[12:03] ogra : ok and where is usualy the icon? [12:03] n /usr/share/pixmaps ... [12:04] dont give a path in the icon= line ... [12:04] ogra : yeah I know that path but I mean where is it in the package? [12:05] if you add it in a patchhhhh you ave to uuencode it ... [12:05] hrm... kbd broken again === jinty [n=jinty@205.134.224.215] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] === ajmitch takes an h from patch & adds it elsewhere in the sentence [12:06] thanks :) [12:06] keys sticking? [12:06] yup [12:06] that gets annoying [12:06] bought a new keaboard before ubz :( [12:06] <\sh> ogra: icons which are not in the source, you can add in debian/ dir...uuencoded...means build-dep on sharutils [12:06] <\sh> ogra: use the sun one :) [12:06] ok, the word seems to be that invoking dh_desktop actually is required. A lot of packages don't do this properly. [12:07] a lot should [12:07] In the past we've kinda turned a blind eye, because placing .desktop in /usr/share/applications/ will be picked up into the menu [12:07] it *should* be picked up [12:07] \sh, to big to hammer it in the laptop case :) [12:08] \sh, and i'll need it for essen on saturday === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:08] However, as in the case of ViM, even though the menu entry is present, without actually invoking dh_desktop the proper nautilus bits aren't registered [12:08] right [12:08] <\sh> ogra: wow...ISH sun keyboard at linuxtage in essen...we should take some photos [12:08] hh [12:08] hm, lunchtime === ajmitch will be back later, might upload some pending merges :) [12:09] now that scummvm should build [12:09] well, once fluidsynth is synced & built [12:09] <\sh> so..night [12:09] <\sh> cu later this day [12:09] night === ajmitch wanders off for some food [12:10] crimsun: my reading is that dh_desktop is for updating the MIME database, not menu items [12:10] I never really tested though === andi5 [n=ak47@p548B8977.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:12] ajmitch: how do you mean file the bug? [12:13] bojan: as the topic of the channel says, read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge please === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-084-059-077-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:15] minghua: that's correct [12:15] minghua: oh, you mean in malone. that's clear [12:16] ogra : one last thing before I completed the new desktop entry : "if cdbs's gnome.mk is not used, make sure the binary* target installs the .desktop file into /usr/share/applications/" how do I do that?? and most of all, where do I make the changes? === minghua reminds himself to add dh_desktop call to his own package === ogra doesnt do that either [12:16] thierry_, apt-get source gworldclock [12:16] have a look at the debian dir [12:17] (rules .desktop and control) [12:18] hi. well, i have to admit, that i do not understand a lot of these pages the topic lists (yet). maybe someone can tell me what the process of suggesting an update of a ubuntu universe package, which was updated/revisioned in debian, but not yet in ubuntu - and where i have to do this? thanks in advance! [12:18] is called... [12:19] andi5: I presume you mean an update in the current development branch, of course? [12:19] ogra : ok good but gworldclock doesn't use cdbs and doesn't also use dh_desktop [12:19] crimsun: well, if current development branch == dapper... i do not know, since this package seems to be only in breezy (ref. packages.ubuntu.com) [12:20] andi5: we don't update packages in stable releases [12:20] (there are rare exceptions) [12:21] crimsun: ok, then the package is "missing" in dapper, or something like that ;-) is that done automagically, can i suggest/watch this? [12:21] andi5: which package? [12:21] libgwrap-runtime0-dev [12:22] thierry_, nope, it just uses cp ... [12:22] it's in both breezy and dapper [12:23] ogra : yeah but is it normal (like do I need dh_desktop or do I do like gworldclock) ? [12:23] crimsun: hmpf, i am just remembering, that i did not choose "all distros" like in debian.... [12:23] (while searching for a file, ok, i am wrong) [12:24] andi5: note that it's a merge candidate, and we haven't gotten to it yet [12:24] thierry_, both is bad, upstream should add a .desktop file in the tarball ... so it doesnt really matter :)( [12:24] soo... merging is exactly that? === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-83-8.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:25] ogra : k, going to send my patch on malone... do you want to get the bug # when it will be done? [12:26] yep [12:31] ogra : bug 5288 [12:31] Malone bug #5288: orbit (Ubuntu) - [PATCH] adding a .desktop file to space-orbit In: space-orbit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5288 [12:32] thierry_, did you tesbuild it ? [12:32] ogra : well no because my pbuilder is not yet set :( [12:33] i doubt it will work if you dont create the usr/share/applications dir anywhere ;) [12:33] Ubugtu: hztty [12:34] hm... why can't Ubugtu simply understand what I want ;) [12:34] you mean magigally read your brain ? [12:34] sure... ;) [12:34] ogra : debian/space-orbit/usr/share/applications is not enough? I looked at gworldclock and didn't saw anything else revelant to usr/share/applications [12:34] heh [12:35] thierry_, i'm pretty sure there is either a mkdir in the rules or the dir is created from the dirs file === hunger [n=hunger@p54A62815.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:37] ogra : no mkdir in rules and dirs file is : usr/share/pixmaps [12:37] usr/share/applications [12:38] thierry_: it's completely possible that upstream's Makefiles handle that [12:38] lol: (BTS): "#337392: chicken: eggs not installable via chicken-setup" [12:38] ogra : so what should I do then? [12:38] thierry_, the dirs file counts here [12:38] ogra : ok so I should create a dirs file with usr/share/applications in it ? [12:38] the dirs from the dirs file are created in the target dir ... [12:40] if you only create it for this one line, id consider a mkdir in rules ... [12:40] from xaos: [12:40] mkdir -p debian/xaos/usr/share/applications [12:40] cp debian/xaos.desktop debian/xaos/usr/share/applications [12:40] ogra : cool thanks [12:40] thats in the binary-arch target [12:41] which reminds me, i should mail joeyh about including it in the debian package ... [12:42] ogra: or install -D, I think [12:42] yup, would work as well ... [12:42] but all these solutions are hackish anyway [12:42] ogra : ok but I don't have any bynary-arch target (a target is like "install :" and "binary-common :" right?) [12:42] agreed, such changes should be always pushed upstream [12:42] yup [12:43] ogra : so I create binary-arch but between what and what? [12:43] nope, add it to a existing target ... [12:44] install is fine [12:44] huh? missing binary-arch target is an RC bug IIRC [12:45] not if the package is binary-indep only ... [12:45] i.e. arch all [12:45] why leave useless clutter in the rules ... [12:46] ogra: the policy says otherwise: " Both the binary-arch and binary-indep targets must exist. If one of them has nothing to do (which will always be the case if the source generates only a single binary package, whether architecture-dependent or not), it must still exist and must always succeed." [12:47] how silly ... [12:47] pity we don't have a annotated version of the policy with rationales === minghua believes there is a reason for that [12:48] i cant see one === ajmitch returns [12:48] let me ask on #debian-devel [12:48] ajmitch, any idea why this is in the policy ? [12:49] dpkg-buildpackage -B calls binary-arch, I guess that's why we want to make sure it is there, same for -b and binary-indep [12:49] tsk ... [12:49] ogra: azeem knows ;) [12:49] azeem: thanks :) [12:49] yes, thanks azeem :) [12:49] well, that was at most an educated guess [12:49] ogra : added a second path to bug 5288 [12:50] Malone bug #5288: orbit (Ubuntu) - [PATCH] adding a .desktop file to space-orbit In: space-orbit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5288 [12:50] makes half way sense ... [12:50] more educated than my guess would be, though [12:51] ogra : what do you think of it? [12:51] the thing is that dpkg-buildpackage -B wont be called for arch: all packages by pbuilder or the buildd ... [12:51] the #debian-devel