[12:16] <Nafallo> mdke: ping
[12:18] <Nafallo> Seveas: ping
[12:18] <Nafallo> jdub: ping
[12:18] <Seveas> Nafallo, ICMP ECHO REPLY
[12:19] <Diablo-D3> lol
[12:19] <Nafallo> hi! do you have a license for the dutch forumtheme ubuntu-se want's to use? :-)
[12:20] <Seveas> Nafallo, hehe, it's a rip-off of ubuntu.com combined with a standard punbb theme
[12:20] <Seveas> I can tar it up for you if you want, but it's not too pretty 
[12:20] <Diablo-D3> lol
[12:20] <Diablo-D3> go Seveas 
[12:21] <Seveas> (You also should disable all other themes, since they sometimes don't integrate well)
[12:21] <Nafallo> infact, I think ozamosi already stolen it ;-)
[12:21] <Seveas> (and the poll crud is a recent addition that is Uber crap css-wise)
[12:21] <Diablo-D3> Hrm.
[12:21] <Seveas> Nafallo, :)
[12:21] <Seveas> URL?
[12:22] <Nafallo> http://ubuntu-se.org/forum IIRC. right ozamosi? :-)
[12:22] <Diablo-D3> not thatI have the money, mind you, but the whole osx experience is.... is....alluring
[12:22] <ozamosi> Nafallo: jupp
[12:22] <Seveas> Nafallo, looks like it, just without the right bar :)
[12:22] <Diablo-D3> a computer... that works perfectly.... out of the box
[12:22] <Diablo-D3> no tweaking, no having to isntall linux
[12:22] <ozamosi> Seveas: I removed it, since I didn't have anything to write in it
[12:23] <Nafallo> hehe, so the work has no license then? :-P
[12:23] <Diablo-D3> so, guys
[12:23] <Diablo-D3> when can I start buying boxen with ubuntu preinstalled?
[12:23] <Seveas> Nafallo, the license for the bits I created is "Do whatever you want and don't blame me when it breaks" :)
[12:24] <unkn0wn2u> why in the hell does linux in all its beauty still persistantly try dns servers in order in /etc/resolve ? if the server on the top is down it takes extra time to try the next one 
[12:24] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: well
[12:24] <Diablo-D3> this is sorta why I like dnsmasq
[12:24] <Diablo-D3> atleast then I can cache results easily
[12:24] <Diablo-D3> but yeah, I agree, it should be randomly
[12:24] <Nafallo> Seveas: that's what I thought ;-)
[12:25] <unkn0wn2u> Diablo-D3, I don't think random   I think whatever one is the fastest 
[12:25] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: but you cant know which one is fastest
[12:25] <unkn0wn2u> Diablo-D3, do a ping and the lowest time
[12:25] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: except that wastes time
[12:26] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: the time it takes to get a ping done, I could have the dns request completed
[12:26] <unkn0wn2u> not if you only do it once when a dns server dies on you
[12:26] <Diablo-D3> I think it should be random
[12:26] <unkn0wn2u> Diablo-D3, what if 2 of 3 are down
[12:27] <Nafallo> Seveas: what do you think about the ubuntu.com parts? jdub as the person to talk to and they love if we use it under whatever copyright? :-P
[12:28] <Seveas> Nafallo, back when I started with the dutch site, I talked to a canonical person, don't remember who, but I got permission to use it
[12:28] <Seveas> at least unofficially
[12:28] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: okay, lets say it randomly hits one, and that one is down...
[12:28] <Nafallo> hmm, oki. should be hno73's work I think?
[12:28] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: then it randomly hits one of the other two.... and that one is down...
[12:28] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: then it just randomly hits the last one. ;)
[12:28] <Seveas> Nafallo, please keep me posted on this :)
[12:29] <Nafallo> Seveas: I will :-)
[12:29] <Seveas> ta
[12:29] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: however, theres a problem
[12:29] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: apps dont keep hitting dns servers
[12:29] <Diablo-D3> when dns times out, they just go on, instead of hitting the other servers
[12:29] <Diablo-D3> which imo is a bug in itself
[12:30] <unkn0wn2u> Diablo-D3, if it was random it could hit the first one twice the second one then the first one again then the final one , if it was random
[12:30] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: theres an implication that dead servers get removed
[12:30] <unkn0wn2u> thats good
[12:30] <unkn0wn2u> that is all i want
[12:30] <Diablo-D3> of course, as I said, apps dont hit the rest of the servers
[12:31] <Diablo-D3> I wish someone would hack glibc's resolver to hit other servers until it resolves
[12:31] <Diablo-D3> I mean, the way dns works is kinda retarded
[12:31] <unkn0wn2u> yep
[12:32] <Diablo-D3> a) we allow multiple ips per a record, but apps dont randomly choose what ip to use
[12:32] <Diablo-D3> b) we allow multiple dns servers to resolve from, but apps dont automatically fall back
[12:33] <Diablo-D3> atleast, if they do fall back, I've never seen useful behavior come out of that
[12:34] <unkn0wn2u> all i know is that my isp's primary dns server crashes all the time and sometimes so does its secondary so I have to edit /etc/resolve.conf to speed things up when one goes down
[12:34] <Diablo-D3> unkn0wn2u: so apps are hitting the 2nd dns server eventually?
