[12:17] <mdke__> LaserJock, you are probably right about that thing in the serverguide, but it is such early days yet, that sort of thing will be rather common
[12:18] <LaserJock> mdke__: I didn't check but do the other docs have the same preface?
[12:19] <mdke__> LaserJock, i don't think so, although they probably should
[12:20] <LaserJock> mdke__: I really like the conventions part. I am putting it in the packaging guide. The only thing is I don't like how at the beginning is calls the notes and stuff "admonitions"
[12:20] <LaserJock> admonitions sound kinda stern or negative
[12:28] <mdke__> i know what you mean
[12:28] <mdke__> LaserJock, i think we should have common prefaces for the docs
[12:30] <LaserJock> I agree, since the conventions should be the same
[12:30] <LaserJock> and the Contributing and Feedback section would be good too
[12:30] <mdke__> good point
[12:30] <mdke__> also probably "getting help"
[12:31] <LaserJock> right
[12:32] <LaserJock> what about if there happended to be doc specific conventions? Could those be handled?
[12:34] <mdke__> yes, by not using the common one
[12:34] <mdke__> what do you have in mind?
[12:35] <mdke__> rob1, ping a ling a ling
[12:36] <LaserJock> mdke__: I just wondered. If a guide had some special conventions above and beyond the common ones
[12:36] <mdke__> sure, i just couldn't think of what
[12:36] <LaserJock> mdke__: for instance in the server guide there is the vim part
[12:36] <mdke__> i believe that the desktopguide has its own for that reason
[12:36] <mdke__> ah, good point
[12:36] <mdke__> why would the serverguide use vim...
[12:37] <LaserJock> I mean, there certainly should be a common convention because we have a common style guide
[12:37] <LaserJock> mdke__: because it is installed by default ;-)
[12:37] <mdke__> nano is installed by default too
[12:37] <mdke__> and it's 20 times easier
[12:37] <LaserJock> mdke__: sure about that?
[12:37] <mdke__> pretty sure
[12:37] <mdke__> it's on all my systems
[12:37] <LaserJock> on a server install?
[12:38] <mdke__> i have a minimal install on my home server, nano is there
[12:38] <mdke__> not a server tho
[12:38] <mdke__> but the serverguide is not only for server installs
[12:38] <mdke__> it's for everything
[12:38] <LaserJock> ok, well then they probably should use nano I guess. I mean vim is universal, but nano is easier
[12:39] <mdke__> i haven't done a server install so I dunno, if vim is the only editor on all installs, then it would make sense to use that
[12:40] <mdke__> but nano is much easier
[12:40] <MichaleR> Those who know vim can work with nano, those who know nano may not know vim.  vim users will seek out vim
[12:41] <mdke__> those who know neither, will prefer nano ;)
[12:41] <MichaleR> Yep, if you refer to nano all users are covered and can work
[12:41] <mdke__> anyhow, we should be giving the user a choice in the conventions section
[12:41] <mdke__> i don't see a reason to say "use this"
[12:42] <mdke__> oh yeah i do
[12:42] <mdke__> i guess the format of the guide throughout is "run command x" rather than "edit file y"
[12:43] <MichaleR> Yes, those who need the help have it those that don't do the mental substitution and fire up vim
[12:44] <mdke__> welcome by the way MichaleR 
[12:44] <MichaleR> thanks
[12:47] <mdke__> MichaleR, interested in ubuntu documentation?
[12:48] <MichaleR> A bit, as soon as I fulfill the exercise for the reader between ...
[12:49] <MichaleR> checking the svn docs out and extracting one of those for editing
[12:52] <MichaleR> or does one edit directly on the tree they've checked out?
[12:55] <mdke__> yeah you can edit them directly
[12:55] <mdke__> MichaleR, sorry, what exercise for the reader?
[12:55] <MichaleR> You just answered it.
[12:56] <mdke__> ah ok
[12:56] <mdke__> MichaleR, any particular docs interest you? are you a kubuntu or a ubuntu person?
