[12:03] <Diablo-D3> okay
[12:03] <ogra> got your bootchart ? 
[12:03] <Diablo-D3> 2.6.15-5 boots with pcmcia-cs and pcmciautils --purged
[12:04] <Diablo-D3> took 45 seconds to boot.
[12:04] <Diablo-D3> but this is with apache2 and mysql included
[12:05] <mjg59> dilinger: Uhm. As far as I know...
[12:05] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Could you post your bootchart?
[12:05] <Diablo-D3> uh sure
[12:05] <Diablo-D3> actually
[12:05] <Diablo-D3> I wanna do another one
[12:06] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: awesome, thanks
[12:07] <dilinger> mjg59: ok, turns out to be some framebuffer or other display thing, i think
[12:07] <Diablo-D3> Ill do it after I get back from dinner
[12:08] <SEJeff> ok
[12:08] <ogra> LaserJock, so ? 
[12:08] <LaserJock> ok, back
[12:08] <LaserJock> I had to get rid of pcmciautils also
[12:09] <ogra> but you are on 2.6.15-5 now ? 
[12:09] <LaserJock> yep
[12:09] <ogra> yay
[12:09] <LaserJock> but I had to get rid of ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-minimal. oh well
[12:10] <LaserJock> but sound and nvidia now work so that is cool too
[12:12] <LaserJock> so I don't know what is the problem with pcmcia and the 2.6.15 kernel but since I don't have any pcmcia I'm doing better than 2.6.12 right now
[12:42] <mdz> fabbione: why do you want to assign server-candy to a team rather than to yourself?
[12:42] <mdz> fabbione: it makes the summary displays in launchpad less useful
[01:06] <neuralis> ptlo: hey
[01:06] <ptlo> heya neuralis :)
[01:06] <ptlo> whassup
[01:07] <hawke_> Before I file a bug for lsb-release, has its behaviour changed intentionally recently?
[01:07] <neuralis> ptlo: finally working on the community server testing spec, will try to get it in line with mdz's wishes
[01:08] <ptlo> neuralis: that's nice, hope you won't have to do many changes to the initial drafts 
[01:09] <neuralis> ptlo: the initial drafts essentially don't at all deal with what mdz had in mind ;)
[01:10] <ptlo> then good luck with the rewrite :)
[01:14] <Diablo-D3> ahh
[01:15] <Diablo-D3> food is a wondeful thing
[01:24] <Diablo-D3> LaserJock: there really isnt a difference
[01:24] <Diablo-D3> LaserJock: pcmcia kernel modules and the userland stuff are two halves of the same thing
[01:25] <Diablo-D3> LaserJock: ie, one breaks, it all breaks =P
[01:30] <Diablo-D3> LOL!
[01:30] <Diablo-D3> great usplash!
[01:32] <Diablo-D3> okay
[01:32] <Diablo-D3> 45 seconds
[01:34] <neuralis> ptlo: for dapper+1, someone should write a M^7 spec. multiple mdzs mingling merrily 'mong mere mortals.
[01:34] <neuralis> ptlo: this would solve all of our BOF issues.
[01:34] <Diablo-D3> http://shadowconflict.com/dapper-20051201-2.png
[01:34] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: there.
[01:36] <ptlo> neuralis: hahahahah :))
[01:36] <ptlo> good job on the bacronym :)
[01:37] <Diablo-D3> neuralis: lol
[01:37] <mpt> neuralis, we used to plot doing that in the Mozilla Project too
[01:37] <mpt> Cloning Dave Hyatt and Blake Ross
[01:37] <Diablo-D3> is dave hyatt related to the one that works for apple?
[01:38] <tseng> he is the one
[01:38] <Diablo-D3> ahh, I've met him on irc
[01:38] <Diablo-D3> hes cool
[01:38] <tseng> he is a firefox hater now iirc
[01:38] <Diablo-D3> and he likes my blog <3
[01:38] <mpt> He's the god of Web browsers
[01:38] <mpt> He worked on Netscape 4
[01:38] <mpt> and started Firefox
[01:38] <mpt> and started Camino
[01:38] <mpt> and now works on Safari
[01:39] <Diablo-D3> I moved the image
[01:39] <mpt> oh yeah, and worked on the Mozilla suite
[01:39] <mpt> and invented XUL
[01:39] <mpt> and XBL
[01:39] <Diablo-D3> http://shadowconflict.com/blog/dapper-20051201-2.png
[01:39] <Diablo-D3> fear my awesome fast machine!
[01:39] <neuralis> tseng: interesting, he had his fingers in creating it. what happened?
[01:39] <Diablo-D3> neuralis: he realized khtml rocks.
[01:40] <LaserJock> Diablo-D3: sorry, I was away, what did you mean about the pcmcia stuff?
[01:40] <tseng> neuralis: he decided KHTML is a good idea
[01:40] <tseng> (pass the pipe)
[01:40] <Diablo-D3> LaserJock: you said you didnt know which was causing the problem
[01:40] <Diablo-D3> LaserJock: and I said it really didnt matter
[01:40] <Diablo-D3> something needs a smackdown! woopah!
[01:41] <LaserJock> Diablo-D3: hmm, ok, I just noticed that removing just pcmcia didn't work. I had to remove pcmcia-utils also
[01:41] <Diablo-D3> LaserJock: yeah
[01:41] <Diablo-D3> I had to dpkg --purge pcmcia-cs pcmciautils to make it work
[01:41] <Diablo-D3> other than the sound being broke, everything seems to be working
[01:42] <LaserJock> really, sound works for me now too
[01:42] <Diablo-D3> er, it does?
[01:42] <neuralis> tseng: weird. drugs are bad.
[01:42] <Diablo-D3> oh
[01:42] <Diablo-D3> bah
[01:42] <tseng> I agree
[01:42] <Diablo-D3> sound works
[02:01] <jsgotangco> yo jdub i'm at the conference now
[02:02] <Diablo-D3> conference?
[02:02] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: great, how is it?
[02:02] <ajmitch> when is your talk?
[02:02] <jsgotangco> Diablo-D3, linux desktop conference in seoul
[02:02] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, in an hour
[02:03] <ajmitch> nervous yet? :)
[02:04] <Diablo-D3> jsgotangco: ahh, cool
[02:05] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, not really
[02:05] <jsgotangco> i had to talk to the translator today
[02:05] <jsgotangco> poor jdub he really missed a lot
[02:06] <jsgotangco> the wireless is shitty though
[02:06] <ajmitch> as bad as UDU?
[02:06] <jsgotangco> pretty much
[02:06] <ajmitch> ouch
[02:07] <jsgotangco> its terribly cold though
[02:08] <jsgotangco> great im going to present in a windows laptop for a linux desktop conference
[02:09] <ajmitch> you don't have a cd on hand?
[02:28] <Amaranth> it seems like backports is quickly expanding from "apps that lots of users want" to "any and all packages that build on breezy"
[02:38] <desrt> something is extremely messed up with gpg right now
[02:38] <desrt> sebastien's key is seriously messed up
[02:43] <desrt> all of his normal signatures have expired and he has a tonne of new signatures from himself and from some other person who shares a similar key id (seb=A2D7D292 them=A2D70910) and whose key corrupted my gpg keyring as a result of downloading it
[02:43] <Amaranth> rHLfuwf is a bot.
[02:43] <Amaranth> "ircdig.com spider"
[02:46] <desrt> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?search=seb128&op=vindex
[02:49] <desrt> i wonder if his key got 0wned?
[02:49] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Thanks, I was out for a bit
[02:50] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Are you hosting that domain on dialup? It's super slow ;-P
[02:53] <tseng> desrt: yeah whats with the dozens of selfsigs
[02:54] <desrt> tseng; i just refreshed his key (last refresh was maybe a week ago) and it was like "22 new sigs"
[02:54] <desrt> tseng; +notice that all of his legit sigs have expired
[02:54] <desrt> sig 3     X  44779E18 2004-04-10  Fabio M. Di Nitto <fabbione@debian.org>
[02:54] <desrt> sig 3     X  91CFA34D 2004-08-16  James Henstridge <james@jamesh.id.au>
[02:54] <desrt> etc
[02:55] <desrt> ok.  not all of them, but many of them.
[02:56] <desrt> something bad is happening
[02:57] <desrt> ubuntu's keyserver, pgp.net keyservers and my gpg are all in agreement about this much :)
[03:03] <jamesh> desrt: I'll look at fixing up the code of conduct validation code today, so you don't need to remove your tinfoil hat
[03:03] <desrt> jamesh; thanks :D
[03:04] <desrt> jamesh; any reason why your signature on sebastien's key has expired?
[03:04] <desrt> (along with a bunch of other people)
[03:04] <jamesh> desrt: no idea
[03:05] <jamesh> desrt: maybe his key was marked to expire then?
[03:05] <desrt> jamesh; no.  only some of the signatures have expired
[03:05] <desrt> and it's the sigs themselves... not the key
[03:06] <jamesh> desrt: when you sign a key with an expiry date, it asks you if you want the signature to expire when the key expires
[03:06] <jamesh> desrt: but I've got no idea.
[03:07] <desrt> jamesh; i'm going to try and find out.  this is rather disturbing since my gpg is supposed to independently verify that the signature you've made on his key is valid and it seems to not be doing so
[03:10] <jamesh> desrt: maybe the key has been modified, so the signatures are invalid
[03:11] <desrt> but then the fingerprint wouldn't be the same, one would think
[03:11] <desrt> and therefore all signatures would break
[03:14] <desrt> type this:
[03:14] <desrt> gpg --recv-key CA57AD7C
[03:14] <desrt> tell me what happens
[03:16] <SEJeff> desrt, gpg: key CA57AD7C: public key "PGP Global Directory Verification Key" imported
[03:16] <SEJeff> desrt, worked fine
[03:16] <desrt> no errors about invalid packet sizes?
[03:17] <SEJeff> desrt, buffer shorter than subpacket. I got that 9 times
[03:17] <desrt> that's what i mean
[03:17] <desrt> this key has signed behdad's key with 22 expired signatures
[03:17] <desrt> that are dated 2005-01 through 2005-08 but all appeared just now
[03:18] <desrt> seems to be related to sebastien's problems
[03:18] <tseng> maybe a bad sign script just corrupted his key
[03:19] <tseng> doesnt make sense it would sign *itself* repeatedly though
[03:19] <desrt> even if both behdad and seb128's keys were 0wned, the keyservers shouldn't accept key uploads that cause my gpg to spew error messages when i use them
[03:20] <Amaranth> maybe a bad server replicated bad info throughout the system
[03:20] <desrt> Arrogance; even if that was the case, my gpg should independently verify the validity of the information and now show it to me if it's not true
[03:20] <desrt> so unless fabio, james, etc all had their keys stolen.....
[03:22] <desrt> ie: it shouldn't accept that seb's key is signed by someone just because the keyserver says so... it should actually verify the signature for itself
[03:25] <jamesh> desrt: are you using --list-sig or --check-sig?
[03:25] <desrt> list-sig
[03:25] <desrt> i didn't know of the difference, thanks.
[03:25] <jamesh> desrt: list-sig does not verify signatures
[03:26] <jamesh> it should show my signature on seb's key as valid (but expired)
[03:26] <jamesh> I don't know why it has expired
[03:26] <desrt> k.  here's a neat question
[03:27] <desrt> when the signature is stored on a signed key, what is stored with it to match it to the signing key
[03:27] <desrt> the 32bit ID, the full fingerprint?
[03:27] <jamesh> fingerprint
[03:27] <desrt> can i get that in the check/list-sig output?
[03:28] <jamesh> or maybe just the 64 bit key id
[03:29] <jamesh> use --with-colons
[03:29] <desrt> ok
[03:29] <desrt> now i'm very suspicious indeed :)
[03:29] <desrt> sig:?::17:431A3CEDA2D70910:2004-11-21:::::13x:
[03:29] <desrt> sig:!::17:431A3CEDA2D7D292:2004-11-21::::Sebastien Bacher <seb128@debian.org>:13x:
[03:29] <desrt> exactly the same 64bit key id except for the last 2 bytes
[03:30] <desrt> but, of course... since the signature doesn't contain the public key of the signing party there is no way to look at a signature and say "this is legit"
[03:31] <desrt> (without also having the key that claimed to create the signature)
[03:31] <desrt> which means that you are able to attach bogus signatures to people's keys with arbitrary key IDs, trivially
[03:34] <desrt> so the mysterious 431A3CEDA2D70910 signatures are probably a case of this......  which would also explain why no such key exists on the servers
[03:45] <SEJeff> desrt: Well what do you do to remove the evil sigs?
[03:46] <sistpoty> elmo: pleasy sync mpqc from unstable, ubuntu override ok
[03:46] <sistpoty> elmo: please also sync ipe from unstable, ubuntu override ok, thx
[03:57] <desrt> SEJeff; i've been thinking about this
[03:57] <desrt> SEJeff; there seems to be no mechanism to instruct the keyserver "please remove this shit from my key"
[03:57] <desrt> SEJeff; which is a significant problem.... think about a spammer... they could sign everyone's key and attract huge amounts of attention to themselves
[03:57] <SEJeff> desrt: So all of the defaced keys have to be removed and regenerated?
[03:58] <SEJeff> desrt: That will be a headache
[03:58] <desrt> SEJeff; there is also no method for removing keys
[03:58] <SEJeff> desrt: You would likely have to contact the keyserver staff. It's possible I'm sure
[03:59] <desrt> SEJeff; there is no one keyserver.  they constantly sync with each other
[03:59] <desrt> SEJeff; if you removed it from one it would just pick it up from the others again on the next sync
[03:59] <tseng> thats why you dont loose your revoke key, kids
[03:59] <desrt> :)
[04:00] <desrt> even revoked keys stay on the servers
[04:00] <tseng> but revoked.
[04:00] <desrt> once ever have the revoked/expired keys been batch-removed
 Diablo-D3: Thanks, I was out for a bit
 Diablo-D3: Are you hosting that domain on dialup? It's super slow ;-P
[04:00] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: nope, its on sf.net
[04:01] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: might as well be dialup :)
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> yeah, I was having problems earlier
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> afaik its only one server out of many actually doing it
[04:01] <Diablo-D3> its unusual, thats for sure
[04:02] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: I'm just kidding. But that server is being slammed ridiculously hard
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> no kidding
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> have you ever seen the sf.net hardware?
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> even the project webservers are beefy
[04:02] <Diablo-D3> and they have a ginormous ammount of bandwidth
[04:03] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Does that bootchart go to gdm only, or to the desktop?
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: um, ?
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> I have a choice?
[04:03] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: I am asking
[04:03] <Diablo-D3> it only goes to gdm
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: your question doesnt make sense, I didnt know I could measure desktop component loading too
[04:04] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: And what kind of hardware?
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> sempron 2600+, ungodly fast sata drive, 2 gigs of ram.
[04:04] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: I have never used bootchart. I was curious if that measured up to gdm and stopped, or not.
[04:04] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Oh, that bootup sucks then
[04:04] <Diablo-D3> oh, afaik it only measures up to and including gdm
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> well, I think its apache and mysql screwing things over
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> maybe ssh too
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> I've actually considered using dropbear instead of openssh
[04:05] <Diablo-D3> openssh is a fatass
[04:05] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: I can get 32 seconds to nautilus and a desktop with init-ng on my breezy box
[04:05] <SEJeff> dropbear is faster?
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> dropbear is a tiny little ssh server
[04:06] <SEJeff> Just because it's embedded I would think it is slower
[04:06] <tseng> its smaller memory footprint
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> its ungodly small
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> its something you'd, say, put on a wrt54g router
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> (which I do)
[04:06] <SEJeff> I have dropbear on my Linksys with OpenWRT
[04:06] <tseng> it didnt implement scp until recently for example
[04:06] <SEJeff> Yes
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: hah!