[12:34] <unkn0wn2u> yes
[12:34] <Diablo-D3> ignore what I said in b then
[12:34] <unkn0wn2u> just takes a couple of seconds
[12:34] <Diablo-D3> they do fall back
[12:35] <Diablo-D3> but yeah, if this was atleast randomly chosen, it'd a) make load balancing implicit in the design, b) a bit saner
[12:35] <unkn0wn2u> try it for yourself put two fake dns entries into resolv.conf and it takes much more time to get to where you want to go
[12:36] <unkn0wn2u> Diablo-D3, I agree with that
[12:38] <Diablo-D3> I should add a regular running feature on my blog
[12:38] <Diablo-D3> "Diablo's List Of Bad Ideas" or something
[01:23] <mdke> Nafallo, pong
[01:27] <Nafallo> mdke: hi! do your moinmoin wikitheme has a license? :-)
[01:28] <mdke> Nafallo, go ahead and help yourself. except the "ubuntu-it" header of course :D
[01:28] <Nafallo> thanx :-)
[01:28] <Nafallo> public domain or copyleft then :-)
[01:30] <TheMuso> Hi all. I have recently reported a bug, which I now have a fix for. However, the fix involved editing the configure.in of the package the bug was reported against. The package build doesn't generate the configure script every time it gets built, so what should my patch contain, as well as adding build deps, etc?
[01:31] <djk_> doko_: hi, why does the OOo package not include DicOOo and why does it not use the standard OOo buttons?
[01:32] <infinity> TheMuso : If you don't want to completely mess with the package to regenrate configure (which I wouldn't bother with), your patch should include the patch to configure.in, a patch to configure, and a hunk in debian/rules that touches each configure-related file in the right order to make sure they don't get re-genrated on build.
[01:32] <minghua> TheMuso: I'm not an expert on this, but I've seen the general way to deal with this is to re-auto* the package, and provide a patch to configure as well
[01:33] <minghua> infinity: is there any doc on how to get the timestamps right?
[01:33] <infinity> TheMuso : Read /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README.Debian.gz for info on timestamps.
[01:34] <minghua> infinity: ah ok, I've read that file, but I must have missed the timestamp part
[01:34] <infinity> TheMuso : (adjust as appropriate, if the package has more auto* stuff than is mentioned in the timestam pskew example)
[01:35] <infinity> minghua : "The problem with time-stamp skews and Debian source packages:"
[01:35] <TheMuso> infinity: Thank you.
[01:36] <Diablo-D3> hum
[01:36] <Diablo-D3> does anyone have problems with 0.5.5.1-1ubuntu2 starting?
[01:37] <Nafallo> Diablo-D3: we are currently developing 6.04. what's 0.5.5.1?
[01:37] <Diablo-D3> er
[01:37] <Diablo-D3> somewhere in there the word "hal" dissapeared
[01:37] <Nafallo> :-)
[01:38] <Nafallo> I don't think so, but I haven't checked it either :-)
[01:39] <Diablo-D3> it stops hal, it stops udev, it starts udev, and it just stops at trying to start hal
[01:39] <TheMuso> infinity: What approach should I take if the package uses cdbs?
[01:39] <infinity> TheMuso : Cry.
[01:39] <minghua> infinity: thanks, and reading.  I use dpatch though, and I've not seen such time-stamp skew yet, I wonder if you know dpatch is immuned?
[01:40] <infinity> TheMuso : Some double-colon target (like "clean::" maybe?) would likely be the right place to put it with cdbs.
[01:40] <infinity> minghua : Nothing is immune, but you could be patching in such a way as to make yourself immune by accident. :)
[01:40] <Diablo-D3> lol
[01:40] <Diablo-D3> it catches itself
[01:40] <infinity> minghua : ie: if you always patch .in before configure, etc.
[01:40] <Diablo-D3>  * Starting Hardware abstraction layer:                                         
[01:41] <Diablo-D3> a minute later
[01:41] <TheMuso> infinity: Thanks again. Will see how I go.
[01:41] <Diablo-D3> run-parts: /etc/dbus-1/event.d/20hal exited with return code 2
[01:41] <Diablo-D3> invoke-rc.d: initscript dbus, action "force-reload" failed.
[01:41] <Diablo-D3>  * Starting Hardware abstraction layer:
[01:41] <minghua> infinity: :-(  I'll read that doc carefully again, and fix my packages
[01:42] <infinity> minghua : Do you ever get failures on slower arches (m68k, arm, mipsel) that you can't really explain? :)
[01:42] <infinity> minghua : They are far more likely to smack into timestamp skew issues (though I see it in the Ubuntu DC buildds too)
[01:43] <minghua> infinity: no, not yet, even though I put both patches of Makefile.am and Makefile.in in one .dpatch file
[01:43] <infinity> minghua : Could be pure luck with the order of the patch file. :)
[01:43] <infinity> minghua : Err, wait.  You're not patching configure directly, though?
[01:44] <infinity> minghua : If you're re-running autogen.sh (or whatever) in your build, then you're immune by definition.