[12:56] <MichaleR> When you check out the repository, do you then have a local subversion repository to check things out of or do you have a doc tree to edit
[12:56] <MichaleR> ubuntu
[12:56] <MichaleR> I've a history with networking and I see the server docs are ... sparse
[12:57] <mdke__> MichaleR, the server doc was only born a week ago ;)
[12:57] <mdke__> all help much appreciated
[12:58] <mdke__> now, about your question
[12:58] <MichaleR> I picked a nice time to show up
[12:58] <MichaleR> ;)
[12:58] <mdke__> you check out the repository
[12:58] <MichaleR> Which I've done
[12:58] <mdke__> ok cool
[12:58] <mdke__> you can use "svn up" to update it
[12:58] <mdke__> and you can make changes in there, and send diff's to the mailing list
[12:59] <mdke__> the process is described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[12:59] <Burgwork> indeed
[12:59] <MichaleR> Yes, I was reading that and got hung up on the "check out of my local or edit it" step, which you just cleared up.
[01:00] <Burgwork> they can hide my laziness
[01:00] <mdke__> :)
[01:00] <MichaleR> I did want to read the section on openSSH, which was just contributed, but it's not in the serverguide.xml 
[01:01] <MichaleR> << Also read the style guide to help avoid wrong path
[01:01] <mdke__> serverguide.xml doesn't have any material i think, just includes to the other files that make up the document
[01:01] <mdke__> yeah, that's right
[01:01] <MichaleR> networkapplications in this case
[01:02] <MichaleR> or network-applications
[01:02] <mdke__> yes
[01:02] <mdke__> the openssh bit is quite empty
[01:02] <mdke__> in fact, entirely empty ;)
[01:03] <MichaleR> I could start in on DNS and DHCP while I lobby for inclusion of postfix in the MTA section
[01:03] <mdke__> erm
[01:03] <mdke__> postfix will be the mta
[01:03] <mdke__> what is there now?
[01:04] <MichaleR> Brian Shumate just did something on openSSH according to email list traffic
[01:04] <mdke__> MichaleR, yeah but he hasn't made a patch for us yet
[01:04] <MichaleR> exim 
[01:04] <MichaleR> the debian default MTA
[01:04] <mdke__> ok well postfix is the Ubuntu default MTA
[01:04] <mdke__> :)
[01:05] <MichaleR> One of the likeable things . . . 
[01:05] <mdke__> i discussed it briefly with bhuvan and we agreed that the guide would use that
[01:07] <MichaleR> "guide would use that"  that meaning postfix? 
[01:08] <mdke__> yes
[01:09] <MichaleR> So I can rush right off for a s/Exim/Postfix/ patch to apply :)
[01:09] <mdke__> sure
[01:10] <mdke__> MichaleR, have you had any experience with docbook xml? you find it relatively easy to understand?
[01:11] <MichaleR> HA!
[01:11] <MichaleR> That's part of the learning curve.
[01:11] <mdke__> :)
[01:12] <MichaleR> But as someone who considers vim an advanced HTML editor I'm not too worried.  There's validation tools to point out the errors also.
[01:12] <mdke__> MichaleR, don't forget to check your work by using the validate.sh script and building the html.
[01:12] <mdke__> yep, exactly
[01:12] <mdke__> that wiki page should be good enough to get you through, especially since you know html
[01:13] <MichaleR> That part was doing well so far, and it directs the reader to my favorite kind of learning ~"read, see examples, mimic"
[01:13] <mdke__> mine too
[01:13] <mdke__> MichaleR, where are you from btw?
[01:14] <MichaleR> Portland, Oregon
[01:14] <MichaleR> And yes, I did see Jeff at the meeting earlier this week.
[01:14] <mdke__> which jeff, and which meeting?
[01:14] <MichaleR> Though I started using Ubuntu in July
[01:15] <MichaleR> Jeff Waugh, at the Badger Badger Badger Tour final appearence
[01:15] <mdke__> ah
[01:15] <mdke__> good, well welcome aboard
[01:15] <MichaleR> Someone has already changed exim to postfix in the repository.
[01:16] <mdke__> ah good
[01:16] <mdke__> bhuvan i guess
[01:16] <MichaleR> How often does that get built out to the web site?
