[07:32] <cyphase> hey everyone
[07:44] <ggarcia> hello
[07:29] <melalcoolique> hi
[08:56] <pitti> Hi
[08:57] <ogra> ho
[08:57] <fabbione> hi
[08:57] <JaneW> hi
[08:58] <seb128> Hi
[08:58] <doko> hi
[08:58] <jbailey> hi
[08:59] <ogra> JaneW, you broke it... that should have been an "ho"
[08:59] <ogra> :)
[08:59] <jbailey> Are we dwarves now?
[08:59] <Mithrandir> ho ho ho
[08:59] <ogra> heh
[08:59] <ogra> jbailey, it were at least seven ...
[08:59] <HiddenWolf> Mithrandir is Santa. :)
[09:00] <JaneW> ogra: I am not a ho! :P
[09:00] <Mithrandir> we're almost 30 seconds late now.
[09:00] <ogra> JaneW, oh, sorry ... my german mind ....
[09:00] <jbailey> Late as in the late dentarthurdent?
[09:01] <JaneW> ogra: ;)
[09:01] <ogra> always forget about the several meanings of certain english words
[09:01] <ogra> :)
[09:01] <JaneW> is mdz here?
[09:01] <ogra> he's next door
[09:02] <JaneW> we have appologies from mvo (hockey practise) and infinity (not feeling well) 
[09:02] <JaneW> fabbione was going to belate... but seems to be here...
[09:03] <fabbione> i don't "belate"
[09:03] <fabbione> ok?
[09:03] <fabbione> ;)=
[09:03] <JaneW> sorry - I am tired already...
[09:03] <HiddenWolf> He does have a beard, judging from the smiley. :)
[09:03] <JaneW> (had 5 kids here earlier)
[09:03] <dholbach> fabbione doesn't belate as much as the kernel has no bugs, right fabbione? :)
[09:03] <ogra> :)
[09:03] <mdz> good morning
[09:03] <JaneW> hi mdz
[09:03] <ogra> hey mdz
[09:04] <fabbione> dholbach: right :)
[09:04] <JaneW> we have appologies from mvo (hockey practice) and infinity (not feeling well) 
[09:04] <mdz> is everyone else here?
[09:04] <ogra> we pretend to, yes
[09:04] <jbailey> Just us dwarves. =)
[09:04] <JaneW> I got advance updates from both, so will represent them
[09:04] <ogra> hehe
[09:04] <Keybuk> I'm not.
[09:04] <Keybuk> Kamion isn't back yet?
[09:04] <JaneW> is kamion here?
[09:04] <JaneW> and BenC?
[09:05] <JaneW> I had no word from daniels this week...
[09:05] <mdz> daniels is on holiday this week
[09:05] <mdz> Kamion,seb128,doko,Riddell,BenC: ping
[09:06] <JaneW> seb is here
[09:06] <Riddell> I'm at OSDL just now, will try to keep an eye on this window
[09:06] <JaneW> and doko
[09:06] <seb128> mdz: ping
[09:06] <seb128> ups
[09:06] <seb128> pong
[09:06] <doko> pong
[09:06] <Riddell> daniels is somewhere around, jdub is about to give a talk
[09:07] <Kamion> hello
[09:07] <JaneW> hi Kamion 
[09:07] <ogra> wow
[09:07] <dholbach> Kamion: can we congratulate? :)
[09:07] <ogra> family car ?
[09:07] <janimo> or a kamion?
[09:07] <Kamion> perhaps somewhere where it isn't hideously off-topic ;)
[09:08] <JaneW> are we ready to start?
[09:08] <mdz> missing only BenC
[09:08] <ogra> BenC is still missing ...
[09:08] <mdz> sent him an SMS
[09:08] <ogra> so lets go bottom to top today then :)
[09:08] <mdz> let's start rather than waiting
[09:08] <iwj> start> Yes please :-).
[09:09] <Mithrandir> ogra: community people first, wasn't it?
[09:09] <ogra> heh, yup ...
[09:09] <mdz> by reverse order of first name, then ;-)
[09:09] <mdz> Mithrandir: I think you're first
[09:09] <Kamion> yes, community first, we had problems last week
[09:09] <Kamion> because people couldn't stay around for the whole meeting
[09:09] <JaneW> is sivang, lathiat or krstic here?
[09:09] <ogra> is sivang here ? 
[09:10] <iwj> If they're not here now we can slot them in if they happen to turn up.
[09:10] <dholbach> i pinged lathiat
[09:10] <mdz> Kamion: people who can't stay around for the meeting can send in status updates via email if that's all they want to do
[09:10] <JaneW> those 3 are the only 3 on the list so far, and mjg59...
[09:10] <iwj> They might want to talk about their items.
[09:10] <mdz> we're 1/5th through the meeting and have accomplished nothing so far.  time to get started.
[09:10] <mdz> Mithrandir: go
[09:11] <JaneW> I think we should go on
[09:11] <Mithrandir> openoffice-amd64: no progress
[09:11] <Mithrandir> live-cd-performance: bootchart-udeb uploaded, main inclusion report is written and review asked for, will add to d-i lists once it's in main.  Need to investigate size of bootchart + deps for live seed, we might want that in.
[09:11] <Mithrandir> one-true-path: no progress
[09:11] <Mithrandir> livecd-unionfs: no progress
[09:11] <Mithrandir> media-integrity-check: in the archive, waiting for syslinux boot menu resolution, but looking good.  Might need some template adjustments
[09:11] <Mithrandir> network-authentication: no progress, I've been thinking about how to do it, but nothing solid yet.
[09:11] <Mithrandir> This week: a lot of faff and merges, got dragged into a bunch of d-i stuff when some kbd-chooser breakage was discovered and I spent time cleaning that up, live-cd-performance and media-integrity-check are both looking good and approximately on schedule.
[09:11] <Mithrandir> Next week: some vacation, Fix up the d-i stuff I've been working on (kbd-chooser). Look at getting one-true-path implemented.
[09:11] <Mithrandir> Blockers: media-integrity-check blocked on syslinux menu, but apart from that, nothing
[09:11] <Mithrandir> s/Blockers/Blocked on/
[09:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: livecd-unionfs is approximately blocked on simplified-livecd
[09:12] <Kamion> (the kbd-chooser stuff is needed for ubuntu-express-base-system)
[09:12] <mdz> Mithrandir: it is looking increasingly like I won't have time to do that properly.  how do you feel about taking it on?
[09:12] <Mithrandir> mdz: I haven't read the spec, give me a few minutes to skim it?
[09:13] <mdz> JaneW: Mithrandir and me to discuss simplified-livecd later
[09:13] <mdz> seb128: you're next
[09:13] <JaneW> ok
[09:13] <seb128> menus-revisited: no update this week (todo: oo.o2 to upload)
[09:13] <seb128> rhythmbox-ipod: fixed libgpod according to pitti's comments, got it promoted, updated rhythmbox to the new 0.9.2 using it
[09:13] <seb128> faster-gnome-startup: gconf transition is done/ok
[09:13] <seb128> dapper-desktop-plan: started to look on changes, spoke with desktop team/upstream about some of them.
[09:13] <seb128> video-playback: no update this week (still waiting for gst0.10)
[09:13] <seb128> misc: desktop bug triage, syncs, fixed GNOME packages for firefox1.5, some new GNOME updates/sync with Debian
[09:13] <seb128> next week: dapper-desktop plan, continue the desktop bug triage	
[09:13] <mdz> seb128: what remains for faster-gnome-startup?
[09:14] <seb128> not a lot
[09:14] <mdz> to be finished next week then?
[09:14] <seb128> probably
[09:14] <mdz> ok
[09:14] <mdz> Keybuk: next
[09:14] <Keybuk> udev-roadmap: done, uploaded, the big bugs shaken out.
[09:14] <Keybuk> hardware-activation: beginning, alsa, hdparm and networking to become udev events; ntpdate to become if-up.d script.  those are the most tested and easy to do.
[09:14] <Keybuk> streamlined-boot: planned on my whiteboard, need to dump onto wiki.  mostly moving rcS stuff about a bit and removing some extraneous messages
[09:14] <Keybuk> network-magic: no progress.
[09:14] <Keybuk> misc: one merge remaining (sysvinit, to be done with streamlined-boot).  dpkg conffile handling still to fix.
[09:15] <iwj> Do you want me to `help' with the dpkg conffile thing ?
[09:15] <mdz> Keybuk: remember to get that -devel-announce email out
[09:15] <Keybuk> yup, I'll send that out this evening
[09:15] <mdz> Keybuk: that should go out today; we've already broken things
[09:15] <mdz> ok
[09:16] <Keybuk> iwj: I already have the fix, just need to get around to testing and uploading
[09:16] <mdz> ok
[09:16] <mdz> ogra: next
[09:16] <iwj> OK.  In general feel free to bother me.
[09:16] <ogra> * thin-client-sound: initscript for the client side and package work done locally, spec pending.
[09:16] <ogra> * thin-client-local-devices: no further work yet, spec still in drafting.
[09:16] <ogra> * thin-client-memory-usage: was waiting for the new initramfs/udev/kernel architecture for modlue blacklist testing, spec pending.
[09:16] <ogra> * thin-client-faster-startup: mainly bug hunting in the new initramfs, works fine now, thanks Keybuk, spec pending.
[09:16] <ogra> * gnome-screensaver-default-image: no further work done yet, package ready so far, need images.
[09:16] <ogra> * general: waved in the multiarch-client patch and uploaded bzr branch for mdz inspection. gobby main inclusion report for edubuntu done (looks like we'll get gobby 0.3.0 exclusively for ubuntu according to pkern (upstream and DD)). 
[09:16] <ogra>  last weeks goals: requested changes to ldm done and sent to mdz, thin-client sound initscript done, packge data for ltsp-sound (changes to control and rules file) added (locally not yet online) in bzr, etherboot: mknbi seems not to produce usable images (only tested with breezy yet) needs further investigation (also with the new kernel), liveCD filesystem prepared but waits for ubuntu-desktop/edubuntu-desktop being installable, xscreensaver merge
[09:16] <ogra>  done, selected hacks in xscreensaver-data are working with gnome-screensaver now. mailed gnome-screensaver upstream (will provide a patch for lockscreen), edubuntu ready for flight2 (considering to drop kino from the desktop since video on ltsp clients sucks), all merge bugs done o far, will propose to drop gtk-qt-engines its not supportable for 3 years, upstream works very slow and doesnt fix bugs (not even the ones with patches) it seems, gnome
[09:16] <ogra> -screensaver not in main yet, will wait until after flight 2 and for (#3044).
[09:16] <ogra> * next weeks goals: find out the bugs and fix the Xorg autodetection on thin clients, finish the ltsp sound stuff, fix what mdz sends back to me of my ldm/multiarch stuff, do the xscreensaver hack split for #3044, finally get gnome-screnesaver to main, inspect the mknbi/etherboot problem, get the liveCD ready and test edubuntu fledgling1 (dapper flight 2) live and install, start working on hwdb-client changes, inspect changes that have to be done 
[09:16] <ogra> to edubuntu-artwork for dapper.
[09:17] <mdz> ogra: isn't there a spec associated with gnome-screensaver integration (not the image one)?
[09:18] <ogra> mdz, we decided at ubz that we'll drop it
[09:18] <seb128> ogra: could you use screensaver-list when you mail gnome-screensaver upstream?
[09:18] <ogra> since is a general item thats done every release
[09:18] <ogra> seb128, will do
[09:18] <seb128> cool
[09:18] <mdz> ogra: we who?  please keep it active for tracking purposes
[09:18] <mdz> there are several subsidiary tasks associated with it
[09:18] <ogra> mdz, JaneW, jdub, etc ...
[09:19] <ogra> mdz, the spec was about the lock dialog.... where there was consensus that it just should be reverted upstream
[09:19] <ogra> i.e. look like the breezy one or like it looked before they made changes for us
[09:19] <mdz> JaneW: ogra, me, sbalneav to discuss local devices.  it doesn't look like this is going to make it for dapper
[09:20] <mdz> ogra: I mean the transition from xscreensaver to gnome-screensaver
[09:20] <ogra> mdz, yup ...
[09:20] <JaneW> mdz: erk, ok
[09:20] <mdz> JaneW: it's big and complicated and still not well specified yet
[09:20] <mdz> JaneW: do you have a snippet from mvo?
