubuntu-doc [] [07:07] OK, I'm confused... what I've got in my svn d/l bears no resemblance to the filenames in use on doc.u.c... [07:07] thats because it isn't the same [07:07] http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch02s03.html <-- where is this file, in the xml versions from svn? === manicka [n=grant@203-217-48-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:07] no that was generated using xsltproc from the xml [07:08] everything under /build is generated when you run the makefile [07:08] (depending on what you want to build) [07:09] ... I think I need to go read some of the DocTeam "how we do things" stuff again, before I look even more clueless :P [07:09] in xml the desktopguide.xml file in that directory is the main file, which only contains xreferences to the other xml files [07:10] right [07:10] xml file layout != generated html layout [07:10] rob1: that's why XML makes my head hurt... [07:10] xml has stylesheets that determine how to break things up [07:11] ah, that Gnomebaker stuff is in common-tasks.xml [07:11] yep [07:14] gah... I know we've got good reason to use XML, but (X)HTML is just so much **easier** [07:14] nah, one you get used to xml its just as easy [07:14] it just has a lot more features that you can use [07:14] when I say xml, I mean docbook xml === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob1 [n=rob@ubuntu/member/rob1] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Judax_ [n=troywill@adsl-67-67-221-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:09] ah, Madpilot, awesome news that you're starting to get into the docs [09:10] rob1, you didn't reply to my 10 thousand emails yesterday :( [09:10] mdke_: right now I'm mostly staring at XML and wondering when my eyes will start bleeding ;) [09:11] Madpilot, aw it's not as bad as all that! [09:11] not quite [09:11] close, though [09:11] you'll get used to it :) [09:12] expect my first few diffs to be total crap :P [09:12] code-wise, that is [09:13] Madpilot, the important thing is to use the validation tool in our repo [09:13] that way you can check that the doc is ok before doing the diff [09:13] Madpilot, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository [09:14] k, thanks - I'll read that tomorrow - I'm just about to crash for the night [09:14] rob1, so what do I do with my working copy of common-tasks.xml [09:14] nuke, or commit? === mdke_ goes to work === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:42] hey guys === Judax_ [n=troywill@67.67.221.178] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Judax_ [n=troywill@adsl-67-67-221-178.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:06] 21:05 < raphink> I upgraded my dapper and now it doesn't recognize my sound card anymore :S [11:06] er [11:06] ... whoops === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-2.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Kamping_Kaiser [n=Kaiser@ppp129-75.lns2.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-2.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=grant@203-217-48-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt_ [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico_ [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mp1 [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mp1 [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt_ [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === artnay [i=jirig@shell.evtek.fi] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz [n=Belutz@ubuntu/member/belutz] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mgalvin [n=mgalvin@host-66-202-95-170.spr.choiceone.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mhz [n=mhz_chil@moinmoin/fan/mhz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:46] hi all [03:47] I see this http://wiki.edubuntu.org/CorporateUbuntu [03:47] and the first line mention 'corporate environment by Naaman Campbell.' [03:48] just to have a clear policy in my head... do we want this 'by author' things? [03:49] no we don't. But we have not yet established the licence policy on the wiki [03:49] so, i dont edit it? [03:49] no [03:49] ok [03:49] in any case, the guide doesn't appear to have been written [03:50] would be ok if i create a CategoryAuthor ? [03:50] ? [03:50] so we can easily get those edited after policy has been up [03:51] ok... [03:52] actually perhaps that is a bad idea [03:52] ? [03:52] we will probably have to give people a chance to remove documents which they are not happy with licensing under a "no attribution" licence policy [03:53] ooooh, good point [03:54] and how do you think we'll inform those people about the wiki policy? [03:54] I have noticed many wiki page creators are not subscribed to pages :D [03:55] i don't know [03:58] ok [04:00] so, I'll make my own subpage listing those pages i have found that include the "by author" thing. once we set the policy, (when?) it'll be a little easier to inform them, at least manually. [04:28] "... setting up Ubuntu for use ... by Naaman Campbell" [04:29] I might want to set up Ubuntu for use by someone else... [04:29] heh [04:29] he [04:31] that doc is on the wrong wiki anyway [04:31] so that's two excuses for nuking the byline [04:32] ? [04:32] mpt, they are the same wiki with a different address, mhz just posted that link because he is an edu kinda guy [04:36] the same wiki with a different address? === mpt 's head hurts [04:36] i mean [04:36] they are sharing /data so we should see same pages [04:36] wiki.edubuntu.org and wiki.ubuntu.com have the same pages [04:37] yes BUT.. [04:37] one is working https and the other only http [04:37] really? [04:37] :( [04:37] how do you authenticate? [04:37] indeed [04:38] I have just found out that I have to login in www.ubuntu.org [04:38] so I get access to all pages [04:39] you mean edubuntu.org [04:39] so, now that I loged in via edubuntu, I can't reach ubuntu pages duh! [04:39] nop. [04:39] www.ubuntu.org isn't computer-related :-) [04:39] quite === mhz will logout to show [04:41] http://www.ubuntu.com/ --> use wiki tab https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ --> then login link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserPreferences [04:42] and now, I can see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CorporateUbuntu [04:43] notice the diff URL but same content [04:43] :) [04:44] however, I had first loged in via www.edubuntu.org, I could have not reached https:// urls [04:44] however, I would have seen same exact contents [04:44] now, the question is... Should we consider that a bug? or just a nonsense way to get contents ? === mdke_ shrugs === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@adsl-69-104-117-247.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ned [n=ned@88-107-100-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@adsl-69-104-117-247.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke hussles rob1 === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has left #ubuntu-doc ["http://mpt.net.nz/"] === mpt [n=mpt@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc === MichaelPDX [n=mikeraz@eye.patch.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zen-afk [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke_ [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke__ [n=matt@81-178-165-226.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dabaR__ [n=dabaR@wnpgmb02dc1-60-48.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke__ [n=matt@81-178-171-44.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:53] how do I get grep to only show me each match once? [10:54] Burgwork: not sure, I would pipe to sort and then uniq but maybe I should read the grep man page [10:55] or is that even what you are looking for ? [10:55] uniq did what I was looking for [10:57] grr, bloody sort [10:57] n3 [10:57] n3129 [10:57] it does stupid crap like that ^ [11:14] I have a couple of questions about the server guide [11:15] In the last paragraph of the preface it talks about using vim as the text editor [11:16] I mentions sudo, but it capitalizes it to "Sudo". That isn't right is it? [11:17] also it says "Its recommended that you also run [11:17] ..." but shouldn't that be "It's" ? [11:23] or I guess it should be "It is" to eliminate the contraction === MichaleR [n=mikeraz@eye.patch.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wazza [n=Miranda@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc