[12:03] okay [12:03] got your bootchart ? [12:03] 2.6.15-5 boots with pcmcia-cs and pcmciautils --purged [12:04] took 45 seconds to boot. [12:04] but this is with apache2 and mysql included [12:05] dilinger: Uhm. As far as I know... [12:05] Diablo-D3: Could you post your bootchart? [12:05] uh sure [12:05] actually [12:05] I wanna do another one === jinty [n=jinty@205.134.224.215] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === Diablo-D3 disabled a few things he isnt using [12:06] Diablo-D3: awesome, thanks [12:07] mjg59: ok, turns out to be some framebuffer or other display thing, i think [12:07] Ill do it after I get back from dinner [12:08] ok === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:08] LaserJock, so ? [12:08] ok, back [12:08] I had to get rid of pcmciautils also [12:09] but you are on 2.6.15-5 now ? [12:09] yep [12:09] yay [12:09] but I had to get rid of ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-minimal. oh well [12:10] but sound and nvidia now work so that is cool too [12:12] so I don't know what is the problem with pcmcia and the 2.6.15 kernel but since I don't have any pcmcia I'm doing better than 2.6.12 right now === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-084-059-077-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-83-8.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger [n=hunger@p54A62815.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === camilotelles [n=Camilo@20132194128.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:42] fabbione: why do you want to assign server-candy to a team rather than to yourself? [12:42] fabbione: it makes the summary displays in launchpad less useful === mpt [n=mpt@201-27-71-186.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ptlo [n=senko@83-131-68-234.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hawke_ [n=hawke@208.255.6.238] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:06] ptlo: hey [01:06] heya neuralis :) [01:06] whassup [01:07] Before I file a bug for lsb-release, has its behaviour changed intentionally recently? [01:07] ptlo: finally working on the community server testing spec, will try to get it in line with mdz's wishes [01:08] neuralis: that's nice, hope you won't have to do many changes to the initial drafts [01:09] ptlo: the initial drafts essentially don't at all deal with what mdz had in mind ;) [01:10] then good luck with the rewrite :) [01:14] ahh [01:15] food is a wondeful thing === wazza [n=Miranda@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Diablo-D3 had an ansi standard pizza. [01:24] LaserJock: there really isnt a difference [01:24] LaserJock: pcmcia kernel modules and the userland stuff are two halves of the same thing [01:25] LaserJock: ie, one breaks, it all breaks =P === currios [n=currios@e176038038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Diablo-D3 reboots for great justice [01:30] LOL! [01:30] great usplash! [01:32] okay [01:32] 45 seconds === Diablo-D3 launches all zig [01:34] ptlo: for dapper+1, someone should write a M^7 spec. multiple mdzs mingling merrily 'mong mere mortals. [01:34] ptlo: this would solve all of our BOF issues. [01:34] http://shadowconflict.com/dapper-20051201-2.png [01:34] SEJeff: there. [01:36] neuralis: hahahahah :)) [01:36] good job on the bacronym :) [01:37] neuralis: lol [01:37] neuralis, we used to plot doing that in the Mozilla Project too [01:37] Cloning Dave Hyatt and Blake Ross [01:37] is dave hyatt related to the one that works for apple? [01:38] he is the one [01:38] ahh, I've met him on irc [01:38] hes cool [01:38] he is a firefox hater now iirc [01:38] and he likes my blog <3 [01:38] He's the god of Web browsers [01:38] He worked on Netscape 4 [01:38] and started Firefox [01:38] and started Camino [01:38] and now works on Safari [01:39] I moved the image [01:39] oh yeah, and worked on the Mozilla suite [01:39] and invented XUL [01:39] and XBL [01:39] http://shadowconflict.com/blog/dapper-20051201-2.png [01:39] fear my awesome fast machine! [01:39] tseng: interesting, he had his fingers in creating it. what happened? [01:39] neuralis: he realized khtml rocks. [01:40] Diablo-D3: sorry, I was away, what did you mean about the pcmcia stuff? [01:40] neuralis: he decided KHTML is a good idea [01:40] (pass the pipe) [01:40] LaserJock: you said you didnt know which was causing the problem [01:40] LaserJock: and I said it really didnt matter [01:40] something needs a smackdown! woopah! [01:41] Diablo-D3: hmm, ok, I just noticed that removing just pcmcia didn't work. I had to remove pcmcia-utils also [01:41] LaserJock: yeah [01:41] I had to dpkg --purge pcmcia-cs pcmciautils to make it work [01:41] other than the sound being broke, everything seems to be working [01:42] really, sound works for me now too [01:42] er, it does? === Diablo-D3 checks [01:42] tseng: weird. drugs are bad. [01:42] oh [01:42] bah [01:42] I agree [01:42] sound works === Diablo-D3 listens to music! === jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jlj [n=agp@207.67.194.