[09:21] <JaneW> yes 
[09:21] <Kamion> ogra: (alpha CD branding for derivatives typically tracks the real one to avoid hideous confusion on cdimage, so I'd prefer "Edubuntu Flight CD 2")
[09:21] <JaneW> mvo: * the usual dance of mail/bug triage/irc 
[09:21] <JaneW> * upload new apt/python-apt/gdebi + all depenencies (apt abi break)
[09:21] <JaneW> * gdebi is in the archive, that means one bit of the 3rdPartyPackages
[09:21] <JaneW>   spec is implemented (still needs testing)
[09:21] <JaneW>   [Support for packages by third parties in external repos] 
[09:21] <JaneW> * build a package for unattended-upgrades script, not yet integrated
[09:21] <JaneW>   into the APT::Periodic system
[09:21] <JaneW>   [Unattended package upgrades] 
[09:21] <JaneW> * started with the dist-upgrade tool, extended/cleaned up
[09:21] <JaneW>   update-manager (u-m is responsible for detecting new releases and
[09:21] <JaneW>   downloading the actual script)
[09:21] <JaneW>   it detects new releases now, can download/display release notes and 
[09:21] <JaneW>   download/extract the upgrade script tarball (+ cleaning up
[09:21] <JaneW>   afterwards). 
[09:21] <JaneW> * some more bits of python-apt supported where needed for the 
[09:21] <JaneW>   update-manager changes
[09:21] <JaneW> * cmd-not-found magic work with zyga, we have a package now for it, a
[09:22] <JaneW>   (small) patch for bash was submited to make integration smoother
[09:22] <JaneW> * changed language selector to implement the LanguagePackVsSupport
[09:22] <JaneW>   spec (together with pitti)
[09:22] <JaneW> * update-notifier does not start when there is a admin group on the
[09:22] <mdz> JaneW: please ask him to organize by spec name for clarity next time
[09:22] <JaneW>   system but the user is not part of it, implemented my parts of the 
[09:22] <JaneW>   HideAdminTools spec [HideAdminTools] 
[09:22] <JaneW> Will do:
[09:22] <JaneW> * more work on the dist-upgrade tool, the actual dist-upgrade code
[09:22] <JaneW>   comes next
[09:22] <JaneW> * 3rd party packages channel work
[09:22] <JaneW> * integrate unattended upgrades script into the APT::Periodic system
[09:22] <JaneW> mdz: yes agreed
[09:22] <ogra> Kamion, fine with me ... 
[09:23] <mdz> ok, sounds good
[09:23] <mdz> doko: ready?
[09:23] <doko> this week:
[09:23] <doko> - toolchain-roadmap: gcc updates (3.4.5 final, 4.0 in a state allowing KDE to build on hppa), amd64-biarch blocked by glibc
[09:23] <doko> - python-roadmap: python merges, started python-central update
[09:23] <doko> - openoffice.org: started merging / updating to version 2.0.1.
[09:23] <doko> - java-roadmap: merges done by charles, two left.
[09:23] <doko> next week:
[09:23] <doko> - toolchain-roadmap: amd64-biarch, when ready
[09:23] <doko> - python-roadmap: python-central, start converting packages in main, get rid of python2.3 (start it ...)
[09:23] <doko> - openoffice.org: try to build a first package. feedback for gnome-integration needed
[09:23] <Mithrandir> doko: are you doing the ooo-amd64 stuff as well?  It's a fairly easy change, I'd imagine?
[09:24] <pitti> doko: what's the last point about?
[09:24] <mdz> doko: what's python-central?
[09:24] <pitti> doko: build OO.o 2.0.1?
[09:24] <doko> Mithrandir: I can do that, but after the i386 package
[09:24] <seb128> doko: I'll send you a patch for oo.o2/menus-revisited, ping me before doing an upload
[09:24] <doko> mdz: python-central let's us get rid of the pythonX.Y packages
[09:24] <Mithrandir> doko: I can do it if you're busy, but if you could ping me when you have the i386 package ready, that'd be useful?
[09:25] <doko> Mithrandir: yes, I'll ping you, if I have something
[09:25] <doko> pitti: yes
[09:25] <dholbach> seb128: i think gnome integration is more about clipboard functionality, or is that resolved already?
[09:25] <Mithrandir> doko: thanks.
[09:25] <Kamion> pythonX.Y-* that is ...
[09:25] <seb128> dholbach: I don't use oo.o2 and I don't know anything about it, so dunno if they fixed their bugs :)
[09:25] <pitti> that should make it easier to drop python versions in the future?
[09:25] <doko> exactly
[09:25] <mdz> pitti: add and drop, yes
[09:26] <pitti> yay
[09:26] <mdz> pitti: see python-roadmap
[09:26] <dholbach> doko: what feedback for gnome-integration are you looking for?
[09:26] <doko> dholbach: just email to mdz
[09:27] <mdz> hmm?
[09:27] <dholbach> i don't fully understand
[09:27] <seb128> dholbach: clipboard is a fd.o spec btw
[09:27] <dholbach> seb128: that was just one issue i could think of
[09:27] <dholbach> (having read bugs about it :()
[09:27] <seb128> dholbach: I don't know what you are talking about, just replying to your comment about clipboard issue ... 
[09:27] <mdz> Mithrandir: you seem to have 5 merges outstanding; anything blocking those from being completed this week?
[09:28] <Keybuk> Riddell has 17 merges outstanding, 7 of which date to before dapper opened
[09:28] <mdz> doko: likewise for you, 5 merges
[09:28] <ogra> i'm working on kino, will update the bug
[09:28] <doko> mdz: no, two. three are pending
[09:28] <Kamion> I only see one for Mithrandir
[09:28] <Kamion> unless my search is b0rked
[09:28] <mdz> doko: they aren't done until they're in the archive
[09:29] <mdz> Kamion: mailman, sane-backends, xml-crimson, ia32-libs, courier
[09:29] <doko> mdz: syncs are requested
[09:29] <Mithrandir> mdz: no, nothing blocking that.  One of them is a FTBFS when merging (xml-crimson), but the others are easy enough.
[09:29] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok
[09:29] <mdz> mjg59: you here?
[09:29] <Kamion> I'm searching for alias matches ^merge-
[09:29] <mdz> Kamion: I used alias substring "merge-"
[09:29] <pitti> Kamion: I just search for 'Debian', that's usually quite fine
[09:29] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm debian maintainer (or co-maintainer) for mailman and ia32-libs, so those aren't crucial, but I'll get them done anyway.
[09:30] <doko> gjdoc is blocked (FTBFS), will do openoffice-dictionaries after the oo2 packages
[09:30] <mdz> doko: can gjdoc be resolved tomorrow?