[01:44] <minghua> infinity: no, not configure.  Just Makefile.* stuff
[01:44] <minghua> infinity: but no, not re-bootstrapping either
[01:45] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[01:45] <infinity> minghua : Oh, okay.  Check.
[01:45] <Diablo-D3> I wish realtime-lsm came with the kernel by default
[01:45] <infinity> minghua : Then yeah, .am should be patched/touched before .in, unless you're in AM_MAINTAINER_MODE, then it won't even try to re-generate.
[01:45] <minghua> infinity: as you said, maybe just pure luck.  better not depend on luck too much, I suppose :-)
[01:46] <Diablo-D3> anyone wanna comment on that?
[01:54] <mdke> mjg59, awesome usplash
[01:55] <mjg59> mdke: Haha
[01:55] <mdke> you own design?
[01:56] <mdke> r
[01:56] <mdke> mm kernel works too
[01:56] <mdke> rocking
[02:01] <wasabi> Slashdot: (#14175758)
[02:01] <wasabi> I'm deeply suspicious of a so-called "educational" distribution put together by people who can't seem to spell "calendar" correctly [edubuntu.org] .
[02:01] <wasabi> Somebody might want to fix that. ;)
[02:02] <tseng> you know in the netiquite rfc it has an item about not posting soley to make fun of someones spelling mistake
[02:02] <tseng> it was a pretty key item
[02:03] <wasabi> I'm just pasting a /. posting that happened, despite it's sarcasm, point out a legitimate spelling mistake.
[02:03] <Diablo-D3> I still get a kick out of the ubuntu dapper ksplash
[02:03] <wasabi> I should have paraphrased I suspose.
[02:03] <Diablo-D3> er usplash
[02:04] <Diablo-D3> 2.6.15-6 seems to boot fine, btw
[02:06] <theCore> guys, what do you recommend for installing packages ? aptitude or apt-get ?
[02:06] <wasabi> Try both, you decide.
[02:07] <theCore> wasabi: it for the PackagingGuide
[02:07] <theCore> i want to know what we should recommend to the readers
[02:08] <infinity> From the name, I'd assume "PackagingGuide" is aimed at people who are building software?
[02:08] <LaserJock> infinity: correct
[02:08] <infinity> If so, you should assume they know how to install software. :)
[02:08] <infinity> "Install build-essential" is fine, you don't need "apt-get install build-essential"
[02:08] <minghua> good point :-)
[02:09] <infinity> They can use apt, aptitude, dselect, synaptic, or download the debs by hand if they want.
[02:09] <LaserJock> but it is more than buil-essential that we are recommending
[02:09] <infinity> LaserJock : Doesn't matter.  The point is that you should recommend packages to install, not HOW to install them.
[02:09] <mdke> +1
[02:09] <infinity> If your target audience is so far down the learning curve that they don't know how to install software, they're not ready to be building it yet, and should be reading an entirely differnt set of docs.
[02:10] <theCore> infinity: good point
[02:10] <LaserJock> infinity: true I just wanted to have a one liner because we list lots of packages but you don't necessary have to install all of them because of deps, etc.
[02:10] <mdke> yeah they can start reading something else
[02:10] <wasabi> I probably wouldn't recommend a packager to install anything except build-essential, though. Seems to me the best package results from packagers tracing down the dependencies for the piece of software when they're needed.
[02:10] <minghua> LaserJock: what about "install foo, bar, baz and their dependencies"?
[02:11] <LaserJock> but maybe the solution is to do as infinity suggests and just take that out 
[02:11] <LaserJock> minghua: right 
[02:12] <LaserJock> wasabi: well, we are going to use examples so we need to at least put the programs that are going to be used in the examples
[02:12] <theCore> LaserJock, maybe but having the whole command near is convenient
[02:12] <infinity> And yeah, recommending that people install much more than build-essential and devsctips is just asking for trouble down the road with missing build-deps.
[02:12] <minghua> LaserJock: then you should use apt-get build-deps
[02:12] <infinity> devscripts, too.
[02:13] <wasabi> Btw, I think it's awesome that you're writing this.
[02:13] <LaserJock> right, here is the list as of now : build-essential dh-make automake pbuilder gnupg lintian dchroot debian-policy debian-reference
[02:13] <wasabi> When I was learning packaging, there wasn't any good resource other than the debian dev/policy and existing packages. ;)
[02:14] <infinity> theCore / LaserJock : If this is including walktrhgoh examples, I guess this is meant as a replacement for Debian New Maintainer's Guide?
[02:14] <LaserJock> infinity: sort of
[02:14] <LaserJock> infinity: maybe a little easier
[02:15] <LaserJock> infinity: put not everybody does I guess
[02:15] <LaserJock> s/put/but/
[02:16] <minghua> If you are remaking/improving NM guide, would you please de-emphasis the dh_make approach and add more details about hand-crafting the debian/rules?
[02:16] <minghua> dh_make really generates bad debian/rules except for the most basic package
[02:17] <infinity> I'm of two minds about that.
[02:17] <LaserJock> minghua: yeah, I hope to get a lot out of #ubuntu-motu-school
[02:17] <infinity> dh_make is a good place to start to see what is available to you, via debhelper, etc.