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.38] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.111.215.11] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:01] yo jdub i'm at the conference now [02:02] conference? [02:02] jsgotangco: great, how is it? [02:02] when is your talk? [02:02] Diablo-D3, linux desktop conference in seoul [02:02] ajmitch, in an hour [02:03] nervous yet? :) [02:04] jsgotangco: ahh, cool === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:05] ajmitch, not really [02:05] i had to talk to the translator today [02:05] poor jdub he really missed a lot [02:06] the wireless is shitty though [02:06] as bad as UDU? [02:06] pretty much [02:06] ouch [02:07] its terribly cold though === McFergus [n=frg@85-18-14-13.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lambert [n=todd@c-24-125-47-253.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:08] great im going to present in a windows laptop for a linux desktop conference [02:09] you don't have a cd on hand? === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:28] it seems like backports is quickly expanding from "apps that lots of users want" to "any and all packages that build on breezy" === rHLfuwf [n=rHLfuwf@70.89.208.241] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:38] something is extremely messed up with gpg right now [02:38] sebastien's key is seriously messed up === seth_k|lappy [n=seth@d-ip-129-15-215-140.wireless.ou.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === wazza [n=Miranda@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:43] all of his normal signatures have expired and he has a tonne of new signatures from himself and from some other person who shares a similar key id (seb=A2D7D292 them=A2D70910) and whose key corrupted my gpg keyring as a result of downloading it [02:43] rHLfuwf is a bot. [02:43] "ircdig.com spider" [02:46] http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=seb128&op=vindex [02:49] i wonder if his key got 0wned? [02:49] Diablo-D3: Thanks, I was out for a bit [02:50] Diablo-D3: Are you hosting that domain on dialup? It's super slow ;-P === bmonty [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:53] desrt: yeah whats with the dozens of selfsigs [02:54] tseng; i just refreshed his key (last refresh was maybe a week ago) and it was like "22 new sigs" [02:54] tseng; +notice that all of his legit sigs have expired [02:54] sig 3 X 44779E18 2004-04-10 Fabio M. Di Nitto [02:54] sig 3 X 91CFA34D 2004-08-16 James Henstridge [02:54] etc [02:55] ok. not all of them, but many of them. [02:56] something bad is happening [02:57] ubuntu's keyserver, pgp.net keyservers and my gpg are all in agreement about this much :) === ikuyaLoqu [n=ikuya@gnulinux.good-day.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:03] desrt: I'll look at fixing up the code of conduct validation code today, so you don't need to remove your tinfoil hat [03:03] jamesh; thanks :D [03:04] jamesh; any reason why your signature on sebastien's key has expired? [03:04] (along with a bunch of other people) [03:04] desrt: no idea === SloMoSnail [n=slomo@p5487FAE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === desrt is becoming extremely concerned [03:05] desrt: maybe his key was marked to expire then? [03:05] jamesh; no. only some of the signatures have expired [03:05] and it's the sigs themselves... not the key [03:06] desrt: when you sign a key with an expiry date, it asks you if you want the signature to expire when the key expires [03:06] desrt: but I've got no idea. === calc [n=ccheney@ip70-185-4-246.ma.dl.