[09:30] <doko> Mithrandir: ia32-libs is/should be blocked by amd64 glibc
[09:30] <Kamion> thanks to people for responding to my no doubt incessant nagging about merges
[09:30] <doko> mdz: no, it's a compiler regression, fixed in 4.1
[09:30] <jbailey> doko, Which is a next-week task.  It's in my update when my turn comes. =)
[09:30] <mdz> Kamion: thanks for incessantly nagging
[09:31] <mdz> doko: argh
[09:31] <mdz> doko: please note in bugzilla if you haven't already
[09:31] <doko> mdz: already done
[09:31] <mdz> ok
[09:31] <mdz> pitti: go
[09:31] <pitti> hide-admin-tools-to-users: DONE: design decision was taken, sudo changes reverted; discussed further actions with seb128, who wants to do/coordinate the rest
[09:31] <pitti> belocs-locales: DONE: fully implemented, new glibc, locales, and langpacks are in the archive
[09:31] <pitti> language-pack-vs-support: DONE: mvo implemented langselector changes; PLAN: installer needs string change, then it's complete (something for Kamion, bug is filed)
[09:32] <pitti> automatic-printer-conf: PLAN: much harder than expected in the spec, start upstream discussion about hal support and detecting unconfigured printers
[09:32] <pitti> reducing-duplication: DONE: db4.1, krb4, are in universe, ucs-snmp about to go (if the hppa buildd condescends to build cyrus21-imapd); checked db4.2 removal, it's hard
[09:32] <pitti> gstreamer-audio-backend: BLOCK: gstreamer 0.10 for creating the alsadmixsink
[09:32] <pitti> automated-problem-reports: BLOCK: approval from Keybuk, would appreciate opinions from other people, too (elmo, Kamion, mdz) since this is very intrusive
[09:32] <pitti> merges: DONE: non-blocked merges are finished, remaining ones are stalled by external reasons; BLOCK: tbird l10n packages for tbird 1.5, cdrecord for upstream version regression
[09:32] <pitti> langpacks-desktopfiles: nothing done, no time; PLAN: zyga has some patches, apply and test them; if performance regressions are negigible, upload, else this requires further discussion
[09:32] <mdz> pitti,seb128: hide-admin was not on seb128's list earlier
[09:32] <pitti> rosetta-firefox-support, pmount-uber-alles, firewall: no change since last week
[09:32] <pitti> plan for tomorrow: catch up with the huge amount of main inclusion reports, people start killing me about them
[09:32] <ogra> mdz, it was in breezy ...
[09:32] <mdz> seb128: are you going to take it over?
[09:32] <ogra> SoC afaik ...
[09:32] <pitti> mdz: he wanted to do the rest...
[09:32] <seb128> mdz: there is a small gnome-menus patch to update and desktop files to change than is a 10s job that I can do during normal upload
[09:33] <seb128> s/than/that/
[09:33] <mdz> seb128: ok, just wasn't on your list for next week
[09:33] <pitti> mdz: the spec should be reassigned to seb128 now, maybe?
[09:33] <seb128> yeah, forgot about it
[09:33] <mdz> pitti: yes, ok
[09:33] <mdz> pitti: if launchpad lets you, do it, otherwise bug me
[09:33] <pitti> mdz: and belocs-locales should be mine
[09:33] <pitti> mdz: I can't reassign
[09:33] <mdz> pitti: ok, bug me about that later too
[09:34] <pitti> will do
[09:34] <mdz> pitti: decision has been taken to defer automated-problem-reports
[09:34] <pitti> ok
[09:34] <JaneW> let me know what changes from who to who and I'll do it.
[09:34] <mdz> pitti: if there is a third party interested in working on it as a bounty, great, otherwise it's too much
[09:34] <mdz> pitti: ok, bug JaneW instead :-)
[09:34] <pitti> mdz: right, but it would be nice to approve the spec
[09:35] <mdz> pitti: yes, but we have other priorities right no
[09:35] <mdz> w
[09:35] <pitti> mdz: but without an approved spec we can't even bounty it
[09:35] <mdz> pitti: please note in bugzilla status whiteboard where merges are blocked
[09:35] <pitti> mdz: ok, will do
[09:36] <mdz> Riddell: there?
[09:36] <Riddell> briefly
[09:36] <Riddell> KDE 3.5 packaging and merges and libstdc++ transition and rosetta support
[09:36] <seb128> pitti: is that the spec about getting debug backtraces automagically?
[09:36] <Riddell> next week, finishing all that off especially merges, update seeds, simplify-kde
[09:36] <pitti> seb128: yes
[09:37] <Riddell> also moving kubuntu-express to review seems to have slipped my mind so I'll make sure to remember that
[09:37] <seb128> pitti: grumpf, that would really make bug work easier to get this one done
[09:37] <mdz> Riddell: you have ~16 outstanding merges, need to get those completed ASAP
[09:37] <Riddell> mdz: scheduled foras soon as I get back
[09:37] <mdz> Riddell: there are also unresolved kubuntu-related anastacia items
[09:37] <ogra> or assigned to someone else 
[09:38] <mdz> Riddell: and remember to merge ubuntu->kubuntu seeds
[09:38] <dholbach> Riddell: you want me to help with the merges?
[09:38] <Kamion> mdz: pitti and I have been doing that fairly regularly as part of things we're doing anyway (like getting other stuff out of main, or udev-roadmap, etc.)
[09:38] <pitti> mdz: I merged the seeds today, FYI
[09:38] <Riddell> mdz: amarok is waiting on libarts-akode moving to main
[09:38] <Kamion> (not to say Riddell shouldn't be doing it routinely, but)
[09:39] <Riddell> mdz: the rest are new versions of kdepim libraries
[09:39] <Riddell> merging seedsis included in my "update seeds" items
[09:39] <mdz> Riddell: libarts1-akode | 4:3.5-rc2-0ubuntu1 |        dapper | amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[09:40] <mdz> Riddell: please follow up and see what's happening with it
[09:40] <pitti> Riddell: promoting gstreamer0.8-mad will be hard, since we want to get libmad0 to universe
[09:40] <Riddell> pitti: it won't be needed that's fixed in the new amarok which as mdz suggests I'll see what's happening with
[09:40] <ogra> promoting  gstreamer0.8-mad ???
[09:40] <pitti> ah, ok
[09:40] <mdz> ogra: no
[09:40] <pitti> ogra: anastacia
[09:40] <ogra> phew
[09:40] <mdz> ok
[09:40] <mdz> jbailey: ready?
[09:40] <jbailey> * LocalesThatDontSuck: glibc parts done.  Need to figure out best way to handle locales bug reports.  My guess is forward them to Danis Barbier for now and coordinate a merge monthly or so with pitti.
[09:40] <jbailey> * ToolchainRoadmap: Recovered from last weeks breakage, glibc built everywhere now.  libc6-i386 coming next week for amd64.  LaMont to get back to me whether ia64 wants it, or if they're dropping i386 support.