[02:17] <infinity> If you're doing complex packaging, one assumes you've already done some basic packaging and know what tricks you can dna can't pull.
[02:18] <infinity> And that's certainly out of the scope of a beginner's guide to packaging.
[02:18] <minghua> infinity: very ture
[02:18] <minghua> s/ture/true/
[02:18] <LaserJock> well I wanted to have different packaging scenarios that would illustrate when it is appropriate to use things like dh_make and cdbs etc.
[02:18] <infinity> (I wouldn't expect a beginner to come up with the crazy debian/rules2 in gcc, for instance)
[02:19] <minghua> infinity: I had always been hoping there would be an "Advanced Maintainers' Guide" :-)
[02:19] <infinity> I suppose someone could write one, but Make is pretty flexible if you mangle it just right, so an "Advanced Maintainer's Guide" could be a single line saying "do whatever you have to do to make it work, HTH, HAND"
[02:20] <minghua> the reality is that most currently (interesting) non-packaged software are more than "basic"
[02:20] <LaserJock> minghua: well this could include more advanced topics eventually
[02:21] <theCore> LaserJock: that would make a great guide
[02:21] <infinity> Yeah, but if you run through and example of ground-up packaging of "Hello World", then go look at the source for complex packages, you can make the logical leaps from "simple" to "complex" yourself.  Probably.
[02:24] <minghua> Is this PackagingGuide online somewhere right now?
[02:25] <LaserJock> doc.ubuntu.com
[02:25] <theCore> yes, http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[02:25] <minghua> thanks, both of you
[02:28] <minghua> Hmm, where should I report typos for this packaging guide?  #ubuntu-doc?
[02:28] <LaserJock> minghua: 
[02:28] <LaserJock> yeah
[02:33] <crimsun> elmo: please sync omniorb4 from Sid (overriding Ubuntu changes), thanks
[04:28] <pepsi> is the replacement of hotplug by the new udev package intentional? im hesitant to allow hotplug to be removed
[04:31] <minghua> pepsi: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-December/000028.html
[04:31] <pepsi> i see
[04:32] <pepsi> i should probably subscribe to that, eh?
[04:32] <minghua> pepsi: and you should subscribe to that list if you uses dapper
[04:32] <minghua> exactly :-)
[04:43] <pepsi> yay.. that was exactly what i was looking for.. now i dont have to get yelled at for asking about dapper in #ubuntu ;)
[04:45] <minghua> oh?  people yell at you for asking questions about dapper on #ubuntu?
[04:45] <minghua> that's unfortunate
[04:45] <pepsi> well
[04:46] <pepsi> usually something like "DONT USE DAPPER" or somesuch ;)
[04:46] <minghua> well, that's more or less true, though
[04:47] <pepsi> and i understand that having people asking for help with an unfinished release only adds to the overwhelming number of questions asked
[04:48] <pepsi> but its silly to just tell people already using it to not use it ;)
[04:49] <minghua> pepsi: yes.  if you don't intend to help testing, I think you should wait until the preview release
[04:49] <pepsi> perhaps if the mailing lists were pointed out.. i just assumed they were more about "hey billl... theres a bug in x-package.. could you chceck it out?"
[04:50] <pepsi> i spent a few hours figuring out why gnome-app-install kept crashing :P
[04:50] <pepsi> tis firefox's fault
[04:50] <pepsi> but i tracked it to the exact function
[04:53] <pepsi> but then i never filed a bug report :D
[05:23] <poningru> I had a question, why do we not use the driver binaries that the manufacturer gives us permission to distribute? in restricted ofcourse
[05:52] <infinity> poningru : For example?... We do use some (nvidia and ati come to mind)
[05:53] <infinity> poningru : s/use/ship/, we don't install them by default (because we can't really support them)
[05:54] <poningru> right
[05:54] <poningru> for example the wireless drivers
[05:55] <infinity> Like the atheros drivers we ship?
[05:55] <poningru> there was some rumors that couple of chipset devs would allow drivers to be shipped
[05:55] <poningru> but arent those open?
[05:55] <infinity> Not precisely, no.
[05:55] <poningru> oh
[05:56] <infinity> The ath_hal portion of them is very not open, and that's why its in restricted.
[05:56] <poningru> hmm ic
[05:56] <infinity> Are there actually drivers we COULD distribute that we a) don't have a working alternative for and b) aren't distributing?
[05:57] <infinity> And if you're going to suggest distributing the Win32 drivers for use with ndiswrapper, no, we don't have a license to do that, rumours notwithstanding.
[05:57] <poningru> ah gotcha
[05:57] <infinity> "Manufacturers would look the other way and pretend not to notice" isn't the same as "we can legally distribute them".
[05:58] <poningru> so if we were to 'lobby' the manufacturer to allow redistribution...
[05:58] <poningru> we == customers
[05:59] <infinity> If customers managed to lobby manufacturers to allow (in writing) redistribution of certain drivers known to work with ndiswrapper, there'd be no difference between us distributing that and us distributing closed firmware and ath_hal, IMO.
[05:59] <infinity> That doesn't mean we WOULD, but there's be a better chance of talking us into it.