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:07] jamesh; i'm going to try and find out. this is rather disturbing since my gpg is supposed to independently verify that the signature you've made on his key is valid and it seems to not be doing so [03:10] desrt: maybe the key has been modified, so the signatures are invalid === desrt scratches head [03:11] but then the fingerprint wouldn't be the same, one would think [03:11] and therefore all signatures would break [03:14] type this: [03:14] gpg --recv-key CA57AD7C [03:14] tell me what happens [03:16] desrt, gpg: key CA57AD7C: public key "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" imported [03:16] desrt, worked fine [03:16] no errors about invalid packet sizes? [03:17] desrt, buffer shorter than subpacket. I got that 9 times [03:17] that's what i mean [03:17] this key has signed behdad's key with 22 expired signatures [03:17] that are dated 2005-01 through 2005-08 but all appeared just now [03:18] seems to be related to sebastien's problems [03:18] maybe a bad sign script just corrupted his key [03:19] doesnt make sense it would sign *itself* repeatedly though [03:19] even if both behdad and seb128's keys were 0wned, the keyservers shouldn't accept key uploads that cause my gpg to spew error messages when i use them [03:20] maybe a bad server replicated bad info throughout the system [03:20] Arrogance; even if that was the case, my gpg should independently verify the validity of the information and now show it to me if it's not true [03:20] so unless fabio, james, etc all had their keys stolen..... === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:22] ie: it shouldn't accept that seb's key is signed by someone just because the keyserver says so... it should actually verify the signature for itself === stub [i=stub@sweep.bur.st] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:25] desrt: are you using --list-sig or --check-sig? === brendan_ [n=brendan@pool-64-222-148-64.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:25] list-sig [03:25] i didn't know of the difference, thanks. [03:25] desrt: list-sig does not verify signatures [03:26] it should show my signature on seb's key as valid (but expired) [03:26] I don't know why it has expired [03:26] k. here's a neat question [03:27] when the signature is stored on a signed key, what is stored with it to match it to the signing key [03:27] the 32bit ID, the full fingerprint? [03:27] fingerprint [03:27] can i get that in the check/list-sig output? [03:28] or maybe just the 64 bit key id [03:29] use --with-colons [03:29] ok [03:29] now i'm very suspicious indeed :) [03:29] sig:?::17:431A3CEDA2D70910:2004-11-21:::::13x: [03:29] sig:!::17:431A3CEDA2D7D292:2004-11-21::::Sebastien Bacher :13x: [03:29] exactly the same 64bit key id except for the last 2 bytes [03:30] but, of course... since the signature doesn't contain the public key of the signing party there is no way to look at a signature and say "this is legit" [03:31] (without also having the key that claimed to create the signature) [03:31] which means that you are able to attach bogus signatures to people's keys with arbitrary key IDs, trivially [03:34] so the mysterious 431A3CEDA2D70910 signatures are probably a case of this...... which would also explain why no such key exists on the servers [03:45] desrt: Well what do you do to remove the evil sigs? [03:46] elmo: pleasy sync mpqc from unstable, ubuntu override ok [03:46] elmo: please also sync ipe from unstable, ubuntu override ok, thx [03:57] SEJeff; i've been thinking about this [03:57] SEJeff; there seems to be no mechanism to instruct the keyserver "please remove this shit from my key" === jlj [n=agp@207.67.194.249] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:57] SEJeff; which is a significant problem.... think about a spammer... they could sign everyone's key and attract huge amounts of attention to themselves [03:57] desrt: So all of the defaced keys have to be removed and regenerated? [03:58] desrt: That will be a headache [03:58] SEJeff; there is also no method for removing keys [03:58] desrt: You would likely have to contact the keyserver staff. It's possible I'm sure [03:59] SEJeff; there is no one keyserver. they constantly sync with each other [03:59] SEJeff; if you removed it from one it would just pick it up from the others again on the next sync === wazza [n=Miranda@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:59] thats why you dont loose your revoke key, kids [03:59] :) [04:00] even revoked keys stay on the servers [04:00] but revoked. [04:00] once ever have the revoked/expired keys been batch-removed [04:00] Diablo-D3: Thanks, I was out for a bit [04:00] Diablo-D3: Are you hosting that domain on dialup? It's super slow ;-P [04:00] SEJeff: nope, its on sf.net [04:01] Diablo-D3: might as well be dialup :) [04:01] yeah, I was having problems earlier [04:01] afaik its only one server out of many actually doing it [04:01] its unusual, thats for sure [04:02] Diablo-D3: I'm just kidding. But that server is being slammed ridiculously hard [04:02] no kidding [04:02] have you ever seen the sf.net hardware? [04:02] even the project webservers are beefy [04:02] and they have a ginormous ammount of bandwidth [04:03] Diablo-D3: Does that bootchart go to gdm only, or to the