[01:16] <mdke__> every day
[01:16] <mdke__> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ch04s14.html
[01:18] <MichaleR> ah, and the wiki page just lists the outline
[01:18] <mdke__> yeah that's right
[01:18] <mdke__> that may be out of date
[01:20] <MichaleR> Not any more.
[01:20] <mdke__> :)
[01:22] <MichaleR> What part of the UK are you in?
[01:22] <mdke__> london
[01:24] <Burgwork> poor mdke 
[01:30] <Burgwork> last time I was in london there were two layers of overcast
[01:31] <Burgwork> thick heavy overcast
[01:32] <Burgwork> of course, I had just come from Spain....
[01:32] <mdke> who the hell unbanned that diable guy in -devel
[01:32] <mdke> tragic
[01:35] <Burgwork> indeed
[01:35] <Burgwork> he still owns ubuntu-laptop too
[01:35] <Burgwork> mdke, do you work for canonical?
[01:35] <mdke> no...
[01:35] <mdke> why?
[01:36] <Burgwork> some things others said
[01:36] <mdke> hmm, tell me all
[01:37] <Burgwork> sorry, can't
[01:37] <Burgwork> life is filled with secrets
[01:37] <Burgwork> but I don't think it involves you getting hired by Canonical
[01:38] <mdke> true
[01:38] <mdke> i'm not a big fan of rumours about me tho
[01:38] <mdke> especially when i don't know what they are
[01:38] <Burgwork> not rumours, just they way they talked about you
[01:38] <mdke> well as long as it was a good way :D
[01:38] <Burgwork> yes it was, don't worry
[01:38] <mdke> phew
[01:39] <mdke> i would have said something if I started working for them
[01:40] <mpt> Burgwork: As in "Burgwork is the odd human who tries to use me most days"? 
[01:40] <Burgwork> mpt, little bit longer, with some more details
[01:40] <Burgwork> think author bio
[01:40] <mdke> check out bhuvan's website
[01:40] <mdke> he has an awesome bio
[01:42] <mdke> he even mentions each teacher at school
[01:42] <Burgwork> Corey Burger is a member of the Ubuntu Documentation Team, Laptop
[01:42] <Burgwork> Testing Team and has been involved with Ubuntu since the first
[01:42] <Burgwork> release. Also active in promoting Ubuntu and Open Source, he has given
[01:42] <Burgwork> several talks to conferences and Linux User Groups about Ubuntu. His
[01:42] <Burgwork> day job involves sales for Userful, a multiseat Linux vendor.
[01:43] <Burgwork> any thoughts?
[01:44] <mdke> you need the names of the high school teachers
[01:45] <mpt> haha
[01:45] <Burgwork> ouch
[01:46] <Burgwork> seriously, any comments?
[01:46] <Burgwork> assume that little bit of writing might be appearing in print
[01:46] <mdke> well you know more than me about you
[01:46] <mdke> ah, i see
[01:46] <mdke> sounds fine
[01:47] <mpt> I'd swap the halves of the first sentence
[01:47] <mpt> and add an "and" before "Laptop Testing Team"
[01:47] <mpt> but other than that it's peachy
[01:47] <mdke> ++
[01:47] <Burgwork> thanks
[01:48] <mdke> where is it going?
[01:48] <Burgwork> sorry, can't tell you that
[01:48] <mpt> bwahaha
[01:48] <mdke> heh
[01:49] <Burgwork> dammit, your supposed to get 4
[01:49] <mdke> i was already in double figures
[01:49] <mpt> easy, Burgwork, he's only just started
[01:50] <mdke> mpt, :(
[01:50] <mpt> what? :-)
[01:50] <Burgwork> this little secret will be very cool, once I can tell you what it is
[01:50] <mdke> is it a job?
[01:51] <Burgwork> nah, just a contract
[01:51] <mdke> btw, once you reveal that you have a secret, people will guess until they hit it
[01:51] <Burgwork> that might be true
[01:52] <mpt> I have a special strategy to deal with that sort of thing
[01:52] <mdke> mpt, is it to cover your ears and sing?