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> openwrt > *
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> tseng: yeah, and it sucked
[04:06] <SEJeff> small memory footprint != fast
[04:06] <Diablo-D3> tseng: I kept trying to sshfs my router, and I didnt understand why it didnt work until I realized it doesnt implement scp
[04:07] <tseng> i am pretty heavy on the scp/rsync
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> oh, and fuse > *
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> and dropbear's scp implementation still doesntsupport sshfs
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> or rather, it doesnt support the things sshfs uses
[04:07] <SEJeff> tseng: I love scp. and sftp also
[04:07] <SEJeff> mget *
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> anyhow
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: I dunno if thats slow or not
[04:07] <Diablo-D3> 45 seconds imo is fast
[04:08] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Did you read my above post?
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> which one?
[04:08] <SEJeff> SEJeff Diablo-D3: I can get 32 seconds to nautilus and a desktop with init-ng on my breezy box
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> oh that
[04:08] <Diablo-D3> yeah I read that
[04:08] <SEJeff> Thats the box I have my parents using
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> but I still dont think 45 seconds is slow
[04:09] <Diablo-D3> I'm loading apache2, mysql, openssh, distcc, and default installs dont
[04:09] <SEJeff> I was thinking it would be ~30 seconds or so
[04:09] <SEJeff> True
[04:10] <SEJeff> In a week or so (when I reboot dapper) I will put it back to a default state and make a bootchart
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> I've been considering bootcharting a ubuntu livecd
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> but that might not work as planned
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> well, actually, it might
[04:10] <Diablo-D3> I can still load the whole image into ram, right?
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> I just need to make a livecd that has bootchart.
[04:11] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Yep
[04:11] <SEJeff> And make an option in the bootloader
[04:11] <SEJeff> Like bootchart
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> hehe
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> Im surprised no one hasnt already done that
[04:11] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Seriously. That would be great to test out different systems
[04:11] <Diablo-D3> well, Im making no promises...
[04:11] <SEJeff> But you would have to modify bootchart
[04:12] <tseng> a livecd is significantly different enough to be pretty irrelevant
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> but if it doesnt seem like too much of a pita, I'll consideri yt
[04:12] <SEJeff> As I don't think /boot is in a tmpfs
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> *it
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> tseng: oh =/
[04:12] <tseng> the IO is an entirely different story
[04:12] <Diablo-D3> nm then
[04:12] <tseng> it would be good to profile the livecd on different hardware
[04:13] <tseng> but not with the goal of optimizing iowait times on the desktop
[04:13] <SEJeff> And have a little wizard to email the bootchart back to ubuntu.org
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> tseng: hrm
[04:13] <tseng> oh
[04:13] <SEJeff> And maybe some hardware data
[04:13] <tseng> ogra: add bootchart support to your hwdb :P
[04:13] <SEJeff> Exactly
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> I wanna make a feature request for this on launchpad
[04:13] <SEJeff> That would be a great idea actually
[04:13] <Diablo-D3> just to make sure this idea isnt lost
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> argh
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> I hate launchpad sometimes
[04:15] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff, tseng: help me find ubuntu livecd on launchpad
[04:17] <Diablo-D3> actually, maybe I'll just put it on my blog
[04:18] <SEJeff> I'm not finding a live-cd component
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> yeah neither am I
[04:18] <SEJeff> Just the install scripts
[04:18] <SEJeff> the casper stuff too
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> I'll put it on my blog
[04:18] <Diablo-D3> and I'll post the url to the ubuntu-devel ml
[04:19] <SEJeff> Will you put a link in here also?
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> yeah of course
[04:19] <Diablo-D3> give me a second to write this up
[04:20] <SEJeff> ok
[04:25] <Diablo-D3> whats the url for the hwdb?
[04:26] <tseng> http://hwdb.ubuntu.com/ creatively enough
[04:26] <Diablo-D3> hah
[04:28] <Diablo-D3> lol
[04:28] <Diablo-D3> in random googling, I've found this
[04:28] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff and tseng have both played professional football. (rotfl)
[04:28] <SEJeff> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1021256519470427962&q=wep
[04:29] <SEJeff> Use kismet instead of kismac though :)
[04:29] <Diablo-D3> kismet is pretty fun
[04:29] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: http://www.digitalprognosis.com (hasn't been updated in a year and 1/2) and google for "jeff.schroeder2@us.army.mil"
[04:30] <Diablo-D3> I was using kismet on my laptop, and kismet drone on my wrt54g
[04:30] <SEJeff> You can find all kinds of my posts on LUG mailinglists
[04:30] <SEJeff> Yes
[04:30] <Diablo-D3> and you know what I found?
[04:30] <Diablo-D3> I'm the only ap in listening distance =(
[04:31] <Diablo-D3> wow
[04:32] <Diablo-D3> cracking wep is that easy?
[04:32] <tseng> in ideal circumstance
[04:32] <tseng> s
[04:32] <Diablo-D3> jesus!
[04:32] <Diablo-D3> that makes wep totally useless
[04:32] <Diablo-D3> thank god I use wpa2
[04:32] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: With my little sharp laptop, a copy of WHAX, and a few minutes driving around. I will always get net access
[04:33] <SEJeff> Whax also has the exploit code database from packetstorm AND metasploit framework
[04:33] <Diablo-D3> I'm waiting for openwrt to support multiple wifi vlans, btw
[04:33] <Diablo-D3> so I can simutaniously use wpa2 and no encryption
[04:34] <Diablo-D3> so I can use wpa2 for my clients, and open my ap for everyone else
[04:34] <mojo> which pcmcia that kernel 2.6.15 use? Is that pcmcia-cs or pcmciautils?
[04:35] <mojo> i am trying to solve some kernel panic here
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> mojo: pcmciautils, but watch out, it may lock the kernel up
[04:35] <Diablo-D3> I had to --purge both to bootwith 2.6.15
[04:35] <mojo> Diablo-D3: you're rite, it DID lock up my PC
[04:36] <Diablo-D3> yeah, you're the fourth person in here so far to experience it
[04:36] <Diablo-D3> what I dont get is.... I dont even own pcmcia hardware.
[04:36] <Diablo-D3> atleast, not on my workstation
[04:36] <mojo> Diablo-D3: yup, I tried to purge both to boot with the kernel, locking up still happens, maybe I go the other way around, turn off the pcmcia service then
[04:37] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: http://shadowconflict.blogspot.com/2005/12/bootchart-on-ubuntu-livecds.html
[04:37] <mojo> Diablo-D3: i am owning only Desktop,however the kernel still boot up with pcmcia service
[04:37] <Diablo-D3> mojo: it doesnt if you purge both pcmcia-cs and pcmciautils afail
[04:37] <Diablo-D3> *afaik
[04:39] <Diablo-D3> tseng, url --^
[04:39] <mojo> Diablo-D3: 2.6.15-6 solve this lock up, i only encountered this with 2.6.16-5
[04:39] <Diablo-D3> hrm, let me check what Im using
[04:40] <mojo> uname -r
[04:40] <Diablo-D3> 2.6.15-5.7
[04:40] <Diablo-D3> yeah, mojo ;)
[04:41] <mojo> 5.7 hrm
[04:41] <mojo> what an odd number ;)
[04:41] <mojo> then I think i am rite
[04:41] <Diablo-D3> its easier to apt-cache show linux-image-2.6.15-5-foo
[04:41] <mojo> the bug is fixed during 5 and 6
[04:42] <mojo> thx anyway, bak to hacking
[04:42] <mojo> btw, the url u pasted has very nice layout, looks like Eclipse layout
[04:42] <Diablo-D3> wtf, bwm on openwrt has to be wrong
[04:42] <Diablo-D3>        Total          287.1000      291.391         579.391
[04:42] <Diablo-D3> thats KB/sec
[04:42] <Diablo-D3> I can only download at 90k/sec
[04:42] <Diablo-D3> and thats download, upload, and total, in that order.
[04:44] <Diablo-D3> oh I get it
[04:44] <Diablo-D3> ubuntu dapper magically made my connection faster *g*
[04:45] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync libccrtp from unstable, ubuntu override ok
[04:46] <Diablo-D3> new initramfs-tools
[04:46] <Diablo-D3> mojo: that could have been what did it
[04:49] <mojo> for whom who love a bit art on desktop, we are developers but not nerds rite? http://orion.thos.me.uk/~joneslee85/Tango-0.5.1.tar.bz2   <--- GNOME Tango Theme (latest)
[04:49] <Diablo-D3> Im not sure I want to look.
[04:49] <Diablo-D3> screenshot plzkthx
[04:49] <mojo> hold on sec
[04:50] <mojo> http://opax.swin.edu.au/~4089294/Tango.png
[04:50] <Diablo-D3> my eyes!
[04:50] <Diablo-D3> actually.
[04:50] <Diablo-D3> except for the background
[04:50] <Diablo-D3> thats not so bad
[04:50] <xkahn> mojo: it looks like the icon theme is really coming together.
[04:51] <jbailey> Tell me those colours are picked for high contrast on a black and white screen or something.
[04:51] <xkahn> mojo: I still don't like the small folders.
[04:51] <mojo> aw
[04:51] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[04:51] <Diablo-D3> I dunno
[04:51] <mojo> i am not artists who designed it
[04:51] <mojo> i am just a mere developer
[04:51] <Diablo-D3> I like kde's crystal
[04:51] <mojo> who package it
[04:51] <xkahn> mojo: I've talked with the artists.
[04:51] <xkahn> :)
[04:52] <xkahn> I was outside the first design meeting.
[04:52] <Diablo-D3> why dont we use crystal?
[04:52] <mojo> oh well, it's up to us to decide whether to move on to this theme rather than Humility
[04:52] <mojo> you guys can check this exciting post
[04:52] <mojo> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=88477
[04:52] <xkahn> But I really like the overall style.
[04:52] <Diablo-D3> better yet
[04:52] <Diablo-D3> why doesnt someone make a Free icon set that is universal
[04:52] <Diablo-D3> that works with everything
[04:52] <xkahn> Diablo-D3: that's what tango is.
[04:53] <Diablo-D3> xkahn: can I use it with kde?
[04:53] <xkahn> Diablo-D3: yes.
[04:53] <mojo> for now, i am going to bed, damm freaking tired hacking all day long
[04:53] <Diablo-D3> my prayers have been answered
[04:53] <Diablo-D3> now all I want is matching plastiky/openlooky gtk and qt themes
[04:53] <xkahn> Diablo-D3: http://tango-project.org/Tango_Desktop_Project
[04:53] <SEJeff> The clearlooks in dapper is nice
[04:53] <SEJeff> I really like it
[04:54] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: ...
[04:54] <xkahn> Diablo-D3: it's based on the Firefox icon style.
[04:54] <Diablo-D3> xkahn: eh, I guess its okay
[04:54] <xkahn> Diablo-D3: and the artist who did that is helping.
[04:54] <Diablo-D3> I wanna see finished product before I pass judgement
[04:54] <Diablo-D3> because I cant say they're ugly icons
[04:54] <xkahn> I'm not involved anymore.
[04:55] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: Sorry for being the odd bird. I personally know the guy who worked on the original Human theme (Nathan Mcallum) and told him it sucked
[04:55] <Diablo-D3> SEJeff: well, you suck then
[04:55] <Diablo-D3> actually, I cant say human is that good either
[04:55] <Diablo-D3> I prefer the default openlooks theme
[04:55] <SEJeff> Diablo-D3: I use bluecurve icons on Ubuntu with clearlooks gtk and metacity
[04:55] <xkahn> And even then I was only NEAR them when work started.
[04:55] <xkahn> And mostly complained about it.
[04:55] <xkahn> :)
[04:55] <Diablo-D3> I use the qt-gtk theme
[04:55] <Diablo-D3> so I get plastik in gtk =P
[04:56] <SEJeff> to each his own
[04:56] <Diablo-D3> slow as fuck but hey
[04:56] <xkahn> and historically buggy.
[04:56] <Amaranth> but clearlooks cairo (real stuff, not human) looks awesome
[04:57] <SEJeff> Amaranth: Yes, thats what I was talking about. The scrollbars are just "pretty"
[04:57] <Amaranth> and afaik there isn't a single prerendered image in it
[04:58] <Amaranth> http://www.stellingwerff.com/progress_ltr.gif is the part i like
[04:58] <Amaranth> someone wrote a patch to do it, but i dunno if it's in gnome cvs or dapper yet
[04:58] <SEJeff> Amaranth: Why don't they make a brown version and call it "human 2"
[04:59] <mojo> yuk, can't sleep, bak to IRC
[04:59] <SEJeff> ANd you can toggle progress bar animation in your .gtkrc I believe
[04:59] <Diablo-D3> mojo: lol
[04:59] <mojo> SEJeff: feel free to hack it to brown, it's pretty easy
[04:59] <Amaranth> SEJeff: eventually, you'll be able to
[04:59] <SEJeff> I'm just curious why it isn't the default
[05:00] <SEJeff> Usability wise, I think clearlooks gives the best user feedback
[05:00] <mojo> SEJeff: it's not the default b/c it reminds me of the color of chocolate, I dun want to get overweighted since I sit next to my PC 24/7
[05:00] <mojo> ;)
[05:00] <Diablo-D3> lol
[05:01] <Diablo-D3> it reminds me of chocolate, and since I'm allergic to chocolate, I'm going to switch to suse!
[05:01] <Diablo-D3> no, gentoo! yeah! I'm the world's next ricer! yar!
[05:01] <mojo> lol
[05:01] <SEJeff> Well I like blue over brown... but since Mark is determined that Brown will be Warty --> Dapper, it will be brown
[05:01] <Diablo-D3> Im going to go recompile my entire OS just so I can get 1% improvement, but 50% more instability for free!
[05:02] <mojo> i am working on fixes rotation order in gnome-panel, it's pain in the ass, y GNOME developers has a such bad design for GNOME Panel, if they did better, we can have a transparent, right rotated ordered panel like KDE
[05:03] <Amaranth> ack, jdong just pointed out a problem with backports
[05:03] <Amaranth> vlc in breezy-backports works but the version in dapper has changed and won't build anymore
[05:03] <Amaranth> so what happens if there is a security issue with the vlc in backports?
[05:03] <Diablo-D3> Amaranth: ouch
[05:04] <SEJeff> mojo: I talked to davyd madely about the transparency issue and he isn't really sure why it does that
[05:04] <Diablo-D3> Amaranth: you'd think a new one would be backported
[05:04] <Diablo-D3> and bleh linux-restricted-modules-common is still whacked
[05:04] <Amaranth> Diablo-D3: can't be, dapper version doesn't build against breezy anymore
[05:05] <Diablo-D3> Amaranth: er.
[05:05] <Diablo-D3> Amaranth: ... oh my.
[05:07] <mojo> SEJeff: and the transparency issue is very pain staking, I've been hacking on it for 2 weeks, still doesn't get it work properly, b/c GDK and Cairo based theme behave pretty differently, >,<
[05:08] <SEJeff> mojo: yes, see my bug on that: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20022
[05:10] <mojo> SEJeff: nasty bug heh? I am also thinking giving patch to Main Menu bar, making it transparent aswell, but I haven't imagined how do you set Properties for it, right click on Menu Bar? Or make it follow the Settings applied to the panel it's placed on
[05:11] <SEJeff> mojo: Inherit the panel settings. Anything else would be very anti-HIG
[05:13] <FireRabbit> are the images used on the official ubuntu cds avaliable somewhere?
[05:13] <mojo> SEJeff: that's the hard bit, making it inherits the parent panel, anyway I am trying to working that out
[05:14] <mojo> FireRabbit: ask ubuntu-art
[05:14] <mojo> FireRabbit: ask at #ubuntu-art
[05:14] <FireRabbit> uhhh...okay..
[05:14] <mojo> FireRabbit: sorri, it's #ubuntu-artwork
[05:15] <FireRabbit> oh
[05:15] <SEJeff> mojo: It really bugs me that the panel won't respect transparency properly
[05:15] <FireRabbit> i was going to say..
[05:15] <SEJeff> mojo: good luck fixing that one.