[09:40] <jbailey> * Other: Need to go through bugzilla and punt anything that's not glibc or lkh related to other people.
[09:40] <pitti> ogra: well, the gstreamer package is *absolutely* harmless
[09:41] <ogra> pitti, still a patented codec ...
[09:41] <mdz> jbailey: is there a glibc merge pending or no?
[09:41] <mdz> jbailey: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19180
[09:41] <jbailey> mdz, Yes.  It will come after all the changes that we're doing.  The changes are blocking other people, the merge isn't.
[09:42] <mdz> jbailey: ok, so just glibc biarch, glibc merge, administrivia and you're clear
[09:42] <jbailey> Yup
[09:42] <mdz> great
[09:42] <mdz> iwj: next
[09:43] <iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: have applied (without trouble) patches from RH to make Firefox use Gnome MIME handling, but these only solve (a fairly small) part of Firefox's MIME problems.  Work will have to continue.  I am currently constructing another interim Firefox release for Dapper development to help with issues found so far.
[09:43] <iwj> AutomatedTesting: Discussion in debian-* seems to have finished.  Have spoken to Robert Collins about wider testing arrangements and am waiting for a straw man design idea from him.  *BLOCKED*  I hope to start implementation next week.
[09:43] <iwj> Launchpad Client Certs (https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/SSLCertificateAuthentication): Proof of concept successful and written up on wiki (with full instructions, example config, etc.).  Nothing more to do from my end (hopefully) except support Launchpad people with development and deployment.
[09:43] <iwj> ThinClientLocalDevices: spec is still in Drafting.  *BLOCKED*
[09:43] <iwj> DeveloperDocumentation: Not started, not blocked.
[09:43] <iwj> Firefox maintenance: See above.  The current package has several problems.  I'm aiming for a new release on Friday (tomorrow) which will have fixes for whatever I can get done by then.
[09:43] <iwj> Others: no more ancient 7.07 gs-esp horror; not seen many problems with gs-gpl and gs-esp 8.15; yay.  Merged mozilla (security fix), no problem.
[09:44] <mdz> iwj: can the firefox patches land in dapper without waiting for further work?
[09:44] <mdz> iwj: it would be good to see how that looks
[09:44] <iwj> Yes.  The RH patch will be in my upload, I hope tomorrow.
[09:44] <mdz> iwj: re: automated testing, are you saying you're blocked on robert?
[09:44] <iwj> You're probably going to be disappointed.  It doesn't change the dialogue or anything; it just changes where it gets the data from.
[09:44] <iwj> Yes, blocked on Robert.
[09:45] <iwj> The RH patch is relatively sane and I'm happy to carry it.  So we'll definitely get at least that far.
[09:45] <mdz> iwj: you have only one merge remaining (mozilla), is it blocked?
[09:45] <iwj> I might try to tart it up to make it a #ifdef for upstream.
[09:45] <iwj> Err, I must have forgotten to close the bug.
[09:45] <iwj> Unless I forgot to upload it too.  I will check.
[09:45] <mdz> using the right apps would be a pretty good start
[09:46] <mdz> for firefox mime
[09:46] <iwj> mdz: Right.  It'll use the Gnome ones _most of the time_ but it's still on crack.
[09:46] <mdz> urgh
[09:46] <mdz> we'll do the best we can with it; if there's a lot of code to be written, it may not be feasible for us
[09:46] <iwj> It uses all of (a) HTTP Content-Type (b) filename extension (c) file contents, in bizarre ways.
[09:47] <mdz> automated testing would take precedence in that case
[09:47] <iwj> Absolutely.  I don't want any giant 50000-line patch nightmare.
[09:47] <mdz> ok
[09:47] <mdz> fabbione: next?
[09:47] <fabbione> yup
[09:47] <fabbione> * server-candy: still waiting for jdub to make the mailing list, otherwise no progress since last week.
[09:47] <fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: made local packages of new ocfs2 tools. need testing.
[09:47] <fabbione> * installer-volume-management: Implemented. There is one (minor corner case) bug that is giving me headacke to fix. Otherwise it ROCKS.
[09:47] <fabbione> * probe-for-root-filesystem: blocked by udev till today (possibly upcoming d-i changes).
[09:47] <fabbione> * boot-from-usb: blocked by probe-for-root-filesystem.
[09:47] <fabbione> * last week: done with my merging, one (zlib) is stalled on some libc6-i386-dev-something.
[09:47] <fabbione> * next week: try to kill the last installer-volume-management bug, cluster love to the tools we already have and server-candy full speed.
[09:48] <mdz> libc6-i386-dev-something?
[09:48] <elmo> fabbione: file the list request in RT, you don't need to wait on jdub
[09:48] <fabbione> mdz: i couldn't remember the exact name of the package, it's the libc6 biarch transition jbailey mentioned before
[09:48] <doko> fabbione: no, just make it libc6-i386-dev | ia32-libs-dev
[09:48] <mdz> fabbione: if you don't get the list by Monday, ping me about it
[09:49] <fabbione> elmo: ah ok!
[09:49] <mdz> fabbione: or better, what elmo said
[09:49] <fabbione> elmo: i wasn't aware of that.
[09:49] <fabbione> elmo: will do asap
[09:49] <fabbione> mdz: thanks. 
[09:49] <fabbione> doko: dude. you told me to wait and i am waiting
[09:49] <doko> fabbione: even better :)
[09:49] <mdz> fabbione,doko: ok, you two can discuss that out of band. we're running short on time
[09:49] <fabbione> ok
[09:49] <fabbione> i am done
[09:50] <jbailey> mdz, doko, fabbione: libc6-dev-i386 for consistancy with other biarch libc6-dev packages.
[09:50] <mdz> thanks fabbione, next daniels
[09:50] <Kamion> vacation
[09:50] <mdz> JaneW: do you have an update from daniels?
[09:50] <mdz> Kamion: yes, this week
[09:50] <JaneW> mdz: nope sorry
[09:50] <Kamion> right
[09:50] <mdz> ok
[09:50] <mdz> dholbach: next
[09:50] <dholbach>  * power-management-preferences: added explanations about the NEW approach, that mjg59, pitti and desrt agreed on, asked pitti and mjg59 to have a look, didn't contact hughsie yet, although he made some notes on the wiki page
[09:50] <dholbach>  * inclusion-of-docs: fixed a couple of bugs with mdke, uploaded the new version, will continue with uploading new versions twice a week, mdke agreed on making the community aware of possibilities in doc proofreading/checking/participating
[09:50] <dholbach>  * bugs-best-practices: added some notes to the Bugs/ pages, community tested them on the last Bug Day and they seem to have "worked"
[09:50] <dholbach>  * a11y-*: apart from the meeting and the new mailing list (thanks jeff), no progress :-(
[09:50] <dholbach>  * this week: huge amounts of bug triage, community stuff (desktop team, motu), std allocator change
[09:50] <dholbach>  * next week: more bug triage (we will get bugzilla clean next week :)), organise a motu review day, tackle DesktopTeam/TODO, more merges? investigate with slomo a bit more on formal-test-plans
[09:51] <mdz> dholbach: is mdke doing the trivial packaging work now?