[01:52] <mpt> no, that's what I do when people start talking about Harry Potter plot lines
[01:52] <mdke> hehe
[01:53] <mpt> but for anything which could be guessed by a process of elimination, I don't answer any questions at all
[01:53] <mdke> quite right too
[01:54] <mpt> and for anything morally palatable where, if it was true for me, I wouldn't want people to know, I refuse to answer even if it's false for me
[01:54] <mpt> just to provide a little extra cover for the people who it *is* true for
[01:55] <mdke> --> sleep
[01:55] <mpt> E.g. if you ask me if I work for the KGB, I won't tell you, even though it's very unlikely that I do
[01:56] <Burgwork> night mdke 
[01:56] <mpt> night mdke
[01:58] <MichaleR> g'night and thanks for the introductions
[01:58] <Burgwork> mpt, where is the world are you now?
[01:58] <Burgwork> salut jsgotangco 
[02:01] <LaserJock> cya mdke 
[02:01] <jsgotangco> yo dude
[02:01] <jsgotangco> i'm in seoul
[02:01] <jsgotangco> i'll be speaking in an hour
[02:06] <mpt> Burgwork, back in Brazil
[06:10] <rob1> hmm
[06:15] <Madpilot> ?
[06:15] <rob1> mdke keeps pinging me but is sleeping when I return from work
[06:16] <LaserJock> yeah, that's the problem with global communications
[09:18] <Madpilot> Docbook XML is giving me a headache... four lines of actual writing is enough for the night...
[09:20] <rob1> heh
[09:20] <rob1> sounds good
[09:21] <Madpilot> Breezy's little popup when you insert a blank CD is great - no need to mention Gnomebaker right away, IMO
[09:21] <Madpilot> sweet, some of my hacked XML actually works in Yelp...
[09:22] <rob1> hehe
[09:22] <rob1> nice
[09:22] <Madpilot> Docbook is so damned verbose, I'm used to HTML...
[09:22] <rob1> yeah, once you get used to using the whole word its ok
[09:24] <Madpilot> hmm... is the "burn photo CD" option actually any different from the "burn data CD" one? Nautilus doesn't seem to act any different...
[09:24] <rob1> are you running dapper yet?
[09:24] <Madpilot> no, stock Breezy final
[09:24] <rob1> I would say it probably isn't
[09:25] <rob1> but it could be, I've seen burning apps where the photo thing was actually a vcd slide show
[09:25] <Madpilot> yeah
[09:25] <Madpilot> I'll leave it out, going to mention Serpentine in 20 words or less, though
[09:26] <rob1> I use nerolinux, for some reason linux doesn't like my dvd burner
[09:27] <Madpilot> mine works fine (at least for CDs, haven't bothered trying DVDs in in). Nautilus burns great, so does k3b, gnomebaker always crashes on me and produces coasters...
[09:29] <rob1> the only way I can do it is manually create .isos on the command line, then run burn it manually using growisofs
[09:29] <mdke> rob1, i've got to go to work now :(
[09:29] <rob1> dam
[09:29] <mdke> reply to my emails?
[09:29] <rob1> sure, which one?
[09:29] <mdke> any one
[09:30] <mdke> i've got this working copy of common-tasks.xml hanging around and I don't know whether to commit it
[09:30] <rob1> I'm gonna miss the meetig, christmas shopping to do
[09:30] <mdke> ok
[09:30] <rob1> (because its on saturday morning for me)
[09:31] <mdke> not much on the agenda anyhow
[09:31] <mdke> but I'd love feedback on my desktopguide ideas
[09:31] <rob1> commit your working copy if you want, we can always roll it back if it breaks or whatever
[09:31] <rob1> then I can check it out
[09:32] <mdke> rob1, i posted you a link to a build of it
[09:32] <Madpilot> mdke: I'm engaged in a large re-write of common-tasks.xml right now - maybe you should commit now before I do too much more?
[09:32] <mdke> okay
[09:32] <mdke> i wanted to agree an approach with rob
[09:32] <rob1> maybe I should break it up into more files so people can work on each bit
[09:33] <Madpilot> it's not a long file now
[09:33] <rob1> hmm
[09:33] <mdke> my changes are format based rather than content
[09:33] <Madpilot> it's going to be a bit longer once I add the Serpentine stuff, but not much longer
[09:33] <mdke> i just changed the music section as an example of where I wanted to go
[09:33] <rob1> I haven't looked at it in about two days.. dam christmas parties
[09:34] <Madpilot> mdke: commit, I'll save my changes locally, and cut'n'paste back in after I svn up
[09:34] <mdke> alright, doing that now
[09:34] <rob1> mdke, I'm not totally opposed to your ideas, so commit them and I can add my ideas to it
[09:34] <Madpilot> OK
[09:34] <mdke> rob1, ok, done. I'm off to work, let me know how you find that structure
[09:35] <rob1> mdke, ok 
[09:35] <mdke> bye
[09:35] <rob1> cya mdke 
[09:36] <rob1> man work was torture today, we are in the process of upgrading from nt to xp.. oh the pain, the pain!
[09:37] <rob1> just getting the three pcs sitting on my desk was painful enough
[09:37] <rob1> getting them done, that is
[09:38] <Madpilot> now that XP's installed, you've got to make a working OS out if it - that'll take another half day or so...
[09:38] <rob1> we have ghost images made by the software guys, but every one we get is broken in some way
[09:39] <rob1> for some odd reason my home drive isn't mapping properly
[09:40] <rob1> when I log onto a nt box it works fine however
[09:40] <Madpilot> fun
[09:40] <rob1> wall|  <-- head
[09:41] <Madpilot> hmm... when I'm viewing the svn docs thru Yelp (launched from the command line), none of the contents of <xref linkend="add-applications"/> (or any xref tag) seems to show up - is that normal?
[09:42] <rob1> yelp doesn't properly support some of the more exotic docbook tags
[09:43] <rob1> I just run the makefile (make dg-C in /ubuntu) then check the resulting .html files under /build when I want to see the results
[09:43] <rob1> using firefox
[09:44] <Madpilot> I'll figure that out later - for now it's enough that the basic text is appearing where I want it...
[09:45] <rob1> yelp supports olink tags better (so I'm led to beleave) so I'll be changing all the xrefs to olinks soon
[09:46] <rob1> I've already set up the olink database for the desktop guide, so its ready to go for them
[09:46] <rob1> although they work a little differently to xrefs
[09:46] <rob1> bbs
[09:46] <Madpilot> should someone do a global search/replace for "Add/Remove Applications", given that the menu entry & app is actually just called "Add Applications"?
[10:05] <rob1> Madpilot, we are still deciding how we will tell the users when to install packages
[10:11] <Madpilot> fair enough
[10:11] <rob1> does serpentine only do music cds?
[10:11] <Madpilot> crap, I can't find the "how to generate an svn diff" stuff on the wiki right now
[10:11] <Madpilot> serpentine? yes, AFAIK
[10:12] <rob1> cd to the directory, do svn diff filename.xml > filename.xml.diff
[10:12] <Madpilot> thnx
[10:14] <Madpilot> OK, diff done for common-tasks.xml, off to the list in a moment
[10:15] <rob1> great, I'll apply it for you
[10:17] <rob1> hmm
[10:18] <bhuvan> Madpilot, ensure to do 'svn up' before preparing 'svn diff'
[10:18] <rob1> I wonder how much nero is to buy?
[10:18] <bhuvan> mdke have recently applied a patch to that file, common-tasks.xml
[10:18] <Madpilot> bhuvan: I got mdke's patch, so I should be OK
[10:19] <bhuvan> nice
[10:19] <Madpilot> diff sent to list
[10:19] <rob1> ooo only 19.95 usd
[10:20] <rob1> thats gone down $10 since last time I saw it
[10:35] <Madpilot> rob1: got my diff?
[10:35] <rob1> just about to apply it
[10:38] <rob1> did you run the validate script on desktopguide.xml first?
[10:40] <Madpilot> yes - see my email - the errors seemed to concern parts of the xml I hadn't modified?
[10:40] <rob1> line 57, in how do I burn music cds
[10:40] <rob1> you just mixed the listitem tags up
[10:41] <Madpilot> opened one before closing another?
[10:41] <rob1> yeah
[10:41] <Madpilot> yeah, I had two /listitems in a row there, I see now
[10:42] <rob1> fixed and committed
[10:42] <Madpilot> thnx
[10:43] <rob1> just run ../../../validate.sh desktopguide.xml and it will tell you where the error is
[10:43] <rob1> and what file its in
[10:43] <Madpilot> with the three leading / like that?
[10:44] <rob1> if you run it from the ubuntu-doc/ubuntu/desktopguide/C directory
[10:44] <rob1> because its located in the ubuntu directory
[10:44] <Madpilot> OK, got you.
[10:45] <Madpilot> the Serpetine section needs a bit of work... but it can wait until tomorrow, it's 0145 here...
[10:45] <rob1> heh yeah, sure
[10:45] <rob1> good work
[10:45] <rob1> btw
[10:46] <Madpilot> thanks again - more later
[10:55] <rob1> we might add the cd burning as its own section or under mulitmedia maybe
[10:57] <rob1> anyway, night
[02:47] <mhz> #ubuntu-devel
[03:21] <bhuvan> regarding server guide..
[03:21] <bhuvan> any opinion about including access methods in version control section
[03:21] <bhuvan> various access methods are http://, https://, svn://, svn+ssh://, etc.
[03:31] <jjesse> bhuvan: i think i'm the only one at the keys :)  and i haven't had a chance to look at the server guide recently
[03:33] <Judax_> greets
[03:34] <bhuvan> jjesse, ok :)
[05:11] <LaserJock> Madpilot: ping?
[05:43] <mdke> rob1, around?
[05:44] <mdke> can anyone think of any agenda items for the meeting?
[05:46] <mdke> hi there ned
[05:46] <ned> hi all :-)
[05:47] <ned> I'm a little confused with the docbook thing...
[05:47] <mdke> ned, thanks for those mails to the list.
[05:47] <mdke> let's get you working in docbook :)
[05:47] <ned> you are welcome - it is nice to help
[05:48] <ned> I have been reading about it - I thought it was an app :-o
[05:48] <mdke> heh
[05:48] <mdke> it is like html
[05:48] <mdke> are you familiar with html?
[05:48] <LaserJock> mdke: what about the common Preface thing?
[05:48] <ned> so I see
[05:48] <mdke> LaserJock, yeah nice one
[05:48] <ned> I know what HTML is but have never used it
[05:49] <ned> well never written it
[05:49] <mdke> okay
[05:49] <mdke> ned, have you got as far as downloading our repository?
[05:50] <ned> nope - I'm going through the crashcourse for docbook
[05:50] <mdke> ah cool
[05:50] <mdke> ned, feel free to fire any questions
[05:50] <mdke> i'm not very good with it myself actually
[05:50] <ned> hehe
[05:50] <mdke> it's a lot of trial and error learning
[05:51] <ned> i think I will need to spend quite a while to get the hang of it
[05:51] <mdke> ned, a key tool is the validation script in our archive, that tells you if there are any errors
[05:51] <LaserJock> ned: it is easier if you work on examples. The docs have a lot of stuff for people used th HTML, etc.
[05:51] <mdke> the best thing is to download our repository, and have a look at some examples
[05:51] <ned> the desktop guide was really useful btw - I learned alot proof reading it :-)
[05:51] <ned> ahh yes that sounds good
[05:52] <mdke> the key guide for that is this:
[05:52] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[05:52] <ned> okay I will check it out - thx
[06:01] <ned> I think it may take a while to download :-)
[06:04] <LaserJock> ned: you on dialup, It's about 170MB
[06:05] <ned> nahh got adsl thankfully
[06:05] <mdke> yeah it's big
[06:05] <LaserJock> although it is 170MB on my disk, not sure if it is the same to download
[06:05] <ned> what text editor do you folks write in?
[06:05] <mdke> gedit
[06:06] <mdke> bluefish is nice too
[06:06] <LaserJock> gvim or gedit or emacs or nano
[06:06] <LaserJock> whatever I feel like at the moment ;-)
[06:06] <mdke> something with syntax highlighting will help
[06:06] <LaserJock> for sure
[06:06] <ned> gedit has syntax highlights?  (I haven't used any of those apps)
[06:06] <LaserJock> gedit
[06:07] <LaserJock> does
[06:07] <ned> ok gedit it is then :-)
[06:07] <mdke> what part of the uk are you in ned?
