| === jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-ports | ||
| === shinmen [n=shinmen@nat1.inalambrica.net] has joined #ubuntu-ports | ||
| fabbione | jbailey: did you try to boot your sparc again or did you declare it dead? | 03:08 |
|---|---|---|
| jbailey | fabbione: I can boot it fine. It just doesn't live through a gdb build. | 03:08 |
| jbailey | And it hung on the loopback self-test. | 03:08 |
| jbailey | fabbione: It's still sitting here plugged in, though. | 03:08 |
| fabbione | hmmm | 03:09 |
| fabbione | weird | 03:09 |
| jbailey | I had managed to get an oops out of it once, but not when the serial console was plugged into it. | 03:09 |
| fabbione | did you plug a net cable in it? | 03:09 |
| jbailey | Yes. | 03:09 |
| jbailey | Well | 03:09 |
| jbailey | Into one of the three nics. | 03:09 |
| fabbione | did you try to unplug it? | 03:09 |
| fabbione | i wonder if the network card is hunging the test | 03:10 |
| jbailey | No. | 03:10 |
| jbailey | I was thinking of trying to find an old stable release (like woody) and putting it on, and doing builds. | 03:10 |
| jbailey | Just to make sure. | 03:10 |
| jbailey | But I won't have time for that soon. | 03:10 |
| jbailey | I'm still worried that it could be just a gcc-4 issue or something. | 03:10 |
| fabbione | hold on | 03:11 |
| jbailey | I don't know how many other people are actively testing current dapper kernels. =) | 03:11 |
| fabbione | halt | 03:11 |
| fabbione | does it hang the boot or the hw? | 03:11 |
| jbailey | EPARSE | 03:11 |
| fabbione | i understood that the hw was broken | 03:11 |
| jbailey | Which it? | 03:11 |
| fabbione | dunno.. it sounded that way | 03:11 |
| jbailey | The machine boots fine. | 03:11 |
| fabbione | well you can still reinstall breezy and debug stuff :) | 03:11 |
| fabbione | just stay with breezy kernel ;) | 03:11 |
| jbailey | Installing breezy on this was such a pain in the arse. *sigh* | 03:12 |
| === jbailey tries to backrev. | ||
| fabbione | well dude | 03:12 |
| fabbione | it was a pain true | 03:12 |
| fabbione | now you admit to have a netcable in it | 03:13 |
| fabbione | so you can netinstall it | 03:13 |
| fabbione | and do it clean :) | 03:13 |
| jbailey | I'm not setup for netinstall. | 03:13 |
| jbailey | That's why I was testing CD installs for you. | 03:13 |
| jbailey | I don't have a separate network, and shutting up the dhcp server is too much work. | 03:13 |
| jbailey | That's why I Was thinking Woody. | 03:14 |
| fabbione | you do have a laptop. don't you? | 03:14 |
| jbailey | Yes. | 03:14 |
| jbailey | No crossover cable atm. | 03:14 |
| jbailey | I gave it back to infinity. =) | 03:14 |
| fabbione | ok.. and 3 nics in the sparc? | 03:14 |
| fabbione | ah ok | 03:14 |
| fabbione | hell dude.. you should have told me | 03:14 |
| fabbione | i have tons of crossovers and hubs | 03:14 |
| === fabbione sighs | ||
| fabbione | ok listen.. deal.. buy a cross over or an extra hub.. i will pay it ;) | 03:15 |
| jbailey | Did Sparc participate in flight-1, btw? | 03:15 |
| fabbione | nope | 03:15 |
| fabbione | too busy building at that time | 03:15 |
| fabbione | i might get flight 2 assuming oo2 builds | 03:16 |
| fabbione | i got all of main builded | 03:16 |
| jbailey | Is 2.6.12-9 a good test, or do I need to go older? | 03:16 |
| fabbione | 2.6.12-9 is the kernel that we used for release | 03:17 |
| fabbione | it's ok, why? | 03:17 |
| jbailey | I'll try just setting that to the default boot. | 03:17 |
| fabbione | ah ok | 03:17 |
| fabbione | sure that should work if udev is not 100% nuts | 03:17 |
| jbailey | udev won't run on that kernel. | 03:18 |
| jbailey | It'll just refuse to start. | 03:18 |
| jbailey | I've just fired up a gdb build on the old kernel, we'll see how she does. | 03:27 |
| fabbione | cool | 03:28 |
| fabbione | remind me.. why did you need gdb 64 bit? | 03:29 |