[05:59] <poningru> but there is something that I found in the (b) category btw
[06:00] <poningru> http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Downloads
[06:00] <poningru> http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/rt2400
[06:00] <poningru> err
[06:00] <poningru> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/rt2400/rt2500-1.1.0-b3.tar.gz?download
[06:01] <infinity> We have the rt2x00 drivers in our default kernel builds.
[06:01] <poningru> oh we do?
[06:02] <poningru> hmm guess I better take this to the user support channel then
[06:02] <poningru> cause mine isnt working
[06:02] <infinity> $ modinfo rt2400
[06:02] <poningru> and lots of people's arent working
[06:02] <dilinger> noooooooooo
[06:02] <dilinger> dilinger@sticky:~$ gtetrinet
[06:02] <dilinger> *** glibc detected *** double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x080de710 ***
[06:02] <poningru> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Rt2500WirelessCardsHowTo
[06:02] <Lathiat> haha dilinger 
[06:03] <poningru> oh hmm ok it does exist
[06:03] <infinity> poningru : The very top of that wiki page notes that Breezy supports rt2x00 out of the box.
[06:04] <poningru> ok thanks this was mistake on my part
[06:04] <poningru> sorry about that
[06:04] <poningru> wasting your time and all
[06:04] <infinity> poningru : If "lsmod | grep rt2" doesn't show it having a driver loaded for your card, your problem is in udev (in dapper) or hotplug (in breezy)
[06:05] <poningru> no the driver is loaded its just not connecting
[06:05] <infinity> poningru : If the right driver IS loaded, but you have no interface, or the interface doesn't work, file a bug on the kernel.
[06:05] <poningru> its most likely something I did wrong
[06:05] <poningru> but I will file a bug if its something wrong with the interface
[06:06] <poningru> once again thanks dude
[06:09] <pepsi> what is bazaar?
[06:10] <poningru> https://launchpad.net/products/bazaar
[06:11] <pepsi> ok
[06:11] <poningru> basically cvs but with more upstream/downstream controls and more friendliness in general
[06:11] <poningru> well I guess the second portion is debatable for some people
[06:13] <pepsi> but its a version control thang
[06:13] <pepsi> its what ubuntu uses i guess
[07:39] <Diablo-D3> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:DES4INMGPQINDVOUGOQPQP4QWZXJXDCW
[07:39] <Diablo-D3> oops wrong window
[07:40] <Diablo-D3> thats a music torrent if anyone cares, btw
[08:49] <zakame> hello
[08:49] <zakame> is daniels around?
[08:50] <infinity> Nope.
[08:50] <zakame> waah... I'd just like to ask if gccmakedep's really gone in dapper
[08:50] <zakame> as MAS seems to need it (from xutils) to build
[08:51] <infinity> Why does it need it?... Can you replicate the behaviour with "gcc -M"/
[08:51] <infinity> ?
[08:52] <zakame> I just did that, but I wasn't sure if that's the way to go, so I was asking :)
[08:52] <zakame> I asked earlier at -motu, siretart was unsure too
[08:53] <zakame> with DEPEND="gcc -M" MAS built ok :)
[08:55] <zakame> thanks :)
[10:45] <jsgotangco> hey guys
[11:56] <zyga> morning
[01:28] <djk_> doko: hi, why does the OOo package not include DicOOo and why does it not use the standard OOo buttons?
[02:42] <\sh> elmo: please sync pgadmin3 from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes
[02:42] <\sh> elmo: thx
[02:51] <mjg59> jdub: I'd already got in touch with them
[03:08] <zyga> \sh: hi do you have ro accecss to archive.ubuntu.com?
[03:09] <\sh> zyga: via web? yes
[03:09] <zyga> \sh: fast?
[03:09] <\sh> zyga: yes
[03:10] <zyga> \sh: is there any way you could mount it for unix tools to work?
[03:10] <zyga> \sh: I need to run three scripts on all the debs
[03:11] <\sh> zyga: hmmm? ro access i have via http..i don't have any direct access...this is elmo who has the power to do everything 
[03:11] <zyga> ah, ok
[03:11] <zyga> elmo: :)
[03:19] <poningru> can someone update this page please?
[03:19] <poningru> why not link it to the new faq?
[03:19] <poningru> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/faqfolder_view
[03:33] <pkern> zyga: Isn't it possible with fuse anyhow?
[03:33] <pkern> zyga: But perhaps this requires WebDAV for the listing, don't know.
[03:37] <\sh> pkern: hi..any news about gobby 0.3.x?
[03:38] <pkern> \sh: We've got a weird encoding bug to fix before we could release Gobby 0.3.0... Sadly enough. |:
[03:38] <pkern> \sh: That's the only thing left, but it doesn't happen with Linux<->Linux but with other combinations.