desktop? [04:03] SEJeff: um, ? [04:03] I have a choice? [04:03] Diablo-D3: I am asking [04:03] it only goes to gdm [04:04] SEJeff: your question doesnt make sense, I didnt know I could measure desktop component loading too [04:04] Diablo-D3: And what kind of hardware? [04:04] sempron 2600+, ungodly fast sata drive, 2 gigs of ram. [04:04] Diablo-D3: I have never used bootchart. I was curious if that measured up to gdm and stopped, or not. [04:04] Diablo-D3: Oh, that bootup sucks then [04:04] oh, afaik it only measures up to and including gdm [04:05] well, I think its apache and mysql screwing things over [04:05] maybe ssh too [04:05] I've actually considered using dropbear instead of openssh [04:05] openssh is a fatass [04:05] Diablo-D3: I can get 32 seconds to nautilus and a desktop with init-ng on my breezy box [04:05] dropbear is faster? [04:06] dropbear is a tiny little ssh server [04:06] Just because it's embedded I would think it is slower [04:06] its smaller memory footprint [04:06] its ungodly small [04:06] its something you'd, say, put on a wrt54g router [04:06] (which I do) [04:06] I have dropbear on my Linksys with OpenWRT [04:06] it didnt implement scp until recently for example [04:06] Yes [04:06] SEJeff: hah! [04:06] openwrt > * [04:06] tseng: yeah, and it sucked [04:06] small memory footprint != fast === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:06] tseng: I kept trying to sshfs my router, and I didnt understand why it didnt work until I realized it doesnt implement scp [04:07] i am pretty heavy on the scp/rsync [04:07] oh, and fuse > * [04:07] and dropbear's scp implementation still doesntsupport sshfs [04:07] or rather, it doesnt support the things sshfs uses [04:07] tseng: I love scp. and sftp also [04:07] mget * [04:07] anyhow [04:07] SEJeff: I dunno if thats slow or not [04:07] 45 seconds imo is fast [04:08] Diablo-D3: Did you read my above post? [04:08] which one? [04:08] SEJeff Diablo-D3: I can get 32 seconds to nautilus and a desktop with init-ng on my breezy box [04:08] oh that [04:08] yeah I read that [04:08] Thats the box I have my parents using [04:09] but I still dont think 45 seconds is slow [04:09] I'm loading apache2, mysql, openssh, distcc, and default installs dont [04:09] I was thinking it would be ~30 seconds or so [04:09] True [04:10] In a week or so (when I reboot dapper) I will put it back to a default state and make a bootchart [04:10] I've been considering bootcharting a ubuntu livecd [04:10] but that might not work as planned [04:10] well, actually, it might [04:10] I can still load the whole image into ram, right? [04:11] I just need to make a livecd that has bootchart. [04:11] Diablo-D3: Yep [04:11] And make an option in the bootloader [04:11] Like bootchart [04:11] hehe [04:11] Im surprised no one hasnt already done that [04:11] Diablo-D3: Seriously. That would be great to test out different systems [04:11] well, Im making no promises... [04:11] But you would have to modify bootchart [04:12] a livecd is significantly different enough to be pretty irrelevant [04:12] but if it doesnt seem like too much of a pita, I'll consideri yt [04:12] As I don't think /boot is in a tmpfs [04:12] *it [04:12] tseng: oh =/ [04:12] the IO is an entirely different story [04:12] nm then [04:12] it would be good to profile the livecd on different hardware [04:13] but not with the goal of optimizing iowait times on the desktop [04:13] And have a little wizard to email the bootchart back to ubuntu.org [04:13] tseng: hrm [04:13] oh [04:13] And maybe some hardware data [04:13] ogra: add bootchart support to your hwdb :P [04:13] Exactly [04:13] I wanna make a feature request for this on launchpad [04:13] That would be a great idea actually [04:13] just to make sure this idea isnt lost === Diablo-D3 wonders what livecd is under [04:15] argh [04:15] I hate launchpad sometimes [04:15] SEJeff, tseng: help me find ubuntu livecd on launchpad [04:17] actually, maybe I'll just put it on my blog [04:18] I'm not finding a live-cd component [04:18] yeah neither am I [04:18] Just the install scripts [04:18] the casper stuff too [04:18] I'll put it on my blog [04:18] and I'll post the url to the ubuntu-devel ml [04:19] Will you put a link in here also? [04:19] yeah of course [04:19] give me a second to write this up [04:20] ok === rebort [n=rob@bing39.cleveland-a.binghamton.