[05:15] <mojo> SEJeff: it's the design that count, bad design is annyoying
[05:16] <SEJeff> And that is why superheros like federico, behad, and mattias have to optimize gnome
[05:16] <SEJeff> It is slow
[05:17] <mojo> SEJeff: that's bad, GNOME should aim for quality 1st, or else GNOME will lag behind KDE
[05:18] <mojo> SEJeff: can you also post up to Bugzilla for me this bug:
[05:19] <mojo> SEJeff: when u set your panel vertically, the Window List doesn't rotate along
[05:20] <SEJeff> mojo: I will open a bug. BUt it will be a few minutes
[05:20] <mojo> SEJeff: thx in adv
[05:22] <mojo> SEJeff: btw, can you send me the BlueCurve theme package that you used in the screenshot? I am so lazy to install Fedora just to get that theme
[05:22] <SEJeff> mojo: How about this
[05:22] <SEJeff> mojo: I wrote a script to download it from the fedora site, alien it to deb, install it, and use gconftool-2 to set it as default
[05:23] <infinity> Diablo-D3 : Oops.  lrm-common fix uploaded.
[05:23] <SEJeff> mojo: I haven't had time to finish the script 100%, but you can cherrypick that part if you are interested
[05:23] <mojo> SEJeff: it'd be nice
[05:23] <mojo> SEJeff: okay, I will help u revise the script
[05:24] <SEJeff> mojo: www.digitalprognosis.com/opensource/setup.sh
[05:24] <SEJeff> mojo: I've honestly just been to busy to finish it. I'm sure that will give you an idea of what to do though
[05:24] <SEJeff> And if anyone else wants to comment about it feel free
[05:25] <SEJeff> mojo: make SURE to not run the sed commands on your init scripts
[05:25] <mojo> SEJeff: cool, i got it, playing around with it now
[05:27] <SEJeff> mojo: It's a mess ATM, but I haven't seen a script as complete yet
[05:27] <SEJeff> So I wrote one
[05:30] <SEJeff> mojo: I'm going to fix some things in that script right now and re-ul a new copy in a few minutes
[05:32] <mojo> SEJeff: url?
[05:32] <mojo> SEJeff: I go out get pizza
[05:32] <SEJeff> mojo, Same as before. I'll update it in a bit
[05:35] <aedes> are most ubuntu packages modified from the debian ones?
[05:36] <Amaranth> the desktop ones, yeah
[05:37] <aedes> I'm wondering about cupsaddsmb, specifically
[05:38] <Amaranth> !info cupsaddsmb
[05:42] <aedes> !info cupsaddsmb
[05:42] <infinity> That would work a lot better if this wasn't #ubuntu-devel.
[05:42] <aedes> Amaranth, if that's for a bot in here, I'm not getting anything
[05:43] <aedes> infinity, where would it work better?
[05:43] <Amaranth> err, i forgot, that's only in #ubuntu :P
[05:43] <infinity> (Which is where this conversation should be)
[05:44] <aedes> infinity, I'm unclear as to exactly what is considered development
[05:44] <infinity> aedes : Working on development is development.  Asking how development works isn't.
[05:44] <infinity> If you're asking for curiosity's sake, ask in #ubuntu, if you're asking cause you want to get involved, #ubuntu-motu
[05:45] <ptlo> if you're asking if you should install dapper, don't :)
[05:46] <infinity> (And no, I'm not just picking on you, I just happened to glance at my screen at the wrong/right time)
[05:46] <aedes> actually, I was ultimately looking for the modified sources, to debug a problem I'm having
[05:46] <infinity> The sources are in the archive, next to the binaries.
[05:46] <aedes> I can probably get that frrom the devel resources, I suppose
[05:46] <aedes> ok, thanks
[05:47] <infinity> "apt-get source foo"
[05:47] <infinity> Definitely not a -devel question.
 SEJeff: I go out get pizza
[05:49] <Diablo-D3> mojo: get an ansi standard pizza!
[05:54] <calc> anyone use dual head dvi?
[05:55] <calc> i'm trying to find a good dual head dvi agp card that isn't too expensive
[05:55] <infinity> What resolution on each head?
[05:55] <calc> 1920x1200
[05:56] <infinity> Ouch.  Then you need dual DVI-D.
[05:56] <calc> so within single link specs if the card fully supports it (ie nvidia 5xxx doesn't aiui)
[05:56] <infinity> Which is going to be  abit pricier.
[05:56] <infinity> a bit, too.
[05:56] <calc> 1920x1200 is at the limit of single link
[05:56] <Diablo-D3> which islame
[05:56] <calc> some older nvidia cards only do 135MHz which isn't enough for 1920x1200 the spec itself is 165MHz which is fine for 1920x1200
[05:56] <infinity> Are you positive on that?... I usually see the limit qutoed at 1280x1024
[05:57] <calc> i'm also trying to find a card that is fanless which seems to be harder
[05:57] <calc> infinity: yea
[05:57] <calc> most cards say either 1280x1024, 1600x1200, or 1920x1200
[05:57] <Diablo-D3> yeah, you can do 1600x1200 on a single link fine
[05:57] <infinity> Well, fiif you find a card maching those specs that isn't DVI-D, let me know.  I'm curious.
[05:57] <calc> the only lcd that needs dual link aiui is apple 30"
[05:57] <Diablo-D3> calc: heh
[05:57] <calc> though some of the 9MP displays might use multiple dual link ports
[05:58] <Diablo-D3> theres more than one >1920x1200 lcd now
[05:58] <Diablo-D3> but Im betting it uses the same panel apple's gigantor
[05:58] <calc> infinity: DVI-D confusingly enough doesn't mean dual link ;)
[05:58] <Diablo-D3> dvi-d == digital
[05:58] <calc> DVI-D is DVI Digital (only)
[05:58] <Diablo-D3> ie, what dvi is supposted to be
[05:58] <calc> as opposed to DVI-I which is what i use on my 21" crt
[05:59] <calc> DVI-I ports do digital and analog
[05:59] <calc> my 21" crt being analog of course
[05:59] <Diablo-D3> lol
[05:59] <infinity> Err, then "DVI-dual", then. :)
[05:59] <Diablo-D3> infinity: "dual link"
[05:59] <calc> Diablo-D3: there are other 30" high res displays now?
[05:59] <Diablo-D3> I think dvi is retarded for dong that, btw
[05:59] <Diablo-D3> calc: yeah
[05:59] <calc> Diablo-D3: there have been better than apple lcds for a long time but not the same res as them until recently i guess
[06:00] <Diablo-D3> calc: I forget who, though, someone pointed it on on irc somewhere a few days back
[06:00] <Diablo-D3> I think it was a samsung
[06:00] <calc> several companies have had 3840x2400 displays for years
[06:00] <Diablo-D3> those 3840x2400 displays suck
[06:00] <Diablo-D3> they tile lcd panels to do it
[06:00] <Diablo-D3> and you get that horrible seam because of it
[06:00] <calc> oh?
[06:01] <calc> thats odd
[06:01] <Diablo-D3> you dont notice it when you're across the room though ;)
[06:01] <calc> so they get tiny high res panels to do it
[06:01] <calc> ?
[06:01] <Diablo-D3> basically
[06:01] <calc> iirc most of the 3840x2400 lcds were ~ 21"
[06:01] <Diablo-D3> not theones I saw
[06:01] <Diablo-D3> they were like 40+ inches
[06:02] <calc> hmm maybe the 21" ones i saw were real single pane lcds
[06:02] <Diablo-D3> maybe
[06:02] <calc> iirc viewsonic and ibm made them among other companies
[06:03] <calc> the biggest samsung has on their site is 32" and is low res
[06:03] <calc> 1280x768, basically just a hdtv
[06:03] <HrdwrBoB> best is 24"
[06:03] <HrdwrBoB> 24" 1920x1200
[06:03] <HrdwrBoB> samsung panel
[06:03] <Diablo-D3> no
[06:03] <Diablo-D3> best is apple's 30"
[06:03] <calc> HrdwrBoB: yea, Diablo-D3 thought samsung was a company that had a competing lcd to apples 30"
[06:04] <Diablo-D3> I think it was samsung, calc 
[06:04] <calc> i have two 23" 1920x1200 on order
[06:04] <HrdwrBoB> erm, apples LCDs are samsung
[06:04] <Diablo-D3> HrdwrBoB: nope.
[06:04] <HrdwrBoB> IIRC
[06:04] <calc> Diablo-D3: perhaps its not available yet and was at a tradeshow
[06:04] <Diablo-D3> apple buys panels from quite a few companies
[06:04] <Diablo-D3> calc: maybe, I wasnt quite with it that day =/
[06:04] <calc> whoever actually produces them for apple doesn't seem to be selling them for themselves  yet
[06:05] <dholbach> good morning ubunteros
[06:05] <Diablo-D3> its funny
[06:05] <Diablo-D3> apple gets first crack at buying panels
[06:05] <Diablo-D3> from any company
[06:05] <calc> wow apple lcd is down to ~ $2350 USD
[06:05] <Diablo-D3> everyone else gets the panels apple rejected
[06:06] <infinity> That's because Apple will pay more wholesale than they could get retail for the same panel.
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> yup.
[06:06] <infinity> Because Apple can resell it with a big "it has an Apple logo on it, suckers!" pricetag.
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> infinity: well, yeah
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> but samsung makes the best panels in the world
[06:06] <Diablo-D3> there are samsung models I'll buy before apple ones.
[06:06] <calc> put a better backlight in and take all the features off the monitor and put apple logo on it, instant profit
[06:07] <calc> the ones i got are HP L2335
[06:07] <calc> has dvi/vga/component video/svideo/pip/etc
[06:07] <Diablo-D3> yeah, all I need is dvi
[06:07] <calc> i can hook up a cable box to it and watch tv on one and work on the other :)
[06:08] <Diablo-D3> who'd want to? =/
[06:08] <calc> s/tv/pron/ maybe? ;)
[06:08] <Diablo-D3> all my pron is dvd rips.
[06:08] <calc> i have a tv card in my box that afaict still doesn't work under linux :\
[06:10] <calc> it'll teach me not to buy hardware without finished support
[06:10] <calc> :\
[06:11] <Diablo-D3> roffle
[06:11] <Diablo-D3> I gave up on cable tv
[06:11] <Diablo-D3> I mean, right now I'm downloading about 35098325083 hours of anime
[06:12] <Diablo-D3> 58 hours.
[06:13] <HrdwrBoB> the amount of anime you watch is inversely proportional to how capable you are of integrating into society
[06:13] <calc> HrdwrBoB: is that a bad thing?
[06:13] <Diablo-D3> HrdwrBoB: I watch very little anime.
[06:13] <calc> most of society sucks
[06:13] <Diablo-D3> calc has a point
[06:14] <HrdwrBoB> calc: I'm just making sure people are aware
[06:14] <calc> heh
[06:14] <calc> HrdwrBoB: does that rule hold up if the anime in question is hentai?
[06:14] <Diablo-D3> I'd actually like to live in some of these alternate tokyos
[06:15] <HrdwrBoB> calc: hentai is double
[06:15] <calc> hmm looks like my tv card might work if i add a card entry for it to the drive
[06:15] <calc> driver
[06:16] <calc> HrdwrBoB: heh
[06:16] <Diablo-D3> who here has seen read or die tv?
[06:16] <HrdwrBoB> I'd also like to point out that japan has one of the highest rates of depression and suicide, despite having the most disposable income
[06:16] <HrdwrBoB> .. but this is INCREDIBLY offtopic
[06:16] <fabbione> morning
[06:16] <HrdwrBoB> so we should all STFU right now. please.
[06:22] <Diablo-D3> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001211
[06:22] <Diablo-D3> yum
[06:29] <fabbione> who is a bit familiar with printers?
[06:31] <dholbach> fabbione: pitti?
[06:35] <fabbione> hmm i think i figured :)
[06:36] <fabbione> mdz: ping?
[06:37] <fabbione> hey pitti
[06:37] <fabbione> dholbach: you talk about the evil :)
[06:37] <pitti> Good morning
[06:37] <dholbach> haha :)
[06:37] <Diablo-D3> fabbione: I am a little.
[06:37] <fabbione> pitti: i have a foomatic-* question for you :)
[06:38] <Diablo-D3> erk, foomatic scary
[06:38] <pitti> fabbione: uh, ENOCLUE, but what's it?
[06:38] <fabbione> pitti: #17218 and #17693 they are basically asking to include the only 2 foomatic external drivers in the archive (universe) into main
[06:38] <fabbione> pitti: printing stuff
[06:38] <pitti> yes, THAT much I know :)
[06:38] <Diablo-D3> lol
[06:39] <fabbione> pitti: what do you suggest? add a Depends: in foomatic-db or just seed them?
[06:39] <fabbione> pitti: well never be sure :P
[06:39] <fabbione> in both cases i guess they will need a main inclusion report
[06:40] <pitti> fabbione: I'd rather seed them, then folks can at least unintstall them
[06:40] <pitti> fabbione: yes, but PPD files are a no-brainer
[06:40] <fabbione> pitti: yeah they are not even that big.. 1MB or so
[06:40] <Diablo-D3> zomg 1 meg?!
[06:41] <fabbione> (both of them)
[06:41] <pitti> fabbione: uh, that's pretty big for a PPD file...
[06:41] <pitti> but having them in main at least can't hurt
[06:41] <fabbione> there is more in foo2
[06:41] <Diablo-D3> no kidding
[06:41] <Diablo-D3> thank god I dont want zipubuntu.
[06:41] <doko> good morning
[06:41] <mdz> fabbione: yes?
[06:42] <fabbione> pitti: the foo2.. has quite a bunch of PPD
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: thanks. i was going to ask the same question as pitti
[06:42] <fabbione> mdz: my printing knowledge is like UBZ..
[06:42] <fabbione> below zero
[06:42] <Diablo-D3> lol
[06:43] <pitti> fabbione: we should also switch to gutenprint, btw
[06:43] <fabbione> pitti: -ENOIDEAWHATYOUARETALKINGABOUT
[06:43] <Diablo-D3> -EWTF
[06:43] <fabbione> pitti: i am dead serious.. i don't understand printing at all :)
[06:43] <pitti> fabbione: it's the successor to gimpprint
[06:44] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. does that effect these 2 pkgs?
[06:44] <pitti> just more drivers, etc.
[06:44] <pitti> fabbione: if these 2 packages are just PPDs, then not; if there are binaries, maybe, but I don't know that much either
[06:44] <pitti> at least I have to look at the packages first 
[06:44] <fabbione> only one has a bunch of binaries
[06:47] <zakame> er is libatlas-cpp-0.5 dropped? eris b-ds on it...
[06:51] <mdz> where is initramfs-tools mainline these days?
[06:52] <mdz> (bzr)
[06:53] <mdz> infinity: ^^
[06:56] <infinity> mdz : I don't have a bzr branch (or new mainline) as yet, so the "old" mainline of Jeff's is still authoritative (though out of date)... If Scott's been doing his changes in a bzr branch, his stuff should be pushed and made the new maqinline for me to merge back into.
[06:56] <infinity> mdz : So, short answer right now, without input from Scott, is that the archive is authoritative.
[06:57] <mdz> the archive is definitely out of date and I don't see any branches in ~scott
[06:57] <infinity> I meant "the archive", as in "archive.ubuntu.com"
[06:57] <mdz> oh, that
[06:58] <infinity> I'll branch Jeff's archive, merge Scott's stuff, and publish to chinstrap shortlyish.
[06:59] <fabbione> pitti: ok.. i got the seed changes.. now.. main inclusion reports
[07:02] <mdz> infinity: I'm going to upload a trivial change nowish
[07:02] <infinity> Worksish for meish.
[07:03] <infinity> Now that we're mostly caught up on merges, would this be a good time for me to book off a day or two for nothing but hunting FTBFS bugs and filing reports?
[07:05] <fabbione> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue is this page still the canonical queue?