[09:51] <dholbach> they are focusing on docs
[09:51] <dholbach> i helped to get all the path transitions done and the package out the door
[09:51] <dholbach> it builds and is nice now (apart from having no translations)
[09:51] <mdz> ok
[09:51] <mdz> dholbach: is there work to be done on bugs-best-practices or is it basically done?
[09:52] <dholbach> basically done
[09:52] <mdz> dholbach: you have one merge open in bugzilla; is it blocked?
[09:52] <mdz> gtkmm2.4
[09:52] <dholbach> yeah, i'll do that one
[09:52] <mdz> ok, this week please
[09:52] <dholbach> right
[09:52] <mdz> thanks
[09:52] <mdz> Kamion: next
[09:52] <Kamion> ue-partitioning-tool: Finished and uploaded first cut at partman.deb, which shockingly seems to almost work if you know how to drive it.
[09:52] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-*, ue-*: niemeyer and I sorted out last week's svn2bzr bug, so I nearly have a working import; just waiting for Guadalinex to actually make their dump sufficiently up-to-date now (pinged them again today). No other progress.
[09:53] <Kamion> cd-bootloader: Reviewed gfxboot patch; found it hideous and infeasible to port to 3.11 myself. Talked to SuSE folks about getting a gfxboot patch for syslinux 3.11; I have this in my hands now and it's much better and doesn't break text mode at least, but I haven't quite had time to set up a graphical mode yet.
[09:53] <Kamion> cd-build-process: No progress (nothing urgent left here).
[09:53] <Kamion> misc: Finished my merges. Lots of work on the big move to 2.6.15, which has consumed a big fraction of my time this week. I have a working installer nearly ready to go now; the live CD will take a little longer to get working again since we're now using initramfs in d-i. Minor bug-fixes to pcmciautils, which I packaged week-before-last.
[09:53] <Kamion> next-week: Finish move of installer and live CD to 2.6.15; upload gfxboot and get it enabled by default; try to glue debconffilter onto the front of partman (this is pretty much a torture test of whether our UE implementation plans will work); prod Guadalinex until we can finally get the UE bzr import done and move on; archive-copier changes for language-pack-vs-support. With any luck, Flight CD 2 next Thursday or so.
[09:53] <mdz> Kamion: the live CD is about to get a shakeup anyway (and need to be built differently)
[09:54] <mdz> JaneW: Kamion should be in on the chat with Mithrandir and myself about that
[09:54] <Kamion> right, but I need to make this one work for Flight CD 2
[09:54] <mdz> right
[09:54] <doko> Kamion: I'm not sure I have OOo2 installable next Thursday
[09:54] <Kamion> incremental development and all that
[09:54] <Kamion> doko: what's wrong?
[09:55] <mdz> not building on all architectures perhaps?
[09:55] <doko> Kamion: I would have to rebuild the current beta packages, that would be possible
[09:55] <Kamion> please prioritise that if possible; we need an installable system on a regular basis
[09:55] <mdz> agreed
[09:55] <mdz> need to move on
[09:55] <mdz> BenC: you're up
[09:55] <BenC> * DONE: Get 2.6.15 as main kernel (this has been the bulk of my work)
[09:55] <BenC> * specs done: initramfs-updates, implemented kernel side to use update-initramfs script
[09:55] <BenC> * specs dependent on 2.6.15 kernel: ubuntu-server-kernel, testing-server-hardware, preventing-hardware-regressions, udev-roadmap
[09:55] <BenC> * goals for next week: ubuntu-server-kernel, and start of preventing-hardware-regressions framework
[09:55] <ogra> edubuntu doesnt even have a working livefs yet, would be nice to get it done by flight2
[09:56] <Kamion> ogra: similarly blocked, I imagine
[09:56] <doko> Kamion: ok, I'll probably delay python-roadmap in favour of OOo2
[09:56] <mdz> BenC: you have two outstanding merges, is there anything blocking them from getting done this week?
[09:56] <ogra> Kamion, but you already had fight 1 
[09:56] <BenC> what merges?
[09:56] <ogra> i skipped that one
[09:56] <ogra> +l
[09:56] <mdz> BenC: kernel-wedge and kernel-package, assigned to you in bugzilla for some time
[09:57] <fabbione> mdz: we might not merge them at all
[09:57] <mdz> BenC: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19041 http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19217
[09:57] <BenC> I didn't know anything about it, so no
[09:57] <BenC> but I can get on them this week, no problem
[09:57] <mdz> ok, at both of the last meetings we've talked about the need to finish off merges
[09:57] <mdz> needs to get done this week
[09:58] <mdz> fabbione: you and BenC can work that out and let me know if there is a reason not to do it
[09:58] <BenC> should be easy enough
[09:58] <mdz> ok,
[09:58] <mdz> JaneW: update from adam?
[09:58] <fabbione> mdz: yup. it slept from my sight
[09:58] <ogra> mdz, no chmj ?
[09:58] <JaneW> yes
[09:58] <JaneW> infinity: * last week: lost of work on linux-restricted-modules updating / fixing,
[09:58] <JaneW> and getting to work with new kernels; sorting patches for a big PHP
[09:58] <JaneW> security rollup (nothing big about the individual bugs, just that we
[09:58] <JaneW> have enough piled up to do a bit release now); general buildd, merge,
[09:58] <JaneW> and bugfix work.
[09:58] <JaneW> * uplash/initramfs-*: Scott has released his lock on initramfs, so all
[09:58] <JaneW> of these things will head into full-tilt next week.  Expect to see
[09:59] <JaneW> progress on all but (maybe) thin client usplash (that will likely be the
[09:59] <JaneW> week after -- ogra, talk to me about this, the spec itself doesn't even
[09:59] <JaneW> exist yet, and we should draft one).