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rebort [n=rob@bing39.cleveland-a.binghamton.edu] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] [04:25] whats the url for the hwdb? [04:26] http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/ creatively enough [04:26] hah [04:28] lol [04:28] in random googling, I've found this [04:28] SEJeff and tseng have both played professional football. (rotfl) [04:28] http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1021256519470427962&q=wep === tseng misses the joke [04:29] Use kismet instead of kismac though :) [04:29] kismet is pretty fun [04:29] Diablo-D3: http://www.digitalprognosis.com (hasn't been updated in a year and 1/2) and google for "jeff.schroeder2@us.army.mil" [04:30] I was using kismet on my laptop, and kismet drone on my wrt54g [04:30] You can find all kinds of my posts on LUG mailinglists [04:30] Yes [04:30] and you know what I found? [04:30] I'm the only ap in listening distance =( === hunger [n=hunger@p54A6394F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mojo [n=mojo@220-245-150-113-vic-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:31] wow [04:32] cracking wep is that easy? [04:32] in ideal circumstance [04:32] s [04:32] jesus! [04:32] that makes wep totally useless [04:32] thank god I use wpa2 [04:32] Diablo-D3: With my little sharp laptop, a copy of WHAX, and a few minutes driving around. I will always get net access [04:33] Whax also has the exploit code database from packetstorm AND metasploit framework [04:33] I'm waiting for openwrt to support multiple wifi vlans, btw [04:33] so I can simutaniously use wpa2 and no encryption [04:34] so I can use wpa2 for my clients, and open my ap for everyone else [04:34] which pcmcia that kernel 2.6.15 use? Is that pcmcia-cs or pcmciautils? [04:35] i am trying to solve some kernel panic here [04:35] mojo: pcmciautils, but watch out, it may lock the kernel up [04:35] I had to --purge both to bootwith 2.6.15 [04:35] Diablo-D3: you're rite, it DID lock up my PC [04:36] yeah, you're the fourth person in here so far to experience it [04:36] what I dont get is.... I dont even own pcmcia hardware. [04:36] atleast, not on my workstation [04:36] Diablo-D3: yup, I tried to purge both to boot with the kernel, locking up still happens, maybe I go the other way around, turn off the pcmcia service then [04:37] SEJeff: http://shadowconflict.blogspot.com/2005/12/bootchart-on-ubuntu-livecds.html [04:37] Diablo-D3: i am owning only Desktop,however the kernel still boot up with pcmcia service [04:37] mojo: it doesnt if you purge both pcmcia-cs and pcmciautils afail [04:37] *afaik === _jason [n=jason@dhcp0534.hrn.resnet.group.UPENN.EDU] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:39] tseng, url --^ [04:39] Diablo-D3: 2.6.15-6 solve this lock up, i only encountered this with 2.6.16-5 [04:39] hrm, let me check what Im using [04:40] uname -r [04:40] 2.6.15-5.7 [04:40] yeah, mojo ;) [04:41] 5.7 hrm [04:41] what an odd number ;) [04:41] then I think i am rite [04:41] its easier to apt-cache show linux-image-2.6.15-5-foo [04:41] the bug is fixed during 5 and 6 [04:42] thx anyway, bak to hacking [04:42] btw, the url u pasted has very nice layout, looks like Eclipse layout [04:42] wtf, bwm on openwrt has to be wrong [04:42] Total 287.1000 291.391 579.391 [04:42] thats KB/sec [04:42] I can only download at 90k/sec [04:42] and thats download, upload, and total, in that order. [04:44] oh I get it [04:44] ubuntu dapper magically made my connection faster *g* [04:45] elmo: please sync libccrtp from unstable, ubuntu override ok [04:46] new initramfs-tools [04:46] mojo: that could have been what did it [04:49] for whom who love a bit art on desktop, we are developers but not nerds rite? http://orion.thos.me.uk/~joneslee85/Tango-0.5.1.tar.bz2 <--- GNOME Tango Theme (latest) [04:49] Im not sure I want to look. [04:49] screenshot plzkthx [04:49] hold on sec [04:50] http://opax.swin.edu.au/~4089294/Tango.png [04:50] my eyes! [04:50] actually. [04:50] except for the background [04:50] thats not so bad [04:50] mojo: it looks like the icon theme is really coming together. [04:51] Tell me those colours are picked for high contrast on a black and white screen or something. [04:51] mojo: I still don't like the small folders. [04:51] aw [04:51] hrm [04:51] I dunno [04:51] i am not artists who designed it [04:51] i am just a mere developer [04:51] I like kde's crystal [04:51] who package it [04:51] mojo: I've talked with the artists. [04:51] :) [04:52] I was outside the first design meeting. [04:52] why dont we use crystal? [04:52] oh well, it's up to us to decide whether to move on to this theme rather than Humility [04:52] you guys can check this exciting post [04:52] http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=88477 [04:52] But I really like the overall style. [04:52] better yet [04:52] why doesnt someone make a Free icon set that is universal [04:52]