| jbailey | I think case, to debug sparc64 tls. =) | 03:30 |
| jbailey | s/think/this/ | 03:30 |
| jbailey | s/I/In/ | 03:30 |
| fabbione | no need to | 03:30 |
| === jbailey needs to turn up the heat in here, fingers are stiff. | ||
| fabbione | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=341514 | 03:30 |
| jbailey | I don't need to debug it? | 03:30 |
| fabbione | tls works fine on 64bit assuming you backport all the patches from David Miller | 03:30 |
| fabbione | that Debian did not | 03:30 |
| fabbione | we did the right thing disabling it | 03:31 |
| jbailey | Dude, what do you think I'm doing? | 03:31 |
| jbailey | I'm in the middle of backporting all of them, and I get a segfault. | 03:31 |
| fabbione | *cough* | 03:31 |
| fabbione | ok | 03:31 |
| jbailey | So now I'm debugging it before I upload it as a working version. =) | 03:31 |
| fabbione | david said also that tls makes sense on 32bit | 03:31 |
| fabbione | not on 64 | 03:31 |
| fabbione | it's there almost only for accademic reasons | 03:32 |
| jbailey | Umm, that's not sensical. | 03:32 |
| fabbione | at least that's my understanding of what he said to me a couple of days ago | 03:32 |
| jbailey | NPTL requires TLS support. | 03:32 |
| jbailey | So if the goal is to eliminate the old LinuxThreads library, I need it working. | 03:32 |
| fabbione | fabbione i don't think we will push that for dapper | 03:32 |
| fabbione | davem right, sparc64 libc doesn't need to be TLS | 03:32 |
| fabbione | davem it's nice that 32-bit can be | 03:32 |
| fabbione | ok i can ask him for the patch than | 03:33 |
| jbailey | He won't have it. | 03:33 |
| jbailey | He did the work against current upstream. | 03:33 |
| jbailey | You'll be asking him to do the same work that I've mostly done. | 03:33 |
| fabbione | i didn't connect the 2 things till now | 03:33 |
| fabbione | right.. | 03:34 |
| jbailey | But we need gdb to work for all the arch combos we can run anyway. | 03:34 |
| fabbione | well i am sorry.. i got to it too late | 03:34 |
| jbailey | So I'm getting biarch to work for sparc/sparc64 and ppc/ppc64. | 03:34 |
| fabbione | otherwise i would have asked him :/ | 03:34 |
| jbailey | Well, but we can't expect Dave to carry the sparc port for us entirely. | 03:36 |
| fabbione | no no no | 03:36 |
| fabbione | i understand that | 03:36 |
| fabbione | but given he wrote most of that code | 03:36 |
| fabbione | for him doing a backport is much less expensive than for us | 03:37 |
| jbailey | Not much so, though. | 03:37 |
| fabbione | specially given he does use debian and ubuntu | 03:37 |
| fabbione | he cares about it | 03:37 |
| jbailey | Gettnig all the code was reasonably quick. | 03:37 |
| jbailey | DEbugging it ought to be once I have a debugger. =) | 03:37 |
| jbailey | My biggest limitation is waiting 12 hours for a build iteration. =) | 03:37 |
| jbailey | glibc 2.3 and 2.4 changed how their TLS stuff is done. | 03:38 |
| === fabbione eyes the choccolate cake in the kitchen and plans a pickup mission | ||
| jbailey | So I ported all of the stuff to 2.3's style. | 03:38 |
| fabbione | ah i see | 03:38 |
| jbailey | I'm guess I've just missed an initialisation somewhere. | 03:38 |
| fabbione | evi | 03:39 |
| fabbione | l | 03:39 |
| jbailey | Right. | 03:39 |
| jbailey | Because it'll be in a chunk of asm. | 03:39 |
| fabbione | can we split glibc? ;) | 03:39 |
| jbailey | That's where he'd be able to go faster than I. | 03:39 |
| jbailey | He can read the asm at full speed. | 03:39 |
| fabbione | in a lot of tiny small readable sources? | 03:39 |
| jbailey | But getting to this point is much harder. | 03:39 |
| jbailey | It *is* small tiny readable sources. =) | 03:39 |
| jbailey | That's half the problem. | 03:39 |
| jbailey | In which frigging source file is the problem? =) | 03:39 |
| fabbione | eh | 03:39 |
| fabbione | exactly | 03:40 |