[07:05] <stephans> who do I talk to regarding active directory and exchange oss replacements for ubuntu
[07:05] <pitti> fabbione: yes, it is
[07:06] <fabbione> pitti: if so ocfs2-tools: MainInclusionReportOcfs2Tools [defered]  it's in main already
[07:06] <pitti> fabbione: I also created a page template for them which should make it easier to create a report
[07:06] <fabbione> pitti: you rock :)
[07:06] <pitti> fabbione: oh, then sb forgot to move it to accepted
[07:10] <slomo> pitti: ah, while we're at main inclusions... did you already take a look at xsp? would be nice to get it into main asap... and do you think we can get avahi into main for dapper? :)
[07:10] <pitti> slomo: I wanted to catch up a little with the reports today
[07:11] <pitti> meh avahi - that's going to be a hell of a review
[07:11] <mdz> stephans: ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
[07:11] <slomo> pitti: fine :) when you have some question on both feel free to ask me
[07:12] <mdz> stephans: assuming you want to tell us about existing software, rather than suggesting that we write it
[07:13] <fabbione> ARGH
[07:14] <fabbione> mozilla crashing while you are editing a maininclusion report? .. priceless
[07:14] <pitti> fabbione: too bad we never wrote a report for firefox itself
[07:15] <stephans> mdz: well... ahem... i am not a developer... but I am willing to test.... who should write this?
[07:16] <Lathiat> pitti: heh
[07:16] <stephans> mdz: i mean.. I have several smaller clients that I am trying to evangelize linux to
[07:16] <dholbach> pitti: what would have ended up with? dillo?
[07:17] <stephans> their requirements are 1: something like exchange and active directory...
[07:17] <stephans> but ... he... fedore directory would fit the bill 
[07:17] <stephans> Fedora.. sorry
[07:17] <stephans> but that would require using Fedore
[07:17] <mdz> stephans: we can't write all of the free software that anyone would like; what we do is integrate software which is available as open source into a distribution
[07:18] <mdz> stephans: if fedora has a directory server which meets our licensing guidelines, then I'd be interested in hearing about it
[07:18] <stephans> can you integrate Fedora Directory Server?
[07:18] <stephans> it is GPL
[07:18] <dholbach> stephans: you could add it to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseCandidates
[07:18] <stephans> by redHat
[07:19] <stephans> ok  i will
[07:19] <stephans> one more question...
[07:19] <stephans> is ubuntu comitted to delivering on the server side as well as on the desktop?
[07:20] <infinity> It was just released under a useable license, afaik.
[07:20] <stephans> I know that ubuntu et al. is mainly known for desktop
[07:20] <stephans> infinity: what was?
[07:20] <dholbach> stephans: dapper will be supported for 5 years on the server (!)
[07:20] <dholbach> :)
[07:20] <infinity> RHDS (rebraded as FDS)
[07:21] <stephans> great!
[07:21] <stephans> should i try to alien it?
[07:21] <infinity> I doubt that would go well..
[07:21] <stephans> and try to run it?
[07:21] <stephans> ok
[07:21] <infinity> But you can always try.
[07:23] <stephans> hey, infinity, are you going to try?
[07:23] <stephans> to port FDS that is?
[07:23] <stephans> Do you think that it would be a lot of work?
[07:24] <infinity> It will be a chunk of work.
[07:25] <infinity> You realise that RHDS/FDS isn't an Active Directory replacement, but rather something that works kinda like it, but not quite, right?
[07:26] <infinity> ie: If you want Win2K/WinXP Active Directory clients on your network, you still need an AD machine that your RHDS/FDS system syncs with.
[07:31] <fabbione> pitti: i did queue the 2 reports for review. Of course i left the security stuff to you
[07:32] <pitti> yes, that's fine, thanks
[07:32] <fabbione> otherwise they look no-brainer
[07:33] <stephans> infinity, but you can use it to authenticate linux boxes via ldap. 
[07:34] <stephans> fedora has this utility that can set up you machine to authenticate to ldap hsiod active directory etc.
[07:35] <mdz> that is not the same thing as having a directory server.  that's a directory client, in fact.
[07:36] <stephans> mdz, yes... the client needs a server to authenticat to though, and I would rather not use windows 2003 to authenticate my linux machines
[07:36] <stephans> enter FDS!
[07:37] <stephans> now if that could run on ubuntu, adn ubuntu had a tool to set up the authentication with ... wooo hooo!
[07:37] <stephans> now window and no redhat
[07:37] <mdz> the client side, configuring network authentication, is planned for Ubuntu 6.04
[07:37] <stephans> windows sorry!
[07:37] <stephans> that is dapper?
[07:37] <mdz> correct
[07:38] <stephans> ok
[07:41] <stephans> great... now we have the possibility to authenticate ubuntu desktops to an ubuntu server in a modern way!
[07:42] <stephans> I will go hunting for a groupware server that can talk evolution... 
[07:58] <pitti> ogra: hrm, gobby in main??? this piece of cr^Wwork needing software?
[08:01] <pitti> Mithrandir: ping
[08:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: why is the bootchart udeb empty?
[08:13] <pitti> Burgwork: ping?
[08:14] <pitti> Burgwork: oh, nevermind
[08:15] <desrt> all of the expired signatures are not exported... i suppose this probably makes sense... but i can also no longer download them, either
[08:15] <pitti> Hi desrt 
[08:16] <desrt> hello martin
[08:16] <desrt> something very bad is happening with pgp today and i am trying to figure out what it is :)
[08:16] <Mithrandir> pitti: it shouldn't be.
[08:17] <pitti> -rw-rw-r--  1 archvsync archvsync   1794 Nov 30 16:15 bootchart-udeb_0.9-0ubuntu4_all.udeb
[08:17] <Mithrandir> pitti: 1798 here, but that's approximately correct, yes.
[08:17] <pitti> Mithrandir: well, there's just a startup script and a casper/post.d
[08:17] <Mithrandir> pitti: that's correct.
[08:18] <pitti> Mithrandir: where's the actual binary?
[08:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: binary? :-)
[08:18] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, does it depend on the bootchart.deb?
[08:18] <Mithrandir> pitti: if you want to render something, yes.
[08:18] <Mithrandir> it just does data gathering.
[08:18] <pitti> ah, ok
[08:19] <Mithrandir> so even though it looks tiny, it's ok.
[08:19] <pitti> great :)
[08:19] <pitti> Mithrandir: it's approved now, but it needs to be germinated
[08:19] <Mithrandir> pitti: ok, thanks.  I
[08:19] <Mithrandir> 'll ask Kamion when he's around
[08:20] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh, you can seed it yourself
[08:20] <pitti> bootchart should probably be seeded, not sure about the udeb
[08:21] <Mithrandir> I need to check out how big a hit on the live cd it'll be, and it should possibly be in the installer seed?
[08:21] <Mithrandir> the first for bootchart itself, the latter for -udeb.
[08:39] <pitti> fabbione: I merge the seeds now, so that your printer packages go to {k,edu,server}buntu as well
[08:39] <fabbione> pitti: ah right.. cool thanks
[08:39] <fabbione> reboot timew
[08:39] <fabbione> bbl
[08:39] <fabbione> (hopefully
[08:44] <pitti> wb fabbione 
[08:44] <pitti> fabbione: hmmmm
[08:44] <pitti> fabbione: foo2zjs contains some firmware crap
[08:44] <fabbione> wow
[08:44] <fabbione> impressive
[08:44] <fabbione> everything did work at the first shot!
[08:44] <pitti> fabbione: are you sure that we can redistribute it in main?
[08:45] <fabbione> pitti: well it's in Debian main and it has been for a few months.. 
[08:45] <pitti> hm, ok
[08:45] <fabbione> given -legal paranoid i assume yes
[08:46] <pitti> these binary blobs (*.crd) make the package big...
[08:46] <fabbione> yes i know
[08:46] <fabbione> it's still around 900K
[08:46] <fabbione> that's not too big
[08:54] <pitti> fabbione: min2xxw surprises me, there are not even PPD files in it; I wonder about the magic it does to register in the print system :)
[08:54] <fabbione> pitti: uh?
[08:55] <fabbione> right..
[08:55] <fabbione> probably the ppd are already part of foomatic
[08:55] <fabbione> but it needs the binaries to work
[08:55] <pitti> yes, probably
[09:18] <pitti> Moin mvo
[09:20] <mvo> hi pitti 
[09:21] <jdub> whiprush: ping?
[09:48] <\sh> anyone working on a package for fedora directory server?
[10:00] <slomo_> \sh: afaik no... someone already asked 2 hours ago if there's a ubuntu package he could use
[10:05] <doko> mvo: can you reproduce the aptitude/libsigc++ stuff that mdz reported?
[10:07] <slomo_> elmo: please sync haskell-devscripts from debian/unstable... ubuntu changes can be dropped
[10:08] <mvo> doko: no, but I have the latest apt/aptitude/etc already here. can you reproduce it?
[10:12] <ondrej> hi all, what does it take to promote package from universe to main?
[10:12] <doko> mvo: no
[10:13] <ondrej> I work for ccTLD and it would help a lot to have nsd (alternative authoritative DNS server) in main for Dapper Drake
[10:13] <fabbione> ondrej: there are several steps that needs to be done
[10:14] <fabbione> you need to start searching for a consensum first to see that you are not the only user for it
[10:14] <fabbione> after that you prepare a MainInclusion report on the wiki
[10:14] <fabbione> (assuming there is a consensum)
[10:14] <fabbione> and queue it
[10:14] <fabbione> if all the steps proceed properly it will eventually enter main
[10:16] <ondrej> fabbione: thanks, UbuntuMainInclusionQueue in wiki was exactly what I needed to see :-)
[10:16] <fabbione> ondrej: yes, but you need a consensum first
[10:16] <fabbione> from ubuntu-devel mailing list
[10:17] <ondrej> fabbione: yep, I understand, it's written on that wiki page as well...
[10:18] <ondrej> btw, I am also debian maintainer of that package :-)
[10:18] <fabbione> ondrej: yes :)
[10:18] <fabbione> but for example
[10:18] <fabbione> including another DNS solution in main clashes with another spec to remove pkgs that provide duplication
[10:19] <fabbione> that's why it's important to seek consensum :)
[10:21] <ondrej> ok, that could be a problem, since bind9 and nsd will clash and nsd doesn't provide caching dns server...  I'll write email to u-d will rationale and will see
[10:22] <ondrej> mithrandir: btw, did you sign my key already or still not?
[10:22] <Mithrandir> ondrej: I've forgotten to.
[10:22] <Mithrandir> sorry
[10:26] <ondrej> no prob
[10:28] <Mithrandir> hi daniel
[10:28] <dholbach_> me? :)
[10:28] <Mithrandir> yeah
[10:28] <Mithrandir> good morning, and such
[10:28] <dholbach_> i was here like 4h ago :)
[10:28] <dholbach_> morning tollef :)
[10:28] <Mithrandir> not your IRC client.
[10:28] <Mithrandir> :-P
[10:29] <dholbach_> ME! :)
[10:29] <Mithrandir> or, I just saw you when you rejoined
[10:29] <dholbach_> yeah... the connection dropped! YAY! :)
[10:29] <Mithrandir> heh
[10:29] <dholbach_> how are you?
[10:29] <Mithrandir> trying to find a silly segfault in kbd-chooser, but otherwise good
[10:30] <dholbach_> hm :/
[10:30] <dholbach_> i'll get back to bug triage! fun! :)
[10:31] <Mithrandir> I hate works-by-accident code.
[10:38] <Kamion> Mithrandir: let's put it in the casper seed, not the installer seed
[10:38] <Kamion> Diablo-D3: Mithrandir has been doing that live CD bootchart stuff over the last few days already
[10:38] <Kamion> Diablo-D3: if you haven't already, could you please install the 2.6.15-6 kernel, reinstall pcmciautils, and confirm/deny that the lockup is gone?
[10:39] <ogra> pitti, whats wrong with gobby in main ? 
[10:39] <Kamion> Diablo-D3: if it isn't gone, please *report a bug* rather than using several hundred lines of my #ubuntu-devel scrollback on it, kthxbye :-)
[10:39] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure, either works.
[10:39] <ogra> i warned you beforehand that we decided to have it in edubuntu :)
[10:39] <pitti> ogra: oh, gobby itself :) it's hideously broken...
[10:40] <Kamion> Diablo-D3: because pcmciautils is going to stay in minimal - the packaging/upgrade issues are too difficult to deal with otherwise - so we need to make sure any lockups such as this are fixed
[10:40] <ogra> pitti, nah ... 
[10:41] <ogra> pitti, there would be bugreports about that ;)
[10:41] <pitti> ogra: did you never saw gobbies divert from each other without notice and without chance of merging?
[10:41] <pitti> or the crappy editor?
[10:42] <ogra> pitti, nope
[10:42] <ajmitch> pitti: gobby is a wonderful app ;)
[10:42] <pitti> ogra: then you didn't actually use it :) (just joking)
[10:42] <ogra> it worked fine for me, except the times where someone ran zeroconf in the network
[10:42] <ogra> ;)
[10:42] <ajmitch> it just needs a few 'features' smoothed over
[10:42] <ogra> 0.3.0 will have this ...
[10:43] <ogra> and since debian isnt fast enough in the transition, we'll get it first ... (according to pkern ;) )
[10:44] <ogra> he'll prepare source packages for us
[10:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hmm, I guess we'd have to put it in both for now actually
[10:46] <Kamion> since the initrd's common
[10:46] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it's a whopping 5k hit to the unpacked ram size.
[10:56] <slomo_> elmo: please sync cln and haskell-devscripts from debian/unstable, ubuntu changes can be dropped... thanks :)
[11:18] <tepsipakki> kamion: is the installer broken until 20051026ubuntu3 hits the archive?
[11:18] <tepsipakki> I'm having all sorts of weird errors now ;)
[11:18] <tepsipakki> using latest daily
[11:19] <Kamion> tepsipakki: see topic
[11:19] <Kamion> we mean it
[11:20] <tepsipakki> oh
[11:20] <Kamion> 20051026ubuntu3 may be broken too, I cannot guarantee anything much at the moment
[11:21] <Kamion> for the next day or three, it's going to be more efficient for me to encounter the issues myself than to walk other people through how to fix them :)
[11:21] <ogra> hmm, i removed kino from the edubuntu seeds and metapackages, why does it still show up in my cdimage report.html ?
[11:21] <tepsipakki> that's ok, I'll try again after my vacation
[11:21] <ogra> oh
[11:21] <ogra> Kamion, cdbuilds stopped ? 
[11:22] <Kamion> ogra: yes
[11:22] <ogra> hmm, intentional i guess ..
[11:22] <Kamion> deliberately
[11:22] <Kamion> it should be obvious why if you stop to think about it :)
[11:22] <ogra> yup 
[11:22] <Kamion> (it's not going to work *anyway*, why bother building them ...)
[11:22] <ogra> wasnt just fast enough .... my fingers were faster ;)
[11:23] <Kamion> #ubuntu-devel benefits from thought *before* typing. :-)
[11:23] <ogra> heh
[11:28] <netdur> in case you don't know... this is very cool to point http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6104490811311898236&q=
[11:40] <netdur> is there any plan for enterprise edition of ubuntu?
[11:42] <hunger> netdur: People are working on a server edition.
[11:43] <hunger> netdur: #ubuntu-server is the channel of that subproject.
[11:44] <netdur> I don't have problem with server... I installed ldap and sambe services on ubuntu server, it's joy and easy to do
[11:44] <\sh> uh...apache 2.2.0 released
[11:44] <HiddenWolf> so what would you consider enterprise material?
[11:45] <netdur> the problem about to set ubuntu as client to active directory, exchange... and set up policy
[11:45] <HiddenWolf> netdur, write some specs. :)
[11:45] <doko> chmj: do you currently on libxt-java?
[11:46] <doko> chmj: do you currently work on libxt-java?
[11:47] <netdur> HiddenWolf, so no one working on that!!! I will write some specs and help myself... just about time ;)
[11:53] <pitti> janimo: ping
[11:56] <janimo> pitti, hey
[11:56] <janimo> thanks for dbh :)
[11:57] <chmj> doko: no, its uploaded 
[11:57] <janimo> you can skip exo if you worry it's not from debian
[11:57] <janimo> it will be shortly
[11:58] <chmj> doko: its ftbfs, I'll fix it a abit later, do you need it ?