people seems to agree with azeem: [12:51] (17:49:33) peterS: minghua: so that a build daemon can build only arch-dependent packages, if it wishes [12:51] historical reasons perhaps [12:51] yup [12:52] and Debian buildds indeed only build arch-dependent packages, I think [12:52] I know that for the hurd, for example, you had to build only the binaries since some of the other build-deps were missing :) [12:52] yes === ajmitch still has an old gnu/hurd install :) [12:52] so they must be calling some sort of -B build command [12:52] ah, .... i'm so spoiled by ubuntu buildds :) [12:52] heh === ajmitch wonders what's stalling moving to launchpad this time [12:53] ubuntu buildds just build everything and throw away things that are already in archive? [12:53] or is there a _all buildd as well? :-P === azeem was just wondering as well [12:54] I'd ask lamont__ [12:54] minghua: easy to look up at your next build log [12:55] i know it works ... [12:57] well we expect the buildds to work :) [12:58] http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/buildlogs.cgi?show=http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/s/student-control-panel/0.1/student-control-panel_0.1_20051115-1858-i386-successful.gz [12:58] ajmitch: do you mean moving to soyuz? [12:58] sistpoty: yes [12:58] thats one without binary-arch [01:00] ajmitch: they found out, that the database from soyuz differed from dak, actually because of bugs in dak (katie?) according to what siretart told me today [01:00] ajmitch: and since the diff is quite huge, they need to eliminate the false positives from soyuz, to be able to check if everything is ok === Fuddl [n=fuddl@2001:6f8:9cf:0:20f:eaff:fe4d:d7b7] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:01] arch:all only packages don't get caught even in Debian anyway, since no buildd would pick it up [01:01] ajmitch: but i guess this info is around three corners and may not be accurate ;) [01:01] yes, I heard that the archive needed to be sorted out [01:01] so more waiting :) [01:01] we both agreed to speed up with merges, before soyuz will hit us *g* [01:01] hehe === ajmitch has about 20-30 merges accepted but not uploaded [01:02] gina is running already running on staging, from what I heared [01:02] hi folks [01:02] so I'd better have a busy merge weekend :) [01:02] hey siretart [01:02] hi siretart [01:02] hey siretart [01:03] siretart: piuparts rocks! [01:03] at least 4-5 should be ready for upload tonight [01:03] hi siretart [01:03] sistpoty: it does [01:04] sistpoty: I'll try hook it into the stage 2 parts of revu2 [01:04] ajmitch: cool :) === ajmitch built a dapper chroot in /home/elma/chroots === ptlo [n=senko@83-131-68-234.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:04] so I have to write some stuff to tar it, update it, etc [01:04] so that a fresh build can have a fresh chroot [01:04] & similar for lintian/linda [01:05] duplicates some of pbuilder :) [01:05] so I'll rip code from there [01:05] gna... that reminds me of s.th.... i guess I won't do ProcessController (that will control stage1/stage2) before tomorrow night [01:05] ajmitch: sounds great :) [01:06] I'll try & reduce duplication as much as possible [01:06] put in a cron job to update the chroots every few hours [01:06] keep 2-3 base tarballs around just for safety ;) [01:06] hehe [01:07] I'd like to have a daily run of installability checks for universe, btw [01:07] we could probably use britney for that [01:07] ajmitch: you mean unmet deps? [01:07] huhu minghua [01:08] sistpoty: yes [01:08] ogra : could you tell me if patch for bug 5288 is alright (so that I can move to an other one) [01:09] Malone bug #5288: orbit (Ubuntu) - [PATCH] adding a .desktop file to space-orbit In: space-orbit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5288 [01:09] ajmitch: please check your updates script into the revu2 svn [01:09] ajmitch: we briefly discussed that today... we could reuse the merge-listing for generic handling of e.g. unmet deps, transitions [01:09] once you have them [01:09] sure [01:09] sistpoty: that's reasonable [01:09] thierry_, looks ok to me, but please do a testbuild in a pbuilder ... [01:10] ogra : k... [01:10] thierry_: usually you need to build and test your package before moving to next one [01:10] we can't really file the bugs straight from that page, due to gpg [01:10] ajmitch : gpg? [01:10] yes, you need it to sign emails [01:10] no, we can't... but lpbugs does that job pretty good... maybe extend that? [01:11] I think so [01:11] \sh is wanting to work on it a bit [01:11] cool :) [01:11] ajmitch : mmm ok, but there's no emails there... [01:11] well, we could install an not that secure key into launchpad. but I don't think we'd need that [01:11] thierry_: yes, filing a bug via email [01:12] ajmitch : why would I do that while we have malone? [01:12] which is what we usually do for merges now [01:12] thierry_: because malone has an email interface? [01:12] and it's convenient to just give a package name to a script, and have an email sent off to file the bug [01:13] thierry_: you don't need to use the email interface (I used not to), but you need to assign the bug to motu-mergers [01:13] thierry_: follow the steps in the wiki [01:14] minghua: he's doing .desktop adding though [01:14] minguha : what page of the wiki? [01:14] ajmitch: or, forgot that, sorry [01:14] thierry_: sorry, never mind [01:15] siretart: I think we could extend lpbugs.py for .desktop files, too :) === kelvin [n=kelvin@dsl-217-155-248-73.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:15] make it more general [01:15] good idea [01:16] eg marking something for review === kelvin [n=kelvin@dsl-217-155-248-73.zen.co.uk] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Leaving"] === icanicant [n=Kelvin@dsl-217-155-248-73.zen.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu === wazza [n=Miranda@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ajmitch searches for a hammer === etcp [i=foobar@home.etcp.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:29] ajmitch ?? [01:30] i guess it's just another approach doing merges *g* [01:30] certain people :) [01:31] ajmitch, you mean certain *single* people i guess [01:31] ogra: yes.. === ogra looks for an axe to lend .... [01:32] hehe [01:32] I should do merges tonight :) === ogra findes the one with "teach CoC" engraved in the shaft [01:33] oops [01:33] lol [01:34] I know... [01:34] but he loves to talk to the empty channel ... === ogra kicks kino === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.38] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jsgotangco [n=jsg@210.111.215.11] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-motu === McFergus [n=frg@85-18-14-13.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:13] Okay, yah, I no like udev. Access the HD takes WAAAY too much power [02:15] Is it smart to turn DMA on on your HDs? [02:16] Kyral: you don't have DMA on on your hard drives? [02:16] Its not on it seems [02:16] I think I should turn it on [02:17] all of mine are on (hard drives and cd/dvd drives) [02:17] Well, operation not permitted?! [02:17] (while sudoing) [02:19] ok bed time [02:19] oh and SATA drives don't have DMA it seems [02:20] gnight raphink [02:20] thanks [02:20] if anyone could review my packages I would love it ;) [02:20] I mean I would really appreciate :) [02:20] hdparm won't turn on.. [02:20] err [02:20] DMA [02:21] raphink: sorry, can't make a promise tonight [02:21] (the ones signed by raphink@raphink.net, and particularly the ones that have already been advocated) [02:21] that's ok sistpoty :) [02:21] bye [02:21] cya === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-motu === seth_k|lappy [n=seth@d-ip-129-15-215-140.wireless.ou.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu === wazza [n=Miranda@auproxy1.proxy.lucent.