[03:38] <pkern> \sh: I can't build debs earlier because 0.3.0rc3 > 0.3.0 if you ask dpkg ;)
[03:39] <pkern> \sh: Lame excuse, I know that it would be possible anyway. ;)
[03:39] <\sh> pkern: no problem :) ogra is just waiting for it for edubuntu :)
[03:40] <pkern> \sh: Deadline? ;)
[03:40] <siretart> yesterday *fg*
[03:40] <\sh> pkern: 19th jan
[03:40] <pkern> \sh: Easy enough. :P
[03:41] <\sh> well..I have to say, yesterday at the essener linuxtage a lot of people were interested in edubuntu. the workshop was quite fillled up with people...and during ogras talk many people were listening...so there is a market for edubuntu :)
[03:42] <pkern> \sh: Guess what I am running on the desktop. ;)
[03:42] <pkern> \sh: Edubuntu rocks and the artwork is cool, too. :P
[03:42] <\sh> pkern: gerntoo? ,-)
[03:43] <pkern> \sh: Edubuntu (: I am so tired of Gentoo... Forget to update for a month and you're screwed.
[03:43] <\sh> pkern: hehe..I know what you mean...
[03:44] <\sh> but I heard just now, that suddenly 100 ubuntu cds reached the gentoo booth in essen :)
[03:45] <pkern> As long the 100 ubuntu cds don't reach the Debian booth... *fg*
[03:45] <pkern> I'm still distributing all those Ubuntu Breezy copies besides me among our teachers.
[03:46] <pkern> It's just that the German translation on the Live CD isn't that great. At least the buttons in the panel remain untranslated.
[03:46] <\sh> pkern: hmm...I just bought a debian shirt...it's x-mas time :)
[03:46] <pkern> \sh: I bought one in Karlsruhe some months ago. :P
[03:46] <pkern> \sh: But well, I am associated anyway. ;)
[03:47] <\sh> pkern: *g* ] 
[03:47] <pkern> If Ubuntu (as in Linux) wouldn't screw my laptop's harddisk drive I would use it more... But like this I stick to enhance the DarwinPorts in OpenDarwin a bit... *cough*
[03:49] <\sh> hmmm...bugzille no.?
[03:49] <\sh> :)
[03:50] <pkern> \sh: It doesn't really matter where I would file it...
[03:51] <pkern> \sh: Paul van Tilburg's blog is down at the moment. ):
[03:52] <pkern> \sh: So I can't link you to the problem
[03:52] <pkern> \sh: Last time I filed a bugzilla bug I never saw a solution... And I wasn't able to finger it out, too. (xfs as root)
[03:52] <\sh> pkern: next time then :)
[03:53] <djk_> when's the best time to talk to doko?
[03:53] <\sh> djk_: when he is at work? so between monday and friday :)
[03:54] <\sh> or email him :)
[03:54] <pkern> Anyone using RSS reading in Thunderbird? ;)
[03:57] <\sh> i don't use thunderbird at all
[03:58] <pkern> I just try to convert myself to it... But the RSS reader seems stupid.
[03:58] <pkern> Time for a RSS to mail interface
[03:58] <\sh> pkern: there is one
[03:59] <djk_> \sh: well, yes, i meant in here ;)
[03:59] <\sh> pkern: http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/rss2email/
[04:00] <pkern> Surely it was packaged by Joey... ha
[04:00] <pkern> Thanks (:
[04:05] <sivang> pkern: this is surely somethign related to some specific combination of hardware
[04:05] <pkern> sivang: Well, it parks the HD heads several times per minute.
[04:05] <sivang> pkern: ah,. well I was use experiencing data loss, I am not sure if it was due to parking heads
[04:07] <pkern> sivang: The harddisk gets too many of those and then refuses to read sectors.
[04:07] <pkern> sivang: I had two replaces already.
[04:08] <zyga> pkern: I could just rsync but that's 50GB away :)
[04:09] <pkern> zyga: Isn't there a development machine with a mirror of it available?
[04:09] <pkern> Like merkel in Debian ;)
[04:09] <zyga> pkern: not for me 
[04:09] <pkern> k
[05:21] <ogra> hey stockholm 
[05:21] <stockholm> ogra: hi!
[05:21] <stockholm> ogra: how are things?
[05:22] <stockholm> ogra: are you aware of the schoolserver meeting in nrnberg?
[05:22] <ogra> fine :)
[05:22] <ogra> when ? 
[05:22] <stockholm> dec 17
[05:22] <ogra> hmm, nope, wasnt aware ...
[05:22] <ogra> but i met your colleagues yesterday at linuxtag in essen
[05:22] <stockholm> i am not sure how one gets invited.
[05:23] <stockholm> who was that?
[05:23] <stockholm> the skolelinux gang?
[05:23] <ogra> they invited me to your test center in guetersloh
[05:23] <stockholm> i never saw them in action
[05:23] <ogra> oh, lots of people hving a booth there ...
[05:23] <stockholm> that is their standard move. they invite everyone (c:
[05:23] <ogra> hehe
[05:23] <\sh> in guetersloh?
[05:23] <ogra> i'll visit if i have time ...
[05:24] <stockholm> cool.
[05:24] <stockholm> there is a meeting in januar, too
[05:24] <stockholm> near aachen
[05:24] <stockholm> when is mark online normaly?
[05:24] <\sh> next to the evil place of the bertelsmann cd printing company? ,)
[05:24] <ogra> i'm very busy until end of feb ... but aachen mightbe possible (only 80km)
[05:24] <stockholm> i want to know how hard it is (and rewarding) to live in southafrica (c:
[05:25] <stockholm> \sh: i dont know about that. what was the deal with that?