[12:04] <doko> chmj: ok I fixed it. btw, the libservlet2.4-java b-d was not merged
[12:05] <chmj> doko: its in universe for some reason 
[12:07] <pitti> janimo: I try to catch up with the list now
[12:08] <pitti> janimo: your reports are fine, but a bit concise
[12:08] <pitti> janimo: I recently created a template for that stuff: MainInclusionReportTemplate
[12:08] <pitti> janimo: if you do more reports, can you please use it?
[12:08] <doko> chmj: please could you request a promotion to main?
[12:10] <chmj> doko: sure 
[12:14] <janimo> pitti, sure I saw the template I'll use that from now
[12:14] <pitti> thank you
[12:14] <janimo> so should I move reports as they are done in the main page?
[12:14] <janimo> right now they're unde xfcemaininclusion
[12:14] <pitti> janimo: why there are so many changes to upstream files (*.html and the like) in the diff.gz?
[12:15] <janimo> hmm which package?
[12:15] <pitti> janimo: yes, please move all reports directly to the main page
[12:15] <fabbione> pitti: how do we look for min12xxw and foo2?
[12:15] <pitti> fabbione: I approved it, and it's seeded, so it's looking good
[12:16] <fabbione> pitti: ok thanks.. i guess we need Kamion to move them around, right?
[12:16] <pitti> fabbione: however, to actually close the bugs, we pro'lly need them in desktop, not only in supported
[12:16] <pitti> fabbione: elmo or Kamion, yes
[12:16] <fabbione> they are in desktop
[12:16] <fabbione> i did seed them in desktop
[12:16] <pitti> oh, ok
[12:16] <ogra> dholbach, thanks for the atomix update :)
[12:16] <fabbione> if you didn't change it, they are there :)
[12:17] <dholbach> de rien
[12:17] <janimo> pitti, which package has the html changes in diff.gz?
[12:17] <pitti> janimo: exo
[12:17] <janimo> ah, skip exo for now then, it came not from sid
[12:17] <janimo> debian has an older version, when it catches up
[12:17] <janimo> we'll sync that and that will be cleaner
[12:18] <pitti> hmkay
[12:18] <pitti> janimo: shall I move it to the 'needs work' queue then? (for now)
[12:18] <mvo> is anyone else seeing "dlopen: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libGLcore.so: undefined symbol: __glXLastContext
[12:18] <mvo> " in his Xorg.0.log with the latest xorg packages? it looks like it kills dri for me
[12:19] <fabbione> mvo: what driver are you using?
[12:19] <mvo> fabbione: ati
[12:19] <janimo> pitti, fine
[12:20] <fabbione> mvo: no, not here. but be aware the ati driver is shaky.. there are some bugs that needs to be addressed in the modular tree
[12:20] <mvo> fabbione: hm, I wonder if it is a more general problem, I can't find this symbol outside of xserver-xorg-core (but I haven't greped through all drivers)
[12:21] <fabbione> mvo: actually
[12:21] <fabbione> there is no libGLcore...
[12:21] <fabbione> or at least not on my system
[12:21] <fabbione> meh ok
[12:21] <fabbione> mvo: check /usr/lib/libGLcore.do
[12:21] <fabbione> .so even
[12:22] <fabbione> if the lib is there
[12:22] <fabbione> we are either missing a symlink
[12:22] <fabbione> or it's placed in the wrong position
[12:22] <mvo> no, I don't have it there
[12:22] <janimo> hmm can wiki pages be deleted/renamed?
[12:22] <mvo> I set a symlink and will restart X with it, thanks
[12:23] <pitti> janimo: yes, see 'further actions' menu
[12:23] <pitti> janimo: 'more actions', even
[12:23] <janimo> thanks
[12:24] <mvo> fabbione: no, nothing changed
[12:25] <fabbione> mvo: weird.. hold on
[12:25] <fabbione> i am in the middle of a distupgrade... and can't isntall strings and stuff like that
[12:25] <fabbione> grep __glXLastContext libGLcore.so 
[12:25] <fabbione> Binary file libGLcore.so matches
[12:25] <fabbione> this is on ppc
[12:26] <mvo> sure, I'll poke around a bit more on my own and keep you updated (I'm on amd64)
[12:26] <fabbione> ok
[12:26] <janimo> pitti, I think that works only in tha launchpad wiki, not the ubuntu one, as I cannot see 'more actions' here
[12:26] <pitti> janimo: it's there, I moved pages in the past
[12:26] <mvo> fabbione: $ grep __glXLastContext /usr/lib/libGLcore.so
[12:26] <mvo> Binary file /usr/lib/libGLcore.so matches
[12:26] <mvo> interessting ...
[12:26] <pitti> mvo: btw, I greatly miss aptitude for over a week now :(
[12:27] <mvo> pitti: you do? why?
[12:27] <pitti> mvo: it's uninstallable because of libsigc++-2.0-0c2a
[12:27] <janimo> pitti, oh I see it now,was in edit mode.sorry for the nois
[12:27] <fabbione> mvo: yes. it matches here too
[12:27] <mvo> pitti: oh, so you get thesame error as mdz
[12:27] <fabbione> grep __glXLastContext libGLcore.so.xlibmesa 
[12:27] <fabbione> Binary file libGLcore.so.xlibmesa matches
[12:27] <fabbione> amd64
[12:27] <pitti> mvo: I mainly use it for the automatic dependency removal
[12:28] <mvo> pitti: ok, let's debug it
[12:47] <Kamion> hmm ... oh yeah, x86 assembler won't build very well on powerpc
[12:50] <doko> pitti: do you have a hint, why it's uninstallable?
[12:50] <pitti> doko: yes, gtkmm and workrave need to be rebuilt for the new C++ transition
[12:51] <dholbach> gtkmm2.4 is done
[12:51] <dholbach> gtkmm is *OLD*
[12:51] <dholbach> and workrave doesnt use it
[12:51] <dholbach> but i can rebuild workrave, if you want
[12:51] <doko> dholbach: the merge report is still open
[12:52] <dholbach> doko: the merge is senseless, but yes, i'll do it
[12:52] <dholbach> doko: thanks for reminding me
[12:52] <pitti> dholbach: hm, there seems to be a problem with gtkmm2.4
[12:53] <pitti> dholbach: it apparently uses libsigc++-2.0-0c2
[12:53] <pitti> dholbach: and aptitude wants libsigc++-2.0-0c2a
[12:53] <dholbach> errrr
[12:53] <pitti> dholbach: so a mere rebuild should help
[12:54] <dholbach> it uses libsigc++-2.0-0ca (>=2.0.2)
[12:54] <dholbach> at my place
[12:54] <seb128__> dholbach: maybe you have a local build and the archive version
[12:54] <dholbach> just one version here... hmm
[12:55] <dholbach> do you all have libgtkmm-2.4-1c2a of version 2.8.1-0ubuntu3?
[12:55] <dholbach> or am i the only one? :)
[12:56] <seb128__> same version here
[12:56] <dholbach> and i built gnomemm and gnomeuimm against it
[12:56] <dholbach> so i have no idea what the problem is
[12:56] <dholbach> but i'll poke at the merge and workrave
[12:58] <pitti> dholbach: right, I have both the c2 and c2a versions of gtkmm
[12:58] <pitti> dholbach: so it seems that just workrave still depends on the c2 ones
[12:58] <dholbach> ah ok
[12:59] <pitti> dholbach: same for inkscape
[12:59] <pitti> dholbach: thank you
[12:59] <dholbach> pitti: ajmitch did inkscape
[01:00] <seb128> I've planned an inkscape upload for other change anyway so there will be a new upload
[01:01] <dholbach> you mean another one? ;)
[01:02] <seb128> ?
[01:02] <dholbach> it was already transitioned... nevermind me :)
[01:03] <seb128> I don't upload it for the transition ;)
[01:04] <dholbach> seb128: yeah - somebody else should do that crazy c++ stuff, right? ;)
[01:05] <seb128> there is no cpp stuff to do, you said that's already done ;)
[01:05] <seb128> anyway, time for lunch
[01:05] <seb128> bbl
[01:06] <dholbach> seb128: bon apptit
[01:10] <ogra> WTH
[01:11] <ogra> error opening security policy file /usr/lib/xserver/SecurityPolicy
[01:11] <ogra> whats that ?? 
[01:11] <Treenaks> a trojan!
[01:11] <ogra> Treenaks, :p
[01:12] <ogra> ah, it moved from /etc/X11/xserver/SecurityPolicy :)
[01:19] <sebest_> Ubuntu 4 Servers, anyone?
[01:19] <sebest_> this project could make a very good web interface for ubuntu servers: http://ebox-platform.com
[01:21] <Mithrandir> doko: it seems the newer libjaxp1.2-java breaks xml-crimson builds..
[01:22] <Mithrandir> doko: want to take a look?
[01:23] <doko> Mithrandir: later
[01:24] <Tm_T> sebest_: hmm, looks interesting
[01:24] <sebest_> Tm_T, yes i also think so, and the developper documentation is good to write new module
[01:26] <fabbione> sebest_: you can join and look at the topic on #ubuntu-serve
[01:26] <fabbione> +r
[01:26] <fabbione> #ubuntu-server
[01:26] <sebest_> Fabbione, ok
[01:26] <dholbach> and package ebox :)
[01:26] <fabbione> that too :)
[01:27] <Tm_T> sebest_: no pressure, just package it ;)
[01:27] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I've added bootchart-udeb to the installer and casper seeds
[01:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: thanks
[01:29] <sebest_> hi dholbach :)
[01:29] <sebest_> it's already packaged for debian
[01:29] <dholbach> oh cool
[01:29] <sebest_> http://ebox-platform.com/download
[01:29] <dholbach> but it should be in the distro
[01:29] <dholbach> :)
[01:29] <sebest_> it was developped on debian, so it won't be too hard to get it working on ubuntu i guess
[01:30] <sebest_> dholbach, yes it should ;) what is needed?
[01:30] <zakame> hi :D
[01:31] <dholbach> sebest_: somebody should talk to the maintainers of those packages and ask, if they were willing to notify us of new package and some of us sponsor the uploads (if they don't want to become motus temselves)
[01:31] <seb128> elmo: please sync gnome-python 2.12.2-2 from Debian incoming
[01:32] <sebest_> dholbach, i can contact the author, should i cc to some list?
[01:33] <ogra_> dholbach: they have a livecd .... guessing this is based on ubuntu they might already have ubuntu ready packages
[01:34] <Mithrandir> hmm, it seems like jakarta-log4j1.2 can build fine without xml-crimson, and apart from the build-dependency, libcrimson-java-doc is seeded as supported.  Can we just chuck that out of main?
[01:34] <dholbach> ogra_: afaik koke works on this too
[01:34] <dholbach> ogra_: it's a matter of gettint that stuff in
[01:34] <ogra_> ah, yeah, i thik he blogged it a while ago
[01:34] <dholbach> yeah
[01:35] <koke> I think it's tested on ubuntu too
[01:35] <koke> I'm not part of the eBox team but they are in the same room :)
[01:36] <dholbach> ah koke :)
[01:36] <dholbach> ogra: you're grumbling too much
[01:36] <ogra> dholbach, i see to many bugs currently ....
[01:37] <dholbach> grumbling doesn't help
[01:37] <ogra> xorg doesnt work at all on thin clients... and it seems xauth is totally broken
[01:37] <koke> sebest_: now the team is here :)
[01:37] <isaac> lol
[01:38] <ogra> koke, upload to revu !
[01:39] <koke> I think I'm not in the revu keyring yet
[01:39] <sebest_> koke, hi ;)
[01:39] <sebest_> no need for the mail so :)
[01:41] <ogra> koke, afaik you get in automatically with your first upload ... but i might be wrong, siretart will know ...
[01:41] <ogra> s/upload/signed upload/
[01:43] <koke> mmm, anyway I don't have my key here
[01:43] <koke> btw, ebox may break current installations, it's meant to be installed in a dedicated server
[01:43] <ogra> yes, i read that 
[01:43] <koke> s/installations/configurations/
[01:43] <Yagisan> ogra: siretart had to manually add me, so koke may need to ping siretart to be added
[01:44] <koke> and it needs patching some packages like posfix and gconf
[01:44] <ogra> do you have a debconf warning in the package about that ? so the user knows ? 
[01:45] <Kamion> argh not more debconf notes
[01:45] <ogra> Kamion, so it should just silently break the users system ? 
[01:45] <isaac> ogra: it shouldn't be installed in any user system
[01:45] <Kamion> no, it shouldn't break the user's system at all :P debconf notes aren't an excuse for bugs
[01:45] <isaac> except a dedicated one
[01:46] <Kamion> in that case it should require special action to enable, not just installing the package
[01:46] <Kamion> ogra: also, this is what /usr/share/doc/ebox is for
[01:46] <ogra> ah, yes, better ...
[01:49] <Mithrandir> chmj: I'm doing a jakarta-log4j upload now to fix the FTBFS.
[01:52] <raphink> :)
[02:00] <ogra> Kamion, my orinoco card works !!!!
[02:01] <Kamion> good stuff
[02:01] <ogra> yeah :)
[02:01] <koke> I think I'll upload eBox to revu this weekend
[02:01] <freeflying> raphink:  how about your new kernel
[02:02] <Kamion> ogra: you want to close the bug? (I'm assuming you didn't start cardmgr this time :-))
[02:02] <ogra> yup
[02:02] <ogra> only pccardd is running
[02:02] <ogra> will close it
[02:02] <Kamion> (pccardd is a kernel thread)
[02:02] <ogra> yup..
[02:03] <ogra> but its the only output of "ps ax|grep card" ;)
[02:03] <Kamion> right, you get one pccardd per socket I believe
[02:03] <ogra> yup
[02:05] <ogra> closed ...
[02:05] <Kamion> hmm, gfxboot seems to do precisely nothing
[02:05] <ogra> with the patches included already ?
[02:05] <Kamion> yes, obviously
[02:06] <Kamion> tracing indicates that it gets to the start of get_gfx_file and then falls out without hitting any more tracers; I'll have to add some more tracing I guess
[02:13] <jordi> Kamion: is the date format mm/dd/yyyy something from the US, or is it common in Britain as well?
[02:14] <Kamion> jordi: that's the US abortion of a date format
[02:14] <Kamion> jordi: UK uses dd/mm/yyyy
[02:14] <jordi> I think it's only a US brainfart, but just checking
[02:14] <jordi> ah, thanks. :)
[02:34] <mvo> elmo: please sync libmpeg3 from debian (override ok)
[02:34] <zyga> hey mvo
[02:34] <mvo> hey zyga 
[02:39] <zyga> does anyone have contact with tango-project.org upstream?
[02:39] <ogra> zyga, dholbach i think
[02:44] <sladen> oooh, debtags causes  glibc: free() invalid pointer... funky
[02:46] <enrico> sladen: gah, I have no time to debug it now :(
[02:46] <enrico> sladen: but please keep me posted on it, I might have more time in a few days
[02:47] <aigarius> could someone please approve my email to ubuntu-devel regarding "HomeUserBackup Feature Specification" ?
[02:48] <janimo> aigarius, aren't you subscribed?
[02:49] <aigarius> janimo, no, I never have been :)
[02:49] <janimo> try gmane/nntp if you don't want to subscribe then
[02:50] <janimo> admins, approving non-subscriber mails just doesn't scale :)
[02:50] <aigarius> aren't messages coming in via news gateway moderated too?
[02:52] <janimo> yes, but you confirm once to gmane and you're done
[02:52] <janimo> and you don't get you rinbox filled either
[02:58] <mvo> elmo: please sync mpeg2dec from debian (override ok)
[02:59] <aigarius> janimo: well there is the same option in mailman - just tick a box while approving the first message and all further messages from this email will be approved automatically
[03:01] <janimo> yes, but that is doen by an operator, while gamne does it automated
[03:07] <sivang> aigarius: why don't you subscribe then?