[09:59] <JaneW> * my outstanding merges: portmap was taken by Mithrandir,
[09:59] <JaneW> initramfs-tools is currently heavily forked from Debian, and may not be
[09:59] <JaneW> "merged", so much as cherry-picked to and from, mozilla-thunderbird is
[09:59] <JaneW> waiting on my talking with the Debian maintainer about packaging Tbird
[09:59] <JaneW> 1.5 ASAP, php5 will be re-merged with the set of security uploads
[09:59] <JaneW> mentioned above, enigmail is waiting on the thunderbird 1.5 decision.
[09:59] <JaneW> Feel free to fire up MOM again, as those (except portmap) are all (in my
[09:59] <JaneW> mind) false positives for "outstanding". :)
[10:00] <ogra> i wonder what we should spec about usplash on thin clients ? its only turning on the splash flag on the kernel commandline 
[10:00] <mdz> ogra: chmj is not present
[10:00] <ogra> no special needs
[10:00] <ogra> mdz, i see
[10:00] <mdz> ogra: agreed, just turn it on and see if it works
[10:00] <ogra> it does
[10:00] <ogra> using it since two weeks here
[10:01] <ogra> had timeout probs tht were solved with new initramfs
[10:01] <mdz> ogra: if it works, let's just turn it on
[10:01] <mdz> ok, we're out of time
[10:01] <mdz> if there's anything else to discuss, mail JaneW to get it on the agenda for the next meeting
[10:01] <Keybuk> should we turn mom back on yet, or leave it off until next week?
[10:01] <mdz> we need to start on time next week
[10:01] <ogra> mdz, its on in my ldm branch ...
[10:02] <mdz> Keybuk: leave off until remaining merges are complete
[10:02] <Keybuk> ok
[10:02] <mdz> ogra: ok, I'll get to that next week most likely
[10:02] <mdz> thanks, everyone
[10:02] <ogra> fine :)
[10:02] <dholbach> thanks matt
[10:02] <fabbione> thanks
[10:02] <JaneW> I will try to get the rport out during tomorrow, please update your estimates of time etc
[10:02] <ogra> thanks mdz 
[10:02] <seb128> thank you
[10:02] <doko> see you tomorow
[10:02] <pitti> thanks
[10:02] <iwj> Goodnight all.  Pub for me now :-).
[10:02] <pitti> iwj: enjoy
[10:02] <dholbach> good night guys, i'm off too
[10:02] <Mithrandir> mdz, Kamion: should we do the live cd discussion now, or are you busy?
[10:02] <pitti> good night
[10:02] <Kamion> now is kind of bad for me
[10:02] <Kamion> tomorrow evening maybe?
[10:03] <JaneW> next week's meeting is at 02:00... *shudder*
[10:03] <Mithrandir> that's terrible for me.
[10:03] <Kamion> hm
[10:03] <Keybuk> (admin note: they're having another go at fixing my phone line tomorrow, so I'll be around very early in the morning and evening but not most of the day [i'll be working though and contactable on my mobile in emergencies] )
[10:03] <ajmitch> JaneW: 02:00 UTC?
[10:03] <JaneW> ajmitch: uh huh!
[10:03] <Kamion> well, I think https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimplifiedLiveCD is reasonably complete; specific questions on that?
[10:03] <ajmitch> JaneW: oh that's a good time for me, except I'm not on the list of people ;)
[10:03] <JaneW> so 18 hours before this one was, not several hours after...
[10:03] <mdz> Kamion,Mithrandir: this evening, tomorrow morning, or tomorrow evening (UTC)
[10:04] <JaneW> ajmitch: get on it, because you'll be the only person awake ;)
[10:04] <Mithrandir> Kamion: tomorrow morning works for me, I'm booked tomorrow evening.
[10:04] <Kamion> how about tomorrow morning then, that would suck less
[10:04] <Mithrandir> s/Kamion/mdz/
[10:04] <Mithrandir> what time?
[10:04] <mdz> Kamion: one interesting aspect of SimplifiedLiveCD is that usplash ends up being a build-dep for creating the initramfs
[10:04] <ajmitch> JaneW: it'd require spec approvals & some work from me, though
[10:04] <Kamion> 9amish?
[10:04] <Mithrandir> 0900 UTC sounds great for me.
[10:04] <mdz> Kamion: which will regenerate the initramfs for the build system when it's installed (fun!)
[10:05] <mdz> it'd have to be earlier for me; I can't do 0100 tonight
[10:05] <mdz> maybe the two of you should go on without me
[10:05] <Kamion> I'd like to have you there; I didn't know about the usplash issue for example
[10:05] <Kamion> 0800, at a push?
[10:05] <mdz> yeah, I have that spec pretty straight in my head
[10:06] <Mithrandir> 0800 works for me.
[10:06] <mdz> how about Mithrandir and I talk now about the spec, and you and Mithrandir later about the infrastructure changes
[10:06] <Mithrandir> sounds good
[10:06] <mdz> tomorrow is not great for me anyway; I have a lot to do before getting on a plane at 1500
[10:06] <JaneW> where can I find Breezy installer screenshots?
[10:07] <mdz> Kamion: work for you?
[10:07] <mdz> JaneW: osdir, probably
[10:07] <Kamion> ok, I can hang around here for another five minutes
[10:07] <ogra> JaneW, osdir
[10:07] <mdz> or is it osnews
[10:07] <ogra> nope
[10:07] <JaneW> I have ppl telling me the installer sucks, based on warty experience...
[10:07] <Kamion> Mithrandir: let's make it 0900 tomorrow then
[10:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure.
[10:07] <JaneW> no osdir seems to only have boot screen and onwards...
[10:08] <mdz> Mithrandir: so my basic thought was that casper would build an initramfs at build time and include it in a .deb along with a tool which would accept a filesystem as input and output a live .iso
[10:08] <Mithrandir> mdz: would we want to change how the live image itself is generated too?
[10:09] <mdz> Mithrandir: I don't think so
[10:09] <mdz> one of the goals for casper has always been to be liberal in what it will accept as a filesystem
[10:09] <Mithrandir> mdz: apparently, syslinux supports initramfs components, so we don't have to build a full initramfs.
[10:09] <Kamion> (as of syslinux 3.05)
[10:09] <Mithrandir> we can just piece it together from a bunch of initramfs modules.
[10:09] <mdz> Mithrandir: oh, that sounds relatively nice
[10:10] <mdz> so usplash would produce an initramfs piece?
[10:10] <Mithrandir> yes.
[10:10] <mdz> would be a bit awkward for usplash to implement both the mkinitramfs scheme and this one
[10:10] <Kamion> that could be just shipped in usplash.deb then
[10:10] <Mithrandir> Colin didn't think it supported globbing, but if we could have that, just having something like initrd=initrd/*.cpio or something like that would be cool
[10:11] <Mithrandir> I'm thinking that we could reuse as much as possible of our regular initramfs components.  The pieces which would have to be changed or replaced is the "mount /", stage.