| jbailey | But gdb will tell me what part of the initialisation is segfaulting. | 03:40 |
| fabbione | right | 03:40 |
| jbailey | Then I'll do the trace against a modern glibc compile and track both backwards. | 03:40 |
| fabbione | you make me hot when you talk to me so dirty! | 03:41 |
| jbailey | *lol* | 03:41 |
| fabbione | ok time for a break | 03:41 |
| jbailey | fabbione: It might be worth asking Znarl if he can handle it - he's been really quick on things. | 03:42 |
| === lamont__ [n=lamont@mib.fc.hp.com] has joined #ubuntu-ports | ||
| === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-ports | ||
| BenC | lamont: did you see what I said wrt elilo? | 05:50 |
| lamont__ | BenC: did not. | 05:51 |
| BenC | scroll back in ubuntu-kernel | 05:52 |
| lamont__ | BenC: doh | 05:53 |
| lamont__ | thanks | 05:53 |
| lamont__ | and awaiting your reply there | 05:53 |
| jbailey | fabbione: I notice that the gdb testsuite includes a number of thread failures on sparc. I wonder how many of these are related to them making assumptions about debugging linuxthreads. | 05:58 |
| jbailey | fabbione: I should check the source to see what its assuming. | 05:58 |
| jbailey | gdb build finished on sparc. | 06:29 |
| jbailey | So that hardware could still be broken, but not exercised by 2.6.12, or 2.6.15 could be broken. | 06:30 |
| jbailey | No opinion offered. =) | 06:30 |
| BenC | none given either :) | 06:33 |
| BenC | I have no idea | 06:33 |
| BenC | it's an odd lockup | 06:33 |
| jbailey | BenC: Maybe when there's less snow, I can give you my patch to gdb and you can try building it? | 06:33 |
| jbailey | I don't know that it hangs the machine if I don't try a biarch gdb build. | 06:34 |
| BenC | if you can put it somewhere I can download it, I can do a build | 06:34 |
| jbailey | Sure. I was more thinking that you don't want to have to go out there if it crashes. =) | 06:36 |
| jbailey | It's a 3 line patch to debian/rules. Lemme put the .dsc/.diff.gz up somewhere. | 06:37 |
| BenC | it's ok, I can just flip the breaker for the whole barn from in the house, and reboot all the machines :) | 06:39 |
| jbailey | You have the whole thing on one circuit out there? | 06:39 |
| jbailey | Tell me it's a subpanel circuit. =) | 06:39 |
| jbailey | And not a 15amp. = | 06:39 |
| jbailey | ) | 06:39 |
| jbailey | BenC: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/sparc/ | 06:45 |
| BenC | yeah, it's a 100Amp breaker to a subpanel | 06:55 |
| === BenC curses direcway | ||
| BenC | might be a bit before I can do that gdb build | 06:56 |
| BenC | Fair Access Policy just kicked in because I was downloading edubuntu iso | 06:57 |
| jbailey | Fair Access Policy? | 06:57 |
| BenC | pay $120/month for business grade access, three times the cost of cable, and they didn't tell me about this FAP bullshit | 06:57 |
| jbailey | Hmm. Direcway. Isn't that DirecTv's Internet service? | 06:58 |
| BenC | yeah, if you consume high b/w over an extended period, they b/w limit you for awhile | 06:58 |
| BenC | yeah, I can't get normal broadband here | 06:58 |
| jbailey | Just funny. I helped review some of the design specs for it. | 06:58 |
| jbailey | I wonder how different the design from back then was to what they have now. | 06:59 |
| jbailey | It was 1994. =) | 06:59 |
| BenC | other than FAP and the 400ms latency, it's not too bad | 06:59 |
| BenC | it's way different | 06:59 |
| BenC | I have high-power xmit, for .5mbs upload speed | 06:59 |
| jbailey | Ah, yeah. The original design didn't include any up. It was telephone connect for up. | 07:00 |
| BenC | you can't stand in front of my dish, else you risk eltromagnetic health hazards :) | 07:00 |
| BenC | first time I had it, they just started the 56kps upload to avoid the phone line | 07:00 |
| jbailey | But it was going to be basically 38,4k up, 100 megs down. =) | 07:00 |