[03:08] <aigarius> sivang, because I am not really an Ubuntu developer?
[03:08] <Mithrandir> doko: would you mind if we removed libcrimson-java-doc from supported and kicked xml-crimson out of main?
[03:09] <sivang> aigarius: well, not all of the people are sub'd there are ubuntu developers per se, you could sub there if you are interested in any of the discussions there. Anyway, I'm the HomeUserBackup asignee - what feedback do you bring ? :)
[03:09] <jbailey> pitti: There?
[03:10] <pitti> jbailey: yes, good morning
[03:10] <sivang> janimo: ?
[03:10] <sivang> pitti: Hey Martin
[03:10] <jbailey> pitti: At some point I think we might have selinux questions for you.  
[03:10] <janimo> aigars is author of sbackup
[03:10] <jbailey> doko: ^^ ?
[03:10] <pitti> jbailey: uh, oh, toss them to ajmitch :)
[03:11] <sivang> janimo: oh :-D , I had no idea
[03:11] <pitti> jbailey: I used grsecurity, but never SELinux, since it was a PITA to setup in the past
[03:11] <doko> Mithrandir: looks ok, no rdepends.
[03:13] <sladen> s/driver/input/
[03:14] <aigarius> I just subscribed, waited a minute and resent my email, but still got the same "your email is held for moderation" reply
[03:15] <sivang> aigarius: were you planning to add external device backup to sbackup ?
[03:15] <sivang> aigarius: (e.g, CDRW/CDR/USB..)
[03:15] <aigarius> sivang, jep. it actually is very simple given the sbackup architecture
[03:16] <aigarius> sivang, I even had the glade files for the gui in my original spec :)
[03:17] <sivang> aigarius: wow cool, then it seems there is not much point in trying to implement my spec - there is only one thing I am currently thinking of in order to merge our two specs
[03:18] <aigarius> sivang: please take a look at http://sbackup.sourceforge.net . I am trying to make a braindump of my ideas about backup there. you could help with you ideas.
[03:19] <sivang> aigarius: if you could take the "Simple Mode" ideas from my spec , and incorporate them into a "simple mode" available in sbackup , and running by default. that would rock
[03:21] <sivang> aigarius: the simple mode operation will do all what I specified in my spec as a default, e.g. backup ONLY home directories, be default exclude all media content, and use the CDRW/CDR/USB as I described there. it seems it wouldn't require too much additional work, as you say you have most of the infra. in plac.e
[03:22] <aigarius> my email finally got trhough to the list, please read it
[03:22] <sivang> aigarius: I will sure do. thank you
[03:26] <dholbach> elmo: do you what happened to my corrected version of gnome-web-photo?
[03:28] <Kamion> dholbach: it's in NEW
[03:28] <mvo> doko: does https://launchpad.net/products/gnubash/+bug/5120 look ok to you?
[03:29] <dholbach> Kamion: elmo asked me to do a tiny change to it, i did it and reuploaded (with new version number and .orig.tar.gz) but it was rejected, since the .orig.tar.gz was already there
[03:30] <Kamion> was the second .orig.tar.gz different?
[03:30] <dholbach> i shouldn't think so
[03:30] <dholbach> oh well, if it's in NEW, i'll just wait
[03:31] <Kamion> dholbach: just reupload without -sa
[03:31] <dholbach> ok
[03:31] <dholbach> merci Kamion 
[03:31] <Kamion> dholbach: 0.1.1-0ubuntu1 is in NEW; if elmo asked you to make a change to it I doubt it'll get out of NEW until that change is made
[03:31] <dholbach> understood, thanks Kamion 
[03:31] <elmo> no, it was a trivial change, it can get out of NEW as is, I just haven't had a chance to do that yet
[03:32] <dholbach> elmo: take your time... i just thought i had done something wrong
[03:32] <Kamion> surprised you didn't get the reject message though - you were using an @ubuntu.com address so it should've been whitelisted
[03:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: can I just unseed libcrimson-java-doc or is there somewhere I should raise discussion about it?
[03:33] <dholbach> Kamion: i got the reject message, that's why i asked
[03:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: if nothing uses the main binary, it's fine to unseed under the general banner of reducing-duplication
[03:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ook.
[03:34] <elmo> Kamion: I didn't reject it
[03:34] <elmo> oh that reject, neer mind me
[03:34] <Kamion> elmo: -0ubuntu2 was rejected
[03:38] <doko> mvo: 127 -> EX_NOTFOUND, but looks ok otherwise
[03:39] <zyga> doko: hi
[03:39] <zyga> doko: that's exactly why 127 was choosen
[03:39] <zyga> doko: so the handler can ask for default action fallback
[03:39] <zyga> (which is: print the message)
[03:40] <sivang> aigarius: still didn't see it, I'll give it some minutes to arrive
[03:40] <aigarius> sivang, I see it in the archive
[03:41] <sivang> aigarius: ok, it arrived now.
[03:43] <pitti> Diziet: ping
[03:43] <Diziet> Hi.
[03:43] <pitti> Hi Ian
[03:43] <pitti> Diziet: a dpkg question
[03:43] <Diziet> Sure.
[03:44] <pitti> Diziet: if package A ships a conffile, and package B Conflicts/Replaces/Provides: A, and ships the same conffile
[03:44] <pitti> Diziet: how is it possible to get a file conflict on upgrading A to B?
[03:44] <pitti> Diziet: I'm asking because of https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20265
[03:45] <Diziet> That sounds wrong to me.
[03:45] <pitti> Diziet: the bug or the dependencies?
[03:45] <Diziet> The bug.
[03:46] <pitti> Diziet: libcupsys2 c/r/p libcupsys2-gnutls << 1.1.23-11
[03:46] <Diziet> That is, if B -c/r/p-> A then A should be removed first.  Now obviously A's conffiles may remain but they ought to be taken over by B.
[03:46] <pitti> and breezy has -10ubuntuN
[03:46] <pitti> so the conffile shouldn't stay in A's file list?
[03:46] <Diziet> This may be related to the `dpkg conffiles bug' which Keybuk said he'd been working on.
[03:47] <Diziet> Yes, the conffile should stay in A's file list until B is unpacked, and then B should end up owning it.
[03:47] <pitti> if I merely remove A, then the conffile certainly stays in its list?
[03:47] <pitti> ah, ok
[03:47] <Diziet> Quite so.
[03:47] <pitti> Diziet: but it doesn't ATM?
[03:47] <Diziet> Um, well, evidently either we don't understand the situation correctly or there is a bug in dpkg.
[03:47] <sivang> Diziet: hey Ian, it seems that sbackup's author ( aigarius ) is going to acutally implement most of what we discussed over HUB spec, and some more. My feeling is that the spec should stay informational if only to give him more ideas to be merged, and doesn't stand on it's own as implementation worthwhile. What is your opinion?
[03:48] <Diziet> I say `should' because I want to describe what it ought to do without reference to the actual behaviour :-).
[03:48] <pitti> Diziet: I don't really want to rm the conffile in -gnutls10's preinst
[03:48] <Diziet> pitti: No, no, don't do that, definitely.
[03:48] <pitti> no, I don't want to stomp over the admin's customizations
[03:48] <Diziet> sivang: Oh, excellent.  sbackup does not a fair amount of work, I think.
[03:48] <pitti> Diziet: ok, thank you; I'll CC Scott on the bug
[03:49] <Diziet> Do.  He said he's got some kind of ADSL problem so do email him.  If you could CC me (iwj@ubuntu.com) that would be good.
[03:49] <sivang> Diziet: you mean, does not (need) a fair a mount of work ? :)
[03:49] <Diziet> Err, I mean it _needs_ a fair amount of work.  Sorry.
[03:49] <Diziet> Provide him with the bugzilla url you just gave me and obviously my offer to help.
[03:50] <Diziet> But I don't think I should start messing with the conffile handling which he said he's fixing.
[03:50] <sivang> Diziet: I will sure do, np :)
[03:50] <mvo> Diziet: did you got my python mozembed problem report? do you have any idea about it? or should I poke around it a bit again?
[03:50] <Diziet> sivang: Err, that instruction with `Provide him with the bugzilla url' was to pitti.
[03:51] <pitti> I read it :)
[03:51] <sivang> Diziet: oh, hehe np at all.
[03:51] <Diziet> sivang: But you can pass on my name to aigarius of course :-).
[03:51] <Diziet> mvo: I have no idea about it.  If you have effort to diagnose it then that would save me the work, otherwise I may or may not get round to it in today's upload.
[03:51] <aigarius> Diziet, me here :)
[03:52] <Diziet> aigarius: Ah, hello :-).  Did you read the HomeUserBackup wiki page we had ?
[03:52] <Diziet> aigarius: Also, you may have seen my bug reports against sbackup in the Debian BTS.
[03:53] <aigarius> Diziet, I have seen the bug reports and will try to make the stuff you mention there, but that wiki page ... I am not sure that there is much usable stuff there
[03:54] <aigarius> Diziet, it assumes that we want to bother the user each and every time that we think a backup should be done, after some time that will gt annoying
[03:54] <Diziet> aigarius: Yes, I think we do want to bother the user.  That is, we bother them once to ask for permission to bother them in future.
[03:55] <aigarius> Diziet, also there is no room for user growth. I think that advanced backup features should be available from the same location as the simple way and as similar as possible
[03:55] <Diziet> aigarius: I think this is needed, really.  You'll have seen all the desperate messages from people who've lost their PhD thesis or their draft novel.
[03:55] <janimo> Diziet, you mentioned yesterday firefox and gnome MIME handling
[03:55] <janimo> does that mean ff will grow gnome lib deps?
[03:55] <Diziet> janimo: Yes.
[03:55] <janimo> :(
[03:55] <Diziet> janimo: Our ff already has gnome lib deps I think.
[03:56] <janimo> the one in breezy did not at least
[03:56] <sivang> Diziet: see also, http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-December/013518.html
[03:56] <janimo> and neither does current ff 1.5
[03:56] <Diziet> janimo: Is that a bad thing ?
[03:56] <SEJeff_work> \sh: ping
[03:56] <janimo> only suggests ff-gnome-support
[03:57] <janimo> Diziet, well it was/is the default browser in xubuntu
[03:57] <janimo> which tries avoiding gnome libs everywhere
[03:57] <Diziet> sivang: No, I hadn't read that yet.  Will do now.
[03:57] <janimo> one gnome lib tends to bring in the rest
[03:58] <janimo> what is exactly used gnome-vfs for mime functions?
[03:58] <seb128> yep
[03:58] <janimo> that's all or deeper gnome-vfs integration is planned?
[03:58] <seb128> which doesn't bring all the UI stuff
[03:59] <janimo> if only local files are looked at, isn;t there some other mime lib? xdgmime or something else?
[03:59] <Diziet> janimo: Just to find the right application to open some content with.
[03:59] <janimo> current firefox scheme is messy?incomplete?
[03:59] <Diziet> Current firefox mime handling is totally insane.
[04:00] <SEJeff_work> totally broken
[04:00] <Diziet> aigarius: Hmm.  I read your posting, but I think we have a different view about these things.  I think backups to the same disk have very limited value.
[04:00] <janimo> does anyone actually use xdgmime (the lib not the spec?)
[04:01] <pitti> does anybody have a breezy box at hand?
[04:01] <janimo> it's a shame bringing in so many deps for just mime matching
[04:01] <seb128> janimo: gnomevfs
[04:01] <Diziet> If dpkg-shlibdeps did the right thing, my package with the uriloader fix just uses libglib2 and libgtk2 (and many other libs not starting libg.)
[04:02] <SEJeff_work> janimo: Could you do something like OO.o native widget framework and "use it if it's available"?
[04:02] <seb128> Diziet: you don't use libgnomevfs2-0 for mime stuff?
[04:02] <aigarius> Diziet, they recover deleted and corrupted files, they are easy to implement, they are completely automated. and power users can use the same backup scheme to backup to a mounted USB drive, another HDD or even a remote server mounted via NFS of FUSE or whatever else that Linux supports.
[04:02] <sivang> aigarius: what about non power users?
[04:02] <siretart> elmo: please sync qjackctl from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes
[04:03] <Diziet> Hard-disk to hard-disk backups can be done easily by the user with nautilus anyway.
[04:03] <Diziet> I think the problem is that you're not addressing the real difficulty with un-backed-up home user systems.
[04:03] <sivang> Diziet: true, a matter of drag-n-drop
[04:03] <Diziet> This is particularly true of laptops.
[04:03] <SEJeff_work> aigarius: I tried sbackup and coudn't get used to it. rsync is a needed feature
[04:03] <aigarius> sivang, they will have automatical daily backups of all important files. you can forget to make a backup by drag and drop. cron will not.
[04:03] <Diziet> seb128: The firefox-gnome-support package appears to depend on libgnomevfs2-0.
[04:03] <dholbach> elmo: can you please sync libfwbuilder from sid (ok to override)
[04:04] <Diziet> seb128: I think the best thing to do would be for me to upload a ff with this patch included and you can tell me whether you hate it.
[04:04] <seb128> Diziet: so this part of the code is probably shipped by this package which makes janimo happy
[04:04] <janimo> seb128, bonobo,gamin,gconf,orbit,libsmb are all vfs deps
[04:04] <aigarius> AND by trivial drag and drop or nautilus CD writer users can archive a selfcontained backup snapshot to any media
[04:04] <seb128> janimo: yeah, what I said, no UI
[04:04] <Diziet> seb128: If so, then yes, but I'm suspicious because I read the patch and it didn't seem to be in the gnome support part.
[04:04] <sivang> aigarius: yes, btw - what about offering to someone to use other backend engine for backups? many people seem to want a frontend solution to use rsync, as is very robust and already proven to work.
[04:05] <uenyioha> question for the not so faint hearted
[04:05] <janimo> seb128, why UI is the largets part of gnome libs?
[04:05] <Diziet> What I would like is for a naive user to be prompted by the system to make backups and for the system to make it as convenient as possible.
[04:05] <ogra> BenC, around ?
[04:05] <BenC> yeah
[04:06] <janimo> if the patch would be just in gnome-support that would be great
[04:06] <seb128> janimo: why? because
[04:06] <uenyioha> is there a flag for ld that specifically tells it to create an x86 library on an amd64 system
[04:06] <BenC> ogra: pong
[04:06] <Diziet> We need to think about the problem not as `how can we add buzzword-tickybox "backup" to our system' but rather `how can we improve many of our users lives by saving them from data loss'.
[04:06] <ogra> i have a prob with ndiswrapper on amd64, i get a lot of ndiswrapper: Unknown symbol x86_64_  output if i try to load the module
[04:06] <janimo> seb128, I meant why, is UI the largets?
[04:06] <sivang> Diziet, aigarius : may we continue this discussion over the mailing list? I have to run now, but I think this discussion is important and interesting.
[04:06] <ogra> BenC, ^^
[04:06] <Diziet> sivang: Right.  I'll see if I can reply later today.
[04:06] <ogra> BenC, is the module not compiled with amd64 support ? 
[04:07] <janimo> wrong wording
[04:07] <BenC> ogra: hmm, we had that before in breezy, and it was the build process, but I was sure I got things right in dapper (I fixed breezy)
[04:07] <Diziet> Err, -2s/users/&'/
[04:07] <aigarius> Diziet, that can be accomplished by doing 3 things with SBackup: ask a question to switch from "no backup" to "recommended backups" on first startup, implement backup to CD, make a montly prompt to the user to write the latest daily backup snapshot to CD or other secure location
[04:07] <BenC> ogra: I'll  get it fixed for -7.9
[04:07] <jbailey> -7.9?
[04:07] <aigarius> Diziet, sivang: sure, lets continue in the mailing list
[04:08] <ogra> BenC, this card never worked, so i dont reallycare, but apparently it shall work in suse sinc ndiswrapper 1.4 so i thought i'd try again...