[06:08] <ned> nottingham/derby area
[06:08] <mdke> i'm in london
[06:08] <ned> aha
[06:09] <ned> it seems gedit is the deault text editor - thats handy
[06:09] <ned> *default
[06:13] <ned> there instructions say : /ubuntu-doc/gnome/quickguide/C/quick-guide.xml but there is no gnome folder...  quickguide is in the root
[06:14] <LaserJock> mdke: the diff is starting to get pretty big on packagingguide.xml ;-)
[06:14] <LaserJock> ned: go to ubuntu instead of gnome
[06:14] <ned> ok
[06:14] <mdke> LaserJock, send it over
[06:15] <mdke> ned, good point, we'll update them
[06:15] <LaserJock> mdke: not quite yet, I just got through the first chapter
[06:15] <mdke> LaserJock, it can't hurt, I can apply it immediately and you can carry on working
[06:15] <ned> yah its in root of Ubuntu not root of ubuntu-doc
[06:16] <LaserJock> mdke: true. just a sec.
[06:16] <mdke> ned, we renamed "gnome" to "ubuntu" recently
[06:18] <ned> that would explain it :-)
[06:22] <mdke> LaserJock, done
[06:22] <LaserJock> mdke: thanks
[06:23] <mdke> LaserJock, is the original author helping you out too, or will you be on your own for now?
[06:24] <LaserJock> mdke: Honestly, I'm not sure. He said that he wanted to work on it but I get the impression that he was sort of going on his own :(
[06:28] <LaserJock> mdke: do you know how to freshen, i.e. get rid of stuff that isn't in the repo, with svn?
[06:29] <LaserJock> i can just manually rm stuff but I wondered if there was a more elegant solution
[06:30] <mdke> LaserJock, svn revert filename
[06:30] <mdke> svn status to see what you've changed
[06:30] <mdke> svn revert -R for recursive
[06:30] <LaserJock> mdke: but what about files that weren't in the repo to start with, I have stuff in the build directory for example
[06:31] <mdke> ah, i always just rm them
[06:31] <LaserJock> ok, that's fine
[06:32] <mdke> you can always just remove whole directories then do "svn up" to restore what you've lost
[06:32] <LaserJock> ah, that's a good idea too
[08:47] <Roman27> I'm thinking about adding a wiki document, but have a question.
[08:48] <Roman27> Is it possible to start writing a wiki document, but not publish it right away?
[08:51] <Roman27> Hello?
[08:52] <Roman27> Is everyone just idling in here?
[08:54] <Roman27> Hmm...  I guess so.
[08:55] <Roman27> Maybe I'll just try it out and see how it goes.
[10:17] <kjcole> Roman27, use a nickname in a sentence to get specific people's attention.
[10:17] <mdke> he's not here ;)
[10:18] <Kingbahamut> regretable as that might be, he seemed a little stressed in his speaking
[10:18] <kjcole> mdke, Oops. I guess I thought he might still be hiding on another channel, and that mentioning a name might alert him.  (It does for me in Konversation.)
[10:22] <ned> mdke you here m?
[10:32] <LaserJock> ned: do you need something?
[10:35] <ned> Hi LJ yes im a little stuck
[10:36] <ned> I have been running through the doc https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository but when I try and validate or yelp it errors
[10:47] <LaserJock> ned: what are you working on 
[10:48] <LaserJock> I guess about-ubuntu.xml?
[10:49] <ned> yes thats it
[10:49] <ned> even if i don't make any modes it doesn't work
[10:50] <LaserJock> ned: what command are you running to validate it?
[10:52] <LaserJock> if I am in the ubuntu-doc/ubuntu/about-ubuntu/C/ directory and run "~/ubuntu-doc/validate.sh about-ubuntu.xml" it works fine
[10:52] <ned> let me see...
[10:55] <ned> hmm thats wasn'y the directory but if  I do that I just get a ">"
[10:56] <LaserJock> ned: so it validated
[10:57] <ned> yes I guess that one did - but the doc itself has changed - the references to gnome have gone :-)
[10:58] <LaserJock> ned: so did I answer your question or do you need more?