[05:25] <pkern> \sh: CTCP LOCATION
[05:25] <Kamion> stockholm: UK working hours would be a better bet than Sunday :-) However he's been travelling a fair bit, so if I were you I'd try e-mail
[05:25] <stockholm> ogra: why are you so busy?
[05:25] <ogra> stockholm, finishing the next edubuntu before feture freeze ;)
[05:25] <\sh> stockholm: well..I worked in guetersloh...for mr. mohn junior :) next to sonopress :)
[05:25] <ogra> *feature
[05:26] <stockholm> Kamion: do you think he would have time to answer *those* kind of questions in email? (c:
[05:26] <\sh> pkern: hehe :)
[05:26] <Kamion> stockholm: no idea
[05:26] <pkern> \sh: That's not a valid response ;)
[05:26] <stockholm> ogra: ah, i understand.
[05:26] <\sh> pkern: kerpen :) rhein-erft, NRW :)
[05:26] <pkern> \sh: NRW! kk (:
[05:26] <stockholm> ogra: then you might be too busy for the nrnberg meeting, too.
[05:27] <pkern> \sh: So you're having snow up there? ;)
[05:27] <ogra> likely ...
[05:27] <ogra> hey pkern 
[05:27] <\sh> pkern: next to michael schumachers cart racing 
[05:27] <ogra> nice to see you here :)
[05:27] <pkern> Hey ogra (:
[05:27] <stockholm> arg, i am needed downstairs
[05:27] <\sh> pkern: well...to be honest, i didn't have a look out of my window for today..but I don't think so
[05:27] <stockholm> see you around.
[05:27] <Kamion>  Source and binary demotions to universe
[05:27] <Kamion>  ---------------------------------------
[05:27] <Kamion>  o readline4: libreadline4
[05:27] <Kamion> SCORE
[05:27] <ogra> heh
[05:27] <pkern> ogra: I heard Jan 19th as a deadline...
[05:27] <ogra> thats upstream version freeze
[05:28] <pkern> ogra: Fine.
[05:28] <\sh> ogra: latest date for including gobby :)
[05:28] <ogra> getting all new features into ltsp is my main work currently ...
[05:28] <ogra> so feature freeze is more important to me :)
[05:28] <\sh> ogra: grr...I wanted to push pkern a bit :)
[05:28] <pkern> ogra: When is feature freeze? (:
[05:29] <ogra> end of feb ...
[05:29] <pkern> Fine.
[05:29] <Kamion> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[05:29] <pkern> ogra: And please keep up the good work. I even use Edubuntu as my favourite desktop distribution (=
[05:29] <ogra> YAY !!!!
[05:29] <ogra> thast cool to hear :)
[05:30] <pkern> ogra: And it's not only the artwork... ;)
[05:30] <ogra> heh, thanks ...
[05:30] <ogra> there is a lot of controversal discussion about the artwork ...
[05:31] <pkern> Hehe.
[05:31] <ogra> if all goes fine we'll get gobby in the default install next release ;) (but i bet you read your blog comments)
[05:32] <\sh> pkern: to answer your question..no snow but a lot of rain...rifood
[05:32] <zyga> hi guys
[05:32] <zyga> any python module for easy handling of short binary messages?
[05:33] <pkern> ogra: Sure I did.
[05:33] <\sh> and please never type a sentence when the pizza cab is coming
[05:33] <pkern> ogra: It's just one weird bug left before we could release 0.3.0.
[05:33] <zyga> things with methods like push/pop_bigendian/littleendian_8/16/32
[05:33] <ogra> pkern, great, i guess you'll solve it before jan 19th ;)
[05:33] <pkern> ogra: A big showstopper concerning encodings and special characters. ):
[05:33] <pkern> ogra: Yep.
[05:34] <pkern> ogra: Well, there are the winter holidays in between!
[05:34] <ogra> heh, yes
[05:34] <pkern> ogra: Perhaps we get Gobby 0.4.0 with TLS encryption done by that date... *cough&
[05:34] <ogra> 0.3.0 would suffice for me, but 0.4.0 would be cooler indeed ...
[05:35] <pkern> Because the GNOME people complained about that when they discussed the inclusion into GNOME. They won't do it, though. Rather by obby plugins into other applications than by including Gobby itself.
[05:35] <\sh> pkern: only because of a missing tls feature?
[05:35] <pkern> \sh: Nope.
[05:35] <pkern> \sh: Because two editors are bad, etc.
[05:36] <pkern> \sh: gedit and gobby... doesn't look like "integration"
[05:36] <\sh> pkern: hmm..but I don't see any collaborative editing functions in gedit
[05:36] <pkern> TLS is a low-level problem anyway (net6), so possible plugins would also receive it.
[05:37] <pkern> \sh: Yes. We looked at it when we started Gobby, but the plugin architecture didn't seem advanced enough for the task. It was easier to reinvent the wheel. |:
[05:37] <pkern> \sh: I'm still not glad about the problem, that we need to implement every single editor feature which is not covered by GtkSourceView.