[04:08] <Diziet> aigarius: I think you really want to look at that HomeUserBackup wiki page for answers to questions about prompt order.  We thought quite carefully about these things.
[04:08] <Kamion> uenyioha: -m elf_i386
[04:08] <jbailey> Are you not resetting the number after the decimal place when you increment ABIs?
[04:08] <Kamion> uenyioha: obviously the objects will have to have been built 32-bit as well
[04:08] <uenyioha> Kamion: yeah...the funny thing is they are
[04:08] <infinity> jbailey : No, the point is to say "7th ABI, 9th upload)
[04:08] <infinity> s/)/"/
[04:09] <uenyioha> Kamion: i was expecting ld to automagically know what to do with them
[04:09] <sivang> Diziet, aigarius : cool thanks.
[04:09] <seb128> janimo: probably, gconf/gamin/gnomevfs are quite small
[04:09] <Kamion> uenyioha: ld defaults to elf_x86_64 emulation on amd64, afaik
[04:09] <jbailey> infinity: Ah, okay. =)
[04:09] <sivang> Diziet: I basically just want to see that we are not dupping any work or reinventing someone else's wheel, before embarking on the implementaion furiously.
[04:09] <Kamion> uenyioha: might be nice, but I don't think it does
[04:09] <janimo> seb128, g-vfs uses a copy of xdgmime right?
[04:09] <janimo> I see also gtk has xdgmime code in it but it doesnot look like it's used
[04:09] <seb128> janimo: correct, as do gtk
[04:09] <Diziet> seb128,janimo: I think there are two sensible answers to this question: 1. wait for my package, which will be uploaded today.  If you don't like it, say so and then we can talk with actual information.   2. I email you the diff that I've applied and you tell me whether you hate it by reading it.
[04:10] <uenyioha> Kamion: yeah that worked like a charm
[04:10] <uenyioha> Kamion: Thanks!
[04:10] <Diziet> I don't think this discussion of abstract possibilities is really going anywhere, is it ?
[04:10] <sivang> anyway /me --> out now.
[04:10] <Diziet> sivang: TTFN
[04:10] <janimo> seb128, is the gtk xdgmime exported to apps?It doesnot look like it is
[04:10] <seb128> Diziet: I'll just wait for your upload and play with it, thanks :)
[04:10] <janimo> and if it is maybe it would be a better match for just mime handling than gnome-vfs
[04:10] <seb128> janimo: gtk doesn't do mime stuff, gnomevfs does
[04:11] <janimo> what does gtk use xdgmime for
[04:11] <janimo> if not mime stuff?
[04:12] <seb128> janimo: probably GTK stuff but no external API to be used by other apps
[04:12] <janimo> Diziet, go ahead with 1
[04:12] <seb128> janimo: like the png loader, etc
[04:12] <janimo> I'll see what I'll do later
[04:12] <Kamion> uenyioha: you're welcome
[04:16] <janimo> is xdgmime considered unworty currently of being actually released and packages as a libary?
[04:16] <janimo> I've seen other uses of it are the same 'copy in the tree' types
[04:23] <seb128> janimo: <mclasen> seb128: the xdgmime api is not really that great, and in fact has changed repeatedly
[04:29] <mdke> elmo, docteam commit access for bhuvan pleeeeeaase :)
[04:37] <Diziet> Can I rely on the URL  http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/releasenotes604  coming into existence when Dapper releases ?
[04:38] <infinity> s/ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu.com/
[04:38] <infinity> We're moving away from the former.
[04:38] <infinity> Or trying.
[04:39] <janimo> seb128, ok I see. So what's the point of it then?Just a testcase for shared-mime-info?
[04:39] <janimo> btw, I looked at memory consumtion of some gnome libs and they're about 3 Mb together.
[04:39] <janimo> those non UI
[04:40] <Diziet> infinity: Thanks, noted.
[04:45] <seb128> janimo: no, it's used by gtk/gnomevfs, but they don't want to depend on a moving API
[04:45] <seb128> janimo: by shipping a copy they are sure they don't break due to some external API changes they have not followed
[04:45] <janimo> aha
[04:46] <seb128> janimo: <mclasen> seb128: we have hesitated for years to put it in glib, because of the "what to do on win32" issue
[04:46] <mdke> Diziet, i think you probably can count on it yes, but it is worth firing an email off to henrik to make sure he's aware of it
[04:46] <janimo> fscking win32
[04:52] <whiprush> jdub: pong
[05:04] <Diziet> mdke: Ta.  I've done so.
[05:05] <xhaker> seb128: care to make a libsexy package for universe?
[05:08] <seb128> xhaker: I can do that, right
[05:09] <pitti_> re
[05:09] <xhaker> seb128: looks like debian doesn't have it.. oh and xchat-gnome can spellcheck if compiled with it
[05:10] <seb128> xhaker: I'm not sure than people want spellchecking their IRC :)
[05:11] <xhaker> seb128: it's the same feature Gaim has
[05:11] <xhaker> seb128: it only highlights possible mistakes
[05:12] <Amaranth> so, uh, does the new g_slice_* stuff in glib means apps will stop holding on to large chunks of unused memory?
[05:12] <mdke> people don't take enough care of their grammar on IRC these days
[05:12] <xhaker> not sure if it uses aspell tho.. but i should
[05:12] <xhaker> it*
[05:13] <seb128> xhaker: I think that people doesn't try to make 0 mistake when using IRC, but maybe that's just me :)
[05:13] <seb128> mdke: no only the grammar
[05:14] <mdke> disgusting
[05:14] <seb128> s/no/not/
[05:14] <xhaker> mdke: lol
[05:15] <Kamion> mdke: (shouldn't that be "take ... care about", anyway?)
[05:15] <Kamion> (as opposed to ensuring that your grammar is properly fed)
[05:15] <mdke> yeah
[05:15] <xhaker> mdke: spellcheck happens on the editbox only i think :P
[05:15] <seb128> xhaker: anyway, I'll package the lib, which was the topic
[05:15] <seb128> or get dholbach to package it :)
[05:16] <xhaker> thanks
[05:16] <seb128> np
[05:19] <ogra> invitation *g*
[05:19] <xhaker> wasabi_ the wise
[05:24] <janimo> pitti, how will packages which are not germinated getting in main afer approved?
[05:24] <janimo> the xfce ones are not in any CD build
[05:24] <pitti> janimo: they either need to be seeded, or be a dependency of other packages
[05:24] <pitti> janimo: i. e. you would seed the core components, and this would draw in the libraries
[05:25] <janimo> pitti, yes but the seeds xfce is in are not build by Kamion/Riddell
[05:25] <janimo> so I am afraid they won't get in anastacia
[05:25] <pitti> hmm
[05:25] <pitti> this almost cries for a new set of seeds
[05:25] <janimo> they may eventually, but not yet
[05:26] <pitti> alternatively we would just seed xubuntu-desktop in supported
[05:26] <janimo> I am keepeng them outside ~cjwatson/seeds
[05:26] <janimo> ah that's a good idea
[05:31] <Kamion> janimo: that will be sorted out eventually
[05:31] <Kamion> once there's a reasonable set of xfce stuff approved, it can trivially be added to anastacia's output
[05:31] <janimo> nice, thanks
[05:32] <Kamion> putting xubuntu-desktop in the Ubuntu supported seed isn't something I want to do
[05:32] <janimo> right
[05:32] <janimo> I was wondering isn's supported common to ubuntu/kubuntu just like minimal
[05:32] <janimo> ?
[05:33] <janimo> and only desktop/ship different?
[05:33] <dholbach> seb128: package it?
[05:33] <janimo> dholbach, he meant libsexy
[05:33] <dholbach> what uses it already?
[05:33] <Kamion> janimo: no
[05:34] <dholbach> janimo: what uses it already?
[05:34] <Kamion> janimo: minimal and standard are common for technical reasons (can't do per-derivative priorities)
[05:34] <dholbach> janimo: or just to hack with it?
[05:34] <janimo> so isn't 'supported' seed == supported by canonical
[05:34] <wasabi_> So what's this libsexy control that makes IP entry possible?
[05:34] <Kamion> janimo: it used to be
[05:34] <janimo> dholbach,dunno, but that's what he was talking about 
[05:34] <janimo> with xhacker I think
[05:34] <dholbach> janimo: thanks
[05:35] <Kamion> janimo: current definition is that everything in main is supported
[05:36] <slomo> pitti: regarding XSP... it's possible to package this script in a different sourcepackage or include it somewhere else but we would differ greatly from debian. what are your concerns moving the sourcepackage and mono-xsp-base (which in fact is only the debhelper script) to main and leaving everything else in universe?
[05:36] <janimo> later
[05:37] <pitti> slomo: as soon as the source is in main, it is supported
[05:37] <pitti> slomo: including the universe debs it builds
[05:37] <pitti> slomo: we can slack a little with updates, but everybody can grab the source from main and build stuff
[05:38] <pitti> slomo: and I wouldn't like to keep up with fixing the xsp server for 5 years just for the debhelper script
[05:38] <slomo> pitti: oh, i thought we would only support the binary packages in main :/ ok, i think it's the best then to move the script to mono-utils or in a separate source package
[05:38] <pitti> slomo: does that sound totally stupid for you?
[05:38] <slomo> pitti: me neither... xsp itself isn't ready for supporting in any way yet
[05:39] <pitti> slomo: does xsp-base depend on any package in main that would be suitable to ship the script?
[05:39] <pitti> slomo: a separate source apckage just for a single debhelper script seems pretty heavy for me
[05:40] <slomo> pitti: well, the best would be mono for the time beeing... it was there in the past
[05:40] <pitti> slomo: maybe Debian can be convinced to do the same...
[05:41] <pitti> if not, is the delta very big?
[05:41] <pef> hello
[05:42] <Nafallo> what's the policy with transitional packages from warty to hoary? keep them until warty isn't supported anymore?
[05:43] <slomo> pitti: not too big... only some new files... i'll talk to debian later and if they want to keep it that way prepare to ship it with mono for dapper. or we could just stop shipping the monodoc-http package for dapper, tseng and me don't think it's very useful anyway... i'll think about it
[05:44] <Nafallo> ooh. it's already gone in dapper, never mind then :-).
[05:44] <pitti> slomo: I'd love you if we just shipped the standalone browser and put doc-http to universe :)
[05:45] <tseng> pitti: the source needs xsp as a build dep
[05:45] <tseng> because of the stupid script
[05:45] <tseng> whether the binary goes to universe or not (which i advocate already)
[05:45] <slomo> pitti: the standalone browser is in universe atm btw ;) it's the mono-utils package. but i think we should get it into main for dapper
[05:46] <tseng> it would probably be pretty easy to put dh_installxsp into the monodoc source
[05:48] <slomo> tseng: or we could just do what dh_installxsp does by hand... should be even easier... the results are no black magic
[05:48] <tseng> yes
[05:49] <slomo> tseng: but i think we should write a main inclusion report for mono-tools soon... (which will pull nunit into main too)
[05:49] <slomo> tseng: currently monodoc is pretty useless without the standalone browser
[05:49] <tseng> sigh, nunit
[05:49] <tseng> just wait until something depends on a feature in the novell forked version
[05:50] <xhaker> dholbach: libsexy -> xchat-gnome "can" use it for stuff like spellcheck and url highlighting
[05:50] <BenC> can anyone see a reason for enabling USB network devices for our server class kernel?
[05:50] <eruin> does anyone know when mvo is usually around?
[05:50] <BenC> IMO, I can't think of anything we need USB for servers other than HID/kbd/mouse and mass-storage
[05:51] <dholbach> xhaker: nice
[05:51] <pitti> BenC: hmm, when you want to allow using USB drives on a server (*shudder*), why forbid USB network cards?
[05:51] <tseng> BenC: i could easily imagine someone wanting to build a "server" out of some beat up old beige box and hanging on a usb wifi thingy
[05:51] <xhaker> dholbach: that's what i thought :P
[05:52] <tseng> for connectivity only or to act as a hacker-type's AP
[05:52] <pitti> BenC: as tseng says; my kitchen server needs USB wireless, too :)
[05:52] <BenC> this isn't "I call it a server because it runs apache", this is "8-way NUMA" system type servers
[05:52] <dholbach> xhaker: i saw it in blogs, just wasnt sure what you and seb were talking about
[05:52] <BenC> high-end
[05:52] <pitti> BenC: these things are usually driven with an USB mouse? (serious question)
[05:53] <BenC> pitti: PC's, I suspect yes...it's not like an ultrasparc where serial console is the prefered method of accessing it :)
[05:53] <BenC> probably doesn't need a mouse, but USB keyboard for sure
[05:53] <Kamion> the mouse is generally not the first thing you spec about such a box - you might well just plug in whatever's lying around the server room
[05:54] <Kamion> (on the rare occasions that you'd need it)
[05:54] <BenC> yeah, I'm including HID stack just because being able to connect a keyboard is desirable
[05:55] <BenC> so does USB drives sound crazy? Maybe they connect USB dvd burners for backups (who knows), just mass storage seemed like a decent requirement
[05:56] <BenC> but USB networking seemed kind of like using a go cart wheel on a race car
[05:56] <xhaker> BenC: better off asking those things to some datacenters
[05:56] <xhaker> some kind of survey
[05:56] <pitti> BenC: hm, you probably don't worry about the memory requirements; do you think they make the system potentially unstable?
[05:56] <tseng> xhaker: im sitting in a data center
[05:57] <xhaker> tseng: good. help him out :P lol
[05:57] <BenC> pitti: I just want to trim down our requirements for that kernel
[05:57] <pitti> ah
[05:57] <BenC> if I say "USB network devices are ok", then we open ourselves up to requests for whacked out external drivers
[05:58] <pitti> right, they shouldn't be on such a box
[05:58] <BenC> and supporting high-end servers is going to be hard enough without adding a $30 Walmart USB wireless device to the list :)
[05:58] <torkel> BenC: or usb floppies, or... but usb network nah...
[05:58] <pitti> torkel: right, in the end the guys want automounting USB devices :)
[05:59] <BenC> main thing is for the server kernel, we want to support configurations that come from the vendors
[05:59] <BenC> and not a whole lot else
[06:00] <BenC> but common add-ons need to be supported if they make sense
[06:00] <tseng> watch out for the bong when you get to Dell raid controllers
[06:00] <doko> how do I add a custom field to a control file. dpkg-gencontrol seens to strip the additional field name, even if it starts with X-, which should be allowed: dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown information field `C1 X-Foo-Bar' in input data in package's section of control info file
[06:01] <torkel> pitti: we want to netboot everything, including bios upgrades :-)
[06:01] <siretart> BenC: is prism2_cs known to be broken?
[06:01] <BenC> tried hostap_cs instead?
[06:02] <pitti> OMG, somebody wrote a main inclusion report for fam
[06:02] <BenC> hostap has some overlap with a few external drivers that we had in breezy, and I need to figure out where that overlap is
[06:02] <torkel> pitti: and everything should be remotely controlled. We never ever want to go down to the machine room, it's too hot and noisy in there :-)
[06:02] <siretart> BenC: hm. both seem to be loaded
[06:03] <pitti> torkel: my own server is 800 km away from me, so my kernel has nothing but the bare minimum either
[06:03] <siretart> and I cannot rmmod prism2_cs, because it is in use (wtf?)
[06:03] <BenC> tseng: second phase is to get vendors to allow us to distribute their raid tools and such
[06:03] <tseng> oh!
[06:06] <Kamion> doko: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s5.7 describes how to make it work
[06:07] <siretart> BenC: is that prism2_cs breakage known or shall I file a bugzilla?
[06:07] <BenC> siretart: file a bug please
[06:08] <BenC> siretart: try blacklisting prism2_cs so hostap_cs can take over
[06:08] <BenC> rmmod both, and then modprobe hostap_cs
[06:08] <siretart> hm
[06:11] <doko> Kamion: thanks
[06:12] <eruin> Conflicts: hotplug (<< 0.0.20040105-1)
[06:12] <eruin>  <- hotplug no longer necessary for 2.6.15?