[10:58] <ned> I will run through it all again and see what happens
[10:58] <ned> thanks LJ
[10:59] <LaserJock> np, that's what we are here for :-)
[11:05] <kjcole> Did my calendar screw up?  (More precisely "Was there/will there be a DocTeam meeting?"  The Fridge says "now".
[11:07] <ned> LJ yes the instructions from this new guide work :-) the old one had a load of gnome references and pointed at ubuntu/quickguide/C/quick-guide.xml
[11:07] <ned>   I think I picked a bad time to practice hehe
[11:08] <mdke> oh good point kjcole 
[11:08] <ned> hi kjcole I can't help you with the DocTem meeting :-/
[11:08] <mdke> kjcole, dude your irc client pings you when someone mentions your name on a channel you're not even on?
[11:08] <mdke> that is serious use of the force
[11:09] <kjcole> mdke, yep. Konversation's rather nice that way.  (You have to go in and tweak the default settings to turn that feature on.)
[11:10] <mdke> lemme try
[11:10] <mdke> kjcole, get that?
[11:10] <kjcole> Yep.
[11:10] <mdke> wtf!
[11:10] <mdke> what channel did i ping you from?
[11:11] <kjcole> #ubuntu-doc
[11:11] <mdke> no...
[11:11] <mdke> you're in #ubuntu-doc now
[11:11] <mdke> i pinged you from #ubuntu-it
[11:12] <mdke> there is no way of technology that I can even imagine that you could have heard that :)
[11:12] <mdke> even with kde
[11:12] <mdke> so if you did, you have supernatural powers
[11:13] <kjcole> mdke, bizarre!  It showed up in my ubuntu-doc tab, even though I had the focus on #ubuntu-meeting.
[11:13] <mdke> erm ok i'll say something else
[11:13] <mdke> kjcole, what number did i say?
[11:14] <kjcole> mdke, never mind. I understand.  When I responded "yup" I was responding  to the fact that I got "kjcole, get that?"  The actual message you sent from ubuntu-it I didn't get, but didn't know there was one to get, so I assumed I had gotten what you sent.
[11:14] <mdke> lol
[11:14] <kjcole> mdke, (did that make any sense?)
[11:14] <mdke> phreaky
[11:14] <mdke> yeah
[11:14] <mdke> ok phew
[11:14] <kjcole> mdke, I didn't get the number you said.
[11:15] <mdke> so you aren't psychic
[11:15] <mdke> :(
[11:15] <kjcole> mdke, I wish.  
[11:17] <ned> anyone know when the server starter guide preview will be up?
[11:18] <LaserJock> ned: try doc.ubuntu.com
[11:18] <ned> will do - thx
[11:26] <ned> how come there is no serverguide in the repository I have downloaded?
[11:27] <mdke> ned, did you download the whole trunk?
[11:27] <ned> ummm I don't know m
[11:27] <ned> I followed the instructions
[11:28] <mdke> have you got a "generic" folder?
[11:28] <mdke> that's where the serverguide is
[11:28] <ned> and if I svn up it does not pull anything else down
[11:28] <ned> aha yes I do have it - thanks mdke
[11:29] <mdke> ned, how are you getting on?
[11:29] <ned> lol confused 
[11:30] <mdke> ned, just ask
[11:32] <ned> is the serverguide at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ a preview? if so how come there is no link to it?
[11:32] <ned> ... from the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
[11:33] <mdke> ned, negligence
[11:33] <ned> ok thats a bit clearer - but why is in generic and not ubuntu?
[11:35] <mdke> ned, because it will ship with kubuntu too
[11:35] <ned> ahhh I see :-)
[11:35] <ned> I am just a bit lost - thanks for the help m
[11:35] <mdke> no, good question
[11:35] <mdke> and that's the second error on our wiki pages you've pointed out, so that helps too ;)
[11:36] <ned> great :-) 
[11:41] <rob1> hi
[11:43] <mdke> rob1!
[11:44] <rob1> :)
[12:01] <mdke> hey Judax 
[12:01] <Judax> Hi
[12:01] <Judax> sorry, late to meetig
[12:01] <LaserJock> there wasn't much of a meeting