| BenC | they've been building up business class service for high-power upload | 07:00 |
| BenC | shit, they don't sell 100mbs down, highest is 2mbs I believe | 07:01 |
| BenC | I max out at 300kbytes/sec | 07:01 |
| BenC | generally it's 200kbytes/sec | 07:01 |
| BenC | under FAP, I get 12kbytes/sec | 07:01 |
| jbailey | Hmm. I wonder how much of that is just a limit on how fast you can ack packets. | 07:01 |
| jbailey | *ouch* | 07:01 |
| BenC | I think most of it has to do with dish size, the higher d/l rate you get, the larger the dish gets | 07:02 |
| jbailey | Yeah. I just looked in awe at the specs that actually mentioned how the birds and dishes worked. | 07:02 |
| jbailey | Totally no clue on that side. | 07:03 |
| BenC | the xmit is configurable via the DW7000 modem/router, so they can bump that from the NOC | 07:03 |
| BenC | I think I'm at 2 watts on xmit | 07:03 |
| BenC | wish there was a way to bump that power without it telling the NOC :) | 07:04 |
| jbailey | So the day beore thanksgiving they up the power and roast you a turkey in flight? =) | 07:04 |
| BenC | lol | 07:04 |
| BenC | I actually thought these new DW7000's were supposed to be linux OS on the inside | 07:05 |
| BenC | Hughes had a Linux black-box beta test a few years ago | 07:05 |
| BenC | but they are VxWorks (I can telnet to it) | 07:05 |
| jbailey | It's interesting seeing Linux lose out a bit to VxWorks. | 07:06 |
| jbailey | I don't follow embedded that closely, but it seems to be turning up more and more. | 07:06 |
| BenC | probably had to do with real-time stuff | 07:07 |
| jbailey | ALso that an embedded more Linux kernel with all the size options turned on is still 700k uncompressed. | 07:07 |
| jbailey | (2.6.14) | 07:07 |
| BenC | might have been something with the GPL too | 07:08 |
| BenC | all the press that Linksys got about WRT54G's being hacked up probably scared them | 07:08 |
| === BenC has two linksys wrt's with hacked firmware to bump the xmit power | ||
| jbailey | Yeah. | 07:09 |
| jbailey | It would be sad to see Linux bumped out of the embedded market. | 07:09 |
| jbailey | So many fun applications waiting for us. =) | 07:09 |
| BenC | yeah, I love doing embedded work | 07:09 |
| BenC | so much freedom | 07:10 |
| === jbailey wanders out to buy groceries for lunch. =) | ||
| BenC | of course the only embedded system I ever did, I wrote the OS from scratch (multitasking, preemptive OS, with TCP/IP stack, video decode, and gigabit ethernet driver, in 512k RAM) | 07:10 |
| BenC | linux wouldn't be able to do that | 07:10 |
| jbailey | BenC: Anything you want me to do on this sparc box befor eI wander off? | 07:11 |
| jbailey | 512k, sweet. | 07:11 |
| BenC | nah, I'll get gdb compiling to see if I can reproduce | 07:11 |
| jbailey | Cool. If you can't, I can try running test kernels or something that just spits out log information more often or something. | 07:13 |
| jbailey | I've got a serial console wired up to it now, so if there's anything that can be got usefully from that, lemme know. | 07:13 |
| fabbione | jbailey: ok | 08:09 |
| jbailey | EUNMATCHED: ok | 08:12 |
| jbailey | fabbione: Was that to the gdb thread failures comment? | 08:12 |
| fabbione | jbailey: yes | 08:13 |
| fabbione | (catching up on the backlog) | 08:13 |
| jbailey | Yeah, it was just far enough back I didn't remember what I'd said to you. =) | 08:13 |
| fabbione | no suriprise :) | 08:14 |
| jbailey | Hmm. | 09:24 |
| jbailey | BenC: Might still be my sparc hardware. | 09:24 |
| jbailey | BenC: It died while sitting idle. | 09:24 |
| jbailey | on 2.6.12-9 | 09:24 |
| BenC | ah, sadly, I'm happy about that :) | 09:25 |
| === jbailey pouts at BenC =) | ||
| jbailey | lamont, lamont__ : Any word on libc6-i386 for ia64 yet? | 10:00 |
| === lamont__ wanders over to ask | ||
| jbailey | lamont__: Thanks. =) | 11:21 |
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