[06:12] <Kamion> eruin: indeed
[06:12] <eruin> exciting ;)
[06:15] <Kamion> hmm, debian-installer 20051026ubuntu3 still won't work, oh well
[06:15] <Kamion> next daily build of it will hopefully wrk
[06:15] <Kamion> work
[06:34] <jbailey> Kamion: Has ther ebeen any installer fallout so far from the locales transition?
[06:34] <Kamion> jbailey: haven't rebuilt localechooser yet ...
[06:35] <jbailey> Ah, okay.
[06:35] <Kamion> at the moment I'm wading through the fallout from the kernel/udev transition, and won't be able to see the locales transition until I'm on the other side, really
[06:37] <jbailey> 'kay.  As long as you're not feeling abandoned and unloved by Martin and me. =)
[06:50] <mkrufky> hey.... what package do i need in order to install sox?
[06:50] <mkrufky> sorry if the question  is OT
[06:50] <mkrufky> but apt-get says sox is referenced by another package, and apt-cache finds nothing
[07:01] <\sh> re
[07:06] <Diziet> mvo: I'm just picking up investigating that ff python crash now.  I'll see how far I get.
[07:22] <doko> Diziet: which architecture?
[07:25] <sabdfl> hi all
[07:25] <sabdfl> how's dapper right now?
[07:25] <sabdfl> i have a few minutes, and wondered if it was worth updating
[07:25] <sabdfl> has the new kernel stuff landed, and is it roughly working?
[07:25] <sabdfl> mdz: ping ^^
[07:26] <JanC> it's roughly working for some people AFAIK  :)
[07:26] <mdz> sabdfl: see topic
[07:26] <dholbach> it is roughly working, the really bad trouble is over :)
[07:26] <sabdfl> ah, bugrit, why not
[07:26] <sabdfl> it's a long drive to ft collins
[07:26] <mdz> sabdfl: if you're already on 2.6.15 and you know that that works well, you can try it
[07:26] <dholbach> JanC: i'm one of the lucky guys then :)
[07:26] <mdz> sabdfl: it's a long drive without Internet ;-)
[07:26] <minghua> kernel is not bad, yesterday I booted into 2.6.15 the first time
[07:27] <sabdfl> mdz: no internet till monday, likely
[07:27] <Diziet> doko: i386.  Why ?
[07:27] <doko> Diziet: need to fix an amd64 issue, but thats amd64 only
[07:28] <sabdfl> mdz: hmm... why is linux-image-2.6.15-5-686 not available?
[07:28] <mdz> sabdfl: because it's been superseded by -6
[07:28] <sabdfl> i just did an update
[07:29] <JanC> BenC: I would say that people who need USB networking for their server can as well use a "normal" kernel on their "server" (which would likely be a home server/router with usb wireless or something like that)?
[07:29] <mdz> mizar:[/var/log/cups]  apt-cache show linux-image-2.6.15-6-686 |head -1
[07:29] <mdz> Package: linux-image-2.6.15-6-686
[07:29] <BenC> JanC: that's my thinking too
[07:31] <Diziet> doko: `an amd64 issue' ?
[07:31] <BenC> sabdfl: it's not as bad as people make it sound, I have latest dapper + 2.6.15 on 6 machines here, and they aren't smoking that bad, and I've only lost one harddrive :)
[07:31] <Diziet> If you need me to fix it now would be a good time.  I'm currently test-building my latest edits.
[07:32] <mdz> sabdfl: you aren't in ft. collins yet?
[07:32] <sabdfl> mdz: no. headed there shortly
[07:33] <mdz> BenC: I had a strange issue with a firewire hard drive last night
[07:33] <mdz> it showed up as 4 separate direct-access storage devices, all of which were inaccessible (no medium found)
[07:34] <BenC> mdz: that is pretty odd
[07:34] <mdz> I was told it worked fine on a Mac running 9.3
[07:34] <Simira> hmm... how bad is it when London is rainy? Like, wearing army boots, or just solid shoes? The forecast says showers for all the four days we are staying there... anyone?
[07:34] <BenC> mdz: I pulled in the ieee1394.git that -mm uses, but without that it's pretty broken for a lot of people anyway
[07:34] <mdz> Simira: reasonable shoes and an umbrella
[07:34] <mdz> BenC: this was on a breezy system
[07:35] <BenC> mdz: Oh, understandable then :)
[07:35] <mdz> I had success with a firewire dvd-rom at some point in the distant past, like hoary
[07:35] <mdz> on the same machine
[07:35] <mdz> (desktop G4)
[07:35] <BenC> yeah, it's just a few types of sbp2 devices
[07:36] <BenC> my G4 firewire is working fine with 2.6.15, never tried it with 2.6.12 though
[07:36] <BenC> 250gig LaCie drive
[07:37] <Simira> mdz : ok, thanks. "Showers" means a lot more in Norwegian...
[07:37] <xhaker> sabdfl: something you wanted to know about gtkwifi in ubuntu forums?
[07:37] <sabdfl> xhaker: yes, can't remember the specifics. url?
[07:39] <xhaker> you wanted to know if it is a complement to network-manager
[07:41] <xhaker> let me introduce, i'm project admin/coder of gtkwifi, the url http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=94536
[07:44] <xhaker> sabdfl: gtkwifi is the easiest solution for free/wep wireless connections, it's a gnome applet, so it means it only works inside gnome (not a daemon)
[07:45] <sabdfl> xhaker: ok, looks good. is there a good gtkwifi package on ubuntu?
[07:45] <sabdfl> would you work with seb128 on that?
[07:45] <sabdfl> i have to run for a car
[07:45] <xhaker> sabdfl: i would like to.. i already package it in .deb
[07:46] <xhaker> but maybe some stuff might not be fine
[07:46] <sabdfl> ok., seb128 will help you get it perfect
[07:46] <dholbach> xhaker: then you should put it up for review
[07:46] <dholbach> or the seb128 way :)
[07:47] <dholbach> xhaker: do you have the source package somewhere, so i can have a look at it?
[07:47] <xhaker> dholbach: i already have revu rights, been lazy to learn dput tho
[07:47] <mdz> Mithrandir: I've reassigned simplified-livecd to you, per discussion yesterday
[07:47] <xhaker> dholbach: in a minute
[07:48] <dholbach> xhaker: then upload it there - that's the easiest way
[07:49] <xhaker> dholbach: an url to the .deb http://easynews.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/gtkwifi/gtkwifi-1.09.deb
[07:49] <dholbach> the deb doesnt help :/
[07:49] <dholbach> you need the source package
[07:49] <xhaker> dholbach: tell me if it's ok
[07:49] <dholbach> xhaker: let's take it to #ubuntu-motu
[07:49] <xhaker> k
[07:58] <mdke> Simira, it's cold too
[08:00] <Simira> mdke : the forecast says 5 to 9 celsius. considered the -9 to 0 celsius in Norway at the moment, I find that comfortable.
[08:02] <mdke> sure, just don't pack for the beach and you'll be ok
[08:03] <Simira> mdke : I'm NORWEGIAN. :p
[08:03] <mdke> yeah, same hemisphere and so on
[08:04] <Simira> well, I was mostly melting when _someone_ in Montreal told us to dress "warm and sensible"....
[08:17] <spacey> i thought is was pretty cold :P
[08:21] <zyga> is there any way to get current line and filename in python
[08:21] <zyga> something similar to __LINE__ and __FILE__ from gcc?
[08:22] <Kinnison> zyga: I think __name__ is similar to __FILE__
[08:22] <Kinnison> but I could be wrong
[08:22] <zyga> __name__ can be "__main__" so I guess not
[08:23] <Kinnison> sys._getframe() could give you the info you want
[08:23] <Kinnison> but it'd be slow
[08:23] <zyga> checking
[08:24] <Kinnison> And apparently there's something called inspect.stack
[08:24] <Kinnison> Sorry I can't be of more use
[08:24] <zyga> Kinnison: you ave of great use :-) thank you
[08:25] <Kinnison> zyga: you're welcome
[08:27] <greenpenguin13> if i just avoid the kernel upgrades for a while will that be ok?
[08:27] <jbailey> greenpenguin13: Avoid udev upgrades while you're at it.
[08:27] <greenpenguin13> ta
[08:27] <jbailey> And probably initramfs-tools and usplash.
[08:27] <jbailey> In practice, it's working fine for me. =)
[08:27] <greenpenguin13> it worked except for restricded-modules
[08:27] <greenpenguin13> but thats fixed
[08:30] <jbailey> See?  Nothing to phear.
[08:30] <jbailey> In fact, it's better if you get bugs in to people and run it if you can do so, given that these are essentially the bits that will go into dapper.
[08:30] <jbailey> So helping them stabilize sooner is good.
[08:31] <jbailey> It's amazing the number of really obvious bugs that get found near the end of a release just because people didn't try it early.
[08:32] <greenpenguin13> yeah
[08:36] <dholbach> good night ubuntueros
[08:37] <seb128> xhaker: pong
[08:37] <seb128> dholbach: 'night
[08:39] <xhaker> seb128: dholback gave me some lights on how to build a real deb package for gtkwifi.. sabdfl was asking for you to help earlier
[08:40] <seb128> xhaker: I can work with you to get that packaged/uploaded
[08:40] <seb128> feel free to ask anything
[08:41] <xhaker> i'm currently trying to write the rules file :) my orig.tar.gz is has some wierd directory structure
[08:45] <botein> Is somebody here how nows how preeseding works for critical notes?
[09:23] <slomo> infinity, lamont: please give-back libqalculate on everything except ppc... and qalculate-{kde,gtk} when it built ;)
[10:10] <Simira> how do I print a page in b/w, without using colours?
[10:12] <mvo> infinity: can you please have a look at the language-selector build? for some reason it isn't build yet
[10:17] <hunger> BenC: The -6-686 kernel seems to work properly for me. Thanks for the update!
[10:17] <BenC> hunger: good deal
[10:17] <hunger> BenC: Still some minor glitches with udev, but nothing serious.
[10:18] <BenC> my cdrom started working again when I upgraded to latest udev
[10:18] <BenC> FYI
[10:19] <hunger> BenC: Mine counts as SCSI (sata), the newest udev is installed but does not help.
[10:19] <BenC> does it show in dmesg, and can you mount it manually?
[10:19] <sivang> do I get all the udev / kernel and initramfs upgrads when apt-get upgrading ?
[10:19] <sivang> (I'm doing that now)
[10:19] <BenC> apt-get dist-upgrade
[10:19] <hunger> BenC: I have no device nodes.
[10:19] <BenC> hunger: dmesg mention it at all?
[10:19] <sivang> BenC: k, I still have other kernels booting in case it all goes wrong
[10:20] <hunger> BenC: Dmesg does only show iptables stuff.
[10:20] <BenC> hunger: what about /var/log/kern.log?
[10:21] <BenC> thing is, if the kernel doesn't show it, then it's my problem, if it does, then it's udev, so I want to be sure which it is :)
[10:22] <hunger> BenC: No, it is not listed.
[10:23] <\sh> ogra: pingeling
[10:23] <hunger> BenC: There is something about ide0 and 1 having its ports used.
[10:23] <BenC> hunger: is your cdrom on the same sata as your harddrive?
[10:23] <hunger> BenC: Dunno... I think not.
[10:23] <BenC> but this does work in breezy?
[10:24] <hunger> BenC: This is a laptop... never opened it to check:-)
[10:24] <hunger> BenC: Oh yes, works fine in breezy.
[10:24] <BenC> heh, likely it is all connected to the same thing
[10:24] <hunger> BenC: I think it is not... but I don't know how to make sure.
[10:25] <hunger> BenC: This HW stuff is changing too much, I am only bothering with it when I must.
[10:25] <BenC> hunger: ok, can you boot to "single", get the output of the following commands: lspci -vv; lspci -vvn; dmesg; 
[10:25] <BenC> and lsmod
[10:26] <BenC> and either open a bug report, or email them to kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com (or both)
[10:26] <hunger> BenC: The lspci output should be on the wike (thinkpad t43p laptop report).
[10:26] <hunger> BenC: Without the -vv stuff:-)
[10:26] <BenC> is there already a bug report on this in regards to dapper?
[10:26] <BenC> 2.6.15 that is
[10:26] <hunger> BenC: I'll be right back (gathering data).
[10:27] <BenC> ok, thanks
[10:38] <hunger> BenC: Where do you want the bugreport? malone or bugzilla?
[10:38] <BenC> hell, might as well put it in malone
[10:43] <hunger> BenC: I mailed the stuff to the list you gave me.
[10:44] <hunger> BenC: I'll try to submit it to malone as well, but usually I am too stupid to make that do what I want.
[10:50] <BenC> hunger: thanks again
[10:50] <BenC> anyone know of a cheap 4-port serial board or USB device?
[10:51] <BenC> I need a way to attach serial consoles to 4 boxes so I don't have to keep swapping one serial cable around
[10:51] <BenC> well, one computer acting as a serial console that I remotely use via minicom
[10:53] <fabbione> BenC: usb to serials are cheap.. 
[10:54] <fabbione> you could just buy 4 of them and hub them together
[10:54] <fabbione> it's probably cheaper than to find a 4xrs232
[10:54] <BenC> true, didn't think about that possibility
[10:54] <BenC> 4xrs232 PCI cards are probably legacy and hard to find
[10:54] <fabbione> exactly
[10:55] <fabbione> i saw usb to serials around
[10:55] <fabbione> but i don't know how much they cost
[10:55] <fabbione> they are supported by linux tho
[10:55] <BenC> wonder if walmart has any :)
[10:56] <hunger> Oh, just noticed that the udev init script uses find which is not available when the script is run (/usr is not mounted).
[10:58] <BenC> ah, you have a special case :)
[10:58] <fabbione> BenC: they probably do :)
[10:58] <fabbione> hunger: DOH!
[10:58] <fabbione> actually
[10:59] <fabbione> hunger: it still works tho
[10:59] <BenC> they have DB9-to-USB...wonder if they have DB25-to-USB for the hppa and sparc64
[10:59] <fabbione> i have separate /usr here.. i think
[10:59] <hunger> fabbione: find is only used to copy devices.
[10:59] <fabbione> hmm no
[10:59] <fabbione> BenC: i doubt.. i only saw DB9 on USB
[10:59] <fabbione> but DB25 -> Db9 are still common around
[11:00] <BenC> the DB9-to-DB25 are probably more expensive than the USB adapter :)
[11:00] <hunger> fabbione: It still does copy the files, so no harm done, but why use the find at all if it is not necessary?
[11:01] <fabbione> BenC: eheh true
[11:01] <fabbione> hunger:  i don't know that code at all
[11:01] <hunger> fabbione: Oh, forget that... I am too tired to think right now.
[11:01] <hunger> Good night!
[11:01] <fabbione> night
[11:01] <fabbione> i am off too actually :)
[11:09] <\sh> hmmm...
[11:10] <\sh> what is the bzr equivalent to cvs export ?
[11:10] <\sh> bzr export doesn't work
[11:10] <trevilor> trulux, how is the hardening project going? :o)
[11:56] <\sh> elmo: why is paramiko not found by pbuilder? http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/paramiko/1.5.1-0ubuntu1/
[11:57] <elmo> sh: err, that's not pbuilder, and I'm not lamont or infinity
[11:58] <\sh> elmo: na.....apt-cache show tells me something else as well..I habe jbaileys bzr snapshot archive and universe enabled...and apt-cache tells me that 1.5-0ubuntu0 is greater then 1.5.1-0ubuntu1...which is IMHO not correct...
[11:59] <\sh> elmo: that's why I asked you :) because it's already build and available :)
[12:00] <\sh> (my pbuilder doesn't use jbaileys archive)
[12:01] <\sh> .oO(and I'm mixing german and english..it means I need some sleep)
[12:02] <xhaker> 30min powernap
[12:02] <xhaker> :P
[12:02] <\sh> xhaker: no..real sleep until 4 utc...:)
[12:02] <xhaker> anyone know where siretart went?