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bmonty [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:56] what do you guys think are the essential packages to install for packaging? [02:56] debhelper [02:56] devscripts [02:56] Pbuilder :D [02:56] I can think of dev-scripts, build-essential [02:56] maybe CDDB [02:56] piuparts is nice nice to have === sistpoty also recommends lintian, linda [02:57] Kyral: CDDB ? ;p [02:57] err [02:57] cdbs [02:57] :P [02:57] debian-policy is almost a must ;) [02:57] what about dpkg-dev, dh-make, gnupg [02:58] and NOT Checkinstall [02:58] lol [02:58] I think dh-make is in debhelper [02:58] Kyral: I think it is seperate [02:58] no [02:58] separate [02:59] LaserJock, dev-scripts depends on gnupg [02:59] Kyral: ok [02:59] I'd say rip that part out of the NMG [03:00] I'm trying to make a list of both what you need as individual packages and sort of a "here's the apt-get line" listing [03:00] Kyral: yeah, I just wanted to see if the NMG had everything [03:00] http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ch-start.en.html#s-needprogs [03:01] Shoot, dev-scripts pulls in a LOT [03:01] thats why its plural [03:01] sistpoty: hmm, piuparts loooks really cool. Do you use it a lot [03:01] lol point :P [03:02] LaserJock: I haven't known of it since today... but I'm totally convinced for the few hours I use it :) [03:02] sistpoty: yah it does === Kyral installs it [03:03] I'll have to keep track of that. It might be useful in the packaging guide [03:03] Maybe we should make a "dev-tools" metapackage [03:03] *hides* [03:04] Kyral: I think the problem is that there are many ways (tools) to do packaging [03:04] Well the basic ones [03:04] like all the necessary ones [03:04] Kyral: I think probably devscripts is probably that [03:04] Has stuff left out :P [03:04] Kyral: like what? [03:04] all the really basic ones should be in build-essentials [03:04] dh_make === SloMoSnail [n=slomo@p5487FAE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:05] Kyral: do you have to use it to make a package? [03:05] No, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier [03:06] and until ajmitch__ gives his "Packages from SCRATCH" tutorial, it the only way I know how :D [03:06] "How to make a fool of yourself in realtime on IRC!" [03:06] lol [03:07] wow, gnuplot is a Suggests for devscripts? [03:07] sure [03:07] Suggests are never automatically installed [03:07] plot dependency trees [03:07] ajmitch__: ahh, I am used to using for scientific plotting === Kyral goes to try out piuparts [03:09] sistpoty: it does all tests automagically? [03:09] ok, so maybe with exception of the newly found piuparts, it looks like the NMG list is good? [03:09] yah [03:09] Kyral: if it can, it does [03:09] I should use -d dapper :P [03:11] LaserJock: -xutils, -g77, -gpc, +build-essential (my suggestion) [03:11] hmm, there doesn't seem to be a provision to use multiple pbuilder base gzs [03:11] Kyral: you can still specify the base.tgz (-b iirc) [03:11] Aww HELL I hate my school [03:11] ah lol [03:11] sistpoty: ok [03:12] but I still hate my school [03:12] they slapped a bandwidth limit on us [03:12] of 50 kb/s [03:12] Kyral: bummer [03:12] Kyral: ouch [03:12] and everytime I do things with apt [03:12] it takes up my entire limit [03:12] so I start lagging out to IRC [03:13] Kyral: You need to set up something like m0n0wall to do outbound traffic QOS [03:13] or bitch like HELL to my OIT [03:14] Kyral: You can give higher priority to interactive protocols like ftp, irc, ssh, etc while giving lower priorities to apt [03:14] its getting old asking you to knock that off [03:14] you can do that with iptables [03:14] tseng: huh? [03:14] about the damn hell shit whatever you are whinging about [03:14] sorry..... [03:15] is pbuilder debuild supposed to do something worthwhile? [03:16] it seems to install a few packages and kindly return me to my shell [03:16] Just really angers me that I suffer because of other people abusing the net [03:18] is there a way to find out what packages are installed by the install cd? [03:18] base-config? [03:18] ubuntu-desktop? [03:18] I know ssh is in the default install [03:19] I am still shocked that ssh-server isn't installed (even if disabled) by default [03:19] It doesn't make sense to me [03:19] Because most people don't need to be able to SSH into thier boxes ;P [03:19] Kyral: i guess (k)ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-minimal... not sure about that though [03:20] yeah, I would find it weird to ssh out of a machine but not get back in [03:20] Kyral: I am serious [03:20] You find it wierd because you