[10:12] <mdz> the only tricky bit is the cdrom-detect piece
[10:12] <mdz> whether we can usefully use cdrom-detect, or if we need to reimplement the (admittedly small) bit that we actually need
[10:12] <Mithrandir> it's fairly easy to reimplement, isn't it?
[10:12] <mdz> yes
[10:12] <mdz> in fact I think I did it already
[10:13] <Mithrandir> hmm, we can't do the keyboard layout from gdm since we don't have a gdm login session.
[10:13] <Kamion> I'm inclined to say the relevant bit of cdrom-detect is too small to bother, really
[10:13] <mdz> yes, I did
[10:13] <Mithrandir> I wonder if we should pop up a "please configure your live cd" thingy.
[10:13] <mdz> in fact I got as far as building an initramfs and trying to test it with qemu
[10:13] <Mithrandir> do you have that code somewhere?
[10:13] <mdz> and discovering that the nice "just use this kernel and initrd" shim doesn't seem to work right
[10:13] <mdz> yeah, will mail it to you
[10:13] <Mithrandir> thanks
[10:14] <Mithrandir> maybe we could use oem-config for the "please configure those pieces"?
[10:14] <Mithrandir> like, country, keyboard layout.
[10:14] <mdz> the ui? or the debconf infrastructure?
[10:15] <Mithrandir> both, I think.
[10:15] <Kamion> I think the plan was to move language into syslinux gfxboot, and make country/keyboard easy to change once you get the live CD up
[10:15] <mdz> we honestly want to get rid of the UI altogether for livecd purposes
[10:15] <Kamion> I'd really rather not have oem-config in there personally
[10:15] <mdz> Kamion: right
[10:15] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ook, that'd make sense.
[10:15] <mdz> at most we might add a desktop shortcut to reconfigure the keyboard or such
[10:16] <Mithrandir> I would just hate to have a cd where you booted and it gave you en_US language and keyboard without any explanation on how to change that.
[10:16] <mdz> the boot should be non-interactive unless the user interrupts it (to use the syslinux menu)
[10:16] <mdz> syslinux should display a menu, but have a timeout which basically does that
[10:16] <Mithrandir> mdz: I was thinking thingy running when you were auto-logged in.
[10:16] <Mithrandir> yup, that's a good way to do it.
[10:16] <Mithrandir> once we have that in
[10:17] <mdz> we could even do this with the existing isolinux, maybe, though it would require typing the name of the language
[10:17] <Kamion> yeah, would suck too badly with the existing isolinux though IMHO
[10:17] <mdz> anyway we'll aim for something approximately like what morphix did
[10:17] <Mithrandir> yeah, that's fine
[10:18] <mdz> but we can maybe even get away with what knoppix does
[10:18] <Kamion> in fact you can *already* do it with the existing isolinux if you know what to type ...
[10:18] <mdz> as a fallback
[10:18] <mdz> Kamion: heh
[10:18] <Mithrandir> I haven't looked at knoppix in years.
[10:18] <mdz> knoppix basically uses "knoppix lang=XX" last I checked
[10:18] <mdz> and has an EN-default ISO and a DE-default ISO
[10:18] <Kamion> no separate ISOs :P
[10:18] <Mithrandir> that sucks, since = isn't on the same place on en_US as nb_NO keyboards (for instance)
[10:18] <mdz> not for us, no
[10:19] <mdz> unless locoteams want to build, test and distribute them
[10:19] <Kamion> Mithrandir: it's fine if you don't actually have to *type* the =
[10:19] <mdz> Mithrandir: the BIOS should handle that, no
[10:19] <mdz> ?
[10:19] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, then it's fine.
[10:19] <Kamion> if you only need to select the language from a menu and it fills it in for you, that's fine
[10:19] <Kamion> mdz: no, syslinux has a keymap
[10:19] <mdz> oh UGH
[10:19] <Mithrandir> mdz: how would it?  It does on sparc, but not on any other machines.
[10:19] <Mithrandir> possibly Macs do it, I'm not sure.
[10:19] <Kamion> I think if that were trivial to avoid, it would already have been avoided
[10:19] <mdz> I thought there were bootstrap BIOS keyboard routines which gave you a character
[10:20] <Mithrandir> mdz: they default to en_US, since you can't probe keyboard layout
[10:20] <mdz> anyway, it sounds like we're more or less on the same page about the implementation
[10:20] <Mithrandir> yes
[10:20] <mdz> simple simple simple
[10:20] <mdz> it should be a very thin layer on our existing initramfs, udev, etc.
[10:21] <mdz> one unfortunate bit is that the casper pre.d and post.d scripts are debconfish
[10:21] <mdz> otherwise they could be reused verbatim
[10:21] <Mithrandir> I won't be able to look at it until I'm back from vacation, which is in a week.
[10:21] <Kamion> I still think sticking a trivial cdebconf in there (with hardly any templates) would be easy enough
[10:21] <Mithrandir> so don't expect any immediate progress.
[10:21] <Kamion> it's not much to bring up, and keeps nice features like preseeding
[10:21] <Mithrandir> Kamion: initramfs cdebconf? ;-)
[10:21] <Kamion> sure
[10:22] <Kamion> it only needs to use the none frontend, and basically just be a noninteractive database
[10:22] <Mithrandir> mhm
[10:22] <mdz> ok, I'm happy for you two to work out the best way to accomplish that
[10:22] <mdz> but if we need to fork the casper scripts in the name of simplicity, we can do that
[10:22] <mdz> we don't need to cling to sharing the code if we can retire the old way
[10:23] <mdz> I don't think they actually pass any data between the scripts using debconf, just use it to allow preseeding basically
[10:23] <mdz> which is pretty easy to implement using environment variables instead
[10:23] <Mithrandir> I was more thinking of just forking off from the current casper to be free from that.
[10:24] <mdz> Mithrandir: me too
[10:24] <mdz> the smaller our code base, the fewer bugs it is likely to have
[10:24] <Mithrandir> yup
[10:24] <mdz> if we'd had syslinux menus and usplash, I'd've done it this way from the start
[10:25] <Mithrandir> anything else we need to cover?
[10:25] <mdz> anything else we should discuss now?
[10:25] <mdz> Kamion: thanks for sticking around
[10:25] <Kamion> np, gone now :)
[10:25] <mdz> thanks Mithrandir