[05:38] <ogra> how about a libGtkEdit ?
[05:39] <\sh> pkern: well...kde...this is...kde...really a ...kde... problem ... kde 
[05:39] <pkern> ogra: Probably more features should be added to GtkSourceView instead ;)
[05:39] <pkern> \sh: Did you say anything about...kde...? ;)
[05:39] <ogra> or that :)
[05:40] <\sh> pkern: I? never...where ...kde...did you see...kde...kde?
[05:40] <\sh> hehe
[05:40] <pkern> \sh" Heh
[05:41] <\sh> pkern: serious...I would be cool to see gobby even as kobby
[05:41] <\sh> s/I/It/
[05:41] <ogra> \sh, port it ;)
[05:42] <\sh> ogra: I would...but I need some "gnome main uploads" you remember?
[05:42] <pkern> We first considered Qt because it's portable to OSX, but there was no free Windows port at that time and the lead developer didn't like the naming conventions. (: (And apart of that it lacked a serious editor widget.)
[05:42] <ogra> yup :=)
[05:42] <pkern> A question: Should one register products or projects in Launchpad?
[05:42] <ogra> products 
[05:42] <\sh> pkern: what is wrong with kates ?
[05:43] <pkern> \sh: There's MateEdit, a collab editor?
[05:43] <\sh> pkern: or qscintilla?
[05:43] <\sh> pkern: yes..but not compatible to gobby...
[05:43] <\sh> I think
[05:43] <pkern> I registered net6, obby and gobby as products, but that was wrong I think. At one time in Launchpad (I can't really remember) I was asked to specify a project instead.
[05:43] <ogra> hmm
[05:43] <pkern> As those projects are really developed outside of Ubuntu. 
[05:44] <ogra> #launchpad could tell i gess
[05:44] <pkern> \sh: I did try qscintilla... It was a mess.
[05:44] <pkern> k
[05:44] <pkern> \sh: It needs to emit correct signals for insertion and deletions... and it was... quite... unusable.
[05:45] <\sh> pkern: hmm...but what about improving QTextEdit then
[05:45] <pkern> \sh: Others are invited to do that. That's why obby is a library (=
[05:46] <\sh> pkern: pythonbindings to obby?
[05:47] <pkern> Python would be reasonably easy, other languages not because there aren't yet any C bindings.
[06:33] <Kamion> s'pose I should do a few seed merges too
[06:50] <Vebzku> Hi
[06:50] <Vebzku> Can someone help?
[06:51] <Kamion> Vebzku: it's normally more effective to ask the question first - people have different kinds of expertise
[06:51] <Vebzku> ^^ok
[06:52] <Vebzku> umm..weit a sec. i'm bad english
[06:55] <Vebzku> umm...when i try do internet accres whit DHCP its do some error
[06:55] <Vebzku> and when i'm in ubuntu. i can be 15min and then X cursor come and my Screen go black.
[06:56] <Kamion> ok, sorry, this isn't a support channel (even if #ubuntu couldn't answer - but if you haven't tried there, try #ubuntu first)
[06:57] <Vebzku> ok
[06:57] <Vebzku> sory
[06:57] <Kamion> failing that, try ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com, or, if you prefer, the forums or a launchpad.net support request
[07:13] <ogra> hey sabdfl 
[07:16] <ogra> sabdfl, had a edubuntu workshop and talk yesterday, lots of interest :) http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/d/3448-2/P1000213.JPG , http://photos.shermann.blogweb.de/main.php/d/3451-2/P1000214.JPG ...
[07:16] <sabdfl> hiya
[07:16] <sabdfl> nice, ogra!
[07:16] <sabdfl> am snowboarding with mdz in colorado
[07:17] <ogra> cool, enjy the wather :) visiting lamont ?
[07:17] <ogra> *enjo
[07:17] <ogra> grr
[07:17] <ogra> enjoy indeed
[07:17] <sabdfl> ogra: sort of :-)
[08:02] <slomo> BenC: the bcm43xx driver is now "usable"... you can scan, assign channel/essid and transfer data ;)
[08:05] <zyga> guys, how do I do unsigned math in python?
[08:05] <zyga> I need to minick 32bit C code
[08:05] <zyga> s/minick/mimick/
[08:17] <siretart> elmo: please sync ldaptor from unstable, overriding ubuntu changes
[10:24] <firefly2442> anyone know if there will be an update for the gam_server 100% CPU issue?
[11:46] <kbrooks> Hey
[11:47] <kbrooks> i have a big compliant trhat should be addressed immediately
[11:47] <kbrooks> zsnes: (Emulator of the Super Nintendo Entertainment System (TM)), section multiverse/otherosfs, is optional. Version: 1.400-1ubuntu1 (breezy), Packaged size: 504 kB, Installed size: 3212 kB
[11:47] <kbrooks> This should be moved to universe and also updated
[11:48] <kbrooks> to 1.4.2
[11:48] <kbrooks> zsnes is licensed under the GNU GPL
[11:48] <kbrooks> i checked
[11:49] <ajmitch> and.. why should this be done immediately?
[11:56] <mantiena> doko, hi are you near the computer ? I have few question about OpenOffice.org plans in Ubuntu