are used to it [03:20] SEJeff: so am I [03:20] If mark wants to push ubuntu as an enterprise os, it needs ssh server by default [03:20] Think about the "typical" windows users [03:20] Can we say manageability [03:20] Thats bs [03:20] I am talking about for corporate deployments [03:21] oh [03:21] I focus on the Desktop side :P [03:21] Why did Mark create ubuntu? for the South African govt === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:21] no [03:21] So in essence, Ubuntu was created to be an enterprise distro from the start [03:21] it takes a few seconds to install openssh-server [03:21] SEJeff: I think having ssh enabled on all the boxes would be a manageablilty nightmare [03:21] I never said by default [03:21] That is stupid [03:22] still [03:22] SEJeff: I don't like the default config of Ubuntu === SEJeff is a 'nix Systems admin for a living [03:22] but I don't complain about it [03:22] I'm not complaining, I just don't see the reasoning behind it [03:22] LCD [03:22] least common denominator [03:22] there are 2 very simple reasons [03:22] Because I know that I can get everything the way I like it within' a half hour [03:23] 1) least possible configuration, so installing a package does all the nessecary setup [03:23] for main stuff esp [03:23] 2) no open ports in -desktop [03:23] wait, LCD was the wrong term [03:23] go with tseng [03:23] when you put 1 and 2 together you get no openssh-server in default install [03:23] The typical windows user has never heard of SSH [03:23] no one cares much about the typical windows user at this point [03:24] tseng: 2 is void. I didn't say to enable it by default. I merely said to install it [03:24] see 1 [03:24] I mean the kind of user trying Ubuntu for the first time [03:24] Kyral: You and I are on totally different levels [03:24] SEJeff: No kiddin' [03:24] SEJeff: 1 tells you that services get started when you install them [03:24] I'm a second year CS Major [03:25] Kyral: And that is great because? I know PHD CS graduates who still suck at any posix operating system === brendan_ [n=brendan@pool-64-222-148-64.man.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:25] if "levels" have something to do with the conversation at hand i am a programmer, dba, and sysadmin for 2 dozen systems [03:25] SEJeff: I'd be glad to take this to PM (I don't want to annoy tseng anymore) === sistpoty is just a stupid student [03:26] I meant levels as far as Ubuntu from a manageability standpoint [03:26] Kyral: you can talk all you want as long as its constructive [03:26] tseng: okay [03:26] I am an admin and I have 2,000 ubuntu desktops [03:26] and no cursing ;P [03:26] cursing is ok too, with moderation [03:26] I configure a local apt repo for "enterprise" updates [03:26] an no caps [03:26] tseng: the only thing that seems odd to me is I have always thought of ssh as a single program, but I'm just a chemist so you can ignore me [03:27] LaserJock: haha :) [03:27] naturally, ssh is the only way to have scripts run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade [03:27] tseng: bloody hell :-) [03:27] SEJeff: You know what *Nix people do when they have to do multiple command line ops over and over again? [03:27] LaserJock: a client and server rolled into one is scary. (there are many different ssh servers, and clients) [03:27] Kyral: It is called shell scripts [03:27] Bingo [03:28] So write one to solve your problem :P [03:28] Kyral: I did that a few minutes after installing ubuntu [03:28] Kickstart is semi-functional [03:28] tseng: ah, makes more sense. But it was weird for me because Ubuntu was the first distro I had to install the ssh server on [03:28] you could make a preseed file that installs openssh [03:28] Maybe I will try to get that working [03:28] and remaster your install cd [03:29] LaserJock: im not sure a debian install even gives you a client [03:29] I'm rather glad that it doesn't come with anything that opens ports [03:29] tseng: or use a pxeboot disk to grab an image off of the network [03:29] SEJeff: indeed :) [03:29] Now thats something VERY cool [03:29] LTSP :D [03:29] netboot install != ltsp [03:29] but they are both cool enough :) [03:30]